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Reply All: Courts, Protests, and Power #48
52 Plays1 month ago
In this Reply All episode, Shane, Kenyon, and Mattie move from breaking news into the personal stakes behind it—what it feels like to live inside systems that can shift overnight. They celebrate a federal court block protecting access to gender-affirming care for trans youth, while naming how fragile “wins” can feel when other rulings and policies move in the opposite direction. The conversation turns toward what protest can (and can’t) do, and what it takes to build power beyond showing up. From there, they explore how comfort with solitude can shape loyalty in relationships, and how wealth and gender presentation can change someone’s experience inside queer spaces. The episode closes with a listener question about dating someone “not into politics,” and the co-hosts unpack why that can signal privilege, disconnection, or simply a mismatch in values.
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Transcript
Introduction & Host Backgrounds
00:00:00
Speaker
I love that the court blocks this, right? That they block it and make sure that we are able to provide gender-affirming care for trans youth. But at the end of the day, like, we are depending on a very shoestring kind of courts. And we're really looking to the court to be that salvation because certainly the legislature the legislature is not. And certainly the executive branch is not going to do anything good, right? So we're really dependent on A very fractured court system, too, that that I think is going to double back on itself multiple times. and we're going to end up back in, again, these sort of federal and Supreme Court conversation.
00:00:35
Speaker
Hello and welcome to Power Beyond Pride, a weekly queer change making podcast bringing you voices and ideas from across our fierce and fabulous spectrum to transform our world.
00:00:46
Speaker
I'm Kenyon. I'm a writer, activist, communication strategist, and I'm super happy to be here. And I'm Shane Lucas, and I'm so proud to be here with you, Kenyon. I am a lifelong harm reductionist, owner of a great idea, troublemaker, ginger rocket, and roller derby queen in aspiration.
00:01:05
Speaker
Well, Kenyan kind of set the standard. Made me feel like I was at like a work conference with the... ground I'm glad to be here. I'm Maddie Bynum and I'm glad to be here as well, but no.
00:01:16
Speaker
i am I am your hostess with the mostest. I am an actress, singer, comedian. Well, actually, I'm not a singer. I'm a singer in the shower because i do not sing in public. But I do like to riff a good Whitney every now and then. So, which Whitney, of course, I will always love you.
00:01:34
Speaker
And what's my other one I was singing other day? i just want to dance with somebody. Oh, classics, classics. classic i had My name is not Susan stuck in my head the other day and I cannot explain to you why, but it was there.
00:01:47
Speaker
Are you a Susan at heart? No, I don't, I can't explain it, but you know, Whitney, we miss you. You are. And apparently we're vibing in some Whitney.
00:01:57
Speaker
So there we go. All right.
Protest Movements & Solidarity
00:02:00
Speaker
Well, I would like to kick off the show. We typically start our show with what's hot and what's going on. And we always go straight into politics, but I wanted to start it off with politics again.
00:02:11
Speaker
Yay. But this time on a light note, first off, let's just take time to reference this past weekend. We had another round of No Kings protests and i was interested to see all the people that came out in solidarity and standing together, even internationally. There was a lot of international No Kings protests this weekend. So...
00:02:32
Speaker
That let me know that we all hate the same person and we all really would like the same person to be gone. So we can all come together on that. Don't you think? I'm here for collective action. i think it's- Yeah, absolutely. but mean, why not? And then also, too, well, let's talk about this. We can also be happy about the fact of this past week, a Michigan AG, Dana Nessel, I think I'm saying her name correctly, and a coalition of 21 other states and the District of Columbia have secured federal court order blocking the Trump administration from pressuring health care providers to stop providing care for transgender youth. So that's a win.
00:03:14
Speaker
That's a win. It may not be the win that we want, but it's a win, right? Yes, we'll take it. And I think it i think it's great. to be So let me ask this question.
Civil Rights Progress & Challenges
00:03:26
Speaker
Do y'all think that we are in an upswing winning or do you think that we are in a situation where we're getting just enough, but we're not meeting tomorrow?
00:03:37
Speaker
I think, yeah, it's a mixed bag. I mean, I do think that we're we're fighting, right? So this this is a is a win and that you just mentioned. but but and also, I think the the No Kings ah rallies are are a win, although there's a lot of debate about what's the point, why we doing this? And I think, actually, and talked to a friend of mine, white queer woman friend of mine in Wyoming, who for the No Kings protest, said there were 22 people rallies in Wyoming that happened this past Saturday. And so if so, yeah, if you're in New York, D.C., L.A., the big blue bubble cities, it may not seem like something to you. But I think where we're seeing this turnout happen in places where there is no turnout usually for anything, I think is important.
00:04:27
Speaker
But aside I think those things are are such ah wins. I think, though, so when we're it's like it's almost like one step forward, two steps back. Right. So the the win that you just named, right, about ah trans youth yeah and getting health and health providers providing care to them. But then we also have the Supreme Court say that conversion therapy is totally OK ah with only one dissent. Shout out to Supreme Court Justice Kataji Brown Jackson for that dissent.
00:04:56
Speaker
And so I do feel like we are fighting, but i there's so much just colossally wrong all at the same time that it feels like like a real sludge uphill. So I think i think it'll be a while before i feel like, okay, we're really riding the ship here.
Activism & Systemic Change
00:05:15
Speaker
but i But I do think we're fighting.
00:05:17
Speaker
Yeah, and I think especially we're recording this on Transgender Day of Visibility. So it has never been more important that we are elevating the contributions, the existence that our neighbors of trans experience all across our communities and just how important it is that we honor that the the inclusive humanity that needs to be present across our system. And yet, this is where the challenge to me comes is that, yeah, these demonstrations are great. i'm not I'm for any advocacy that where people are willing to put their bodies, they're theirre their person in a space and talk about a point of dissent.
00:05:54
Speaker
But I really wrestle with, I don't think they care. I think that the challenge is that a lot of the untethering has been done from systems at which there's oversight or accountability. And it's easy to miss those simply because they were quiet. They were weirdly worded legislation with a lot of Swiss cheese holes in it that they've taken advantage of and other systems. So yeah, I love that the court blocks this, right? That they block it and make sure that we are able to provide gender-affirming care for trans youth.
00:06:27
Speaker
But at the end of the day, like, we are depending on a very shoestring, i don't know if that's the right metaphor, but shoestring kind of courts because so many have been packed and so many have been overloaded with the previous Trump administration as well as this one.
00:06:41
Speaker
that it's gonna be, i think it's gonna be hit and miss to Kenyon's point about what kind of rulings we're gonna get that are gonna be in our favor. And we're really looking to the court to be that salvation because certainly the legislature is not, and certainly the executive branch is not gonna do anything good, right? So we're really dependent on a very fractured court system too that that I think is gonna double back on itself multiple times and we're gonna end up back in, again, these sort of federal and Supreme Court conversations. So I love that people are out there. I love that. And I do think that there is a conversation, to Kenyon's point, what is the next step? Like we learned, i hope we learned, we should have learned from the first civil rights movement, maybe first is not the right word, but the 1960s and 70s civil rights movements
00:07:23
Speaker
on what it means to show up in spaces versus what it means to force hands of power to make negotiations. They're not the same thing. Like the appearance of dissent is really important. It's good to show that Americans are there. However, the real work was done through boycotts. The real work was done through other tenants of the system that essentially forced the hand of enterprise and corporate systems And I don't i don't know that we have that up or whatever, at least we're not talking about what that upper hand means. The strike on May 1st that they're talking about will be interesting to see if America engages in that type of mass behavior. If eight plus million, eight to nine million people do call out as a small business owner, It's a little contentious too. And especially for communities who do not have access to resources, it's a little like, i I'm a little concerned around who's putting that bill for that type of of thing. But I do think- it move all sharing
00:08:22
Speaker
And I don't mean to cut you off to stop you, but I think that's the point that we need that contention. I think that's the problem. We're scared of leaning into the contention of it, but I think we have to get to a point to where we have to put our foot on foot down and say, where where is enough enough?
00:08:38
Speaker
Because I think to point to what Kenyon was saying, what's the next step? The next step is actually making the people who get paid to do their job, do their job. like Do your job. You may be a part of the same party that elected that president. However, if you don't agree with Trump, say you don't agree. Do your job. You're a congressperson.
00:08:58
Speaker
You are a representative for a reason. It's not because of who put money in your pocket. It is because you're supposed to stand up for your constituents. Do your damn job.
00:09:09
Speaker
Yeah, and it's not and I wish it would, it's not even, i mean, the the Republicans should be icing on the cake. We don't even have the Democrats, frankly, wanting do too much. And that's that's, I think, a big part of problem. So, like a lot of, you know, what I've been saying, thinking about no kings to people again is, look,
00:09:27
Speaker
Mass mobilizations can do a lot of things. And I think what people's disappointment is, I think, an assumption that they can do everything right. Like we're not ending racial capitalism because 8 million people turned out of the... but but that But that mobilization is still important because it does other things, right?
00:09:44
Speaker
One, just I think it it does what good organizing, like you stress test, right? You sort of test to see how far this is what Bayer Rustin's strategy was doing those small and organizing those sort of small civil disobediences at Southern lunch counters or riding the Greyhound across state lines and not moving to the back of the bus. All of those were stress tests to see, one, you know, how far you could get legally, right? What would happen if you just broke those laws?
00:10:12
Speaker
Two, if you incrementally move people along those things, what people then begin to show up. And so what started to happen was people started to spontaneously, right, organize those things. Once they started to see them happen, they started to then just take and do them and in Orangeburg, South Carolina, famously, a but bunch of other actions that happened were done, were inspired because somebody did something small that people thought, oh, what the fuck is that going to do? Or what is this mobilization? So I think we have to really, one I just think it's also too early to say whether the No Kings is successful or not, because it's we I think we won't know for 10 years. Right. like But I think it is doing something that is getting to sort of test to see where
00:10:55
Speaker
how many people you can mobilize. And then once people get, geek especially in these places where people don't don't, aren't in the culture of activism, right? We're going to a rally or protests or marches like that shit we do for breakfast, lunch and dinner in a lot of the big cities, right? But in other smaller cities, rural towns, that's just not the culture of things. And so seeing if you can move those people on some basic principles, obviously we're not all going to agree on everything.
00:11:22
Speaker
then you might be see, OK, so now that we got people finally showing up for these things, then will they will they then boycott? Will they then strike? Right. And not go to work? Or what what are the other kind of things that that people might then will they show up and then block an ICE facility or some other kind of institution? And you have to start thinking about like how it can build from there. And I guess I think that that's like where we are in that moment. We're testing some things and sort of see what what sticks.
00:11:51
Speaker
and in the And the problem also, again, I think is you were just saying, Maddie, really smartly, that that the people, the political apparatus that ought to be bolstering these actions are just showing up to get that picture taken, but they're not taking that and then going back and in it to D.C. and doing anything legislatively.
Political Moments & Systemic Failures
00:12:10
Speaker
or with the political power they have to help augment what people are showing up to do. And so I wish people were more mad at the Democrats than they were at the No Kings organizers for not taking this energy and then doing something with it with the power that they have.
00:12:25
Speaker
Well, do you think the SAVE Act Like the fact that they held back on the SAVE Act was them trying to show some of that. Like, I i think it was a, i wouldn't say it was to the extent that I would prefer, but I think they didn't sign it, which left this moment of RTS agents and the whole situation there. So they at least held over them this idea around voter recognizing that what they were trying to add was a poll tax.
00:12:52
Speaker
Right. And so being able to hold that back was to me, their first execution of trying to hold power. It still felt really fragile and it still feels like they they they gave in maybe sooner or in a way that I'm not thrilled about. But do you think it's them testing the water?
00:13:08
Speaker
Well, I think that they've had a lot of opportunity to test the water that they haven't Like, you're testing the water in 2026, bitch, you're too late.
00:13:19
Speaker
You should have been testing, like, just even in the the the current administration. Like, the, and it's been talked about by a lot of people, not before me, that, like, This time last year, when they were threatening to shut down the government, that's when they should actually did it from which was only a few months into Trump's.
00:13:36
Speaker
That's when the doge was happening, when people were being massively laid off, when they were raiding offices. They should have shut shit down right then and there and not budged. and and actually force the Republicans to then pass a decent budget, right, which was the which was the fight. But they kept kicking the can down the road.
00:13:54
Speaker
So to me, I'm like, OK, yeah, thank you for the SAVE Act piece. But this is ah it's a day late and a dollar short as far as I'm concerned. And I need to see more before I feel like that that cast of characters is really about business.
00:14:09
Speaker
well I was going say, i was going to take what Kenya said and to be a little bit more dramatic with it. I think us testing the waters was 1965 and 1967 and 1968. I just had a conversation about this today. We're all still in the civil rights movement. like I get tired of people trying to act like this is new under the sun. No, it's just they they picked a different group to target.
00:14:31
Speaker
But this all goes back to civil rights, point blank period. So... I agree with Kenya. I think it's a day late and dollar short to now try to test the waters. We've we've had years of time to test the waters. And we have examples of where we tested the waters when, I mean, if we want to keep it recent, when Trump was in office the first time, when he ran against Hillary, when Kamala ran for president, I think whenever Biden was like, we've already tested the waters in so many ways. At this point, if you're just testing the waters, I i beg to death and say, no, you're just scared at this point. You don't want to dive in.
00:15:07
Speaker
Because thing is, you're going to get dirty. Go ahead. Sorry. I guess but then that prompts to me, is the system then fundamentally unsalvageable? Because I ask this in the sense that you're not wrong, Maddie. I think this is this is not what Trump has taken advantage of is a system that was already moving toward a far more corporate lean.
00:15:27
Speaker
an antagonized by the government kind of approach, like an anti-government approach, right? Like we saw it with the early libertarian movement, with the Tea Party movement, we saw it with this sort of growing conversation and even Democrats, right? Often times would talk about big government as a fundamental problem and like, oh no we would hate to have government clean my roads.
00:15:45
Speaker
Like we would, we would like, would, there is this sort of like caving in rather than, you've probably heard me say this on the show before, right? We've never imagined what a government contract would look like, where we all share in that contract and what that might look like, right? s We've never really, or as neighbors, we've never really had a constructive conversation about what an imagination of that looks like. And to me, this has been a slow unraveling. I mean, Trump certainly accelerated the damage that could be done and bull in a china shop in the second term, certainly in the first nine months. But there were a lot of things, like I said, Swiss cheese in the system that fundamentally were let to be there because we'd already, whether it was, I'm blanking on the name of the the Supreme Court case, but whether not it's corporations or people, whether or not like the unravelling of this social contract happened a while ago. And so is it salvageable?
00:16:38
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, there's a lot of different kind of points in history we could point to to be like, this was it. This was the moment. There have been a lot of moments. But if if I had to say in our in the most kind of contemporary moment, I would say that the Supreme Court giving George W. Bush the election in 2000 over Al Gore and stopping the recount and really investigating what the fuck happened in Florida. That was where to me, that's that's the moment.
00:17:06
Speaker
That was where. I think we're going to look back historically and realize that everything in the last 20 years, that moment in the 9-11 was right after that.
00:17:16
Speaker
And then Katrina happened. And within that period was also where we started to see that like Congress couldn't, Congress has almost not passed an on-time budget in 20 years.
00:17:31
Speaker
I think we forget that. And then to me, if you're, if the, the, the when that is the, that is the basic fun, like a function of Congress, which is to manage the money. It is to pass budgets and make sure that money is appropriated and that it's spent where it's supposed to go. That is the Congress's,
00:17:49
Speaker
first job. And at the point at which we stopped being able to pass a budget on time was the sign that we were on our way to becoming a failed state. And now we're at the point that even basic, like the basic government functions are like the the airports. the I mean, we go through the list of things that are increasingly fragile and falling apart. The infrastructure as just further evidence of of that.
00:18:18
Speaker
So to me, that I think we really look at, in like I said, particularly and in more recent times, really like the early 2000s is when a lot of this stuff got cemented and and and we're living in the the the wake of it now.
00:18:33
Speaker
Now, love that. Thank you for sharing that because that's really powerful, that kind of legacy. And at this point, we're going to take a short break, but I love that we're having this conversation because I think it's not only just acknowledging that these King's protests are part of a larger conversation, because again, to get to a point where there's no Kings, you have to have gotten to a point where you've released so much power to the executive branch. And you've you've really lost any trust and faith in any of the other institutions. And so I come back to my core question, which is, I don't know, I'm curious what we'll build if we're going to build something out of this. But we will find out more about how we feel about some of the other headlines when we come back on the other side of the break. So please stay tuned, informed, and connected here Power Beyond front
00:19:17
Speaker
And welcome back to Power Beyond Pride, a queer change-making
Surveillance & Government Control
00:19:21
Speaker
podcast. I am one of your beautiful hosts tonight, Maddie Bynum, and I am joined here with my two amazing co-hosts, Shane Lucas and Kenyon Farrell.
00:19:30
Speaker
And for once, I can honestly say we're all on the East Coast. Yes! Praise God. Thank you, Jesus. Hallelujah. Yeah. So let's start off with this question now that we're back.
00:19:41
Speaker
The past week, Tennessee was advancing a bill to create a list of trans people in their state. Now, historically, this has never been a good thing. If a state starts creating a list of trans people, where do we draw the line between policy and surveillance?
00:19:59
Speaker
And what does it mean for the LGBTQ plus community when identity starts being tracked by the government instead of being protected by it? I know that was a heavy question, but... It bad that...
00:20:13
Speaker
There is no time in history that the tracking of any population by identity through a government effort, especially one that has specifically been antagonized or antagonizes those communities, has been a good thing. And so, again, they're just there's such a playbook here. And it's not just a 2025 playbook. It's...
00:20:34
Speaker
it's German and Ellis Island and all of the things that go ahead of it. So, yeah, I mean, it's it's it's incredibly ah horrifying. It's horrifying. And actually, I should also note and something that was also announced this just recently is that I believe it's one of the Pennsylvania universities has to give a list of its Jewish students.
00:20:51
Speaker
to the administration as well. So I just want to this isn't just about our Trans Plus community members. All communities are important in these conversations, but I think it's important to know that this is, this is there is an attempt to draw attention to and identify a number of communities who have faced and are facing hostilities directly.
00:21:09
Speaker
And we should be scared. We should be scared of that. Yeah, any and just with you, there's no registration of of people based on identity as such that ever ends in a good, obviously it was the Nazi Germany example. It was also a McCarthyist in this country. That was so much of that was give me the names of all the communists, people who were, were not communists, but people did it to to get off the hook themselves.
00:21:39
Speaker
Well, tribal wars in Africa did the same thing. Oh, yeah. Yeah, for sure. So there's, yeah, so any, these sorts of state mandated like lists of people is, is, ah yeah, ah it's often just a ah ah way, I mean, to do just frankly, it's, it's, it's, it's fascist. It's often a lead a leading way to ethnic cleansing and genocide, et cetera, right? We could go down the list. So, and, and you're right. It's not just, is it is trans folks and in some of these more,
00:22:13
Speaker
acute examples, but we also have seen in this country and other ones. And and certainly there's an article today, i think in the Guardian, about how the Trump has weaponized the EEOC c to go after the groups that the EEOC normally protects in in in to supposedly protect white people. Right. So and this is something that's happening in my my job, right, as a working for a California labor union representing a ah higher ed faculty, the Trump administration went to the university system and said there's too much anti-Semitism at one of the campuses.
00:22:48
Speaker
And so you have to get and this was through the EEOC, c right? We have to you have to give us all the names of the faculty and their personal information so we can investigate anti-Semitism on this campus. And like and the CSU, Cal State University did it. They gave them and my union sued the university and we settled the case out of court. But, but yeah, so they're, they're doing this to get lists of people to be able to use the state to, to ah harass and target people further. And so these kinds of of lists and registrations are never a good thing. It also happens in the X-Men. I mean, for all you comic book nerds, there's so many X-Men, k the comic stories that are about the government trying to register mutants, right? Like they're they're using that allegory to get people to think about what that actually means, right? In and in the X-Men story. So here we are in real life.
00:23:43
Speaker
I was about to say, and I think that's why if this question with this question, my answer would be, what more what more evidence do you need? I don't think there is a answer in a sense to like, how do we? It's just what more evidence do you need? Like you said, we got upteen examples of what lists can do to people.
00:24:01
Speaker
No, to me to me, there's just a... It's challenging in some ways, right? Because you, at the same time, we want things like the census, because the census helps us ah see a portrait of allocation of resources, of what it means to make sure that communities are served and underserved communities get access to shared resources. And so it is, again, coming back to what role does the government play And what I feel like this is, is basically weaponizing systems that weren't necessarily inherently, EEOC is a good example, weren't intended to do harm. And yet what they'd been able to do without getting their hands slapped in the way that you they should be,
00:24:43
Speaker
is essentially weaponize these same systems that have been used to protect community members. It's it's coming back in this cycle where I don't know, i'm not a fan, again, of trying to create a registry of individuals based on those identities. But I also understand you talk about resources, you talk about our indigenous community members or other community members were populations that have been excised from a lot of conversations. And so there are sometimes necessary needs to make sure that communities self-identify so that we recognize resources in different ways. but
00:25:13
Speaker
But they have to be data beingut collection and data collection is a different thing. Right. Like when you're collecting data to understand how a particular disease or or a particular issue impacts a particular group, that is a very different conversation. And we need to know your name for no other reason other than we are registering these aberrant or or.
00:25:36
Speaker
people people that we want to to to watch. that's ah That's a whole different thing than we need to understand and say how many, what the the health outcomes of trans people in St. Louis.
00:25:49
Speaker
That's a whole different... It's a faith collection of data. It is a trusted collection of data. Right. But it also is not tied to your name and your address necessarily. That's the other piece of it.
00:26:02
Speaker
Because I challenge and when you're talking about the census. Yeah, the idea of the census was a good thing, but has it actually done what was the idea was supposed to do? Because yes, getting the information of knowing your demographics and knowing how many people in this area and and this and that was supposed to allocate funds, but there's still a lot of undeveloped ah areas that still have yet to get funds.
00:26:23
Speaker
So the idea of a census as a collection of identities as a whole, not just subjugating out a group, yes, it sounds good. But even in that, it still hasn't done what it was supposed to do.
00:26:37
Speaker
You still don't get the resource, the community. Yeah, I mean, again, it's a little bit of a yes and is what I would say to that. and not Not again, I'm not here to defend it. I'm weird, feel weirdly feel like i'm defending the census. um It has, it does shape things like the number of representatives you get from your region. So that can play a factor in your electoral politics. So that if you are a region that is highly populated or dense or or or not populated well, like finding ways again. Now, so many gerrymandering has happened. So again, these systems have been abused.
00:27:06
Speaker
But I think the principle behind it in terms of what is a representative democracy, that that i can understand the value of it in the sense of making sure the communities do not get ignored, that we don't hyper, we don't under-report ah community members. And the same again, for there is history of allocation of resources in areas where the census, for example, finds pockets of populations that may be either multi-language speaking or other other capacities and being able to address those things. But that's all a good faith argument. like The idea is that it's a good faith conversation, that the census was always a nonpartisan conversation. It was a was a collection of data and facts, and then you would take these data and facts and either party or either...
00:27:49
Speaker
political any political construct could then come up with a solution to say, oh, this population doesn't have access to X and Y thing, or there's no supermarket within this district. We should probably find something here to deal with a food desert. There is a good faith argument, but to your point, it's anonymized data.
00:28:05
Speaker
It is intended in good faith. And that is not what any of this is. And that's the the challenge is like these same systems that are being weaponized and people don't understand the systems. So they don't understand that it's being weaponized.
00:28:19
Speaker
Yeah. So as I want to i want to pivot us from sort of higher level political discussions and and talk more about relationships and and and our how we are personally.
Solitude, Loyalty, & Relationships
00:28:31
Speaker
So we're going to we're going to get a little softer in this.
00:28:35
Speaker
this question. But I'm curious to what y'all think, because I can see myself in this, actually. But there was a recent article that was published in the Journal of Personality and that it stated that psychologists have determined in this particular article that people who enjoy being alone are are the most loyal and faithful partners and friends to others.
00:28:59
Speaker
Which I just thought was very interesting. So if people enjoy being alone, tend to be more loyal and faithful per se, does that challenge how we think about independence and relationships? And I will just say front that i I am that person. i am very, i can be very much alone in my bubble for days. I can not talk to people for days on air.
00:29:22
Speaker
yeah
00:29:26
Speaker
Does that make me a more loyal friend and lover? I don't know. was about to say, I don't know the correlation. i would say for me, I'm definitely that same person. I love being, a matter of fact, I had a friend tell me that my house was my fortress of solitude. Because it really is. like i love yeah a hall I love it. And I love having company, but i also love saying buy the company. Because it's just something about being able to have your own um space.
00:29:51
Speaker
But does that make me a more faithful and loyal partner? I could say yes, because I think once I get a partner, I probably would seem more loyal and faithful because I've been so alone for so long that I would probably cling to that person to a point.
00:30:06
Speaker
I don't think it necessarily makes me more faithful or loyal. So I feel like I'm going to get personal. So get close. Get close, young'uns. Here, let's hang out. so right I never think of myself as a relationship.
00:30:22
Speaker
And yet... I've been in my current relationship for 13 years. so And part of it, and I've really reflected on what this is, and part of even our contentious and contention in the relationship is that I firmly believe it is an ah it is a choice every day to show up and be there.
00:30:40
Speaker
And part of that, because I know I'm okay on my own, because I know i can function and resilience and have agency on my own. then my choice to be there and to spend time with the people that I spend time with is a choice, which means that as I choose it, I'm choosing to invest and have that energy. And so I tend to be very loyal. I can i can i have friends who you know I may not talk with for a period of time, but they are I choose them in my life and I recognize that I do not need them in I know it sounds weird to say it, and maybe it sounds insensitive.
00:31:11
Speaker
But what it means is that like I also, because I come from a very unstable household, realize that when people are harmful to me, I don't want to be around. And so I also try to choose people who are going to be constructive.
00:31:24
Speaker
Because I know that I can walk away and I encourage people in my life to feel the same way. Like you should build a life in which you do not need to endure trauma, where you feel like you deserve it or you feel like you have to endure it. My hope is that you feel like secure enough in yourself to do that. And I think that fosters that independence. Like I think of myself as highly independent. People see me as a very type A, but I'm really more of that, whatever that new version is, right? That type A, but like my battery goes down.
00:31:50
Speaker
Like I love my time in the woods and I am i am fine on my own for a long, long period of time. But when I want to be social and when I want to be in a relationship and I want to connect to people, it's a choice. And I like that I get to revisit that choice regularly. It doesn't mean I'm afraid of commitment. It means like I choose to be here and I recognize that I have the safety and agency to not be here. but Yeah, I would say I also think it's about I think it's about a certain level of security. Right. I think I think that people who struggle to be alone
00:32:23
Speaker
our struggle with also being insecure, right, to a certain extent. And so I think they're probably, there their insecurity and the anxiety that is produced by that insecurity means that they may do things that one would then determine as like disloyal or as somehow not locked in And so people, and if there's obviously lots of folks who are not in monogamous relationships. Some of this is set up as like a kind of monogamy versus like the So faithful is always a weird thing to me because it's always about kind of monogamy frame.
00:32:57
Speaker
But let's just say like I, I have certainly experienced or known people if they are insecure and therefore have a lot of anxiety around like when you're not there or as the a partner or whatever,
00:33:11
Speaker
they will sometimes do things to work out their anxiety, right? That might actually be break whatever kind of rules y'all have that's about their own shit. And so I think that so to me, it's not just about just because a person likes to be alone. I think there's a certain kind of a security that you have as a person, if you are the kind of person who can be by yourself for a while, that then that means that you are probably going to be somewhat of a more secure person.
00:33:36
Speaker
partner when you do enter into partnerships or in your friendships for that matter, because you're actually, you're not, what's the word I want, kind of like using people for their, to get their energy because you have some kind of anxiety around being alone. It's a different, a different kind of a relationship that I think is probably what this is getting at.
00:33:55
Speaker
You're not hunting for approval. And the challenge about faithfulness is that if I don't get that approval in this moment, then I'll seek that approval somewhere else. that And then it's not even like an an unfaithfulness. It's just so like ah like you said, I think a panic.
00:34:07
Speaker
Oh no, if I'm not approved, then let me go find some approval and I'll find this approval. or And that approval doesn't necessarily mean infidelity. It could just mean you shift focuses or you act out of anger and you like yeah all kinds of things.
00:34:18
Speaker
But I do think that's security. I like that you named it as security. And But I also think, too, like I would also flip the question. People who enjoy being alone, I think sometimes might make it harder for us to find long-lasting relationships. Because like you said, when you are secure and being by yourself, you learn that certain...
00:34:40
Speaker
I don't need certain things to to to feel validated or feel functioned. And I think that that comes from, because I have that issue now being single for so long and being secure in my singleness that I have found and in recent past relationships, I don't validate the other person enough.
00:34:56
Speaker
Because I'm like, well, I'm good by myself. I don't need your validation, but clearly you need mine. But I'm falling flat because I don't know how to validate you anymore because I validate me all day, every day, boo. Like, it's good. So I think, yeah, it's it's a healthy conversation, but I don't think that being alone will make you more faithful or more loyal.
00:35:16
Speaker
um like No, I think it's i think it's a skill set. Like when I think about, because I've thought about it, and I see friends of mine who are single, friends of mine who are in couples and partnerships. And part of what I think I did very consciously when I was younger, because I saw the way that people who are highly independent and sort of looked very similar to my own pathway, would start to do and live alone and create a life where they had that independence, which is great.
00:35:39
Speaker
But to me, I was like, oh, I could get really used to that. And then I was like, oh, I could get really used to that. So I always had a roommate because I was like a roommate or somebody around in close proximity, because I think there's a skillset to learn to negotiate people. In some ways it was very focused.
00:35:54
Speaker
Like, I love my old roommates. They're all great. I've had great roommates and that kind of stuff. But it was a very conscious effort, both for me to have someone else there that I needed to like negotiate space with. Because I realized, like given my druthers, I'd just be in a cave in the woods and no one would ever. It just would have that kind of like feeling. And I needed to practice that.
00:36:14
Speaker
And so that actually has, for me, at least for my relationship, that has been a very big key to it. Because I've learned how to create those spaces, navigate those spaces and create sort of separations and also define what it means to have us things and my things and create a space. Because I know if I don't have my things that I will not find a good space. And I'm like, you have your things too. And that's great. I don't need to have your things. You have your things. And then we have our things.
00:36:38
Speaker
But some people, I think when i when I see them in relationships, they're like, everything's ours. And I was like, oh my God, I would suffocate so fast in that kind of involvement because they're like, I'm incomplete and I need you to complete me. And I'm like, if you're incomplete, then we're not in a good place. yeah I'm already complete. So- We'll get you on that one. Well, look, yeah, so we're going to make this, like we always do everything on Power Beyond Pride. We're going to challenge our viewers and listeners to get involved in this conversation. We're going to give you a few moments to sit alone.
00:37:09
Speaker
So in those moments, as you sit alone and we take a break, when we come back, I want you to reflect on how it felt for the 60 seconds that you sat alone. And does that make you more of a faithful, loyal person in that 60 seconds? Okay. We'll be right back. Thank you.
00:37:24
Speaker
Thank you.
Privilege & Identity in Queer Spaces
00:37:33
Speaker
Welcome back to Power Beyond Pride. I'm Shane Lucas, and I'm here with my phenomenal co-hosts, Kenyon Farrow and Maddie Bynum. And on the break, we talked about something that queer people are talking about all over. So we want to take a moment and kind of dig into this real quick, because this a good moment. We're queer changemakers ourselves. And so when we talk about a lot about politics and and different topics, we don't get a chance to talk about pop culture quite the same way. We talked a little bit about it before break. But right now, we want to talk about this interview with EJ Johnson. It's basketball star Magic Johnson's kid and his know their interview rather with Carlos King.
00:38:06
Speaker
Now, the interview itself was actually very good. However, I would say that that that there were... ah we I don't know if if if they're okay. Do you think that wealth changes someone's experiences as as a queer person, or do we think that that that the perspective was more empowering or out of touch? If anybody's not seen it, it is ah it is an interesting discussion about their coming into public space and had a lot of different comments to share. And I'm curious, Maddie, Kenyon, are there any quotes or moments that you want to share with people just to give them context about why this caught everybody's ear?
00:38:45
Speaker
Well, first off, kid i I love that you used the word interesting to describe the interview because it the interesting is a very descriptive but safe term to kids describe it. I would say yeah the whole interview itself was interesting. Some of it was eye-opening and some of it also was a mirror moment for myself because I saw some things that he said. Well, i heard some things that he said that I could understand.
00:39:14
Speaker
But I think the biggest thing for me is yes, I think money does change things because what I got from the interview as a whole is It's easier to be very a matter of fact, and it's easy to have a very good stance when you have less people telling you no to your face.
00:39:32
Speaker
When you grow up in an environment where people yes you because of whether it's your financial status, the color of your skin, the privilege or whatever, when you have that type of ah upbringing, it is a little bit harder sometimes for you to recognize maybe someone who is standing in the same position you're in, but they had to go against their entire family. leave everything they know from their past, their town, their community, their people, their respective things, leave that behind to finally be their truthful self. Whereas you had a level of comfortability to become your truthful self in your home.
00:40:09
Speaker
Does that make sense? So I think that there will be a level of difference when you have an advantage in life. Cause EJ came from a family that kind of nurtured him.
00:40:21
Speaker
instead of shun him as much out. Yeah, I mean, I would agree with that. And I, to so, and there's like levels to certain kind of privilege, right? So i in that sense, I'm quote unquote privileged because I also came from a very pro-queer family. Like I, there was queer people around. You're queer? Yeah, yeah. might Yeah. Well, mean, like gay, lesbian, there were folks who we what we were proud. We probably now would say we're trans. But the time, it was like the drag queens or whatever folks in and in the community.
00:40:50
Speaker
And it was never a secret. and everything but But we were also poor. This was the projects in Cleveland. Right. So it wasn't like so that did that that kind of privilege wasn't there. So me, I'll say this, me watching the interview, I was struck by.
00:41:03
Speaker
There was a level of i'm rich. There wass a level of like, I'm rich. A level? A level as is as like they like me is like being at the bottom of the nine foot end of the pool. for sure.
00:41:16
Speaker
Yeah, no, for sure. i like i'm not even trying to diminish it. i just but there There was definitely a level of i have grown up with not doing with... a lot of money and also with a certain kind of status of being Magic Johnson's kid that all that came with. Now, that also came with a lot of hard stuff because being tall as EJ is or whatever, but not being in the same kind of masculine shadow, like people assuming that EJ would grow up to play basketball, probably like those kinds of things probably were there and were hard to deal with, even while you had a supportive family. So I don't whatever I'll take away from that.
00:41:53
Speaker
Hold on one second, Key, not to cut you off, but also being outed, because we we do want to acknowledge EJ was outed at 13. So yet again, that we're not taking away from those things. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I think, but to me, look the the part of the conversation that kind of took up the most, like, kind of discourse on the internet was EJ talking about going to gay bars and i don't and saying essentially i don't I don't meet men romantically in gay bars. Most of the men who approach me are straight and they are and I tend to meet them in straight bars. So if I go to gay bars, it's with my friends to just hang out, have fun. But it's not that's not where I'm so i'm getting romantic or sexual attention or whatever. And people got really angry at that. But but
00:42:39
Speaker
and But I, and that's actually the part of the interview that thought was the realist. I couldn't, I couldn't understand. yeah Because go like, because like, look because like, let's be, let's be honest. Let's be, because like, I feel like we want to have it both ways. I mean, people would, I think people were just so mad about the, the, the level of like richness and some level of elitism that he kind of carried through, that they couldn't get, they, they got lost in the sauce around that piece. Because we can't have it both ways. We can't both critique the gay bar culture, being hyper-masculine, being whatever, all these things. And then somebody says, as a non-binary, gender non-conforming person who who and who presents in a more kind of feminine, a center sort of scale, that
00:43:25
Speaker
Oh, we like, like that somehow their experience that they're recounting going into gay bars and being ignored romantically is somehow not real. And and also, even for me, like, i because had to think about it, even if I saw EJ in a gay bar, I would probably assume that EJ was trans and would probably make the assumption that they probably didn't.
00:43:48
Speaker
also wouldn't be interested in my gay as a partner in that way. And we don't we do know that trans women and gay men sometimes like date or have sex with, we do know that that happens. But that would probably be my first assumption as well. It doesn't mean i would I would treat them shitty, doesn't mean I wouldn't dance with them or hang out or whatever, but i but that would be just my my assumption just because that's just the that's just the nature of those spaces. And also, I have other, I have a very close friend of mine who's also non-binary and is the the kind of like person who just The way they were born, ah li ah no facial hair, very little body hair at all.
00:44:25
Speaker
Very pretty face. Voice sits higher in range, just naturally sits higher. And is islam kind i I hate to use the word naturally, but just in and just was born in ah in a body that is just people don't know how to read.
00:44:41
Speaker
gender-wise or read reads more feminine if they're just wearing one thing versus what they wear the the other. That's just how they, the body that they're in. They get approached by straight men all the time. Like, all the time.
00:44:56
Speaker
A majority of the men that they are like having sex with straight men. Right. And who and men who find out that they are was a sign male at birth, like often get over it. Like once they they they're attracted to that person and they move. so So I think that that part of the conversation, well I couldn't I think people were angry at just like the general elitism of it all, but couldn't actually really here that piece for what it was, because that's just that that's the truth of day bars, right? That they they generally, that there's a ah range of different body politics in those spaces that that there's a hierarchy of, and that EJ as a person, if it was not there to perform drag or whatever, would probably have a difficult time if that's what they were trying to seek out a romantic partner.
Sexual Identity & Attraction
00:45:46
Speaker
That to me is just, that's just
00:45:48
Speaker
a fact. I'm sorry. I like how you explained it, but I also, I had a conversation this past week, weekend can about it and I explained the same thing, but I also explained a little different because i I went from the narrative also where he talks about gay and straight and I had the, and I said, well, initially, the way I grew up, gay wasn't technically a sexuality. It was a derogatory word because even, i knew gay guys that did not like to be called gay.
00:46:18
Speaker
Because it was like, if you ever heard someone say, oh, that's gay or that person was gay, that was some punk, some sissy fives, some... That's how I grew up. So to hear EJ say, I don't date gay men, I date straight men, I told my friend, I said, honestly, I can understand that because what I hear when he says straight, I honestly go to DL Guys.
00:46:38
Speaker
But that's how I was raised. That was the community I was in. I was raised around where I knew gay guys, but if you saw them walking down the street, you would never knew they was gay. And if you ever opened your mouth and called them they that they were gay, you got your ass beat for And do I think it's right? No. But I think a lot of times we get hung up on labels. And so when people hear, well, I don't date gay guys, I'll date straight guys.
00:47:05
Speaker
We have to stop looking looking at the literalness of gay and straight and and realizing that first off, the words don't even mean what they used to mean. or what they should mean in general, because we've put titles on, so many titles on people, that now we've got to keep up with titles of the titles of the titles, that now everybody's going offended because the title doesn't match, if that makes sense.
00:47:28
Speaker
So that's how I also view that same part of the conversation. Because was he wrong for what he said? No. Was his attitude and his delivery wrong? Yes. I do agree. Like, I think there was a different way you could have delivered that conversation.
00:47:42
Speaker
But when it comes down to him saying, i don't date gay guys, I date straight guys. Because there was a time when I was in gay before I even knew who I was today, before I came into society.
00:47:55
Speaker
my understanding and having a conversation with my parents and learning that I was intersex, like even before that conversation even came about, I remember going to gay clubs and I was like, this ain't for me. The men here don't want me.
00:48:08
Speaker
and Well, I would always get mistaken as a drag queen. Oh, you here to perform tonight, baby? You here to perform. I want to sing and I can make you laugh, but that's not my calling. So I can understand where EJ's coming from in that conversation saying, I don't date gay men. Because if somebody would have asked me in my 20s, do you date gay men here or no?
00:48:25
Speaker
I date straight men. and And I knew the difference, distinctness of it, if that makes sense. that's that's how I guess my question, and guess I guess my my conundrum here is, and and I think part of it is what we're pointing out is that there is a anti-femininity, I don't know a better way to frame it, among gay men, like a kind of a distaste of the feminine in a lot of male spaces, which is what Nidate calls out. At the same time, what I think is to me a little troubling around it is that there is a conquest narrative in straight men.
00:49:04
Speaker
There's a validation narrative in straight men. And I feel like he's, all well, again, I want to make sure i get his pronouns right, but I believe it. Is that he his or are they them? i I can't remember. he oh When in the interview started, he said he was renouncing all titles. So I don't know what title to i call EJ. I'll argue agree with EJ. I just want to honor where where where they're at. I would say bait him just to be on the side him.
00:49:27
Speaker
Yeah, the non-binary, again, i I don't remember that part of the interview with that. but i but i But I think that idea of the conquest, I think, is also fundamentally challenging, and I don't feel like they undermined it. I guess that's part of their point was to try to undermine it, but in fact, I think that they were...
00:49:43
Speaker
In no new part of this interview did they try to elevate their own ego and their own narrative. My suffering was terrible too. It was so hard going to all these parties. I was in Paris having a hard time. you're like, okay, well, okay, okay, okay. Like I'm not, whatever, okay. we we what we'll deal with that. But I but i think the but i think that idea of the straight men and being attracted to straight men was also being used as much as a as ah as a marker, as ah as a sort of, see, i am I have a validation here. And I and i don't know, at at one point it's a critique because like you said, e j was in these bars, people were paying attention to them, and that's a fair critique of of gay culture and it's sort of anti-feminine kind of narrative. At the same time, i feel like they double down on it because they say, well, straight men are like, ah straight men, look at this, look at this thing I get to, I get to put on my shoulder, this trophy straight man thing. Because I've heard gay men do that. They're like, the straight man is, that's the conquest. That's the narrative. That's the award. And I'm like, are they straight? Because used to work with high-risk men in like parks and like,
00:50:49
Speaker
I've met straight men like who will have, and but it won't involve dating or relationships. like It involves an exchange and that's the extent of it. But once it and moves beyond like an exchange, like essentially a they're basically getting off for all intents purposes, like the emotional and and none of that is there. Once it goes beyond that to me, are they? like I have a hard time. At that point, you're calling them straight, but to what extent?
00:51:13
Speaker
Because if they are creating a relationship at that point, then I have a little bit of a different, I have a different, they may not self-identify that way. But like, to me, it changes a little bit once there's an emotional and and and and into and intellectual investment. Yeah, no, I think that's fair. But and I agree with you that there was a level, I'm glad you mentioned that there was part of that was ah a kind of, there was a braggart part of of his, of EJ's. Braggart's, yeah. use him Yeah, like I attract straight men, right? Like i there there was definitely an element of that. And maybe I'm a little more,
00:51:43
Speaker
they young. Like a little bit, little bit, a little bit, the unk in me was little bit like, they young. Some shit will wake them up a little bit off of that. you know, maybe, whatever. So, but but that was absolutely there. So I don't take anything away from that.
00:51:57
Speaker
But I think to your, this last point, yeah, like, also, I just think that people have a range of journeys, right? And and so, while I would agree that like, at know the point at which somebody like, goes beyond like, just getting hit in the park to considering dating somebody who starts to have some kind of emotional attachment to another ah queer trans person. And then the question of whether that person's, can they still say that they're straight? But i but that takes time. And so even even if that person is in a place at that that,
00:52:32
Speaker
is in flux or may shift or that or that there's a... they There may be a while that person is still considers themselves straight despite whatever other experiences that they they may have.
00:52:45
Speaker
i And i've I have a... I'm thinking one straight friend of mine who had a relationship with a with a man for a period of time and and it is very acknowledges it was what it was, but still thinks of himself as a straight man, right? he doesn't So I so just think it's it's complicated at that point. I generally just go with whatever you tell me, I'm a rock with, right? And not put my own shit on it, despite whatever I i may think the the situation But I think that's also too why I get into the whole thing. though This is why we got to be careful with labels and putting titles and labels on things. Because the thing is, sexuality itself is a fluid experiment.
00:53:25
Speaker
It is. It is. like Because I just had a conversation with my cousin about it today in the sense where it was like, if a woman tries, if if a woman sleeps with a woman in college, let's just say like this. If a woman sleeps woman in college once, maybe twice, and she chooses to never sleep with a woman again, is she now considered a lesbian?
00:53:44
Speaker
No. But if a man has any encounter with another man once, twice, even thinks about it in his life, he is now forever the rest of his life a gay man. Why? We have to be careful. I don't agree with that.
00:53:56
Speaker
No. yeah Like I said, like I used to work in parks. i don't I don't think that's necessarily true, but I think it's, it's to me, the line is crossed into a different place when there's an emotional and intellectual attachment.
00:54:07
Speaker
If it is, i played with somebody and I had gay sex, then that's the thing. Or if it's, again, if I'm having same-sex engagement as as exploration and it's not really tied to an emotional and an intellectual investment,
00:54:19
Speaker
then I think it's different, right? at that point At that point, it's a pleasure, it's corporeal, that's fine, it's all of that. And I wouldn't assign much to that. But I think once you make an investment in that person, and what I think is really important to me about EJ's statement is that in some ways they have to be straight people. Like that felt like that was the attraction. Like that felt like that was the justification and the honorific that they were trying to carry in it. So I imagine if one of those people went, well, actually I'm i'm i'm pansexual or I'm bi or I'm exploring.
00:54:49
Speaker
i don't know that they, I don't get the sense. And again, I do not know this person very well. So I only know them from these interviews this stuff. I don't know that that would be interesting this person. I wonder if EJ would consider that relationship still.
00:55:02
Speaker
Like those are the things I think that to me- But some people don't like it. Some people like the conquest, like you said. So yeah, no. yeah There's a lot. But I hear you do.
00:55:14
Speaker
There should be more fluidity and we we need, and and I love that there's more fluidity in the spectrum. I just wonder how the power dynamic impacts and how re reinforcing that helps, if it helps at all. Kenyon as we go into our next segment reading. We have a contention of if we're going to call it a mailbag, a mail slot, a a mailbox, a mail hole, whatever. it still has yet to be determined by our viewers of what name we should name it.
00:55:40
Speaker
But I think you have a question. Mail hole is crazy. love people. I'll hear you continue. maleho is wild
00:55:50
Speaker
well i love an oh continue i think Go right here. No, I think you have a question from a viewer that we need to respond. yeah So I'm going to go with with this this question.
Political Engagement in Relationships
00:56:04
Speaker
I'm dating someone I really like, but they're not into politics, quote unquote, and don't really engage in LGBTQ plus issues.
00:56:13
Speaker
Is that a red flag or am I expecting too much? In a way, the next to the EJ conversation. Yeah.
00:56:21
Speaker
I'm going to say yes. For me, it will be a red flag only because I am an active person. And I think that if you, if we don't have some level of the same ideology, then it's going to be hard for me to truly be able to have a conversation with you on a level of a relationship, if that makes sense.
00:56:48
Speaker
So yes, for me. i'm I'm going to go with if you can distance yourself from seeing the impact of political issues on your existence. Now, again, not everybody's going to be an activist and that and that's fine. Like that that makes sense. But if you absolve yourself of interest in the conversations, yeah, it's hard because...
00:57:07
Speaker
our relationship at some level, because I identify as queer, even if even if I had an opposite sex partner who identified as a cisgender female and all, if you aren't interested in laws and things that impact me and in our relationship, then that would be a fundamental challenge because we have to make decisions based on that. We live in in an equitable system.
00:57:27
Speaker
And I would hope you would at least be aware of that system. So I guess it depends on what not into politics really means. Like, I understand also tapping out of the debate or the or the drama cycles. But if they're uninvested, they're sort of like, I don't care about any of that stuff. I just want to watch Star Wars movies. And...
00:57:46
Speaker
do my cycling classes. bro i I would have a hard time with that because to me that, first of all, it says a level of privilege where you feel like you can tap out and you don't have friends who also are impacted by these concerns. Again, whether that's just LGBTQ issues or issues around racial justice or anything else. If you're not, if your friend group and people in your community are not impacted by many of these things, you do not have a very diverse community.
00:58:07
Speaker
So those are things that also I think would, would for me, be a red flag. How you how you build a community around you matters. And so to me, that would be that would be an issue because you have such an insular community at that point that I don't would have a hard time thinking there'd be a lot of connections.
00:58:23
Speaker
Yeah, it would be a problem for me on that level. and also just because I'm generally very interested in politics and like what's happening in the world and current events. This is something I've always been through, even as a kid.
00:58:36
Speaker
And so some of it, I just I generally find people who are of that sort of opinion really fucking boring.
00:58:49
Speaker
You're just going to come to the chase. There we go. So dull. So fucking dull. And I just would be so bored because, yeah, because then you, add to me, I'm just like, then what are we going to talk about if we're not also just thinking about just whatever, not just like our relationship and our day to day, but what's happening, the things that are happening in the world, good, bad or indifferent, but to not have a level of curiosity, to me, it's also about some the times it can be privileged. And sometimes it's just a lack of curiosity about the world and what's happening and whatever. And and also just the thing I can tell my, my nephews and my nieces like, look, if,
00:59:32
Speaker
You could not watch, and thank God they're not like this, but let's just say if they were, you could not watch the news or pay not pay attention to politics all you want, but there will come a time when you're going to get blindsided by some shit that you could have been paying attention to.
00:59:46
Speaker
So ah ah a layoff, a job cut, scholarship gone, this, that. And not a now it's in the news, so they there they see it. But we the thing used to tell them when they were kids, if you're not paying attention to at least just some of the bare minimum, like of what actually is happening in the world, it's like it's an old statement. man You can say you don't do politics, but politics are going to do you.
01:00:08
Speaker
So there's a level of that for sure. But but but for me, just on a more like whatever service level maybe, is I just find people like that just dull and boring and I just don't want to hang out with you. i You're not allowed. It just tells me you don't care about other people. that's side that i get but part of it is, again, i don't need...
01:00:24
Speaker
Like, reproductive justice concerns are not directly impacting my life directly as as my my personal biography, but they are impacting many people I love and many people I care about. And so I do care what happens there. And I don't necessarily, again, i get wanting to stay away from the caustic back and forth, the debate, the shock politics, all of it. It's exhausting. There's a lot of that that is exhausting.
01:00:46
Speaker
But that's to your point, Kenyon, that curiosity about what is going on in the world and how am I invested or how does how do i participate in this world? i i I can't think of anybody in my life that I would want to spend time with.
01:01:00
Speaker
ah who was not interested in the world that they have, who was not interested in the world. Now, I do want to say that there's probably a little bit of classism in that, and i want to acknowledge that, because i think that's also a case where you have community members who, especially in low-resource communities, who are just like, hey, look, I'm just trying to work a job, put a roof over my head, make sure there's food on the table. I can't think about to that. But I do think, even in my experience in communities where, and and community members where that is the case, and neighbors where that is the case,
01:01:27
Speaker
it did not take a long conversation to talk about their understanding of of the impact these decisions have. Because I think they're aware about whether it's minimum wage or wage labor or labor rights or other things, that there is an interest in it. It's just that they don't have the capacity, which is understandable, because of the responsibilities they have and the level of of of responsibilities they're carrying. So i I also want to acknowledge, and are we talking about MSNBC and CNN and like following that stuff? Are we talking about people who are really interested in their communities and what's going on there and the way that they participate in those communities? And I think...
01:01:56
Speaker
Yeah, if you can really tap out. i don't know you're that interesting. I would say i think that, like you said, I think it tailors to the viewer that that wrote that question. and And so we thank you for writing that question. But I think all of us can collectively say, if it doesn't meet your standard, then that might be a red flag.
01:02:18
Speaker
because I think everybody's politics standard is different. I have a homegirl that will refuse to discuss politics altogether. I have another friend that's, I'll discuss it, but I really don't care. So like you said, Shane, I think there's a level of what people...
01:02:33
Speaker
ah how they feel and where they feel. But to all people, we thank you so much for sending us questions. We thank you all the time for filling our mailbag with so many things to talk about that we can always feel like we're very much in a part of the community.
01:02:46
Speaker
And if this is your first time listening or seeing this show, you can always go to PowerBeyondPride.com to submit your questions, or you can submit them directly to our email, which is mailbag at PowerBeyondPride.com.
01:02:59
Speaker
i i'm I'm willing to create an alternative mail hole at Power BI.com. but I was sitting of thinking that, but i even better i was too classy to say it out loud. I am not classy. that is that That's a given. Even better, send us a video on any of our social channels. Of course, we want to see you, hear you, and be a community with you. We appreciate ah you paying attention to this podcast and and and being being curious in your own communities about the work and transformation that's possible.
01:03:26
Speaker
Yes, thank you, Shane. And unfortunately, that's all we have time for in this reply, all our episode of Power Beyond Pride. That went by really fast. We didn't even get to all the questions, but it was really fun. I'm glad you all joined us.
01:03:40
Speaker
And again, just in closing, I'm your co-host Kenyon Farrell, and you can find me at all the socials just at Kenyon Farrell, my name. It's not that creative with my handles, but I'm so thankful to be here with my two great co-hosts.
01:03:55
Speaker
And also, I am Maddie. You can find me at Maddie Simone 737 on Instagram or just simply Maddie Bynum on Facebook. Because just like everybody else on Facebook, it's one big family for you.
01:04:07
Speaker
Most of the time. ah Anyways, but remember to subscribe and to get all your friends and family to subscribe to Power Beyond Pride on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, or where you get your podcasts. And check out our website, Power Beyond Pride, for all the latest news on Power Beyond Pride.
01:04:26
Speaker
And I am, I am your, I am the other co-host. I am an activist, home productionist. You can follow me at shanelucas.com. Oh, I'm also the king of debauchery. And Power Beyond Pride is a project from A Great Idea, queer owned design and content agency. Learn about them at agreatidea.com.
01:04:50
Speaker
This episode is produced by Shane Lucas, who you just heard. And Maddie Bynum, also here as the project developer. and our editor is Jared Redding with support from Ian Wilson.
01:05:02
Speaker
And yet again, I'm going to say it one more time. How many times can you say Power be Beyond Pride? So we are all a part of the podcast. Awesome host team at Power Beyond Pride. So remember to send your questions and comments to where people Power Beyond Pride. Powerbeyondpride.com. There you go. Check out our new episodes each week and we look forward to career change making with you next time. Thanks to all of us from Beyond Pride.