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Episode 029 - Shocking West Ham lose to Forrest! Match Reaction
18 Plays1 month ago
A poor West Ham get embarrassed by an in Form Nottingham Forrest. Tom and Jacob discuss the game and where we stand as a club having been so poor under Lopetegui. Can West Ham turn around their season under Lopetegui and will he survive if West Ham lose to Everton this weekend?
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Transcript
Post-Game Disappointment and Moyes Era
00:00:09
Global Sports Podcast Network
Hello, guys, and welcome back to another episode of the Daily GSPN West End Podcast. I'm joined by Jacob. How are you doing, mate?
00:00:17
Jacob
um Not amazing off the back of ah what we've just seen.
00:00:19
Global Sports Podcast Network
Yeah, I think...
00:00:25
Global Sports Podcast Network
Yeah, that's... that's my reaction as well.
00:00:25
Jacob
a I'll be honest, but i didn't I didn't watch the whole thing. I watched probably three quarters of the game, and which at that stage, the the game was already gone anyway. So yeah, we we're kind of um back to square one a little bit, I think. Do you agree?
Team Identity Crisis and Training Issues
00:00:48
Global Sports Podcast Network
Yeah, I don't even think it's back to square one in regards to kind of the general feeling around the club. It feels like exactly the same as it did under David Moyes when it was really bad.
00:01:00
Global Sports Podcast Network
But I think the thing that's most frustrating is we don't have any sort of identity.
00:01:01
Jacob
Mm hmm.
00:01:05
Global Sports Podcast Network
is It's so frustrating that we're having so much there's There's so little to show for what is happening on the training ground. You can see the players, like especially in this game. we'll We'll talk about more of the specifics of the game in a second. But it seems like the players are so frustrated because yeah there's no team identity. It seems like the players don't really know what they're doing. There's so many games where we're sacrificing a whole half because we're just not good enough. And then changes happen and we get slightly
Reflecting on Man United Game Performance
00:01:40
Global Sports Podcast Network
better. but
00:01:41
Global Sports Podcast Network
There's there's not been an instance. I think you could maybe argue with crystal palace at the start of the season We've not played a game and looked better than the other team It's only been when the other team is really really poor And we're just not as poor that we've been able to get a result like you look at the the man united result Obviously, we were talking about it really positively and I was really happy about it. I was really positive and you know when When things are tough, you try and look to positive. So the fact that we did beat Man United is, you know, it was something to ah be happy about. But when you actually look at the specifics of the game, it wasn't necessarily that we were great. It's just that they were very poor and we were just slightly better. So when you continue to see us performing poorly with very little identity to show for what's happening, you know, day in, day out on the training ground, it's, it's just really depressing.
00:02:35
Jacob
Yeah, I think off the back of the Man United game where we, let's be honest, we didn't play well, especially the first half, um off the back of that to nick a win in the fashion that we did. I was not expecting the performance that we got, to be honest. I i thought we were going to come with more fire and it was just the opposite, to be honest.
Midfield-Forward Disconnect
00:03:05
Jacob
I think we're both sort of running out of things to really say at this point. um It just feels like, yeah, like you said, we've got no real identity. There's not really any clear objective for a lot of the players from what I can see, you know. um It just seems to be a huge disconnect, in my opinion, between the midfield and the forward players like that there's no connection and this very little chance is created like we had four shots on target that whole game which is not enough to win a game in the Premier League it's just not and we thought by now it would have picked up but obviously it hasn't it's been very up and down and
00:03:57
Jacob
I think the next game that we've got is definitely make or break for Lopategi.
Critical Game for Lopategi
00:04:05
Jacob
I think there's a lot at stake for him now. um a If we don't get a win in the next game, which we need to, you know, they've just been beaten by Southampton. So there's no reason why we can't as well. and You know, we've got the setback of Alvarez is going to be suspended, um which is just another blow, really. It's just another another thing we could do without. he's He's quite a crucial cog in the team, um you know especially for a team that's leaking goals in the fashion that we are, to have him not available with the likes of Calvert Lewin around. It is worrying.
00:04:55
Jacob
um Yeah, it's just not positive at the minute, I don't think.
00:05:00
Global Sports Podcast Network
no it's you just think that if we do play really poorly against Everton and we get beaten that Lopate you'll go it's it's not even necessarily just the results because losing to Forrest in you know the form that they're in it's not a bad thing necessarily you know it's not
00:05:09
Jacob
Yeah.
00:05:17
Global Sports Podcast Network
like we're losing against a team who's really poor and aren't doing well. You know, they're really high up the table and they've had some really good results this season. So losing to Forrest isn't really the point. It's just the way that we went about it and the way that we seem to repeatedly go about games.
Fabiansky's Performance Amidst Defeat
00:05:31
Global Sports Podcast Network
It's just so lackluster. There's so many poor performances in the team that how many players can you individually scrutinize before you look at the kind of bigger picture?
00:05:46
Global Sports Podcast Network
Because if you look at individually the plays in this game, I think there's very, is there anyone that had a good game? I'd argue maybe Fabiansky. I know obviously we could still conceded three goals, but some, a couple of the saves he made right at the end of the game were amazing. And it's really, guy it's really disheartening when you're looking for good performances and you highlight your keeper who's already conceded three goals being one of the only plays that you can say had a good game. You know, it's.
00:06:14
Jacob
Yeah, it's true though. It is true. um He actually, you know, had a good display the goals that we conceded there wasn't a huge amount he could do about. um And I think that possibly if it was Ariola, maybe it wouldn't have gone the same way. Maybe it could have been five.
Tactics vs. Individual Skills
00:06:36
Jacob
I'm not to say that I don't believe in Ariola, but Fabiansky had a particularly good game overall so I think that ah you know that's something to be happy about um in the grand scheme of things but it's really we're we're kind of clutching at straws now so there's there's very little else to take away from the game other than the fact that it was just a poor performance and we didn't create enough and
00:07:07
Jacob
They scored a couple of great goals. Chris Woods on fire at the moment, um found some kind of form. I don't really know how or why, but he's doing great at the minute and we just weren't prepared for it.
00:07:24
Global Sports Podcast Network
No, not at all. In in the podcast that I did, in the pre-match prediction, I mentioned Chris Wood and about how we do need to be careful. And him scoring isn't necessarily the biggest red flag when it comes to our team performance because, you know, he's doing so well this season. You go, oh, okay, Chris Wood scores. It's not ideal, but when a striker is in that good form, you kind of understand it. But The other thing that I spoke about, the other players that I highlighted was basically the swine of their team, the goalkeeper, the two center backs and the DM. And when you do play against a team that has such a ah solid foundation, they know how they play, they know how they set up, and they do it really well.
00:08:06
Global Sports Podcast Network
They can just elevate their performances above ours because if you if you look at man for man We have the better squad easily position for position.
00:08:13
Jacob
Mm hmm.
00:08:14
Global Sports Podcast Network
We have more quality but if you don't have the building blocks of solid tactics that everyone understands and a regimented system that's been worked at and perfected and you know, people that are playing in positions that they understand, then you're never going to have any sort of success.
00:08:31
Global Sports Podcast Network
Like, especially in the Premier League, you have to start with really solid building block foundations. And the the formation that we started with, it was so confusing because it didn't seem like our strongest players were in their strongest positions.
00:08:47
Global Sports Podcast Network
Like you look at Somerville, Somerville who had a good game against Man United,
00:08:48
Jacob
know Yeah.
00:08:50
Global Sports Podcast Network
In this game, he was playing as like ah an inside left forward, which when he played well against Man you United, he was out wide. And we had the full backs pushing really wide, being the widest players. And we had three center backs and it was just not good. It wasn't good enough. ah I just, I'm really struggling to understand what's happening on the training ground because for so so many times after a game, we've spoken about, oh, you know we're still trying to work out what the formation is, who the players are, and then it you know it it happens and it happens and it happens. At what point is there gonna be an identity that's formed from that? Because right now, I don't even really know what our identity
Formation Changes and Confusion
00:09:39
Global Sports Podcast Network
is. It's supposed to be possession orientated, but when we're going to a the sort of formation that we were playing in today,
00:09:48
Global Sports Podcast Network
why have we, like what is the reason for choosing that formation in the first place? And why have we deviated from the formation that we've been playing with so far? You understand it all, like we've not been playing as well, so change it up, but we've just beaten Man United.
00:10:01
Global Sports Podcast Network
So why are we changing the whole system completely to not suit the way that our best players play?
00:10:05
Jacob
Yeah.
00:10:08
Global Sports Podcast Network
Because I think Jared Bowen works best to wide right and Somerville works best wide left. So I don't know why we're bringing them both into this kind of, half space situation and having the fullbacks push really high and then it's leaving our three center backs who if you look at our defense this season hasn't been the strongest so making them change roles just seems like a weird move to me like i think we just need to go back to what we were doing and try to get a formation that's just set and work at being defensively solid first because
00:10:46
Global Sports Podcast Network
We have the players to do it. It just doesn't seem like Lopategi has been able to get that out of them so far. Yeah, I don't know. um We're gonna go to the first advert and then we'll get back to this depressing West End chat after that.
00:10:58
Jacob
yeah
00:11:21
Jacob
Thank
Red Cards and Player Frustration
00:11:23
Global Sports Podcast Network
Okay, so the one thing I wanna get onto now is this discipline issue that we seem to be having. First it was Kudos, now it's Alvarez. For me, I think it's frustration at what's happening with the club because you know there there's no history of bad discipline from either of those players playing for West Ham. And then suddenly into the season, we've had two games where you know players have been sent off. So how do you feel about that?
00:11:54
Jacob
Yeah, um I think with the Cudus one I think that's quite clear to see that that that was just pure frustration and just just anger really towards the current situation that they find themselves in and Alvarez's was more of a just poor decision making maybe some frustration built into it as well. um But he's we we know what sort of player he's like. He will always almost always pick up a yellow card when he plays for us. So the way he went about his red card was very disappointing because from that position, we we had very little chance. that We already had very little chance. um
00:12:49
Jacob
and then losing him just made us even weaker. So yeah, I don't think his is so much of a ah discipline issue. We know he's what tackling is like. We know how many yellow cards he picks up. I don't remember how many he picked up last year, but it was one of the most in the league. um And I think that he will be a huge miss. And I don't think necessarily the discipline is the issue. I think i think it's more the decision making, to be honest. I think you know ah could not see that happening under David Moyes. In my eyes, he would have got absolutely ripped into for doing what what he did. um But when I saw Alvarez come off the pitch,
00:13:44
Jacob
Lopategi just looked at at the game going on and ah didn't really have anything to say. no There was no luck of disappointment. There was nothing to tell Alvarez, you know, oh, what the hell are you doing? Sort of thing. um And I think that makes a big difference with players, you know, feeling like, oh, we can get away with certain things and With Alvarez, we know how important he is and it's going to be a huge miss for us. We could do with keeping all of our best players, you know, at the moment to give ourselves any kind of chance of picking up points. But now we've got no kudos and no Alvarez. So that's not the situation we want to be in, basically.
00:14:34
Global Sports Podcast Network
Yeah I think the the one question I'd ask you is do you think that Alvarez makes that challenge if he's confident in the defence that he has in front of him and I know obviously it's really subjective and players make decisions in the heat of the moment but I just think if if we had more defensive solidity then there wouldn't be this kind of worry about players getting sent off and I think obviously they're they're different examples of red cards. you know One is for what they'd call violent conduct and one is just a poor challenge. but
00:15:08
Jacob
Yeah.
00:15:09
Global Sports Podcast Network
I think if you, if you're confident in the system that you have, you're less likely to make rash decisions. And obviously both of those are rash decisions. So I think if they have more confidence in, you know, the system, the manager with each other, those rash decisions don't happen.
00:15:18
Jacob
Yeah.
00:15:25
Global Sports Podcast Network
So I would just say, how much do you think it is to do with confidence in the team and the manager or how much do you think it is just kind of poor decision making in the moment?
00:15:37
Jacob
Yeah, I think that it, that sort of trust in your defense, it has to be there. Like you could see from the exact situation that we were in where Alvarez got the red card, there was five players, you know, within 10 yards and it was unnecessary and it wasn't the right decision. You know, the I can't remember who the player was to be honest with you. and I think it was Alanga just running towards the corner flag essentially like in that direction and to chop him down in the way he did. the There was really no reason for it. He was going you know into a non-threatening position with our bodies all around. um So I think that that that stems from
00:16:34
Jacob
maybe just it's so hard to you know rationalize it or try and put your put yourself in the players shoes to to know what he's thinking in that moment but all I can think is you know we don't want this to get embarrassing like it has been previously and you know it's got to I've got to do something in this moment my defense isn't on top like you said and Yeah, I've got to take action here and then a couple of times it's not been the right decision, basically.
00:17:09
Global Sports Podcast Network
No, it's difficult. And I think when you, when you see other players doing in the game, I think it was Somerville that had a kind of similar reaction. It's makes me feel like it's not just an issue with Alvarez specifically.
00:17:20
Global Sports Podcast Network
It's a kind of wider issue squad.
00:17:20
Jacob
Yeah. For sure, for sure. All right, we're going to get to our second and final ad now and we'll be back to talk. more about what we want to see in the next game.
00:17:57
Global Sports Podcast Network
Yes, so I think, so my my last bit on the whole Edson Alvarez situation is we can't let this Edson Edson Alvarez red card take away from the way that the game actually went.
Main Issues: Performance over Red Cards
00:18:11
Global Sports Podcast Network
We didn't lose that game because of the red card.
00:18:12
Jacob
Yeah.
00:18:14
Global Sports Podcast Network
I think we were already gonna lose the game. Like you look at how poor we were in that first half, the stage was already written to end up in us losing.
00:18:24
Global Sports Podcast Network
so we can't allow anyone, including Lopategi, to shift the blame onto him and say, you know, oh, if we don't get the red, we don't lose. I think i think if we didn't get the red, I think we still lose. So it it's kind of frustration frustrating because it takes away from the way that the the game actually went. And obviously, it's more difficult to win if you've got a red card. And that's probably kind of put the nail in the coffin in terms of our ability to go on to win that game. But we were still poor. We were really poor before it. and
00:18:55
Global Sports Podcast Network
That's been such a theme of games recently. We've started so poorly. We consider so many early goals and it just needs to improve really.
00:19:05
Jacob
Yeah, but whatever it is that Lord Pategi has got to do to get more out of these players, he has to do it and now is the time that he needs to do it because his job and the reputation of his players are on the line, in my opinion, because nothing about our you know transfer window and the players we've brought in should spell the season, you know the starts of the season that we've had. theyre We're in a better position than we were when David Moyes left and days there's no reason for this to be happening.
00:19:50
Jacob
um I know it's, we weren't expecting huge things at the start of the season, but it's got to be better than this where, you know, we'll take Nottingham Forest, for example, who have got the same as pretty much the same group of players that they had last season. Nothing, nothing has really changed for them. They've just become a better team, a better unit. And that's something that will take time for us. But in the meantime,
00:20:20
Jacob
All we can expect is good performances and not to to get embarrassed and to make poor decisions.
00:20:27
Global Sports Podcast Network
yeah and it's by now you'd expect to see some sort of idea or some sort of semblance of a good unit being made but like it just doesn't really seem like it's getting better it seems like it's getting worse and the
00:20:38
Jacob
Yeah.
Lopategi's Future Speculations
00:20:43
Global Sports Podcast Network
poor discipline record kind of shows that it just isn't getting better. So I don't ah hate being one of the fans that's like, oh, you know, maybe we do need to look at another manager and evaluating options because, you know, he's not had a huge amount of time. It's just, it's so difficult to defend him against, you know, if if if it was you, for instance, if you said that you didn't want him to continue being a manager. I'd have such a difficult time to defend against that because you completely understand why people want to get rid of him because it's just been really poor. And it's not, I keep saying that it's not about the results and
00:21:23
Global Sports Podcast Network
you know you look at the place we are in the table and it's really poor and we should be better you know it's not the worst and we're not at risk of getting relegated right now at least um but just the way we've played has been so so poor it's just not been good we've been rescued by individual performance performances and playing against teams that are just worse than us is the only real way we've been able to have any success so Yeah, I don't know what's going to happen after this Everton game if he doesn't do well and we don't do well. I think they might get rid of him, to be honest, because at what point is it so bad that you don't think you can come back for it? And I don't know. It's then who do we get to replace him is then the next worry. I think we don't want to make any rash decisions and
00:22:11
Global Sports Podcast Network
I think there is definitely a a way that we come out of this season understanding that at this point it might be a write-off and obviously that's really negative and there's still a lot of football to go but I'd hate for us to sack a courtebi and then not have a manager and then scramble to find a manager and the manager not be good and it just continues to get worse and worse so Hopefully we can find a solution within the club. Lopateki can find a system and stick to that system and we can go from there. That's that's kind of my hope.
00:22:48
Jacob
Yeah, i I totally agree with that. ah Obviously neither of us want to see our manager sacked after only, what, 10 games, um especially as there obviously wouldn't be anybody lined up at this stage to replace him and because basically all of our hopes have been pinned on this one manager and this one group of players that we've got now.
00:23:14
Jacob
and they there might come a time where they have to make that decision if they don't see improvements. um So, yeah, I think a lot rests on the Everton game, I think.
00:23:31
Global Sports Podcast Network
Do you think that if we lose he'll go?
00:23:34
Jacob
I think there's a very strong possibility that if we perform the same way that we did previously and we lose the game, I think they're going to struggle to justify it.
00:23:49
Jacob
I think they're going to have too much pressure, basically. and And what can you really say? You know, what can you really say is it's not a long time, but it's enough time to do more than what we have done.
00:24:04
Jacob
So, yeah, exactly.
00:24:05
Global Sports Podcast Network
Yeah, well it's enough time to see something, you know, to see some semblance of identity and team togetherness, but it's it's just been so poor.
00:24:11
Jacob
Mm hmm. Yeah.
00:24:14
Global Sports Podcast Network
and And it really scares me that we're even having this conversation because...
00:24:15
Jacob
Mm hmm.
00:24:20
Global Sports Podcast Network
You know, it's so easy for a club to slip into kind of mid-table mediocrity. And if we, you know, we do have a bad season this season, we get rid of Lopategi.
00:24:31
Global Sports Podcast Network
How many of our players are going to go? So many.
00:24:33
Jacob
Exactly.
00:24:33
Global Sports Podcast Network
We've got such quality in the squad that
00:24:34
Jacob
Yeah.
Podcast Conclusion and Social Media Call
00:24:36
Global Sports Podcast Network
the the thought of us getting mediocre is terrifying because all our good players are will leave so quickly. So yeah, it's scary stuff, but I guess all we can do is wait and see. I guess we have to wait for the next game.
00:24:50
Jacob
OK, then on that note, um we'll wrap it up. um So thank you all very much for listening. um Say goodbye, Tom.
00:25:00
Global Sports Podcast Network
Goodbye, mate.
00:25:01
Jacob
um Yeah, please rate this podcast five stars and check out all of our social media, which is linked in the description. um Also check out all the other podcasts um on the GSPN network, including fantasy football pod, women's football pod, and wrap ups in multiple languages. And of course the other Premier League team daily podcasts. Thank you for listening and we'll speak to you hopefully more positively soon.
00:25:29
Global Sports Podcast Network
Bye guys.