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142. Wellness to Wonderful with Dr. Alona Pulde and Dr. Matthew Lederman
154 Plays1 year ago
What can we do to create a life that truly feels wonderful to us? This week's guests are all about taking our wellness to the next level and making decisions that allow us to thrive both physically and emotionally.
Dr. Alona Pulde and Dr. Matthew Lederman combine conventional Western medicine, Chinese medicine, lifestyle medicine, nonviolent communication and more to create their groundbreaking health paradigm. They have been successful corporate leaders, starred in the life-changing documentary Forks over Knives, lectured for eCornell, served as adjunct medical school professors and corporate medical advisors, and are NY Times bestselling authors.
In their newest book Wellness to Wonderful, Drs. Pulde and Lederman provide practical advice for leading a healthy and vibrant life. In our conversation, we discuss their fundamental pillars of health and how we can live a life that isn’t just “ok” but is truly “wonderful.” We discuss ways to break out of survival mode so that we can really thrive, how to empower ourselves by connecting to our choices, tips for creating purpose, and much more.
If you enjoy this episode, please feel free to rate and review the podcast on whatever app you’re listening on, and share with a friend!
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Transcript
Introduction to Wellness and Wanderlust Podcast
00:00:03
Speaker
Welcome to the wellness and wanderlust podcast. We're here to demystify wellness and help you add a little adventure to your life. Tune in for a new episode every week, where we'll hear from incredible guests and talk about ways to be happier and healthier in our new normal. I'm your host, Valerie Moses. Let's get started.
00:00:23
Speaker
Hey everyone, I am thrilled to welcome you to the wellness and wanderlust podcast. Thank you so much for joining us here today. And if you're new here, welcome. Each week on the show, we explore actionable steps for creating our best lives one day at a time. I am truly grateful for the community we've created here. Before we dive in, I wanted to share the latest review we received from a listener.
00:00:44
Speaker
Now, you may have heard this on other podcasts before. You've probably heard me say this if you've tuned in before. But reviews really do make all the difference for podcasters. They help us get the word out. They help us bring on incredible guests. And I am so incredibly grateful to everyone who has taken the time to share their thoughts about Wellness and Wanderlust. It really does mean the world to me. So in this review, our listener says, great informative podcast. Valerie does such a great job of presenting interesting content and introducing new information and concept.
00:01:14
Speaker
This podcast is a great way to stay up on health and wellness. I'm so grateful to every listener who takes the time to leave a thoughtful review like this. And your words truly, as I said before, they mean the world to me. I'm so proud to connect with such incredible guests who share such powerful messages with our audience. And I'm also grateful and proud to connect with the incredible listeners that tune in from week to week.
Meet Dr. Alona Polde and Dr. Matthew Letterman
00:01:38
Speaker
So now shifting gears, I'm excited to introduce this week's guests.
00:01:41
Speaker
Dr. Alona Polde and Dr. Matthew Letterman combined conventional Western medicine, Chinese medicine, lifestyle medicine, nonviolent communication, and more to create their groundbreaking health paradigm. They've been successful corporate leaders, starred in the life-changing documentary Forks of Her Knives, lectured for E. Cornell,
00:02:00
Speaker
served as adjunct medical school professors and corporate medical advisors, and our New York Times bestselling authors you have probably heard from them before. In their latest book, Wellness to Wonderful, doctors Polde and Letterman provide practical advice for leading a healthy and vibrant life. In our conversation, we discuss their fundamental pillars of health and how we can live a life that isn't just okay but is truly wonderful.
00:02:24
Speaker
and how we define that for ourselves. We discuss ways to break out of survival mode so that we can really thrive, how to empower ourselves by connecting to our choices, tips for creating purpose, and much, much more. I'm gonna let our guests fill you in. So without further ado, let's hear from Drs. Polde and Letterman. Thank you both so much for joining me at Wellness and Wanderlust. How are you doing today? Doing great, thank you. Thanks for having us. Yes, thank you.
00:02:48
Speaker
Well, thank you so much for coming on the show. Now, our listeners are probably already familiar with your work. But for those who don't know, or for those who need a refresher, why don't you introduce yourselves to our listeners? So I'm Dr. Matthew Letterman. And I'm Dr. Alona Polde.
00:03:05
Speaker
And we're the co-founders of We Heal, which is a virtual health and wellness platform focusing on nutrition, lifestyle, and connection medicine. And we've sort of, as physicians, both Western and Eastern trained, at least for Alona, I'm just Western trained.
00:03:20
Speaker
We've always been looking outside the box to try and find solutions that heal and don't just sort of cover up symptoms or put band-aids on the problems. And we've sort of worked our journey through nutrition, conventional wellness, and then brought in other modalities to the point that we got really comfortable and confident with this program that we are currently working on and outlined in our book, Wellness to Wonderful.
00:03:47
Speaker
Well, first of all, I love the name of the book. I think that it's such a great book. I've gotten the chance to read and I'd love to know what inspired you to write this book. Now listeners may know you from Forks Over Knives. I actually was just watching it not too long ago. So very, very recently re-familiarized and it was such an impactful documentary. And I'd love to know from there, what took you down this path?
The Nine Pillars of Health
00:04:12
Speaker
Yeah. So Matt and I have always been curious about, you know, and always looking for how do we optimize our wellness? How do we optimize our own health? And then how do we deliver that in the most effective and healing way to patients and clients? And that led us to nutrition and lifestyle medicine and forks over knives and really
00:04:38
Speaker
pulling what we know from conventional medicine and then incorporating diet and lifestyle and really seeing huge impact in disease reversal, in overall quality of life. But even with pristine diets and regimented exercise and adequate sleep and even incorporating mindfulness to some degree, we noticed that there was still a component that was missing.
00:05:04
Speaker
And when we really tapped into what it was, it really, we want our life to be wonderful. And we say in a world of infinite possibilities, it can be wonderful. So how do we go about making it so? And in thinking through what would it take to get us to say our life is wonderful, we decided on the nine pillars as foundations for
00:05:29
Speaker
for when they are all tended to when you can pay attention to these nine fundamental pillars, life truly becomes wonderful. I love that because I do think a lot of times we are so focused on the immediate like
00:05:45
Speaker
take care of the problem that's at hand, if there's something in our blood work or something like that. Or maybe you talk about the survival mode quite a bit in the book. And I think that so many of us, probably every single person listening has fallen into the survival mode at least at one point or another if they're not currently going through it. And I think that actually having this focus on not just
00:06:07
Speaker
okay, or fine, or good, but wonderful. Really, really trying to live a more, you know, the best lives that we can and something that we're excited about. So I think that that's such a great mission and something, again, that there's such a need for. In the work that you do with these nine pillars, what do those pillars look like? And where do you think that we're lacking?
00:06:28
Speaker
Yeah. So we diagram the pillars as an infinity loop to indicate that it's an ongoing ebb and flow in our lives. And it's not a, it really is a journey. It's not a destination. We get to life is wonderful and then life will always be wonderful.
00:06:45
Speaker
And in the center of this infinity is the self, which is really where the journey starts. It's connecting to your internal self. And you mentioned Valerie, when we are in survival mode and so many of us are burning the candle at both ends, exhausted,
00:07:02
Speaker
depleted, miserable. And in that state of survival mode, we completely disconnect from ourselves. We go through the day checking off boxes, but never really tap into, what am I feeling? What am I needing in this moment? And how do I go about getting that? So the journey starts with self. And the next part is once we've identified, what am I feeling? What am I needing?
00:07:27
Speaker
We go through the resourcing of our internal selves, so that is optimizing our nutrition, getting daily movement, getting adequate sleep, and then play, which is a really important component to get us out of that survival mode.
00:07:43
Speaker
You can't be in survival mode and play at the same time. So once we focus on those, we resource ourselves to then connect with our external world. And that's our family. Some of our most important relationships, our family and friends, our work, which is connected to our meaning and purpose, our spirituality, a connection to something bigger and greater than ourselves.
00:08:06
Speaker
So we don't feel so alone in this world. And that includes the natural world, which is everything on this planet, animals, plants, humans. Yeah, I think that that's so, so important. I love that you focus in so many of those areas because really with
00:08:23
Speaker
I think that nature, we don't always give that the credit that it deserves for the role that it can have in our lives and in our wellness. I know for me, I talk about this a lot on the show, but after a very long day, the thing that sometimes is that thing that gets me out of that survival mode is going for that walk, seeing the water, seeing the birds, and just being outside. That level of connection even just from walking outside of my home can make such a difference.
00:09:05
Speaker
you know, the cell danger response, right? With one of the ways we clearly get ourselves out of threat physiology into the safety physiology, which we talk about in wellness to wonderful. And once you realize that it's not just, oh, it feels nice, but it actually shifts our physiology. It gets us from a pro-inflammatory state into an anti-inflammatory state. So it affects all aspects of our health.
00:09:16
Speaker
I love that this pulls from so many different areas.
00:09:30
Speaker
from blood sugar to a microbiome to even metabolic complications down the road, cholesterol levels. It's so impact, even our perception of pain, it's so impactful. And all of these things that people in the past thought were, they're nice, right? Connection, not getting into the natural world, spiritual, it's actually a must have if you want to fully optimize your physical health.
00:09:57
Speaker
You know, I really do believe that more and more, especially coming out of this very difficult time for so many and remembering, you know, going to my, I had some blood work done and my doctor even said my health, I had a lot of, a lot of my inflammatory markers were not great. And I wasn't eating particularly unhealthy, but a lot of my numbers were really getting worse. And she actually said that connecting with other humans and
00:10:20
Speaker
in a safe way was going to be better for my health and worth the risk at that point, because I think the loneliness, the isolation of a time like that was so, you know, I think it was very difficult on a lot of us. And I really do see it now that it's not just, well, it's nice to see your friends. It's good to have the people you love in your lives. It's like, we need to make sure we're prioritizing that. And so knowing that there's science behind this
Connection, Nature, and Physiology
00:10:45
Speaker
to really back it up is really impactful. Right.
00:10:49
Speaker
connecting over Zoom was shown to be less effective than connecting in person as far as shutting off the anti-inflammatory response and optimizing your antiviral response. So it's really, really essential, I believe, that people look at connection as the same as they would taking a steroid or Advil as far as
00:11:13
Speaker
shut it and probably stronger if I had to go through all the different pathways, right? So as far as shutting off the inflammation and a lot of chronic disease is steeped in inflammatory, abnormal or chronic inflammatory responses. So people that can't find their health
00:11:32
Speaker
And we've had quite a few of those where no matter what they did in the conventional medical system, they optimized their diet and they still had issues like chronic fatigue and chronic pain and mood disorders and different gastrointestinal issues. And it's because they're missing this other piece.
00:11:51
Speaker
it really does make a lot of sense. And I'd love to know too, I think that inflammatory response, again, that's something that with so many stressors out there with so many of us in a time of where, you know, burnout is finally being recognized as, you know, by the CDC and we're seeing a lot more overall acceptance of the fact that people are stressed. People are, as you said, burning the candle at both ends. What are some other things we can do to shift out of that inflammatory response?
00:12:18
Speaker
I think one of the biggest things is that connection to self and what you discover as a result of it. So one of the tools that we use to connect to self and then to the world around us is nonviolent communication. And it's a way of connecting and caring for not only our needs, but the needs of others in an interdependent frame. And so in order to kind of understand that world,
00:12:46
Speaker
We introduce, and NBC does, but in Wellness to Wonderful, we talk about the importance of identifying needs and feelings. Many of us have a blunted vocabulary when it comes to either. And beyond that, we mistake strategies for needs. So for example, I need to go to the gym. I need to eat my broccoli today.
00:13:11
Speaker
Well, neither one of those are needs. Both of them are strategies. You need movement. Movement is a universal need. We all share that need. We need health. That is a universal need. But movement can be achieved through dance. It can be achieved through taking that walk outside. It can be achieved through swimming. There are so many different ways. It can be a soccer game at the park. Health can be achieved. You don't have to eat broccoli if you don't like broccoli.
00:13:40
Speaker
hundreds of other vegetable choices and healthy food options. So really getting and honing, beginning with honing that vocabulary is so imperative to open your eyes to where you are even at.
00:13:58
Speaker
I love that strategy there too because that is something I think so many of us fall into where I've been guilty of this beating myself up for not following whatever mental checklist I had for what I felt that I needed to do in order to be healthy. And you're so right. There are so many different ways that we can achieve that and it doesn't have to be that trip to the gym.
00:14:20
Speaker
unless that's within what you want to do or what, like if it's something that is going to work for you, great. But yeah, there are a lot of other ways that we can achieve that and changing that language around it is just a lot kinder to ourselves. And it's a lot easier to stop beating ourselves up when we make that shift. That's such a small shift, but I think it's something that probably takes a lot of practice.
00:14:41
Speaker
It does take practice and it also takes a toll to do things out of obligation, to beat ourselves up for not doing things. That is that same danger and inflammatory response that over the course of time impacts our physical health. So it's not about, you know, a lot of people hear that and they're like, well, are you telling me not to exercise or not to eat healthy? Not at all.
00:15:06
Speaker
but it's to tap into how do I want to move today? Not force myself to get to the gym, hate every minute of that. And all of that signals danger in my body. The response is a fight or flight inflammatory response, which is not contributing to health. Right. When you force yourself to do something that part of you is not excited to do,
00:15:32
Speaker
It's important that you connect to the needs that are coming up that are pulling you away from that strategy. So instead of trying, a lot of times we think we, we don't, you know, our body doesn't know better. We know better when we have to use willpower to overcome our body's resistance. But instead of you, if you cultivate the skill of self connection, you can discern all of the needs that are underlying and then find strategies that meet all of those needs.
00:15:58
Speaker
So it's a really different framework because most people are looking to be told what to do. And what we're trying to do is cultivate that skill of internal discernment. And the benefit of that is when we are externally motivated, when we are seeking externally what to do, that is part of the confusion that exists in the health and wellness world right now, because so many different people are telling you so many different things to do.
00:16:24
Speaker
How do you know what to do? Who do you listen to? Yeah. And there's a lot of really compelling information. One way, I feel like you can find a study or something to support a lot of different things. And so what is going to be the right thing? And I think some of that has to do with our bodies are just different and might respond differently. And there's also the idea that maybe you don't, maybe you're dreading going to the gym and doing this type of exercise because you have some injury. You think you might aggravate or something like that. Like maybe there's a reason that.
00:16:53
Speaker
doing that particular exercise that you think you need to do is not the answer and might actually be counterintuitive for you. But yeah, I think the stress of I have to go to the gym so that I de-stress and lose 10 pounds or I hit all of the goals for the day. But when we put that pressure, I mean, definitely the de-stress component like kind of goes away from there because you're kind of angry while you're doing it. But yeah, I think the resentment piece and the dreading, it makes it that much harder to make any of it a habit anyway.
00:17:23
Speaker
Exactly. Or to maintain or sustain it in any long-term way. Absolutely. So I love that focus on self and just being kinder in general with the way that we're communicating with ourselves and how to go about the habits that we're wanting to bring into our lives.
Balancing Work and Wellness
00:17:40
Speaker
When we're in that survival mode where it seems like everything is kind of coming at us at once, what are some steps we can take? Because I think a lot of times we're also so overwhelmed that
00:17:50
Speaker
we don't even know where to start or how to take that step back and start creating that plan and start to evaluate those things. What might be fun and more alive in the moment is to give us a scenario or an example versus talk about it. What if maybe you're thinking of something or a situation? How does that sound? Yeah. Well, I know for me personally, I've been
00:18:13
Speaker
going through a challenging time in my full-time career and the hours have changed quite a bit from what I was used to. It was a lot of unexpected change at once and getting into a routine of cooking for myself again and having the meals prepared and even getting my movement other than I do get my walks but really devoting some of that time. I get home from work and I'm so exhausted that it's like okay let's
00:18:40
Speaker
watch a little TV in time for bed. And so sometimes and knowing that I would feel better if I were prioritizing the health and wellness, but also sometimes being just too tired to start. Right. So I'm hearing that there's a lot of fatigue and just feeling tired. How often are you how often are you choosing to work? Like what is your schedule that you're that you chose?
00:19:01
Speaker
So I do work a nine to five, but because I'm in business development through central Florida and I'm working with a county that isn't the county I live in, and so it's a lot of longer drives and sometimes hours outside of my typical night. So this morning I was on the road at 6 a.m. and before that I was having maybe a 10-minute commute.
00:19:24
Speaker
either having the early, early morning or having maybe a late night event plus, um, serving in some leadership roles in the community that might be in the evenings or on weekends and then just trying to see my friends when I can. All right. So I'm hearing that you're trying to meet a lot of needs here, right? There's supporting the community, meeting needs for friendship. There's also the work that you're doing that sounds like it's at the minimum meeting.
00:19:50
Speaker
supporting financials, a need for financial security. Maybe there's also meaning from the work that you're doing. So then the question is, hey, the choices that I'm making, how are they impacting my sleep and my nutrition? And if you would say, hey, it's really getting in the way of my sleep, that would take us down one route. If it was, hey, it's
00:20:10
Speaker
It's really hard to cook the way I want to cook. I just don't have the time. Then we start to, we don't want to focus on strategies around what are you going to do differently, which is where I think a lot of wellness people would start. I would want you to focus on where we can tend to those needs most effectively, and then say, what choices am I making that are getting in the way of the other needs? Because I'm hearing you have a real need for self-care and sort of resourcing yourself that you're not meeting right now.
00:20:36
Speaker
Because if you get home and you're like, I just need to lay on the couch exhausted, then some of the choices you're making, even though they're meeting some needs, are not serving other needs. Does that make sense? It's not about changing anything. It's about first empowering yourself that you're in choice, full choice, and you're making choices to meet some needs, but it's at the expense of others. If you were going to frame it from that perspective, what choices are you making and what needs are not being met? What comes to mind there?
00:21:04
Speaker
Oh, you know, one thing that I do that I've been trying to prioritize as long as it's not storming is even when I'm exhausted at the end of the day, I try to at least get 15 minutes of a walk, if nothing else. But I think maybe some of that time spent.
00:21:19
Speaker
on the couch or like just kind of lounging and zoning out a little bit. I think that as much as I might be thinking after work, I don't want to do anything. I think that if I were spending a little bit of the time like meal prepping for the next day or doing something that's taking me in the direction I want, or even just getting to bed a little bit earlier instead, if I just said, well, I guess it's time to go to sleep, I probably would have more energy in general to do
00:21:45
Speaker
the things that I want to do in order to get to the, because mentally I want to, it's just sometimes it is like, I think that if I, yeah, put in a little bit more of that time and said, Hey, if I do this, yeah, it's a little hard at the moment, but I'll feel a lot better tomorrow.
00:22:02
Speaker
Right, because sometimes when people feel tired, it's really their body is just worn out from pushing so hard. And it's not that they're physically tired where they need to even sleep. We talk about this when you're mobilized in fight or flight, you're ready to fight or flee, run, right? But there's another phase that if you've been mobilized for a long time,
00:22:23
Speaker
your body can't stay mobilized. So it goes into what we call immobilization or shutdown. This is all part of the polyvagal theory that we talk about in Wellness to Wonderful. But a lot of people who've been going all day and maybe they skipped lunch or they're just not taking a break and they're going from meeting to meeting and you're driving for hours and you're focused on the road, your body is in this high alert state for so long, hour after hour,
00:22:49
Speaker
that it then goes into immobilization and shutdown. So a lot of people when they sit on the couch, what they're doing is they're not
00:22:57
Speaker
quite getting themselves out of that high alert sort of physiology, that doesn't do it. And that's where play, for example, is really helpful. So if you try to make yourself do one more thing, like go to the gym when you're shutting down or immobilized, your body is going to resist that. But what I've told people to try doing, for example, is just take like five minutes to dance and sing to a song that you really like and play it loud and
00:23:22
Speaker
and dance like nobody's watching you. And watch after you do that five-minute dance, which is not much. You're going to have a totally different feeling in your body, which, if it was true exhaustion where you needed to sleep, five minutes of dancing wouldn't fix it. But that's just to show you, play is so strong at shutting off the high-alert state that it'll pull you out of that shutdown mode. Does that make sense?
00:23:45
Speaker
Absolutely. I think so because I've even noticed sometimes when I'm cleaning or doing something around the house that I don't particularly want to do, but if I put on the music and I'm kind of dancing and having a good time, like that does get me out of whatever state and it does get me to okay.
00:24:03
Speaker
here's the task at hand and I just am in a better mood, I'm more energized. And yeah, if it didn't help, I mean, I guess there does come the point where if you're really that exhausted, then go to sleep. But at that point, it's like, I'm not ready to go to sleep at 7.30 or whatever time, you know?
00:24:20
Speaker
Most people can't fall asleep at 730 because they're really in high alert. If you were truly exhausted, you'd be able to fall asleep. If you weren't, some people, they're both, they're exhausted and in high alert and then they still can't sleep.
Identifying Needs and Reducing Stress
00:24:33
Speaker
But for a lot of people at 730 at night, it's not that their body needs to sleep right then, it's that they're more often shutting shut down or that immobilized physiology. One of the things that we noticed is that regulation is a really important piece of that.
00:24:50
Speaker
kind of beginning on that journey, we have a tool that we use called the check-in meter, and we've used it with our daughters really successfully as far as a zero is, I'm feeling totally calm, my body is still, and I'm comfortable in that stillness, and 10 is, I'm feeling frantic, and I wanna just pull my hairs out, and all the numbers in between. And when Matt mentioned taking that moment,
00:25:18
Speaker
because in mobilization, we don't feel, some of us might feel like we're mobilized, but most of us, we're so trained to be in that state, we don't know otherwise. And so if we take that minute to close our eyes and to take a breath and kind of check in, where am I on this meter? And anything above a five is okay, I need to pay attention to that. And not that it matters what your number is,
00:25:46
Speaker
But it connects you to your state of mind, to what you might be needing. Because that exhaustion, it could be a need for play. It could be a need for rest. It could be a need for creativity. It could be a need for friendship or intimacy. It could be a need for nutrition.
00:26:01
Speaker
You see what I'm saying? This one complaint could be the cause of many, many, many needs might be unmet. And how we know that is when we have those unpleasant feelings, when we're frustrated, when we feel anger, when we're tired, when we have unpleasant sensations, that's a message to our body that some needs are going unmet. And when our needs are met,
00:26:28
Speaker
and we feel the pleasant sensations. So to you, you know, coming home, feeling depleted and exhausted, that's a key message there is there are needs that are not met. And another really helpful tool, and we have this in Wellness and Wonderful too, is a list of feelings and needs for people to, you know, when I first started, I carried that around with me because I didn't have a finessed vocabulary around it.
00:26:56
Speaker
I knew I was angry. I knew I was frustrated. I was sad, but you know, or I need food or I need, you know, like very basic and looking at that list and really trying to connect to where, where am I here for that self-awareness? If that makes sense. Right. Cause once you know the word, you know, Hey, I'm feeling burnt out, right? That means that you're making choices during the day that are, are leading to that sense of burnout. So it doesn't mean now how do I use willpower?
00:27:26
Speaker
overcome my burnout, it means, hey, let me do a little bit more tending to my needs during the day. Also, to connect to the needs before you do anything. In fact, I like to make a to-needs list instead of a to-do list. When you say, I have to do this laundry, but I hate doing laundry, so I'm going to play music, so at least it's not as boring.
00:27:48
Speaker
What I would say is, what need are you meeting by doing your laundry? Connect to that and say, I'm not going to do laundry if I don't feel like it. At some point, you're going to be pretty excited to do laundry. Maybe it's when you run out of clothes and you're like, oh, I better do laundry now because I'm out of clothes. But you want to not do something because you think you have to or you should, or it's the right thing to do. You want to do it because you're very clearly connected to the needs that it's meeting. And when that happens, it's so much easier to do anything.
00:28:16
Speaker
Yeah, actually knowing the why. Cause I know I'm also a people pleaser and I get to the point too, where, you know, you're doing, doing, doing, and then you eventually rebel from it anyway. And you're like, well, why am I doing this? But I, but I think we can do that to ourselves sometimes too. And I love the idea of having that, that list altogether, because I really think that we lack a lot of the vocabulary around it. And that so often when I, when I am stressed out or when I am feeling burned out,
00:28:43
Speaker
And I think a lot of us, it's not, oh, I feel burned out and this is why or whatever it's, I feel bad, I'm tired or whatever. It is very basic and it doesn't really tell you anything. And it doesn't really invite that curiosity that, you know, with some of the questions that you're asking of, well, why is this important to me? So I do love the idea of carrying that list with you and really using it to identify a little bit more.
00:29:09
Speaker
Yeah, because then you also, the flip side of that is you start seeing the cost of the other choices that you make. You know, a lot of us think, oh, well, I should do this. And if I don't do this, how does it get done? And so we get into this constricted mentality around these, like locked onto these strategies.
00:29:29
Speaker
but we're doing them resentfully and they have a huge cost. And when we can start connecting to that and then going backwards to identify the needs, what we find is there are a lot of ways to meet a particular need. And watch.
00:29:46
Speaker
Watch how quickly life becomes more wonderful when you don't do something until you're clear about the need that you're meeting. So if I do something for someone else, because I think I should, versus I connect to how it's contributing to their life, there's a totally different energy between the two. Right. When I go to work, because I think I have to, versus I'm choosing to, to meet X, Y, and Z need,
00:30:07
Speaker
Completely different and even if you can't get even if you're making a choice to say hey I can't think of a better way to meet my need for financial security right now, and I'm aware that I'm not meeting my needs for Balance and self-care because of this choice But I'm gonna put that on I'm gonna continue doing this while I get more clarity around new ways to meet my need for financial security and
00:30:30
Speaker
that better meet my need for balance and self-care. Going to work at that same job will shift. The feelings behind going to that same job that's burning you out will shift because of that clarity and that self-connection to all those needs.
00:30:42
Speaker
And you come from empowerment of choice. That's such a great point. And that was something I was going to ask about was I think for some people, while it is a choice, it's maybe it doesn't feel that way at the time or with that financial security or yes, you might look for other options, but you may not be able to right now. So I love that shift of I can't think of a better way to meet my needs, write my financial insecurity right now.
00:31:06
Speaker
I mean, I think that that is empowering, even if it's like, even if it's not the solution at this moment that I'm leaving this job and going on to whatever, it may not be something that we can do right now, but just shifting our mindsets there. I would imagine that feels like a weight lifted. Right. And there's people that don't have resources, right? That's a different, that's a survival need at that point.
00:31:29
Speaker
where you don't have resources and you're just surviving. A lot of people though that we come across have the resources to survive, but are still living in survival mode, right? Because they're making choices that are forcing them to live month to month and they're not forced. Those are the choices. I think when people connect to their choices and you may not always, we always have choice. We may not like our choices.
00:31:51
Speaker
but we always have choice. And I think even just that awareness shifts your physiology from a victim to a sense of agency and empowerment. And even that alone, when you're a victim, you're gonna go into high alert threat physiology versus when you're empowered, you're gonna feel much more safe. And so that's gonna shift your physiology, just doing that.
00:32:12
Speaker
Yeah, that really is so true. I think, again, just knowing that the choices we made, that that's what led us to where... I think it does. It gives you a better sense of, I can take matters into my own hands again, and the choices I continue to make are going to shape where I go from there. Because yeah, I think that immobilization, there comes a point where we just feel so stuck, and I think it's a powerful reminder.
00:32:36
Speaker
Right. As soon as you're stuck, you want to connect to your choice. I was talking to one woman who was saying, I live month to month and I have this job that I hate and I can't afford to do anything fun. And then we started saying, well, let's look at all of your choices. And she's choosing to live in this apartment instead of that apartment.
00:32:54
Speaker
one of this apartments more expensive, this neighborhood is more expensive. She's choosing because she likes the views and the light and the proximity to other things that she likes. And she's choosing this city over another city. And she's choosing this job because she doesn't know how to make money doing another job. But it doesn't mean it's not possible. So I think as just be aware that everything that people are doing, they have choice, even if they don't like them. And even if they're not sure about what other choices they can make.
00:33:22
Speaker
Well, I think that that's so important. And again, I really do love the empowerment piece there because I think that does take you out of that place of stuckness. I'd love to know with these practices in general, and I know that there are several pillars there, so probably a lot to choose from, but what are some of those steps we can start taking, especially I think when it comes to the self, but also even just when connecting with others in order to get ourselves, because that was something I really,
00:33:50
Speaker
found fascinating in the book too about how addiction is often rooted in that disconnection, maybe not the only reason, but definitely something that is correlated, whether it's drug and alcohol addiction or some of the addiction we don't think about that may be prevalent in our lives that we're not even aware of. So how do we get more connected to others and our sense of self and just in that authentic way?
00:34:15
Speaker
Right. Well, I mean, addiction to me is about people that are in pain.
00:34:20
Speaker
And doing something that you know is harming you, but choosing to do it anyway, if I'm sort of simplifying it, is a sign that somebody's in a lot of pain. And when they're in a lot of pain, they have needs that are going unmet. And a lot of people that are stuck in addiction, whether it's food addiction, drugs, alcohol, there's all sorts of addictions, but it all comes back down to pain and unmet needs. And connection, connecting not only to your own needs,
00:34:48
Speaker
but connecting to other people is the way out. And it's easier said than done, and a lot of times support is obviously really helpful. But how can we connect to ourselves and to other people? And when you're meeting your needs fully, there's no appeal of addiction anymore.
00:35:09
Speaker
All of your needs are met in ways that are health-promoting and life-serving. Life is what we would point out, life is wonderful. And when life is wonderful, addiction loses its appeal or its draw. So it's not that we have to get in the way of this addictive substance because there's studies that show that a substance being addictive alone is not enough to addict people. There has to be other circumstances
00:35:34
Speaker
beyond just the addictive substance to make the sort of the environment right for addiction to take hold. And I think that's where nonviolent communication really comes into play regarding showing up in authenticity and inviting authenticity. Right now, there often is a binary approach to connecting with people that leads to what can be described as artificial harmony. We either take care of
00:36:02
Speaker
ourselves or we do things out of obligation for others. And we find that when we're caught in a situation, we either suppress our own needs to acquiesce, accommodate, or appease others, or we alienate and are deemed selfish or self-motivated or whatever that is for taking care of our own needs. What nonviolent communication does is offer a third
00:36:29
Speaker
approach, an approach in which I can share my needs while holding and caring for your needs. And once those are both your needs and my needs are on the table, then and only then do we strategize together to see where in lies a strategy that can at least, if not address both needs, at least care for both of our needs.
00:36:57
Speaker
For example, I find myself sometimes really tired at the end of the day too. And I don't want to make dinner. It's the last thing that I want to actually, that I want or even have energy for. And I notice sometimes that I go about gathering the ingredients and I'm feeling truly resentful because I don't want to do this.
00:37:21
Speaker
In the past, it was two thoughts that came to my head. Well, if I don't do it, who's gonna make food for the family? And if I tell them I don't wanna cook, they're gonna be upset. So then what happens? And the result was often making dinner resentfully. The third option is to present to my family, hey guys, I am truly feeling so tired today. And noticing that I really am needing some rest and support.
00:37:49
Speaker
around dinner here, because I just don't feel like I have the energy to make dinner. And then we collaboratively decide what we're going to be doing with dinner. And all of a sudden, all these choices, well, Mom, maybe we can help you with dinner. Maybe we can order in. Maybe somebody else feels inspired to make dinner tonight. Maybe we can eat something really simple that doesn't require a lot of putting together. You see how all of a sudden, all of these choices became available? Yeah.
00:38:18
Speaker
And it's about the quality of the connection and caring more about the quality of the connection between you and the other person or people than it is about getting something done or agreeing on strategy. A lot of people think in the terms of what do I need to do? What needs to be done? How do we get that done? What are we going to do? And we stop focusing on what to do and trust that if we really get to that quality of connection with the other person, there'll be so many different ways that we can do that we'll have a menu to pick from. So like in Alona's example,
00:38:46
Speaker
She gave you a bunch of different strategies, but the key is there's a shift when she says, I'm feeling a little nervous because there's a part of me that thinks I really should make dinner
Nonviolent Communication and Relationships
00:38:57
Speaker
if I'm a good wife or mother. And at the same time, there's a part of me that doesn't want to make dinner. And I just want to share with you all how I'm feeling and I'm curious how that is to hear that, right? So my request is not about doing something, it's about connecting.
00:39:10
Speaker
I want to know how they feel when they hear what I just shared. And then through that, they're going to say, oh, well, she cares how I feel about this. She's not telling me she's making dinner or she's not making dinner. She's focusing on the quality connection. And then they come towards her and say, oh, I'm really glad you told me this. Or hey, you know, I'm really pretty hungry.
00:39:27
Speaker
And I'm a little nervous and I'm confused by the way you're talking. I mean, it can be a whole range of things, right? But the point is it's about the quality of the connection through that. Eventually they're going to care about her. She's going to care about them. That's going to be so clear. Then as a team, you figure out what to do. That happens pretty easily afterwards.
00:39:44
Speaker
Yeah. And I think there's always the resentment too for a lot of people of, well, these people didn't, you know, whether it's family, friends, roommates, whoever's listening, that, well, they didn't read my mind. They just didn't, they should have known that this is what I wanted or that I would never want to do this after this kind of day. And I mean, I know for me personally, it's always harmful to the relationship if I do the thing resentfully and then maybe I'm going to snap about something later. If I just say, Hey, can you help
00:40:11
Speaker
me? Or this is how I'm feeling? What are your thoughts? What can we do? It goes so much better than again, me doing the thing resentfully being on a shorter fuse and then getting angry about something that I don't need to be angry about. And that never would have made me angry if I had just kind of voiced my
00:40:30
Speaker
my feelings earlier on and I also think that when you're on the flip side of it when your loved one is the one who is coming home exhausted and feeling that resentment or feeling that exhaustion whatever and we can sense something is off but we don't know how we can help or what exactly is the culprit and for many of us if when our loved one is going through whatever it is we want to help we just don't know how or
00:40:55
Speaker
what they need and just having the conversation and kind of putting that out there. It's helpful on both sides. Absolutely. Absolutely.
00:41:03
Speaker
Yeah, just just that care for the other person, what's going on inside of them. And caring about that before you're like, I got to get them to do something, I got to get them to stop doing something like that. With kids, it's usually you want to try and get them to stop doing something with your partners is usually you want to get them to do something. But it's that, hey, I don't we're not going to talk about doing or not doing. I'm going to talk about what's going on inside of you, what matters to you. I'd like you to hear what matters to me. And I'm going to trust that if we care about each other in that way, we'll figure out what to do.
00:41:33
Speaker
It's so freeing, but it takes a little bit of trust, almost like a leap of faith. Because a lot of people are like, are the dishes really going to get done if we do this? Is my kid's room really going to get clean if we do it this way? Right. And it's freeing not only on the front end, but on the back end as well, because just like you mentioned, so you get into that fight and then you're angry. The other person's angry.
00:41:53
Speaker
this is going on and perseverating in your head, all that anger and frustration and that resentment. And that just sits for a really long time versus the time that it can take to come to some kind of connection and then take it from there and then feel that liberated expansiveness ongoing.
00:42:16
Speaker
And the strategies can sometimes be the exact same, but the energy behind them will be different. I mean, that happened today in a meeting for us. And before going to the meeting, there was this sort of feeling a little bit deflated and down and disappointed. And it was because there was strategies discussed before that quality connection was tended to. And we said, hey, let's get on a call. Let's just focus on caring for each other.
00:42:39
Speaker
sharing what's going on in each of us that's behind the proposed strategies. And then we'll figure out what to do after. And we got on the call and we cared about it. We heard each other. We cared about each other's needs. More came out authentically. It was more vulnerable. There was so much compassion for each other. And then the strategies were almost so clear that, but then everybody was sort of energized.
00:43:02
Speaker
right? It made so much sense. So it was real and the strategies were the same, but the energy behind them was so different because we focused on the connection.
00:43:10
Speaker
Yeah, I think that's huge. And I think that, again, that's just something we don't often think about. We think, well, it's going to hurt the connection if I don't do the things that I'm, quote unquote, expected to do or that I said that I would do at a very different time when I didn't know that I'd be coming home feeling this way or approaching this in the way that I'm feeling. And yeah, I think it just really is a lot more of an authentic way to approach the relationships in our lives.
00:43:38
Speaker
So I love that. I really love the focus on the relationships with the people in our lives and with ourselves and the work that you're doing and how we can really create this holistic approach to our wellness. And I think something that has kind of been touched on a little here and there about in the program and within the book, I think creating that sense of purpose and really having that purpose behind the things that we do is
00:44:01
Speaker
so, so important. And I'd love to know for you, what ways can we really create that better sense of purpose and meaning in our lives and really start to embody that? Yeah, I mean, for me, that whether you're a child or an adult, it's why are you getting out of bed in the morning? What's the reason even if all of your physical needs were met? I mean, some people survival, that's why they're getting in bed at bed, but that's not really
00:44:25
Speaker
enough in the end, but sometimes you don't have time to think about it until you've dealt with the survival needs. But assuming survival needs are met, why are you getting out of bed in the morning? Why continue living? And that is an important question. And sometimes you don't know what it is, but even connecting, saying, hey, I don't know what my reason is for getting up, but I know I'm connecting to my need for meaning and purpose. I know that's really valuable, and I'm going to spend time now connecting with people and meeting all these other beautiful needs, being open to sort of
00:44:54
Speaker
that need for meaning and purpose unfolding when it's ready. So even, do you see what I'm saying? So you don't have to have it all figured out right now to get into that state of life is wonderful. You don't have to have all your needs met. You have to connect about, connect to them and just connecting to them, even when they're not met brings a sense of peace, right? So that awareness is going to be really fueling and supportive.
00:45:15
Speaker
I think that's such a great point because I think for a lot of us when we hear, you know, what is your life purpose or what is it that you're passionate about that you were meant to do? And it's really easy to get either disconnected from that or you know, you're going through the motions, you're doing the things that you feel
00:45:31
Speaker
need to be done, whatever it is, and defining that for ourselves and maybe in those cycles that we've gotten into with life's expectations that we've kind of, again, spiraled into. And I think knowing that it's okay not to know what that reason is, but to be searching for it and to let that be the motivation.
Finding Purpose and Meaning
00:45:52
Speaker
Because I think that there's something really beautiful in that too, just looking for that meaning and continuing to put ourselves out there into the world and continuing to serve in whatever way.
00:46:01
Speaker
until we get there. Yeah. That, to me, is going to get heading towards your need for meaning and purpose, even if you don't know what it is, makes doing all the other stuff worthwhile versus just saying, I'm stuck in this job.
00:46:16
Speaker
and it's not meeting my need for meaning and purpose, is a really sad, it's very, it's disheartening, you know, I feel discouraged. But if I say, I'm in this job, I'm choosing to be in this job, I just connected to my need for meaning and purpose and how it's not being met right now, and I'm going to spend some time, and this is the strategy, what's gonna get me closer? And it might be, I'm gonna spend 15 minutes just journaling about all the things I would do if I won the lottery tomorrow.
00:46:42
Speaker
Right. I mean, I mean, I'm just throwing things out, but it's so many ways. Yeah. And maybe it's even finding meaning and purpose outside of your job. Maybe it's volunteering or contributing in other ways that provide the meaning and purpose. Right. And allow you to remain in that current job with, again, a different attitude because you are meeting needs for meaning and purpose elsewhere. Right. And then you connect to the needs your job is meeting. If it's just meeting a need for financial security,
00:47:11
Speaker
most people, if they're really self-connected, are probably going to want to explore if there's other opportunities, right? Or why am I choosing to live in a way that this is the only job and the only need that it's meeting is to pay me so much money that I can live in this certain way. But usually there's other needs that are met in a job, right, where
00:47:31
Speaker
connection with people, fun, community. Sometimes there's learning and growth. Sometimes there's just sort of predictability and some ease, right? So there's lots of different needs that can be met at your work, even if it's not meeting, like Alona said, meaning and purpose.
00:47:47
Speaker
That's so true. And even thinking about maybe your job gives you, whether it's the time or the freedom, whatever it is for the particular structure of the job, but maybe it gives you the freedom to volunteer your time, or to do whatever it is, or they've been able to at least connect you with a nonprofit or with something. I remember taking an assessment a couple of years ago for skills. And one of the areas that they focused on was the unrealized potential of what were things that really light you up.
00:48:16
Speaker
and that you're good at, but that you don't spend the time on and that in theory should try to find ways to bring into your life. And two of those areas were creativity and then legacy, basically purpose, but knowing that my work was making a difference because I felt that in the job, I wasn't necessarily bringing that to the table. But then when I kind of zoomed out a little bit and even spoke with some friends realizing a creativity, it's like, I host a podcast.
00:48:42
Speaker
And I can give back in that way and some of the nonprofit work that I do and that there were things I was doing. I just had to think about it a little bit differently and realizing that while the day to day was not necessarily doing those things, I had the means and the time then to
00:49:00
Speaker
devote to those and to fulfill me in those ways. And then knowing that maybe career-wide, like I met my best friend at that company and a lot of the opportunities that I had that, you know, you're so right, the learning and the growth and just the life lessons. I mean, it wasn't just the financial and taking more of that bird's eye look at it gave me more of that sense of purpose and gave me a little more fulfillment in what I was doing.
00:49:26
Speaker
Mm hmm. Exactly. I love that. I think that this work is so impactful. And I love forks over knives. And I think the plant based lifestyle, I think that that's so I think it's incredible. I think that there's so much that we can do in so many different areas of our health and wellness in order to really thrive in our lives. But I love that you're taking this approach to like, if you're eating all of the right foods, you're getting the movement, but you're still having these challenges, how can how can you
00:49:55
Speaker
get to that place of wonderful. I think that this is so needed. They're not separate, too. So connection, when you are more connected to yourself or to other people, you are energized and it meets needs for hope and inspiration, that you have more energy and desire to take care of yourself and meet your needs for nutrition.
00:50:17
Speaker
and sleep and tend to those pillars. So they're also bi-directional. When you tend to your pillars for sleep and nutrition and activity and play, you're more resourced to be able to connect. And when you're more connected to these other family and friends and work and spirituality and the world around you,
00:50:34
Speaker
you're energized and want to take care of yourself. So to me, they also help each other, which is really important. That's why we have them in that infinity loop. In other words, there's a flow, there's attending to each pillar, but then one pillar affects the other pillar and vice versa.
00:50:49
Speaker
Yeah. And I mean, I even think about, you know, with that level of energy, I think about the people pleasing versus doing maybe helping people because it's what I feel called to do and because it's the, you know, because it is fulfilling. And there's such a difference between looking into, well, I'm doing this because I feel that I have to and because.
00:51:07
Speaker
this is the expectation versus this is a cause that's really meaningful to me or helping this particular person or being whatever support I can connecting with an individual or a cause that this is something that is really important to me versus again, that while I have to do it, I'm expected to do it. So there's such a different level of energy. Exactly. Yeah.
00:51:29
Speaker
Yeah. I come home feeling very differently from each of those. Well, that's fantastic. And I, yeah, I think again, this is, this is such important work. I'm really excited to see where you go from here. And I'm definitely going to ask you more as well about your platform. But before we do that, I'd love to ask you a few rapid fire questions so the listeners can get to know you both a little bit better too. Okay. Sure. Fabulous.
00:51:54
Speaker
Now we've been getting into a lot of these, but what would you each say is your favorite self-care practice right now? For me, it's I do a stretching routine before I go to bed, and then I do a little bit of sitting in the dark room in my bed before I lay down and go to sleep. So I wait until I'm really, really tired, sitting in my bed, and then I fall asleep very quickly right after that. I live and get lost in fantasy books.
00:52:23
Speaker
Do you have a favorite right now or a favorite series right now?
00:52:26
Speaker
Oh God, my all time favorite is probably Harry Potter. Oh yeah. That's awesome. I've, I've been glued to my library app lately. And actually that's what I'll do a lot of the time when I'm, when I'm on my walks, I'll have one of my books going, but Harry Potter, I hosted a Triwizard tournament in college. So I am right there with you. That's awesome. Now, if you had a one word theme for this year, this time in life, what would that one word theme be?
00:52:56
Speaker
For me, the image is coming of like surfing, like just sort of ups and downs and all around. I like that. I think for me, it's reflection. Oh, yeah. I think that that's so important. I love both of those. I think kind of different visuals there, but you kind of water with both in a sense. Yeah, really. Yeah, that's cool. And what are you each looking forward to the most right now? And this could be personal, professional, any area that you'd like to share.
00:53:26
Speaker
There's some opportunities we had with our pillars within our family and our children. And like we said, it's not about being perfect or being on the path at all the time. It's about knowing when you're off the path and how to get back on. And we've made some changes as a family that have been really impactful.
00:53:44
Speaker
I would definitely resonate with the gift life has given us recently around the health of one of our daughters and just an opportunity to step back and really look at these nine pillars as a family and have an opportunity to tend to them in a way that just over a matter of a couple of weeks, we're seeing significant
00:54:10
Speaker
shifts that have just been amazing. That's beautiful. I'm so happy to hear that. To be able to practice that with family and to see those shifts, I mean, I'm very happy to hear that.
00:54:22
Speaker
Thank you. Yeah. Yeah. Well, this has been amazing. And as I said, I've really loved your book. I love the work that you both do. And I'm so excited to share this with the listeners. I'd love for you to share with them a little bit more about the book, where they can find it, how they can connect with you, and a little more about the We Heal platform so that they can again, get connected.
00:54:46
Speaker
So the book is Wellness to Wonderful. You can get it on Amazon.com and print or Kindle or audiobook. It's also available on iBooks or iTunes. And then our website is weheal.health and you can go there for information about working individually with us or our team or there's some classes we're going to put together a Wellness to Wonderful class that Alona and I are going to teach for people
00:55:10
Speaker
who want to jump in and start making these changes. So that'll be coming soon and join our mailing list around that.
Exploring 'Wellness to Wonderful' and We Heal
00:55:18
Speaker
I think that pretty much covers it. All right.
00:55:22
Speaker
Fantastic. Well, I'm going to make sure to link those in the show notes again. I hope the listeners order your book. It's really, I think it's such a great way to look at wellness because I think it's just a holistic thing. And while the food and you know, our nutrition and our movement, those are all really impactful. I think it's also the way that we're approaching it and the, and the mental, spiritual, emotional, all of that is, I mean, it all comes together and the thoughts that are going through our minds every single day. I mean, that,
00:55:49
Speaker
plays such a role. And so I absolutely love the work that you're doing. And I want to thank you so much for not only this work, but for coming on the show and sharing your story and your wisdom with us. Our pleasure. Thank you so much for having us and for your resonance with the message. It's, it feels so wonderful for, for me. Yes. Thank you very much. We really appreciate your support and encouragement.
00:56:14
Speaker
I absolutely loved this conversation with Doctors Polde and Letterman, and I really appreciate the emphasis on Wonderful and their work. I think so often we focus on the things we think we should do, and we put a lot of pressure on ourselves to hit specific milestones in wellness goals without really focusing on the bigger picture and empowering ourselves with our choices. I really enjoyed their book, Wellness to Wonderful, and I encourage you to check it out. I've linked everything in the show notes that you can connect and learn more.
00:56:42
Speaker
I want to thank Dr. Polde and Dr. Letterman for coming on the show. It truly was an honor. As always, thank you all for joining me here today. If you have any questions or suggestions for the show, you can drop me a line at Valerie at wellnessandwonderlust.net or at wellnessandwonderlustblog on Instagram. If the show resonates with you, consider leaving us a review on your favorite podcast app,
00:57:04
Speaker
I appreciate each and every one of you for being a part of this incredible community. I am so looking forward to our next conversation. Until then, take care.