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145. Finding Your Bliss Through Movement with Rachel Fleischman
149 Plays1 year ago
How can dance and movement bring us joy and help us heal?
This week, we’re chatting with Rachel Fleischman, a licensed psychotherapist and social worker, and founder of both Bliss Counseling and Dance Your Bliss. Over the last two decades Rachel has supported thousands of humans to deepen their creativity, live their full expression, and love themselves fiercely.
In our conversation, Rachel shares how movement can help us in our healing journeys, and ways we can spark our creativity in our everyday lives. We also discuss the power of self-compassion and how we can get there, tips for restorative rest, and how we can learn to better understand and appreciate our bodies.
If you enjoy this episode, please feel free to rate and review the podcast on whatever app you’re listening on, and share with a friend!
CONNECT WITH RACHEL
Websites: https://www.blisscounseling.com/ and http://www.dancingyourbliss.com/
Email: dancingyourbliss@gmail.com
CONNECT WITH THE SHOW
Website: WellnessAndWanderlust.net
Instagram: www.instagram.com/wellnessandwanderlustblog
Facebook: www.facebook.com/wellnessandwanderlustblog
Twitter: www.twitter.com/moses_says
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Transcript
00:00:03
Speaker
Welcome
Introduction to Podcast & Guest
00:00:04
Speaker
to the wellness and wanderlust podcast. We're here to demystify wellness and help you add a little adventure to your life. Tune in for a new episode every week, where we'll hear from incredible guests and talk about ways to be happier and healthier in our new normal. I'm your host, Valerie Moses. Let's get started.
00:00:23
Speaker
Hey everyone, hope you're having an amazing day and that this episode finds you exactly when you need it the most. I'm Valerie Moses, your host of the Wellness and Wanderlust podcast, where we explore actionable steps for creating our dream lives. We've taken a brief, much needed hiatus for the past week to recharge and reset
00:00:42
Speaker
but we are back with another amazing guest for you all today. This week, we're chatting with Rachel Fleishman, a licensed psychotherapist and social worker and founder of both Bliss Counseling and Dance Your Bliss. Over the last two decades, Rachel has supported thousands of humans to deepen their creativity, live their full expression, and love themselves fiercely. In our conversation, Rachel shares how movement can help us in our healing journeys and ways we can spark our creativity in our everyday lives.
00:01:10
Speaker
We
Rachel's Background & Therapy Approach
00:01:10
Speaker
also discuss the power of self-compassion and how we can get there, tips for restorative rest, and how we can learn to better understand and appreciate our bodies. Rachel is such delight, and I know you're going to love hearing from her. So enough from me. Let's dive in to episode 145 with Rachel Fleischman. Rachel, thank you so much for joining us at Wellness and Wonderlust. Valerie, I'm so excited to be here. Thank you for having me.
00:01:34
Speaker
Well, I'm so excited to have you on the show. I know we've got a lot of great stuff to talk about today. Why don't you first just introduce yourself to our listeners and share a little about you? Yeah, I'd love to. You have such a beautiful voice, by the way. And I believe a sing-songy voice kind of helps us, if you will, and bringing joy to the listeners. So I hope you know how much that's beautiful for the listeners. I enjoy it. Thank you. So my name is Rachel Fleischman, and I just turned 50 again. I was just saying yesterday. So this is kind of a big moment.
00:02:04
Speaker
And I am many things, but I think as far as today goes, a psychotherapist, a movement therapist, a movement facilitator, etc. A couple ways I identify myself is I'm Jewish. I'm very funny. I'm from Philadelphia. I had extremely countercultural parents growing up. I can share about that later or not. And I was an extremely shy little girl, painfully shy, afraid of
00:02:31
Speaker
everything from the ocean to loud noises. Today, I probably would be someone who maybe they'd say I had sensory processing issues, I'm not sure, but all of that helped lead me into an incredible world of dance and healing. I live in San Francisco, where I have a very full practice as a psychotherapist and a consultant and some other things.
Influences & Passion for Psychotherapy
00:02:54
Speaker
And I just enjoy nothing more than sharing
00:03:00
Speaker
with others. So that's me. Well, it's so lovely to have you on. First of all, happy belated. And it's always fun to have another Jewish person on the show. I didn't know you were part of the tribe, of course, Moses, duh. Right. Let my people go. Yes. Yeah. Well, I think that does make us funnier. And I hate to say because I know that is a stereotype a little bit. But I think that I think that we are a funnier tribe.
00:03:25
Speaker
Yes. No, I love that. And I think that that's so cool that you really wear so many different hats. And so this is probably a big question because you do so many different things. But tell me a little about your background and how you got into the world of counseling and wellness and consulting and all of the amazing things that you do. Yeah. Sure. Absolutely.
00:03:46
Speaker
And maybe I'll sprinkle in some Jewish humor jokes for the listeners too, which I love. Please do. Yeah, I think strangely enough or not strangely enough, I just remember being a kid and thinking about our mental health, thinking about how fascinating to have a brain. Not being a super sciencey kid necessarily, but being fascinated by how we think
00:04:11
Speaker
what brings us to do what we do, starting as a little one loving theater, reading books, always curious about human beings' motivations. Again, very shy, I kept quiet, but was watching. We have a lot of mental illness. What's a nicer way to say that? Lots of really creative people in my family tree.
00:04:32
Speaker
Um, and a lot of artists and my family tree and a lot of counter-culturalism there. And it definitely brought some pain my way and lots of curiosity. So by high school, I remember someone leaving on the teacher's desk, you know, people would get in trouble and you'd have your book confiscated because God forbid you enjoyed a good, delicious book in the middle of a school day. I remember the book was called, I never promised you a rose garden. Great title.
00:05:00
Speaker
And I grabbed it and I could tell by page one, it was about a woman, a young woman, actually a girl dealing with psychosis and the brilliant psychotherapist who helped treat her based on a true story. And I'm sorry, I'm forgetting the author. We can put that in the show notes. I
Movement Therapy Development
00:05:14
Speaker
can research it. I couldn't put it down. I was so intrigued that this
00:05:21
Speaker
young gal who was experiencing pain and trauma and such confusion could be helped by someone and luckily had no history of psychosis in myself, but understood feeling different. I couldn't leave the book. I couldn't put it down.
00:05:38
Speaker
And from there, it just went on. Every book I could get my hands on about, you know, mental health. Of course, I read Girl Interrupted. I was fascinated by all of this. So in school, I studied theater and in grad school, I studied social work at a really wonderful school and started working as a social worker in psychiatric facilities, which brought me to leading this movement system somewhere around 2000, 23 years ago.
00:06:07
Speaker
Um, because they got rid of the movement therapist and they needed someone to help get the patients into their bodies and wanted to save money and have Rachel, you know, add, you know, wear another hat. And I was delighted too. And I'd never seen such transformation to see his young women and men who were so solid and so depleted and so demoralized, just feeling joy and feeling aspiration and feeling their life force. Valerie, it was amazing. So I sort of put together my.
00:06:36
Speaker
coupled together my long, long, long history of having studied yoga. I taught aerobics and undergrad and put a couple CDs together, put a lot of heart and soul into it and began to lead movement groups and thought, huh, that's there's something here. I'm doing some psychotherapy with patients and it's boring for them and stressful for their families. And something is happening.
00:06:59
Speaker
when we're moving our bodies. So I was able to conjoin slowly, come on, it's taken years, this wonderful mix of being in the world of psychotherapist and mover and healer. That is such an inspiring story. And I think it's so cool the way that you took on something that you actually had a lot of experience with. And maybe, you know, when you were in school, you weren't necessarily picturing that you were going to
00:07:28
Speaker
bring these two together, it was just something that you enjoyed and that you did. And to be able to change lives in this way and combine these two different modalities. And I think a lot of times we think of the mind and the body as totally separate, but why do you think this is so helpful for the patients?
00:07:45
Speaker
First of all, you're absolutely right. Not only do we think of the mind and body as separate, but I went to a really great graduate school and I never felt so disembodied. I was really living from the neck up. So, I
Impact of Movement on Mental Health
00:07:56
Speaker
mean, you know, historically the body has been seen as lowlier than the brain, you know, this place of lust and need and toilet habits and things. So there's a lot of old history and kind of old, old white man, you know, culture there. But when we,
00:08:12
Speaker
move in our bodies so many things happen physiologically and I found grad school really challenging because it was so intellectual and it was so again unfortunately disembodied but I'm also you know really grateful for it and I tell anyone who wants to go into the field of social work do it just make sure you have a movement practice because when we when we move there's a
00:08:36
Speaker
a way in which any inhibition, not like drunkenness, but inhibition softens. And we come into the absolute core of our, forgive the term, best selves. So movement and being in the body, we know through so many years of medical journals, it's
00:08:56
Speaker
can show I think it's 20 to 30 percent lower risk of depression and dementia British journal in 2019 found risks so I could go into lots and lots of statistics of how movement changes our lives but there's this conversation happening that's so much deeper than words I think Martha Graham great dancer and choreographer said the body never lies and I loved you know that quote and have always loved that so I sort of feel like I could go on and on forever
00:09:26
Speaker
Give me some more questions, because there's so much I want to say, but there's so much. And I want to make sure I am answering your questions in the right way.
00:09:34
Speaker
I think that is really important point and like the thought that the body is that lowlier part of us. I think so often we don't realize like we feel something in our gut or those physical reactions that we have to something very emotional and I didn't understand that connection until I went through an EMDR therapy.
00:09:56
Speaker
few years ago and suddenly realized that what I think what we know intuitively but ignore is actually true. When you're doing this type of movement work, I would imagine that you know, you said that you live from the from the shoulders up from the neck up. And I know that's something that I tend to fall into myself. I think a lot of the listeners do too. How does this movement practice work? And what are some things that we can be doing to start kind of
00:10:26
Speaker
reconnecting with that part of ourselves. Yeah. Thank you so much for saying that. Oh, and gosh, how much I love sitting at computer and I live in the land of technology and we do such good work sitting on our bums, but we need to be embodied. So the first thing I would say is please find some way for every human
00:10:44
Speaker
that you like to move your body. If you walk, that's enough. If you play golf, that's enough. If you lift weights and you love it, that's enough. Of course, walking is great because then you're hitting all the delicious endorphins of being outside and sunlight on your skin and nature. And it's very multi-sensorial and all of that. But in my practice, we cycle through movement, writing and drawing. So check it out. We're just creating new neural pathways.
00:11:11
Speaker
Some of the ways, if we can picture it, right, because we're on audio, but what's cool is the listener can kind of do this on their own and you can too, Valerie. It's like if you're just sitting there and I say to you, you know, slowly raise your arms up and just stretch your arms above your head, clasp your wrists and like kind of take your ribs and just go side to side in that delicious stretch. Notice what it feels like just to stretch. And again, wiggle the ribs and again, lift the arms. And then if I say separate your hands, Valerie and listeners,
00:11:41
Speaker
And just let your wrists just kind of move easy and then do a few head rolls. And then if I said to you, as you're doing those head rolls, can you do them a little softer, even more gently, a little shoulder roll? Think of a kitty cat. Think of a little animal stretching. Can you find a few stretches?
00:11:59
Speaker
that feel delicious in your body. And in fact, we can do this seated if we want to, right? So the head rolls and the shoulder rolls. And now I might say, what's it like to just rest your hands on the heart? I'd say folks can do this at work, but yeah, that might feel weird, but surely you can do it at home. And then I might say, what's it like to just feel into the architecture of the heart space today?
00:12:24
Speaker
Right? To just feel that. And what's it like to just feel into the heart space? Just breathing in and breathing out. And so just in this moment, Valerie, you might feel something, right? Just in that moment, just in that, I don't know, 30 seconds of me guiding you and leading you and all of that deliciousness. There's so much.
00:12:46
Speaker
From that, oh my gosh, dear Valerie and dear listener, it's amazing. You can imagine in a class, getting that for an hour and a half, you leave transformed. So I would say to someone, move any which way you like to, four or five times a week. Start your day slowly with stretches.
00:13:10
Speaker
End your day slowly with stretches. Think about and notice what flavor and style and type of movement actually feels good in your bones and see if that's what you're doing.
Physical Comfort & Movement
00:13:23
Speaker
Because oftentimes we're doing something for a hope of the future. Hips will be thinner. Legs will be stronger. Think about how about better posture. Think about how about feeling more confident and more connected. How's that? Yeah. How'd that feel?
00:13:39
Speaker
It felt great. I felt a little bit, you know, I feel very relaxed, but I also know that I'm someone who, when I'm sitting at a desk, a lot of the day, I hunch and I carry a lot of
00:13:54
Speaker
tension in my shoulders, I finally started getting massage in the last couple of months. And she very much every time she's like, she's like, you still you still got it. And I, you know, I do a couple of the stretches she's shown me. But if I'm not doing it when I'm sitting down and like in that moment,
00:14:12
Speaker
I mean, I find myself sore right away. And I think that gives us like a little bit more consciousness because I definitely want to have better posture. I want to be more confident, but I also want to be more physically comfortable. Say more, Valerie, if it's okay for you, when you say physically comfortable, you mean just not in pain and feeling good in your body? Exactly. Back pain, and I'm guessing by your gorgeous radiant skin that you're a lot younger than I,
00:14:40
Speaker
Um, but either way, back pain, is that what we're talking about? Lower back pain, upper back pain. I get lower back and I have, um, in my shoulders as well. My shoulders and neck. Okay. So dear listener and dear Valerie, cause I sure as heck, I just had
00:14:58
Speaker
My first back MRI and folks, if you ever need one, it's not as scary. It's really people are very afraid of MRIs. It wasn't that bad. So let's learn a couple things. We have 32 vertebrae and the ones that take the most hit are the lumbar.
00:15:12
Speaker
And I'm not great with numbers. I think we have five lumbar vertebrae and each one is connected with lots of wonderful nerve endings and also this wonderful squishy stuff in the middle called discs. And you've heard every one of us knows a parent or grandparent or agent person that's like, oh, I've got a pinched nerve. I've got a.
00:15:30
Speaker
a herniated disc or something. So what I want us all to do is just sit up really tall but not in that perfect gymnast way. Just sit up tall and notice where's the weight. Can we bring some of the weight a little bit forward? Can we notice
00:15:46
Speaker
softening the shoulders and maybe even, maybe even sitting up so straight, like one of the good folks from like a Victorian novel where the poor gals are sort of, you know, expected to sit perfectly straight for tea. But in doing that, can we be conscious of those beautiful 32 vertebrae? We have 32 teeth and 32 vertebrae. I think that's interesting. And can we soften the shoulders? And can I say to that back,
00:16:12
Speaker
I get it. Valerie works her buns off, hence this great and delicious service she provides in giving us all this knowledge in the podcast. But her body's taking a hit. So what does the body need? And what it's going to need is every hour that she gets up and does a cat and cow stretch. You know what that is, listeners, and Valerie, right? Hands and knees. And you do that beautiful cat and cow stretch. You know that one, right, Valerie? Yeah. OK.
00:16:37
Speaker
Yeah, I think that's a basic one. And I'm happy to write in show notes or something a little bit of the stretches. But I would want you to stretch. And I would say some of it is musculoskeletal and how we're built and made. But we weren't made for sitting this much, were we? No, we weren't.
00:16:55
Speaker
Yeah, I'm trying to picture the cavemen sitting at a desk. And yeah, I mean, it's definitely I mean, I think this brings us a little more like, just that consciousness toward how we're treating our bodies throughout the day, because I'll sit in that total discomfort, and then I'll either
00:17:15
Speaker
you know, medicate with a little ibuprofen, which I should not be taking, according to one of my doctors, they're like, you take too much, or, or I'll put heat on it, which is nice. But, you know, at the same time, it's like there might be something like even just sitting differently and being more aware. I mean, that's a lot more preventive. I'd love to skip the whole pain altogether if I can. Yeah.
00:17:40
Speaker
But I don't know how much to share because I'm still learning about some functional changes in my body. But I have over the past year, and I suppose a year would count as it becomes chronic, right? I have developed some. I don't love the word chronic pain in my back. And so I've had to promise myself to go for walks every day. I know what a great thing. And I've had to say, if the ibuprofen freaking helps, I'm taking it. But you're right.
00:18:04
Speaker
I don't want that to be the only thing for us and for the listener. So I would be super curious, you know, if you and I, you know, meet someday we're going to do, or like we have a little zoom hangout. One of the things I would want is to have you do stretches maybe several times a day. And it would be like you giving yourself the most delicious PT and we would choose the exercises that feel delicious in your back and probably Valerie and listener.
00:18:32
Speaker
you'd be taking some Pilates classes and you'd be strengthening your beautiful core, right? So you wanna do that right now. It's like, okay, I wanna strengthen that core. That's why I have ballet class and Pilates class and I do my own version of PT as well. So I would love that every listener was like, okay, here's the part or parts of me that don't feel great. And a lot of us it's lower back and some of us it's shoulders and some of us it's hips. And I'd love us to say, how can I take this
00:19:00
Speaker
quote, I guess, problem and make it into an opportunity. I am no Pollyanna, but how can I make it into an opportunity to do more stretching? And you're probably very, you know, you're not probably are you're very high achieving, you know, hard working being and some of that is a lot of that is happening while you're sitting.
00:19:21
Speaker
And so I would want you to do walk and talks and I would want you to have hot baths if you don't mind. Baths and I would want you water and I would want you getting body work way more than you get it. We should all just have that paid for in our health insurance. You know, we should all be getting body work as much as possible.
00:19:38
Speaker
Oh, gosh, I so agree. Yes. Yeah. Because even just, you know, I started getting massage probably in the last probably since about March. And I don't go that often, but maybe about once a month. And even that, you know, having that like I started with an hour now I'm doing more like an hour and a half and great.
00:19:59
Speaker
I mean, that's time that I care, like, I feel better. But I also carry that with me. And you know, it's funny, I haven't done Pilates in a little while I cheered in high school. And I remembered like the stretching was so important. And there were times in life where I've been really, really good about stretching. And when you're actually kind of strengthening the smaller muscles and stretching more and getting that I mean, you find so often, wow, I was a little uncomfortable in this area, I didn't even realize and
00:20:29
Speaker
I feel so good when I do it. So I think that is such an important self-care practice we don't think about very often. We get very comfortable in our discomfort. And if you did cheer, I would suggest that means you're an athlete, at least to me, a top athlete if you did cheer. Bravo. And we're told in athletic culture, hopefully you were not, but the more severe the athleticism, we're told, you know, suck it up for the team.
00:20:54
Speaker
We all need to keep going on. I work with top athletes and the things they tell me. My movement style and the way that I teach is extremely permissive because I teach lots of people in different bodies, people living in bodies of different sizes and ages.
Cultural Perspectives on Exercise
00:21:11
Speaker
And so it really is interesting how, and sad, how we just get comfortable in our own discomfort. And hopefully just the fact that your listeners are listening to us, they're on the same page we are. They want to feel better. They're taking notes. They're stretching right now. They better be, right? And they're curious and wanting to feel better and wanting to feel more embodied and looking at maybe the ways they are embodied, but perhaps could soften a little.
00:21:41
Speaker
into something more like Pilates or something like Qigong or Tai Chi. Even though I also love the high impact big stuff, maybe they don't need to run seven days a week. I do think we live in a culture that overdoes exercise, that overdoing it and optimizing is such a thing. Maybe we all go for walks and slow down a little is my hope.
00:22:02
Speaker
Mm-hmm. Yeah, I find my walks to be sometimes the best thing for my mental health truly and I'm trying to get into a little more high intensity now and a little more with weights just because I was feeling like not as strong as I used to be I want to start building that up but ultimately the walks regardless they've had to stay because I just feel so much better when I am moving I see my birds and I see the water and get out so well I
00:22:30
Speaker
I'm in Florida, so maybe not right now wanting to get outside. So they're kind of turning into late night walks. But getting outside and moving has been just so healing for me. And I mean, that's it's a big reason that push is a big reason why I quit cheer. I was
00:22:47
Speaker
Doing it in high school, I was all American and I got to a point where my ankles were so injured from the way I was landing as I was practicing different movements and it was either keep going and continue to hurt them. The only way it was going to heal was to stop and I decided senior year, I don't want to have to wear ankle braces every day and potentially not get any better at the sport at this point and have worse problems later on.
00:23:13
Speaker
it's sad because it's something I really enjoyed but ultimately it was that push of like if you don't keep going through the pain you're gonna kind of stay where you're at but yeah I think that awareness is just so important and I love that you work with people with different bodies different different relationships with their bodies and different relationships to movement when you are working with someone who is maybe not
00:23:39
Speaker
as comfortable in their body or this is really new to them. Where do you start and how do you help them to push past some of that discomfort or to get more comfortable in it? Because I think for example I've personally I've gained some weight in the last in the last few months. I know that it's just personally a little bit harder for me to trust my body and get into that but then also knowing that people maybe with chronic illness or
00:24:05
Speaker
with other areas of concern with their health maybe that movement and other you know like those types of modalities really getting physical can be so emotionally uncomfortable sometimes. I would say and these are such important questions and even even the statement when you say you know I've gained weight I wish we could be like awesome like that's you know like you know what I wish we could you know flip the script and be like that's great you know you're maximizing your fabulousness or something but yeah so
00:24:34
Speaker
Well, two things. One, you know, when I'm in my psychotherapy practice, I am, for the most part, seated. For many years, I also did and continue to do some
00:24:44
Speaker
movement-based psychotherapy. But in the psychotherapy realm, you'll generally see me in regular work clothes sitting and helping people first with just massive life stressors, going through really big transitions, helping them with work stress, relationship stress. In the other sphere, and I apologize if it's confusing, I wear a couple of hats, which I love. So in the dance or bliss sphere where I'm teaching, the first thing is to have people feel safe. We don't feel safe
00:25:11
Speaker
If we feel self-conscious, if we're staring in the mirror, if everyone else looks like a ballerina, meaning whatever that means, you know what it means, perfection or what we think perfection is supposed to be, we're probably not going to feel safe. I walked into a really fun fitness class a few years ago in SF and I was easily, you know, twice the age of everyone and I was about to walk right out and then I just said, oh, to hell with it. I'm just here to have fun.
00:25:39
Speaker
found my place on the bar and had a blast. First thing is we need safety. So if it's a group class, obviously if it's a one-on-one session, I'm going to create that safety instantly. I'm going to help them see their body as a place of strength and beauty. And some of that is with one of my other sort of magic powers, which is guided imagery. I do a really good sort of mix of hypnosis and
00:26:04
Speaker
guided speaking to help people bypass a lot of that prefrontal cortex and go right into right into the heart. So part of it is safety. Another part is a cheat, which is great music and every one of your listeners should have and we're so lucky to have tons and tons of great sound around us. Another thing is only wear clothing that you absolutely feel comfortable with because eventually, if you're enjoying moving,
00:26:31
Speaker
You will lose yourself in the experience. You will come into a state of, I hope, you know, my belief is I can get you there into a state of great joy. And I've worked with many people dealing with really severe levels of depression and anxiety. And obviously see a doctor, take medicine when you need to and dance.
00:26:51
Speaker
But the big thing to go back is safety, and we need to feel safe. If we go into a place of self-loathing or demoralization or self-criticism, tell me about it so I can help you. But remember, we're not just moving, we're also writing and drawing and using our creative expression in other ways, which is this great gateway for deepening creativity
00:27:16
Speaker
and coming into a sense of knowing ourselves, which is really empowering. Sorry, Valerie, that was a lot. So help me, I can break down anything you like, but that was the long and short answer. Well, I think that that's great. And you really do answer the question there that overall that level of safety is so important. And I love the fact that you're incorporating creativity into that because I do think, well, I think movement can be creative. And I also think that
00:27:43
Speaker
A focus on creativity is something that we sometimes lose, but it's so fulfilling. I did one of those career assessments, one of those skill assessments about a year ago, and they were talking about what brings you joy and energy and what you're doing the most of, what you're doing the least of, and where your skills are. And the
Creativity & Joy in Life
00:28:04
Speaker
area of focus that they really wanted us to put emphasis on was
00:28:08
Speaker
the stuff that we absolutely love that brings us joy and energy, but that we're not doing very often. And for me, creativity was a big piece of that. I feel so energized by being able to exercise that, but I wasn't maybe putting enough focus into it or feeling like unfulfilled in that area. And so I'd love to know a little bit more about the writing and drawing piece to this and how it ties into the healing, maybe what some of those prompts look like.
00:28:37
Speaker
Yeah, sure. Absolutely. I think it's great that you did that assessment. And there's something so bittersweet about knowing that which we love and then going, I'm not doing it, you know, whether it's being out in nature or being creative. So first of all, the word creativity is a little bit or can be a little bit edgy for some people where they'll just look at me and be like, No, I'm a lawyer, or I'm an accountant, or I'm a CEO, and I'm great at what I do, but I'm not creative. You know, a teacher told me they'll say,
00:29:04
Speaker
when I was little, not to draw, write, sing, dance. And many of us, myself included, mine was don't sing.
00:29:10
Speaker
many, many teachers don't sing. And boy, my voice has so improved. Once I learned, I can really carry it soon. And there's nothing like singing in the shower. So the prompts are so much fun. And I don't know if we have time to do one right now, but I can sort of kind of sort of walk you through a little bit. You know, I might grab a piece of paper and I might say, hey, Valerie and listeners, do me a favor and draw, you know, on this piece of paper.
00:29:40
Speaker
three little squares, you know, in the first square. I'd love you to, you know, and I know you have lots of questions. How big are the squares? Where are they? Who cares? They're like, you know, my squares are all different sizes. But in the first square, I'd like you to just put a circle. And in the second square, I'd like you to put a triangle. And in the third square, I'd like you to put a diamond. And then go to the first square with a circle and just write three words that are up for you right now.
00:30:10
Speaker
So for myself, I might write the word curiosity. I might write the word fatigue and I might write the word, um, humor. And then I might ask you to take some spikes outside of those words, outside of those words and see what you get. Obviously we're kind of rapid firing it. So I might go to the curiosity and say, Oh my God, there's energy there. And there's podcasts and there's my book that I've been working on since God knows when in the fatigue.
00:30:37
Speaker
I write a little sort of arrow or antenna and I write, you know, work less, question mark, et cetera. And I might go to the second square with a diamond and I might say, and now I'd like you to write three words for best day ever, Valerie. What are Valerie's best day ever, you know, adjectives? Like mine might be nature, water, and love. What are your three words? What's your best day ever words?
00:31:06
Speaker
That's a great question. Hard one. I would say fun. Explore or exploratory maybe and friends or friendship. I love that fun. Explore, explore trick.
00:31:21
Speaker
So you've got that in your second square with a triangle. And then again, you're going to take these beautiful antennas. And I'm doing this super fast, but I'm helping people bypass that part of the mind that's going, I'm an inter policeman and I should only write this or that. And I'm just writing what I need to write, darn it. So from fun, Valerie is going to see, oh my God, am I having enough fun? Am I exploring? You know, wanderlust is a word here.
00:31:47
Speaker
And then in the third square, we're going to put them all together and I'm going to say, you know, what are three things that you can do starting this weekend, starting, you know, the beginning of July? What are three micro changes that you can make to create what you need?
00:32:05
Speaker
And oh my God, fun exploratory and friends, you know, you're just gonna, the sky is the limit. And luckily, of course, in a workshop, there's lots and lots and lots of time for me to help people. So the writing then moves into a drawing and then the drawing moves into a poem and the poem moves into by the end of the weekend, you're coming home with a whole little life plan and map for yourself. La di da.
00:32:30
Speaker
That's amazing. I mean, I think that that's such a great way for us to really be thinking about how we can bring more of what we want into our lives.
00:32:39
Speaker
so often we're thinking about maybe this is what I should be doing and maybe these are the ways I'm going to get to these goals that you know may be important to us but they're not I don't know they're not bringing us the joy they're not yeah they're not maybe making us happy it's just getting us from point A to point B or getting us through a difficult time at work or whatever it is but really instead
00:33:02
Speaker
Thinking about what do we want to really bring into our lives and how we can do that and how we can be thinking differently about it because yeah, I hadn't really thought about that before the way that we were kind of walking through it.
00:33:14
Speaker
Well, I was kind of sprinting you through it, Valerie. But I like the number three. I like to just sit with what's cooking.
Managing Burnout & Restorative Practices
00:33:23
Speaker
And I think we listen to podcasts because sometimes we are unhappy, lonely. Less than savory words come to me. Unhappy, lonely, unsure, confused. And this is why I dance. I am not just a psychotherapist. I'm a client. I'm a forever client.
00:33:43
Speaker
because I get so much from sitting on the Zoom couch as the client and I need
00:33:50
Speaker
to be reminded that I am a creative being and I need to be reminded from someone who knows me of all these ways that I love to be creative, but we are in a workaholic culture. You have an MBA, I can only imagine. I mean, I don't wanna make too many generalizations about B-School, but I just wanna say in workaholic culture, work is very important. And I believe we should all, my big joke is I believe we should all work like a really solid three and a half days
00:34:18
Speaker
And then have all this time for family, friends and creativity. And it's funny, I say that, but as a therapist, I'm going to work till I drop dead. Like I love my work, but if I don't get rest, my body will tell me with chronic pain. There you go. With some of the things I wrote.
00:34:36
Speaker
And just with like fuzzy brainedness, we know that rest, by the way, is great for creative expression. So I take micro naps most days for, I call them micro 18 minutes to 20 minutes, closed eyes, weighted eye mask on, soft, you know, lights off, but not going into deep sleep, just a gentle nap. And I find that is really great for helping support my nervous system and coming back into the day feeling more rested.
00:35:04
Speaker
Yeah, I think the rest piece, it becomes controversial almost because we wonder, do we have time to rest? And I totally relate, you know, with, with the MBA, that was definitely, that was actually the time that I decided to eventually start the podcast. It didn't, it didn't actually happen until two years later, but that was the time when I realized how much I was putting into work and going to school that.
00:35:30
Speaker
my health was getting worse and I just wasn't feeling my best and it was a lot of stress. I even find now that a lot of the things that I really love and do for fun are also work. I serve in a couple of leadership roles in the community and I love it, but it is definitely, it takes a big toll. There are responsibilities there where
00:35:55
Speaker
I do need to kind of step back. And we had someone on the podcast not too long ago talking about human design. And while it's kind of a woo woo subject a little bit, you know, it was kind of talking about how my type does very well with like, it can get a lot done in about four hours. And then the rest of that time shouldn't be spent that way. And I, I find personally, I do work better in
00:36:19
Speaker
either shorter spurts or could get the same amount done in three and a half days. And would probably be much happier with the other day and a half of the work week, like spent a little more restoratively. But yeah, it is hard to actually practice that sometimes. And there's always because you're a creative and because you're offering this incredible service, there's always more work we can do. I'm writing a book. Well, there's a trap talk about but I don't do any good writing when I'm exhausted.
00:36:49
Speaker
I hardly do good writing when I'm refreshed because it's not my natural way, but I'm working on it. And we also have to know what kind of, I guess it's called chronotype we are. You know, are we an early riser? Are we a go to bed late type of person and find what are our hours when we're, I always ask people, when are you most energized? Do your work then. And there's restorative activities that are still getting things done, gardening and knitting.
00:37:15
Speaker
listening to audio books, but lying in bed when doing it. I know we live in a culture of optimize, optimize, optimize. And sometimes I'm like, just let the system rest. Everything needs to shut off for a little while.
00:37:29
Speaker
Yeah. I'm glad you mentioned the restorative rest because that's something I know for me, I can get into the habit of work, work, work, and then fall into a very deep Netflix spiral that goes way longer than I ever thought. And suddenly it's however many days later that I'm crawling out of the Netflix hole. And like sometimes that is kind of nice to have a little bit of time for that, but. Oh yeah. Oh yeah.
00:37:54
Speaker
I also think losing all track of time and suddenly realizing we're in a new month or whatever. There's definitely a point where it becomes a little destructive or that we're just numbing. And I think having those restorative practices, audiobooks are a big one for me and some kind of a listener and not a walk, but it's just so nice to have that.
00:38:17
Speaker
talk to me about restorative rest a little more and how we prioritize that. Because again, I think that optimizing is our first instinct. And just so you know, I'd say probably about 80% of the show, maybe 90% of the listeners are female. And so we have a lot of hats and a lot of responsibilities and a lot of people we put first.
00:38:38
Speaker
Oh my word. Oh my God. Just thinking, you know, of so many mom people out there or parent people out there. Good Lord. Yes. And most of my clients, at least 80% are female. And then I'm so blessed. The men who come in, I feel like they're handpicked. They're just such great people, but yes. And my students are probably 90% female. So I would really, if I'm allowed to recommend a book, the book Burnout by Emily Nagoski. Oh, she is delightful. She's amazing.
00:39:05
Speaker
We, so every one of your listeners will get that. That's their homework before they hear from you again. Burnout is real. So micro naps or restorative time. Some people say to me, I don't nap and totally fine. Can you close your eyes and put on the softest music? Can you go for a walk? Can you have slightly less caffeine later in the day? This doesn't just have to be for the fancy and wealthy, I'm not that, but lying the body down.
00:39:34
Speaker
changing the channel so to speak in our nervous system so we can come back because a lot of us are living on adrenaline. How can we come back to the parasympathetic, the rest and digest in the nervous system? Taking a short shower does that. Also being involved in sensory experiences, smelling something, tasting something.
00:39:57
Speaker
slowing down into the moment. I have found myself very often eating, standing up over the sink. So I am binging on all the best Netflix shows. I'm right there with you, Valerie. So remembering, it's writing about it. It's noticing when you get enough micro naps over a short of time, how much better you start to feel. It is essential.
00:40:21
Speaker
And I think in the world of overwork, optimizing, and especially in woman culture, it's go, go, go. A human is wearing so many hats. It just has to happen. There just has to be a letting everything wait and a closing up a shop for a little bit, turning everything off for a moment, giving oneself permission. And this isn't just fluffy. This is science. This is really important for our wellness because we're not getting enough sleep.
00:40:51
Speaker
And people, um, that's a whole other fabulous. I, one of my classes is all on sleep and it's always well attended because that's a real, we have another program on that, another episode. There's just so much, and it changes, you know, as we go through menopause and stuff. So we have to have all kinds of great sleep practices.
00:41:09
Speaker
So I could go on and on about that. Yeah. Oh yeah. Yeah. That's definitely, we'll have to do a, we'll have to do a part two on that because yeah, sleep is something I know I struggle with it from time to time. Most of the people I talk to at one time or another, they're, they're going through it too. And I think the turning things off, turning our electronics off, that is so hard for us to do sometimes. And I was reading an article maybe a couple of years ago about
00:41:37
Speaker
how people make fun of the millennial generation for not wanting to quote unquote adult, we don't want to call the doctor's office, we don't want to do this, we don't want to do that, like fear. And I have to put it on a list for the week of like, okay, this week, I'm going to call and schedule this appointment, like I have to work myself up to it.
00:41:55
Speaker
And I was wondering, why is that so hard for us? And something it was saying that was different from a lot of generations in the past was that when we got into the workforce, we were already plugged into everything. You're getting the emails on your phone. That's right. That's right.
00:42:09
Speaker
I answered an email, I remember approving an order on a mountain on vacation about a year or two into my job. Wow. Wow. I have since cut that off and have said, if I'm going to respond to anything, maybe do it from the hotel room, do it on downtime. Don't do it during the experience, but we are so plugged in and it's so hard to say, I need to turn this off. It's going to be okay if I turn the notification off or take a step back from this.
00:42:37
Speaker
I can tell you, I have never had notifications on. You will never hear a ding or a beep or anything. I've been called out on not being great at getting back to friends because I'm putting all of my energy to my beloved clients during the week. Shutting everything down feels good. It'll feel weird at first. I used to make fun of whatever, not make fun of, but get annoyed sometimes at millennial culture where the answering machine on the
00:43:02
Speaker
cell phone isn't even set up so that I can leave a message. I am forced to only text. I think that we are so plugged in and in some ways that is wonderful, but there is nothing like going analog. Try it for 24 hours. I went without my iPhone for 24 hours early on in the pandemic. And you know, I didn't know how to park the car because I was doing a pay by phone. So I got quarters and you know what? They worked. They really worked.
00:43:27
Speaker
And I didn't know how to tell my husband where I was because normally we have our phones set to find my phone. And I was like, he'll find me. And it was a magical day of exploration. So my hope is that we'll all shut everything off and put our phones into a sleeping bag. You know, there are even companies now, you know, with gadgets that we put our phones in that don't allow us to have access to all things plugged in. But the truth is you can shut it down. The longer you do it, the better it feels actually.
Self-Compassion & Guided Meditations
00:43:55
Speaker
It feels amazing. You will feel more creative. You will feel so much more in touch with yourself. Go analog, write a card, write a letter to someone and know that it's okay. You know, give yourself permission to go into needing those little hits of dopamine that we need from those great little beeps and things and buying something online or whatnot, but find it in another way. I think your generation's amazing and the millennial generation, I'm not
00:44:22
Speaker
Yours might be of a different name, but, or you may be millennial, but I suppose what I'm saying for the younger generations is either way, we were addicted to what we were addicted to back in our days too. It just took longer for it to happen. It was, you know, we still always have been seekers of dopamine as humans. So that's okay. Find other ways to get it. Jigsaw puzzles. I've written about that. The click, Valerie, is so powerful. The click of the piece.
00:44:50
Speaker
And to get that 1000 times, it was having me jump out of bed on cold mornings to get to my jigsaw puzzle. Then as soon as I finish it, I leave it at someone's doorstep. And all they were so grateful. So I think we all know by now jigsaw puzzles are the jam, right? I'm sure you're listening. Yeah, you know, and it's funny, I haven't done one in a little while. It was during the pandemic. I started picking them up again. Yeah, you'll get back. I have a bunch. Yeah, they're fun.
00:45:17
Speaker
And that's restorative time, Valerie. A listener can be like, oh, I don't have restorative, do jigsaw with your kid or do jigsaw and listen to something. Or if there's a work meeting that you don't have to have your face showing, but you need just the right amount of attentive, you can be attentive and do jigsaw. You're not looking at words or hearing words or so on.
00:45:36
Speaker
Yeah. Oh, I love that. And that really is restorative and it is so satisfying because I struggle a little bit with like my sister always says I could have used occupational therapy. Things don't intuitively sometimes come together for me and so it takes a little longer. And so it is so satisfying.
00:45:54
Speaker
Like, I feel like it is a therapy for me in a sense when I can get the pieces together and I'm finding what's going to fit. It's amazing. It's so it's so fun. And then it's so pretty when it comes out. So you get that dopamine hit. You get that reward. Every little click I used to when I was younger, I would see a jigsaw puzzle and I would smirk and roll my eyes because it looked like work. It looked a little mathy and it looked like work. I was so wrong. They are delightful and messy. And again, there is that
00:46:21
Speaker
We can find other ways to get that sweet joy. And again, it brings me back to movement because that's the quickest way. Move the body, sing a song, be embodied. You'll get there so quickly.
00:46:33
Speaker
Oh, yeah, absolutely. Now, you know, we got into a lot of really great topics here. One more that I would like to ask about kind of related and I think it ties into the movement. It also ties into the creativity. But I think in general in the work that you do something that I think so many of us struggle with is that self compassion.
00:46:53
Speaker
whether we're going through a difficult time or experiencing that anxiety or just living in this world, I think it can be a difficult thing sometimes. And I'd love to know in the work that you do, how do we increase our self compassion?
00:47:09
Speaker
I'm so glad you asked that Valerie, because I'm obsessed with it. I'm smiling right now. I give all credit to I think we all need to give credit to those before us. And I think a lot of your listeners are probably nodding and maybe you are too that Kristin Naff, a wonderful psychologist,
00:47:28
Speaker
and Tara Brock, a wonderful meditation teacher and psychologist and their teachers and the teachers before them. And now me, we're all obsessed with self-compassion. They call themselves jubus. It's not a bad word, Jewish Buddhists. I'm not Buddhist, but I love the term jubu. I'm allowed to say it. So mindful self-compassion is treating yourself with the kindness and gentleness you would with a beloved child or a dear, dear friend.
00:47:56
Speaker
The first thing I do is I make guided imagery, excuse me, guided meditation. I said they're very similar to guided imagery, but I'll do guided meditations with clients who are really in a perfectionistic state or really stuck in a spot of self-loathing or really deeply competitive. And, you know, they only got the silver medal, if you will, you know, of course silver is amazing, but, um, and we do some, you know, warm hand to warm hand. It's great if we're in person, but if not, we do it on zoom or the phone.
00:48:25
Speaker
placing the hands on the heart and going inward and being with oneself, just like you would the most beloved child and just going, I see you, you know, to yourself. I see you, you're a human and you're doing the best you can. And it's, we're all, it's a great wild ride being human, being in this human form. It's so much, it's amazing. We can get up and get dressed and have conversations and help people. So the first thing is slowing down.
00:48:54
Speaker
and receiving meditations. And Kristin Neff has very beautiful ones on her website, as does Tara Brock, where you can simply Google mindful self-compassion. It's listening in. And again, I like the guided meditations that I and other teachers lead, because if I say to you, just sit in silence and think good thoughts, good luck. Your monkey mind will be jumping around in minutes about all the chores you need to do. So it's slowing down.
00:49:21
Speaker
being with yourself in a state of mindfulness, meaning on purpose, with oneself, without judgment, just following in the moment being present on purpose without judgment. And coming back to this is different than pity. Compassion is of course not pity. It's just compassion, which means with passion, just being with softness, being with humanity,
00:49:47
Speaker
and being with an understanding of oneself and we get to do it again.
00:49:51
Speaker
And again and again, it doesn't just take one time. We'll need it again and again, because we are so much harder on ourselves than we can even imagine. I work with so many high achievers in the Bay Area. It is amazing to me how hard we are on ourselves. And some won't be attuned to self-compassion. Some people will say it's not their thing. It's too soft, because so many people hear self-compassion and worry
00:50:19
Speaker
Boy, is that weakness or vulnerability? It's not weakness, but it sure is vulnerability, which just means allowing yourself to feel, which is so much about resilience and strength. It won't have you weepy. It'll actually have you completely
00:50:36
Speaker
emboldened. So yeah, self compassion, as I said, self soothing self touch, using guided meditations and doing it again and again, to create new neural networks, because we're very rutted and rooted in meanness to ourselves.
00:50:52
Speaker
Oh, yeah, I think that that's so key because just even the non guided meditations, I know I've struggled with that where I think most people do where your mind shows in a million places at best, but then at worst, you could be saying the meanest things to yourself or beating yourself up for not sticking to the meditation or following it to the best possible, you know, 100% be the A plus meditator and
00:51:18
Speaker
That's not what it's about. So having that guidance to keep us from going down that path, but also yeah, allowing ourselves to feel the things that we feel and taking that instead of pushing it down, pushing it down and then ending up like, you know, we talked about the physical suddenly my neck hurts and my back hurts and I have no idea why. And that's right.
00:51:42
Speaker
Yeah. And so it just gets to that emergency point. So I really love this. I think that this work is so powerful and I could talk to you all day. We're definitely going to need to do a part two. I feel the same about you.
Rapid-Fire Insights & Closing Thoughts
00:51:56
Speaker
I feel like I've met my sister.
00:51:58
Speaker
What would be fun is to do a podcast and have your list. I don't know. I don't know the culture of podcasts. I don't know if listeners get to write to you, but you know what your listeners need and it's always, you know, it's anxiety. It's overworked nests. It's burnout, but to have myself lead a guided meditation that would be short and sweet, but you know, they could listen to that would really help them bolder and embolden and empower them and help soften some of that criticism. Yeah, it's really powerful.
00:52:28
Speaker
That would be amazing. We can definitely put that together. Yeah. Get some feedback from the audience and see what, what areas of that really would resonate. And that would, that would be amazing. I have some rapid fire questions. I'd love to ask you fabulous. So one of them we we've gotten into quite a few of these, but I'd love to know what your favorite self-care practices right now. Yeah. I think it's the micro naps and that's with soft music or birdsong. I have birdsong right out my window.
00:52:57
Speaker
lying down on my back on the bed with my cat on my legs. That's part of it. She's very warming. And as I said, just 18 minutes with the weighted eye mask. It's delicious. Sorry if I give you an answer that I already gave you, but that's the one. Yeah.
00:53:13
Speaker
No, but that's so powerful. And I love having, just having an animal there makes it all the better. I don't have any pets, but napping at my parents' house with the puppy has been, it's so nice when he'll, when he'll stay in one spot. Yes. Oh my gosh. Yeah. Absolutely. Yeah. So another one for you, if you had a one word theme, it could be for the year, it could be for this time in life, but if you had a one word theme, what would that be? Kindness.
00:53:43
Speaker
I love that. Absolutely. Kindness. Yeah, so powerful. And what are you most looking forward to? Oh, my God. I don't know if I'm I think I'm allowed to say this. I've been teaching at a retreat center and it's my 20th year teaching there. It's called the Omega Institute. And I'm really touched that I'll go there and the end, you know, go there later in the summer. I'm just deeply touched that I will be on that soil with, you know, beautiful people leading dance surplus for the
00:54:13
Speaker
for the 20th year, I don't know, that feels to me like a beautiful, sacred, giving back experience. So I'm deeply looking forward to sharing my work there. That's fabulous, and congratulations on 20 years.
00:54:27
Speaker
Thank you. So cool. And just so impactful. I think the work you do is truly inspiring. And I'd love to know more about where the listeners can connect with you, how they can learn more. And also, you mentioned a book that you're writing. So if you want to share a little about that, too.
00:54:43
Speaker
Like in this, in this moment. Oh, so the book, I will just say, um, wish me luck folks. It's a lot of work, but I'm enjoying, um, all the topics we talked about today will be covered in the book from sleep to my husband. I were talking about probably making it a bit of a workbook.
00:55:00
Speaker
A bliss workbook that people can utilize to have a little pocket therapist, which I think would be delicious. People can always ask me questions. I do not charge for questions or chats. And I am my websites are dancing your bliss, just like it sounds dancing your bliss.
00:55:17
Speaker
dot com and bliss counseling dot com. Counseling is a funny word. It's one L if you're in the States, but it's two L's if you live elsewhere. So it's bliss counseling with one L dot com. And then I can always be reached at my analog phone, four one five eight two zero three two two three, where you won't be able to text me, but you can leave me a message of any length. And that'll go into the ethernet.
00:55:46
Speaker
or my email, which is simply dancingyourblissatgmail.com. You can even write me a letter and I'll write you back. It's one of the things that I also do for self-care is I write letters and cards to people, which I just love doing. It just tickles me. I love that. My, I just got a letter from my mom today. I got a card from her and I, we do our snail mail and it's just, it's so nice. There's something about the written word, like physically written, but it's so meaningful.
00:56:14
Speaker
Yeah, it's it's like nothing else. My mom gives very good. Her handwriting is a mess. But she always creates really sweet things. The problem is I can't get rid of any of the cards because I know I've been told you can take a photo of them. But like I said, friends, there's nothing like analog. Valerie, you're so wonderful. And I am so
00:56:35
Speaker
tickled and touched and delighted to be here. And I feel a lot of tenderness and gratitude for this time. And I just hope your listeners are taking all the juiciness from all your wonderful guests and using that for their greatest joys and greatest health and greatest restorative time.
00:56:52
Speaker
Well, I so appreciate it. And thank you for the kind words. And I want to thank you for taking this time with our listeners, sharing this incredible wisdom with us. I think, again, it's so powerful and a lot of very actionable steps we can take away with us. So truly thank you from the bottom of my heart for coming on the show. The pleasure was mine. I enjoyed every moment. See y'all later.
00:57:15
Speaker
I loved my conversation with Rachel and consider her such a kindred spirit. Self compassion is something we talk about a lot on this show, but it's an important topic for us to keep exploring no matter where we are in our journeys. I also love the concept of incorporating movement and dance into our healing.
00:57:31
Speaker
because becoming embodied can really help us tune in and get that much more connected to ourselves. Rachel was truly inspiring and I really do look forward to welcoming her back to the show. If this conversation resonated with you, you can check out the show notes for Rachel's information so that you can connect with her.
00:57:48
Speaker
To lend your support to the podcast, I would love it if you would leave a rating and review on Apple podcasts or wherever you're tuning in from to let us know what you think. It truly makes a difference and only takes a few minutes out of your day. Thank you for being a part of the wellness and wanderlust community and keep on shining.