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S4 Episode 1: In conversation with Anthony Scaramucci
15 Plays1 month ago
Today John and Dejan are joined by Anthony Scaramucci, former Wall Street banker and former White House communications director. Tune in to hear us discuss Trump, Crypto and the future. Please also follow the podcast on social media @debatablediscussions, give us a 5 star review and leave a comment.
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Transcript
Trump's Political Influence and Impact
00:00:00
Speaker
Everybody gets their career hurt by Donald Trump.
00:00:02
Speaker
Everybody.
00:00:03
Speaker
So, yes, I do think that.
00:00:04
Speaker
I think that Trump has a way of hurting these people, though, too.
00:00:09
Speaker
Look at Pence now.
00:00:10
Speaker
He's irrelevant.
00:00:11
Speaker
Hurt Pence.
00:00:12
Speaker
Made him irrelevant.
00:00:14
Speaker
He'll hurt Vance.
00:00:15
Speaker
Remember, unlike you guys, you guys are very charming, very good podcast hosts because you're like good listeners.
00:00:21
Speaker
Trump's not a good listener.
00:00:23
Speaker
If you're talking and Trump's not talking, just picture his head in like a baggie.
00:00:28
Speaker
You know, he's like dying, you know, because he needs to speak.
00:00:31
Speaker
He needs the light to be on him.
00:00:33
Speaker
He needs the microphone in his face.
00:00:35
Speaker
Doesn't need it in your face.
00:00:45
Speaker
Hello and welcome to the Debatable Discussions podcast.
00:00:47
Speaker
Today we're incredibly lucky to have Anthony Scaramucci with us back again after a couple of months and this is also the celebration of our one year special.
00:00:57
Speaker
Yeah so a big thank you to Anthony.
00:00:59
Speaker
For any of our guests who don't know but I'm sure you do, Anthony is a former Wall Street banker but also White House Communications Director he was under President Donald Trump.
00:01:09
Speaker
It's great to have you on the podcast today Anthony.
00:01:11
Speaker
You're not going to tell the listeners I get fired?
00:01:13
Speaker
No?
00:01:14
Speaker
I mean, you can, it's okay.
00:01:15
Speaker
You're like British and like very polite, right?
00:01:19
Speaker
What day did you start your podcast?
00:01:21
Speaker
26th of March.
00:01:23
Speaker
So it's a few days.
00:01:24
Speaker
Congratulations.
00:01:24
Speaker
Very good.
00:01:26
Speaker
So yeah, one year special.
00:01:28
Speaker
And we thought, who better to come on?
00:01:29
Speaker
Well, it's very sweet of you guys to invite me.
00:01:31
Speaker
Thank you.
00:01:31
Speaker
It's a real pleasure.
00:01:32
Speaker
Thank you for coming.
00:01:32
Speaker
Congratulations on the show.
00:01:34
Speaker
Thank you.
Trump's World Peace Objectives: Genuine or Not?
00:01:35
Speaker
So the first question is about sort of the last couple of months with President Trump.
00:01:39
Speaker
Do you think that he will follow on from his promises to bring world peace?
00:01:45
Speaker
Do you think he can do that?
00:01:46
Speaker
Do you think he wants to do that?
00:01:47
Speaker
Or do you think that was just an election promise that's thrown in the bin?
00:01:52
Speaker
I mean, you know, I mean, let's give him the benefit of the doubt.
00:01:55
Speaker
I don't see why he wouldn't want to do that.
00:01:58
Speaker
Even if you think he's a malevolent person.
00:02:01
Speaker
I mean, it's better to have world peace.
00:02:03
Speaker
Let's say you're diabolical and, you know, having world peace, he's got all that great demonic energy about him.
00:02:09
Speaker
I mean, why wouldn't you want to have world peace?
00:02:11
Speaker
But.
00:02:12
Speaker
I think that the objectives that he wants to achieve, peace could get in the way.
00:02:20
Speaker
If you're telling me that he wants to partition the Ukraine and half of it goes to Russia, the other half is a puppet state of Russia and he has some mineral rights where the minerals in the Ukraine are quite minute and they're hard to get to.
00:02:38
Speaker
I don't know.
00:02:38
Speaker
I mean, you know, is that world peace?
00:02:40
Speaker
If I said to you, okay, look, we're going to stop the war in Russia, but we're going to end the Ukrainian sovereignty.
00:02:44
Speaker
Is that world peace?
00:02:45
Speaker
Probably not, no.
00:02:46
Speaker
Yeah.
00:02:46
Speaker
It's so subjective almost.
00:02:48
Speaker
Yeah.
00:02:48
Speaker
I don't know.
00:02:49
Speaker
Yeah.
00:02:49
Speaker
I mean, I think that is the thing.
00:02:50
Speaker
He is so unpredictable.
00:02:51
Speaker
I mean, every single headline I see, the first headline on the BBC is something different to do with him about his foreign policy.
00:02:59
Speaker
And I mean, moving the tariffs on, taking the tariffs off.
00:03:02
Speaker
Yeah.
00:03:03
Speaker
All the Greenland business.
00:03:04
Speaker
Yeah.
00:03:05
Speaker
I mean, Canada.
00:03:06
Speaker
Yeah.
00:03:07
Speaker
I mean, interestingly, thinking about Greenland, how big a part does J.D.
00:03:12
Speaker
Vance play in his foreign policy, in your opinion?
00:03:15
Speaker
Is he the main man?
00:03:17
Speaker
I think J.D.
00:03:18
Speaker
Vance is a very smart young man.
00:03:21
Speaker
He's an accomplished guy.
00:03:24
Speaker
But I think he's doing something that is going to be a grave mistake for J.D.
00:03:28
Speaker
Vance.
00:03:28
Speaker
He's trying to mimetically...
00:03:32
Speaker
be Donald Trump.
00:03:33
Speaker
So if Donald Trump says, you don't have the cards, and J.D.
00:03:36
Speaker
Vance says, like in Greenland, they don't have the cards, they're gonna lose the trade.
00:03:41
Speaker
It's embarrassing for him.
00:03:42
Speaker
My experience with Trump is that he likes to be flattered,
00:03:48
Speaker
But I don't think he likes sick of Vance that close to him.
00:03:51
Speaker
I think it turns him off.
00:03:52
Speaker
He's a little bit like a praying mantis, you know?
00:03:53
Speaker
After you have sex with a praying mantis, it turns around and bites your head off.
00:03:57
Speaker
That's Trump.
00:03:58
Speaker
You know, he ends up eating everybody
Republican Party's Success Amidst Trump's Influence
00:04:00
Speaker
around him.
00:04:00
Speaker
And so I think he's going to end up destroying Vance.
00:04:02
Speaker
But I just think that Vance is a little amateurist, the way he's trying to pretend that he's Donald Trump-lite, you know?
00:04:12
Speaker
Do you think he's throwing his career away a little bit by sort of playing this role?
00:04:17
Speaker
Everybody gets their career hurt by Donald Trump, everybody.
00:04:20
Speaker
So yes, I do think that.
00:04:21
Speaker
I think that Trump has a way of hurting these people though too.
00:04:26
Speaker
Look at Pence now, he's irrelevant.
00:04:28
Speaker
Hurt Pence, made him irrelevant.
00:04:31
Speaker
He'll hurt Vance.
00:04:32
Speaker
Remember, unlike you guys, you guys are very charming, very good podcast hosts because you're like good listeners.
00:04:38
Speaker
Trump's not a good listener.
00:04:40
Speaker
If you're talking and Trump's not talking, just picture his head in like a baggie.
00:04:45
Speaker
He's like dying.
00:04:47
Speaker
Because he needs to speak.
00:04:48
Speaker
He needs the light to be on him.
00:04:50
Speaker
He needs the microphone in his face.
00:04:52
Speaker
He doesn't need it in your face.
00:04:54
Speaker
And I think these guys have taken some energy and some attention away from him.
00:04:58
Speaker
He doesn't like that.
00:04:59
Speaker
I think he'll end up killing Vance.
00:05:01
Speaker
Not physically, but killing his career metaphorically.
00:05:04
Speaker
That's interesting though, because I remember from when Mike Pence was his vice president, you didn't hear much about Pence, did you?
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Speaker
He was almost a subdued figure.
00:05:13
Speaker
So in your opinion, working for him, does he want the limelight?
00:05:17
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Really, yeah.
00:05:18
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There's only one spotlight.
00:05:19
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You know, you got two lights on in here.
00:05:21
Speaker
You got one on you and one on you and partially one on me.
00:05:26
Speaker
And it's very generous of you guys to offer me some light.
00:05:28
Speaker
Donald Trump wouldn't do that.
00:05:29
Speaker
They'd be both on him.
00:05:31
Speaker
And all the rest of us would be in darkness and he would want to talk for the whole podcast.
00:05:36
Speaker
Do you think, you know, we've seen a sort of volcanic meeting between him and Zelensky a couple of weeks ago.
00:05:44
Speaker
What do you think the sort of people who voted for him, do you think that changes a bit of the sort of shape in the Republican Party?
00:05:52
Speaker
No, I think the Republican Party is, remember, the Republican Party is doing well in one respect.
00:05:57
Speaker
The Democrats are doing so poorly.
00:05:59
Speaker
Yeah.
00:06:00
Speaker
Remember, there's a 29% approval rating.
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Speaker
So the Republicans are at 54 on the direction of the economy, 47.
00:06:08
Speaker
on the overall approval rating.
00:06:09
Speaker
And so they're doing way better than the Democrats.
00:06:11
Speaker
But I just think that Democrats have lost the narrative.
00:06:15
Speaker
And whether you like Donald Trump or don't like Donald Trump, he has a narrative.
00:06:18
Speaker
He's prosecuting that narrative with his fan base.
00:06:22
Speaker
And I think that's why he's doing so well.
00:06:25
Speaker
Thinking about another one of perhaps Trump's big aims, something that he'd love to sort of
00:06:30
Speaker
make into fruition is this idea of annexing Canada.
Trump's Effect on Canadian Politics
00:06:34
Speaker
I mean, totally bizarre for us, for Britain as a Commonwealth country.
00:06:38
Speaker
How big an influence do you think that will have on the Canadian election?
00:06:42
Speaker
Well, it's very galvanized.
00:06:43
Speaker
Listen, that election's tight.
00:06:44
Speaker
If you look at the election, polling numbers are very close.
00:06:47
Speaker
Carney could lose.
00:06:49
Speaker
There's an anti-incumbent sentiment around the world in Western democracies.
00:06:54
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Look at what happened here.
00:06:56
Speaker
Ask the Conservative Party about
00:06:59
Speaker
Being incumbents, how did that work out for him last time, right?
00:07:03
Speaker
And so, you know, to me, I think that Carney, if he wins, it'll be the triumph that's aided and assisted by Donald Trump.
00:07:10
Speaker
I think that people are like, whoa, what is this guy trying to do to our country?
00:07:14
Speaker
We need a tough fighter.
00:07:15
Speaker
We don't need a Trump sycophant.
00:07:17
Speaker
Yeah.
00:07:17
Speaker
And I think that's why Carney could win that election.
00:07:20
Speaker
Yeah, that's quite interesting because we had a guest on, and this was before Donald Trump became president, and he was very sort of like Pierre Polivare will become the next prime minister, the next leader of Canada.
00:07:30
Speaker
But it's all changed with Trump, really.
00:07:32
Speaker
Yeah, I think the polls are narrow.
00:07:33
Speaker
I mean, if you tell me he's going to win, the Conservatives are going to win, it's not going to surprise me.
00:07:38
Speaker
But I think if you said to me six weeks ago, I think he was up 20 points.
00:07:41
Speaker
Wow.
00:07:43
Speaker
Sort of like they're even right now.
00:07:44
Speaker
How much do you think Trump has hurt Pierre Poliev?
00:07:49
Speaker
Do you think... If he loses, he will be the principal reason why he lost.
00:07:53
Speaker
It would have nothing to do with the other candidate.
00:07:55
Speaker
This is not so much Carney winning as much as it is... Is it Pierre Poliev?
00:08:01
Speaker
Yeah, Poliev.
00:08:03
Speaker
This will be as much about him losing as a result of the misfortune of having Donald Trump in his life.
00:08:08
Speaker
Yeah.
00:08:10
Speaker
Similar to what we had here.
00:08:10
Speaker
You like Trump?
00:08:11
Speaker
Not really.
00:08:12
Speaker
Not at all.
00:08:13
Speaker
Actually, one of our most biggest social media clips, which we received, sort of quite a large thing, that sort of outlash on social media, was our sort of hating on Trump with you in our last episode.
00:08:26
Speaker
Was I hating on him too?
00:08:27
Speaker
Yeah, but not in that video.
00:08:29
Speaker
I think that video was just John talking about how Trump handled a pandemic.
00:08:33
Speaker
And that wasn't very well received by him.
00:08:35
Speaker
It's so comical, drawing on the math.
00:08:37
Speaker
He's nuts.
00:08:38
Speaker
I mean, we're going to have the golf of
Scaramucci's Critique of Trump and U.S. Gun Culture
00:08:41
Speaker
America.
00:08:41
Speaker
Maybe he's going to train Greenland or Orangelands with a fixed color of his hair and skin.
00:08:46
Speaker
The guy's nuts.
00:08:46
Speaker
I mean, here's the problem.
00:08:48
Speaker
You're talking about him.
00:08:48
Speaker
I'm talking about him.
00:08:49
Speaker
The whole podcast.
00:08:50
Speaker
I mean, he sucks for everything except for the podcast industry.
00:08:53
Speaker
He's great for the podcast industry because this is cheaper than therapy.
00:08:56
Speaker
You know what I mean?
00:08:58
Speaker
You guys are nice kids and I can sit here and talk to you all day and then I don't have to get charged $500 an hour from my New York Pork Avenue therapist.
00:09:06
Speaker
But the truth of the matter is the guy is completely nuts.
00:09:09
Speaker
We're having like a real conversation.
00:09:11
Speaker
We have to tiptoe around him.
00:09:13
Speaker
There are people in the government that have to pretend he's not nuts when they know he's nuts.
00:09:18
Speaker
But he's nuts and he's dangerous.
00:09:20
Speaker
Did you have any encounters with him in the Oval Office or in the West Wing of the White House in which you thought, this guy is just crazy?
00:09:27
Speaker
Like, was there any defining moments?
00:09:29
Speaker
You know, I mean, when I got fired, I didn't get fired by Trump.
00:09:33
Speaker
I got fired by Kelly.
00:09:35
Speaker
So he's way more subdued than people think.
00:09:38
Speaker
He's not like in a jamboree session, juggling and firing people.
00:09:43
Speaker
He's mostly watching TV.
00:09:46
Speaker
I was there for 11 days.
00:09:47
Speaker
He watched TV every day.
00:09:49
Speaker
He's watching the different news channels, and he has them all on record so he can see the A Block in all the shows.
00:09:56
Speaker
Really?
00:09:57
Speaker
Yeah.
00:09:58
Speaker
What would you say from your time at the White House?
00:10:01
Speaker
I don't think impress is the right word, but so struck you.
00:10:05
Speaker
What do you think was something that you saw then you were like, wow, in a good or a bad way?
00:10:11
Speaker
No, I mean, the gun stuff was the thing that really was an eye-opener for me.
00:10:15
Speaker
When I was in the White House and you went through the security briefings, and then, you know, I mean, don't quote me on this number, guys, because I don't know the exact number.
00:10:22
Speaker
We could Google it and you could fact check me, but I think it's like 400-plus million guns in the country.
00:10:28
Speaker
Oh, wow.
00:10:28
Speaker
We have more guns than people.
00:10:30
Speaker
And, you know, there's a lot of people like me that don't own a gun.
00:10:32
Speaker
So, I mean, there are people that have four or five guns, you know?
00:10:36
Speaker
And I think that struck me as when I was in the White House, that struck me as a concern from a domestic terrorism, from a national security perspective.
00:10:46
Speaker
I don't like that.
00:10:46
Speaker
I would prefer us to do what Australia did and get the gun thing under control.
00:10:53
Speaker
That was the biggest thing that struck me when I was there in terms of the lay of the land.
00:10:57
Speaker
That's really weird for us as well because in England,
00:11:01
Speaker
no one has guns.
00:11:02
Speaker
Yeah.
00:11:02
Speaker
As in, it's just, I can't even imagine just anyone owning a gun normally.
00:11:06
Speaker
Well, your police officers have them now or they don't have them either?
00:11:08
Speaker
No, only sort of special police officers.
00:11:09
Speaker
Some of them do, but some of them don't.
00:11:11
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, I don't know what the per capita crime rate is, the per capita murder rate is in this country, but I've got to imagine it's way smaller than the United States, right?
00:11:21
Speaker
Yeah.
00:11:22
Speaker
Yeah, I think so.
00:11:23
Speaker
It must be, yeah.
00:11:24
Speaker
And so now, moving on to more economic policy, a lot of our listeners, viewers who are sort of our age are really interested to get into economics.
00:11:35
Speaker
You own Bitcoin?
00:11:36
Speaker
No, I don't.
00:11:38
Speaker
You own any?
00:11:38
Speaker
No.
00:11:39
Speaker
All right, that's good.
00:11:40
Speaker
Sign that I'm early.
00:11:41
Speaker
Go ahead.
00:11:43
Speaker
So talking about Bitcoin, can you explain sort of for the people who aren't as familiar with it, what actually is Bitcoin?
00:11:52
Speaker
Why is it popular?
00:11:52
Speaker
Why
Bitcoin's Role in the Financial Ecosystem
00:11:53
Speaker
do people buy it?
00:11:53
Speaker
So, I mean, I think the broad answer is you're buying into a network.
00:11:58
Speaker
So imagine...
00:12:00
Speaker
I could buy into the Bell system phone network or British Telecom's network.
00:12:08
Speaker
So you're buying into the network, you're using that token as a piece of the operating system of the network.
00:12:14
Speaker
And so I think when you think about it that way, you think about how tightly
00:12:20
Speaker
wound the network is and how hard it is to break the code and the immutability of the network, you now have an exchange where you can change value, right?
00:12:30
Speaker
So I brought props with me.
00:12:32
Speaker
So this is a network.
00:12:33
Speaker
Let me show it to you.
00:12:35
Speaker
This is not the green network.
00:12:36
Speaker
This is Queen Elizabeth's network.
00:12:39
Speaker
Here, look at this.
00:12:39
Speaker
See?
00:12:40
Speaker
See the network?
00:12:42
Speaker
And so we trust this.
00:12:43
Speaker
This is like a tool in my pocket.
00:12:45
Speaker
It's made out of... Your money's made out of plastic.
00:12:47
Speaker
Did you know that?
00:12:48
Speaker
Yeah.
00:12:49
Speaker
Yeah.
00:12:49
Speaker
So I can take this out.
00:12:51
Speaker
I can give it to the maitre d'.
00:12:52
Speaker
They're going to like me, right?
00:12:54
Speaker
Yeah.
00:12:54
Speaker
They're going to like me, right?
00:12:56
Speaker
You guys are actually cheap over here, right?
00:12:58
Speaker
Compared to Americans.
00:12:59
Speaker
I've never seen cheapness like this.
00:13:01
Speaker
Nobody tips anybody here, you know?
00:13:03
Speaker
Between the teeth and the cheapness, you got some stuff to work on, right?
00:13:07
Speaker
But this is a technology.
00:13:12
Speaker
So all Bitcoin is is a technology.
00:13:15
Speaker
It's an immutable system, software, unhackable, where we can transfer value between each other.
00:13:21
Speaker
We really understand it that way as it scales,
00:13:25
Speaker
the network will become more valuable.
00:13:27
Speaker
The same way Amazon became more valuable and it scaled more customers, the same way Facebook became more valuable, the same reason.
00:13:34
Speaker
Do you think that the emergence of sort of cryptocurrencies is a good thing for society?
00:13:39
Speaker
Or do you think it does more damage than good?
00:13:42
Speaker
Oh, I think the meme coin stuff, the stuff that Trump did where you're just buying into worthless things and you're playing them with the rampant speculation, I think it's bad.
00:13:50
Speaker
I think Bitcoin will ultimately be good for the society.
00:13:52
Speaker
It's going to keep the central banking community
00:13:55
Speaker
from running too aggressively with the inflation in our fiat currency.
00:13:58
Speaker
And I think that's helpful.
00:13:59
Speaker
It's like a sort of long-term check on that inflation.
00:14:02
Speaker
I mean, another big idea around Bitcoin is almost perhaps it being used as a currency.
00:14:08
Speaker
Do you think it will become a new world currency?
00:14:10
Speaker
Can you actually buy anything with Bitcoin really?
00:14:12
Speaker
Yeah, again, these are great questions.
00:14:14
Speaker
You guys are very well prepared.
00:14:16
Speaker
I would say that yes, you'll be able to use the lightning artwork.
00:14:19
Speaker
You'll be able to buy things on Bitcoin.
00:14:21
Speaker
I think Bitcoin's gonna be very valuable to people because it's very scarce.
00:14:25
Speaker
So you may use a stable coin, which is rendered in either a British pound or rendered in a US dollar to use for the value stuff.
00:14:32
Speaker
It's not clear to me a lot of people are going to be selling their Bitcoin.
00:14:36
Speaker
We'll see, but I see it more of a store of value than using it in a transaction.
00:14:41
Speaker
Do you have Bitcoin?
00:14:42
Speaker
Do you invest in it?
00:14:43
Speaker
Me, I have a lot of it.
00:14:44
Speaker
Oh, wow, yeah.
00:14:46
Speaker
And so for any potential investors?
00:14:48
Speaker
My fund has it.
00:14:50
Speaker
I've got, you know, without getting into too much detail, I have about 70% of my
00:14:54
Speaker
Equity, less my real estate.
00:14:57
Speaker
I own a house and I own one in Southampton.
00:14:59
Speaker
Other than those two houses, my liquid net worth is 70% tied to Bitcoin.
00:15:05
Speaker
Oh, wow.
00:15:06
Speaker
So you heard it here first.
00:15:07
Speaker
Bitcoin is the future, would you say?
00:15:08
Speaker
I think so.
00:15:09
Speaker
Oh, yeah.
00:15:09
Speaker
Yeah.
00:15:10
Speaker
So talking about other cryptocurrencies, you mentioned meme coins.
00:15:15
Speaker
There's also been an NFT market collapse.
00:15:17
Speaker
Yeah.
00:15:18
Speaker
Why
The Rise and Fall of NFTs
00:15:19
Speaker
do you think that happened?
00:15:19
Speaker
Why do you think NFTs went down, but there are cryptocurrencies like Bitcoin, Ethereum as well, if I'm not wrong, who are still stable?
00:15:29
Speaker
Yeah, good stuff.
00:15:31
Speaker
I mean, I think Ethereum is a great chain.
00:15:34
Speaker
It's got great users.
00:15:37
Speaker
They've changed some of the elements of it.
00:15:38
Speaker
They've reduced some of the gas fees.
00:15:41
Speaker
It's a little clunkier to use than, say, a Solana.
00:15:44
Speaker
But I think it's going to be one of the winners.
00:15:47
Speaker
And about NFTs, why do you think that happened?
00:15:50
Speaker
Why do you think there was such a big popularity hype and now it's all gone?
00:15:54
Speaker
Because we're in the fashion.
00:15:54
Speaker
Remember something, you guys think you're in the investment business.
00:15:56
Speaker
You're trying to analyze it from an investment perspective.
00:15:59
Speaker
We're in the fashion business.
00:16:01
Speaker
Skirts go up, skirts go down.
00:16:04
Speaker
You know, the girl's wearing a, you know, I think the, if I had a dollar for every time a fad happened in investments, I would be a multi-billionaire.
00:16:18
Speaker
We had biotech in 91.
00:16:21
Speaker
We had large cap stocks.
00:16:25
Speaker
We had insurance caps in 96.
00:16:27
Speaker
And now we have the mag seven.
00:16:29
Speaker
Okay.
00:16:30
Speaker
And so we have this sort of like,
00:16:34
Speaker
on again, off again, love affair with different things on Wall Street.
00:16:39
Speaker
And, you know, people are trying to overanalyze it, in my opinion.
00:16:44
Speaker
We're going to be attracted to Bitcoin for three big reasons.
00:16:48
Speaker
Number one,
00:16:49
Speaker
It's a lock safe technology.
00:16:51
Speaker
Number two, the fiat side of the business, I think has been corrupted by the rampant central banking activity.
00:16:59
Speaker
So the prop that I showed you, that 50 pound note, was gonna buy me a lot more money 30 years ago than it does today.
00:17:06
Speaker
They've sort of devalued the money.
00:17:08
Speaker
And then the last and the most important part of this is, it won't be for me, I'll be long gone, but you guys will be in the middle part of your career
00:17:18
Speaker
I'm going to make a prediction.
Cryptocurrency's Future and Technological Transformations
00:17:19
Speaker
I'm going to hope that you can hold those 27-inch weights.
00:17:21
Speaker
I couldn't.
00:17:23
Speaker
It blew out the 36 pretty quickly.
00:17:24
Speaker
You know what I mean?
00:17:26
Speaker
But hopefully you'll be 30 years older.
00:17:29
Speaker
Bitcoin will be at a couple million dollars per coin.
00:17:32
Speaker
And you'll be like, yeah, that old four came into our podcast.
00:17:34
Speaker
I think it was our first live show.
00:17:36
Speaker
You'll be having an award-winning podcast by then.
00:17:39
Speaker
And Bitcoin will be at a million dollars a coin.
00:17:41
Speaker
I bet.
00:17:42
Speaker
I mean, yeah, I think, and that is really interesting though about how NFTs were a fashion.
00:17:46
Speaker
But bitcoins are a currency almost.
00:17:49
Speaker
They're more of a long-term thing.
00:17:50
Speaker
Yeah, Bitcoin is more durable.
00:17:51
Speaker
You know, that thing just came in, it was like a skirt.
00:17:54
Speaker
You know, the hula, you guys don't remember the hula hoop.
00:17:57
Speaker
That was a big deal when I was a kid.
00:17:58
Speaker
You had a hula hoop and you shook it around like you were in a hula.
00:18:02
Speaker
like in Hawaii, and then people said, all right, this is stupid, and then stopped babbing it.
00:18:06
Speaker
It's like what the NFTs were.
00:18:08
Speaker
It's so true, because was it that NFT of a monkey?
00:18:11
Speaker
It was a really popular one, and I remember a friend.
00:18:13
Speaker
The Bored Apes, the Bored Apes.
00:18:14
Speaker
Yeah, I remember a friend saying, oh, yeah, they're really cool.
00:18:16
Speaker
You know, I really want to get one.
00:18:18
Speaker
And then I reminded him about it like a few months ago, and it's like, well, yeah, they're not in fashion anymore.
00:18:23
Speaker
They're not cool anymore.
00:18:24
Speaker
There's still a value for them.
00:18:26
Speaker
It's just not going to be as high of a value.
00:18:28
Speaker
Yeah.
00:18:29
Speaker
Remember, you think you're in the investment business, but I know you're in the fashion business.
00:18:34
Speaker
Follow the fads.
00:18:35
Speaker
Yeah.
00:18:36
Speaker
So talking about crypto, what is the sort of government regulation on crypto nowadays, mostly in the States?
00:18:45
Speaker
Yeah.
00:18:45
Speaker
Is that changing?
00:18:46
Speaker
Are more regulations being put in place?
00:18:48
Speaker
Yeah, I think so.
00:18:49
Speaker
I mean, I think the big...
00:18:52
Speaker
Problem the big debate in the United States.
00:18:54
Speaker
It was regulation by enforcement You would go see the SEC ask them what the rules are they would say we're not gonna tell you the rules Then you go do something and oh you did it wrong.
00:19:02
Speaker
We're gonna sue you No, well you didn't tell me what the rules were I mean even coinbase got some judge like yell at the SEC Yeah, and whether you like Trump or dislike job.
00:19:11
Speaker
I think he's gonna clean that up I think there's really proper and good people that are gonna fairly regulate This part of the industry.
00:19:19
Speaker
Oh, yeah.
00:19:20
Speaker
Do you think it's the future of banking?
00:19:21
Speaker
Yeah.
00:19:22
Speaker
Do you think we're almost replaced traditional banking systems?
00:19:25
Speaker
I think it's going to change banking in the same way British Telecom and I don't know what's here.
00:19:33
Speaker
Is it Vodafone?
00:19:34
Speaker
Yeah.
00:19:34
Speaker
So, you know, we had these things here when I lived in Great Britain 40 years ago as a student.
00:19:39
Speaker
We had these things that were tied to hardwired phones and they were tied to desktops.
00:19:44
Speaker
Maybe some big flip phones like Gordon Gekko had, you know what I mean?
00:19:49
Speaker
And people said, well, when the internet comes and the mobile phones come, it's going to wipe out the phone businesses.
00:19:54
Speaker
But it didn't.
00:19:55
Speaker
The phone businesses are now where you go to pay a monthly fee to have a Wi-Fi connection.
00:20:00
Speaker
You see what I mean?
00:20:02
Speaker
And maybe you'll end up paying a monthly fee where you're going to do all your transactions on Bitcoin or Solana or some stable coin, but you're paying your bank rather than these per transaction things or these minimum accounts that are necessary to hold at a bank.
00:20:16
Speaker
Maybe there'll be no minimum.
00:20:18
Speaker
And because of the flows that are happening and the cheapness of the transaction, you'll pay them a small fee like you pay a Wi-Fi hookup.
00:20:27
Speaker
Oh, yeah.
00:20:27
Speaker
And that is actually a very... I've never heard that idea before, but it does make sense almost.
00:20:31
Speaker
We don't replace it.
00:20:32
Speaker
Well, I think that's the future.
00:20:32
Speaker
It's going to be different than you think.
00:20:34
Speaker
Yeah.
00:20:35
Speaker
A big question.
00:20:36
Speaker
There's two guarantees about the future.
00:20:37
Speaker
The future is coming, whether you like it or not.
00:20:40
Speaker
You're screwed.
00:20:41
Speaker
And then secondarily, it's going to be different.
00:20:44
Speaker
It's just going to be different than what you think it is.
00:20:46
Speaker
I guess you can never really predict it, can you?
00:20:48
Speaker
Because how are you going to predict it?
00:20:49
Speaker
You could end up with a humanoid robot that's AI that's cleaning your house three to five years.
00:20:58
Speaker
Wow.
00:20:59
Speaker
Yeah.
00:21:00
Speaker
Another big one.
00:21:01
Speaker
Do you live like a slob or you look pretty tidy?
00:21:04
Speaker
Yeah, I'd say so.
00:21:05
Speaker
You probably don't need the robot.
00:21:06
Speaker
Do you need the robot?
00:21:07
Speaker
No, I don't think so.
00:21:08
Speaker
He's okay?
00:21:09
Speaker
He's well-dressed?
00:21:09
Speaker
Yeah, yeah.
00:21:10
Speaker
All right, just ask him.
00:21:13
Speaker
I guess I'm the only person here that's going to need the robot.
00:21:15
Speaker
James is right.
00:21:16
Speaker
James obviously looks like he would need the robot.
00:21:18
Speaker
Thank you.
00:21:22
Speaker
I've got to say it would be quite convenient though, even for me.
00:21:25
Speaker
Even for us, yeah.
00:21:26
Speaker
Yeah, pick up the laundry.
00:21:29
Speaker
They're going to have auto robots where you have a diagnostic and you're driving the car and the oil's slightly low.
00:21:37
Speaker
I think you're going to have a chip.
00:21:39
Speaker
Oh, right, yeah.
00:21:39
Speaker
You're going to say, okay, your blood pressure's out of control or your glucose is out of control, go for a 20-minute walk.
00:21:45
Speaker
I think it's all coming.
00:21:46
Speaker
Do you think Mr. Musk is going to be the man bankrolling or that sort of thing?
00:21:50
Speaker
He'll be a big part of it, yeah.
00:21:51
Speaker
Don't count him out.
00:21:53
Speaker
Democrats would be very wise to not feud with him.
00:21:56
Speaker
Try to get him back on side.
00:21:58
Speaker
That would be my message to them.
00:21:59
Speaker
Yeah, what do you think about him as a person?
00:22:02
Speaker
Do you think he really almost is part of America's future?
00:22:05
Speaker
I mean, we don't know what it is, but he...
00:22:07
Speaker
Yeah, well, listen, I mean, you know, look, I mean, Elon is a citizen, you know, he's like, I mean, he can't run for president because he was born in South Africa, but he's going to be a big part of the future.
00:22:16
Speaker
Get him back on side.
00:22:17
Speaker
You guys, fuck, I mean, you allowed to curse on Spock?
00:22:20
Speaker
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:22:21
Speaker
The guy's selling echo-friendly cars to the left.
00:22:25
Speaker
You got everybody up in arms now.
00:22:27
Speaker
Just calm down.
00:22:28
Speaker
Bring Elon back into the fold.
00:22:30
Speaker
You know, you got to give him something to do.
00:22:32
Speaker
Biden shunned him.
00:22:33
Speaker
Harris shunned him.
00:22:34
Speaker
You didn't let him go to the UAW meeting?
00:22:37
Speaker
I mean, come on.
00:22:37
Speaker
Yeah, I do think for me, well, what really impressed me, I don't think, again, maybe struck is a better word, but Elon initially was sort of an eco-friendly person who you would assume is very sort of Democrat
Trump's Political Extremes and Legacy Plans
00:22:52
Speaker
friendly.
00:22:52
Speaker
You would assume that.
00:22:54
Speaker
But recently, I think there's been a big change.
00:22:58
Speaker
He doesn't like the woke stuff about the Democrats, right?
00:23:00
Speaker
Yeah.
00:23:00
Speaker
So he's willing to accept the Trump credit.
00:23:02
Speaker
Remember with Donald Trump, one thing, guys, you don't get...
00:23:06
Speaker
A slice of Donald Trump.
00:23:08
Speaker
You're not like at the carving station for the turkey.
00:23:10
Speaker
It's Easter Sunday.
00:23:12
Speaker
You're walking over to me.
00:23:13
Speaker
I'll take a little slice of deregulation.
00:23:16
Speaker
Can you give me an extra layer of tax extension, the tax cuts?
00:23:20
Speaker
I'll take a little bit of this.
00:23:22
Speaker
No, you get everything.
00:23:23
Speaker
Donald Trump's going to force feed you the meme coin where he did an $800 million rug ball.
00:23:27
Speaker
He's going to force you the rhetoric on the Canadian...
00:23:33
Speaker
livelihood, the sustainability of Canada by calling it the 51st state.
00:23:37
Speaker
He's gonna lambace Greenland and Denmark.
00:23:40
Speaker
He's gonna take, I guess, Panama.
00:23:41
Speaker
I don't, he's absolutely fucking batshit, right?
00:23:44
Speaker
You know that, right?
00:23:46
Speaker
You know how crazy he is, right?
00:23:47
Speaker
Yeah.
00:23:47
Speaker
So, I mean, this is,
00:23:49
Speaker
We're walking around like he's normal and there's like a 4D chess game going on.
00:23:52
Speaker
Meantime he's sitting there, the fat fuck that he is, he's eating the pieces, you know.
00:23:57
Speaker
He's not playing 4D chess.
00:23:59
Speaker
It's just stupid.
00:24:00
Speaker
So is there someone, you know, because obviously he is this crazy bloke who, as he said, likes to watch TV, just sort of watch it all fall into place.
00:24:08
Speaker
Is there anyone who controls it behind the scenes?
00:24:10
Speaker
No, there's no.
00:24:10
Speaker
Melania hates him.
00:24:11
Speaker
Yeah.
00:24:14
Speaker
Probably, you know, probably hates him more than my wife and it's really fucking close because my wife hates him, but not as much as Melania.
00:24:21
Speaker
I do think he listens to her.
00:24:23
Speaker
Probably the only person.
00:24:24
Speaker
And not on every topic, just on certain things.
00:24:27
Speaker
Do you think, now this is more maybe an esoteric question, but what do you think Trump is going to do?
00:24:34
Speaker
Do you think he's going to try to pass on the presidency to one of his sons?
00:24:37
Speaker
Do you think like... Do you think that?
00:24:39
Speaker
I think it's a possibility.
00:24:41
Speaker
Do you think that?
00:24:42
Speaker
I think it's a chance as well, just because everyone's... The idea we have of him is this crazy guy who wants to almost control America forever.
00:24:49
Speaker
Like Barron?
00:24:50
Speaker
Yeah, Barron or... Or Don G. What do you think?
00:24:54
Speaker
Yeah, is it... Maybe.
00:24:56
Speaker
Yeah.
00:24:57
Speaker
It's so hard to tell.
00:24:58
Speaker
I'm worried about it.
00:24:59
Speaker
I'm not going to lie.
00:25:00
Speaker
Yeah, he's exactly nuts.
00:25:03
Speaker
First Trump administration, I would say no.
00:25:06
Speaker
Because you had smart people that were impeding what he was trying to do.
00:25:09
Speaker
The second Trump, they're like, let go crazy.
00:25:12
Speaker
Yeah.
00:25:12
Speaker
I think some of them want it.
00:25:14
Speaker
Who in the first Trump administration, I mean, other than yourself, would you say was a good voice for reason for him?
00:25:20
Speaker
Didn't make him go to him.
00:25:21
Speaker
Mattis.
00:25:22
Speaker
Okay.
00:25:23
Speaker
John Kelly, the White House Chief of Staff.
00:25:25
Speaker
Oh, yeah.
00:25:26
Speaker
You know, those are people.
00:25:27
Speaker
Reince Priebus.
00:25:29
Speaker
Yeah.
00:25:30
Speaker
They weren't like this.
00:25:31
Speaker
These are just sycophants surrounding them.
00:25:33
Speaker
They sit there and they like bark like a dog for the guy, you know?
00:25:38
Speaker
It's embarrassing actually.
00:25:39
Speaker
I think one more question that I think a lot of people want an answer to is that you've had obviously huge success with hedge funds as a first banker at Goldman and now at your own.
Scaramucci's Advice on Persistence and Success
00:25:52
Speaker
What do you think...
00:25:54
Speaker
one important factor, both as a banker and as a manager, that differentiates.
00:25:58
Speaker
There's only one factor.
00:26:00
Speaker
And Simon Cowell, who's a Brit, right?
00:26:03
Speaker
Oh, yes.
00:26:04
Speaker
The Pope guy, yes.
00:26:06
Speaker
The X factor.
00:26:07
Speaker
The X factors.
00:26:08
Speaker
You see that board?
00:26:09
Speaker
Look at the wall over there.
00:26:10
Speaker
Does that wall look like it's edible?
00:26:12
Speaker
No.
00:26:13
Speaker
No.
00:26:13
Speaker
Okay, but if I had to eat that wall, I would eat it.
00:26:16
Speaker
Break it down, I would eat it.
00:26:17
Speaker
You gotta chew yourself right through that wall.
00:26:20
Speaker
You have to think like that.
00:26:21
Speaker
You can't stop for anybody.
00:26:23
Speaker
I got fired from the White House, who cares?
00:26:26
Speaker
I missed the Bitcoin move, who cares?
00:26:29
Speaker
I'm in Bitcoin now, that's great.
00:26:31
Speaker
There's a bear market, who cares?
00:26:33
Speaker
You understand what I'm saying?
00:26:34
Speaker
You gotta get locked into the target, go for the target.
00:26:38
Speaker
And don't let anybody's thoughts interrupt your process of going for the target.
00:26:44
Speaker
It's almost that we sort of call it, and I guess in like UK popular culture now, it's that dog attitude.
00:26:48
Speaker
You're fixed on it and you want it.
00:26:50
Speaker
Nothing gets in your way.
00:26:51
Speaker
Dog it, dog it.
00:26:52
Speaker
Yeah.
00:26:53
Speaker
I think what really impressed me from... Who's the smarter of the two of you?
00:26:57
Speaker
I don't know.
00:26:58
Speaker
I couldn't tell.
00:26:58
Speaker
We do both very different subjects.
00:27:00
Speaker
I'm going to throw that out there because...
00:27:02
Speaker
He's trying to spin you up on your own podcast.
00:27:05
Speaker
What subject do you do?
00:27:06
Speaker
So I do History, RS and French for a level, so humanity sort of guy.
00:27:10
Speaker
He speaks French, right?
00:27:12
Speaker
Yeah.
00:27:12
Speaker
Yeah, a bit.
00:27:13
Speaker
Yeah.
00:27:13
Speaker
All right.
00:27:14
Speaker
I do biology, chemistry and maths.
00:27:15
Speaker
Are you going to be an MP?
00:27:17
Speaker
No, I can't because I'm not British.
00:27:20
Speaker
Okay.
00:27:20
Speaker
Are you going to be an MP?
00:27:22
Speaker
Maybe in later life, but journalism.
00:27:25
Speaker
Who wants to be an MP?
00:27:26
Speaker
I don't think he wants it now, but I think, I mean, it's a career.
00:27:32
Speaker
Well, we'll see.
00:27:33
Speaker
I mean, first of all, thank God, because we need really good people to go into it.
00:27:37
Speaker
But, you know, you should be careful with it, though, because it is a shitty life.
00:27:43
Speaker
If he does and he's PM, I'm happy to be.
00:27:45
Speaker
Yeah.
00:27:45
Speaker
What are you going to be?
00:27:47
Speaker
Press director or something.
00:27:51
Speaker
Well, may you last longer than 11 days.
00:27:53
Speaker
You look like you're going to.
00:27:55
Speaker
Well.
00:27:56
Speaker
It's sort of what impressed me a lot from our last interview was you talking about your family background and how you've had to work a lot for yourself.
00:28:02
Speaker
Yeah.
00:28:03
Speaker
If you had one message, if you had one message for people our age who are in that position and who are sort of hungry, what would your message be for them?
00:28:15
Speaker
You can't under any circumstances give up and you can't let anybody invade your mind space.
00:28:23
Speaker
Right?
00:28:23
Speaker
Because you're a hard charge and you're both hard charge and you're good looking guys.
00:28:26
Speaker
You have people shooting at you.
00:28:29
Speaker
Can't get in your mind.
00:28:30
Speaker
Yeah, yeah, you're good.
00:28:30
Speaker
Goodbye.
00:28:32
Speaker
I'm leaving you alone.
00:28:35
Speaker
I think that's a really good end of the episode, frankly.
00:28:38
Speaker
Don't give up.
00:28:40
Speaker
Under any circumstances.
00:28:42
Speaker
So, hopefully you've enjoyed the episode.
00:28:44
Speaker
If you have, please listen to our last episode of Anthony as well, back in August.
00:28:50
Speaker
And the last message, don't give up.
00:28:52
Speaker
number one thing can't let anybody see you sweat yeah all right guys great to be on with you thank you thank you very much and everyone please check out and yeah follow the podcast thank you thank you guys