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What Leaders Get Wrong About Creativity (and How to Get It Right)
70 Plays2 months ago
Rich Kirkpatrick is a creative leader, author, and speaker who helps people unlock their creative potential.
With a background spanning both business and the arts, he blends science and creativity to guide teams and leaders in fostering innovation. He’s the author of Mind Blown: Unlock Your Creative Genius by Bridging Science and Magic, where he offers practical insights into the creative process.
In this episode, we dive deep into the concept of creativity and how it impacts our personal and professional lives. Here’s a sneak peek at the topics covered:
- What is Creativity?
We kick things off by questioning the very essence of creativity. Is there a test to measure it, or is it something more intrinsic? - Leadership and Creativity:
Explore how creativity manifests in leadership and teams, and what happens when it’s missing. - Signs of a Creative Team:
How can a leader tell if their team is creatively thriving or just going through the motions? - The Wizard vs. The Robot:
Discover the two types of thinkers in creativity and why both are essential to the process. - Iterative Improvement vs. Creative Leaps:
Can creativity be a series of small steps, or are big leaps necessary? What’s the risk involved? - Creating a Culture for Creativity:
Learn about fostering an environment where creativity can flourish and the surprising elements that might be holding your team back. - Constraints as Creativity’s Best Friend:
Why setting boundaries might actually unlock more creative potential. - Is Creativity Always Good?
Can too much creativity be a hindrance? The discussion turns to balance and the importance of execution. - Top 5 Creativity Killers in Leadership:
What are leaders doing today that stifles creativity, and how can they turn it around?
Contact me to book your free 30-minute Leading Smarter discovery call on LinkedIn.
Connect with Rich on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/richkirkpatrick/
Got a question for me? I'm just a message away on LinkedIn.
Click here to get your free copy of my Leader's Guide to Increasing Your Impact, Influence & Free Time
And if you enjoyed the Podcast please share with someone who might benefit and leave a rating and review.
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Transcript
The Safe Space for Creative Thinking
00:00:01
Speaker
We have to create a culture where people feel safe to think outside the box, where they feel safe to ask questions. And those take guardrails because sometimes those things can go off the rails so people can operate in a way that's just beyond rote. Creativity is what humans do when we thrive.
Introduction to the Visible Leader Podcast
00:00:22
Speaker
Welcome to the show. I'm Corinne Hines and this is the Visible Leader podcast.
00:00:31
Speaker
On this show, I take a practical approach to leadership, unpacking the art and science of leading
00:00:52
Speaker
This week, I chatted with Rich Kirkpatrick, who is an author and expert on creativity. His book, Mind Blown, Unlock Your Creative Genius, shares insights on how to be more creative. Rich is creative himself, he's a musician and a consultant, and he helps people and organizations become more innovative.
Cultivating Creativity Within Teams
00:01:17
Speaker
In this episode, we talked about how you will know if you have creativity in your team, how you can cultivate more of it and the one thing you might be doing that's draining it from your team and organization. I really enjoy the conversation and I think you will too.
00:01:38
Speaker
Welcome to this episode, Rich, where we are going to be talking about all things creativity. Thank you for having me. It's a pleasure. So first question is, what even is creativity? And how will I know if I've got it? I need to know if there's a test that I can pass. There's a test about creativity.
Defining Creativity: Originality, Usefulness, and Beauty
00:02:00
Speaker
Well, first of all, I think that in the big picture of creativity,
00:02:04
Speaker
Creativity is what humans do when we thrive. But a lot of academics, I'll put it this way. Basically, there's three components to it. It has to be somewhat original. So something obviously we haven't seen before. But is it useful? But is it also beautiful?
00:02:22
Speaker
So not only does it have utility, but is it something that has meaning or moves us at a human level? And so that's what I've kind of centered on when it comes to the term creativity. Wow. We're using this in our house with my husband. If it's not useful or beautiful, it it can't stay. We are still passing the test. That's a very good test.
00:02:49
Speaker
So there's Zummy in there. We're obviously both quite useful. Great. Lovely. I love the fact we've got beautiful in there. Yeah. I think we focus so much on numerical metrics when we evaluate, but we never focus on how we live our life. We look at a tombstone, basically we're we're fighting for that resume at the very end of whatever it's going to be. But we forget that we have all these laps around the sun that we take each day.
00:03:17
Speaker
And beauty is just kind of that representation of the things that can capture us that kind of go out of just the qualitative metrics, if you will, of just what is important. Yeah. And thinking about what that looks like in leadership and in a team, how would I know if it wasn't present? Or is it always present? Is that a rubbish kind of question? Is it always present? Well, um I think we have to We have to mine for inspiration, so a lot of the things that we would think just should happen, we do have to work for.
00:03:53
Speaker
you know, if if we're sedentary, we're going to grow our waistline, enlarge it. But we have to get up and walk and move
Leadership's Role in Nurturing Creativity
00:04:04
Speaker
and live. And creativity is very much like that. So in leadership, we have to create a culture where people feel safe to think outside the box, where they feel safe to ask questions. And those take guardrails because sometimes those things can go off the rails. So people can operate in a way that's just beyond rote.
00:04:24
Speaker
And how do we know if we are watching a team or leaders operate that it's present or they've become a little bit thick around the middle? Thick around the middle. Oh, it's just happened to me several times. Being thick around the middle. Well, obviously if if there's a lack of excitement,
00:04:47
Speaker
You know, there's a difference between hype and being creative by the way. So a lot of times people want to create hype. Let's get people excited about something. Let's bring in, you know, a pizza or a party or something that really can just, you know, hear your sales are up. Look at what we've done for you. It's not necessarily like that, but what it is is when people start dreaming about doing it better themselves. So if you're a fly on the wall as a leader, when they're talking about, Hey, this process here, what if we did these three things a little differently? I wonder if we could even ask that question.
00:05:17
Speaker
And then there's a sense of ownership. Daniel Pink talks about the three motivators in one of his books a while back. Autonomy is part of it. We have to have purpose. And then from their mastery. So these are things that are very human
Intrinsic Motivation and Creativity
00:05:33
Speaker
motivators. So it's intrinsic motivation basically is where creativity is birthed. We have to kind of allow people to foster it. And that's a very human thing. And it looks different for a different team, a different group of people.
00:05:44
Speaker
So when we're talking about seeing a team and their motivations and how they're moving forward, we have to look, OK, you know, where is it that they're owning something or they have some autonomy in it and they're able to kind of improve what's going on? um And then do they have a sense of purpose in it? Do they say, Phil, this is my role? I know what that is. and And leadership, of course, should provide those those two things.
00:06:08
Speaker
And also mastery, can I get better? People are motivated to want to see themselves iteratively improve. And so as leaders, if those things are being fostered and grown in a team, I think you'll see more creativity.
00:06:24
Speaker
You talked about iteratively improving things and I ah love that concept when I'm working with leaders and teams. It is trying to think in that mindset so that people can stop moving forward and trying things and experimenting and seeing what happens. Do you think that there's other ways to make these kind of, are there leaps? can you Can you do leaps with creativity or is it so generally iterative?
00:06:52
Speaker
Well, you can make leaps, but you might not survive it. I mean, you know, there's there's there's a sense of of just how much change an organization can take or an individual. I just think of the Olympics as as a good example. You know, between third place and first place on some of these swim meets, things are so small.
00:07:11
Speaker
When we're talking about what really can make a person win, sometimes it's just that constant 1%, 2%, 3% improvement that is going to really be dramatic over time. One author says time plus direction equals destination.
00:07:28
Speaker
And so if we we think of that as a formula, we if we're moving in the right direction, sort of at least, then we're eventually going to see this destination. When we look for creativity to be this thing, well, we're so far behind and we have all these bad habits, we we need to be creative all of a sudden.
00:07:45
Speaker
then I think that really demoralizes the team because the pressure for that is killing creativity, actually, because you haven't done it for so long.
The Iterative Process of Creativity
00:07:53
Speaker
But if you slowly start improving and allowing people to have mastery, allowing people to see themselves with purpose and meaning and what they're doing, that over time is going to get you to a direction that's going to be far better than where you're at today. But it's not with leaps. I don't, I don't believe personally, it's not with leaps.
00:08:11
Speaker
It feels like you're creating the right environment for it to thrive rather than like going today, it's Creativity Tuesday. Yeah. I mean, there's there's always this thought of if you can just somehow find some formula, the creativity is a process, meaning that we have to engage in it. And as a human process, ah iteration sometimes in creativity, we're going to move not just forward, but backward.
00:08:39
Speaker
m So if you look at creativity is these two poles called the science and the magic where we have ideation, where you come up with the ideas and then you have this convergent thought where you're sorting the ideas. Well, there's a point, okay, we've come up with ideas. Now we need to implement.
00:08:56
Speaker
Well, you're implementing, but now you need to find out a better way to implement. So you're going to go back to ideation in a sense. And so you have a seesawing effect that is iterations, but they're not always feeling like they're forward iterations. And this is kind of think where a lot of people get stuck in creativity because they think it's going to just be the straight line. That's always moving in that one direction. But if you look at it as a process of somewhat sanding, you know, revisiting an old piece of furniture and they're, and they're improving it and they're putting a new stain on it and sanding it down.
00:09:26
Speaker
You start with thicker grit on the sandpaper and then you move to something smaller and smaller until it's really smooth. And that's kind of how really refined processes in business and anything we do is improved. So it's not a leap, but so it might feel like you're going backward and that might not feel right at the particular point in time. I might be pretty stressful for some folks. Yeah, no, I can imagine. So someone's listening to this and they're thinking I'm lighting up with the idea of changing maybe small things so that we see more creativity. What could somebody do? They're a leader, they're heading up a team. What could they do this afternoon after they've listened to this episode?
Divergent and Convergent Thinking in Teams
00:10:11
Speaker
I think what's important is to think of the two main way mindsets are brain networks actually in creativity and those are divergent and convergent thinking and that's the robot and the wizard. So if one person can take away this idea that we have 20% of us who are naturally preferring to be the wizard those of us who just come up with a bunch of ideas all the time, it's just more natural or at least more preferred, then there's 80% of us that are going to find that one right answer or take the chaos and try to order it, which is very important by the way. But both of these things represent creativity. So you have the robots and the wizards, you have the the process logic oriented people, and then you have the idea people who are dreaming about what's possible. And both of those strengths are needed and it can exist
00:10:58
Speaker
The question is who is on your team that's a robot or a wizard and how can you help them work together? So when you think of something of we have ideas that we need, how can we train the robots to act like the wizards when it comes to this particular meeting we're having so that we are ideating in that meeting? um How can we get the wizards who seem like they're still stuck on coming up with ideas to start thinking about how they take those ideas that they were a part of developing and actually making something happen with them?
00:11:28
Speaker
So I even a little quiz that that I put together and one of the teams I worked with, they really enjoyed it because, oh yeah, we're being a, ah this is a robot meeting. This is where we got to structure things. And so creativity really can be that simple. It's really just defining, is this the time I need to focus or defocus?
00:11:45
Speaker
So we're not going to be looking at our team going, I've got three wizards. I've got five robots. I need to make sure if I want creativity and ideas, I need to go to the wizards. I love the fact you're saying that we have preferences, but there's times where we need to switch one of them on, even if it's not something we'd have as our natural preference.
00:12:08
Speaker
I am saying that because the researchers really clearly say that that creativity is a human process, how we innovate and how we solve problems. And so it's like walking. So we can all walk. Some can be Olympic runners and sprinters, but we all have this capacity. So for us to engage in it, for some of those activities, if they're not our preferred or we're not as astute in that, it's going to feel uncomfortable.
Improving Creative Processes Through Ideation
00:12:34
Speaker
But that's okay if you understand that in doing so, the entire team can then learn, and individuals internally can learn when they need to focus or defocus. And that can be just a great improvement for folks. Is it going to be really clear what type of preferences people have? Am I going to be able to spot it pretty much straight away, like just by observation?
00:12:59
Speaker
You can't really do them at the same time. So when you see brainstorming meetings, which I think most folks are familiar with the attempt to like, let's do a brainstorming meeting. We got to come up with some ideas. um you'll You'll see it happen in that room because what you'll see is folks who are just putting out all these ideas and then you'll see folks saying, you know, starting to analyze them and starting to deconstruct them and evaluate them.
00:13:26
Speaker
And both of these folks are doing things that are going to be needed in that process. But what's needed in order for it to work is instead, it's like stepping on the gas and the brake at the same time on your car. You have to decide open or closed, open or closed in the moment. And if you notice in a meeting, this is where the leader has to decide this.
00:13:48
Speaker
that you're intending to have more open-mindedness, you're going to have to like shut down the evaluation parts. Hey, you know, no, let's finish. Let, let her finish. Let her give her a complete idea before we start, you know, doing that. Or if it's like, Hey, we have all these ideas already. We're not going to increase this list. What we're doing now is we're going to find out how do we take which one of these are two or three of these do we need to focus on and evaluate.
00:14:14
Speaker
Great. I think a way of improving that whole brainstorming thing is, I'm sure you're familiar with It's called variety of different things. I call it think, write, share. So everybody thinks their ideas. they They're going to get asked because everybody gets to speak before anybody speaks twice and they think about it and then they have to commit the thing down. And then everybody shares before we start analyzing. So it's quite a nice way of splitting those pieces up. um So everybody does both.
00:14:46
Speaker
Yeah, one researcher at Harvard Business School, basically she was saying the same thing. She describes it like a yoga where you're doing you an open pose and a closed one and you can't you know reach up and or and then go down and and you can't do that at the same time. And so often that's rarely really what's going on inside people's brains ah when we're seeing their frustration.
00:15:09
Speaker
yeah And that kind of separation and those kinds of tactics really will open up better ideas. Because more ideas, this is interesting, the more ideas you're able to generate, not only you get more ideas that are better because they already have more of them, but the percentage of those ideas that are good will increase as well, which is interesting. Yeah. What more practice doing it?
00:15:33
Speaker
means that yeah ah This does make me think of my creative creative writing days, which I've been paused briefly because I thought, yeah, writing a novel is hard. but It's really easy to pause it. I'm pausing for the summer. But I do remember that feeling of coming up with an idea for a scene and realizing, yeah, that's the first idea. So that's probably not going to be the best one. So just keep going. And it may be it is fine, but actually there's so much more to delve into and also find constraints really useful for creativity, for creative writing.
00:16:13
Speaker
I think that's that's very important for for that because i had there's one meeting I was presenting this my material on the three steps of creativity that I have, which is the dream sandbox and story. Basically, this these three steps, which are a triangle, so they can go back and forth, by the way, they're iterations.
00:16:31
Speaker
Uh, the first one is where you discover your idea and then this, where you develop your ideas in the sandbox and then you deliver your idea in the story. So not to go too much into that, but the sandbox is where you talk about constraints and there's actual beauty to that. It's, it's really, uh, like you say a child playing, I don't think parents do this much anymore, but I had this little box in the backyard. My father put together and, and you have little buckets and sand in there and you were playing like you were on the beach and we were not near the beach, but it was, you could pretend.
00:17:02
Speaker
It was a place that you could have some boundaries ah for yourself. Of course, in the in the tech world in Silicon Valley ah near me, they use Sandbox as a way we're going to test some software out before it goes live to the public, and that's the Sandbox. and So constraints, having the canvas size ah defined, having the timelines defined,
00:17:22
Speaker
If you want a truly creative person to crumble and take away, the slide is don't give a deadline, don't give a budget, don't give parameters or anything. And that's really what's important is being able to set some kind of constraint. And if you're a creative person, like a creative writer, for instance, you know that you have to have some kind of prompt or some kind of thing that you're doing. Otherwise, how do you start?
00:17:49
Speaker
Hello, it's Corin here. I wanted to tell you about something I've been working on recently that could help you get better results with key leaders in your team. Perhaps they've been in post a while, or they're one of your rising stars who you've promoted because they were great at the job they did before, but now they're not really getting the results you expected. Whatever the story, the knock on effect is you're getting dragged into decision making that really shouldn't involve you. And you're frustrated because you've probably said something already, but nothing is changing. If this sounds familiar, then my leading smarter program is for you.
00:18:29
Speaker
I run individual sessions for you both where I will create a roadmap to success. We'll look at where they are now, where they really need to be, and what's actually holding them back. And then, and I think this is where the magic happens, I bring you together and facilitate a joint session where we get really clear on what success needs to look like and how you're going to measure it.
00:18:54
Speaker
you'll both be clearer by the end. They'll be happier and more engaged, and you'll be able to put your efforts into the parts of the business that really need you, like growth planning or visiting key clients. If this sounds like something you need, I'm offering a free 30-minute discovery session where we discuss your specific situation and find out how the Leading Smarter programme can help you get better results.
00:19:22
Speaker
Find me on LinkedIn, search for Corinne Hines. Also, the link will be in the show notes, and I look forward to speaking to you then.
00:19:35
Speaker
Can creativity ever be a hindrance?
Balancing Idea Discovery, Development, and Delivery
00:19:40
Speaker
I would say no, because creativity has different parts in it that if we don't do all those parts, then we're in trouble. oh if Half of creativity is is a hindrance.
00:19:53
Speaker
But if we're only discovering ideas, but we're not developing them, we're not testing them, then that's a problem. So you're trying to get your product out the door. You have to like figure out what is it going to be. Or if you develop this great product, but you never deliver it.
00:20:07
Speaker
You never find out who's interested interested in in it, those kinds of things. Creativity is involved in all of those steps of what we do as human beings all the time. Some people may not call it all creativity. For instance, we call creativity the like the eureka moment. That's what we say. Oh, that's creative. I have this idea and it just came to me.
00:20:26
Speaker
And the truth is underneath, there's four steps of that. There's the first two as preparation and the incubation and preparation is like going to school, like me learning my lessons as a musician. Incubation is the period of time that I take.
00:20:39
Speaker
to ruminate on whatever it is to kind of give it time. It's wine aging. Went to a winery the other day. It was wonderful wine. It took a lot of time for that in barrels 22 months before they bottled it. All that's great. So that's incubation, like the cow who has to chew the cud before she makes milk. Only after those things are done do we have that eureka moment.
00:21:02
Speaker
or the idea, the illumination, they call that. And that's powerful when that happens. And that's what we always celebrate, but we don't celebrate, okay, we need to do some more training. We need to do some more background on things or skills. ah Daydreaming.
00:21:16
Speaker
Yes. Or we need to incubate things. We need to give something some time. We've presented the idea that we finally came up with. We've given the training and now we need to give some human space here. So folks can acquire whatever that is. And then we can really have that point of illumination. And then after that is the stuff that business people are better than anyone out. And that's getting things out the door. That's the, what they call verification or elaboration where you just look at the parts and you just get it out the door.
Factors That Stifle Creativity
00:21:44
Speaker
What are Rich Kirkpatrick's top five things that leaders are doing today, which is dampening down creativity and making it not happen. I think the top five. The top five whats a five is ah is a is a good number. Let's see. I see constraint, Rich. It's a constraint. It's a very wide constraint for my mind at the moment, but ah let me attempt. I think.
00:22:13
Speaker
yeah Lack of psychological safety would be number one, that the work environment needs to be where people can ask questions, can be curious, and can complain to some degree in order to improve things. So if you're wondering why your people aren't creative, maybe it's not psychologically safe for them to ask a question, for instance.
00:22:36
Speaker
The second thing is not having an environment where there's improvement desired. In other words, where that's really valued. ah If people aren't cheered on, look what you've done. You have improved. The numbers have gone up. And they're not feeling they're never able to be recognized. I think that would be a number too, because that really would kill someone's joy in feeling like they've done a really good job at taking something, especially if it's something that they had to have initiative to do. So if you empower initiative,
00:23:06
Speaker
you'll see people come up with creative ideas. And I think Daniel Pink has a right when he mentions autonomy. when there's some autonomy, some agency that your team or members of your team can have to think outside the box. It goes back to the safety one, but this is really specific because is it okay? Is it okay and their job description to be autonomous to some degree to help move, of course, the goal forward, not just you know their own personal things forward.
00:23:37
Speaker
Is that three already? You're on three. You're on three. You've got two more. This is this is a good test. We've got about seven minutes. Okay. So then ah that's good. ah Let's see. Um, and so those, those three are important. And I think letting people be free to be the robot or the wizard. In other words, there's folks, yeah, it's going to be harder for them.
00:23:58
Speaker
to be the idea ideation person and understanding that that's okay. And the inverse is okay too. If you're a person who's the wizard, it's not your A game to be the implementer. We all have to implement things.
00:24:10
Speaker
but you're also valued for being the wizard too. So kind of having this idea of the variance and and the scale of of where a person is on those things. And that leaves me with this idea of just beauty, the idea of creativity, aesthetics, ah meaning. If you're not putting any meaning in what you're doing, I think that you're really losing out. I think especially our younger generations are asking this question because they're coming into the workforce and I have two young adults and they They'll put up with a lot, but they want to know why. And so I think if if you, from, so from time to time, because it's exhausting, you can't do this every day, but be sure that the team knows what's the why. Why are we doing it this way? Why are you leading me? Why is this project so important? Answering that question will help a lot, I think, give people the freedom to be creative.
00:25:03
Speaker
They were a beautiful five. I did ask what dampens creativity out. So you've given five and in some ways the answer is like the opposite, you know, if you yeah don't have psychological safety. If you don't have. Yeah, if you don't have, which absolutely makes sense. Is there anything else overarchingly that will just knock it out? Or are those five pretty much the opposites of them? If you've got an organization where feed people feel don't feel like they've got any skin in the game and there's no safety, I can just imagine that environment. Is there anything else that people might look around and think, ooh, we need to fix that? If you only use quantitative metrics and never qualitative metrics, you will lose your people. Ooh, give me an example.
00:25:53
Speaker
So it's a process. In other words, if you never evaluate the process of how a person's works, their character, for instance, if character isn't appreciated or expected.
00:26:08
Speaker
and we're only looking at, say, sales numbers or something of the sort, which you need to look at. That's not a bad thing, but if it has the absence of this is who we are, we want to aspire and be human in that sense and improve ourselves, then I think we're dehumanizing people. And like I said, if creativity is the definition, is what people do when we thrive,
00:26:33
Speaker
then that thriving must come from a definition of safety, a definition of autonomy, a definition of being in a situation where we're valuing our process. We're getting up every day to do something and practice it and not just look at the end, but also see the steps that we need to take today.
00:26:56
Speaker
This really points to people being in roles that they want to be in. like I think of myself when I was 20, and I'm not sure that that would have described me particularly. There's more of a means to an end. But ah the way you're describing it, I don't know what the question is, Rich, but it just felt a little bit like, gosh, it must be really sad if you're in a job that you just find really dull.
00:27:25
Speaker
Think of military ah people, they have to do things so regimentedly, but they know their purpose is extremely important.
Purpose as a Catalyst for Creativity
00:27:33
Speaker
Why they're doing it is to protect their people, their families, their grandparents, their nieces and nephews. So when they practice the very difficult training in how it's all regimented, that's I believe what can keep in that setting, things going. And so I would imagine if we don't have the similar kind of thought to what we do, which this business is is helping provide a life for us, my job is is' part of that. I think that can get garner some real creativity.
00:28:06
Speaker
Nice. You know, the thing we haven't mentioned yet, Rich, is your book, Mind Blown, Unlock Your Creative Genius by Bridging Science and Magic. I know we talked a little bit about the science and the magic, and this isn't a book advert, but what could somebody get from that book that might help them?
00:28:24
Speaker
I think there's 115 citations. There's a lot of information that a person wants to kind of look further. That's in there because I wanted to write something that wasn't just my opinion about it. I really wanted to test the ideas that I had over the years as a creative person and as a leader.
00:28:42
Speaker
And try to put it in a form, of course, where it's accessible. But I also wanted to offer folks, hey, if you wanted to see Graham Wallace's 1926, the four steps I just mentioned, for instance, about the incubation, illumination, et cetera, that's in there.
00:28:58
Speaker
So I think what I really wanted to do is is deconstruct creativity, demystify it, explain the magic trick, in other words, about creativity. And I hope that I captured that enough so if a person, a particular leader can see that and say, okay, there's actually something that makes sense. Yeah, lovely. And is there a question, Rich, that I haven't asked you on this recording that you think will be awesomely creative to to ask you?
00:29:30
Speaker
I don't know. Maybe I'm not that creative. Oh my God. We've exposed you. Exactly. I think part of being creativity is is being honest with our limitations. So that might be part of it. Yeah. I think it's great. I mean, it's, it's all links to being vulnerable and.
00:29:50
Speaker
The constraints, if you think about it, one one of the things that that hit me, I'm a person of faith, and I realize that that miracles happen in time and space. They happen at a GPS location. They happen and on a date in the calendar.
Embracing Constraints for Enhanced Creativity
00:30:05
Speaker
So we look at the most mystical things we can think of in our life and they have constraints to them. And so when we deny these constraints of the universe that are around us, we really get exhausted. But when we kind of embrace it it and see what we can control, then we can really see things possible, perhaps that we didn't see before. A lovely place to end, I feel.
00:30:28
Speaker
Thank you very much. Really enjoyed that conversation, Rich. And I think there's lots of actionable things for people to go off and do straight away. My pleasure. So what score would you give yourself for creativity? Maybe you could use Rich's list of five and grade yourself and your team.
00:30:52
Speaker
And how are you going to flex effectively between the ideas wizard and the implementation robot? ah Know which one I'm drawn towards and which one I need to work on. And I'm not telling you. There's lots to be working on. So you better give yourself a deadline because otherwise you'll achieve nothing.
00:31:14
Speaker
Please comment and review the show and DM me on LinkedIn with what you actually implement. I'd love to hear from you.
00:31:33
Speaker
I'd love to hear what you think, so please leave me a