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Allen Schagene says AI is a literacy
71 Plays1 month ago
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/aschagene/
email: allen.schagene@gmail.com
Music by AudioCoffee: https://www.audiocoffee.net/
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Transcript
Introduction and Podcast Overview
00:00:00
Speaker
Welcome to the Learner Centered Spaces podcast where we empower and inspire ownership of learning. Sponsored by Mastery Portfolio, hosted by Starr Saxton and Crystal Frommert.
00:00:14
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In each episode, we will bring you engaging conversations with a wide variety of educators, both in and out of the classroom. This podcast is created for educators who want to learn more about how to make the shift toward learner-centered spaces for their students, schools, and districts, or education at large. The Learner-Centered Spaces podcast is a member of the Teach Better Podcast Network.
00:00:40
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Get ready to be inspired as we dive right into the conversation with today's guest. We are
Introducing Alan Shagny and His Role
00:00:47
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so very excited to have Alan Shagny on our show today. Alan currently serves as the Director of Innovative Learning at the Schlinker School, where he teaches pre-K-4 through fifth grade students, digital citizenship and technology skills through integrated approaches that connect with classroom learning. Prior to his role as Director of Innovative Learning, Alan served as a math educator and self-contained teacher, where he developed a passion for integrated teaching methods.
00:01:15
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Outside of his work as an educator, Alan is a co-math facilitator at Rice University's Applied Mathematics Program, where he supports teachers in developing inquiry-based instructional practices using the question formulation technique. Alan's passion lies in exploring how artificial intelligence can be utilized with students, including those in elementary classrooms. Alan has been named as one of ISTE's 20 to watch in 2024.
00:01:42
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and he is currently a community leader for ISTE. We're so happy to have Alan on the show today. Welcome, Alan. Thank you for having me. Well, thank you for being here. Can you tell
Transformative Teaching Methods in PYP
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us a defining moment in your education journey? For me,
00:02:00
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when it sort of I guess with teaching would be a defining moment. So for me, I grew up and I sort of knew the system of how to do well in school. So it wasn't until I actually started teaching that I actually learned mathematics and and understanding mathematics. But more importantly, it wasn't until I started teaching self-contained fifth grade and I started teaching the PYP program, which is the IB program for elementary schools.
00:02:26
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and understanding that you can teach in this sort of integrated way where you can connect these universal concepts to the standards that you teach students. So I remember pretty vividly one of the unit plans that we had was about conflict. And so conflict can be seen in social studies as that is basically everything there is. You had conflict between the US and Britain over um over the United States. And then you have conflict when you think about forces and science. So you have friction that that's conflict in a sense of rubber meets the pavement. And then you can think about like in mathematics, when you're plotting points on a coordinate plane, you can sort of connect this concept here between like slope. right So like we call it as the slippery slope. So it sort of fit fits and jives a little bit together.
00:03:22
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So that to me was sort of a defining moment for me, but I think for me, I knew exactly what to do as a student most of my life. And my defining moment was becoming an educator and recognizing all the things that tie together.
00:03:41
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I love that. I'm a math teacher as well and it doesn't stand alone, right? It's very much connected to what we're doing in humanities, to what we're doing in obviously the world and current events and what we're doing in the sciences. So I love that you have an integrated approach. And I think that could be done all the way from pre-K into post-secondary, right? That sometimes we think that our subject is in a silo and it's not quite like that.
00:04:07
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So
Defining Learner-Centered Spaces
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let me ask you the next question about learner-centered spaces. What does a learner-centered space look like, feel like, and sound like to you?
00:04:18
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Learner at Center space is taking the considerations of where students are and what students are asking for and making that part of the classroom experience. um And I think the best way to sort of take this approach is have I know a teacher that I currently work with and in her room they have a space for this the students to change out. And it's kind of like a, you would call it a play area, but it's like if the students want to learn about astronauts, they might build, she she makes helmets so that when they go to this area, they get to play with these helmets and they get to go over there and do different things that are tied to that area. One time they were studying artists and they actually made an art gallery. And as students were working on art, they hung it up like like in an art gallery.
00:05:08
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And so it's it's that part of that space um that just sort of transforms that, but the direction comes from the students. It doesn't necessarily come from and the teacher. So the teacher sort of says, this is what we're you know going into. what what do you What do you all think about this space? So that to me includes the learners. And so I think a lot of times we institutions. I wouldn't say everybody, but institutions or or things forget that students do have needs and and that they do have a voice and there are some things that they would like to see or explore more of. And sometimes we have to take the time to
00:05:49
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step away from this fast-paced society of we have to get to you know this part of things for all students to be successful when in fact we can go a little bit deeper into some things based off of what our where our kids are telling us.
00:06:05
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so Hopefully that i answered that question in the sense of it's it's basically listening to the kids and making sure that they are part of our conversation and what we do. I guess we have to get to a certain place, but at the same time, we also want to make sure that we're inclusive of their voice in making sure that they get to where we want them to get.
00:06:24
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Yeah, and I think as an educator, it's difficult, right, to so strike that balance between we've got the scope and sequence and depending on your school or your district, that could be really strict and rigid or maybe not. um And then we also have to balance, you know, following where our kids are and and following their interests and what's next for them logically and developmentally. So what advice would you have for an educator who might push back to that and say,
00:06:54
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I just, I can't, I can't yeah incorporate student
Incorporating Student Interests in Curriculum
00:06:58
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interests. I can't and incorporate um where my students are because I've got this really rigid, strict scope and sequence we have to follow. I would say start small. Whenever I'm doing inquiry-based practices, this seems to be a roadblock that we run into as well. So like inquiry-based learning is all about looking at pictures and examples and having kids learn to generate their own questions. And again, it's my curriculum is rigid. How do I involve this? And so it's all about starting small, find places where you can insert opportunities for student voice. And so maybe that's, I don't know, like the
00:07:37
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one part of your lesson or one part of the sequence of your lesson involves student and voice. Maybe it's the first part in the engage where you're thinking about ways that you can incorporate student interest. So from how you're engaging students, you're tying into things that they like, whether that be sports related, whether that be gymnastics, you're you're pulling things in that's relatable to your students. It could be the activities that you have. It could be that the questions that you use involve student names.
00:08:05
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So it doesn't necessarily have to be this grand s thing all the time. um it It's just about thinking about how you can use your parameters or your constraints and then sort of meet some some interests where they are and then think about other ways that you can sort of start tying in student interest into into the things that you do.
00:08:26
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um Because a lot of times, right, we are bound by things that are not not within our locus of control. But we have to think about how we can then incorporate student interest into some of those things without step veering too far away where we you know get in trouble or fall behind in a sense. So that's why I would say start small, think about how you can incorporate some of their interest and the engage part of your lesson or even in um the independent part of the lesson or maybe you're doing a project. here It just depends on where you want to place that and then work from there and where you're comfortable. I would always say start small and then once you get pretty comfortable in an area, move forward from there.
00:09:15
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I love that advice. And i I think I'm following it a little bit. i I teach geometry in high school and we're pretty traditional. You know, we've got quizzes and tests and the traditional lessons of theorems and postulates, all the things that you see in a traditional geometry class. But while I can't throw all that out, right out the window, I still have to do those things. I'm bringing in a small art project that they're doing right. And it's,
00:09:43
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It's not taking away from the curriculum. It's actually adding to the curriculum because we're using constructions and understanding elements of geometry and vocabulary, but they're creating art with it. So I really like your advice because I think there there are ways and it doesn't have to be completely overhauling your whole curriculum. You could just do a small couple of days.
00:10:04
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you know, quick art project with the kids or, ah you know, anything that you could get creative with um to bring in their voice and and their choices. So
Enhancing Literacy with AI Chatbots
00:10:15
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my, I know that you are a recipient of the ISTE Award and could you talk a little bit more about how AI, artificial intelligence might be incorporated into a learner centered classroom?
00:10:30
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Sure. So in a learner center classroom, when you're thinking about AI, it's not just this you know separate entity. So when I first started with AI, and then you have these companies that launch student spaces, um my biggest draw in was character chatbot, because AI is a literacy, just like English is. and so you're only The output is only as good as the input if you're thinking about it mathematically. So to make sure that kids understand that there are things that you can put into the input that produces ah the best output is something we want to teach our kids. So in thinking about character chatbots and connecting that to literacy, when you're reading a book, you can really know a character and dive deep into that character. And then you can have a conversation with that character and recognize
00:11:22
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the benefits of AI, but also the drawbacks of it. so And I think that's good to expose students to that. And so one of the things that I sort of did with this character chatbot is I was like, you know, this would be really cool to think about how we can have conversations with ah past characters that you can't have a conversation with anymore. So it's, it's like we called it founding, the founding fathers, but now I've changed it to founding figures because I just feel like that language is more inclusive. And then you can sort of involve other places besides just the USA um in this. So students started with chatting with a character that they really knew a lot about. A lot of them pick people like Taylor Swift. Some of them pick characters like Harry Potter.
00:12:09
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right and they asked them questions and so they sort of got to play with this and then we chatted they got to pick a founding figure to then have a conversation with and then ask the founding figure questions and then make sure that those questions met the crap test uh that they were reliable information and then they got to create something outside like a resource for that sort of conversation. So tied into what they were doing in social studies and in currently in their classroom and then sort of working from there. So this sort of integrated piece, it's sort of but what I like to say is what I like to do is tap into what students are currently doing to enrich that experience. um A lot of people, I don't want technology or just what I do to be a standalone. I wanted to actually integrate into what
00:13:03
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kids are doing so that there's like purpose and reason for the things that we're doing. I love that idea of the character chatbot. That's really fun. how So this this character chatbot, like how do teachers and students get access to something like this? like What's the practical next step for them? Practical next step. So there's a couple of places that you could, so if you're a chat GPT user, um i'm you can make a custom bot that would be a character chat bot. If you're not a chat GPT user, um you have Gemini cloud, you can do you can create custom things like that. you can
00:13:44
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create that sort of bot, or if you don't want to have to go through that rabbit hole, there are companies that have that bot available. um Magic School is one of those places. School AI is another place that also has that. And so it just depends on, a lot of people would say, well, Alan, is that free or is that a freemium? And so what I would say to that is everything can be free, you just have to put in a little bit of work. And and so what I mean by that is if you go through and you apply to like the, ah I think for magic school, it's a pioneer. And if you apply to be, I think school AI has an insider is what they're called. And they're like 15 minute trainings. And then you you learn about the tool itself. And then your job is just to talk about the tool on social media or share things that you're doing with the tool on social media. So there's like a trade off, right? So um from a basic economic standpoint,
00:14:40
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There's no such thing as a free lunch, is what I would say to that. and But things are available. You just have to be comfortable with trying prompts and sort of figuring them out. But you can create your own if you use Chant GPT.
00:14:52
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um which I think a lot of people use, or you can find a place that already has something like that in one of those tools. and they're using so The thing about Magic School and and School AI is they're using some of that those other chatbots to run their bots as well. so They've sort of created these things, they've programmed them. so They've done all the legwork of creating the custom bot behind another sort of on their own platform using a tool like whether it's chat GPT or Gemini or Claude or Perplexity to run that bot. It just depends on what gives them the best output for that particular tool to be available. And thinking
Exploring AI Tools for Education
00:15:37
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about those tools that are specifically for schools, do they have parameters around students under the age of 13 using those? Because I know that
00:15:47
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chat DTP, right? we we I think there's some legal verbiage there about students under 13. So how does that work for our younger kids? So great, this is a great question. So for younger students, it's kind of like why I use Magic School. So Magic School is available for students. And so they follow. They had a 93% privacy rating recently. um And they they have a student space that you launch as the teacher. So it because I taught math and I'm familiar with Desmos, when you launch the the tool itself to students, it feels very much like that. Like I can control.
00:16:24
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um When the students see it, I can stop it. I can keep them from having access to it outside of like the classroom space because my my job is to facilitate these conversations with them in a controlled environment. And then I also get to see everything they they generate. So I can actually go in and pool the whole conversation that a student had with something. So it gives me all of that that data as well.
00:16:48
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um the interactions what they ask the bot to do and so to me that's that's a great piece in teaching because then i can sort of see like areas that i missed or areas that i need to work on or even things that we did exceedingly well right so that data pieces important um on the teacher end of like knowing what students are asking and making sure that.
00:17:09
Speaker
it's meeting the needs that we've established. And on a chat GPT end, what I've heard from other educators who have used that with younger students is that they just put it up in their classroom, ah like on a board, and then they set it up to where the students are just interacting with it in a way that is helpful to their learning.
00:17:29
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um So they might have created the custom chatbot and then the input would be between the teacher and the student. So the student would come up and there would be a conversation and then you're having an interaction that way. So there's ways around things. It just like depends on how your approach and the way you want to do that. And then School AI also is available for students.
00:17:53
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um As well as magic school so that that's why you have those tools in the ed tech space that are available to students um Because Chad GPT technically isn't so there was a market for that Well, thank you for those practical tips because I know there's probably some educators or administrators out there listening going. Oh, I don't know right I don't know what the legal parameters are around that so that's really helpful to know and that it's quite accessible and there are ways that we can use it in the classroom in a safe way for the students. um
Acknowledgments and Gratitude
00:18:26
Speaker
So I know that no educator gets to where we are, no successful person gets to where they are alone, right? So do you have anybody you'd like to shout out from along your journey as an educator who's helped you and to get to where you are today?
00:18:43
Speaker
There's so many people, right? So I think wherever you go, no matter who you encounter, there's always someone and that's there guiding you and helping you to the next step. So I would first say that my my adoptive parents, shout out to them for one, taking the time to invest in me and make me write my essay for college too many times to count um and and for believing in me.
00:19:12
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I think that that probably am I my dad's an educator um one so um that's helpful and then he was he was also my teacher which which is also helpful but there has been a lot of people like just when I was growing up that just saw potential in me, sort of gave me the wisdom that I needed to have. And then just the people that I work with, I'm thankful for them every day as well for the work that they do as students ah for taking the time to really think about student needs and and putting that at the forefront of what they do. And then of course, like you know, my loving husband who is super supportive of of the work that I'm doing and for his beliefs in me as well.
00:19:56
Speaker
And then I would say ISTE itself is a great community. So shout out to them for all of the support and all of the love. I think that it is helpful to have a great PLN to keep you motivated because sometimes it can be hard feeling alone in spaces of EdTech. So I would say,
00:20:18
Speaker
I would say that that's probably all. Oh, and probably, and I would say too for my side, for my side, what I do on the side with inquiry based instruction to the team at our STEM. I would also say shout out to them. They've been hugely helpful in my own, in my own journey as well and super supportive. And so.
00:20:41
Speaker
But I just think, you know, you reciprocate what the energy that people give and the energy that people pour into you. So it's, it's just a reciprocation of, of that. Well, thank you for sharing that. And your husband is also going to be a guest on learner centered spaces as well. So listeners look for that episode with Dr. Matt Panazzo.
Connecting with Alan Shagny
00:21:04
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So Alan, you are remarkable because you are an educator who not only educates kids, but also other educators. And you are a math guy, a technology guy, and humanities. You've you've got it all. And I hope that and Maybe maybe schools can reach out to you for consulting or p PD or something I don't know because I feel like more schools need more Alan so thank you ah for for sharing all of your talents and um Do you have an online presence can listeners find you online? Yes, so I do have an online presence although It's been kind of slow esque but my online presence on Twitter is just my name which is Alan jagney so just
00:21:51
Speaker
Alan Shagny at Alan Shagny and you can find me there. If you're more interested in what I do in a workout sense, that's what I post on Instagram is just me going to the gym and get hope, providing inspiration for other people to to um put in that self care work because you also need that in this work that you do as well. You got to take care of self in order to take care of others. And then on LinkedIn, I believe you can just find me at Alan Shagny as well. And then I,
00:22:22
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repost something that I think is worthwhile. um So you can find me on those places or you can just reach out to me ah and and set up something if you want to as well. And I'm happy to jump on a call or talk people through things. this this work To me, this work is is all about like sharing. I think it's good that we share because I think they're able to reach as many kids as possible is important to me.
00:22:49
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so Thank you, Alan. This has been very helpful and we appreciate your time being on our show. Thank you.
Engagement and Feedback Opportunity
00:23:00
Speaker
We hope you enjoyed the conversation as much as we did. If you'd like any additional information from the show, check out the show notes. Learn more about Mastery Portfolio and how we support schools at masteryportfolio dot.com. You can follow us on X at MasteryForAll and linked in our Mastery Portfolio page.
00:23:22
Speaker
We'd love for you to engage with us. If you'd like to be a guest in the show or know someone who would be an inspiring guest, please fill out the survey found in the show notes. And we'd love your feedback. Please write a review on your favorite podcasting app.