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Health, Pride, and Perseverance with Dr. Demetre Daskalakis #53
43 Plays19 days ago
Description:
In this episode, Mattie Bynum and Shane Lucas sit down with Dr. Demetre Daskalakis to explore his journey from a curious kid with a doctor’s kit to a national leader in public health. He shares how witnessing the HIV/AIDS crisis firsthand shaped his life’s mission and why community care remains central to his work. The conversation dives into the politicization of public health, the erosion of trust in institutions, and what it means to rebuild systems rooted in community. With humor and honesty, they unpack how queer communities can rely on “muscle memory” to navigate today’s challenges. The episode leaves listeners with a call to stay persistent, engaged, and grounded in collective power.
Guest descriptors:
Insightful, Bold, Grounded
Episode tags:
#PublicHealth #HIVPrevention #LGBTQHealth #CommunityCare #activism #GenderAffirmingCare #HealthcareSystems #QueerAdvocacy #HarmReduction #SexualHealth
Tags again:
#PublicHealth #HIVPrevention #LGBTQHealth #CommunityCare #activism #GenderAffirmingCare #HealthcareSystems #QueerAdvocacy #HarmReduction #SexualHealth
Tags again:
#PublicHealth #HIVPrevention #LGBTQHealth #CommunityCare #activism #GenderAffirmingCare
#HealthcareSystems #QueerAdvocacy #HarmReduction #SexualHealth
Recommended
Transcript
Introduction and Trust Issues with Government
00:00:00
Speaker
Somebody said to me, i don't trust you because you're in government. And i responded and I said, you should trust me the most because I'm in government because I don't trust it either. That's like the point that as you're feeling bullied, like this is the moment that you're going to persevere.
00:00:16
Speaker
And then in that perseverance, you will create a place where it's not safe for bullies to do this to people anymore. And so don't give up.
Guest Introduction: Dr. Dimitri Daskalakis
00:00:26
Speaker
Welcome to Power Beyond Pride. i am one of your hosts for the day, Maddie Bynum. having a great day. Wonderful. Sitting here in the studio, a great idea studio, and that with my co-host, Shane Lucas. Yes, I did say a great idea because this is fight.
00:00:42
Speaker
The Great Ideas. Thank you. And I'm Shane Lucas, lifelong heart reduction bodily autonomy activist, as well as the gayest man at your dream wedding. True facts. Now, we are your co-host, Maddie and i your co-host on today's QueerCast journey. And we have an incredibly special guest today here at the Great Ideas Studio. We're live. We are talking with the phenomenal Dr. Dimitri Daskalakis.
00:01:04
Speaker
And we are so excited for him to be here because in addition to being an infectious disease physician, he's been an flinching advocate for LGBTQ plus health and has also served in leadership of the CDC as well as in New York City. So again, incredible. He's leading the work to NHI.
00:01:18
Speaker
Now, I've been a huge fan. of Dr. Dimitri for a very long time because he's always a provocative but incredibly salient about the work that helps us rethink how we look at HIV prevention and treatment and just gay men's health and and queer health in general. And I think it's really powerful, including that around community care. So I want to welcome you to Power Beyond Pride, Dr. Dimitri Daskalakis, and how important and incredible it is but to have your to have your voice here in this particular moment, in this particular time in our culture. Well, thank you so much for having me. am' I am the most wonderful piece of meat in the sandwich.
Balancing Public Health Emergencies
00:01:54
Speaker
Dr. Dimitri, Dr. Sexy. hi
00:01:57
Speaker
who And I'm gonna say your name a hundred times. you just so i yeah say it so good i yeah i drink how lab because I was like, if you put one more medical term in his, and yes, we know, we know. but Well, ah your bio is so many things. How do you narrow down for a sniffy's end? Like how do you how do you narrow how do you narrow that down?
00:02:18
Speaker
I think you're public health daddy. Public health daddy. There we go. Public health daddy. Who's your daddy? Public health daddy. All right. I like that. Simple.
00:02:29
Speaker
Perfect. PH daddy. I love it. I love it. OK, so our first question is going to be, so you stepped into the national leadership at the CDC to continue the trajectory of ending HIV during one of the most intense public health periods in modern history. What was it like balancing multiple public health emergencies at the same time? Yeah, I think it's such a good question. The hard part is like we actually probably didn't balance some of the emergencies at the same time, right? So that's like the market we just have to be really frank about. When I started in New York City Department of Health, it was in an era where we got like a huge amount of funding from the city and the state. And The story is that they were going to give us like 13, 14 million dollars. And then one day they said, we're going double that to end the HIV epidemic.
00:03:15
Speaker
But you have a day to figure out what you're going to do with the other 13 million dollars. And so it was like a dream come true. Yeah. Right. So it was like, let's do all the things that we could never do. Like we made a program that supported Yeah, transgender health organizations to be able to actually grow. And one of them, Destination Tomorrow, one of my favorite organizations that I got to work with, went from a very small organization to a really big one and then even started working in Atlanta where I used to live. So it was great. And then like things like a crystal meth program and all of that, things that we didn't have in New York. And so everything was going great. The the people were doing better with HIV. The numbers were getting better, like viral suppression. The amount of people who were healthy with HIV was going up and up. And then COVID hit. And that was like, and just through cold water on the whole thing, because everyone's attention had to be on the pandemic. And so so that
Building Alternative Health Systems
00:04:07
Speaker
was hard. And so going to CDC,
00:04:10
Speaker
And leading the HIV work was like about trying to, know, bring that emphasis back, even in the story of all of the, frankly, national public health emergency that was happening. And so I was able to do that for a while. I wasn't in that space very long because they pulled me right out of HIV into COVID because you apparently I'm good at that. this stuff So they pulled me into that space. And so it it really has, I think, been a struggle to make sure that we continue the same drumbeat and emphasis on HIV treatment and prevention.
00:04:40
Speaker
I love that. No, I appreciate that. And and Destination Tomorrow is an amazing program. We had our guest, Dominique Jackson, got won some of her early work in community organizing through Destination Tomorrow. And I know you and her have a have a history as well. Yeah. Shout out, Dominique. I mean, I love her so much. I mean, I think we've got great pictures at a gala that we went to recently together. or we were in the same gala, but we we looked like we were prom dates. in fact That would be a great prom date. i so Just tall, sexual, air gorgeous, little hood, and like the loveliest human in the world. yes yes i met I met Dominique bre when she was doing outreach to the HIV space. I'm never going to forget. She had like her autobiography that she self-published that she was selling out of the back of her car. And she's like,
00:05:23
Speaker
do you want to do you want this? And I was like, of course. And I still have it at my house. And I look at it's got like her signature with the heart and like her phone number. And we've been friends ever since. And so huge shout out to Dominique. A big fan society here. So we we we love her and we we appreciate all the work that you've done in the work that you've done. You've made a very public statement about why you left the CDC. Yeah. We were we were so excited to see you there and it was important what that you're
Impact and Importance of Gender-Affirming Care
00:05:48
Speaker
doing. And then with the ascension of our K junior, basically, it feels like public health has now been more political than ever. Yeah. Right. So you've been vocal about what the anti-science approach means for public health and guidance and vaccines. And I feel like beyond that. Yeah. fully
00:06:01
Speaker
so Should queer people be looking at alternative systems for or like local health networks or other strategies for info because CDC decisions feel like violence to trans and queer people? Yeah, I mean, it it hurts me to say it. In the era where the organization is being silenced at best and weaponized at worst, I think it's not a credible source of information for most of our community. And so I think that what you really, what happens is that we need to look to the community
00:06:32
Speaker
to protect the community. Right. And so that means whether it's the medical providers or community organizations, local health jurisdictions, I think that the thing that we're seeing is that even though and it would have been easier to not have to do it, like we have to be the people that differentiate the signal from the noise, like the truth from just what's not true. And so it's a lot more work and it's hard, but it's, I think, muscle memory. We're familiar. We've been there, done that in the LGBTQ community. And so I think we're there again. and so I'm going to say probably the answer is you can't really trust what's coming out of the federal government, especially when they're trying to erase your community. yeah And so, like you know, we're seeing...
00:07:13
Speaker
surveillance information, like the data that we need to understand what's happening with diseases have like gender identity or race and all this stuff. And so if you can't trust part of it, you probably can't trust all of it. And so look to your doctors, look to your clinicians, your community run organizations to really help you navigate.
00:07:29
Speaker
Should we be creating something different? Should we be looking to, again, as somebody who, like you, started doing a lot of activist work in the 1990s, when there was a need to look outside of existing systems, yeah should queer people be looking to construct systems? Yeah, i I think one of the things in my in my work, i I made lots of different families I had my family in HIV, my family LGBTQ health, and now I have this family in vaccine. Like I said, who would have thought that the guy who used to go to bathhouses and do HIV testing would be friends with all the pediatricians in the country? But purely, right?
00:08:02
Speaker
It makes great sense. Yeah, here we are. yeah And so, so I look to them because the attacks on vaccines have been so substantial that what they're doing now is creating these new systems of looking at the data and communicating information in a way that I think that the LGBTQ folks and queer health folks need to be inspired by. Like we need our own like council of elders, of people that can sort of review what's happening and give us good guidance that are, that's independent of the federal government
Dr. Dimitri's Journey and Influences
00:08:33
Speaker
because Again, if they're trying to like erase or destroy you in terms of a community, it's going to be hard to believe that they've got your best interests at heart.
00:08:42
Speaker
100%. So I have a question. I want to piggyback off. Yeah. Okay. So when we talk about communities and talk about people being eliminated, we think about a lot of gender affirming care. Yeah. Okay. so yes or no. That's all I need you do. just need you answer. You know want me to keep talking just for yes or no? No, just for right now. Just for right now.
00:09:02
Speaker
Little blue pills for old white men who can't keep their dick hard. Gender affirming care, yes or no? Yes. Okay. Breast and plants for women who don't have full coverage. Gender affirming care?
00:09:12
Speaker
Yes. Okay. What about if a man gets a hair transplant like Donald Trump? Is that gender affirming care? I have booked my trip to Turkey. Yes. Okay. And also, too, if a person is on hormone replacement therapy, be going through menopause? Okay.
00:09:29
Speaker
Gender-affirming care. Also, if you are on hormone hormone replacement therapy and you are transitioning, would that not be considered gender-affirming care? All of the above. it's very safe to say that gender-affirming care is not just the LGBTQ plus community. That's 100%. So if we get rid of gender-affirming care, it's not just us that's going to get hurt. Yeah.
00:09:49
Speaker
It's everybody. There's going to be a lot of limp white men. You heard it first here. Look here. Thank you. should and say yeah Affirming character. No, again, really, really. But you know what you're hitting on those really important, right? Because it is a a weaponization of so much conversation around, you know, what they what they're really trying to do is, again, create a a transphobic environment. Yes. And that's polluting any actual public health conversations, right? Yeah. Because it is taking this idea that like we could come across another pandemic. We could come across another public health emergency. And they now politicize all these spaces to conflate different relationships that are that are really built on bias, that are built on prejudice, and basically start to have people tap out from from from from listening yeah to this stuff. Because you can you could tell. And that goes from across our communities, our Latina community members, and other community members who feel like they are being targeted by a lot of these systems. No, 100%. I mean, i think that the challenge is going to be that sort of the destabilization that they've done to public health, the the attack on vaccines, the attack on on just health care. I mean, let's just be frank. Like what they're really doing is they're trying to create a a rift between like medicine and the people that we take care of.
00:11:00
Speaker
And they're trying to insert in between us a bunch of of wellness grifters that are promoting things that have no data and no evidence in a system that doesn't have any regulation. There's just going to mean money in the bank. And so like what we need to do is like people who receive care as well as people that give care is say that that is a bunch of garbage.
00:11:20
Speaker
And just be very clear that like when you have a Get ready. Surgeon General candidate that is being discussed, who doesn't have a medical license, has never practiced, and would rather sell you vitamins than than than than remind you how important vaccinations are. We need to have people like us, my Council of Elders, are the people who say, that is a bunch of bull. And don't believe it. And here's why. I think that that that is sort of where we are. And the problem is that the damage that's happened to the system. So, yeah, maybe they're trying to make you feel like you shouldn't, that you shouldn't vaccinate your kids. But like that permeates everything. What the hell is going to happen if we have another thing where we need to have a mass vaccination campaign in the country and you have like ah ah some percentage of the country that says vaccines don't work or vaccines are evil? This is highly problematic. 100%.
00:12:13
Speaker
hundred percent Well, it's how you weaponize the medical system. Yeah, which is why we learned it's so easy to do. Yes, very much so. So easy to do. Sadly. Okay, so but I do want to go back to before you became Dr. Dimitri. Yeah. How did miniature, I can't say little because you were never really little. You've always been a big. Always a giant. Yes. So how did mini Dimitri become Dr. Dimitri today? Yeah. so I had no one around me who was a doctor. But so I would have to attribute the beginning of my ascent into the giant.
00:12:46
Speaker
Yes. That I have today. Giant. Just get over here. They had to turn for that one. that had to be that my parents got me a Fisher Price doctor's kit. Okay. Okay. And that was my first thing where I was like, I want to do this. And I remember people used to come into my house to visit my parents and I would walk up with my doctor's kid and say, I want to take your blood pressure and your temperature. And if they said no, I would give them their coats and say, well, you have to leave again.
00:13:10
Speaker
That is not informed consent. And that's not the best option. But I was not yet. I was just a wee lad. Like I didn't know about her. loved you as a kid though. I was like, was cursnickety. But definitely that's how it started. And then i like started doing the things that you do to do, to get into medicine. So I ended up going to college in New York and I was pre-med, but also I was a biology and religion double major.
00:13:36
Speaker
And the yeah, that's fun. It's an interesting combination. It was. It was really good. And and so when I was in New York, I i moved to New York in 1991, and like i was a ah baby gay. And i landed there and it was like, oh my God, it's crazy here. And started going out in the clubs and the underground and all of that stuff. And I would literally meet people and and get to know them. And then I wouldn't see them anymore.
00:14:03
Speaker
And they wouldd end up being admitted to Bellevue or St. Vincent's. And then I would find out that they were either very sick or they passed away. And so it went from this abstract thing, I want to be a doctor, just more real. And then I like helped run a big AIDS memorial quilt display. And know there, i i saw the people that were coming for the quilt that were so sick. I remember sort of standing like on college walk at Columbia and deciding there that like my mission My North Star was going to be to make sure that people didn't get or suffer from that, from HIV anymore.
00:14:37
Speaker
And so my whole career launched from there. That's beautiful. Yeah.
Activism and Community Solidarity
00:14:42
Speaker
That is powerful. And I can't imagine in that era, I'm assuming you were with glow sticks if you were out there doing the clubbing and all that. So a New York City club kid was platform shoes. How about the same thing? That was like after, that was like the raver era came, that kind of raver was after my kind of raver. My kind of raver was club kid raver. But I do love this conversation, but we do have to take a quick light. But when we do come back, we do want have it because there's someone that you know or that you actually came in contact with during the quilt situation. I definitely want hear that story. Yeah, great. We'll be right back here at Power of Y'all Pride.
00:15:23
Speaker
Welcome back. This is Power Beyond Pride, a queer change-making podcast, and I have to look at the card to figure out who I am. Shane Lucas, and I am here with my amazing and beautiful car. Oh, yeah. And we are talking with Dr. Dimitri Daskalakis, who is Dimitri, or how do we call him? Dr. Sexy Daddy? Or Dr. Sugar Pan. No, but Sugar Bridges. We have been coming up with a variety of varying names, all of which we will just have to look at.
00:15:47
Speaker
And what I've learned is I answer to all of them. You answer it to all of them. And we're so glad you're here joining us today. And each one has a different answer. And each one. Oh, yeah. Oh, that's interesting. I like that answer. That's good. Okay. All right. Well, there we go. You were before break. You were sharing um a bit about your history and and yeah how you got to to be the Dr. Demetri Doughty that you are today and all that. I want to go back a little bit to the story around the quilt, which is, again, yeah it sounds like a really pivotal moment in your own history. yeah And I'd love to hear a little bit about that journey because, again, having done outreach also in the 90s and having had experienced some of what that what that what what the experience was where we were talking about a conversation that was still very fresh, very new, where we're dealing with many people who were in early stages of just combating a recent diagnosis. What was that what was that experience like with the quilt? Can you go through a little bit more detail? Yeah. I mean, it was it was one of the pivotal moments sort of in my life and ultimately sort of set that north star in my career.
00:16:42
Speaker
so I remember it starts from before the actual display of the quilt on campus. And we had to but go to San Francisco to the Names Project, which is who ran the quilt to the warehouse because they were going to show us the parts of the quilt we were going to get and just getting us ready for the display. And we were able to bring ah a piece of the quilt back. as a promotion to show that we were bringing it. And so it was walking into that warehouse. It was like this giant teak wood room.
00:17:12
Speaker
And it was like, I just remember it being like very climate controlled. Like it was, it was chilly. And all of these pieces of quilt were rolled up in these like shrouds. And so it was like an eerie moment. so that was that heavy and alone It was heavy, but you were just like, wow this is actually so many people have died.
00:17:31
Speaker
and like this whole warehouse is full of these like rolls of cloth that represent them. And they just had this feeling of... I'm just the weight of it was great.
00:17:42
Speaker
But so I, and we got to take one piece back. And so they, they gave me one of the quilts that included Ryan White on it. And so they rolled it up in one of the shrouds and they gave it to me. And then I had to fly back to New York and everyone was like, oh, you should check it. And I was like, I can't check this. I can't be like, oh, we're just going to check it and I'll pick it up on the carousel. So was like walking you yeah around like the airport in San Francisco, like crying,
00:18:07
Speaker
Wasn't going to be the last time. But anyway, like walking around San Francisco let airport crying because I had this thing on my back that was just crazy. And I'm never forgetting that that moment. And then seeing the quilt on the ground. And like I said, those folks coming in who are so sick. It's just that's what, like I said, it's set that North Star. It's like, if I'm going to do this doctor thing, it's going to be to make sure that this doesn't happen to people.
00:18:30
Speaker
Well, thank you. And I definitely get that. at Yeah, that's a beautiful story. Yeah. I know when I first found out about Ryan White, just learning about the foundation and learning about who he was, it was just one of those things where I was like, yeah, there's so many people in our past. And this is the thing that we also have to remember is history repeats itself. Yeah. Because we talk about medical things now and we talk about ah different things that are going on in our world, but we have to pay attention that when a community is marginalized,
00:18:56
Speaker
no matter what community it is, it's always going to affect the next person next to you. yeah In the 90s, it was the AIDS epidemic. And I remember growing up about Philadelphia, movie, and just knowing people who, and it was so funny because I remember being at a point at 13, and there was a person that went to church with me, and he had AIDS. I never knew he had AIDS until one day he just stopped coming to church. And I was just like, hey have you seen Mr. So-and-so? I remember my aunt was like, yeah, he's sick. And I was like, okay, cool. Like, but it's going to be okay. And she was like, he has... And I was like, he has what? And she was like, he has... And I'm like, well, why are we whispering it? It's just you and me in the car. And she was like, well, we don't talk about homosexual things. And I'm like, again, why are we whispering it? yeah
00:19:43
Speaker
Because if it affects one person, affects all of us. So the thing that it really bothers me, especially now with like medical issues that are going on, is geared towards trans people. But I need people to understand that... This has been happening many, many years. Like, we we targeted Black people. Now we're targeting trans. Now we're targeting immigrants. We're targeting so many people. So it's very important, and I know you talk about this a lot, too, about standing as an ally, standing as people, because yeah you may not be ah generally or you may not be directly affected by HIV, syphilis.
00:20:20
Speaker
STDs or STIs. You may not even be affected generally in a sense where you may not know someone who is gay, which I think that's a lie because everybody knows at least one of the gay people. just going to honest. Either they're lying to you or you're lying to yourself. A very unattractive house. I'm just being honest. But seriously, I think that this is a season where we need to stand together. Yeah, no, I think that's right.
00:20:43
Speaker
i think think your point of history repeats itself is really important because, again, this is a familiar, this is not unfamiliar territory that we're in right now. And I think I keep calling it muscle memory. Like, we have the muscle memory to know how to respond to this and how to react because we've kind of been through erasure and and and communities being downtrodden being Folks being told they're not worthy of the care that they deserve. That's like, that is like an experience in the LGBTQ community that we've had before. And I think we know, we know what needs to
Addressing Queer Sexual Experiences in Public Health
00:21:18
Speaker
happen.
00:21:18
Speaker
Absolutely. And I think it brings me to my next question, which is really, I really, I want to talk to you about parks. Yeah. desire So I want to talk to you about parks. I love them. I love them. Who doesn't love a good park? I don't know. I'm still trying to find a correlation of how that brought him to parks. Because we're going to get there. Because people. Because history repeats itself. Because history repeats itself. So people are still having sex in them, which I think is, is this, is, I guess it's fine. i I studied it in college. I wrote my honors thesis on public sex and I was an outreach professional. It's how I got my start in HIV prevention, was doing outreach professional in parks. And so I feel like right now the only conversation I get about gay sex is from heated rivalry or from prep ads. Right. And so, first of all, do you have a favorite park for sex?
00:21:59
Speaker
Yeah. ah The Ellipse at the White House. There we go. The Ellipse at the White House. So a hang out there. I'm sure you're going to get great quality training. The best trait ever. like be wise yeah and they my felt go ahead even like so i'm going question ah but no you know i Can queer activists ever get the public health system to talk about the sex they're actually having? and I think that's why this is important. You talk about history repeating itself. And there was a period in that era. And I'd love you to talk about your work in New York, really elevating conversations to talk about pleasure. Yeah. But then at the same time, we're stuck in a period where I feel like we're moving away from any of those conversations where we're we're not we're we're starting to suppress a lot of that. Yeah, I know. I think we're in that era, again, where we're doing euphemism, where rather than sort of like saying things overtly and very clearly because of the sort of political environment and the weirdness we live in, somehow we need to somehow bury it in words that don't necessarily reflect what we're what we're really saying. And I mean, again, like in the heated rivalry era where their ineffect was like, and God bless softcore porn on television. God bless. Yeah.
00:23:02
Speaker
It's good. It was a show. It was a show. Hockey players had great butts. Yes, they do. Mad teeth. Shout out, Counter Story, when we're talking. We see you. We see you. But I mean, I think in the era where you're, you have this like one thing where we're not able to talk about sex and sexuality, yet like the media is like all about like gay sex and like queer people. It's like this moment where you have to say, I'm really glad that you're enjoying Sibling Rival.
00:23:34
Speaker
Wait, that's me as a That's a whole different movie. But he did Rivalry. Like, you have to say, I'm glad you enjoy that. But, you know, you need to get up out of your seat and, like, actually support the communities that that that this is, like, an important part of their lives. I mean, like, being queer, your sexuality is an important part of your life. Like, sex is an important part of it. And so I think that that you can't you can't have just the chocolate and the peanut butter. You have to have the chocolate. I'll have the peanut butter, right? You've got to like be able to sort of have this thing in the media, but also realize that you need to support the communities by really giving us the option and the ability to talk about our sex lives in a way that ah that supports our joy.
00:24:15
Speaker
Well, I mean, I think fetishizing, that's the problem. We fetishize what we don't know, but we fetishize what we think about. Because I i say this to guys all the time. I'm not just a sex symbol and I'm not just a fetish. You know what saying? i want someone that's going to get him to know me for me. It's the same thing with...
00:24:31
Speaker
um What's the name of the show? Yeah. Hated Rivalry. Hated Rivalry. Look, I know it was a rivalry. I done seen it. It was kind of heated, though, for a second. Especially the one with the the the one that came out for his lover.
00:24:43
Speaker
Oh, yeah. few But it was anticlimactic because he didn't do nothing afterwards. i was expecting a gay wedding. Are you going to be the open NHL gay couple? It's a lot. Anyways, but... Maybe that's season two. Maybe that season. That's his if it gets picked That's if it gets picked And it becomes more like Bridezilla's gay hockey players.
00:25:03
Speaker
is But it's crazy. I think that's great. I'm telling you, I want some royalties on that. I'm going to throw that out there right now. I think my concern is around the saccharine quality of it. yeah I think my concern is that around the sanitized version of it, because I think that there is a fascination. Like you said, there's a sort of you want to watch this happen. That's great. At the same time, you have queer people's rights being removed. moved You have attacks on our trans community members. And so if you're going to be an advocate and you and you find this story valuable, then also remember that the human beings behind it are also valuable. And so as allies, like show up in these spaces, like show up in these political environments. right And that's what I fear is not happening. I fear and what we're seeing is ah as a repetition of history where i know you you've shared, Maddie, in the past around the 70s, the exploitations of black females. And and it was, like I said, it's just one of those things where you fetishize it, but then you diminish them in real life. yeah you You give them this platform to look beautiful, but then we're going to take your rights at the same time. So it's almost watch the left hand or the right hand so that you don't see what the left hand is doing. And I think that's some bullshit.
00:26:03
Speaker
yeah But I also want to go back
Community Outreach and Education
00:26:05
Speaker
to something you said earlier. You talked about he was a double major in religion. yeah So I'm interested to know, one, religion and science, how did that even go together? And two, does that play a part in your community outreach now? Yeah. Yeah, I mean, I i like came upon being a religion major kind of by accident. So again, i went to Columbia. I think I told you that that part of the story. but you know, Columbia, like I said, I think that they probably need to... little bit of a student child. I mean, let's say the name. How many times have they walked up? And so they they they did it. This show was brought to you by Columbia. In the city of New York.
00:26:40
Speaker
But so that university like has a core curriculum. So like I went there to be a science major and to be a pre-med. And then they had me take like humanities classes, like literature and humanities and contemporary civilizations. And you could take another class. And I decided to take a religion class. And I walked in. i was like, let me take Buddhism because i don't know anything about it. And i walked in and it was a ah class being taught by Robert Thurman, who is like the preeminent like scholar of Buddhism in the U.S.
00:27:08
Speaker
little best father. And it was yeah a great class. And I was like, wait a minute, I'm starting to understand about people's worldviews. This isn't just about like religion or a God or a scripture, but like I'm understanding a worldview better. And I totally fell in love with that. And like little baby,
00:27:26
Speaker
Dr. Dimitri, little baby Dr. Dimitri in the class was like, I should do more of this so I can understand people better so that it makes sense when I'm a doctor, I get to know more. And so that's why I did it. And I think that it influenced so much of like my work because like i I go to a community listening more than assuming yeah because that's like what you learn. in that in that training, in that sort of religion major, that you need to sort of understand a worldview, not by assuming things about it, but by listening. And now i got to tell you another good story. Like one of the like fun parts was at the end of this class, Dr. Thurman was like, oh, we're going to have a special guest. And I was like, oh, it's going to, what celebrity, is it going to be Uma?
00:28:13
Speaker
I mean, i many i feel will i this is like right and I was like, I want the red jumpsuit. Yeah, hell of it. Oh, well. or Yeah. Anyway, or either there's so many umas that I would have liked. to So then the door opens and it was the Dalai Lama walking around. And I was like, it was touching our heads and like laughing and being so sweet to us. And I was like, I don't know how I can't do this, this double major, because it's crazy how cool this is. That's what learned. Dalai Lama, I think I took my wig off. You can't have no wig on.
00:28:45
Speaker
It was just like this. My Dalai Lama inspired haircut. Thanks. love that. Okay, we are having way too much fun, but we do need to take a quick break. We still got to pay these bills. We still got to make sure we get our stuff together. So please stay tuned because when we come back, we will be talking everything from our doctors, the best patients to... We're going to be coming back with our speed round and we've got a question from one of our former guests.
00:29:16
Speaker
yeah and And I have a question about Doxytel. Okay, let's do it. all right. Right after this.
00:29:28
Speaker
Welcome back. This is Power Beyond Pride, a queer changemaking podcast. I am Shane Lucas. I'm here with my phenomenally beautiful and elegant co-host, Mattie Bynum. And we have with us really just a leader in community health guidance, just innovation, everything, Dr. Dimitri Daskalakis, who joins us a live here in the Great Ideas studio, which is wonderful, in Greensboro, North Carolina. Woo-hoo.
00:29:51
Speaker
where little young Dimitri got his Fisher-Price start. So shout out also again to Fisher-Price. Yeah. We'll give them a shout out. Okay, so Dr. Dimitri. Yes. In your current role at Callen-Lorde. Oh, I said correctly. You sure did. In New York, you are continuing to work closely with communities that have historically been underserved and ignored by healthcare systems. Yeah. What are your goals in this new role? Yeah, I mean, so First Cala Lord is the global leader in LGBTQ health. It's a community health center, but ah it finds its origins in the Stonewall riot. yes So it goes way back, deep to the roots of the movement.
00:30:29
Speaker
and ah And so my my goal there is like what the goal is of the actual community health center, which is to really continue to deliver on the mission, to make sure that we provide care to the LGBTQ population in New York. And for me, I come from doing like big public health. I also think that in this era, like being in big government, you don't get anything done because it's kind of stagnant. And I i like am so hungry to be at the at the grassroots again, to be able to sort of not only do it for the person and the patient in the room, but also to create the blueprint for how LGBTQ health is delivered in this country and the world.
00:31:06
Speaker
So I am obsessed with that place. It's amazing. I love you. Again, Callen-Lorde is a phenomenal organization. and it's named after Michael Callen and Audre Lorde. think that's important to note. Again, leaders just in queer liberation movement, change makers themselves. yeah And I think for me, incredibly powerful. Michael Callen's obviously a very famous for his writing around how to have sex in a pandemic. Yeah, that's like the original, the OG harm reductionist. Not the OG, right?
00:31:33
Speaker
Oh, absolutely. That's original gangster.
Inspiring Future Generations of Scientists
00:31:36
Speaker
Yes! The original, the original hard productionist. And then like Audre Lorde, just like such a powerhouse, like poet and andnna an essayist and a musician and advocate.
00:31:50
Speaker
essayist, poet, and advocate, and then you slam them together and make the most amazing community health center in the country. It's magical. i think it's I think it's brilliant because it's also really speaking into this moment about how public health and science really are part of the liberation movement. They are part of the work. And actually, that leads me to a question that we have from one of our former guests.
00:32:09
Speaker
Dr. Shun Zhe Zhao shared with us a question. In science, they're an amazing a person who's working on a lot of these issues, including around HIV. And so they sent in a great question, which is to say, as an educator, I train many young scientists and physician scientists. Some of them, particularly those from the LGBTQ community, feel discouraged by the current uncertainties around funding and research.
00:32:30
Speaker
From your experience, what can mentors and educators do to better support and encourage the next generation of queer and BIPOC scientists during these uncertain times? Yeah, I mean, I think it's important to start by recognizing the trauma, right? So this is a hard time. And so there's no way to sugarcoat it. The funding is wild. Our communities are being attacked. Some are being erased.
00:32:52
Speaker
but But our ability to engage in science and scientific discourse is activism. Right? so this is the moment where my advice is to hang on, educate yourself, do what you need to do to become that strong scientist so that you can be a part of the future. So right now it's hard, but what's going to happen is going through this persevering, although I'm not a big fan of the word resilience, like being resilient to make sure that we get you get to the other side means that you're going to be there to really be the the blueprint for science and for future scientists. So we need you now more than ever. Because there's going to be such a gap created because of the attack on science that that there's going to be a role for you and that that is leadership.
00:33:43
Speaker
You're going to have innovations, have new discoveries, change the way that medicine is done or any other part of science. And you're going to be the leader. And what you're going to do is make sure that this that's happening now never happens again.
00:33:56
Speaker
And so your leadership is so important. and So don't don't give up. And it's not going to be easy. No way to sugarcoat it. But there is a prize on the other side, which is that you're going to defend the communities that you love.
00:34:10
Speaker
You know, you said you don't like to wear resilience. I thought of while was talking was persistent. Yeah. Stay persistent. Stay consistent. better than resilient. I feel like one of the things that I think we do a lot, not just in LGBTQ space, but in public health and other places, is that we tell people to be resilient and they're asked to be resilient because the systems that are supposed to be resilient to support them fail. And so that's why I think persistence is an even better way of saying it. So don't give up, be persistent and demand a resilient system in the future that doesn't let this happen again. Or in a system that isn't trying to oppress or harm you. Right, you got to. Yeah, right like the system's strength is important, but also systems that are fundamentally built to to not help you thrive also need to be changed. So listen,
00:34:59
Speaker
Also need this. This real Dimitri coming. This ain't Dr. Dimitri. So when i I was a kid, like, I was relentlessly bullied. and And that was hard. And I i think at at at my, in my youth as a little baby, Dimitri decided that I really didn't like bullies. And so in this era where we're all being bullied, and yes I think make the choice that you don't like bullies and make sure that the space is one that is unsafe for bullies in the future.
00:35:28
Speaker
And so that is like the power that we have. And so like period. Change making. That's change making. So just like, I think that when you're being bullied, remember I have so many stories in high school that like, I just decided that instead of being bullied, I would be their class president and like be the editor of their yearbook. but And so that's kind of the thing that launched me in all these directions of leadership, which is actually, this is a good story. we have like that was good Somebody, somebody said to me,
00:35:56
Speaker
I don't trust you because you're in government. And I responded and I said, you should trust me the most because I'm in government because I don't trust it either. And so, right, that's right. So that's like the point that, that, that as you're feeling bullied, like this is the moment that you're going to persevere and then in that perseverance, you will create a place where it's not safe for bullies to do this to people anymore. And so, um Don't give up.
00:36:23
Speaker
Don't give up. yeah i Can I piggyback on that? I have question because you just said something that was really powerful to me because i i feel like one of the challenges that we have or in this current moment, I'd
Reimagining Government Systems for Inclusivity
00:36:32
Speaker
be curious your thoughts on this. Sure. That comment really sort of lives into this. We've positioned now the government. And now I remember growing up in the 80s in the Reagan era and there was this very anti-government sentiment. I think it's out of maybe the Nixon era and some of the other stuff. Like part of it, I think, is a reset about what the government is. The government is supposed to be a contract among our citizens, among all of our neighbors, yeah among all of our people, that there are things that we individually cannot do. I can't run a school district or get lights to move. So I want I want I want to work as a public contract. Right. sure These things are there altogether. But this anti-government sentiment, like that's the part I think that distrust in there that i I don't know if we've ever talked about what an imagination of ah of a system that worked looked like. Yeah. Do you think we're missing an imagination of what is possible because we're so busy critiquing what we have? Oh, yeah. So here's the... Okay.
00:37:18
Speaker
my glass answered off this one is Here's the deal. Teach. I feel like there is in public health so much effort to try to save systems.
00:37:31
Speaker
And we need to zoom out on this for a second and say, what are you actually saving? Right. If the thing is so easy to destroy and weaponize, then let it burn and figure out what the new thing is going to be. And so that I think needs to be stimulated from the community. And whether that means like more like local strength, more local dominion over the things that we do. with the federal government doing what it really should do, which is just to support the good work that's happening and on the ground, rather than to stymie it or to try to limit it. So we should think about not just salvaging, we should think about reinvention.
00:38:10
Speaker
And so that's, I feel really strongly that as you see things being destroyed, maybe that's our opportunity and that destruction is a religion major. And that destruction Yeah, get ready. That destruction defined creation. and so very often in a lot of religions, when they talk about like a destructive force, that destructive force is also the creative force. So we either can sort of lick our wounds and cry or say, okay, destroy it. We're going to build it stronger and better and like actually more responsive to the needs of people. And so that's in healthcare as well as in other parts of government. But now, okay, so here's my thing. yeah You said two things that traumatized me. Okay. and and and not and it And not what I was looking to do. But it's good to talk about trauma. Because, so here's my thing. When you say a new America, because I definitely agree, the system we have is screwed. It's demolished. So we do. But anytime someone says tearing down what we have and saying a new America, I always go back to the purge and think of the new founding fathers. And that's the trauma of the new America. statement because it's okay, that's cool, but where is your narrative? Like, to what is going to be your new? Because new for you may not be new for me. right
00:39:20
Speaker
And so we need to come together all the way because I do agree with you. I think at this point in game, there is no saving it. Yeah. I think this is one of those situations. Excuse me, God, but we need a good flood. I'm just going be honest. Well, what what should it have been saved? diana And I know we have to we're going to jump off into our kind of our speed round in a second. but and But I do think that the system never worked perfectly for everybody. And I think that's that we have to acknowledge that that was never the case. and what i What I guess I want to draw attention to, and I think what you said is...
00:39:48
Speaker
anti-government we've created this idea that the government isn't us right and i think that there's an opportunity for people to take back part of the government to run for offices to take us like you're doing to be in these spaces and say actually these systems aren't a away from me they are actually things that i have access to versus like corporations and other systems because don't worry about is we elevate corporations in the face of government and those we don't get to go in and run for office for those we don't get to control whereas government theoretically is a space in which we as yeah we we as neighbors and people can go into communities and take. So like I, i back back in the day, i used to think that there was like there was like three things that you would need to do good public health. And so I use public health as the example. So I would say that you need good science that was implementable, you needed political will, and you needed community engagement. And then I revised it based on my experience now, which is not just science and political will and not just engagement. What you need is community co-creation.
00:40:45
Speaker
And I think that that is sort of the place that answers the trauma, which is that as this thing is moving in a way that like it's not serving us anymore, like any activism that we do is going to be important in redesigning what the next thing is. And so I think that sort of conjuring Michael Callan and the Denver principles, like we need to be at the tables that are redesigning this.
Historical Activism and Its Influence Today
00:41:10
Speaker
And that is something that we just can't look at and say, we hope someday we're going to be at the table. This is going to take radical action to demand to yeah be at the table. And let me tell you, that's muscle memory for us. It is. now That is a hundred percent muscle memory. And so i I think that that's going to be what the call to action is. But then also because of my age, my senior age, I'm able to say this, but it's like my advanced years. Even i I think, was a little bit young for seeing the community that rose up against like the the tyranny that resulted in people dying because of HIV. I sort of saw the tail end of it. but let me tell you,
00:41:53
Speaker
it must feel like what we feel like today. And I'm like, I i realized that for for decades, I sort of thought of community and saw its avatar. And now I'm actually in community.
00:42:05
Speaker
It's kind of amazing because I'm like, wait, this is what it was like to be Mark Harrington and Peter Staley storming the FDA. Because I feel like we're storming the FDA again. and it's like, that's what needs to happen.
00:42:19
Speaker
and Let's do it. Let's do it. We need to do it. We need it for change. And then you're at the table. Yeah, no, I get you. And it's funny that you brought that up because when I think of that time of our our history, yeah it's funny how we think of it as the epidemics and the the pandemics that happened at that time. But i I always get lost in the ball scene. And I'm just sitting there thinking to myself, like...
00:42:41
Speaker
It may have been a bad time, but we felt such much freedom. Yes. Right. Beauty. Love. Right. Like community. So children, Paris is burning.
00:42:51
Speaker
Oh my God. Yes. Watch it. Oh my goodness. Because I just feel like that that was like in this terrible era of the world falling apart and it was just such beauty. Let me touch this skin, touch all of it. And I want to, know I want to, I want to, I want to take that beauty and move it to a whole nother beautiful level. If I may, because i obviously this conversation, it's been so great to spend time with you and talk about this policy and this important work. I want to move us to the next round of BME, which is this right learning more about you and your and your and your handsomeness. so Oh, my mom daughter sweet cheeks. that Well, you know, and I said that when we came back in. So let me say Dr. Ford. Oh, oh, Dr. Ford. So Dr. Ford, in my first question for the speed round, I think this is a good question. It's going a little lengthy, but it's worth it. Okay, ready.
00:43:44
Speaker
Everybody's having sex. What? What? they're not, we wouldn't be here. I'm serious. Everybody's having sex. But no, we talk so much about safe sex. How can you have fun, enjoyable sex and still stay safe? Yeah, i think I think that you need to think about all of the ways that you can prevent the stuff that interferes with you having a lovely sex life, right? Yeah. So, i mean, I think, I mean, I'll come at it from the infectious disease perspective, which is HIV and STIs and sexually transmitted infections were things that really made sex, like, full of of fear and worry.
00:44:16
Speaker
Now we have this giant toolkit of ways that you can prevent those things. So if you want to do things that maybe don't expose you to STIs, in the park, a little jerk and tug and say, oh,
00:44:27
Speaker
That's the name of our new band, by the way. We're Jerk and Tug. I'm Jerk. That's Tug. I'm Tug. And that's the episode I'll be serving in later. But okay. So there's like that. But then if you want to have sex that could potentially expose you to stuff, you've got like, you can take a pill a day to prevent HIV. If you don't want to take a pill a day, depending on like your circumstance, you can do it. You can do like 2-1-1 prep or prep on demand, which is take a couple of pills before sex and then a pill a day for the couple days after. That prevents it too. You're like, I don't like pills at all. There's injections that can make me. There you go. You also, for upper STIs, you can use doxypap, which is antibiotics that you can take after sex and it prevents gonorrhea.
00:45:12
Speaker
Not as great, but chlamydia and syphilis pretty well. And it works. Is there any, just a side note on that, is there any concern around what they consider but bacterial resistance or anything around antibiotics? resistance? Yeah. So this is when it's really fun not to be in government and to just be like an activist physician and say, people prescribe doxycycline, which is the drug that you use for ah doxypap, all the time for people's zits. And people will take it for their zits for a long time. And not one word about the fact that there could be resistance because of taking it for zits. But everyone is worried about resistance when you're taking it to prevent infections that you can get through gay sex.
00:45:47
Speaker
So let's face it, like it's always been a problem. And so if it is a problem, that's great. But STI is an emergency. And so let's use doxypep as for the emergency and take care of the rates of of STIs in the country.
00:45:59
Speaker
Sounds like a great strategy. Thank you for just saying it's a definitely one that comes up. But this comes up to if you've ever been around me for a minute, cookies or cake. Totally cake. Oh, and yes. Yes. yeah And mainly frosting.
00:46:12
Speaker
I don't understand the most disgusting Costco frosting. Buttercream and Chattagazza. yeah So it's so sweet that when you eat the frosting, it crunches. Oh, I'd say i like that initial crunch, but then I can only have two or three bites and it's out. So no. Listen. only reason I go to bottom showers and baby showers. Listen.
00:46:34
Speaker
Tosco cake, the one with the frosting balloon on it. You don't have to eat the cake. you can just scoop the red balloon up and eat the frosting. Shane, you may not understand this, but I will go to a party and if they have the cake with the cool advice, then I'll be pissed off. and like Why'd you invite me? No. I done sat through whole damn party and you gonna give me cool advice? Then, bitch, I'm fat.
00:46:53
Speaker
I want real butter and cream. I'll know now know that for the future. So the simple answer to your question is cake. Cake. Cake, cake, cake, cake. Okay. So while we're staying on cake. Oh boy. What is your favorite guilty pleasure TV show?
00:47:08
Speaker
Okay. Here goes. I... love The Real Housewives of Salt Lake City. I'm not going to do it. I'm not going to do it. No, no, no, no, no. Okay, so what?
00:47:19
Speaker
Prior to us recording, we had a discussion about this, and I jumped all over Dr. Sugarbushes over here, okay? Because i love Salt Lake City. There is nothing like those ladies going at it that I've ever seen that I love more. I'd like to add you, because we have, I have two cousins and a best friend. and We call every Monday or every Tuesday and have conversations about yeah Housewives of Salt Lake City. Like, I promise you, no, like, it all the Housewives franchises are okay, but Salt Lake City is truly the sense up here.
00:47:53
Speaker
Atlanta was my entry drug. Yes, it was. It was the one that brought me a bug. Yes, it was. Shout out to Kandi Burris. Like, love her. Me-me all day. Totally. Like, the entry drive. Yeah. And Salt Lake City happened. I mean, you got espionage. You got people going to jail for embezzling. And you got people mad because I got a Cartier watch. It is. Your husband's got gout, Nick. Oh, my God. Yeah. Oh my, it's so the secret circle jerks.
00:48:24
Speaker
Oh God, you got, and what you would do to get tickets for basketball. Right. Now you, now you' man you got at the was yeah i want to move on you but but yeah you're. have
00:48:40
Speaker
ah i know i mean I do have to say this real quick before we move on. In honor of Mary, because we yeah we so we're talking about it. yeah One of the ladies on Salt Lake City Housewives, Mary, what's her? I can't think of her last name. Crosby. Crosby. son i committed suicide actually last month. So we definitely want to die. Very sad. want to silence for her. That is very sad. i Now I'm afraid to ask my next question, which is not ah it's not a very fun... It's it's really a what what that's but well moment of silence for that. And then we're going to go to one phone number you won't delete, but know you should.
00:49:11
Speaker
Okay. Let's see ah Better not be mine. I don't have your phone number yet. You will have this. See, I knew it. ah i That's what i'm not going to delete.
00:49:25
Speaker
We're good. You got it. So... So I feel like I think that i have a mentor. This is who I passed away. And I still have like emails from the mentor as well as as ah the phone number. And so I should delete it because I'm not using it, but I won't. That's beautiful. That makes sense. I won't say nothing else. Mainly because the phone numbers that I should delete, I'm really good at deleting.
00:49:49
Speaker
You can take that to me whatever you want. Like I told you earlier, I just changed my number. Yeah. I'm over it. I on. tell I contact the people that need to know. that didn't so That's cool. Really being in control.
00:50:03
Speaker
You're like, number what number? Exactly. I'm a little. You're not going to keep calling me. Okay, so last question for me. I will say, and this is a doctor's orders to everybody, so please listen to this question. Yes. What's one thing everyone listening and watching us should do for their health this week?
00:50:20
Speaker
So I just saw a patient that this came up, like someone came in at Cal and Lord looking for a doctor's note to doctor's form to be pulled out and they hadn't been there for primary care for a while. And so part of the conversation is we'd love to do all the primary care and and they weren't able to stay, but they scheduled an appointment to come back. But so that I think is the thing that everyone should do is like, just think about, am I up to date? yeah have i Have I seen, have I done my like annual physical, the routine thing that I need to do because so much work gets done there. I mean, like I drive a car and whenever my car like has a little symbol thing that says, Demetri, it's time for your maintenance, but maybe we remind them that this is the reminder. Let's check to see when the last time. he hit you a ya You got it. Do your primary care.
00:51:02
Speaker
Love that. Vaccines, prevention, all of it. What does Power Beyond Pride mean to you? It's a great name. So number one, so I think that when I think about pride, that's like something that is like rainbow flies and sometimes corporate America. And what we sometimes forget is that what is the foundation of pride is the power of our community and the fact that we are survivors in the most amazing way. And that power is really the source, the root from which all of the pride comes in. And like when you think about our community, I think that there is like a little narrow band between
00:51:37
Speaker
power and joy. and so I think that that all interplays to, you know, do exactly that power beyond pride. Love it. Joy is dissent. i love it. I love it. Joy is powered. I love that. That's beautiful. Thank you so much for being here today. It just means the world to have you here, to share your expertise, to to to just hear your stories, but also your insights about where we are in this world. So thank you. Yes, Dr. Dick. Thank you. All right. Look here, haven't had a good time with you today. So I do have a quick question for you. Where can people meet you and get to know you yeah and things about you? I feel like the best one is my best social media is Dr. Dimitri on Instagram. And so that's D-R like doctor and my name, which is D-E-M-E-T-R-E. It's a great blend of shirtless pictures and public health.
00:52:22
Speaker
and really I am the gateway to OnlyFans, I think, is my guess. Listen, never say never. Never And we could also follow Callan Lorde as well. and theyre Yeah. so we encourage Oh, wait. o One big plug. A plug. yes A plug.
00:52:40
Speaker
Not that out that kind of plug. One big one is bill we if you're a medical provider, a nurse, a doctor, a nurse practitioner, or if you're a social worker, Calvin Lord is hiring. So that's C-A-L-L-E-N slash L-O-R-D-E dot O-R-G. Look at our job opportunities and come on, come to New York.
00:52:59
Speaker
And also you can look directly at our web page. We'll have a link to our... PowerBeyondPride.com? Yes. PowerBeyond... Yeah, that place. That one. Yes. And on that note, I am one of your amazing co-hosts here at the RBR Pride Show, Maddie Bino. I love doing what I do. Have a great time all the time with you. We're welcome to follow you. Please don't follow me. Look at it. oh i am I promise you, you get scared sometimes, but you can come and view me. Yes. And Instagram, Maddie Simone 737, and also at Facebook, Maddie Bino.
00:53:31
Speaker
And I am your co-host Shane Lucas, and I'm the out of a great idea, a lifelong harm reductionist and bodily autonomy activist. You can follow me at shanelucas.com. I could not be more grateful again to be in community here and having these conversations. Remember to subscribe and get your friends to subscribe to Power Beyond Pride on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. And check us out on PoweredBeyondPride.com. And Power Beyond Pride is a project of a great idea, a queer-owned design and content agency. So learn more about them at agreatidea.com.
00:54:00
Speaker
And what else do we have that? Oh, we are part of the podcast on Co-host team. but I should know this. Maddie and I, we are part of many co-hosts across the country. So we invite you to join. us Send your questions and comments at powerbeyondpride.com.
00:54:12
Speaker
And this episode is produced by the one and only Shane Lucas. It was developed by me, Maddie Bynum. And we have two of the best editors, Jared Redding and Ian Wilson. Thank y'all. We couldn't do it without you. You can check out new episodes each week. Yes, we do. We do love art with we do love you, both Ian and Jared. Check out our new episodes each week. And we look forward to queer change-making with you next time. Thank you, Dimitri, for joining us. And thank you for joining us at Power Beyond Pride.