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S3: E1: Gabbi Armstrong - The Grassroots Revolution
12 Plays1 hour ago
Ten years ago, The Pink Elephants Support Network wasn’t born in a corporate boardroom—it started over a single, pivotal cup of coffee between co-founders Sam and Gabbi. Brought together by a shared understanding of reproductive trauma and loss, they recognised a devastatingly ignored systemic void in the Australian healthcare model.
In this episode, Sam sits down with co-founder Gabbi to look back on a decade of advocacy, validation, and system change. Gabbi opens up about the raw power of peer support, the early days of building a registered charity from the ground up, and how they turned big-picture visions into the evidence-based emotional frameworks that protect thousands of Australian families today.
Key Takeaways From This Episode:
- The Power of "You are not alone": How a shared experience of loss sparked a movement to ensure no one has to experience the journey of early pregnancy loss alone.
- From The Kitchen Table: A look behind the scenes at how Gabbi helped translated grassroots community needs into structured, empathetic, and evidence-based support resources.
- The Perfect Harmony: How Sam’s visionary, media-ready energy paired with Gabbi’s methodical, structural precision to build an unshakeable foundation.
- A Vision for the Future: Gabbi’s hope for the next decade—eliminating the clinical coldness of lonely hospital releases and ensuring that postcode or location never dictates the quality of care.
Help us Celebrate 10 Years & Donate: Help us show up for the next decade. Your donation ensures we can continue providing a circle of support for families impacted by early pregnancy loss. Donate here.
EARLY PREGNANCY LOSS SUPPORT
If you or someone you know has experienced miscarriage or early pregnancy loss, please know you are not alone. Connect with our services:
- Emotional support resources
- Live Chat with Peer Support
- Online Communities
- Pregnancy Loss helpline delivered by PANDA
- Circle of support
- Follow @pinkelephantssupport on instagram.
- For crisis support, please call Lifeline - 13 11 14.
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Transcript
Season Three Introduction
00:00:05
Speaker
Welcome to season three of the Miscarriage
Meet Gabby from Pink Elephants
00:00:08
Speaker
Rebellion. Today I have an incredibly special guest who I've really, really had to bribe to come on the podcast.
Origins of Pink Elephants
00:00:16
Speaker
Gabby is the co-founder of Pink Elephants. Gabby, you will have heard the story of us starting Pink Elephants over a coffee ah decade ago.
00:00:27
Speaker
And actually serendipitously, and I can't say that word, but this week we realized it's actually 10 years since I reached out to you and asked for that first coffee when I was struggling with my second loss and was toying around with the idea of starting something. So it feels really timely to sit down today together and have this conversation and talk about the early days of Pink Elephants, our vision, what we wanted to create.
00:00:55
Speaker
the peer support that you offered me that I didn't know it was peer support at the time because we didn't even have that language and just the beginnings and what we hoped for and yeah if we'll start there so then you want to kind of introduce yourself a little bit to the listeners and talk about who you are and how you got involved with Pink Elephants.
Gabby's Personal IVF Journey
00:01:12
Speaker
Well I'm Gabby and Sam and I met 10 years ago Which I, you know, I knew that this year was 10 years, but yeah, I didn't realise it was this week. that was It's just, yeah, incredible.
00:01:26
Speaker
um So I had um had ah gone through a few years of IVF um and had my two beautiful boys after all of that. I did have one miscarriage in between, but was very blessed to have my two boys. Well, I actually have an older boy as well, but he wasn't part of that journey. He was from several years
Stigma and Awareness of Miscarriage
00:01:53
Speaker
ago. But um I had been a member of a couple of online groups that supported
00:02:00
Speaker
me will were a wealth of support for anyone that was you know doing IVF and having losses or succeeding with having living children not succeeding adopting there was a wide range of people so I mean I felt lucky in that regard that I wasn't completely alone going through what I went through but um but the yeah miscarriage I think was still very
00:02:31
Speaker
don't unknown is the right word, but certainly not as widely known
Seeking Support After Loss
00:02:36
Speaker
or talked about as it is now. um But yeah, and then I got a message in my inbox from you.
00:02:46
Speaker
And that was the beginning of everything. I mean, look, I'm the sort of person um to
00:02:56
Speaker
help anyone help anyone and particularly you know the trying to conceive was a big part of my life it consumed several years so um i was not shy to talk about it i wasn't one for hiding the journey because when you hide it you can't learn people don't know people don't understand so i was always very open with talking about my journey. So then, you know, to receive a message from you was never a doubt in my mind. Yeah, of course we can meet up. Of course. course I will be there. Yeah, because I remember I was at that point, I'd had our second loss. So we had Georgie who was about...
00:03:33
Speaker
Two years old at the time, we'd lost one baby and then back to back lost another baby within six month period.
Sam's Search for Answers
00:03:39
Speaker
And you begin to really question, am I ever going to be a mum again? Have I completely missed the opportunity? What's wrong with me? Am I not a good enough mum in the first place that the university is not letting me have another baby?
00:03:53
Speaker
And just being absolutely in the depths of despair and not knowing anybody else who was going through this at the same time as me. And yes, there was a few, and I'd seen it on a Mums Matter forum and I only know that now because I'd look back at the message last night and I read it and I was like, oh wow, I'd saw that you'd commented to somebody else. And it was your comment that stood out in the way that you gave the support and the validation And you you are peer support at the heart of everything that you do. You just absolutely are.
00:04:24
Speaker
And that stood out for me. And then I noticed that we had a mutual connection. And i was like, okay, you must live in Botany. And then I worked out that actually your son was also at Daycare with Georgie. My eldest. And I was like, okay, I've got to reach out. And so I reached out.
00:04:38
Speaker
And I remember reaching out and feeling like that was a really big deal to reach out to someone that you don't know, share something so personal. But that's how desperate I was. There wasn't anybody else that was offering kind of any conversation around this. I'd started to go down some rabbit holes of what was wrong with me. i was being met by health professionals telling me, you've already got a child. There's nothing wrong with you. Just try again.
Hope and Practical Advice
00:05:00
Speaker
i remember having one Oben Gah an appointment who I never went back to again. can of remember saying to him,
00:05:06
Speaker
would you ask your wife to just try again without any further investigation at this stage after they'd lost two babies? And he couldn't give me a straight answer. And i was like, I'm done. I'm done listening to this kind of like advice that doesn't feel very fair. And so I remember reaching to you. dismissive. Yeah, incredibly dismissive.
00:05:23
Speaker
and then we had that coffee um at Botanics. It's still there now. And I remember about that, like just going back to what you said a couple of minutes ago, you were. in a massive state of just doubting of it's never going to happen. I've just had a second loss. It's never going to happen. What is wrong with me? And you i mean, it was a big part of that first coffee was, I suppose,
00:05:53
Speaker
me trying to give you a little bit of
Conceptualizing Pink Elephants
00:05:56
Speaker
hope. Yeah. And you did not in a, not in um a way of, you know, just keep trying, but you know, that the the options and the things that you can do and the questions to ask and that and mostly that you now have someone with you yeah absolutely someone the way who I remember that feeling of having someone who just gets it and not having to explain yourself because you'd been there too and you got it and that was just magic for me and I'd I'd been toying around with the idea of creating something to help people with like and we started to have that conversation and we both were getting really excited So i think you either of us really knew exactly what it was going to be at that stage. And we I remember some of the messages back and forth. I was looking at them last night and they're like, oh, I've got this idea and I've got this idea. And it was actually really cathartic for me. And I look back now and I now know that that's called translational grieving. But I felt like I needed to do. i felt like I needed to run at something and to fix it. Right. Yeah.
00:06:52
Speaker
And yeah, I feel like there was a lot of that that helped both of us and even you. kind of you in processing what had happened to you as well. Right. Definitely. Yeah. And probably... It was something I didn't realise I needed, you know. And and again, probably not even realising at the time but wanting to be that person to support someone else or that, you know, to put myself out there as well as...
00:07:17
Speaker
yeah I who would have known that that again as you said that's peer support yeah and we didn't we didn't have a label for that at the time either no we just wanted we knew we wanted to connect women remember yeah and I think yeah i mean it obviously started so small as you say oh well what could we do i don't know could we just have ah a little support group because could we just you know where people could get together and that seemed like a great idea at the time but I think We both knew that was just nowhere near enough. Yeah, absolutely.
00:07:49
Speaker
and And then we started to talk about, well, how do we do this? What does it look like? And within three months, within three months, we'd gone from idea to basically having a company structure set up and registered. Yes.
00:08:01
Speaker
And a constitution. And we didn't even know what constitution We didn't even know what that was. No, i know. yeah But I um actually remember how exciting and receiving in the in the mail. um That's how old this is. The ABN and the whole, you know, the registered business name. It wasn't a business, but, you know, the name of of um Pink Elephants and how we even came up with the name. But no, it was just so exciting. I remember someone, gosh, this is real. This is happening. Yeah. yeah I think we should talk about the name. I think the name's really beautiful.
Language Challenges in Healthcare
00:08:34
Speaker
And for those of you that don't know, Pink Elephants, because when a mother elephant loses her baby in the wild, we found a story that the other elephants form a physical circle of support around her. With their trunks all together, which is just beautiful.
00:08:49
Speaker
And it gave us goosebumps. Yeah. It still does now. I wish I hadn't put pink in front of it now, if I'm completely honest. but what would you have done? I don't know. i just feel like pink sometimes leans us towards too much of its sin just as a woman's issue. And it isn't, right? We know that partners grieve too.
00:09:05
Speaker
But we, pink for us was more around like the heart and the love. I think there was a lot of that as well. It wasn't just ah around female. I think pink is soft. Pink is nurturing nurturing. Yeah. I think probably the further we went into it,
00:09:20
Speaker
The more the name did fit. And I'm not i'm not sorry that it's pink elephants at There's me sat here in pink anyway. but Yeah, exactly. Not intentional. But I think it is important to talk about the name meant so much to us. We didn't want to be something as obvious as miscarriage or early pregnancy loss within the name because I think we didn't realise it at the time. But we also knew that sometimes the language that exists around this experience, the death of a baby during pregnancy, can actually minimize the experience. And whilst we still need to use miscarriage and we still need to use early pregnancy loss, because often that's SEO, that's how people find us, that's language that people understand, it's language that health professionals use.
Advocacy and Awareness Beginnings
00:10:01
Speaker
We actually both had issues with language that was used in healthcare settings. Do you remember my experience with the GP where they gave me a yellow stick it note with ERPC on it?
00:10:14
Speaker
And I still to this day, I use yellow stick it notes really intentionally now because it's almost like a bit of a finger up to that health professional. yeah Because that was nowhere near good enough. I turned around, I Googled and I found that that meant evacuation of remaining products of conception.
00:10:30
Speaker
On a sticky note, with a phone number for a hospital, I was expected to make that call to the hospital to book myself in for a procedure where they would remove my baby. And they thought it was okay to A, give it me on a sticky note. B, write an abbreviation that I would go and Google. It was products of conception. It's abhorrent.
00:10:47
Speaker
Yeah. It's awful, right? Yeah, absolutely. And so one of the things that Pink Elephants has done, and I think it's a really nice kind of segue to go there, is is advocacy. like The awareness campaigns, the driving the real change, because yes, support is absolutely at heart of what we offer. peer support came from you offering that to me and then identifying that this is it. This is that magic moment that women need.
00:11:11
Speaker
But then a few years in, we started to realise it wasn't enough.
Early Skepticism and Dismissal
00:11:15
Speaker
this Just support. Support alone doesn't work. There needed to be more. And it just can't grow in the way that it needed to. And also, i think essentially, two people can't be the support for everyone. um Yeah, but you know but a few years in and even probably prior to that, you know we hit a lot of stumbling blocks along the way, didn't we?
00:11:39
Speaker
Hard part. People didn't get it, did they, why we were doing this? People thought we were a bit much to still be talking about miscarriage like many months and years after us. We just hadn't over had Yeah, no we hadn't got over it. We should have got over it by now because they happened early. And you've had your rape, remember I'd had Johnny? Yeah. So Johnny was a year old, and we' sorry, Johnny was born and we were a year and we got charity registration the same week.
00:12:01
Speaker
And again, there's a lot of serendipity in these first and even just this week, it makes me. But yeah. People then thought that was it. We'd be done with this little idea and that we'd finish. Little did they know me at all. ah Little did they know. Nope. The fire iron in the belly was there.
00:12:18
Speaker
Yeah. but But again, i think it speaks to the fact that we were but we were definitely dismissed. um Again, ridiculed is probably not the right word but the – ah the people that we were aiming to get in front of or aiming to, you know, um bring awareness to and to validate what we were trying to do, it did almost feel a little bit like they were kind of, okay, dears, off you go, you know.
00:12:52
Speaker
you'll You'll be right. you'll You'll get over this soon and, you know. Yeah, that's a nice thing. Keep doing it. Keep doing your little thing. Yeah. Yeah. But again... it's all of that just fuels more it's like no this is wrong this is not okay no you don't get to you do not get to tell you know to turn people away no do you remember that first time we went to canberra together oh yes tell everyone about that hope but we sorry who it wasn't the health minister it was his advisor advisor and this is a former health minister for whom we won't name but yeah it was his advisor and Off we trotted to Canberra and we had... So excited, weren't we? Oh, we were very excited and we had a very nice PowerPoint presentation.
00:13:38
Speaker
We did, but it like it was good. It was well thought out and we put data and statistics and, um you know, um um an emotional component in there as well.
00:13:48
Speaker
But he...
00:13:53
Speaker
he
00:13:58
Speaker
Okay, sorry, stop. It's right. He kept talking about male suicide. Remember that one? Sorry, I hadn't remembered. But yeah, yeah that's right.
00:14:08
Speaker
And how that was... Yeah, so he was it it was very much that situation. for It's a really nice thing that you're doing, keep doing it. But yeah, what what we focus now on male suicide and this doesn't really hit that. And how can this relate? And it was it was just one of those moments where you're like, he just doesn't get it. And we're really struggling to get our point across. And like, there's still such a barrier. And that would have probably been 2017, 18, I'm going to guess. We'll go back and look. But it it was...
00:14:34
Speaker
One of those meetings where you just come away and you're just like, how is this so hard? Why don't people see that our babies died? My grief is real. And I deserve so much more because to us, it was so bloody
Vision for Pregnancy Loss Support
00:14:49
Speaker
obvious. But I also remember, was it that, I'm sure it was that meeting as well. And he said,
00:14:56
Speaker
Oh, but we already support stillbirth. Yes. so um basically that box is ticked. And then we were we were trying to say it's completely different. um Absolutely, 100% like warranted and the trauma is um incredible.
00:15:16
Speaker
But they're separate issues. You can't box it all up in a nice little package and think that you're supporting everyone um in the way that they need to be. It just doesn't work like that. And I think that's at the heart of why pink elephants needed to exist as a standalone for early pregnancy loss or pregnancy loss in that first trimester and the second early bit of the trimester. And we remember we had these conversations around this arbitrary marker of 20 weeks and do we turn people away? And I can proudly say now that we don't, that we know we do support who've had later losses, but
00:15:47
Speaker
We are actively out there advocating for miscarriage, the different types of pregnancy loss that happen within those first few weeks, because there still needs to be a voice for our community to drive the change that we need. And hopefully one day I'd like to think that a loss is a loss and it shouldn't matter. We shouldn't have these arbitrary weeks and go, hey, hey. But at that time, remember that I told you as well that I'd considered going to other organisations, but because they provided later term loss support,
00:16:15
Speaker
i just I didn't feel worthy in my grief. yeah I felt like I couldn't sit in a group of women where my babies had died at seven to eight weeks and go, I feel all these things because society tells you a miscarriage happens early. So therefore move on quickly. You deal with it in private, you're all okay. But actually most people feel the opposite. And because you don't have, um you know, even those midterm, you know, prior to 20 weeks, you know, 16 weeks on when people still do have to give birth. And that is a whole different ball game perception wise as well the,
00:16:51
Speaker
the grief, the invisible grief and the invisible baby that no one actually saw except for us who saw the beautiful little heartbeats on a screen and little arms and leg buds forming and, you know, that was a baby. yeah That was a proper baby. Yeah, from the moment you see a positive line on a test, from the moment you put your heart on the line and go for a round of IVF yeah and you're pregnant until proven off. There's all these things. You've got the future full of hopes and dreams and you can't help but let your heart go there and fall in love. course And so there is a real grief and a real loss that's associated with that.
Proud Moments and Milestones
00:17:27
Speaker
We've done a lot in this space in terms of challenging some of the narratives. There's still a lot long, long way to go. um What are some of the moments that you're most proud of watching Pink Elephants in the last decade?
00:17:44
Speaker
Oh yeah, okay, I'll just think about this for a second. um
00:17:53
Speaker
Gosh, there are many moments. um Do you know one that I really love is still when we first had our first little um ah event at...
00:18:08
Speaker
um yes yes and you know it was so beautiful and you know admittedly it was all our friends and family that were there but that was a really proud moment of recognition of what we'd created and it felt real and um to see how much love and support was there for us i think that was really that was really amazing um
00:18:37
Speaker
Oh, gosh, another proud moment. You're really testing me now. Yes, thank you. um ah Well, what about the proud moment at the Telstra Business Women Awards?
00:18:49
Speaker
Yeah, I think that was a moment for me. That was a huge moment. And again, i mean, obviously, incredible kudos and validation um to you.
00:19:00
Speaker
well, no, but well no But again, that was putting Pink Elephants out there on a stage that we hadn't been on before. yes And that was in like the people in that room who probably had never heard of us. yeah And it was a huge... um That was a massive stepping stone. I think that was a bit for me because there but that was 2019 where it felt like it went from beyond our botany. Shout out to all our botany lovely friends and yeah family that saw us through those early years that knew this needed to be a thing and supported us in so many ways.
00:19:33
Speaker
And I think that that was a tipping point for me when we moved from kind of that local community. And we were already supporting way outside of botany, but it was a botany community almost funding us in many They were supporting us, I suppose. You know, supporting us to support others. Yeah. And I think then that changed, right? Yeah. Around that time we got that award and then there was the Westpac one straight after. There was an AMP one. And all of a sudden we were getting this corporate sector validation and recognition that, yes, this is a thing and keep going.
00:20:02
Speaker
You're going to make a huge difference here. And I can't tell you how much i personally needed that as a leader of Pink Elephants as well, because we were going into, unbeknownst to us, COVID. Yes.
00:20:12
Speaker
And how hard of a time that was for the organisation and having to make decisions around hibernating some of our programs and just closing things down so that we could sustain what little funding we had at that time so that we could still be here now. we had You had to make tough choices in that time. Yeah, it was really hard. To be able to still give support but I guess um really pared down support.
00:20:36
Speaker
but And not grow in my usual crazy, you want to do this and we're going to do this and couldn't do any of that. And also again, was going through another loss myself in 2020 as well. And yeah, it was a really... Which was really, really tough for you. Yeah.
COVID-19 Challenges
00:20:51
Speaker
And ironically... something that you held in. Yeah, I didn't share. No, you didn't share. Which is interesting, isn't it? It is. i think that's also that permission slip for others and yourself. You learn with the experiences of loss and these types of loss that I'd put myself in this position where I'd almost become like an advocate in the space, early days of Pink Elephants, but still i was kind of garnering a momentum and people knew that Pink Elephants and what I was doing and that was epic, but...
00:21:22
Speaker
Yet dealing with... It just felt so cruel. felt so cruel that you could be doing so much.
00:21:32
Speaker
Yeah. And trying your hardest to make it better for other people. And then to land yourself back there again. And I couldn't find the words. That was awful. i think There's been many a time I've wanted to just go, this is done, I've done my bit now. I'm done.
00:21:48
Speaker
Somehow we're still here. we are still here. But...
00:21:54
Speaker
I think too, um you know, it's very different, you know, to experience a loss um and, you know, reach out for support, you have your people around you, but for for you in that time and you know your presence was growing and the recognition of you as the leader of pink elephants and everything it's a very different um to do that in a public way and whilst yes you absolutely did you know um you did eventually put yourself out there and it was very raw and very um
00:22:35
Speaker
It was bit brutal in some ways. Like I could really feel just the hurt and everything. But I i know, yeah i was really proud of you for getting it out there. But I think too, as devastating as it was,
00:22:53
Speaker
On a positive, it really, really gave you an extra fire. Yeah, it did. And and I think that that is what has what propelled you to, well, what gave you the force to propel Pink Elephants to this next trajectory of where we have spent now the last few years. Yeah, yeah, I agree. I like as deeply painful as it was at the time.
00:23:18
Speaker
It definitely reunited. It's not like the passion had ever gone. No. Because i feel like the change was always, i knew what we needed to do and I wanted to do it, but you kept getting knocked. And there were so many no's in this journey that we don't talk about as well. There's so many points when people didn't understand what we were trying to do. And we were looked at, like you said earlier, as if it was something nice to do, keep going. Like ah ah almost like we were a rich couple of housewives. If people knew,
00:23:40
Speaker
like, it that's actually a really good point. Like, we bootstrapped a charity, which is absolute madness, because you don't, no one can own a charity. We knew that when we were starting it. There's no shares in a business that you grow, you can't sell it, you can't profit. We knew that because we wanted to create a free service, because we'd been those women that had been sold XY and Z service whilst trying to conceive again. you remember the conversations around that? where We were like, we can't charge people. People are not, we're going to have to be a charity. We even looked at social enterprise. It wasn't really a thing back then. And yet we backed and forth on that for a little bit. And eventually we'd got legal advice and it was, yeah, you need to be a charity. put that cost us thousands of dollars that we each had to put in. And eventually Pink Elephants grew to a point where it did pay us back for that. I'm incredibly grateful. But yeah, we weren't just a bored couple of rich housewives with nothing to do, doing
Developing Pink Elephants at Home
00:24:31
Speaker
something nice for others. Yeah. like
00:24:34
Speaker
No. But that does bring us back to those very early days at Sam's kitchen table. it' Still got the same table. I'm not allowed to get rid of it. No, you can't in the squeaky stool. Yeah. that and Sam loved an A3 kind of visual diary thing I still have that now and the team still laugh at me oh my goodness on the table we'd have it spread out and with her coloured pens and doing all the diagrams and the the you know circles with the lines coming out of them Gabby would look at me like i' absolutely crazy I had this vision and I definitely and I still work that way now and I've
00:25:13
Speaker
Not shared this public before, but yeah, I'm ADHD. And so that I can spot patterns really well. It's a bit obvious. And I draw things. They're terrible. I'm not an artist by any means at all, but I draw what I want to achieve. And I still now have these big white things and I have to draw. The visuals actually very helpful. but yeah i mean Circles. Remember the circles? We're still a circle, right? I know.
00:25:39
Speaker
but um They were good times. but Yeah. I look back and I just, I love those times. I love those times. They were, you know, so special. And you would take my utter chaos and I would verbal diarrhea a lot, still do this now, and you would synthesize it with your incredible copywriting skills. And that's what gifted Pink Elephants, those first resources, the sorry for your loss, the emotional well-being,
00:26:07
Speaker
ah partner the partner resource that were the very first telling ah tell friend spot and a friend yeah and we still use that copy now it still hits and resonates now there's been slight iterations over the years but we still use it and that was us sitting around backwards and forwards and going well what do people need to hear how can we explain this and I'd say something and then you'd land it in a really beautiful way and I think, yeah, those you just have an incredible way with words and the way that you write things. You get really nervous doing things like this. And this is where we were, the yin and the yang, and it was really good because i like i didn't i couldn't sit still long enough to write longer than 50 words. I know.
00:26:48
Speaker
I'd be bouncing around with ideas and going, we could do this and we could do this, and I'd draw things and you'd somehow synthesise it. I think sometimes I'd feel like a bit of a wet blanket, but I would try to – try to like bring it back down and put a process in place of things yeah what's that again um no you were really good that way i yeah those those first couple of years will always always be so special me too yeah and i think another thing that people should hear about is the intentionality that this is never about your experience or my experience And before we'd even registered as a business, we started holding focus groups.
Empathy and Evidence Approach
00:27:27
Speaker
yes remember Cudgy? I do remember. And we wanted to listen to other women's experience of miscarriage. And we took so many notes, so many notes. We asked so many questions and we had the most beautiful connection. I'm still connected to some of those women now.
00:27:42
Speaker
And we deeply listened because we knew that we needed to represent more than just my recurrent pregnancy loss and your IVF journey. It needed to be more. And so I think that that has also stood Pink Elephants in a really good position that we we use language now, like we underpin everything with evidence and empathy. Because from day one, we did that. Because day one, we listened. That's the empathy part. And we actually took the time synthesise that information and to use it to support people and start to build a body of evidence that we knew we could use. I don't know. We didn't know. That's the wrong word. don't think we – I mean, at that time, we didn't we would never have known it was a body of evidence. No. Yeah, you're right. We knew that – I guess I wouldn't even say a catalogue, but actually we did kind of catalogue it little Remember, we had the three pillars, support, nurture and power. Yeah. um
00:28:34
Speaker
And we had on the website the share your story, share your journey. Still there now. That was also amazing. that And I think, again, quite a cathartic for many people to be able to get out, um you know, what maybe they couldn't talk to other people about. but for them But then the flip side of that is that anyone reading that we could potentially out of, you know, a dozen different people's journeys could find something
00:29:04
Speaker
to connect with in those, which, yeah. We really did take so much time and care because it was a year before we launched the website as well. Yeah. Remember that? because it I know it wasn't a year, it was sorry, six months because we started in the March, we registered by the June and in the November we launched the website. So it's six to eight months arguably of listening to experiences, me and you around that kitchen table, me drawing my mad diagrams, you synthesizing it into copy that made sense and then building that content in a way that would sort
Miscarriage Care Kits and Language
00:29:35
Speaker
support women. Yeah.
00:29:37
Speaker
There was so much thought and consideration that went into this that it's only now when you stop. Like, yeah, I know.
00:29:46
Speaker
It is. We did. We just. And I think that's why it landed so well because there'd been so much time and care. And I remember, I do remember having conversations around, we don't want to be one woman's story with one woman's kind of telling us, selling a magic pill at the end of it. There was a lot of that at the time. And a lot of people trying to get us to jump on board. Yeah. Selling certain fertility things that would guarantee a baby. If you stop doing this or you do this, then you'll, that was the magic pill and,
00:30:15
Speaker
Yeah, what we were hearing from real women's lived experience is that there was no magic pill, that sometimes this worked and other times it didn't. And as devastating as it was, like... And also we we weren't trying to solve the problem. No, we weren't fixing it. It wasn't health advice. We weren't solving. No, and we had to, you know, that was a big thing and we had to be very careful around that.
00:30:35
Speaker
um We had to be very clear that we were not giving health advice. then That wasn't where we sat. We were supporting. Yeah, emotional support, remember? Emotional support literature. Yeah.
00:30:46
Speaker
And originally we called them the miscarriage care kits. You have to say it so that everyone understands that because we had to change it. The miscarriage care kits and that became a problem because every time Sam said it, she didn't think anyone could understand. They can't. They sound like I'm saying a furry dog or something because of my lovely northern dulcet tones. No
Peer Support Training Launch
00:31:05
Speaker
one could understand. And because I was naturally kind of the spokesperson and out there having meetings and trying to get people involved in this, it needed to be something that I could say.
00:31:14
Speaker
So we couldn't call them that. We changed it. Yes. But then, ah so yeah because you're so much better with remembering all these specific dates and things, but when did we start peer support?
00:31:26
Speaker
2018 okay July and the only reason is I genuinely have spent a few months prepping for this 10 year of impact and looking back and you know what I'm like I'm so future focused I'm so on to the next thing when the other thing's only halfway finished I'm like well we're there now and everyone's like whoa slow down yes and that's just my nature and that has arguably been a big part of pink elephants as well that drive has seen us I'm proud of that yes but I've never really actually stopped and celebrated milestones. And this is providing me a really beautiful point to do that. And I have gone back and looked at dates and that's why i do.
00:32:01
Speaker
And yeah, it was July, 2018 when we had that first peer support companion training, because what we did was, you remember, and I've literally just, it full context, just interviewed Terry and Maggie before you today, and that'll be a separate episode. and We spent a year with Terry building that program, asking people's experiences, listening to more stories again, sharing that with Terry. Terry had her own lived experience. She had her own social work and background at the time and counselling background and all of that together. We spent so much time and Terry created that incredible training program for us. I remember our first meeting with her at Westfield.
00:32:38
Speaker
Yeah, Max Brenner. Yeah. And we met her. And it just felt right. It did. It did. She was the perfect person and she gave so much of her time and knowledge and support to us to because ah she knew and believed in what we were doing and knew the importance of it. And I think that's a really common thread that I've witnessed.
00:33:03
Speaker
The beauty of the experiences that we go through and the strength of Pink's Elephants, it really it's not Pink Elephant, it's Pink Elephants. It's a collective. And that collective is of individuals who truly understand the depth and the impact of this. And in the beginning, that was only people with lived experience.
00:33:23
Speaker
And as we've grown, I now have people within the team that don't have lived experience, but they are arguably just as passionate about this space as I am.
Future Hopes and Advocacy Goals
00:33:31
Speaker
I have people on the board that don't necessarily have direct lived experience. They may have family and friends. And they're just as powerful. And I'd say that's a shift that we've created that's happened. as well because we've drove the awareness of this issue.
00:33:44
Speaker
And as we grow over a time, the more and more more people join us on our mission and it still remains the same. The vision is that no one goes to early pregnancy loss alone. We're still there now. Walk the journey alone.
00:33:58
Speaker
And whilst it might be an individual journey, it isn't one that should be walked alone. They were your words.
00:34:05
Speaker
You're really good with the words. Really good. I might talk them, but yeah, you can write them in a beautiful way.
00:34:14
Speaker
If any of your boys were to be faced with fertility challenges or to go through pregnancy loss with their partners in the future, what do you hope is in place for them?
00:34:27
Speaker
um
00:34:30
Speaker
Well, was going to say, they're lucky that they know who they can come to. True. But more than that, I hope that, you know, when when they and or and their partners are delivered the news that it is done with care, and empathy and um and they that they're given time, that they're not sent straight out of the room and, you know, told to get on with their day. I hope that they are referred. i mean, I hope that Pink Elephants will be, first and foremost, that is it.
00:35:08
Speaker
That is the number one referral pathway. And I hope that, yeah, they're given they're given that. They're given the resources or at least led to where the resources are to get them. I hope when it comes to, you know, if they have to have a DNC or something medically, I hope that that hospitals have evolved to a place a space where, you know, people are not put in a room with heavily pregnant women or people that have just had babies. i and You know, maybe that's just a pipe dream. I don't know. it would be lovely to think that there were places, clinics within a hospital setting that just were...
00:35:52
Speaker
well, pink elephants clinics, but even so, whatever, just a place that hospitals recognise that this is very specific and needs its own
00:36:03
Speaker
beautiful way of enveloping the people that are going through it. And, you know, it's it's an ongoing support as well, that they know where to find ongoing support.
00:36:16
Speaker
and And again, and if they are trying to get pregnant again or they do get pregnant again, that, ah it has recognised the trauma that they've been through and that they have, you know, extra scans, extra support. They're offered counselling. there You know, it just should you shouldn't. it just you know It's beyond belief that people have to still beg and plead and fight for all of this stuff. But that's what I would hope. I hope for the future that we can continue to do what we're doing but also that the healthcare system does...
00:36:51
Speaker
catch up I mean it's better don't get me wrong it's a lot better but I really hope that's yeah I hope that it grows more I think you just described systems change there
00:37:04
Speaker
And yeah, that is absolutely something that Pink Elephants uses the privilege that we get to listen to so many experiences. I'm talking thousands of women each month share their experiences with us. We don't take that lightly. Those experiences are very much heard, considered, and they inform our advocacy, our support, and our awareness campaigns. And that ultimately drives something much bigger than even just one-on-one support.
00:37:28
Speaker
That delivers systems change, right? That will change the future for our children, who chances are will potentially go through this. And yet one day pink elephants will be completely synonymous with pregnancy loss. It will just be that's where you go.
00:37:43
Speaker
We will get there. It's been an absolute pleasure to finally get you to come on the podcast. It only took three seasons to hear your take and to share those early days because they'll always, always hold a special place in my heart too. And Pink Elephants is what it is now because of what you gave me when I needed it most.
00:38:04
Speaker
And it wouldn't have been that without you.
00:38:09
Speaker
Thank you. Thank you. Meeting you was the day that changed our lives forever. And... Yeah, I'll forever, ever be grateful for that.