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Carol Butler
1k Plays1 year ago
Carol Butler is a ballpoint illustrator based in Boise Idaho, where she works seasonally as an organic farmer.
An avid cyclist, and Norm Macdonald fan. She spends her time being a day dreaming degenerate while getting lost in the throws of a good science fiction novel.
Featuring special guest host Sarah Romano-Diehl
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Transcript
Introduction of Hosts and Guest
00:00:01
Speaker
You are listening to something rather than nothing. Creator and host Ken Volante. Editor and producer Peter Bauer.
00:00:17
Speaker
This is Sarah Romano-Deal, and I am with Ken Volante and Carol Butler! Woo! And
Sarah's Introduction to Art and Philosophy
00:00:25
Speaker
we are on Something Rather Than Nothing podcast, which I was introduced to recently this month, and I love it, and I'm a huge fan, and we're gonna talk about art and philosophy with Carol Butler.
00:00:44
Speaker
I hate that my name's so fucking anticlimactic. It is not. It's just very flat, Carol Butler. Okay. There's nothing anticlimactic about you. Oh, thank you. Yeah.
Connections through Ivy and Whole Foods
00:01:01
Speaker
So I guess I should say how I found you, Carol, or met you online because we have a mutual friend named Ivy. Oh, I love Ivy.
00:01:14
Speaker
Me too, who lives in Arizona and just was raving about you and your art and was like, you got to follow Carol. So I checked you out and you just like exude energy and art and like life. So, so how do you know Ivy?
00:01:40
Speaker
We worked at Whole Foods together and he was this very sweet, I don't know if Prakash is the right word, but he's very useful. Yes. And just immediately endeared to my heart. We were working together. We have this mutual friend named Kelly that worked there. We both just always like to tease Kelly and call him Hot Kelly.
00:02:04
Speaker
I just, you know, through the yeah, just working at Whole Foods of all places. It's funny when I think of Ivy outside of the context of that. It's just funny like the people that you meet in like these weird corporate retail spaces because there's a lot of like rich, rich things going on in those people's lives. But yeah, that's how I met him. And he's just been funny. And we'll draw a text on Instagram every now and then. But I love that kid. Yeah.
00:02:35
Speaker
That's awesome. We went to art school together. He told me that. He told me that. Yeah, I was just like, it always frustrates me because you can't really share his photography online because his page is private. But he takes photos or just photos. Yeah. And used to paint. I have a giant painting of Ivy's. He paints.
00:02:55
Speaker
Yeah. Like, um, yeah, we were painting together and, uh, yeah, Ivy used to make the most gigantic paintings that are like really abstract cool stuff. So he's going to love that. We're talking about him right now. Shout out to Ivy. Shout out. Hey, when, uh, with, with the ad whole foods, uh, the CEO was famous in saying that unions are like herpes.
00:03:23
Speaker
oh
Whole Foods, Unions, and Conscious Capitalism
00:03:24
Speaker
my god yeah that guy sucks us in the labor movement remember remember that one and gosh we're annoying labor unions i get it but come on i mean we have a book called conscious capitalism which uh oh yeah we all got a good laugh at so yeah no that guy sucks imagine getting through that book and maybe somebody has how do you get through i mean your entree is
00:03:50
Speaker
Conscious capitalism. It is great to have Sarah Romana deal here. And as a matter of fact, Carol, I don't know if you know this, we're recording right now in mid-September.
00:04:08
Speaker
The
Norm McDonald: Humor and Darkness
00:04:09
Speaker
SRD episode of this is becoming known in the underground is is coming out in a day. Oh Yeah, yeah, yeah that that that episode um
00:04:24
Speaker
One thing I wanted to mention before we get into serious matters too is, you know when people share something online and you don't know me, but like something that somebody posts and puts you in just, you're like, this is rabbit hole territory, I'm lost forever. And there are dangerous people around and you ended up being one Carol and I saw some of these stuff with Norm McDonald. Oh yeah, I love that. Which, you know, I adored.
00:04:52
Speaker
God bless Canada. Thank you for that one. Thank you for that, but no thank you. Because for the last 36 hours, I've been on that frantic search for uncomfortable 9-11 jokes from Norm Macdonald. And there's no darker but more hilarious place to try to follow Norm.
00:05:19
Speaker
Well, I mean he's just he's so honorary I don't know like I mean I've been obvious of when we didn't start recording when I said this but I'm like I've just been an absolute mess right now so like Whenever I'm just like really in my head
00:05:33
Speaker
and it gets dark. I feel like I always go back to Norm McDonald's standups, which I mean, thank God for YouTube, because there's just like so much footage of him on there. But he's just such a true absurdist. And he just has like this very warm, buttery feel to him. But the way that he's able to like kind of like pounce back, like, I don't even know what I'm just trying to say, but he's very honoring. And it's very, it's like a very kind energy that I like being around.
00:06:02
Speaker
uh, in Norm McDonald's kind of, you know, internet space. Yeah. Sarah, you dig on Norm? I love Norm. Yeah, he's great. I should go down a rabbit hole with Norm.
00:06:13
Speaker
Oh, yeah. You know, the one thing about him before we ask you serious questions, Carol, of consequence in the history of philosophy is with Norm, there's this technique that I'm like, it's my kryptonite for laughter where
00:06:34
Speaker
the inflection of the word or the slightly wrong word or the slight mispronunciation of somebody's name. I'm like, how do you stumble at that comedic key that fits into me? We just say it just wrong in this fucked up way and it just messes with your head.
00:06:52
Speaker
Oh, yeah. Well, and it's like he's clocking you the whole time. You know what I mean? And he just does like that old man cadence with things and like the way he talks about like old man rafferty and I don't know. Whatever he figured out. Very wonderful. I love him. All right. But this is this is about this is about Carol Butler, which is not. Yep. Not anti climactic. It's a hamburger of a name.
00:07:19
Speaker
Hey, this is America, right? So hamburgers are, hamburgers are revered here. I'm vegan, but hamburgers are revered in here. Uh, Sarah hit, hit, uh, Carol with one of the like big art questions. Carol,
Art as Personal Reprieve
00:07:34
Speaker
what do you think art is? Oh God, that's loaded. Um, no, not anticlimactic. Uh, I mean,
00:07:47
Speaker
I mean, it could be so many things, you know? Like, I mean, I'm sure you've had a bunch of people kind of, like, get settled with this question, like, not really know how to respond to it. I think, for me, art, I think that there's, like, my academic perception of what art is, and I think that that's kind of a mistake. I think, and I've, like, spent a long time trying to, like, unlearn that because, um,
00:08:10
Speaker
I didn't go to art school. I can say what art was for me was definitely a reprieve. I was constantly going back and forth as a child between schools. So I was always the new kid in places. And I think the thing that helped me cope with my introversion was drawing on a paper.
00:08:31
Speaker
Because I could do that and be solitary I wasn't eating like gum paste or anything like that And it was just like very exciting to kind of like see like where these like kind of doodles would take you and you like check out I mean I don't
00:08:45
Speaker
Yeah, I don't know how, what I would say. Yeah, for me it's reprieve, it's ultimate reprieve. I mean, the mess and bullshit that I'm going through right now, like the way that I do, I kind of do like that classic bottling up of certain things and then maybe like a few times a year, it just all gets purged. Cause it takes me a really, like, I mean, the way that I process my own emotions is almost at a glacial pace. And then I can go on a bike ride and then I'm like, oh, this is what I want to say.
00:09:12
Speaker
Like this is kind of like the type of revenge or whatnot that I'm trying to get out on paper. But it takes me a really long time for that. So yeah, I mean, I would say for me, it's yeah, it's a reprieve and then a purging. I don't know. I
Processing Emotions through Art
00:09:29
Speaker
don't know if that answers your question. Yeah. That's a great answer. Yeah. Yeah. Go ahead, sir.
00:09:40
Speaker
Well, I was going to say you mentioned going on a bike ride and then you were able to like process thoughts and stuff about emotions. Like, I was just curious, like, like moving your body. Is that something that just like helps your brain function? Do you think?
00:09:57
Speaker
Oh God, a hundred percent. I mean, it's, you know, I was really into weightlifting for a really long time and I think I was going like through like the dark Henry Rollins mode of it.
00:10:12
Speaker
And I think for the longest time it was like for an aesthetic reasons but I think ultimately you know a lot of this stuff is like the way that like kind of like lives are designed right now is like you really kind of take for granted how much better you feel after moving and there's kind of like that long swing of it where they want you to move too much but um
00:10:31
Speaker
For me, it's just, especially with bike rides in Idaho, because there's not much to fucking do out here. Going on long bike rides and doing kind of like an arduous climb, like nothing makes me feel better than that. And I haven't been doing enough lately, but I think, I mean, that, that, yeah, exercise, Jesus Christ. I mean, outside of wanting to lose weight and creepy diet culture, I think that's the best thing that you can do for yourself. Yeah.
00:10:58
Speaker
What were you going to say, Ken? Did I change your train of thought? No, no, it's just so much to jump into. Carol, I was interested just on the piece of you saying processing emotion at a glacial pace and just like that thing. Because one of the things about art for me, and just for example, last week I worked with a colleague of mine
00:11:27
Speaker
who is new to painting and I've never taken painting courses, but there was a simple kind of like technique to create something out of with the plate laying down various colors and things like that. And so with the show and me, like I try to actively use art
00:11:46
Speaker
process stuff but when you said the glacial pace on the motion stuff I really like tied into that because a lot of people don't say that like I said it myself like I talked to like my therapist and I'm like how do you know like like when you process stuff out like I have that problem of being like
00:12:03
Speaker
Like not necessarily, like have I dealt with this and is this out? And where does the art fit in for you? I mean, is it the physicality to get to that point as far as like processing it better or getting it out? And is that what the art does for you? Help you process those things that are stuck or glacial? Well, you know, everything,
00:12:32
Speaker
Like I feel like especially like so we all came together via the internet, right? People want or at least in the way that we create content, which like kind of makes me want to throw up and thinking in arts regards to that, because I mean, my Baban, she was my, my dad's mother. She was telling me because she was an art student, she said basically she was just like, you kind of can look at like the art is like reflective of the people.
00:12:58
Speaker
the time right so like in Renaissance times or whatever like all this stuff would take like people would spend like I don't know however long on these paintings and it's just like now just via like the kind of like tools accessible to us you're getting this like really quick turnover on a lot of the stuff that you see that's kind of like popular in art now right and I'm not gonna take any public digs at anybody but a lot of it is just like very quick turnover and I feel for me you know with processing things
00:13:28
Speaker
I um you know it's kind of like me being settled with like grief you know like a relationship will end and it takes me a really long time to like figure out exactly what it is that has upset me about that particular relationship or like what i'm actually feeling that i've lost and sometimes i mean the thing is is that you you don't really figure that shit out overnight like i mean your response to it is immediate right like i'm upset i'm fucking pissed like why did they do that
00:13:56
Speaker
But you know, there's like things that you can like unpack from your childhood that like I'm not really ever going to fully understand till I'm like my mom's age at that time when she did that. So I think when I talk about like processing that stuff and how it relates to art, I mean, I am kind of committed to this like ballpoint medium, which takes a really long time to work with.
00:14:18
Speaker
Um, it's just kind of me, at least where I'm at and the way that I make stuff is accepting that like my stuff is going to take a lot longer. And that also means that I'm not getting a quick return on like validation for the stuff that I'm doing. I'm not getting like any type of like a growth in like my audience. If that's how that we're like kind of like quantifying the success of an artist in the internet age.
00:14:42
Speaker
But I think it is better because everything is so immediate and you want that gratification. I want to know why the fuck I'm feeling this way now. It's such an unhealthy way, at least for me, to process things. And it's way more uncomfortable to sit with these things for a long time and really dissect the reasonings, why you're feeling the way that you're doing.
00:15:08
Speaker
I don't know where I was going with this point. But yeah, for the process and the glacial thing of it, it's definitely been a practice for me to go slower. Because when I do things too fast, and I feel like I want to post something, or I want to be like, this motherfucker, so here's this thing, it's cheap. For me, it's cheap. And the good things take a lot longer. You know what I mean? It's not to say that if you have a quick turnaround on a thing, that it's not
00:15:34
Speaker
uh what you call it a value or anything like that but i think i'm a little bit too reactive in my things so for my own you know self i have to be a little bit more disciplined in the way that i go about these things so it has to be slower for me i don't know if that makes any sense that kind of felt meandering no i had a question for you know sarah connected to your art but one of the things i want to say carol about um
00:15:59
Speaker
and seeing your art. So I see it, you know, on Instagram, it's a great circumstance in life and accident for us to be doing this show together. So that's like, super cool. But I want to tell you straight up, like I was looking at, I was looking at the illustration and I love the ballpoint too, for some reason for me, it just like couldn't be more fascinated with like how that's done or just how it just quickly emerges. But just gorgeous work. Yeah, gorgeous. I mean, like,
00:16:28
Speaker
Yeah, that kind of like instant. I don't know if you felt it Sarah, but like the instant like it's like This is this is this is an ink person like it's tough to describe like this is an ink like coming out Sarah I you know, I I adore your art in in in your illustration What does looking at Carol stuff mean for you with your mind in? Illustration. Yeah, what's that experience? well
00:16:56
Speaker
I literally my jaw dropped first time I saw your drawings, Carol. Seriously. Because they're so you can tell that it's taken you time to you it's delicately done but they're also very strong and like well formed and balanced and just the
00:17:27
Speaker
I can just tell the way you've applied the pen to the paper is just so skillful. I mean, yeah, I look at, I just like want to like look at the drawings for a long time. So I love that you said that about taking time and processing things and intentionally letting things take the amount of time that they need to be what it becomes because it's worth it. Definitely.
00:17:53
Speaker
Oh, thank you for saying that. I'm already on such an emotional ice right now that made me kind of want to cry. Thank you. I feel like it's more to reflect on that stuff.
00:18:05
Speaker
You know what I mean like when they see people can't really see themselves clearly So it's just kind of like I think you kind of like take a compliment or feedback with the bat I'm like, oh that was I appreciate hearing that. Yeah to us both both hosts both hosts are gushing. So But Carol when did you see yourself as an artist I asked this of all all the folks who come on to the show like some folks are being like
00:18:30
Speaker
I came out of the womb in a, you know, with a paintbrush and a motorcycle, you know, like, but what about, what about, what about for you? When did you see like an identity terms? You're like, yo, I'm an artist. Oh God. I, you know what? I don't know that I still see myself that way. Uh, yeah, I don't know that I ever did. I think that there was, um, I spent a lot of time doing graffiti, like when I was a teenager and I really liked, uh, talking about like quick turnovers like that. It kind of.
00:18:59
Speaker
Like I'll vacillate between things that I want to be like really intense experiences with art. And I think with that, it's graffiti. And I think like, you know, graffiti was like all identity, right?
00:19:11
Speaker
But even then it felt disingenuous to be like, I mean, whatever my dumb little tag name was, I was like, yeah, I'm Quinn. That always just kind of felt really stupid to me. I don't want to give this kind of like a blanket statement, but I mean, given the opportunity, I feel like most people can embody that of an artist. It's creating the internal, you know,
00:19:39
Speaker
you're taking whatever's happening internally and then you're turning it out right so that doesn't that's always not limited to you know mediums that you can buy in an art store as far as like yeah you know considering myself an artist i think i've like engaged in that stuff but most often i mean i feel more comfortable being like saying like i'm a produce manager before i'm a artist because it just again with like kind of like the things of like being loaded i don't know if that's like um
00:20:04
Speaker
you know, probably what we all struggle with, which is imposter syndrome. I have all these kind of like really dated perceptions of like what an artist is. And a lot of that is, like I said earlier, tied to academia. So for me, it's like, it's really hard to like say that. And I don't know if I'm being too precious about it. But, you know, when people call me that I'm like, I'm kind of more of a piece of shit than an artist. But yeah, I don't know.
00:20:32
Speaker
It feels like a big term, you know, it's very grand. You know what I mean? And it's, you know, talk about something that's so open to chicanery. I just, you know, I have such a hard time with the term artist because I mean, that can mean so many different things. So yes, I mean, I would say before I'm an artist, I'm a day laborer who draws sometimes.
00:20:56
Speaker
Yeah, creative in the capitalist system, definitions, definitions, definitions in flux, I guess, right? Oh, yeah.
Art's Role in 2023's Challenges
00:21:08
Speaker
Yeah. I mean, creating in capitalism. I mean, that's the real art, right? Well, now, so you're based out in Idaho.
00:21:20
Speaker
Yeah, I've been in Idaho for the past, uh, oof, like I want to say eight years now on this. Jesus. I got, I got mixed up one time on the time zone thing. Right. Cause I, so I'm from Rhode Island, the East, the East coast. Oh yeah. I hear that. Yeah. Yeah. So like, you know, I have a meeting, I have a union meeting one time. I was a statewide organizer, uh, for my union doing some political stuff and I had a meeting out there and I'll be like Nissa way Eastern Oregon.
00:21:49
Speaker
And driving to the meeting, and I get that first instance when I pass by the sign that says Mountain Time Zone. And I'm like, oh, fuck, I'm an hour late for my meeting right off the bat, and I haven't even started. I'm like, oh, change the time zone in this big old state of Oregon, which I didn't know until that point. Oh, yeah.
00:22:11
Speaker
Yeah, no, we were talking about time zones earlier. I'm like, oh god, I'm doing simple math again. And it's not something you can have on your fingers. So I was like, I'm going to leap in. I hope this is correct.
00:22:22
Speaker
You can handle, uh, can handle mountain time. It's a New Zealand, uh, Oregon to New Zealand. That can be the, that can be the tough one. Um, Carol, what do you think the, I mean, you talked a bit about it and talked about art a bunch. Do you think art has a specific role? And does it have a specific role here in 2023? I mean, if the skies are going on fire, all this stuff's going on political.
00:22:50
Speaker
whatever if it feels that way is is is the role of art different right now i don't know that it's different i think it's more challenging right now like um you know i feel like i every now and then i see that quote floating around but they're just like of course i'm like these precarious times like this is when you need art most and that is true
00:23:17
Speaker
That is definitely true. But I think just in the sense that like, you know, the people who do create these things were very sensitive people. And it's just like you, you cannot engage in the news cycle right now without kind of feeling like everything actually is falling in on you. You know what I mean? A big thing that I wrestle with is climate doom. Like I have a really hard time with figuring out what like the moral implications are of checking out on that.
00:23:47
Speaker
Because I can't create when I feel like Chicken Little, like I just can't. And I mean, that's therein lies like the necessity for going on a bike ride so I can get the fuck out of my head. I think art is very important. It's integral to the human spirit, you know, we all engage in it. It really is and like I don't want to sound like a cliche person, but I mean,
00:24:09
Speaker
uh just when you talk about like this writers strike and stuff like that like everybody was taking you know speaking over pre-use in like television shows you know what i mean like i can't remember how how much music i listened to during the pandemic breakdown because i didn't have to engage with customers you know what i mean because i was a produce manager wouldn't
00:24:28
Speaker
That was happening. It still is happening and people wrote some beautiful music I mean one of the most heartbreaking things to me about like the span of the human is the fact that like I only get however many years I'm still not gonna hear all the songs that are gonna change my day. You know what I mean? Art is so important
00:24:49
Speaker
where we're at right now in this moment, my heart goes out to everybody just in the sense that it has been extremely difficult for me to create now. Because I feel like you start to see the futility in a lot of these things, especially in the sense of it really feels, and I live in fucking Idaho, you can feel the fascism creeping in.
00:25:11
Speaker
And that is really difficult to carry every day. So yeah, as far as like, you know, is art important? Yes. Art is important. And I would say this too, because I had a really beautiful dinner with a friend of mine last night. He was just like, you owe it to yourself to check out. You have to figure out how to, and I don't know if this is like,
00:25:38
Speaker
I'm not a psychiatrist. I don't know if what I'm saying right now is negligent to people, but I know for myself, like if I can't figure out how to compartmentalize things, it will all start to cave in on me. So go on a fucking bike ride. Get off your phone for a while, even if you have to just do it for a day and just kind of like muscle through the suck of the first few hours of when you're drawing, because dude, I will draw. And there are days where I'm like, have I even fucking ever drawn before? This is all horseshit.
00:26:09
Speaker
Yeah, yeah, I just, to kind of drive home that point, it is very important, I think. Because, I mean, I think about the things that, like, incite me to stay alive have been beautiful art pieces, you know what I mean? And there's too many to reference right now, but, you know, I feel like it's just really one of those places where you can find communion with other people and be like, I am not alone in this shit show. Like, you see it happening too.
00:26:38
Speaker
I just think it's so fucking tough. Everything is so tough right now. On a psychic level, it's so fucking tough. Everybody that I talk to right now is just like, holy Santa Claus shit, what the fuck? We're also even contending with this bystander effect because it feels like everybody should be running outside screaming, but you're not seeing that happening.
00:26:58
Speaker
You know what I mean? Yeah. So that's, that's another kind of like, I don't, it's this dystopic psychedelic thing that I kind of see and I got to like, you're getting me on a particularly manic a but there's certain days I'm just like, Oh, man, yeah, Carolyn.
00:27:14
Speaker
you need to run you need to like lift some weights or do something but yeah yeah i can't say enough how much uh i think art is important because it truly is i mean even if i'm sitting in like a kind of precious way like i don't think that most people realize how important it is i don't think that i realize how important it is just been to me and sustaining myself
00:27:36
Speaker
Mm hmm. Okay, I have a question about that kind of.
Motivations in Art: Personal vs. Audience
00:27:40
Speaker
So there's like the the importance of, like you said, processing and making art helps you. But also for the viewer, like, what do you think? Do you feel I mean, it seems like yeah, it's like, even when it's, it's most important, it can be the most difficult to create, right? Like you're saying and I guess like, when you so
00:28:07
Speaker
Do you think about the viewer when you're making your art at all and the importance of what someone's going to get from it? Or is it all, do you just kind of do it?
00:28:18
Speaker
No, I mean, no. You know, who I most think about is and I have to block him regularly because I was just so mortified when I found out he started following me online as my dad. Because I feel like I can be like very sexually indulgent in a lot of things because I mean, the major theme in my life has been unpacking trauma bonding through my relationships with men.
00:28:40
Speaker
You know what I mean? And I think there's a part of me that's very embarrassed by that because I would like to think I have more depth than that. Like I could go and go on some like Carl Sagan, you know, tangent and I could like mystify millions. But I mean, I'm very limited to a Sex and the City experience, unfortunately.
00:29:00
Speaker
So it's it's it's very like kind of Cringy when I think of my dad watching this but I as far as the audience goes No, I mean, I'm not really concerned with the audience. My art isn't about them. Yeah, you know whether or not they respond to it great But no, I mean this is just me like unpacking my bullshit Carol
00:29:25
Speaker
one of the big questions so we can kind of clear it out of the way. Cause like, uh, you know, it's the something rather than nothing question. Um, clear it out of the way. And then we can talk like some other bullshit, uh, a little bit more. This
Philosophical Reflections on Existence
00:29:41
Speaker
might be bullshit. That must be the most bullshit question there is. Why is there something rather than nothing? Oh God. You know, I, uh, I lived at a Buddhist center for about, uh, two, three years off and on in Albuquerque.
00:29:55
Speaker
And I remember we had this, he's like the guy who headed the thing. He was the head lom or whatever. And I won't go into this organization's name, but it was filled with a bunch of rich people who I think struggled with the philosophical struggle of like, why do I work for Sandia Labs, you know? And how can I interact with Buddhism, which I thought was very precious.
00:30:24
Speaker
So I remember we were at some conference and he was just kind of like going on and on and all these people were like very particularly impressed with this guy and I just I wasn't very moved by whatever the fuck he was saying but I just got so frustrated and I remember having this problem with Disney movies when I was younger like why is there problems versus just not having problems?
00:30:48
Speaker
And I remember I asked him the same thing. I mean with the Disney movies I was just stressed out. I'm like this fucking earth a little bit. She needs to chill the fuck out.
00:30:58
Speaker
Those movies are extremely dis-regulating for children, just FYI. Yeah, dude, I remember we were having this lecture and he was kind of just making like this weird point and I was just like, none of this makes sense to me. And I still, I mean, I can't answer this question because I mean, he's supposed to be of this grand mind and he just gave me this bullshit answer. He was like, well, why is there the monkey or the blah, blah, blah?
00:31:25
Speaker
And I just remember looking at him and being like, no, what is the evolution of karma? You know what I mean? And the actual sense of it. It's like cause and effect, yeah. Like, why the fuck did all this happen? And I think until the last human burns out, I think we're going to be kind of just faced with that question. Or you don't engage with that question because it's a little bit too big. I don't have the answers why something
00:31:55
Speaker
or nothing. There are days where I wish there was nothing, but there is something. We have Prince. Prince is something. Prince is incredible. I went on this trip a while ago. Oh my God. I talked about something.
00:32:09
Speaker
Yeah, and I just started to celebrate the entire catalog of yes, and I was like, Holy shit, you know, when you like find a band that you kind of like shelved, and then for whatever reason, you give yourself permission to explore it, like when you're 36, finally, and you're like, how, you know, kind of just like,
00:32:29
Speaker
oversaturation of most classic rock that I never hear in and around about by yes. What do we need to know about yes? Yeah. What do we need to know about yes, Kara?
Discovering the Band Yes
00:32:39
Speaker
I mean, you dropped into this, you feel that at your age, you waited too long to get into this, you're dropping into what's going on with yes that we need to know.
00:32:48
Speaker
just that it was incredible. If you're already oversaturated with it, which I mean, I'm sure a lot of people are, it was just incredible. It was incredible. I couldn't get stoned in this particular country. So hearing that song was just it was just like, it was just such a good rip of music. And I mean, we can go on. Yeah, I don't know. It was just it was incredible. You know, like when you see somebody who like just started watching a show that you've already watched five times and you wish
00:33:13
Speaker
you had that blank perspective that they were watching. It was almost like a gift. I was like, I'm actually happy. I haven't heard this song until now.
00:33:21
Speaker
that is fun and particularly sometimes like the there's something where I don't know if either you can do it but like on that point where if it's like so like maybe maybe time centric or you have the feel for like culturally might what have been going what's going on there but you drop into it in such a heavy way for the first time completely out of context 2023 and being like
00:33:44
Speaker
I don't know these songs. I should have and you go through the album. It's so strange to listen to it. Just I don't know. I see it in terms of time just ripped out, you know, a space. Oh, yeah. And it's just so rich. It was so rich. Yeah. Oh, my God. Yeah. I had a lot of good times. Just listen to those. And I just railroaded all those songs and now I can't hear them. So now I'm actually where I should be as a 36 year old person with yes in the cultural collective.
00:34:13
Speaker
Well, the difficulty for me, I've listened to hip-hop forever and now like old-school hip-hop people like
00:34:20
Speaker
Young younger kiddos like saying this and they're talking like shit in 2015 and it's just Really killing me cuz like I know like my old-school hip-hop like 83 84 like that's not even like in the books anymore Like people know that it's wait there, but it's like almost like silent movies and I'm like, that's old-school hip-hop, isn't it? And it's like the other thing too That's like hard for me to like digest a lot of times cuz I like I was very much into like punk
00:34:50
Speaker
And to me, it's like it's like a mutable feature of youth, right? It's something that I associate with youth. So it's like now when I see like I remember, oh, my God, who the fuck was that guy? It was like Keith. It was one of the original lead singers of Black Black Flag. I was with my buddy in Hollywood and he was sitting next to us and I was like, you're not supposed to get old, man. Like you're supposed to stay in that mutable space. You know what I mean?
00:35:20
Speaker
And, uh, it's really weird to see that happen. I don't know. So I, yeah, I feel that with, uh, like, uh, what you call it hip hop too. Cause I mean, that's something that I feel like is synonymous with youth. You know what I mean? Hip hop is 50. Yeah. What's, uh, what was your tag there? You said you didn't like your tag. You thought it was silly, Carol.
00:35:41
Speaker
God no, no, we won't talk about that We'll leave that there. We'll leave that there. I had a breakdancing. I had a breakdancing tag. I didn't tag I So I was um sphinx Because because this white boy coming out of the background You didn't know what was coming It was a riddle
00:36:09
Speaker
You know, so they're like, all right, you know, Hey, sorry, you have a, you have a breakdancing name or is that too much of an assumption? I have taken some breakdancing lessons from a friend of mine that I'm really bad. I don't have a name. That's all right. You can. Yeah.
00:36:31
Speaker
You, a lot of the first names I came up with were taken by other people and each one of those people could have picked me up and spun them, even me on their finger and thrown me into the bushes. So I went through a few names to make sure I had the right name. Sarah, we have
Creative Challenges and Art Commissions
00:36:48
Speaker
other art questions or rando questions, a couple more to hit Carol with. Yeah, Carol, I wanted you to talk about your murals a little bit if you would, like, and like, do you just like,
00:37:02
Speaker
to like, do people commission you to do the murals? Or are you like, this is a great wall, etc? Oh, my I've pissed off a lot of people with commissions. The, you know, what's funny is there, we have this tree fort music event in Idaho or Boise, excuse me. And a couple kids, they like saw me doing window painting for a couple of
00:37:30
Speaker
the events that we had prior and they were just like, oh, okay. They're like, we want to recruit you to do this. We'll give you X amount of money, duh, duh, duh, duh. But they're like, we need to see your sketch of it first. And I mean, this is like months out. And to me, I mean, opposite of what I do with like the ballpoint illustration, like graffiti needs to be immediate. When I started doing graffiti, it was the product of basically having like a nervous breakdown.
00:37:57
Speaker
And I would have to go into these things where I'm just like, what can put me in an immediate space? I was already drawing. I grew up with this kid who was my best friend and her older brother was into graffiti. And so I had all those, whatchacollids.
00:38:12
Speaker
magazines and I was just like totally mystified by it because it's just like one of the things that I feel like a lot of people who grew up with the internet and I mean mind you I did too I'm not that old yet is that there were still like you would run into these things where it would still be shrouded in mystery so graffiti was very intriguing to me because my access to it was all via magazines like there was no context outside of those magazines
00:38:36
Speaker
Um, so with the graffiti stuff, it needs to happen spontaneously for me. So when they asked me for like the sketch, I was like, yeah, okay. I was like, here's something like, yeah, that's what it will look like. Cause it has to get approved by the city.
00:38:50
Speaker
It was funny, so when we finally started executing it, I mean, I ended up doing something totally different from the sketch, and the guy was like, yeah, I was kind of nervous, because we didn't really know what the fuck this was. And he was just like, oh, this looks great, though. And I was like, yeah, sorry. I always, people will ask me to do stuff for them. And I was like, I have to give you a huge disclaimer. It's going to take two years longer than you think it will happen. And then I don't know what it's actually going to look like. It's just going to happen.
00:39:20
Speaker
That's so honest. I love it. It's so real. You are such a real artist. I don't know about that. I somehow are fakie and undisciplined.
00:39:31
Speaker
I've you had it was almost like to be get like the line at the beginning like great teaser on the podcast. It's like I pissed off so many questions. What about your commissions? I pissed off so many people cut. No, truly. I did. She pissed off. And those are people that will go on my block list. I like for some reason I was like looking at privacy settings recently and I was like, why are all these people blocked?
00:40:00
Speaker
And I was like, oh, these are people that I owe commissions to. And I was like, oh, Jesus Christ. It's one way of stacking. It's the reason why I stopped taking deposits, because it's just like I run into somebody. I'm like, oh, fuck, you gave me $100. Yeah, I just had to stop doing it. It's too much pressure. It's just, you know, that's the other motivating thing behind art. Like, do I do it for an audience? Is money motivated? It's for fucking me. It's entirely for me. It's a coping thing.
00:40:30
Speaker
So it's just like when people like want to, you know, get something for themselves, I'm like, I don't want to draw your fucking kid. Like, I'm glad that you like my art and you want it to be like, you know, your kid to be a part of it. But I'm just like, I just I mean, sorry, Matt, if you hear this, but yeah. I get it. Yeah, I'm like, no, it's this is about me. Not you, which is sad, but I don't know. Yeah, commissions are a tough one for me. Yeah.
00:41:00
Speaker
What's the most recent thing that you've created? Oh, God, what was, you know, a buddy of mine, I was, I just been going through it recently. And I was like, dude, I was like, I do have a spot I can paint up here. And he's like, Yeah, there's this place. And then there's this place. And then there is like a place. God, I'm so bad with names, dude, my turnaround on short term memory is just getting terrifying.
00:41:29
Speaker
Table Rock. So there's this huge giant, you know, statement cross up on the top of this hill and they have all these buildings back there that a bunch of people will paint on. And he was like, yeah, you can go up there. I didn't realize how much of a hike it was because they stopped letting people drive up there. So I'm still not done with it. I'll probably go do that after this today. But yeah, that's probably the most recent thing and that is with spray paint.
00:41:55
Speaker
I mean, I'm reticent to call it like graffiti because it's not really graffiti, but yeah. Sweet. I hope to see photos of it. That's all I was just going to say. I said, I think there's a part of this where there's this interest in the art you do and how you do it. And there's far more of a curiosity. So yeah, we'd love to see pictures of that. Not to intrude, but
00:42:17
Speaker
Yeah, um, one thing you had mentioned, uh, Albuquerque and I, um, I had never been down to, uh, New Mexico and I went, um, I had, uh, some business there, a couple of the union business.
Albuquerque's Influence on Creativity
00:42:30
Speaker
I went down there a couple of times and, um, I had never, uh, it's really tough to describe, but when I was there, I was, I, I felt like really comfortable.
00:42:42
Speaker
But it was strange that I felt so comfortable because there was something strange about the winds and those desert winds. Yeah, you're talking about Albuquerque? Yeah, I was so sensitive to like... Dude, it's fucking sinister. There's something sinister about it. What's the deal? Tell me right now what's going on with that. You know, I don't know what to say about it. I can't really particularly put my finger on it because I remember when I would go there as a child.
00:43:10
Speaker
Um, my family's lived there for like, I mean, before Albuquerque was a state, at least on my mom's side. Um, and there's something like, you know, when they talk about like land of manana, there's a reason why there's like a huge, even still to this day, like a huge, just robust arts community. Like in a way that like, I don't really see existing in a lot of places. And this is the thing that's really heartbreaking about the fact that it fucking costs an obscene amount of money to live anywhere is the fact that it was so cheap.
00:43:39
Speaker
You could kind of just not be anything there and just draw. You know what I mean? Like I really like the most I've ever created was an Albuquerque. There's really an environment that supports it. I think to the other end, why is it so sinister? You it's it's impoverished. You know what I mean? And it's actually quite I'm hesitant to use the word shocking, but the last few years that I visited there,
00:44:07
Speaker
The poverty has skyrocketed. You can't ignore it at this point. There never used to be tents in the highway. You can say this about most American cities.
00:44:21
Speaker
In conjunction with the poverty, the fact that it is so beautiful, Albuquerque and those Sandia Mountains, when you get the sunset, there is something just unparalleled. I have been to a lot of different places. I still have never seen any place as beautiful as this. And it's just, yeah, I don't know. It's just striking. You think that it wouldn't have or be as troubled. And I mean, that's a whole nother historic
00:44:50
Speaker
capitalist type of podcast that we could talk about why Albuquerque is the way that it is but um yeah i don't know it feels like you know like being in love with an addict or something there's something just like a little bit off and you're not really ever gonna get it but it's so gorgeous i i don't know i don't know if that's like the right uh what you call it but yeah even now because i'm probably going to be going there at the end of this month it's just yeah it's i don't know i mean maybe that therein lies the nature of like what sinister means you can't put your finger on it
00:45:21
Speaker
Yeah. Do you think it's history? Like that ghosts and stuff? Like, I don't know. Oh, yeah, that too. Yeah. I mean, we're just I just found out that like a Hawaii has something. It's not like the equivalent of skin walkers. I forget what they're called. But we're talking about that. But yeah, I mean, it shrouded in like folklore. You know what I mean? Like, I think La Llorona is from there too. Yes, spooky shit. You've got like the whole. I mean, that whole Oppenheimer movie just came out and like,
00:45:48
Speaker
Just, um, yeah, there's all kinds of, you know, when I grew up there, I didn't realize how rich it was in history with historical stuff. Cause you look at, you're like, Oh my God, they kind of like turn this place out with like, uh, that kind of like corny Southwest stuff. But I mean, there's a lot of stuff happening there. Like, I mean, I really do actually love Albuquerque. I, uh, yeah. Well, thank you. I mean, there's, there's a lot there. I mean, there's something that I picked up that was,
00:46:17
Speaker
it just just just bigger in in mysterious and was a powerful energy but was interested there was an attraction of me towards the energy even though it contained those elements because I think it contains a lot of complicated elements like you said the other piece that was new uh to me is being around native community like as part of the like city like oh yeah like I was like I'm like I'm
00:46:44
Speaker
like going through and stuff, but I'm like, I'm like visiting like a different community and it isn't structured that way most places that I've been as far as Oh, dude, that's that's a great point, too. I mean, it's having grown up there. It's actually incredible contrast coming to Idaho.
00:47:08
Speaker
It's just like night and day. Like, I mean, it's not to say that like Idaho isn't beautiful and it definitely has these things that are like, oh my God, it'll resonate with you. But it's just, there is something very spectacular about New Mexico.
00:47:21
Speaker
that, yeah, I don't know. And it's completely informed by the indigenous population there. And then just, you know, like the kind of like colonialism or colonization that happened there, excuse me. I mean, I'm gonna start talking out of my depth here, but yeah, yeah, it's an incredibly complicated place, but incredibly beautiful. Holy shit.
00:47:44
Speaker
Well, I was just there this last year in January, I think, or this year. Yeah. And it was really cool to visit. I flew in there and got picked up by Ivy. Actually, I saw my friend Warren who lives in New Mexico.
00:48:01
Speaker
I just, when I lived in Colorado in the four corners in college, people always were making mean jokes about Albuquerque and stuff, you know, and like talking it down. That's also warranted too though.
00:48:17
Speaker
Maybe, I know, I know there's like, I guess there's like a gun violence crisis kind of going on. Yeah, Jesus Christ. Yeah, but it was nice to just be there this year. I was like, appreciating all the beautiful things about it, I feel like. And it was cool to have like my friends who are so familiar with it, like tell me all about, you know, just like, yeah, history and beautiful places that you can go and hike and
00:48:47
Speaker
Yeah. I was grateful for that experience. I think people should go visit Albuquerque. Yeah, this is not not sponsored. The complicated history and everything here not sponsored by the tourism. No, but it's it's it's thanks, Carol, for chatting about that. Actually, your comments and some of the. Some of the mystery there in the air kind of really helped me kind of think think more about I was
00:49:14
Speaker
I was enchanted, right? The land of enchantment? Carol, I was enchanted. Yeah, tell me about it. What enchants me? That's the deeper question than when I'm on the other end of the question. Why does that enchant? There's something rather than nothing there. There is. There is, right?
00:49:38
Speaker
Carol, where do you as an artist and you make in your things, where do where do folks like find your art? How do you how do you share your art, that type of thing? I mean, I can only handle one social media platform. So that's Instagram. So if you want to check out any of the stuff and just kind of like unhinged bullshit that goes on from my day to day, it's at Drunk Mother Dancing.
00:50:03
Speaker
Is that a particular style that's accompanied by videos as well? Or is it just an aesthetic? In regards to what do you mean? The dancing. The dancing. The dancing. Oh, you know what? My mom, there was this funny thing. We were watching Thelma and Louise one time. And there's a thing that, what's her name? Is it Julia Davis? No. Who am I thinking of? She was in League of your own.
00:50:29
Speaker
Oh, Gina Davis. Gina Davis. She's like imbibing, and she's at that little Western bar, and she claps her hands. She's like, this is a good band. And I was like, oh my god. I was like, what time my mom looks when she's drinking, and it's just so funny to me to just think of the imagery of what comes to mind when you say drunk mother dancing, because everybody knows what the fuck you're talking about.
00:50:51
Speaker
It's like, mother's getting a little too loose tonight. A little bit extra loud, a little extra loud early on, too. Yeah, it's a little like, out of step clapping. I don't know. It's a very particular, I'm talking about my mom, but a lot of people see their moms in my mom, so. Oh. Well, and then the Tia's and the Auntie's come out, and they get the arm stretch. Come join me in my meat bling out here. It's a brick house. So.
00:51:21
Speaker
Thank you so much for your art, Carol. And, hey, Sarah, tell listeners again, if they didn't catch your first episode, the SRD episode, which would have been released by the time of this one, where to find your stuff again, Sarah. Oh, yeah. I'm also on Instagram. Sarah Rodial. I also have a website, sarahromanodial.com. So that's where my stuff is.
00:51:53
Speaker
Yeah. Just very talented folks. Check it out. Thank you. That's so sweet. But I, yeah, I really look up to you both. I am so grateful to be talking to you both. It's like, man, such an honor.
00:52:08
Speaker
I know, thank you. This definitely got me out of my head. Jesus. Yeah, thanks. Thanks, Carol, too. I mean, I don't know, I get I get really, really attached to the pieces of how this comes about, because this is one of the main things that I do creatively. But I think, like,
00:52:25
Speaker
Um, talking about art, like more fully in the fact that Sarah and I, you know, met each other at the comic thing over in Portland, you know, and she was down from like Seattle and I'm a little bit south of Portland, then like meeting there next to another, um, guest that I've had on the show to Edward Bach. And then, uh, Sarah and I doing an episode and I'm like,
00:52:47
Speaker
there's people like I run into and connect with and I'm like, what the fuck? Like what gets you like excited about art? Like who, who do you want to talk to? And you know, then we're led here and like to Albuquerque, like that's the piece like for me and like the doing, like, I like the fact that I ended up like in Albuquerque somewhere and like in my own head, I understand part of my experience.
00:53:12
Speaker
like better just as like a weird thing that happens with this and uh the ability to talk with great artists about art it's just like i i just i spend enough time on that and be like that's fucking cool like yeah this is cool to do hell yeah no that's awesome dude i love hearing that and just mark your customer experience well after this carol and we're you know we're good
00:53:36
Speaker
you know, your customer experience form and hopefully it went well for you. Any final comments or a weird movie or weird song to listen to, Carol, or you just want to leave this where it's at? Oh, God, who did I get into? Anything. We were
00:54:04
Speaker
Dude, who were... I go in and out with like classic country. Yeah. And I know that that's like a really safe shout for a lot of people. What the hell is this lady saying? I think it was Dottie West. Okay. And just, you know, there's a fucking country song for everything. But yeah, Dottie West, less than I'm leaving. There's also, I know everybody's been into this, but that that jungle
00:54:29
Speaker
that music video where they're talking, where they have like that really like beautifully choreographed dance number. That was like a very much a little sinkhole that I got into. And then just, yeah, if you're fucking depressed, dude, watch some Norm Macdonald stand up. I definitely remember. Yeah. He's mixed together with Conan O'Brien. I mean, you're probably still going to be depressed, but you're going to laugh a little bit.
00:54:51
Speaker
I thank you for everything, including the Moore McDonald clip there, Carol. We help each other in so many ways. The great content exchange. Yes, the band. I'm going to have to dig in there. Yes, the band, Sarah.
00:55:15
Speaker
anything super uh super weird super freaky or or movie uh type of thing for listeners your privileged point here just to throw out something goofy
00:55:25
Speaker
Well, not really. I watched The Last Unicorn again recently. That has sinister undertones to it. Something about that genre of cartooning. I'm always like, shit was not kosher when they were making those things. I don't know. It's still like very stimulating to watch though, yeah. Yeah, it is.
00:55:47
Speaker
Yeah, the Red Bull. Oh, I feel like that that movie is like everything right now, you know, the unicorn is the keeper of the health of the earth and everything. Is that true?
00:56:02
Speaker
Yeah, in the movie at least. Yeah. I don't know. I'm asking what's true about unicorns. I'm asking you to like, verify what's true about unicorns. It's absolutely true. That's all the answer I want. So that's what I'll keep talking about. Um, I have one, one, one thing that I've tripped out on besides Carol
00:56:28
Speaker
Dropping me into the Norm McDonald stuff, but the um is uh, I've had on as a guest Sissy Eframson who's a puppeteer artist and is in musical band, which is a princess pop punk band from Sweden and
00:56:47
Speaker
She does the stop motion animation with puppets and stuff like that. And she does the videos with the stop motion for this band called Viagra Boys, which I dropped into, which is this wild Swedish band with an American singer.
00:57:06
Speaker
But what I gotta tell you is check out these videos done by sissy for Viagra boys and She is absolutely amazing. She was in high fructose magazine as well. So that's the thing I've been tripping out. So um, I
00:57:24
Speaker
But this is about you, Carol. We're talking about all this wild art. It's so exciting to have you on the show from from Idaho, which is a tense political state being as diplomatic as I can be. But let's that's for another time. We're talking about fun things and Norm McDonald. We're going to we're going to we're going to head out now. Thank you, Sarah Romano.
00:57:50
Speaker
co-host um a great pleasure yeah super fun to chat with you and uh carol um thanks for spending time on the show and just kind of you know thank you so that you can this is i've been wanting to talk to you forever so such a cool opportunity i feel like this is a coherent free for all and we'll end it like that right thanks
00:58:23
Speaker
This is something rather than nothing.
00:58:53
Speaker
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00:59:21
Speaker
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