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The Case for Long-Form Content
729 Plays26 days ago
It’s never been easier to access content than it is in our modern day - with a click of a button or a swipe of our finger, we can engage in any topic, however we’d like, whenever we’d like. But should we? In a world saturated with short form content like Tik Toks and Reels, there's still an undeniable appeal of long form content that calls to us. But what exactly is long form content, and why does it matter that we still insist on seeking it out today? Let's discuss!
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Transcript
Introduction and Banter
00:00:00
Speaker
All right. Okay. Ready. Tip of the week. Okay. Oh, right. right Oh, my gosh. I'm sorry.
00:00:11
Speaker
I'm sorry. i am here mentally. I swear. It's all good.
00:00:19
Speaker
Anytime now. Lindsay. It's like, let's go. Let's do it. All right. Okay.
Episode Introduction and Theme
00:00:39
Speaker
Welcome back to the Modern Lady Podcast. You're listening to episode 156. Hi, I'm Michelle. And I'm Lindsay. And today we are talking about short-form content versus long-form content and why slowing down what we are reading, listening to, and watching is good for our brains.
00:00:56
Speaker
Ancient Greek philosopher Plutarch has been attributed as once saying, quote, the mind is not a vessel to be filled, but a fire to be kindled, end quote.
00:01:07
Speaker
And what are we filling our minds with these days? There's certainly no shortage of information, entertainment, or opinions competing for our attention on any given day. But are we being intentional about what we let in?
00:01:20
Speaker
And does it really matter? Let's discuss. But first, the best way that you can support The Modern Lady is by subscribing to our podcast on whatever app you use to listen to podcasts and by sharing us with your friends.
00:01:34
Speaker
This week's shout out goes to Natalie Mueller, who joined so many of you on Instagram to celebrate our coming back announcement in August and posted, quote, best news in a while. I just couldn't find a podcast that I love as much as the modern lady.
00:01:49
Speaker
You've been very missed. End quote. Well, thank you so much, Natalie, for leaving us that sweet comment. You really made our day with your excitement and we are so happy to be back chatting with you again.
Color Theory Tips by Lindsay
00:02:02
Speaker
and if you would like to leave us a comment or message us about today's episode, the best way to get in touch with us is on Instagram at The Modern Lady Podcast. But be sure to stay tuned to the end of the episode for other ways to connect because we would love to hear from you.
00:02:22
Speaker
But before we get into today's chat, Lindsay has our Modern Lady Tip of the Week. What do blondes, laundry, and buttercream frosting have in common?
00:02:32
Speaker
Well, they all require a little colour boost to make them sparkle. Have you ever wondered why most laundry detergent is blue? Or why purple shampoo is needed to tone down the brassiness of blonde hair?
00:02:45
Speaker
Or how adding a few drops of purple food colouring to yellowish buttercream frosting can make it whiter? This colour theory always blows my mind. I first learned about it from a source that has taught me so much about history and why we do the things that we do.
00:03:01
Speaker
And this show is what I colloquially refer to as the Farm Vids. You guys know the Farm series like Victorian Farm and Edwardian Farm. In almost every series, Ruth Goodman ends up washing clothes or dyeing fabric or preparing sheep's wool to be made into clothing.
00:03:18
Speaker
And it often involves P. Now, surprisingly, that is not today's tip of the week. She also adds some blue colouring. So what is colour theory?
00:03:29
Speaker
It is the study of how colours work together, either complementary or in contrast. There are three primary colors, blue, red, and yellow, and these three colors are combined to make a full spectrum of other colors.
00:03:43
Speaker
Opposite colors on the color wheel can either enhance and balance out each other or cancel out one another. So back to blue and purple. They are siblings on the color wheel, and both are opposite on the color wheel to yellow.
00:03:55
Speaker
Blue cancels out yellow, So to the eye, the yellowish tone of something is reduced, and the brain interprets the item as brighter and whiter. Purple toner works the same way if blonde hair is a little too brassy, too orange, or golden.
00:04:12
Speaker
By adding purple to blonde hair, it leaves the hair looking cooler and more platinum. Back to laundry. Adding blue dye to the washing up liquid is called bluing. Often a synthetic pigment called ultramarine is used, and that is made by grinding lapis lazuli down into a powder. Now you might have heard about lapis lazuli if you have overheard your kids playing Minecraft.
00:04:34
Speaker
Next time they mention it, you can let them know that ground lapis lazuli is roughly 10 times more expensive in its ground up form than gold. The other dark blue pigment that is used is called Prussian blue.
00:04:47
Speaker
And this one requires a wee bit of chemistry as it is produced by oxidation of ferrous ferocyanate salts. And we will just leave the chemistry lesson there. So the next time you pour your blue laundry soap into your washing machine, take a moment to reflect on this little bit of science sprinkled into your everyday tasks.
00:05:06
Speaker
Hmm. Okay. This is so interesting because I just saw something on Instagram about the buttercream hack. Oh, yes. Yes. That's what I first saw that made me then go, right, this is the same thing as bluing, which took me back to Ruth Goodman. Everything always goes back to Ruth Goodman.
00:05:23
Speaker
Everything comes back to Ruth Goodman. Yes. my gosh. It's true. But okay, so this is my follow-up question then. Mm-hmm. Is this why toothpaste is often blue?
00:05:36
Speaker
I bet it is. And I was thinking about Dawn dish soap too. So many, now there's other colors, but right. Or like even um the, did the, the rinse agent and the little tabs that you put into your dishwasher. Everything I think we want to be whiter involves blue.
Intentional Content Consumption
00:05:56
Speaker
It's never been easier to access content than it is in our modern day. With a click of a button or a swipe of our finger, we can engage in any topic however we like, whenever we like.
00:06:08
Speaker
But should we? And with such carefree abandon? We think that perhaps what we feed our minds should invite a more intentional approach. Right, Lindsay? 100%. Right. Whatever we are feeding ourselves, whether it's intellectually or into our brains and into our bodies, it all matters.
00:06:27
Speaker
It all matters. And like you said, it's like we have this buffet. It's like we are at the Mandarin Chinese Buffet. it's a local place here in Ontario. Right. Mandarin shout out. It is like the magical wonders of Mandarin. Absolutely.
00:06:40
Speaker
all the time available ah at our fingertips of content, of entertainment, of jokes, of how-to videos, of like, oh my goodness, it's all, it's a buffet of wonder and it's so much to take in.
00:06:55
Speaker
And it's not going away anytime soon. And its draw is pulling us in and sucking us in, I think, more every day more and more by the minute. And so it's like time to put on the brakes a little bit and to be like, hey, what exactly are we consuming here? And is it good for us? And so we are going to really talk about like what short form content is versus long form. And this is something I think we've alluded to in past episodes, but we've always wanted to do a full episode on this, right?
00:07:24
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. Well, we're always talking about, and I feel like it's usually when we're we're going on a break for the summer and we're always like, oh, Long form content. We want to go back to long form content.
00:07:37
Speaker
And so this is actually the first time we're like just sitting down and being like, well, wait a minute, what exactly is, what do we mean by that? You know, and then what is, what is its opposite? There's, like you were saying, so many different kinds of content out there.
00:07:53
Speaker
um But they all fill a different job or a different role and they affect us differently. So I think this is such an interesting, it was such an interesting thing to look into and to talk about now. What is, what are we going for when we go on break and we say we want long form content?
00:08:10
Speaker
What is that? Yeah, and I think it's especially important as moms and watching the habits, the content-consuming habits of the next generation.
00:08:20
Speaker
um Maybe a lot of you out there really are strict with screen time with your kids and they're not consuming it.
Short-form vs Long-form Content
00:08:26
Speaker
My kids are a lot older, right? So I've been really able to watch what each one gravitates towards.
00:08:32
Speaker
And I have kids who are um Gen right? And i who are very much Gen Z. And I have kids that are Gen Alpha, right? And there is a huge, believe it or not, content consuming divide between chen Gen Z and Gen Alpha that we'll get into a little bit more um as we talk about this.
00:08:49
Speaker
So while I'm old school, I'm the last year of Gen X, but I super identify as Gen X because I'm married to, you know, a Gen Xer and all these things. um and We just didn't have access to any of this. So I still naturally will gravitate towards long form, but that's how my brain was formed.
00:09:05
Speaker
And, but I am like, ah shocked and appalled I will just say right off the off the get-go watching the um content cons consummation is that the word consuming consumption I struggle with that too I think it's consumption this is not about consummation but
00:09:24
Speaker
Okay. um So yeah, I'm a little concerned about what my kids are consuming um in terms of content. So let's first talk about short form.
00:09:36
Speaker
Let's just lay it all on the table. Let's define what it is. And so yeah, we're going to have a talk about short form versus long form. Yeah. And one of the first questions I had actually was like, what's what's the defining line?
00:09:49
Speaker
When does something go from short form to being long form? Because I think when I hear long form, I just naturally think long. Like it has to be vaguely Yeah.
00:10:01
Speaker
yeah And so I looked it up and there is actually kind of a rough guideline. um It seems like typically when we're talking about ah long form, it's for written pieces, anything longer than about a thousand words, um maybe about twelve hundred ish or more.
00:10:19
Speaker
For video content, I was looking into it. It's anything over like the 10-15 minute mark that you're watching is considered long form video content.
00:10:30
Speaker
And then audio content is hovering more around 20-30 minutes. um And that would consider like a long form, ah like a podcast episode that's two or three hours long, for example, would definitely be long form.
00:10:44
Speaker
But also, yeah, the 30 minutes. It's something that sustains your attention for that long. so And that was good for me to know because I thought a thousand words was really long.
00:10:55
Speaker
Yeah. But I did a quick Google search for classics around a thousand words. Yeah. Yeah. yeah the Like the Chronicles of Narnia series is like about 35,000 to 65,000 words so per book.
00:11:11
Speaker
yeah And I was like, oh, a thousand. OK, a thousand words. Really just. And I'm looking at my notes today and I'm at 4,305 words. I'm like super long content. yeah. Yeah. So were now you're like you're doing long form. We're doing long form. This is great. Yeah.
00:11:28
Speaker
Actually, that that sparked something in my brain because i so I saved a post from Instagram last night about um what happens to your body when you go out for a walk. What happens in the first, um I think it was like three minutes, five minutes, 10 minutes, 20 minutes, 30 minutes, 40 minutes, you know, in an hour.
00:11:44
Speaker
And different things happen to our bodies as each, you know, as you're progressing through each stage. And I'm like, that's so interesting. It's the same thing would happen maybe with our brains, right? With like 30 second content to one minute to five minutes to 10 minutes.
00:11:58
Speaker
And it's just so interesting how our body, it's it's like, again, our bodies and our minds and our everything works together as a cohesive whole. Like what? I know. Every time that comes up, it's surprising again, but it's it's it is true and it keeps coming up, right?
00:12:15
Speaker
so that is interesting. that and So then what does happen? That begs the question, what does happen to our brain when we consume either short or long form content?
00:12:27
Speaker
Well, let's start with short form then, right? Let's get it out of the way. let's Let's have a really frank and honest discussion about the impact of short form content on your brain. So one of the things to think about right off the bat with short form content is that it gives you these quick hits of dopamine.
00:12:43
Speaker
And this is because the content is, you can't predict what you're going to see next. I'm talking about when your phone is in your hand and you have either like YouTube shorts or Instagram reels or stories on or TikTok, right? This is what we're talking about right now. When when you are being bombarded with story after story after story, you're You don't know which one you're going to see next.
00:13:04
Speaker
Is it going to be shocking? Right. Is it going to be funny? Is it going to make you cry? If you were to watch my face right as I'm observing these things, you'll like literally see me laughing, then tearing up like all in quick progression.
00:13:17
Speaker
And so the thing I read about this is that it acts like a slot machine, like an emotional slot machine. Like when it's like you're pulling it every time, but you don't know what's going to turn up on the strip on the screen. And this is incredibly addictive.
00:13:31
Speaker
And I came across this term orienting reflex. And i think you looked a little bit more into this, right, Michelle? Yeah, yeah. And it's interesting how these different reflexes in our brain, like I didn't know the brain um was just designed to react so to so many different stimuli, right?
00:13:50
Speaker
ah We think sometimes we're more in control of our mental responses than maybe we actually are. So you have like... the gambling slot machine that like intermittent reinforcement kind of a reflex yeah that that gives and then you have like related to that this orienting reflex and it can be described this one's described um as like a novelty reflex if we want to think about it it's our body's knee-jerk reaction when something new or surprising catches our attention
00:14:22
Speaker
And this has been around in neuroscience for a long time, since about the 1850s. It was first starting to like officially be coined as a term. A Russian scientist coined it. And then Pavlov, he of the dog and ringing the bell. Yeah, of the dog and the bell, yeah.
00:14:40
Speaker
Yeah, he actually called it the, what is it? Reflex. So it's been around for a long time. And it goes back even further than that. It's like an ancestral thing for us. um Like hunter-gatherer, our beginning ancestors.
00:14:53
Speaker
So they were to hear a noise... like the rustling of leaves in a bush, for example, their brains would trigger this orienting reflex, which would be like, a what's that reaction? It'd have that split-second pause or freeze, and then there'd be a slow ah approach normally to investigate further.
00:15:12
Speaker
um And it's been crucial. This reflex is crucial for how we keep ourselves safe from sudden potential threats. So to bring that, the orienting reflex up to our conversation today, we can start to see how ah constant consuming of short novel content, one after another, especially the flashier it gets, say with social media, we were just talking about,
00:15:37
Speaker
the danger is that it can hijack this reflex. So if you're constantly triggering the reflex, it actually can become smaller, it can become weaker. And like, think about how we get used to hearing noises, right? And over time, you just don't even hear it anymore sometimes.
00:15:55
Speaker
So that is one of the the things that short form content could be doing to us in the context of our natural orienting reflex. So we should probably be asking ourselves if the consumption of short, quick videos like that, that constant stream, um are we dulling an important natural body bodily response?
00:16:17
Speaker
ah And that is that's a really interesting thought. Yeah. And then if we, so let's say we build on this, let's think again about how our brains and our bodies were designed, right? And so if we have that orienting reflex, and then what your brain is doing is every time it's taking in sense, your senses are taking in and perceiving what's happening in the environment around it, it becomes encoded into your memory.
00:16:39
Speaker
Rustling of leaves means potential food in that, a food source, right? There's an animal there. Or is it danger? Is there somebody who could hurt you or an animal that could hurt you? When we are perceiving and sensing our environment around us, it goes into our memory and it becomes very important. And it's a crucial memory building skill to have it for survival, right? To be like, hey, what does that sound mean? Don't by that bush.
00:17:04
Speaker
Right. Or what do the storm clouds mean as they're coming in, as our eyes are perceiving that and all of these things. And so what happens is when we're taking in short form content like that, um it it turns in, if we're looking at memory, it changes our memory and it becomes shallow encoding when it's coming in that rapidly and that quickly.
Cognitive Effects of Short-form Content
00:17:24
Speaker
Now, this is absolutely fascinating. we're going to take a bit of a deep dive here into memory encoding. Ooh. Okay. So but basically it's like taking in what you're sensing around you, what your senses are picking up on, and then it's like saving it to your hard drive, to your computer, right? You're inputting some information and then it's being stored within the hard drive.
00:17:42
Speaker
So here's the issue. So we're just going to keep saying for simplicity's sake, TikTok style content. Okay, but that can mean Instagram or whatever else, but like TikTok style content, which is rapid fire content.
00:17:54
Speaker
It's too fast for our brains to process. According to an article on neuroscienceof.com, quote, TikTok provides users with a state of perpetual interference.
00:18:07
Speaker
Each video disrupts the memory for the last. The article goes on to drive home the point, this point, quote, this isn't mere run-of-the-mill proactive interference. This is grade A plutonium of proactive interference.
00:18:21
Speaker
Research in memory psychology finds that the interference effect is greatest when the subsequent events unfold in the same context, end quote. So what does that mean? End Another example of this would be studying for hours and hours from a textbook, right? You've got a big test and you're studying from a textbook.
00:18:38
Speaker
And then to unwind for fun, you read a novel. You pick up some pleasure reading at the end of the day. Those are the same context. Your brain is taking in the written word. And that will interfere with the deep memory encoding of that information you needed to know for the test.
00:18:54
Speaker
Okay? Okay. It's so interesting, right? So what that means again English. and entertainment and taking in like rapid fire content is that you are not going to remember 99% of those reels or stories that you saw.
00:19:10
Speaker
You're only going to remember the last one. And that honestly, okay, put on your tinfoil hat, Michelle. This got me thinking about something. It really did. i was thinking about this. I'm like,
00:19:22
Speaker
This has 1984 Orwell's book all over for me because I'm like, what if mentor memory interference is the whole point? What if these apps are created with ill will in an attempt to confuse and disorder the content and information that we are rapidly taking in?
00:19:41
Speaker
So when we then take in little bits of important news, right, or facts about things that are happening in the world that's kind of like hidden in between all that other content we're just rapidly taking in, we're not going to remember those important details.
00:19:53
Speaker
It's just all a muddled mess in our brain. So then I was like, who started the war? Eurasia, Oceania, East Asia. That's all from Orwell, those countries, right? Because it's constantly in that book going, no, they started it. No, they started it.
00:20:05
Speaker
I'm like, what if this is the whole point? And then just one more important thing from this neuroscience website. Quote,
00:20:16
Speaker
i actually think it's more than that um so you can easily come away from an hour spent on tiktok feeling like it's only been ten minutes and with only a memory of the very last video that you've seen stuck in your brain and then you're caught in the state that they say of perpetual proactive interference your memory is only as good as the last piece of content you've seen So again, I'm wondering, is this the whole point?
00:20:41
Speaker
It is really hard and this right causing division and fighting, but none of us are actually deeply encoding important facts, important data, because it's like this tidal wave of rapid fire content hitting us.
00:20:54
Speaker
And so, yeah, we aren't able to store within our brains that those survival skill instincts that our ancestors had about what was important as we were picking up on on those things from our environment.
00:21:07
Speaker
Wow. Okay, hang on. I'm just like um deleting all my apps. Just taking those right away. no but it's true though, because has this ever happened to you where you saw reel that you really liked and then but maybe a couple, like a minute or two later, I want to show Yeah.
00:21:32
Speaker
and i'm like oh my gosh where is it like yeah i don't even remember like going past all these other videos my memory is already so so shot right in terms of consuming that content Yes. Or does this happen to you? And this this is we're totally I'm going off topic a little bit here, but it's so interesting again about memory encoding is I'll be scrolling. This happens to happen more on Facebook than other ones. but Let's say I'm scrolling a feed and all of a sudden whatever I've seen triggered within me have and umm memory of something I needed to do that day.
00:22:02
Speaker
and my real life yeah and then i keep scrolling and then i forget it and i don't remember that thing until i scroll back and i have to see that post Right. and every and then it yeah triggers that again and i'm like this is shocking to me that i have to use and related newsfeed to trigger a memory of a real to do in my real life Yeah, that is so true. And then like to bring it into that larger context, like we're not able. So but like I was looking a little bit into the levels of processing yeah theory, right? Like um the there's like the shallow, the phonetic and the semantic. The semantic is like the deep processing. um And you need deeper engagement, like contextual understanding, ah right a bit more of ah an investment to be able to process on that deepest level.
00:22:54
Speaker
And then what we're talking about would be the shallow level of processing yeah um input. um ah But to your point, we can we can't even engage a lot of the time anymore in the important things because we think we already have.
00:23:11
Speaker
But it was at such a a shallow level and there there was no opportunity to even process deeply, right, about these big important things in the world, like how in 1984, who started the war, right? Yeah, yeah. um So much of that is eerily relatable to our situation now. And so all of this is really fascinating to me because, i mean, i i scroll,
00:23:36
Speaker
on Instagram and on social media. And i just never considered. i never considered the deeper implications. And they are deep. Let's talk a little bit more about the brain because this is so important.
00:23:51
Speaker
So what does the science say about short form content? And does it does is it showing up as structural changes in our brain with brain scans? And It isn't conclusive yet, right? This is still a really a new part of science, but they are finding in brain scans that short form social media consumption does show a reduced volume in the amygdala and an increased volume in the anterior middle brain.
00:24:16
Speaker
cingulate cortex. I love when we become neuroscientists. Because I know exactly what you're talking Right? yeah I'm like, did I even pronounce those right? So what does this mean? Well, it means basically that the gray matter in the bilateral amygdala is reduced when we consume too much short-form content. And this gray matter is key for emotional processing.
00:24:36
Speaker
And the increased volume in the other area of the brain impacts decision-making and cognitive control. So this leads to faster and more impulsive decision-making, a reduced capacity to grasp, and ah reduced capacity to feel loss.
00:24:53
Speaker
I think that's really important, too. And one more, a reduced ability to self-reflect. And then it actually leads to other cognitive de um deficits as well. It's obvious that it it if impacts our ability to hold our attention, right, our um attention deficit, right?
00:25:09
Speaker
The ability to store new information through learning, which we were talking about with ah like shallower encoding and memories and an increase of depression and and of depression and anxiety.
Generational Differences in Consumption
00:25:19
Speaker
All of this says, and I think that especially like this reduced capacity to grasp and feel loss and empathy towards other people.
00:25:28
Speaker
Again, if you just right now play through what a typical scrolling through of like TikTok or Instagram stories is, it's like, devastating news, funny video, cute cat video, somebody's baby, right?
00:25:42
Speaker
Devastating news. It's like this thing. and And our emotions are all over the place like a roller coaster. But we are simply, our our brain scans are showing we are simply not able to um process properly all of that information that we're taking in. Hmm.
00:25:58
Speaker
That's really striking when you think about some of the things that we might struggle with. Mm-hmm. Right? Like, i mean you're just listing things off. But again, i never really made that connection between habits that I have that have to do with consuming a lot of short-form content with maybe those days where I just, you you know, you just have those days you're anxious about, like, you're anticipating something or you just feel on edge. I'll call it on edge, right? Yeah.
00:26:27
Speaker
um And we know that vaguely there's probably a connection between how much you're consuming and those feelings, but maybe to understand it on a biological level like this is really helpful to put those things into perspective when we're having those those days or those thoughts.
00:26:47
Speaker
And because it ultimately, ultimately doesn't help. We're not saying that there can't be short form relaxation, right? There there can be a little escapism. Okay, a couple of minutes. But that well, even in that case, I've got a little bit more bad news.
00:27:00
Speaker
An article in the Herald Sun shared research that found that just three minutes of social media use can lead to reduced prefrontal cortex activity, harming concentration more than mobile gaming or TV viewing. Yeah.
00:27:15
Speaker
Right. it's ah It's so hard to balance out the the pleasure. i think let's not deny that it is pleasurable. and To like crash out on the couch or I like flop onto my bed, onto my tummy and like just scroll for what you think is 10 minutes, but it's an hour. um And I think that that was such an important point that we learned earlier is that our brain doesn't actually like it totally loses track of time.
00:27:39
Speaker
um So it is pleasurable. um But yeah, that we have to face the facts on the damage that this short term entertainment and content is doing. And this is something that we're just like kind of calling TikTok brain.
00:27:52
Speaker
um Right. It's it's just how it's reforming our brain. But it also made me think about brain rot and that term. Right. Everyone's talking about brain rot. So I looked up where that term came from. And when I tell you my jaw hit the ground, it hit the ground.
00:28:11
Speaker
This is not a new term. It was actually coined by Henry David Thoreau in 1854. ah Yes, 1854, 171 years ago Oh, my goodness. Right? I'm like, they had brain rot? I'm reading all the novels from that period and everyone seems so smart.
00:28:29
Speaker
Nope. He coined it to describe a decline in intellectual standards due to an over-reliance on simple ideas. So they were already like, ugh, brain rot.
00:28:39
Speaker
Yeah. eighteen fifty four 1854 and then it resurfaced in 2007 on twitter and it that it was used then to describe like dating game um tv shows and video games and then again in 2020 it became an internet meme but it really took off just last year in 2024 as a way to describe generation alpha's digital habits and this is what's going to this is a gut punch for me um And they it's often associated with the way generation alpha and I wish I knew the exact years of that, but I know my two younger kids, right, who are 11 and 13. the 13 year olds right on the border, but my 11 year old for sure.
00:29:16
Speaker
It's often associated with how their vocabulary and the way that they communicate with their peers and even with us consists mostly of Internet references. Oh, skibbity toilet.
00:29:29
Speaker
and All this week, it's been the six, seven, Ohio. I just heard about that too. Yeah. a Most of their conversations between them and their friends and the things that they're trying to say to us is based on internet references.
00:29:43
Speaker
That is what we mean by brain raw now. Wow. That is. Okay. That is so fascinating. Who knew That brain rot had such a long and storied history.
00:29:55
Speaker
know. Thoreau. I know. What? Wow. Okay. Thank you for that. Well, he's like, wasn't he out in the woods? Yes. Walden, right? Yeah. I think he's one of the, don't know if they're called the naturalists, but yeah, they're the ones who are already like, get me out of here.
00:30:11
Speaker
It was 171 years ago. Oh, my goodness. he He must never time travel to now. Never. ah Never. um But that is so interesting. I didn't look too much into brain rot. But what one thing I did come across is that it's so prevalent.
00:30:29
Speaker
It was the Oxford word of the year last year. Did you know that? Oh, no, I did not. Yeah. Well, and then I was like, isn't that two words? Oh, yeah. But anyways, it was the word of the year. yeah And what you were saying about Gen Z and Gen Alpha, yeah um there was a little sub post under that Oxford Word of the Year article I was reading. And the Oxford Languages president, Casper, I don't know, Grathball, maybe I'll say.
00:30:57
Speaker
yep He said, and this is a quote from him. He said, I find it fascinating that the term brain rot has been adopted by Gen Z and Gen Alpha, those communities largely responsible for the use and creation of the digital content the term refers to. it demonstrates a somewhat cheeky self-awareness in the younger generations about the harmful impact of the social media that they've inherited.
00:31:22
Speaker
yeah end quote So it is kind of interesting that they're so immersed in it, but at the same time, they kind of know that though. Yep. and but maybe that's part of the balance ah that like as we continue to go on in the generations with tech and the integration of tech and short form content and all these things maybe the awareness is the first step like hey there is like a really overpowering pull to this and that it's slowly creeping into our real
00:31:56
Speaker
world two um Which path are we going to follow? We're going to follow the path of brain rot or are we going to kind of go the way of this self-awareness and figure out ah is is there a path forward?
00:32:08
Speaker
Okay, so you've got me thinking a bit more about this. I think it's so interesting that I can watch my kids who my older two and my younger two are only there's like a three and a half year gap. between them. But it seems to be this massive generational divide because my older kids um in their baby and toddler development years, there was still no social media. So there was still, and I wasn't a mom with a phone in her hand because there wasn't um smartphones. So just in between my older two kids and my younger two kids, that Gen Z to Gen Alpha divide is huge. And what I'm hearing from my Gen Z kids is they are horrified. And I'm like, who are you to judge? But they are horrified at this brain rot that they're seeing in this younger generation.
00:32:49
Speaker
And a lot of them are the ones, and we'll talk about this later, are really responsible for this drive towards a 1990 summer, which has been trending this year. And 1990s Christmas, they're all talking about.
00:33:02
Speaker
And they are already saying that they do not want their children on smartphones and devices more than we are. Like, we are still the first parenting generation to try to navigate all of this, right? It really did hit us like a tsunami where we did not know what to do.
00:33:16
Speaker
But and I look at my daughter, Charlotte, who's 18, and her and her boyfriend, Krish, talk all the time about how they're going to raise their kids. Yeah. And it is, um they are not putting devices into their kids' hands. And so I just think that's so interesting is this divide even between these two generations that have been sandwiched together so closely right now and how they're viewing all of this.
00:33:36
Speaker
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. It's definitely going to be interesting to see how it all plays out. And then just to know for us too, right? Like, and I'm i'm a millennial, so I'm just kind of like right in the middle of everything too. and we've This is such a new thing.
00:33:51
Speaker
All of us are approaching it as the first wave. Yeah. I love hearing about how all the different generations are encountering and processing yeah um social media use within their own generations. Yeah.
00:34:05
Speaker
Without any precedence. Yeah. To go off of. yeah And one of the experts on this, and I'm sure many of our listeners are familiar with the work of Jonathan Haidt. Haidt. have not read his books, but i know he is the probably, you know, the the most respected speaker on social media and its dangers and all this stuff.
00:34:22
Speaker
He's a New York's and NYU a social psychologist. And I know that he has opened many a parent's eye to some of the dangers. Yeah. And he said, TikTok is the worst for their, referring to young consumers, intellectual development, as it literally reduces their ability to focus on anything while stuffing them with little bits of stuff that was selected by an algorithm for emotional arousal.
00:34:47
Speaker
And that term, emotional arousal, that hit me like a gut punch. And I did. I really reflected. I thought about each of my four kids. And the way that they use their devices and what they opt for for content and entertainment.
00:35:02
Speaker
And so my oldest, she fell right into the TikTok void. She loves it. She's always scrolling TikTok. and And this is just me as a mom being honest about what they're doing. This isn't this is a judgment-free, like, obviously I wish they weren't doing these things, but I can't speak from a place knowing that I also scroll these
Benefits for Creators and Algorithms
00:35:18
Speaker
things. So anyways, she loves TikTok. Mm-hmm.
00:35:20
Speaker
But my second born kid, he um he does some scrolling, but he also he gravitates towards long form content on YouTube, right? Science, geography, good channels. Now, the one that this really ah hit me with was this emotional arousal was my third kid.
00:35:34
Speaker
He plays a game called Geometry Dash. Have your kids played Geometry Dash? Oh, yes. I think they learned about it from... You're probably my kid. I'm so sorry for introducing the drug of jail. Oh, that's okay.
00:35:46
Speaker
No, it's a fun game. It's a fun game. It is. why that term struck me is that this i've never seen my kids because you have to play it very quickly with's tapping your finger right And ah you see them like sensing their whole bodies and getting so stressed about it. And it's to the point where there are YouTubers who will play that this game and the levels on this game wearing a heart monitor so that they can see whose heart rate hits the highest playing Geometry And I'm like, wow, talk about emotional and then physical arousal with this game.
00:36:18
Speaker
Now that my kid who loves this game also does the other side of it, which is designing levels, which is great. He can spend hours slowly and play and... designing and creating and choosing backgrounds and music, all that part's great. That's very different than the emotional and physical arousal of the of the game.
00:36:33
Speaker
And then my youngest kid, she likes her YouTube Reels, which I hate. I think they're brain rot. But then she'll use her iPad um to look for new crafts and she'll sit for six hours, you know, creating a craft with her hands. with her hands and But it did make me step back and be like, okay, how am I seeing this emotional arousal in each of my kids with their devices?
00:36:53
Speaker
Mm-hmm. Yeah, it's a lot to unpack. So this is like, when it seems like from a parenting perspective, it's all a lot for us to have going on in our minds at any given time. I think just to pause here, to acknowledge that because it is so new, it is a lot.
00:37:12
Speaker
Yeah. Right. And so, yeah, we're all, it is just such a new field to navigate. And then I guess we can talk about like, are there any benefits, right? Are there any benefits to short form content? yeah yeah sir Is there?
00:37:26
Speaker
And the one thing I did find that I thought was interesting. Yeah. So if you are the creator, okay, I guess this is the defining line here. Are there benefits to the person who views it or there benefits to people creating it?
00:37:37
Speaker
And so the benefits I found are were for the creators. and i And I like these benefits. It forces them to be more I came across the word punchy, um like concise, and they have to improvise um very quickly sometimes to make really good content that's in that's short form.
00:37:53
Speaker
And I'm like, okay, that's cool. um But yeah, are there any benefits for those of us who are consuming it? Did you come across any, Michelle? Well, I do think ah like there are times and places for it, for sure.
00:38:06
Speaker
Right. Like it does get information out there faster. Sometimes yeah but we just want to know what the traffic is like this morning. Yeah. Right. yeah Or what the weather is going to be today. We don't need like a 5,000 word essay on what a cold front and a warm front is.
00:38:22
Speaker
Is doing every morning. um and so that is a useful use of short form content. Just, you know, tell me the weather, tell me the traffic. um And even too, I will find that sometimes the short form content can lead me to long form.
Cognitive Endurance and Long-form Content
00:38:40
Speaker
And I appreciate that. like Oh, yeah. A quick summary.
00:38:44
Speaker
um sometimes really helpful in finding recommendations for books or movies or you know or sometimes i'll just see clips of tv shows or movies that people are sharing and that prompts me to go and actually watch the thing or read that's excellent yes good right so it could be perhaps short-form content has a place in terms of um quick information sharing but content would be important so Maybe not as an entertainment value, maybe as more of an information sharing tool.
00:39:16
Speaker
That's a really good place for short form content. Yeah. Do you know what? Okay, if I did like it for an entertainment reason, the one thing I think that shines in short-form content is humor. Yes.
00:39:31
Speaker
I'm not a TikTok person. my My oldest finally convinced me to get it because she's like, I just want you to see the difference in tone between what's shared on Instagram. And she's like, Instagram often gets the best of TikTok. Like, they they just people recopy from TikTok on Instagram.
00:39:46
Speaker
And she's like, all the want things that I like on Instagram, she's like, come from TikTok. So she's like, I want you to scroll TikTok and see what it's like on there. And the first thing I noticed, and again, I'm barely on it, so I don't really have an algorithm that's like, you know, presenting itself to me yet.
00:39:59
Speaker
But it is funnier. It's funnier. And it is a different generation of people. And so I do find like if I wanted to turn... to my device um to, you know, break me out of the mood I am in. do find that there can be some really good short form funny content out there.
00:40:17
Speaker
Okay, that's actually a really good point. I was on the fence. I know I talked to you about this, about um talking about that escapism aspect. Yeah, because I do it, too.
00:40:29
Speaker
Right. um Like we're we're just exploring here. We're exploring our our own habits, too, in the process. Absolutely. But there is something to be said that it breaks and a mental loop.
00:40:42
Speaker
Yeah. Right. You know, like if if I really am um fixated or ruminating on something and I just can't shake myself out of it, sometimes I'll notice I go to my phone. That's probably habit.
00:40:55
Speaker
Yeah. um But it can sometimes break the mental loop. The humorous ones, that's bang on. It's almost always something funny. Yeah. And humor and comedy, it does work with a punchline.
00:41:09
Speaker
So like it's hard to follow a joke if it's too long. but Yeah, yeah. So you're absolutely right. Short form comedy and as a means, probably with much more parameters than what I currently have um for myself. But with some parameters, perhaps that can be a useful tool as well to stop rumination.
00:41:30
Speaker
And I think you and I, obviously, we always talk about our episodes before we start recording. And you had brought up a really good um point while we were having um a phone chat earlier. And it was about, like, being intentional with your algorithm.
00:41:41
Speaker
Right? So that's something we do. It seems like we don't have control over it, but we actually do. do. Yeah. If you are intentional. But, yeah. And and so explain explain to us how you have, like, changed the algorithm.
00:41:55
Speaker
Yes. Well, so sometimes I will just decide I intentionally want to change it. I'm just, I want to see certain things. And so I just, I play with it in the sense that I'll go, for example, on the reels for Instagram.
00:42:11
Speaker
And when I do come across a video that I like, or it has something to do with the content I want to see more of, I'll let that whole video play out. um Perhaps I'll engage with that one. I'll like like it or something like that.
00:42:25
Speaker
And then i'll I'll scroll really fast past everything else, even if I am kind of interested in it, until I find another piece of content that has to do with what I'm actually wanting to see and build an algorithm towards.
00:42:39
Speaker
And I'll let that one play out fully. And honestly, it's so fast nowadays. I do find that within ah like a few minutes, it it gets shorter and shorter between those videos and the content that I'm trying skew my algorithm towards.
00:42:55
Speaker
of um And so that can be a useful tool. I don't do it all the time, but it could be something like if I'm just in a mood or, you know, I'm interested right now in a certain kind of indoor decor style.
00:43:11
Speaker
And I just want to see more house tours based on that. That's what I'll try to go find. So I don't know if that's a real thing. That's just something I've tried out for myself and it seems to work. So it that could have a bit of an impact if like ah how we were saying it right at the beginning with the intermittent reward reflex, you don't know what you're going to get next.
00:43:31
Speaker
yeah Maybe there's a way that we can start to you know, be master of the thing as opposed to being the slave of it. Yes. And I think that where we got so sidelined or where we kind of hit a fork in the road in terms of of this is that when social media was first created, especially we'll use Instagram as an example, you followed, you chose to follow certain accounts, whether it was your friends or travel accounts or home decor, you were creating your own feed, right?
00:44:01
Speaker
yeah so this so And then they introduce... um the explore page or you like they they changed the format. So then you were getting thrown stuff as it was trying its best to keep you on that screen. Right. And that's the way they keep you there is that unpredictable slot machine, emotional arousal thing.
00:44:20
Speaker
um effect of of that. And so, yeah, taking back control of that And that makes me mad. That makes me mad as a consumer. That's like, but I purposely followed and tried to create from the beginning my own feed to see those things I want to see.
00:44:32
Speaker
But you're going to keep trying to tempt me with these other things to keep me ah paying attention. And it works. Of course it works. So it's like trying to fight back against that. um by And in any way that they try to adjust your feed by really zeroing in and being intentional about what your eyes are lingering on, what your finger is staying on, it picks up on those things and then what you're liking and commenting on. So I love that. You're going to hack the system. You're going to fight it back. You're going to try to take control of your algorithm. Yeah.
00:45:01
Speaker
We shouldn't have said it out loud. Now they know, but but we're going to do it anyways. I got to say, too, and this came out of nowhere, but just like a couple of days ago, Charlotte said to me, have you ever gone back and looked at your very first likes on Instagram? I'm like, what? and And so she showed me that you can go into your activity and then you go into oldest, oldest to newest.
00:45:25
Speaker
And I will say that it was a very... Yeah. seeing what instagram used to look like it was like a time machine and when it took me back to thirteen in my case and i got to see first of all all of my friends who were still sharing photos of their lives which no one does anymore partially from privacy, but I also think, let's be honest, partially because we we don't want to be judged.
00:45:50
Speaker
um It's become so judgmental that nobody wants to share a picture of their home or their children or themselves um because of the snarky comments. um So back in the day, you just shared freely and openly a picture of your family and um everything had that same filter on, that retro filter and that little frame. Yeah. And it had friends just saying nice comments. And I was like, oh, the wholesome, old-fashioned side of Instagram.
00:46:16
Speaker
I had totally forgotten what that used to look like. And a part of me is like, if we could only create a social media app that's like the original form of these things. Yeah. Oh, my gosh. Just as you were as you were saying that, I just tried on my phone. That is exactly what it looks like on my feed, too. From the oldest likes. Oh.
00:46:39
Speaker
Yep. Another thing to think about. Absolutely. So now we, I think all of us now are on edge and feeling terrible about our short form content consumption. know. Or end consummation. Yeah.
00:46:54
Speaker
but So let us now sing the praises of long form content, which I believe you and i both love. And I would wager a guess that most of our listeners also love because they tune into us um all the time. And we produce long form content. And they also so many of you guys really love the things that we share. Right. And the what we're loving this week um blue portion of the podcast.
00:47:14
Speaker
Yeah. And all those things are often long form content. So I think ah we don't have to like sell anybody on this, but i just I want to use this section for us to encourage you to stretch those boundaries even more to really turn towards long form content.
00:47:32
Speaker
in new and challenging ways that maybe you just haven't been used to. And this this involves exercise of your brain. is ah It is a muscle and you're going to have to stretch it and feel a little uncomfortable as you don't skip through songs so quickly on Spotify, um my friends. So let's talk about long form content.
00:47:52
Speaker
Okay. Yeah. So we're trying to make the case, right? Yes. So we're making the case for long form content or more of it. um And exactly what you're describing, ah that's a term called cognitive endurance, right? It's exactly what it sounds like.
00:48:09
Speaker
And it's exactly what you were just saying. It's stamina building for your brain. Yes. Right. um The mental ability to sustain focus on any given task. Yeah. And as you can probably imagine, in light of what we were just talking about, consuming those large amounts of short-form content can really hinder our ability to have long-lasting ability to concentrate on something.
00:48:32
Speaker
And so the good news is that like physical endurance, ah cognitive endurance is trainable. um The bad news is that like with physical endurance, it's going to require exercise.
00:48:43
Speaker
Yeah. but mom would you Go on. and know ah we joke we joke it's obviously mostly good news but i because i don't think we always consider that the process the process requires training or what that means right we're so used to that immediate gratification and result and so If you are like me, intrigued by this idea of like, we can actually train our brains um to go further and longer distances as if you were going for a marathon, um then we'll just also have to be honest about where we're starting at and be patient and consistent with
TikTok's Adaptation to Long-form Storytelling
00:49:22
Speaker
it.
00:49:22
Speaker
So what's nice though about training for cognitive endurance is that if you think about it, although it's work, it's actually going to be quite pleasurable work. Yeah. Because you're still, you know, consuming some sort of entertainment probably um in form of content.
00:49:38
Speaker
um But I'll just say one more thing about this. I have actually physically felt what that feels like, like training cognitive endurance. And I first noticed it really at the beginning of the school year last year.
00:49:53
Speaker
On my oldest, she's starting the next level of program in our homeschool curriculum. We do homeschooling with classical conversations. yeah And so for those who know, she was starting in the Challenge A program, which starts the older kids' studies program.
00:50:08
Speaker
And one of the main goals of the whole program is to teach our students how how to think. And so it's trying to already stretch them. yeah And going through this brand new curriculum, brand new to us curriculum for the first time last year, i remember she and I were talking over some of her assignments the first week. And I was like,
00:50:26
Speaker
My brain literally hurts, but literally hurts. There was like a tightness inside my head. Very hard to describe. um It's a wild feeling. Again, maybe it's just me, but I'm starting to feel it again the beginning of this school year because this time it's me who's trying to learn a new program because I'm teaching her class.
00:50:47
Speaker
Yeah. At the next level. So i'm I'm having to not just learn it, but now like learn it to be able to instruct and facilitate conversation about it. So I feel that tightness in my head again.
00:50:58
Speaker
Yeah. but um But I had a thought, and this was before we started ah researching this for today's episode, actually, Lindsay. um I was thinking, though, i am going kind of glad to feel the mental strain because i was like, you know, this is my capacity growing. yeah It's kind of like a, it hurts so good but yeah sort of thinking when your muscles burn after you're pushing just a bit further on your usual run or your usual lifting session, right? So Yeah, cognitive endurance. It's a thing. It's a really good thing. And I love that we can train it.
00:51:35
Speaker
And so long form is kind of that vehicle that we're going to use to help us with that. Oh, my gosh. i love it so much. And even just getting back into recording the podcast and writing notes and stuff again, too, right?
00:51:46
Speaker
i'm I'm not homeschooling, so I don't have to exercise my brain in that same way. And what the program your kids use is outstanding. It really does. It is very different than what kids learn in public school.
00:51:58
Speaker
um And it is an outstanding program. And I'm so glad to hear that they are learning to use their brains and train their brains in that way. I think it is a critically important skill, frankly. And so, and then, yeah, being able to participate in that as the mom slash teacher is just awesome, too.
00:52:12
Speaker
But, yeah, even I've been watching, you know, you know that my husband got a new job. And it is a very complicated and stressful job. And the amount of learning, right, that he's having to do and studying and coming home and just watching that mental fatigue, that intellectual fatigue.
00:52:28
Speaker
ah It is real. And you do crash and burn and your brain turns to mush and all that stuff. Then you turn to looking at TikToks. Yes. Because you need to like it's like the junk food. um Absolutely.
00:52:40
Speaker
ah So do it makes sense. And um just well I want to touch on TikTok one more time right now because I actually think there's something very interesting happening that I uncovered. And um I've seen Charlotte watch this content. And then I um i may have been listening to Kourtney Kardashian's podcast.
00:52:57
Speaker
I will admit that. It's a great podcast. I love it. And she was talking about being sucked into, i think it was like a 53 minute story on TikTok shared in little minute blocks, right? Oh, okay. yeah So this is this new, they are finding out on TikTok that Gen z loves long form storytelling, but they it needs to be fed to them via those apps because they don't have access to it. They're not picking up the books and that kind of thing So they're loving these long form stories people are sharing.
00:53:27
Speaker
It's just being broken down into these one minute blocks, which I think is really interesting. So in this one article I was reading, they were talking about how TikTok is going to have to find a way to keep its users. If they're realizing that they are that they these young people are tuning in for these long stories is maybe be changing their formatting a bit. So I thought that was really interesting. Like the bridge here between short form and long form being found on TikTok.
00:53:50
Speaker
Yes. I love that. ah That reminds me of, ironically, there's so much irony in this episode because I'm going to refer to a meme that I saw ah social media again too.
00:54:02
Speaker
Yes. and And it was the the exactly the same idea, right? Someone's like, um hey, do you have time to watch this really good 10-hour movie? And the person's like, um no, who has 10 hours?
00:54:15
Speaker
But they'll watch it if it's in like 10 one-hour episodes. Yes. sequences it just yeah that i don't know what the correlation but that reminded me of the meme yeah and so okay let's stay on this like junk food like consuming things thing um i ok again this is so ironic because chat gpt said this michelle i am ah My new friend, ChatGPT, said that consuming long-form content is like nutrient-rich food for your brain.
00:54:48
Speaker
It cultivates focus, patience, empathy, and intellectual depth and counterbalances the fragmented rapid-fire consumption patterns that short-form media encourages.
00:54:59
Speaker
I was like, wow, ChatGPT, that's very well written. Yeah, that's such a good point because we do also see a lot right now about eating physical food. yeah for your brain health, right? and And that's a really good thing. I'm glad we're starting to be more intentional about that.
00:55:17
Speaker
But it can even go for the content. Like it is almost like a healthy diet. ah You have to almost put your brain on some sort of a healthy lifestyle diet.
00:55:28
Speaker
Yeah. Nutrient-dense, right? yeah We use ya food. and And I think that the same thing can be said. or maybe intellectually dense. And it's going to be like, I don't love eating that salad as much as I would love chicken nuggets. um But it's good for me, and I'm going to get used to it the more I do it, like what you were saying with the cognitive endurance. And so what we're talking about here specifically is like more challenging works in terms of like complicated novels, longer novels, um longer pieces of music, or full albums, or concept albums, which was a big thing in like the 70s and 80s.
00:56:04
Speaker
And these, when you consume long form content like this, it requires the person consuming the art to hold multiple details in their memory as they build and and an understanding of what they're consuming.
00:56:19
Speaker
This is that deeper memory encoding that Your brain has to work in a totally different way to store that information. What I'm talking about here is if if but it reminds me when I started reading Russian literature. Right. You read some of it, too. Did you have you ended up reading War and Peace yet?
00:56:35
Speaker
No, I have not broached War and Peace. OK. I've done others. Yeah. all Let me simplify it I always joke with people with this. It's literally about war and then peace and then war and then peace and then war and then peace.
00:56:47
Speaker
Yeah. But the thing is, it's with any of these novels and you and you've read some of the Russian greats, right? It isn't just about the plot. Right. Some a lot of the easily consumable. And we are not saying this in a judgmental way.
00:57:02
Speaker
But a lot of the novels that are out there right now, they are fully plot focused. That's the whole point. You read it. and You get a plot. It's it's entertaining. It's done. Yeah. Any of the great novels, classic literature, especially the Russians, they are about layered timelines, complex characters, and their relationships to each other, and complex ideas that often draw on historical knowledge that people knew at that time.
00:57:28
Speaker
Different languages, especially the Russians, they're all over the place. The the aristocratic Russians speak French in those novels, right? And then like I don't think they spoke Russian at all at that time in history. They actually spoke French.
00:57:39
Speaker
Mm-hmm. And then like there's and geographical details, especially if it's the past. You're like, oh, they're in the Ottoman Empire right now. Like you have to carry all of that information and in your brain to store it and understand it.
00:57:52
Speaker
And my favorite way of looking at it, too, is long form entertainment is a slow burn. It is a slower buildup that requires the ability to delay gratification.
Structure and Depth of Long-form Content
00:58:02
Speaker
So the benefit of that, though, is when the emotional cli climax finally comes The payoff is deeply rewarding, and it stays with you for a long time.
00:58:12
Speaker
You might be able to churn through those beach reads very quickly, and it's enjoyable. And you're like, oh, that was a fun book, and then you're on to the next one. But when I read, and you'll attest to this too, like Kristen Loverenstotter or any of these books, or Les Mis, oh my goodness, I think about those books every couple of weeks.
00:58:29
Speaker
Again, I can feel it, and I can remember what I felt like when I was reading it. And that's the same with great pieces of music or albums or great films, right? So it takes a lot longer to get there. It's a slow burn.
00:58:41
Speaker
um But you think about it. Okay, I will i will go back to the food thing. Jason and I are foodies. And when we have gone to very good restaurants, very, very, very good restaurants, I can still recall what those meals tasted like the entire experience.
00:58:56
Speaker
um I've been, this is going to sound crazy, but unless you've been there, you can almost be moved to tears with the first bites of the most well-prepared meals ever. And so and I cooked one of those meals during the pandemic. If anybody wants to check it out, it's still in my highlights on Instagram. It's one of my favorite things I ever did. and And that meal took eight hours to cook. And I was literally moved to tears when I finally tasted it because of all the effort put into it. So that emotional climax, the payoff is huge when you put in the work.
00:59:26
Speaker
That's such a good point. When you were talking about the the plot of like classic literature, that was something I was going to say too. i I feel like the whole plot of those maybe more classic books is the people. Yeah.
00:59:43
Speaker
is is the character right and as opposed to kind of like a story sequence yeah of what the climax and everything so it's a different way of storytelling um and you know when we were talking about how longer form doesn't necessarily mean longer yeahp You can get definitely more of those facts in. And so in that sense, I do think it's more challenging.
01:00:05
Speaker
um But even like, oh well, the the shorter stories, which are still over that thousand word mark, so they're considered long form. yeah It's just incredible how much it stretches you.
01:00:17
Speaker
but Yeah, yeah. ah Just because ah conceptually they they have you engaging with it. That's what you're talking about with the the semantic. I think it was level of processing, that deepest level.
01:00:30
Speaker
Yeah. And I know we'll probably talk more about this in a minute, but I actually found something that this ties into with a concept I came across about long dopamine. Yeah.
01:00:41
Speaker
um The slower release of dopamine that you get when you do consume those longer forms of content. And they were saying like short form content releases more, they'll call it anticipatory dopamine.
01:00:54
Speaker
That's what we were talking about. It keeps you excited um for what's coming next. But long dopamine is interesting because it embraces more of actually what dopamine is.
01:01:06
Speaker
and Like we always associate dopamine with the pleasure hormone. Yeah. Right. But dopamine actually does more than that. It does more than just make us feel good. And so um I was just looking very briefly on verywellhealth.com and it listed some of the other functions of dopamine.
01:01:22
Speaker
It's very strongly linked to mood regulation. Yeah. And also to focus and motivation. So dopamine makes us feel good when we've accomplished something. Oh. yeah More so when we're entertained, right? So that totally tracks. When you're engaged in a long-form content, like say reading a book, your brain is releasing dopamine in a more sustainable, gradual way that doesn't just peak right at the beginning and then drain you, yeah um leaving you nothing to focus with.
01:01:51
Speaker
And so when you do finish that book or you reach that aha moment you've been working towards, it's the mental reward that comes is more from staying focused and discovering the depth and having accomplished and done something pleasurable um that you actually had to put effort towards yourself.
01:02:12
Speaker
Yes. And I love that the word accomplishment really jumped out at me because taking on these big epic books is an accomplishment. It is a ah marathon um to the end. and There is like this up dopamine release of being like, I did it. I so i persevered. I stuck with this book, Moby Dick.
01:02:31
Speaker
We won't even go back to our long-term listeners. Talk about a marathon. yeah And one of the things I think what you were alluding to, I came across a word that describes what this all means and sums it up beautifully. It's the word architecture.
01:02:46
Speaker
There's an architecture of long-form content. Yeah. And the architecture is built up with these recurring motifs and themes and moods and symbolism and thematic layering. And it heightens, therefore, our aesthetic appreciation.
01:03:00
Speaker
and And that is also what grows. The more we consume of these things, the more our... um knowledge, our intellectual knowledge of all of these pieces grows. And then it all starts to link together. and you're like, wait, I remember that being referenced in this, or I know what Russian classical music sounds like. So I can build a theme in my head as I'm reading these books. And I understand, like it just, it becomes this, this quilt, right? Or this tapestry of information, this architecture of long form content.
01:03:29
Speaker
That builds on itself and and you can reference and pull from it all the time. and And I'm just going to keep going about this because then that, as and it's you and I have talked about, the more we consume that content, it gives us a bigger picture view of life and humanity and And like history in a context and the human struggle and the human experience, like it is just, it starts to weave itself all together in this beautiful way that can never be possible in short form content and little glimpses. It just isn't.
01:04:02
Speaker
You know what? This is so timely, this conversation. i think what you're talking about with the integration of things, I think we're made for integration. Yes. um And you're so right. It lends itself to long form so much more than short form. I was just on a call before we started recording for our curriculum because now I'm in this next new new level. I have ah more meetings to join. Yeah.
01:04:32
Speaker
And they were talking about why we layer a lot of the curriculum, especially early on for the younger kids. We just kind of cycle back over and over again to a lot of foundational pegs of knowledge.
01:04:44
Speaker
And they're talking about why brainstorming how that can be of benefit. And one of the ideas I had was because the more you cycle back with more information, you build on things.
01:04:55
Speaker
the more you can see the connection or the integration between things. And for us especially, it gives us a window to the fact that our whole lives are not just individualistic little tunnels.
01:05:08
Speaker
We are part of a greater whole and that it's an orchestration um by God, right? yeah Like there is an actual intentionality behind all these different things and that they're connected.
01:05:21
Speaker
And so I find that so interesting that even in terms of the content that we think of that really nourishes us, it it leads us in that direction to form a little bit more...
01:05:33
Speaker
um integrative style thinking. And that gives us pleasure in and of itself to find those connections and to recognize them when we come across them. Oh my goodness, you've just awakened me to this idea that about the hunger for that, the the how how badly we want that. When again, I watch my my older teens, how, and this is what they're looking for on TikTok. They'll mom, don't you get it? This guy joked about that three weeks ago.
01:06:00
Speaker
To them, it's this complex network of memes and subtle references and music clips. Like they've created this whole network of that within their brains of like the TikTok world.
01:06:12
Speaker
And for me, I'm like, oh my goodness, this is terrible. And and and frankly, trashy, I'll say in some ways, it's like tra junk food. Let's, let's say that, but they want that just proves how hungry they are for like linking things and understanding and all of that. And it's given to so serve to them in this, like, I guess, McDonald's combo ah of food.
01:06:34
Speaker
And, um, and I just want to continue to encourage Encourage my family to be like, okay, I see that you're hungering for that and that it is fun to make those connections, to pick up on pop culture references and all of that, which you can as
Role of Homemakers in Content Choices
01:06:47
Speaker
well. Like, my goodness, how much did we learn from The Simpsons?
01:06:50
Speaker
There were so many pop culture references. Yes. Within The Simpsons that you don't get unless you've read classical literature or watched great films, right? Yep. I've always thought that the writers of those kinds of shows, like The Simpsons and stuff, like they have to be some of the most cultured people.
01:07:07
Speaker
Because to joke about all those things, they had to first consume them. Absolutely. Yeah. And it's like so it's like it's it's this understanding. And so I don't fully understand what is happening in their TikTok world with all that because they roll their eyes i'm like, oh, mom, you don't get it. You don't get why they're saying this. And I'm like, well, you don't understand Dostoevsky. Yeah.
01:07:31
Speaker
But it's like, it's part of, and this is, I think, leading perfectly into what I want to say next. I firmly believe it's part of our job as homemakers, as literally the creators of a home, whether, again, you work outside the home or not, we are creators within our home to make those things accessible and palatable You know, I've always joked about my 10-minute rule with movies. And I'm like, just watch it for 10 minutes. And everybody ends up loving it if you can just give something 10 minutes. And so I want to talk about the importance of our role and in consuming those things ourselves, being the first ones to take it in.
01:08:03
Speaker
And then like... like feeding our little baby chicks like we consume it first and then they're all hungry for it and then I won't be too graphic but let's feed our children this good stuff that we've had to take in ourselves first beautiful sidestep there yeah no problem just the picture the birds and their little open beaks I'll leave it there so let's talk about films because I feel like this is a maybe the first entry point or, you know, into consuming some better quality things for ourselves and for our families. And we've done episodes on entertainment and how strongly we feel about what's being played and and watched in our homes.
01:08:43
Speaker
um So I want to talk about foreign films. I have been on a foreign film kick now for a couple of years, and there are so many benefits to watching films from around the world, not from our from our own country.
01:08:57
Speaker
And in fact, that's pretty much what I prefer to watch now. um and So again, who i dare this is going to be the year where we talk a little bit with things from chat, JPT. It's going to happen.
01:09:07
Speaker
Yeah. A lot's happened in a year. A lot has happened in a year. But it said about foreign films, um following a complex foreign film with subtitles requires continuous reading, scene decoding, and emotional engagement.
01:09:21
Speaker
An excellent workout for sustained attention. And I have also found that our brains have to wrap around different cultural concepts, traditions, sayings and wordplay that might be lost in translation, relationship dynamics that are different in families and in marriages from what we see here in the West.
01:09:39
Speaker
It is unfamiliar, and this keeps our brain alert. I also find myself Googling different things like the actors and locations and customs. It's really, really hard to not Google while you're watching it. Right. You want to stay focused.
01:09:52
Speaker
um But I really want to understand what's going on. And then obviously you're reading it. and And I remember talking about this briefly on Instagram. People like yeah like i have the subtitles on for all the shows we watch and so do i but at least if i turn away and it's an english-speaking show i still can hear what's going on i've realized like i'll go in to start like the pasta cooking in the kitchen and i'll have a and i'm like wait i actually don't know this language i do that all the time too you ah feeling that you actually go back and sit right and like turn your brain on to it and so yeah it's there if people um
01:10:26
Speaker
There's a ton available on YouTube, or if you want to spend a little money, on the Criterion Collection um is excellent, where you can buy films individually as DVDs um that have been reformatted and remastered, or you can subscribe to their channel.
01:10:39
Speaker
um But yeah, I started to dip my foot into French cinema, and now I'm expanding it into other countries, um you know, some great Japanese films and all this stuff. So foreign films.
01:10:51
Speaker
Mm hmm. It is interesting. And I think it probably also besides being like when you talk about film in general, like versus maybe a blockbuster movie. Yeah, it is two different genres. Right.
01:11:06
Speaker
And so already you're kind of going a more, I'll say, creative route, maybe artistic route when you're watching film. And then. when you're engaging with it, like you were saying, in another language, in another culture setting, there's so many other things going on Maybe that's what's prompting you to engage deeper with it than if it was still in your mother tongue, right? Yes. Which is still probably good too, um but it adds like extra tasks if you're watching a foreign film. So
01:11:39
Speaker
That's a ah great tool. I haven't watched a lot of foreign films. um The few that I have, I've really loved. But even foreign TV shows. Oh, right.
01:11:51
Speaker
Yes. Yes. i've I've really loved that. And I almost kind of miss, like sometimes when I watch a show in English, yeah it it's starting to feel almost strange to me now.
01:12:02
Speaker
but We're the same way. yes yeah Yeah. Watching a lot of foreign TV. Yes. Yeah. And so then when it's in English and I still have the subtitles on, I'm just like, I'm missing something here.
01:12:14
Speaker
Like there's a Like you're like, this is so easy to understand.
01:12:20
Speaker
so Speaking my language and it's written in my language. Easy. Right. I can actually turn away from this and still know what's going on. Yeah. But you're right. i was I forgot. Actually, silly me. TV shows didn't even enter my brain. And the big the big breakthrough of this was all the K-dramas, right? When did those really pick get up popular? Like five or six years ago now? I feel like that was the big breakthrough for people.
01:12:43
Speaker
Yeah, i feel like it's I feel like it was kind of two waves. I came in like when it was around the pandemic time, like maybe 2020, 2021. But then there was ah another wave before that. People were starting to get into it maybe about 2016.
01:13:01
Speaker
But it it goes that far back. So I do feel like that was like maybe one of the first waves. Maybe other cultures that we largely started consuming um as a North American or Western population.
01:13:14
Speaker
Yeah. And then like for Jason and I, and and we've, I think, got you guys into all the Scandi Noir dramas, right? Like, so, like, we love any but they are They're definitely a mood.
01:13:25
Speaker
like yeah Definitely. They pull you into a mood. But the Scandi Noir and then um so what what I'm talking about are are like murder shows that are set in any of the Scandinavian countries.
01:13:37
Speaker
We've watched a lot of shows from Germany. And Britain picked up on that trend, I don't know, maybe 10, 15 years ago and started doing like British versions of Scandi Noirs. And they're excellent, too. And America has tried. It's dabbled I would say most recently with the Eric Bana show on Netflix, Untamed, is um close to that vibe.
01:13:55
Speaker
We don't love that one as much. But again, we've been trained like to enjoy the European versions of the shows. Yeah, they there yeah they're missing the language. Yeah, they are.
01:14:06
Speaker
There is something about the language. And so, yeah, I forgot about that. So it's so much of it, you're right, is accessible to us on on Netflix. There is a ton on Netflix. Once you, again, you train your algorithm, those shows start popping up and you're like, let's just try it.
01:14:19
Speaker
Let's just try it. Yeah, exactly. but yeah And that's what we'll probably talk a little bit about too, is just that, you know, don't overcomplicate it. Yeah. If something piques your interest, go for it.
01:14:31
Speaker
Yeah. Try it out. I was my, um a couple of my closest girlfriends, um they don't watch any of those shows. And so we'll be, you know, going out for a walk or out for a drink and they're talking about what they've watched. And it's very different than what I would watch.
01:14:42
Speaker
And then I'm like, have you guys ever heard of the 1987 German movie, blah, blah, blah. And they're just like, um Nope. And I'm like, oh, okay. But then i I invited them over for a movie night and i'm like, okay, I can promise you it will be from, i said, it's going to be in English, but it might not be from this decade and it might not be in color, but I will at least pick an English one. And it's just, I think it's us getting excited, like consuming the stuff ourselves and and getting excited about it and introducing our our spouses and our friends and our family
01:15:14
Speaker
um And our kids into these things because it just somebody has to introduce it to you. Right. and And be excited about it and be like, no, trust me. Watch this. And yeah, we we do overcomplicate it It doesn't have to be that way.
01:15:25
Speaker
Just just try it. The 10 minute rule. Yep. The 10 minute rule always comes back to that. Okay, so we already talked about classic literature a little bit. And so, again, chat GPT. I'm so embarrassed saying that.
01:15:40
Speaker
The third member of the podcast? Yes. Maybe. It is so, but I guess I'm just going to have to get over it. But, yeah, it said, switching from Pulp Fiction to classic literature can feel a bit like going from fast food to a slow, multi-course gourmet meal.
01:15:58
Speaker
Both can be enjoyable. Okay. But they're paced, seasoned, and structured very differently. The trick is to retrain your literary palette without making it feel like homework.
01:16:08
Speaker
I think that's such an important point. is So many of the classic books we were forced to read, and let's face it, we barely skimmed through them in high school and university,
01:16:19
Speaker
And it's really hard to be like, no, those are pleasurable. that it's not You don't have to write an essay on it You don't have to discuss it with your teacher. They're not going to be tested. They're pleasurable. And so there's a bunch of good recommendations for what you could call like bridge books to help you get into, to fill that gap, to take you from...
01:16:38
Speaker
um you know, the popular books that everybody's reading right now to some of the greater works of classic literature. and so some of the examples are The Picture of Dorian Gray, Fahrenheit 451, and Rebecca.
01:16:48
Speaker
um i also think Mark Twain and Jules Verne, I'll just say like a lot of like the books that were written for young adults um in the past are ah like The Secret Garden are excellent entree points into classic literature.
01:17:02
Speaker
Mm-hmm. And just another thing about reading the classics, it requires undistracted immersion. Like you really have to become transported and really go all in on these novels.
01:17:13
Speaker
And so um easy to read books are just that, right? They're pleasurable, they're read. You can pick it up while you're on the beach, look up at your kids, make sure they're okay, look back down the book and not be too confused, right? And that's fine. That's great. There's a time and a place for those.
01:17:27
Speaker
But the more complex novels require require you to be in the right state of mind, the right place, um and it's sometimes even the right time of your life for that challenge. And that's okay, too.
01:17:39
Speaker
um
Immersive Classic Reading Experience
01:17:40
Speaker
And so one of the ways that you can kind of get into those is creating um an immersive environment, right? So whether it's lighting candles, um curling up in your favorite chair with a blanket. For me, I've retrained my brain to only Read those books at night in a dark room and on my Kindle while Jason is sleeping beside me.
01:17:58
Speaker
um I think you and I will talk a little bit more about how Kindles are such a great tool um for this. for just the You and I joked about our large font and how who we're old and we really like the large font. And you go to pick up another book and you're whoa, those words are small.
01:18:12
Speaker
Yeah. It's so true. Right? And then I love, I need the dictionary feature of holding my finger on some of the words, especially in older literature and be like, what is that? What does that mean?
01:18:24
Speaker
So, yeah, I think that really being intentional about picking up a classic piece of literature and then kind of going, I'm going to try it. um um Let me give it a chance and I'll create a little space for myself to create it as a new habit.
01:18:36
Speaker
hmm. Yeah, that's such a good point. And ah I'm glad you were talking a little bit about like, hey, if this is not the right time yeah for you, then that's totally okay. Because while classic literature...
01:18:50
Speaker
It is definitely, and I think unarguably, not arguably, and arguably yeah unarguably, yeah ah one of the most, say, nutritiously dense foods that we yeah could consume literally-wise. We're talking generally, too, about long form, right? Which we defined at the beginning as being just something over a thousand words.
01:19:13
Speaker
um Yeah. Yeah. Right. And so that can also be a great thought to take into breaking into long form content. um I remember I went through a huge reading rut when my kids were all babies.
01:19:26
Speaker
And i remember i have a very good friend. We still we have summer movie nights every summer with her sister and her mom. um But when I was in that stage, she would feed me ah her current favorite YA reads.
01:19:41
Speaker
Yeah. And it was like... We'll tell people what YA means in case they don't know. sorry. ah Like young adult fiction. Yep, yep. Right? And so if ah if listeners are familiar, if you guys are familiar with like Shannon Hale, um for example, she wrote and the books of Bayearn series, The Goose Girl, Princess Academy, like those types of books. They pulled me out of a years-long reading rut, right in the thick of having babies. And it got me reading just literal books again.
01:20:11
Speaker
yeah And I've always come back to that as something I'm so grateful for. Another thing to consider, too, is um how newspapers and magazines, yeah and they're making a big comeback, right? yeahp ah print ah Print newspapers, print magazines, and even digitally, like, they are long form.
01:20:32
Speaker
yeah um a thousand words is shorter than we actually think. Yeah. But long-form journalism, especially when it comes to magazines, um and this is from a Wikipedia article I was reading about it, these pieces tend to be more in-depth, require more in-depth analysis, say, than your typical news report or headline or post or you know scroll session.
01:20:59
Speaker
um And many magazines are really taking that seriously. They're trying to produce a lot of interesting think pieces these days, right? Yeah. um And with that resurgent resurgence of in-print magazines too, I think they're really making making a comeback. So all of these things are like little tips and tricks on how we can begin the training process. Because to our point, if this is a marathon for training for a marathon,
01:21:26
Speaker
You don't often just jump off the couch one day decide to go run ah the entire marathon length. So what are some little ways we can start the training?
01:21:37
Speaker
Yeah. And so I started talking about magazines a while You started with newspapers because you and Phil got a subscription a while ago. And then I started buying magazines again because I... and i' And I've said this before, but I canceled all my magazines when I first had Charlotte, my first child. I did not want my daughter growing up in a home with those ads and airbrushed women. I had a really strong aversion to having modern day magazines in my house.
01:22:00
Speaker
At that time, I actually canceled all of those things. So I want to say if you and I still am very um anxious about that. But let me give a little tip. i buy old magazines at antique stores. I'm talking nineteen fifty s nineteen sixty s They are often under $10, which is if you look at the price of magazines now, they're around $7.50. They're expensive.
01:22:21
Speaker
So you can get an old one. And there are different ones. Like the Saturday Evening Post um is filled with short stories. That was the whole point of that magazine. And you get some written by Ray ray Bradbury and big authors. And so you can like really sit. And I realized like housewives would sit all month until they got their next issue and would consume these really great magazines.
01:22:42
Speaker
Yeah. And so whether it's the Saturday Evening Post, which is primarily a collection of short stories, or any of the other ones, um I then don't have to worry about, you know, maybe immodestly dressed women through every page making my daughters feel uncomfortable or me feel uncomfortable um about my own body and all of these things. Or just trying to sell you, sell you, sell you things.
01:23:01
Speaker
At least the ads from 1956, I can't necessarily go buy all those products. Yeah. And don't think I don't want to enter the contests in those old magazines.
01:23:12
Speaker
Just send in little form. I know. I know it's been 60 years. But yeah, so I'm a huge. So every time we go to our local antique store, I buy an old magazine and it just gives me so much pleasure.
01:23:27
Speaker
um i love that.
Value of Whole Music Albums
01:23:29
Speaker
And then just another form of long form content that we might not think about is music. um I have never been a fan of Spotify or anything that kind of just spoon feeds you an algorithm, but that's because I'm a music snob from the 90s, which was the best period of music ever.
01:23:44
Speaker
And you have to like go out and like create your musical personality um at that time and everybody was defined by which albums they had and all that kind of stuff so I'm just still stuck in that that worldview um but um so I'm a huge form of listening to an entire album that was back in the day where you would go buy it a CD and you would read all of the lyrics all the liner notes as you were listening to it and you would go deep into it and I would say that was the tail end of like albums being really produced to almost have an arc Yeah.
01:24:18
Speaker
um but like a lot of like the really good albums throughout history we're really created as an artistic endeavor between and a partnership between the artist and the producer to create a story to really take you on like a musical journey um throughout the whole album.
01:24:33
Speaker
And so you' you miss that. You absolutely miss that if you don't sit and listen to an album in its entirety. And so I feel that, I feel, and it hurts my heart. It hurts my musical heart.
01:24:46
Speaker
That TikTok serves you 15 seconds of a song and then everyone gets sick to death of that song and that artist is done, tossed away. Or that these other things just serve you the hits and you're not ever getting to listen to the B-sides and other ah songs by that artist.
01:25:03
Speaker
So all of that to say, i got my record player, which I talk about all the time, maybe back in 2018. And it sits in my kitchen with a whole bunch of albums. And even I want to sometimes just jump that needle forward, which is a lot harder, right, than skipping a song on your phone.
01:25:20
Speaker
Like gently moving that needle and going, which song is it? counting down like four on the on the record. More precise. Yes. Yeah. It's a little bit extra work. um It's not as hard as a tape recorder, though, having to like fast forward to your next song. Good point.
01:25:34
Speaker
Yeah. But all of that is an exercise, a mental exercise of me like, no, I'm starting it at the beginning and I'm listening to that whole album. And then I'm going to flip it and I'm going to listen to the whole other side.
01:25:45
Speaker
That has really retrained me to listen to albums in their entirety. Now, if you don't want a record player, moms, again, are buying CD players and putting them on the kitchen counter. And they're buying. I would go so far as buying a tape cassette because the other benefit.
01:26:00
Speaker
This is to me what's so important. You're not picking up your phone to shuffle through songs because when you pick up your phone to skip to the next song, what else are you to You're going to check your Instagram.
01:26:11
Speaker
You're going to check everything else. And then boom, it's been an hour and you've been derailed again. And so being able to listen to music, right, and not have your phone near you is really, really, really important to me. That's such a good point.
01:26:24
Speaker
um So I'll be honest here. I've naturally been a shuffled playlist kind of girl and for most of my life. yeah And we've talked about this before, but I'm such a music person.
01:26:35
Speaker
Yeah. Right. And so i don't ah Or historically, I haven't really listened very much to lyrics of songs. Well, right. Yeah. So that's ah yeah but just to confirm what you mean about that. You listen, you get pulled in by the music as a whole, but you're not like a super lyric nerd like me. yeah Yes.
01:26:52
Speaker
which Which is interesting. And I mean, it's not to say that when I am sitting down and intentionally listening to lyrics, I'm not intrigued and I don't enjoy it. yeah But what hooks me to a song is more the music.
01:27:03
Speaker
Right. And so for me, there is no arc. It's just like, whatever, what sounds good. yeah um And Dance Mix 95 was my vibe for most of the 90s.
01:27:16
Speaker
um And there's a place for that, right? Like there's a place for just being like, you know what? Again, like I just, it's like a beach read. I want to just put on those tunes and dance in my kitchen as I'm cleaning up. Absolutely.
01:27:27
Speaker
And ah all that to say too, is that like, we don't have to pick a camp and stay there yeah forever, right? Like um you've definitely inspired me to, So try that, like listening to an entire album, especially trying to look for a concept album yep and then try it out. And i'll I'll talk a little bit more about that later on in the show. But um I have I was like, have I listened to whole albums all the way through, though?
01:27:52
Speaker
ah have listened to this won't take very long. Yeah. the That Max Riders reimagining of Vivaldi's Four Seasons yeah album.
01:28:02
Speaker
I love listening to that. And so maybe there can be an arc for music too. yeah um There's a concept there. Vivaldi was on it. um But then also I was thinking, trying to think of examples.
01:28:15
Speaker
I have always loved listening all the way through to musical soundtracks. for musicals which obviously tells story yes that's what i was going to say do you think that would count as enjoying a whole experience and ah following a storyline from one track to the last one and so maybe that's also a good first place to start yeah as we're trying to practice listening to a whole album and not skip through to certain songs but musicals Find a musical you really love. And there's so many great ones out there.
01:28:48
Speaker
And go through the whole story through the music. Absolutely. And I think that the way my brain works is really enjoy little challenges, right, that I create for myself. I just, I really thrive off that. And so one of the things I realized is, and that's how I started with my Read All the Classics challenge back in 2018, which was supposed to be that one year, but here we are in 2025 I'm still going. Yeah.
01:29:11
Speaker
But the thing with albums is that, yeah, I realized I'm like, okay, I've listened to a lot of albums in my time. And back in the day, and I was only on the tail end of this, but my mom will talk about this back in the day in our classrooms. And I was in grade one, grade two. So this is like mid eighties is we had that, like everybody's headphones plugged into a central unit and you could get like six or eight pairs of headphones around it.
01:29:31
Speaker
And you would play one album and everybody wouldn't listen to it together. Back in the hippie days, everyone would, you know, hit the bong. And or like drop a little acid and they would go on that journey because those concept albums, let's be honest, they were sometimes tied to like a trip. Like you go on like a musical trip and everybody would pull the hippies and my mom's told me this would plug in their headphones and they'd all lay on the ground on the pillows picture a 1970s party in a rec room and you would like go on this musical journey.
01:29:59
Speaker
And I am fascinated by that and that communal idea of listening to an album together. And so while I grew up, and again, I grew up in a home where my parents were like, especially my mom, really big music nut and like gave me all these great albums, Zeppelin and Voldy and all these like really neat albums.
01:30:16
Speaker
But I realized that I hadn't listened to some of the greats. Like I've listened to bits of Pink Floyd over the years, but never started to finish. And that is ah like that all the Pink Floyd albums are huge concept albums and And so I'm like, okay, I want to do this. I'm going to create this challenge for myself.
01:30:31
Speaker
And so I can easily find, you know, 100 rock and roll albums of all time or top but 10 concept albums like just find the list and then just start on a saturday afternoon with your earbud in or as your kids are around like just start the album you might not who has an hour to sit and listen to it we don't but just having it on in the background and i again like i'm a big fan of paying for art but they are all they are all on for free full albums on youtube And um you can just sit and listen to them. So yeah, find the top or or top R&B albums from the 90s. That was a huge genre, right?
01:31:08
Speaker
But just like pick a genre that you like and find the top five and listen to them. Yeah, I love that. And too, this ties in with starting literature too, and how we were talking about like the history and geography and everything that's often involved in that.
01:31:25
Speaker
um Oh, and movies too like setting a little bit of time aside before heading into those things to do a bit of research to lay for yourself a contextual foundation. You can do that with albums too.
01:31:38
Speaker
And so I did that. um The thing I'm going to share this week that I that i loved is is an album, um but that's what I did first. I looked a little bit into the making of the album, the artist, what was going on with them, what ah what the concept was. Yes, just told me. Google just told me what it was. And so I could listen for it. And I will say, i think that made the whole experience for me. So that's a that's a great a great point and a great tip if you want to try something like that.
01:32:09
Speaker
You're right, because doing your research... Yeah.
01:32:17
Speaker
like this is why again reading dickens it's like why does he write so often about people living in poverty well then you read about his life story or what was historically going on during le miserablesabla you have to understand what was going on with the revolution and And so all of these things are their gateways to history and understanding what else was going on at the time and in the artist's life matters. You and I learned that when we were researching for the Friday Finishing School, right? I forget that these composers were real people that lived lives in the 15 And so learning about what's going on in their lives mattered too.
01:32:51
Speaker
And I mean, you read Anna Karenina. I don't care so much about Anna Karenina herself. I care about the secondary characters of Lev and kit Kitty. Lev is Tolstoy himself. It is his life. And it when you understand that, it makes so much more sense.
01:33:06
Speaker
And so you're right. Taking a few minutes. i actually really would recommend that as well. Like before you embark on an album or any of these things, taking a few minutes to learn about it first. will help you so much.
01:33:19
Speaker
And then, ah so let's just jump forward to modern music. There is a great thing on YouTube that shows you, um that breaks down the sampling layers of music to get you to modern day pop songs or rap or, and you realize I always brush off modern music as like, because my husband loves dance music. He loves trance. He loves DJs. He loves all of that stuff.
01:33:39
Speaker
And I'm like, oh, there's nothing happening in that music. Well, I'm wrong. Because any of the best, especially like Daft Punk, like really good creators, um you listen to any of these songs and their scope of musical knowledge of random little riffs from a blues song from 1947 or whatever, right? You're like, oh my goodness, their depth of knowledge, like The Simpsons. Yeah.
01:34:02
Speaker
It's huge. But you don't get that until you also expand your knowledge of each one of those genres. And then one more point on Instagram. I forget the name of the account, but it's like behind the songs or like it takes you a little bit deeper into each song.
01:34:15
Speaker
So like let's take a Sabrina Carpenter. Her song, Please, Please, Please. I was watching a little of the making of that song. To me, it's just a pop song. But then when you actually see the amount of effort the producer went into with her five layers of harmonization at certain points, and then the 1980s keyboard riffs mixed with a string arrangement that you can barely pick up on in the background. i was like, whoa, Lindsay, stop being so judgy over Sabrina Carpenter. Like there's so much happening and all that.
01:34:41
Speaker
But again, the more you take in the bigger picture of all of this stuff, the more you can appreciate and and see your palate expands. Mm-hmm. Wow.
01:34:54
Speaker
I know there's always so much. And I was just thinking those creators yeah probably would love for us to do this.
Curated vs Algorithmic Music Experience
01:35:03
Speaker
Yes. Right. Like, I just keep thinking, like, wouldn't that just make a current pop star's day to sit them down in an interview instead of asking them the typical interview questions we hear.
01:35:17
Speaker
Ask them more about like, hey, I heard you tried, you fought really hard to bring in a string quartet. Like, Tell us about that decision. and like, they're like, yay yeah I get to talk about like my creative process.
01:35:32
Speaker
So yeah, it could just, it's that integration again, right? well It's going to bring, yeah, new levels of connection. ChatGPT talks about this. It says, albums give you a curated, cohesive experience that deepens the emotional engagement, improves memory, broadens taste, and strengthens, here, this is the important part, the artist-listener relationship.
01:35:56
Speaker
Benefits the algorithmic, oh, um the the benefits that the algorithmic shuffle increases. listening often dilutes so when you just yeah are following the algorithmic shuffle it dilutes that artist listener relationship and all of those other things and i think that that yeah is such do we owe it to them i think is what you're saying and i think that we do and so um if they've put all their effort into making these things yeah i want to give it a ah really good listen and not just the 15 seconds of fame that it gets on tiktok and then it's just thrown away And I think that we're not alone in this. The
Balancing Content Forms for Enrichment
01:36:30
Speaker
biggest trend that I've seen this summer is the nineteen ninety s summer, right? Whether it's a 1990s summer for your kids, so like bologna sandwiches and juice boxes and not feeling guilty about it, or as I've kind of zeroed it out for myself as the nineteen ninety s mom summer.
01:36:46
Speaker
And so many people, so many people are buying DVDs and DVD players and wanting to really hearken back to this other way of consuming long form content and putting their phones down. And um so I just saw moms buying the TVs that have the little, like the small ones that have the DVD player built in at the bottom ah or VHS, and they're putting them on the corner of their kitchen um counter again.
01:37:14
Speaker
which is what I grew up with. And so many of us had a TV on the counter in the kitchen. Ours was black and white because I'm ancient. um But it's, um I love that. I'm like, oh my gosh. Now, if my living room and kitchen weren't adjacent to each other with a TV, you can see, i would 100% be buying a TV from my kitchen counter.
01:37:32
Speaker
Because again, you're not having your phone on in the background. You can pop a movie in as you're cooking or something quiet in the background. And I just, I love this trend. Mm hmm.
01:37:43
Speaker
Yeah, I love that, too. I love seeing all of us rediscover um owning content. Yes. yeah and Right. Owning content with the specific intention to enjoy it for everything that it is. And I think that's what it cycles back to.
01:38:01
Speaker
So I loved this conversation. i think it was just an honest conversation between two friends who find a lot of pleasure in our phones and funny reels and TikToks and all of that I think is normal and it is 2025 and those things aren't going to go away anytime soon. And so we're not going to sit here feeling guilty ah about just wanting to tune out after a long day and scroll through some reels.
01:38:24
Speaker
It's going to happen. Do it. Enjoy it But this call from to to greatness, this call for more, right? This call to dig deeper and expand the things that we're interested in, to have more to talk about with people than just a reel that we saw, to talk about books and music and ah and the architecture of great literature And films, I just think that that's such a great challenge for ourselves. And that as especially as homemakers, we have this great opportunity to consume things longer.
01:38:57
Speaker
We have a bit more time in our days, ian especially with our children around introducing these things. This is something we can do while our children are babies, while our toddlers are at our feet. um This is not something that has to just be squeezed in at the end of our already exhausting days.
01:39:13
Speaker
And I think that this is important to remember. Our brains aren't broken. They can always relearn. They can always heal and grow bigger and take in more.
01:39:24
Speaker
And so It's okay for enjoying those other forms of entertainment, short form content, but it's better. it is this always this call to be better, to grow more, to take in these longer forms of content.
01:39:40
Speaker
If we're not just saying that as opinion, the data backs it up, our brain scans back it up. But be the first one in your friend group to do that and introduce it to everybody else in your family and friend group and be excited about it because there's so much out there just waiting for you to enjoy.
01:40:09
Speaker
Okay, it's time
Recommendations and Conclusion
01:40:10
Speaker
for our What We're Loving This Week segment of the show. So Lindsay, what have you been loving this week? Well, it piggybacks off what we were just talking about because I realized that one of the...
01:40:20
Speaker
my favorite forms of content if I need to relax. um I naturally go for long form content, but I find it on YouTube. So I'm not so much of a scroller on my phone. If I need to relax and crash out, I sit on the couch with my breakfast or my coffee and I put on a YouTube video. And so I'm always looking for that middle road content, like 20 to 30 minutes for my break. And I just would much rather sink into that than I would scrolling my phone.
01:40:45
Speaker
So I have a lot like YouTube and spending the money on YouTube premium has been like the best gift to myself um without having to have ads all the time. so I'm going to share a YouTuber who i I've been loving. um Her name is Lauren Lease and that's spelled L-I-E-S-S. You can find her on Instagram also under that name.
01:41:05
Speaker
Her videos kept popping up a few times in my YouTube algorithm and I kept passing over them. And then I was like, okay, fine, just watch one. And I became an instant fan. The first thing I noticed is her like down to earth beauty and warmth. And I was shocked when I started counting her kids. Cause I was like, okay, yep. They, she has five kids, a bigger family.
01:41:23
Speaker
And I'll just be honest. I instantly am like, oh, she's ah another Mormon beauty. Um, cause she's blonde and beautiful and all these little blonde haired kids running around. I'm like, okay, she's another Mormon influencer. But I was shocked to find out they're Catholic. They're practicing Catholics. And I had no idea because that was not like the theme of their their their channel.
01:41:40
Speaker
So, um yeah. So Lauren and her husband, Dave, they run a home design company. And her they feature their projects, whether it's their own home or some other places that they do on their channel. They've just finished their dream house, which is called The Meadow. So if you're looking at their channel, channel anything that says The Meadow is their current home.
01:41:57
Speaker
And they also have ah another series on their YouTube channel called Saving Lost Cottages. And it involves cottages along the Outer Banks in North Carolina that they have a really passion for. it And they wanted to save old cottages that were for sale that people would normally like tear down and build some big new cottage in its place.
01:42:14
Speaker
They'd been buying them up and then restoring them but trying to keep the original character and then either renting them out or selling them. So that's a beautiful series as well. She speaks very quietly as she narrates over the videos. um ah Her and her husband are so respectful in the way that they interact with each other. They work together.
01:42:31
Speaker
The kids all help on every project. And then as a bonus, they have a second series on their YouTube channel called, um, Down to Earth Kitchen, where she's been cooking with ingredients from their gardens. And so you have a little cooking show.
01:42:44
Speaker
And it's just, it's a lovely, lovely channel. So Lauren Lease. And if you do start following her, let her know you that you heard about her on the Modern Lady podcast. So maybe we can connect with her.
01:42:55
Speaker
That's amazing. I'm just looking her up now on Instagram. And i I hadn't heard of her before. So I'm just, I'm definitely going to check her out. and You're going love her. Yeah. So what have you been loving this week?
01:43:09
Speaker
Well, this is funny because as I alluded to before, I took your advice about trying to listen to a whole album start to finish. Yeah. And I chose my first one. And it's also about a Lauren.
01:43:22
Speaker
Yes. Lauren Hill? Yes. Yes. A classic. Oh, I'm so excited. So good. The Miseducation of Lauren Hill is what I am loving this week.
01:43:33
Speaker
I've always loved her songs. I've always really enjoyed 90s hip hop. hmm. um And R&B, I don't know why, it just really hits me. but um So with Lauryn Hill, I've always loved a few of her songs from that album.
01:43:49
Speaker
yeah I saw it come up on lists of concept albums, so was like, perfect, I'm intrigued. Yeah. Did my preliminary background research first, like how we do with movies.
01:44:00
Speaker
Yeah. um And I loved learning about what this whole album is about. And, you know, if you want the deep dive, I'll just briefly summarize it here.
01:44:11
Speaker
It's Lauren's whole take on what love is in different contexts of her life at that time. What it looks like for her, what she's learning about love.
01:44:22
Speaker
But the concept is so creative because the album opens up right with an introduction. Yeah. And it's a high school class that's going on. um The teacher is leading the kids in a discussion on love. And that was actually recorded in her living room.
01:44:37
Speaker
I read, too. And all she told the guy playing the teacher was just lead them in a discussion about love. What is love? And they took snippets of that.
01:44:49
Speaker
So in this introduction, though, the teacher is taking attendance and Lauren Hill is noticeably absent. Mm-hmm. um So the rest of the tracks on the album feature songs where Lauren is describing how she's learning about love in all different ways. So some songs, you know, they take us through her friendships or working relationships.
01:45:12
Speaker
um There's a beautiful song dedicated to her newborn son, um talks songs that talk about her love of God. about romantic love unrequited love all these different things but what i found so cool about it is that at the end of every track you cycle back to this that classroom yeah where the teacher and the students are still discussing love in a more formal school-like setting yeah and so the fact that lauren is missing from class alludes to the album's title her miseducation right um
01:45:47
Speaker
And while all the other kids may be learning about love in more of an academic capacity... she's out there in the real world learning about love through real life experiences. So my gosh, right.
01:46:00
Speaker
That made me think I'm like, so is it kind of a cheeky, like tongue in cheek? Like, is it her, is it a miseducation really? or is she learning on a much deeper level than the kids are in the classroom? So that's kind of for us to discover and decide with Lauren over the course of the album. So All that to say, see, learning the context before diving into the album made the whole experience really enjoyable for me.
01:46:27
Speaker
um I don't think there's any explicit content or swearing. i was actually really touched by some of the heartfelt pro-life sentiments throughout the album. Mm-hmm. The ballad to her newborn son was really moving in that regard.
01:46:45
Speaker
And so I thought it was ah definitely a good first experience with a concept album and just goes to show like that was 1998. ninety ninety eight So that is probably really close to the hearts of a lot of artists.
01:47:00
Speaker
Probably even today, like what you were saying, to have and actually a main message arcing throughout there their albums. So I have never listened to that whole album, but I do know it is is very critically acclaimed. Like that is considered one of the greatest albums of all time. So you have inspired me. I am so pumped.
01:47:17
Speaker
Yeah. Yay. And listen to that whole album today as I clean. Mind you summer. Absolutely. She is fantastic. And I've just been waiting for, you know her song, on That Thing You Do. How does it go? That thing. Do you want?
01:47:30
Speaker
Yes. Yeah. So that video, yeah i don't know if you're familiar with the video with like the split screen of her performing in the same location. And then, oh, you've got to see the video. So in one half of the screen, I don't even know if it's black and white, but she's performing in the 1960s clothing. Looks very much like Diana Ross and the Supremes. And she's singing on the street and everybody's dressed in the 60s. And then it's modern day Lauryn Hill, 1998 Lauryn Hill on the other side. And I'm like, girl, you need to do a third split screen and bring it up to today because I need her to redo that video. and just And she went on to have ah so many kids. i don't know she has seven or nine kids. She fully threw herself into motherhood later. She has seven.
01:48:06
Speaker
six kids like oh because i've deep dived her okay yeah incredible incredible and so i am you have me so excited gosh isn't this fun and this is how we do it this is how we get our friends excited about these things and it is a game changer to listen to that album and like you said it is deeply embedded in your memory now you've encoded it into your memory and you are going to reflect back on that music now and you would have never enjoyed you would have never heard those songs before ever. You would probably go through your whole life never having heard those songs. So, oh, thanks, Michelle. I'm so excited.
01:48:43
Speaker
Okay, that's going to do it for us this week. If you want to get in touch and chat with us about our topic today, you can find us on our website, www.themodernlady1950.wordpress.com,
01:48:55
Speaker
or leave us a comment on Facebook, Instagram, and YouTube at The Modern Lady Podcast. I'm Michelle Sachs, and you can find me on Instagram at mmsachs.
01:49:05
Speaker
And I'm Lindsay Murray, and you can find me on Instagram at lindsayhomemaker. Thank you so much for listening. Have a great week and we will see you next time.