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Angela Stockman says "Learner-Centered" rather than "Student-Centered"
171 Plays1 year ago
Twitter - https://twitter.com/AngelaStockman
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Guest survey: https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLSdQbOHl3-uy2eX_TAoIZcmvb-Zj30YTJj6p4Zrpvo0sZ6Va4Q/viewform?usp=sf_link
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Transcript
Introduction to the Podcast
00:00:05
Speaker
Welcome to the Learner Centered Spaces podcast, where we empower and inspire ownership of learning, sponsored by Mastery Portfolio. And I'm one of your hosts, Star Saxton. I'm another host, Emma Chapeta. And I am Crystal Frommert. In each episode, we will bring you engaging conversations with a wide variety of educators, both in and out of the classroom.
00:00:29
Speaker
This podcast is created for educators who want to learn more about how to make the shift toward learner-centered spaces for their students, schools, and districts, or education at large. So get ready to be inspired as we dive right into the conversation with today's guests.
Angela Stockman's Educational Journey
00:00:53
Speaker
Today on the show, we have Angela Stockman, who is an instructional designer and adjunct faculty at Damon University and professional learning facilitator in Buffalo, New York. She is a Buffalo Bills fan, a huge gardener, and has two Labrador retrievers, including one who was a pandemic puppy and now weighs twice as much as his seven year old brother. This is her 30th year in the field of education, and she is taught in every level from K through grade 16.
00:01:23
Speaker
Please welcome Angela to today's episode. Good morning, Angela. We're so excited to have you on with us today. Can you tell us a little bit about yourself, the role, location, a little bit about your journey, and maybe an interesting fact? Sure. I am from Buffalo, New York, where I am an instructional designer and adjunct faculty member in the Education Department at Damon University. I spent a lot of time, actually, in the classroom.
00:01:53
Speaker
mostly a middle school English language arts teacher, although I taught at the elementary level for a tiny bit of time, as well as at the high school level as well. And this is my 30th year in the field, which has really been an opportunity. It's given me an opportunity to maybe pause and reflect a bit. And I think something that's really interesting is that I just this week came upon the realization that no matter where I've worked,
00:02:21
Speaker
or where I've served as a teacher or a professional learning facilitator. One of the common threads that has wound its way through all of my work and kind of created the journey that you asked me to reflect upon is pedagogical documentation. And so I think what's really interesting about me at this point in my career is that while I definitely define myself as a teacher,
00:02:52
Speaker
I think that no matter where I go or what I do, I'll always be someone who documents their learning and that might even be a more constant for me.
00:03:05
Speaker
I love that. I think that I'm a documenter too in a lot of ways, like for better or for worse. Like I'm definitely comfortable calling the realities of what's going on. As a matter of fact, I just got off a call with a pre-service teacher classroom from I think Auburn University. And it's like we had this whole conversation about how teachers,
00:03:32
Speaker
educators in general need to be more transparent about what's going on in their spaces, because I don't know, sometimes I think we come into teaching with a lot of misconceptions about what teaching is. Yeah, and I see those expectations really ruin our experience sometimes.
00:03:53
Speaker
They do. I would totally agree with that. I mean, if you walk into something expecting it to be one way and it's totally different, that dissonance could certainly create additional challenges and it's certainly challenging enough without all
Defining Learner-Centered Spaces
00:04:10
Speaker
of that. So to that end, thinking about
00:04:14
Speaker
what these spaces look like? What does a learner-centered space look like, sound like, feel like to you? And how do you create those spaces at the level you're at now? Well, for me, increasingly, I think the more experience I gain and the older I get, perhaps, they talk about how you calm down as you get older, right? I don't feel that I've calmed down, but I do feel that my experiences have become
00:04:44
Speaker
more rewarding and a bit more fulfilling. And perhaps there's a piece inside of the work now where I'm excited and I'm intrigued, but I think I've let go of the need to be a savior or to fix all problems or to have all of the answers. So for me, a learner centered space is one where I can definitely show up as the teacher, but
00:05:12
Speaker
the learners in the room, the people that I'm trying to serve understand that I'm really there to be humbled by them and to learn from them. And that does not necessarily undermine my role or my influence or the contribution that I can make in that space. It doesn't mean that I should be disrespected because I don't know everything. It actually means that I can
00:05:38
Speaker
invite a more authentic sort of respect which is sort of the shared understanding that we're all learning together. So these spaces are places where learners are making their thinking visible and they're documenting their learning and they're sharing stories about that and I can learn from them. And I'm also feeling comfortable enough to share what I'm trying to learn and what I'm struggling with as the person who's responsible for facilitating learning in that space perhaps. It's like
00:06:08
Speaker
It's a generous sort of space. And we can be, I think, a little bit more sort of gentle with each other, maybe, and aware of the fact that we're all showing up to learn together. I think that's what makes it student-centered or learner-centered. And I think we need to define ourselves as learners in the work too, not just leaders of it.
00:06:38
Speaker
I'm really glad that you said that that, you know, we need to define ourselves as a part of the learner and the learner centered space. I think that that's part of the reason why we called it learner centered spaces instead of student centered spaces, because that's beautiful.
00:06:56
Speaker
Yeah, like we are. I mean, if we want to be effective educators and we really are invested in lifelong learning, then we need to be vulnerable as learners in the spaces with our kiddos. And if we're teaching older kids or younger kids, I think it's just really important that they see us the same way we see them. And I just love that you said that you come to class to be humbled by your kids. I just I think that's beautiful.
00:07:26
Speaker
Thanks. Thank you. I really like that too. And now I'm rethinking. I just submitted an article to, it just became published through Egetopia and I titled it student centered and now I'm rethinking how I titled it. So maybe I can get them to change it to learn. It's really interesting. The words, you know, really matter. And I know Star is a word person too.
00:07:52
Speaker
And so thinking about what it means to be a student versus what it means to be a learner was an invitation that was put in front of me quite a while ago by a mentor who I admired very much and learned much from. And it was really interesting to think about those words student and learner through the lens of compliance. And so now I'm
00:08:16
Speaker
I will tell you, I'm very conscious of when I use the word student, but sometimes you can't avoid it because you're being, it sounds really redundant. Like I'm writing right now. I'm creating, you know, writing a book. And in that work, I'm noticing how hard it is to honor that particular distinction consistently. Particularly when you're talking about making learning visible and learner centered anything.
00:08:43
Speaker
Avoiding the word student is hard, but I'm conscious of what it might mean in a bigger way, and I think that's important. I really like that. You've given me something to think about with the choice of words, and I'm a math teacher, so I feel a little bit left out of the language arts group here, but I'm also a writer, so I think we can live in both worlds, right?
00:09:10
Speaker
Sure. They're all the same world. It's just a little bit of a different language. That's right. I have a question for you about the learner centered space that you're describing. So I'm curious if you could describe how you see assessment playing a role in a learner centered space.
The Role of Multimodal Assessments
00:09:27
Speaker
I think that we need to be really conscious of the multimodal nature of expression. And so when I was a young teacher and even probably 10 years ago,
00:09:38
Speaker
there was this tremendous emphasis and there should be on having high standards and measurable outcomes. And what's been interesting as I've grown up inside of this field and learned more is the misalignment that I see between what an objective or a learning target is inviting us to assess and the modes of expression we're requiring students to, um,
00:10:06
Speaker
express themselves within in order to show that they have demonstrated mastery or progressed toward one of those standards or learning targets. So we tend to privilege print inside of our systems quite often that we're assessing mastery of social studies concepts and we're demanding the use of written words to do that. And I really wonder if there isn't an important misalignment there that might be
00:10:35
Speaker
corrupting the way that we conduct assessment. It's something that I'm learning more about and that is something that has been really humbling over the last 10 years. Assessment is something that an assessment is something we make of a learning situation and learners. It's not necessarily something that we have to give or something that we have to do
00:11:00
Speaker
to learners. I think we've tended, you know, when I was young to define it as a noun, the assessment, give the assessment. And I really try to approach it more as a verb now. And then as a verb, what are all of the different ways that a learner might represent their thinking? Does it have to be the use of written words? Are there other modes of expression?
00:11:26
Speaker
that might enable this learner to demonstrate their understanding better. And that's not to say that writing doesn't matter. But writing is not necessarily the best mode of expression in every context. And also, if we're not necessarily measuring how well learners are using written words, sometimes I think it can create a screen. And so I think we really need to be, when we're talking about centering learners,
00:11:56
Speaker
in the assessment process. I think we need to be really cognizant of their cultural differences and the implications on how we manage and offer and make assessments of their learning.
00:12:11
Speaker
I'm so glad that you're bringing up the multimodal aspect of this, Angela. And it's something that I learn from you about all the time. And I'm curious, because this is a challenge I have when I'm working with teachers, is how do you coach
00:12:29
Speaker
traditionally minded teachers to understand that writing isn't the only way and there are tons of other options and that even if we're looking through the lens of standards, there are other ways to demonstrate knowing, you know, knowing and doing through things that go beyond what we could capture on a page. I think for me,
00:12:58
Speaker
everyone comes to these realizations differently. And so for me, I need to get a sense of who the educator is that I'm trying to serve and what their purpose is for making an assessment or interpreting those findings. So if I'm working with someone who is very interested in improving performance on a standardized assessment,
00:13:23
Speaker
And we can scream and yell all the live long day about how we don't like them and that's fine but it's kind of irrelevant because they exist and the stakes are very high for learners who don't do well on them so we can continue to advocate for change even while serving learners well. And if performance on those assessments really matters.
00:13:43
Speaker
I tend to introduce people to the work of Bill Cope and Mary Kalansis whose research around multi-literacies and their significant contributions to this field, I feel have not received nearly enough attention inside of the field of ELA and assessment literacy. They really help us understand the different modes of expression and they help us understand that literacy is about representation, communication,
00:14:13
Speaker
and the ability to interpret what other people share, that when we go out into the actual world, and even when we're reading a book, it's not just the consumption and production of written words alone that makes us literate learners. And we can leverage multimodality in service to improving comprehension of written words and producing written words. But usually people really need to understand the research base behind that. Some people do.
00:14:41
Speaker
And so sharing their work can be really important. Oftentimes I'm invited to come into systems to improve learning outcomes for students. And when we establish assessment cycles, we often start by triangulating our data and looking at multiple measures. And sometimes the data we have isn't great. And that alerts us to the fact that we really can't be drawing hard and fast conclusions here.
00:15:07
Speaker
Even when we have a lot of, perhaps, trend data around standardized assessments, we still need to get under the hood of that data. Why did students perform the way that they did? And we're not really able to, you know, create meaningful theories there. And there are never answers, but we're not able to create meaningful theories about why students might have performed the way they did unless we do invite multimodal expression. And so,
00:15:36
Speaker
The work of Bill Cope and Mary Kolasas, I don't think is really appreciated enough yet inside of the fields and the circles that I travel in as an English language arts minded, you know, public educator in New York state. But I also believe that when people are doing meaningful assessment work, most of them already understand the importance of assessments that help us make determinations about
00:16:06
Speaker
multimodal expression and the relationship between those modes and how students are representing what they know and how they're contributing to their growth as people who produce and read words too. So balancing all of that is really important. What I'm working with educators who are not necessarily keeping their eye on a test but certainly want to improve
00:16:33
Speaker
how they're serving learners in their classrooms. Oftentimes it's really meaningful to push into the classroom briefly and conduct a lesson study and kind of demonstrate how a multimodal process can actually help learners become better readers and writers of written words too. Sometimes people need to see that in action in order to understand it. I also believe documenting my own learning and sharing that
00:17:03
Speaker
evidence with teachers has been really powerful as well. So if I have a lot of video and a lot of pictures and I can storyboard an entire learning experience and make that a multimodal story where I'm not just telling them what the experience was, but I'm showing them the images and I'm inviting them to listen to the voices of young learners as they're explaining what they're doing, it's impactful. So I think the approach
00:17:32
Speaker
changes depending on what people need. But those are some of the bigger things that seem to make a difference. As a math teacher, I will say that I've also been an instructional coach as well, working with teachers in all subjects. And communication goes across the board as far as the multimodal assessment.
Innovative Practices at West Valley Central School
00:17:57
Speaker
We write narrative comments for our students at the end of each grading term.
00:18:01
Speaker
And I mentioned that we might have some students who are fantastic at showing me how they know their algebra skills in a written format. But I'm also looking for how they communicate that verbally and talk with each other in a small group because mathematics is not just a skill that's written down on paper only, you also have to communicate your thinking.
00:18:25
Speaker
to other people. So I love that that multimodal assessment is coming across through all subjects and we could do better I think as educators on how we're assessing that and encouraging that in our kids. I agree, absolutely.
00:18:42
Speaker
So you have such good work that you share with educators and aspiring educators. And I'm curious if you have any shout outs that you would like to give to other people who have inspired you in your work and what you've done so far. Sure. I think this is usually a space where I'm supposed to name other experts in the field and perhaps books they've published. And I do that often. And when I was preparing for this conversation,
00:19:12
Speaker
I thought that it would be a really great place for me to actually mention one of the school districts that I've supported over the last few years. That's West Valley Central School District here in Western New York. It's very rare to encounter entire departments where teachers are really committed to learning how they might serve their students better and who truly kind of humble themselves to their students in a way that
00:19:43
Speaker
you know, just fosters such incredible growth and professional learning too. And in this particular case, it's not just a department, it is the entire K 12 team and all of the English teachers. There is not a single one of them, um, that has not really committed so beautifully and in ways that are just inspiring to me. Every time I walk into that school, a teacher,
00:20:10
Speaker
is pulling me toward their classroom or bringing in their documentation, notebooks and sketchbooks and pictures and artifacts. They'll stop down when I'm not even working with their grade level to tell me decisions that they've made that are in alignment with some of the learning and work we're doing and how it's changed their practice and the way they think and also their students. And it's shaped the culture of their classrooms in ways that it's never perfect.
00:20:38
Speaker
And they are still, of course, you know, having hard days and there are big problems to solve no matter where you teach, but I just, I could not be more grateful for a group of educators right now than I am for them. And they inspire me every time I visit and on many days in between. So that's who I wanted to give a shout out to.
00:21:00
Speaker
Well, you are our very first guest who has given a shout out to a school or a department within a school. So way to go, West Valley. Question, how could educators listening to this or anyone listening to this podcast episode find out more information about what West Valley is doing? Do they share this out in any way? I share some small things, but you know, I'll be really honest over the last 15 years, I have
00:21:29
Speaker
thousands of points of data in the form of pictures and videos. I never out kids or teachers or administrators online unless, first of all, I have their permission. And second of all, usually they've asked me to. And so I'm not sharing their work in a big way right now, although I have referenced it lately and especially the work of Lisa Green on my Instagram.
00:21:56
Speaker
who is a teacher who really dove headlong into documentation and while she's still new to the work, she's doing such incredibly meaningful stuff with her students. I am featuring them in my new book on pedagogical documentation, which will be published by Routledge shortly.
00:22:15
Speaker
And I do speak to their work lightly in newsletters, but if anyone wanted to know more, they could reach out to me directly and I could put them in touch with some of the teachers there and the cool stuff that they're doing. I love that you're always such an advocate for the amazing work that people are doing in their spaces. I think for as long as I've known you, you have always been a champion of
00:22:39
Speaker
like just all the good stuff and even when things are challenging you find a way to celebrate the things that are working so that folks work from there and it's for me it's always great to be hearing about the things you're doing because
00:22:55
Speaker
you really demonstrate and model the things we always talk about, about asset-based learning. And I think everybody should take the opportunity to get to know your work more, particularly just this new multimodal work that you've been putting out over the last few years and just
00:23:16
Speaker
Even your older stuff, I mean, I love make writing. It's something that I definitely recommend to a lot of people still, even though it's been around a bit. It's always one of those things that people don't understand that the writing process can actually be a makerspace of learning instead of just
00:23:37
Speaker
kind of the old standby. So to that end, how can folks find you if they want to learn more about your work or if they want to get in touch with you?
Connecting with Angela Stockman
00:23:49
Speaker
Well, I think that, you know, the landing page is just AngelaStockman.com and you can find me from there and other social networks. I'm on Twitter at Angela Stockman, I'm on Instagram at Angela Make Writing, and I'm on LinkedIn too. So people can find me in any of those places.
00:24:07
Speaker
I hope that they will because, um, you know, my foray into having a wider sort of audience began with make writing. And I love that book and it was scary and also exciting to write, but really every book that I've written has been the next piece of my learning and what I'm learning along the way.
00:24:34
Speaker
And it's just, it's taught me that it's really not about make writing and it's really not about the content of what I'm sharing. It's about the relationships that I'm building with other people like you star and your listeners. We're all this like great network of people and we know how to help one another get better at what we do and avoid burnout and stay inspired and make hard moves and decisions. And so I hope people do reach out because.
00:25:02
Speaker
I think that there's a lot to be worried about and concerned about in the field of education right now, but what really holds me up is people like you and our colleagues who stay connected online and do good work for the right reasons.
00:25:16
Speaker
Well, thanks so much, Angela. I honestly, I don't even know how long we've known each other now, but I feel like it's been a good... A long time. Yeah, a really long time. And there hasn't been one time in any interaction I've had with you where I've walked away not feeling better for the time that we've connected. Right back at you, my friend. Right back at you.
00:25:40
Speaker
And I appreciate that. So I really do hope that folks take the opportunity to reach out to Angela because not only does she share the most amazing stuff about this multimodal approach, it's very informative. And if you haven't signed up for her newsletter yet, it's absolutely amazing and informative.
00:25:59
Speaker
You're very welcome. I actually, you know, I admire it so much. And also as somebody who helps put together a newsletter, appreciate how challenging it must be to come up with something that's both useful, readable and something people will click on and take part in. So I just, I just hope everybody listening takes the opportunity to get to know Angela's work a little bit more because she just, she understands
00:26:28
Speaker
teaching and learning better than most educators I've come in contact with over the years.
Episode Conclusion and Listener Feedback
00:27:00
Speaker
Thank you for learning with us today. We hope you enjoyed the conversation as much as we did. If you'd like any additional information from the show, check out the show notes. Learn more about Mastery Portfolio and how we support schools at masteryportfolio.com. You can follow us on Twitter at masteryforall and on LinkedIn on our Mastery Portfolio page.
00:27:22
Speaker
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