Transcript
Speaker: Welcome to the wellness and wanderlust podcast. We're here to demystify wellness and help you add a little adventure to your life. Tune in for a new episode every week, where we'll hear from incredible guests and talk about ways to be happier and healthier in our new normal. I'm your host, Valerie Moses. Let's get started.
Speaker: Hello, my friends. I am so happy that you're here for episode 144 of this show. Wellness and Wanderlust is your one -stop shop for all things health and happiness, and I'm truly grateful to each and every one of you for being a part of this incredible community. Thank you for being here and sharing this journey with me. This week's guest is Alan Questel, author of Practiced Intentional Acts of Kindness and Like Yourself More.
Speaker: Alan's mission is to spread kindness in the world and his work really is impactful. In our conversation, he shares what we can do to like ourselves more and how we could be more intentional in our acts of kindness. We also discuss ways to practice kindness without being taken advantage of and while respecting our own boundaries, making sustainable habit changes, how to become better listeners and much, much more. I'm really excited for you to hear this conversation. So enough from me, let's dive in to episode 144 with Alan Questall.
Speaker: Alan, thank you so much for joining us at Wellness in Wonderland. Well, thank you for having me. It's a pleasure to be here with you. Well, it's a pleasure to have you on the show. Tell our listeners where you're recording from right now. I'm actually in Brussels, Belgium right now, where I've been for about two weeks. And then on two days, I'll be heading off to the south of France for a month to work.
Speaker: Well, that is amazing. Definitely a combination of wellness and wanderlust with the work you do. And very excited to really get into that. You are in a great place for chocolate, which my family is very excited about. Why don't you first start out? Just tell our listeners a little bit about you. Okay. So I'm a practitioner and trainer and educational director of professional Feldenkrais training programs.
Speaker: What that is is a movement technique that's based on learning theories. And we work with people with orthopedic neurological problems, all kinds of pain, and their self -image. And it's the self -image part that kind of guided me to more of the work that I'm doing now around kindness.
Speaker: I think that that's amazing as I really do think self -image plays such a role in our physical wellness as well. And for you, with the work you do around kindness, first and foremost, because I think so many of us define it differently, how do you personally define kindness? Oh, that's a good question. I would say kindness is taking care of ourselves and another.
Speaker: in an authentic and genuine way and a way that supports our own internal desires of who we want to be and those of us around us as well. I love that. That's the best definition I've heard. And I think it really is, you know, we were talking at the, before we hit record and how kindness, I mean, this is a topic that is important all the time, no matter what's going on in the world. And I'd love to know, how did you get into this type of work and what inspired you?
Speaker: Well, in the Feldenkrais Method, there's two modalities to it. There's a hands -on part and there are classes. And in the classes that we teach, they're called Awareness Through Movement. And really, we're exploring functional movements that actually can relate to our everyday life that generally evoke a more skeletal use of ourselves so that our musculature can quiet down and rest a little bit.
Speaker: And we're always interested in the quality of how people move. And I actually started playing with the idea of asking people to move in a way that they like the way it feels. And there's actually something that began before that with this part of this, which is I was creating a workshop on self -image and I started to think that our self -image is really a reflection of how much I like myself or how much I don't like myself.
Speaker: So if I have a good self -image, I like myself. And if it's not so good, I don't like myself. And after playing with that idea for a while, I thought, this is my job to help people like themselves more. And I have the really good fortune to be teaching the work that I do. And I can do it by helping people starting by moving in a way that they like the way it feels. And I think what's important about this is that the work I mentioned is called Awareness Through Movement.
Speaker: If I stop 20 people on the street and I said, would you like to be more aware? Some of them would go, huh? And I mean, it's not a consideration for them. But if I stop 20 people on the street and I said, would you like to like yourself more?
Speaker: I've never had anyone say no to that question. Now, the thing is the way we go about liking ourselves generally, and it's not bad or anything, but it's externally oriented. I get a new clothing or a new partner or a new apartment or a new job, and all of those things work to help me like myself more, but they're all generated externally. And I found that by learning how to move,
Speaker: not just in the classes that I teach, but in our everyday life, moving in a way that I like the way it feels starts to permeate through the rest of my life. And I think one of the best examples of this, my training programs are four years long. And I had one training in Australia when I started teaching this idea more and more. And when they graduated, you know, I'd call them up and give them a certificate.
Speaker: And they would hug me and so many people whispered in my ear, I like myself more. And I thought, wow, that made everything worthwhile for me. So it began with that. And I would say that the idea of liking ourselves more, which is fundamental to our wellbeing in the world, I started to think, well, that's interpersonal.
Speaker: How can I make it more interpersonal? And that's when it came to me that I realized that every time I do an act of kindness, I like myself more. And it's not to do kind acts, I pat myself on the back or anything like that, but I found that, oh, this was a really useful way to generate a feeling towards myself, with myself, and to help the world as well.
Speaker: I love that. And I think that first of all, that awareness through movement and being more aware of what feels good for us, I don't think that's something that many of us take into account in our day to day, I think sometimes we'll think about I don't like how something feels, but I think oftentimes we'll struggle with what do I actually like. And I think that that
Speaker: not liking ourselves, not liking ourselves as much as we could. I think everybody listening, as you said, would say, yes, I would love to like myself more. Why do you think we struggle with that? Why do we have trouble liking ourselves? You know, that's a really, that's a big cultural worldwide question because, you know, again, I work all over the world and I've yet to have been to a place
Speaker: where it seems to be part of their culture. I think that we all struggle with it and I can't say it's modern times. I think this probably existed generations ago for people. I think it comes out of a deeper sense of who I wanna be and what I'd like to be. And nowadays things go so fast and there's so much comparison that it makes it even harder to like ourselves more. But it's a big challenge, it is.
Speaker: And again, like I said, for most of us, it's externally oriented. And moving is something that's immediate and concrete. In the book I have on kindness, one of the chapters is talking about moving with a sense of pleasure. Look, I can ask you a question or I ask this question sometimes. When do you decide to get comfortable?
Speaker: That's a great question. I think sometimes when I'm really uncomfortable. Yeah, that's it. That's when we get comfortable. But now, if we think about that and we all do that, it's kind of cuckoo. That means I have to be uncomfortable before I get comfortable. And that's something that, you know who doesn't do that? Is a child playing around. And a child, you can see like a four or five year old drawing on the floor.
Speaker: and they're sitting this way and they're sitting that way and they're drawing upside down and everything. But they never get up and say, oh mommy, I have a stiff hip. Because they're regulating themselves continually through a state of comfort, the feeling state of pleasure when they do something like that. And that's something where maybe I can be comfortable
Speaker: But then I can pose the question, hey, can I be more comfortable? Like you now, me now. When I said that just now, I adjusted myself a little bit as I was sitting. And maybe people who are listening will hear that idea and go, wait a minute, I could actually be a little bit more comfortable. And it's kind of a mystery to me how we've lost that as children. Or maybe it's not a mystery, maybe it's school.
Speaker: and the kind of clothes that we're taught to wear and stuff and sit still and all that stuff that inhibits our feeling ourselves more clearly. Yeah. I mean, I think about for me personally, and I hadn't thought about this before, but I started getting massages more recently and it's been a really nice way for me to kind of care for myself and feel better in my body, but I didn't start doing it until I hurt myself.
Speaker: Right. Yeah. And I wasn't scheduling those things because I was feeling kind of hurt. And now I've started going a little bit more just for that time because it feels so good. But I never I never would have started had I not been in serious pain and needing, you know, and and I think that we do wait so often till we get to that point.
Speaker: We wait, and I think there's another factor too, and it's a tough one, which is, you know, it's like if I'm in pain, I have a good reason to go get a massage, right? It's like, okay, I can do that. But if I'm not in pain, there's a question of, and it sounds a little strange, but I think it's true.
Speaker: Do I deserve it? Am I worth it? Is it worthy of me to spend my money and time doing something just for the sake of feeling better? That's culturally like a little taboo for us. I'm glad you're getting massages. That's good.
Speaker: It's been so nice. And, and I do, I still sometimes when I'm driving over there, I have that sense of, um, yeah, that guilt a little bit of, well, should I be putting this toward something else? And why am I taking this time when I could be getting things done or whatever it is? And I have to fight with those thoughts quite a bit, but definitely, yeah, the physical, I mean, it, yes, it's a reason. And.
Speaker: Certainly, it's helped me a lot physically, but it's mental and emotional for me as well. In my book, when I got to the part about being kind to ourselves, which is, I think, what you're talking about, I got blocked for about five years. I was like, whoa, I need to learn more about this. It's not an easy thing to be kind to ourselves. People are much better at being kind to other people.
Speaker: to be kind to ourselves. And like you said, it's challenging. It takes some work to understand our background, where we come from, why it's an issue, and to come to some new ground where I feel like, you know what, I'm going to take better care of myself.
Speaker: When it comes to incorporating this kindness into our lives, does it make more sense to start with ourselves or does it make more sense to start with the others around us? Like where do we start? You know, I don't know that there's like a correct place to start. I think we can start wherever we have a doorway that opens for us, whether it's being kind to others. Like I was describing for me, I didn't really have any problem being kind to other people. But when I thought about being kind to myself, I got a little blocked.
Speaker: And so some people are really good at taking care of themselves. We know people like this probably who aren't so responsive to others. So wherever we start, I can say one thing that's pretty fundamental as far as I'm concerned about the whole idea of kindness is that it takes practice. Like, you know, I'm talking about liking ourselves more. Honestly, I like myself, but I'm still learning to like myself more.
Speaker: And I keep running into parts of myself where I go, oh, there's some work for me to do to move beyond that. And the same thing with other people. As much as I practice being kind to other people, I find there are places where I could do better. I could do better. But it's a change in our self -image to do something like that. Here's an example of it, maybe. So in terms of being kind to other people, so one of the things I investigate in the book is about generosity.
Speaker: Generosity is often equated with kindness. Oh, he's so kind. He's so generous. People put those in the same sentence very often. And I had this idea. I was always, I think, a fair tipper in restaurants, you know, that I would give 20%. And when I grew up, it was 15%. And I thought, no, I'm going to give more. And writing the book, I thought, OK, what if for every $5 tip,
Speaker: I add a dollar. And you know, so if it's $10, Tip, I give $12. If it's $15, I give $18. And I was in a restaurant with some friends just at the time I was writing this, and the bill was about $75, and I took the check. And so a 20 % Tip would have put another $15 onto it, let's say, so it would have been $90.
Speaker: And I had a $100 bill, and I had the thought, oh, I'm going to give the $100. And you know what happened? I clutched inside. I went, oh, no, that's too much. I can't do that. That's way out of proportion. And I went, wait a minute. That's exactly what I'm talking about. That's where the learning happens and the struggle happens.
Speaker: Well, I gave the $100 and it was not so easy. But then the best thing that happened was when I was leaving the restaurant, the waitress came up to me and said, you just made my night. And I went, oh, that was really worth it to make someone else a little happier. So it's work. It really is. The book is a workbook. It's not like just be nice to people or something like that. These are things we need to really learn how to do better, I think.
Speaker: That's what I love with the title of your book, because I think we we often hear random acts of kindness, but that you're focused on these intentional acts of kindness. Intentional is my word for this year. So it's a nice tie in and something I'm trying to incorporate more. How do we start to practice those acts of kindness more intentionally and really start to
Speaker: incorporate them into our lives? Well, in each chapter of the book, I'm actually writing about concrete things that we can do towards ourselves, with ourselves, and towards them with others as well. So what I just described was an idea about generosity. There are other ideas in there as well, or I think another place that we can really be kind to others
Speaker: is through how we listen to others. I think that often we're listening just to get our words in next. And we're not really taking the time to listen to someone. And you asked me about how I came to all of this. And actually, there's another avenue that brought me here. And it was my dad at some point in his life who ran out of money. And fortunately, my brother and I were able to help him out.
Speaker: And then he got dementia. And we finally had to put him in a home. And it was in Florida where my stepmother lived, but she was going to New York for the summer. And I thought, he's all alone. No one's going to visit him. There's no one there. And I have to say, I wasn't close to my dad. It wasn't a bad relationship. But you know, if we talked once a month, that was exceptional, I think. And anyway, I got this idea to start to call him every day.
Speaker: And I made it into a habit. And the way I talk about it later is just to give your attention to someone for five minutes a day, which it doesn't sound like a lot, but it is not easy. I would try to give my dog five minutes a day and after like two minutes of petting him, I was off to check my email again. It's like, how do I listen to people better?
Speaker: kind of quiet myself and take in what they're saying. I don't need to do anything about what they're saying. But if someone feels listened to, that's a big deal, I think. So listening is another one. I think we can be more honest with others. And that takes some skill too, kind of a tough love thing to be able to say to someone, you know,
Speaker: I have a colleague here right now that I'm working with. She's teaching here for me. And this morning we met for class and she said, you know, I got a little upset because when you tease me too much and I went, oh, yeah, I can understand that. And, you know, she had the courage to say something to me and I was able to listen and go, yeah, you're right.
Speaker: You know, I do, I play that game sometimes and we, you know, we did, we created a signal so that if I'm doing that again, she just gives me a certain look and I go, oh, time to stop. So it's all about communication and listening and, uh, yeah.
Speaker: I think that that can be so scary sometimes communicating what we need. And we worry that even though that is essentially a kind thing to do because it's going to improve the relationship, I think we worry that it's going to add some tension. But I think the people that care about us, they want to know that something is maybe bothering us or hurting us if we just take that minute. But it is a scary thing.
Speaker: It is. It definitely is. And, you know, here's the sense it's kind of like the bad news about doing something like that, which is the only way we get better at it is by making mistakes. We talk to a friend and you think you're talking in an easy way to explain something and they get really angry with you.
Speaker: And you go, oh, man, I shouldn't have said it like that. But the next time, we know better. So each time I make a mistake, I mean, in the moment, I'm not so happy. But later on, it's like, oh, I'm not going to do that one again. I can pay attention better to that. But I keep making mistakes. You know why I make a lot of mistakes is with my humor. So I use humor a lot when I teach.
Speaker: I think my humor is pretty well developed at this point, but when I start to teach, I actually start every context I'm in by saying, you know, I use humor when I teach, and sometimes it's not funny. And people kind of giggle at that.
Speaker: But the thing is, if I make a joke that someone doesn't like, I've crossed an invisible boundary. I can't know it till I've crossed it already. And it's too late. It's not too late. I mean, what I can do is go, I'm sorry. Did that joke upset you? And you know what people do? They go, no, I'm fine. And I go, well, if it did, I'm sorry. So I keep looking to learn about that. And I can't prevent everyone from getting upset by a joke. It's going to happen. But in the same way, if I'm
Speaker: if I'm being more forthright or honest. When people are claiming they're being honest with each other, often they're being critical and they're not the same thing.
Speaker: It's not about me telling you what you did wrong. That's criticism. But if you do something that upsets me, I can say, I need to talk to you about something that upset me, right? And so it's for both of us to learn something. I need to maybe not be as sensitive about those things, or maybe the person needs to hear. Like this friend of mine who's working for me, where she said, you were teasing me too much. And I went, oh.
Speaker: and she got upset and I was teasing her too much. We have a playful relationship and it's fun most of the time except when it isn't, you know. Yeah, I think there really is such a power in that and also just because sometimes, well, intention doesn't always excuse a behavior but sometimes having those conversations you could find out that something was lost in translation or that there is
Speaker: a better way to communicate something and yeah, it really does get easier with time. It's something I struggle with, but I'm trying to work on is bringing those things up when it when it does bother me, but it is something that the more that I do it, I think it really does improve those relationships instead of carrying maybe that resentment.
Speaker: Right. And one of the markers I use for it myself, if I've had an upset with someone, I'm upset with them for some reason, and I kind of go through it in my head a number of rounds and then finally I go, okay, I'm fine. And then if someone mentions that person's name and it sets off all these stories in my head,
Speaker: Or if just I'm on a bus not thinking of anything and all of a sudden that conversation comes up in my head again, I realize I'm not finished with this. So, you know, what are the choices? I can let it go. And if I really let it go, it's gone. I'm done. That's fine. But if I find myself returning to it, even once every six months, it's unfinished business. And that's the moment where I've learned to kind of
Speaker: really kind of make myself contact the person and say, first ask, can we have a conversation? Not to tell them what the problem is. And then maybe even say that it might be an awkward conversation.
Speaker: And what I've discovered is that in the people who I say that to, if they say yes, it doesn't mean that it's easy. We may go back and forth and argue a little bit, but we can usually get through it. But some people say, nope, I'm not interested. And you know what? I realize I stopped being friends with those people because they're not valuing our relationship in a way that I am. And if they don't want to get to a better ground with it, then
Speaker: What's the point? Why am I friends with that person?
Speaker: That provides a sense of closure too. Right. Exactly. Yeah. I'm not going to carry the grudge if I don't really care. Yeah. These are such valuable lessons for us to be taking with us and things that could really improve our relationships and overall, I guess, quality of life. I do sometimes worry. I do try to practice kindness to the best of my ability. Do what I can to help others. And one thing that loved ones have said before and that I sometimes worry about is
Speaker: the potential to be taken advantage of. And I'd love to know, how do we practice that kindness wholeheartedly while still maintaining those boundaries? Yeah, I think that's really important. I think that if I do something that I feel taken advantage of, the word that comes to mind for me, which is actually a word that I keep playing with
Speaker: as an idea for another book is I feel offended. And I think when someone's offended, I think offended is like the umbrella feeling or the umbrella label for all kinds of negative feelings. So there's anger or resentment or jealousy or hurt. And I think that's what, look, if I feel taken advantage of, I can go to that person and say, that wasn't a very good experience for me. Many times
Speaker: And the person responds, oh my God, I didn't mean to do that. I had no intention to hurt you or upset you in any way like that.
Speaker: And again, that's the learning for both of us. But if I feel taken advantage of, I can also look at it as a measure of my own self -worth. Like, why would I be offended by that? Why would I feel so taken advantage of? And there are times when people really do take advantage of us, but that's an indication that we just don't need a relationship with someone like that.
Speaker: I have one friend who often describes to me their relationship with another friend in a way that I go, why are you still friends with that? And they don't treat you well. And so if I'm not treated well, now again, I wouldn't just say I was taken advantage of, so I'm not going to call them anymore. That's kind of passive aggressive. I think I need to be able to see if there can be a conversation that resolves it so that there's understanding for both of us.
Speaker: I think we all know that in any relationship when we have a fight with someone, there's a chance to deepen the relationship. Who doesn't have fights? The question is how do you get through them? Where does it take you? And I guess the only fights that are a little more precarious are the ones where a trust is broken.
Speaker: And, you know, if trust is really broken, then I think it's a factor of time. But then at a certain time, you have to go, OK, I'm done being upset about this. That's not kind to myself or to the other person either. Yeah, it can either be fixed in time or it can't. Right. Yeah.
Speaker: Well, I think that that's again, that's so important to be able to have these conversations and to deepen the relationships to the best of our abilities. When, you know, when, when these situations come up, when being kinder to ourselves, I think, again, this is such a struggle we've, we've
Speaker: talked about. And sometimes I think we take on new practices that we're excited about. We may be at a positive moment in our lives where it's easy to start practicing that kindness. But how do we do that when we're going through maybe a difficult time? We have some kind of challenge going on. Yeah. Some people may not like what I'm going to say. But in my lifetime, I've done therapy a number of times.
Speaker: I came to the conclusion finally that I should really go into therapy when I'm already feeling good about myself, not when I'm struggling. Because I can do better work then. When I'm struggling, it's harder. And so, you know, how do we be kind to ourselves when it's a difficult time? The only place that I can start with is something really small.
Speaker: Not to do a whole overhaul of my whole life and what I'm doing and I need to change everything, but to find a way of something. Is there some little act that I can do towards myself regularly to help me get through it? And that could be meditating. That could be getting a manicure or a massage. That could be putting a few dollars away each week to buy something that I want. You know, that I'm in the direction
Speaker: of doing something. And if I'm struggling with it a lot, I meet so many people who struggle. And the way it's always couched to me is they don't like themselves. How do we start with that? If you can walk from the kitchen to your bedroom in a pleasurable way and practice that.
Speaker: But it's not going to happen. You have to be attentive. You know, I had a kind of unusual experience last, I think, October. I was teaching in New York at the Omega Institute. And this isn't meant to be unkind, because I can probably include myself in this. That as I was walking around, there were many other workshops going on there. It's a big, big center. And I just had this strong kind of visceral sense
Speaker: Everyone here is suffering a little bit. Let me think about it. Why do people take all these workshops of bettering themselves, of learning about themselves? It's because we want to feel better about ourselves.
Speaker: And so a workshop can do it. But then how many workshops can you take? Again, I'm of the mind where what can you do every day? Like me calling my dad every day. I didn't like doing that at first. It became a habit. If we can train ourselves a little bit better and it takes some power to do that, to say, I'm going to do this.
Speaker: In one chapter in the book, I'm talking about doing one thing well. So here, I moved out of my parents' house. I grew up in New York City, and I moved out of their house when I was 19. And I was living by myself, and I had the realization that I don't do anything well.
Speaker: Which is kind of funny because I was a complete failure at 19. I'm not old enough to have enough experience to fail. But that was the feeling I had about myself. And I had the thought of, I'm going to learn to do one thing well. And the thing I picked was brushing my teeth.
Speaker: I thought, huh, no one's going to know if I do it well or not. Maybe the dentist, you know, that's it, right? And I thought, I'm just going to get better at brushing my teeth. And if, you know, if I, like I said, if I failed at it, if I skipped it, who was going to know, right?
Speaker: But over time, I was able to develop a new habit. And so that's the kind of small thing that helps us through difficult times. If I think of, like I said, just overhauling my whole life, that's going to put me into a deeper depression, I think, doing something like that.
Speaker: So something small that no one would know about, you can keep it a secret. It could be making your bed every day. It doesn't have to be anything phenomenal. It could be not leaving your clothes around the room at night. It's just like whatever it is that can help you form a different sense of yourself in the world. That's a change in our self -image.
Speaker: Yeah, the making the bed every day is a big one for me when I don't do it. The times I don't, I don't feel like myself. Yeah. When I was a kid, we had someone who came in and made our beds, my brother in my beds. And on the weekends, my mother would want us to make our beds. And I was like, why? We're just going to get back into it. It didn't make any sense to me at all. But now, as an adult, if I don't make my bed,
Speaker: come to bed at night, I look at the unmade bed and I go, oh, it's somehow nicer to fold the covers back down. Yeah. I feel like the sheets are softer. I feel like the whole room could be completely spotless. And if the bed is unmade, it looks totally disheveled and horrible. Yeah. Those are great habits though. And I think those are things we just don't think about so much when we're
Speaker: going through a challenging time that overhaul really is the tempting place to go and it's not usually going to be sustainable to make major changes in every area immediately and at once. The word you used I thought was really great that it's not sustainable. So can we choose something that's sustainable? And you know it may be that if I'm going through a difficult time it's not about the difficult time that I need to change.
Speaker: If I'm in a bad relationship or a bad job, it's not like getting a new job or a new partner or breaking up. It's about another place.
Speaker: to develop myself. It's not connected with a serious outcome. The serious outcome, they're not sustainable. I mean, they're hard. I had that years ago, so I meditated for many, many years religiously. Without thinking about it, I would just get up and meditate.
Speaker: And my first impetus to do it was really not in any kind of spiritual practice. I really wanted to see if I could sustain my attention for longer periods of time, and I was not very good at it. But I'd sat every day, and sometimes it was easy, sometimes I was tortured by it. But I remember, unfortunately, at one point in my life when I got divorced,
Speaker: It was really hard to meditate every day. It was just too painful to be with myself and all the thoughts that were running through my head. What's going to be? What's it going to be like? I could do it three or four times a week, but even that kind of wore down. I had to really make more of an effort to do it. So here's one thing about sustaining something.
Speaker: What can we do that may take a large degree of work, but without it being injurious to ourselves? I mean, that's a kindness right there. How do I do something so it doesn't hurt me? Because so many of us force ourselves to do stuff. And that forcing, it's just like, I've just added another level of torture to my life instead of finding some moment of, okay, I'm doing this, maybe it'll help, let's find out.
Speaker: Yeah, that's something I definitely struggle because I have very much thought all or nothing like we're going to go really hard or we're not going to do we're not going to do it at all. And I'm trying to get back into a practice with exercise. And I've been going on my walks for a while. Like my walks have been a daily habit and something that
Speaker: Unfortunately, it's becoming a little less sustainable because it's 99 degrees out. So I've been needing to find other ways to get some movement and I've wanted to add some additional movement. And at first I thought maybe I would do one of those workout challenges I've done in the past that was really hard and couldn't miss a day. You had to be really
Speaker: strict and it was a long period of time on some days. And then I realized, you know what, this really would take a lot of forcing. So I need to do this lower intensity dumbbell workout that I was doing in the past that I found to be very helpful that was several days a week.
Speaker: build in some recovery days and wasn't going to make it so I couldn't walk the next day too. Because if I go too hard on day one, I'm not going to want to continue. And I'm finding that to make it where I almost, I wouldn't say I'm right at the point where I'm really excited about the exercise, but I am feeling better about it and I'm feeling better about myself because it's a habit I'm starting to incorporate a lot more.
Speaker: I saw this funny cartoon once. It was a picture of Hamlet with a smile on his face. And it said underneath it, it said, Hamlet discovered he could cure his melancholy by swimming a mile three times a week. And it's like, how do we get ourselves? No, there's a quick answer to your walks, though, actually. I don't know if you're interested, which is get a dog. I had a dog for 17 years.
Speaker: You know, I live in Santa Fe, New Mexico, where it can be really hot, although it's dry in the summer. In the winter, we get snow, we're at high altitude. And I had a border collie. I used to have to walk him four miles a day in any weather. And I have to say, he's been gone for a while now. And to make myself go and walk like that, nah. It's like, no, I can't do that, you know. That's too much.
Speaker: That's almost the kindness that we show to others, even though in that case, you know, with the animal and maybe it's more of a need for them. But that is something we have that accountability toward our pets. And I do need to get a dog.
Speaker: I think, again, that sustainability piece is so important. And that allows us to be kinder to ourselves because then we're not beating ourselves up over why couldn't I stick to this new habit that I want to bring in? Why couldn't I master this skill in a week? Yeah, yeah. You know, sometimes practitioners come to me, my own graduates or others, and they'll sometimes they'll say to me, you know, my practice isn't what I'd like it to be.
Speaker: And we have a conversation, and I say, have you tried this? Yeah, have you tried this? Yeah, have you tried this? And they go, no. I said, go try that, see if that works. And two, three months later, they call me again, well, I did that, but it's still not what I want it to be. And I go, okay, have you tried this? No. Yes, have you tried this? Yes, have you tried this? No. Oh, try that. And I have this conversation maybe three or four times over a year with people, and I always get to the same place.
Speaker: And that place is, I say, have you tried this? And they say, oh, I'm not comfortable doing that. And the funny thing is the ones who do it, their practice takes off.
Speaker: And the ones who don't do it, they stay where they are. But again, it's a question of, what's an appropriate level of discomfort that I can tolerate without hurting myself? So I see this a lot with exercise programs and stuff. I mean, look how gyms make their money.
Speaker: If everybody who was a member of that gym showed up on the same day, they wouldn't be able to handle all of those people because so many people start, do it for a while, and then they give it, you know, it falls into the background, even though they paid for a year -long membership or something like that.
Speaker: And that's why I keep coming back to something smaller, something, it's so reasonable, it seems unreasonable, brushing your teeth better. It's like, well, who cares? I mean, it's like so what, but it's like the same thing about moving in a way that you like the way it feels kind of enters into the back door of who we are. And that's a
Speaker: a growth that's different. Sometimes I work with someone and we'll talk about something that they are interested in changing in their life, like kindness.
Speaker: in the conversation. But there might be something very specific. And I'll say, so how long do you think it'll take to do that, to incorporate it in your life? And sometimes people say, oh, three weeks. And I laugh at them. And I say, no. OK, six months. And I still laugh at them. And I say, a year and a half to two years. And they go, what? That's crazy. And I go, think about it. If you say six months, and after six months nothing's changed, you feel like a failure.
Speaker: If after six months you go, oh, I'm not doing it, but I have another year. And then after a year, it's still not what you want it to be, but you have another six months.
Speaker: That kind of needs it out over time in a way that it's more reasonable. That's really all it is. It's just like it's a reality. How fast can we be expected to do something? And that's certainly true if we do exercise every day and then we fall off the wagon and then it's really hard to get back on again, you know? And then we beat ourselves up and we like ourselves less and it's a vicious cycle then, you know?
Speaker: Yeah. Definitely a way to show more compassion and I think have more patience for ourselves. Exactly. Yeah. Big time. Big time patience. And to know what, like a realistic, I think of what we're capable of. Like I have this mantra I invented and it's a really funny one. I think now, now I think it's funny. I was, I had been working in Europe for like a month and I was on my way home and in a week I was going to Australia.
Speaker: And on the plane, I started thinking about all the things I had to do to prepare for my next job. And I became completely overwhelmed, like panicked, sitting with my seatbelt on, just like, oh my God, what am I going to do? And then this voice popped into my head and it said, is this a good time to be thinking about this? And the answer was no.
Speaker: I'm on a plane. I don't have any materials with me. I can't do anything. This is not a good time. And I relax for about an hour. And then the voice came, you know, all the noise in my head came up again. And I went, oh, is this a good time to be thinking about this? No. And what I've discovered since then, the tricky part is that window, if I can catch it, to ask the question. But really, every time I ask that question, the answer is always, I can't do that now.
Speaker: Stop it, Alan. Go think about something else. Read a book. Watch the movie on the plane. Chill a little bit.
Speaker: Yeah, it's so true. I mean, I've definitely worried about things in the wrong places where I'm thinking, I can't do anything about it. It was something I love with Gretchen Rubin. She talks about scheduling time to worry. I think a lot of times by the time you've scheduled the time, either it's something legitimate where really you're not necessarily worrying, but you're planning or whatever it is, but it's an actual time you've set aside. Or maybe by the time you get to that scheduled time, it's like, well, this isn't really a big deal anyway.
Speaker: Right. That's an interesting idea to schedule the time to worry. Yeah. Just to know, hey, this is not a good time to be thinking about this. I can think about this later. Yeah. The other thoughts that we have like that, I have these two other mantras I got from a therapist I worked with, which one is, oh, I'm driving around in a bad neighborhood.
Speaker: And those are all the kind of looping thoughts that take me here and take me there. But they're kind of pointless. They're just in my head. But again, either of these mantras, the tricky part is to catch the moment that I'm trapped in this stuff. And if I can learn to do that, that's a little bit better.
Speaker: you know, or the conversations I'm having within the person who's not there. For that mantra is, oh, I'm at a dead end. I'm making up a whole conversation about what someone's going to say. No, I do what they're going to say. But we all do it. And, you know, for me, all of these things that I'm talking about, I'm not talking about it as like an expert that I can do all these things. It's something I practice myself.
Speaker: And I would say that the growth for any of us in something like this is not to be rid of these internal conversations, but can I spend less time in them each time? I still show up, but oh, wait, I'm doing that again. Okay, let's do something else, you know.
Speaker: And I only ruminated for 10 minutes now instead of an hour or a day or a month, you know? So shortening the time we spend in these kind of less positive states for ourselves, I think that to me is more evidence of growth and development than anything else.
Speaker: And I think we're happier. Do you have any advice for catching it a little sooner or having more of that awareness? I think about that a lot because that's come more to the foreground for me since I published the book. And I do think about it. And I think, well, the only answer I have right now is awareness, is that I have to paying attention to something, right? And that too is something that needs to be practiced.
Speaker: I think that what happens is often when I catch myself doing it, I either judge myself for doing it, I loop back into some other kind of negative loop, or I think it should be different, or I wish I wasn't doing it, but if I can catch it, even if I can't do anything about it, that's why I need to kind of pat myself on the back and go, well, at least I caught it.
Speaker: Yeah, I'm still doing it. It's still going on in my head, but I caught it. That's good. It's an improvement. Can I catch it sooner next time? Oh, I'm doing it again. So attention and awareness. And then the question is, well, how do we develop our attention and our awareness? And that's something that also needs to be practiced. I think in many forms of meditation, the practice is to become aware of one's thoughts and let them go and not hold on to them.
Speaker: and I mean that took me like years to do to be able to have a thought because the thought would kind of catch me and then I would just zoom off on it for an hour thinking about all these things instead of going up I just had a thought so I and I don't know it could be doing Tai Chi or yoga you know or Feldenkrais or taking a bath whatever gives you the chance to settle for some moments maybe meditate for an hour maybe meditate for five minutes
Speaker: This comes down to one thing really, I think, which is what do I want? If I know what I want, I can have the ability to sustain a practice in something. If I don't really know what I want, well, that's hard to figure out what to do. I'll tell you a funny story. Years ago in New York, my private practice, I had this client and they were kind of mopey.
Speaker: And one day they came in, it was a graphic designer, and they sat up and they were doing this and this and this. And I looked at this person, I said, what happened to you? And they said, I did the fire walk, fear into power. It was with Tony Robbins.
Speaker: I mean, this person was transformed. It was kind of remarkable. And I thought, I'm going to try it. So I did the firework with Tony Robbins. So at the time, I thought, wow, he was a really brilliant presenter. And at the end, I walked through, I don't know, maybe 20 feet of hot coals. But people would walk through these hot coals and get to the other side.
Speaker: and just scream and jump, yahoo, I can do whatever I want, fear into power. And I walked through it and I went, gee, I can do whatever I want. And then I thought, what do I want to do? And I got depressed and got into a taxi and went home.
Speaker: To know what we want is not so easy. But then again, if I come back to the kind of themes that I write about, do I want to like myself more? Yeah, that's kind of fundamental. Do I want to be kinder? Yeah, those are kind of like basic human values, I think, towards ourselves and towards others. And I think wanting that, maybe that's the impetus to do all the things that we're spending time talking about right now.
Speaker: Yeah, I mean, you are the person that you are going to have for the rest of your life. And, you know, and I think it's quality of life for us if we like ourselves more and we can always like ourselves more. So definitely having that motivation there, I think that that is a great reason to be putting the work into whatever practices that
Speaker: we are looking to bring into our lives. So I really love this work that you're doing. I think again, it's so important. There's such a need. I definitely want to ask you more about your book and about your teachings. Before we do that, I have some rapid fire questions that I love to ask our guests. Wonderful. The first one for you, what is your favorite self -care practice right now? I would say listening.
Speaker: listening to myself, listening to others, but giving myself the time to listen to my thoughts and feelings and let them move through me in a way that I can create a little space around them to recognize, what's going on with me right now? What am I feeling? What am I thinking? So I think listening is kind of paramount.
Speaker: Absolutely. I think it helps you develop more of that awareness. Yeah. Yeah. That's wonderful. Now, if you had a one word theme for this time in life or for this year, what would that one word theme be?
Speaker: I'll say the word, but then I have to explain it, okay? Of course. So the word is tree. Okay. Okay. So now where does that come from? So I have a quote in the book from Ram Dass. Let me read it to you. So, and this is, I can preface it a little bit more actually that
Speaker: When I wrote the book on kindness, the things I write about, I think I have some skill with most of those things. What I didn't expect was that now the next level of being kinder for me is a much bigger hurdle. Like, how am I going to do that? And this quote kind of says it. So Ramdha says, when you go out into the woods and you look at trees, you see all these different trees.
Speaker: And some of them are bent. You sort of understand that it didn't get enough light and so it turned that way. And you don't get all emotional about it, you just allow it. The minute you get near humans, you lose all that.
Speaker: And you're constantly saying, you're to this or I'm to this, the judgmental mind comes in. And so I practice turning people into trees, which means appreciating them just the way they are. So I really like that quote. And the quote itself kind of tells a little bit of a story that's too long for me to kind of do. I can't recite that whole thing to myself each time.
Speaker: So what I've caught myself doing, like I said, I'm waiting in an airport for a flight or something and I'm looking at people and I think I'm like everyone else. I look at someone and I'm making up a story about them. And sometimes it's a positive story, sometimes it's a negative story. And what I've learned, what I'm learning to do is if I can catch myself making up a story to go
Speaker: tree and all of a sudden like the stories kind of dissolve and I just see a person there who I don't know who they are what's going on with them but it kind of empties me for the moment so I would say tree is the word right now for me.
Speaker: That's amazing. And I love the story behind it. That's something I'm going to need to, I'm going to need to try that for myself. Oh, that's great. And then what are you most looking forward to right now? And this can be personal, professional, really any area of life.
Speaker: Well I would say I've been pretty lucky and successful in my professional life and I've got more work than I can do. What I would really like is that I could make some small contribution to making the world a kinder place.
Speaker: I know I practice with the people around me, and part of the impetus to write the book was, can I help spread this more? Can I make it a value that more and more people want to do? And you know what's funny is that since I started writing the book and publishing it, I find that I actually do see more kindness in the world. And I'm puzzled. Was it there before? Did I just not see it? Was it a question of my focus or perception?
Speaker: Yeah, to help us all be a little kinder. That's what I would like. I love that. I think that that's such an admirable goal. And I do think that the work you're doing will have that ripple effect and will make this world a kinder place. And with that, I would love for you to share with our listeners a little more about the book, how they can find it and just ways to connect with you.
Speaker: Sure. So, well, I have a website. It's called practicing -kindness .com. Make sure you get the dash in there. And the book is available on Amazon as a Kindle. And I recorded it as an audio book as well. So it's an Audible.
Speaker: And of course, a paperback version as well. And so that's the best place to buy the book and it's pretty available internationally, which I'm happy about. And yeah, and on the website, there's a place where you can contact me and email me. But if not, I can say it's Alan, A -L -A -N, app.
Speaker: practicing -kindness .com. And you should know that if you email me, I'm really fast at responding to emails. So if you don't get an answer in three days, I didn't get it. And I check my spam all the time, so I'm pretty careful about that. So that would be the best way to reach me. Fantastic. And I'll make sure to link all of that in the show notes so the listeners can
Speaker: course, and I can't wait to share this conversation with the listeners, share the book, and I want to thank you so much for sharing this wisdom with us today and for sharing your time and such an important message. Well, and I want to thank you for having me here because that's one of the ways I can spread the word.
Speaker: I absolutely love this conversation, especially when it comes to liking ourselves more. I think this is something that so many people struggle with, myself included. But when we like ourselves more, it really does translate in the world and it allows us to show up in a more authentic way in our relationships and the work that we do and in pretty much every aspect of life. So I am really excited to practice these exercises in Alan's book.
Speaker: And I can't wait to see the impact of this work in my own life and in the lives of those around me. So I want to thank Alan for coming on the show. This work is so impactful and it's such a noble cause and I really do appreciate everything that he's doing. So I've linked his information in the show notes. Be sure to connect with Alan if you'd like to learn more.
Speaker: or check out his books. If you've enjoyed our conversation, please share it with a friend or tag us on social media. One of the best ways you can lend your support to the show is word of mouth. Leave a rating and review on your favorite podcast app and let us know what you think. If you have a topic you'd like to hear about on a future episode or just feedback for the show, you can also reach out to me on Instagram at Wellness and Wanderlust blog, or simply drop me a line at Valerie, V -A -L -E -R -I -E, at wellnessandwanderlust .net.
Speaker: I hope you have an amazing day and I look forward to catching up with you next time.
