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Katherine Yeske Taylor
1.4k Plays9 months ago
Katherine Yeske Taylor began her career as a rock critic in Atlanta in the 1990s, interviewing Georgia musical royalty such as the Indigo Girls, R.E.M., and the Black Crowes while still a teenager. Since then, she has conducted several hundred interviews and contributes regularly to Billboard, Flood, Spin, and American Songwriter, among others. She is a longtime New York City resident and is extremely active in the downtown rock scene.
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Transcript
Podcast Introduction
00:00:01
Speaker
You are listening to something rather than nothing. Creator and host Ken Volante. Editor and producer Peter Bauer.
Introducing Catherine Yeski Taylor
00:00:16
Speaker
Hey everybody, this is something rather than nothing podcast with Ken Vellante and I am very excited to have Catherine Yeski Taylor on the show. Welcome to the podcast and we're going to talk about rock and roll.
00:00:33
Speaker
Thank you so much for having me. It's totally my pleasure. Yeah, yeah, so um You have a penchant for trying to identify badass women in rock I've noticed maybe from maybe
Catherine's Music Journalism Beginnings
00:00:50
Speaker
from a young age. Let's start there early on like how'd you how'd you get going? I read the little story about you doing um
00:00:58
Speaker
your rock interviews all the way back in high school. How did this whole thing start for you? I was always obsessed with music just growing up. Just always obsessed with it. But I didn't have the talent to actually play it myself.
00:01:15
Speaker
at the level you need to do it professionally. I love to sing, I love to play guitar, but at some point I realized I was never going to be more than mediocre no matter how much I rehearsed. But I was a good writer. My English teachers always kind of singled me out and said, you have a real talent for this, you should do something with this.
00:01:38
Speaker
So by the time I was 14, 15 years old, it occurred to me that I should be a music journalist, because then I can combine my two passions. And so that's when I started doing what I wrote about in my introduction to my forthcoming book, where I talk about writing for my high school newspaper, interviewing musicians in Atlanta. They had wanted me to do really boring things like student government meetings. And I said, no way.
00:02:06
Speaker
The kids don't even want to read about that. So I had to kind of swallow my fear and call up management companies and beg them to let me interview their clients. And a lot of people laughed. They thought it was really funny. But
00:02:21
Speaker
quite often they would say yes because they just thought it was funny that some high school kid wanted to do this for their paper. And so when I graduated from high school, it was really obvious I should just continue on to journalism school at the University of Georgia because it's a good journalism school. And also Athens, Georgia, where it's located is one of the big music scenes in the
00:02:46
Speaker
At that time, it was one of the biggest music scenes in the world. Sure. Yeah. And it remains important. So it just seemed like it was just serendipitous that what I wanted to do and where I happened to be.
90s Grunge and Female Rock Icons
00:02:59
Speaker
It was just a really good place for me to do what I wanted to do. Yeah, that's that's really exciting to see to see that. I had
00:03:10
Speaker
I had noticed the Instagram page in the book a few months ago. It was like really super exciting I don't know. I like on my podcast. I've been it's up to 241 episodes and for me like
00:03:28
Speaker
I just love badass women and rock, like really influenced by Joan Jett and Polly Jean Harvey. And I kind of came up like in 90s grunge and thinking about L7, which, you know, which you cover. On the show, I've had Bonnie Bloomgarden of Death Valley Girls, who's like one of the funnest live acts you've ever seen.
Feminism in Music Discussion
00:03:53
Speaker
She's amazing, yeah. Right. And Amanda Palmer, where there's so much going on there about crowdsource and generation of music. And this is all women, non-male genders, and their go through the industry and placing feminism and women in rock and them tangling
00:04:22
Speaker
with that question, you know, are you feminist? Is what you do feminist? What was, what was, what was that like interacting with women, you know, in rock, you know, tackling that question about what the hell they're doing? Cause I felt a little bit attitude being like, I'm just doing my thing. I don't give a shit about all the words and others are being like, yeah, being a women going through the industry, being up on stage, you've done a lot of shit to even get there. So what was that like interacting with that question with your interviewees?
00:04:52
Speaker
Well, it was interesting because when I got the book deal and I started going out and asking women to be in these chapters, there's 20 chapters, each chapter focuses on a specific woman. So I needed 20 different people to do this. And I was a little worried when I started that it would all kind of sound the same. It would get monotonous, like one chapter would sound like the one before, it would sound like the one before.
00:05:21
Speaker
So I was really gratified when I started really getting into these interviews and discovered just how diverse people's opinions were about feminism and being called a feminist.
Evolution of Catherine's Book
00:05:31
Speaker
I mean, I guess I thought if women agreed to do a book called, you know, she's a badass woman in rock shaping feminism, that they would all identify as feminists. And I found out pretty quickly that that was not the case.
00:05:44
Speaker
There were a significant number of women in this book who do not want that label to apply, you know, they don't want it applied to them. And it doesn't mean that they don't want to be advocating for equality for people who are female. They just have a real problem with the way that certain feminist movements have progressed.
00:06:09
Speaker
or what feminists that label the connotation of it now. Some of them didn't like what it's come to mean. So I thought it was really great that it ended up being much more diverse than I originally had planned. And I went back to the publisher and told them, we thought the book was going to be this way, but now it's really shaping up to be this other way. And I was a little worried because they could have come back and said, well, that's not what we
00:06:39
Speaker
hired you to do, that's not what we bought this book for, but they were willing to roll with it with me and kind of follow where the discussions led, which is great. I mean, as a journalist, that's what you're supposed to do. You're supposed to let things unfold and report on those things instead of trying to shape it. So I was really glad that we were able to let the women determine what this book was going to encompass and that it ended up being so broad.
00:07:09
Speaker
Yeah, yeah, I thought that was such a nice piece of it, and not necessarily surprising, but I could see you as the author being like,
00:07:19
Speaker
It's this is the thing that I'm doing, you know, is like to kind of to pull folks in. And wait a second, we get to lay out the whole book title like you had done already. She's a badass women in rock shaping feminism. Yeah. Yeah. So I fought for that title, too, I will say. Good on you. Good on you. Because there there were different publishers who, you know, seemed interested when my literary agent shocked this idea around and
00:07:49
Speaker
So I took meetings with a couple of different publishers besides the one I ended up going with. And they wanted me to change certain things. I already knew I wanted that title. That was one of the first things that I thought of for this project. And so one of the publishers wanted me to change it because they said, well, that might offend some people.
00:08:12
Speaker
But I thought if they're offended by that title, they're definitely not going to like the kind of stories I know I'm going to get for this book. I don't think this is a good fit. So I didn't go with them. And I ended up going with Backbeat because they loved the title. They loved the vision that I had for the book. And like I said, I was lucky enough that they
00:08:35
Speaker
they stuck by me when the vision kind of started evolving. So it definitely turned out to be the right choice going with Baffi.
00:08:43
Speaker
It's really good to hear that. That can always be really difficult in your role in trying to pull this together and having that support. It's super exciting to hear. So we'll bop to some of the bigger conceptual questions. But when's the book out and where might you be showing up, things like that?
Book Release Details
00:09:02
Speaker
The book is out on January 16. It's available for pre-order now, basically everywhere. You'd buy books normally.
00:09:10
Speaker
your local independent bookstore can pre-order it for you. Amazon, Barnes and Noble, Books a Million, all the usual places. All right. Pre-order too. Pre-order. Pre-order is good. Internationally, it will be released in February sometime.
00:09:33
Speaker
Oh, that's so that's all right. So so there we are with the there we are with the book and we'll be talking some more about it. I, you know, as part of the part of the show and thinking about
00:09:46
Speaker
art and philosophy. I wanted to ask you about yourself and viewing yourself as a creator. We talked a little bit about your inclination to be like, I want to talk to the star. I have this piece as part of this podcast.
00:10:08
Speaker
I was thinking about the story of like you in high school but even for me like when I started to show in my 40s I'm like alright so there's some dude in Oregon who's like really excited about all this stuff like I feel kind of the same way being like hey you know and um you know just about uh you know talking talking about art but I want I wanted to hear from you um as far as
00:10:31
Speaker
When you saw yourself as an artist and creator is like within your identity and that's what you want to do? Well, sometimes I wonder if I am. I mean, a journalist, it's not really, I'm more of a conduit than an artist. I'm the one who channels the message from the artist, I think most of the time with articles.
00:10:58
Speaker
The book was different because I had more creative control over it than I do with article in a way, you know, I could determine how I wanted this project to go overall. You know, an article is just so short and you're basically usually talking about, oh, this person put out this new album and it's pretty straightforward. You don't have much room for creativity in a way. So.
00:11:23
Speaker
I
Music Journalism and Cultural Influence
00:11:24
Speaker
actually was really gratified to do this book because it really did feel more like an artistic endeavor of my own instead of me presenting someone else's. Like I said, when I was younger, I thought at first that maybe I could be a musician of some kind before realizing I just didn't have that talent. Sometimes over the years, it's been a little bit of a struggle because I wish I could be more creative.
00:11:52
Speaker
And sometimes it can be frustrating to talk about what everyone else is doing and think to yourself, well, wait, what am I doing? Is what I'm doing considered art or not? So it's an interesting question. Yeah, I enjoyed, you know,
00:12:10
Speaker
you know, looking, looking, reading parts of the book with, you know, a kind of connection. There's like history and Riot Girls, you know, up in Washington and Seattle. And I found like even my own inquiry about like writers and stuff. I'm a big Kathy Acker fan, writer Kathy Acker.
00:12:32
Speaker
and um just you know finding books and and reading about like you know it's music but it's also a political scene it's also shock art it's also queer art and like all this stuff uh going on so like one of the pieces i like um you know when you see what the music or your presentation of it's like popping into a scene like that there's a cultural capture of like what's going on and what somebody's doing and sometimes when i interview like
00:13:01
Speaker
So folks are like are immersed in the scene like you had mentioned Athens, Georgia and you think REM and be 52s and you think all that type of stuff like capturing that type of vibe and that's what I love like as part of like what you do and that there is like what is going on here like literary like what are people painting and
00:13:20
Speaker
Like uh, like what are women doing in this town to say like fuck you to like this horseshit like this community like this kind of non-ex you know this kind of exclusivity all that all that type of things so I love that um, I love that atmosphere that comes for you from your writing and that's like I
00:13:43
Speaker
with journalism and must be tough and like saying like, well, I'm conveying this and you're not supposed to be so creative, but there's so much creativity in there and displaying it. I talked a little bit there. I want to ask you one of the big questions. I want to ask you one of the big questions. Maybe you can bop into it. What is art?
Revealing Artist Interviews
00:14:06
Speaker
To me, art is what separates human beings from everything else in this world.
00:14:13
Speaker
animals, plants, other living beings don't use art in the way that we do. They're all about survival. We are the only beings that create something that objectively doesn't really have any role in survival. I mean, you can argue that art is necessary for our survival, but I'm saying every other living
00:14:42
Speaker
creature or entity on this planet is actively involved with just trying to survive. We have the luxury of using art to explore the good and the bad about humanity. Celebrate the best things and shine a light on the bad things that need to be changed. No other entity does that. In my opinion, I think it's the very definition of what makes us
00:15:14
Speaker
uniquely human. Yeah. Yeah. I really appreciate that. Tell me about, tell me about, uh, obviously, um, you know, I expressed for myself, uh, you know, badass, uh, female musicians and, and the energy and talent. Tell me about yourself, like, you know, cause there's gotta be fan stuff in here and be like tapping into that energy. Like,
00:15:38
Speaker
within this book, we were like surprised and be like, holy shit, I didn't realize the scope of what somebody was doing or like, where were you just like, kind of surprised about what you heard about your subject? Well, I mean, as a journalist, I try not to be surprised. Going into a rock interview as well. I mean, I try to be
00:16:05
Speaker
so meticulous with my research that I won't be surprised. That's the goal. It's kind of like when you hear a trial attorney say, you should never ask questions or the answer to. It's kind of like that. I try to ask questions where much of the time I feel like I know what they're going to say. I don't know how they're going to say it, but I have read up enough about somebody that
00:16:34
Speaker
have some idea of what, you know, where they're coming from. So there weren't really too many surprises in this book in that way, because I had researched people's careers. But what did surprise me was there are a couple of women who said, you know, I've never talked about this publicly before. Yeah. There were a couple of times where they said, and I tried to note that in the book when they did that, that we had
00:17:02
Speaker
I took it as a compliment that they felt comfortable enough with me as an interviewer for them to say like, I'm going to tell you about this really difficult and in one case pretty horrific thing that happened that they've never let the world in on before. So that did surprise me when they kind of had those revelations and there's no way I could have known that was coming. And I guess I was a little bit
00:17:30
Speaker
surprised at just how diverse the opinions were about feminism and being called a feminist. There really are some polar opposite opinions in there and it's kind of amusing to me to see that some people say oh well I think this way and I can't imagine anyone thinking any other way and then the very next interview I do someone would say that
00:17:52
Speaker
opposite thing and say, well, I can't imagine anyone thinking differently than this. And so I'm a little curious to hear from all these women after they finally get to read this book, what they think when they read each other's chapters, because I didn't let anybody see each other's chapters. Some people asked me and I said no, because I didn't want people influencing each other's input on this.
00:18:16
Speaker
Yeah, which makes you excited for the release because it's a distinct thing that you created.
Curiosity in Journalism
00:18:23
Speaker
That's so cool. Another thing that really I will say that's kind of similar to that is that a lot of women, you might have noticed, well, not a lot, but there's several instances where one woman in the book will cite another woman in the book as an influence and they don't
00:18:42
Speaker
know that that other woman's going to be in this book, you know, or they don't know the woman that's being talked about doesn't know that someone said that. So I think it might be really cool to have people realize that, you know, someone they cited as a hero is in the book and someone who's been given that compliment to see that people are saying that about them. So I think that's really cool.
00:19:07
Speaker
It makes for an exciting 2024, and I love talking about upcoming books. Yeah, I think I might have mentioned to you with Amanda Palmer, and related to the podcast, I had read her book, The Art of Asking, and I'm a philosopher by training.
00:19:32
Speaker
and extremely curious and love to find out and ask questions kind of unabashedly. And I think reading that book,
00:19:43
Speaker
was like so important to me just as far as like it made such an impression on me like where she would you know be that kind of standing statue in like Boston like square and just stand there as performance art and it's like when somebody's doing when you see artists doing something that's so like
00:20:03
Speaker
how the hell do you do that? How do you stay there? How do you take insults as a woman? How to deal with that shit? And she just does it straight up like that. She's fearless. Earning your chops, right? And then the art of asking was that where she would ask for help, she would ask for people to come onto a track, she would ask for support from her fans, she would ask other artists to do things. And I was like,
00:20:30
Speaker
You know that that's the vibe like that's the vibe because so many of us I think on the question and for you you must see this all the time where you're around people who are curious but they don't like go up and say you know not try to be rude and ask you know those type of questions but like if you're curious ask sometimes people are like yeah like I've never been asked that and then you're like really I've been thinking about your answer that for and um
00:20:59
Speaker
That's one of the best things about being a journalist is I have kind of free rein to ask almost anything. I mean, you know, I try to be respectful and not overstep boundaries, but I mean, that's one of the great things about being a writer like this is that it gives me a chance to talk to people. I would have no
00:21:17
Speaker
way to talk to otherwise and really kind of pick their brain about things. And that's one of the reasons I wanted to be a music journalist in the first place is because, you know, I can't do what they do myself. So I'm endlessly curious to find out how they create these sounds that end up impacting other people so strongly. And, you know, how is it that you made this song that's the soundtrack to someone's life? You know, how is it that you actually do this? And I find that fascinating.
Navigating Feminism in Music
00:21:47
Speaker
Yeah, I had a fascinating conversation by an artist, singer, performer, Gloom, G-L-U-M-E, and quickly she described to me, she's been, she was a child actor, been in entertainment, so she was five or six. She was like runner up for Hannah Montana, like super competitive, like within that type of mold.
00:22:15
Speaker
She releases her own stuff right now, but she was talking about her record label creation and that she had created an OnlyFans and started making a lot of money doing that way.
00:22:29
Speaker
She created her own record label, Playgirl Records, and wanted to kind of redistribute and redirect the contract by not owning like the masters for the artist and like having this graded level. And it was just really, really interesting to think about questions which I saw in your book too of subversion, right? Of participation and subversion, say with
00:22:52
Speaker
sexuality with women, like owning it or being subjected to the male gaze. I can't say I know for sure, but why there's complications sometimes, whether you are taking the thing that you have, subverting it and redirecting it in some radical way,
00:23:11
Speaker
or you're participating in like lazy male patriarchy that type of thing and it's a really fascinating area because it's it's it's complicated because i was it is complicated i was following her i was following her track i'm gonna be like she was like this is the way i'm gonna fucking turn it around and like i'm like you know um
00:23:32
Speaker
yeah so um did you find as far as within the feminism what's what's with the reactions or maybe on definitions of like what feminism because i remember comments in there saying like uh you could see that artists would be uh female artists would be feminists but they're like you know like i i love guys too right like i love guys throughout my life like i i feel sometimes there's too much
00:23:57
Speaker
too much of that is like bringing males back in. Was it around the definition of feminism? You allowed people to kind of play around and talk about their interaction with what they think it is and whether they are? Yeah, I think it was more that the women who do not embrace that label just feel like it's taken on a connotation that's no longer in keeping with the original intended spirit of the definition of that word.
00:24:27
Speaker
Um, or they just disagree with the methods that some of the more prominent feminists have used. And so they don't want to align themselves with them. Uh, and then of course, on the other side, there are women who would say, you know, I'm a dyed in the wool feminist and I'm proud of it. You know, so it's really interesting to see the kind of life experiences that people have had.
00:24:54
Speaker
that led them to these different conclusions. It seems like the women who, and just to generalize, the women who don't like that label had some fairly bad experiences with male, strong male figures in their life at an early age, and it kind of turned them off. Dealing with men and positions of power in general, and then that in turn
00:25:23
Speaker
makes them not want to take on any label. You know, that was kind of the consensus of the people who don't want to be called a feminist. They, for the most part, do not want to be called anything. That was their stance. So you could see how people arrived at their conclusions because once in a while, you know, someone would say something in an interview and, you know, it would be in opposition to my own personal views, which is fine. I mean,
00:25:52
Speaker
I'm not there to editorialize, I'm there as a conduit, but it would prompt me to ask follow-up questions. Why do you think that? And really try to understand where they were coming from. And there were some women, I would probably never agree with some of the things they said, but at least I understand why they said it. I can understand why that would be their position given the life they led.
00:26:17
Speaker
And I hope that's what readers will also come away from this book thinking because there's no way everyone's going to agree with everyone in this book because there's opposing opinions expressed in it. It's impossible for anyone to agree with everything in it because there's just too much diversity in all the different things expressed. But at least I hope that it makes people
00:26:43
Speaker
Be willing to be open-minded and say, well, I still don't agree with you, but I respect your right to think that way. Well, I love the engagement and the work that you do. And it is exciting for me to be able to.
00:26:57
Speaker
connect with you as this is coming out here and see your Instagram, KYT and NYC doing badass women in rock. It's a great vibe to it. And I'm really looking forward to everybody being able to read the book and see the wonderful photography and design. Yeah. People really came through with photos. I let all the women choose their own photos.
00:27:22
Speaker
wonderful and beautiful photography folks. Some people really startled me with what they chose.
00:27:33
Speaker
Yeah, so I think it's great because it really expresses the different personalities in there. You can really pick up just from the photo what kind of chapter it's going to be in a way. Yeah, yeah. So fun, so fun. Catherine, what's the role of art? We talked about what art is and I'm thinking we both
00:27:56
Speaker
We both lose our mind over rock and roll and women playing it. But speaking about art or however you want to approach it, what's its role? I mean, what's it supposed to be doing for us? Well, it's like I said a minute ago where I really believe that it's meant to help us celebrate the best things about being humans. There's nothing more joyful than a song you love or a movie you love or any piece of art.
00:28:25
Speaker
a painting that brings you joy. And then it also is a way to shine light on the darker aspects of being human and perhaps make it less painful. When you're going through a really rough time and you put on a sad song that somehow makes you feel better because you feel less alone because someone is expressing
00:28:47
Speaker
what you're feeling in a way that you might not be able to say yourself.
Art, Culture, and Judgment
00:28:52
Speaker
I mean we've all had that experience of somebody in song lyrics or a poem or a monologue in a movie or something like that where somebody says something that you might have always felt and you just have never been able to perfectly express it the way they just did.
00:29:10
Speaker
And by doing that, I feel like it opens up a dialogue in a way that is really constructive. If we can approach things that are painful through art, it might open up a discussion that otherwise might be impossible to bring up. And I think Amanda Palmer says what I just said, although more eloquently in her chapter. She talked about that a lot, about how she
00:29:39
Speaker
discusses really difficult things in her song lyrics, you know, some really taboo subjects, but she does it so that other people who have gone through these really sometimes horrific things won't feel so alone. And it also forces the greater culture to have to contend with and confront these topics. And so I think that's really the greatest purpose of art, you know, two different, it's like a two-pronged thing. It celebrates the best and helps
00:30:09
Speaker
uh maybe mitigate the worst yeah i um there's there's something about this too and it isn't just like for me i just want to mention like even in in the performance and some of the space and some of the challenge that comes about it's not necessarily just with
00:30:25
Speaker
With artists say I think sometimes when women are are on stage and say things I saw Amanda Palmer in her last tour and she's talked a bit about this where she Talked about her experience of sexual assault from the stage and there were women in the audience After she said that she had forgiven him
00:30:44
Speaker
who were furious with her. And I tell you, I mean, I could feel it in my skin right now as a good thing, as a good thing, unmanageable thing of a back and forth. And Amanda saying, no, this is my journey and I understand you. And so it's really like it was in that place. And I saw a punk band open up for,
00:31:12
Speaker
Blackbell Eagle Scout, who I've featured on my podcast in Portland. And I loved it because this punk band came in, and just as the challenge, they were talking about, let's say, sex industry stuff, the way it is in Portland, sex work.
00:31:31
Speaker
And they were like, that's fucking disgusting. It's still male trade. And it was like, whoa, like you're popping into Portland and it's it's provocative. That's what a punk band is going to do. And I was like, everybody's like, I I'm not sure whether to clap. And I'm like, that's right. It's a punk band. Do you feel uncomfortable right now? And so sometimes like with these artists, it isn't just a curious chapter for you. It's like.
00:31:59
Speaker
That's the performance. It's in there. Yeah. Well, I think that's, I think you're right. I think art can really be good about that to force people to realize that there are people out there who are going to have opinions that are completely opposed to your own. And, um, they have reasons for that. And perhaps people should just be allowed to have those opinions and, and, and,
00:32:26
Speaker
and not be attacked for it. In the chapter about Katherine Popper, who is a really amazing bass player who's worked with everyone from Jesse Mallon to Brian Fallon to playing at Broadway shows, she talked in her chapter about working with Ryan Adams, who was very controversial now for what he went through.
00:32:54
Speaker
I don't know if you remember a few years ago, but he got in quite a bit of trouble for basically sexually harassing a number of women and doing things like that. And so when that came out,
00:33:08
Speaker
Catherine talked about how people came after her wanting her opinion and wanting her to kind of pile on with everyone else and say that he's a monster. And she said, I can't do that. That, that wasn't my experience when I worked with him. And then she talks in the chapter about how people got so angry with her because she wasn't
00:33:30
Speaker
aligning herself with all the other women and getting on that kind of bandwagon. But she said, I'm allowed to have my own opinion about this. Don't tell me how to feel. And so it's interesting because
00:33:46
Speaker
These are important things. I mean, we can't let people be sexual predators, of course. You want solidarity, but you can't say this was your experience. Yeah, you can't just expect everybody to immediately get on board with what you say.
00:34:05
Speaker
It's way more gray than people want to believe sometimes was her point. Everybody wants to have it be black and white. Everything is really clear cut. And that's just not the way life works always. She said when she worked with him, it was some of the best years of her life.
00:34:30
Speaker
than it was some of the worst. And so she's very conflicted about her experience with him as far as her own experience with him, but he never did the things that he's accused of to her or in front of her. So she has a very different approach to that whole situation. And she just faced so much backlash for that. So it's really interesting to hear what happens to people when they
00:34:59
Speaker
like Amanda, like these artists who choose to take a stand for their own reasons and really stick with it no matter how much blowback they get. And then the question becomes for other people.
00:35:17
Speaker
At what point do we agree that we're going to just let them have that opinion? Or is there a certain point where we do have to say, no, it's unacceptable for anyone to take that kind of stance? And that kind of debate might be good for us to have in these days when we have such a cancel culture where someone's doing
00:35:34
Speaker
something people disagree with. There's just not even really any discussion anymore. It's just people saying, well, you're out, you're done. It's a public, it's a quick public court and there are no, there are no, I mean, for better, for worse, it's not a like, it's not, it's not a judicial process. It is a public process. I mean, I understand, you know, someone's really been terrible. Why you'd want to just
00:35:58
Speaker
kind of make them disappear. But on the other hand, it robs us of the opportunity to really discuss what happened and have a thoughtful conversation about it and accept that there's nobody who's a total monster. There's nobody who's a total angel. And let's figure out why this happened. And I think there's just a lot of room for growth and having these really uncomfortable conversations.
00:36:24
Speaker
Yeah. Well, obviously the book can help on a lot of that.
Personal Connections with REM
00:36:32
Speaker
Part of the thing is the performance and the artists themselves bringing these questions to the fore. Hey, I have to ask you this. You mentioned Athens and everything. I'm a REM freak. How much do you love REM? Oh, I adore them. I would say they're my favorite band, yes.
00:36:54
Speaker
I've had occasion to interview three of the four and they've been lovely. Michael Stipe is the only one I haven't interviewed, but I had dinner with him once with a bunch of, there's about five of us that went out to dinner one night and that was a real trip. I was 19 at the time and it kind of blew my mind that somebody who I adored that much
00:37:22
Speaker
for years was suddenly sitting there at the table with me having a conversation. It was really great. Those guys are all really lovely. They're all, they're very approachable. You never hear stories about them being snobby with fans or anything. So I think they're good role models for other artists in terms of showing that you can get really huge as an artist and still
00:37:51
Speaker
be a decent human being. Oh, it was absolutely clear. I mean, I didn't as a Peter Buck. I was in Portland and that's right. He lives there, right? Yeah, this is beautiful. It's closed now. They're relocating it, but it's called the Dougford Lounge.
00:38:08
Speaker
in Portland, it was my favorite music venue. It's like you're at the Roadhouse, you're sliced into Twin Peaks kind of type of thing. And he played, I tell you, I'll never forget it, Peter Buck was there and there's this weird super group, I think they call themselves Slow Jazz, and it was like Robert Fripp.
00:38:30
Speaker
Peter Buck, somebody from Pearl Jam. It was this experimental jazz supergroup that showed up and I happened to be there at that time. But even after the show, I noticed with Peter, just very approachable, wanted to talk about music and all that type of thing.
Capturing Artists' Stories
00:38:51
Speaker
I just saw a couple posts you had with REM and I've been in this weird space where I get so tired people talking shit about REM lazily that I don't know. I'm a metal guy, so I run into weird opinions about REM and stuff like that.
00:39:12
Speaker
I think they're so absolutely amazing, and there's a lot of loose talk around REM. Well, I think it's a good thing where when something gets really popular, it then becomes popular to kind of slag it. And also, I like metal too. I like all different kinds of music, and I think it's okay to have all these different things in my playlist. But I know there are people who are more purest than that.
00:39:40
Speaker
Well, and they did the song, what's the frequency count? So they wrote a song for me too. So like, I mean, what's that happened? I'm like, oh, you did it for me. You really did it for me. At least the way it works in my head. Hey, jumping back over to the book, what cities are you gonna bop around with regards to the book and the book tour?
00:40:06
Speaker
Well, I'm sticking mostly in the East, Eastern States, just because I have a publisher that's great, but small, and so they can't send me on some grand 50 city tour. So if you want to see me, you're going to have to come to Atlanta on January 20th at Kerris Books. I'm going to be doing a discussion with the director of the Y'all Rock Camp, which is kind of like a school of rock type of camp. Awesome. Awesome. Yeah. So we're going to get the next generation of rockers
00:40:36
Speaker
And so I'm really looking forward to that. That's pretty exciting. And then on February 20th, I have a signing at the Indie Fringe Theater in Indianapolis. I have signings coming up in March in Princeton, New Jersey, Oldwick, New Jersey, Narberis, Pennsylvania, Philadelphia.
00:41:04
Speaker
Then may I have something in Danbury, Connecticut? There's more to come. I'm still kind of putting stuff together. But those are the ones that I have on deck right now. And I always post on my Instagram and Facebook about these things, too. So you can always check that. Yeah, keep posting away. There's people like me wearing things like that. There's such great content, such great photo stories. Yeah, try to post things like every other day at least.
00:41:33
Speaker
I always, in addition to the book stuff, I still write for a bunch of magazines. So I'm always posting interviews with people. I actually have an interview with Mike Mills. I'm gonna post pretty soon, Mike Mills of REM. So yeah, so I do try to stay busy with the article writing. It's not just the book stuff on my social media.
00:41:58
Speaker
Yeah, so everybody, you're getting a hint. Just be in proximity online to Catherine, Jesky, Taylor, and then get some of this stuff if you're digging on this. A big philosophical question. I don't know what the hell you want to do with it. You can badass it if you want the whatever. But why is there something rather than nothing? How boring would it be the other way around? I agree with you. I like the somethings. I like the somethings.
00:42:28
Speaker
Catherine, who do you still want to talk to? Well, I would like to talk to Michael Stipe just because he's the last member of REM. Michael, Michael. I would like to talk to him just because then I'll have the complete set. All four. That would be great. I would really like to talk to Chrissy Hein some day.
00:42:57
Speaker
I tried to get her for this book, but her opinion is that it shouldn't make a difference whether someone's male or female to the point where she thinks it's just a non-issue and doesn't even want to discuss it. That's a vantage point. I would like to get her. I've been lucky though. Many of the people I really adore, I've been able to talk to. I feel really lucky that
00:43:25
Speaker
several people whose work has meant a lot to me over the years, I've been able to interview and interact with on a professional level like that. And so I feel really lucky.
Catherine's Online Presence
00:43:38
Speaker
Yeah, it's a special thing. When I've done the interviews with musical guests that I've done, there's usually, there's a narrative in my head about why, like I fill out the story. I just had that with Pieda Brown,
00:43:53
Speaker
Oh yeah. I listened to that one. She seems really great. Thank you. Yeah. But just having seniors, like there's a randomness in my back history, you know, seeing her dad play out in the field of Iowa when my kids were young and it's summertime in the Midwest, just like all this type of stuff and seeing her at different places and then like arriving and like kind of connecting back to
00:44:20
Speaker
Well, just listen to beautiful music, you know, for one, but like around the things that I was chatting with you about, like that atmosphere where the sounds come from or where you're experiencing them. So I really appreciate all the stuff you create and these wonderful interviews. There's a big piece, you know, my show about two out of three episodes are non-male guests. And I think, you know,
00:44:49
Speaker
I have a lot of female artists. I learn so much. I'm so interested in that way. And I don't have an explanation. I don't need performance. I don't have any other thing. I'm just that interested in the power of it.
00:45:08
Speaker
Amanda Palmer challenge to think so. I studied philosophy. So she studied philosophy. It's just, it's just, it's like uncomfortable questions. Like, like when you ask, like, why is there something relevant rather than nothing? Or what's the purpose of life? Sometimes people are like, fuck you. Like, I don't know. Like, I'm like, you know, like, you know, philosophers can be annoyed, just like, you know, rock people are people asking questions. You could, but it's provocative. And, um,
00:45:34
Speaker
Where do people find all the stuff from you, Catherine, that you want them to find? Like website, we mentioned pre-ordering the book, Instagram. I want to make sure I don't miss something for folks to support you and what you're doing. Well, thank you. Instagram KYT in NYC is where you can find me. And then Facebook is Catherine Jeske Taylor, music journalist. I have a page on there.
00:46:03
Speaker
I have a link tree, like it has all my most recent articles on it. And if you googled Katharine Esky Taylor, you'll find that. Along with a whole bunch of my articles pop up just in general across the web. If you Google, it's K-A-T-H-E-R-I-N-E and then Y-E-S-K-E and then Taylor spelled the usual way. So I'm not hard to find.
00:46:31
Speaker
Yeah, you can pre-order the book wherever you buy books.
Role of Male Allies in Feminism
00:46:36
Speaker
You can have your local independent bookstore order it for you if they don't already have it coming and Amazon and the usual places. One thing I want to touch on that, I wanted to thank you for being a good ally to Women in Rock, but I wanted to point out that one through line
00:46:59
Speaker
in this book, there's so much that people disagreed on. But one thing that everybody did without me prompting them was that they each mentioned at least one story of a man who did something significant to help them. And so I wanted to point that out that this is not some kind of male bashing book. It's not a man hating thing.
00:47:24
Speaker
It very clearly is women saying, well, I don't like it when men have treated me this way, but men in general, I don't have a problem with. And by the way, here's a bunch of examples of men who are really helpful. So thank you for being one of those men who helps.
Influence of Ken's Mother on Music Views
00:47:40
Speaker
Thank you for saying that. I really appreciate it. And I want to tell you something, because it goes back to my mom, and I'm a mama's boy.
00:47:51
Speaker
Good. No, I mean seriously. So I want to tell you something. A lot of people don't know this. My mom's the quiet, 5'1", quiet, sweetest woman in the entire world. But I want to tell you something. When it came to the important things in life,
00:48:08
Speaker
She would have conversations and ask things of me when I was a young boy that did not happen in 1980s America with others. My mom would
00:48:23
Speaker
point out horseshit quietly to me. There was a 60 Minutes interview, and it was covered in natural childbirth. Rather than rushing the boy over, she would describe and say, I'm going to have my sisters on the way. I'm going to have a natural childbirth. My mom was just like,
00:48:45
Speaker
She was rad. She talked about music and women who stuck up. She she would she would not listen to and critique my dad if there was a male batterer, active male batterer, like in music or stuff like that. She would hear the word the F word applied to queer or gay folks in a song.
00:49:10
Speaker
and be upset. Nobody would know this. It was conversations she had with me. It's like, that's bullshit, that's bullshit. And it comes in so many different ways. My mom just disrupted stuff in the quietest, quietest way with me and my brother.
Catherine's Book Tour and Support
00:49:29
Speaker
you know, there'd be a photo or a video of men kissing on 80s or some sort of shock thing on like some type of thing. She's like, how's that? Is that making me feel that so, you know, that's an okay thing. I'd be like, that's weird. I'd never seen that before. Right. So it wasn't a conversation where I was like, yeah, that's totally fine. I'm a 10 year old kid. Yeah. You know, so when she was shaping you and that's great because you don't need to be like someone who's like marching down the street yelling things you can have
00:49:58
Speaker
a lot of impact quietly in the way she did, too. I mean, there's more than one way to be an activist. There is. There is an organizing. I thank you. Thank you. Thank you for your words, because for me, women artists and baddest women artists
00:50:19
Speaker
helped me to create the show and helped me build the show amongst others. But your mom sounds like a badass. She is! And Al can tell everybody on this because it's going to be after Christmas and we're going to be sharing a secret that I am going to be traveling out and will have surprise by the time this year. My mom
00:50:39
Speaker
at early like 6 a.m. on Christmas morning and my dad as well. This is around the holidays. It's so great. And hopefully I'll send you a message, Catherine. I'm going to be bumping around New York City and we can maybe chat some more badass women in rock and badass journalists in rock. Cool. Well, yeah. So that sounds really, that's so nice that you're doing that for that.
00:51:08
Speaker
Yeah, yeah, it's gonna be a great time. So, thank you, Catherine. Hey, everybody, pre-order the book or spread the word about the book nowadays. If you pre-order something or you plop your money down or you card down or whatever you can early on, it really helps authors and creators.
00:51:29
Speaker
show that they have commitment from their audience in this day and age and so anything you know you can do to kind of support Catherine's work do it and it really makes a big difference and and hey I'm thinking let's there's a lot of music fans and music is badass on the west coast too so maybe we can try some like
00:51:52
Speaker
a crowd support to- Hey, you never know. That's why I'm going to Indianapolis because they felt so strongly about the book that they found sponsors who are bringing me there. Well, in Indianapolis- Which I really appreciate. I mean, that's amazing that they're doing that. That's incredible. For me, being a huge Kurt Vonnegut fan, Indianapolis sounds
00:52:17
Speaker
not only wonderful, but more than wonderful. I'm a huge Vonnegut fan also, so I'm excited that this opera came through, but it made me feel good because it shows me that this book might be of interest to people in all different kinds of places, not just New York and LA. When you create something like this and you hope it's well-rounded, you really want it to appeal to a broad spectrum of people, so I'm glad to see that
00:52:45
Speaker
I'm getting a good response around the country, not just in isolated pockets. Yeah. Yeah. All right. The, uh, big 20, 24 Catherine Yaski Taylor, uh, and, uh, uh, best of luck. And, uh, I'm sure we'll be able to, um, uh, to wrap around and kick it a little bit about some rock and roll and, um,
00:53:09
Speaker
You know, just really excited to talk about art and to talk about music and the great city of New York City. And I know I got to see that Manet Dega exhibit out there too that's going on. So best of luck and hope to chat or see what you soon or maybe we can just do a follow up episode on Vonnegut Breakfast of Champions Galapagos.
00:53:36
Speaker
Slaughterhouse Five, Montana Wild Hack, and all of that. Great. Thanks, Catherine. Thank you so much. Appreciate it. This is something rather than nothing.
00:54:00
Speaker
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00:54:21
Speaker
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00:54:49
Speaker
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