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Episode 49: Hog / Road Wild Retrospective
59 Plays3 years ago
We've finished up another series - that's five down now! So join us as we discuss the Hog / Road Wild series as a whole. See how you do remembering some series facts. Plus: Who will get the coveted Series MVP awards, and which matches made our Ultimate cards? For all this, plus news of our plans for Episode 50, Let's Go to the Ring!
Music by Michael Gary Brewer at https://www.instantmusicnow.com/
Follow us on Twitter at https://twitter.com/letsgo2thering , or on Facebook at https://www.facebook.com/LetsGo2theRing/
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Transcript
00:00:02
Speaker
It's not written down. It's not written down here at all.
Introduction and Overview
00:00:33
Speaker
Hello everyone, and welcome to Let's Go to the Ring, where we take a look at the good old days, and not so good old days, of World Championship Wrestling Series by Series. I'm your host, Bob Moore, and I was joined by a series of WCW referees who were all unfortunately knocked unconscious in rapid succession, leaving me with Alec Bridget.
00:00:53
Speaker
See, what I did was I didn't come out. Yeah, yeah. So I didn't punch me. How's it going tonight, Al? Good. It has to go with you.
Hog and Road Wild Series Discussion
00:01:00
Speaker
It's going good. You done lugging all the unconscious referees outside to the yard yet? Uh, Dellinger can take care of that for me. All right.
00:01:08
Speaker
Well, we have finished our fifth series, Hog and or Road Wild. It was definitely an interesting, unique series with a very different and exciting atmosphere, at least for the first year. For me, at least I got a little monotonous as the series went on. It gets a bit samey, yeah. But tonight, we're going to take a look back over the Hog and Road Wilds, play some guessing games, and hand out some awards. So I hope you'll have fun listening and play along with us.
00:01:39
Speaker
To start us off, let's cover some statistics on the overall shows in the series. Okay. The hog slash road wild series ran from 1996 to 1999, covering a total of four shows under two different names. So Al, what do you think the top road wild or hog wild in terms of pay-per-view buys was? Hmm. I feel like just because how business going, it's got to be 98.
00:02:08
Speaker
Okay. In second place was Road Wild 1999 with 200,000. Really? Still pretty strong considering a 1999 show, right? Right, yeah. And in first is Road Wild 1998, you got it right, with 322,000. Gotcha.
00:02:27
Speaker
And of course in the bottom, we have a second from last is Road Wild 1997 with 180,000. And the lowest was Hulk Wild 1996, first show of the series with 155,000, which is still not actually bad for 96. You think maybe people didn't realize it was a wrestling show with that name? It's entirely possible. I guess it was one of those Hulk wrestling shows I heard about.
00:02:54
Speaker
In a first for us, the entire series took place at the same location, that being the Sturgis Motorcycle Rally in Sturgis, South Dakota. Yeah, true. That said, there was some variation in attendance.
Attendance Challenges
00:03:08
Speaker
So Al, what do you think was the best attended show? I feel like it's probably, I don't go to 97, I guess.
00:03:17
Speaker
Okay, you are close. Okay. 97 is in second place with 6,500 people recorded in attendance. Yeah, okay. And 98 again is in first place with 8,500 in attendance. Gotcha. And the bottom two we have second from last is Road Wild 1999 with 5,500 and in last place is Hog Wild 1996 again with 5,000.
00:03:42
Speaker
Again, it's the first time you don't have something to build off of. Yeah. Yeah. It's it's fair to expect a first show of the series to kind of not do as well necessarily in that case.
Themes and Settings Discussion
00:03:52
Speaker
Right. And as we, I believe, noted on the series, I'm not entirely sure how they got these counts since they weren't issuing tickets and charging people for this one anyway. But well, they had copious amount of helicopter shots to gauge. This is true. This is true. See, that's why they did it for you.
00:04:08
Speaker
It's also kind of interesting that the shows switched dance partners after the pay-per-view numbers there. They're paired differently. The shows had similar match counts. Hogwild 1996 had eight matches and all three road wilds had nine. So for once we got a series that was reasonable in match count, if not match quality, all series long.
00:04:33
Speaker
So the stats out of the way, let's have a talk about the overall series. We'd like to kind of look back at the end of a series and take a look back over what are some repeated themes or elements that we can call the show's identity. So was there anything you kind of identified on that front, Al?
00:04:50
Speaker
Yeah, I've got a few. Most obvious, of course, is the whole biker aspect. You have the bikes, you've got the bikers. They really try to build throughout the shows. The crowd interaction, you know, heels will yell at the bikers so they'll rev at them, faces will do the rubbing motion.
00:05:07
Speaker
So that's an obvious theme there. Plus the visual you have, obviously, especially with the early shows, before they started adding extra seating for non bikers. Right. You have this, yeah, the sea of bikers. Oh, the sea of heads, they say. Yes. Sea of heads. Yeah. Dusty sea of heads. Yes.
00:05:24
Speaker
That's the biggest one, obviously, because that's supposed to be the appeal of this show, is you're seeing this thing that you don't normally see.
NWO Storyline Analysis
00:05:31
Speaker
Normally, it's guys holding up signs and wearing their awesome 316 shirts, which the people will, I'm sure, love cutting away from on camera, but we're definitely wearing this time period for sure. Yes.
00:05:42
Speaker
Second theme I have is, of course, outdoor wrestling. Even this day in 2022, we don't really see a lot of that. I think the main reason is you can't really control the weather as we at Florida recently learned quite evidently. Yes, yes. Weather is very controllable. I remember one year with WrestleMania, they were in a place with an open dome. It was an attractable dome.
00:06:02
Speaker
And this question of like, can they keep the dome open or will something start raining on them? And even so, even that's not a fully outdoor show, it's just a hole they can close or open. And this is real drama of whether they can do it or not. So imagine doing four shows in a row in this big open area where they really can't cover it at all. And yeah, they amazingly had good weather every year, which is kind of surprising. I mean, you figure, you know, at least probability would be against that happening. Yeah, you would think one of them would have to be stopped for rain. I mean, baseball games have that problem all the time. Yeah.
00:06:32
Speaker
Yeah, because I would imagine if it starts raining into an outdoor wrestling show, that'd be a very, very dangerous thing.
00:06:38
Speaker
Yeah, there's a famous case in the, I want to say early eighties, maybe mid eighties, where they do a warehouse show in Puerto Rico. This is like in the rock and rustling phase. It's a torrential rainstorm. Oh, geez. So they try to keep the show going as long as possible. Poor girl monsoon is the ring announcer and sole commentator for the whole show. It's a visual of him with a tarp just laid over his head, setting a chair to call the show. Oh, poor guy.
00:07:05
Speaker
And you see people like slipping and sliding in the ring.
00:07:11
Speaker
Third thing they have is the rise and fall of the NWO. Obviously coming off of the intro to this show, we, as we covered, we had the big attack on Nitro angle with them. 96's show is sort of their full rise to power. How good winning the title is supposed to be the big thing that changes everything. And even though there's no title in the line, the importance of the Sting Luger versus the outside match is their place as well.
00:07:37
Speaker
As you go throughout the show, in 97, you see how strong they are. Even losing going into it, Lugo win the title. It's about them getting the power back and sort of holding the power they can, like winning via Deque to keep the tag tiles and such.
00:07:52
Speaker
98, there's still a factor, but it's definitely less because the fact that they're pretty much all thrown into one match, right? Yeah. And a big ball and all fed to Goldberg essentially. You only look at the same group that was taken out 20 people backstage in Orlando. Right, right. Yeah. There's a drastically different feel at that point. You can tell it's a decline.
00:08:14
Speaker
And it's really summed up in 99 show because you have two of the three big faces of the group going into this fighting over each other. Whoever loses is forced to retire giant air quotes, obviously. Yeah, I would argue that if anything can be counted as the true end of the original NWO angle, it might actually be that show because that is the point where they are killing it so dead that one of the members of the group is kicking the other founding member of the group out of the company. Yes, exactly.
00:08:43
Speaker
We've been thinking like, where is the final end of the original NWO? That's probably it. Yeah. Because they lose Hogan both in the fact that he turns face. Yeah. And also the fact that the feud is even over their history together. They try to build up in the last minute about how Nash wanted to be the top person the whole time and then Hogan was. And correct me if I'm wrong, but like even in the video package leading up to that match,
Character Evolutions
00:09:08
Speaker
they are still wearing that combination in the UO shirt? Correct. So, like, that's clearly still going on up until Road Wild 1990. It's about, yeah, it's the nitro before Road Wild where they have Hogan physically come out to the rescue wearing his red and yellow first. Yeah. Which physically something they really should have saved for the show itself, by the way. It's another case of how they put the importance on nitro and thunder. Yeah, yeah. And less on paper reviews when people are paying you to watch.
00:09:35
Speaker
Yeah, because you could tease like he's got will he come out? Which which version will you see? Well, you've already seen that version come out. So we see him again. We know. Yeah, we know it's going to be that. Yeah, exactly. It is kind of funny to think about, though, that yes, we just said that's probably the official end of the original end of your angle. And it's like, what, four months before they just create a new version of the end up again? Correct. And that goes nowhere. But yeah, exactly. I was like, oh, my gosh.
00:10:02
Speaker
I do want to know, by the way, I have that one on there with the exact same title. The Rise and Fall of the NWO is right on mine as well. I will say on mine due to words autocorrect. I have the Rise and Fall of the now. Because I'm insisted upon writing it the way it's written on the shirts, which is the little and big W. And it always thinks I mean now.
00:10:25
Speaker
That's great. It even changes the first end to capitalize like, oh, come on, leave me alone. It's not a spelling name. I can't correct that. It just does that every time. A little pee pee on the curtain there for you.
00:10:38
Speaker
Speaking of Rise and Falls, I have my fourth theme, the Rise and Fall of Sting's Importance. Okay. With 96, again, we're just starting the individual angle. We have Sting and Lugaresse who are the gatekeepers alongside the giant, trying to keep them from getting power and getting a foothold. And the fact that they can't win due to ridiculous chicanery, as we see on the show, is a big thing. And it leads into the next show where, of course, the whole thing with the fake Sting and him leaving and sitting with Crow Sting. Right.
00:11:07
Speaker
Then we have the peak in ninety-seven where even though he's not even on the show, his seeming presence is a big deal. Right, yeah, they use the legend of Sting. Yeah, the legend of Sting, yeah. So even when we have a fake Sting coming out, that's the peak. And weirdly, the peak again, he's not on the show, but his legend is there. Yeah.
00:11:26
Speaker
Which I guess is an indicator of just how important you are at that point. True. If you're so important that the show main event effectively revolves around you, even though you're not there, that's
Biker Theme Utilization
00:11:36
Speaker
true. That's a pretty darn important person. Yeah. Like we have a slamboree where Hogan's not on the show. Or my thing. Spring Stampede, I think it is. Yeah. Yeah.
00:11:45
Speaker
Yeah, it's because of the way we watch them. We watch. And they're both ass shows. And yeah, there's a lot of things carry over. But no, is that show, obviously, you covered before, has the fatal four way match with the infamous Booker T promo and buildup. Yes. Always worth remembering. Where it's all about someone is going to fight Hogan eventually. Hogan not even on the show officially. Right.
00:12:06
Speaker
And that's how important he is. Someone will fight him eventually, so that's the story. Right, yeah, definitely. Okay, so we're going for the sting. So he's peaked in 97.
00:12:15
Speaker
A year after that, not only as the whole thing, we supposedly have a quest Hogan. Ha ha. That really stuck thing happened, but he's joined the end of your wolf pack and he's just part of this giant ball of humanity in the same main event match. Yeah. Nash and Luger and everything else. I believe we talked about it during the match that it's like he basically vanishes in that match. Yeah. And you're like, when's the last time you were able to say that about Sting that you don't even notice him?
00:12:43
Speaker
Yes. And 99, while he is important, obviously he's given a high profile slot of the show storyline wise, he's basically just there to fight Sid Vicious and build up the vicious for magic and Goldberg. Yeah, the focus is clearly on the vicious versus Goldberg buildup. Yeah. You know, Sting is a notable person for him to beat on the way to that. Sting is not the focus of this. Sid Vicious is the focus of this. Yeah.
00:13:07
Speaker
And oddly, the guy that stinged it always were trying to get out of the company because he was corrupting everything is the conquering hero at the end of the same show. It's not even important. Oh, I don't take this one from you, but that one I have is, of course, the transition from air quote face Hogan on 96 show where the biker crowd is not informed that Hogan is a bad guy now or just doesn't care. Either went possible, honestly. Yeah, yeah.
00:13:35
Speaker
And going through the show, he's definitely a bad guy in 97. He's definitely a bad guy in 98. But then I said abruptly, he's now a good guy and resorted to his look back in 94 when he first came into the company. Right. Which is what he was on the poster for 96, but didn't show up on the show at 96 in that outfit. Yeah, it'd be great if the 99 poster had have been heel Hogan on there. Just a really that would be awesome. Yeah, just do full circle. Exactly. Yeah, that'd be great.
00:14:00
Speaker
I believe you proposed for the 96 show that what they should have done was when the show got close have the poster that showed normal Hogan just like spray painted over with the NWO logo. Yeah, but they should and then as do the 99
Minor Themes and Elements
00:14:14
Speaker
show have a poster that had heel Hogan Hollywood Hogan on there and spray paint over it with WCW. Yeah, exactly. Just like switch up the whole thing. That'd be good. Yeah.
00:14:25
Speaker
I think that's some pretty good coverage of themes. You found a few that went across the whole series, which that was something I honestly kind of struggled with on it. There's a lot of minor themes throughout the series that connect one or two shows, but it takes a little more effort to find a unified theme. I think it was not easy.
00:14:41
Speaker
As you pointed out, one of the obvious unified ones is the show design, the biker concept. Though, as we discussed in the individual show discussions, it's astonishing how little that actually gets used in the show content. We get precisely one match with an actual motorcycle theme in the entire series. That's Medusa versus Bolnacano. Correct.
00:15:01
Speaker
And then the Steiner's come in on motorcycles for one match, and they give away a motorcycle on the 99 show. But other than that, it's really just the crowd, the engine revving, the set, whatever that weird horn noise was that came up all the time. Sounds like a vuvuzela, but I don't think this.
00:15:17
Speaker
And some shots of the motorcycle rally or maybe a road trip video. And even that they only do for like the first couple. Yeah. You got a lengthy one. Ninety six is like another very, very brief one. Ninety seven. Yeah. Oh, and of course the accursed shaky helicopter footage, which I will never forget. And in fact, on the bike theme, as you probably mentioned before, it takes till 98 show where they get the nice road map to the ring and no one drives a bike down.
00:15:42
Speaker
Yeah, they finally get the set right on the second to last show. Yeah. Yeah, so it's enough to give the series a unique identity or an atmosphere, but it still feels really underused. Right. As far as thematic link in terms of the show's stories, one thing I really found myself coming back to was the idea of crushed hopes. To clarify, not my hopes of getting good matches, though the latter shows certainly did crush those more than once. For sure, yes.
00:16:09
Speaker
No, what I mean is, as a story point that features very strongly in the first two shows, on both 96 and 97, a very strong WCW has a chance to take down the NWO. On 96, it's to stop it before it even really acquires any power. And on 97, it's to wipe it out after having achieved a notable victory against it the week before and shaken the hold that it had on the wrestling world. Yeah.
00:16:32
Speaker
In 96, as you point out, they've got the massive power of the giant on their side and, of course, Sting and Luger, who could never lose to the NWO upstarts. But the NWO comes out on top and even defaces the big gold belt.
Repetitive Feel of Series
00:16:44
Speaker
And on 97, WCW finally has the NWO on the back foot after a year of suffering indignity after indignity.
00:16:52
Speaker
They finally reclaimed the world title, cleaned it up and can take down the NWO once and for all. And it all comes crashing down when the NWO retain the tag belts and reclaim the world title and deface it once again. Yeah. So on both shows, we have WCW at a high point and the NWO either just starting out or very weakened. And yet WCW falls in the NWO ascends. True. Yeah.
00:17:14
Speaker
It's a bit more of a stretch to apply that theme to the rest of the series, though there are certainly some matches or segments that apply. More than just the generic, this guy wanted to win a match that didn't that applies to basically every match ever.
00:17:27
Speaker
The NWO Invitational Battle Royale is set up to determine which NWO member is the best and ends with none of them as Goldberg chucks out almost the entire group himself. Yes. Rick Steiner's dream of getting revenge on his brother and ours of seeing Steiner versus Steiner is cruelly ripped away when the match is called on account of faked but somehow still verified injury. It's very revealing, yes.
00:17:50
Speaker
But beyond that, it's a bit of a stretch, so I don't think we can call that a theme that stretches easily across all of the shows, but it's definitely at least a repeated theme for part of the series.
00:17:58
Speaker
You pointed out quite excellently my second theme, which is the Rise and Fall of the NWO. I think you covered that one quite well. Really interesting that we basically get something very close to their beginning and pretty much the best thing that you could call their ending on the same series. That's true, yeah. I think of that before we started watching the shows, but yeah, that's true. Yeah.
00:18:22
Speaker
Another theme that I think kind of came across fairly frequently was the theme of sacrifice. We get multiple stories on the series of people either putting things on the line beyond what would normally be necessary for a match, or otherwise putting themselves at greater risk than the norm. So for instance, we have the battle of the bikes in 1996, where the competitors motorcycles are offered up for destruction. We have Hogan versus Nash on 99, where it's career versus career, right?
00:18:48
Speaker
ice train versus Scott Norton and Mysterio versus Conan in both of those. The face risks severe injury by competing already hurt in an effort to get revenge on the heel.
00:18:59
Speaker
You could argue it's also the theme of Goldberg versus Rick Steiner with the knee brace theme. Yeah. It's subverted somewhat by Savage versus Rodman, which is about Savage's unwillingness to sacrifice or risk gorgeous George, even in pictorial form. And then again, Savage and Rodman's combined willingness to sacrifice several referees for victory. And maybe Leno kind of sort of has the tonight show on the line or something like that. That was an actual thing going on. At the very least, Bischoff seems to think it's on the line.
00:19:29
Speaker
Sure. One last minor theme that shows up. The power of experience. Repeatedly on the series, the younger wrestler gets a shot against a veteran performer, puts up a good fight, at least in story, but goes down.
00:19:44
Speaker
We see that with Ice Train versus Scott Norton, Eddie Guerrero versus Ric Flair, Six versus Ric Flair, Giant versus Hogan, Rodman versus Savage, and to some extent even with Paige versus Henig or the Deadpool versus Kidman, Mysterio and Guerrero, the ICP being the rookies in that case. Each of those is somewhat of a showcase match for either a rookie or at least a performer trying to rise to the top where they get to do well against the veteran fighter, but ultimately do go down.
00:20:11
Speaker
Mm hmm. There's also a clear generational contest, if not outright rookie involvement with Nash versus Hogan, where, again, the more veteran wrestler wins the day. Right. You could also probably slip in the Buff Bagwell match with Doris Miller as well. That's true. Yeah. Yeah. They don't sell Buff Bagwell as a veteran performer, but he's been there for like close to a decade at that point. In fact, we're less than a year from him being called, quote, a new blood of company. Yes, which is still very strange.
00:20:41
Speaker
The only story that surprisingly subverts that is 97, you get giant versus savage. I was going to say the same thing. Yeah. Yep. Yeah. Actually a few counter arguments. We get giant versus savage that you pointed out where giant decimates him.
00:20:57
Speaker
Yeah. And then we also get Goldberg versus most of both N.W.O. factions. That one also features a relative rookie in the form of Goldberg. Yeah. Decimating several veteran performers. And among the N.W.O. factions, we got Kurt Hennig in there. We got Sting Lugers in there. Yeah. Conan's quite experienced as well. Scott Hall, Kevin Nash. Yeah. Yeah. So I think the only guy in there that I can think of off the top of my head that has similar experience level to Goldberg is Giant. True. Yeah.
00:21:27
Speaker
And of course, there is Leno's match, where his inexperience in the ring is certainly built up as a major part of the storyline, and he ends up getting the pinfall, though that does feel less due to his own efforts and more due to those of his band leader, so it's not quite the same.
Series Statistics and Insights
00:21:45
Speaker
Yeah, I had some real trouble on this one finding a unifying theme, really. That was an interesting exercise beyond, of course, the obvious biker show feel that they do go for him, but don't really utilize. I think, though, we both identified some smaller themes that definitely come up a lot over the course of the series. And you can certainly draw some thematic links across shows in significant ways, sometimes even across every show.
00:22:09
Speaker
So I feel like this is one where there might not be one big theme like we've been able to identify in some earlier series, but there's certainly a lot of smaller thematic links to detect. I can see that, yeah. Do you have any other thoughts you want to bring up on just the overall series as a whole with our themes or just your thoughts on how it went?
00:22:28
Speaker
Just again, just reiterate, it's kind of weird how little the bike stuff really matters for the biker show. You really think they would have, especially after the first show, they would have leaned into that and really done more biker stuff knowing it before this crowd. The most you really get is like brief bits where like heel Chris Jericho talks about a Japanese bike to get sort of get heat. Yeah. Yeah. Like that. Or really just that's the only way that works is they, they reference Japanese motorcycles just to make Harley guys mad.
00:22:57
Speaker
Which bizarrely then, Tony just like references offhand the next year without it being intended to be a insult or anything. Yes. That he's like, they came here on their Hondas and you're like, did Tony just turn heel? Yes. But no one reacts to it, so okay.
00:23:14
Speaker
Yeah, it's an interesting series, I think, overall. It definitely, as I said in the intro, it has a very unique feel to it, but because there's four shows that all use that feel, it starts to grate on you a little bit. And I think you and I had a discussion off tape that we need to start learning to save these from the air, where you were saying you wondered,
00:23:40
Speaker
If the fact that we watch this series just straight through only this series rather than having an actual right series of shows between each one of them strengthen that effect. Sure. You know, and I think I would agree. I don't think I would have felt it as strongly as a repetitive series if it weren't for the fact that we were watching.
00:24:01
Speaker
It's straight through, right? We actually watched, you know, a year's worth of shows between each one of them. I'd be like, Oh, hey, it's time for us to come back to the kind of the outdoor show atmosphere, right? It's kind of like if you're when you're a kid, and also if you can do in summer, like go to Disney or go to places you go for parks or events you would go to, you can go between June and August.
00:24:23
Speaker
And because you only go to that time period, your mind goes, Ooh, I can't wait till this date so I can do this. Right. But realistically, like if you were like independently wealthy at like 16 for some reason, and you could just do whatever you wanted and you went to Disney, like once a week, you'd be like, I've already done everything here already, like four times. Yeah. And you stop going for a while. Yeah, things will get dull after a while. You kind of you've seen it. Right. Yeah. Yeah, definitely. I can see your point on that.
00:24:51
Speaker
I think definitely an interesting series to do overall, right? Yeah, absolutely, yeah.
00:24:58
Speaker
All right. Well, we had a look at the stats for the wild series, but now let's take a look at some interesting data that I've gathered on the performers who appeared on the shows. So you're ready to test your memory out? Never. Never ready. There's a reason I asked the questions because I would not remember this stuff either. All right. So first up, who appeared as a competitor in the most matches? Any guesses?
00:25:28
Speaker
Hmm. So I mean, yeah, certain people that were on every show, like Hogan obviously is the most obvious one. He made events every show in the series. That's because it will go over a bit. It's hard to him to think of the big names. Sting doesn't wrestle in 97. He's covered. He's not even on 97 officially.
00:25:47
Speaker
If Luger and all four, actually no, we don't have Luger on non, do we have Luger on 99 show? He is not in a match on 99. I didn't think so. Yeah. I was like, wait a second. I said that. I realized Luger is not on all four shows. He's on the first three. So he's filling in for staying and then gone when staying is back. Right. It's like a trade off situation. You want me to tell you how many people there are? Sure. Okay. There are four people in first place. There's four people with four matches each. Okay.
00:26:15
Speaker
and Hogan, you're right, is one of them. Yeah, Hogan's definitely on there. Nash is on all four shows. If Hall's on all four. No, Hall's not involved in the last show. Yeah, so he's not in it. Oh, well, I know one who is nothing on all four is Ray Mysterio. Yep, you got three of them. Okay. Got a guess for the fourth.
00:26:35
Speaker
It's been one all four shows. He is not, but you got close. She got three of them. All right. So you're ready to hear it. Sure. So in third place, we have a 12 way tie of people with two matches each. We have buff Bagwell, Rick flair, Goldberg, Eddie Guerrero, Chris Jericho, Canyon, Conan, Mongo, Saturn, Randy Savage, Scott Steiner, and Alex, right. And to clarify this as a appearances as a match competitor, right?
00:27:04
Speaker
In second place, we have an 11-way tie with three matches each is Chris Benoit, Booker T, the Giant, Scott Hall, Kurt Henig, Lex Luger, Dean Malenko, Scott Flash Norton, DDP, Rick Steiner, and Sting. Okay. And in first place with a four-way tie with four matches each,
00:27:27
Speaker
Hulk Hogan, Rey Mysterio Jr., Kevin Nash, and Stevie Ray. Oh, that's true, yeah. Mm-hmm. That opening tag match is completely forgotten by me. Yep, yep. I talked about that when I was trying to pick best and worst of people in the show. Like, I forgot there's a second Buff Bagwell match, because it's just not that memorable. That's not a name you expect to hear with the others. I don't have a problem with Stevie Ray, but it's just I was looking at that and thinking, that is a shocker.
00:27:53
Speaker
Yeah, I say that doesn't make sense, I forget. And because he's involved in that weird sort of match with Chavo. That's the one that had slipped my mind, because I remember the ones where he's teaming with Booker. But then I'd forgotten, oh, right, he has a singles match on the show that Booker doesn't have one. Yeah, that's true. But that's matches overall. So you've already said this one. OK, yeah. The competitor in the most main events, your guess was? Halakogan. Right.
00:28:22
Speaker
So again, in this case, we're only counting actual main events, the final aired match of the show, not ones that the announcers randomly declare main events midway through the show. No, no kiss demon matches that are all main event. Yes. So in second place, we have a six way tie. A whole bunch of people had one main event. That would be Eric Bischoff, the giant.
00:28:48
Speaker
Lex Luger, Kevin Nash, Diamond Dallas Page, and Jay Leno? Yes. I believe you're legally required to say it that way. Yes. And in first place, with four main events, the only guy on the series to be in more than one main event and in every single main event on the series is Hollywood and non-Hollywood, Hulk Hogan. Yes.
00:29:12
Speaker
Well, to clarify, I think he's still Hollywood Hogan in 99. He's just Hollywood, Florida Hogan, not Hollywood, Los Angeles. A show isn't just about competitors, though. There are all sorts of other roles to fill. So next up, the commentary team. So the most matches called by commentator. What do you think?
00:29:39
Speaker
Oh, Shyvana is on all four shows for sure. I think this is thankfully one of the series where he is on all four. Sadly, we don't get very much Dusty because Dusty is the first show.
00:29:51
Speaker
Tenet, I believe Tenet is on. He's on two of the shows, right? I believe so, yeah. And Dusty is actually on two of them. Oh, yeah, you're right. Yeah, you're right. I forgot it's technically before that. It's 98 when he does bizarre. He has weird, ill-advised NWO turn. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. I still insist they should have had him on the commentary table anyway. Heal Dusty on commentary would have been awesome. That would have been, yeah. All right. You ready to hear it? Sure.
00:30:16
Speaker
In third place, with 17 matches called, the American Dream Dusty Rhodes. In second place, with 21 matches called, just a little bit ahead of Dusty, Iron Mike Tenet. Right. And in first place, it's a tie that never happens. Yeah, that's true. With 35 matches called, Bobby the Brain Hienan and Tony, no nickname, Shivani.
00:30:46
Speaker
It's a rare thing for Tony to be sharing first place on that one. Normally, there's at least some minor switch up in the announce crew that prevents someone from staying there for all of the shows. Yeah, but it's because this one doesn't go to 2000. Yes, that's why I realized is this this series goes to 99 and he didn't still there. So it sits perfectly in the heat and period. Thank where there's no Mark Madden. Thank goodness. Yes.
00:31:09
Speaker
So what about managers? This is one of your nemesis questions. I believe on this very much though. Yeah. Who managed people for the most matches? So remembering managers, I know we have Ted DiBiase, but you get for the one, really the one match for this big match. Sonny Ono pops up a bunch of times where he bookings the series because he's on 96. I can't remember. He does both 97 or 98, but he definitely obviously on 99 a bigger role with the.
00:31:39
Speaker
Ernest Miller there. Oh, obviously what I'm missing is, uh, Jimmy Hart, the mouse itself. Okay. About a few times. I don't know exact number on him though. All right. You have named a lot of people who are on this list. Okay. But you do not have number one. Okay. So in third place, we have a three-way tie with two matches each. Woman.
00:32:01
Speaker
Ah, right. Vincent. Yeah. And Jimmy Hart. Yeah. In second place with three matches is Sonny Ono. Mm-hmm. Good, reliable choice for frequent manager appearance after his Starrcade run. Absolutely, yeah. And in first place with four, Elizabeth. Oh, yeah. He is all over this series, actually. Next up, referees.
00:32:28
Speaker
So who refereed the most matches and note that I'm counting any referee appearance here. That means whether they're initial assigned ref, they come out to replace the ref or they come out to rectify a call. Well, right around the safest bet is almost always Nick Patrick. Okay. In third place, we have a tie with four each. We have Randy Anderson and Mark Curtis.
00:32:53
Speaker
In second place, another tie with six each is Mickey J and Scott Dickinson. And in first place, indeed, with eight appearances is Nick Patrick. Gotcha.
00:33:06
Speaker
Now, if you only count initial referee appearances, Nick Patrick, Scott Dickinson, Mickey J, and Johnny Boone, who was tied for fourth, all lose one replacement referee appearance, all from Rodman versus Savage. Yes, that is correct. That changes the top three, not at all, as every place was two apart from the last. Gotcha. And of course, we have one unusual name on the referee list this time as well, Dean Malenko. Ah, yes.
00:33:33
Speaker
We've talked a lot about the people with a ton of appearances, but what about the people with the fewest? So, there are 42 people who only show up for a single match in any capacity on Hogger Road Wild.
00:33:46
Speaker
Of the 42, three of them actually took home match of the night honors as competitors for this single appearance. We have Hooventook Herrera, Psychosis, and Altimo Dragon. Oh yeah. But some other interesting people on the list include Barry and Kendall Windham, Billy Kidman, Sid Vicious, Medusa, Bull Nikano, and of course, Jay Leno. Yeah.
00:34:11
Speaker
Last but not least, let's look at who's taken home the coveted Match of the Night and MVP awards. So first up for each host, who took home the most MVP awards? Once again, neither of us gave an MVP award to the same person twice. That's interesting how that worked out. So I want you to see how much of our list you can guess. So first up for yours, I'm going to give you six guesses to guess for right. Okay.
00:34:41
Speaker
How many of your four MVPs can you name in six guesses? Do you think DDP's got to be one? I must have given the- Is one thing? Yeah, okay. I definitely gave one to Ray. I'm pretty sure I did. You did not, so that's one wrong? Gotcha. I used to give one to Ray. I'm surprised. It's a good guess. Yeah, no, it's a pretty solid guess for me, honestly. I feel like Ben was up using a solid pick. He's another one, no? Gotcha. Hmm. Got to nail the rest of them. You got three to go and three guesses left.
00:35:11
Speaker
Geez no pressure Yeah, it's really think I remember my own stuff better. It's a lot of stuff that happens Yeah Normally, I'd say sting, but I don't think I ever change what a thing once I gave it to him Okay, I'll try to give it for 99 for him managing to try really hard against Sid Vicious Yeah, I figured I'd be forgiven women 99 maybe 96. Yeah, I couldn't refer if I did or not They have to savage at any point you did ah there we go I
00:35:39
Speaker
I believe for his selflessness on the giant match. That makes sense. So the one you are missing is from 1996. Of course, that'd be the least recent one. That's how that works out. Who would have given in 96? Man. Even a dragon maybe? I know he liked his match.
00:35:59
Speaker
No, someone who fights with a similar style, though, Eddie Guerrero. Oh, of course. You got three of them, though. That's good. Did a good run. More than I thought I'd get, yeah. You're ready to see if you, again, do better on guessing mine? Yeah, sure. All right, six guesses, four different people. D.P.? Yes, that's one. I think you picked Jericho, didn't you, one time? No, I definitely got close to, but I did not get that. Okay, I could have received Jericho for, I guess, he'll work.
00:36:26
Speaker
Did you do Malenko though? I did. Yes. Right. Okay. They're free thing. Do you ever give Luger one? I don't think we did. No, I did not. Okay. I don't think you give it to Benoit. Although he's definitely in the running. I did not. How many do I have? You've got one guest left and two names to go. Yeah, go ahead. Okay. All right. Well, you got two of them though. Okay. So I did do D Malenko and DDP. I also did Sting. Oh, right. And Scott Hall. Okay.
00:36:56
Speaker
So, based off of that, who do you think got the most MVPs overall? I will let you know there's two of them that got picked twice. Well Sting, I know Sting came up twice. He's one of them.
00:37:11
Speaker
Um, okay. I'm trying. Cause I didn't, cause I didn't give it to whole line point. Now that I don't like all it just never came up properly. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, you got one person, you can give it to each show. It's not like it's an insult if you don't get it. Oh, no, I gotcha. And never give it to Malenko. Got to go that way. And Lincoln, I better give him at some point, not in this series anyway.
00:37:29
Speaker
So is that one then? Okay, so in second place, with one choice each, we have Eddie Guerrero, Scott Hall, Dean Malenko, and Randy Savage. And in first place with two choices each, we have Sting and Diamond Dallas Page. That one choice is there, yeah. Yeah, two very dependable performers. All right, ready for match of the night participations. And we are looking only at competitors here. In this case, there is a clear winner for each of us.
00:37:59
Speaker
So who do you think competed in your match of the night choices the most, Al? Ray definitely pops up for sure with me. Yep. He is actually your winner with three awards from you. Nice. And who do you think was my winner, my match of the night winner most often? I want to say Sting.
00:38:18
Speaker
That is actually not the case. It is Chris Benoit with two choices from last time. Oh, right. Because I forgot the lengthy match he has on Benoit Malenko and that Benoit page on the last show. Right, right.
Cumulative Series Review
00:38:30
Speaker
That makes sense. Yeah. And finally, who do you think competed in the most matches of the night, assembling all of our votes together? The DDP? Because I picked him for sure a couple of times. No, he is on the list, but he's not in first.
00:38:46
Speaker
In third place, it's a tie with one vote from each of us for a total of two for each person here is Conan and Diamond Dallas Page. Oh, right. Cause the Conan Ray match. Yeah. Yeah. We both like that one, I believe. And then in second with one vote from you and two votes from me for a total of three is Chris Benoit. And in first with three votes from you and one vote from me for a total of four Ray Mysterio Jr. Oh, there you go.
00:39:14
Speaker
with the stats for the hog and road wild shows done. How about we take a look back at the overall stats again. So these stats cover every wrestling show that we have yet covered. So not including ready to rumble. Okay. Cause that is far from a wrestling show. Yeah. Appearances as a match competitor overall. Who do you think is in first place?
00:39:38
Speaker
Sting is even missing a match on this series as a good record overall for sure. Okay. He pops up early in Starrcade and that helps him a lot. Right. In third place with 30 appearances as a match competitor, we have Lex Luger.
00:39:55
Speaker
In second place with 34, we have Rick Flair. Okay. And in first place with 38 match competitor appearances so far, this is Sting. The standings there have not actually changed since last time. Oh, okay. But appearances as a match competitor in main events. What's your guess? I mean, again, Sting for the most part stuck to main event matches.
00:40:23
Speaker
Early issue of the Starrcade run, you know, him and Flair have that match and obviously him and not Flair until the end have a match the other show. Yeah. It's so weird thinking that Hogan is not in the running for this at this point. Just because of the way the series we've covered and what we've covered in the order in. Because he's like the face of the main event of WCW and he's not really in there yet. Yeah. Yeah. That is, that is interesting. Yeah. I'm going with Sting. You're going with Sting? Yeah. Okay. In third place, an aim that just came up actually.
00:40:53
Speaker
With nine main event appearances, because he added four in this series, Hulk Hogan. Yeah. So he just lunged up the ratings there. There you go. In second place with 13 main event appearances is Sting. Okay. And in first place with 18 main event appearances, still having a ton of them from his initial Starkade run that has made him thus far unbeatable, Rick Flair.
00:41:17
Speaker
right yeah because he had no main events in this series at all right which is surprising a number of ways but yeah uh hogan got as i noted four more main events in this series so he knocked vader out of third place oh vader is now tied for fourth with diamond dallas page with six of them each
00:41:35
Speaker
And also, thanks to us doing that one nitro from July 1996, Greg the Hammer Valentine is now on the list with one main event too. So good for him. So Greg is tied with Jay Leno? That is true. Commentators. Now, first place is probably obvious. Can you guess one, two, and three? I mean, Giovanni obviously is number one. Yes.
00:42:04
Speaker
I feel like number two's gotta be Heenan. Especially because this series is helping with being on all four. Because yeah, you really lose him on 2,000 shows. Thankfully, for a number of reasons, thankfully we haven't covered a lot of 2,000 shows yet. Then, I feel like, hmm. I know Tanae's moved a little bit, but I feel like maybe it's still Dusty as third. I'm not sure on that one.
00:42:30
Speaker
Uh, you got one and two correct. Okay. We'll go through this in order. Number three with 104 matches covered as commentator is Jim Ross. Oh, right. Yeah. He didn't get any new matches this series, but he has quite a number from earlier in WCW and we just happened to have covered a number of those shows. Gotcha.
00:42:49
Speaker
In second place with 172 matches covered so far, Bobby, the brain Hienan. Nice. And in first place with 271 matches covered, 99 more matches than Hienan. Unsurprisingly, Tony Schiavone. Right. Referees looking at all referee appearances. Again, whether they were the initial ref came out to correct a decision or came out as a replacement when one got knocked loopy. Who do you think's in the lead?
00:43:19
Speaker
I think it's still Nick Patrick. Okay. You have a guess for second place? Oh, um, hmm. I'm trying to think, I can't think of Billy Blank in the name of Nicky Jay, maybe. He's pretty solid in that.
00:43:33
Speaker
All right. You did get someone that's on the list, but not quite in second place yet. In third place is Mickey J. We had 27 appearances. He has now replaced Mike Atkins, who stayed at 24, though Atkins actually did drop to fifth place as Charles Robinson is now in fourth with 26.
00:43:56
Speaker
In second place, quite a bit higher actually than Mickey J with 62 appearances as a referee so far is Randy Anderson. Another reliable performer for the era that we happen to have covered so far. Yeah, it makes sense. In first place, still in the lead by quite a bit with 87 referee appearances is Nick Patrick. Gotcha. Better watch it though, Randy Anderson is coming up on him.
00:44:19
Speaker
The top three positions don't change if we use only initial referee appearances. Mickey J loses one replacement appearance to hit 26, but Robinson loses two of them to hit 24, matching Mike Atkins. Anderson loses one replacement and one rectifying appearance to hit 60, and Patrick loses four replacement ref appearances to hit 83. I will say one referee leads the stat of most matches they competed in, though.
00:44:46
Speaker
Because I think we only have the one. I believe so far we've only had Charles Robinson do that, right? Correct. Yeah. Now, Nick Patrick will join him on the list at some time. Yes, he will. I don't remember what series that's actually. I don't recall either. I would say it's overall, but I'm not sure. All right. MVP choices again, Al. So first up, we're going by host. So Al, for you, who have you chosen the most for MVP across all of the shows?
00:45:14
Speaker
I feel like Sting has got my top choice because even when shows got bad, I enjoy Sting for one reason or another. All right. You are correct. You have chosen Sting eight times. Oh, okay. Nice. And for me? I feel like it's got to be DDP or Flare. I'm trying to remember which one I think would be...
00:45:35
Speaker
Maybe lean slightly more towards GDP in that case. Okay. That's definitely a good choice, but I am actually joining you this time. I again have Sting with five choices. Okay. And for John, it was Dusty Rhodes with three. I'm not going to make you try and remember John's this time. Okay. So now for all of us together, John included. Okay. Who do you think got the most MVP awards?
00:46:01
Speaker
I feel like it's probably still Sting. I can't remember how John voted a lot for that, but he's obviously a big Sting fan. All right. In third place, with five awards from the group collectively, is Ricky the Dragon Steamboat. Right. He got his nice and early. Yeah. He tended to get agreement from us when he got it, so. Yeah. In second place, it's a tie with eight awards each.
00:46:27
Speaker
Ric Flair and Diamond Dallas Page. And in first place, this is Sting. 15 MVP awards put him far out in front. And finally, let's look at Match of the Night competitors. So again, we're gonna go by host first. So Al, who do you think you have picked the most often for Match of the Night? Hmm.
00:46:55
Speaker
I think I end up being more DDP with that than for MVP, for whatever reason. I think that's really more obviously do a little joy, a lot of sting matches, obviously. But I feel like as far as like the matches for showing, like I picked DDP more than Sting in that case. All right. You would be incorrect. Oh, OK. You you still love Sting. I do. A faithful friend. You're a faithful little stinger. Sting got nine match of the night awards from you. OK.
00:47:25
Speaker
For me? It's gonna be really boring if it stings every time, isn't it? I know you're doing a lot of, I don't know if Blinco ends up in there, but I know Blinco gets picked a lot and he's around a lot of the good matches with you. Then again, it might actually be Flair for that, so I'm not sure. Okay. It is a tie. Oh, okay. With eight awards each, we have Rick Flair and Diamond Dallas Page. Gotcha.
00:47:51
Speaker
And for Jon, if you'll recall, it was the Road Warriors, Hawken Animal, who collectively got four. Yes, I didn't remember that. Now, for all of us together, who do you think is in the lead for Match of the Night? So we are focusing on that. I feel like Flair's got a real headway on that, because early on or so, especially through Starrcade, he gets a lot of that.
00:48:12
Speaker
Okay. Going for flair. Yeah. All right. In third place, we have some movement from last time. Replacing Ricky the Dragon Steamboat is Diamond Dallas Page with 13. In second place is Rick Flair with 15. Okay. And in first place, it was very close with 18 is Sting. Okay.
00:48:36
Speaker
Ready to do a Tully Blanchard check? Sure, what number is he getting now? Let me ask you, what place do you think he is at now? Typically, you would think he's very low, but I feel like he's going to be higher than I think. Is he top 10 still? He is still in the top 10. I'm going to go with eighth place. You are close. Oh, pretty good. In fourth place, we have a tie.
00:49:04
Speaker
With 12 each is Chris Benoit and Ricky the Dragon Steamboat. In fifth place with 10 is Vader. In sixth place we have another tie. With nine each, Aron Anderson and Ray Mysterio Jr. And in seventh place we have a tie with eight each, Lex Luger and Tully Blanchard.
00:49:26
Speaker
There you go. He is hanging in there, especially considering how long it's been since he even had a match on the show. Yeah, we haven't had a Tully Blanchard match since, what, Slampery 95, I think? Yeah, I believe so. I think it was Slampery 95. We had one match on that series. Yeah. But he has had all of his match of the nights are still from our Starrcade run. Yeah. That's an amazing longevity there.
00:49:48
Speaker
Yeah, whenever we get around to doing like great American bashes and shows that take place more than area era, will he jump back? It'll be interesting to see if he can get back like in the top five or something at that point. I doubt he'll ever come back up to first place again. Right. Because he just doesn't have enough shows at this point. But he has a real chance to hang out in the top 10 for a while yet. That is definitely still shocking to me to see how high up on the list he still is.
00:50:13
Speaker
If you ever covered that one ECW show, where it's him and Arne as the team grizzled dads, I believe you called them. That might help his dad. So I don't know if we're going to do that show.
00:50:26
Speaker
With all the data out of the way, it is time to give some series awards. So each show we have awarded our Match of the Night and MVP, but now we're going to look at things across the entire series. So to start off, we'll go for our series MVPs. There's three people in no particular order. Who are your series MVPs, Al? Okay, so...
00:50:50
Speaker
First off, I have a reliable hand and a guest's feet in this case. I'm going to cross all four shows. And the thing is, with this series especially, there's not a lot of promo content, as I'm sure we'll cover a little bit later. So it's really a show for the worker, I think, because there's not someone living some dazzling promo that might supersede and make someone else stand out and not do it. So first off, I have Ray Mysterio Jr. OK, yep, very good choice.
00:51:19
Speaker
because obviously I liked him on a bunch of shows, 97, 98, especially. He was still enjoyable in 99, I thought. That'll match what's a little interesting, but I thought he was a good part of that. He really bumped well for ICP, I think I said at the time. He wanted to make them look good, which is great to him. Plus it was adorable dressing up as Big Bro Kidman. Yes, exactly.
00:51:39
Speaker
No, I agree with you. I agree with you. Jokes aside, Ray Mysterio is an amazing performer. Right. And very consistent. Right. It's funny because we cover so much, even in a four-show span, forget that we have a Ray Mysterio Ultimo Dragon match on the first show, which is also really good. Oh, yeah. Yeah. It's same as lacking story, which again is an issue throughout the series because promo content. But yeah, that's one.
00:52:04
Speaker
Again, going quality, especially longevity of his actual matches. I go with Chris Benoit. Okay. He's a solid hand throughout the shows. 96, 97, you have him doing really well. And 99 has a nice comeback where he has the big match with DDP, where DDP is in this position to put him really over. Perhaps two over, as I think I argued at the time. I was kicking out of all this stuff at a little super scene with Benoit there, but.
00:52:31
Speaker
And I obviously saw a reliable hand here, and I think because one person that would normally be here is either in a match or two that's not good or is underwhelming, and of course misses some time, makes room for DDP, who gets a solid hand throughout all the shows.
00:52:50
Speaker
The fact that he makes his part specially of a tag match evolving, Jay Leno? Yes. And Hogan, for that matter, for me, we're great wise, says something about him. And again, 990 pushed Ben Waverly well. So yeah. Out of curiosity, who's your person that you were saying would be on there normally? Sting. Oh, OK. Makes sense. I guess Sting is absent in 97 and 98 is eh. And well, obviously I enjoyed his apparent 99 better than you did or the match as a whole better than you did.
00:53:20
Speaker
It's not enough to bump up GPs more solid in this. Okay. For mine, I have Dean Malenko. Right. Dino Machino is, as always, a reliable performer. And in this case, he actually shows up on every single show three times as a match competitor and once as a guest referee. Is he Dino Refereo on that show? He should have been, but Jericho was not thinking and did not dub him that, so I can't.
00:53:46
Speaker
Every time he shows up, no matter how long or short his time is on the show, he provides a quality performance and he only benefits the show. I have never, to my recollection, seen a match where I said, Dean Malenko dragged that down at all. No.
00:54:00
Speaker
My second one, Diamond Dallas Page. He appears on three of the four shows, 1997 through 1999, and is another reliably good performer for WCW who can be counted on to do his absolute best with the hand he's dealt. Even if that hand is, hey Page, can you walk Jay Leno of all people through putting on a wrestling match? Yeah.
00:54:20
Speaker
He did a lot, as you said, to rescue that match from being an absolute disaster. And his other two matches are quite good. Plus his big personality, especially his evident joy at playing a smug heel in 1999. Always leave an impression. Yeah. And my third one, a little bit unusual here, but I'm going to go with the crowd. Okay.
00:54:44
Speaker
Definitely one of the most interesting things about this series is the audience. With a crowd composed in large part of bikers attending the show on their motorcycles, the Wild Series was like no other series that we have yet watched. They're enthusiastic and involved, and the revving engines provide a totally different sound and feel to the shows. So they were absolutely critical to giving the series its identity, and that's why they're on this list. I can see that, yeah.
00:55:11
Speaker
Yeah, it's one thing that if they had done a 2000 show and say maybe taking it away from Sturgis, like they still call Road Wild, but just put an arena. I don't know if it would be the same. It would feel completely different. Yeah, I think that's such an important part of the show for sure that I can't picture the series without that. Yeah. Now you could use them as like the AWA did on the re-pilot, just put them digitally on the side. That would be the same. Oh my gosh.
00:55:40
Speaker
So next up, matches of the series. So again, we have three matches in no particular order. You don't have to say for a second or last, because that's down near impossible to do. Okay. Please do name the shows they were on as well. Okay. I've got Ray Mysterio versus Conan from the 1997 show. Okay. It's a match. The first time I watched, I didn't like it as much. On a longer watch and rewatch, I really enjoy the nuance of it. The fact that Ray Mans just do a pretty good job of
00:56:09
Speaker
trying to wrestle his normal style and adapt, doing something like doing Larry. We talked about in there what he doesn't do and really selling the leg and selling the sort of fighting spirit aspect of that was a good one and showing his range as well. He does one of the best jobs of selling that I have ever seen genuinely in that match. It's just an amazing performance by him.
00:56:30
Speaker
And again, it stands out an interesting way versus seeing him in Dragon on 96, which it does not insult, but is a normal regular stereo match. 98 is the same way with him in Psychosis and 99 the next tag match. So seeing one with him being really good and also feeling different is a nice touch for that. You appreciate the uniqueness of it. Exactly. Yeah. Second, I have Sting and Luger versus the outsider from 96's show. Okay.
00:56:54
Speaker
That one I thought did a really good job of that strong face and peril, like fighting underneath thing. Edith Sting is a little dumb for selling with that match. I made it stink. Yeah. He does the walk to the wrong quarter spot twice, you know, that kind of stuff. But as a whole, I thought that in contrast to the 97 tag match with the outside versus the Steiners. I thought the balance was slightly better than 96. Okay.
00:57:17
Speaker
As good as that match with the Starters is, it's so lopsided against them for so much of the match. And then the ending of Horus is a whole other thing entirely. It doesn't help. Both of them suffer a little bit from an awkward ending, but in 96, it's more execution of it. The idea, I think, is pretty much fine. In 97, the idea is a little like, what? Yeah, exactly. That drags it down a little bit more in 97, yeah. For sure.
00:57:42
Speaker
And lastly, I have a really good match on a bad show, which is DDP versus Chris Benoit from 99 World Wild.
00:57:49
Speaker
It's definitely the saving grace of that show. If they could have put that on Temple 98 shows somehow, that would have made, would really help distinguish the quality level between 98 and 99. It would have taken the one good thing away from 99 and given 98, which definitely needed more of that. It really speaks to the show that I can pick a match on, no spoiler here, the worst show of the series for me, and put it on my series best show, matches.
00:58:16
Speaker
Yeah, that was a really, really well done match. I mean, definite credit to both guys on that. And I remember thinking they did such a nice evolution of some spots there, especially like Benoit's rolling Germans. I will be very fondly remembering the spot where they turned that into repeated pinfalls. Yes. That was excellently done.
00:58:36
Speaker
I will say all of yours that you've named were in contention for mine, but I have actually chosen three different matches. So I'm kind of surprised on that one. But yeah, definitely all of yours really good choices. Thank you.
00:58:49
Speaker
For mine, Hogwild 1996, Ultimo Dragon versus Rey Mysterio. Really good match, yeah. I agree with you that this one's more of a standard Rey Mysterio match than the Mysterio versus Conan one, and it was a narrow decision for me to hold this one up, but I just think it is an exceptional, fast-paced opening match. Lots of variety, some incredible acrobatics, good strong storytelling, with Dragon moving from confidence to overconfidence, getting himself in trouble by underestimating Mysterio repeatedly.
00:59:19
Speaker
Mysterio and Dragon worked really, really well together, providing an exciting show to kick the series off right. Agreed, yeah. My second one, Hogwild 1996, Malenko versus Benoit. Right.
00:59:34
Speaker
Holy crap, what an epic this one was. For over 25 minutes, Benoit and Moleko put on a showcase of intricate holds and counters, constantly adding new elements to their match and never letting it get stale. Their execution of every move was perfect, even towards the end of a lengthy, lengthy match.
00:59:54
Speaker
That's always impressive, but even more so considering this was an outdoor show, as we've discussed, while the sun's still up, which could not have made it easy or pleasant. No. Even Nick Patrick, referring this match, seemed very tired by the end of this one. But Benoit and Milenko came out of this looking really strong and really capable. Yeah, I agree. And Road Wild 1998.
01:00:17
Speaker
who've been to Guerrero versus Chris Jericho with Dean Malenko as guest referee. Gotcha. This one is on here just for being plain fun. Jericho and Guerrero put on a great in-ring performance with some great acrobatics and holds and some tremendous character work by Jericho. But then you add in Dean Malenko doing a really good job as a guest referee and adding to the match's story rather than distracting from it, in my opinion. And you've got a real winner.
01:00:43
Speaker
Jericho and Milenko interacted amazingly well in this, interacting just often enough to make it feel different, but without actually slowing the match down or putting attention off of the action. Yeah, you never forget that it's Milenko as the guest ref. He never blends into the background on that. But same time, you're not distracted by his presence when you're not supposed to be. It's a case where I think Dean Milenko's
01:01:09
Speaker
I'm trying to think of a better of a nicer way to sound to say this than lack of a personality, but lack of a personality. Dean Malico's lack of a personality actually really benefits this because he's not the sort of guy that's going to do big boisterous gestures and call attention to himself for stuff. He's very business like he just goes in there. He's like, oh, you need me to breath a match. I'm going to rough a match. And he really does. He serves excellently as a referee. Yeah, he comes off just as a normal referee who is a little bit tougher than normal rather than, you know, guy who's in there trying to make the show about him.
01:01:38
Speaker
It's one of the best guest referee performances that I've ever seen and that's where I felt like I needed to note it.
01:01:45
Speaker
It's definitely a stark contrast for much wise, at least for when we had ready Savage, guest refereeing with B99. I enjoyed that part, but yeah, it's definitely a different takes on that. I did very much enjoy savages like flexing counts in particular, but the story of the match was in part about Savage. Yes. The focus kept coming back to him from time to time, where Malenko kind of like backgrounds himself a little bit until he really needs to be out in the open. Right. Exactly. Yeah.
01:02:14
Speaker
Now the awards that nobody wants. So first up, we have our least valuable performers, the people that either didn't add anything or actively took away from the shows. So with this one, I am letting you pick up to three. You do not have to pick three. OK. You need to pick at least one, but it doesn't have to go to three. OK, I think I can still pick three. But yeah, it's two or definitely stronger choices, I'd say. OK.
01:02:41
Speaker
First one is Dennis Rodman. Yeah. Because I mean, so for one thing, I had to watch all the buildup on this. Oh, yeah, that would be torture. And all that stuff where he's possibly doing very untoward things at the very least kidnapping a woman. And then somehow he's the face going into the storyline and he doesn't really wrestle a match at all. Right. He's a lot of punching and he lets Savage lead him up the ramp very casually. Are you kidding? He was the second coming of Ricky Steamboat.
01:03:10
Speaker
Oh, right. According to the announcers anyway. Yeah. Yeah. He's kind of like the opposite going back to the Blinco thing is you get nothing other than the idea that he's there as the appeal. He doesn't do anything really exciting. He just said, hey, Des Robins on this show.
01:03:26
Speaker
Right. Yeah, he's just a name. Yeah. And at that point, he's not even as good a name, but he's he's about a year or so past his big performance with the with the blanking all of a sudden now with the Bulls. Oh, OK. Being in Florida, when I started thinking, I think I think Bucks, I think not Bulls. Oh, I know it's not Bucks, but I try to I have done that myself. Yes, I will. Yeah. Yeah. He's just past his like peak performance. So he's even not much of our key name as they they had him before.
01:03:57
Speaker
And yeah, he just doesn't add anything to the show, and it's so bad. Ah, second, I have Buff Bagwell. Okay. So he's honestly okay on his first appearance, which is his 97 show with him and Scott Norton. He never does anything especially bad, but
01:04:18
Speaker
He's also not especially great, he does the real basic stuff, doesn't really stand out to me, but then you have 99, where he's suddenly in singles focus with Ernest Miller. And the idea is he's supposed to be carrying this guy and like, bring this match through. It's so stop start.
01:04:38
Speaker
It was one where it lives and dies by the crowd reaction. Like it need that for every spot. Yeah. So they constantly slow down or stop over those. And of course they botched the finish with their roll up. And that's not even the fact that in the buildup, he appears in blackface, which was cut from nitro on peacock. Yeah. So that's just an extra thing. It's not why he's there though. That should be enough to be, if he did it on the show, especially that'd be enough to put him in worse stuff. Right.
01:05:08
Speaker
Lastly, I feel, I don't know, I don't say I feel bad about it because, but it's, it's a less strong one. So Mongo. Okay. In the, was supposed to be officially had a tag match, which are Tim and Benoit against, essentially Jeff Jarrett and Milenko. And of course, Jarrett famously pins himself so he gets out of the match.
01:05:32
Speaker
I had to clap a bit for him, but I'm not judging Jeff Terri, I'm judging Mongo here. Again, Mongo doesn't really mess something up in this tag match. But again, it's real basic stuff, nothing especially exciting. And of the four people, he does the least. And when two of them are Ben Juan Malenco, which stands out more, I think. True, yes. And then of course, we get to 98, when for some reason, he's abruptly back with a singles match with Bryan Adams, who's a guy who's not going to be able to carry him through a match.
01:06:01
Speaker
No offense right now, but he just would never that guy. Mm hmm. And they bought really basic stuff like running clothes lines or possibly duck in a clothesline. It's these thoughts. Yeah, there's there's several spots in that match that go so wrong that you can't even tell what they were meant to be in the first place. Right.
01:06:17
Speaker
And it's, well, not to the same degree, having them on the show is similar in the Rodman aspect where it's, hey, Mog wasn't in the show, but then it's a random throwaway match for the opponent that's not a big name. And it's not part of a bigger story other than, hey, I want to be one of the Four Horsemen, which does really all of that matter to long-term. Right. So he's not even back in botching in a marquee match. He's back in botching in a fairly nothing match that I'm not even sure why it's on the show. Right. Yeah. I can see that.
01:06:45
Speaker
All right. So for mine, OK, I have Dennis Rodman. Yes. I realized that the guy only had one match on the series, but it was an absolute horror show. Yeah. Terrible action. Basic moves built up like they're innovative and amazing. A ridiculous series of ref bumps, giving it thus far the record for the number of replacement referees in one match. And it's far, far longer than it needs to be at over 11 minutes. Yeah.
01:07:11
Speaker
Worse, Rodman comes off as a truly horrible person in that appearance, apparently excited and hopeful to get to threaten the woman he previously kidnapped. His brief appearance on 97, where he did an awful job of spray painting NWO on the big gold belt, does not help. My second one, you named one participant in a certain match on 99, so I will name the other one, Ernest the Cat Miller.
01:07:39
Speaker
He comes out. He wears Confederate flag gloves. He repeatedly and annoyingly tries to start a promo. He chokes his opponent. A lot. He does precisely one interesting kick.
01:07:52
Speaker
Kat just puts on a very, very poor performance on this one. And yes, it's only once, but like with Rodman, that's kind of what earns him his place on this list. Most of the other people I could pick for poor moments, Hogan, Rick and Scott Steiner, maybe Savage, even Buff Bagwell.
01:08:10
Speaker
Have at least a solid or even a good segment elsewhere in the series that salvages things and remove them for me from contention. I don't really debate your choice of buff. No, I get you. Yeah. Just for me, him having the one match that's at least kind of solid earlier in the series kind of pulled it back for me a little. Right. Cat.
01:08:29
Speaker
Does not. Gotcha. But that's a thing that comes up with talking about performers leaving bad movies, for instance. When Tommy Wiseau only did The Room, for instance, people would go, oh, he's the worst director of all time. And I'm thinking at the time, but he's only done the one thing. Admittedly, it is The Room. Yeah. But yeah, it feels too early, especially with an all-time worst of all time aspect. If he did the worst director that year, I'd go, yeah, probably. Right, yeah, yeah.
Crowd Impact on Viewing Experience
01:08:58
Speaker
So, yeah, it's tricky when you have only one to go off. That's the thing with me with Buff and just listening with Mongo is that they showed they were competent at one point and they just really crapped the bed to love the metaphor. I could certainly say that as well. Yeah. So it's a debate people have on how you decide that. And for me, for the third one, again, going kind of interesting here, the crowd. Okay.
01:09:25
Speaker
So for all the positive contributions that they make to the show's identity, which earned them a place on my MVPs, the crowd often becomes a massive distraction as well. From their uncomfortably aggressive behavior towards Harlem Heat on the 1996 show, to their evident confusion about who the good and bad guy were in the Hogan versus Giant match on the same, to their constant interruption of in-ring promos that seem to genuinely throw several people off of their game, even good promo guys occasionally,
01:09:55
Speaker
The crowd can just be a disruptive presence as often as it's an interesting one. By the fourth show, it was really, really wearing on me. And as much as I liked them earlier, I just kind of wanted them to shut up and let the show happen. As I said, they were definitely worthy of MVP for just giving the show this unique feel. But at the same time, as the show's unique feel starts to drag on you, they are responsible for a large part of that.
01:10:23
Speaker
In many ways, they're like the Raw After WrestleMania crowd on Sussy and Bad Ears. Yes. Where they're like, this show is amazing because people are hyped up and everything. And they're like, we are awesome. Yeah. But they're like crazy champs. But then they'll chant for themselves. And then they'll want to interrupt with seeing Punk chant back before he's even back in wrestling. Right. Yeah.
01:10:42
Speaker
Yeah, definitely a double-edged sword with that kind of thing. And I think this is again where, you know, as we conversed earlier, they probably would not be on my list if we hadn't watched this as a single series. If we were doing ours just chronologically and then coming back, you know, towards the end of our show and looking back on it and saying, okay, who's your LVP for this series? I don't think the crowd would
Worst Matches Analysis
01:11:02
Speaker
be on there. No. But the fact that we did watch it this way. Yeah.
01:11:05
Speaker
Um, I think aggravated me over time and just made it really stand out how, how very disruptive they could be. Doesn't even think how complicated our setup would be doing wrap up as if we did that, the normal, the standard chronological way. Cause we, I guess we had, we had to do was like do, you know, 93, for instance, do every show in 93 and then do 93 year review. Yeah. All these random shows in a series.
01:11:31
Speaker
or genuinely I had in my original plan for this before we decided to do it series by series, I did have our last several things in 2000 as each series came to an end was a look back at that series as a whole still. So I always did have the series by series thing in mind, just a much more difficult version of it. I think we would have been even more thankful that I keep a database, I think. Absolutely.
01:11:57
Speaker
And now, your worst matches of the series. So again, pick up to three.
01:12:03
Speaker
Okay. Unsurprisingly, I have the Dance Rodman and Randy Savage match. Again, the match is the whole... It's disappointing for so many reasons, because I didn't expect anything from Rodman, obviously. But Randy Savage was such a good performer. And for some reason, I don't know if it's physical limitation, which I think was a factor to some degree. These were getting worse and worse as time went on, unfortunately. And he got much more into that brawling stuff and stopped doing elbow drops as regularly.
01:12:33
Speaker
I thought, at the very least, he could make his part of the match interesting and be like, okay, I can enjoy him and hate Rodman and maybe even out to some degree. You have mediocre food putting hot sauce you like on it. It helps, that kind of stuff. But he didn't help. Yeah, with Savage, much like with DDP, there's kind of an expectation that when he's in a match,
01:12:57
Speaker
It's going to be well plotted at least. Yeah. And it felt like this one was not. No, no, it was not. Yeah. Like maybe they'll bind a strategy doesn't work with Rodman. Like maybe he won't read them. Maybe, maybe. Yeah. This is a guy who, again, was supposed to be the heel, I think. But then he comes out wearing this like ridiculous robe, the same kind of robe Jericho wore as a heel. Yeah. Ninety eight. That takes the robot to wearing a Sturgis shirt.
01:13:22
Speaker
I don't even know if he's supposed to be the bad guy or the good guy. Yeah, I'm totally unclear on that in the lead up to that and in the match itself, who's supposed to be the bad guy in that match. Yeah, so it's one where unfortunately the reliable hand could not save things. It's really disappointing.
01:13:39
Speaker
Also, unsurprisingly, I have the Mongo versus Brian Adams match. Again, they botch really basic stuff. They always seem to go at 75% speed, especially because every show we have cruiserweights on there, and even heavyweights that wrestle more steady pace.
01:13:57
Speaker
And again, it's just, it's not even that important. It's not like it's for a title and it's not for any major application. It's just, Ma goes back and around. He's fighting random WO guys because he wants to bring the horsemen back, which again, long-term doesn't really matter. Okay.
01:14:14
Speaker
So it's not a good match, there's no stakes, and I'm not even sure why it's on the seal. So nothing saves it. And breaking the mold of stuff you were talking about in depth, I have the, my third worst, the NWO Invitational Battle Royal. Okay.
01:14:29
Speaker
So that one finds so many generational talents. You have Sting, Kevin Nash, you have people who have come to come to like that, you have like Slugars, you've got Giants, even people that never quite reach that high, but are always reliable hands in one way or another. Like you have Keconans, you're Scott Nordens and such. And they're all in this match. And then Goldberg pops in.
01:14:56
Speaker
It's the end of your invitational battle world, also featuring Goldberg, who's the world champion. So rather than just fighting a guy, he's just thrown in here to work with Battleworld, the gimmick being that what if he loses this match? First up, will it count towards his streak or not? Who knows?
01:15:11
Speaker
Because according to whoever tracks his street comicopedia, he got to one point, one victory for beating all these people in one match. So who knows? Yeah. And as you said, it just the match room disappears into it. There's very little story that really matters. I mean, you have Scott Hall being eliminated, then Kevin Nash leaves with them as part of their story.
01:15:33
Speaker
Nash also managed to avoid getting eliminated at the Nash way. At least it helps the story. Yeah. Yeah. But then so many people just vanish in this match, as you mentioned at one point in the match when they're just trying to clear people out. Scott Norden Stinger just locked up and just shoved out by the giant, I believe. Goldberg. Okay. Sorry. You're right. Yeah. The giant eliminates Lex Luger after Goldberg spears Lex Luger. So even that one relates to Goldberg. There you go. That's right. I was trying to rebook this better. I guess. Yes, exactly.
01:16:02
Speaker
But yeah, Sting just, he just like in a collarbone high up and just shoved out of the ring. You're like, oh, well, Sting's gone, I guess. Yeah. The biggest thing with this match though, is it takes all these people, puts them in one match, which means they can't be in other parts in the show. So stuff that shouldn't necessarily be on this show, like for instance, Mongo versus Brian Adams need to be on there because they're short, like eight people in this battle Royal. That's not even good.
01:16:28
Speaker
So so you blame. So this match is on your on your worst three because you blame its existence for the existence of Mongo versus Brian Adams. That is one factor. Yes. No, I definitely see your argument on it that if you're talking about the amount of wasted talent in one match, that's got to be up there with the worst waste of talent that we've ever seen. Definitely.
01:16:52
Speaker
For mine, I have Road Wild 1999, Cat vs. Buff Bagwell. Do a move, stall. Do a move, stall. Do a couple moves, stall. Choke, choke, choke. One kind of decent kick. More choking.
01:17:13
Speaker
That's this match. Actually that still makes it sound a little bit better than it actually is. It doesn't help that it takes forever to get going in the first place with repeated attempts at promos or the cat wears Confederate flag gloves or the buff Bagwell is well, buff Bagwell, really bad match. Don't forget Sunny Ono's hat. Yes. Sunny Ono's hat. Yes. That also counts against this. Yes. Or even then they mess the finish up. Yes.
01:17:40
Speaker
My second one, Road Wild 1999, Rick Steiner versus Goldberg. Yeah, it does be here. This match has even less variety than Cat versus Bagwell, which is astonishing but true.
01:17:53
Speaker
Steiner just spends an eternity hitting Goldberg with a knee brace in the most awkward manner he possibly could. Then loses because it's time to lose. I don't understand how Rick Steiner and Goldberg managed to put on a match so absolutely devoid of anything interesting. There are two guys who spend their careers hurling people around like ragdolls. Just do that to each other and it will work.
01:18:21
Speaker
This was a failure, but a massively perplexing failure. Uh-huh, yeah. And third. Uh-huh. Road Wild 1999. Mm-hmm. Guess which shows my worst show. Yeah. Dennis Rodman versus Randy Savage. 1999 just kept getting worse. Yeah.
01:18:41
Speaker
Rodman and Savage engaged in a match so incredibly dull and stupid that it hurt not just them, but the commentary team who had to pretend that something remotely interesting and exciting was going on. Add in five referees, a record, I believe, a stroll backstage and literal poop. Yes.
01:19:02
Speaker
And you have one of the worst matches, not just on this series, but on any series we have ever watched. It seems impossible that this involves Randy Savage, but it does. So here's the challenge for you, Bob. You have to watch one of these two matches. You have to decide which one. Dennis Rotten versus Randy Savage. Or Sting versus the Prisoner. Man. Yeah. Man.
01:19:33
Speaker
It's a more direct contest, I'd say, with the Ernest Miller buff Bagwell match without the stopping and choking, but thinking of the worst ones. Yeah. I go. I actually kind of think I'd choose Sting versus the Prisoner. It's shorter, I think. Yeah, it at least does not involve actual poop. Yeah. It's bad, but it's not actively stupid. Right. It's still a fairly straightforward match.
01:20:01
Speaker
No variety whatsoever. So it but I mean don't get me wrong that it's still it's a really close decision I know it the fact that you think about is not good. Yeah, what would your choice be between those would that be same for you? Yeah, I'd probably still go with sting in the prisoner Yeah, which says something about how bad Rodman versus savages Yeah, that we would both choose something that we have previously said was one of the worst matches we've ever watched
01:20:25
Speaker
I go back and watch that match with, uh, the chocolate master versus one of the two comms. Well, I mean, at least that one takes like what a minute 30. Right.
Best Commentary and Promo Segments
01:20:36
Speaker
But for the series overall, we've got some other awards to hand out. First up, the best commentary team. So which commentary team did you enjoy most and please name the show?
01:20:50
Speaker
All right. Uh, for me, it's the Tony Bobby dusty team from 96. Okay. Cause for them, this is all like with the audience. It's a real fresh experience. They're sort of getting used to this visual and working with this crowd. Like they play off all that new experimental nature of this whole thing very well. And of course the trio always worked together really well in general. Yeah. So giving us something fresh to work with the new environment and all this stuff. I think that stands out for me. Okay.
01:21:20
Speaker
For me, it was also Tony, Bobby and Dusty, but I chose Road Wild 1997. Okay. Obviously, as we all know by this point, I love this particular combination of commentators. Right.
01:21:32
Speaker
On this show, I just thought they did an excellent job of building up the show's theme. Their excitement over the chance that WCW has to eliminate the NWO and their descent into shock and despair as things turn against WCW in the end and they lose that chance really helped reinforce the show's events and fill some gaps in the show's concept, particularly from the overall lack of promo content. Yeah.
01:21:53
Speaker
They were needed really badly on the show and I felt they rose to the occasion just a tiny bit better for me than they did on the 96 show. Fair enough. I will admit that their, um, credulousness at the fake sting does hurt things a little bit, but yeah, not enough to remove the good of their overall performance. Okay. That's fine. Yeah. And this one, I don't know about you, but this one was hard for me.
01:22:15
Speaker
Yeah. The best promos or non-match segments were there things other than matches that stood out to us across the series. Name up to three.
01:22:25
Speaker
I mean, honestly, I still really didn't feel out. I'm really trying to look back and I'm like, what can I feel in here as this really memorable stuff? I mean, yeah, there's a little bit, I don't know. I honestly didn't write it down because I couldn't think of anything. The stuff I enjoyed at the short bursts, like in 99, they had a couple decent bits where they're playing with the crowd. I thought Candy did okay working with the crowd. Yeah. But yeah, I mean, there's really not much to cover, unfortunately, with the series.
01:22:51
Speaker
I'm struggling to fill out a list of things for something. There's just not much to say. Yeah, there's a surprising lack of promo content across this series. Yeah. I do have some in mind that I managed to do those, so you can tell me if you agree with mine. That's fine, yeah. Okay. I have Hogwild 1996, the post main event NWO promo. Oh, I've forgotten that one, yeah.
01:23:13
Speaker
It doesn't go perfectly. And there's ways that we said it could be improved for sure. But nevertheless, it's a really important promo. It's delivered pretty well. And it ends with an absolutely iconic moment, the defacing of the big gold belt, showing the pure disdain that the NWO have for WCW, for its history, for its traditions, as well as cementing the destruction of the prior Hulk Hogan persona by discarding his oldest friend.
01:23:40
Speaker
True, yeah. So I think there's ways it could have gone better. Man, it is a massively important one. And it goes well enough, I think, to make my list. Yes. That's one of those ones, it lives and dies with the fact that it's done right after the big match. And at the end of the show, because they just worked a match. And I got to remember all these lines and spots and cues. I'm sure that was a tough thing to do after a match. Yeah. Yeah. My second one, also from hogwild 1996.
01:24:06
Speaker
Rick Flair's pre-recorded promo. Oh, I forgot. You may remember this one. This was the video package that they air. They do air it on the show, so it counts. Yeah, it's clearly recorded prior, but they do air it on the show. Flair does just an excellent job in this one, going over a complex relationship with the NWO. Talks about his intent at first to just coexist with them, his realization at the cost of his friend, Arne Anderson's health.
01:24:29
Speaker
that that wasn't going to be possible, his desire for revenge, and his understanding that the NWO are a threat to the entirety of WCW. Flare does an amazing job of making the NWO angle different than other heal faction angles, and the fact that Flare himself is actually still quite a major heal at this point, but still pulls off a sympathetic promo and makes it clear the NWO is far worse is really impressive.
01:24:54
Speaker
No, yeah. Now I mentioned I did for Puerto Rico and that was well, but yeah, that is really good. Yeah. And my third one again from hog wild 1996, I will admit that that's part of the reason I had so much trouble choosing great promos is that all the good ones happened on hog wild 1996. It was the furthest show back, the giant and Jimmy Hart promo.
01:25:15
Speaker
This one's kind of shorter than the others, but I think goes quite well. Hart's part of this is pretty standard. And to be fair, Giant has a few perplexing wordings in the midst of his part, but nevertheless, he does a really good job of building up his personal sense of betrayal by Hogan, and explaining his prior heelish actions as a result of him understanding all along that Hulk Hogan was just an act, and Hollywood Hogan was the real Hogan.
01:25:39
Speaker
For still being a very new performer at this point, Giant did a good job with twisting the dynamic of his existing feud with Hogan to make himself the face in Hogan the heel. Not that the 1996 crowd picked up on it, but he gave it the old college try. Yeah.
01:25:53
Speaker
It's not quite as good as his promo on Nitro a few days prior, but it's still really good. Even as a decent one that they only play on the WWE Saturday Night Taping, which is where he attacks Ice Train. Oh, okay. He doesn't cover all the same ground, but yeah, he sort of builds up that he's there to keep them from getting power. Yeah. That's why he's important, yeah.
01:26:12
Speaker
Yeah, 1996 giant is continually surprising to me and how good he is at the character side of things. You really would expect that to be something that would take longer for someone to develop. Yeah. Like you can get the in ring stuff. If you're going to get that, you can get a decent level of skill in that in like your first couple of years. And maybe you can't do complicated things, but you can be capable at the basic stuff early. But it really feels like the character stuff should take longer to develop. But giant seems to get that basically immediately, which is really impressive.
01:26:42
Speaker
Yeah, the only thing with the Giant Prom was you have to forget that he turned to you and joined the vehicle like three weeks later. Yes. Yeah. Because money apparently to buy cigarettes, I guess. Yeah, I won't.
Gimmick Matches Discussion
01:26:52
Speaker
I won't get to this show, but it's definitely. Yeah. Not all matches are the usual sort of singles or tag match, though. So, Al, what was your favorite gimmick match on the series? Anything that wasn't just standard singles or tag?
01:27:08
Speaker
So based on the fact that I put it on the match of the series, you think it would be the no DQ match. Okay. With then one DP, but I think about it as much as I really enjoy the match. It's really good. I don't think it is that much with the no DQ aspect of it. Other than using belts and such. They're pretty harsh, but I think the only thing they do is with the belt.
01:27:27
Speaker
Yeah, exactly. So the one I also enjoyed didn't make the cut, but Joy of the Match and had more with the gimmick was the three-way Ravens rules match from 98, I believe it was? I believe so, yeah. Yeah, 98, yeah. Because that one, they fought all over the place. They went up the stage and they saved a little dive that Saturn did in a less safe fall that Canyon did a bit later. Yeah. So that one, I think, made the most of its gimmick and was also in Joy of the Match for that.
01:27:56
Speaker
Okay. For mine, I'm going to go maybe a little bit out of left field here, I think, but I'm going to say the elimination tag match from Road Wild 1997. Okay. The Malenko and Jarrett versus Mongo and Benoit. It's not a huge gimmick, but I thought they used it quite well with Jarrett having lots of fun with his short role and poor Malenko just getting a break only for his partner to immediately betray him by eliminating himself. Yeah. It's a really unusual way to screw over a tag partner and make for a memorable moment.
01:28:26
Speaker
There's other matches that are technically gimmick matches that I like somewhat better as a match. For instance, Mysterio versus Konan's technically a no DQ match, but I didn't feel like that really used the gimmick, like you said with Paige versus Benoit. Yeah, agreed. It just seemed like a brutal standard match.
01:28:42
Speaker
The elimination tag makes the gimmick intrinsic to the match story. So that's where I felt that one called out more. T-art realizes in character that I can get out of fighting manga, which is what he wanted. He didn't want to fight manga at all. Yeah. So I can get out of this by getting pinned and then and then high tailing it out. Exactly. Yeah. Leave him with my life. And the the the joy with which he does that is amazing. Yeah.
01:29:06
Speaker
Do you have a worst type of gimmick match? You can either name a specific match or name the overall type if there's one that just keeps coming up. Right. For me, the fact that it wasted so many people, that Battle Royal for the NWO stuff was the worst one for me. Okay. Yeah. It's the worst use of all that talent.
01:29:23
Speaker
Yeah, yeah. Just like you said, the the sheer amount of wasted talent in that and the questionableness of how it's booked. Yeah. Yeah. As we discussed in the episode, if they had done it were a rumble style or something to read that would be interesting. Yeah. You get alternated. The Wolfpack and black and white people coming in spaced out the eliminations. People wouldn't have gotten lost so easily in that because you'd only have a few people in the ring at one time. Yeah, exactly.
01:29:50
Speaker
For mine, I would have said no DQ matches because of Rodman versus Savage, but otherwise no DQ matches actually went pretty well on this series overall. So it kind of feels bad to declare that my worst type based off of really one going particularly poorly. So instead, see if you think that this actually qualifies as a type of its own L. If you don't, I have a second choice. Standard tag matches that become no DQ matches midway through.
01:30:19
Speaker
Gee, what would that be? So that would be dancing fools versus the public enemy. I just found that so so annoying, especially how it just pauses the match entirely halfway through, loses all momentum so they can go about retrieving weapons all the way from backstage.
01:30:37
Speaker
It's bad because of the gimmick or more precisely because the gimmick changes midway. It also doesn't help that rocker rock spends most of the match wandering away at random intervals whenever his poor partner gets in trouble. Yeah. Do you feel like that's a, yeah, no, absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. I was, I was questioning cause it technically starts as a standard tag, but I think the conversion made it as a unique gimmick of its own. No, agreed. Yeah.
01:31:00
Speaker
And just so you know, my alternative was the battle royale. Gotcha. The NWO invitational. Cause I agree with you on basically every point you made about
Notable Performers
01:31:08
Speaker
that. It just wasn't for me. It wasn't quite as annoying. No, I gotcha. All right. Here's a fun one. Okay. The best performer with a single appearance on the series. So who was it? You really, really would have loved to see again the most.
01:31:24
Speaker
Okay, so going off on your choices earlier, I would go with Ultimo Dragon. Okay. His mattress theory was really good. I wish it had given him more story, like, to why it's happening, but it's inside its own match. It told a good story, like he said, of Dragon being confident and overconfident and that costing him. And obviously he's been a very reliable performer through this Dark Age series and other series as so. Eddie Dragon is always good.
01:31:50
Speaker
With this being a short series, there's a lot of good performers that only show up once. Altimo Dragon, Hooventookerara, Kidman, who really seems underused even in his one appearance, Psychosis, Barry Windham, Jeff Jarrett. A lot of good choices there. But of those, I'm gonna agree with you. I'm gonna go with Altimo Dragon.
01:32:08
Speaker
He is always a good, reliable, impressive performer, and it's a massive shame we don't get him more than once on this series. I think when we hit 1998, it's actually, I believe, at that point, not an option because of an injury and botched surgery earlier in that year. Oh, yeah, at least so. But, man, in an ideal world, I definitely could have used him on 98 and 99 in particular. Yeah. I am surprised in your list of people that you mentioned. Public Enemy was nowhere to be heard on there. Are you that surprised? No, I don't know.
01:32:38
Speaker
I'd like to be surprised, but I'm not. There may be a series where they make that list. I don't know. We'll see.
01:32:46
Speaker
I do have an honorable mention as well. I can't call this guy the best performer with a single appearance, but he had a good look and seemed charismatic and probably quite capable. He just had the misfortune of being a small part of a bad, confusing match. Tokyo Magnum. Okay. Looking at the guy and seeing how he moved and he seemed to have some grace to him and everything, I would have liked to see him in a match to see what he could do.
01:33:09
Speaker
Yeah, I don't think he ever got to be like, Hey, I'm a normal guy wrestling in WCW. I think he always stuck with that. Uh, from what I understand, he's had quite a long career. So, um, I don't think that we necessarily will get a chance at seeing a match on a WCW show, but he's a guy that I would have been interested to see what he could actually, uh, manage in a match. I would say for me, I don't want to mention it's probably either bull in a condo or Medusa. Yeah.
01:33:32
Speaker
Always could use more. Yeah. Yeah. That's the thing about the series. We have one women's match for the whole series. Yeah. Eventually coming off of let's bring the deuces back from WDF because she's not happy. Not getting enough attention and not enough work, you know, for people in the division. And this is what we have for you. One match and nothing ever again. Yeah. Yeah. No debate there. Most improved. Is there anyone that you thought wasn't doing too great when they first showed up, but later on they really improve and turn things around?
01:34:02
Speaker
Yes. So while I don't think he's bad at first, I think either example of combination of changing opponents and experience is just being booked better. For me, it's the giant. Okay. Because I had the direct comparison of his 96 match with Hogan.
01:34:19
Speaker
Which, as we've said many times, has the handicap of being Hogan's first real heel match in a good decade at this point. And he doesn't know that he needs to change his style enough. And he still does all these power moves on the Giant. The Giant is going down to both knees from a single knuckle lock and like a split backhand. All these things. So, 97, you have the Giant with Savage.
01:34:43
Speaker
When Savage is really motivated and gets to work, Savage really puts him over and shows how you use him enough of his athleticism and size. Savage can play the confident heel in his brief, but he's in control. But it's clear that Giant, once he's able to work properly, can overcome all this ease and he does that really well. And he doesn't drop off because 98 he's really good in that role as well.
01:35:09
Speaker
Right. Yeah. With Goldberg. If there's one guy other than Goldberg that gets built up by that match is giant. Yes. Yeah. Well, that's going to be interesting. Okay. Because for me, and this does come with a large caveat that I will get to, I am choosing Hulk Hogan. Okay.
01:35:26
Speaker
So we both noted this at Hogwild96, as you just mentioned, he's just starting out in his heel roll. He has not done for at least a decade. Yeah. He's clearly not sure how best to structure a match around it after spending more than a decade as a face. In 1997, he has massively improved in his match against Luger, able to provide a match with a much better flow and balance than in 1996. Yeah.
01:35:50
Speaker
In 1998, he's in a weird match, but he does his part in it. And he works quite well with DDP to make that match quite a bit better than it had any right to be. It's still not great, but I mean, I was expecting an absolute horror show, Dennis Rodman versus Savage style. And I got a little bad, not that bad. Over a long maybe, but yeah. Yeah. I mean, the fact that that match doesn't show up on either of our worst matches of the series match, I think is a testament to Paige and to Hogan on that. Yeah.
01:36:20
Speaker
The caveat, unfortunately, is 1999, where while it is somewhat endearing to see him having fun being back in his old babyface gimmick, his match against Nash is just plain dull. Still, his 1996 to 1997-98 transition is something I felt I needed to acknowledge here as a genuine improvement.
01:36:37
Speaker
For all disparate Hogan, for many different reasons, I can't really dispute that logic.
Show Rankings and Critique
01:36:42
Speaker
Yeah. I'm actually, I'm kind of glad that collectively we've picked both participants in that first disappointing main event that both of them go on to have a better run later in the series on the next two shows. So they kind of mirror each other that way, which is interesting. Yeah, that's true.
01:37:01
Speaker
And now, Al, you suggested that since this series is so short, we should actually try to rank the wilds. Yes. I would normally say is a really hard thing, but at least for me, I actually did have a pretty clear picture of it. So we'll see if we agree on this. Okay. So, uh, how about we go from best to worst? Okay. All right. You want to go first.
01:37:22
Speaker
Sure. Uh, for me, the best show is 97. Okay. I think being the second show, it has the benefit of experience. They know what they could do with the setting and with the stage. Obviously it's unfortunate there's less biker stuff on it, but as a whole, it feels more like a specialty biker show that aside.
01:37:42
Speaker
and the quality match is still really good on there. And for me, the contrast is that there's matches like Savage and Giant and matches like Luger and Hogan that show what could have been done with the previous year's main event and stuff like that to build up that. So you can see improvement.
01:38:01
Speaker
Second for me is 96. It's a really strong show Quality wise for the most part. They're still getting their bearings on how they should do the staging like it's just the crowd There's no extra seating which is a problem that is very sparse with like the look of the biker aspect Again with the one match that actually matters of the theme. Yes, so both really good But I think 97 is a more realized show in a lot of ways Those the good shows
01:38:28
Speaker
Honestly, I have gone both ways in this for different reasons. But for me, the third show is Gobby 98. Okay. There's a lot of problems with it. Aside from that, they finally get all the stage completely done now with the nice road ramp and everything. Still can't believe it took them three years to realize that that should be a thing. Yeah, it's called Road Wild. Not that hard, right? Come on, guys.
01:38:52
Speaker
Yeah, the problem with that show is the match quality and like booking decisions are really strange. Like, I mean, they have this weird non-match with Chavo Guerrero where he's insane. Apparently trying to take the TV title, which already is in a weird status because it was supposedly granted via power of attorney to TV Ray. Yeah, that's odd. Biggest Booker T was legit injured and he didn't want to end his title reign with another tournament for once.
01:39:20
Speaker
And now we see why WCW regularly does tournaments because all their other ideas are stupid. Correct.
01:39:26
Speaker
There's so much that doesn't really matter on the show, like Mongo and Brian Adams and stuff like that. But then there's stuff that could be good and should be better. Like I just mentioned, the Battle Royal, the booking all over the place with that and some talent squeezed into it. And it affects the rest of the show because so much of the talent is back-ended in this terrible match. So of course, the worst show in the series following that logic is 99. It's the worst show quality-wise for sure.
01:39:55
Speaker
They even lose little things they actually gained. Like, they don't have the personalized license plate intros. Yes. They just have the same generic one. Mm-hmm. Because the previous show, they would change them based on the person. Like, they'd have the colors to them or they have something else. Actually, the personalized ones are 97. Oh, I'm sorry. The generic ones are 98 and then 99, I believe they lose them entirely. Oh, there you go. So it's worse than anything. Yeah.
01:40:18
Speaker
But obviously just match quality is bad. And it's weird because so much of this is like, let's build this new generation of talent up here. Let's have DDP make Ben Wabic the next big thing in wrestling has matches booked. Then let's end the show with Hogan doing his same tie routine from 1983 and acting surprised how this goes in 1999. Yeah. So yeah, that's definitely the worst show. All right. Ready to see if we're the same. Sure.
01:40:47
Speaker
For me, the best show is Hogwild 1996. So for me, the first was the best of the bunch. Admittedly, it's probably at least in part because everything felt the freshest to me. But it also has two of my favorite matches from the series. A generally solid color, otherwise with the exception, admittedly, of its main event. And every single one of my favorite promo segments. It's a very entertaining, fun show with some very notable and important moments on it.
01:41:18
Speaker
Second best, so we're swapping our positions, is Road Wild 1997. To me, this felt like an imitation of 1996's offering, repeating a lot of the same themes. Taken purely on its own, it's nevertheless a solid show with a collection of acceptable to good matches and some excellent work by the commentary team. It just never quite reaches the heights of 96 for me in match quality and the lack of promo content really hurt it as well. Agreed, yeah.
01:41:48
Speaker
Second worst, Road Wild 1998. WCW got the set right this year with just about everything else was downgrade. There's a couple of good matches on this one. In fact, it does have one of my matches of the series, but there's also several bad or at least dull ones, including an agonizing middle section of the show filled with bad comedy and disappointments.
01:42:12
Speaker
It's capped off by a just plain strange main event that, though it definitely went better than I had feared, is still not good.
01:42:22
Speaker
And finally, worst, I will totally agree, Road Wild 1999. By far the worst show of the series for me. 1998 is bad, but not even close to as bad as 99. Shoddy booking, repetitive spots, sloppy performances, mostly useless pre-match promos that take too much time because the crowd keeps interrupting.
01:42:44
Speaker
Look, there's decent or even good stuff to be found here, notably Page versus Benoit. But you have to work hard to stay interested enough in the show to find it. And then just when you think you've got some hope, the last four matches of the show happen and just kill the thing dead and dance on its grave.
01:43:04
Speaker
I, I know one of them you found to be a little bit better than me, but at least the last three matches for you. Yeah. Yeah. Kill it. That's great. Oh yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I don't, I guess that I don't put sit and sting in that kind of everybody. I probably agree with the rest of it. Yes. Yeah.
01:43:22
Speaker
And I declare if I see why you put something there. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And to be clear, like I do behind the scenes actually have like a ranking system for sit instinct does not get the same rating as Rodman and Savage and Rick Steiner and Goldberg. Right. But it's still poor to me. No. Yeah. So it kind of starts the decline of the show again. And then the other ones complete it, kill it, bury it and dance on his grave. Yes.
01:43:50
Speaker
Yeah, it was interesting. We almost almost 100% agreed on that. Yeah. But I just switched our top ones. Yeah, I was pretty sure. Yeah. I was 99% sure you'd be at 96 straight through. And I was like, I think 97 slightly more realized as a whole theme-wise. I can certainly see. I think this is again, we're going back to what we said earlier. Yeah.
01:44:09
Speaker
If you watch it straight through just as a series on its own, I think 96 feels the freshest and then it gets progressively less fresh from there. But if you did have time between them, I did try to look at it that way in my rankings as well. I don't know if I was fully successful or not, but just looking at the amount of stuff that I've highlighted earlier on my awards that's from 96, I still had to give the edge to 96. So I think that was that was part of it for me as well.
01:44:36
Speaker
Yeah, I don't think either one is an invalid. No, look at it. No, that's the thing. Yeah. We've given our awards and analysis, but there's one more thing we'd like to do here to have some fun with this. Our ultimate wild cards.
01:44:54
Speaker
So here's the rules.
Ultimate Wild Card Concept
01:44:56
Speaker
Each of us designs a card featuring eight matches drawn from the actual Hog and Road Wild matches. We can only use each performer as a competitor once. So someone can show up as a manager or a commentator or interference or some other role in other matches, but you can only use them once as an actual competitor. So for instance, if you pick Jericho versus Guerrera from Road Wild 1998, you can't use any match where either one was a competitor elsewhere. Not a problem for Guerrera.
01:45:24
Speaker
But you can still use Dean Malenko in another match, since he's only a referee in that one. You can use any match in any position. You're not required to pick an actual main event for your main event. Al, which one of us you want to go first? I can go first. Okay, go ahead. So I don't have this in order. As I was writing it, I just wanted to write it as a thinking of so. Don't think of this as an actual, like, straight match order. Okay, okay. Yeah.
01:45:51
Speaker
I will, I will say what I think my main event is. Okay. And my one does evolve tweaking of one aspect of it, but I can make it work. Okay. All right. So going in no particular order, I have Randy Savage versus the giant from 97 show. Okay. That was really enjoyable. That really builds up the giant for future storylines in this alternate universe. We live in where this happens. I had the Mexican death match for a Mysterio and Conan from 97 as well. All right. There's, I see how mine, mine says I have a lot of 97s on here. There you go.
01:46:20
Speaker
One I have on here that is tweet booking wise dude another match being on here I have DP versus Chris Benwoff in the 99 show. Okay to make my work contextually. It's not a US title match Okay, it's a number one contenders match for the world title that works I have the tag team match of Lex Luger instinct versus the outsider from 96. Okay, I enjoyed that one a lot That could be a tag title thing, but that doesn't matter. It's more important that they're fighting to dominance or what have you? Okay
01:46:49
Speaker
The reason why I had to rebook the importance of DP Benoit is because I have Rick Flair vs Eddie Guerrero. Oh, okay. But it's still for the US title. All right. I figure the situation where Flair is holding the title he's very established with, he held that a lot in the 80s before it became World Champion Rick Flair. Really helps build up Eddie Guerrero, so I wouldn't take that aspect away from him. I figured the DP Benoit Matt feels like trying to crown the next contender anyways, so making it that way makes more sense for me.
01:47:18
Speaker
Okay. Just because, one, it is good, but also I want to get in the presence. I have Boduso versus Buonacano. Okay. 96 show. I described as the winner smashes the other as a bike match. I don't know if that's really how you call it, but that's what I call it. Even if oddly booked for the ending, it's still a very adorable match. And again, the only one that thematically fits this idea, the concept of the series. Right. Yeah, that is very true. Yeah. Yeah, it's also the only one that features numb jucks, as Dusty Rhodes would say. Yes, that's true.
01:47:49
Speaker
I've also got the Raven's Rules match between Saturn, Canyon, and Raven from the 98 show. Okay. To give you a little bit of everything on the wrestling show, which is always good, you want some nice or necessarily hardcore in the sense of cracks, skulls, and you know, rough falls and tables and such. But just so the more chaotic action to contrast, say a Guerrero Flair match or DP Benwall match, or any other match like that. So it's something that's different. It's not putting a tag match on a show. Right.
01:48:17
Speaker
And lastly, again, not in order of words on the card, I have who would to Guererra versus Chris Jericho for the cruise rate title with team like as referee. As far as what would be my main event on these kind of torn, I feel like it should be DP Benwall. If it's really if I'm doing a show with no Hogan is champion, if that's what's going on in this this point, if in your view, that's you had said that's number one contender for the world title. So that would make sense as a main event.
01:48:44
Speaker
Yeah, I was going back for between that or the Randy Savage giant match. But yeah, I'd say yeah, if that's the number 10 match, that's number one. Okay. Because it's it's either title match or fighting for the title match. So yeah, that's mine. All right. So my card and mine I do have in order. Okay. My first match opener is Ultimo Dragon versus Ray Mysterio Jr. from hog wild 1996. An excellent opener becomes an excellent opener. Fair enough.
01:49:12
Speaker
Number two, the Steiner Brothers versus Harlem Heat from Hogwild 1996. Hopefully the Earth 96.99 version has a less uncomfortable crowd reaction. Yeah, it does hope, yeah. But it was a good match overall. I thought I remember really liking the Heat's teamwork during it. Number three, Kurt Hennig versus Diamond Dallas Page from Roadwild 1997. On Earth 96.99, they switched the order of the Hennigplexes to make a little bit more sense. Yeah, that'd be good.
01:49:39
Speaker
Number four, uh, like you said, it's important to have some variety. So the Ravens rules, Raven versus Saturn versus Canyon from road wild 1998, uh, to get a little bit of a no DQ craziness on there. Number five, edit grow versus Rick flair from hog wild 1996. I thought that Rick flair building up, uh, younger performers was an important part of this series. I wanted to get that on there.
01:50:04
Speaker
Number six, who went to Guerrero versus Chris Jericho with Dean Malenko is guess referee from road wild 1998. I also adore that match. And on my version that leads directly to Chris Benoit versus Dean Malenko from hog wild 1996. 96 99 Chris Jericho causes Malenko's loss to Benoit to get revenge for the previous match. Ah, okay.
01:50:29
Speaker
And finally, we have, as our main event, Sting and Lex Luger versus the Outsiders from Hogwild 1996. So yeah, there's no world title match on my card either, but this is a big time WCW versus NWO match. So it still feels like a worthy main event. Hopefully under 96, 99, they could be ending timing just a tad better. Yeah. Or maybe not. That was hilarious.
01:50:53
Speaker
I will say it's interesting. I know why we didn't, but neither one of us took the chance to have the number six match. The Ric Flair versus six. I considered putting that one on there, but I think Guerrero's is the stronger of the two Ric Flair matches for that purpose. The sixth one is not bad. No, no, no. Let's be clear. But yeah, that is funny. We both could have taken that chance. Yeah. Other than that one timing botch with like the suplex, that match is really the two is stronger. Yeah. Yeah.
01:51:21
Speaker
I think we, we both had good cards and to your earlier point on a lot of yours being from 97, uh, let's see, one, two, three, four, five of my eight matches are from 96. So I think that explains why again, 96 was my show when 97 was your show for top. Fair enough. Yeah.
01:51:40
Speaker
You ready for this, Al? I think I am. Now it is time for some re-gimmicking. So each of us has been given a match from each other's card, and now we have to give that match a new gimmick or stipulation that would turn it into something new. We provided our matches to each other ahead of time, but we haven't heard each other's re-gimmicking, so this should be interesting. So Al, do you want to hear the one I've re-gimmicked for you first or the one that you've re-gimmicked for me first? I always go first. You go first. Okay.
01:52:11
Speaker
So for me, Al provided Conan versus Mysterio in a Mexican deathmatch from Road Wild 1997.
01:52:22
Speaker
All right, so Rey is coming to this one with a lingering knee injury, as the commentators point out extensively. And we need to even things up a bit. So this is a crutch match. OK. Now, that's not a match where crutches are legal weapons, not quite anyway. No, the rule for this match is that both competitors have one leg tied up in bent position unusable. So they have to support themselves with at least one crutch any time that they're in standing position. They can use two if they want, but they have to use at least one. OK.
01:52:51
Speaker
If you ever undo the leg straps that are holding your leg in place, you're disqualified. If you hop around for more than a five count without using your crutch, you're disqualified. Crutches are legal weapons, but only when used to replace a leg in moves. For instance, a standing side crutch, or a drop crutch, or a springboard crutch drop, or Ray's favorite, the crutch ocarana. Yeah. If you just swing the crutch at the other guy without mimicking a leg-based move, that's a DQ.
01:53:21
Speaker
I'm picturing Ray trying to do his Bronco Buster hopping that way. Fortunately, he's not doing that at this point. Oh, that's true. Still funny visual. Conan still ends up winning this one by hooking all of the crutches through each other around Mysterio in an improvised and very complicated submission hold, making sure to sit down nearby so he doesn't face the five count. All right. I'm glad you didn't go the obvious route and just make it a Mexican hat match. Yeah, I avoided that.
01:53:49
Speaker
For Al, I provided Chris Jericho versus Huventud Guerreira, guest referee Dean Malenko from Road Wild 1998. So Al, what you got for me? Ah, yes. I have turned it into the Milbodegas match, which is banished for 1,000 holds. Ah. At the request of Dean Malenko, guest referee, the Italian match is all about wrestling holds and math. OK. Each competitor is given the complete list of 1,000 holds to memorize in the buildup to this show.
01:54:20
Speaker
Each move they did successfully is then added to their score. The score is based on where they are placed in the list of 1000 holds. The match takes place in five minute rounds. At the end of each round, their score is tallied up and the person with the most points wins.
01:54:36
Speaker
Okay, I like it. Doing example, a Fujiwara armbar, which is 293, gets you more points than a standard armbar, which is 215. Okay, okay. Now, does this use a Di-Malenko approved list? Or does it use Chris Jericho's list that he brought out of Nitro where an armbar could get you like a million points because it shows up everywhere? Well, is that the request of Di-Malenko? Oh, okay. It's the official. He de-cheatifies it.
01:54:59
Speaker
It's the official book of a thousand holds. Yeah. Okay. All right. Yes. Presumably he worked on that with Mike Tanay because Tanay has got his dictionary of pinning somebody. Yes. This map by the way works really well with modern format changes with visuals where they often have to fill out the sidebar for widescreen. Right. Right. You replace the blank bars of widescreen with the writing tally list. There you go. Yeah.
01:55:21
Speaker
So you go, oh, hit this and you can even you can like keep track of it as you watch. Absolutely. That's that. Oh, he did this move. That's worth more points. That would be cool. I mean, you could even distribute, you know, sheets of holds to the crowd so they could keep track themselves throughout the match. I'll tell you, I wish new gem podcast was still still running because I would send that to them. Paul Scriven's huge math guy would love that match.
01:55:45
Speaker
Yeah. It's all based on this non-existent list, but like not just like trying to do as many moves as you can. It's which number they are in the ranking. So you got to figure out what move is ranked for a thousand. Just try and do that a couple of times. Yeah. Yeah. That's a good bumper. That's true. Yeah. But that's presumably the hardest hold to do. So maybe if you do, you know, move number seven 50 and do it three times, you can exceed someone who managed to do a thousand, but only twice. Exactly. Yeah. There's a lot of strategies to that. You know,
01:56:13
Speaker
And of course, Blanco is a guest referee because he knows all thousand holes. Oh, right. Yeah. He doesn't need the list. Yeah. He's doing all that in his head. He has it in his computer brain. Yeah. Yeah. Because he has a robot. Yes. He's not Terry Taylor, the computerized man from the 1990s, but he is close. Yes.
01:56:32
Speaker
And that wraps up our coverage of hog slash road wild. So what have we got coming up next? Well, next up is our 50th episode. I didn't think we'd make it past five. 50 is pretty impressive. I can't believe we made it to 50. It's definitely mind boggling. Right.
01:56:53
Speaker
We wanted to do something unusual and special for number 50. And I've been wanting to head back to the eighties after so much time at the NWO era recently.
Teaser for Next Episode
01:57:02
Speaker
So we are for a look at 1988s, AWA super clash three. A lot of familiar faces show up on that show. Some of which we have not seen in a very long time. Yeah. We have Jeff Jarrett. Okay. That's more recent. Wayne Bloom. Yeah.
01:57:22
Speaker
DDP in manager mode, Medusa, Ron Garvin, Sergeant Slaughter, Wahoo McDaniel, Manny Fernandez, the Rock and Roll Express, and at long last, making his dread return, the Boogie Woogie Man, Jimmy Valiant. Presumably he's fresh from losing yet another Loser Leaves Town match and returning anyway.
01:57:53
Speaker
I guess I must have said his name three times over a period and now he has appeared. He's back. He's back. We've summoned him.
01:58:01
Speaker
It'll be interesting to see him again, though, genuinely, because I recall not liking him at all at first. And then by the end, I was like, OK, he has gotten better, but I'm still kind of tired of him. Yeah. But we've now gone for, let's see, he has like four matches in the first series. So I think we've now gone for forty six episodes without seeing him. Yeah. So it'll be interesting to see if he's one in better mode still and two tolerable because I haven't seen him in so long.
01:58:29
Speaker
I believe we also, not to spoil too much, we get to see more of the extended Guerrero family as well. I believe so, yes. Yeah. I think we see Chavo Sr., right? Yes. Yeah. So that'll be interesting to see. And of course, I believe Hector's on there as well. Yes. We haven't seen Hector since 84, right? Or E5?
01:58:46
Speaker
It's either 84 or 85. I can't remember which, but yeah, it's been a while since we saw the guy that looks almost identical to Eddie Guerrero. It's the, yeah, it's the Starrcade show where if you leave the ring, it's the plague void of deep space. The abyss beyond. Yes. Don't do it by the outside. You may never return. Yes.
01:59:02
Speaker
After that, we're going to make good on a promise that we made on Road Wild 1999. The commentators let us know on that show that two wrestlers on that show featured in films that year. And we got curious about just how featured each guy was. So we're going to take a look for ourselves. First up, we will review First Daughter starring Diamond Dallas Page. And then second, we'll do Universal Soldier The Return starring Goldberg.
01:59:30
Speaker
And then our actual bridge show. It's a very long bridge this time. Yes. You may have noticed that despite the fact that WCW was still around in August of 2000, there is no Road Wild 2000. WCW decided not to go back to Sturgis in 2000, instead heading off to Vancouver for New Blood Rising.
01:59:57
Speaker
This show is pretty infamous. Yeah. Featuring among other things, Judy Bagwell on a forklift. Yes. Mud wrestling and a particularly noteworthy triple threat match between Kevin Nash, Scott Steiner and Goldberg. It didn't feel quite right to call it part of the hog or road wild series, but it still feels like we need to do it now to actually complete the series. If that makes sense. It does. Yes.
02:00:26
Speaker
And now, our next series. Just when you thought it was safe to go back to the beach.
02:00:36
Speaker
WCW Beach Blast! This summer beat the Heat with a barrage of buff-buds and bodacious babes. Because WCW is cruising through the party down on the Gulf Coast. We're talking to Sizzlin' Slam Fest. When you've seen a mega-ranger, it's totally featured! WCW Beach Blast! Beat the Heat Live! Saturday, June 20th. Be there, only on pay-per-view. Call your local cable operator for availability.
02:01:01
Speaker
Next up is the combination of Beach Blast and Bash at the Beach. Despite a slightly bigger title change this time, we're considering these all the same series as they're all midsummer shows based around a beach theme. Running from 1992 through 2000, they cover a total of nine shows and feature some of the most notable events in WCW history and Hulk Hogan's history besides. Yes.
02:01:29
Speaker
1994's offering gives us Hogan's first WCW pay-per-view match. 1996 gives us the formation of the NWO. And 2000 gives us Hogan's final WCW appearance. It literally bookends his career. Yes. And if memory serve 99 gives us a new competitor for worst match of these podcasts so far.
02:01:52
Speaker
Yeah, there's some there's some interesting ones on here So you want to hear what other stuff shows up on this series? I'll sure so we know what to look forward to all right We got Ricky Steamboat versus Rick rude nice Sting and Davey Boy Smith versus the masters of the powerbomb Hopefully we also get to review the mini movie WSW made to promote that one. We'll make sure that happens don't worry
02:02:15
Speaker
Vader versus guardian angel in a rematch from one of your favorites from spring stampede out. Oh yeah. Admittedly with a bit of a gimmick change there a little bit, but it'll be interesting to see if they pull off something just as good this time. Yeah. Diamond Dallas page versus Dave Sullivan. Pray for diamond Dallas page there. Yes. The nasty boys versus public enemy in a dog collar match.
02:02:41
Speaker
Luger and giant versus Hogan and Rodman. Yay. Yay. Yeah. Diamond Dallas page and Carl Malone versus Hogan and Rodman again. Yay. Because I needed more Rodman matches. Uh-huh. The junkyard invitational, the graveyard match. Oh boy. Tell you, we will have some interesting stuff on this one and never has the word interesting carried more weight.
02:03:10
Speaker
Yeah, if you thought any series should feature a graveyard match and a junkyard match, you thought, oh, obviously, bash at the beach. Right, yeah, the beach theme show. No, no. What beach are you going to? Yeah. Oh, my gosh. Apparently, for the graveyard match, you're like the beach of Hades. Yeah, I guess so. On the nice shores of the River Styx, just looking out over the lost souls going by. Yes, exactly. I mean, if you get a good enough grouping of them, they actually become quite a nice wave to surf on them.
02:03:39
Speaker
Okay. Yeah, it's kind of disrespectful though, so... A little bit, yeah. So again, our upcoming releases will be... In December, our 50th episode, Super Glash 3. In January, First Daughter. In February, Universal Soldier The Return. In March, New Blood Rising. And finally in April, we will start our new series with Beach Blast 1992.
02:04:09
Speaker
So hang 10 folks surf's up. Cowabunga and other assorted surfer sayings. Those are all the ones I know. Uh, big Wednesday. Is that, is that one? That's a movie. Oh, okay. Yeah. It's about surfing. Okay. We'll go with that.
02:04:27
Speaker
If you've enjoyed listening to us tonight, you can find us on Twitter or Facebook as Let's Go to the Ring. Links will be available in the episode description. Follow us for episode announcements and other show details and share your own thoughts about each show as we go through. You can subscribe to our show on Apple Podcast, Google Podcast, High Heart Radio, Spotify, Stitcher Radio, TuneIn, Verbal, or Audible.
02:04:51
Speaker
And please, if you've enjoyed this show, give us a rating or review and share the show through your favorite social media platforms to help others discover us. Many thanks to OSW review for attendance and pay-per-view figures, and to Gina Trujillo for our logo. This is Bob Moore for Alec Prigen, signing off. Good night, everybody. Happy wrestling.
02:05:27
Speaker
The top three positions don't change if we use only initial referee appearances. Henson loses one replacement appearance to hit 26, but Robinson also loses two to hit 25, matching, oops, I may have that slightly off. So I may rerecord this later because if Robinson loses two, he hits 20. Oh yeah, I typed it wrong. Okay, that's all. Have a good job.