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Episode 43: Spring Stampede Retrospective
53 Plays3 years ago
We've finished up our fourth series! Now join us as we discuss the Spring Stampede series as a whole, to find its unifying themes. See how you do on our Spring Stampede quiz. Plus: Who will get the coveted Series MVP awards? For all this, plus some very strange match rebookings, Let's Go to the Ring!
Music by Michael Gary Brewer at https://www.instantmusicnow.com/
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Transcript
00:00:01
Speaker
Hey Bobby, it would help if you started on the first page. Mix up a little bit. Yeah, go to page three. One of these days I'm going to do that. Like, that will happen, I'm sure. Like, Mac number four. Wait, wait, that's not right.
Introduction to Let's Go to the Ring
00:00:42
Speaker
Hello everyone, and welcome to Let's Go to the Ring, where we take a look at the good old days, and not so good old days, of World Championship Wrestling, series by series. I'm your host, Bob Moore, and I'm joined by Alec Pridgen. Excuse me, Alec Pridgen has just been attacked by Bam Bam Bigelow, so I guess I'm hosting with Bam Bam Bigelow now. Oh, oh wait, no. Alec's come back with a superkick. So, hi, Al. Hey, alright, I got better. Okay. Alright. How are you?
00:01:11
Speaker
I'm doing I'm doing good. How's it going tonight? Yeah, you're pretty good. Pretty good. All
Recap of Spring Stampede Series
00:01:15
Speaker
right. Well, we have just finished our fourth series. Oh, yeah. Spring Stampede. That's kind of oddly appropriate. It's our fourth series and it's a series that took place entirely in the fourth month. Yeah.
00:01:30
Speaker
It was a pretty fascinating series to cover, I think. Filled with fun sets, weird time gaps, and a full set of good to great shows. As long as you pretend, as I prefer to, that Spring Stampede 2000 does not exist. Yeah, no, that's fair. Tonight, we are going to take a look back over Spring Stampede, play some guessing games, and hand out some awards. I hope that you'll have fun listening and play along.
00:01:57
Speaker
Spring Stampede ran from 1994 to 2000, covering a total of five shows, thanks to a two-year gap between the first and the second. I was going to say, yeah, people are thinking your math is terrible right now. Yes. So we're going to go through some Spring Stampede stats here on the pay-per-view buys and attendance figures and such. So Al, what do you think the number one Spring Stampede is in terms of pay-per-view buys?
00:02:27
Speaker
Probably 98, I would think, because that's post-Starcade 97. I can see maybe 97 itself being top. I think 98, I think that holds strongest. Okay, so top three Spring Stampedes in terms of pay-per-view buys. In third place, Spring Stampede 1997, with 145,000. They were on the Ascent, but they weren't up the day. Yeah, they were just starting this thing set up, so it's understandable.
00:02:52
Speaker
Yeah. In second, Spring Stampede 1999 with 220,000. They hadn't really started their downturn yet. And you were right. In first place is Spring Stampede 1998 with 250,000. And the bottom two
00:03:11
Speaker
In second place, we had Spring Stampede 1994 with 120,000. And in first place, we have Spring Stampede 2000 with 100,000. It is the last WCW pay-per-view to even reach that.
Spring Stampede Attendance and Venues
00:03:31
Speaker
The series took place across five different arenas, but only four different states. One state, Illinois, got two shows, but in two different arenas.
00:03:41
Speaker
It's kind of weird. I think they just go to the same place again. Yeah, I guess it's just as a matter of scheduling, probably, or maybe one didn't work out for them as well as they planned. Maybe they were hoping for a bigger audience one time than the one could hold. Who knows? Sure. The top three spring stampedes in terms of attendance. So what do you think number one is? I'm thinking still 98, probably. It seems like as far as these shows go is the hottest, I think. OK.
00:04:07
Speaker
Well, in third place we have 1994 with 12,200. In second place we have 2000 with 12,556.
00:04:19
Speaker
Now, as you'll recall, I believe we're just looking at the actual raw attendance numbers. But as I think I'm right on saying 2000 was the show that was in the arena that could hold like more than double that. Yes, it was a very big arena. Yeah. And number one is actually Spring Stampede 1999, which had 17,690.
00:04:42
Speaker
That might be a stadium thing maybe. Yeah, I think it's really more an issue of stadium size for these. Gotcha. Bottom two, second place is Spring Stampede 1997 with 8,356. And first place, actually the lowest one, is 1998. Interesting. With 7,426. Like you said, though, I think that's more a factor of arena size than a drawing an audience at that point.
Themes and Key Matches of Spring Stampede
00:05:11
Speaker
The shows varied quite a bit in terms of the number of matches, from a perfectly acceptable eight matches to an entirely unacceptable 14. The top three spring stampedes in terms of the number of matches. So do you remember which one? You obviously remember which one had 14, right? Yeah, the terrible one we just covered. Yes, yes. What do you think was highest after the 14? Ooh, I want to say 99.
00:05:39
Speaker
Well, in third place, we had Spring Stampede 1999. Oh, OK. With nine matches. In second place, with 10 matches is Spring Stampede 1998. Oh, OK. And in first place, of course, with 14 matches, many of which also sucked. Yes. Is Spring Stampede 2000. If you want to call the man, cow, Jimmy Hart thing a match.
00:06:05
Speaker
I think we have to. It had an opening bell, ending bell, referee, whole shebang. It was terrible, but it was a match. It technically was a match. Yes. We've spent the last several months going through the Spring Stampede show by show and talking about each individual show's traits. But now it's time for us to look at the series as a whole. What is Spring Stampede as a series?
00:06:35
Speaker
What traits or themes stand out? Is there a unified identity to the series? Is there something that unites it as a whole? Al, what are your thoughts?
00:06:46
Speaker
So I had a few things that kind of work as themes. So I don't think there's really a unifying theme, but a few things that kind of flow throughout the shows. Uh, one of them is the idea of chaos versus order. Okay. The very first show, you had these real chaotic matches. The ideas are sort of letting people go. So you have that Chicago street fight. You have a Bunkhouse match. Yeah. And that other matches, they just couldn't quite control like say Vader versus boss man. And yes, I'm going to say boss man, though it's the boss because he was clearly the boss man.
00:07:17
Speaker
That's not an accident. But then going further, once we jump to 97, skipping past all the other stuff, we get to the NBO trying to take over. So again, it's the chaos that the NBO creates by their existence.
00:07:33
Speaker
the WCW, as they asked to be called, fighting to sort of regain control and gain order, everything. Even besides that, you also have strife is in the in the video in state 98, especially. Yep. The whole thing already savage can't be controlled. Even we've done a ball in the video, you really can't control ready savages, guess for free. He kind of does what he feels like. Yeah, 99. Yeah, 99. Yeah, exactly.
00:07:59
Speaker
And 98 is definitely about Hogan trying to control him while he's trying to win the world title and not really doing a good job at it. It being effectively the start of the whole Wolfpack versus Hollywood angle as well, that yeah, it's a total breakdown of order. Right. Or of the new world order. Yes. You go by and that, of course, the bat match, which has the turn of Hogan, a company against Nash as well. Yep.
00:08:23
Speaker
Uh, no, the general one we have is of course, as we probably talked about a couple of times throughout the show is the rise of DDP. Yep. Because of course we have him in the opening mat to get John to be bad in 1994. Deb had a couple of years when he sort of, it is growing pain, skipping past that you have him.
00:08:41
Speaker
getting his sort of, at that point, career defining match, I'd say him and Randy Savage. Oh yeah, absolutely. Proving he can beat a guy who's at this point has won like four world titles. He's a big name and he's important to be whoa. He dumped from that to him being near the top and being as US champion. Then of course 99, we have the payoff to everything, which is of course him finally winning the world title. Right.
00:09:05
Speaker
And 2000, we have him a year later as a very established guy who I think at that point has won the title twice, I believe. Yeah, twice. So he's now a two-time world champion, fully established. And the whole idea of the show is going back to the chaos is the order thing. Russo and his group are trying to dethrone him essentially, even though he's not actually champion, they're trying to bump him out of position and put Jeff Jarrett, the chosen one there.
00:09:30
Speaker
It kind of calls back a little bit to the theme that we have in Slamboree of the war over tradition. Yeah. That we kept saying, you know, each year demonstrates that the ones who were challenging the old traditions have now become the tradition that is being challenged. Exactly. Yeah. The other thing you have is kind of a, it's a lesser theme, one with maybe war of a weird coincidence. Two out of the five shows have Scott Diner winning a vacant WCW US championship. Yes.
00:09:57
Speaker
It's kind of weird how that works. In both cases, in the final match of a tournament. Correct, yes. Yeah. 99, Scott Hall has title taken off of him, and he wins her book of tea, and in 2000, everyone had the title taken away from them. Weirdly enough, his partner, Jeff Jarrett, has title taken away. Yeah. But he traded up that night, so he worked out.
00:10:18
Speaker
But yeah, it's just funny that two shows in a row like that have Scott Steiner as part of the story of finally getting his due, quote unquote, because that's part of the new blood. And he's exactly where he was the same year before. Yeah, exactly. Not quite an elevation. That's what I got. Well, I think you've touched on some of the things that I would comment on as well. All right. For me, there's three themes and I would call them fun, opportunity and preludes. Okay.
00:10:48
Speaker
So for fun, well, that one's fairly direct and obvious, I think. It's more about the feel of the shows. WCW just seems to have more fun with this series than with most. Yeah. They set a playful atmosphere for the graphics and the sets. They got more creative with their presentation. And that showed through in the matches, the commentary, and the general mood of most of the shows.
00:11:09
Speaker
Everyone for most of the series is just having a good time. Even when the storylines are serious and the stakes are high, you never actually feel tense watching the series because DDP and Raven are brawling on a stagecoach, or Keenan is cracking jokes about frequent flyer miles, or Tony is snarking about Mysterio's pockets.
00:11:28
Speaker
Yeah. And by the way, on most of the shows, you can look in the background to see this hilarious and awesome Old West set of some level or another that just brightens your day. Yeah. Even the awful 2000 show has good moments of levity with things like Luger just having a good time mocking Bagwell's dance or cracking up at Flair's over the top promo. Yeah. I very nearly gave Luger MVP on that show, honestly, for making me laugh repeatedly.
00:11:51
Speaker
Yeah. And of course they have stuff that's designed to be fun, but doesn't quite work like say the hardcore match. Right. Yes. Whether it's a seed or not, they are going for it. They are going for fun overall. Yeah. Yeah. But yeah, 2000 aside, 94, 97, 98, and 99 are all just playful, creative shows where WCW seemed to let themselves be more free with design and concepts within the normally were. And it set the tone for each show and inspired everyone on it.
00:12:19
Speaker
Yeah, I think the only series that's really comparable as far as using the crazy sets and really embracing the theme is probably Halloween Havoc. Yeah. That's the other one that came to my mind as well. It's just like where they really just play around with the look and feel of the show. Yes. So much like they have ones where they're in costume. Oh, that's true. Yeah. Yeah. And then the giant pumpkin with the like demon over. I love the giant show. Yeah. That's yeah. So that that's the other series, I think, where they really play around a lot for sure. Yeah.
00:12:48
Speaker
But then we get to what I feel are the two main themes of the series. I'll start with opportunity. OK.
00:12:54
Speaker
So opportunity is represented both in and out of character. We have Diamond Dallas Page as the most notable one, as you've mentioned. He represents it for both angles. He got his first shot at a main event on a 1997 show and a chance to prove himself in combat against a legend in the form of Randy Savage, but that's not just an in-character theme for DDP out of character. He was also getting the chance to prove himself as well to show that he could put on a great main event and that he was worthy of that level of performance.
00:13:22
Speaker
And then on 99, he got another chance, as you pointed out, the opportunity to be world champion for the first time, to have the company resting on his shoulders. Again, both in and out of character. It's a chance for the character DDP to earn the highest possible achievement, but it's also a chance for the man DDP to be at the top of the company to show he can be the focal point.
00:13:43
Speaker
But it's not just DDP. Others have opportunity-focused stories too. For instance, on 1997, we have Prince Iakea, who has a tale about proving himself. Even though he's champion already, he has to prove that he deserves to be. And then the four-way match on 1997 is about opportunity too. Who will get the chance to face Hollywood Hogan on a future show? Who's going to have the fate of WSW riding on their shoulders?
00:14:11
Speaker
And then, heck, there's 2000, the purest possible expression of opportunity for the whole series. The entire show is about it. The New Blood is out to seize opportunities that they believe have been withheld from them. Chances at titles that they believe others have kept from them, even when some of them have actually won that title before and just sent it out.
00:14:32
Speaker
When opportunities haven't come, they've decided to seize them by force and seize them they do, with most of the titles that night won by the New Blood, including, most notably, first time world champion, Jeff Jarrett. Yes. Who is in the position of proving himself that DDP was a year prior against DDP himself. Yeah. So that's opportunities. So what about preludes?
00:14:55
Speaker
Well, the series also features the setup, or the initial moments, of a large number of important angles. While it does close out some storylines, it starts, or at least hints at, more stories than it concludes. Few things really end on Spring Stampede, but quite a lot are set up.
00:15:14
Speaker
In 1994, we get loads of references to the pending arrival of Hulk Hogan, as the company sets the table for his arrival. While it is, indeed, closing out a number of feuds, it's always in a forward-looking sense. There's a sense of expectation about the show, as it always looks forward to what's coming soon. In 1997, again, we're deciding who's going to face Hogan for the world title, kicking off the story of his next challenger, and setting up the champions of WCW who will battle the NWO for the next several months in the absence of their hero, Sting.
00:15:45
Speaker
1997 kicks off Luger and DDP's Primacy as challengers, and also sets up Flair's actions to oppose the NWO, kicking off the angle that's going to lead to Green, Piper, and Flair facing the NWO next show. In 1998, we see the beginning of the rift in the NWO, as you discussed, that's going to create the Hollywood and Wolfpack factions, the dramatic split in the NWO that defines most of the shows for the remainder of the year.
00:16:11
Speaker
We see the cause of the rift, the drawing of the battle lines, the start of the alignment of the NWO members in the two factions. And we also see hints at the swiftly coming rise of Goldberg, soon to be United States champ, with Diamond Alice Page and Raven virtually fighting more for the right to face him than for the US title. Yeah, that's true.
00:16:32
Speaker
In 1999, we get Diamond Dallas Page showing the signs of the heel turn that he's gonna have shortly, as he starts his run with the world title, demonstrating a viciousness in the title match that he had not thus far shown. We also get what I believe is the first appearance of Scotty Riggs in his new gimmick, kicking off a news story for him. Not all first steps lead to long journeys. Yeah, yeah, that's true. And what I also believe is the first appearance of Blitzkrieg on pay-per-view, though I could be wrong on that. I believe it's for pay-per-view appearance, correct.
00:17:02
Speaker
And then of course, again, 2000, the whole company is getting a new start. A rebirth of sorts, rising like a phoenix from its ashes, albeit with sputtering flames and a broken wing. Yeah, sure. It's somewhat ironic that the worst show in the series so well demonstrates the series theme to me. Yeah, yeah.
00:17:22
Speaker
2000 sets up an entire slate of new champions, sets up a new status quo, and defines the conditions that will affect the company-wide angles for months to come. Yeah, introducing or reintroducing people, Mike Awesome, Shane Douglas, Chris Candido's first appearance. Right, yeah. Tami Sitch as well. Yes. Unexpectedly, apparently. Yes.
00:17:45
Speaker
From here on, we're going to get storylines between the New Blood and the Millionaires Club, between Sting and Vampiro, between the Flair family and Russo. I didn't say all the preludes were for good things. So you have opportunity and preludes, but really they combine, I think, as beginnings.
00:18:04
Speaker
Spring Stampede is the launch of a great many things. DDP's main event level career, his world champion identity, the next Hogan challenger, the NWO split, the New Blood vs. Millionaires Club angle, they're all about beginnings, all about people getting the chance to do something new and different, or in some cases being forced into that. Beginnings is a very appropriate theme for Spring. Yeah, it's true.
00:18:28
Speaker
So in fact, in many ways, I think spring is the theme. The series title is not just a statement of time, but also of purpose. The shows are in and of spring, the time of beginnings, of opportunity, of rebirth, of growth. So appropriately on the various spring stampedes, storylines, performers, and even the company itself, begin new things, grow, and are changed and reborn. If in some cases for very brief times. Yes.
00:19:00
Speaker
We've had a look at the Spring Stampede stats, but now we're going to take a look at some interesting data that I've gathered on the performers who appeared on the shows. So, Al, time to see your memory of the series here. All right. See how much I blocked out. Mostly the last show, probably. All right. First up, who do you think appeared as a competitor in the most matches? Any guesses?
00:19:30
Speaker
Dink's got to be an easy pick for that because he's on most of the show. I think he misses 97, obviously, but. Yeah, he's busy hanging out in the rafters at that point. Right. But he also has multiple matches on 2000. He has the three matches on that show. So that kind of balanced that a little bit. Flair's a pretty good constant throughout. He's not on 97 because he comes back for the Slamboree.
00:19:56
Speaker
He has everything to average one match per show, but DDP is on all the shows. He's probably the most consistent performer as far as being on every show, I believe. Yeah, DDP is on every show. So that's five then. Do you think that Sting rises to more than five? I feel like he at least ties it. Because if he's on 94, 98, 99, and then he has his 2000 matches, actually he might pull ahead if I did the math on that without writing it down.
00:20:25
Speaker
All right. Well, in third place, with four matches each, we have Booker T, Lex Luger, and Ric Flair. In second place, with five each, we have Diamond Dallas Page and Scott Steiner. Oh yeah, that's true. Also several tournament appearances that make up for not being on a show or two. That's true.
00:20:51
Speaker
And in first place, you were right. With six matches, this is Sting. There you go. But that's matches overall. So who was a competitor in the most main events? And I'm only counting actual main events here. The final aired match of the show, regardless of what anyone says on the show. I don't think we actually had any declared main events. No, I don't think so. But just to be clear. Gotcha.
00:21:22
Speaker
I feel like it's got to be DDP because he's main eventing 97, 99 and 2000. He's not main eventing 98. He's like semi main eventing that. All right. In third place with one main event each, we have Hulk Hogan, Jeff Jarrett and Ricky the Dragon Steamboat. It's weird. Hogan's only at the one, but yeah, it is. It is surprising, isn't it? Yeah. That always shocks me when he's not higher on the list for main events when we're covering this period.
00:21:50
Speaker
Yeah, I think it shows that he can't be bothered to peer on as far as it is. Yeah, true. But even Starkades, he didn't actually have that many main events on, as I recall. Yeah. They just get so much notoriety, they kind of think of them as being everyone. Yeah. In second place, with two main events each, we have Rick Flair, Randy Savage, and Sting. And in first place, with three main events, is indeed Diamond Dallas Page. Nice. Proving that this is his series.
00:22:23
Speaker
A show isn't just about competitors, though. There's all sorts of other roles to fill. So next up, the commentary team. The most matches called by commentator. And actually, on this one, since number one is probably fairly obvious, I ask you to try and do the top three. All right. Yes, Siobhan is obviously number one because he's on all the shows. You want to say Madden and Hudson because they call all of
00:22:47
Speaker
I'll be way too many matches in 2000, but they don't call any other matches. So that I almost kind of red herring there. Cause you go to that show and it's trick you. It's gotta be Shvonne and Hina. Cause Hina's existed except the 2000. It's one of the major problems with that show. Not the only major problem as we discussed at length, but definitely a major problem. Right. Replacing Madden with him is at least make a show a point better. I didn't beat Tanay actually, just because I'm sure he's on and they have more matches.
00:23:17
Speaker
All right. So you're saying three Tanay, two Hienan, one Shivani. Yeah. All right. Well, in number three with 20 matches called is Iron Mike Tanay. Oh, right. And second place with 35 matches called is Bobby the Brain Hienan. All right. And in first place, obviously with 49 matches called is Tony Shivani. He calls every single match on the series. Yes.
00:23:47
Speaker
It's always darker that there is soft because he has one show, he's just not on because he hadn't come in yet. Yeah, when you get the 80s to 90s transition, there's some shows where it's like JR in the lead or Bob Coddle if you're particularly early or things like that. Right. So he'll probably keep the lead on most series, but every now and then we throw a loophole in there. When does that go have the backlog? Yeah, yeah. So managers.
00:24:14
Speaker
What is your guess for who managed people in the most matches? I'm always bad with the manager questions. Cause yeah, I don't think about that as much unless they really interfere a lot. I can't remember how much Jimmy Hart's involved managing. Yeah, I'll tell you the obvious ones. Tammy counts for obviously just the one match. Right. Yeah. They're coming at the end, still counts there. Yeah.
00:24:41
Speaker
And I actually, I may have counted her for that one as interference instead of as a manager at that time. I'm not absolutely sure. Cause you didn't really come out with them. She appears at the, yeah, she, she kind of jumps in at the end. So whereas Daphne is definitely a manager for that because cause she's only in still under fears and there's an ungodly number of people that are counted as managers for that match. I believe. Yes.
00:25:01
Speaker
I'm trying to think of other people as managers, per se. Yeah, I'm not sure. All right. I will let you know the answer surprised me on this one because I didn't remember the person appearing as often as they did. Okay. Oh, by the way, I'm starting with second because third place was a 27 way tie. And I am not reading that many people's names off. It's just one match each basically. Yeah. Okay, gotcha.
00:25:24
Speaker
So in second, a three-way tie with two appearances as a manager each. We have Ted DiBiase. Oh, right. Yeah. Kimberly Page. Oh, yeah. And Colonel Robert Parker. Right. Right. With Austin. I forgot that. Yep. And then in first place with three appearances, Elizabeth. Oh, yeah.
00:25:47
Speaker
She appears with Savage twice, and then she accompanies Kevin Nash alongside Lex Luger for his match against Goldberg. Oh, that's true. Yeah. Yeah, I didn't. I didn't remember that last one. I was like, wait, how'd she get in the lead? And then remember it. Oh, right. She's not just with Savage on it.
00:26:02
Speaker
All right, referees. Who refereed the most matches? Now this is counting every referee appearance, every time they came out to do referee duties for a match. Whether it's being the initial assigned ref, replacing the actual referee after a ref bump, or coming out to rectify a referee's call. But I will let you know I did not count appearances where they just kind of showed up but didn't actually do anything referee-ish.
00:26:29
Speaker
Okay. So like when they come out to unlock the cuffs on a night heart after that match, they don't count as referees. Right. Right. Yeah. Or if they try to just like wake up the one ref, but not actually don't actually start repping. That's not. Yeah, that's not a referee appearance. Okay. So who do you think refereed the most matches? I know Dickinson's in a lot. He'd be an easy one. Curtis is definitely Mark Curtis definitely aren't a lot for sure.
00:26:58
Speaker
and, uh, play, like, the evil, evil ref. He's not really, really evil on this show series at all. Cause of the timeline. Do you mean Nick Patrick or do you make Patrick? Oh, okay. Yeah. Yeah. He's never really there. Other than the one match, he's only there. He has 97 show where he transitions from being evil to good at least temporarily. Right. Right. Yeah. He's an evil ref for the one match. Yeah. We don't have like a bunch of shows where he's the go to evil ref. Right.
00:27:28
Speaker
Yeah, I'd probably say Dickinson or Mark Curtis. He's there a lot. I know. Okay. In third place, with six appearances, we have Billy Silverman. Ah, right. Yeah. In second place, we have a three-way tie with eight appearances each. And that's actually Mickey J. Oh, right. Yeah. Booker T's favorite referee. Charles Robinson and Randy Anderson. Oh, okay.
00:27:53
Speaker
And then in first place, despite not being evil ref this time for most of the series, Nick Patrick still takes it with 11 appearances. Oh, okay. Yeah, I think he's even before they do the evil ref story, he's generally seen as like the head ref. He's kind of the head ref. Yeah. Once he comes into the company, I think like inside of a year or two, he's like top ref. The fact that his dad is also producer on the show, it's completely coincidental. I'm sure for the whole process. No disrespect to Nick Patrick. He is a good ref.
00:28:23
Speaker
He said, either make me head referee or I'll wear a mask like my dad does. And it'll look hilarious. So they won't take your matches seriously. They probably wear the same mask as dad wears. It probably actually fit him correctly. It's such a nice snug fit. Now, just to note, if you only count initial referee appearances, Nick Patrick loses one appearance as replacement ref, but remains in first place with 10.
00:28:51
Speaker
Randy Anderson loses a consulting appearance to hit third place with seven, and Silverman loses a replacement appearance, so he retains five initial showings for fourth place alongside Mark Curtis. Gotcha. Yeah, because we use, is it Mickey J that gets, uh, poor Mickey J gets speared by Goldberg, I believe? I believe so, yeah. That spear is a little low, too. A little bit. We've talked about the people with a ton of appearances, but what about the people with the fewest?
00:29:21
Speaker
It's probably no surprise since this is a pretty short series, but there are 78 people who only show up for a single match in any capacity on Spring Stampede. That's probably aided somewhat by that time gap between the first and second shows as well, that you have kind of an era transition happen. For sure. So a lot of people don't come back after 94. Yeah. Or things happen like Steambook retires and stuff like that. Yeah.
00:29:46
Speaker
Of the 78, two of them took home an MVP award for their single appearance. That's Chavo Guerrero Jr. and Ricky the Dragon Steamboat. That's true. Yeah. The latter of whom got it from both of us on his sole appearance. It's quite good. Three actually even took home match of the night honors as competitors for their single appearance. Chavo Guerrero Jr., Ricky the Dragon Steamboat and Ray Traylor as the boss. Oh, right. Yeah.
00:30:12
Speaker
It's worth noting that trailer's opponent, Vader, was also only on one show, but he showed up to interfere in Sting's match too, so he's not counted among the 78. This is people who literally only appeared in one match. Some other interesting people on the list include the great Muda, Steve Austin, Cactus Jack, Roddy Piper, Chris Jericho, and the British Bulldog, who also only had a single appearance in our previous series,
00:30:42
Speaker
Yeah, that's true. Last but not least, let's look at who's taken home the coveted. Let's go to the ring match of the night and MVP awards. So first up, we're going to check for each host who took home the most MVP awards.
00:31:00
Speaker
Now, unusually, I will let you know, neither of us actually gave our MVP to the same person twice this time. Really? Not even one time. Wow. So, I'm wondering, how much of each of our list can you guess? Can you name all five for each of us? Oh, okay. So, first for you. I know you gave it to Stink the one year, for sure. That's one.
00:31:26
Speaker
I must have given DDP one for sure. Probably 97 maybe? Actually, no. Okay, interesting. A lot of things would tell you I gave it to Vader because I really did enjoy his match on that show. I don't know if I gave it to him or not. I don't believe, nope, he is not on the list. Yeah, because it would be only with 94. I think I'd remember the things I picked more than I do when I really... Did I give him to Steamboat? Yes. Yep, so you got Sting and Steamboat. Can you think the other three?
00:31:56
Speaker
I know in my heart he gave one to the parka, even if I didn't officially give one to the parka. There's an honorary one in there for him somewhere. Yeah, definitely. But any show he appears on, even if it's just in the ring with Sting celebrating, he, he gets a chance of making it. This thing is bizarrely saying mama Cita. Yeah. I think he had to rip his deer, didn't I? Yep. He's on there. I know Eddie's using good pick, but he doesn't appear too much match capacity. Right. That's the thing.
00:32:25
Speaker
Give you two more guesses. Okay, I'm not sure I can make one more guesses. Did I already say Booker T? You did not say Booker T yet, but that's one. Okay, there we go. Did I go to Benoit maybe? I always feel weird giving up stuff, you know, all things said. Yeah, no, you did not give one to Benoit. Our last one that you got, you got Ricky Steamboat, Booker T, Ray Mysterio Jr., Sting. The last one was Randy Savage. Oh, right, yeah.
00:32:54
Speaker
So I'll give you five guesses exactly for mine. Okay. DDP's obviously in there somewhere. Yep. I think you gave it to, you gave it to people as well. Didn't you say that? Yes. Okay. Oh, I know. Okay. I know this one. He wanted a giant, I believe, for his promo. Yeah. You're doing better with mine than with yours. It's interesting. Two left. Okay.
00:33:20
Speaker
Oh, thank you to Booker T on 2000. Yep. Or for four. Yeah. Do you know what show I'm missing? They might be able to figure it out that way. I believe it's 98. Do you give it a shot for that match? Can I go? There you go. You got five for five on mine. And we're completely unclear on yours. That's great.
00:33:42
Speaker
Well, I'm paying attention when you gave yours out. I'm glad, honestly, that you pay so much attention to me out and apparently allow my opinions to overwhelm your own. I had the advantage of you giving all the name possibilities as well. Yeah, by that point. All right. So who do you think, out of all those, got the most MVPs overall? There were a couple of names in there, if you recall, that got picked once by each of us. Right. And we both gave it to Steamboat, that one show. Yep.
00:34:12
Speaker
We both give him a GP and they're going to get different shows. Nope. Oh, that's right. You didn't. I did. You didn't. Well, oh yeah, that's weird. I didn't. Oh, cause they gave it to Savage in the other match. Yeah. I think they'd be easiest one. We're going to be just went over it, but, uh, I think Boogert, Boogert, you got picked by both of us. So in there.
00:34:30
Speaker
Those are the two, actually. Yep. Oh, there you go. Okay. Yep. We got two people that got picked twice, but yeah. So first off second with one choice each. We have the giant Chavo Guerrero Jr, Ray Mysterio Jr, DDP, Randy Savage and Sting. And then in first place getting picked twice each. We have Booker T who got picked by each of us, but on two different shows and Ricky Steamboat who got picked by both of us on the same show.
00:34:55
Speaker
Take me back to the very first show, then we both picked Steamboat, I believe. I think so. Then John, I think, picked his match. No, I think you and I picked Steamboat's match for Match of the Night, and then picked someone else for MVP, and John picked Steamboat for MVP, but picked the Piper and Valentine match. Right, yeah.
00:35:18
Speaker
All right. Speaking of match of the night match of the night, participations, and we are only looking at competitors. So who do you think was your number one match of the night choice? El only looking for one name this time. I'm trying to think if I pick two different DDP matches for match of the night. I know I picked one obviously. I feel pretty sure I picked one, but I don't think I didn't pick 2000. Hmm.
00:35:46
Speaker
Not sure. All right, for you with two awards was Booker T. Oh, okay. I think you picked his match with Benoit and then his match with Sting on 2000. Oh, right, yeah, yeah. All right, for me, who do you think competed in my match of the night? Choice is the most. And again, it's one person that got two picks. Feel free to have a DDP. That's correct. Two awards DDP for me. At 99, 2000? I believe it was...
00:36:17
Speaker
Feel like I chose his match with Raven in 98. Okay. I didn't pick of 2000. Or no, that might've been the Chavo one. Hmm. Or did I pick? Yeah, I'm actually not sure. I know I picked his match in 2000, but I can't remember if it was 97s or 98s match. See, the reason I asked the question is that I don't have a great memories. Right, right. I test you, not you test me, dang it.
00:36:41
Speaker
Given all that, who do you think competed in the most matches of the night? Oh, looking for a one name that got total of three votes. Okay. Booker T or DDP. I feel like trying to which one I'm going to go with. I think a Booker T maybe. Okay.
00:36:59
Speaker
In third place, with one award each, we have a nine-way tie. Chris Benoit, Ric Flair, Chavo Guerrero Jr., Jeff Jarrett, Ricky Steamboat, Sting, Ray Traylor, Ultimo Dragon, and Vader. In second place, we have a four-way tie with two votes each.
00:37:18
Speaker
Randy Savage, Billy Kidman, Ray Mysterio Jr., and Booker T. And in first place, with one choice from you and two choices from me for a total of three, Diamond Dallas Page. There you go. Very appropriate. Yeah.
00:37:35
Speaker
All right. Ready to update our overall stats. Okay. So going even further back into the past, we've already established that you and I can't remember crap from this show. Right. Yeah. All right. So these are stats covering every wrestling show that we've covered. So this includes collision in Korea, but does not include ready to rumble. Okay. Nothing about that is wrestling. Yeah. Even though it doesn't look like it is.
00:38:02
Speaker
So, appearances as a match competitor overall. Got a guess? Who's number one? Wow. I know DDP definitely moved up from the last couple of serieses. I don't know if he's number one, but he definitely moved up in the world. Flair's held pretty strong too, for sure. Though he didn't have as good a showing in this series, unfortunately. One more than another.
00:38:27
Speaker
It stings, though. Thing was up there pretty high. All right. Third place with 26 match competitor appearances is Lex Luger. Ah, right. In second place with 31 Rick Flair. Right. And in first place with 34 appearances so far as a match competitor. This is Sting. All right.
00:38:52
Speaker
The standings on there have not actually changed since the last time we did this, but it is worth noting that Scott Steiner and Rick Steiner are now on Luker's tail with 23 and 22 appearances respectively. So a little bit more from them and they might take third. Okay, sounds good. But that's overall match appearances. So what about main events? Who do you think has had the most main events? It's gotta be Sting or Flare. I think Sting probably overall, I'd say. Okay.
00:39:21
Speaker
In third place, with six, we have Big Van Vader. All right. In second place, with 13, Sting. Oh, okay. And in first place, still holding strong, with 18, is Ric Flair. And he picked just the one in this series, but still he had a pretty good lead. Yeah. People are creeping up on him, but he has such a commanding lead from the Starrcade series. Right, right. It's hard to catch up to him.
00:39:47
Speaker
At some point you'd think it could end up being Hogan, but as we discussed, he's maybe not as much as we think he is. He's just so obvious a figure that you think that he's at the top of the card more often than he actually is, yeah. These are again the same as the last time that we took a look, but there's a notable change in fourth place as DDP is now tied with Hulk Hogan at five main events each.
00:40:11
Speaker
This series really rocketed DDP up the list, giving him another three. I would say, yeah. It only gave Hogan one more. Right. All right. Commentators. So first place is pretty obvious. So again, I'm going to see, can you guess one, two and three? I feel like I know it's pretty steady. Probably Shavani thought it was number one. I think he is still probably number two. Hmm. I feel like just because he said a lot, Erlen, especially in the series, probably
00:40:41
Speaker
probably dusty then I know you totally hope it's dusty okay in third place with 104 matches JR oh right he didn't get any new matches this series so he dropped a third guy was second last time actually in second place with a hundred and thirty seven matches he overtook JR this time Bobby the brain he didn't all right
00:41:06
Speaker
And in first place, obviously, with 231 matches is Tony Schiavone. That's 94 more matches than his closest competitor. Referees. Here we are again now. Yeah, right. My favorite category. So looking at all referee appearances. So that's every time they appear doing referee duties, like I discussed last time, not just if they were the initial assigned one. Who do you think is in first place?
00:41:35
Speaker
I feel like it's still going to be Patrick because he's pretty consistent across the board. All right. In third place, this one surprised me with 24 referee appearances is Mike Atkins. Surprisingly, he was not overtaken despite not having any appearances in this latest series. That's the old timey saloon reference. Yes. Old timey saloon reference. That's how I know him. I'm going to make sure I get the right person. Okay.
00:42:00
Speaker
In second place, quite a bit higher up with 58 appearances is Randy Anderson. And in first place, way ahead with 77, Nick Patrick. Yeah. The positions do not change at all if we only use initial ref appearances, by the way. Matkin stays the same at 24. He has never been anything but the initial assigned ref on any of the things we've covered so far.
00:42:23
Speaker
Anderson loses two appearances and stays in second at 56, and Patrick loses three appearances but retains first place easily at 74. MVP choices again. So first up, we're going to go by host. L, who do you think you have chosen the most for MVP across every show that we've watched?
00:42:45
Speaker
I feel like it's got to be Sting, because he's a good solid pick on so many shows for me. All right. So with seven choices, it is Sting. All right. And me? Ooh. I feel like it's got to be DDP or Flair can definitely sneak in there as well. I don't know, Flair. More from the back catalog from this series, because he didn't. He has showings in these series, but not quite the same level. Yeah.
00:43:14
Speaker
I feel like I'm gonna go with Flair. Okay. You are half right. Oh, okay. Because it's a tie. Oh, okay. With four choices each, I have Rick Flair and Sting. Though interestingly, neither of them actually got any choices from me on this series. Yeah. Do you remember John's? Not as much, no. I know he's the only one that ever picked Glacier.
00:43:44
Speaker
Yes. I remember that one. I remember that being such a weird choice, but both of us really pretty much agreeing with it for the show. Yeah. Yeah. Dude in a video package actually is better than 90% of what's going on. All right. With three choices. Dusty roads. Oh, of course.
00:44:07
Speaker
So for all of us together, who do you think got the most MVP awards? Including yours, mine, and John's votes. Probably Sting then, I would say, based on that. All right. In third place, we have Diamond Dallas Page. He's got six so far. All right. In second place, Rick Flair. He's gotten eight, all from previous series.
00:44:31
Speaker
And in first place, this is Sting with 13 MVP awards putting him far out in front. Oh, yeah. Wow. All right. Finally, Match of the Night competitors. So again, we'll go by host first. So Al, who do you think you picked most for Match of the Night so far? Hmm.
00:44:54
Speaker
Say probably Flair or Sting. All right. Sting got eight awards from you. All right. So it is Sting. Gotcha. For me? Mm. I think yours might be Flair. I think you need a little more towards Flair than I do. All right. You are, again, half right. Because Rick Flair is tying with somebody again with seven awards each. Rick Flair and Diamond Dallas Page. Gotcha. And from John?
00:45:22
Speaker
Ooh. I know Piper got a couple of times from him in a two random very spaced out appearance. It's in Starrcade. Going with Piper then? Sure. Okay. That is not Piper. It is the road warriors, hawk and animal jointly with four. That makes sense. Yeah. Once you read it, you're like, Oh yeah. But then I forgotten that too.
00:45:49
Speaker
So for all of us together, who got the most match of the night competitor appearances? They're probably still staying. I want to think. All right. Third place. We have Ricky, the dragon steamboat with 12 makes sense. Yeah. And that's amazing. Actually, considering he's not on that many shows, right? But almost every time he shows up, he gets one or more of our. Yes. Second place we have Rick flair with 13.
00:46:17
Speaker
And in first place was 16 is sting. All right. That's the same group as last time we did this, actually just adding one match each. Yeah. So shall we check in on our old pal Tully Blanchard? Sure.
00:46:33
Speaker
Our surprise winner of the Starrcade match of the night is still pretty high up on the list, so he's dropped down a little from last time. In seventh place with still his eight choices that we got on the Starrcade series is Tully Blanchard. In sixth place with nine is Arran Anderson. Okay. In fifth place with 10 is Vader. Naturally.
00:46:56
Speaker
And in fourth place, with 11, Diamond Dallas Page. There you go. Whose name just keeps coming up right now. Yeah, we get into certain years and certain times. I really hope we'll get more, get the more dominant appearance of the Fader and then go up. Yeah. It'll be interesting to see when we go back to the eighties. I don't think there's any chance of him catching back up to the leaders now, but it'll be interesting to see if Blanchard climbs the rankings again a little when we get back to the late eighties.
00:47:24
Speaker
Yeah, cause he had the one match of Sambury. I don't think he went and picked that. No, it was, it was, it was solid, but it wasn't a bad match, but just a blowaway match. Like his, his previous ones kind of just happened and then ended and you're like, Oh, okay. It was like, Oh, it was nice to see Tully again. Yeah. With all the data out of the way, it's time to give out some series awards.
00:47:46
Speaker
So each show, we've awarded our Match of the Night and MVP, but now we're gonna look at things across the entire series. So to start off, we're gonna go for our series MVPs. This is three people in no particular order who you thought were the MVPs of the entire series. So Al, who are yours? All right, so...
00:48:11
Speaker
First choice is fairly obvious. He has good performances throughout the series and his obvious rise in rankings of the series. DDP makes it on there. Absolutely. At no point do we have a match for DDP just gonna go, oh, that's not very good. Or, oh, this is the pointing. Even 99, which he didn't love as much as you did, for instance, I don't think he was bad at it at all. He has yet to take away from a match. I don't know if he ever will necessarily.
00:48:34
Speaker
And even in 94, when he's just figuring out who he is still as a character, he gave a very solid performance on that one. Yeah, he's not, he's not an anchor. We've seen any matches as good. Does that get in the name of your many times in the last several minutes? Sting.
00:48:50
Speaker
Especially for me in the later runs, like in 2000, he's a real saving grace because, as I said before, so many people get all of the interesting stuff sort of stripped away from them. Hogan loses his bread in yellow, with his thin pairs of vitamins, and he's just terrible at wearing a black vest and getting gun pointed on him by cops. That was so freaky. It is very, yeah.
00:49:13
Speaker
Or Flair doesn't wear his robes anymore, just comes out dressed like he's going to fight someone golf course. When members of the audience are dressed better than Flair, that's not good. Yeah. So on that show, especially Thing, we're already in black and white, so I guess I can't take his colors away from him. Other than maybe when he used to wear the neon scorpion jacket. Yeah. Hey, he's lost that, I suppose. But he still kept his Mortal Kombat scorpion logo. Oh, of course, yeah.
00:49:41
Speaker
And he don't have one show where he wears weird white boots like he has a 90- ah, it's slippery. Right. Edge is very distracting, I don't know why that is. It just looks so weird, I mean.
00:49:51
Speaker
Outside of that, there's a lot of people that they don't necessarily make, like say, my ultimate slam, re-card, but they're really reliable. The guy who found most reliable putting aside other stuff that happened with him is Chris Benoit. His match performances, even when he makes some questionable choices like diving headbutt onto a chair on a guy's head at a side, he is really good performances with the name Linco who
00:50:19
Speaker
If I was picking more than three, Demelinko would probably make it in there. He's a solid hand through all his appearances. You don't quite get the breakout character moment, per se, like you do on Slamboree, with his more angry performance. Oh, yeah. Jericho. Are we the biggest pop of his career? Amazing, amazing pop. Yeah. Yeah.
00:50:37
Speaker
But Benoit's there and it's really solid. He's one of the guys that definitely missed in 2000 because he famously left the company in January of that year. Again, not like him being there or as I said before, man being replaced by Heenan would have made 2000 a good show. But swapping one guy out, at least one guy in a match with Benoit quality wise, it definitely helped performances in the show.
00:50:59
Speaker
I feel like we at the very least wouldn't have gotten that moment on the show where Tony just starts playing with his paper and not paying attention to what his co-announcers are saying. Yes. If you had Hina on there. Yeah, exactly. Hina would be like, cheer up, Tony. Come on. I can make you laugh. Yeah, exactly. Because a lot of people, they just kind of barely don't quite make it in. Billy Kim is an example. He comes up really well. Her mystery is always really good.
00:51:23
Speaker
There's a lot of people with very, very good appearances on this and some of them are just, they don't appear enough times. Yeah. But there's a ton of great performances on this series. Yeah, I basically had to narrow down my third pick between Booker T or Benoit. I'm back and forth one time and Benoit overall for me. All right. So for mine in no particular order.
00:51:47
Speaker
Diamond Dallas Page, definitely. There is no way that I can do an MVP list for Spring Stampede without DDP. It's basically his series. It shows more than any other series the rise of DDP from opening match guy to main event worthy performer to world champ and reliable feature at the top of the card.
00:52:05
Speaker
And what makes it best is that he quickly proves himself very worthy of his new position and showcases every single time he shows up what makes him great. Page's dedication and drive give us great performances time and time again of the five main events on the series he has three of them. And he entirely deserves everyone. Agreed, yeah. Next up, Booker T. Okay.
00:52:30
Speaker
Aside from one very notable promo flub on this series, from which he at least recovered very well, Booker was just an enormously consistent performer with good or at least solid match performances on 1997, 1998, 1999, and even surprisingly 2000.
00:52:51
Speaker
And last up for me, Randy Savage. Okay. As the other half of DDP's biggest moment, Savage selflessly gave all he had to help DDP achieve greatness and solidify his position in the main event tier for the rest of WCW's run. Aside from that excellent match, Savage had a good performance on 1998's show against Sting, providing a good dastardly heel for Sting to fight.
00:53:15
Speaker
And though I had some issues with the ending of the 1999 four-way world title match, Savage was still a fun addition to it and his flexing counts made me giggle. Right. He's a great, reliable performer on the series with one particularly awesome performance that made another wrestler.
00:53:33
Speaker
Yet for me, I didn't like 98 as much. I think part of that problem is because we cover that show civically. You have the DP Raven, no DQ, Matt. Oh, right. Yeah. They fight out to the front and they fight back in there. Follow immediately by sting and ready Savage, essentially doing the same thing, but with less.
00:53:51
Speaker
Yeah, I fully agree on that. I just still thought that's still a good solid match between the two of them and Savage pulls off some very fun stuff with it. And to be honest and fair as well. Brandy Savage is working legitimately really hurt in this match.
00:54:07
Speaker
I think if they didn't need him for the story and they couldn't find a way around it, having a window child just to lose it to Hogan the next night is yay. It would have helped because I would have given him a chance to recover more than he ever really got to. So it's not his fault that he's working hurt and can't quite do anything as well. But yeah, he's not bad 98. It's just yeah, it's a little drop down for me. Whereas people like Ben one never really had a drop down.
00:54:33
Speaker
And I think even that statement that you just made that, you know, he's working hard in 98 and he still manages to have a perfectly acceptable match against Sting and pull off some very fun stuff in it. I think that actually makes it even more evident why he should be on there for me. That he has two years of honestly really selfless behavior, one for just making a new performer and giving everything he has for that.
00:54:58
Speaker
and two for doing what he feels he has to do for the good of company working hurt not a good idea necessarily but it is a very selfless thing to do yeah.
00:55:15
Speaker
All right. Starting with my man Vader. First him and the boss man. I did rewatch that sighting this the other day. It still looked really well. Vader is really good at being this big destructive force, which he does really well against boss man.
00:55:35
Speaker
But in this match, you see him selling a lot more. So he really gets the idea that boss man really can take him down. He can strike him just the right way and legitimately bust him open as he does. Like twice in the match. And he seems like he generally has a chance against him. So it's both Vader being really strong, having good performance. Never mind the fact that he does the Vader assault. That glorious thing on the series is always fun to see.
00:56:03
Speaker
And what's nice about that one too is, though I recall feeling like they may be stuck with boss man offense a little bit too long, they nevertheless managed to do it really well where boss gets to look strong against Vader because you're using Vader's reputation, as you pointed out, of being this really tough guy and showing, oh my gosh, boss is tough enough to injure him, but they never devalued Vader in the process. So it's really, that's a tough balance to get that they fail a lot on other shows like with him versus Axl, Jim Duggan, the one. Oh yeah, right.
00:56:32
Speaker
But this one, they really do a good job of saying, we're only building up boss here. We're not devaluing Vader. Exactly. Yeah. Hardening match, really enjoyable. And again, Vader salt.
00:56:43
Speaker
I'm not too sure that's probably on yours is the DDP versus my savage match. 997 is really enjoyable to me. They made a good use of the full space they had. They use the area and use the arrangement there. Anyway, only DDP fittingly enough and Raven did as well and or better 98 the next year.
00:57:05
Speaker
It tells a great story of how DDP is a valiant face, savages the dash to heal who can take shortcuts, or just knows the right time to counter and hit you with the, say, clothesline or a punch to stop you as your valiant comebacks. And again, he takes the pain pin fall and legitimately sold the diamond cutter for a good minute or so. He's out for a while. Yeah, which is I always appreciate when people do that. Yeah.
00:57:31
Speaker
And obviously very, as we mentioned, very historically important because it shows that DDP can be a main eventer. The selflessness that not a lot of people at his position necessarily wanted to show for people, either because they were given the chance to or were willing to.
00:57:47
Speaker
And lastly, I have the Rick Flair Ricky Steamboat match from the very first show. It's Rick Flair Ricky Steamboat. It's really good. Unlike some of the matches, they don't go so long that they repeat a little bit as enjoyable as their longer matches can be.
00:58:02
Speaker
Sometimes run out of unique things to do sometimes. So they go back to the walkable times, which can work if you're doing it, just subvert the audience, having a guy go for trademark move, but then be counted. Sometimes they just do it again and it works both times.
00:58:18
Speaker
The other thing is when you were talking about the match, when you were to watch it, you really got into the nuances of how the fact that Steamboat, well, never ever in his career turned heel. He shows more aggression and sort of more determination and he sort of leans towards direction and he might cross a line to beat Flare, but doesn't do that.
00:58:38
Speaker
Yeah, there's one point in the match. I distinctly remember where Tony Schiavone says, Oh, I think Steamboat was going for a chair there, but he saw a bokwinkle and stopped. And it's an indication of how well Steamboat was towing the line in his performance. That didn't sound ridiculous to me. Yeah.
00:58:55
Speaker
More normally, you'd hear someone say that, you'd expect that to be Hienen saying it to Tony because it'd be an obvious blatant lie. But in this case, he was doing this wonderful line toing where it's just like, no, he's so frustrated with flair that he might just cross that line. And it was a really powerful performance there. Agreed. All right, my three. Okay.
00:59:15
Speaker
I will agree with you. Rick Flair versus Ricky Steamboat absolutely has to be on there. It is Rick Flair versus Ricky Steamboat. That alone is enough. But it goes beyond that with both especially Steamboat evolving their characters mid-match, showing the weight of their shared histories, each as frustration with the way the other gets out of every predicament, the sheer difficulty of beating or even getting a sustained advantage against an opponent who knows your every move.
00:59:40
Speaker
Add one of the best transitions into a figure four I have ever seen. By Steamboat, actually, as he caught Flair's knee drop and slapped the hold on from there. Some wonderfully intricate counter sequences. And just the plain fact that 25 minutes in these two were capable of wrestling just as quickly and precisely as in the opening minutes.
01:00:00
Speaker
And you've got a masterpiece. Agreed. The only slight mark against the match is the complicated, not bad, but complicated double pin ending. And that's nowhere near enough to overwhelm over a half hour of sheer greatness. Agreed. My second one. Okay. Altimo Dragon versus Chavo Guerrero Jr. That was Bring Stampede 1998. Yeah.
01:00:23
Speaker
I found this a brilliant combination of exceptional, fast-paced action and great storyline, involving not just the competitors, but Eddie Guerrero as well. The tremendous ring action combines rapid striking, crisp power moves, crazy high-flying, and intricate matwork and holds. The quality of performance there alone was enough to easily make my top ten.
01:00:46
Speaker
What pushes it above the others, though, is the fact that all of that is intermingled expertly with Eddie and Chavo's storyline, with Chavo fighting for freedom from his nefarious Uncle Eddie, but unwilling to cheat or dishonor himself to do it, and Eddie hurling abuse at him at every turn, mocking and berating him and trying to corrupt him.
01:01:06
Speaker
The storyline and match meld very, very well, with just enough interaction between Chavo and Eddie to enhance the story without overshadowing the match itself. It makes the match feel meaningful on a deeper level than many. It's not just about victory, it's about what Chavo is willing to do to attain it.
01:01:23
Speaker
And last up, as you guessed, Diamond Dallas Page versus the Macho Man Randy Savage from Spring Stampede 1997. Speaking of meaningful matches, this match carried incredible importance, not just on screen, but off his DDP's chance at the big time, his shot at proving that he can work as a main event performer and the focus of a show.
01:01:45
Speaker
and man did he ever nail it. DDP and Savage put on a well-crafted, tightly plotted match as only they could, providing a variety of action that played to both strengths and provided some great character moments, all wrapped up in an angry, forceful confrontation that was brutal from start to finish and never let up.
01:02:06
Speaker
Savage did his best to make Paige look like a million bucks, and Paige proved that he could rise to main event level with a truly star-making performance. If we're talking matches of the series, the sheer importance of this one makes it worthy, but it helps that it's an awesome match as well. Agreed, yeah. Now the awards nobody wants. So first up, our least valuable performers.
01:02:33
Speaker
So these are the people that either didn't add anything or actively took away from the shows. So with this one, I will let you pick up to three. Okay. So shouldn't be a surprise, but first one I have on here is Hollywood Hogan.
01:02:48
Speaker
This isn't one of those series like, say, Starrcade, where you have just, like, a truly terrible match, like, Starrcade 94. Right. Or his really, really ego-driven stuff, where, you know, he takes five finishers, pops up, and wins. Or, famously, he takes a Rainside Double Drop to wake himself up. Right. Which happens on a Clash Championship, which is so ridiculous. I forgot about that. He's someone who gets powered up by taking... She moves in the industry.
01:03:15
Speaker
One thing I experienced also is Braddock. So he's like the big folks in the company and him being so infrequent with theirs, a little thing. When he does appear, I wasn't a huge fan of the tag team, Basal Ben, the pole match. For me, it felt a lot like.
01:03:32
Speaker
He's just doing a lot of house show stick. It only really sort of gets better towards the end when they get more intense and they have, the turn from him isn't too bad at a kind of work storyline wise. Maybe he's in his fault, but the big moment that should be really most important is not even shown on Spring Stampede when he goes back out and attacks Renny Savage and Kevin Nash. They show you on the night show after. Oh, by the way, this happened. You probably know this happened.
01:04:00
Speaker
That's a time management thing. There's a lot of awkwardness to his performances. Yeah. Like you said, it's not necessarily his fault a lot of the time, but it can't be denied. There's a lot of awkwardness to his performances. It also just occurred to me that it's interesting. 1994 is they're talking frequently about Hulk Hogan's coming. Hulk Hogan's coming. We skip a couple of years then. We're at 1997. Again, the show is about
01:04:22
Speaker
Hogan's appearing later. That's an interesting other tie between the shows that I didn't detect at first. Right. And the other thing with Hogan, obviously, he does shove Randy Savage off the top rope, which is a planned spot. It's like he goes off script or anything, but he has legitimately injured Randy Savage in that, so that doesn't help my opinion to him.
01:04:43
Speaker
I was gonna feel bad, honestly, about picking people that don't have multiple appearances. But sometimes when their appearances is so bad, you really have to. So I have a hardcore hack.
01:04:54
Speaker
Yeah he was he was he was in the running for mine too. He can't I mean his old thing is he uses weapons in a creative way uh like you know Russian leg sweep on you know on a barricade or just like swinging stuff around and he's like seemingly half drunk which is not super surprising with him and the way he delivers his weird cells on things landing wrong
01:05:17
Speaker
That one point where he tries to suplex Bigelow and just drops him on his own knee nearly breaks his dain leg. Yeah, it's... Right. He can't even do his own shtick properly, which is definitely an art against him. Yeah.
01:05:31
Speaker
With the third choice, I'm back and forth on this one. Do I include people that appear only once? And the other thing is, is it a case where they perform badly and I say I expect something from him? Like I was tempted to include either Mancow or too hard for that match they had. But at the same time, I wouldn't do Mancow because he's not even a wrestler. So I can't go, oh, Mancow, his other forms are so much better, you know. His match with Flair is amazing.
01:05:59
Speaker
Though that would be a major test of the flare broom theory, right? Yes. And do very, very hard is around wrestling. I hope he would know wrestling better, but he also doesn't do wrestling like the move wise. And that point he's like, is only 50. So yeah, I feel bad. I'd feel bad putting him on there because he had no other chance to use a sports comparison. If you're not a team that's not doing great and you're the kicker.
01:06:24
Speaker
So you only appear like twice to make a field goal. You have very few chances to do things right. So if you miss one of your field goals at a two, that's a bad average for you. You have to throw a little chance to fix it. So I was tempted not to pick a third person, honestly. I mean, do I put Norman Spiley because his one appearance is so grating and nonsensical and it's rarely attempted to.
01:06:51
Speaker
I think if we're going to look at people long-term, and this is probably why he's the third person I pick, they say Scott Steiner, just because he really had to fight to get his forensics to know what he could do. You know he could have these matches where he just hardly moves and doesn't stop and spend three minutes yelling at the crowd. Doesn't become Scott Stoner.
01:07:14
Speaker
Yes, there you go. Doesn't have women like rubbing his pecs or anything. You see glimpses of that, oddly on the worst show, where two or three matches he does a pretty good job of that, but not being distracted by the crowd. But at the same time, you also have the weird thing where somehow he blinds the wall in his first match. Yes. And the wall came in between him, the giant ball of bustle and the referee. Yeah. So he has that dumb finish.
01:07:42
Speaker
Well, he's not the worst forums on the whole series. It takes so much to get him to have a good performance. And it's frustrating because you know he can do it. There's repeated annoyances with him that just kind of keep coming back. Yeah. Yeah. He was in the running for mine too and it feels bad to say that because it's Scott Steiner and he's good. But on this series, he was very infrequently good.
01:08:03
Speaker
Right. There's certain people that kind of escape this, unless they especially screw up, like say Buff Bagwell, because I don't set a high bar for Buff Bagwell. He could just sort of step over that hurdle probably without too much effort. Well, for mine, they're all in there because of a single show. Kind of figured. But they were responsible for a great deal on that single show. Okay. So my first choice is Vince Russo. Ah.
01:08:31
Speaker
Not only was he in large part responsible for the absolute disaster that was Spring Stampede 2000, he was even nice enough to come out on camera and awkwardly interfere in one of the matches and even failed at putting on a shirt. True. He gave us the only actual bad show on this series. And then when, what's the opposite of above and beyond? Below and before? Yeah. Something like that. Sure. That.
01:08:56
Speaker
His compatriot, by the way, Eric Bischoff, who was also probably in large part responsible for Spring Stampede 2000 escapes being on this list because he was also probably in large part responsible for 97, 98, and 99. So he gave us several good shows that he was in part responsible for before the bad show.
01:09:15
Speaker
And his on-camera work in general was good. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, I generally found him, even on 2000, he was actually, I was considering him for MVP for 2000 because his on-camera work was actually really strong on that show. I think it only held back by him being a bit too stone-faced in the DDP versus Jarrett match. Yeah. Which I think was him trying not to give away things. But it was weird, it was like, yeah, do I really think he's there to help for DDP? They needed him to come out later, I think, and it would have been fine.
01:09:44
Speaker
My second one, Mark Madden. Spring Stampede 2000 is already awful. Mark Madden constantly makes it worse. With a wide variety of horrible offensive jokes and nonsensical comments, Madden is a constant presence on the show and I found him wearing on my already frayed nerves. He's bad enough when the action in the ring is at least okay, but when the action and the angles are as bad as they tend to be on 2000, Madden makes things far, far worse.
01:10:14
Speaker
Even Tony just kind of starts ignoring him towards the end of the show, playing with papers on his desk rather than paying any attention to him. Yeah.
01:10:22
Speaker
A good commentator can make a bad show watchable, as we found with Bobby Heenan on Starrcade 94, I recall you mentioning. Yeah, yeah. Madden can make a good show near unwatchable, and 2000 is far, far from a
Madden's TV Persona: Real or Fictional?
01:10:35
Speaker
good show. Yeah. And I think we can pretty much say without any uncertainty, you don't want Madden calling the match involving a woman in any capacity. No, no. Like near the ring, even adjacent to the ring.
01:10:47
Speaker
I dearly hope that is just the character he's playing on TV because, my goodness, what a horrible, horrible person he's playing.
01:10:55
Speaker
Yeah, I'd be curious to listen to him because he has a radio show or I think he has a podcast because everyone has podcasts. Yes. If too nobody is like us can get a podcast, Mark Madden can certainly get a podcast. Right, right. I'd be curious to hear some of that. Is he still that way or not? I'd be surprised if he was. I mean, it really feels like it's got to be just an over the top thing he's doing for TV.
01:11:18
Speaker
But especially since the only thing I know about from him in WCW before this point is when he reports Bill Watts racism. That sounds like more of a stand-up guy than what he appears to be when he gets on the 2000 shows. Other than that, his off-camera stuff, or very frequently on camera today, because the occasional show in the back, he was the guy to ask the leading questions on the website.
01:11:47
Speaker
Well, that poor guy's got to type out the random thoughts that
Critique of Commentaries in Spring Stampede 2000
01:11:50
Speaker
people, that guy had to show at some point. Just for having, just get the most complicated and bizarre promo. Like if Savage does one or something like that, or if warrior did one of those when he came in, then that guy will get MVP for having to transcribe that. Yeah, exactly. And my last one, Scott Hudson. Okay.
01:12:13
Speaker
The third member of the 2000 commentary team does not normally tick me off this much. But on Spring Stampede 2000, he just seemed completely off his game.
01:12:23
Speaker
Not that it was an easy show to call, but Hudson often made very little sense, misunderstanding comments or jokes in frankly bizarre fashion. Worse, in an attempt to make 2000 look like something other than a dumpster fire, he frequently dramatically oversold the action, calling matches like they were epics, and assigning them unearned praise.
01:12:43
Speaker
Even the show's few good matches like Sting vs Booker T suffered from moments like that where I just found it was hard to enjoy what they were doing well because Hudson, and again, Madden, kept calling the match like it was the greatest thing since Flair Steamboat. It's a good match, but they're treating it like it's the conclusion to a months-long feud and an hour-long epic match.
01:13:04
Speaker
Which one was the one that would always was always talking about how they've used everything in their arsenal? That's both of them. Yeah. I think Hudson starts that and then Madden continues and they're like, oh, no, they haven't blatantly have not used everything. We haven't seen any of their finishers yet at all. Exactly. Yeah. Hudson was just so insincere on 2000 that it hurt even good moments that that show had.
01:13:26
Speaker
Right. He's a decent straight man in general, but yeah, he was not good in that show. I haven't had a major problem with him on most of the other times that we've seen him. Yeah. I think there's been one or two comments that we've criticized occasionally, but he's just kind of generic announcer guy for most of the time. But man, on Springstand P2000, he was just taking me off and getting in the way of me even trying to enjoy the show.
Evaluating Wrestlers: Norman Smiley and Others
01:13:50
Speaker
So those are so bad Norman Smiley escapes your wrath. That's impressive. Yes. Well, I still kind of hold out this little bit of love for Norman in my heart for that 1998 performance against Prince Iakea, where he was like brilliant technical wrestler. Right. So I don't I don't hate Norman Smiley. I like Norman Smiley. And that's exactly why I'm always so disappointed with hardcore Norman Smiley.
01:14:11
Speaker
No, yeah, I agree. That's the thing. He's shown he can do so much better. And his future from the show and his past to us now is, of course, when he retires and trains people in WWE and other places. And you can totally see why. I mean, he's a good technical wrestler and knows how to put a match together. It's surprising. I always have wondered and have never been able to find if there's some story behind that, like if you got injured or something and just couldn't do that. But it just seems like it's a
01:14:39
Speaker
re-gimmicking that they just think that's what works and it doesn't. Yeah, it's a case of them taking a guy and use the history of WSW of this. Guys that can perform but don't have that sort of just a qua or like some extra flash of the performance. Brett Armstrong sat out with so many gimmicks like Arachna Man and Candy Man and Roadkill, I believe. He's good. Just slap an America jacket on him and let him wrestle. Yeah, exactly.
01:15:07
Speaker
I think that's really what it is with Norma Zamali. Yeah.
Worst Matches in Wresting Series
01:15:12
Speaker
Worst matches of the series. So pick up to three. All right. I'll see how much ours overlap. Yeah, I'll stick with this. I definitely didn't pick one. I don't hate as much as you do. I want to know you all have your your say on solely that for you. OK, I will start out with Norma Zamali versus Terry Funk from Rick Steppi 2000. It's dumb. It's nonsensical.
01:15:36
Speaker
He's hiding, so when someone comes over, he yells, so you won't find him? Apparently, everyone hates him because they're constantly trying to point him out. The people backstage sell him out to Terry Funk. The stupid spot's like dumping a bunch of diet coke cans on the guy, sending a guy on a table that's clearly not designed to break from this big plastic table. Oh my gosh, yeah, that one's so cute. And just sort of tipping over and just whatever. The most mildly famous is trying to escape three feet away from a guy while he watches the climb up the ladder.
01:16:05
Speaker
to a pipe that would be in his vision, even if he hadn't seen you do. Yes. And you're still quite in reach. And of course, as I mentioned, covering the hardcore matches, even though this is all just stupid fun. The game shows concussions and nasty grizzly chair shots like hitting the back of Terry Funk's head.
01:16:25
Speaker
him leading into the laptop shots are the scariest thing to me in that match because you can see those are hitting very hard and he's lunging his face into them. Yes. And it's just like that will not be good for you. Yeah, like no, no, none of them are as concussion heavy as the start of the historic eight 2000. I believe him and crowbar are talking about brothers. Yes.
01:16:50
Speaker
Because the unpacked a tear shot. Oh, God, that one was that I guess trying to do the Brock McFolley thing. But first off, don't and second off, not as well. And you accept the drop and also put the handcuffs on behind the person's back front. Yeah.
01:17:08
Speaker
But yeah, so those are not good. Uh, second, second is one that others at the time, if you look at the names of people involved, it should be really good. If you consider what year the show takes place in, you still expect more from it. And unfortunately I did not get that from the Kurt Henning British Bulldog match from 98.
01:17:28
Speaker
I think it's the case, like with Savage, we're leading up on the same show. Hennig is too hard to be working, but he's Hennig and he just won't get all up too hard and can't work the show. Unless he literally can't wake up in the morning and get out of bed. So he could barely move.
01:17:43
Speaker
Bridge Bulldog because of a number of things injuries and such this is before the famous trap door fall right there But he had a lot of problems before that and his personal demons. Let's say is the Cobra they use like that
01:17:59
Speaker
Most people that have had classic matches within 10 years of this show and it's just a boring punch cake match. It's slow enough until the guy starts working the leg of a guy and it's even worse. And of course you have all the nonsense like you have rude handcuff to night heart.
01:18:20
Speaker
who's also not wearing a shirt for some reason, which is weird. Going for a real, like, cops at 3 a.m. vibe with Nightheart. With being handcuffed and shirtless. That's true. And laughing and crazy. The fact that it barely keeps Ruth interfering, Ruth can get 90% of the way in the ring before he's pulled out. And of course, the cop.
01:18:44
Speaker
I still don't know how this is supposed to make any sense. They had a legitimate cop do the handcuffing. And at some point he like backs at a camera frame. They was like chloroform him and swap him out with Virgil slash Vincent. Maybe what it actually is, is Virgil like quantum leaped into him. Oh, gotcha. But it's it's clearly not. It's not like it's a good disguise of Vincent as the result. It's not Vincent.
01:19:12
Speaker
Right, no, no, it's an actual police officer or the actor playing a police officer. It's not Bintin anyway, yeah. I guess his back's at a camera frame and they swap him out, body's natural style. It's all the elaborate things that can beat up Nite Heart and Bitch Bulldog with a stick and they leave.
01:19:30
Speaker
Uh, and, uh, I have two picks for this time. I was back and forth on it. I think to be nice, I'm not going to go with my second choice. So I know there's no way to be nice with picking worst matches, but I'm trying. Okay. So my third pick for worst matches series is this go in front of his Conan. Oh, okay.
01:19:52
Speaker
So it's not like the worst work match. I mean, they don't botch stuff all the time. Like we see it like on Slambry 2000, that match between two people that should be able to work a match and just mess with every other move they try to do. But it's such a badly produced slash book match.
01:20:10
Speaker
where it's just 90% of this Conferno dominating Conan with offensive will get not terrible. It's not impressive. It's not like he's some big power wrestler who can throw Conan around like, wow, this is amazing to see what he can do. It's generic heel offense that should come a few minutes into a match and then go away for the end, but starts out like right away and just takes up so much of the match.
01:20:36
Speaker
Conan gets his big comeback and wins with almost little effort after being controlled so much. Also, it didn't quite hit his move right where it says his weird suplex. That's almost an E.T. where he lets him go and it looks awkward. So it's a badly booked match that's not interesting and it's not worth it. For the record, the match I was tied between was that and the Man Cow and Jimmy Hard match. Oh, okay. That would be nice without picking them. All right, all right, all right.
01:21:05
Speaker
I, I was less nice. Okay. So my first of my three matches is mankind versus Jimmy. Well, there you go. Let's say your piece on it then. Yep.
01:21:14
Speaker
I know this was short. I know it's between a manager and a radio personality. I know I shouldn't have expectations for it, but it was just so bad. Agreed. Even lowering my expectations, this was awful. So much so that it had to be clear when planning the show that it was going to be awful, but they still put it on.
01:21:39
Speaker
There just could not have been any expectation that this would be anything but terrible and yet they still chose to put it on the show. And that is what makes it worthy of my list. They knew this was going to suck. Yes. And they did not come up with some other plan.
01:21:54
Speaker
So I know there's two things about that. One, why is it not a dark match for the Chicago crowd? Yes. They've done matches like this before. Who gives a crap about Mancow outside of Chicago at that point, right? Right. So yeah, just do a dark match like you did with the Brady Bunch versus Partridge family one early in the series. That one I wanted to have on the show, dang it, because that would have been hilarious.
01:22:17
Speaker
Right. Right. Now, as I said, on covering that show, Bischoff on his podcast, his defense of the match is look all up motions we got with Mancow hyping the show because he's going to be on it. But then before you could have just made him like a guest host or backstage ring announcer or manager for he picks a wrestler to sponsor and give me heart sponsor kale or whatever his name was. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. There's other things they could have done when they realized, wow, this is going to be a steaming pile of monkey crap. Right.
01:22:47
Speaker
The other thing about this batch as far as the show said before, it's terrible placement for it. Yeah. It's the second batch. The second match on a 14. I think the only place they could have placed it that would have been worse is first. Right. Because it would have like set at the tone for the show with this pile of crap.
01:23:06
Speaker
Right. I mean, yeah, if you're going to have this match, I would say put it after all of the initial matches, put it after the tag matches. Make it the bathroom break. Yeah. Make it after break and make it a separation between tournament. Yeah. But better. Just don't do it. Yeah. Even better. Don't do it a second time, a different show. Yeah. Which they do. My second match. That was all just one.
01:23:32
Speaker
Terry Funk versus Norman Smiley, Spring Stampede 2000, total agreement. Though this was a little better than their Slampery 2000 showing it was not better by much. It was just plain stupid, stupid and dangerous. It was filled with dumb spots where people did things that they just wouldn't do. And the performers took enormous, totally unnecessary risk with each other's safety. And my third match,
01:24:00
Speaker
Bam Bam Bigelow versus Hardcore Hack. Spring Stampede 1999. Another hardcore match with no plot, no complexity, no nothing besides guys mindlessly clubbing each other with weapons and doing dumb things with ladders. What really earned this one its place on the list though is the spot where Hack climbed a ladder by the ropes for no reason other than to fall off the ladder through the table outside the ring. There was just blatantly nothing else he could ever have accomplished there.
01:24:29
Speaker
Well, there's other things about that match. So they what I feel like it's supposed to be a plan spot that they were chastity can't get her fire stickers to work. I feel like that is a plan spot because she had her a few at that before. Yeah, like on the show before she does that turning into Raven.
01:24:46
Speaker
The announcers, they don't try to gloss over what happened. They're like, oh, look, you know, she couldn't get to work. Haha. Which feels like a natural thing to happen. But this match is so poorly performed. I honestly do not know if that was accident. You can't tell what the botches are in that matter. I mean, she could have legitimately not gotten into work. And maybe the plan was just to spray him down. He he no sells it like because his head's on fire because tattoo or something, something.
01:25:16
Speaker
I could see that being a spot, so I honestly don't know if they messed up, and that's sad. Yeah. I will know. There's one match that I'm sure you were expecting to be on there. It will show up later. Okay. Right. It only avoided this list because it's going to appear later, and all of these were totally worthy of being on here themselves. So I had four. I had to cut one. I cut the one that would get a different award.
01:25:39
Speaker
I was torn whether I include The Wall, a Scott Steiner match I referenced before, where Blinded Band can't distinguish Ref from Scott Steiner. But honestly, before the like, what, minute and a half, because the match is super short. Yeah, it's OK. It's OK. Super short inoffensive match until that spot. Yeah. Right.
01:26:00
Speaker
Now for the series overall, we've got some other awards to hand out. So first up, your best commentary team. So which commentary team did you enjoy the most? And if they're on more than one show, on which
Role of Commentary Teams in Wrestling Experience
01:26:12
Speaker
show? Okay. For me, it really comes down to the first two shows.
01:26:18
Speaker
So that is Shivane and Henan in 94 versus Shivane, Henan and Dusty in 97. Yep. I mean, I'm really going back and forth on this one. There's no bad choice, I think, between the two. No, yeah. On one hand, I really do like this sort of one-to-one commentary you get with Henan and Shivane. They feel like a natural banner between people, which hopefully our show feels like. You know, something to aim for is a Henan commentary, you know?
01:26:46
Speaker
At the same time, Dusty can really add a lot to it with his responses to things and just how into the show he gets. I bet you guys were at peak NWO versus WCW, so he's really like, come on, get him. He's really excited about it. Yeah. Arguably, there's times where the big three of them, they kind of fight for time, but hmm.
01:27:10
Speaker
I think for me, I'm going to narrowly pick, I'm going to get to my own notes, by the way. I'm going to narrowly pick 94 words, Hina and Shavani. Okay. They really have a good banter together. They both take the choice seriously, but will also make good jokes at time. Really enjoy them on commentary and all the matches. I like their pairing.
01:27:31
Speaker
All right, this won't surprise you. But for me, it is Tony, Bobby and Dusty from Spring Stampede 97. Okay. The three are, as always, just terrifically fun to listen to with their own enjoyment of the show coming through strongly.
01:27:47
Speaker
They do have some missteps this time, most notably the Akira Hokuto versus Medusa match, where they spend like half the match discussing something else entirely. Oh, yeah. But the combination of Dusty's bonkers lines and Hienan's snark, with Tony ensuring the train doesn't go too far off the rails, just makes them plain fun.
01:28:05
Speaker
I will give an honorable mention to the Tony and Bobby team on 1994 as well, where Heenan made it his personal mission to get Tony to crack up multiple times on the show. I just felt like you can tell this is early in their work together because there's a couple points where Tony doesn't react to something that he would later. But on this one, I think they just hadn't quite hit their stride to me yet. Fair enough.
01:28:27
Speaker
And then I will also give an honorable mention to the Tony, Bobby, and Mike Tenet team on 1999, where Tony was in just this wonderfully snarky mood the entire night. It was, yeah. And it gave the team a totally different atmosphere than normal. So really, again, aside from the 2000 show, which had a terrible commentary experience, along with a terrible just about everything else, all the commentary teams on this series were good, but the Tony Bobby Dusty just edges so slightly ahead to me still. Yeah, I can see that.
01:28:58
Speaker
All right. This is what I had trouble with.
Memorable Non-Match Moments
01:29:02
Speaker
Best promos or non-match segments. So up to three of the best promos or non-match segments, Al. Yeah. I'm curious if we're going to overlap because there's not a lot throughout the shows up until 2000 and then they're all like 20 seconds long. Yeah. If it's the ochre last question, you have 10 seconds to answer it and then walk off camera. Yes. And or be attacked behind by somebody. Yeah. Or both times.
01:29:29
Speaker
Okay, so I've got 994. I'm going to be charting a little bit, but before the Sting-Rude match, you have Harley-Rey's coming out and now it's taking fair intentions. Yeah, I think that's fair.
01:29:42
Speaker
And it leads right into the match with Harley throwing the most blatantly telegrap punch in history, throwing his arm like four feet back, so Sting will be able to stop him and punch him. And then the enjoyment of Heenan acting like Sting attacked this poor old man for no reason while he was punching him. I love it. Yeah, that's a good bit. I don't know if you're gonna include it. I'm going to include that Booker T promo. Putting aside the word they had to cut out on Peacock,
01:30:11
Speaker
Aside from that, it is actually a good promo. It is. Yeah. Sherry really controls things. Well, Okaan is smart enough to turn and start talking to Stevie Ray. Who does not react one bit. No. Amazing. Like that nearly earns Stevie Ray MVP right there. Yeah. Just for the solid rock of performance he gave there.
01:30:31
Speaker
Sherry did a good bit of quickly sort of giving solace to Booker thing. It's okay, it's okay. And then doing her bit really well, I thought. I will say that I did not pick that one, but it is definitely an honorable mention for how well they do outside of that moment, that they recover so, so, so well from what
01:30:49
Speaker
would have just shut down a promo. Yeah. Like, I mean, I could have seen them just be, okay, cut. None of you can get it together after that. Let's just move on. But yeah, they pull it all together and Booker T himself even ends the promo and ends it strong. That's true. Amazing job on that front.
01:31:06
Speaker
Um, lastly guy, one show appearance, but it's sort of a short for sweet bit. Chris Jericho is pre-match promo. It's really good. He really sets up next month's show withSlamboree, where he's taking shots at D Blanco again.
01:31:23
Speaker
They're talking about shows you're going to watch as a non-fan versus a fan. So if you're hanging out with your buddy in 1998, April, and you're watching a show because he's watching, you have no idea who these people are, and any of these are trying to tell you, oh, this guy's good, this guy's a bad guy, blah, blah, blah. What do you see Derek come out, do is, I want you to want me with that pause in there, and then really to take a shot at the Demolinko. You know from the go-go, he is the bad guy.
01:31:49
Speaker
It's a short bit there that really helps the crowd notice bond properly. And again, expands the story for later. Yeah. You want to see you guys come up and as you, and you get more of that and then build up a NYTRO to slam Brie and you finally get the payoff. All right. My three. Okay. I have Luger and giant pre-match promo spring stampede 1997. Right. Yeah.
01:32:12
Speaker
This one excellently built up their reverence for the WCW title, their own bonds of friendship, their shared goal of defeating the NWO, and their refusal to let the upcoming match drive a wedge between them, all themes that effectively foreshadowed the way the match would turn out and added to the quality of the finish. Both guys just did a terrific job with this one and made their match feel supremely important.
01:32:37
Speaker
Second up, I will agree with you, Chris Jericho's pre-match promo, Spring Stampede 1998, an excellent delusional heel performance from Jericho with this one, as he portrayed a genuine belief that the crowd loved him when they very much did not. And he respectfully, read disrespectfully, commented on his defeat of Dean Malenko to really, really rile the crowd up. Jericho is just a master of getting heat from the crowd, and this one is a prime example of that.
01:33:07
Speaker
And then an unusual one, slamboree ad spring stampede 1997. Okay. You remember this one, the unusual deadly serious ad with the various commentators talking about how there's this dire threat at the NWO and WSW has to unite and find a leader and face the threat. Yeah. It's one of the best ads WCW ever did. Yeah. Really blew me away seeing that one.
01:33:32
Speaker
I wanted to watch that Slampery again, even though I knew it didn't end up as important as they were talking about, but it's just, they did such a good job with it. Yeah. Yeah. I forgotten that, but that's a good one as well. Yeah.
Favorite and Least Favorite Gimmick Matches
01:33:45
Speaker
Not all matches are the usual sort of singles or tag match. So what was your favorite gimmick match on the series?
01:33:56
Speaker
Okay, so that's the thing, especially with the Russo show at the end, there's not a lot of the craziness you would necessarily expect. The only one that really gets you like a weird gimmick.
01:34:08
Speaker
And even then this huge is not that weird. Is that bad in the pole match 98, which I didn't like that much. For me, it comes down to basically the different version they did of no DQ matches, whether it was Raven's rules or just no DQ or just this, what do they feel like? You know, like it's not no DQ for DDP and Jeff Jarrett 2000 springs to me, for instance, but they, it wandered the crowd for five minutes. So I guess it is, it's no count out. That time period is just, yeah.
01:34:36
Speaker
What is in the rules? What's outside the rules? Who knows? Who cares? Doesn't matter. So for looking at the best of the NAQ matches, it's tough because I do like the Rayburn's rules match a lot from 98. My only issue with that is
01:34:52
Speaker
that it's constant interference from lots of people. So when one guy interferes at the end, it's like the ninth person to interfere in the match. So it's not as impactful as if they example had Raven used weapons and like were subtle interference and then, oh, someone interfered in the match.
01:35:10
Speaker
So for me, Beth NoDQ match as matches covered before on this episode already is the NoDQ match between Ray Savage and DDP. Okay. I thought they used the ability to leave the ringside area and fight towards the front really well. And just sort of allow the rules to be stretched a bit without going so far as to have, you know, end up running beat up DDP, which was technically in the rule, but they didn't do it. Just nice. Okay.
01:35:37
Speaker
For mine, I will go with the one you didn't choose. Okay. I'm gonna say Raven's Rules, DDP versus Raven from Spring Stampede 98. It's not a secret that I'm not generally a fan of hardcore matches we watch. That's why two of them were in my worst matches of the series. Yeah. Usually they don't have a plot consisting just of shots with random weapons until the match just kind of decides to be over. Right. This match was the exception.
01:36:03
Speaker
Diamond Dallas Page and Raven provided a hardcore match with an actual honest-to-goodness story, crafted with an ascending intensity and making full use of not just the ring, not just a wide variety of weapons, not even just the flock, but the vast majority of the show's set as well.
01:36:18
Speaker
from the wrestling focus start to the creative brawl by the set, the chaotic flock interference late match. This was just a fun match to watch and always kept me guessing. So it's a great match. And I just, I wanted to pick that one for the gimmick one because I feel like it fully dives into the gimmick. Yeah. Like fully as a hardcore match, like no question, but they've given it a full solid story all the same, which you normally don't get with those.
01:36:46
Speaker
However, if you go by the Sting race, that literally follows that. They use a bale of hay as a weapon, so that should give them an edge. No, that does not. I just love that spot. The commentary team honestly trying to sell us on that being one of the deadliest things out there.
01:37:10
Speaker
I get that it's not easy to do, but it's like, yeah, because it's like the way hay works and the bailing and everything. But yeah, they're picking a bale of hay, doing it with no damage and littering his hair and outfit with hay. It was not worth it, man. It was not worth it. Yeah, yeah. All right, Al, your worst type of gimmick match. And if there's a specific match you want to call out, that's fine. But you can just name the type as well if you prefer. Right. I mean, as we've stated, the hardcore matches on this show and series have not been good.
01:37:40
Speaker
If I'm gonna pick worst one, probably for sheer annoyance, it's gonna be Terry Funk, Norman Smiley. There's just a bizarre comedy of errors aspect, for the most part, with Bam Bigelow and Hardcore Hack. That makes me, I'm not gonna say like it more, but hate it less, I guess. Other than trying to use the fire extinguisher, having that not work. They don't go for the dumb comedy in that, along with supposed to be dangerous weapons.
01:38:08
Speaker
It's still dumb and stupid, but it's less annoyingly dumb and stupid to me than the screw in orange smiley and all that nonsense. OK. For me, you can probably guess this one. Suicide six cruiserweight match. Oh, there we go. Spring Stampede 2000. I know you were expecting that to be in the worst three earlier. I was. This is the only reason that it wasn't.
01:38:34
Speaker
This didn't sound that awful at first. At heart, it should have just been a chaotic cruiserweight match. But the way it was done on Spring State P2000, it just made me angry. And being angry is not conducive to being entertained.
01:38:48
Speaker
The rules were bizarrely unclear. Was everyone legal at once? Were they tagging in and out just without actual tags? Were they just getting in when someone left? And then why did they sometimes get in before someone else left and stay? Who was legal and who wasn't? Sometimes the performers didn't even seem to know what was supposed to be going on. Oh, and yeah, by the way, small question, who the heck was in the dang match in the first place?
01:39:12
Speaker
What kind of 11 people I think involved total? I think so. Yeah. 11 people in the six man match. Yeah. The rules sucked. The plotting sucked. The performances sucked too. So basically none of this was good. And it also had a crappy botch filled finish. Here is hoping that WCW never does this match type again. Yeah. I said before I look at the buildup on that show to how the tournament is supposed to work.
01:39:36
Speaker
Like they made the top guys fight each other for one spot, the one that DEP got. Or they said, here's a tournament between these tag teams and they made people qualify for them. Like they made Sting qualify for the US title tournament and they tried to make Sid and he got bumped out. It didn't make any sense, but they had the three team match to determine whoever the hardcore champion can be. But at least that's something.
01:40:03
Speaker
If you watch the Thunder after the reboot Nitro, they just go, we're having a six man match and these people are going to be three and three match on this show. Enjoy. And then it's not like a qualification. It's just they're in this match. Here's them in another match. Right. Yeah. And we're just going to hurl them into a blender basically to see what comes out on the next question is like, why is Shannon more in the match and not Shane Helms? Yeah. And then Shane Helms goes on to basically do a whole crap ton of things in the match. So you're like, correct. Yeah. What is going on?
01:40:33
Speaker
I get picking crowbar over David Flair in pretty much any instance, honestly, but yeah, I love to know why he's in it and not David Flair. Yeah, for instance. Yeah. Alright, so here is a fun one that was also a pretty tough choice.
Best Performers in Single Appearances
01:40:49
Speaker
Okay. Best performer with a single Spring Stampede appearance. So of those, I believe it was 78 people. Yes. Who was the one you really would have loved to see again the most?
01:41:00
Speaker
Okay, I feel like you're gonna guess who I'm picking right off the bat, and I might surprise you.
01:41:06
Speaker
In my heart of hearts, the answer is, of course, La Parca. After all this time, seeing him in ancillary performances, like being in the ring during Sting's celebration, or seeing why Nitro and Thunder's building up shows is what for research. Seeing him finally get his due, and more importantly, not in magic, it's this Conferno, which I know that happens. I'm like, okay, good. This can really work. Yeah, he had a genuinely good match. He did. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
01:41:31
Speaker
If I'm being 100% fair, though, there's a lot of people that had one up four inches that arguably qualify more. And I think comes down to me. There's people that ultimately have one appearance in a single batch.
01:41:47
Speaker
that will make it onto my Ultimate Spring Stampede show. So I think for me, that bumps him ahead. So one such person is Brian Pillman. Okay. I thought he was really good in his performance against Steven Riegel. The great story of how he can hang with Riegel, like, because Riegel is not taking him seriously at first, that Riegel is trying to hide behind the time limit. They really work right at the time limit part very well, I thought.
01:42:11
Speaker
It's nice to see him because as a point later we see him post-legit injury and he can't work the same way again. So it's a nice bit toward the tail end of his fully active in-ring career to see what he could really do as a more seasoned performer than say 1991-92 when athletically he's all there but he's not quite got his character down. He's really got it down on this show.
01:42:34
Speaker
Pure performance, him as a one-off, absolutely really good. And my heart of heart, La Parca is still there. Just know that. I had a lot of trouble with this because there are a lot of good single appearance performers on this show. Like you mentioned, Brian Pillman, La Parca, The Great Muda, Steve Austin, Blitzkrieg, Chavo Guerrero Jr.
01:42:56
Speaker
And though he's not my pick, I do want to give an honorable mention, especially to Bunkhouse Buck, who seriously impressed me on this show, especially after an awful performance on our Slamboree run. Seriously, if I could count those in the same series and in reverse actual chronological order, he'd be getting most improved. He just seemed like a totally different wrestler, a wild and entertaining brawler, who put on a great show with Dustin Rhodes.
01:43:21
Speaker
But my pick, which surprised me actually thinking that this could be a pick, but it can, is Ricky the Dragon Steamboat. Oh, you know, that's fair. Yeah.
01:43:31
Speaker
Not only a steamboat, you know, steamboat, he actually went above and beyond in his single appearance, putting on an absolutely epic match that went full tilt the whole way and adding complexity and depth to his character in the process. He could have just gone out there and been Ricky Steamboat, but he elevated his performance beyond even his normal high quality, making for an incredibly memorable single appearance.
01:43:52
Speaker
So I think that's what got me on it and made me think, yeah, I do want to say that even though it's Ricky Steamboat. Everyone knows I'd like to see more Ricky Steamboat. But with this one, I specifically want to highlight, I want to see this Ricky Steamboat again. The developments he made to his character, the complexity he made to his character. I would love to have seen the development of that further again on the show.
01:44:15
Speaker
I thought I was sure you were going with Chavo from the point of off performance, but it was really good. Chavo was excellent as well. Like I said, no question. There's a ton of the people on that single appearance list did an amazing job. All right. Most improved. Is there anyone you thought wasn't too great or needed some improvement when they first showed up, but then they show up again later and turn things around or just do a much better job?
Most Improved Performers
01:44:41
Speaker
pre-drive for that kind of film, and I thought I hadn't filled that out, but I actually did. Okay. Because as soon as I folded my notes, I'm like, did I pick one? Oh, great. Did I fold? Never mind. This is a guy that appears in almost every show.
01:44:54
Speaker
He's not actively a wrestler at the first go, but then it's a really good performance. And even on Spring Stamped 2000, which as we've established is garbage, outside of the context of his match being a heel versus heel match, he did a really good job. So most approved for me is Billy Kidman. Oh, okay. Like I said, he starts out as just a guy that interferes in the DDP Raven match. That's yeah, yeah.
01:45:21
Speaker
He's also, I believe gets involved in the Goldberg's Saturn match. Yeah, true. And then he jumps the next year where he's, when I have the tag team champions with Brimisterio, and they have a good match that both showed athleticism, but also pushes the, will they, won't they turn each other thing? Cause they both want the title. And shows their perseverance in getting through some pretty nasty hits they take during that match as well. Yeah.
01:45:47
Speaker
But yeah, it's a nice little story because Kidman was Cruiserweight Champion, lose it to Mysterio, and the next week the two of them win the tag titles. And now here they are, against each other again. It's dynamics so changed by that.
01:46:02
Speaker
Yeah. So I think about like, see period so many times, he has a good arc outside of DDP. Obviously it's best arc of going from guy just around acting like he does heroin, scratching himself all the time. Yeah. Being like a good performer. And even 2000, again, the match, his part of the match is really enjoyable. Is very, very solid performance on 2000. Yeah. It's a shame that it turns into a lopsided at him being beat up by Hogan segment. Yeah.
01:46:27
Speaker
All right. I appreciate that you did not take the easy way out because I totally took the easy way out. Okay. I am saying Diamond Dallas Page. Okay. Not that he's bad at all in 1994, but he just clearly hasn't worked out everything about his character and style yet. And he's an opening match guy that doesn't even make the opening video package when literally every other match in the car does. Yeah, every match is announced except his. Except his, yeah. And he's not mentioned at all once his match is done. It's true.
01:46:53
Speaker
Cut to 1997 and boom, Page is an exceptional polished performer that's being asked to prove that he's worthy of being in the main event and does. So he gets another two main events on further shows and is second from the top on a third. He goes from being nobody to being somebody to being the top guy and he works hard to get there and stay there. He can't help but be happy for the guy watching his rise and this series more than any other we've seen highlights that. All right, here we go.
Best and Worst Spring Stampede Shows
01:47:22
Speaker
All right.
01:47:23
Speaker
our best and worst Spring Stampedes. So it's a short series, so we're not doing three for three because that would be six and we don't have six shows. So Al, I would like you to pick your worst two and then your best two. Okay. I'm genuinely curious if we're going to be the same on this or if we're going to be different on this.
01:47:44
Speaker
Obviously, number one for World Springs FP is Springs Open 2000. As we said, so many bad matches, too many matches. And this whole ADHD feel the show match happened to me, they cut to the back for 20 seconds. They're done with that next thing. Go, go, go, go. Move, move, move. No time for anything to breathe. Any important thing to happen to have any impact on the show and commentary is awful.
01:48:14
Speaker
Well, it's far less bad than the show that follows it. 1999 show for me is just too uneven. It's not a bad show, but there is too much filler here. They're trying out stuff which I can appreciate, but I feel like enough stuff should be on pay-per-view here.
01:48:33
Speaker
On top of that, it's the last show that has any of the Western set, and they've lost most of it. Yeah. So. They kind of have whatever was left over after DDP and Raven broke it this year, right? Exactly, yeah. They couldn't be bothered.
01:48:48
Speaker
If 2000 is like a minus five star show, I think nine is like a one star show, two star show, maybe even that. I'm not sure what my starting point that is, but it's it's not a negative show. It's just. Yeah. Yeah, that's good. It's a perfectly acceptable show, but it's not the earlier shows on the series. Right. Yeah. It has that is fluff and stuff. I don't quite like it so much. All right. Your best two.
01:49:15
Speaker
Nine Time 7 is a really good show. It has a bunch of matches. I'll be at my Ultimate Spring Stampede show. So obviously it's got to be in my top one for that. It's the one that really gives us the full Western decor and theme of everything, which thankfully lasts for at least two shows in some degree. It's really nice. There's very few misses here as far as the quality matches as well.
01:49:39
Speaker
And lastly, the original show, 994, has a very strong match card. Again, as you see in my Ultimate Spring Stampede, you got a lot of stuff from that. And the other thing is, going back to we talked about with the original series, this Starrcade. They really nailed this, like, real sports competition feel. 94, I thought quite well.
01:50:00
Speaker
Yeah, definitely. The sense of the chaos there that will come by having a bunkhouse brawl and a hardcore like street fight on there. Well, you still feel like this WSW not trying to do too far from its roots and going to good show. Yeah, absolutely. All right. All right. Ready to see if we're the same. Yeah, let's go for it. All right. So worst worst ones for me. Okay.
01:50:23
Speaker
Spring Stampede 2000. Yep. Absolutely. An abysmal garbage heap of a show. Yes. Four team matches, multiple tournaments, hardcore stupidity, a bocce unfollowable cruiserweight mess, Jimmy Hart versus Mancow, tons of interference, insane idiotic match finishes. If you want to know just how bad this show is.
01:50:45
Speaker
It fails at the most basic element of putting on a wrestling show, telling you who the hell is in the match three times. It's true. Yeah. Things don't improve from there. It's not just one of the worst shows on this series. It is one of the worst shows that I have ever watched. Agreed. Yeah. And the other worst show, Spring Stampede 1999. All right.
01:51:13
Speaker
It is very unfair to put any other show in the worst shows category alongside 2000. There's a massive, massive gulf between this generally good show and the dumpster fire that is Spring Stampede 2000. But we said we would pick two, so I'll pick two.
01:51:31
Speaker
In 1999, while I still felt it was overall good, is flawed in more direct and obvious ways than any of the earlier shows, with a flow that kind of starts and stops and some real declines in presentation. There's still some absolutely terrific stuff on there, and it has a massive moment for DDP in particular, but it just isn't solidly, consistently good like the earlier shows.
01:51:54
Speaker
I'll say that if you can do one-on-one comparison between shows, just like picking one moment for instance to compare one show to the other. So, Night 98, which is the only one that didn't get included either moment, it's probably my number three best show, I guess, has Booker T, Chris Maw match is really good. They have a screen finish, but it's a creatively done screen finish, really well executed.
01:52:17
Speaker
The 99, you have Booker T versus Scott Steiner, and we have real Stolle, Scott Steiner, and you know they can work. And so you have these two methods. That's just a sort of microcosm look at how they could just slightly do things worse on 99.
01:52:33
Speaker
Yeah, and I think it really is for 99, just what got it on here. Because 98 has some problems as well, but 99 I think just had consistent troubles that you'd get something good and be like, oh yeah, that was really nice. And then the next match would be like, oh, that wasn't that great. Then, oh, that was really nice. Oh, that wasn't that great. It just didn't keep going.
01:52:54
Speaker
Well like 90A for instance, 90A has that tag match with Buff Bagwell and... Scott Steiner and versus Flex Luger and Rick Steiner. Yeah, that wasn't very good yet. Which is, it's not terrible. It feels like it should be a Nitro match. It just barely get back because it ends so properly.
01:53:13
Speaker
But 99 has the Mike Wipwreck, Scottie Riggs match, which is not terrible, but feels even less like it belongs on the show. Yeah. Because 98 is a fairly good throwaway tag match, but evolving top tier talent. Exactly. Yeah. So now for my best ones. All right. If 2000 was among the worst shows that I've ever seen, these two were among the best, not just in the series, but ever. Okay.
01:53:39
Speaker
Spring Stampede 1997. A brilliant show, filled with exciting matches that can be both technical and vicious, sometimes at the same time. To make it even better is filled with major story developments and important moments for wrestlers' careers, most notably DDP's first shot of the big time and a chance to prove that he could be a main eventer. It's not perfect, but it even manages to handle some of its flaws really well, rolling along smoothly despite a few hiccups along the way.
01:54:08
Speaker
It's a great show topped off by perhaps the best set design that WCW has ever done. Agreed, yeah. You can feel the love the crew and the performers had for this one. And my other? Spring Stampede 1994. So we are a perfect match here. Oh, right.
01:54:29
Speaker
Again, an absolutely brilliant show. Consistently good to great matches, wonderful character work, and interesting storytelling and angles, all topped off by a really excited crowd that gives great reactions the whole night. It doesn't have the wonderful set of 1997, but it still has some great presentation elements with neat graphics and cool entrances that give it a fun feel. Remember Steamboat's dragons on his entrance and the, uh, the wanted posters for the batch graphics. So cool.
01:54:59
Speaker
Yeah. It's a really enjoyable watch. And that's all before the epic main event that caps off one of the finest feuds in all of professional wrestling history with a truly tremendous match. Yeah. I've never been more glad that we didn't try to define which show gets first place, by the way, because there is no way in heck I could choose between those two. They're both amazing shows.
Hypothetical Wrestling Scenarios
01:55:23
Speaker
Honestly, except for the existence of Spring Stampede 2000, this was an exceptionally great series, probably my favorite series that we've yet done.
01:55:36
Speaker
Because I could see the way they were going with things. They could have actually tried to do some sort of double turn or at least partial turn. Half team would actually go heal and take flare out and win the title. And now here is Steamboat as the heel champion when Hogan shows up. That would be genuinely interesting. I could see that being kind of a cool, different match. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Because unless I'm wrong, there has never been a, and never will be obviously, a Steamboat Hogan match.
01:56:06
Speaker
Yeah, I don't know. They may have been on sides in like a Survivor Series or something like that. I feel like they would have been on the same side in those. Yeah, exactly. That's the thing. Yeah. Yeah. That's an interesting. Yeah. He'll steamboat as the face of WCW again, push the deal that he's the face of tradition, but he's also been corrupted to fund the gain and hold power. And here's Hogan is the outsider, changing things, but same time also a face.
01:56:32
Speaker
Yeah, and you could actually have the unusual situation of like Ric Flair supporting Hulk Hogan. Yeah, when he first enters or something that we against longtime best buds team boat. That's yeah, that would be yeah, that's a genuinely interesting alternate history there, right? Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. I think you'd agree on this easy, easy series recommendation for anyone to watch at least up through 1999.
01:56:55
Speaker
Yeah. And 94 has a few mistimed things here and there. The ending with the Rick root sting match, for instance, so that almost goes awry. Like later, Fader tossing Boston out the ring, but nothing like, again, like even for hardcore hack trying to suplex big low and right. That's because leg up somehow deserve falling over. Like I couldn't do it or.
01:57:19
Speaker
That's the thing with 94 and with 97 is there's things that go wrong, but they really, really quickly and expertly recover from them every single time. And even though I don't necessarily enjoy as much as I could do, like, for instance, I didn't care for the Dustin Rhodes bunkhouse buck matches, but you did.
01:57:34
Speaker
I'm not going to say it's bad. No. I didn't care for as much, but it's better than anything on 2000. Yes. And arguably anything in 99 to certain degree. It's a harder choice there, but yeah. So the worst stuff in 94 for me is not that bad. Yeah. So we've given our awards and our analysis, but there's one more thing we'd like to do here to just have a little bit of fun with this.
Creating Ultimate Spring Stampede Cards
01:58:00
Speaker
Our ultimate spring stampede cards.
01:58:04
Speaker
So here's the rules, just as a refresher. Each of us designs a spring stampede card featuring eight matches drawn from the actual spring stampede matches. We can only use each performer as a competitor once.
01:58:20
Speaker
So, someone can show up as a manager or commentator or as interference or some other role on other matches, but you can only use them once as an actual competitor. For instance, if you picked Nash vs Goldberg from Spring Stampede 1999, you couldn't then use any match where either of those was a competitor elsewhere, but you could still use Lex Luger in another match because he's only a manager in that match. Correct.
01:58:45
Speaker
You can use any match in any position. You're not required to pick an actual main event for your main event. All right. All right. You want to go first or you want me to? I go first. Okay. So mine will open with Billie Kim versus Berber Mysterio from Spring, Spain, 99. Even if it's not a great show as mentioned, that match stood out to me and that serve mentioned here. I have the exact opposite matchbook next, which is the match being Vader and the boss man. Okay.
01:59:15
Speaker
You had two cruiserweights showing them they can flip and tell stories and everything. Now here's two big old horses. Throw each other around and punch each other and bust each other open. And in one case, accidentally showing how far he could flip and fly. That's true. So I've been torn in this because it's purely me having a soft spot for the person and their part of the match, sort of accepting the really bad with the good here.
01:59:39
Speaker
I have the Mike Austin versus Ben and Bigelow slash the cat match. Okay. The only thing salvageable for me other than the Booker T sting match, but it's looted for other reasons from that show.
01:59:51
Speaker
The actual match you get between Bigelow as the official replacement, unofficial replacement, it's never clear. He's quite good and a good teaser for the more lengthy actual one-on-one match at Starrcade 2000, which I actually liked. And I couldn't leave my Gotham at the show. And is that a war hymn versus Steiner? I like this one better.
02:00:13
Speaker
Big of Booker T. I have Booker T versus Chris Benoit from 1998. As mentioned before from my single appearance pick, I have Steven Regal versus Brian Pillman from 1994, Spring Stampede. That was a good one. There's a lot of Regal matches that do the canny, you survive the time limit thing, and they're generally really good. This one does the balancing of time without really well.
02:00:38
Speaker
Following that, I have a very different match going from technical aggression to just insane aggression. We have the public enemy versus the forest men, which in this case is Jeff Dyrd and Mongo. As I said before, when we covered the show,
02:00:55
Speaker
It's such a weird combination of things because public enemy is pure brawling and chaos with their tables. And not too much for chairs, really, but a lot of just punching and kicking. You have Mongo, who is all sort of raw power and energy. He definitely is out of place a couple of times, at least once.
02:01:15
Speaker
But he's so enthusiastic about it. You just gotta like it. And you have Jeff Jarrett, who like practically from birth is trained to be a classical 80s style port wrestler, which he never, other than the fact that he thought he was using guitars and low blows, he never really changed. No, yeah. He kept all that sort of structure. It's like if Dean Boat had started 10 years later and worked 10 years longer, you kind of get the same idea. He could work a classical match, but then, you know, just pull out a guitar and everything.
02:01:43
Speaker
Don't, don't make me think of Ricky Steamboat saying slap nuts, man. Ricky Steamboat saying, haha, is that better? All right. I have too much to go. And my semi-made event, I have the match we've lauded over greatly, which is DDP versus Randy Savage. Okay.
02:02:00
Speaker
I figure contextually it can be a number of contenders match. Given that Savage is so high in the card and the WO guy, he is a natural fit for that position. This could be saying he DP's challenging for the WCW and try and get that position. So that works story-wise. Okay. And only Matt to give me a main event in this series. Ric Flair's Ric is Deanbo, which as you said many times now is amazing. Okay.
02:02:29
Speaker
All right. You're going to hear some familiar matches as I go through mine, but not, not all of them. Okay. So I'm pleased with that. Good. My first match is Regal versus Pillman from Spring Stampede 1994. Okay. Started off with a nice fast paced, complicated match. As with you go the other way with the next match. Bunkhouse Buck versus Dustin Rhodes, Spring Stampede 1994. Let's go to beat the tar out of each other next. Yeah.
02:02:58
Speaker
Third match, let's take it back the other way again, but keep high emotion in it with Altimo Dragon versus Chavo Guerrero Jr., Spring Stampede 1998. Fourth match, get a tag match on the card with Benoit Malenko versus Raven and Saturn from Spring Stampede 99. By the way, on Earth 9400, this is for the tag titles and does not end with a supremely dangerous flying headbutt onto a chair. Excellent. All right.
02:03:24
Speaker
Fifth match, Rey Mysterio Jr. versus Kidman from Spring Stampede 1999. I think on Earth 9400, Kidman is still in the flock as of this match, so he's solidly a bad guy and Mysterio is solidly a good guy. Gotcha. Sixth match, Ric Flair versus Ricky Steamboat from Spring Stampede 1994. Yes, I am doing the world title match in the mid-card. I'm pulling a Russell Warr 89.
02:03:49
Speaker
Flair and the Horseman will turn full heel after this match when Flair bribes the ref to declare him the winner from the double pin and then has the Horseman beat down best buddy Ricky Steamboat. And our seventh match then becomes Lex Luger vs. the Giant vs. Booker T vs. Stevie Ray from Spring Stampede 1997.
02:04:07
Speaker
So this is mainly on there for that amazing character moment from the giant at the end. But on Earth-9400, it's contested more as a straight tag match. And after Flair's antics in the previous match, Commissioner Bachwinkle set this match up to determine the number one contender to face off against Flair. So maybe it started as a normal tag match. And then they declared it. Okay. This is for number one contender, and Giant selflessly gives it to Luger. Now, does this version of Nick Banquo go good at explaining the match?
02:04:35
Speaker
No, I can't fantasy book things quite that much. Okay, just making sure. Okay, gotcha. And my eighth batch is Diamond Dallas Page versus The Botchaman Randy Savage from Spring Stampede 1997. It feels odd to do this since I do have a world title match on my card, but I cannot see putting DDP's first main event anywhere but the main event.
02:04:58
Speaker
So I'm thinking on Earth-9400, it's just one of those massive feuds that just actually overshadows the world title, but really it's just symbolic here. I can't make that not a main event when it was his first one.
02:05:10
Speaker
You could you could do like, after
Re-gimmicking Matches with Creative Twists
02:05:12
Speaker
sort of extra condition in the match, like, have DP and find the WBO for quite a while at this point. And Savage is, you know, crazy savage, but also pure than a B.O. And he's off DP so much that he's willing to take the match, even though the condition is if he loses, he's first to join the WBO. Yeah, so yeah.
02:05:35
Speaker
There's some massive condition on it that makes it worthy of that's actually bigger than the world title. He goads him into this match by threatening Kimberly or such. There you go. I'm pleased we had some similarities between our cars, but some differences as well.
02:05:50
Speaker
I will say for myself bought for Mike Austin and his really good performance in that like three minutes, he gets to do it in. I've saddened myself that I didn't have a sting match, but it was hard to find one that didn't have other people involved. Like I can't take DP away from his savage match. So I can't have the world title match there. I didn't really take Booker T away from his spin one match. So I can't use the thousand one.
02:06:16
Speaker
And I just realized I don't have a sting match either. And that's pretty much the same reason, like, his good matches were against people that I had to use elsewhere. If I didn't have my feelings towards my gossip as a good performance, I probably would have pivoted in Sting was big root 94, which overall was a good match. But I do want to leave the card. Yeah. Now the real insanity begins. Yes, yes, it does.
02:06:42
Speaker
Now that we've given our ultimate Spring Stampede cards, it is time for re-gimmicking. All right. So each of us has been given a match from each other's card, and we have to give that match a new gimmick or stipulation that would turn it into something new. Now we've provided our matches to each other ahead of time, but we haven't heard each other's re-gimmickings, so this will be interesting. I hope so. So Al, do you want to hear the one that you gave me first or the one that I gave you first?
02:07:10
Speaker
You can go to yours first. I want to hear yours. Okay. So for me, Al provided Mike Awesome versus the Cat and or Bambambigolo from Spring Stampede 2000. In the ring are Mike Awesome, Bambambigolo, and a closed, opaque, human-sized steel chamber. Okay. Dave Penzer in a white lab coat explains that in the chamber is Mike Awesome's scheduled opponent, Ernest the Cat Miller.
02:07:37
Speaker
And also in the chamber is a Geiger counter, in which is a small amount of radioactive substance. And a separate chamber, which contains the cat's match contract and a vial of powerful acid. Okay. If the radioactive substance decays, the vial will break, destroying the cat's match contract so he is not in the match. If the substance does not decay, the vial will not break, so the cat will be in the match.
02:08:02
Speaker
However, as there is no way to determine from outside the box what the condition inside the box is, the cat can be said to both be in the match and not in the match until the chamber is opened and his match contract, or the remains of it, are observed.
02:08:16
Speaker
If the cat is in the match, then Awesome must beat him to win. If the cat is not in the match, Awesome must beat Bigelow. If Awesome pins the wrong person, then Awesome is disqualified, so either Bigelow automatically wins if the cat is not in the match, or Bigelow and Cat will fight if the cat is in the match. Bigelow, on the other hand, can win by beating Awesome if Awesome is not so disqualified. Cat can win by beating either opponent, but only if Cat is actually in the match.
02:08:42
Speaker
Awesome thus must fight off Bigelow for long enough to open the steel chamber thus establishing through observation the current condition of the cat's match contract and thereby determining which person Awesome must actually pin. Otherwise he can gamble by pinning Bigelow but then the chamber will be opened and if he was wrong he loses.
02:09:00
Speaker
Bigelow, on the other hand, just tries to beat the crap out of awesome and pin him. Bigelow is not interested in quantum mechanics. No. So yes, it's, uh, that I always get the pronunciation of this name wrong, but Schrodinger's, uh, earnest the cat. Yes. The Schrodinger's earned the cat match. Yes. I admit I'm proud of that one. That's good.
02:09:24
Speaker
So for Al, I provided Bunkhouse Buck versus Dustin Rhodes from Spring Stampede 1994. All right. I give you the reverse Bunkhouse match. Okay. Thank you, Vince Russo. Oh, no. Rhodes and Buck begin in their bunkhouse slash street fight attire. Basically what they wrestled the actual match in officially. Okay. In the ring.
02:09:49
Speaker
They must fight each other in the ring. There's no pinfall. That's not what those kind of matches, those stupid rules like pinfall submission or DQ all that nonsense. No, no, much easier. You want to subdue the other to go outside of the ring where your fancy dress attire is. You got your breasts and your comb and everything. Do you want to debilitate your opponent to go outside and get dressed up for the barn dance? Okay. You worked a long day in the bunkhouse. Now you're going to go to the barn dance celebrate on Saturday night.
02:10:17
Speaker
Go out and have a nice dance with your sweetheart. Yeah. Yeah. A hoot in it. That's nice, yeah. Besides just hanging out and getting dressed, you have to stop him getting dressed first as well. Right, yeah. Presumably they're both after the same girl and it's a big thing. And of course, just to be clear, their outfits are on different sides of the ring. They're not next to each other because that'd be stupid.
02:10:37
Speaker
No, they got to go one side of the ring and either dress faster than the guy or try and take him out and stop him from being dressed. So normally they're fighting at some point half dressed in tuxedo, half in bunkhouse attire. Now, obviously, your question is how do you win officially win a first bunkhouse match? Yes, how do you win a first bunkhouse match? OK, once a referee and possibly a woman decided that part, decide you were ready to go. You had enough stuff on, you look good to go.
02:11:07
Speaker
They will let you cross the gate that is covering the front ringside entrance area, whereupon you must ride on your horse, which has been waiting there the whole time for you. Nice. So if you get dressed first, run the gate, get an horse and ride to the back of the arena to enjoy Hootenanny and dance with your gal. Nice. That is a reverse bunkhouse match. Presumably because this is a wrestling show they go squared circle dancing. Of course.
02:11:33
Speaker
Yes. I got to give you credit for this one, by the way, Al, that you have designed a match that addresses the one actual problem I had with the original match, which is that Bunkhouse Buck got progressively less clothed as the match went on. There you go. This time he gets progressively more clothed as the match goes on. Exactly. To win, he has to. Yes. Book this match. Very nice. Thank you. But once again,
02:12:01
Speaker
We also sent a match each to John. Mm hmm. Strap in. Oh boy. Al, you want to hear the one I gave him first or the one you gave him first? Um, dude through yours. Okay. So from me, John received Lex Luger versus the Giant versus Booker T versus Stevie Ray, the Four Corners match from Spring Stampede 1997. Okay. He calls this a mile in another's boots. Okay. It's a four way free for all.
02:12:30
Speaker
There are four treadmills located at the corners of the ring and each faces towards the audience. Of course. Booker and Stevie are at opposing corners, the same with Lex and Giant. Naturally.
02:12:40
Speaker
The goal is simple. The match ends when you have one mile on your treadmill. Okay. There are simple boxes hanging above each treadmill from the ceiling that start at zero and finish when they get to one. All right. The gimmick here is everyone can race to one mile, but at any point you could be attacked to stop progress by any other wrestler. In addition, the person that pins another in the center of the ring gets that person's distance added to their own distance. Well, of course. That makes sense. Yeah.
02:13:05
Speaker
To make things interesting, if anyone has over half a mile on their treadmill when any pin happens, it's rounded back down to half a mile. Okay. So as people go over half miles, they become big targets, then the incentive to break pins gets higher.
02:13:19
Speaker
Fun fact, after being attacked a few times, Booker decides to walk backwards on his treadmill, slowly facing the ring, so he doesn't have to keep looking over his shoulder. That makes sense. And Giant just occasionally pushes his belt on his treadmill forward with one foot like it's a skateboard, and that goes and looks for a new pin. Yeah. I would definitely not go against Luger to match that involved cardio like that. No, yeah. He'd be a biggest target in a match. I like that. All right, and yours? Yeah.
02:13:48
Speaker
All right, from Al, John received public enemy versus Jeff Jarrett and Mongo of the Horsemen from Spring Stampede 97. Yeah. All right, you ready, Al? I am. Give it to me. He calls this the War of the Tours. Okay.
02:14:04
Speaker
The lights go dim, and there's the sound of a single trumpet playing a lively, heroic fanfare that soon morphs into playing over the public enemy's intro music. The entrance to the arena has a red billowing, velvet-like curtain. Public enemy appears with prosthetic horns on their heads and bare-chested, with small half-capes with their logo on their backs. They have fur-like chaps and hoof-like attachments to their boots. They are the public enaminitors.
02:14:34
Speaker
Of course they are. Oh my god. Oh jeez. They go into the ring and pose and lock horns to get the crowd excited. Yeah.
02:14:42
Speaker
There's a whistle in the sound of the wind blowing and a faint guitar playing. Then the sound of a whip crack rings out as the red cape is torn down. And Jared and Mongo gallop down to the ring as two members of the four centaurus men. Of course. With blow-up pony bodies tied around their waist. I was going to ask how that worked. Were they riding horses? Okay, good. So we didn't book two matches before riding horses. No, no. We booked one match where someone rides a horse and one match where people become horses. Gotcha. I gotcha. Much, so much saner. Yeah, of course. Oh my gosh.
02:15:13
Speaker
They corral the minotaurs in the center of the ring and prance around a few times before each team takes to their assigned corners. Jarrah's rolling his eyes, but Mongo is really into this. I bet he is, yeah. Yeah, he would have fun. You know that. 100%, yeah. It's a free-for-all before the tag match starts. They toy with each other and the centaurs end up ripping off the minotaurs' horns, but not before they end up popping their ponies. That sentence I never thought I'd say. It happens regularly with Jon matches. Yes, popping their ponies. That's all I needed to hear, man.
02:15:44
Speaker
The skirt around the ring is removed and there is a labyrinth of chain link fences with one entrance and one exit with a gate at each end. Of course. There are a few brightly covered boxes in corners at the end of a few paths. A single lasso is given as a weapon to each team up top. So there's two ways to win. Either they have to hog tie both opponents or they have to lock both of their opponents in the labyrinth. Okay.
02:16:10
Speaker
If there's a labyrinth finish, both of the opposing team have to be up top to win. Additionally, there are keys and a hidden bonus prize in one of the boxes in the labyrinth, so it's worth going through before the end of the match. No DQ for using the lassos. If an opponent is pinned, they're sent to the labyrinth's entrance and the door is locked behind.
02:16:30
Speaker
There are cameras located below so the audience can see the wrestlers battle it out if two get sent into the maze. About three quarters of the way through the match, Jared's up top by himself with both minotaurs and manga are in the cage, and he's just shrugging, laughing, and watching manga get beat up. A few minutes later, both public and a minotaurs— that's really hard to say, by the way— emerge and chase him down, making him look really concerned. Oh, and the secret prize that they can fight for? A 1998 Ford Taurus. Of course it is.
02:16:59
Speaker
The locks on the exit are color-coded, but not visible until you get through the maze to the exit. Each of the boxes match the color of the locks. There's four sets of car keys in the six silver boxes. Two are empty. Only one set of car keys will actually start the car, but in WCW fashion, the fake keys are really easily determined to be blanks. Yes. Wow. But I have a surprise for you, Al. Okay. Before we finish up here,
02:17:27
Speaker
Okay, good.
02:17:47
Speaker
With WCW unable to do something as basic as define the competitors in a match, the barriers between dimensions have broken down. So we have not just 11 people, but multiple different versions of the various people from dimensions across the thus far undiscovered WCW multiverse and a chaotic cruiserweight mess amongst the notables.
02:18:09
Speaker
Hoeven to Guerreira of Earth-982, where he did not in fact lose his match to Chris Jericho, but still has his sweet hat. All right. Lash LeDoux of Earth-616, where he's a superhero that can split in two. But Tony still can't tell you what either signature move is called. Of course. Prince Ayakea of Earth-97-99, where he never gave up his original gimmick to don a puffy shirt, and would go on to have the match of the night at Slambury 2000, not that it saved that show. No.
02:18:37
Speaker
Kristoff Emmanuel Cantido of Earth 1784 who opened a portal to this dimension by simply arguing that whether another dimension existed or not It was in his interest in believing that one did that he might win the cruiserweight title there. Sure
02:18:53
Speaker
La Pageca of Earth-974, where Diamond Dallas Page disguised himself as La Parca to fight Randy Savage and liked the look so much he adopted it permanently, becoming La Parca's only long-lasting and successful tag partner. La Pageca replaces actual Earth-974 participant Crowbar the Golden, who was the actual gold Crowbar that that dimensions David Flair once used against La Pageca. I knew it. I knew that was coming.
02:19:19
Speaker
Crowbar the Golden had to withdraw from the dimensional travel after suffering a sudden unfortunate case of diamond cutter. The Nature Boy, David Flair, of Earth 7299, where his serious father, Rick Flair, stuck with an amateur wrestling career and never went pro, but his incredibly charismatic son joined WCW in its later days and revitalized the flagging company as a wildly successful long-running heel champion. Oh, nice.
02:19:45
Speaker
Hurricane Helms from our own dimension just accidentally sent back in time by Shannon Moore, otherwise known as More Easter, of Earth Zero, where he was the sidekick to that universe's actual superhero, Hurricane Helms, and tried to use Dark Lord Russo's technology to revive his departed mentor to face a new threat, only to accidentally send both he and the alternate universe pro wrestler version of his mentor here instead. Oh, and Spider-Man, because he always gets wrapped up in these sorts of things.
02:20:14
Speaker
This exceptionally terrible match was won by, of all people, David Arquette of Earth 2021, where he was a very successful world-famous pro wrestler. WCW proceeded to have our universe's David Arquette accidentally win the Cruiserwhite title off of him en route to the world title. The company closed its doors three months earlier than the original history.
02:20:37
Speaker
That just popped into my head. I'm like, nope, I gotta rebook this thing. I can give you my own quicker gimmick of that. So it's a Suicide Squad 6 match. There we go. That's a good one, too. They all have the little embedded things in the brain. And all 11 people come up for the match. Russo in the back, Deneath the bomb, and everyone but who's actually in the match, their heads explode. They get better. They'll get better. It's okay.
02:21:05
Speaker
And then, I don't know, maybe something else you don't like in there. I don't know, Blasheroo, maybe under five, maybe? I don't know, who you really want to excise that's actually officially in the match. Yeah. Maybe the artist, the one known as Prince Iakea. Yeah, yeah, I like him earlier than the artist phase, but not so much then. He'll be the, what's it called, the rip quarter, I think the guy's name was? The one in the Suicide Squad movie, they blow up to show that the things work. Oh, yeah. It's not important, it's all about us.
02:21:35
Speaker
But yeah, I had to walk out and I always had to start blowing up. You guys are in the match. Okay. At least if we clarify things. Yeah. That's all I ask. To make it better, I'll give you one extra thing. As a clerical error, they actually blew up Shane and Morris head, so Shane Helms is in there instead. Okay. Yep.
Conclusion and What's Next in Wrestling Series
02:21:52
Speaker
Improved. There you go. And that wraps up our coverage of Spring Stampede. So what have we got coming up next? Yeah. Well, first up, our bridge show.
02:22:05
Speaker
For the first time, we're going to take a full look at an episode of WCW Monday Nitro, specifically the episode for July 29th, 1996.
02:22:17
Speaker
Some really notable stuff happens on this show. Up-and-coming tag team High Voltage faces the Steiners. The Giant defends his world title against a very unexpected opponent. Jim Duggan faces Mike Enos. That's definitely all the major stuff, right? I'm sure nothing else of note happens. And now, our next series.
02:22:42
Speaker
The order launches its final attack. The world heavyweight title could land in enemy hands when the traitor Hulk Hogan seeks to destroy the colossal giant. Stay with the total package, have a come and go to demolish the outsider invasion. Unless we're gonna take you places you've never been before. It's WCW's Hog Wild. Saturday August 10th, live and only on pay-per-view.
02:23:09
Speaker
Next up is Hogwild and Roadwild. Running from 1996 through 1999, this covers four shows, all set during the annual Sturgis Motorcycle Rally in South Dakota. Other than lots and lots and lots of bikers, what can we expect? We get Ray Mysterio Jr. versus Altimo Dragon. All right. Hulk Hogan versus Lex Luger. Rick Flair versus Six.
02:23:39
Speaker
Yeah. Goldberg versus most of the NWO in a Battle Royale. Oh, right. Yeah. Randy Savage versus Dennis Rodman. Oh, yeah. Hogan and Bischoff versus DDP and Jay Leno. Jay Leno. Yeah. Well, at the very least, it'll be interesting. Yes. So again, our upcoming releases are
02:24:04
Speaker
In June, WCW Monday Nitro from July 29th, 1996. And in July, the start of our new series with Hogwild 1996. So join us as we move from horses to steel horses to continue our ride through WCW history. I think we're wanted that are alive. Yeah, pretty much. Okay,
Listener Engagement and Acknowledgments
02:24:26
Speaker
good. The second.
02:24:28
Speaker
If you've enjoyed listening to us tonight, you can find us on Twitter or Facebook as Let's Go to the Ring. Links will be available in the episode description. Follow us for episode announcements and other show details, and share your own thoughts about each show as we go through. You can subscribe to our show on Apple Podcasts, Google Podcasts, High Heart Radio, Spotify, Stitcher Radio, TuneIn, Verbal, or Audible.
02:24:54
Speaker
And please, if you've enjoyed this show, give us a rating or review and share the show through your favorite social media platforms to help others discover us. Many thanks to OSW Review for attendance and pay-per-view figures, and to Gina Trujillo for our logo. This is Bob Moore for Alec Pridgen, signing off. Good night, everybody. Happy wrestling.
02:25:28
Speaker
So top three slamberees in terms of pay-per-view buys. Al, what do you think number one is? That's flambery. I did say slamberees. That's because I forgot to update my notes. OK. I was so careful on that. And I see now twice on this page, I've managed to screw that up. As long as the numbers are correct, you can work around. Yes, that. OK, good, good. Yes.
02:25:49
Speaker
The top three Slamberees in terms of attendance. So what do you think number one is? And I said Slamberees again, didn't I? Good gosh. OK. 1997 is a really good show because it has strong forenses. It has a lot of matches that will be on my ultimate slam. You and me both. I know. It's the essence of us together.
02:26:15
Speaker
Big of Booker T. I have Booker T versus Chris Benoit from 1998's Darkade. Oh, see, 1998's Springside B, that is. Makes some different shows now.