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The Journal
110 Plays3 months ago
Join Shelly and Michael as we talk with Liz about her root: a journal. We also discuss a vampire lesbian, Abraham Lincoln, and a ballerina temptress. (ALSO. We promise Shelly's audio will be better in the future.)
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Transcript
Inception of 'Your Words Are Showing'
00:00:57
Speaker
Welcome to Your Words Are Showing, the podcast where we talk about being unapologetically clear and all the things that got us to where we are.
00:01:11
Speaker
Yeah, i love the concept for this podcast. I'm going to give a little bit of a history. I know we talked about not doing this until later on in the season. Shelly and i got to hang out a while back and we were there with Shelly's wife Shelly's sister-in-law and they loved listening to us talk to each other so much.
00:01:32
Speaker
They were like, you guys should have your own podcast. And we we're like, you know what? We're going to do it. Yeah, let's do it. So I am unapologetically queer, as Shelley said. apologies. No apologies. Not even about all of my 20s.
00:01:50
Speaker
Sorry, Rain. Does Rain still exist in Wichita, Kansas? okay Yes, duh. Okay, so i there's a lot of things I should apologize for in Rain. There's a lot of things I should apologize for in Fantasy. Was a Fantasy Complex?
00:02:02
Speaker
Yes, it was Fantasy Yes, okay. So there's a lot of things I could apologize about. but I won't. um I am happily partnered with my guy, Ryan. We've been together 10 years.
00:02:15
Speaker
Shelley, we're coming up on 10 years actually in April. We are gonna go to San Diego, not San Diego, Palm Springs, where all gay men go to die. So we're gonna pick out a plot.
00:02:29
Speaker
or get a We're gonna pick out a plot. We're gonna pick out where our rainbow flag is gonna fly. um Yeah, and ah Ryan has two daughters.
Hosts' Personal Insights and Podcast Genesis
00:02:40
Speaker
um We both work and live in Denver, Colorado.
00:02:44
Speaker
um so it's really cool to hang with you and Liz virtually. I wish we could be in the same room one day. Maybe we'll be in a natural studio. o And this is. And we won't have any audio visual problems. Not even a single one. We'll have other humans who who take care of that for us.
00:03:05
Speaker
god one that's one dream far down the pipe. Yeah. So dear listener, it took us about 45 minutes to get to you today. um But we do so happily. We're happy. there was a really fun road trip.
00:03:19
Speaker
Yeah. I don't know if I would call it really fun, but I learned something and I didn't break anything in anger. So this is a big big win for me.
00:03:30
Speaker
All right. Yeah. So yeah I'm Shelly. I'm also one of the co-hosts. Your Roots Are Showing has been marinating my brain for many, many years. And it wasn't until I was hanging out with Michael in November that it really clicked.
Introduction to Guest: Liz Skryver
00:03:50
Speaker
And Michael was like, when are we recording? Yeah. So ah Michael and I got together. probably for the last two months-ish, kind of just bringing things out. And this is what we've come up with. We've got our first guest, uh,
00:04:08
Speaker
this time around and this time around it's Liz Skryver. Yay. So your roots showing a podcast where we're just going to do a q and ask Liz, what is your root?
00:04:30
Speaker
And for those of you who aren't in the queer community, i I feel like root is a word or a term that queer folks bandy about anytime they're in group together.
00:04:46
Speaker
Yeah, insert all the dick jokes too with that real quick. Yeah, all the great jokes. All the root jokes. All of them. And it always comes up like, oh, what's your root? Yeah. The men's underwear aisle at Kmart, obviously.
00:05:02
Speaker
Duh. Hot. Yeah, that is very hot. Tidy whitey pictures. Sign me up. Liz, we would love it if you would introduce yourself.
00:05:14
Speaker
introduce yourself with anything that you think we know, including how you know us, what you do, your pronouns, all the things, and then we'll get into your root.
00:05:31
Speaker
I'm so excited to explore my root with you guys. Thanks for having me on. my name is Liz Skriver. I'm a lowly ICU nurse here at the fine medical establishment that is run by the McDonald's of medicine, as the founders called it, HCA Healthcare. care You can find any number of ERs worldwide that service McDonald's. Coming to an ER near you.
00:05:56
Speaker
Yeah, really. yeah They're going to take it over in make it better. ah So yeah, I work in hospital. But really, I don't do a whole lot of work because I only have to work three days a week, which is why I went into nursing. It has nothing to do with caring for people. um And i ah like to do art outside of um
Liz's Early Experiences with Queerness
00:06:20
Speaker
my job. I like to take care of my garden. I like to take care of things even when I'm outside the hospital, just not people all the time.
00:06:29
Speaker
And then nice you guys asked me if I, you know, if I have some words to describe myself. um Yeah. And ah yeah, basically I think that um what I've always written there is like just never odd nor even. And that's, that's pretty standard for me.
00:06:46
Speaker
Okay. Never odd nor even. Even or even. Never odd nor even. Yeah. But but mostly that has to do with oppositional defiance. Yeah. Defiance. Like that's, that's queerness. to Yeah. Oppositional defiance.
00:07:02
Speaker
I love that. as an educator, I feel that to my core. Yeah. Liz, where are you from? I'm from Marshalltown, Iowa. It's a bustling metropolis with 27,000 people.
00:07:17
Speaker
We boast an international meatpacking plant. hu did We grew up in the same town. i grew up in a town of like 25,000 people. of has national beef.
00:07:30
Speaker
Yeah, yeah have we have pork. Yeah, we have pork because it's Is it Seaboard Farms? No, it's... Don't get me near Liz's pork plant because I would explode. No, it's disgusting. It makes the entire... Oh, did you grow up with... Smells like money. Smells like money, though. Oh, yeah, that was lot.
00:07:54
Speaker
That was said so much so much around that. Yeah. um Okay. So before we did this whole thing, Michael and I put together a little questionnaire for Liz and she filled it out.
00:08:08
Speaker
And we asked Liz to create kind of an extended metaphor about where she first came. don't know, was kind of aware of her queerness.
00:08:22
Speaker
And the thing that you pointed out was for us, Liz, was your journal. Do you want to tell us a little bit about your journal? Is that a column in my journal?
00:08:34
Speaker
Here we go. Yeah, so you're going to hear my dog beautifully barking in the background for us. She's singing. That's the song of her people, Liz. Yeah, it's fine. That's culturally inappropriate. I should more caring. Does song shame that dog?
00:08:49
Speaker
yeah Yeah. yeah Did I mention that I used to live in a town with a meatpacking plant and I'm thinking about sending my dog over. No, i know you're not. Stop it.
00:09:04
Speaker
Bork burgers. little hot dog. I just want you to know I closed the door to my house, like to the room that I'm in and Mallory is gone. Mallory, my wife, she's gone right now and Matilda and Roberta Have the run of the house. I don't know what going to when I'm here. Wow.
00:09:29
Speaker
You're going to find the tin the the ashes of the rest of your house and only your room untouched. Yeah. That's cool. Yeah. Ready for that. um So tell us about your journal. but Yeah. So we're supposed to be talking about a journal. ah So honestly, I wrote about my journal because I think that for me, at least the the like yearning and unrequited love is at the center of queerness for me um or like my early queerness.
00:09:59
Speaker
especially growing up in in the heartland. um you know we We didn't have a whole lot of... um I don't know. like it like Not a whole lot of people looked like me if they were queer. you know The whole butt-on-the-chair-leader thing trope was a whole thing. and ah yeah like ah yeah I could count all the Democrats in town on one hand. That guy's a Democrat over there. Did you know that? Yeah. How old were you when you saw but I'm a cheerleader.
00:10:31
Speaker
Oh, not until much later. 18 years old. No, 19 years old. And I saw it at Phil's house in college. My, my queer friend, Phil, who really came out for me. And he lived.
00:10:45
Speaker
Yeah. You're gay. are you're gay Let's talk. Okay. You're gay. Cause I got a hot girl named Larissa that you need a date. I was like, okay. yes Yeah. Yeah. Larissa. Did you connect with Larissa? Was that your
Cultural Influences on Queerness
00:10:58
Speaker
first girlfriend? Larissa?
00:11:00
Speaker
Yeah, and she was a vampire lesbian though. She was hot. What is that? What is vampire lesbian? Please explain. My mind is going into the most inappropriate dark corners of the world. Yeah, ahead. want to hear about it. No, you don't. Go tell me about this vampire. What does that mean? Larissa had a fake or potentially real, it's not been corroborated,
00:11:27
Speaker
sense um vial of blood that she would wear wear around her neck got some have U-Hauls some have blood yeah yeah there Angelina Jolie queers No, that was exactly. That was, it was supposed to be blood of Angelina Jolie.
00:11:42
Speaker
Shut up. No, swear to fucking, excuse my French. I don't know if I can say that. No, you can totally fucking. Yeah. Yeah. And, um, I thought you were going to she's like, she's an artist. It's menstrual blood. It's like a period piece. I don't know. That's a hippie lesbian.
00:12:00
Speaker
Oh, okay. Different. yeah Totally different. and sour Yeah. She's not making sourdough out of her vaginal flora. She's fucking harvesting blood. Okay. Fair. Okay.
00:12:11
Speaker
Okay. So you had a vampire girlfriend introduced to you by Phil who helped you come out. And, Thought I'm a Cheerleader was, I think potentially the first queer movie that I ever watched, but I watched it in a bunch of people who were queer and I was so like, oh am I supposed to be here? That I didn't even laugh appropriately and I didn't the first time because i was just like, ah. You're like, what? I don't know if girls, it happens to ladies, but like, that's like a pill pillow on the lap situation for like a guy. Yeah. I think it's a lot of yeah crossing and uncrossing my legs. Okay, yeah. Okay. And that kind of pillow situation.
00:12:53
Speaker
And your eyes are just uncomfortably glued to the screen the whole time. you're like, no, I can't move. I'm not looking around at all. That's perfect. That's perfect. So you grew up in Marshalltown.
00:13:06
Speaker
ah You had your little journal where you started. Your diary. Yeah. talking to yourself about your clients or like what are the words that you wrote down that like clicked for you okay well so number one growing up in the heartland christianity is a a large part of the culture here i didn't know if you guys knew that but um Yeah, so I definitely, like, the only thing that I ever tore out of my journal for fear of being found was literally, like, three things that i
Liz's Upbringing and Educational Journey
00:13:38
Speaker
asked God, which were, like, please don't make me queer. oh yeah. ah or Well, I didn't say queer at that time. I said gay. um And then I would hide my journal in the underbed, you know, like, underbed same spot where I would hide my Victoria's Secret catalog. Yes.
00:13:56
Speaker
Yeah.
00:13:59
Speaker
So I think that was maybe God telling me, you're okay. Yeah, there are angels involved. Okay, it's fine. Exactly. There are angels involved. It's okay. And they're sexy angels, babe. I love sexy angels.
00:14:20
Speaker
They're bedazzled angels. Yeah, I mean, Michael is ah was an angel. I'm named after an angel baby. Baby, not an actual baby. We have to be careful with baby, this Epstein stuff, you guys. Okay, stop. I don't want to talk about that at all. Let's not mar the beauty Liz's coming out journey. Will never.
00:14:41
Speaker
my God, love that it was Victoria's Secret. Yeah. Oh, not a coming out. This is you writing it down. This is your writing down. Oh, yeah, yeah, this is your... Where you did this journal, um i don't know if you had like a parent who like cleaned your room or a person who was a sibling um or whatever. I kind of felt like...
00:15:02
Speaker
you know there's all I had a brother who's very close to me who actually probably saw that I was gay before I knew I was gay and was always kind of like, you need to do this thing. i Come out like, you dude, you're gay. um yeah Did anybody find the journal? No. Was there ever a moment? Do you still have it?
00:15:18
Speaker
Of course, they have all my journals. And I continue to like you know like journal even to the bit ah to this day. yeah And yeah, so basically I was writing to God and I was also writing about my unrequited love for my teacher. Yeah.
00:15:34
Speaker
What kind teacher? A high school teacher. We're not going to really go too much further than that. Yeah, you'll ask her their name. She was a lady in her 30s. And I took classes with her every single year. did she wear blouses?
00:15:51
Speaker
Yeah. I love the word blouse. And she she walked like a true lesbian walk. She wasn't a lesbian, but she you know like when you got high-waisted pants, you can put your you You can put your hands in the pockets and kind of saunter.
00:16:06
Speaker
Yeah. and Did she have a ring of keys also? didn't. But she should have. Yeah. ah For those of you who don't know, Michael's making a reference to Fun Home fun home by Alison Bechtel. Yes. um And Ring of Keys.
00:16:25
Speaker
is a reference to a FedEx UPS delivery person who has a large ring of keys and is a root moment for the protagonist of that comic.
00:16:38
Speaker
Yes. Yay. And such a beautiful song because it later became a musical and that song. P.S. Queer, not queer, intermusicals, not intermusicals. It is the best shower song.
00:16:53
Speaker
I'm just going to put that out there. Yeah, that's quite a statement. Better than Chuck Rowan. Better than any Disney ballad. Really? IMO, in my opinion.
00:17:05
Speaker
It has the word swagger in it. so Interesting. I'm going to have to check this out. i'm I am diametrically opposed to... um fun home for no good reason except the aforementioned oppositional defiance. ah right Which, yeah.
00:17:20
Speaker
I was go ahead. okay no no i was go ahead No, every best friend of mine is like, no, this is like the greatest thing ever. And like the dykes to watch out for was like a huge thing when I was in
Personal Transformation and Family Reactions
00:17:33
Speaker
university. But I think that's why I'm like, nah, nah, I'm cooler than that. But, you know, I think that this is kind of maybe a universal route or in a universal origin part of that origin story is like, you know what, I'm not like you And kind of feel like I even like whenever I came out, people were like, oh, you're gay. well i' mean Well, I'm not gay how you define gay. And, you know, are they like it was just always kind of finding the edge of my otherness.
00:18:03
Speaker
And maybe I think that like, can you speak to like maybe the discovery of your otherness or the the moment it it was it as a child or familial culture, just that moment?
00:18:16
Speaker
a moment you don't have to go into time like we have the know your journal is here and then whoa what what i'm different sure so um basically i was writing about this in my journal i was pretty sure that i had unrequited love for this woman and i also had noticed that I was checking out ladies' asses, and I was like, at first was like, whatever, whatever, i just want an ass like theirs. You know, i'm a skinny bitch. Like, maybe I just want an ass like theirs. But then it became pretty clear to me that I was like, no, I'm not just admiring them. um
00:18:51
Speaker
I want to get with them. And ah because I read as pretty femme in the world, I think I had a little bit different experience where i had good friends who were queer males who read as, ah like, the typical, like,
00:19:07
Speaker
gay male that is bullied in high school and they had to kind of fight for their queerness and here was just like white skinny girl that was like yeah no I think I'm queer and they just looked at me and they were like no you're not um so I think I did kind of like the opposite where I was like no I'm gonna fucking prove my queerness and then I tried you know like I did the did the, I chopped my hair off and got like a nose ring for a while. So, yeah. So that was like a moment of like, okay, normally I'm family. What was your family response to this? Like very physical change in you, uh, their skinny rich daughter who was there. Um,
00:19:53
Speaker
Honestly, when I was like nine, I had chopped my hair off as well, and then just let it grow back out and kind of become more femme. So I'd kind of been like messing with that, you know, like hair, like short hair didn't necessarily but yeah, I don't think my family loved the change. Also, somehow they didn't notice it too much. I don't know. Um,
00:20:13
Speaker
My dad was legitimately can like, like how how could I have had no idea about this, Lizzie? My family, totally opposite situation.
00:20:26
Speaker
My mother has literally been cataloged as saying... A woman's hair is her crowning with glory glory. Yeah. Yeah. woman's hair is her crowning glory.
00:20:39
Speaker
And every time I go and cut my hair off and then grow it very long and then cut it off, my mom is constantly lamenting the fact that like I've done something to like the core of my personhood.
00:20:58
Speaker
Like, Shelly, are you okay? Are you What's going on? Why did you cut your hair? I think, well, and my mom's hair is really short. She kind of looks like Hillary Clinton.
00:21:09
Speaker
um and like Yeah. not yeah not Lock her up. Let's go. Yeah. So, yeah. um she got I mean, like there is like this thing where like good Christian women... i went ah So, I moved to Wichita six years ago from the East Coast.
00:21:26
Speaker
because I'd been living away from the Midwest for a long time. And it was really surprising to me because out on the East Coast, if somebody has like, you know, ah an asymmetrical haircut, they're definitely queer. Like they're really, you know, the gender norms are like, definitely if you have shorter hair and it's asymmetrical in any way. And then um you move back to the the Midwest where Christianity is so much more part of the culture in like an everyday kind of out loud sense. And the people who have asymmetrical haircuts are people like my mom.
00:21:59
Speaker
They have red glasses and they wear like big scarves. And you're just like, okay. Okay. ah So, yeah, so, like, to to them, I'm not sure. Maybe the nose piercing was, like, maybe a little bit of a sign of rebellion and and drug use. But, ah yeah, but not queerness, probably.
00:22:24
Speaker
So if we can back up just a little bit. So we have... The journal journaling, finding this out, finding this what this space is outlet for yourself. You go to college, you meet this guy, you meet this vampire.
00:22:41
Speaker
um I know that you also there was a stop between that and Kansas that was overseas. Oh, yeah. um So then, what as I was graduating college, I visited...
00:22:56
Speaker
ah Nonsense. It's in... Yeah, nonsense. It's in anthropology in Spanish, which is unemployable, which is why I'm an ICU nurse now. Sí, verdad. Es muy importante.
00:23:09
Speaker
sí.
00:23:18
Speaker
Spanish, which I love. She's like, I'm working on my Spanish. Yeah. What took you to Argentina? What was that like? then how maybe the getting there or being there shape your like queer identity?
00:23:36
Speaker
Sure. So I U-hauled to Argentina, and it
Reflections on Relationships and Identity
00:23:40
Speaker
was the same week that the senator also disappeared from the quote-unquote Appalachian Trail, like in 2009.
00:23:48
Speaker
so So Liz didn't work for U-Haul, the organization. Yeah, no, correct. U-Haul? Can tell us about U-Hauling? there a G on the end of it? I don't know. i'm from Is it U-Hauling?
00:24:01
Speaker
No, it's you hauling. It's hauling. Excuse me. We don't drop our Gs. Just because we're lesbians, we don't drop our Gs. Drop that G. I'm not that kind of lesbian.
00:24:13
Speaker
Yeah, girl. So yeah, no, I packaged myself and up in a box and then I got a big, no, I met this girl on spring break because I was I was going to see my other lesbian friend who ah didn didn't think she was my friend at the time. And I broke her heart by falling in love with her best friend on spring break.
00:24:42
Speaker
Oh, what a lesbian story. and hey And then I continued to talk to my girlfriend, my Argentine girlfriend, for three months. And then I was like, okay, fuck it. I don't have any plans. The 2008 crisis has just happened and I've received a degree in anthropology and Spanish. I have nothing to give to the world. So I'm going to move to Argentina. And The decision there was made over a cigarette on a whim with a grad student that was very mean named Marta, and she was from Barcelona.
00:25:23
Speaker
And she was very much cooler than I am and will ever be. And she was like an older lesbian. And she just looked at me because I had was like, oh, maybe I'm, I don't know what to do.
00:25:35
Speaker
puff. Maybe I'm just going to, you know, go do like a program down there. And she just looked at me and she was like, you Americans, you always have to pay for programs. Why don't you just go, so you know, why don't you just go teach English? And I was like, okay, yeah, fuck you, Martha. I'm gonna. Martha.
00:25:52
Speaker
Yeah, Martha. i'm go You showed her. Yeah, so I did. You did. You showed her. You taught English in Argentina. And what else did you do there?
00:26:04
Speaker
ah i So they also have Universal. Other than like Crush Ladies Hearts. sorry Crush Ladies Hearts. No, I was with one lady there. Just one lady the entire time.
00:26:15
Speaker
I know. And yeah. So then and um yeah ah so then uh went to school at uh la universidad de buenos aires which is like a public school in buenos aires that um you have to pay a very minimal like 400 dollar uh fee to matriculate in and i was trying to go yeah because
Quiz on Historical Queer Figures and Moments
00:26:40
Speaker
it's a public university and honestly you don't have to pay anything if you're from um argentina or you at that time there was a merco sur was like a
00:26:50
Speaker
alliance between a lot of South American countries. So everybody from like Brazil would come and study there for free. As a gringa, I had to pay, which is fair. um And, but it was a nominal fee. And it was the only way that I could kind of justify getting, like continuing on in Spanish literature at the time, because like I knew at the time it wasn't employable. And so i was like, fine, going to have fun studying this.
00:27:16
Speaker
So I studied Spanish literature and then I also worked in a piano shop, Schultes Pianos, which was yeah which was really fun and learned how to tune and theoretically tune. Still can't really tune, but I can regulate your piano if you need it.
00:27:31
Speaker
so How long were you there? Three years, yeah. From 2009 to 2012. Same relationship, same... same relationship same was it Was it the longest relationship you've been in up to that point? Yeah, yeah, for sure, for sure. She was like my first love. And, you know, I moved back to the U.S. and she was getting an engineering degree and we continued talking even we were here and she was going to come back and like live here with me. And at that time, like our biggest worry was –
00:28:03
Speaker
gay marriage wasn't passed in the U.S. and it had passed in Argentina so I could get a visa there if I needed but like she wasn't going to be able to come here technically and yeah so we were just trying to work around that and yeah we just ended up splitting maybe maybe three months after moved this would have been in like 2011, 2012? 2012, yeah. and when you moved back to the U.S. s where did you move to?
00:28:31
Speaker
I moved to Chicago. Chicago. So yeah did you ever, so as like a young person or the queer landscape, did you see yourself like, oh, I'm going to get married one day?
00:28:44
Speaker
like oh yeah, for sure. So, okay. So he's like, for me, I would, I never like thought that was like possible. So I was just like a serial dater um until I wasn't, but okay. And you're married now.
00:28:58
Speaker
I am married now. Okay, cool. No, so no, yeah. No children, but yeah, married now. um And we've been together for 12, 11 or 12 years. Wow. That's awesome.
00:29:15
Speaker
Yeah. Okay. Liz, so you told us that your first little inklings went in your journal. yeah And so as a celebration of that journal,
00:29:29
Speaker
situation, Michael's put together a little game. He's going to have you play. I have, I can't make how do I make you see? I put together this beautiful Canva. I thought was going share my screen. guys.
00:29:47
Speaker
The name of the game for you, I'm calling it PS history was a little bit clear. Okay. Yeah. Okay. Exciting. um This is also the moment where we need a game show song to come so this is what I've got for now. It's going to be our little placeholder. Are you ready? I love it. yeah Are you ready? Here we go. It sounds like it's time to play the game. Yes.
00:30:17
Speaker
So in honor of your extended metaphor, here are four multiple choice questions about queer letters in history. Are you ready? Yeah. Which US president was affectionately and sassily called Aunt Nancy by contemporaries because of his relationship with another man? Was it A, Abraham Lincoln?
00:30:39
Speaker
B, James Buchanan? C, Andrew Jackson? D. Ulysses S. Grant. um Abraham Lincoln.
00:30:51
Speaker
The answer... That's incorrect. I'm sorry. It's a badum tish. <unk> That's what I've got. My butt's name is badum tish. um Okay, here we go It's James Buchanan.
00:31:05
Speaker
What? James Buchanan. Who is that guy even? We don't know anything about him except the... He was terrible, sadly. Like he may have been the first gay president, but he wasn't all that great. um because Yeah, he lived with another man for like 12 years. what And his partner was called Aunt Fancy.
00:31:23
Speaker
What? Yes, Rufus King. William Rufus King was a senator that James Buchanan lived with for like 12 years. um Yeah, I know.
00:31:35
Speaker
Wait, was it while he was in the White House or did he have a wife as well? No, his niece was kind of his beard while he was in the White House. Like she played all the role the First Lady. He also spent some, he hosted 18 year old Prince Albert for a week or so. Prince Albert as in Victoria's husband?
00:31:58
Speaker
Yes. As in, yeah. they Well, James Buchanan is the only president who was never married. Never married. In the White House. The bachelor president. It sounds like this is early Epstein files. Bullshit.
00:32:11
Speaker
I thought we said we weren't going to talk about that. Yeah. Yeah. yeah We did make that statement. Okay. Second question. Okay. Which poet wrote letters so emotionally intense that modern readers regularly say to themselves, that ain't straight, that ain't straight.
00:32:31
Speaker
Is it A, Emily Dickinson, B, Walt Whitman, C, Lord Byron, or D, all of the above? D, all of the above. That is correct. Instant sound effect.
00:32:47
Speaker
Love it. um All right. So Abraham Lincoln once wrote letters to another man that included language around longing to be together, sharing beds, and emotional vulnerability.
00:33:02
Speaker
Who was that recipient? Was it A, his wife, Mary Todd Lincoln, who he we call Hot Toddy now. Oh, that's a great name. b Joshua Speed.
00:33:16
Speaker
C, his campaign manager, or D, a
Creative Expression and Queer Identity Exploration
00:33:19
Speaker
ghost that haunted the White House? It's either B or C, and I don't know, so I'm going to go with Joshua Speed because he's got a great name. Joshua, oh Joshua, it was Joshua. yeah He met Joshua and spent like steamy couple weeks together or days together in this cabin. um And that's where we get the term log cabin Republicans from. hu
00:33:50
Speaker
and Somebody fact check me. I completely just made that up on the spot. I wish that was a true statement, Michael. I'm going to start campaigning that that is a true statement. You know those memes when it's like, I'm going to my kids that this was one direction. going to say, I'm going to tell my kids, this is a log cabin Republican. And it's just going to have pictures of James Speedo.
00:34:18
Speaker
I'm sorry, James Speed. James Speedo, hell yeah. James Speedo. I'm telling you, in his tiny little whiteys. There's so many jokes here. We've got Prince Albert. We've got Lincoln Logs. We've got, I mean, this is a recipe for hilarity, but I will move on.
00:34:38
Speaker
No, also think we should brand James Speedo because I think that the left is ready for some nice American branding. Yeah. And I think we should make Speedos that have American flags on them that are called James Speedos. Take American flag. Start with the gay man's ass. Yes.
00:34:57
Speaker
Yes. Right across it. I'm into that. like men to that one of those big top hats that Abraham Lincoln wore yeah just on the little side. yeah Yeah. You could have a top hat one. You could have an American flag one. You could have it a log cabin speedo. I mean, like there's an entire. And I feel like this could also be some really good ground for like a much lingerie for a log cabin speedo.
00:35:26
Speaker
Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. yeah yeah listeners Shelly just gave us air quotes around log cabin. Can you expand on on those air quotes?
00:35:37
Speaker
I'm just thinking of those pieces of male skimpy underpants that have like an elephant trunk in them. Right. Yeah. You know what I'm talking about, Michael.
00:35:48
Speaker
Yeah. Honestly, don't think that Shelly can expand the log cabin any further. I think the log cabin. Yeah, I think at that point it would be like penis gate in the Olympics.
00:36:01
Speaker
Yeah. Oh, I forgot about that. What a beautiful. Girl, that was a week ago. Oh, no, I thought it I was thinking the pole vaulter. Yeah, the pole vaulter. Do you guys not know about penis skate? Penis skate 2026? No. 2026 Olympics. Did you find out from deep throw?
00:36:18
Speaker
No. So, you know the big air guys, the ones that go down the big G, jump... jump... long jump, long jump. The long jump, right? Yeah.
00:36:30
Speaker
no well Long jump on skis. Yeah. Long jump on skis. Okay. yeah So when they are training, they have to get their suit very purposely fitted to them.
00:36:44
Speaker
And what they will do is they will inject their penises with hyaluronic acid to make the birth bigger.
00:36:56
Speaker
um So that their suit is fitted around a bigger member. Then, when it's time for them to actually fly up their skis, their penis is not as large. And that extra flap of fabric gives them lift.
00:37:16
Speaker
like a little square That's amazing. Isn't that bonkers? A little ah little squirrel penis suit. Yeah, a little extra squirrel penis suit. I'm going to call it a squirrel scrub. It's a squirrel scrub moment. Yeah, that's good. Where they just hold out both sides to fly more. Yeah.
00:37:34
Speaker
I don't know why they hyaluronic acid in it. I didn't know that. That sounds, when you say the word acid and penis in the same sentence, I want to curl up in a ball and cry. No, no, no.
00:37:44
Speaker
No, hyaluronic think it's hyaluronic. Yeah, yeah. It's the protein that gives your your skin turgor. Like all of the students, if you go to a Sephora, you're going to see hyaluronic acid in all of their products.
00:37:59
Speaker
And I have, yeah. and i Is my turgor showing right now? Yeah, your tur you're turg it. You have absolutely amazing skin turg it. Oh my God. Yeah. No, I just turg it up. Okay. Sorry. I have one more question. Sorry. We're raining it in little bit here.
00:38:16
Speaker
sorry i have one more question we have get i to it sorry yeah sorry we're raining it in a little bit here um I also, this hits on a a theme unintentionally that you brought up with your journal writing. Which famer writer defended the love that dare not speak its name, quote unquote, in a letter that later became iconic for queer shorthand? Was it Virginia Woolf, Oscar Wilde, James baldden Baldwin, or E.M. m Forster?
00:38:55
Speaker
Oscar Wilde? It is Oscar Wilde. Insert correct answer sound.
00:39:02
Speaker
Well, Liz, you got three out of four, correct? Three out of four. I'm feeling pretty good. I'm an elder gay. Thank you. but That's perfect.
00:39:14
Speaker
That's perfect. Well, thank you for doing that. Can we just go back? Yeah. Can we go back to turgor for just one moment? Yes. I love a good turgor moment. Yeah. So I just, I just want to say that have heard of infusing, um, saline into like the, the scrotum, um, in order to enlarge, uh, and, and that I know is, is like relatively like, that is a kink out there, right? I've thought about doing this as a nurse. I'm like, yeah, I'll fucking infuse your scrotum. don't care. Is there anything equal in the lesbian world to some of the mishegas that is gay men fetishes? Like you were talking about.
00:39:57
Speaker
Did we not talk early about ah lesbian vampirism? Like, like act yeah yeah. Literally. fle yeah Do you know that when I was a young woman, i was obsessed with vampires. I did not wear blood around my neck, but I did...
00:40:13
Speaker
wear like a red ribbon around my neck when I went to bed every night. You are lying. Yeah, it was who was like, i was just hoping a vampire would come in the window.
00:40:28
Speaker
Female or Yes, my bedroom was in the basement. um And just make me one of his own or her own. I don't care. Their own. just Their own.
00:40:39
Speaker
Yeah, I really wanted to be vampire. really did. I didn't know anything about them until Larissa introduced me to them. God, what a great name for vampire lesbian as well. mean she was Yeah, she had a very, very like white skin tone and very dark hair and eyes. I mean, she was a it yeah she was a lesbian vampire.
00:41:03
Speaker
She's hot. That's hot. So Liz, you started in the Middle West You ended up in Argentina. You flew back to Chicago. yeah And during all of this time, you were playing piano. You were also dancing. I know this about you. um Let's define dancing real quick.
00:41:30
Speaker
I was it shaking that ass. like Like, were you like a ballroom dancer? No, and I never got into time. No, I was. yeah was Tina tia tia Turner. Yeah, Tina Turner. No, that's only not for pay and only for people who ask me to. um why ah No, I was a ballet dancer. Yeah.
00:41:55
Speaker
Oh, wow. i I went to Friends University, which has like an amazing ballet program. Impressive. That's awesome. And also there's like a little bit of like kind of a queer lesbian leaning nature around ballet. thinking Black Swan.
00:42:16
Speaker
Okay. I'm thinking ah ah Benjamin Button. Where is it Uma Thurman who has like kind of a lesbian moment? in that movie as well.
00:42:27
Speaker
did So as a ballet dancer, was there, is that a part of like, talk to, like, I'm i'm sorry, I totally interrupted you, Shelley, but and I'm just so curious about like that dive or that time, because you're just like surrounded by the female form, you're surrounded by these this beauty. Yeah.
00:42:51
Speaker
I mean, that pillow on a lap. Yeah, it's pretty sexy. Yeah. Yeah, no. Okay, so it all goes back to vampires, which is funny. So I actually, quit ballet when I was probably like 14 or 15. And then I picked it back up.
Journey Back to Ballet and Self-Exploration
00:43:07
Speaker
in university because phil the aforementioned phil was a ballerine and please i hope you're gonna send phil a letter like a thank you letter after this whole thing i'll help you make one oh no the craziest thing is phil and i reconnected maybe three years ago by just passing each other on the street in chicago and i just heard my name and i was like oh hi babe and then yeah we we see each other all the time when i go back to chicago so yeah phil's Okay, sorry for interrupting.
00:43:38
Speaker
Go back. Phil got you into dancing? Yeah, it got me kind of back into dancing. ah He was like studying ballet and I thought, okay, I'm going to go back and do this. My mom had been been a ballerina, so I'd like left left it in high school and I thought, eh, I don't want to do that. yeah And then...
00:43:55
Speaker
got back into it in university. And I thought I was going to be really good. But unfortunately, between the time I had quit and the time I picked it back up, my growth spurt had occurred and my center of gravity was really different. And so I was no longer good at it. I was terrible at it. And I had taken an intermediate ballet class.
00:44:17
Speaker
And so I was getting like maybe a B out of sympathy from this teacher. And she was an older lesbian. And by older, I mean, i was like 21 at that time, and had just cut my hair off and had, you know, like my nose piercing. And ah yeah, she was maybe in her late 20s.
00:44:38
Speaker
And um Phil knew her because she was a grad student. And she took me under her wing and she was married to a woman or she wasn't married, but she was long term partnered. And through my friend Phil, I knew that ah she was in an open relationship. And I was like, what?
00:45:00
Speaker
um because her partner like lived in seattle or something and this was all in iowa and um at the beginning of the semester i was like eh she's not that hot and then i watched her dance right and then you know like every day you know like when i would go to class i mean this bitch could dance and it was very attractive yeah and um she would give me um private lessons, you know, like during office hours. Uh-huh. Do what you want me to do. Exactly. I had to finish. I had to finish. Yeah. And then was around the time that Facebook had just started. And it was like still kind of like a thing if you were like going to ask somebody like to be Facebook. You poked her on Facebook? Oh, yeah. You couldn't even do that yet. Like it was like still when you had to have like university account. EDU or email address. Yeah.
00:45:59
Speaker
Yeah. And I told my friend Phil, I was like, Phil, I think I want to make friends with her. And he told her, yeah he told her. and then i went to like my private, you know, my private. yeah And she emerged because she was always changing in her little, little office when I would get there because she was like, hey and I know. And I think she knew she was fucking with me because, because when I walked up to her and was like, Oh, Hey, you know, like I'm ready here. both Blah, blah, blah.
00:46:33
Speaker
Yeah. She looked at me in the hallway and she was like, oh, I'm so sorry. just am so busy and I don't have time to keep helping me like this. And then I think my face just, yeah, I think my face just like absolutely crushed. And she looked and she goes, yeah.
00:46:53
Speaker
Look, you're so What? What's wrong? So weird. Did she, like, take you like her your face into her bosom and be like, you yeah I'm so sorry.
00:47:05
Speaker
Wow. She was a nice queen. Yeah. So wait, wait, wait. There's one last part to this story. yeah So then this was the same gestalt, the the cultural gestalt we were living through was early Facebook, Sweet 16 on MTV, right? Remember that show where, yeah. And there was this goth girl who was throwing her like zebra themed, it was the queerest episode.
00:47:30
Speaker
yeah And Phil and I were like laying on his bed, chilling, The 10 spot. watching this Yeah. And we were watching this show maybe two weeks later. And he looks at me was like, oh, you wouldn't believe it. I talked to her, the the professor, or my grad student crush. And she was like, and he was like, oh, yeah, she told me about her ultimate fantasy. She's into BDSM. And at that point, I was like, wait, what? What's BDSM?
00:47:56
Speaker
But anyway. goodness. Yeah. But anyway. yeah You were sheltered, Shelly. Yeah, exactly. We're from nice we're nice Christian women, Shelley.
00:48:06
Speaker
I've always known about ropes. I didn't. you did. yeah yeah and she And it was at that point that he turned to me and he was like, Liz, she told me about her ultimate fantasy. And it was like to tie somebody up and then to turn them on and tease them and then just to leave them crying out after.
00:48:25
Speaker
wow and i And I looked at him and i was like, oh Oh my God. She did that to me. Yeah. She did it. Yeah. Yes, she She emotionally, psychologically BD'd S M'd you. Yeah. Did she just ED every one of those words? i did. BD'd S M'd you. Okay.
00:48:48
Speaker
And this is before you even got to poke her on Facebook. Right. never got to poke her. I still to this day get scared to talk about this stuff because I'm like, oh whatever. But I know she know. She literally looked at my face and she's like, oh, you're so sad. Anyway, the vampire thing is because like I wrote an extra credit ah paper for that class and I got to see Dracula and because we had to go watch a ballet and like review it.
00:49:16
Speaker
And I wrote the gayest review of it because I just talked about how Dracula's lines were just so beautiful and sensual because he had hand extensions on.
00:49:31
Speaker
Big long fingers, baby. Big long fingers. Everything everywhere all at once. That's hot. That's hot. yeah So do you think your... like creativity connected in any way to like you identifying your authentic queer self, wherever you think that has like emptied it ended up with you.
00:49:55
Speaker
does that mean Does that make sense? No. Go ahead, Michael. Yeah. howll has going to say like, You talked about being defiant your otherness. Where does creativity come into play to help define or realize that or recognize maybe through the art or through music, your authentic self?
00:50:22
Speaker
that Sure. I think the only, i think um I think once you speak something, then it comes into existence. um And we're, you know, we're humans of stories and that's why you're making this podcast, right? Because like, good person yeah.
00:50:41
Speaker
And, um, So if you don't write them down and if you don't, or if you don't do something with them, then, um, I don't know. I think the weight of, of experiences I've gotten older and all of the wonderful experiences I've been so grateful to live through, then, uh, then they just compile and they too, they feel too heavy for me to carry. If I, if I'm not creating something to, to help me remember them, I guess.
00:51:07
Speaker
Yeah. Finding yourself like in that art. What's up? Like finding yourself in that art. Yeah. Are you still arting? Yeah. And for me, it's like a mnemonic device, honestly. It's on like a mnemonic. but I had a health crisis like a couple of years ago. And um yeah, I think that was like, my writing has always been queer in the sense that like, I'm just a queer human and like everything about me is queer. And yeah, ah
00:51:41
Speaker
But um yeah, my writing for me is like the building of my identity every day.
Reflecting on Defining Life Experiences
00:51:48
Speaker
It's, it's how I know who I am. So I wouldn't know. i don't want to only live in opposition. I want to, you know, make meaning of my own in some way. um or Not even of my own. Cause I don't really believe that any one of us can just, you know, like claim anything as our own, but just to reiterate my point of view in the in the cacophony that's for sure and i yeah that that really resonates with the journal metaphor language in your life writing your own story um i love that kind of return to that that metaphor i think um that's wonderful yeah so voloshinov was like a russian formalist right and he's a literary critic from
00:52:37
Speaker
like 1930s Russia. And I'll never forget finding him in a class in university. And he was so, it he continues to be just like, what he says is so true is like, the only reason why we know what a doorknob is, is because we have the word doorknob, right? right um And otherwise, like, would we know what to do? No, not necessarily. And of course, we have visual memory and all of these things, but like,
00:53:07
Speaker
in the way that for our queer, this is an example for our queer book club. We read our wives under the sea by Julia Armfield. And I think um she's a writer that takes metaphor And is able to express emotions that we all know and we've all felt, but we haven't been able to like put words to and, but and yet she finds a way to to say them differently. And yeah, it's just a way to get to know it's, you know, both inward looking and outward looking at the same time, just a way to get to know the human world.
00:53:44
Speaker
And I love that what you're saying about being able to speak into the world or write into the world or somehow articulate through creativity right what it is about yourself that is becoming.
00:54:02
Speaker
yeah I just think that's really a beautiful way of putting it. And that maybe as a, like as a route, writing these things down or working or working through them in your journal, even if they were paid for like whatever time it was, yeah that it still helped in who you became.
00:54:26
Speaker
Yeah, absolutely. and love that. I'm also curious because, you know, I'm your resident witchy friend. um Tuesday the Lunar New Year.
00:54:37
Speaker
It's also a new year. Yes. Fire horse. And just curious, did you write down, like, any intentions for the new year or, like, ideas of what you want to continue becoming?
00:54:50
Speaker
No, I don't think that I did. um And lately I've been... um Lately, I haven't been doing like a ah lot of intention writing. I've been just doing like some journaling about like naming feelings that I'm having, more or less, just kind of like more meditative writing. um But it it is it's interesting because like when we talk about writing, it's as... um it's uh the gamut of writing is ridiculous right like sometimes we write for other people or for for public consumption most of what i write is just a journaling exercise you can write poetry you can write fiction um can just write stream of consciousness and and i've just been writing like lately i've just been writing stream of consciousness in the morning just to kind of situate myself because i'm
00:55:34
Speaker
I'm in the middle of running around right now in my life. So I'm just trying to. As like this, like self historian having these journals, have you gone back and read or maybe is there is there a moment when you're like, this was a moment where like the road forked. This was a moment when like,
00:55:54
Speaker
Shit changed. Yeah. Yeah. That crush in high school was a big one for me. And I ah will never forget um when I was graduating high school, I literally looked at myself in the mirror.
00:56:07
Speaker
I think like after a shower and I was just heartbroken because I was like, this means I'm never, I'm not going to be able to see this person anymore. Like i don't have an excuse to come and say hi to her. And I looked at myself and I thought, and this was, this is where the idea of like the weight of memory is too much sometimes, or the weight of the feeling is too much is, um, I looked at my myself in the mirror and I was like, Lizzie, you're going to have to just carry parts of her in you. from now on. And this is what grief is. Oh my God. Yeah. Yeah. Maturing moment.
00:56:38
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah, exactly. That's beautiful. Oh yeah, sure. But like, tu yeah No, Yeah. And I can only imagine that you at this time, what you were like 17? 18? Yeah. 17, This 18. would have been like one of those like one of those life-changing epiphanies.
00:57:01
Speaker
Yeah. like or For sure. And you may look back on it with little bit of cynicism now, but still, that's huge. Oh, yeah, totally. You put it beautifully. Yeah.
00:57:12
Speaker
I love that. Longing that whole, the whole, like, I'm going to say but early queer condition where you're just like, I have no, what do I do with all of this love? Yeah.
00:57:26
Speaker
Pining. Pining. Exactly. Back to the log cabin we go. yeah we're yearning. We're pining. Yeah, absolutely. I'm going to tell my children this is a log cabin Republican.
00:57:40
Speaker
So James Speed. Yes, Joshua, Joshua. Oh, God damn it. Or Joshua. Yes, that's ah for all the Will and Grace fans. They'll know what I'm talking about there. um But so this reflection back, you the high school moment.
00:57:57
Speaker
um Have you have you gone back recently? Have you looked back or open those journals? Or um here's a yeah question. Have you allowed your wife to look at your journals?
00:58:11
Speaker
And read through them. Oh, sure. So yeah, I've, I've definitely shared like anecdotes. um Yeah. With a lot of my friends. Yeah. I mean, I have some like silly stories that I've journaled about. This is a good, yeah, this one's probably the silliest.
00:58:26
Speaker
ah I had the um rich girl, rich girl experience of studying abroad in university anne I got to do that and I was so lucky to do it. And it was also where I was like, I'm going to figure out if I'm gay. Cause like, I'm not going to do that in Iowa. I'm going to definitely try it out. And then like, you know, if, ah if I am gay, then I won't have done it, you know, like we're in a place that i get in trouble for it.
00:58:54
Speaker
Um, and so, yeah. so Yeah. Going to a blue state. Yeah, exactly. So yeah I went to Europe and, um I had the chance to go on a weekend to London and there was, a friend of mine, uh, met her friend who was an out gay man at that time. And, uh, we all were like deep booping around London together and Euro pride happened to be happening.
00:59:23
Speaker
which was Is that like Eurovision where people compete in a competition to see who's the best singer-songwriter? yeah Who's the gayest? it's Yeah, except it's just a giant parade where they're all competing. Yeah. um So yeah, we got to go to like the giant gay pride parade. And then we went out afterwards to like a gay club. And it was, you know, like my first gay club that I ever went to. And I made out with a very straight older Welsh woman. um And I tried to take her home. Yeah, I tried to take her home. But she was like, Oh, no, honey, like I'm straight. and Whatever.
00:59:59
Speaker
ah And then I ended up getting a ride from a gospel like a London gospel singer named Terry Walker. Terry like Texas Hold'em and Walker, like Texas Ranger or something like that. I don't know. Terry like, yeah. There's a lot of words in that sentence. yeah European Christian gospel singer, Texas Walker Ranger. If it were a casserole, I'd eat it I'm just going to say. Yeah.
01:00:28
Speaker
Yeah, exactly. It was a great night. And I got back to my hostel unscathed. And then the next morning, of course, being a nice Christian woman, I went to, um I don't know, like' like Old Ben. if There's like a church or a chapel down by Old Ben. And big there was...
01:00:46
Speaker
Yeah, yeah, wherever. It was old with an E, Shelley. Calm down. yeah okay some Yeah, there's some chapel over there. there Like Westminster Abbey?
01:00:59
Speaker
yeah maybe. i don't know. It's like a building or something. There was a free organ concert, and so was like, I'm going go in there. And then yes continue there was a free organ concert and so i was like i'm going to go in there and then I was so excited, so like keyed up from the night before that yeah on the church program in this at probably Westminster Abbey where I'm listening to this church organ free yeah concert, I journaled all about my first lesbian experience. What a beautiful space. I mean, that to me is like what...
01:01:39
Speaker
Sanctuary is about. Yeah. Yeah. Like finding that space where you can be yourself. And I think for so many people within,
01:01:52
Speaker
who maybe are queer or are, an have an otherness. There's like this antenna, right? We're very, we're all, we're sensitive to specific things. We're drawn to these places that honor human humanity. a church is just like,
01:02:10
Speaker
It's just like, it's it's, in my opinion, meant to like uplift the beauty of humanity and for you to like have, again, like returning to this journal, returning to the word, returning you to, and the music and the space and, and being able to ah for lack of a better term, like come to Jesus, like have your moment like with yourself. though Like you, like the the identifying how i'm I'm gushing a bit because I would have loved that as a young queer person yeah for the church to be a space where I found something versus a space where I felt like I had to lose or change something. Or repress. Right. Yeah.
01:02:58
Speaker
Totally. Yeah. Yeah, I just like the music. I was there the music. And you know, those organs, they just resonate so beautifully. Like just so wholly that you can feel it vibrating through your whole beat. Girl, I had been vibrating a very high frequency for almost 24 hours at that point. Girl. Yeah.
01:03:22
Speaker
Oh, that's wonderful. I was like hitting middle C. Yes. C above middle C. Yeah. That's hot. yeah was it Was it a a moment of transformation? like Tell me about life after that experience.
01:03:43
Speaker
Okay, so then I had one more lesbian experience while i was over where i actually slept with one. Yeah. i um I like had fallen onto a glass and I'd cut my hand a little bit.
01:03:56
Speaker
Jesus. Um, and this girl, I'm a nurse now, but, uh, she literally nursed me back to hell. She took me back to her. Um, yeah, she took me back to her hotel room and this was all on that same study abroad trip. yeah took me back to her hotel we took a shower together she nursed my hand back my left hand back together and I'm a right handed yeah woman what which was good because you know yeah it maybe it wouldn't have happened but we did things yeah we did sleep together and then um that was the moment at which I was like oh no this is great this is really great and I'd slept with men before at that point and I was like nah I could take this or leave it
01:04:38
Speaker
um and then i was like oh yeah no this is this is where i'm at and then i came back and i told phil and started dating my vampiric larissa these are beautiful moments they were beautiful moments thanks for asking me guys it's so fun and cute to re relive No, and I just love that like I know you. like We've been friends for now for like two years, and there's still so much I don't know.
01:05:07
Speaker
and Oh, yeah. No, it was really, really, yeah, it was really, really fun for me. i don't know if you want me to say this. No, it's okay. You don't have to. um Okay, I won't. What was it? Hold on. I looked away for one second, and I missed an inside joke or something.
01:05:24
Speaker
Anyway, it was really fun for me to realize that, like, I don't know, like a couple months ago, you were like, oh, yeah, I made my boyfriend wear a dog collar in high school. And i was like, yes! Yes, you did, we're talking about discovery. Yeah, discoveries. I love the concept.
01:05:43
Speaker
The concept of discovery. The concept of dis yeah discovery. Yeah. So, Liz... yeah so liz If we had to wrap this up, if we had to say like, okay, Liz's biggest root is... My high school teacher.
01:06:04
Speaker
Your high school teacher. Oh, the high school teacher moment. oh Fair. I love that this...
01:06:16
Speaker
Yeah, the yearning of it all. This whole story of yours falls around... A teacher. Language. Teacher. Yeah. Language. And whether that's language, music movement or music or writing or reading, it's just all like this beautiful way of communicating the story. Who
Conclusion and Gratitude
01:06:37
Speaker
you are. Who you are.
01:06:40
Speaker
and I do love that. I think Michael has a question he wants to ask I do have a question. So it's a fill in the blank. Okay. Okay. ah The longer I'm in my queer skin, like the more I'm aware of myself, I am no longer someone who blank. oh
01:07:03
Speaker
I think the parts yeah that's an interesting question, because I think the parts of me that are queer Some are, this is a really interesting question because I actually disagree with this. I think the queer parts have been the true the the truest parts of me. And so like longer I'm in my queer skin, the more I just inhabit my queer skin. Because to me...
01:07:25
Speaker
My queer foreskin is what I'm going to call it. I love that. time Yeah, I'm uncircumcised. I'm going to dock right with you on that. I'm an uncircumcised lesbian. The queer parts are my favorite parts of me. and like I want them to grow as I as i age. because To me, my queerness is about you know questioning and not knowing the answer and listening and always being more expansive. Yeah.
01:07:54
Speaker
And, and okay. So yeah, I guess that's my answer is, uh, and I guess maybe I should re reframe the question is like, what was it? Something, what was something that like you can pinpoint that's like before and after, like before this journey, before coming out before, um you know, maybe exploring these roots or going through these moments, like getting there required me to shed in a specific way.
01:08:25
Speaker
And what was it that you're like, I'm no longer that. I'm not doing blank.
01:08:33
Speaker
I'm not sure that that's my relationship to queerness. I think that my queerness has been. Yeah, I think my queerness has always been such a central part of who I am. Sure. What I yeah what i mean is like. Yeah.
01:08:44
Speaker
That like. I guess I'm expressing it i like. Mm hmm. I explore it more. Yeah, definitely. And like, to me, my queerness is like the parts that I continue to explore even more in my life. So in in that sense, like, even from a young age, I never wanted to define things, right? and I wanted to always live in the gray. Right. um And i for me, that just...
01:09:15
Speaker
For me, like my health crisis was more of a before and after moment. And my queerness just seems part and parcel and and integral to who I am. Right. Like even as a kid. Yeah. Even as a kid, I was like really, really fucking queer when I look it back on it. Like I just haven't ever been not gay. Right.
01:09:35
Speaker
It sounds to me. more like it's not about extracting things or subtracting things it's more about expanding for you right yeah exactly yeah yeah yeah yeah and i feel like that is so that is so authentic to the you that i know yeah that makes sense that totally makes sense i you i don't i I know we're attempting to kind of move for a wrap up here, but there was a bit of a cliffhanger where you talked about like a before and after with, I mean, you know certainly don't have to share about the health crisis. Yeah. Like, and, and like, if you want to expand on that, go for it. um I but'm selfishly like, like listeners aside, Shelley aside, I'm like, ah what? What?
01:10:20
Speaker
popcorn moment. I was like, go on. Yeah. yeah um Yeah. no So Donna Haraway is a 1980s feminist and she wrote the Cyborg Manifesto. And i in 2022, I ran around and I was like, okay, yeah, I want to read the Cyborg Manifesto. blah blah bla right And then I started to get dizzy and I went to the doctor and got an mri because my doctor's really good and made me do it even though i was like, well, I'll be fine. right um and it turns out i had an aneurysm that i had hadn't popped thank god yeah um in my brain pot no it had not thank god because i probably oh i was like do they pop them like yeah yeah no they they if you if it pops in the wild you have a 50 50 chance of surviving oh my god i'm so happy you're alive liz oh thank you thank Yeah, me too. yeah um And so, yeah. So then in, I think it was December, 2022, I had two stents placed in my, right behind my right eye. um And luckily that treated um that aneurysm.
01:11:33
Speaker
and um i'm And now I'm a cyborg. Okay. Yes. There's a full circle with the book. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah. And also it's about more expanding, taking more things in, right? Like since.
01:11:51
Speaker
Exactly. I actually, sometimes if I get really nervous about it, I literally tell my body, Elizabeth, this is part of your body now. Accept it. And I like trying to meditate on that because I'm like, don't little immune system. This is, we are one now. we are And that's, that's a mirror of what you told yourself as you graduated high school with,
01:12:13
Speaker
Yeah, it's kind of how say it. It's kind of your like coping mechanism is like, we're not going to change this. We can't change this. I am me.
01:12:24
Speaker
Let's accept me and take it in and be whole. Expansive. Yeah. While also like. Yeah. Are we all lucky? Fuck yeah.
01:12:36
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah, we are. i mean, we made it. Yeah. maybe a years We made it to the egg. yes yeah Well, so thank you, Liz, so much for sharing your roots and talking to us and spending your evening with us and even troubleshooting with us for like 40 minutes. I know that was really frustrating, but I appreciate it I appreciate you so very much.
01:13:02
Speaker
um And if people want to find out more about you or follow you or any, or like anything you want people to do that? No, yes, no. No, I don't. So don't find me. Yeah. We won't. Okay, let's go. I had a hard time with you in the first place.
01:13:21
Speaker
Yeah. When wanted to start that book club a million years ago. Oh yeah. so Oh yeah. We want to start fortifest. Liz Get Be Found. Yeah, ah it's a I work in a public facing job. The ICU isn't exactly as ah a stressless situation. don't want be found. on scar But ah stay tuned. I'm going to try to get a porch fest in Wichita going for next ah yeah spring. So yeah.
01:13:45
Speaker
Yeah. If you know people, let me know. want to come. I asked Shelly and Mallory. I was like, I need to know when I can come hang in Wichita in the first quarter of the year. You you did Yes, we gave you dates. What? Specific dates? Yes, specific dates. I'm so sorry.
01:14:09
Speaker
No, I didn't. I need to return back because I definitely want to meet you in person, Liz. And thank you so much for your time. we have no... um Further questions. We have no outro catchphrase.
01:14:25
Speaker
gary No, we don't really. if we Do you have any ideas, Liz? Yeah. We do want to say a special thanks to Scott Stone for making our magnificent intro music. It's amazing. I love it.
01:14:39
Speaker
And if you guys enjoyed this conversation, you can certainly subscribe to the podcast. where We're asking people for subscriptions to our podcast. Yeah, let's do it. You subscribe to your favorite podcast situation.
01:14:52
Speaker
You can follow us on Instagram. Tell somebody about this podcast. Yeah, tell them. Our handle is RootsAreShowingPod. Pod?
01:15:05
Speaker
Yeah, RootsAreShowing. I would love to say that this was brought to you by Squarespace I feel like every podcast is brought to you by Squarespace. Maybe one day. Maybe one day. Maybe one day. I believe. This was brought you by HCA Healthcare. Yes. The McDonald's of medicine.
01:15:24
Speaker
Yes. That's thing. Do you want to supersize that? oh Wow. Interesting. Well, with that, I'm just going to say your roots are showing. Thanks coming out. Thanks for those roots.
01:15:37
Speaker
Bye. Bye.