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Episode 3: Watermelon Jolly Rancher
84 Plays2 months ago
Join Michael + Shelly as they talk with Anna about thrasher bluegrass, handsome childhoods, and watermelon jolly ranchers. There's even mention of a sugar shiv. It's a hoot.
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Transcript
Introduction to 'Your Roots Are Showing'
00:00:31
Speaker
Welcome to Your Roots Are Showing, the podcast where Shelly and I and Michael talk about being unapologetically queer, as well as the moments that got us here and our guests to where we are.
00:00:43
Speaker
Let's pull up our big girl panties, or maybe just our favorite tighty-whities, with Anna. And to sweeten the deal, we might even talk about Jolly Ranchers. How does that sound? Oh my gosh. Hello. Thanks for having me. I'm so honored to be a part of this. What a cool, cool podcast. This is exactly what I would want to listen to.
00:01:03
Speaker
Excellent. And we are so excited to have you. um I just wanted to take a quick moment though, and like give you and our listeners like a quick working definition of our term root in the queer context of the show. So it is a term originally from or at least like originally for me. New to my ears. Yeah.
00:01:23
Speaker
Yeah. The first time I ever heard it was in 1999's movie, but I'm a cheerleader written by Brian Wayne Peterson and directed by Jamie Babbitt. And so for us, me and Michael, um, root means either the first inkling of a notion that you were queer or a hindsight is thing. Like,
00:01:48
Speaker
It's like a looking back now, it all clicks and you can absolutely see how the pieces of your queerness have fallen into place. Or it can be both. Because like the two ideas aren't mutually
Anna's Background and Friendship with Michael
00:02:01
Speaker
exclusive, right? And certainly one so yeah and certainly one can like lead to the other,
00:02:07
Speaker
if that makes sense So sweet that's kind of what we're working from. And just to give everyone this, like the big idea. Yeah. More of the basis. So Anna introduce yourself with anything you think we need to know, including how, you know, either of us, how you identify what you do, what you're into your pronouns, blood type, whatever you, whatever you want share. us that three okay on anna Oh my gosh. I feel like I'm in danger already of just oversharing. I knew this was going to be the problem because Michael and I go, how don't know how long we've known each other for now, but years. think we kind of circled each other. We orbited each other for a long time. Yeah. And then I don't, I feel like we really clicked when we went to Boise for TreeFord. Oh my God.
00:02:58
Speaker
Yeah, definitely. That trip was epic in many ways. That was so magical. was all i already have questions. Oh my gosh. How long ago was that?
Growing Up Queer in a Liberal Community
00:03:08
Speaker
Oh my gosh. Was it pre-pandemic?
00:03:12
Speaker
Wow. I feel like it might've been after because I feel like I joined Blue Book. Like I'd wanted to join Blue Book, which is the band I play in in Denver.
00:03:22
Speaker
It was 2022. Yeah. Okay. Oh, good. Way to bring up. Because I remembered lusting out. Blue Book was my favorite band in Denver for years. And I slowly tried to seduce my way into the band. Oh, my God. There I am. Wow. Yeah. I just pulled up a picture from that. So it's one of my favorite pictures. And it revolves on your iPhone. I have a select of my friend group. And I love that picture so much. And that trip was so fun. So, yeah. I think that's where really like.
00:03:54
Speaker
yeah out yeah yeah i love that i'm i'm so honored that i'm like a part of your rotating photos on your phone michael yeah shelly there of she is 2007 8 come on oh yeah no the latest one i replaced i replaced our shelly with the the downtown golden Oh, okay. I'm hanging off a bull's horn. so Tell me more about that. yeah No, no, no, no. And the opposite.
00:04:23
Speaker
Tell us more about you. Oh, yeah. Okay, okay, let's see. um yeah i Yeah, there's so there's two. I know going have to kind of like pare down what I say because I could say so many things. And especially knowing Michael so well now. And now I feel like i've we've already just bonded so hard, Shelley and I. So i feel like I'm destined to just say more than I probably should. But um my name is Anna and my pronouns are she, her. I am gay. Okay.
00:04:54
Speaker
Surprise on a queer podcast. um yeah But um no, I'm, ah i yeah, it sounds so formal to say gay or lesbian but or queer. I don't know, whatever. I'm of firms of of the homosexual Homosexual kind.
00:05:11
Speaker
But, um yeah, I guess I would call myself a lesbian, but I think queer is a more fun term. Sometimes lesbian feels very clinical or very, like, rigid or boxy. um But let's see.
00:05:26
Speaker
I know. i almost said that. Great. Yeah. What else? Let's see. I'm a musician and a guitar tech and I live right now. My life is kind of in a bit of chaos, but I live in Denver and Seattle kind of operating back and forth or Seattle Olympia is more close, but yeah. um What else?
00:05:48
Speaker
What else? What else about me? So can you like tell us the vibes of the community that you grew up in or like your, so did you grow up in Olympia or are you are you originally from Denver? Yeah.
00:06:03
Speaker
Yeah, I grew up in Olympia, which is notoriously like a very gay, friendly, very liberal place in the world. But I didn't realize or like really be like, oh my God, I'm so gay until I was like 19 and in college. Oh, wow. So, yeah.
00:06:19
Speaker
Yeah, within like your family or the community, like I remember figuring out my older brother told me that our neighbor was gay. And I remember just being like, when I was like, night I was like, what is that? and But if you were like in a more progressive community, did you feel like you grew up around kind of knowing more about it? what Like, were your parents super religious? Were they more liberal? Like, what was the like just the origins of that sort of hometown young Anna? Yeah.
00:06:50
Speaker
I well, we weren't religious, which was a huge gift. i think like as I've like grown, you know, like I feel like sharing your origin stories of people you dating is like kind of like a rite of passage when you first meet someone and be like, well, how did you figure it out? um So I feel like I've been having these conversations recently, but didn't grow up religious, which was really great. And um I did have like a religious moment in high school. I was just kind of like, well, who is Jesus? I don't even know. Yeah. What would he do? What would he do? What are those bracelets about? and felt actually really dumb about the whole thing. And I was like, because I think everyone around me had some kind of like, we were very like, um you know, like we celebrated Christmas and Easter, but like without any of the religious underpinnings. And think like. You didn't drink the blood of Christ?
00:07:33
Speaker
Actually. yeah Well, the no, that's real for real though. That's a different kind of trans. That's transubstantiate. Yeah. Okay. Different kind. Yeah. Yeah.
00:07:45
Speaker
We're clear now. yeah And we've also just lost one third of our listeners. Well, no. So you grew up in Olympia and like, yeah, you had a little religious moment at age 19 or not 19. Well, I would call that a religious moment. I'd be like, Oh, I'm gay. Yeah. Totally. Jesus is real. No, just um but so Like Michael and I are both from Kansas, right? um And I didn't grow up in a household that talked about queerness or gayness. um
00:08:19
Speaker
But it was also kind of like we weren't going to talk about it. And like Michael had one person on the block. um Did you have a similar experience or was it just like, oh, it's out there and it's an option?
00:08:34
Speaker
yeah I think I'm trying to figure out when I learned about, like there was, um ah but my I guess my classmate had two moms and that was like the the biggest and closest. And then I think there were kids that I grew up with. I think like definitely people were teased in a way that I didn't really even understand probably when we were very young, like people calling each other fags or, you know, yeah or or even lesbians. Like I remember one girl was like mercilessly teased.
00:09:03
Speaker
for being a lesbian. I don't even think she was. It was just like whatever they'd. So I think that was, and there was enough of that, even within this very liberal community that i knew that it wasn't something that I necessarily, like, i was like, oh, this is not a good thing if this is like the language you're using to tease people with. But i so that was, and I remember this classmate of mine had two moms and, but they were also very celebrated within like our friend group. So there was like a weird kind of like disconnect between what like I would hear on the bus on the way home and then like in middle school being like, yeah.
00:09:36
Speaker
Quick question. Are we talking like second third grade are we talking like six seventh oh six seven okay trying to yeah well what's confusing and i like think about this now is like i grew up i was like such a tomboy and i wanted to be a boy so badly i grew up um child oh my god i was devastatingly cute yeah you were like magazine quality commercial ready oh my god you're gonna be on the barney show I mean, you're you're like TV ready, such a handsome child. Oh, my gosh. Oh, my God. Wow, I'm blushing. Thank you. I was such a gri cute little boy. handsome and beautiful. Oh, thanks. I do i think sometimes when I like feel awkward in the world, I'm like, you're just still that tiny little boy that is like inside this woman's body.
00:10:24
Speaker
Right, we're just still those little creatures bouncing around in adult bodies. If I can real quick,
Childhood Experiences and Cultural Signals
00:10:29
Speaker
there is something about like, I remember being like that age, well, not sixth seventh grade, but like six years old, seven years old, and feeling much more like energy or a spark and like the concept, like gender and like the roles, all those things weren't so heavy. Like I wasn't so aware.
00:10:49
Speaker
so And then suddenly you're like, something happens and you're like, oh, I have to change or i have to suppress or I have to exaggerate or whatever it is.
00:11:00
Speaker
that There's those moments when you're like, wait, what? world Oh my God. I wore lip gloss. Like, and I know you don't know this about me, Anna, but like, I don't wear a stitch of makeup. Like I'm just not at all. But when I was in sixth grade through like eleventh grade,
00:11:20
Speaker
I wore lip gloss and like eyeshadow. It was so performative for me because I just felt like I had to be some kind of like put togetherness and that put togetherness was only gonna happen if I had the gloss and eyeshadow. Right.
00:11:39
Speaker
Oh, fascinating. Yeah. Wait, did you guys have glamour shots when you were growing up? yeah. They were around, my mom and my sister had them done in a hotel room.
00:11:51
Speaker
A what? It was like a thing. um That sounds so sketch. It was like, tell me more. It the tiny town. It was a greaselands. It looked like the view. It was, it was beautiful. There was a rose being held across the chest. Oh my God. Gorgeous. I was in a leather jacket and I was told to like pop my collar and kind of side-eye the camera. And so I have naturally curly hair and it, uh, you know, was very untamed.
00:12:26
Speaker
And so they tried to like blow it out and as a way to tame it. That seems so nonsensical now, but it's what they did. Um, Yeah, so I just, I had those glamour shots. Ours were in the mall, though. Yeah, that's fair. We had a mall, but it was not quite a real mall.
00:12:43
Speaker
Okay, back to this gorgeous Anna's. um So there is something very interesting about how, like... things that are celebrated kind of around us where it's like oh you know this this family has two moms and they're so great and we need to come you know like so support this thing i guess like for lack of a better term um like politically correct over here but and then you know like my church group was like oh we accept to everybody we love everyone everybody's welcome but in the sidelines or on the bus whatever
00:13:20
Speaker
there was to what you were speaking about earlier. There's like signaling, subtle signaling that that is bad and that is wrong. And even though nobody's like calling you out on it and nobody's like necessarily putting, you know, the image up and saying like, this is wrong or bad. It's like, it's just a weird double speak that happens.
00:13:41
Speaker
Yeah. When we're in these communities that do this, I feel like it happened. It's still happening, of course. Oh yeah. Yeah. So like, Going back to that time, what was, you know, knowing that maybe it was like, hey, this is good, this is bad. Those first inklings come up.
00:14:01
Speaker
Maybe the jolly rancher water the water Jolly Rancher, Watermelon Jolly Rancher comes up or comes into play around this time. Yeah. Oh, definitely. So I grew up like just like a little boy, like really wanted to pass as a little boy.
00:14:17
Speaker
and like, I think there was like a few occasions when I went swimming, all of my little friends were little boys. And I remember we went swimming and I just was like, oh, they're all taking their shirts off and just jump in the pool. And i was like, well, nobody knows I'm not a boy. And it was like before you're like, obviously anything else. And I remember like swimming in my shorts and it was like the biggest success. I was like glowing for like weeks after that being like, I got to swim in the pool like a boy. like god And I would like try to go into the boys bathroom all the time. And it was just like, I just wanted to so badly to be that thing. And I think more than anything, what i am kind of like getting to, and I'll get to this Jolly Rancher business was, um, that i like,
00:14:57
Speaker
and Like, I think I wanted to be a little boy in part because they, what the little boys around me were doing was so much more interesting. Like I was really excited about fort building and like pocket knives and like all that stuff. But I think it also, like, I think wanting to be a little boy more aligned with how I felt about girls. And I think there was like, I think that was weirdly this easier way to kind of like understand my own like sexuality and gender before I had language or any examples of what that was. And I think that's,
00:15:25
Speaker
i think I still think that's really interesting. And what I also cherish now and like the way that I grew up is that I was such a little boy and my parents, like I think having met other tomboys that have grown into who we are now, are like having parents be really um restrictive about what they were wearing or how their hair was in ways that didn't let them yeah like explore that or I guess... some be perceived as little boys. Whereas I, my, my mom, like, let me have a mullet when I wanted a mullet. And when I wanted a rat tail, she's like, let me have a rat tail. Although that was a fight. I didn't have to fight for the rat tail. It was amazing. And she let me like, just be a little boy. And like, and there wasn't, and I think like what you were saying, Mike, was there was like, yeah it was, there was a real purity and fluidity around it because gender roles weren't so defined. And I think right what I kind of loved about what, what,
00:16:13
Speaker
like the feelings I felt then weren't so defined by gender roles or sexuality or like even this under vague understanding of what sex was. It was just kind of these, like, there was a real purity to it because it didn't, it didn't align with my, it didn't align with like my actual anatomy in the ways that I understood it, but it was just like outside of how I would have been taught or how I would have learned to have crushes on people or whatever. Yeah. So, but I, yeah, but yet. was still totally accepted.
00:16:42
Speaker
Like, You got to revel in that. You got to have these wonderful, fabulous moments of like joy. Yes. Because you got to be who you are.
00:16:53
Speaker
Yeah. yeah ah I love that. Got to be seen how you want to be seen. So you're home right now. I am home. Did you tell your parents were doing this podcast? No, no. I thought about it, but the car ride was so stressful. I didn't want to be like, let's talk about my queer identity as a child. I i actually should have actually, that would have been, i would have actually loved to hear my mom's. Well, we've talked about it since actually. And she was like, Talking about, because I think someone, she goes, she's like a part of the Unitarian Church here, which is amazing. And I like, like so inclusive and beautiful. And I love that she's a part of systems. I'm like, yeah, that's great. I'm so excited for that. But I think someone came to speak and they were talking about, or maybe there was an article she read or something where someone had been raising a, like a tomboy, like a
00:17:39
Speaker
like a me and their experience of like kind of watching their child grow up and knowing that they might struggle with gender identity or sexuality or whatever as they were growing up. And my mom and I talked about this. This was like a decade ago.
00:17:52
Speaker
And I think she would kind of express for the first time is that she'd kind of had some feelings of like, how is this going to go for you? But at the same time was just... she really did just like let me be who I was and when I wanted to dress like a little boy or like all of my all the decor in my room was like very boy like it was just she really didn't ever be like well you should try these girly things instead or like what about Barbies or whatever stupid thing yes otherwise available but she really just like let me be that thing and I reckon I didn't realize how much of a gift that was until years later that she was like do you have any siblings Anna I do have two older sisters Ah, interesting.
Early Crushes and Performative Queerness
00:18:30
Speaker
Yeah. I'm a baby. The little baby boy that became yeah suddenly somehow a woman. but Okay, but wait, I need us to go back. um You mentioned watermelon Jolly Ranchers. So could you please just take a few moments and tell us... Okay, so this podcast is called Your Roots Are Showing and you identified your root...
00:18:56
Speaker
As a watermelon Jolly Rancher. watermill Yes. yeah Beautiful. I love this. They're the best Jolly Ranchers also. Thought to me, but please tell us.
00:19:09
Speaker
Oh my gosh. so I think kind of going back to that, like the purity of feeling, like I really just like felt like a little boy, but my name was Anna. Like it was very obvious that I was a girl, but also like in my, I think I've maybe either blocked it out or don't really remember what other students thought of me. I think people would always be like, are you a boy or a girl? And I would probably just like run away and be like, what do you think? And then like run away. Yeah.
00:19:34
Speaker
But classic, I'm still doing that, it's great. I had the thing where I would talk and people would get confused. So a crazy high-pitched voice until I was like. Aw, cute. I was a soprano until I was in like sixth grade choir, y'all. Oh, baby Michael. But now.
00:19:51
Speaker
Now. ah Okay, back to the watermelon Jolly Ranchers. Okay, watermelon Jolly Ranchers. Yes. So I think what i why I chose that as my root was the first time, because I think growing up within this like little boyhood and Like I think I had crushes on girls, but I couldn't I would never have like been able to understand that they were crushes I was just like wow mrs. Wilson is so cool. I really want to hang out in her classroom or like Like you just couldn't I couldn't identify what was happening and then this for the first time i had a massive crush in fifth grade on this girl named Jessica I'll just say Jessica h
00:20:29
Speaker
okay But I, she was just like, I just, it was like the first time I like could understand that I was like, oh, I don't just like want to be around you. I like, like you in this yeah way. And I guess in fifth grade, you're probably like 11.
00:20:42
Speaker
I want to make clothes for you. want to make food for you. And like, I want to play the like the little paper game where you're like, um, gray, G-R-A-Y. Yeah. What are those called? Oh my God. Fortune tellers. Is that what you have? A little fortune teller. Yeah. Right now.
00:20:57
Speaker
yeah yeah Oh my God. okay I would love that. I would love that if that was a part of this. But you want to be a fortune teller for Jessica? Oh my God. Jessica H. And I, so I was like super crushed out and I remember distinctly,
00:21:11
Speaker
just like like being like a blushing little boy. Like I just like was so enchanted by this other fifth grader. And I remember being like, i can't remember if this came before the Dollar Ranch or not, but I know it must've been after. But so for Valentine's Day, you know, everyone's like giving each other these like silly little Valentines and everybody in the class gets a Valentine. Like, right so this wasn't even special is the point, but she, she gave me, This watermelon Jolly Rancher. And it was one of those old school ones. This is like 1995 where it's like they're they're super long and deadly. Like you can lick them down to a very sharp, deadly point if you really wanted to. It's shiv. Yeah. And so in fifth grade, we were armed with sugar shivs.
00:21:52
Speaker
But she gave me this Jolly Rancher. I know. I was like, ooh, that's the name of this knife. sh I love it so much. Or the name of a dance from the Come on, everybody.
00:22:05
Speaker
Let's just shave. Yeah. This is good. i I'm going to write this down. Yeah. You guys will get writing credit for whatever happens. okay But I, so she gave me this Jolly Rancher with a valentine and I just remember being so over the moon about it and just like, oh my God, that I never ate the Jolly Rancher. And I kept that Jolly Rancher for years. And I actually, because I'm in Olympia right now, I was like, I wonder if I actually still have this Jolly Rancher. To this day, many many decades later, i think I might have still this totally preserved watermelon Jolly Rancher as a testament to just how much I like was in love with those big greens.
00:22:43
Speaker
as a fifth grader as well i am dying right now this is like the cutest like i want you to find it and then i want jessica h to come back into your life and it's like a whole rom-com i'm right oh my god yeah i'm writing a novel and we're gonna call it the jolly ranchers the happy farmer my god it's gonna be like on a yeah oh this is good this is somebody from hallmark give me a call You can reach me at all of my socials.
00:23:13
Speaker
We'll write this together. Oh my gosh. do Can I like have a cameo? Can I be like, can I be the Jolly Rancher in the movie? Yeah. Starring Anna Moritzat. Even better. And you can also write the music for the like soundtrack. Perfect. We'll do the sugar shiv. Yes. Oh my God. Absolutely.
00:23:32
Speaker
To me, you good shoulder actually it's like a shimmying thing. If you can hear my voice, I'm shimmying right now. yeah um Look at those shoulders. Oh, thanks. So are you the the whole like, you know this this little Anna, this person, this world, hiding, not hiding, not knowing what to do. And yet there's like,
00:23:53
Speaker
So you're performer. You're a musician. You're an artist. Was there always that sort of vein in your life?
Navigating Queer Identity in Adulthood
00:24:02
Speaker
like ah so i'm i'm having Sorry, I'm my'm having dual thoughts right now. One thought is, is queerness sometimes performative?
00:24:11
Speaker
ah The other thought is, is it a learned thing? do you like, can you talk about sort of maybe early performances or early times when you were like a musician or, or,
00:24:25
Speaker
first time you were on stage and like, what does it mean to be in front of people in sort of the shadow or the light, I guess, and maybe your case of acceptance of like, I'm going to be me big and loud in front of people. going to take my shirt off and jump in this pool. Like. You saw that?
00:24:43
Speaker
I'm just kidding. i say we Last summer at Pride, you were there? oh my God. I know you did last summer. Yes. We all know. Everybody does. Everyone has a phone and a camera now. No, but i that's a really great question because I think for a while... um Well, I think it was interesting because I was like grew up as this like queer little tomboy. And then in like sixth grade, someone pulled me aside and was like, you better like figure this out. Oh, no. Because like this isn't going to go very well for you. And I was like, what do you mean? And so I think there was like a transformative summer where I like grew my hair out and learned how to put it in a ponytail, which I had never done before, which is hilarious. And then like, you know, sorry, I lost that one. Yeah.
00:25:27
Speaker
kind of like femmed it up and then i was like, okay, this is what we do. And so I think there was like a few years there. Performance. Performance, like yeah, gender performance, which is now I like think about all the things I do, even down to like the socks I wear that I'm like, this is like gender euphoria. It's like me recalling like who the purest of who I was. It's like a 40-year-old. But um I so yeah, then I like performed this very and I wasn't like far off. I think I just like what it was. I think it honestly, too, I think about my experience of like middle school and high school and I promise I'll tie this back into performance. But I think it was like interesting.
00:26:01
Speaker
Because I felt all those feelings and I was somewhat aware of like how that wasn't accepted or like that was not a positive thing to like have feelings for girls that I like tucked all those away. But then I didn't really know how to interact with girls. So I didn't have a lot of close girlfriends because I think I was always aware of like how I felt different.
00:26:18
Speaker
Like, I think girls had such a different experience in those years than I did. I felt very like on the outside because I wasn't a boy and I didn't really like want to be with boys, but I wanted to hang out like and then I wanted i was a girl and like wanted to hang out with girls, but also like was aware that I maybe liked them. But then I like shoved all that stuff down.
00:26:35
Speaker
and dated boys in high school and then that was a very confusing time and then it wasn't until I got to college and then i was like oh no I really like I really like Becca like I really like Becca so much like I think I want to like kiss Becca oh my god yeah and then i was like oh I'm gay it's all and then you just like track back and you're like oh my god I've been gay my whole life but as far as performance goes turns out I'm not a lesbian And then everything was revealed. But I, the, as far as being a performer, I think like, so that was when I was like 19 or 20 when I kind of like had that realization. and ah And of course was like around a bunch of gay people at the time. And it was easier to be like, oh, like, and I think maybe that's just to go backwards too, that when you're, When I was growing up, like I didn't like all the examples of gay people that I had in my life. It was they were such extremes. It was like I wasn't like this Femi boy crazy girl that I think a lot of other people were performing that role. And I wasn't this like dyke. Yeah. Yeah. And I wasn't like either of these things. And I was like, well, i'm not this and I'm not this and I'm not a boy, but I'm not a traditional anyway. So.
00:27:37
Speaker
hmm. I think there was like a lot of confusion around that of just like trying to figure out that I was gay because it it didn't, I didn't appear or know to, it didn't look like any of the examples I had, but okay. Back to performance and gayness. um I think about that a lot. Cause I, so I went to college in Portland and then i I went to New York and I was like looking back at photos of myself from like that early twenties era of my life. And it was like kind of before I'd started doing more musical stuff, but it does look like, like, I think there was so much signaling that I felt like I was doing in the way that my hair was or the way I was dressing as if to be like, okay, I'm, I'm gay. Like, how do we like be gay in the world? And how like, how do I find other gays? And so there was a lot of like performative,
00:28:22
Speaker
in a fun way and I think being in New York too where everyone's just like living in extremes and especially in your 20s when you're just like figuring so much stuff out but just looking at all these photos of myself I felt like I was very much performing like queer identity in a fun way um but then in music like i think after a while like i Dating in New York, I felt like I was pretty shy and I still didn't really know how to talk to girls. And so I feel like I would always be at the bar, like late being like, I don't really know how like but what do i have to like, what do I do? and so I would just be like, that is such a lesbian thing too. Like,
00:29:01
Speaker
Like how do I let girls know that I like girls yeah Without like making them feel uncomfortable Like I just want to talk to them were Gay guys are like hey do you want to kiss my mouth right now and it's like Exactly and girls are like good Overthinking it Oh my god forever Wait do I do i like go up do I say anything like Or do I just kind of stare from afar Yeah. The feminine phase. Yeah. yeah so The lesbian experience is so different than the gay man experience from like my conversations with other people. But like, yeah, I i see you so hard right now, Anna, because like. I feel so safe. Yeah. No, like when.
00:29:44
Speaker
So my wife, Mallory and I, when we first started, We don't even call it dating. We called it courting. So when we first started courting, um we were both in roller derby and we were going have our first roller derby um game.
00:29:58
Speaker
Right. And everybody on the team was like, oh, my God, we're going look so cute in these bubble skirts from Old Navy with green tulle. It's going to be so cute.
00:30:09
Speaker
And Mallory and I were like, I don't want to wear a skirt. don't want to wear a skirt. Do you want wear a skirt? And so our courtship basically began by us going on multiple not dates to like JCPenney's and all these ridiculous places to find black pants or shorts that we could wear so we wouldn't have to wear a bubble skirt. Oh my God. And finally...
00:30:37
Speaker
Her roommate, Jodi, was like, Shelly, are you going to ask her out already? Oh, wow. Do you think she'd want to? like Yeah.
00:30:47
Speaker
We had just been to the mall together okay multiple occasions. malls, want to yeah malls Ikea, Costco.
00:30:58
Speaker
If you can survive those three, that you're you're solid. Yeah. We built our relationship on a rock. so Yeah. Oh, yeah. I'm taking notes over here. I'm like, okay, check. JCPenney, Costco. What else do I got? How do I road test everything? Holidays with their families. But I mean, I totally get that. And I think that it's so true about this like You don't want to be like overly pushy as a lesbian trying to like meet someone and you want to catch a vibe and it's hard. It's really hard. um
00:31:35
Speaker
But I also love that, like just thinking of you as the little kiddo, even as like you're an adult human being now, like just kind of being your sweet, sweet self. Oh, right. Quick question. I am kind of seeing this. You can tell me if I'm totally wrong, but if I'm right, I want pictures.
00:31:55
Speaker
Did you, did you go through the Avril Lavigne white tank top, all the bracelets, belt ah tie as a belt? and Oh, actual tie on top of your tank top.
00:32:12
Speaker
Oh, yeah. I mean, I definitely wore ties. I'm trying to think. I i did have a wristband. God, as you're saying that, I'm like, well, I guess I did have a wristband. And like, yeah what did I use as a belt? But I definitely had like, i was like, when was Avril Lavigne? I think I was like a little bit older.
00:32:28
Speaker
No, but I definitely like would fit. If you put me at an Avril Lavigne concert in that era, I'd be like, oh, you fit right in. yeah But yeah, i definitely wore a tie. had a faux hawk and I had my hair was blue on one side and black on the other yeah for a while.
00:32:42
Speaker
so i had a blue faux hawk and then, yeah, definitely wore white tank tops and suspenders. That was like a thing. Yeah, that was. I will totally send you photos. Okay. Yeah. I love a suspender moment. I love blue raspberry things. um Speaking of blue raspberry things. Yes. um I have a quiz game for you. Oh my God. Yama, are you ready for a game show? Oh my God. I better.
00:33:12
Speaker
I am now. Here we go. i titled this game Flops and Fizzles. oh And it's Candy Campaigns That Failed.
00:33:23
Speaker
Oh, I love this. Okay. Okay. So riffing on the Dollar Adventure thing. All right. Which candy tried to market itself as a meal replacement in the 1970s and flopped super hard?
00:33:37
Speaker
Was it A, Snickers? Was it B, Mars Bar? C, Reese's? Or D, Milky Way? ah I mean, I want to say Snickers because that's their whole campaign now. Like...
00:33:51
Speaker
Yes, that is correct. Is it correct? Okay. Oh my God. So packed with peanuts, Snickers really satisfied, went a little too hard and people were not ready to swap ah that candy bar for lunch. That is amazing. Packed with peanuts. Oh my God. Packed with nuts. Packed. I feel like we have an entire candy themed album going right now. Sugar Shiv. Sugar Shiv. And then yes Blue Jolly. What was your Blue Raspberry? Blue Raspberry. the raspber Anything Blue Raspberry. Blue Raspberry Sour Things. mouth
00:34:31
Speaker
And then packed with nuts. Yeah. yeah It writes itself. It does write itself. Okay, next question. Next up is Lifesavers once released a soda version of their candy. What? But what went wrong?
00:34:45
Speaker
Did it explode? ah Did it taste too salty? Did people think it was medicine? Or did it go flat too quickly? um my God.
00:34:58
Speaker
Oh, I can't believe I don't even hear about this. um I'm going to say
00:35:07
Speaker
that it was too... I'll say it went too flat. It went flat too fast. Oh, my gosh. That's correct. Really? my God.
00:35:18
Speaker
think Yes. Oh my God, you're two for two. The carbonation didn't hold. So when somebody would like open it, it was just like weird syrup water. Gross. you' Not a lifesaver.
00:35:31
Speaker
Which candy brand released green ketchup style colored sweets that confused customers? Was it Skittles, M&Ms, Starburst, or Nerds?
00:35:48
Speaker
Wow. Was it ketchup-like? Like, was it liquidy? Yeah. It was like a spread. Ugh. Nerds, Skittles. What were the other two? M&Ms or Starburst.
00:36:01
Speaker
A spread. I kind of want to say Starburst, but I don't know why That's so gross. What was it? failure and failurelia It was M&M's. What? They were trying to tie in um all the different colored things and then they decided to go with the green.
00:36:23
Speaker
What? You know, like the old thing, like green M&M's make you horny. Yeah. What? The sexy green M&M, the one with the heels. Right. How could I forget?
00:36:34
Speaker
but as a spread? Yeah, super. That is not sexy. Fail. Who thought of that? they failed Somebody who wasn't getting laid.
Musical Journey and Queer Representation
00:36:43
Speaker
um In the nineteen eighty s a chocolate bar failed partly because of its name sounded too unappetizing.
00:36:54
Speaker
What was the but what was the candy bar called? Was it bar none? Choco Blob Summit or Marathon?
00:37:06
Speaker
Man. Ugh. This is tough. Yeah. Oh, my God. Choco Blob is hilarious, though. Yeah. um What was the first one? Bar none? Bar none.
00:37:19
Speaker
Oh, my God.
00:37:23
Speaker
Oh, that's so funny. i mean, i'm I'm going to say Choco Blob just because it's funny, but I don't know. It's not a Choco Blob because that sounds like a poop emoji. It is.
00:37:33
Speaker
belly up ah yeah yeah It is bar none. it is bar none. Oh my God. You were, were leaning that way. i was. you know I'm giving you like half a point. Hey, thanks chili. I'm giving you the half a point for like going out there and then reeling it back in. We knew that you wanted to go with that. We knew. It's true. felt I was signaling with my eyes to both of you. I was like, did I say it like it was the right Yeah.
00:37:59
Speaker
Because that happens. That can happen. That can happen. Yeah. I just, now I've got to think of a thing to make Choco Blob into. Like that's gonna, there's like a Choco Taco. do you guys remember those? Yes. They're delicious. What's her name?
00:38:11
Speaker
Sorry. That was horrible. um yeah
00:38:15
Speaker
Michael, Michael, it's fine. You guys are all growing. We're all mature. We're going to move into this part where Anna talks about her maturity. our term growing We're moving into her college years. We're going to move into all the changes. We kind of were there earlier, right? We were talking about moving to New York being your queer self, meeting ladies at the bar.
00:38:45
Speaker
Was that kind of like you were there, you had Jolly Rancher in the pocket, you were putting some tighty-whities underneath your Lavigne looking outfit. Excuse me. Is that a...
00:38:57
Speaker
Jolly Rancher in your pocket. Yeah. Oh, I kept that Jolly Rancher through all of my, yeah all of my experiences. I sewed it into the ah back pocket of my, the vest I was wearing at all times.
00:39:09
Speaker
Oh yes. A vest. i love I did wear a vest a lot. I did love that vest actually. i Cherished it. But no. When do you think that you like fully started living like your queer life My dreams? My queer dreams? Yeah, your dreams your life. Like a month ago, actually. I'm kidding, I'm getting kidding, No, I think when I was in New York, and I think that whole experience was so transformative, and the person that helped like usher me into the city, because I went from, well, I think in college probably was when I was like, that's such a safe space to experiment in so many ways, and that was when I had my first big gay love, and I'd like...
00:39:50
Speaker
like she was like living in a different country and I went to go live with her and I was just like so in love the first love that first love feeling that you like You'll never get back. But like that, I think was, it was like a running start into gay, into my gay dreams.
00:40:06
Speaker
um But yeah, more in college for sure. And then I think when I got to New York and was just around like other young gay adults figuring their own identities out. And, but I think when being in New York where it's like, you could just be anything you wanted. And beauty of that too is like,
00:40:21
Speaker
For the most part, like you could, you could go out and then you could, you might never see those people again. So like there was some something really amazing in being anonymous and being able to like grow and reinvent yourself and transform. And whoever you were two weeks ago, you didn't necessarily have to continue to be that person if you were outgrowing that skin or whatever. So I think in that way, that was cool. And then, of course, being around other confident gay people who were like, have been out and gay for years and like interacting with those people. And then i think the person that, yeah, ushered me into New York was my beautiful gay friend Bowen, who was just like, oh, like, come to New York. I'll like help you find this place to live, which is a whole there's a thousand amazing stories. But yeah.
00:41:00
Speaker
Bowen, too, just like kind of held my hand into the gay bar and was like, OK, here's the ladies night. Here's where we're going to go. We're going to this bar. And it just kind of like put me in the hands of a bunch of gay people. And I think that being in community with yeah a bunch of gay people for the first time, I was like, oh, able to be more expressive. And also, I think and I was just having this conversation with someone else where we like.
00:41:21
Speaker
this kind of like cycle of of your own identity where like I think when I was in my younger like my mid early 20s and dating or like trying to like really figure out how to like be gay in the world like and was signaling and like there was kind of some coded behavior around like being gay and single and in New York but then over time like how that shifts and I think i thought Well, I was going to say this before, but I think at that time, like a lot of the people I was interacting with at the clubs because at the Claire's, that's not what I meant, but you know what I mean? But like at the gay, the one gay bar that we went to all the time, Metropolitan. Oh my God. um Yeah. But yeah.
00:41:55
Speaker
but I think a lot of... like I was really shy and didn't know how to talk to a lot of women, but I was recognizing that the people that were around a lot, like their whole identity was going out and being a part of these scenes. and that like their whole Their gay identity was their hobby. That was who they were. And I had was into music and all these other things, and so I didn't really know how to... like Kind of intertwine, intertwine. And I didn't also have the energy to like be out just doing that one thing all the time and like spending all this time like presenting very gay. I was just like, I just want to like make out and like, how like anyone else. you Yeah. Did you feel like there was like a a resistance or a fear? Like, what was the risk around?
00:42:36
Speaker
Like, I think sometimes i like I am from Mexican heritage. my My mom's, you know, Mexican Mestizo. My dad's white. Like sometimes it's like, I'm not white enough. I'm not Mexican enough. I'm not gay enough. And other cultures, I'm like too gay.
00:42:51
Speaker
So like at this time in New York, like, what do you feel like was the fear? It sounded like there was something around like, maybe I'm not gay enough or maybe I'm not. Or even like, yeah, maybe like, I don't know how to do this in a way that people are going to not respond favorably because you clearly are who you are. But like, yeah was there any like moments of resistance? Were there any moments of resistance from either you yourself trying to live this life or from people as you were making your way in New York? Or was that anonymity truly so freeing that you didn't even feel that necessarily? Yeah, like the mask of just freedom.
00:43:35
Speaker
Yeah, I definitely... i I, the mask of freedom, I think it was, I know I was like, I'm sorry. um hu yeah um But no, I think the mask of anonymity, ah like I thought about that years later of just yeah what a gift that was to really kind of like, as you're finding your way in the world and within yourself, like really not being pinned to,
00:43:57
Speaker
like a set of like old identities as you were like kind of shedding them and not in a bad way but I think about that too like like the need or how important it is or can be to like leave home to like be kind of like figure out who you are outside of who home or people like the your family knows you to be and you can kind of figure that out and then come back to home or maybe even understand home differently once you've gone away from it But I'm trying to think about the first part of that question. Oh, as far as like, do I feel resistance around being like overtly gay or like visibly not so much resistance, but like you, you talked about like, Hey, this is the New York community. They were all like their identities were more intertwined with our sexuality where you were like, I'm just Anna doing music, doing my thing.
00:44:48
Speaker
um I guess more, can you speak more to that time of identifying your identity, discovering your identity within this like, you know, concrete jungle of people who are like great at somehow translating everything of who they are at once. Into one lyric. Right. and Oh, shit. Right? Yeah. think...
00:45:19
Speaker
i think
00:45:22
Speaker
Oh, I just like had so many thoughts there. But I think um i think I kind of well, I think I guess in the spirit of trying to find community and like where I belonged. And I feel like like a lot of the the queer community that I was around before I found the community that I like eventually belonged to more. But I think in the very beginning, Like nobody, like I think in New York too, nobody has an apartment that you could like invite people over to. So you're always out at bars and like hanging out at bars. And that's like where everyone went. And that's like, I think, yeah, which I think makes for an interesting, and for many reasons. But anyway, yeah so you're always out at bars. But I think the people that I was interfacing with first, like that really was their whole community was to be out and queer. And then I think I was trying to, I was struggling to kind of like fit into
00:46:06
Speaker
like this kind of that schedule almost of like being out and trying to find community and then also like trying to be a part of music. Yeah. Or like trying to figure out my community within music, which unfortunately I think for a long time was, was kind of a more straight community, like just the way that I, who I'd found. And even though that, and I think that was kind of a struggle was these, I couldn't figure out how kind of merge those worlds. And that changed like within that, like many years I was there, but I think for a while I was like, well, how do I,
00:46:35
Speaker
like live how do i be a part of both of these communities and then like yeah i think this fear that i was like you know if you like and then you're trying to meet people and i think that's always like or like that was the kind of the story that you're telling yourself in your 20s of like you know you like date and like try to meet someone and like build a life just want to fall in love in the city but i think that changed thanks carrie bradshaw yeah yeah That's such a theme, though. You look like You identify as little as child, but have to this thing. think that
00:47:06
Speaker
you know you're you're wanting to you're you look like a boy you identify as a little
00:47:17
Speaker
They're sort of like dual, I think somewhere. i I have a book somewhere in my office. I'm looking around. It's so called Shamans of the World. But basically, it's like a lot of queer people are often held to higher regard within societies because they're dual, right? It's like this dual individual. And I think that that's kind of we're always one foot in this world.
00:47:38
Speaker
where it's like heteronormative whatever whatever but we're also one foot in this and your time in new york sounds like a real fun hopefully exploration of like what am you know what's going on here i'm in this space and then i'm in this space i'm in music and i'm it's like probably male dominant music world and then this like fluid nightlife And then, yeah, go ahead. I'm really curious, Anna. Like, I don't know your music. I mean, I'm meeting you for the first time today and it's been absolutely lovely. But like, what kind of music are you playing? I mean, if, especially, I'm i'm really curious about this in terms of like one foot in one place and like music in a straight community
00:48:25
Speaker
like club and gay bar scene in New York City and like that they're not intersecting. So I was, I'm just curious, like what kind of music were you doing in yeah in New York City? That's a great question. And I wish I would have, cause I know that that exists for the record. Like obviously there's so much gay like music, but I, yeah.
00:48:45
Speaker
But i couldn't find it And I think you just kind of fall into groups. But I think the first group, the first band I was in in New York was like a folk punk band. And so we were playing queer spaces. Like there was overlap there as far as like DIY communities that were supporting like that folk punk thing. writing down folk punk right now. I need to know what this sounds like. I want a playlist. I want a playlist. I should give you. Oh, I love that.
00:49:14
Speaker
Okay. Okay, I'll assemble that for you. um But it was really fun. And I think just like, I think more than anything, the queer intersection there was like kind of falling in with all these DIY communities. And we did like tours up and down the coast.
00:49:27
Speaker
And it was cool because people that were often hosting us to stay overnight or hosting those shows because they were like basement shows or backyard shows or yeah like cool community spaces. And of course those, like any kind of marginalized community, like, is like you know, you find each other. But I think like within the DIY scene, there is a lot of queer community.
00:49:44
Speaker
And like people are doing outreach or like very actively involved in their communities and kind of like helping people on the margins or on the fringes or like, you know, I mean marginalized more in like like kind of in an art sense of like playing music that isn't mainstream. And so there was some cool overlap, but even then like, you know, it was like, there was another girl in the band, she was straight. And then, but it was just like, we were kind of this like little packaged thing. It was really fun. i forgot where i was going with this, but that was the first group. And then, but being in all these spaces and then I think,
00:50:15
Speaker
I think too within that community was also like very obviously gay as far as I could tell as far as I knew and then um I think after that I started playing my own music and like kind of poaching members from that scene that we were and a a part of and so But you just like I kind of just started making music. And I was like you know playing gu guitar and singing songs all about girls. But i don't know that that was I don't know now that that was so obvious. But it was like singer-songwriter driven.
00:50:44
Speaker
yeah and then i was and then after that, like I think like the end of my time in New york I was a hired bass player in a band that was like very like Americana, rock and roll-y. And it was like very okay like a heterre hetero. like yeah you know like Beer mugs. I just said. Is that cut or not? i didn't fight yeah Not quite. More like rock and roll, but we like opened for like a second. We opened, we did a tour opening for trampled by turtles. I don't know if you know this band.
00:51:12
Speaker
No, I don't, but they're like now I'm writing it down. Look at that one. But that like those crowds were like, they were amazing rowdy crowds, but it was very much like, like deadhead. I was like, her I don't know to describe They were like, it's like kind of bluegrassy. Jimmy Buffett. Okay. But like, but like thrashy bluegrass, like those guys put on an amazing show. I keep saying words like punk bluegrass and my experience around bluegrass is like lot of overalls, lot of moonshine, lot people. That's a lot of moonshine for sure. feel like Michael, you're just describing like the animatronics like Branson's. Oh my God. Yeah. I was thinking more like Walnut Festival in Kansas outside of Wichita. Yeah. Yeah.
00:51:59
Speaker
Walnut Festival, I gotta write that down. It's a hoot. No, it's so great. It seems, I mean, I love it. It giant. Well, and that's like, walnu first so you kind of, like, the reflection back on, like, the time and the music, I was, um like, wherein do you feel like, I mean, i don't I don't know if this is a silly question or if it's, like, an obvious question, but, like, you, your queerness, the story, the love, the pining, the all the different things around who you're becoming and how does that inform your music?
00:52:33
Speaker
Like, like actually, yeah Well, I think about that. I've thought about that a lot recently with two thoughts, but I think, being gay or like knowing I was gay was such an asset, especially in my early 20s, because I kind of like just gave up on the idea of having a traditional life, like not in a mournful like, oh I've lost this. It was just like never going to happen. Like I it was never going to have a traditional family. i didn't know how I felt about marriage. I still don't know how I feel about marriage. right But just like I knew that I was just like not going to live a normal, quote unquote, normal life. And so I think in some ways I kind of just like opened the door wide to a whole other set of lives that I could have instead of being like, I'm going to like find a partner and then we're going to, you know, not to say that I think that's, you know, there's no negative spin on that. I just was like knew that this very traditional life that I was seeing and like the straighter friends I had was not going to be my experience. So in some ways that was a huge relief to just like,
00:53:27
Speaker
And this was all unconscious. like I don't think I was like very obviously aware of it at the time, but I just like was able to kind of like fall down this road, which has patterned my whole life. like The life I live now is so much rooted in all of these early moments of like who I was around at the time and also being able to slowly work with other musicians who were sustaining themselves as musicians and looking at their lives and being like, oh, this is how you do it and like you know what that entails. So there was that thought. And then as far as the music I was making,
00:53:54
Speaker
Like I think being kind of more leaning towards any kind of queer music or anything that was gay, I think that definitely influenced what i was doing and being around more queer music or choosing, especially in New York where you're you're able to see so many more artists come through town or different performances that kind of were around that. And I'm sure even on like that DIY scene, like there was just so much around that I'm sure I wouldn't have seen otherwise. I think that kind of informed what I was doing.
Aspirations and Rapid-Fire Questions
00:54:21
Speaker
And now I think I'm trying to,
00:54:24
Speaker
Like, I think what I was listening to has definitely informed how I write and the music I make, even though, like, I think I i was like, have I, for most of my bands, it's I've usually been, well, no, I guess there was other gay people in those bands. Sorry, I was like, was I the only gay person? But no, that's not true.
00:54:42
Speaker
There's been other gays around. yeah But I think now what I think about more is, like, trying to make music that I would have wanted to have that I would have wanted to hear when I was younger and kind of needed more of like a queer beacon to be like well I'm not this thing I'm not this thing but like you can and I think we have so many more of those beacons in our lives like it's there's like and I think how we think about being queer in general has shifted so much but I think even like on this we just did these tours this last year and I was opening for like ah maybe in some cities would appear like a more conservative crowd and I would be try to be as vocal as I could. think there's one song that I play that's kind of about growing up gay and about that experience. And ah and I love that song. Thanks. It's not yet. We're going to, we're going to do that in like two weeks, hopefully. so i play my cars right yeah But I would try to talk about that song and also to be like,
00:55:32
Speaker
For that for like the five gay people in the crowd to be like, I see you, I'm with you, and like let's be in community here, even though this is like a pretty traditionally like folk music straight scene. And I think more than anything, and in like the writing of being very like vocal about being gay, and I think especially as we were traveling through the Midwest, we'd try to make a point of being like, this song is about growing up gay. and like Yeah. Blah, blah, blah. I'm a gay person. Like just to, in hopes that someone would come up to the merch table and be like, I'm gay too. And I'd be like, yes, I see You're gay. you know But I think, yeah.
00:56:04
Speaker
That kind of like presence is so important. Like, yes, there are a million queer performers out there. And yes, like, so I'm a writer. And yes, there are a million of like,
00:56:18
Speaker
lesbian novels and gay novels and trans novels. And there's so many more that are coming out, but like, it's so beautiful that like we as creatives can like be this beacon for people and also like invite them in to the community in a way that maybe 5, 10, 15, 1994 version Anna maybe didn't feel ninety ninety four version of anna maybe didn't feel that kind of welcoming in.
00:56:49
Speaker
And i I, I, I effing love that so much about like, the universe that we are building for each other. um And I think it's something very unique to the queer community too. um But Anna, I... Yeah, go for it. yeah point um One thing that's really stood out from... Thank you. One thing that really stood out from what you were just talking about is you said set of lives.
00:57:16
Speaker
And That is so... I think maybe to Shelly's point about like the specific to the queer community is that there are these sets of lives where it's like hidden. There's the life where I was hidden. There was a life where I was figuring shit out. There was like... And at no point was somebody being like... Here's money because you got married. Here's, you know, like the the all the, calm the, the, calm the confirming that like heteronormative society has. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Where it's like, Oh, you came inside someone. Here's a bunch of free shit. So like, there's just, it's just these, so that I think to kind of reiterate on what you were saying, Shelley, um about just, yeah, the the difference and the uniqueness. um And if I, if I could, I'd put a song to it. And I think Shelley's got some. I do. i Michael, are you saying your mind right now? I am reading your mind. Oh God. elme god and Okay. So yeah.
00:58:18
Speaker
Anna, we've put together a little rapid fire questioning for you. man. Since you yeah are a singer songwriter, I want you to just like put on your singer songwriter brain and like your favorite music brain. Okay.
00:58:32
Speaker
And really, I just want knee jerk reactions. yeah So I'm going to ask you question and you get no more than three seconds. Okay. Okay. Okay. so here we're going to do it. First one.
00:58:45
Speaker
What song are you singing in the shower? like and Probably the last song I listened to. I'm like, what did I listen to last? should have been listening to Billy Martin recently. The song Feeling was the last one. Yeah. Okay.
00:58:59
Speaker
Okay. Beautiful. So Billy Martin's Feeling. Okay. Yeah. Second question. What album are you playing lowly during a fun dinner with friends?
00:59:09
Speaker
Oh, God. Great question. sha Um, I was serious thinking about what I actually just played, but I just put on Fox Warren. I can't remember what the name of that record is, but yes whatever came out during the pandemic, but I just put that one on as like a full album in the background of like a hang.
00:59:27
Speaker
that's beautiful Okay. Huh? Yes. Yeah. andy shas yeah i love it Yeah. So good. That's okay. Perfect. Perfect. Next question. You need a good cry. o fooding on my God. Someone just sent me like five songs that were like, if you need a good cry, i check these out. And was like, well, do I ever? Thank you. it read What is it? And by someone, I mean the Internet. of The Internet. I think, oh my God, no, someone sent me like an Adrian Linker song and we're like, if you need a good cry. And I was like, ah I mean, yes, always. but
01:00:01
Speaker
All of them. yeah I think the last time i I, know this is rapid fire, but I'm like, I really did just have such a cry to a song recently. um Actually, the last time I, well, no, I mean, I cry all the time right now because of what's happening my life. But i the the song Madison Cunningham wrote, I think it's um something for Rachel. um I actually heard, what's the name of that song? But it's like she played as the encore for a show in Denver. And I was like going through all this family stuff and aging parent and kind of.
01:00:31
Speaker
Everything in that song just like hit me sideways and like all the lyrics. I think they're actually about her grandmother kind of like aging and into it, but it just like knocked me out. And I, so that was, I think that one could easily quick me, quickly bring me to tears, but there was another song that wasn't the Adrian Laker song that I was like, Oh, this is brutal in the best way. Yeah. In the best way. Isn't it so great when you get really brutal song? Yeah. Oh God. It's so satisfying.
01:00:55
Speaker
Okay. Next question. And this one might be, a different kind of catharsis. This song comes on and you want to stab your ears out.
01:01:08
Speaker
I thought we were going to go sexual. I was like ready for like, I was not ready for stab your ears out. It's like, what song comes on? What song? Oh God. What are you going to sugar shift to?
01:01:24
Speaker
I'm going to sugar after this. Sugar ship. Yeah, I think we need a we need to sugar ship after this. Yeah. Oh, my God. There are songs, to be totally honest, that I'm just like, oh, my God, please, no. I feel like I do actually have a really good answer for this. If I could just not. I know I'm thinking about Jolly Ranchers and a whole bunch of things. Lovely Day. I hate that song.
01:01:46
Speaker
Oh, no shit. I still like that song. Pharrell Williams' Happy Does not make me happy. Anything by the police. Anything by the police. No, thank you. It's so repetitive. Well, we wrote these questions. Yeah. So you're prepared.
01:02:06
Speaker
For my dad, it's um that's the way. Uh-huh. Uh-huh. I like it. ah He does not like it. and he no I do not like it not like this at all. It's been up.
01:02:16
Speaker
Okay, I'm going to give you a pass on that one. You don't have to tell us right now. I'll think about that one because there are certain songs I'd be like, this is like immediate. like Turn it off. Okay, last one.
01:02:28
Speaker
If your life is a montage in a movie, like um it can be a fashion montage. yeah It can be a finding a new guitar montage. You're getting really strong. You're win the Olympics. Yeah. Whatever montage. What is your montage song or music? Whatever. Oh my God. These are great questions. Oh my God.
01:02:49
Speaker
ah Oh, this is hard because there are so many songs. I'm like, well, who who do I want to be in this montage? um Honestly, the song that resonated most, that's, I can't say that. That's not. Yes, you can. Well, the first one that I thought of, Knee Jerk, this is not accurate.
01:03:07
Speaker
to what I would think my montage would be. But like, I keep thinking about Cradle the Pain by Morgan um Nadler, I think it's in. oh No, she's like, it sounds like something. I heard Cradle the Pain and immediately thought of Peaches, fuck the pain away. Oh my God. Maybe that's maybe that's the song.
01:03:25
Speaker
I just saw her in Denver and I was like, oh, Peaches Forever. It was incredible. she And also just like, I'm so talented. 59, like, crowd surfing and just, oh my God, I was like, they gave me such hope.
01:03:38
Speaker
I want that life and I'm also so afraid of that life. Oh my God. yeah. yeah um Okay, you did a great job, Anna. I want to give you, you know what, I just, here we go.
01:03:52
Speaker
Best. Thank you for doing our Rapid Fire. We chose this Rapid Fire specifically for you as a songwriter, but I think we might keep it for like everything. I think you should. i think it's great.
01:04:05
Speaker
Yeah. Oh, that's so tough. Because now I'm like thinking about a dozen other songs and I'm like, well, that would be a good. That could be good. Okay. So speaking of good songs, right? You mentioned earlier how you like wrote a song that or like you were working on songs that you wished that little Anna could have heard.
01:04:29
Speaker
yeah And like, what are some of the sentiments of those lyrics that little Anna needed to hear? I think the the one that I was thinking about that i we played on that last tour that I was like, ah, this is about growing up gay. That's how I talk on stage, apparently. No, I'd be like, this is about growing up gay. But um I think the sentiment there was like kind of like very like a very kind of like not like it gets better, but kind of like hold on. Like you don't even, you don't even know yet what is available to you what's next. And like, I think the refrain, I'm trying to think about a lyric I can pull from that, but um like just getting ready for this next life that you don't even, you can't even see or you don't even understand yet. And, and kind of like just to hold on through all this confusion and what's hard or challenging about,
01:05:23
Speaker
like not understanding, like, I think I'm trying to think about these lyrics. It's hard not to think about them without singing them. So I'm like, how do I get there? he now um But yeah, I think the message being like, you're not alone for one, I think more than anything. And like, I see you, I've got you. And then like, just kind of hang on and get, get through like kind of finding your people. And maybe it's like the point or the,
01:05:52
Speaker
yeah When you're doing that now, like what is, like what does, so as much as it's like a song framed for a younger self, it's also maybe a a song frame for who you are right now. Like what is. Or who you want to be. what is Oh my God. Yeah. Yeah.
01:06:08
Speaker
That's so true. And God, isn't that so true of all of those messages that they're all, they always will be so applicable. And someone else was talking about that too, about songwriting, especially where you like, you write a lyric at one point in your life. And I feel like it will lay, it can later or often has the case, is the case where it becomes true later. And those words that you wrote 10 years ago are kind of this, this, yeah yeah. Yeah. So I think that's a really good point.
01:06:33
Speaker
And that is exactly true. Even if it's not about being queer, just, Yeah, like you're not alone. I think that is maybe one of the bigger messages that... And I think in just talking to other queer people as I've grown up and sharing all of our experiences of growing up and just feeling so other or like being all of our fears and like what you'd said it earlier of like being so worried about like creeping someone out. But like... yeah And I still feel that. I so feel like I still have a hard time like...
01:07:00
Speaker
sometimes because i'm so worried that i'm gonna creep someone up like oh another lesbian i'm talking about like not like just a stranger which is so funny when i think about it in reverse i'm like oh like if someone did this to me like you know i'm trying to think like just be flattered i would be so flattered and be like oh my god they like me they're also gay like oh you know like but it's just i think having grown up with those kind of framework yeah oh my god hi today yeah tell me more Oh, my God. I know. I wish I had a good example of like, because I just had this conversation with someone else where we both were sharing experiences of like, like dating and being scared that we were going to creep someone out.
01:07:37
Speaker
And like, and really the example of creeping someone out was like, you know, like giving them your number or like asking them out or like trying to hold their hand or, you like not like we're not talking about creep, not actually creepy, but the fear of like, you know, anyway, but still working that one out. I forgot where I was going with that one. Oh, no, you're totally. No, but I i love that this, and Michael, I put my hand to my chest when you said like both sides because I immediately thought of Joni Mitchell. Mitchell's both sides. Yeah, I've looked at life from both sides now, right? And so you have had this really beautiful opportunity to like have this freeing childhood that kind of blossomed into this awareness in your 19s, your 20s that has like flourished into your time in New York and then and back in Denver. old
01:08:28
Speaker
Yeah, and it's taken you all over the world. Yeah, truly. What do you see like, future you working towards and this can be like honestly future you working towards blank can be in any context here it can be as future you working towards queer like identity it can be songwriting it can be anything like how do you see yourself moving forward I think, I mean, more specifically, i guess within, so I think more my heart right now is like even navigating kind of some complicated life stuff.
01:09:03
Speaker
um I think still future me, I just want to I think and maybe that's like forever going to be my work of trying to write a better song and, you know, get clarity around, or just like, i think the more like anything you you guys, both as writers, like you're trying to write, um, you know, to a place of like, like you're ever kind of like growing as a, as an artist and trying to like, I can't remember who said it, but like, you know, trying to get to a place where you're
01:09:36
Speaker
evolving as a writer and speaking from a ah place of truth or like kind of being able to identify truth or like, i don't know. Sorry, I got distracted by something. Oh no, you're totally good. which That's the truth guys. um But I, um,
01:09:51
Speaker
But just like kind of evolving as a songwriter, like I want to write a better song and be a better songwriter and kind of continue to grow myself as an artist creatively and keep momentum in that. And recognizing too that like as we grow older, like we'll continue to be creative, like we'll continue writing or making music for many years beyond. Like there seems to be this like timeline, especially...
01:10:12
Speaker
for women in music. And like, I think that's slowly getting debunked as we grow older, but that it's hard to shake that. yeah I know. Thank God. I was like, I want to hear what like, you know, the 50 year old woman or the 60 year old woman has to say about life and not, you know, yeah I want to hear what everyone has to say, but yeah that's like the future me, I think is working forever towards like better songwriting and better music making. And then, yeah, just continuing to try to be like a kind, good, inclusive person.
01:10:37
Speaker
courageous vulnerable person is the yeah is the work so you're doing it and and if somebody wanted to follow you wanted to hear your music hear all of this goodness where would they find you Um, probably Instagram is the most up to date. I also like many of us have an aversion to all things social media, but um Instagram is the still tight as the band. And that's just like where I operate personally as well. Like I couldn't, I can never manage like more than one, ah like a personal account and a band account. like So the band account is just me. Just back to what in one world and the other world. yeah Yeah. Yeah. So that's, yeah, I guess that would be the, yeah, but the still tide is where everything lands and then I plan other projects and do other work and, but that's the main one. That's where
Concluding Reflections and Gratitude
01:11:31
Speaker
it all collects. Our time is coming up and i don't want it to end. And I've had so much fun. had so much fun. Me too. I'm not ready to leave. do this weekly? Let's wrap this up. We can chat for a little bit, but I just wanted to do virtual through the through the sound waves. ah I'm hugging you. And to every listener, I'm hugging you. I'm loving you.
01:11:54
Speaker
Yeah. Thank you so much, Anna, for like just being this beautiful, like handsome light in the world and for sharing your route with us and explaining the watermelon Jolly Rancher. I love it. I love it so much. Your journey's beautiful.
01:12:11
Speaker
And I hope while you're home, you can find that giant. I'm going to find it. I'm going to look for it right now. And if I do, I will. I think it's still there. Like it's probably still edible because knowing that it's like, you know, yeah, yeah sugar it's just sugar.
01:12:26
Speaker
Yeah. no Yeah. but but sugar shav But but I just want to tell everybody out there, like if you enjoyed today's chat, please subscribe to your roots are showing on your favorite podcast situation. We're on Spotify and Apple and all the other places where you get your ear candy. Subscribe so that you can get our episodes as soon as they come out. And right now we're thinking every other week on Mondays. And then follow us on Instagram. Like first off, go ahead and follow Anna.
01:12:58
Speaker
the still time dust and then follow us on instagram and blue sky at roots are showing pod and then tell all your friends to do it too because i'm sure they want to hear about watermelon sharing is carrying let's do it and um also they want to hear about sugar shivs and thrash yes i mean like yeah so so and speaking of musicians also want to send a huge shout out to our Very favorite bestie, Scott Stone, for making our magnificent intro music.
01:13:30
Speaker
You absolutely rule. And folks, until next time, yeah keep it queer. yeah Keep it kind. Keep it coming. Thank you guys so much and have a great, great day. yeah We'll talk to you later. Bye. to Bye. Thanks for having me.
01:14:15
Speaker
Thank you.