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The State of the Bookish Community with @Haleys.house | S4Ep8
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This week we chat with Haley from the Gilmore to Say podcast about the highs and lows of the bookish community. We discuss everything from booktok drama to whatever the hell is happening on Threads. Follow Haley!
Follow us on instagram @BringYourOwnPod
Follow Brandi @Brandos.Books
Follow Kendra @Kendra.Readz
Follow Kayla @Kaylas.Bookshelf
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Transcript
Introduction of Guest and Podcast Success
00:00:14
Speaker
Kayla, and today we have a very special guest with us, a friend of the podcast. We've mentioned her several times. Hailey, she's one half of Gilmore to say a podcast discussing all things Gilmore Girls, where they take you beyond the episode recaps, not just episode recaps. That's very important.
Book Club and Author Interviews
00:00:32
Speaker
ah You can find Gilmore to say regularly sitting at the top spots on Spotify and Apple for their TV and film categories, which is so cool. She also hosts a book club for the podcast called Gilmore to Read, where she regularly interviews authors, some of which include Christina Lauren, B.K. Borisin. And my personal favorite episode was the Adrian Young episode. That one was so fun. So welcome, Hailey. We're so excited to have you.
00:00:57
Speaker
I'm so excited to be here. I've been wanting to be here for so long because I listen to the podcast like weekly. So this is this is an honor. I'm excited. Oh my
Collaborative Episode Discussion
00:01:06
Speaker
gosh. We're so excited. and And we do have to mention that we're kind of like doing a little collab. So we also did and recorded an episode with Hailey on her book club about Part of Your World by Abby Jimenez, which you guys know is one of our faves. So be sure to check that episode when it comes out. We're so excited.
00:01:23
Speaker
Yeah, it'll come out but later in October or mid-October. I'm not sure when this episode is coming out, but we had a great time. Yeah, it was a lot of fun. A lot of yapping. A lot of yapping. That's a long episode. Yeah, Haley told us that she actually loves when we yap so much. And you guys know Kayla is the yacht police, so she has been demoted. Oh, wow. Can I be like the reverse yacht police today? Like if you start winding down, I'm like, no, no, no. You're just going to yap, yap, yap.
00:01:49
Speaker
Kayla's like,
Current Reads and Bookish Chatter
00:01:50
Speaker
fuck. like But before we jump into our conversations, we're going to kind of today be talking about the state of the bookish community, ah just as four friends who are very deeply ingrained in the bookish community. But before we do that,
00:02:05
Speaker
What are we reading? What are we drinking? Hailey, do you want to go first? Yeah. Oh my gosh. I've been wanting to tell you what I've been reading and drinking, so desperately. I'll start with my drink. I am drinking a hot coffee that I spilled all over my chair downstairs before I came upstairs. It's about half full now, so that's fun. I'm also drinking a water because you got to stay hydrated.
00:02:30
Speaker
And in terms of reading, I'm reading um Finale by Stephanie Garber. I read Legendary last year, so I am having a little bit of a hard time getting back into it because I don't remember much of what was happening at the time, so I might have to pause and go backwards. But I'm also reading, I'm doing the tandem reread of Tower of Dawn and Empire of Storms on audio right now.
00:02:51
Speaker
and I'm really enjoying it, but like Hot Take, I think I'm liking Tower of Dawn more than Empire of Storms right now. Tower of Dawn. That's not a Hot Take on this podcast. Really? Yeah, I think that's one of the best books. S.J. was at her best when she's writing a mystery. If there's no mystery, she's kind of like, oh. It's so good. And I think it's also because Empire of Storms is just like, bing, bing, boom, every single chapter or something dramatic is happening. But I just kind of like to get cozy in bed and Irene, my favorite. 100%.
00:03:20
Speaker
having a great time.
Book Recommendations and Preferences
00:03:23
Speaker
I love that. So you're reading Finale. Have you read the Once Upon a Broken Heart series? I don't remember. No, ah that's why I'm reading it that because I want to read it. And I heard that you have to read the Care of All series before you do that one.
00:03:34
Speaker
I didn't. You know what I did? I actually went on to the Wikipedia, like the wi wiki fandom for Caravel and I read everything that happens with Jax in that series. So I didn't have to read Caravel because I didn't want to. It's good. I like it. Okay. I just like heard mixed reviews on it. So I was like, I don't know if I want to do that. I just really want to read this one because everybody said that it's way better. So that's what I did. Is it way better?
00:04:00
Speaker
I mean, i I can't say because I'd never read Cara ball. But I mean, I enjoyed the series. No. Yeah. I only want to kind of have no desire. Yeah. I know they don't. So I never tried. I never tried. Have y'all read Fantasma?
00:04:14
Speaker
No, the Danny Phantom fanfic. Oh, I got that one in the mail recently. I do want to read it. That one was fun. Wait, that was for real. I saw his face floating around. I was like, what the fuck are people talking about? Well, it was like the concept, yeah, was that she loved Danny Phantom, and she wanted to. And so it's like Gothic New Orleans, same thing, where a sister decides in her own bullish and going off, and the older sister feels like she has to go save her, and she has to go to this kind of like Caravel-esque competition where they go through different levels of hell. And she's guided by Danny Phantom, who has a different name, but... Who has a different name, but it's Danny, right? Yeah, but it's Danny. I'm kind of over the competition.
00:04:58
Speaker
Yeah, i I feel like this one, the competition feels less important than what else is going on around it. So I really enjoyed it. I also feel like it was more... I really like Stephanie Garber's writing. I think it's really beautiful, but I think that this plot felt a lot more thoroughly fleshed out than Cara Wall did. Because even at the end of Cara Wall, she said she didn't know how it was going to end at the beginning. And this one feels like you knew. If she didn't know how this was going to end at the beginning,
00:05:23
Speaker
Like kudos to her for developing that along the way. yeah I am currently drinking an ice caramel latte. Classic. And I am probably going to finish First Time Caller by BK Bullison today. yeah I'm pretty close to the end. I'm really enjoying it.
00:05:44
Speaker
And then I'm really excited that I'm going to be starting Promise Me Sunshine right after. So I'm pumped because Kendra and Lomi, two people that I trust with my life when it comes to book recs, both are saying that this book is incredible. So I'm really, really excited. I also just finished a graphic novel called Pumpkinheads by Rainbow Rowell, which was me completing her backlist. So I'm A little emotional about that because I'm sad because anytime I didn't know what to read, I was like, oh, I'll just read a book from her backlist. And so I'm all caught up. So I can't do that anymore. And then I am listening also to from a Kendra wreck to a guarding temptation by Talia Hibbert. We made like a cutie little like a pod wreck off post on our Instagram where each of us like had a category that we had to pick a book. And this was Kendra's novella wreck and it was on hoopla. So I was like, yay.
00:06:37
Speaker
nice yeah Yeah, it's pretty solid novella. It's like straight to the point and it's hot. so Yeah. And I picked a Talia Hibbert novella too. So I know that Talia Hibbert writes great novellas, like fully flush out. Sometimes I finish a novella and I'm like, I wanted more. was Is that the point? Like I've always struggled with that. Like should I end a novella wanting more or should I be content with what little we got because it's a novella? um So I know Talia Hibbert can leave me with that feeling, being like, I'm content. This is their story. I'm happy.
00:07:05
Speaker
Yeah. What about you? I am. I am. Okay. Well, obviously I have a water and it's 10 30 where I am. So I was like, Oh, no cook zero ring. No cook zero. I already had my chai. So I was like, what can I bring today? But I have, uh, I don't know if it's too early for this. I have a sparkling apple cider. Is it too early for that? I have no idea. Okay. I don't know. It's not a fall. Okay. Is it like in any time of day drink? i feel yeah So yeah I have a sparkling apple cider today.
00:07:33
Speaker
It's very good. It's from Aldi and that sounds got me I love me some Aldi. And I am currently listening to One on One by Jamie Hara, which is a, I hesitate to call it a basketball romance because neither one of them is an athlete, but they both work for a basketball team. So a college basketball team. So it's, it's not a college romance though, but it's really good so far. It's narrated by Kyla Garcia. ah Thank you. PRH audio so much for the audio book. We love you.
00:08:01
Speaker
Jessica Joyce recently recommended that one on the podcast. I know that was part of the reason I read it is because she's recommended it and we had a couple other like friends that I know that have really loved this one. So I'm reading that one right now. I'm like 40% ish through and then I'm not currently eyeball reading anything yet. I just haven't had the urge honestly to read anything with my eyeballs in like a week. um But I think I have so many arcs on my Kindle that I really need to get through my net galley ratio is not it's not suffering it's still above 80% but I'm like always scared that it's like gonna go below or something but I'll unexpectedly get approved for an arc and then I will like have to
00:08:43
Speaker
like immediately read something. My my ratio is at 88%. I'm fine. I'm just like scared all the time. But I think I'm gonna try our Infinite Fates by Laura Steven, which I've heard if you like divine rivals, then you would like this book. o So I think did you try that one? Did you get a arc of a sea of unspoken things?
00:09:03
Speaker
No, not yet. I'm still sitting and pending. you We got to get you one. I know. I'm working on it. I'm working on
Friendships in the Book Community
00:09:11
Speaker
it. It's good. It's shorter. It's a lot different than her other ones. A lot. That's so dramatic for me to say. It is not a lot different. It's shorter. It's only 277 pages. Oh, wow. Yeah. OK. Well, i emailed I did email. And so we'll see if they Like me enough, but that's currently that's currently what I'm what I'm reading and drinking you guys cool I am drinking an iced coffee this morning, and I don't know why I did that cuz I'm gonna have to poop no love be honest Yeah, I like feel it um we can and then reading wise yeah
00:09:50
Speaker
I am doing a Himmlock House by Katie Kotagno on audio. Thank you PRH Audio. And it's the follow up to her book Liars Beach, which I just did via Libby. Short to the point. It's like a fun teen mystery. And these are rereads for you, right? No. i had Oh, okay. these are
Hailey's Journey to Podcasting
00:10:08
Speaker
These are the only two books of hers that I hadn't read yet. They're her latest young adult releases. So then once I do Himlock House, I'll be caught up with her entire backlist, which like, it's just a fun feeling. You're like, okay, like you're done. um I love Katie. I think she's severely underrated. And I am with my eyeballs rereading Promise Me Sunshine by Cara Bassone, which does not come out until ah March or April of next year, but it is so good. It's, I love it.
00:10:34
Speaker
Yeah, I couldn't let them go. um And I'm not gonna say I'm just gonna leave it with that. Um, but I think that they're being very generous with arcs on net galley dial presses with this book, I have yet to see a single person get denied. So if you want to read it, I, I don't think it'll hurt if you just apply for it. um And then I also just got an ARC that I am so jazzed for. I got swept away by Beth O'Leary. And ah that is her release for next year. And the way that she's talked about this book, I'm like, oh fuck, like this is going to be so good. like She just seems really passionate about it. And like she's talked about like the work that she had to put into it. And she just had a baby. And like I don't know. um
00:11:13
Speaker
I'm excited to do that. So it's so pretty. Yeah. Hey, do you know what it's about? No, I've only I tried to read her. What is it? The no show. I thought that it was a magical realism book. um So I went into it. Not really understanding. I kept waiting for the magic to happen. I think I think it was brandy. I think I message you and you're like, yeah, there's no magic. no So I like know my read of that and like have since tried to forget everything. So I do want to try again. you need to audio Not do the audio. The audio is incredible. It's going to be magic yeah yeah magic. Also, her latest release, The Wake Up Call, is really good. It's so cute. We talked about it. That that is just like a solid romance book. like There's more going on than just the romance, but the romance is so cute and sweet. The plot is so fun. like i yeah It's a holiday book, too. Oh, really? Oh, fun. What's talked away about, though?
00:12:07
Speaker
ah Yeah, Swataway is about ah this girl who hooks up with a guy or like these two people they hook up on a boat, but then the boat gets pushed out to sea and it was meant to be a one night stand. So now they're stuck with each other on this boat in the middle of the ocean.
00:12:22
Speaker
And I'm like, that's like, how do you come up with that? That's so so cool. Yeah. So I'm very excited. But Hilary is great. I think you would like the no show again and then do the wake up call because it's just, she's a good writer. Really good. Yeah. The no show feels like a Hailey book to me. Like, okay. Yeah.
00:12:39
Speaker
andly the back again I literally was just waiting for like the magic to happen, like that for like there to reveal that like someone was doing something and there was a magical grandma or something. I think I got like halfway through. Did someone have a grandma?
00:12:56
Speaker
Yes. Well, his mom. It was Joseph. Yeah. Oh, his mom. Yeah. I was so convinced that she was like a witch or something. And and then, yeah, someone was like, I have no magic in this book. And I was like, oh, okay, let's put this down for a little while. Forget everything. And I hope for the best in the second round. but So like we mentioned at the top of the episode, our topic today is
Balancing Podcast and Book Club
00:13:23
Speaker
on the bookish community. We have a couple hot takes guys, we need to have a discussion about the bookish community. But before we get into that, we did want to ask Hailey a couple questions as our guest today. So first Hailey, we just wanted to ask you, how long have you been a part of the of the book community and what's your favorite part about being a part of it?
00:13:44
Speaker
Oh, okay. So like we talked about on our episode of Gilmore to read, I was first like lurking in the book community and like messaging people from my personal account before I actually got started. And one of the people that I had been messaging with was like, just start a book account like just see what happens even if you don't keep up with it because at that point like the podcast had already started and I had like five social media accounts to keep up with and I was like let's add another I suppose um and I'm so glad that I did I think that was in 2020
00:14:17
Speaker
to like May 2022. My first post was about alone with you in the ether the indie published version so it was like way back way back when but I you know just posted just to see I don't post a lot but I'm so glad that I made a specifically bookish account because I feel like you can make bookish friends in a way that you're not from your personal account. And it's not that like bookish accounts won't follow your personal account, but it's more of like, it feels like kind of like this easy entry point into friendship of like, my account is all about books.
Connections Through Book Accounts
00:14:54
Speaker
Your account is all about books. Let's just talk about books. And it's like such a easy way to just slide into someone's DMs because you yeah randomly both ended up as mutuals and you're like, Hey, you're reading that book. It also made me feel tons of things. Let's chat about it via voice memos, even though we've never actually talked before.
00:15:11
Speaker
And I think that's my favorite thing is just making friends from it. And I know, again, we did talk about this on your episode, but I was the exact same way, but I didn't realize that you had started your account the same month and year that I started mine. Oh, really? Yeah. in May 2022. So that's so cool. I love that. I know. Hailey, do you only have a bookstagram or are you also on like?
00:15:33
Speaker
TikTok and Twitter, like ever else talking about books or is this like the only place? So not on Twitter, never been on Twitter. I think I was back in like college, but like that was a long time ago. But I was on Book Talk for a second. It was like Book Talk and Swift Talk. I don't know how to log back into that account. It has like 22,000 followers, no idea how to get into it. So I did start a new ah Book Talk. It has two posts.
00:15:58
Speaker
umli But I also have a booktube, so I've been ok yeah more on there. I'm still new to it, but I am posting a lot on there. But i don't um yeah I don't keep up with anything else outside of Bookstagram. Because I will say, I am in the bookish community, but I don't feel like I'm in the bookish community like proper. I feel like I'm on like the edge of it. I dip my toe in, but I can very easily pop back out right quick. I think that's the best way to be.
00:16:25
Speaker
Yeah, my opinion. Yeah. And I think it's so cool that you have like so much other stuff that like often overlaps with the bookish community that you do, you know, like your whole podcast and um the book club, which we'll talk about more in just a little bit, but like the fact that you have that overlap, so you can jump into these conversations and then be able to be like, hu ah, that was light right back out. Yeah. Like we talk about all the time that we've gotten what we need out of our bookscrams. Like obviously we still post on there and we love it and it's still so fun, but we have like made the friendships.
Origins of Gilmore to Say
00:16:58
Speaker
We have like this community that we can, you know, text and talk about books and stuff because sometimes it does get really overwhelming.
00:17:06
Speaker
being honest in those spaces for an extended period of time. yeah So obviously we've been talking about Gilmore to say and the book club. Can you talk a little bit about how you and Tara started the podcast? What like drew you guys to start it? And then how did you start the book club within the podcast?
00:17:26
Speaker
Yeah, so Tara and I actually met on TikTok. We had both been working on Broadway ah before the pandemic. Hailey, what the fuck? I didn't know that. Yeah, I was before I um moved back home. So like in the late 2010s, I was an associate producer on Broadway.
00:17:44
Speaker
And i ah was yeah I was working for a Broadway producer. um I will say, controversially, it was the worst experience of my life. I hated it so much. I cried every single day at work. i would Literally, my life revolved around getting enough sleep so that I could like not have a mental breakdown at work. um But I had a bathroom that like because there would we like worked in a residential building and like the doorman there They had a little special bathroom for themselves that they let me go into where I would cry every day. um And hated it. But I literally was like talking to my parents. I was like, I'm going to quit my job. like It was February 2020. I was like, I just ah can't do this anymore. And then the world shut down. And I was like, did I manifest that?
00:18:29
Speaker
It's your fault. It's my fault that that happened because I hated my job so much but then I moved back home and just you know out of depression was watching Gilmore Girls a bunch and was on TikTok a lot just lurking and so I just started talking about Gilmore Girls on there um because I saw an opening of the way that people were talking about it in a way that I could do it differently and Um, and we, you know, I gained a following on there. Um, and people kept tagging Tara and I and each other's, she followed me when I had like 75 followers, which is funny to think about now, cause I have like a hundred thousand followers on there now. Um, but yeah, we just like started talking and it was like that, like mutual entry point of like, you are a person cause she posts about going back to work on Broadway. And I was like, Hey.
00:19:16
Speaker
do we have something more in common? Should we be friends? So we started DMing.
Podcast Launch Challenges
00:19:20
Speaker
And in the same way that, Brandy, you mentioned in our episode that you messaged them asking to start a podcast, we have an infamous text that Tara just mess DM on Instagram and was like, are we missing an opportunity by not starting a podcast?
00:19:34
Speaker
And I was kind of thinking the same thing, but neither of us knew how to do it. Literally googled, how do you start a podcast shortly after? Oh, same. Exactly. Yeah. How do you upload it to Spotify? It was hard. And did it yield any results? Practically none, which is actually why we want to start a mini podcast consulting business for girly pops who want an easy access into Rather than Googling, we will actually bring you the answers that you need. um But we first started a horrible podcast, like truly so bad. We tried to do scripted. we It was capital B bad. We have ah the first two episodes of it on our Patreon. if
00:20:16
Speaker
anyone ever wants to go absolutely make fun of two girls trying to do something. um But then we like kind of ghosted each other for a second. And then I sent another text that was like, we're going to do this podcast, it's going to be this, this is going to be the name, it's going to be Gilmore to say, this is going to be the branding, this is going to be the imagery, this is what I want you to create for the album artwork. And she was like, great. So in January 2022, Tara forced me to press publish on our first episode because I was so nervous about it. It didn't post because we didn't understand that you
Growth and Evolution of Podcast
00:20:47
Speaker
couldn't post a WAV file. You have to post an MP3 to post it online.
00:20:52
Speaker
And then we've just kind of like grown since then. we have ah We were so adamant to not do a rewatch podcast. We wanted to be different. And then we started a rewatch podcast on Patreon, naturally. um And Tara kept being like, we should start a book club, because which is funny because Tara doesn't read. She doesn't read books. We'll come in every once in a while. with um well We're reading for October. We're doing the third.
00:21:14
Speaker
Gilmore Girl for our book club and she's gonna read that one but she's not a reader but she was like we should start a book club and I was like you mean I should start a book club um and I knew it was going to be a big undertaking because We already at the time, like were we had so much that we were doing. It was just the two of us before we got our editor. But it's really hard to like independently produce a podcast and have as much content and episodes as we do. um So I waited about a year into the podcast or like a year and a half before I felt comfortable like bringing a product to people that I could keep up with.
00:21:52
Speaker
and that I would enjoy um because it's hard. It's hard to run a book club. It's hard to like make something that you love to do as a hobby into part of your job because then you just like kind of become resentful of reading sometimes because you're just like So I try to book pick books that I really really love or books that I haven't read that I'm really excited to read um because then I'll be more excited to chat with people. um It's kind of evolved because at first we started on an app but now it's on our Patreon and we chat weekly. I try to write little like
00:22:24
Speaker
book reports weekly for everyone to kind of get my thoughts. But then every month um we have the author come on and I interview them about Gilmore Girls, which at this point, every single author we've reached out to, I'm like, it's not a requirement to like Gilmore Girls, but we can talk about pop culture, anything that you like. And every single time they're like, no, I love Gilmore Girls. I'm so obsessed. That's so funny. Like you mentioned that Adrienne Young was your favorite episode. She was actually on like a media blackout, wasn't doing any interviews, anything at all.
Interviewing Authors and Fanbase
00:22:53
Speaker
And the only reason that her publicist sent it to her was because Adrienne Young is the biggest fan of Gilmore Girls of all time. And she falls asleep every night watching it. like Everyone who knows her knows this about her. And so that was the only reason she did it is because it was a Gilmore Girls podcast.
00:23:08
Speaker
So there that the crossover, is like the Venn diagram is almost a circle there. um But it's been a lot of fun because like I've gotten to meet so many authors that I love and like part of my job now has become just like trying not to fangirl over books that I love with authors who have become really, like they're just so gracious and fun to talk to. you And like I mentioned to them that like I'm writing a book and every single time they're like, yeah, if you need any help, let me know. I'm like, so serious, but yeah actually cry. Um, but yeah, so that's kind of the, um, the book club and the podcast background. I love that. Who's been your like one of your favorite, or you can, you could say multiple authors to interview.
00:23:51
Speaker
Oh, that's hard. Well, Tia Williams was my first one, and I felt like that was like such a good swing like to come out of the gate with. like um Am I mixing metaphors there? Probably. A gate seems open. You're good. yeah um course what you But I was like, when I got like the confirmation from her that because I just like email, like, it's not hard to reach out to authors, they, they have like their contact on their websites, it's whether or not they respond is really the thing. yeah um But she responded personally was like, I love Gilmore Girls, let's book this and like CC to her publicist and I was like,
Hot Takes on Book Community
00:24:30
Speaker
what?
00:24:30
Speaker
I kind of, I kind of sent it as like a little bit of a joke. Yeah. I was like, haha, this now I have to do this. I was so nervous. Like, like my whole body was tense the whole time. And when I listened back to it, I can like hear it. But I just like that one. I was really proud of just because I like I did it. But I did love Adrian Young because she didn't tell me she was a Gilmore Girls fan until the middle of the episode. And I was just shook, too stunned to speak.
00:24:57
Speaker
um Oh, I'm trying to think of who else. An episode that has not been published yet, which actually is my favorite, was Rebecca Ross. um Because her we recorded our episode right as the boycott started against St. Martin, so I held off on it.
00:25:15
Speaker
And honestly, that one is probably my favorite one, which I feel like is such a tease to say because it hasn't been released yet. But that that was probably the best one because she's just like so cool. and It ended up that we had like a lot in common, too, because she um like she lives here, right?
00:25:32
Speaker
He lives very close to me. She went to UGA as well. um And she very randomly got diagnosed with endometriosis like a month before I did. So we were like, relating to each other on that fact before we got on because you can always tell it's gonna be a good episode when the author can't stop talking to you before you hit record. And that was, which makes it seem like she was talking to me and I was not accepting of it, but it was more of like the chatter was there. So that one was really good, but they're all really fun for their own reason. Cool. I love that. Okay, Hayley, we are here to discuss the state of the book community and I think you can't talk about the book community without sharing your own hot take or hot takes. Yes.
00:26:13
Speaker
off the top of your head, what do you believe is your hottest take around the book community or about the book community? Well, off the top of my head, off my notes app that I have next to our recording right now, um I actually broke them down by warm, hot and hottest. And then I have some like honorable mentions. So do you want me to start with hottest or do you want me to work out? You can just do hottest. Yeah, let's start there. let's Oh, okay.
00:26:39
Speaker
Oh, you wanted to save it? No, no, I was gonna say we should we should like work up to it. But if we're gonna start off with a bang, let's start off with a bang. Okay, yeah let's do it. Okay, cuz I was gonna work up to it. But let's let's just do it. This is also when like I mentioned to you before, it's kind of like, I definitely want to know if y'all agree or if like, I'm the only one that thinks this.
Authors and Social Media Etiquette
00:26:58
Speaker
Because these are all things that like, all of the ones I have written down are not things that I had to put a lot of thought behind. These are like When y'all were like, we're gonna do book a shot bookish community hot takes, I was like, okay, all done. move yeah um So this one is kind of like two parts. And the first part of it is I think that more authors, and I think maybe this is on publishers, because I would consider them as part of the bookish community to some degree, um more authors need media training and social media training. Oh my God, agree. 100% agree. I think it's kind of,
00:27:36
Speaker
irresponsible on behalf of the publisher because sometimes debut authors are just, well, we mostly read romance. So it's like women in their 20s and 30s who wrote a book, just regular people, and now are expected to be somewhat of a public figure. And we're just sending them off like people who were, you know,
00:27:54
Speaker
they were nurses, they worked in HR, they were just regular people and then they wrote a book and now they're supposed to be a public figure and know what to do and I think that's really irresponsible of the publishers to do that. I think like you're seeing that like I don't know if you've been keeping up what's been happening with Chapel Rhone, but I think that's like another good example. where you like Absolutely. With her, unfortunately, like this could be a hot take too. I don't have but as much sympathy because she's been working at this for 10 years, so you would think that she would have a little bit under two. This was the end goal. This wasn't like a thing that randomly happened to her. I think it's crazy that she doesn't have one already. With um with authors, like I think
00:28:32
Speaker
I think they need better media training. Yeah. And then like you see how they act on TikTok on Instagram. Like it's not good. Yeah. And like, I definitely think in terms of podcasting, cause like that's really the most accessible way for like a author to like immediately have their voice out there. And it's like, you'll ask them like, what's your book about? And they're like, Oh, I didn't think about that before this. And it's like, what do you mean? Yeah. Or they'll start from zero.
00:28:59
Speaker
Yeah. And like the thing is, is you can tell sometimes who have been doing it for a while because they've either had to teach themselves or they learned from other people or someone else. There was another author who guided them and you can see that. And like it's kind of, um, it's kind of sad sometimes cause like you recognize that like who is like just out the gate and that their publicist is really working to get their book out there, but they're not working as hard to ah help their author represent themselves in the best way possible.
00:29:28
Speaker
yeah and sometimes i think just from what i've seen like online and stuff like an author is more concerned about like them, the person when they're talking, like they want to make it all about them, but it's like you are representing a product that you made and like we need to focus on that. And then they like become the personality. And then we see them, we see that by them in the ass. Like I always say this Victoria AVR, the author of what does she write? Red Queen. queen She's always one tick tock away from getting canceled. I think it's almost happened a few times, but like she makes it all about herself. And then it sometimes backfires when you're trying to put something out.
00:30:02
Speaker
And then it just doesn't, people are like, wait, yeah, I don't want to, cause you're talking about stuff that i didn't and we didn't ask for, you know, but you're using your platform as an author to like, there's pros and cons. Yeah. I also think that what you're saying Kendra leads to authors being unable to separate themselves from criticism and not everybody, but when you make your product completely about you and yourself as an author and yourself as a writer, then when people are critiquing the work,
00:30:29
Speaker
a lot of we've seen it happen time and time again, where an author sees that as a critique of them, they get really defensive, they lash out, everybody's like, what is your problem? Yeah, because that's kind of I guess, part of my like second half of like authors needing media social media training. And I think this one's also kind of hard because on social media authors oftentimes run everything themselves sometimes they'll outsource like graphics etc but they're doing it themselves some people have their social media run entirely by other people so it's really dependent but i think in that same space of like authors and criticism and like the idea of reader spaces like goodreads 100% a reader space but social media is kind of a free-for-all and it comes up to etiquette and there's like a big etiquette discussion lately has been tagging
00:31:16
Speaker
authors in posts super easy not to just don't do it if it's not a rave how yeah what are you even thinking like i feel like we can all agree on that but i think a lot of the confusion sometimes comes down on like fyp and explore pages is that authors are creating content that seems like it be could be content that was created by a reader. And I think that authors need to somehow draw a line between content that looks like it is like organic from a reader and content that is their own. Because there's one book in particular that I read over the summer, and I went i wanted to know when the sequel was coming out, because I knew it was a fantasy series. And I clicked on a pinned post to see when it was coming out, and it was a real spoiling the end of book one.
00:32:04
Speaker
And I was flabbergasted that this was the like I like even checked. I was like, this is the author on the author oh on the author's page. And so like I think a lot of the times there's this like no spoiler warning, no spoiler warning. Like I was I was beyond I was beyond myself. And like it wasn't even like an old book. It was new. Was it powerless by Lauren Roberts? It was not powerless by Robert Roberts. I have not read that yet. But I was just I think that there's this feeling of authors like that they need to like compete with content creators that like they need to get their stuff out there but in the same way that like I think that authors becoming like a personality I don't always think that's bad that like if you're not
00:32:51
Speaker
necessarily pushing your books out there but like if you yourself are coming on like represented as an author and you're pushing your books out there I think that that can be a really good way to run your social media but I think that there's this misconception that authors need to compete with content creators and maybe that is true of like the algorithm etc but I do think sometimes a lot of the confusion in author versus reader spaces is that authors are creating the same kind of content and then someone won't check who posted it, they'll give a little feedback to the content creator yeah and it's the author and then they get offended and like you're not always checking who posted it. Sometimes you don't even know the name of the author when you read a book. so yeah There's a little bit of um a line there. I think also what's happened is like we're getting a lot of indie authors that are now um traditionally published, which means that their books are accessible to way more people who like don't have books around. They're not on TikTok, they're just average everyday readers. And I like will go on my personal Instagram account and people will just like post if they're reading a book on their stories and like sometimes they'll tag on authors.
Indie Authors and Reader Etiquette
00:33:56
Speaker
I see authors get so frustrated over the etiquette thing, but it's like not everyone is like on bookstagram 24 seven. Like they don't know the rules. Yeah. um And like they're not doing it maliciously. Like they just, thought oh, like I'm just going to share this thing with like people. Um, so yeah, it's just, it's really interesting. I do think at a certain point too.
00:34:15
Speaker
it becomes like, if it is frustrating you this much, don't let people tag you anymore. Because Abby Menes does not let people tag her in post. yeah And like, I feel like I can use Abby as an example of somebody who like,
00:34:32
Speaker
does it like engages sometimes like we'll comment on some posts every once in a while and like a post and share a post and whatever but she had a massive following before she started publishing books and I know that has to be part of it as she's already been in this social media game because of Nadia Cakes because of her network because of her dogs but she just seemingly stays unbothered. Like, I'm sure there are people out there who hate her books. so Her first two books get torn apart on TikTok and Instagram constantly. And yeah I've just never, ever seen her engaged with that kind of stuff. um And we have complimented Lauren Asher a lot on her Instagram because it is very clearly an author Instagram. You're getting the information you need. You get fun teasers. You get an aesthetically pleasing post, but never with that confusion that you were talking about Haley of like, who's posting this and why?
00:35:23
Speaker
Yeah, I bought that Abby thing. Obviously, I would love for Abby to be able to see how much I rave about her and her books. I'd love for her to like, see all that but like I fully and completely respect and understand why she doesn't because she had a huge following beforehand. Like you were saying, Brandy, I'm sure that that's part of the reason why she had already disabled tags like as long as I've been following her.
00:35:46
Speaker
she's never had tags enabled so and that's been like a few years now so i am curious then like to know because i'm sure she does come across some things like she's on tiktok so i'm sure that she sees things about herself on her tiktok so i'm just curious to know like from her perspective turning off tags how much that has like really helped her like as an author in that kind of headspace and i'm just like curious to know then yeah for other authors Like what is preventing you from turning off tags just cause you don't want to miss all the good stuff that people, like I'm just curious to know from their perspective.
00:36:23
Speaker
are you scared you won't see the good content then when you like turn off those tags like that's what your biggest worry is you know yeah that is like a ah bit of a trade-off it's like if the negative comments are affecting you so much is it worth seeing and resharing the good or not even good just people sharing it sometimes it's just yeah like other people making content like is it is you sharing that Yeah, and it's not even that like Abby she doesn't see the good stuff because she does she follows a lot of but books to grammars that's constantly talk about her book. So she only
00:36:58
Speaker
Reshares things from people that she already follows. Like I don't think that she she shared a couple of my stuff. ah Oh Yeah, I'm pretty sure that she has someone that like goes through the tags Okay and says here's a good and I think that's what if you have the resources like even if it's like them relying on their partner or their kid whoever like find the good stuff, let me see it and then They can move on. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah I do think it's funny though cuz like I had Yuling Kwang on the podcast and she reads her one stars and five star reviews on Goodreads and And she just like so she likes to see what people have to say because like at one star, it's like at that point, there's no there's no criticism that will help. It's just like kind of funny. um So i think I think that there's like a, it depends on the person.
00:37:42
Speaker
yeah and I'd still be afraid to read a one-star because I think it would be very critical and harsh in a one-star review. Yeah, that's the thing. It's like they are. She's like, yeah, yeah one of five. And I was like, that is insane, but I ah respect your process. Wow. Hailey, what is your next bookish hot take? You can move up or down your scale. Okay. Well, that was the top. So we will be moving down. I'll say hot. I was like, you can gatekeep.
00:38:08
Speaker
on Bookstagram. And I specifically mean you can gatekeep how you do things. like If you are how you make your content, you can gatekeep the ah graphics and the fonts that you're using. If you have contacts and you have been sent ARCs or advanced copies or gifted copies and someone messages you asking you how you got it or who you contacted, I think that you have every right not to respond to them.
00:38:36
Speaker
i agree I agree. I think you definitely have every right, but I have definitely been somebody that's asked like, Hey, who did you ask for that? Can I get it? Oh, no. Cause you asked me recently and I was like here. I think I sent you like 16 messages in response and like a voice memo and like a video.
Privacy in the Book Community
00:38:53
Speaker
And I was like, yeah, I'm totally ready to help you.
00:38:57
Speaker
Like, yeah, I like sent you a Google message of like, this is how you start an email account. Um, but no, I feel like there's like, cause after, I think it was after I posted my Adrian young account or art rather, my message requests, I had like 20, like who did you contact? And I think that there's a level of it. Like, yeah, like it's a community, but it's like, also like I worked really hard to get both my account and my like.
00:39:22
Speaker
I was going to say reputation and not in any way reputation, but I do get sent a lot of like requests and stuff and I get contacted and I get those contacts that way. I think it's okay to keep them and I i um i mostly say this because I did see at the Red Post recently, it's like bigger accounts shouldn't be keeping how they get them or like how they're growing. And it's like, yeah, I can.
00:39:46
Speaker
yeah Yeah. I also think like there's a difference between like sharing stuff with the people you like follow and engage with. like you You responded to Kayla because like you guys are friends. you know it's Yeah. I have Kayla's phone number. Yeah. It's people that like randomly come into our DMs and they're like, how did you do this? like How did you get that? Or like they'll like comment on like your posts. And I like to just ignore it because it's just like, yeah. like I've never talked to you before. It's not a big secret. I just host and I was consistent and it sort of just happened. Yeah, I agree. I think you should be able to gatekeep. There's a whole thing recently because of the girl who sold her LC Silver PR package that smaller accounts need more visibility to as if larger accounts didn't grow from zero followers. From smaller accounts, yeah.
00:40:33
Speaker
and no one taught anyone how to do it we all just guessed and like you know it's honestly no one's gatekeeping contacts like if you go on an author's page they literally want you to be able to contact them there's a couple people who are hard to find but for the most part it's there and it's if whether or not they're gonna respond to you and If you, okay you can easily find contact information. If you just take maybe a minute yeah to just try to find it yourself, you know, like it's really, it's really, it's not sponsored by Google. It's not FTC disclosure. yeah yeah I think where I do understand some people's frustrations,
PR Packages and Creator Expectations
00:41:11
Speaker
because like I'll get like annoyed, um, is when you see like the, the like,
00:41:18
Speaker
influencer book accounts because I feel like everyone that I follow like I don't consider them influencers like I don't know people listening that I'm friends with like if they consider that an insult like I can just consider you like a regular poster you just are creating content but then you have like the big book influencer counts and I think it's frustrating when you see like the indie authors and the even publishers like prioritize them over like the small accounts that I can see I would have like an issue with like not even my account like accounts that like are like if you were constantly posting about like Elsie Silver and then just because we mentioned the girls on the arc but then she's only sending it to like
00:41:52
Speaker
these three people yeah never post about it. That's when I get a little like, maybe you could do a better outreach, like send it to them and some other accounts. yeah yeah There are some authors that I think are very good and publishers that are very good at creating a mixed bag of like who they're sending to. But then I'm like, why are you getting mad about like not getting an ARC? Like, how fair. See, this is this is my biggest gripe about this conversation when we talk about big accounts versus smaller accounts, because this has been a hot button topic on threads recently, which is so fucking annoying.
00:42:19
Speaker
Oh my god, I hate threads. Um, but I did see your, um, what do we call a thread post? It's just thread thread. I saw you the thread you were sewing um that you thought it was like a hellscape hell. Yeah. Yeah. I forget the word to use that threads is a hellscape. And unfortunately, like I just need to spend more time on there to curate my for you page on there better for myself at work. I don't know. It is linked to your, it is linked to your Instagram. Then it's yeah. But no one I follow on bookstore on bookstagram is the people that come up.
00:42:56
Speaker
yeah it's it's a mix it's It's supposed to be a mix of people you follow plus an algorithm of threads that they think you will enjoy. yeah I don't have threads. Y'all send me everything that I see on there. yeah but This conversation that started on there is all about PR, which is really, in my opinion,
00:43:18
Speaker
such a tacky way to be having this conversation. It just feels so ungrateful when I see threads that are like, how do I get PR, like that just feels. Are you doing it because you want the PR or are you doing it because you want to support the author like I don't know it's it's.
00:43:35
Speaker
this conversation about smaller account versus bigger account feels so centered around getting free stuff from a lot of the times in the authors. Because i I think that sometimes there's the level of we have to recognize that like a lot of people, they just don't know. They CPR and they're like, oh my God, people are getting sent free stuff? How do I do that? And they don't recognize that it's like, a relationship because that's really all this community is in terms of like quote unquote getting free stuff, getting sent arcs, getting sent gifted copies, PR packages. It's about the relationships that you create in this community and the influencer teams that you apply for. And I think that that is kind of
00:44:13
Speaker
sometimes hard to see that this is like a organized thing behind this and it's not just like random accounts that are being selected. But yeah, it really isn't, a it loses the ability to be about I'm supporting this author that I love a lot. um And more of like, yeah, I want to, I want to get free stuff. That's a really good perspective, Haley. And I'm glad that you said that because I hadn't thought about it from that perspective because the accounts that I have seen are people who are like, I've been doing this for two years and I have 2000 followers and I never get anything and I get denied ARCs all the time and this PR company hates me. And so I think I get like in this mindset where then everything I see about
00:44:50
Speaker
this conversation. I'm imagining it from that perspective of people who have been here and know it and are still complaining. And there are so many people who are just brand new to the space who are like, I don't know what to do. like ah ah what What should I be doing? And that's such a good perspective to have. And I need to go into threads with better intentions. But I literally opened that up already in a bad mood. I just needed to leave that.
00:45:10
Speaker
It could be that that's exactly who they are. you know I'm just giving them the benefit of the doubt. And I think you're right to do that. I think there's a lot of people who are who deserve that benefit of the doubt and I need to have a better perspective on
Influencer Programs and Relationships
00:45:22
Speaker
it. No, I think sometimes drama is started from people who like genuinely didn't know what they were doing yeah and then people who did know but also maybe don't know.
00:45:32
Speaker
took it from them ran with it and it became a much bigger deal than it needed to be taken out of context as a lot of things are new people join the book community every single day like I have to tell myself that all the time also like with the influencer programs I will literally not apply to some if they ask for like too much because I'm like, you guys are doing too much. like My account got big because I was just randomly posting my books that I already owned and like it went viral. But then now they're asking people, we want your follower account on all of your accounts, how consistent you're posting on these accounts.
00:46:11
Speaker
and it's just like No, like it literally takes it takes one video to change an author's life. We've seen this time, like time and time again. um So you like that that's kind of going back to what I was saying earlier, like them prioritizing these like bigger influencer accounts because they think that'll be the pop off and like.
00:46:30
Speaker
the algorithm might not even favor that video, but that you can send it to someone who, you know, just wanted to read it and the passion comes across and then it goes viral. And then like, now you're outselling like this book. So yeah, it was like one program where I was like, why are you asking like engagement rate all this stuff? I was like,
00:46:45
Speaker
You either like my content or you don't. And can be kind of honest like coming from like the I guess understanding with like my other accounts like not just like my personal accounts but like that with that I do I call my job but with the podcast is like a lot of the followings that people have in the bookish community Publishing houses should not be requiring so much of these influencers without proper compensation. Saying that a gifted book
00:47:18
Speaker
And like a gifted arc, sometimes digital, sometimes physical, and then a gifted copy of a book. Like you're telling me that $30 in exchange for what I'm doing and what you're requiring of me and you're going to kick me out is honestly insane because like there are like, there's like a whole like, you know, like rate that exists for a lot of like influencers. And I think that sometimes, like I'm not saying that publishing houses are predatory in any way, but I do think that they are taking advantage of people who don't want to ask for anything who are afraid to because they see on close friends all the time people who like get reached out to from brands and they're like, Oh my gosh, I'm gonna ask for the absolute minimum amount that I possibly could before they ghost me. And honestly, you should be asking for more. And I think that, yeah um, I think that influencer programs are taking advantage of people who don't know.
00:48:07
Speaker
I am so thankful that the first time like a larger brand reached out to me, they also reached out to Kendra because Kendra had like kind of been through this before and like has worked
Evolving Book Community Dynamics
00:48:17
Speaker
with brands in the past. i was about to I was about to lose money on this brand deal because I was like just so grateful they asked and Kendra was like, fuck no, you're not doing that. Yeah, absolutely not. And I was like, oh, OK. And then it ended up being great. Yeah. yeah that's I've never personally been reached out to a brand like for for a paid anything, but now I know I have friends that that I can reach out to that can help me. yeah because yeah I wouldn't know what to do either. um so I'm so glad that I have like people you know around me that can yeah help me do that. yeah but and and Truly, just like going back to the influencer programs, for people that are listening and that you you know do genuinely want to support authors and um
00:48:59
Speaker
you know, what what do you do truly like there for me, at least I found there's no rhyme or reason to why you get accepted or rejected all the time. I mean, like I'm in some I got rejected for a lot of others, you know, it's like there's just it's just it is what it is, you know, and I'm obviously super thankful for the ones that I did get accepted, did get accepted for. But like sometimes there's just there's just not a reason, you know, sometimes it really does come down to luck. Like I've seen accounts that can that grow, you know,
00:49:28
Speaker
um that have been posting for only like a few months. They just grow so fast. The algorithm got them at the right time. You know, it just happens that way. You know, I've had my account for a couple of years, you know, and I'm sort of stuck in the same place, but that's okay. Like, like Brandy had said at the beginning of this episode, like I got what I needed. you know i'm I've got all my friends. you know i've I've made friends. I've got to have so many cool experiences from it.
Balancing Books and Social Media
00:49:52
Speaker
And that's enough. you know Yeah. And I will say, I do think influencer programs are really cool. I it's not that i think it i think it's really selective when, yeah um because I think I look at some of these really big accounts.
00:50:03
Speaker
um who have like a ton of followers and they are the people who are like, Oh, I don't know ah if I should ask for anything. I'm like, you shouldn't be a part of influencer programs. I feel like influencer programs really should just be for smaller accounts yeah um because it really just opens up like this whole new readership to like support authors. And I think that that is cool, but I do think there are elements of it that um could be different. Don't hate me at publishers. yeah no but This podcast ends your entire career. No one ever reaches out to me ever again. Okay, Hayley, next take. Okay, so this is like the chillest of one of them.
00:50:42
Speaker
And maybe this is because, okay, because I am on the outskirts a little bit. And maybe it's because I'm a little bit older. I'm like the grandmother of bookstagram. I'm 31. So like, I feel like I follow people who are pushing 40, girl, you're young. it's Like a great aunt maybe, um but I'm definitely like on the older side because I feel like I've most of the people that like honestly on booktube and on bookstagram I see people who are like 24 and under like finding people who are like closer to my age I'm like hello welcome so nice to see you
00:51:17
Speaker
um But I think that if you feel like Bookstagram is a competition, it's because you're competing in the competition. It's not a competition if you are actually just posting. And I know that can be hard because you see other people's content doing really well and you want your content to do really well too. But I think it just is part of what creates a negative mindset around Bookstagram because you started this because you like to read and you wanted to share about it. I think.
00:51:46
Speaker
Maybe step out and ask yourself why, why you did this, why you want you wanted to make friends. But it's not a competition. And I think that if you step back and you're like, there is room for all of us because algorithm is catching up on a lot of things. It's such a better mindset to go into it with because I see so many people posting on their close friends or not on their close friends about how much they hate the competition on Bookstagram.
00:52:12
Speaker
And every single time I want to respond to them and be like, it's a competition because you're competing in it. It wouldn't be a competition if you stopped competing. Yeah, I will say I'm I can be guilty of this sometimes when like I post something like a reel or whatever and like it doesn't do well and then like oh my gosh Why like why is this happening? Like everybody's like post reels, but and they get so much views like, you know Like I'm guilty of this yeah the time especially considering like, you know, if you like put work into something, you know, you want to do well So it makes sense, you know when you when you feel that way but yeah definitely at the end of the day like you said Haley I'm here because
00:52:44
Speaker
You know, we all have a love for a similar thing. And again, I got what I needed, you know, and that's that's really all that matters at the end of the day. You know, if I'm proud of what I'm doing, it doesn't really matter.
00:52:56
Speaker
Yeah, it's the virality of it that really I think gets to people because like if you think about it like if you post a reel it gets 6,000 views you're like oh that could have done so much better it could have hit 10,000 but then like at the end of the day you're like there's 6,000 seats in Radio City Hall so it's like you think about that it's like that many people at one time saw you oh you so like that's still cool and yeah you put the work into it but like it's I think in that case it's less of the competition of it and more of just the comparison of it because I think those can be kind of different while also overlapping but you're doing great Kayla. I do think it's important to have like friends in the community too that are like a safe place for you to talk about that as well because our
00:53:40
Speaker
group chat between the three of us, every once in a while we'll be like, can I be annoying really quick? Or can I be like, can I whine really quick? And then we'll just like get it all out there so that way it doesn't have to affect your psyche. So I think that's why the friendships created on the book in the book communities are so beautiful because you can have a place for that.
00:54:00
Speaker
yeah Yeah. And I think that a lot of people say that but like the bookish community is clickish and it can be to some degree, but I see i see that coming a lot from like younger people, mostly because I feel like it can be clickish, but I think the perception of people being actual friends on Bookstagram can be a little misleading. It's almost like it's an engagement group and they're all sharing each other's posts and liking and commenting. It's like,
00:54:29
Speaker
No, these people are like actually friends these people like meet up in real life and talk Yeah, some of these people are starting podcasts together and they just yeah. Oh my god who are you talking about well there's this podcast called I think I got like really I don't know my mindset I think there was one summer where like book talk was like my everything and I'll never forget I went out to dinner with my friend and I was just being so annoying
Authenticity and Viral Content
00:54:56
Speaker
at the table like I was trying to find like a sound for something you know I'm at dinner with my friend that like I never got to see and like I'm prioritizing like people on the internet that I don't know me and I think it was in that moment where I was like I don't get paid for this this is a hobby I love reading
00:55:12
Speaker
I have a job. like a job like i I have a friend. I have a job. And then like, Brenda was saying, like, once you start making friends on the book community, at least for me, like I was able to like take a huge step back.
00:55:26
Speaker
and I wasn't just like getting on the internet posting every little thought that I had because I had people I say some dumb shit all the time I say hacks all the time that I can share in a safe space I wasn't agreeing with you saying dumb things I was agreeing that I also say dumb things but I say it all the time but I can say it in a safe space and like I had people that would be like well no Kendra like that's not like the way that was meant to be like But I'm not like getting on the internet and then like allowing 12,000 people to view me and like correct me. And I hate when this happens. Someone will join, I'll just use Bookstagramma or Booktalk as the example. Someone will join Booktalk and their content will be very fun. they you It's really fitting them. They're not getting as many views, but then they're going to kind of do what we're doing now. They're going to make a hot take video. Or they're going to make a video that, you know, it's a negative
00:56:16
Speaker
review, which I think you should ah be allowed to do on book talk. Um, but you know, maybe it's like more like, at like the intentions behind it aren't just to give like critical feedback. It's like to be negative for the sake of views. Right. And then that one video will get them so many views, so many comments, so many followers, and then that becomes their thing and they lose everything else that made their account fun. And it sucks i've seen it happen too many times to count and i always just want to ask them like do you even still enjoy this or are you just like trying to like that dopamine hit of like oh my god this is viral 100% yeah i'm so glad like i never went viral for something negative it was always something positive
00:56:56
Speaker
and like that. I can't even imagine like where yeah like where where I would be if I like, you know, because yeah, starting out like you are you are just trying to get like your feet off the ground. But I would say if you are in the position where like you have a job, you have friends, and this is a hobby, do everything in your power to keep it that way. If something comes along and like, you know, that's great. But then I have friends, um our friend Kimmy, like this is like her full time thing. Like Kimmy books. Yeah, Kimmy books.
00:57:22
Speaker
I think she handles herself though. She's so great. She's a beautiful princess. She's a real life Barbie. It's insane. And then you meet her in person. She's incredible. Like, really? The funniest, most down-to-earth. She followed me on Bookstagram. I was like, hi. Kimmy is like a superstar. She's quite literally one of the funniest people I know. But Kimmy's very like, she's very intentional, but yet she's herself. Oh yeah, we've had her on twice. Like, we love her. Magnolia Park is back again. Oh, okay. That's why I haven't. Yeah, she's our Magnolia Park princess.
00:57:49
Speaker
yeah No, I've read Magnolia Parks. Every time I post about Magnolia Parks, Hayley will be like, wait, that happened? I can't ever remember who's who. So I've told myself that I can't listen to that episode until I reread. Okay, got it. Because I don't remember who anyone is. it's It's a great one if I do say so. I thought that Julian was the cop. I think that... No. explain Yeah, girl, you got it. He's a brother. You got a lot to... oh No, no, no, not Julian. Julian's the one I like. What's his name? Christian?
00:58:18
Speaker
No, the bad guy. Jonah. No, he's a bad boy. Tiller? Romeo. Not Tiller. No, Romeo. I thought Romeo was Tiller, who is the cop. Yeah. Oh, yes. Correct. Okay. Okay. I'm not even going to get into this. Anyway. But what you were saying about Kimmy. Kimmy to me is like a really good example of someone who like does this full time, but like stays very true to herself. like We've talked about how she like films her content and like how she takes breaks. and like she's if I follow her like on other accounts and she's still like it's always out with her friends, like always doing things. I'm like, yeah, I know she gets like stressed with certain things. like You're going to get stressed with everything.
00:58:58
Speaker
but I've never seen her intentionally make something just for the sake of views. She's always making content because she wants to make it. We always mention our friend ah Gracie at Gracie Del Taco. Gracie's TikTok is one of the most fascinating places on planet earth because she just talks about whatever the hell she wants to talk about. And this somehow is always bookish related, but sometimes she'll get two views and sometimes she'll get a million views. But if it's a topic that she's stuck on, she's going to keep making content about it because she loves yeah sharing it. She loves the conversation. Yeah. Yeah.
00:59:27
Speaker
Yeah, I will say I come at this with the perspective that I was really big on TikTok in 2021 as a Gilmore girly girl. um And I had both a wonderful time and literally like one of the worst times like I wanted to quit social media and never post anything ever on the internet ever again.
00:59:45
Speaker
um because i was posting three videos a day just to yes i thought that's what you had to do and people like if you want to grow you go you post three videos a day and that's what i was doing and it was harrowing and i hated it and then i stopped and then i came back with like a better perspective of like I was fighting people in the comments about things. yeah And I like, once we like took a step back and we're starting to do our podcast, I was like, we all love this same thing. We don't have to fight about it. So now I like deescalate things where someone will be ready getting really mad about something. I'm like, I'm so glad we both love this show so much.
01:00:19
Speaker
And then they're always like, me too. So like, it's like if you can like find them at like their core of like, they love this thing. Um, so I think I do have the perspective of like, I did go viral a lot for things that like were controversial or I went viral for things that were positive. And at the end of the day, I was like, no, like this is all, this is all just like a ah hobby that I turned into a job. But like the end of the day, the comments and the emotional impact that I have to have from it can be removed from it all.
Critique of Popular Book Tropes
01:00:52
Speaker
Yeah. And the block button exists. Like I always tell people that I love her. Don't be for, like sometimes the way you get them is by not responding and then blocking them. Like, yeah, that's the easiest thing to do. There's so much to be said from not responding to it. yeah then goes his like but i will do Yeah. They will just keep coming back and looking at that comment again and again and all you're getting is engagement. Yeah. yeah
01:01:17
Speaker
Hailey, do you have any more for us? um I actually have one that, once upon a time, y'all read one of mine on your podcast, and it was about good girls. And I think that This is this is us about bookish community because this is more about that's like anything books in general Yeah, yeah um that I don't think every author in Their spice needs to throw in a good girl because I read one specifically this year. I won't say what book it was I can tell y'all later But it came out of the blue. We didn't build up to a good girl It just was thrown in there and you were like ah
01:01:58
Speaker
What is this? And I just saw in threads before I got on here. Cause it's like, I'm going to scroll through before I get on here. And someone was like, someone was like, y'all get ready for more and more good girls to pop up in, um, like spice fiction. And I was like, no.
01:02:13
Speaker
I don't it's like you got to build up to it you can't just you can't just drop it in you have to put this into the personality of the people between us so that like it hits it hits hard and i think that sometimes it's undeserving and i know that it's a popular thing to share uh that it exists in the book when you're making content but it's not always deserved not everyone deserves to be a good girl i 100 agree i always Mine is ah You Can Take It because I know where this came from. i can I can trace the origin. What's the origin, Kendra? So this French guy used to make these like sex videos on TikTok and it was in like 2021, 2022 and he had a video go viral and it ended up on like the book talk side of things where he was giving um suggestions for phrases that men can use on their partner in the bedroom and the one that made him like really pop off was
01:03:10
Speaker
You can take it. You can take it. But in a French accent. Yes. In a French accent. Every book since then. You can take it. Oh, my God. Kayla, one more time. Play it back. Play it back. I got to get a I got to I got to take all the French pee from Veggie Tales and then I'll be good. but pe You can take it.
01:03:33
Speaker
And that man like changed the course of the talk. So sorry to all the French listeners. For forever because people took that and then this thing started where like there's a specific account I can put the blame on but I'm not going to but it was multiple accounts actually they would take phrases and words and that would be the whole TikTok but they would label it as book talk content and it's like oh when they say this mind you they're not getting this from any book they're just like making shit up they're like when he says you can take it where what book did you get that from but then i think a lot of authors and media teams were seeing that so then when these
01:04:06
Speaker
team sit down to discuss, okay, like what are you writing next? What's in, like what do you think readers will love? That became a part of the conversation kind of alongside Good Girl. I think Smut in general, I've read so many books where Smut does not need to be there at all. A closed-door romance will not kill us. like i Sometimes I don't need to see them, especially when it comes out of left field or like it becomes explicit like out of nowhere. like You've been talking like a normal human being this entire book.
01:04:31
Speaker
But the minute you start to fuck, it's like your big, long, girthy cock in my sweat. Like shut the fuck up. There's a way to make it fit like what you're doing without it being like totally. That was a really good euphemism. There's a way to make it fit. I always say big, girthy cock. Oh my gosh. No. And Kristina and Lauren does that really well. I feel like they oscillate between closed door, kind of like open door and explicit really well. It would be like vague, yeah. Yeah.
01:05:01
Speaker
Yeah, I have been hitting next chapter on a lot of spice scenes lately in my audio books. Like I just literally skipped to the next chapter and then I'll rewind a little bit if I feel like I missed something, but it just has not been hitting for me the same. And I feel like it is a lot of because of the, you know, virality of certain phrases, you know, it kills me.
01:05:25
Speaker
I know baby, I know. Instead of saying like, and when she's like, it feels so good. Like I know. That also came from the French guy too. That came from the French guy too. He ruined my life. well Yeah, I hate that one. He's a Frenchman. He really did a number. He really did a number. Where is he today? When you guys get him, can I come back?
01:05:51
Speaker
Oh my gosh. Yeah, because like I think that part of it is that they are getting this, like, um like there's like that virality of, like, people will pull that out. um Or, like, what's the other one that I'm trying to think of? is um like where's my wife or like that one you have to when that's revealed that can be so incredible but it has you have to build up to it because otherwise it's like yeah that that's literally your wife and you're looking for it that makes sense yeah and so we have it has to like build up to it and it has to make sense and i i do think that sometimes the bookish community can impact the way that an author will include things when you said you can take it immediately reminded me of love on the brain that's the only thing i remember
01:06:35
Speaker
and the gun. um god and never so i never i that's the only allie book i haven't that book because made that It
01:06:47
Speaker
awful it just was not it was not i don't bring it high i bring it actually pretty low with some spaces between them but that's all i really remember about it was the gun and the you can take it the gun i think you can take it is so funny have you read that one kale i can't remember no that's the only one i haven't Well, there's a gun and you can take it.
Trend-Based Writing and Reader Expectations
01:07:09
Speaker
Don't tell Ali. I said that if you guys ever have Ali. He's a little. Yeah. But when we'd had authors on recently, we asked them, like, what is a read moment from your book that you don't want spoiled? Right. Because it is kind of sad that like so many books now it's like, I think it's twofold. Like, I think there are certain books that are being made to be like these viral. And you can tell because they're writing these very specific scenes to like,
01:07:34
Speaker
of peas and audience which is not always a bad thing but you can you can just tell when something is popped in there for the sake of like becoming a viral TikTok moment. So I just want more authors to not focus in on like those viral moments. I don't know. I hate it. Guys, I literally talked about this in therapy last week because I have been feeling a lot of burnout with my accounts in a way that I haven't really in the past. ah But I specifically was talking to her about i I can pinpoint the moment a lot of stuff changed for me as far as like what I will read and what I won't read. I was interviewing an author, which I won't talk about who it wasn't on the podcast. It was ah separate like through my account. And I asked her like, Oh, like what made you decide to write this kind of book? And she was like, Well, my PA told me that small town romances were really in. And I was like, and that's why you decided. Yeah, that's why some people need a media team.
01:08:25
Speaker
Like, that is why you decided to write the series because your PA, who is a book talker, told you that small-town romance is really in. that like That made my stomach drop in the interview. And I literally told my therapist, I was like, there are i I have such higher standards for what I will read at this point in my journey. Therapy's book club at this point. Exactly. She has a literature degree on top of her. Oh, love. Anyway, she's incredible. I'm obsessed with her. Hey, Sarah.
01:08:52
Speaker
Um, but if you listen to this, please don't. Um, but anyways, I like, I just have different standards for what I will read now because I feel like so much stuff is being written for virality. What's the point of that? But yeah, I think that there are like books, like recent books that we can all think of that like kind of hitting tropes, like they're marking off. That's like, this is what I want. It's like a trope, trope checks mix and yeah just reach in whatever. Oh, I'll say the book.
01:09:19
Speaker
Wild Love by Elsie Silver. That was like a trope blender. like And again, i we've had Elsie on the podcast and I loved love Chestnut Springs. But like yeah Wild Love and even I thought Wild Eyes was better, but it still was not great. I haven't read Wild Eyes yet. I liked it better. It's better. That's it. Whatever you review. yeah yeah But like it felt like it was just trope after trope after trope. And then like the characters got lost in that.
01:09:48
Speaker
And I'm just like, what are we doing? It's a lot of conversation. Well, this perfectly leads into another hot take that we had. And we've talked about this before on the podcast, is the tropes taking over the world of book marketing, the aero graphic, things like that. Sometimes I don't mind it. There are certain ones where I'm just like,
01:10:16
Speaker
why like Why would you include that? i I think about Tanya anytime we have this conversation because she shared one where she was so livid because one of the tropes was he puts her hair in a ponytail yeah and Tanya was like, what are we doing? What are we doing?
01:10:33
Speaker
but Are we just listening to actions now? One was like, there's a leather jacket. Wait, that's the one I was gonna say. Isn't that the KBR one? Yeah, and it's like, what are we doing on that? I can't remember where it's from, but it was like, uh, okay. He's cold. He's cold-natured. Cold-hearted. Like, what are we saying about this man? If you're picking up a book solely because the Melman character is wearing a leather jacket,
01:10:59
Speaker
That's when I have to judge you just a little bit. like That's when you're going to be let down. Yeah. Because I don't know what you're wanting. But but yeah. And I think that listing tropes is so good in recommendations. like If it's like, I love second chance romances, I'm going to ask Brandi. She's going to give me some. And we know that that's what they are. I think it works so well, especially as content creators in the bookish community. Sometimes that's just what people want. like You're looking for books like this. They're not normally the same. like I was talking to Jessica Joyce recently. Her new book, she said, I don't even know what the tropes are until I'm done. And I wanted to be like very good. Love that for you. Yes. like Applause. so But Vex Val's Second Chance Romance. She didn't go into it wanting to tell a Second Chance Romance, but sometimes
01:11:45
Speaker
I do feel a little bit bad being like, oh, this is just a trope blender. Because like, what if that's not what they thought it was? What if they really thought that they were writing a really profound character story? And we're all like, this is just trope central. Yeah, going back to what you said about Jessica Joyce, first of all, love that. Because yeah, when an author starts a book and they say, I want to write a second chance, fake dating,
01:12:14
Speaker
brother's best friend, single dad romance, you know, like that's where I, I didn't even know if that would work, but you know, there's a book out there probably just like that. If you're listening and you have a book rack for that, please send it. Yeah. But when you build your book and that's supposed to be your foundation, like that's where I'm like, let's pump the brakes. Like let's, let's stop there. Yeah. So, and like Haley, I know you're saying like, you know, what if they are going in thinking that they're writing this thing and then we're perceiving it as something else.
01:12:42
Speaker
I don't know I have a hard time just because recently I would say within the past two years we are seeing so because publishing is so accessible now like yeah anyone can hit publish which is a great thing because we've discovered so many authors that yeah otherwise wouldn't be able to publish but it's a bad thing because we've discovered so many authors who should have never published in the first place and um I think ah you we're getting a lot of people that are writing because they want to say they've written a book and they know they're looking at what sells and then they're going for anything. That's how you end up with like these tropes. outally yeah I think if they if you really you can tell I don't know. It's just a feeling. And when you're reading the story, if someone is doing this because they it was a story that they needed to tell or they were like,
01:13:24
Speaker
You know what will sell kind of going back to brainy saying that author like small towns really in right now So I'm gonna put this in this yeah, town and they know nothing about small town They didn't do a look of research like the characters don't match like that is when I become very very frustrated Yeah, like the why is getting really lost like you're having a hard time figuring out like where they're coming from and Yeah, I think that like I always, it's like kind of in my nature to kind of be like, shouldn't we give them the benefit of doubt, maybe they were really trying.
01:13:50
Speaker
um yeah that is my i I'm the same way. here I'm always like, I'm like trying to like, think they they tried really hard. yeah It's not so hard to write that many books a year, like if you're releasing two books a year. And we've been talking about that ah previously on the podcast too, that I think like they it's okay to slow down. And then we've also seen the other side of it of like, if this is some people's livelihoods and they have to do that because they need to hit a certain level. Yeah, it's it's hard. It's like a double-edged sword, right? But also it's like, again, I have very little empathy. If you are someone who is able to quit your full-time job and
01:14:26
Speaker
publish full time. I think you can slow down a little bit. Like, I don't know, you know, like, there are so many authors that are working. Like, I think Kate Goldbeck still like is teaching at her university, you know, like, and she's still publishing on the side, like, where I think of fan fiction authors who are cranking out like 12 chapters a night, and then going up and like working as a nurse, like, I don't know. I think, yeah, if you have the money and the resources, like,
01:14:53
Speaker
You can go take a writing class at your local community college um and then become, well, yeah, from Kegel. um But like, you know, like, I don't know. i get That just frustrates me so much when I see people start to complain when they, I don't think a lot of authors recognize their own privilege when they complain about shit because they'll complain and then I'll look in their house and it's this gorgeous,
01:15:14
Speaker
4000 foot square home they have a husband that like is super rich and like they can do whatever they want and they're just complaining about nothing I'm not saying that like you can't have feelings you are gonna be frustrated of course, but it's like no your audience and know Yeah, and I do you think that's so hard to like put on to because like there are probably so many people who like perceive like the author's persona like what they put out there is great like you know some people can like it and so it's really hard to like know what's right on their end because we'll criticize them. But yeah. And authors have widely different audiences across the board. Like, yes. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
01:15:55
Speaker
read her anymore but when we first started i'm like oh like all the young girls are reading her hot girls you know you get to her facebook group It's a very different group of readers. Yeah. women in their feed Yeah. Or when we went to Brandi and I went to love in Vegas and we're thinking like, Oh, this is back in like 2022. It's going to be like, you know, people are age, like all the people we see on bookstagram. And there were people there that fit that category. It was mainly middle-aged white women.
01:16:20
Speaker
you know who had like these wagons of books and like you don't see them on like I don't see them on bookstagram you know unless they're like on a different part of bookstagram yeah so it's like that's a good point like there are people that actually probably love this and like they're hitting their audience I just was not their intended audience um I have to like sometimes like take a step back but I'm like oh I get so frustrated I will say maybe that's a hot take that I didn't write down that maybe is for all of us is like, not every book is for everyone. And like, I think it's okay to say that I didn't like this book, but like, it wasn't for you. Yeah. I mean, there's some books that's like, yeah, they're bad. But I loved it. Like I had a great time. Like this was a two star read 1000% five star experience. Yeah. Yeah.
01:17:07
Speaker
And I would never rate it either way online because I don't want to say it was two stars but I don't want to give it five stars because I feel like that you would misjudge my taste. Yeah, it's it's so interesting thinking about how like Like what you're talking about, Kendra, when we go on Facebook groups or or what have you, seeing just like the, not the other side, but you know, just like a different facet of the readers. Cause we only see like the tiniest, tiniest portion. And and is and it biggest opening in the world yeah and yeah think it's huge, but no, we're actually like. you know, probably 2%, you know, see if even that probably less, you know, like it's, it's, it's kind of wild to think about how, how big some of these things are.
Publishing Audience and Readership
01:17:50
Speaker
We talked about this idea and upon him young when she was on the podcast about how
01:17:55
Speaker
right when the next series got traditionally published, she just got an influx of regular accounts following her author account. And she's like, it was so interesting because up until that point, the majority of my following was people on Bookstagram, like people who read my books or like found me through Bookstagram, a lot, a lot, a lot of book accounts.
01:18:13
Speaker
And she's like, and then when it becomes became traditionally published, I just had like a ton of people who were just like finding my books in Walmart and Barnes and Noble who were like, oh, I'll go follow this author to see more information about them, which is, it's cool. Yeah. about And I, that's what I love about like authors who are going from like indie to traditionally published. Cause like you kind of want to protect them a little bit. You're like, I found you. This is i you were free on KU. And now I have to buy you in Barnes and Noble. And it's both really exciting.
01:18:42
Speaker
Because for them, like they're like growing their audience, and it's also the kind of thing of... like No, that's mine. Yeah. Can we wrap up our conversation with talking about our favorite part of the book community, which was sharing like what it has been like the best thing about joining the book community? Because hot takes are so fun. We love chatting about them, and it's so fun to talk about other people who are in them. I do feel a little bit bad that like a lot of this has skewed negative, because but i mean like hot takes barely are like
01:19:14
Speaker
positive. We're still around. That's what like, like, we're still around. There's something still keeping us here. So like, yeah, the goods still outweighs the shit. that i can't stand Yeah, yeah. I mean, I feel like we're all gonna say like a similar answer, right? For what's the best part?
01:19:28
Speaker
Oh, I was going to try and come up with something different just because we've all said the same thing.
01:19:35
Speaker
but yeah yeah And like that's, it's like becoming friends with y'all.
Positive Experiences in Book Community
01:19:40
Speaker
It's like the hot take voice memos that we can exchange rather than forth when we want to find a book that is not for us and it was not for you either. And so we can like converse about it.
01:19:52
Speaker
passionately. But I think I like just how many books I would not have known about if I was not on Bookstagram because like we do have to like step back and touch grass a little bit and recognize there are standard readers who go to Barnes & Noble, pick a book, and then they never talk to anyone about it. They never engage with it online and that's it.
01:20:10
Speaker
um But we are a little bit drowning in the water over here, sometimes the sludge. But I think that, especially from y'all, I have gotten such good book recommendations. um I think I read Divine Rivals because of Kayla. I read Slowdance because of Kendra.
01:20:27
Speaker
and Oh, Brandy, I didn't have one immediately ready for you. A book that you have recommended to me that my brain is like now blinking on. I'm so sorry. I do take a lot of bookwax from Brandy and I'll make a whole post about it later. There's just so many. But it's like, Oh, what's that Elizabeth O'Bork book?
01:20:49
Speaker
the The devil, uh, the devil, you know? Yeah. the The lawyers. Yes. I listened to that. There you go. There we go. I got it. Um, but it's also because I can like associate books that I have read with people and like how grateful I am that I have like been introduced to that book and then like ran away with either their backlist or like I learned other books from them. So I think that that's really fun because a lot of people ask me where I get my book recs from or like how I find books and it's through the bookish community.
01:21:20
Speaker
yeah I mean, for me, like I have said before, in my general vicinity, I don't really have like that many people that I regularly talk to. as friends yeah um But yeah, I mean, not to be cliche and yeah, friendship, obviously like that's a big thing, but like it truly has like my life is a lot more full I guess because of it if that makes sense like I have regular communication with people that live you know on the opposite side of the country super far away you know I and like yeah it has opened me up like you said Haley to a lot of books that I would probably never pick genres that I didn't think that I would really like that much and you know my
01:22:07
Speaker
day now instead of me even though I do scroll you know I'm guilty of a hour two hour long scroll like like we all are but you know I have other things that I do now I have other hobbies that I miss crochet you know well yeah I mean crochet I wanted something to do with when I was listening to my audiobooks and so like you know I picked up crochet because like I had done it in the past but I kind of Let go of it and then with Brandy's crochet like she kind of inspired me to pick it back up again So, you know like different things like that and without Brandy in my life without the biggest community I don't know if that would have ever happened, you know So it's just like a lot of a lot of dominos that I think Led to my life being a lot more full today than it was several years ago.
Creative Inspiration from Books
01:22:47
Speaker
So yeah Yeah, I would agree like my life is ten times more full but I also just like
01:22:55
Speaker
I don't know. I really love like um the friendship, whatever, but so this oneever whatever. But I like my favorite part is like talking just like about books and about characters. And like I just love stories so much. And like I went to school. I thought I was going to like work in TV and like I'm still in a creative field somehow, but I get to like satisfy that part of my brain still constantly. And like I've gotten so many opportunities that I probably never would have without like clicking upload on TikTok a few years ago. So for that, I'm like really grateful because I've met so many cool people. I've been able to do so many cool things. And like I still have a life that i I really like.
01:23:43
Speaker
Yeah, beyond the friendships for me, which i have just been the most valuable thing. um from the community, I would say a creative outlet has been the biggest part for me because I just have always, always, always been a crafty gal. I love crafts and I love doing things. Even like just taking pictures of books that look pretty to me is really fulfilling, but also like my book journal has been like a huge source of comfort for me um because I can just like put on an audio book and spend hours working on my book journal.
01:24:17
Speaker
so i just love that I get to tie books into so many other things that I love to do. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, I love all of this. And I feel like despite all the negative that has occurred here, I feel like ending on this is like such a good point because like I love what Kayla was saying about like it just kind of expands you. And I feel like finding any sort of community like the book community where it's like, it's not just about making friends, but it's like about what it like grows inside of you is like you meet people who have similar interests and like,
01:24:51
Speaker
who like to talk about stories as much as you do and who like have similar like cozy hobbies that like it like ignite something in you that makes you feel more comfortable to be that version of yourself even if you don't have that kind of person around you which is maybe stifled that part of you that's waiting to get out I think being a part of the bookish community can expand the real version of you that you want to be because you can see it in other people and it'll make it bloom within you too. Yeah and I mean like having books was the avenue you know to making
01:25:25
Speaker
you know, more friends and and doing that. But like, yeah, brain and can we don't just talk about books. We talk about yeah daily daily stuff. yeah Yeah. Yeah. Maybe too much. yeah yeah work about Yeah. We talk about just like, what did you do today? Tell me about your day. You know, like just like random stuff. I'm going to go to Target right now. I'm going to pick up yeah mascara because I'm out. You know, like.
01:25:46
Speaker
Just like random stuff that we'll just like talk about throughout the day. It's not just books, books was just the the ticket to get in. Yeah, so if you're like in the bookish community and you're feeling really burnt out from it or you're feeling like your comparison or competing, I think just like go back to your why you started and like go back to that like little kid in you that loved to read so much and like start from there again maybe.
01:26:10
Speaker
Yeah, and I think even if you start it from a reason that you no longer like, no longer like or enjoy, you can always like start over again. like I've seen people wipe their accounts completely and start from zero, or just start posting the content that they like think is easier to make or more fulfilling for them. And like no one really cares. No one is thinking about you as much as you think about yourself. Yeah, we did it with our podcast. like yeah if You've been here from the beginning. We used to have a different format, and now we've changed it. And we like even restarted with like our Instagram. like Kayla hated our Instagram and was like, this is ugly. No, we just, we just, it's just so easy to put stuff on Kayla. Like we do love her very, very much. There wasn't any Kayla bullying today. I love that when she asked. so bring it up we're almost done no no no no No, I wanted to say.
01:26:56
Speaker
When you said, is it too early for this? I thought you meant, is it too early for apple cider? I was like, oh my gosh, no, it's fall. But you were asking for permission if it was too early to drink that drink. And like halfway through, I realized that. And I wanted to be like, you drink that whenever the fuck you want to. Thank you, Haley. Yeah. Haley, I thought you were going to join in on the bullying. I thought that was the goal of it. You know, I thought about that when I was doing my makeup today. And I was like, no, I will not stand for that. What's the temperature outside, though?
Casual Book Discussions
01:27:21
Speaker
And you're drinking apple cider?
01:27:22
Speaker
None of your business. It's ice. It's sparkling. It's probably room temperature, mature isn't it? Now it is, unfortunately. It's still a little chilly down here at the bottom where there's some left. It's fine. It's fine. It's fine. See, you made it so easy. Yeah. Anyway, we get the comments a lot that this podcast and Haley, you mentioned you and Tara get those comments or those comments a lot that our podcasts feel like people joining into a friendship, which is so beautiful. And we love that it feels that way. And we hope that today with these conversations on Hot Takes, this was just a little vent sesh for you to hang in with us. Like, it's so necessary. And you know what? Sometimes it's fun. And doing it with your friends can be fun. So we hope today felt like a little vent sesh. But always remember, like Kendra said, why are you doing it? Why are you here? Like Hailey said.
01:28:12
Speaker
so Thank you so much, Hailey, for joining us today. You guys, like we said at the top of the episode, you can find Hailey on Gilmore to say and Gilmore to read wherever you get your podcasts.
Managing Social Accounts as a Creator
01:28:26
Speaker
Make sure you also check us out on social media and their social media. What's your guys' is social media? Tell us, tell the world. At Gilmore to say podcasts, also at Gilmore to read. We have two because i I intend to post a lot more in there than I do, but You I'm, I'm curious, Haley, you mentioned like, Oh, I didn't, I didn't want another social account. How many accounts do you have? Like switching between on your Instagram, like six or seven or something like that. but She's counting on her fingers. She's like, Oh my gosh, there's so many. Well, just on Instagram, I switched between five.
01:28:59
Speaker
And then on TikTok, I switch between three. And then on YouTube, I just switch between two. Wow. And I just don't touch threads. There you go. That's fine. You don't need to touch it. Yeah. So it's a lot of content creating, which doesn't even bring into the whole podcast of it all. Yeah, sometimes I'm not posting on my bookstagram, which is at Haley's.house, but I'm always on the stories. I'm always alert to you. You are a great story. If I see your stories, I'm always going to watch them all the way through. I just love them. Yeah, you're a good follow. Thank you. Thank you so much. So go find her there. But thank you so much for having me. Thanks for being here, Haley. Thank you. It was so fun. It was so much fun. Love it.
01:29:46
Speaker
If you enjoyed our conversation today or you just enjoy the podcast in general, we would really appreciate a five star review. Wherever you listen to your podcast, it means a lot to us and go get us a follow at bring your own. See you guys later.