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Don Buckley reflects on "I like, I wish, what if..."
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Transcript
Podcast Introduction
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Welcome to the Learner Centered Spaces podcast where we empower and inspire ownership of learning. Sponsored by Mastery Portfolio, hosted by Starr Saxton and Crystal Frommert.
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In each episode, we will bring you engaging conversations with a wide variety of educators, both in and out of the classroom. This podcast is created for educators who want to learn more about how to make the shift toward learner-centered spaces for their students, schools, and districts, or education at large. The Learner-Centered Spaces podcast is a member of the Teach Better podcast network.
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Get ready to be inspired as we dive right into the conversation with today's guest.
Meet Don: The World Traveler & Artist
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of tools at schools and Rewind Reset Forward, and visiting scholar. We asked him to give us one sentence about his purpose and passion and he said to inspire my students and get them started on their learning journey. He is a world traveler and loves art, design, architecture, and film, and he has even been to North Korea. So welcome Don to the show today. i Thank you, Griselyn Starr.
00:01:36
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So I'm very curious, Don, as you get into your conversation about where you are in your current learning journey and what got you there, but I'm very curious about North Korea. I had the opportunity to present in South Korea a bunch of years ago, and I'd love to be able to compare the experiences. Yeah, well, I actually have worked in Seoul as well. I was there, the State Department brought me over there as a visiting scholar. um But the North Korea story is, my My wife is Korean, but born in the United States. Her parents are from both South Korea. And her dad was born in Kaesong, which ended up in North Korea. So he's technically North Korean. And and um the story was his um parents sent him south when they thought there was you know going to be problems. And um he went to Seoul to stay with friends and never saw his parents again.
00:02:32
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And so um he eventually, he's a physician a cardiologist, he eventually um through a Canadian organization were able to track down his family. And the only remaining one of his generation was his younger sister. And so he would, he was able to go to North Korea on a couple of trips because um he was a cardiologist and he would have to barter his skills to get him to see his family type of scenario. And that's how he started going there.
00:03:02
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And my wife and I, Leah, went um in 2013 to what's called the Mass Games. You might have seen these as when they have these their version of these sort of games where it looks like it's all this digital stuff, but it's actually people that are moving. It's just like a phenomenal thing. But we went there in 2013 as tourists, because you could go there as a tourist. Not a lot of people um ah know that. And so um we went there as tourists.
00:03:31
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ah so What we did was there's an an American company based in New Jersey that will organize the tour for you. And you end up going to Beijing and from Beijing, that's where you get your papers to go to Pyongyang. Interesting story is um we flew from LaGuardia, LaGuardia, o'hare O'Hare, O'Hare Beijing, Beijing, Pyongyang. And when we were checking in at LaGuardia, they said, what's your last destination? And I said, Pyongyang,
00:03:59
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And you know they put it into the thing. And she's like, we don't have that. I can't find that. And I said, oh, well, Beijing. And so Beijing came up. And at that's when it struck me that there was no record of us ever being there, if anything had ever happened.
00:04:17
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So it was pretty fascinating. It was amazing. I totally recommend people to go. It's like going back in time, no traffic lights, very cool people, very stylish. um Yeah, it was like a phenomenal trip. I mean, absolutely amazing.
00:04:34
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That's super cool. um All right. Well, let's see if we can tie some of that into how you got to where you are on your journey right
From Chemistry to Classroom: Don's Journey
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now. So tell us a little bit about how you how you got into education. um Completely by default. am I i so was studying chemistry um and I'm from Cork and in Ireland.
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Irish Republic. um I did a primary degree in chemistry. um And then I did my master's in analytical chemistry, which is really the merge between computers and chemistry. and And I was working as a drug designer. on My first job as a drug designer in the pharmaceutical industry, and which was great. and um But I was also ah really interested in photography. And I really wanted to study photography and not science. I wanted to go to art school, but that never happened.
00:05:30
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And so um I was living in Southwest of Ireland and I saw an advert in New Scientist, which is a great science magazine, and they were looking for research assistants at Imperial College London um to do, to enter their PhD program. um And so I showed it to some of my colleagues and they so they said, I said, like, should I apply for this? They said, yeah, apply for it. So I applied for it and I got into the PhD program.
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and ah And then I was to them, oh my God, should I? And they said, of course you should go, it's really prestigious place. And I thought, you know what, I'm gonna do it, but if I get to London, I'll really be able to work at my photography. And so I went there, started a PhD, was working as a photographer, and it was hard to survive, so I started tutoring, hence my entry into education.
00:06:22
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What an interesting journey. what What did you tutor and and what age of students did you tutor? They were, I would tutor A level chemistry. Oh, okay. Okay. So you and I worked together at the same school um and I've been in your classroom. I've seen some of your presentations. You have some really cool stuff that you're doing with students and also some independent learning. um So I would like to ask you about how project-based learning,
00:06:50
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you're You're very student-centered in your instruction. And I would like to ask, how does that play a role in what you decide to do with students and
Innovative Teaching: Agility & Ambiguity
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what projects? And and how does learner-centered education play a role in all of that? um I guess my first thing is I usually go to class with what I call three versions of myself.
00:07:11
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And those three versions can lead to three very different experiences, depending on what I pick up from the students in the class. So I'm very agile and very fluid. And with prompts, I decide which is the way we want it What journey do we want to take that day? um I start most of my classes with, and you've seen me do this, Crystal, with a an activity called ambiguous object. The history of the ambiguous object is um I noticed when we went into the lockdown how people really were not comfortable with ambiguity.
00:07:49
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And the thing with ambiguity and navigating it, that's the superpower of being an entrepreneur, an innovator, or a designer. You've got to be comfortable not knowing the answer. So I taught a lot about how can we do a daily practice of navigating ambiguity. And so what I did was um every time I go into the classroom, and this goes for my graduate students and my Marymount students, I bring in an object or objects whom it's not obvious what its function is. And so students can ask me questions about it, but what I'm playing with here is I'm getting them comfortable not knowing the right answer, whereas education is often about the right answer, right or wrong. So I'm having them stew in this ambiguous zone to actually build up the ambiguous muscles so that they can navigate and ambiguity and and be great innovators, entrepreneurs, designers, whatever they want to do, scientists.
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Can you tell us a little bit more about the three versions of yourself? What are those three versions? The three versions are like three ideas of where that class might go. I might say, you know what, like let me plan a rapid prototyping activity. OK, maybe something like a prompt like let's design a wearable device that makes you a better learner.
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So I could be thinking about, oh, a prototyping activity, which is, you know, a step in the design thinking process, which is essentially what I'm thinking, empathy define, ideate prototype test. It could be, I'm going to go in and introduce idea flow or ideation. Idea flow is, or to actually come up with ideas, you have to be constantly in a state of idea flow.
00:09:31
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And so what I want the students is to come up with just as much bad ideas as good ideas. OK, so, for instance, when I went into class today, um ah some of the students were late and they were late and you will know this is because they were pushed off the elevator by the seniors. OK, and but this is a school rule star. ah Students aren't allowed. I don't know what the rule is specifically because I don't abide by it. um I don't abide by many rules. But um so, you know what I mean? That is an opportunity for me to say, OK, let's ideate around this problem. So that could be that was the version that happened today was we iterated. So I thought, oh, maybe I'll do rapid prototyping. Maybe it's ideation or maybe I'll use Lego series play to help us understand the vernacular of entrepreneurship.
00:10:25
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Okay, very very interesting. um Yes, the elevator situation is a problem and it it makes me late sometimes too. it It is an issue. um I love that. I love that you kind of start class with, I don't know where we're going to head and which direction we're goingnna going to go in, kind of like a choose your adventure type novel in a way. um You're very inspirational and I wish every teacher could come see you teach and see your class.
00:10:54
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But if they can't, what advice would you have for other educators so they could be a little bit more pivoting-like or just open to ambiguity and open to ideas brewing in their classroom?
Building Student Relationships
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um you know I think education is about a relationship. And so the first thing you have to do is start having a relationship with the students in your class. And that's the same as my graduate students and my 10th, 11th, 12th graders that I teach. So really focusing on a relationship. And often I feel with educators in the classroom, they draw this line that they will not pass and are quite rigid about what students know and feel about them.
00:11:39
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Whereas I really believe in letting the students know a little bit about what you are personally, because I think that creates such a great start for an educational relationship, even if it's like a picture of your dog or your spouse or whatever it is. So I think that's really important to establish the base. and The other thing is to really see how they feel when they come in the room.
00:12:01
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You know, um because what if they've had like just got back test with a lousy mark? Are they ready for your class? So I'm very cognizant of um that type of thing. um And so um then ah what I'm very open to is their ideas. Like I say to them, okay, I haven't, I just did took this class at Stanford and I learned about this methodology and I want to prototype it today. Are you guys with me?
00:12:28
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And they say, yeah, yeah, we'll do it. And with something like that, I always will end my lesson with the standard d-school feedback. I like, I wish, what if? And I'm telling you, that invariably turns into other multiple lessons. Now, I mean, for the audience, I have the advantages. I'm not teaching content. I'm teaching process. I'm teaching ah design thinking. I'm teaching entrepreneurship. And a new course I'm prototyping is product engineering design.
00:12:55
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so My classes and the one I teach at TC is designing to get education. It's really all about process, you know, so I'm able to shift and change as scenarios reveal themselves. And I want the students to see me as agile and then be comfortable with agile. So I'll read something in FAS company. and I'm like, okay, let's talk about um this thing here that I just read about last night, something like that.
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So let me can ask you a question as a, as an algebra teacher. I have, you know, I set scope and sequence and topics that I'm quote unquote supposed to cover through the year. Um, so how would you recommend someone who has kind of restraints that I have in my type of course, how could I be more agile and pivot more on student relationships?
00:13:47
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Um, like I've seen a couple of teachers here, like there's ah there's a bunch of teachers are using ambiguous object, you know, like you could even starting the class with that, that takes five minutes. Well, you know, change the tone of the class.
00:14:01
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And I feel as well with any class, like if you're teaching content, always end with the reflection piece. I like, I wish, what if. So those two like start and ends. And and if we look at that in the whole UX user experience and in the design world, we we think about the five tenets of anything you any experience you design. Attract, enter, engage, exit, extend.
00:14:27
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And maybe in an algebra class like yours, you focus like these two twists on the enter and exit phases and think about things that you can do in those or even think about the extension, which is homework and what that might be or how could that be different? Wow. Thank you so much for those.
Acknowledging Influential Educators
00:14:47
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tips. I think a lot of folks are going to find them really useful, Dawn. Now we like to spend some time with some shout outs. So based on where you are in your journey right now, are there specific folks that you'd like to shout out that people listening should be following, looking, reading into? ah Yeah, definitely. I mean, I have like so many people that inspire me, um you know, in in what I call the real world. But educator Let me start with some educators. so Eric Walters, that who's the department chair in creative technology, that um ah Crystal knows well, is an incredible educator and a great, great colleague. Amazing to work with. Absolute shout out to him. Shout out to Lucy Gray, who's um my co-founder in and Actionable um Innovations Global.
00:15:38
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ah Lucy is a global educator and very agile and always looking to do innovative stuff. And then Ellen Dutcher, who's out on the West Coast, whom I met at the D School, is and also another phenomenal educator.
00:15:53
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and You had a guest on a couple of weeks ago, Johnny Chu. there I worked with Johnny. I was director of innovation at the School of Columbia of University, and I worked with Johnny. There's so many great people there still ah that inspire me. And then, like, in if we go out of education, um Renata Roo and Yoan Leiden, who are co-founders of Rulodin and who I co-founded Tools at Schools with, this was back in 2013, just after I left school at Columbia University full-time and tools at schools was a not-for-profit where we co-designed products with students which we brought to market and we had a bunch of successful products in terms of desk chairs and lockers and a couple of staple launches with their back-to-school products and Johan and Renat are the ones
00:16:43
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that really introduced me to the design world. So I owe them everything for for that because that brought me into a whole other space to work in and which is what I've been doing since 2013.
Don's Online Presence: YouTube & Medium
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And I know you have some online presence because you have some YouTube videos that I've seen and um a podcast and we'll we'll link all of that to the show notes. Do you want to share a little bit more about where listeners could find you and learn learn more about what you do? Yeah, I have a YouTube channel with with a bunch of stuff on there, which is really, there was a lot of that was back with 3D printing and when that started.
00:17:20
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um I have a medium blog that I shamelessly haven't touched for a year, but there's some great resources if you're interested in teaching entrepreneurship or design on there. um A lot of my stuff that I'm inspired with goes on my Instagram feed. um That's probably my favorite social media, and I do share student work on there as well.
00:17:43
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Well, we will definitely post all of that and we appreciate it. I think we learned so much from you in this short time of talking to you. So thank you for being on the show. No, thank you guys for the invite. Thanks, Dan. Cheers.
00:18:00
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