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Democracy Under Threat? The Hidden Toll on Local Election Candidates
41 Plays1 month ago
"Put your name up on Facebook with the name of your party—Reform UK—and suddenly you’re a jackbooty, brownshirt, swastika-wearing member of the Nazi party.”
That's what one contributor said to our research team for this year's local elections. As part of Democracy Volunteers election observation for the 2025 English local elections the team surveyed candidates of all parties to find out their experiences out campaigning and the threats, abuse and challenges they faced.
In this episode Jason McKenna interviews the Director of Democracy Volunteers, Dr John Ault, and report researcher, Matt Davis, to find out more about the report that was issued today. Entitled 'Threat to Candidates 2025' it shows the concerning rise of threats and violence towards local election candidates.
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Transcript
Introduction and Overview
00:00:08
Speaker
Are threats becoming the norm for political candidates? Is there increasing abusive and violent rhetoric? Well, today, Democracy Volunteers released the Threats to Candidates report, and we will be discussing this with Matt and John.
00:00:23
Speaker
The episode will explore the human cost for those standing for election, what authorities are doing, and what needs to change. But this is also an analysis of the big report that we have on our website, so please check out the analysis over.
00:00:37
Speaker
on democracyvolunteers.org.
Threats in Elections
00:00:40
Speaker
This is the Observations Podcast and I'm your host Jason McKenna. So let's talk through the report then. um First of all, how was it conducted and what are the main highlights?
00:00:51
Speaker
Well, we in 2024 at the Westminster General Election we discovered as part of our work that parliamentary candidates were getting lots of threats, challenges, potential violence and harassment and online abuse.
00:01:08
Speaker
And i think most people think that the challenge is limited to people who are standing for Parliament. And actually, we wanted to find out if it also affected candidates standing for local elections.
00:01:23
Speaker
um And these elections matter, obviously. So what we did was we talked to Democracy Club, which is an organisation, perhaps no way to ever type in your postcode into a ah their website. It'll tell you where your local polling station is. That's the sort of work they do.
00:01:38
Speaker
But they also collect email addresses of candidates. So we borrowed those emails with their approval and we sent, with the University of Manchester, an email to every candidate that supplied an email.
00:01:50
Speaker
And about 340 or so responded to the survey. And this is the data we've got, and hopefully people will find it interesting.
00:02:03
Speaker
Yeah, yeah. I mean, I'd like to specifically kind and ah make the point that by emphasising local candidates with this report, we are moving away from what a lot of previous literature has gone into.
00:02:16
Speaker
um So there has been... um quite a lot of literature on threats to sitting MPs and but i some to candidates to become MPs. But there is, it's quite scant in terms of the amount of evidence that looks at the abuse faced by local government
Impact on Local Candidates
00:02:35
Speaker
candidates in particular. And so I think it was very important for us to add this focus and these um set of local elections were a very good opportunity for us to be able to do that.
00:02:48
Speaker
In maybe a few words or a few sentences, I don't know how easy it is to summarise, but I'm going to throw this to you first, John. Why is this information so important? What is this kind of telling us about the health of British democracy?
00:03:03
Speaker
Well, i think the first thing is it's important that we realise that candidates matter in elections. It may be the statements of the obvious, but if people don't want to stand for elections, we won't end up with people representing us that are diverse and reflect the communities that they seek to represent and it's not just about things like personal safety um it's about making sure that there's proper democratic participation and representation i also think that one of the the things that i've noticed is that
00:03:37
Speaker
Threats aren't just things that happen to national politicians, although the high profile ones are. We all know the stories of the sad, I mean, assassinations, but murders of Joe Cox and David Amess, two members of parliament.
00:03:51
Speaker
I think quite a lot of the things that affect council candidates and councils themselves goes undetected, primarily because it just doesn't make national news, but it's something that affects them all the time.
00:04:02
Speaker
And it's commonplace. Our evidence suggests that 39% of local election candidates faced some challenge, threat or even violence during the local elections this year.
00:04:14
Speaker
So those were some interesting points to build upon. And actually, I do want to look more into this testimony side of it. You know, looking into the specifics of some of the abuse, there's some very strong and shocking testimonies given about what has been experienced.
00:04:30
Speaker
People have attempted to spit on me. This was probably six or seven times. Somebody said, I'm going to kill you. I walk past that door every day.
00:04:42
Speaker
We've had to get security. One person actually had a panic attack in a meeting and refuses to come anymore.
Normalization of Threats?
00:04:51
Speaker
So from those collection of quotes, John, is threatening behaviour now becoming the norm for people who want to stand in elections?
00:05:01
Speaker
No, i think is the simple answer to that. ah The evidence is that 61% of the candidates we surveyed didn't have problems. But I think at the fringes, there are increasing challenges to candidates that are bluntly unacceptable.
00:05:19
Speaker
As some of our respondents said, we've seen candidates spat at, people threatened with being killed, um and chased down the driveway.
00:05:30
Speaker
ah And some candidates, because they live in these communities, have to walk past those houses to go to work, go to to drop their kids off at school and so on. um And that's having an emotional impact on candidates.
00:05:44
Speaker
um You know, people having nightmares, panic attacks, um and obviously most emotional challenges, which are basically something that you shouldn't be expecting to happen when you stand for election.
00:05:58
Speaker
This mainly affects, though I think we need to look at actually, it may be preponderantly people who are women LGBTQ+, people from ethnic minorities, who are perhaps more likely to receive these problems, but actually numerically it probably is men who get most of the problems.
00:06:17
Speaker
but This is something where people say, oh, it's only people from minorities that have these problems. That simply isn't true. When we spoke to lots of candidates following the election, we discovered that white blokes in their 50s get just the same sorts of problems as other people do. so it's important that we appreciate that this is something that's affecting lots of candidates. But no, it's not the norm yet.
00:06:42
Speaker
Hopefully it never will be the norm. But it's something that we just have to keep assessing and making sure that it's not just something that is accepted as part of our democratic process.
00:06:55
Speaker
um And just building upon that, I want to kind of analyse maybe what you've said there. So is there a differentiation between the numbers? So maybe there's an equal amount of volume given to to all candidates, whether it's gendered or ethnic background.
00:07:10
Speaker
or as you said, they're LGBTQ plus, or is it that there might be the same amount for men, but for the kind of ah other ah individuals that you've chatted to, that the ah rhetoric was much stronger and maybe more abusive, more threatening to them?
00:07:28
Speaker
i don't think we can tell you the full answer to that because more work needs to be done and more data needs to be collected and more interviews need to happen. and ours is essentially a snapshot of the English local elections from this May.
00:07:42
Speaker
I think it's fair to say that whoever you are, if you're getting threatened when standing for election, whether you are from an ethnic minority or a woman, part of the LGBTQ plus community, or just anybody,
00:08:01
Speaker
it's not acceptable that you should have threats when you're just trying to represent your local community. These are people who quite often are just standing for election. They're trying to sort out the local planning problem.
00:08:16
Speaker
They're trying to sort out the potholes in their area. they're trying to get some speed humps for the local village. These aren't international issues where people have major discontent.
00:08:28
Speaker
They are issues which are very local, very specific, and we should be looking at why these things are happening in society where candidates are threatened.
Mental Health Impacts
00:08:39
Speaker
And so that's what we did.
00:08:42
Speaker
And the testimony also, you know, gives evidence that there are serious mental and physical health impacts on candidates. There is definitely a level of emotional burnout.
00:08:54
Speaker
I'd do it again, but not with the same enthusiasm. It gives me dreams, recurrent thoughts. I walk past that house and think about it once or twice a week.
00:09:05
Speaker
John, could you talk us a bit through more some of the the testimony that was given to you about the the kind of personal impact to these individuals that, again, is not reported in the media because it's not at the kind of parliamentary level. This is on the local level.
00:09:21
Speaker
Well, I think one of the things that's interesting about this is there's this presumption that this is all part of the rough and tumble of politics. What do you expect? Putting your head above the parapet, wanting to get paid to to represent people.
00:09:35
Speaker
You know, you get candidates told things like, I'm paying your wages, I should be allowed to do what I want. And think that completely misunderstands what candidates are trying to achieve.
00:09:48
Speaker
Yes, they're trying to get elected, but they're not trying to sort of you know change the world, they're trying to sort out local problems and I think an acceptance that you're going to be ill, upset, threatened, chased down someone's drive, spat at, these aren't things that I expect to happen in this country, these are things that are completely unacceptable.
00:10:15
Speaker
And yeah, i mean, it wouldn't have an emotional impact on you. Wouldn't it make you have sleepless nights? I think it's astonishing that when ma myself and Matt held these interviews, I think we both came away thinking, well, thank God people will stand for election because it takes someone bit tougher than me these days to do it.
00:10:35
Speaker
And that shouldn't be the case. Because if I think that, then by definition, only people who think they're tough enough will stand for elections. And that means that lots of people won't.
Influence of Internet and Media
00:10:45
Speaker
And as our data suggests, we when we asked candidates whether they knew other people who wouldn't stand because of because of the potential threats they'd receive in elections, we discovered that virtually half you said they knew somebody who wouldn't stand as a consequence.
00:11:03
Speaker
Now, I want to throw over to Matt now for a second, because what I find most interesting with this is it's a qualitative project matching up with so much quantitative data that there is out there. You know, we see so many reports, maybe daily, even I wouldn't say that's an exaggeration of abusive MPs, the data behind it, the stories of this person has been arrested for abusing this candidate or MP or politician.
00:11:29
Speaker
um So, Matt, do you think that this gives almost a humanising element to what is a very data heavy story and and actually bring it home that this is affecting real people and their real lives?
00:11:42
Speaker
Well, I think this this is a story where there is quite a lot, as you say, of quantitative data out there. um There is quite a lot of qualitative stories out there as well.
00:11:53
Speaker
But I think this report does a good job of marrying the two and kind of showing where the data matches with the lived experience, I think.
00:12:04
Speaker
Yeah, exactly. I completely agree with you. So let's move on to conspiracy theories and the impact of the internet, because that seems to be one of the prevailing stories with this report.
00:12:16
Speaker
And reading more into the revelation from candidates, it's clear to see the impact of conspiracies and misinformation. In fact, here are some really powerful quotes to highlight this.
00:12:28
Speaker
Put your name up on Facebook with the name of your party, Reform UK, and suddenly you're a Jack Booty brown shirt, swastika-wearing member of the Nazi party. Another one was that Kirstarmer is being controlled by Jewish people, part of a world domination agenda.
00:12:47
Speaker
One of my colleagues is an MP. He's been referred to as a paedophile protector, which is not threatening, but unsettling. So John, why is this happening now? You know, why haven't we seen this in the past?
00:13:01
Speaker
And where have these challenges emerged from? Well, negative campaigning is nothing new. Let's not delude ourselves about that. But I think what's concerning about some of the discussion that you hear candidates reporting in this survey and through the interviews we had, it's just some of the and I'm going to say some of the crazy ideas that people throw at candidates.
00:13:26
Speaker
one of the things that most surprised me is that people peddle things like you're trying to cover up pedophile rings. There's a worldwide Jewish conspiracy and Keir Starmer's in favor of it.
00:13:39
Speaker
that i mean yeah it's um It's unimaginable, some things that people are claiming candidates and politicians are doing.
00:13:51
Speaker
I think... What causes it is, I think we all just assume, especially people of my generation, it's, oh, it's the internet, what do you expect? And I think that misses the point.
00:14:03
Speaker
I think we all talk about people who are in these rabbit holes or whatever, you know, sitting in the basement at their computers, like you are at the moment, Jason, sitting there at their computers, you know, doing nothing else but looking at the internet.
00:14:19
Speaker
And I think that ignores... And so we all know that people are listening to media, which they agree with. You know, people who are left-wing listen to left-wing media, people who right-wing listen to right-wing media.
00:14:31
Speaker
And real media no longer has the same impacts it used to. And so I think it's because people are in these little echo chambers of people who agree with them.
00:14:43
Speaker
And... Some of the things that candidates are accused of is bewildering. And I think what's interesting is that the guy who can sort out the local potholes, sort out the local buses, ah agree to a planning application for that new housing estate, is not someone who has an awfully big impact on the conflict in Gaza or the policies of Mr Trump or all sorts of other things.
00:15:13
Speaker
You know, they have a very specific role And I understand that people don't necessarily vote on the issues that are pertinent locally. But the thought that my local councillor can stop the invasion of Gaza by Israel is delusional.
00:15:29
Speaker
And it's something which people will hurl at candidates on the doorstep. They'll hurl immigration at candidates on the doorstep. And it's worrying that people have such uncivilised and rude behaviour to someone who's actually just trying to represent them.
00:15:48
Speaker
I mean, one person in our survey actually said to a Liberal Democrat candidate, well, it's good you're not Labour because I'd murder you if you were.
00:15:57
Speaker
And you think, well, I don't believe that's true, that they would do that. But the fact that a candidate, even if a different party is told that by a voter, says that that person ought not to be on that doorstep because they're in danger, because people shouldn't have to put themselves in that position.
00:16:18
Speaker
And so where are they getting
Changing Public Discourse
00:16:20
Speaker
it from? Well, I think we think to some extent the internet, but I think it's also just public discourse has become so much more impolite and dangerous in the last few years.
00:16:31
Speaker
John, kind of adding to this, do you think that there's a misunderstanding of the remit of councillors and local politicians? clearly, clearly. But is it also maybe a bit that they're just a political person there? It doesn't matter who they are, but they're the voice of Labour. They're the voice of the Liberal Democrats and they're just the soundboard for it. Is that the issue? I completely agree. I think one of the things that is, you're all in it together.
00:16:57
Speaker
You're all the enemy of the people. I think it is concerning that that sort of attitude ah now is more prevalent than it was, certainly when I was younger, is that people no longer believe that politicians, from what I can tell and what this survey suggests, are able to solve the problems that they are faced with.
00:17:18
Speaker
um And that's, you know, we're an apolitical, non-partisan organisation, but you only have to look at turnout in elections to know that fewer people are engaged with the process.
00:17:29
Speaker
You only have to look at the discourse to understand that people are dissatisfied with politicians. So, yeah, I think it's a plague on all your houses ah from lots of people who are accosted on the doorstep by candidates. it's ah You're all in it together. You're all the same.
00:17:47
Speaker
And then they leave. And so nothing gets solved because people don't engage constructively with their representatives. And so on this area as well, would you postulate that there was a watershed moment that led to this real change in rhetoric?
00:18:03
Speaker
Was there, you know, maybe a key incident where you think, goodness me, that is where things hardened and got tougher for politicians, local and national? Well, I rarely try and postulate, Jason.
00:18:16
Speaker
I... i I think the honest answer to your question is, I don't know. And I think you're trying to very naughtily drag me into a political answer. So I'm going to avoid answering that question and say, that's perhaps one for politicians to answer and academics who research this more.
00:18:34
Speaker
But I think there are clearly some cleavage points in the last few years, which perhaps have led people to be more dissatisfied with politics. But I leave that to others to comment on what they are.
00:18:46
Speaker
Okay, so let's then bring it on to the background of the people doing this.
Survey Insights
00:18:51
Speaker
ah Matt, I want to, to ah you know, talk to you about what has the data shown about the demographic insights of the main instigators?
00:18:59
Speaker
Have we seen a particular profile of individual who's threatening candidates? As John has said, all candidates seem to have faced at least some aspect of a difficulty due to people with an animosity towards politics in general.
00:19:14
Speaker
um And then in terms of like the demographics wise, middle-aged to older white men have been mentioned and as have kind of younger people as well.
00:19:26
Speaker
Yeah, Matt's right. It's sort of partly issue based, you know, and and that's quite obvious that with, um, our techie people have done a very nice word cloud because actually we thought it was a very efficient way of of capturing the data.
00:19:41
Speaker
ah We could just put a list if what people wanted, but actually when you capture the data and put it in visual form, there are some very clear words that come out. And basically I'm all of them, white middle-aged men.
00:19:53
Speaker
um I still cling on to being middle-aged, Jason. And it's it's fair to say, that it's those people who are increasing the problem.
00:20:04
Speaker
Now, I don't know what their problem is, but the evidence is that, yep, left-wingers don't like right-wingers, right-wingers don't like left-wingers.
00:20:16
Speaker
That's not exactly a surprise. It's not exactly new that they don't like each other, but the tone of debate, the attitude that people deploy against people who disagree with them is is much more...
00:20:29
Speaker
impolite than it used to be. I'm being generous by calling it impolite. In some cases, it's just downright rude. It's vicious. It's basically lying.
00:20:41
Speaker
And why would anyone want stand for election? you know The answer is, it's white middle-aged men generally doing it. Lots of other people do it too. And in fact, I think it's fair say, Matt, that everybody identifies a group. And we're going...
00:20:57
Speaker
OK, so Liberal Democrats do it, Conservatives do it, Labour do it. Now, these aren't the party people doing it. People who are supporters of another group are becoming more entrenched with their attitudes towards other parties.
00:21:12
Speaker
And I think it's about, we need to get to a point where people understand that everyone's just trying their best. And you may not like them, but you can at least be polite to people.
00:21:25
Speaker
Whatever happened to sort of, you know, people, i um I'm low to quote Harry out of Kingsman, but manners maketh man. And I think that's exactly what I think. I mean, you know, get over it is what I think.
00:21:42
Speaker
um Just kind of building upon that, John, and great to see that you've got Kingsman quote in there. Yes, I got there. That's the highlight of the podcast thus far. But um in terms of it, then, would you say that maybe an analysis of what you've seen here is that in a very hyper connected world, you know, we are never been more ah easily available to one another.
00:22:05
Speaker
we're actually seeing a more concentration in ideas. These spheres of of influence, these spheres of thought are actually becoming harder to penetrate. I think I agree and completely disagree with you.
00:22:18
Speaker
i I think people are more accessible, but they're also more anonymous. One of the things that lots of candidates said to us, the anonymity of Facebook groups,
00:22:31
Speaker
where people can not have their name and they can just comment on things is an incredibly undermining and dangerous part of social media. Yeah, we're more connected, but that also means you can do people damage more easily without anyone knowing who you are.
00:22:49
Speaker
You know, if someone doesn't like you on the doorstep, they can yeah they can't tell you to leave their property. But when you're on the internet and you're just the local guy standing for election,
00:23:00
Speaker
and you want to be in touch with that local community, of trying to save the village hall, or something similar, which is hardly the most contentious issue in the world, and you're getting abusive language, threats, about something which most people would think is a fairly simple issue, I think most people would think, well, what's the point?
00:23:25
Speaker
And just repeat your question, cause I think there's something else I can't remember what wanted to say. So um I was saying in a hyper-connected world, do you think that these kind of filter bubbles that we live in are becoming harder to penetrate? with We're more isolated from one another. and our thought Well, before I answer the question, ah explain what a filter bubble is to the old people like me, because I'm not convinced convinced to know what a filter bubble is.
00:23:49
Speaker
So the the algorithms that we deal with on social media and um you know all that kind of advanced technology, it works in a way so that we actually see things that we will respond to. And we also kind of now even physically interact with individuals whose ideas mostly agree with us. And um would you say that that has become more of an apparent problem? Because maybe years ago, we were forced to interact with one another in a real world situation that actually deal with people who had differing ideas?
00:24:22
Speaker
Well, the amount of people I almost walk into on the street, looking at their phones, I think it's quite clear that people are addicted to technology. But that's just a personal bugbear of mine. I think You're absolutely right.
00:24:36
Speaker
I think that the problem is if we believe and accept the concept of a social media influencer and that person has influenced despite no skill set, no knowledge, no ability um and no understanding of politics, then don't be surprised if debate and discussion in politics is debased and undermined.
00:25:03
Speaker
It's a complicated business, politics, and elections to get those people elected are equally complicated. And there are lots of reasons people vote.
00:25:14
Speaker
But one shouldn't be that you're down, I think basically talking the rabbit holes I was talking about, where you just have people agreeing with you because the algorithms decided that you agree with them.
00:25:26
Speaker
Well, i mean when when I did my academic career, there was something called the Socratic method, where you debated based on different arguments and you took up counter opinions to your own to understand why other people thought them.
00:25:44
Speaker
I think that's a bit outdated. I don't think people think or educate like that anymore. I think they think this is my opinion and you've just got to like it or lump it. Well, the world's more complicated than that, isn't it?
00:25:57
Speaker
And I think people need to understand that. And I think people standing for election do understand that. But I think quite a lot of voters increasingly, because of the things you're talking about, are less engaged and less willing to engage with those people who seek to represent them.
00:26:14
Speaker
John, you used the word there, debased. Now, I don't want to overstep the mark here, but would you say that online platforms have even gone further than that and become weaponized for abuse?
00:26:27
Speaker
Well, I don't know quite what that phrase means, but yes, because I think the anonymity of the sniper who can take you out from 500 meters away gives people the capacity on the internet to say things, and there's absolutely no consequences.
00:26:42
Speaker
mean, some of the things that people write on these Facebook groups, or Nextdoor is another one that was mentioned by our contributors, is they're all anonymous. You can say what you want, and therefore laws of libel just can't be can't function, because people can't essentially come back at you, because people can just say what they want.
00:27:07
Speaker
And I think that's... unacceptable. You know, if you've got an accuser, you should be able to face them and in a reasonable discussion explain why you're not part of the worldwide Jewish conspiracy, why you're not allowing the boats across the channel.
00:27:25
Speaker
Whatever those small issues are, though they're very important issues, aren't things that most people standing for election can do anything about.
00:27:35
Speaker
They're there to try and represent local people. And I think The problem with what you're calling the debasement of politics is we're going to end up with people not doing it.
00:27:47
Speaker
And I want to to bring Matt in once again here, maybe talking about a bit of the data and also looking again once at that testimony.
Safety Measures for Candidates
00:27:56
Speaker
we've We've talked a lot here about online abuse and the the data and things behind that, but how much was this abuse also seen in person? what Was there any data or or could you just give an insight into what the testimony kind of said about that?
00:28:10
Speaker
From the testimony, we are either they experienced it in person or somebody they knew did, and that was true, I think, everybody that we spoke to. And so it's quite a common occurrence, but also in our data it shows that abuse isn't just online it is and very much does exist out there in the real world as well.
00:28:32
Speaker
Whether it's been spurred on by kind of online discussions beforehand is is another matter, but it definitely then comes round and is out there in the real world.
00:28:45
Speaker
So let's analyze some of the responses then, because this has affected the real world as well. and We've seen that candidates have had to change their habits. So first of all, John, what has the response been from candidates almost to protect themselves?
00:29:02
Speaker
Well, I think Operation Ford, let's start there, ah that's been launched by the police ah to attempt to give politicians a method by which they can report the police, by which they can receive advice from the police, is a very welcome step to try and assist candidates in making sure they can be safer.
00:29:25
Speaker
But quite a lot of the candidates who've responded to our survey suggest is that they've received no support at all. Some receive it informally from friends, colleagues, other candidates who perhaps done it before.
00:29:38
Speaker
Others receive it from the local council because some of them are very sensibly offered support and training or at least a briefing on how to deal with these threats. But I think a lot of it's just down to common sense, isn't it?
00:29:52
Speaker
ah ah you Would you go canvassing in a street with no lights in it? um Probably not. Would you go out canvassing on your own? These are things that candidates are automatically doing where they make sure a team go out. So there's people within, you know, that I line who can keep an eye on them and make sure they're okay.
00:30:12
Speaker
I also think one of the things that, is quite often overlooked these days is that once upon a time um you had to put down your domestic address as to where you were a candidate where you live sorry and that obviously in some cases people want to you know if you stand in your local community you want people to know that you're in your local community it's it's a good thing for you to represent your area at least you know lots of people think so but if you've got to put down addresses address in the ex-constituency Well, that doesn't mean anything, does it?
00:30:45
Speaker
So I think something's got to be... Lots of candidates now do that, where they don't put down their home address, which I think is a great shame. People should know who their local candidates are. They should be able to go and knock on the door and talk to about the local issues.
00:30:58
Speaker
But I also think the other thing is lots of candidates have said in the survey that they're less likely to go to some public meetings. They're less likely to go to them because they're going to receive abuse.
00:31:11
Speaker
and to the extent that some have told us that they've actually excluded people from things like council but council meetings or parish council meetings because there's so much abuse and so much challenge that they can't actually get the business of the council done.
00:31:27
Speaker
And so I think that's a problem when people also use their um right to comment protest to an extent where it undermines the legitimacy of the people who've actually been elected. so I think we have to look at more ways to protect them and things like Operation Ford needs to be rolled out, the data needs to be collected to see who's responded to it.
00:31:49
Speaker
And we need to make sure that in future people have ah perhaps so an online way of actually logging any concerns they have, so that but not as live necessarily, but ah they can essentially record that with evidence loaded perhaps, where the authorities know the levels of this abuse is going on. Because I think It goes underreported.
00:32:11
Speaker
Some people are tougher than other people. Some people think it's a sign of weakness to report ah these challenges because perhaps they themselves think it's part of the rough and tumble of politics.
00:32:23
Speaker
But everyone should have access this process. Everyone should be allowed to stand for election. So I think everyone should be able to live in the knowledge that stand for election is not something where they're going to get threatened, ah spat on, threatened with death.
00:32:39
Speaker
These are things that no one should have to do, especially people who are trying to support their local community. So lots of people have put things in place to try and protect themselves. But I don't think it's the end of the road. We need to look more at making sure that things like Operation Ford are improved and built on.
00:32:59
Speaker
Yeah, i'd I'd like to to open that out a little bit more. And you you spoke... briefly on that there, John. But in terms of it, do you think that one of the issues is that there's no uniform response to the issues across the country? It's kind of down to each council.
00:33:13
Speaker
And like you said there, often it's just down to the individual. Do you think that there needs to be a universal scheme that everybody is included in special training? As you said, there may be online access.
00:33:25
Speaker
Is that the the next kind of step that needs to be brought in? Well, one of the recommendations, we've not gone to the recommendations of report yet, but one of them is that we want see a national candidate security unit, which actually records this sort of information. And ah said, Operation Ford's an important part of this, and it's something that councils can give each candidate a contact number for them to contact. but As you'll see from some of the longer quotations in the report, although candidates have sometimes contacted the police or the party or the council, responses aren't necessarily as rigorous or as helpful as they could be.
00:34:04
Speaker
Candidates get sympathy, but I think there's still an institutional challenge of making people realise that elections and candidates are not fair game for threats and violence.
00:34:17
Speaker
You know, we need a more civilised debate. And I think we need to make sure that, yeah, there's a more constructive and national process of making sure that these things are recorded and dealt with.
00:34:31
Speaker
And as you said there, the report has some amazing, insightful quotes, which are often quite upsetting as well. but They are. I'm just going to throw it to two more that are really useful for describing the situation that you have given insights into there, John.
00:34:48
Speaker
I've asked a number of times, who is my officer that I need to report incidents to? And I've had no response. We always have at least two of us present when cameras sing, trying to keep each other in line of sight.
00:35:04
Speaker
So finally, we're heading on to the resolutions and hopefully there's a bit of positivity ah as we get onto this section here. From what we've discussed, there seems a lot of work to do.
00:35:14
Speaker
I don't know how much ah positivity there is around it though, because we have 10 recommendations. I'm gonna throw it to you first though, Matt. um With that, would you say that there's a priority change that you believe that should happen first?
00:35:29
Speaker
It's difficult to say really as to what the highest priority would be, if I'm being honest. I'd hesitate to kind of prioritise them myself. and I can help by prioritising if you want, Jason.
00:35:41
Speaker
Yes, I was going to give it to you as well, John, because I think it's an important question to both of you. What would your priority be? Where should we start? We've got 10 recommendations, so I don't think we should sit here going into all of them. Please do read the report.
00:35:54
Speaker
I think some of the suggestions we've made are hopefully ones that can be accepted by people like the Electoral Commission, by councils and by government generally. I think... no all is not lost the fact that people are still willing stand for election despite the challenges the fact that 61 of the respondents said they'd not had any challenges but at least that's at the point where they filled in the survey bearing where we sent it out three times with three weeks to go two weeks to go and a few days after the election because we're conscious that candidates are busy during this period
00:36:28
Speaker
um I think it's not the end of the road for democracy or elections, but we've got to be conscious that this is excluding certain people from
Policy and Support Recommendations
00:36:37
Speaker
standing. So yeah, we need one, a sort of national security unit to help candidates to make sure they can record um problems, but also that can be dealt with nationally.
00:36:49
Speaker
We need to make sure that candidates receive training on how to deal with that. Now that can come from their party, It can come from the council, it can come from government, it can just be documentary.
00:37:01
Speaker
But it there needs to be something that explains to candidates how to keep safe. And also Edinburgh Council, as Matt discovers the report, has actually allowed candidates to be issued with personal alarm systems because they allow it for people who work on their own for the council, or people who go out on outreach work.
00:37:20
Speaker
But that's the same for people who stand for elections, so they also do that in Edinburgh. We need to also... Social media. One of the big challenges and debates, not just within the UK but internationally, is the influence of social media and how free speech is sometimes curtailed or arguably curtailed when people try and regulate that space.
00:37:46
Speaker
Now, free speech, you won't get me saying it's a bad idea, I'm in favour of free speech. But what I'm not in favour of is what the Human Rights Act of 1998 says, which is, you can't just say what you like without there being any consequences.
00:38:03
Speaker
And social media needs to understand that different countries' laws are different to each other. And free speech in one country may not be in another country. And we've got to be conscious that inciting to violence, terrorism, undermining the state are things that are not allowed under free speech in our country. And therefore, social media...
00:38:24
Speaker
is responsible for making sure that it gets its house in order on this as well. So there needs to be work done between government, probably government and the Electoral Commission and social media platforms to try and make sure that less of this ah problems, this abuse happens online.
00:38:44
Speaker
ah I think we've also got to look at, um increasingly we know these days that mental health is a much bigger issue, perhaps not a bigger issue, but a more an issue that more people are aware of than they used to be.
00:38:58
Speaker
And as you said, one of the quotes that we've put forward is that people are nightmares, people are panic attacks, people are concerned about their personal safety. You know, one of the candidates who we spoke to in person said the person who threatened to kill them, they have to walk past their house and on their way to work.
00:39:22
Speaker
And you think, well, that must make you feel you're in danger. So that person said to us, actually, you know, we need some assistance for candidates and that should probably be formalised by councils. But I think also the parties have a big role to play in that, because if so if you want someone to stand for election for, you've got to give them the support, not just the bits of paper to put through the letterbox, not just the phone calls, not just the websites.
00:39:46
Speaker
You've also got to give them that personal support as well. And finally, though there are five more, we've got to make sure that candidates are more aware of our operation forward because it is a really good idea and one which, if more people knew about it and more people engaged with it, would give candidates greater capacity to be protected in the challenging situation they find themselves. So they're the five I've picked out, but there are plenty more for people to read about.
00:40:14
Speaker
Again, to to kind of summarise and finish off, I'm going hand it to both of you. What the next steps? Yep, the report is going to the Electoral Commission, to all those people who said they wanted a copy of it, bearing in mind we consulted MPs, candidates, and all sorts of people. They'll be getting a copy. We'll be sending it a copy to the relevant minister, which is Jess Phillips.
00:40:37
Speaker
ah And so, yeah, it'll be out there. um Would you like me to make a few final comments, Jason? Absolutely, John. um I think we've got to be aware. I mean, we've all had bullies at school.
00:40:51
Speaker
And we need not to accept that bullies are allowed to rule the playground. If we allow this sort of intimidation to become normalised, we'll end up with people who are less representative to society standing for election.
00:41:06
Speaker
And that's, let's be honest, probably one of the primary motivations behind the stuff we're talking about. So it's important that people realise that. The second thing is,
00:41:19
Speaker
We need people to actually encourage people. but you know When we spoke to candidates, I made sure that at the end of every conversation, said, thanks everything for everything you're doing.
00:41:29
Speaker
you know Best of luck. I hope it goes well if they were elected or I hope you find something to do if they weren't. Because these people actually want to contribute to their local community. I think we should have respect and admire that.
00:41:42
Speaker
And I think we should be more conscious of saying that to people because being nice costs nothing, I was told when I was a kid. And so I think we should make sure that people should go to council meetings and see what their council saying.
00:41:56
Speaker
Now, I may be being ah an utter optimist, but surely that's what elections and politics is all about, about changing the world for the better. But the answer, very simple one, is share our report.
00:42:09
Speaker
As we've talked quite a lot about social media, it can be used for positive things as
Final Thoughts and Conclusion
00:42:14
Speaker
well. So why not put the link on your LinkedIn, your Facebook or whatever website you choose to as your your personal favourite and try and get your friends and and colleagues to look at it because I think we need a more civilised debate in elections and that's why we've produced this report.
00:42:32
Speaker
again, social media might be the ah the answer to social media's problem. And and just ah one of your other points, John, I don't know if you want to talk about it again, but you seem to be echoing that old school values are the way forward. Ironically, you know, you talked about the Socratic method, you talked about ah beliefs in, you know, ah being kind to to individuals. Do you think that that is what we need to go back to a few decades ago, where these values were still in place?
00:43:01
Speaker
I think Socrates is more than a few decades. Yes. More in the millennia than the other centuries than the um No.
00:43:12
Speaker
I think for me to say, come on, you young people, sort yourselves out, is is not it. Because actually it's people my age doing it. People who look like me doing it.
00:43:23
Speaker
So I think those people should know better by now that banners cost nothing. ah No, I think old-fashioned values is too strong a term. I think just common decency.
00:43:37
Speaker
Treat such to others as you will be treated yourselves. I think I'm quoting somebody there. I can't remember who. But I think that's it. We need a more civilised, constructive debate.
00:43:49
Speaker
And that's what I think our report indicates. People do want to stand for election. Lots of people don't have these problems, but those that do have serious problems as a consequence. So we need to make sure they're supported because elections are about representing people and we need the right people, i.e. everybody, to be able to represent them.
00:44:14
Speaker
So to end, as you said there, John, with every interview that you did, you thanked the people involved. So i'm going to thank you both today. So first of all, Matt, thank you so much for coming on to the podcast today.
00:44:26
Speaker
Thanks for having me on. And the same to you, John. And also, thank you to both of you for the fabulous work that you've done into this report. It is really insightful. And, you know, just from my own opinion as well, I've i've had a look, I've had a look at the graphs and they They're absolutely brilliant in illustrating a lot of these points. But remember, please go on to democracyvolunteers.org for the full report. It's all on there and it gives more insight than we were just able to here and now. But also you can draw your own conclusions from it.
00:44:57
Speaker
Also subscribe to the YouTube channel, as we said before. But I'll say it again. We've got so much good content on here that is already there, but also coming up. in the near future. So that's a goodbye from all of us here from the Observations Podcast.