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Poetry, Power, and Perspective with Daniel WK Lee #55
42 Plays5 days ago
Description:
In this episode, Melodie KG and Kate sit down with poet, author, and activist Daniel WK Lee for a conversation that moves between humor, lived experience, and urgent global realities. Daniel reflects on how his life as a third-generation refugee and his journey through multiple cities have shaped both his worldview and his creative voice. The discussion explores the role of poetry as a form of witnessing, especially in a time when traditional journalism can fall short. Daniel also shares how New Orleans fuels his creativity through intensity, struggle, and community. Listeners will walk away with a deeper understanding of how art, empathy, and global awareness intersect in everyday life.
Guest descriptors:
Insightful, Provocative, Reflective
Episode tags:
#poetry #activism #refugees #creativity #NewOrleans #storytelling #empathy #globalpolitics #queervoices #art #community
Tags again:
#poetry #activism #refugees #creativity #NewOrleans #storytelling #empathy #globalpolitics #queervoices #art #community
Tags again:
#poetry #activism #refugees #creativity #NewOrleans #storytelling #empathy #globalpolitics #queervoices #art #community
Recommended
Transcript
Poets as Truth-Tellers
00:00:00
Speaker
I think the role of the poet these days is at this point, the role that has been surrendered by the journalist, at least in the West, to which is to articulate a truth to or do to speak to truth.
00:00:13
Speaker
Western journalism has become really just stenography to power. So i think there is a tremendous role for poets in that regard. I want to fulfill that to degree.
Podcast Introduction
00:00:26
Speaker
Hello and welcome to Power Beyond Pride, a weekly queer change-making podcast, bringing you voices and ideas from across our fierce and fabulous spectrum to transform our world.
00:00:38
Speaker
I'm Melody KG, Minneapolis-based artivist and provocateur. And I'm Kate, former gay being gifted kid, and we are your co-hosts on today's Queer
Guest Introduction: Daniel W.K. Lee
00:00:48
Speaker
Cast Journey. On this episode of Power Beyond Pride, we're sitting with renowned, multi-talented poet, author, activist, third generation refugee, immigrant, the beautiful soul, the all around witty, Mr. Daniel W.K. Lee. Welcome, Daniel. Oh my God, you said I had a soul. I've never had such libelness little bit more.
00:01:13
Speaker
How dare you? i have no soul. but Thank you so much for being here with us today on Power Beyond Pride. Daniel, as one of our hosts, it's great to be able to flip you in this seat and just chat with you and get to know you a little bit better.
00:01:29
Speaker
Welcome to August.
Cultural Climate and Creativity
00:01:31
Speaker
How's the weather down there in the Crescent City? It's as usual, set to cremation. so And for some reason, the air conditioning is not working very well at the moment. So...
00:01:44
Speaker
I'm not going to quite yet, but there's a possibility. Unfortunately, the listeners will be able to enjoy. i may take off my shirt. No promises.
00:01:54
Speaker
but as i The plan for the start of our Patreon yeah is just filming in the summer and the video of just various hosts being like, I'm hot. I got to take it off. I'm sorry.
00:02:06
Speaker
We'll move to OnlyFans and that's how we'll fundraise. Exactly. no so tell us about your relationship with New Orleans. It is a, I think with a lot of creative people that settle here, it's a very fruitful and and maybe it enchants us in a way that helps us overlook the truly horrific events Maybe not horrific, that's kind of overstating it, but the really dysfunctional infrastructure in this city.
00:02:40
Speaker
But like i before I moved here, I lived in Seattle and and before over Seattle, I lived in New York. And in that Seattle interregnum period, which was five years, I I wrote five poems.
00:02:55
Speaker
And as a poet, that's pretty problematic. And when I moved to New Orleans, I wrote five poems in five weeks. So whatever the drawbacks are, I kind of am able to kind of say, oh, I can live with that. And for the most part, I can live with that.
00:03:14
Speaker
Fortunately, I live on a street that doesn't particularly flood, even when The rains come. So there are a lot of things that I can bear. and And the payoff is that I can keep on writing.
00:03:28
Speaker
Yeah. Right now I'm doing something called the Sealy Challenge, which is a a challenge to read a book of poetry every day for the month of August. And it's kind of helped open the the floodgates. Well, the floodgates for me in terms of how prolific I am.
00:03:45
Speaker
in terms of writing poems, the more I read, the more I write. And i i don't really know if I could have been as prolific if I were still in Seattle, even doing the Sea of the Challenge.
00:03:57
Speaker
Yeah, that's so interesting. What do you think it is about New Orleans, especially in contrast to Seattle, that allows you to do those things and and tap into that creative energy?
00:04:11
Speaker
Well, there's two things, I think. One is that there is intensity here. There is the intensity of the heat, the intensity of the kind of the dynamic of a city that is historically very, very diverse, but also it was kind of clash of energies too, while it also mixed. and so...
00:04:38
Speaker
I think that, and yeah that intensity is part of it. And the other thing would be the struggle. i think one of the things that kind of made perhaps made me not write as much in Seattle is that I had a very easy life. It was there wasn't much struggle. And maybe because for the most part, I've written from a place of some kind of internal struggle or something that since I had it such an ease, ah I didn't really i didn't know what I was actually going to tap into.
00:05:08
Speaker
I wasn't I mean, this is no no jab at my ex-boyfriend, but ah like usually it's the a like an intense thing that like i will kind of write from.
00:05:21
Speaker
And after we were no longer together, we after a period of time, we were able to become friends again. And that recalibration kind of, I guess, nullified that like being able to write out of anger or sufficient pain or something. So, yeah, I would say the difference for me, at least, it was, is struggle and intensity.
00:05:48
Speaker
Interesting.
Daniel's Journey and Inspiration
00:05:50
Speaker
And so just knowing a little bit about your history. So you were born in Kuching, Malaysia, and then crossed some water, came over to the United States, and since then have lived in Chicago. You lived in New York, you lived in Seattle, and you're in New Orleans.
00:06:05
Speaker
And to me, that is a story about motion, a story about contrast. And even now, even in in what you were just sharing about ah shifting that relationship with your ex, that's still kind of motion and contrast.
00:06:20
Speaker
How has being in motion shaped you, your experience, how you see the world in your writing? Yeah, that's an interesting question. i i don't consciously think much about that, even though i would say it's a hallmark of the trajectory of my life.
00:06:41
Speaker
Certainly multiple displacements, being refugees, something that I fundamentally inherited from my parents and their parents. and a kind of general restlessness that I think I had as a child. Even now, I'm kind of one of those people with but the supposed shaking leg syndrome.
00:07:02
Speaker
I'm like, I don't really know how to stand still. That didn't really stop me from staying in like New York for so long, which it became the city that I lived in longest.
00:07:16
Speaker
But maybe because, again, like New York is very intense and very dynamic and all those things that kind of can contain or at least hold told what I was kind of doing or how I was transforming.
00:07:29
Speaker
But and the reason why I went there, I think, is also because I just didn't think that what I wanted or how I imagined my life would be able to be or to become while I was living in in and Chicago so or Chicagoland.
00:07:46
Speaker
So it I guess in a way, it's always been moving from one place to other to seek or to experience something new. might The final kind of impulse to or push for me to leave New York was I want to do more outdoorsy shit. Like I wanted to do more camping and all these things that it's not impossible to do in New York, but it's certainly kind of less the cultural milieu to do those things. And despite my
00:08:17
Speaker
what I call it, like I said, the Seattle Interregnum, even though it wasn't particularly fruitful creatively, it did. It was worthwhile. like you know i definitely learned to love the outdoors, enjoy things like bouldering and that kind of thing. And I do like camping, even though I, again, now and I'm back in a city where it's that's not really a kind of focus. It's not really the culture, but I do look forward to those kinds of things and I'm not afraid of that. So...
00:08:47
Speaker
Yeah, I guess in a way that that motion is part of this ever-persistent desire to experience new things. And I kind of let my myself get animated by it and also be taken like a wave to those places, to those things.
00:09:05
Speaker
If I'm not mistaken, Daniel, did you not just participate in the annual Red Dress Run in New Orleans? What was that like? Yeah, it's the first time I actually bothered to do the running part, even though we didn't really run either. we kind of walked, which is kind of but a very new ah New Orleans thing, which is kind of like making it our own parade to a degree. So the Red Dress Run is is produced by a ah group of runners. They say we're a drinking group with a running habit.
00:09:38
Speaker
That's amazing. That's right. And so they, yeah, at 9 a.m., m they open up the taps for the beer. And that's an hour before we kick off and run. ah It's fun. It's like you get everyone in this, not everyone, but so many people in the city donning a red dress and doing this thing. Again, plenty. It's a fundraiser. a Plenty of people do not run.
00:10:01
Speaker
They just put on a dress and they go into the quarter and they just party, which is Very New Orleans. So yeah it was fun. I enjoy it every year.
00:10:13
Speaker
Part of it is kind of, but you're supposed to just get a dress from consignment shop or something like that. Like just find something. You can see that people put effort into it. And it's so you get to see some of that creativity.
00:10:26
Speaker
i saw a photo of of ah a friend who made a red dress out of red solo cups. And had a headpiece that was one of those giant red solo cups. It it was really impressive.
00:10:37
Speaker
and so, yeah, I mean, it's that kind of like DIY fashion or ah joy and creativity. That's a hallmark of New Orleans and really love seeing that. So that's why I just love participating in that kind of thing.
00:10:52
Speaker
That feels all like everything I know about New Orleans is now we're all going to make gowns and i and try to endure when parade. what What was it a fundraiser for, by the way?
00:11:03
Speaker
It's usually a they just raise an amount of money and then they kind of re-grant it to a number of organizations. And last year they had made a point to to grant money to a trans organization, I believe, because they got into some hot water.
00:11:22
Speaker
as a former, I guess, board member or something from this organization it's that made some dumb, like disparaging remarks or something. i think trans people. And so that actually last year kind of there was a kind of protest bar crawl called the blue dress bar crawl that happened. And then they kind of sort of righted their ship and ah made amends.
00:11:50
Speaker
ah But, you know, it's we can talk a lot about how organizations do more or less bandaging bandaging PR damage spin and whatnot.
00:12:02
Speaker
And the question of whether or not they're very earnest is a whole other thing. I love a counter protest or a counter party. Oh, yeah, we do that well. So we recently had a a beloved restaurant, kind of, they were told by their new, the building's new landlord from New York, sent them a text saying that they needed to vacate completely 60 days.
00:12:29
Speaker
Well, that nothing is you can't hide that kind of thing in New Orleans. And so that mobilized a whole bunch of people in the city to make a stink.
00:12:40
Speaker
And someone i know decided to kind of throw a party or a protest called the Night of a Thousand Monas because it was the restaurant is called Mona Lisa's at more Mona Lisa and the Italian restaurant in the border. And garnered a lot of media attention and We were before actually the landlords had kind of changed their mind. This was going to be this big protest and party and everything. There's been ah earlier this year, there was a ah person who complained that a restaurant, their bubble machine was blowing bubbles into his beverage or something like that. He's not from here either, but he moves into the corridor. Actually, I guess he's actually not.
00:13:25
Speaker
No, this I'm mixing up my stories. I think he's the, I'm going to put him on blast. I think he's the owner of the, of Cafe du Monde. And he complained about this bubble machine. And it's like, everyone, one, we weren't going to take that. And so we did like this counter protest.
00:13:44
Speaker
At his house, people brought bubble machines, like bubble blowing guns. it was the entire, they took down the street. I mean, we're so petty here, but it's like fun enjoy it. Like bubble machines and everything, like the entire block, like people having a party in the street with bubbles.
00:14:00
Speaker
Just to say, no no, you can't do that. You can't just, you can't complain about the vibrancy, the culture of the city, just because you what you don't know how to put a cover over your martini glass or something you know it's so silly but yeah it's that's kind of our way wow that's so funny i love that i can't believe it but it's already time for us to take our first quick break so please listeners stay tuned to this incredible episode of power beyond pride where we are in conversation with daniel wk lee
Refugee Experience and Activism
00:14:45
Speaker
Welcome back. This is Power Beyond Pride, a queer change-making podcast. And I'm Melody KG here with my co-host, Kate D'Adamo. Hello. Daniel, we talked in the first segment about how you being an immigrant coming to the United States How does your experience help you relate or give you sort of lived experience context with the current political climate, especially of immigration with ICE and all of the things happening around our administration?
00:15:21
Speaker
Well, I mean, one, i mean, I will parse that. I'm not an immigrant, I'm a refugee. and that is a a specific distinction that I think we we should recognize because the reasons why anyone becomes a refugee is often something beyond the person or the subject or the family's kind of control. immigrants can decide that they want to leave where they quote unquote came from and construct a new life my parents their parents were subject to war and so we were leaving and those conditions brought us here i mean there are certainly choices that my parents made i could have certainly like my cousins been
00:16:14
Speaker
Australians instead rather than Americans or whatever. But yeah, ah being a refugee has... given me a lot of empathy towards people who are displaced so outside of their own agency and has been a driving force for my ah agitation because I'm kind of resistant to call myself an activist in this regard but my agitation for Palestinian liberation.
00:16:47
Speaker
we Certainly, they have not been given any kind of enfranchisement or agency over what happens to them, not just as a people, but personally to their bodies, to their anything.
00:17:02
Speaker
So, yeah, I mean, and with respect to or policy of for immigrants and are not immigrants, immigrants here are not even immigrants. ICE has attacked U.S. citizens kind of asking questions later, but racially targeting brown people left and right. And although I've been lucky enough to not experience that firsthand at the moment, I can only imagine fear that it engenders to people just trying to make a living or a or
00:17:39
Speaker
have enough money for the next their next meal. I'm completely aware of the the lack of kind of brown bodies that used to kind of hang out near the certain parts of the neutral ground or near a a hardware store, which is typically a place where you might find ah Central Americans or people of Mexican descent or South Americans ah trying to find day work. ah boom
00:18:11
Speaker
So, yeah, those people have been living in fear of what the state apparatus would do with them. And I'm very empathetic to that because... Certainly those were the kinds of conditions that my parents would have experienced because ultimately my parents would have were expelled from Vietnam because they are ethnic Chinese.
00:18:35
Speaker
In the late seventy s the communists had targeted ethnic Chinese for the most part because They were really the merchant class that had outsized economic and economic power, political power. And so there was an expulsion where, I mean, we're boat people.
00:18:53
Speaker
We became boat people. And yeah, so just kind of reiterate, I'm just very empathetic to to that plight. And it i I try to connect kind of the those things, the being targeted,
00:19:10
Speaker
by our government at this question of immigration and ice detention and everything and making those connections with kind of what's kind of transpired in Palestine. now We have to see those connections that we can strengthen and create more solidarity.
00:19:31
Speaker
Absolutely. And thank you so much for making that distinction here between immigrants and refugees. Certainly there's a a particularity there that is is worth noting.
00:19:47
Speaker
And as we all know, this sort of the mechanism of ICE being deployed by our administration has never really been about any sort of legal status, immigrant, refugee or otherwise. It is truly about this and this racial class dynamic where people just The administration doesn't want to see brown people. And it sort of doesn't matter whether folks are here as citizens or escaping turmoil or war. It's really sort of violent regardless. So so thank you for uplifting that, Danielle.
00:20:32
Speaker
And so I'm curious with everything going on in the world and also your life going on day-to day to day. What are you writing about these days? How is that shaping and maybe shifting your writing?
00:20:44
Speaker
Yeah, I'm writing a lot about the Gaza genocide. It's kind of in the ever present thing that's not that occupies that fully resides in my brain. mean,
00:20:59
Speaker
I consume a lot of social media about it. i in a way, my feeling is that and we and i owe witness if we are unable to force the governments to do something of consequence that, that I owe witness to what's transpiring watch watch I've watched more horrific things than I've ever watched in my entire life.
00:21:27
Speaker
And, and it's that intensity that forces me to write, right? I don't usually write from happy places. So it's, that's kind of what I've been writing. And like, there are and of, I guess, moral dimensions to it that I've kind of wrestled with the kind of idea of disaster or like thiss just disaster porn.
00:21:50
Speaker
which I guess is which is a valid. And I think it has, especially when we talk about messaging and communications and certainly with fiction, I'm not certain it necessarily applies with poetry, at least if we're trying to just account or make it ah to testify, so to speak, of what's happening.
00:22:12
Speaker
But I am so conscious of that. I don't want to... center myself in their struggle. But actually, the most recent poem I wrote is my or drafted poem kind of questions this idea of creating empathy by guiding your audience or a reader through your own, your own trauma or your own experience of pain in order to facilitate them, them meaning your audience.
00:22:48
Speaker
having compassion and empathy towards those being denocided. So yeah, the poem says that stone away, you're kind of fucked up. Like we have to get it what I say in there is kind of a laundering, laundering, laundering their pain through me. And it's, yeah, it's a curious thing. And i don't really,
00:23:09
Speaker
don't have a conclusion other than I wish that our sense of compassion and empathy could tra that could transcend that need to be like, oh, I i understand Daniel's particular experience about this.
00:23:24
Speaker
yeah Let the images show. let the Let the receipts do the receding. And really be able to let that empathy rule.
00:23:36
Speaker
Because I think what's really been fascinating is this backseeding of compassion for the...
Interconnected Global Issues
00:23:48
Speaker
For self-interest. Oh, we need like, why should I care about Palestinians? We have to think about abortion access and stuff like that which is true. That's also happening. But a failure to kind of see how the the desire to control the state's desire to control bodies that idea is also animated with genocide.
00:24:14
Speaker
You see, like the state in Palestine or Israel wants to control bodies in Palestine. So ah Those connections, I mean, like i I can't help but see the genocide in Gaza and Palestine not as a boutique idea, but actually the actual intersection of all intersectionalities. You can't talk about bodily autonomy when you enable a state to control all bodies.
00:24:47
Speaker
You can't talk about climate when you bomb some a an enclave that is basically six atomic bombs and has and know has a climate environmental fallout. You can't talk about children and women and all these things without also recognizing that those people in Palestine are also experiencing those things, disability justice, et cetera. Like over 80% people people in gaza who need assistance with like a like good wheelchair or something like that they don't have it they or they have lost it so that place is also the moral compass and the intersection of all these all these struggles and a way a failure to
00:25:36
Speaker
to to me, a failure year to grasp that is to put national borders on our compassion, on our empathy, and not see those interconnectedness and that al that intersection. And even though it's not within our borders, that just kind of speaks to again, this idea that, oh, our compassion and our empathy has borders, which is,
00:26:03
Speaker
to me fundamentally and morally bankrupt. Absolutely. she I love how you're shaping it in that way of talking about these cross-regional, these cross-sectional, because I think it really highlights how arbitrary these national borders are. Like we consider them so sacrosanct and they're brand new and they don't really care about the climate change. Does it stop at the border of the United States? It's going to float over to Canada. It's going to float over to Mexico.
00:26:35
Speaker
um And so I appreciate you shaping that empathy within such global terms. I also appreciate, Daniel, your sort of connecting the dots and lines for us and for the listeners, because I think one of the hardest things that I see the general public kind of can try to contend with is that exact thing, right? Is why should i care about x y Z? That's happening over there.
00:27:02
Speaker
What does that have to do with me and the things I care about? Yeah. And I think part of our work as activists and certainly as queer activists, we tend to we tend to see that interconnectedness in a different way and act on it.
00:27:22
Speaker
And, you know, I've really felt like our work, the royal hour, my work has sort of been to try and help folks Connect those dots for themselves because because you're exactly right. Those issues are not.
00:27:39
Speaker
They're not siloed. They're not. They're completely indicative of bigger issues that are all all deeply connected. So thank you.
00:27:52
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, there's always these ideological guardrails that can like distort our vision and our move, our actions for compassion and empathy.
00:28:06
Speaker
and We have to be able to look past them or to throw them away if they're no longer applicable, right?
00:28:17
Speaker
Pinkwashing, which is this idea like propaganda tool that Israel uses to kind of position itself as an LGBTQ haven for LGBTQ people in the Middle East.
00:28:31
Speaker
It's always like this talking point where, oh, if if you were in Gaza or if you were in Palestine, they would throw throw you off the roof. or And the reality is that when you don't have food to eat, water to drink or anything, no one is thinking about it.
00:28:49
Speaker
No one cares. Like if your hierarchy of needs. I think there's actually a, there's a sociological term about that. Like in your hierarchy of needs, like we're just trying to survive and no one gives a shit about whether or not like you kiss,
00:29:05
Speaker
boys and stuff like that not to say that there isn't peril and there isn't antagonism or conservatism or things that can be antagonistic towards your identity but ultimately you can't indulge we'll say and the intricacies of your identity when you when your just life is at peril yeah you And there are queer Palestinians.
00:29:31
Speaker
They live and they thrive and they exist not just here in the diaspora, but also there. And their concerns are the same as everyone else's there. Will I survive a bombing? Will my child or my kin survive?
00:29:48
Speaker
So, yeah, I mean, the that ideology has can can be, or can be really horrifying and behooves us to always be introspective of the way how an ideology might be blinding us and becoming a obstacle and a hindrance of our ability to feel compassion to see people as humans etc and i kind of feel like we're at this moment where we are in a
00:30:27
Speaker
human we mean we meaning humans are in a at a moment of reckoning of do we want to be the kind of creature on this planet that continually chooses to look away when group truly the most vulnerable are being violently, well, having met violence met it upon them.
00:31:00
Speaker
Yeah, absolutely. Let's take a short break here. Stay with us because we will be back in a minute to share some fun facts, plus a speed round of questions to get to know Daniel W. K. Lee.
Poetry Community and Influences
00:31:20
Speaker
Welcome back to Power Beyond Pride, where we are talking with our fellow host and literary genius, Daniel W. Kaley. So just to change up a little bit here and shift our focus, you are currently involved in a bunch of different community organizations in New Orleans, especially around poetry and spoken word and literary societies. How has that been? What is working with those groups like?
00:31:44
Speaker
Well, I would say, i mean, I'm not particular to one group. I think what's so amazing about New Orleans poetry community is that it is as, as one of our kind of local writers, Maurice Carlos Ruffin said, we're not a rat race.
00:32:05
Speaker
and we really do celebrate each other's wins. When I first moved here, I just started going to literary readings and that kind of thing. And I just kept on showing up. And then eventually people would ask me if I was interested in reading whatever. This is after the pandemic, because I had just moved to New Orleans. I had moved to New Orleans in December 2019.
00:32:26
Speaker
of twenty nineteen And then we had the Ponder Replay. And then I was actually doing a lot of readings, virtual readings, which helped me because I had not been doing any readings in Seattle for sure.
00:32:38
Speaker
But helped me become a better reader and gave me the confidence to the readings, to read in public here in New Orleans. And yeah, there was just an open, open community that and is very inviting. it encouraged, it's encouraging.
00:32:54
Speaker
Again, it's not, oh, that, that person won an award. There were, and we don't, I don't understand, like their work sucks. Like no one, is As long as I've been here, I've never really heard people like be that way.
00:33:07
Speaker
And so that's really amazing. And I think that our ethos is the, is to raise the water. So all ships rise on a situation. I, I honestly don't think that anyone has identified nemeses and, and just kind of work out of or animated by, i don't know, ah petty competition. Maybe, I don't know, but I haven't really seen that or experienced it myself, which makes the kind of the that's so the whole thing, like the whole community and experience of being in a creative discipline within the city so nourishing.
00:33:48
Speaker
And if anything, if you want to be in a community of creatives, i mean, and I would hope that you want to be even if it's a micro community, that they nourish you creatively or at least emotionally so that you can thrive in your art or your creative production. So, yeah, I mean, I fully I mean, there are plenty of people who are from New Orleans who probably won't love me saying, come on down, come on in. They're like, oh, you can stay wherever you are at. We got plenty of carpetbaggers.
00:34:24
Speaker
But the if you are a creative, though, this i think that this city is special for creative types. in being, i don't know, magical and inspiring and kind of getting you to want to write and to be able to find community with other creatives who are also encouraging so you can be the most creative you can be. That's great.
00:34:54
Speaker
I love a supportive artist community. So good to hear. Are there any particular authors or and artists or activists who have sort of influenced you in your life, your writing or your other work?
00:35:09
Speaker
For sure. i mean, the two of my favorite poets are really, they did write political poetry, one more famously than the other. One would be Audre Lorde, who I think is so consequential that she should be taught alongside James Baldwin.
00:35:30
Speaker
i think their insights in the world are on par with each other. And I love Baldwin. And i i think that Lord should be elevated to there.
00:35:42
Speaker
i was disappointed to learn that, I mean, looking back through history, i was disappointed to learn that Lorde's fallout with June Jordan had a lot to do with her lack of solidarity with June Jordan and her solidarity with the Palestinian people.
00:36:00
Speaker
And they never really kind of like healed that tremendous wound, which is unfortunate. But June Jordan has become more of a and a later influenced. Agha Shahad Ali, who was my favorite poet of all time, he I don't think he set out to write political poetry, quote unquote, whatever that means.
00:36:19
Speaker
But if you read his work, you especially the love poems he wrote, they are political. the it's he just writes such spectacularly that it kind of changed my writing ats completely.
00:36:39
Speaker
ah There is a poet named Chan Chan who writes... what I call profound levity or ah he writes poems that are very seems very light and often very funny.
00:36:52
Speaker
But then he brings up something so insightful, so profound, and it just is and jarring in a good way and yeah i'm just ravenous to read his work and i've been lucky enough to meet him and everything and he's delightful and charming there's just so many writers out there that really we should hear them we should read them and it's unfortunate for the i would say for most of our kind of reading public that we don't even think of contemporary poets unless we go to
00:37:26
Speaker
Unless we go to grad school or something like that, because otherwise, Polish education in this country is like dead poet, dead poet, dead poet, dead poet, and then maybe more dead poets. So find a poet that's alive that you want to hear and and then start like spreading out from there. Who are they reading? Who inspired them? And then, and keep on going.
00:37:50
Speaker
You, I think you'll be enriched and especially because I think the role of the poet these days is at this point, the role that has been surrendered by the journalist, at least in the West to which is to articulate a truth to,
00:38:04
Speaker
or to speak to truth and ah through a writing, figure out the world in a way that Western journalism has become really just stenography to power.
00:38:16
Speaker
So i think there is a tremendous role for poets in that regard. I want to fulfill that to a degree. My next manuscript is very much that. It's very different from my first book, Anatomy of Want.
00:38:28
Speaker
It is decisively political and I'm excited for it to get into the world at some point as I continue to refine and rework it and everything like that. My first book cost, though it took me like 15 years to write and this one's taken me five, six years. So I feel like, I mean, I'm not Sade or Adele where I can put out some things every 10 years. oh well maybe, but I think i have to be a little bit more prolific.
00:38:58
Speaker
I'm going to be mulling over that concept of poets taking the role of journalists for a while. I really enjoy thinking about that and how both of them, it's about the act of witnessing.
00:39:12
Speaker
And one is now just seen as kind of a spokesperson, as opposed to witnessing the world and putting language to that.
00:39:24
Speaker
That's a really, it's a really interesting idea. It's a really impactful idea. And it shapes a lot, I think, about how we should think about art right now. and So thank you for offering them. For sure. I mean, honestly, I didn't really come to that insight until i i went to i went to New York to speak to the students or NYU Gallatin where my former writing teacher, who was also very influential, Scott Hightower, I went to his class to just to talk to his students. And one of the students asked me, what is poetry? And I just off the cuff kind of said, poetry is just
00:39:57
Speaker
trying to make sense of your world. And it all kind of like came together for me in my own brain that yes, that's exactly what it is. You're just trying to figure out the world and your place in it and even the world's place in itself.
Exploring Truth Through Poetry
00:40:09
Speaker
And there's been a little bit of a vacuum where where journalism is just regurgitating the narratives that existing power wants you to hear.
00:40:22
Speaker
And the receipts are out there in the world. And to see that Western journalism for the most part has kind of failed that way. And so we, we ought to look for to the poets to articulate, to envision the world that it is now.
00:40:37
Speaker
If I were a an alien coming to the U S and all I knew, or what I would learn about the U S was through mainstream media. Really, i would just be as loose as the people who run this country.
00:40:50
Speaker
So that, i think, is a beautiful place for us to wrap this conversation, which has been really beautiful. But to think about telling the story of the place we're in the world and telling the story of the world's place within itself.
00:41:04
Speaker
So thank you for offering so much today. So we are going to turn to our speed round question where we get to know you even a little better. So this is where we ask some questions and you don't get any time to think about it.
00:41:17
Speaker
You just need to give us the first answer that comes to you.
Speed Round: Personal Insights
00:41:20
Speaker
Are you ready to be on the other side? ah Yes, I'm going to try to get that reptilian brain going. OK, here we go.
00:41:28
Speaker
What's your favorite city to live in? New Orleans. What is the last thing that made you laugh really hard? Oh, goodness. Oh, i am fortunate that I am around a lot of funny people and I've always been around a lot of funny people and it's just constant.
00:41:51
Speaker
So, oh i don't know. It's probably, oh i was watching, i was watching, I think a TikTok earlier today. Oh yes, it's it was, this content creator was like,
00:42:05
Speaker
saying this very gay stuff about, oh, this is mother. Mother was like serving. She was serving... See you wendy take see you next next Tuesday. And so, and then the next person was saying, trying to say those, that's, and also a queer person, like trying to say say those, that kind of like vernacular was, but completely misfiring.
00:42:29
Speaker
it was just reading so horribly, but it was so funny because it just wasn't making any sense or was just so completely offensive, but it was so funny. i was just watching it earlier. I was like, I was crying. It was so funny.
00:42:42
Speaker
Amazing. ah Do you have a favorite midnight snack? i no i don't think so. I mean, i love savory, salty foods. if If I weren't so, I mean, I'm not that lazy, but if I were just to wake up and eat something, which I would just pull it whatever was in the refrigerator and just be something savory, I think.
00:43:10
Speaker
Nice. What's your ideal date? My ideal date would, don't, I've learned something very profound on on a date about eight years ago in Seattle.
00:43:22
Speaker
I kind of went on a date with a guy from San Francisco. He came up and we were talking about dating. And he said to me, dating is just getting to know someone.
00:43:35
Speaker
And it's absolutely true. And if you kind of embrace the idea of going on a date or dating is just this process of getting to know someone. the all the kind of like expectations and everything just kind of fall away.
00:43:48
Speaker
And then you can just be like, oh, this is what I learned about this person. And maybe tonight, like, what I've learned, I just want to freak them. Like maybe there's just going to be sex at the end of it or whatever, or maybe there's something more interesting that I kind of want to learn more and in a specific context.
00:44:06
Speaker
And so like a, the perfect date is a kind of, I guess for me, a funny, but slow, on unwrapping of that person. Oh, that's interesting. Like you I took off the bow and you showed me this. And as we talk, I'm seeing something else. and So that, yeah, that unwrapping process ah ah where we just are vibing, we're kind of getting each other. The conversation is good.
00:44:34
Speaker
it can be in any context. There's nothing entirely prescriptive. I think the kind of one-on-one quality of discovering each other that's so intentional and wondrous and invested and open. i think that's what makes a a date a really good date, at least.
00:44:57
Speaker
Sweet. What's your favorite way to make someone laugh? Sarcasm, you know, I'm at the knees. And so I have I wrote a poem recently about Tanzanese being sarcasm's mother tongue.
00:45:11
Speaker
And i really with sarcasm everywhere. And so i love being sarcastic. I love also embarrassing people and like very slight subtle ways are Our producer, Shane, can attest I have a lot of compunction when it having to do with that kind of thing. So, yeah, i and it also gives me a lot of joy to see someone turn various shades of bright red by embarrassing them.
00:45:40
Speaker
What do you think is the sexiest song? Ooh, the sexiest song. i i want to say it might be a tricky song. It's called Overcome. i has this very dark, deep bass line. The vibe is very dark. It's like it's a...
00:46:00
Speaker
It's a sex jam for sure. If you want to like get freaky with it, it will bring you back to the aughts, I'm sure, because it's like what they used to call trip hop. But it's pretty phenomenal. So I would check that out. That's one of my favorites. Tricky's Overcome.
00:46:15
Speaker
The gift trip hop to elder millennials. Yeah. i OK, who has the best Bloody Mary in New Orleans? Oh, best bloody.
00:46:28
Speaker
I haven't had a lot, to be honest. I've been drinking a lot less, too. i i i don't know. beignets. Who has the best beignets in New Orleans?
00:46:41
Speaker
This is these are this is the real question. but We're waiting for troubled waters. Best beignets. We're trying to get you in trouble is really. Yeah.
00:46:51
Speaker
Okay. I mean, not I don't. Okay. Well, I'm mostly plant based, but vegan beignets have been severely disappointing in my life. i would say it's been a while, but I do enjoy at least in my memory, I enjoyed the beignets from Cafe des Beignets on Royal Street more than Cafe du Mall.
00:47:16
Speaker
But I would be remiss not to mention the stuffed beignets at the Vintage on Magazine Street, where my friend Chris works at. Those are quite spectacular. But if you want to actually try something that's super New Orleans, that that actually precede beignets, you would try Kalas.
00:47:33
Speaker
Kalas, C-A-L-A-S, I think. And they're kind of like beignets, but they're made out rice flour. And those precede the existence of the beignets. And there's a little shop in Treme near the quarter that they make them and it's right kind of ah right on the street so to speak well it's not on the street but they have like tables and everything on the street i wish i remember what that they what that company or whatever it's called but callas yeah amazing good to know what is your favorite color to wear
00:48:08
Speaker
My favorite color to wear is red, but I also love a deep purple. I did live in New York between the ages of 18 to 35.
00:48:21
Speaker
So I wore a lot of black as well. There was definitely a period of my life, as well especially when was at NYU, where my entire closet or wardrobe was either black, dark blue, or gray. That's it.
00:48:35
Speaker
So, but I did break out of that, but i would say red is, or actually bright pink. I love an unexpected, like hot pink, especially because I get dark. I'm one of the steep tea Chinese, not like porcelain Chinese. but but So if I wear pink or a light blue, it looked really pops.
00:48:55
Speaker
Yeah. Amazing. What's something unexpected that you find deeply liberating? Unexpected, but deep. Oh, I recently become a person who does THC drinks.
00:49:10
Speaker
And so I've not really been like oh a weed person only because I would fail. i would not get high. And edibles would not typically get me and a high either.
00:49:24
Speaker
But yeah, it's we have a fantastic company, a local company, I believe, called Crescent Nine. And they make a phenomenal THC drink that doesn't have that like weedy aftertaste.
00:49:37
Speaker
So they're very, especially their ginger lemonade flavor. And I know my limit. If I have more than two, i get the the munchies, which I hate, and or that cottonmouth thing, which I don't like either. so two cheese sheltzers have become kind of my thing. I guess that's in a way that's more expected, right?
00:49:59
Speaker
I love it. Maybe I love it. And we still appreciate the flavor recommendations. Yeah, that's true. And finally, what does power beyond pride mean to you?
Power Beyond Pride and Identity
00:50:09
Speaker
Power beyond pride means that we look outside of ideas of just our, or centralizing our sexuality to kind of harness political power
00:50:30
Speaker
or that we can inhabit other kinds of ah spaces that are adjacent to our identities and those can be primary and they can be liberating that although important our sexuality isn't always everything and it doesn't have to always be the or kind of organizing principle of our lives.
00:50:55
Speaker
i guess and what I'm really just trying to say is to kind of give ourselves a lot of leeway to continue to explore ourselves and our identities and let that empower us and it's okay if our kind of sexuality which is in so many ways driven us, especially as we we're young and so forward in so many ways that can take a backseat and we can still find empowering, creative, wonderful ways to enjoy our lives that influence and empower others that aren't just about LGBTQ pride.
00:51:35
Speaker
And Daniel, where can people follow you in your work? They can follow me at Daniel WK Lee, that's L-E-E, on TikTok. I'm trying to become a little bit more of a TikTok person as try de-platform myself for Meta. It's not going well, but as I also mentioned that you can find me on Strong Plum on Instagram.
00:51:58
Speaker
Or Daniel W.K. Lee at Blue Sky. or you can join my Patreon, which I would really love. and and It helps even if you're just like it goes ah a contributor, which is like five bucks a month or something like that. Like those little, those little contributions do help me with kind of like being able to go to readings in different cities and that kind of thing. So that's patreon.com slash Daniel W.K. Lee as well.
00:52:27
Speaker
Daniel, thank you so much for being here. We're out of time for this conversation, but we hope you'll join us again, maybe in some sort of host capacity. Absolutely. This was so much fun.
00:52:40
Speaker
Daniel, thank you so much for everything you shared. And um I just love getting to know you better. And everyone can follow your work. Again, it's Daniel W. K. Lee on TikTok and Blue Sky. And please do follow on Patreon.
00:52:54
Speaker
I'm your co-host, Kate, former Gaby and recovering gifted kid. And you can find me at reframedhealthandjustice.com or on Instagram at Harm Reduction Femmes. And I'm your co-host, Melody KG, Minneapolis-based artivist and provocateur. And you can follow me on Instagram at Melody KG, on Substack at Melody KG, and a few other places. Do your digging.
00:53:21
Speaker
Remember to subscribe and get your friends to subscribe to Power Beyond Pride on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. And check out our site at powerbeyondpride.com.
00:53:33
Speaker
Power Beyond Pride is a project from A Great Idea, queer-owned design and content agency. Learn more about them at agreatidea.com. This episode is produced by Shane Lucas.
00:53:44
Speaker
Maddie Bynum is the project developer. Our editor is Jarrett Redding with support from Ian Wilson. And we're both part of this podcast's awesome host team, which also includes Daniel. And we invite you to send in your questions and comments at powerbeyondpride.com.
00:53:59
Speaker
Check out our new episodes each week. And we look forward to queer changemaking with you next time. Thank you from all of us at Power Beyond Pride.