Become a Creator today!Start creating today - Share your story with the world!
Start for free
00:00:00
00:00:01
Leadership Is a Contact Sport: How to Stop Avoiding the Tough Stuff
24 Plays4 days ago
Andy Edwards, behavioural psychologist and creator of RELATIONOMICS, joins me to talk about why relationships drive results—and what to do when they’re off.
We cover how to spot the hidden signs of misalignment, why most 1:1s aren’t good enough, and the simple fix that changes everything. Expect real stories, plain speaking, and practical tools you can use tomorrow.
Key Takeaways
- Why ‘my door’s always open’ misses the point
- 7 leadership fails (and how to avoid them)
- The one habit that makes the biggest difference
- How to give feedback without fluff
- What to do when your team says nothing - but something’s off
Find Andy Edwards here:
https://www.andyedwardsthespeaker.com/
Curious where your team relationships might be holding back results? Take the High Performing Team Scorecard and get a clear view in under 5 minutes, with a personalised report on how to improve things fast.
Recommended
Transcript
Introduction to Leadership Reflection
00:00:00
Speaker
If you've got a problem with a team, look in the mirror and say, what is it that I'm not doing? What is it that I am doing? What is it that I could be doing better? Because the worst answer you could possibly give is I will lead them better when they are better behaved.
00:00:13
Speaker
You've got to get them to want to follow you by your behavior, which is the true nature of leading by example.
Meet Corinne Hines and the Podcast's Purpose
00:00:23
Speaker
Welcome to the show. I'm Corinne Hines, and this is the Visible Leader Podcast.
00:00:30
Speaker
I've been coaching leaders and teams for over a decade now, and I am completely obsessed with the art and science of leading effectively. So together with my guests, I get under the surface of topics like how to have a high performance conversation, the myths of resilience, and how to get out of meeting gridlock, all while making sure you get tips and ideas that you can implement straight away.
00:01:02
Speaker
Leadership is a contact sport, but I think some people are just not sure on the rules. That's why they end up saying, my door is always open, instead of stepping over the threshold themselves and checking in with their people.
The Importance of Work Relationships
00:01:20
Speaker
And if you think good relationships is a nice-to-have, research by the CMI showed that nearly 30% of their respondents had left a job because of a bad working relationship with their boss.
00:01:35
Speaker
I think it's all about valuing other humans and their contribution, and I'm pretty sure my guest today would agree. He's Andy Edwards, the creator of Relationomics, and he helps businesses leverage relationships for better results.
00:01:55
Speaker
He's a behavioral psychologist, an international speaker, and he shares a practical model of improving workplace relationships. He believes that relationships are the true currency of business.
Andy Edwards on Relationomics and Relationships
00:02:08
Speaker
And I had a great time talking to him. And I think you're going to really enjoy this episode. a oh Welcome to the show, Andy.
00:02:20
Speaker
Thanks very much for having me. Really good to be here. So we are talking about the true currency of business, not really being money, but being relationships.
00:02:34
Speaker
Andy, when have you had a relationship in a work context that has been horrific?
00:02:45
Speaker
ah Sometimes we learn best from experiencing the worst possible scenario. I've got to be careful that so as not to identify anybody here, but it was a long time ago and I was working in hospitality, working in marketing business development for a boutique hotel.
00:03:03
Speaker
And the owner there was possibly... No, definitely. The worst manager leader you could possibly imagine.
Lessons from a Toxic Work Environment
00:03:13
Speaker
So it was very easy to watch what he was doing. And in fact, his co-director. Watch what they were doing and literally make sure that in the future you would do the opposite.
00:03:26
Speaker
I don't know if you remember that game back in the 1970s called Mastermind, when you had to guess the pegs of your opponent. Well, a really good idea was to get it all wrong first so that you knew exactly what not to do next.
00:03:38
Speaker
And that was probably the worst leader subordinate relationship I've ever had because, boy, did he let us know we were subordinates.
Handling Power Dynamics and Responsibility
00:03:46
Speaker
Oh, yeah. Subordinates is a nice way of phrasing that word. You don't hear subordinates so often these days, thank God.
00:03:56
Speaker
it's sometimes difficult to know what word to use because ah do you use direct report. I use a report. But I do have people I work with who who really hate the thought that there's any...
00:04:10
Speaker
hierarchy really So they want to remove that from it. And then you kind of end up getting a little bit stumble and fumble a bit with it because, ah you know, I wanted to talk later about the power dynamic, but there is a power dynamic in the mix.
00:04:24
Speaker
I think there should be. And I think part of that is to recognize that and not to not to lean into the power element of that dynamic, but lean into the authority of that dynamic and the resourcing that you are able to supply to the other person.
00:04:38
Speaker
So it would be either the team member for me, Out of stretch, colleague, although that, again, levels things out a little. I quite often use, certainly in my training courses, those in your charge.
00:04:49
Speaker
Because, it again, it tends to place the responsibility of output, of authority, of that workflow, and indeed the well-being of that team in the charge of the of the
Communication: The Key to Leadership
00:05:00
Speaker
manager or the leader. So those in your charge might work.
00:05:02
Speaker
I don't know. One's minions. it Minions, no. The other one that I'm not a fan of is followers. isn't Oh, don't get me started. but i'm I'm sure we'll cover that a little later on. But and followers a very specific use of that word. But I'm sure find out that as we go. Yeah.
00:05:21
Speaker
I think people will believe that the relationship is important. I don't think anyone's going, especially not my lovely listeners, who are a little bit of a step ahead of the normalcy.
00:05:33
Speaker
business folks they'll they'll feel it's important but what do you notice that makes you feel that people feel it's important but they're not actually following through all the time with how they actually act yeah the signs of ah dysfunctional or less than exemptlary relationship ah ah all over the place in my book which i'm sure we' talk about i do refer to is it anecdotal or is it researched a little bit of both but i would estimate about one in two hundred leaders ah
00:06:05
Speaker
what i would call there's no improving theyre they're just the best leaders so that's that's quite ah a rare circumstance so often andm i'm privileged to go into organizations and see this first hand the relationship issue is almost immediately apparent seems to be a an immediate disparity between what's the people in a leader's charge ah team members understand um what the the leader understand and that will manifest in all sorts of ways
00:06:37
Speaker
and again my privilege is that i often in fact usually tend to speak to both the leader involved the managers involved and indeed the team members involved and the way they refer to the same circumstances or indeed even an incidentary or an activity are so remarkably different that that must mean there is miscommunication by definition they're not on the same page they're not understanding the same thing and one of the biggest things i go in and and talk about is
00:07:09
Speaker
communication because that's the the the main word people say oh they don't communicate or they didn't communicate to us communication huge but when you actually look at what leadership and followership might be it's all communication i don't think there's anything else other than communication so when somebody says there's a communication issue it's actually there's an everything issue yeah there's an everything issue it's true isn't it if you're feeling that you're not meeting each other but i'm ah i'm always surprised at how often that
Resolving Misalignment in Leadership
00:07:40
Speaker
not meeting each other issue can still be there even if they get um well respect each other achieving results i still have conversations with team members what they feel like there's ah mismatch and then i will speak to the they there you know the manager and and they will also recognise it but they might recognize something completely different like the symptoms for them ah something different
00:08:10
Speaker
ahll be sort of a performance thing or a ah just want them to step up or i notice this thing and and then when i be talking to that team member about it yes there may be something in there around that that you know there's always a sort of it shows up but yeah i've had recent conversations where the conversation that needed to happen hadn't happened for five years and the only way to help it happen was for me to sit and facilitate that conversation and the results are
00:08:41
Speaker
saying like course and controversial think it was surprisingly not controversial wasn't spiky it wasn't like oh i've got to say this really horrendous thing it was just a this is how i feel that's a really good so what this is how i feel this is how it is for me and and weve got got to be careful about not throwing the baby out with the bath wall saysed to speak on this one because from a leadership a management point of view if somebody in your team disagrees is prepared to challenge a decision i didn't think that's in and of itself a bad thing
00:09:14
Speaker
i'd be delighted i had such a good relationship with my team they were prepared to say andy ah i don't get that or andy i don't know that that's going to work and here's why i said bring it on let's have let's have those disagreements let's have those challenges but let's not be disagreeable in know disagreement let's make sure that those conflict ah positive and and recognizing that we're we're actually all in the same boat we're all trying to get to the same thing i saw a lovely cartoon a while ago where
00:09:44
Speaker
there was group of people in a boat and the two people at one end of the boat were looking down ah the other end of the boat where there was a leak and they were saying i'm really pleased the leak isn't to our end of the boat and that's perfect isn' that clever because like
Challenges for New Leaders
00:10:02
Speaker
it's your boat you're in the same boat and and i think that's a really good analogy but so conflict in and of itself challenge grateful idea i'm going to totally steal that andy have it i did yeah so you're a leader listening to this
00:10:19
Speaker
hidden signs of when there is misalignment in relationship it comes down to something that we were alluding to earlier on that followership peace if you take over a team or establish a team and tell them that you are their leader then in reality what you've just done is become a dictator because nobody can tell anybody to be led by them that is the choice of the people being let
00:10:51
Speaker
as a manager you can say i need you to do x y and z and i will pay you for it and you go what you can sort of tell people you're their manager because that's ah very clear and hierarchical arrangement but leadership ah for a leader you've got to earn that trust that respect ah you've got to be able to in inspire and courage engage motivate the people in your charge to do well to do their job even better and part of the problem is when leaders and managers have been promoted away from the shop floor but are expected to continue being
00:11:25
Speaker
very much part of that shop floor ah not being given an opportunity that alone the training indeed the time to actually lead because if you've been promoted by virtue of your competence you're better than other people at that job and that's often it's probably more than fifty percent of the time leaders managers are promoted by virtue of their competence but one of the first things you should understand as a leader is that you are there to resource the people in your charge to become as competent as you thus eroding the very reason
00:11:56
Speaker
you became their leader and that can't be a comfortable thing to start off with so we have to have that conversation a little bit around who put you in charge and why and do you recognize your responsibilities to the people in your charge and are you fulfilling that rule and it's a great place to start to say what's the job description of a leader so these are all indicative symptoms i think you said earlier on of why the relationship is a little bit imbalanced perhaps even to start off with and some of those
Supporting and Resourcing Teams
00:12:27
Speaker
relationship symptoms ah as we've already said the fact that the leaders and those in their charge simply to't understand each other just that just don't get it have completely separate issues separate ideas and yet it should be the diametric opposite of that and i often think about this is from my mentor my lovely mentor ah professor pete hawkkins would always challenge me to stop locating ah problem with the person and locate it
00:12:57
Speaker
in the relationship or the space between because i'm often working with people that are saying they're not this or they're not that and then what's the output that's needed what where does this what does success look like and where are they now where do they need to be what's the gap that that feels so much more like a useful place and also the where is your gap between where you need to be and and and it feels like it takes it away from the burden of blame and finger pointing and much healthier conversation to we having
00:13:31
Speaker
healthy conversation says so's the best way to go but it is it is that difference i don't know if you remember only your listeners remember watching the film men in black there's a scene in there whereby one of the men in black has to don some sunglasses and they get a little device out and flashes the person in front of them such that they forget everything that's happened up to that point so it's little a mind blank and often in my talks and in my leadership session with my tongue firm me in my cheek i say i think somebody comes along
00:14:04
Speaker
ah the moment we're promoted and uses one of these devices on us flashes us to make us forget what it was like so b ah follower such that the leader of the follower by definition because of this little flashing thing that's happened that nobody knows about make sure that we can't remember what it was like and therefore don't do what we need to be doing on behalf of our followers and the yet as recipients of our leadership and as arbiters as judges of our leadership they are the most important people
00:14:35
Speaker
in the organization for us they are like our customers we are in support of everything they do we are their most significant resource that most significant relationship usually why are we stepping up and yet leaders look down and say they need to step up and yet on the other hand the very same leaders will say but they're not ready and that plays to the gap that to to which you've already spoken which is well when will they be ready what do they need to do in order to be ready because
00:15:06
Speaker
if you level thated me i'm not well when will i be what do i need to do such that i am and to have some pseudo-sage nod as to say i'll let you know when you're ready it's look a complete not goingnna we have a code word for when you're ready
00:15:24
Speaker
you'll know youll know because i tell you time where leaders do stuff that they think is really brilliant for a relationship but actually it's counterproductive ah yeah sort of what they don't do as much as anything else there's a couple of answer to this first of all any problem the leader sees in that team is almost certainly there is a caveat but there's almost certainly
00:15:56
Speaker
ah product of their leadership or lack of it so as soon as ever somebody a leader complains about their team the very clear coaching response has to be ok and what are you doing about that so somebody says they don't know what they're doing below me that my team my minions they don't know what they're doing as a competence issue or they'll do it some days or not of so it's so consistency ishi then the study keep asking me questions that they've already asked me before and they
00:16:28
Speaker
so a confidence issue then they they're bat biting and they're having to go each other this is a collaboration issue or they sullen and miserable and they're not stepping up that's a commitment issue so you notice all those words rather's goingnna say this is this feels like some you're not ad livingbb there's a definite but not mo romeo yeah ah yeah it's it's it's about actually the six but i think five significant words beginning with c that tend to cover pretty much all the problems leaders have
00:17:01
Speaker
with their charges and the lack of recognition that it is the leader it is their responsibility to do something about whatever their problem
The Role of Regular Meetings
00:17:10
Speaker
is it starts in the mirror ah a wonderful slide of somebody looking in the mirror just sort a pointing and sort of bit of a strange look on their face and that is really what i want people to they lead us to do go if you've got to with a team look in the mirror say what is it that i'm not doing what is it that i am doing what is it that i could be doing better because the worst answer you could possibly get is i will lead them better
00:17:32
Speaker
when they are better behave and work chronologically like that was he iran you've got to get them to want to follow you by your behavior which is the true nature of leading by example absolutely so i like to have a focus on what leaders that are listening to this can do so it might be how can they identify if there's issues if they're not sure and then from that what can they do to
00:18:03
Speaker
increase effectiveness of relationships and how might they know its work so those three steps the fact that you're asking whether as a leader asking whether i could notice if there was a ah problem with my relationship is probably indicative of you haven't got a good enough relationship anyway because you don't know that it's good and you don't know that it's bad you're not really sure ah so there's a product of ah potentially dysfunctional relationship there and there are in my head
00:18:33
Speaker
and i don't want to be all prescriptive and clever about it but there are seven things that a leader ah fails on but the biggest one by far the biggest one which i think pretty much solves all the other six is the failure to have ring f prioritize one to one meetings with each and every member of their team individually regularly and hopefully often i would say once a week if you're not doing them yet once a fortnight as the rhythm
00:19:03
Speaker
and i think that's optimum no less than once a month and the challenge there is leaders will say well i can't up them um on the shop floor i see them and the fact i see them in the office and you said good so you should so you're a visible leader that's a good thing that's not being fenced one to one prioritize time because the main reason why people leave an organization is because they don't feel valued and that comes under lots of different guises i don't feel i'm getting enough money at my boss doesn't like me or doesn't understand me all of this is a product of not feeling valued appreciated
00:19:36
Speaker
understood accepted value so to have a one to one regularly and often the challenge with that of course is well i got time but you know we we have our appra and our appraiss once's a year if what once a year once a year you get to speak to somebody with information that half of which is going to be more than six months old because it's about the whole year and only then do they get an opportunity to tell you how it is for that that's that's not good enough praiss are great when run properly
00:20:07
Speaker
it's not a ring f valuable relationship building one to one with people and and like in fact of just put a course together very specifically on how i think one to one should be run because it's not about ah why are you behind all this project it's not ah the key performance indicators of a particular activity or indeed the sales pipeline it can refer to that of course i'm not saying it's nothing to do with work but the primary driver of that one to one starts with has things with you
00:20:38
Speaker
and i think that's one of the most important questions so that that person can turn around and say well you know what it's a bit rubbish at the moment or pretty good so you can say why is it a bit rubbish tell me a little bit about how we can get it to be better or it' pretty good how can we capitalize on that what's gone so right so there's some techniques within that one-toone meeting that i would always ever advocate because if you haven't if you're not doing them i think that's your biggest mistake that's when you know there's going to be a problem ah go into an organization and that say
00:21:09
Speaker
oh we've we've got a problem with our team they yeah some of them are thinking this some are them i think thinking that and some of them ah do it i say what are they saying in your one to one then they yeah looks askance and shuffling and glaing feet and and then like get the answer so we we don't have one to ones we haven't got time for all of that i so you've got time to call me in and pay me to try and solve the problem that you're not able to wow one to one speak my land gu andi
00:21:39
Speaker
it's good as and i knew we were ah near you would ah very aligned on that i see the impact of that with every client because when i when i do coaching work with clients i don't let them off it's not my job they're not outsourcing that to me part of that job is including their one to one how to make them better how to make them more frequent and it worked we know
00:22:11
Speaker
we know people do them biba but i do hear we don't have time is the is the biggie the other thing i noticed is when people are senior their ah manager is hi echelon in an organization corporate whatever and they are you know they've got a lot of responsibility lot of expectation and then the one to one seemed to dry up completely yeah
00:22:41
Speaker
because it's a bit like well i'm paying you to do you job and yeah very competent and the expectation is one to ones are potentially for people a bit lower down the the um hierarchy that need one to one do you notice that too yeah i do gosh this comes down to what do we expect our leaders to do and b for the people in their charge and if as you say the higher up and organization you go the upper echelons will say no we're far too busy and important
Fostering Team Growth and Succession Planning
00:23:13
Speaker
to have the one to ones where the people in our charge and i say well and that case don't be in charge of them been in charge of the the ambassadorial stuff you're doing being in charge of the busy and important stuff you're doing don't feign leadership here lead your projects lead your ambassadorial activities lead that stuff be visible for your shareholders whatever you need to but then claim you're leading people you're not oh we're leading by example now you're doing stuff the other people i've not got an opportunity to do largely because you're not letting them
00:23:44
Speaker
and where' where's the succession planning in that for start i could accept ah somebody at that level saying i employ people who are extraordinarily talented they are well paid and they are very good ah their job i said well you've done the management thing you've cracked management you've got a resource in your charge that is performing consistently effectively confidently and committed said doing the job well done as a manager you have cracked it
00:24:15
Speaker
now go lead them what's next for that how do you encourage them further what special projects could you start bringing them ah in on because ultimately you should only be doing what only you can do so as you start to do only things that you could do anything up there at the top anything that can be brought down a little bit further so people can there's there's wordss again step up is exactly what you should be now doing you're now looking for the next leaders and that's a tough call for people up there
00:24:46
Speaker
because they're the leaders they're the ones but feel a little bit unusaable so to actually start to look for the very people who are going to take over maybe a little bit concerning and i understand that i would say still do one to ones but i could comfortably accept them being less often not only want um yeah ah like that phrase you should only be doing what only you can do it's the title of the third section of what i do as a leadership development program
Common Leadership Pitfalls
00:25:18
Speaker
so awarenessreness is the first one ah do a lot of psychometrics and understanding each other as the basic psychological level second phase is the leader shit du if i may say that word i may say that word same name as the book basically all the things that leaders tend to be doing wrong how to put those right the third element of four is that time management piece i'll accept i call it time leadership and it starts with is through the lens of only do what only you can do and there will be reasons why that doesn't happen let's find out what they are and see if everybody can move up
00:25:51
Speaker
nice i'm so ah curious now you said that with a seven leadership you have to tell us what they are need to know and well the first one is um a lack of purpose so i would suggest that every time you meet ah with your team ah certainly in a team environment then you remind them why we're all here whenever i said that they we know they know why we're here they they they've already got us so great and i go and ask them and they go oh
00:26:22
Speaker
i didn't realize they thought that if you don't or aren't clear setting out ah a raison d'etre an aimed objective and being really clear about that pretty much every timee it's the lens through which that team operates then it could lead to in fact does lead to disparate priorities cliques being formed people not understanding their part in whatever it is like every single time you meet remind them we are here to we're going to be doing that because by doing x y like everybody clear on that great let's have the meeting
00:26:55
Speaker
so that would be the first fail the second fail and i think it's the most important fail is the failure and we've already discussed it to meet at least once a month with your charges but third one is it start a remember reminding yourself that all of these are but communication it when somebody says to you from from your team ah asks your question gives you a concern even moan and you say i'll get back to you and you don't it's one of the most destructive things a leader can do is not close the loop
00:27:27
Speaker
if you're going to say i'll get back to you give a date and the time ah go back to you by close play friday ah get back to you by wednesday lunchtime on it and if you are unable to then go back to them well before that point and say i still haven't been able to speak to soand so which i need to in order to answer that question would you mind if we pushed that forward to you say leaders whenever i was speaking to them they say yeah but but that i just asked them to remind me if i forget and i said and you'd put up with that if they said that to you
00:27:58
Speaker
you've asked them to do something they've agreed and then they forget to do it but you didn't make yeah you're happy with that talk about leading by example so close that down loop being open to your own challenge how am i doing give me some feeders as to how i'm working with you a failure to elicit your own that bit of fee failure to be giving specific feedback to your followers and i mean specific rather than just well we're not doing very well we need to do better that's not good and enough do pretty well fala
00:28:28
Speaker
or just like you you great yeah it's can say it's a sugar rush but it it doesn't get any specificity the best but the worst form of feedback is no feedback the best form of feedback is what we would refer to as positive and specific secondb best form of feedback would be constructive and specific hey when you do this i see that that's happening let me give you a couple of pointers because it's not working out how we want brilliant that's really good set of feedback number six of seven is say thank you
00:28:59
Speaker
ah then have to go far into that validad quite like that to be part of your feedback and the last one is if you are a head honcho failure to be visible and people not really understand what you're there to do and you disappear for days on end they don't really know what you're doing will come make sure that you are visible and in general you are communicating with the entirety of your group so i think that was all seven hence the name of this podcast fit's nice you go visible leader
Feedback and Vulnerability in Leadership
00:29:31
Speaker
funny that just like it's big i know it's all lined up i was doing a ah joint session um last week with ah leader and their boss and we had prepped for some feedback on how they could talk to their boss about something they had a really good relationship with them anyway but there was ah there was a thing they were doing that they wanted to share and so we bre like how to say it and it wasn't too spiky but it was obviously something constructive and i knew it was coming up because we were getting to that point in the thing and this person wasn't actually nervous about doing it so that was
00:30:03
Speaker
that was useful and but knew we' getting to this point and before we got to that point the managers said right before we carry on i want to know what can i do that would support you what could i do that would just bring you even more you know and i was like how awesome mr leader it was a mr leader and it just cuued her up to be able to say well actually there's this thing and you know this is the impact of it and how can we make that happen differently and it was this awesome i was like well done you for allowing that to be the easiest
00:30:35
Speaker
thing that needs to be said and that that' straightway indicative of one of those top two hundred leaders yeah top one in two hundred in as much as the vulnerability is there the last chapter of my book says the most important leadership question you can ask and it's it it's ah in that area but in my research for the book it was so clear that followers felt let down but they lead so to have the question in that area which is where is it not working where am i not working for you where am i letting you down potentially one of the most important things because the likelihood is you are
00:31:07
Speaker
all let them die and if you're not they can to and say no no i' got everything i need you say fantastic give us a shout if if other or they can turn around with the appropriate relationship in place and say well there were a couple of things you know you got in the way of the client when x happened and you didn't resource me under these circumstances i would really ah could have done with a little bit more of your support that and the answer of that of course is thank you i need to know that yeah yeah we need someone pickck some of that but that thank you for your honesty thank you for your feedback yeah rather than spring
00:31:39
Speaker
youre you're wrong and you yeah oh no so me explain let me tell you yeah what what i also love which i but was working with somebody else and they were saying oh people um dont make an effort with feedback they're not they can't be bothered i'm like but so hasn't been true that generally i think that if you get shoddy feedback shoddy meaning like thin it's probably because the question you've asked hasn't been helpful for them
00:32:11
Speaker
um bottom um and the relationship may not be a place where you can get full answer so they'll say something generic because they don't know whether you're open to hearing that real truth and maybe there's something they could tell you so my ah thing i was working with them on was getting really clear what you think your blind spots are so you know sometimes ah think my enthusiasm can feel a bit overbearing you know whatever it is it could be like ah know that sometimes i do this thing and i think maybe it gets interpreted like this and and that's not my intention but i actually think that is how it's being heard
00:32:48
Speaker
that is so much easier it's about to say yeah sometimes i kind of feel like you you know take over a bit you know like how awesome to be able to be given that freedom for somebody to say i mean it doesn't mean you always have to go this is i think it's not about falling on your sword but it's just about saying look i think i've noticed this blind spot do you see it too and for some to someone to be able to say yeah do sometimes see that too how lovely it's part of that psychoymetric thing that i do on the first of the four sections which goes very much into that
00:33:19
Speaker
and the idea that whatever that blind spot is is almost certainly based on the strength you already have so i devised this thing called validate and channel and it's a bit like the old poop sandwich you know you'd say something yeah night the the poop and then you'd said to be nice little bit old fashionshioned these days and i think people are onto it i much prefer the psychology behind the validating channel great example would be somebody making sloppy mistakes because they get into the end of their work really quickly so rather than admonish them
00:33:51
Speaker
and say you know you're you're quality of work is bad and if you carry on making these mistakes there's going to be a problem you just need to slow down so yeah otherwise there's going to be a problem for you toran to say what i really love about your work is the speed with which you carry it out so straight away you've actually validated something they're doing naturally something that's already a strength but you don't want a version of that you want the best version of that so you say or they would ask is you use that quick mind of your double back a couple of times and to mop up those silly mistakes that you know you make
Promoting Reflection and Accountability
00:34:24
Speaker
because you know what if you did that you'd still be finishing largely before everybody else and have an opportunity right here becoming one of my best operatives go for it so basically you're taking the trait that you know is based on the thing you don't want bringing it up in the mix and saying there's nothing wrong with that trait there's nothing wrong with your enthusiasm there's nothing wrong with your purpose there's nothing wrong with your assistant but sometimes sometimes it can come across but assistance you give comes across as patronizing
00:34:54
Speaker
or interfering sometimes that purpose that you are developing comes across as blinkered or dismissive to other people it's based on something really good and what's so why is that they go this is not about not being who i am naturally it's about marshaling that strength two and when and four its appropriate uses because every strength can tips into you know the the shadow side of it so it can all it can always be there and if you don't see if you haven't seen it
00:35:25
Speaker
inaction i think the other thing and is i always invite reflection because there are blind spots that people can't see that so this is is's not like everything is within that person if you just ask them they'll go yeah you know but i always i can invite that reflection because i think a lot of people like oh yeah no ah know i'm making silly mistakes you know that kind of thing and i feel like ah game for a relationship of equals its being able to share
00:35:55
Speaker
how you experience the but also inviting them to reflect on how they think they're showing up really important umm a a good reminder for me because myth enthusiasmia can sometimes carry me a little bit onto the next thing without saying so let's have a little think about that let's reflect see what the there is to do yeah ah you have something i refer to as and perhaps u listenersss would would be interested as well or something called a behavioral action plan and that should be the living document of your one to one and largely it's three areas for improvement but that may be a blind spot you want to be a little bit more aware of
00:36:31
Speaker
it may be ah simple as ah want to make sure my desk is clear but the time we go home or it could be i'll i'm goingnna let more introverted people speak up and meeting and you say great as a as an aim as a goal but now i want you to give me three tangible observable activity that i would notice if i were a fly on the wall that you are going to undertake in the next seventy two hours or week that would be in pursuance of that goal so it becomes a very tangible and real thing to say yeah
00:37:03
Speaker
i know i can be a little bit overentthhusiastic at time i'll calm that down you go great how ah want to see what you're going to do ah want to hear how it's going to work so one of those might be in meetings rather than jumping in ah wait until somebody's finished and to really challenge myself i will say is there anything else ah that is very observable and very clear that you are now giving somebody a lot more space than you used to so i'd like to see a behavioral action plan three goals want to build on or
00:37:34
Speaker
capitalize on or be better at along with three elements activities in pursuance of each of those three so becomes a nine point action plan i think that's a very useful thing for people to go away come back and say i'm struggling here or track that one i'm really pleased with myself so have something tangible and real and that's part of the reflection talking my language again andy i know we're so aligned here flow on the wall such a good analogy to just be able to it's got to be observable when i end up working with people like
00:38:06
Speaker
encourage them to have stakeholders so that they have got people that are going to be observers so in that meeting it's not just you on your own doing it they're going to be the fly and then at the end of the meeting it's like oh you know i said i was going to try to interrop less and that meant that i was going to do x y and said how did i do any suggestions for how i could do that even better um no longer going to refer to those people that are going to keep an eye on you is the accountability buddies which is what i normally do and well who's going to be your accountability buddy
Addressing Underlying Issues in Teams
00:38:37
Speaker
and who are you going to be a accountability buddy for undercore these who's going to be your fly <unk> going to be your fly on the wall um i see carry things on like okay if i'm a fly the wall what have i just seen happen and we should be holding our the fly ah cantable for for not holding us accountable if they're not thing you say come on you said you would you'd give me some feedback on this i've known anything for while so yeah it becomes that sort of yeah loop which ultimately leads to everybody being accountable to
00:39:07
Speaker
everybody all of the time so we've talked about what you can do we've gone around and talked generally about leadership or leadership which is just sha tap it which is lovely and flies what question have i not asked you andy which youre itching into answer ah question would probably b why would people leave me why would people not want to follow me
00:39:39
Speaker
and well i' really the whole answer to all of that is because you're not a good leader um so i think that would be the question what where am i given wrong as a leader but do people go wrong as a leader i suppose so how do leaders distinguish between what they think is the problem and what is actually simply a symptom ahlthough different or a deeper problem that's a good question i should have asked you and the aunt are it's to explore it
00:40:10
Speaker
it's absolutely to explore if there's so something's happening you say well there's there's the problem like that then to do a little bit of systems thinking around well how does that start and and to engage your team in how that started what drew them to that conclusion or that set of action and i the coaching me as i'm sure the coaching you would suggest is not a blame thing it's not a pointing at that but you're responsible this problem why did you do it as soonever you say the word why under those circumstances it will promote a defense
00:40:40
Speaker
so it would be what drew you to that decision rather than why did you do that but to explore to find out where that started because if the leak in the boat is somewhere and you don't know where it does behoove you to find out where that hole is and to so go explore ah you if you got wet feet over there because i got wet feet over here so the problem is we've got a hole in the boat right the symptom it' a symptom of a leak symptom of a whole find a hole find out where the hole is so starles all and i would suggest
00:41:13
Speaker
so it sounds like a great quality for a leader to have is to have curiosity great word curiosity and curiosity about other people's behavior we get such mixed messages sometimes when somebody's doing one thing thinking another and saying a third thing so it's almost a ah ah product of if they're caught out by saying one thing they can say oh yes but i was thinking this or i was actually doing that and it's great gape routes involved so yes that curiosity
00:41:45
Speaker
but along with honesty vulnerability and integrity around i'm going to think say and do the same stuff because if you do that there's no room for anything to hide if you did that then then you're very s slipp it's like an episode of eastenders i'd imagine because that's what happens they say one thing do another think a third thing and six months later somebody ends up in the canal dead you go great well let's keep it on eastenders let's keep it as part of our entertainment rather than what's actually going on back at the workplace
Communication Gaps and Their Impact
00:42:17
Speaker
yeah because ah cause it's chaos eastendder is chao um yeah absolutely and when you see that happening you see chaos and people do not thrive in chaos no absolutely not absolutely you know and it's largely around that lack of communication or misunderstanding and it's ah it's a playing to the symptom rather than the problem beautiful thank you it was a very lovely last question that i should have thought of where can people find you andy my name is my website andy edwards the speaker
00:42:49
Speaker
so andy edwardsthespeak dot com gets you into largely what i talk about but in you naa buy my book from there but also if you go onto a learning platform udemy which is u d e m y udeme dot com i'm sticking my name the search bar you get up all my online courses and you get some some unlocked videos so you can go get us as a sense of what i talk about and udemy are usually very good they're a little bit pilot high and set cheap stuff so you can normally get some really good chos if not from me than others
Resources by Andy Edwards
00:43:23
Speaker
um for you know ten eleven quid i think they're really valuable to have so that's where i hang out i also hang out on linkedin and well unsurprisingly andy edwards the speaker if you look me up there and lick with me there i promise i will respond i will put all of that in the show notes and you have written books ah have one i well've written two now first one was about behavioral psychology why can't people be more like me and i hear leaders say this a lot ah fuck about managers ah wish i had a team of mes
00:43:56
Speaker
ah that a a lot to make you clone myself i it would be brilliant and as you actually go through the book you realize why it's not such a good idea have everybody thinking i'm feeling the same thing so it's ah but there's wonderful differences based on that junggieian psychology that we talked about earlier on and of course the the book with a naughty title like the shit which is basically everything i was said game of three halves everything our leader does wrong and how to put it right but largely this book is leadership from the perspective of a
Conclusion and Implementation of Strategies
00:44:28
Speaker
frank
00:44:28
Speaker
and fearless follower and i recommend it the whole of my leadership work when i go into an organization nothing is outside that book everything i talk about is is that book and it's any a hundred pages so quite sutinct you buy them on my website you could actually go to amazon but i only get fifty p then but to come and buy them from my website and i'll sign it well i'll put the link to the website so thank you for a little bit more than that it was an absolute pleasure chatting with you i feel like we are twins
00:44:59
Speaker
on a lot of their and i think my listeners will benefit greatly from putting some of what we talked about into practice is hoping
00:45:24
Speaker
i'd love to hear what you think so please leave me a