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Episode 86 - Perfect Tides: Station to Station
2 Playsin 6 hours
Matt and Roses BOTH play games from their ranking list that they both dislike, though one is grumpier about it than the other. See if you can tell which one.
After much rambling about classic point n clicks, Matt and Roses finally discuss (and gush over) the wonderfully written Perfect Tides: Station to Station.
Games Mentioned:
- Order of the Sinking Star
- The Witness
- Braid
- Boxl
- Sokoban
- Gilbert Goodmate and the Mushroom of Phungoria
- Jazz and Faust
- Dark Earth
- The Tragedy at Deer Creek
- Perfect Tides: Station to Station
Email us! mattandroses@gmail.com
Join our Discord: https://discord.gg/fPv7hRgTeV
Follow us on Instagram: instagram.com/saveyourgamepodcast
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Transcript
The $17,000 Mistake: Hanson Swanson's Impact
00:00:00
Speaker
you're not going to be happy with me. What did you do now? I didn't do it. I didn't do anything. I've just been sitting around. I've just been sitting around being depressed. And I've done, i did absolutely not. In fact, if I had done something, maybe it would be better. Okay. um Well, you know, we haven't heard from our producer in a long time.
00:00:24
Speaker
What, Hanson? Hanson Swanson. Yeah. Remember, okay, for listeners, ah for new listeners, we got an email a while back and he it said improve your SEO.
00:00:37
Speaker
Uh... ah It's from a guy named Hanson Swanson. It said, improve your SEO. people People want to see your YouTube videos. And if you, you know, like my company is here to improve your SEO, whatever it was, something like that. yeah And I sent him $17,000. That was our whole budget. I know. And I didn't talk to you about it first. And it was really foolish of me.
00:01:03
Speaker
Our friendship almost deteriorated because of this. ah And we, you know, he did not improve our SEO, but he did buy our podcast from us and he owns it and he produces it.
00:01:16
Speaker
And his name is Hanson Swanson. didn't tell me that. You didn't mention that he owns the podcast. I'm pretty sure we, I'm trying to remember the lore here. I'm pretty sure this is established. And if not, it's changed. If not, it changed. He owns it now. And...
Hanson's Extradition and the Washington Gig
00:01:33
Speaker
As our producer, I did finally hear from him again. he i think for a little while, he he was like he was living in Andorra, I think.
00:01:43
Speaker
I thought he was in the basement. Yeah, I went into my basement, which absolutely exists, and wasn't he wasn't there. don't have a basement. And then I got a letter from the Andorran.
00:01:58
Speaker
Wow. um uh what do you call it the embassy okay saying that he's to report to the embassy immediately for extradition and the list of countries was supposed to be extradited to was it was like 17 different countries who is hansen so who did you hire did you not vet this person Regardless, he's back in town.
00:02:24
Speaker
i don't know where he's living now, but he did get us a live gig. you didn't tell me that. You didn't say you were looking. You don't tell me anything. I didn't. I wasn't looking again. I was moping. i had no idea any of this was happening. you know you can say no to stuff, right? We cannot say no to Hanson Swanson. I can't explain why, but it would be a bad idea for us to say no to Hanson Swanson. He's dweeb.
00:02:52
Speaker
see even dweebs could be dangerous um so anyway i guess what i need to tell you is that we are okay we are booked and i think we are the only artist left on at adventure x he booked us at adventure x right right Okay, we're booked at the Freedom 250 concert um in Washington, D.C. for America's 250th birthday.
00:03:27
Speaker
I hate it here. i Look, i I don't like it either. but but What are we supposed to do there? ah What do you want us to do there, Matt? Apparently, apparently the administration is getting into the adventure game racket. What? Because of how profitable it is.
00:03:50
Speaker
And they want us to give positive reviews of their games. um let
Ethical Dilemma: Reviewing Government Games
00:03:54
Speaker
Let me look up some of the titles here. Here, I'll send you a list and we can read them back and forth. Oh, good. All right, you get the email? Yes.
00:04:02
Speaker
Yes. Okay, so, ah okay, let's see, what it would if which which do we want to talk about? The first one is, oh it's a walking simulator called The Very Lonely 45. And it is you walk around, apparently you walk away around the White House and you ah you're the only one left there.
00:04:25
Speaker
And you have to read all of the president's diary entries. Yeah. What's the goal? It's supposed to be just like a tearjerker. I don't know. Who developed this game? It's like Gone Home only in the White House. And instead of learning all about your gay sister, you're supposed to feel bad for the president.
00:04:47
Speaker
Oh, that's the one developed by like USA Eagle Government yeah you see Association. Yeah, I've heard of them. Yeah, I see that's the only developer they have on this list, actually.
00:05:00
Speaker
um Yeah, there's a there's a lot here. There's um there's a point, there's a what looks like a silly point and click adventure called Ice Capades. I'm legit depressed now. You play an Ice, you have to play Ice agent and you get into all sorts of wacky hijinks while committing basically a genocide. Okay, can I give them bad reviews? No, we have to give them positive reviews. What are you talking about? Okay, you list a few.
00:05:30
Speaker
I mean, have you heard about the point and click called is it hair or is it not? Yeah, I think that's one of those. Yeah, it looks like that's one of those like um it's inspired by what's that guy's name who does um papers, please and stuff.
00:05:43
Speaker
Oh, ah ah Pope. Pope? Lucas Pope. Yeah. lucas It's like Lucas Pope inspired and every single member of the administration comes up to you and you have to decide whether their hair is hair or is it or it not or is it something else. But here's the thing. Here's the thing about that game. It's presented whimsically, right? It's presented whimsically and like lighthearted, but there's a dark twist there.
00:06:08
Speaker
I can't imagine what could possibly be dark about basically any of these games.
00:06:16
Speaker
This one's one of those,
Podcast Introduction and Game Critiques
00:06:17
Speaker
like, ah um interactive... ah It's like a Windows game. Yeah, one of those Windows games. like one of those really meta Windows games. Yeah, hit that's it. That's it. Interface. And you have to go through, like, literal files. It looks like these, yeah, you have to go through all these files. And i it's like there's, like, a mystery about what the files are. and I know. And some people are just named. fuck. Roses.
00:06:41
Speaker
What? It's the Epstein files. Oh, my God. Shut up. Ha, ha, ha, ha, ha. Oh my God. All right. ah Maybe they won't make us review that one. um Oh, did you see did you see the hidden object game called JD Vance buys a donut?
00:07:00
Speaker
ah yeah Yeah, you have to collect a bunch of stuff that um that JD Vance might think are donuts. So it's also it also is like a deduction game a little bit. So like, it's just a bunch of foods.
00:07:14
Speaker
There's a loose crank in that one. I don't know if you knew. It's not the it's not the like straight crank. It's like the the um the round crank because it kind of looks like a donut. I thought you were saying the loose crank was J.D. Vance.
00:07:51
Speaker
Hey everyone, welcome back to Save Your Game. I am one of your um exhausted guests. Guests? Guests? I'm a guest. You're guest now. You've been demoted.
00:08:04
Speaker
I forgot that Hanson Swanson actually demoted me. I'm now guest because I refuse to give any of these games higher than 0.5 rating. So I've been demoted. I'm just a guest now, but we still a host.
00:08:19
Speaker
it's It's you. Oh, I thought it was Reince Priebus. Who's... from
00:08:29
Speaker
Okay, yeah, yeah, I'm the host. ah ah ah My name's Matt Aukamp. If you don't hear from us ever again, we're in hiding from the...
00:08:44
Speaker
and the ah Government? Government, I guess. Yeah, I guess. Yeah, we get hunted down because we didn't do the concert. Us and Milli Vanilli.
00:08:54
Speaker
No, no. Milli Vanilli was the one that said yes, right? They're the ones who were like. And it wasn't even like, it's not like the Milli Vanilli who people know. It's like. Well, no, because one of the, one of the, one of the, I mean, the I don't want to call musicians because the whole thing is that they weren't singing. But one of them passed.
00:09:15
Speaker
Yes. It's only Milli. And I think it was, I think the person who said yes might be to the, first the might be like,
00:09:28
Speaker
um
00:09:31
Speaker
not Millie, but like but one of the guys who did write the actual music. Yeah. And nobody knows who they are. like it's like A guy comes out on stage that's like this just like old person who nobody's ever seen before. It's like, hi, I'm Milli Vanilli and I love I love ah deporting immigrants.
00:09:58
Speaker
Great. That's so sad. Roses. yeah We have to stop puffy faffing around because we have so much shit to talk about today. I really, really want to create Is It Hair or Is It Not Hair?
00:10:12
Speaker
like that title because it's long and stupid, like some of the ranking titles that we've been getting into. You should learn Godot and then you can create Is It Hair Is It Hair? Is it hair or is it not hair? It's a great title, you guys.
00:10:28
Speaker
Roses. Yes. we're goingnna We're going to have a lot to say about the game, you know that our title game of this episode. You don't have to keep it a secret. It's in the title. They clicked on it.
00:10:38
Speaker
i' have a billion fucking games to talk about, and I think you even have one to talk about. Yeah. but Do you do want me to go first? You don't sound excited.
00:10:52
Speaker
Yeah, you go. I mean, what's the name of this segment, Things That You're Enjoying? i can't really say that I enjoyed what I played, but I will enjoy talking about it. You can go first. You go first. What have you been playing slash enjoying slash doing slash? Some of these are enjoying and some of these are just playing. So, um all right.
00:11:13
Speaker
First, I don't know if I should. All right. I'll save the really cool one. Right before we got on this call. I was actually playing a demo that came out today as as of recording.
00:11:28
Speaker
Okay. It is called Order of the Sinking Star. You didn't tell me there was a demo that you were playing that's an adventure game. It is, well, hit okay, it is by Jonathan Blow. It's the new Jonathan Blow game.
Game Mechanics and Innovation
00:11:46
Speaker
The Witness was what, 11 years ago or something? Maybe more. Let me see. Yeah, yeah. Witness was 2016. Yes. Or it's 10 years ago. Okay. So like 10, yeah, 10. Wow.
00:11:58
Speaker
Yes. A little over 10 years ago. um And his follow-up game is called Order of the Sinking Star. And it is a, it's this wild, it's this Sokoban game.
00:12:10
Speaker
Do you know what a Sokoban game is? No. So Sokoban game is like those block pushing, those ah the block pushing games, right? Oh no, I'm terrible at those. Little maze and you have to move the blocks around. If there's like blocks in the Zelda games, i like I'm like paralyzed with fear. Everyone hates block pushing games and games that aren't about block pushing. Like when you're playing another game and then suddenly you have to push blocks around, you're like, what the fuck? What am I even doing right now?
00:12:41
Speaker
But- This is an entire Sokoban game. um And I played a little bit of it. Really beautiful. It looks beautiful, yeah. It takes place in this like these this like series of like enchanted medieval kind of like gardens. um And there's there's a plot that's un that's developing. And you play what looks like a queen or a princess or something. And she's going around and she is finding...
00:13:11
Speaker
Like, she'll find an obstacle, and you will interact with it, and it'll suddenly cut to these other characters. And all of them have powers. So in the demo, I've only seen three, but it looks from screenshots like there's going to be way more.
00:13:27
Speaker
Where, again, Sakabon puzzles. You've got a big, strong guy. He can push blocks. You've got this thief girl, and she pulls any block...
00:13:40
Speaker
That she is ah ahdja in one of the cardinal directions, too. So she won't pull it diagonally, obviously, because it suck but but she will pull it um north or south, any direction it can go.
00:13:57
Speaker
And you can't stop, this this is another thing, you can't stop her from pulling it. So that, like, adds to the challenge. um And then there's, like, a big fat wizard guy who switches places with any block that's in a direct line with him.
00:14:12
Speaker
In a direct uninterrupted line with him. He switches places with a block? He becomes a block? No, he switches places. So the block goes where he was and he goes the block was.
00:14:25
Speaker
The vision I had in my head was ah unhinged for a second. So each of them were cool in and of themselves, right? Like it was fun to solve Sakabon puzzles in this these like slightly skewed ways, right? Yeah. But um as you as I got further in, they start putting two or three of them together.
00:14:48
Speaker
And then you have to combine like you have to switch between characters and combine them to get through these Sakabon puzzles. So maybe you'll drag you'll have the girl drag a thing to the end of a hallway where
The Repetitiveness Concern
00:15:03
Speaker
there's um there's you can't she can't push it to the very end of the hallway because there needs to be a space for her body, right?
00:15:10
Speaker
Does that make sense? Because she will always take up the block in the the space in front of the block. So you drag it all the way to the end and then move her out of the way and then take the pushing guy and he pushes it the rest of the way, that like one extra space, and then she can drag it into the next room now that it's around the corner.
00:15:29
Speaker
Or... well And another thing, like, you find that you can also move and switch places with, like, you can also use these powers on each other. So the wizard guy can just, if he is in a direct line of sight with the strong man, he can switch places with that strong man.
00:15:51
Speaker
And it it is restricted by you not entirely having control. You can't, again, if you are the girl... and you are adjacent to a block, and you walk in a direction away from the block that is open, she'll pull the block with her. You can't you can't make her not. yeah um And same with the wizard. If you are in direct line of sight with a block, he will and you click in its direction, he'll switch places with it. So if you need him to walk right, but 18 spaces to his right is a block...
00:16:28
Speaker
He's not going to walk right. He's going switch places with that block. So if you want him if you want him to not go that far for some reason, if you need him to reach something closer, you might have to grab somebody else and have them put something closer to him.
00:16:44
Speaker
hu So he switches places with that and doesn't go quite as far. It really seems like it's it's growing into something really fucking cool. I don't know what sort of I already started to get tired of it just in the demo.
00:17:01
Speaker
Oh, no. Not like, not like eternally tired of it, but like, okay, I'm, I'm getting a little, this is a lot. um Yeah. I mean, but I still assume it's it's a little bit repetitive.
00:17:14
Speaker
Yes. um And he does, again, like he's doing all these interesting things to make it less repetitive, but it is in the end of the day, it is just a Sakabon game. You are just pushing blocks around and trying to put them on switches and, um,
00:17:29
Speaker
So i I'm a little worried that when this when the full game comes out, it's not going to be something that I'm going to want to play the whole right thing of. No, definitely not.
00:17:48
Speaker
um Which is shame because I love Braid and I love The Witness. Mm-hmm. I have a question.
00:17:59
Speaker
Yeah. Why can't you just climb over the rock?
00:18:08
Speaker
You've done it. You've solved Sockobon. They did. we've been They've been waiting. You're the chosen one. They've been waiting for you all this time. Listen, you're making fun, but it's because you don't know. You don't know why you can't go over. Since when second can but when when when Box Boy came out on... on Game Boy, the original Game Boy.
00:18:31
Speaker
People have been waiting. what was that Was that Box Boy? What was that? the first? I don't know if it's the first Sokoban game, but it was like one of those early Sokoban games. I remember having it for Game Boy.
00:18:46
Speaker
going to look it up. Yeah, look it up. What's the first one? Or the at least the first ah mainstream one. First, I'm going to say Sokoban game for Game Boy and see if it comes up.
00:18:58
Speaker
Oh, it's called Boxel? Boxel? That's weird. I have a different answer. i didn't look up first box, first one. i just looked up Sokoban game for Game Boy, the game that I played a whole bunch, and it was Boxel.
00:19:13
Speaker
Boxel. Okay. First ever Sokoban game. says it's um like Warehouse Keeper. Okay, that makes sense. Wow, what a fun time. I definitely want to play a game where I am the janitor of a warehouse and I just got to push some fucking crates. You just got to get the bog the crates to the right spot. No, you don't understand. We're not getting them to the right place. They're in the right place. They're in the warehouse. We just need to push them.
00:19:42
Speaker
Oh. Yeah.
00:19:45
Speaker
And if there's a way, you cannot climb over them. Here's what's so fucking funny about this, and I had no idea. The first Sakoban game is called Sakoban.
00:19:56
Speaker
yeah yeah. Which translates to Warehouse Keeper. Yeah, in and And i was I was kind of right. Because it... Boxel...
00:20:13
Speaker
Is it... Boxel is also known as Sakoban. Is it a remake of Sakoban?
00:20:21
Speaker
I don't know. i i don't have the I don't have the time or energy to research this at the moment. I do, and I'm going to dedicate so much of my time. It does it actually does. it actually does look like it is some kind of, not remake, but like reimagining or something for the Game Boy. Yeah.
00:20:43
Speaker
So yeah, I don't... You know, i there's ah there's a little bit... I'm ah im i'm slightly disappointed that the That you can't climb over the box. Me too. That the next ah Jonathan Blow game is a Sockobon game. But isn the bit that I played so far is really, really fucking cool. So maybe he will... yeah You know, maybe it'll be...
00:21:11
Speaker
It's already surprising. Maybe it'll get even more surprising and i'll end up loving it as much as I loved his previous two games. so Yeah. It's interesting that he is ah seems to be experimenting with different genres because Braid was a game. He
Motivation and Criticism of 'Gilbert Goodmate'
00:21:27
Speaker
e worked on Braid, right?
00:21:28
Speaker
Yes. That's so different than The Witness and The Witness. And those two games are so different from like a Sakabon game. So that's really interesting to me. They all do they all do similar things to your brain.
00:21:41
Speaker
Yeah. But using different genres, right? Yeah, i agree. So like playing The Witness being like, oh, this is the guy who made Braid. Yeah. And he made a new game. And then you play The Witness. You're like, what the fuck? Yeah. Yeah. But The Witness is incredible. And it pushes it again. it It like shoves your brain in these ways where you're like.
00:22:03
Speaker
ah pushes them sort of to to their limits and I i think that's that's a really cool through line for his work yeah um do you want to say yours now or do you want me i think I have two more yeah I'll say it okay I just want to say something to you Matt specifically and only you I did everything I said I was going to do before this episode I'm so proud of you. yeah that's right.
00:22:37
Speaker
When I get spiteful, I get motivated. So I played the game we're playing today. And yeah, I did play Gilbert Good Grape and the Mushroom of Fungoria.
00:22:47
Speaker
you think it's good, mate. Whatever.
00:22:54
Speaker
How much of Gilbert Good Mate did you play? Like two hours, man, which is way too many more hours than should have played. Okay, how was it?
00:23:05
Speaker
Horrible. I don't like this game. It is having an an artistic aesthetic crisis. if This game is ugly. I'm sorry. There's no other way to say It it is ugly. The choices are ugly.
00:23:22
Speaker
um Okay, well, you did send me a picture of the inventory. I did. and That was you said two minutes in. You were two minutes in. You had, like, seven things in your inventory already, and one of them was a loose crank. Honestly, it was it actually it was broken at that time. I had to fix it. I had to make a super glue to fix the loose crank. Broken loose crank. Gilbert Goodgrape is an innovator. Yeah, yeah.
00:23:51
Speaker
Yeah. Listen. This game is somehow worse than how we rated it. ah for First of all, yes, I think it's it's very ugly. It's got multiple types of art in it. And I think this was made in like 2001. So if it was, and it is, it is inspired by Curse of Monkey Island. You saw the inventory. It has a coin for like a...
00:24:14
Speaker
What are those called? A click coin? A verb coin. A verb coin, yeah. That's one of those. It's a mushroom. Scary. I don't like it. And ah it's just so much worse quality than Curse of Monkey Island. And it's not that we didn't have the tech. We did, guys. We did have it. Look at something like, you know, King's Quest 7, which some people don't like. I understand that. But those backgrounds, you can't argue that those are not beautiful backgrounds. Those are gorgeous backgrounds. Like a lot of work went into the the detail and the art of that game. This, I can't say the same. it's It's so hideous. So much of is brown. It's super close up and in your face.
00:25:00
Speaker
The puzzles are bad. The first puzzle I did was like mixing a glue out of biscuit ingredients, which are not not defined. Yeah, biscuit ingredients, hair grease. He's just like, wait a second. Hold on, hold on, hold on.
00:25:15
Speaker
Yes. Biscuit ingredients that are not defined. He says, I've got some biscuit ingredients. Yeah, it's on the table. Yeah. And then... It's like, I need some glue. and then you the thing that you need to glue, you combine the biscuit ingredients with, and he says... He said, I made super he says i made superg glue.
00:25:38
Speaker
And you don't even know how he made super glue. No, I just combined a bunch of shit into a mixer. i put resin. Just kill me now. I put resin into a mixer with some biscuit ingredients and some hair grease and it made super glue. Just ruined a KitchenAid over here. and it's Wow. It sounds great. It's so... i think we ranked it too high. I'm going to be real honest with You're allowed to move it. you now I know. I can move it now.
00:26:08
Speaker
Now that you. It's also broken, which kind of fucking sucks. And I can't tell if that's how it is or because this was 2001. It is hard to emulate a game from 2001.
00:26:21
Speaker
It's for sale on Steam. Yeah. It so like has some issues. yeah But beyond those issues, it does work the majority of the time. the the voice acting's bad my dude and the the dialogue trees go on and on about the most mundane uninteresting shit you've ever heard i don't want to talk to any of these characters it is so boring they just go on and on about nothing yeah is it one of those things where it's like um
00:26:55
Speaker
there's There's absolutely, like you're not getting clues. You're not getting story. It's just. Yeah, you're not. Oh, you're definitely not really getting clues. No. In fact, it's so bad. i've got to do a video on this. And i and everyone knows I'm a very fair reviewer.
00:27:12
Speaker
I will find something okay to say about this game because at the end of the day, people worked hard on it. It is a piece of art. You're going play the whole thing? i am. i am going to play it. where ru to give you just Just to give you a taste of the humor.
00:27:25
Speaker
Okay. Okay, please. Okay. The taste of the humor. So on our verb coin, there's usually, this is pretty common. You have eyeballs, a mouth for talking, and like something for for interact, something for taking. Okay. And ah there was like, our grandpa had made like biscuits, like a plate of biscuits with the biscuit ingredients. With the biscuit ingredients that also became super glue. i mean Yeah, I made glue out of those.
00:27:48
Speaker
um I tried talking to the biscuits because I wanted to eat them. I didn't actually want to talk to them. So I used my mouth to talk to them. But he instead talked to them. Okay. As you do. And he said, hibiscus, isn't that a type of flour? Hibiscus, isn't that a type of flour? Hibiscus, yeah. hibiscus.
00:28:15
Speaker
I'm like, i I can't. I can't. oh Wait, but wait. I'm just going to briefly, before you speak, there is a story to this game, by the way. And it's not very Monkey Island-y at all. So even though the majority, it does look like Curse of Monkey Island, the music is...
00:28:32
Speaker
borderline plagiarism here um the story is that the kingdom of vangoria was like under a witch's spell or a wizard's spell so they sent out a knight like this bumbling knight to go defeat him And he almost dies during this. This wizard's like casting magic at him and he almost dies. He's on the ground and he looks to his right and there's a giant mushroom and he fucking takes that mushroom and beats the shit out of the wizard and he dies. With a mushroom.
00:29:07
Speaker
With a mushroom. But wizard's dead. The wizard's dead. The wizard was dead and buried from a mushroom. with The mushroom's flopping around everywhere. I'm not real happy with the visuals at this point. so ah He brings the mushroom back to fun Goria and because this is like clearly, clearly this is like a magical mushroom. You can't kill someone with a mushroom. So they like, they put it on display, like under all these safeguards. And now, now you're cut to present day. I don't, I don't remember how long it's been, but this was in the past or cut to present day.
00:29:39
Speaker
And Gilbert's grandfather is the keeper of the mushroom. He is the he is the security guard for this mushroom. ok And he's looking just looking over the mushroom. He's taking care of it. He's like, I'll be right there, Gilbert. I'm tending to the mushroom. Which, like, how long does it take? How long does it take to tend to the mushroom? To tend to a mushroom. Okay. A mushroom that is tough enough to beat a man to death. So not like...
00:30:07
Speaker
So not like a a fragile mushroom. No, it is not. It's not fragile. And so like he's tending to the mushroom or whatever. yeah And I guess from Gilbert's house into the town, it's displayed into the town. They have this little telescope that they can always use to look at it to see if it's still there. and So Gilbert's looking through this telescope. He sees his grandpa tending to the mushroom.
00:30:29
Speaker
And very suddenly in something out of like fucking Toonstruck, A weird character comes by with a huge um a huge mallet, a comical looking mallet, and squashes Grandpa, squashes him to the ground and steals the mushroom. I'm not making this up. Does Grandpa? Okay.
00:30:51
Speaker
And the rest of the game is not this cartoony.
00:30:55
Speaker
It is and isn't. It's really hard to describe. But he lives, even though he looks like a pancake, he lives. He lives as a pancake from now or he kind he pops back up? I haven't seen him yet because he's in the dungeon. Okay. Here's where our first, this is our first, ah like, movie. really big like main story puzzle he was sent to the dungeon to be executed because he failed to take care of the mushroom so we are working with princess michelle what a great princess name princess michelle she is trying to help us get our grandpa out of the dungeon so he's not executed okay for failing to take care of the floppy mushroom and that's the first thing you have to do okay
00:31:42
Speaker
Guess what you have to do to do it. get Just guess. Guess how you might go about freeing grandpa. What did Princess Michelle tell us to do that was totally going to work?
00:31:55
Speaker
What did she tell you to do to free grandpa? He's in a prison. Yeah, he's in a dungeon. I mean, find the mushroom. You think? You would think that we would go after the the guy?
00:32:09
Speaker
yeah No, no, my friend. We need to find a disguise to dress up as the king who we look nothing alike to get into the dungeon to free him.
00:32:20
Speaker
She gave me a list of things I need. a fake nose, like a crown. Oh, boy. God. I can't go on. I can't go on talking about it. It's too silly.
00:32:33
Speaker
that
Technical Difficulties with 'Jazz and Faust'
00:32:35
Speaker
God. Wow. And it is trying to be funny. i can tell it is trying to have those, those silly quick witted succeeding. It sounds so, it sounds super funny so far.
00:32:46
Speaker
ah I'll make it even funnier when I do my review, but it's, and I guess it, It's maybe for kids, but that doesn't mean we, just because it's for kids doesn't mean we shovel crap into their mouths, you know? course not. We've had really good adventure games for children by Humongous Entertainment. I would even argue that some of the King's Quest games, I played those as a kid, and especially King's Quest VI, which is super high quality. So I don't know what this was doing. It's...
00:33:14
Speaker
It's so much like the gameplay of Monkey Island, but especially the dialogue trees that it's a little insulting. Yeah, it's I can't wait to. I can't. This is it. This is bringing me back into retro adventure game reviews, I guess. Goodness. Yep.
00:33:32
Speaker
I cannot tell you the look on my face when grandpa got smashed by wooden mallet. And then Gilbert's like, oh my God, got to go help him, but I got to make glue first. So we didn't even go help him right away because we had to make glue. What did he have to make glue for? Oh, the crank. The crank. So I went to the crank and you'll be praised to you'll be pleased to know that the crank is for the elevator in that trailer that you watched. And you said he was just like cranking for like 30 seconds. Oh, so he crak it down he can't get down to grandpa until he fixes the crank. All right. Yeah. I'm i'm following.
00:34:07
Speaker
Yeah. you following this I'm finally. Do you want to play it with me? and Sounds brilliant. Sounds like a really actually good game, in fact. You should play with me and we'll write the best, most funny review on this ever. Okay. yeah I am.
00:34:21
Speaker
Well, I'm also playing what i one of the games I said I would play. Wait, from the list? Yes. No way. Can I guess? Okay. Yeah. Okay. I have like, I think I have like two options here. You have two options.
00:34:34
Speaker
Is it Jazz and Faust? I wish it was Jazz and Faust. I got Jazz and Faust. I installed Jazz and Faust. I started playing Jazz and Faust. Okay, first thing that popped up was a table.
00:34:49
Speaker
And I was like, oh, is this like a loading screen? And nothing was happening. And then I clicked. And then there was some sort of noise. And what I realized was, I was like, hold on.
00:35:04
Speaker
because this I think Jazz is supposed to be sitting on one end of this table and Faust is supposed to sitting on the other. And I think I just chose which one it was. But their character um sprites didn't appear.
00:35:21
Speaker
Oh, no. So like there was no Jazz and Faust. And then i watched the entire opening cut scene. for i don't I don't even know which one, Jazz or Faust.
00:35:34
Speaker
And suddenly it crashed. No, Matt, no. So I just kept fucking around with it. And no, that like I can't. i As of now, I cannot play jazz and Faust. We're going to find a way. Guys, we're going to find a way to play jazz and Faust. So that means, see, here's the the reason I even chose that first is because I edited our last episode And it felt like you were more excited about Jazz and Faust.
00:36:03
Speaker
I was so excited about Jazz and Faust. I think i was at some point in the last episode, I was chanting Jazz and Faust. I have never laughed so hard in editing an episode in my entire life. It was so funny see this unfold in real time. You did get a little more sexual about Dark Earth, though. So I assume you chose Dark Earth.
00:36:24
Speaker
I got sexual about Dark Earth? What was sexy about Dark Earth? and You were like, yeah, Dark Earth. That's weird. I had to cut out so much stuff, you guys. Okay. So Dark Earth is the one that I played. Wait, can ask, did you try Jazz and Faust first before Dark Earth?
00:36:43
Speaker
No. I tried i tried dark Earth first. Okay, damn. I want i wanted my guess to be right. Okay, but
'Dark Earth' and Its Mixed Reviews
00:36:49
Speaker
i go on. But i found I found Dark Earth with a DOS box installer. like yeah It was already like bundled into it. So yeah was just it was super easy. That's what you need. Yeah.
00:37:01
Speaker
I was hoping you found that with Jazz and Faust. because i was I was hoping too. i I looked everywhere. I could not it. If anyone knows where i can put how I can play my beautiful Jazz and Faust. He's desperate. Please let me know. But I played Dark Earth.
00:37:15
Speaker
It is pretty much what we thought it would be. It's like a darker version of King's Quest VIII. You okay start as this guy. i can't even... Arkan, I think his name is. Okay.
00:37:33
Speaker
First, I have to talk about the voice acting because the voice acting is horrible. It is It's like... Not only is it just, like, poorly done, and it's, like, overacted. it's also like It's also, like, acted in a way where it's it seems like everybody is trying to be unappealing. So you got the hero. The hero who's like, I'm going to be the hero and save the princess. And, like, like that kind of thing. yeah Maybe a little deeper because he's like, he's he's a man, so he's going to save the princess. And then...
00:38:09
Speaker
Oh, I like that voice. Do that voice again. You've got some other people. They're like, oh, I don't want you to save the princess. Why are you messing with all my stuff? I don't care if you're trying to save the princess. Get out of my laboratory. Wait a second. You didn't tell me that you're kind of good in voice acting. and and That's crazy. The villains are like, we shall we shall not let you save princess so like not only and then oh my god so then okay so you start the game there's there's this like slight nod towards it happening in real time because there's a there's a girl sleeping at at one point you meet a girl who like there are women doing female voices but there at one point you meet a girl character who is a guy doing a voice like this
00:39:03
Speaker
oh ah So it's it's not even like Bob's Burgers level of amusing. It's not supposed to be funny. It's not supposed to be funny. Oh, no. So so you um you wake up next to this girl, and then depending on how long it takes for you to do this stuff in your room, she'll wake up and she'll talk to you, and you'll be like, you got you gotta sneak out of here. People can't know that you're spending the night with me. And then...
00:39:30
Speaker
um And then you go then you go out to train um and you start your guard duty. And it's like, ooh, this is thrilling. you're just You're waiting by a door for a while, but then somebody breaks in and attacks the Sunseers who you're guarding. And you rush in ah and they poison you and you turn into a monster man.
00:39:57
Speaker
o Okay. So you no longer sound like this. You sound like this. my god And you walk around like you're like your Batman or Wolverine. And you're like, I've got to find a cure for my monster-ness.
00:40:15
Speaker
And then you're stomping around and everyone's like, everyone's like oh, Arkhan, you better not let the guards see you like that or they'll try and kill you. And you're like, I'll take care of them. And then you meet the guards and every single guard is like,
00:40:31
Speaker
Stop! Who goes there? Arkan? is that you? And they don't attack you. They're just like, you better keep walking. Otherwise, if another guard besides me sees you, and then you meet another guard, and they're like, Arkan?
00:40:47
Speaker
It's so good to see you. I thought you had died. Man, it's so smudgy and gray and brown and like so hard to see anything that's happening. Oh, it sucks. It's tank controls. It's some of the worst combat I've ever played in a game.
00:41:06
Speaker
But... Can I ask you this, though? Yeah. Did you have fun? it sounds like you're kind of having fun the way that we have fun with with Quest for... i See, I'm not having fun with the Gilbert Goodmage or what the fuck ever. You got it right.
00:41:21
Speaker
i But like, I love Quest for Glory 5 because i it's it's not a good game and it's got those similar 3D graphics, kind of hard to to navigate. It's tank control. Is it tank controls? It can be tank controls. So are you having fun with this unhinged game?
00:41:39
Speaker
I don't know yet. I think a little bit. I just got, okay. I just I turned into the monster. I've had a few combat sequences. I haven't really solved any puzzles, but right now i just I just got out of the city with my girlfriend and I'm looking for the head of the scratch. I met a man whose legs were tank treads and whose hands were swords.
00:42:13
Speaker
This is way more unhinged than I could ever guess. If anyone knows the right, like Bonebreaker from the Reavers in X-Men comics. um he this Yeah, it's so bizarre. So, okay, so i'm I'm with the scrappers and I'm like, does anybody know how to heal me? And they're like, you've got to talk to. And then they
Artistic Merits of 'The Tragedy at Deer Creek'
00:42:35
Speaker
keep everybody keeps referring me to the leader.
00:42:38
Speaker
I can't remember his name, but everyone keeps referring me to the leader of the scrappers. and but no one will tell me how to, how to see him. Like you ask enough questions and they're like, I've told you all I can.
00:42:52
Speaker
i shouldn't have told you this much. Wait, are you stuck? Not yet. So I, somebody did mention that the dancer at the local like strip club
00:43:08
Speaker
Will help you meet him. Okay. And i went to this I went to the strip club, and it is a character who, she's wearing a gold thong and lots of close-ups of her butt swinging back and forth. and Her butt is swinging?
00:43:24
Speaker
Yeah, because she's dancing around. then And then her on her top half, she's absolutely naked except for oh gold pasties over her nipples. Whoa! because she's just got these giant boobs that are just hanging there.
00:43:41
Speaker
Amazing. um Anyway, I talked to her and she was like, I'll help you find him, but you gotta prove yourself to me first. I need something shiny. And you now I gotta find her a shiny thing.
00:43:57
Speaker
It's come on. It sounds like you're having fun. yeah what so that and That's and that's that's as far as I got. And then um and then I was like, you know what? I would rather play.
00:44:08
Speaker
I'd rather figure out this order of what Order of the Sinking Star looks like. Sure. So I'm going to stop playing Dark Earth and play that for a little bit before have our podcast. That's fair. That's a fair thing. I did play Dark Earth the other day, too. and So I went back to it. I played it twice.
00:44:28
Speaker
Oh, okay. Cool. I mean, it sounds like the seriously it sounds like the type of fun that I have with Quest for Glory 5. It does sound like this game is worse, though. I think I can say that. Yeah. Well, all right. So I'll give you, i'll give you in my third game, can be like a comparison point because it was less fun but much higher quality.
00:44:51
Speaker
is um That game, we've talked about it before, The Tragedy at Deer Creek finally came out. Oh, yes, yes, yes. I played the demo at somewhere. i don't know if I played it at Adventure X. No, I played it on my own. My bad.
00:45:09
Speaker
It
00:45:12
Speaker
Okay, this was true in the demo too, but we didn't talk much about this part of it, but it became way more apparent when I was playing it, playing the full game. So, not first of all, your progress carries over from the demo if you want, but I started over from the beginning.
00:45:27
Speaker
And... and
00:45:31
Speaker
It's a lot like, so for anybody who doesn't, who didn't listen to that episode, you are a woman who gets dropped off in like the middle of nowhere. You're trying to you're like a photo journalist and you're taking pictures of this old mining town called Deer Creek, where some tragedy happened that you don't know anything about. um ah Everybody suddenly abandoned the town one day. Yeah.
00:46:01
Speaker
And the the mystery starts to come in, what, like the second day you start seeing like ghosts in the mirror behind you, that kind of thing. And you notice that like the night, it's it's the next day, but it's still dark outside. Like it's not turning light and your radio stops working and stuff like that. Like, you know, just yeah standard spooky stuff. Yeah.
00:46:27
Speaker
And...
00:46:29
Speaker
and It's first person, you're finding letters and photos and stuff trying to, like, piece together the story, and somewhere in those you find clues to, like, open a safe or um look at a place you wouldn't have thought to look at if... um You know you know those those sorts of puzzles where it's like the third floor board is, and you would never have thought to click on the third floor board. Like you don't, if when your cursor goes over it, it doesn't turn into a hand or whatever. yeah So it's like you would only know this if you read this note.
00:47:04
Speaker
You couldn't like stumble into it. um So that sort of stuff. And the puzzles are all pretty fairly easy. Yeah.
00:47:17
Speaker
But the thing, and the story is interesting. it's it's ah It's a little creepy. Yeah. It's very sad.
00:47:28
Speaker
yeah um It's sadder than you think it's going to be. Like, it takes a turn. oh because I already thought it was going to be pretty sad. Like, what kind of sad? Like...
00:47:44
Speaker
Well, I mean, for me, it's called The Tragedy of Deer Creek and everything is like blue tone and very cool and like isolating. So I thought it was at least on the level of like someone dies or someone died or... Yes. Yeah. so but the game sort of leads you to think that it's going to be... Obviously, yes. I'm not going to...
00:48:10
Speaker
This is not a spoiler to say there's a death tragedy that happened here. But but the circumstances of the tragedy are a little sadder than you think they're going to be. Yeah. Okay. and here is my problem with the tragedy at Deer Creek.
00:48:28
Speaker
The game... It just says no to you at every single turn. And this was true in the demo, too. um You go to this town and like the first entire day, she's like, I just have to take pictures. So you'll find interesting stuff and you'll want to check it out.
00:48:47
Speaker
And she'll be like, I can't touch that right now. I just have to take pictures. Huh, okay. And she's like, okay, and you might remember this from the demo. And you're like, okay, and I guess I'll just go into the next building. So you're just looking at stuff. And and she'll make observations about it and take pictures. and you're like, I want to click on this stuff. And she's like...
00:49:08
Speaker
I can't touch that today. I've got to take pictures. right Right. Right. Right. Fucking. Okay. Whatever. And then even when you start being able to interact with stuff, half the thing, more than half of the things, 80% of the things that you can click on aren't really interactive, interactable.
00:49:25
Speaker
um and
00:49:29
Speaker
Which is, which is, I mean, even if they'd find, found a way to make the cursor. distinguish between that so you know ahead of time but instead you're just clicking on a bunch of stuff and being like okay all right I guess not oh okay I guess not oh okay I guess not and then um a lot of things and then there's a lot of stuff that like you might figure out in your head and she's like I don't need that yet One of those sorts of things. Yeah. Which you see sometimes in point and click games and sometimes it's ah sometimes it's okay and sometimes it's annoying. But where you're like, okay, but I know I'm going to need that at some point. Or like, okay, I think I know what that goes to though.
00:50:10
Speaker
And I could solve that puzzle right now. But because you were bad at at doling out your clues and structuring your puzzles.
00:50:21
Speaker
Yeah. now I'm sitting here like, okay, well, I guess I'll just do something else then. right Um, Which kind of like, yeah, it it it kind of takes away from the freedom of adventure gaming.
00:50:36
Speaker
you know what I mean? Yeah, it doesn't feel like an adventure at all. Right. Because of that. Because you're like, I don't get to make any choices about what I'm doing. and granted, in most adventure games, it's an illusion of choice anyway.
00:50:49
Speaker
Yeah, true. it It makes you think like, oh you could, I'm doing this in the order in which I notice it or the order in which I... I solved it, but really there's one, maybe two orders to which you could do these inventory puzzles. I do think like some of the magic of adventure games though, is the the freedom to explore non-linearly. Like when I, when you boot up King's quest one, right.
00:51:18
Speaker
It's so much freedom that you have to a fault even. i mean that we're talking about old adventure games now, but yeah, I, it's an interesting thing.
00:51:29
Speaker
That idea that a lot of point and click games will allow you to focus on three or four puzzles at the same time at any given time so that you can like that's why so many adventure games will be like here's a list of things you need to collect.
00:51:44
Speaker
Yeah. And now you have sometimes up to like 10 different puzzles you could be working on at any point. So like if you get stuck at one just go try and figure out a different one. Like that's something that's I don't know. This game is really against allowing you to do that. It's just so... It's very tightly structured without um without introducing its elements in a thoughtful way. So you see all the elements up front.
00:52:18
Speaker
And she's like, oh, ah she's like, I'm not going to try to open this safe because I haven't found the code yet. And it's like, okay, fine. But like also...
00:52:29
Speaker
I don't know. Like, it's it's frustratingly restrictive. That's such an interesting thing because like I know in in modern adventure games, we certainly don't want to go back to just going all willy-nilly and having no guidance whatsoever. So there seems to be like a fine balance of like making guiding you, right? Right.
00:52:51
Speaker
And maybe the game we talk about today will be somewhat good at it we can talk about guidance. Yes. like Oh, my God, yes. The yeah the game we're talking about. is is great at guidance. But yeah, this game, bad at guidance, which makes you feel how restrictive it is. And when you add that to the sadness, when you add like the sadness on top of it, the game just feels kind of oppressive the whole time. I okay wouldn't necessarily tell somebody not to play this game. I think there's a lot of really good stuff here.
00:53:25
Speaker
I think just be prepared... I don't know. Just be prepared that it it it could... there's There's a lot to bring you a little kind of down when you're playing the game, right? like There's a lot about the game that might make you frustrated and sad and um it's not the most fun experience. But...
00:53:54
Speaker
It's an interesting story. Yeah. There are some good puzzles. um The voice acting is incredible. Oh, nice. And the writing is...
00:54:10
Speaker
You know, I'd say not amazing, but above average. So there's there's a lot to... and Yeah. And even it's dark and night the whole time, which also adds to the oppression of it. But that doesn't mean that it doesn't look good. It's just... It doesn't look...
00:54:29
Speaker
um it's just It's just... It's just... It's a... It's... Everything is gray and blue and yeah gray and brown. No, I know. at least I can say for Deer Creek, because, it yeah, it is very cool toned. It's that very, like, Twilight movie, you know, gray tones that you can kind of get sick of. But I can at least say. that it's not as fucking ugly as Gilbert Goodbait. That's just assaulting my eyes at this point. It's so brown and orange and clunky. So, like, I get what you're saying. i Like, seeing that much cool tone can probably be a little uninteresting.
00:55:10
Speaker
But at least it's not ugly. Yes, yeah, yes. It isn't it is not ugly. It is not an ugly game. it is just a... Yeah, it is just a bland game. And there are moments in this game that actually, you know, that that I was like, whoa, right? Like, there were some really cool moments in this game. and i i don't So I don't want to, again, this is not an anti-recommendation.
00:55:40
Speaker
Yeah, of course not. It's just this game had a lot This game disappointed me in a lot of ways. I'm sorry to hear that. i was kind of excited for that one.
00:55:53
Speaker
Yeah. But maybe I'll feel maybe i'll feel differently about differently. Maybe you'll play it and you'll be like, this this game rules. And it's about it's about two hours long. And I don't ever... It's really hard to make comments on the price of a game because I it is hard i don't know how difficult it was for them to, I don't know how expensive it was for them to make this game. yeah um I don't know.
00:56:20
Speaker
i don't know what, I know what $20 means to me. Yeah. I don't know what it means to you. Yeah, and and honestly, I've spoken quite in detail about video game pricing and art. And really what it comes down to is I am willing to pay a little bit more for a fully developed piece of art. I kind of like a lot of my friends like to go to the to the theater downtown and watch movies for like 15, 20 bucks.
00:56:48
Speaker
And that's it. That's yeah all you get. You don't get to take it home. You don't get to play it again. i So i think I think sometimes we can get a little a little judgmental about pricing. And I know this especially ah as an artist. um i I know people can get judgmental, but we really have to think about truly what we're getting from this. This is still a piece of art. And if you're willing to pay for like a $20 experience that you only take home memories from,
00:57:17
Speaker
And I think another with another really good comparison is like, did you have a did you go out on a date and get yourself some good food? Was it like a hundred bucks? You're never getting it again. like i think it is worth buying things that were well done and you can hold on to and you can revisit it and really and really look at it. that's That's my opinion. But yes, it is hard. It is hard to price any kind of art and we all have different ways of approaching price.
00:57:45
Speaker
Right. Yeah. So all that being said,
00:57:52
Speaker
um this game is $20. And i got to the end of the two-hour experience
00:58:02
Speaker
um that, again, was a little oppressive and said no to me the entire time. And I
Podcast Ownership Banter
00:58:09
Speaker
thought... I don't know if I should have spent $20 on this.
00:58:13
Speaker
I understand. No, I mean, I feel like that's that's the that's the risk of being a consumer and buying entertainment, right? And that's and that's me. And that's me, right? like that is that So this isn't to say,
00:58:26
Speaker
yeah listener, you might... $20 might not be as big of a deal to you as it is to me. and so and Or a game that you only get two hours of that you consider a b minus game that might be worth that might be an experience worth and you might think of this as an a plus game who knows but that might be worth 20 to you so i i don't want to shot i don't want anyone to i don't want to turn anyone off but i do think considering
00:59:01
Speaker
that this is priced at 20 dollars um I think you should consider it. I should i think that like that should be part of your calculus when you choose whether or not to get this game. Because I did not i got to the end and and felt I probably shouldn't have paid $20 for that.
00:59:21
Speaker
That's fair. Man, I bought ah i bought a Caesar salad for $25 the other day, so I'm like the wrong person. Don't be talking to me about this. I spent $25 on a Caesar salad that had no protein in it. I've spent $25 on Taco Bell multiple times in my life. would you even how what did you what did you eat So not I don't want to tell you any more about games because we have a big game to talk about. I've, I actually, this is, this is a big week for me. I also, there's two other games that I do want to talk about, but I'm going to save them until next week.
01:00:01
Speaker
Okay, good. um Because roses. Yes. I want you to go down to the old gin joint.
01:00:12
Speaker
Pick a pick a record on the old jukebox machine. On the old Victrola. Wait, the you should show it as a Victrola.
01:00:26
Speaker
Yeah, yeah. Okay, go down to the old Jyn Joy. Find a victro the Victrola that they have set up in the corner. probably has a crank on it. I'm just saying. Crank crank it up.
01:00:38
Speaker
Toss one of them vinyls on it. And let's hear the soothing sounds of of royalty-free music. Public domain music. And come back. And, Rose, I want to talk to you about Perfect Tides stationed a Station to Station. Woo-hoo!
01:01:09
Speaker
Hey, everyone. Welcome back to Save Your Game. I'm not a guest. I have been promoted back to host. i don't know if you know, but during that time, I found Hansen and gave him a piece of my mind.
01:01:22
Speaker
He you might not be okay. He stole a piece of your mind. ah and now because he believes he owns a portion of you, which he does, he now owns a small portion of Pushing Up Roses' brain, he's promoted her again.
01:01:39
Speaker
Yeah, we're going to have to we're going to have to get him off our our playlist. that We've been trying. It's very complicated legal stuff. Please somebody send us like court fees. Hi, I'm Matt Aucamp.
01:01:54
Speaker
Hi, Matt Aucamp. um Do you like adventure games, Matt Aucamp? I love them. I love them. I love them. I play them
'Perfect Tides': Mara's College Life and Relationships
01:02:01
Speaker
all the time. i talk about him on a podcast. It's awesome.
01:02:06
Speaker
You should check it out sometime. I should. I should listen to your podcast. Yeah. It's called Save Your Game. That's weird. That's the name of my podcast.
01:02:18
Speaker
No way. Wait a minute. Did Hanson Swanson all, did he tell you that we both own this property? What is happening? I don't know. I don't know. This one doesn't make very much sense. No, it makes no sense. But why did you ask me that?
01:02:37
Speaker
Because we're talking about an incredible adventure game today. ya Like, one that I would say is one of the best written adventure games I've ever played.
01:02:50
Speaker
I would agree with that. Yeah. I feel the same way. Amazing. shall we Should we tell them what it is? bet they're on tinterhooks right now. They've been waiting and they've been waiting and they're like biting at their nails. All right, go ahead. They're just nervous. Reveal it. Reveal it.
01:03:06
Speaker
It's The Adventures of the Blackhawk. now what No, Matt, nope. Oh, God, he played the wrong game. Never seen this happen. No, we we have played, finally, station or sorry Perfect Tides Station to Station, which is Meredith Grand's sequel game to Perfect Tides.
01:03:29
Speaker
Holy shit, y'all. I know. Wowzers. Wowzers. Wow. This game... so Perfect Tides was the story about a young girl, Mara Whitefish, who was growing up on an island outside... An island called the Perfect Tides outside of the big city. um And it was just about her sort of...
01:03:53
Speaker
Trials and tribulations wanting to be, coming into adulthood, learning about men, learning about, well, I guess boys, learning about her own romance. Yeah, she's 15 in Perfect Hides, and it's the late 90s era, so she's constantly, like, on AIM, AOL buddy list. She's got a love interest on there. She's got an internet boyfriend, and then she meets her first real boy, and, like...
01:04:20
Speaker
Yeah, really, really smart, cool. Really funny, yeah. Point and click pixel art game. Yeah. This is the sequel to it, and Mara is now 18. Yeah.
01:04:34
Speaker
Going on 19. Which is fantastic, because we can kind of dive into seeing her do more adult things. Drugs. Legally. Drugs, sex, drink. Drugs, sex, yeah. I mean, jet yeah, yeah, absolutely. Which I guess...
01:04:50
Speaker
yeah like yeah yeah I was doing those things at at least 18 or 19. Not drugs. I never do drugs. but i'd kind of stopped drugs by I'd kind of stop drugs by
01:05:03
Speaker
my anxiety disorder. But I was drinking and boning at 19. I was doing both those things at 15. Oh, I was boning all over the fucking place. I may not have had many vices, but was... But boning was certainly of them. Boning was one of them, yeah.
01:05:20
Speaker
Yeah. So Mara. Yeah, it's interesting because it it's about it's a story about her her, I guess, freshman into sophomore year of college. Yeah. and it's about I would say this game is about the ways that she
01:05:48
Speaker
distracts herself from her goals because of a lack of self-esteem yeah i think i think meredith grand has successfully written one of the most neurotic paranoid fictional characters ever this character is a mess because she's so believably those things it's like she all her anxieties and her her neuroses you're like oh yeah me too yeah Yeah. Very cringe. I don't think I was ever quite on that level of cringe, but you know, when you're doing, when you're writing a story, when you're writing media, there is going to be a level of exaggeration there. And not not that it's not true to to Meredith's writing or even her experience, but you do have to put it out there a little bit. So it, you know, so it lands with people. So I don't think I was ever quite as cringe as this fictional character, but yes, I absolutely relate to the things that she's feeling and, The self-doubt that she has about her work and her writing and her her artistic merit, you know, during college and wanting so badly to connect with a dude and you're just always choosing the wrong dude.
01:06:56
Speaker
So, yeah, and I mean, and I think like. That she's choosing the wrong dudes are, is, is like, I think that's significant for more than just like she has bad dudes around her. I think that's significant in the way of like every guy she chooses in this game, I think says something about where she is in her life. And, um the way that she sort of uses men and relationships and love as self-torture and self-soothing and um a way to look for her self-worth when she can't find it in... When she's when she's um desperately lacking the ability to find it in her work and herself.
01:07:43
Speaker
um It's actually really kind of sad because i i think i've taught I've discussed this a little bit, but in my early days, when I was 15, I had met an older guy. He was 20.
01:07:55
Speaker
And that was my first... It's kind of icky to call him a boyfriend, right? Because this is kind of a groomer kind of sit abusive situation. But in this game, Mara meets somebody before they follow her college.
01:08:08
Speaker
ah her college journey. um In fact, by the time we were in this game, she had been with him for like 20 months is what they said. And she was like 16 when they met and he was like 22 or like that. guess he would have been 21.
01:08:23
Speaker
Maybe 21, but 21 22. Yeah. it's It's not good. That's that's definitely not a good a good age gap to be a minor in that situation. But the first part of that game is really her navigating a bad a toxic relationship. And it it felt so real. The way it was written felt so real. And especially because it's it's also portraying a long distance relationship, which that that felt very similar to mine.
01:08:53
Speaker
um Yeah, it's a sort of it's one of those relationships where, and obviously because of the age difference, but they are two people in two wildly different places in their life. Yes. And she has...
01:09:10
Speaker
you know, the world of possibility and potential opening up in front of her. Yes. And that is threatening to him. So every time she starts to discover something new, he tries to hold her back from it, right? Right. Out of jealousy and insecurity and control too. Yeah. Because he doesn't, because he's, he's, he is not going anywhere, right? Clearly the way that all these relationships, Mara is using them to,
01:09:39
Speaker
hold herself back i i think we can think the same thing about her first boyfriend in this game adam is adam is intentionally using dating a younger girl um um making his life about her and making his and tying his self-worth to her obsession with him. um Because she talks about, she was like i like, at one point she's yelling at herself because she does that a lot in this game. She's yelling at herself about, and it's also funny, the creator, I don't know if it's supposed to be the creator of the game, Meredith Grand's voice, or just an omniscient narrator of what it is.
01:10:17
Speaker
i don't It's not an omniscient narrator because it has a perspective. It has a point i think it's Meredith. I read it as Meredith as though we're almost reflecting on a memory or what's happening in this this ah this moment, you know? But she, yeah, Mara and the narrator get in arguments. It's very, very well done. um And we'll talk about the mechanics of this game in a minute. But now that we're in this subject. so Yeah.
01:10:42
Speaker
The way that, like, at one point she's yelling at herself in her head, not her versus the narrator, but her versus herself about how, like, she's like, you
01:10:54
Speaker
um You loved him. you were obsessed with him. You chased him. he he but it was Something like he... Did he turn her down or did he just ignore her? And she found his number and, like... So she was, like... So she talks about this.
01:11:12
Speaker
So ah clearly he was gaining some sort of um self.
01:11:22
Speaker
ah So some sense of self-worth from her obsession with him early on. that is another way that a person that he's doing exactly what Mara is doing, right? He's instead of moving forward with his life and growing and learning and um pursuing the things that he's pursuing he he needs to or wants to pursue in his life he's using this relationship with a younger girl as a way to
01:11:55
Speaker
content himself sure with his lack of success or his lack of um but his lack of forward momentum the same way that she is
01:12:09
Speaker
stunting her forward momentum because he'll say something like, I don't like you. i don't like it when you're stoned. Right. And so she'll be like, I can't smoke anymore.
01:12:20
Speaker
Right. Or she'll be like, oh, I met a guy who is a writer like me. And she'll be like, oh, he's just trying to sleep with you. Yeah, he just wants to fuck you. Yeah. And then he's she's like, oh, maybe he's right. Maybe I shouldn't. Maybe if i'm I have a boyfriend, I shouldn't be hanging out with these guys. yeah And like...
01:12:38
Speaker
Again, it's like she's doing this while she's experiencing self-doubt about all these things. So he is a good excuse for her to not do those things.
01:12:50
Speaker
And he is kind like, this is how manipulation works, right? Like he's getting away with it. So he's probably consistently convincing himself he's not being manipulative. He's being, he's, he, as he says many many times in this game, like he wants the best for her.
01:13:08
Speaker
Right. He doesn't. He wants what's best for him. He wants what's best for his ego. He thinks of her as a prop. Yeah. But he thinks he's trying to support her.
01:13:20
Speaker
And it's so clear to us. Like this is not support. This is. Yeah. Codependence. And this is a very important, like really important part beginning of this game because, you know, the first game kind of focuses on Mara's self-doubt and she gets, again, i think cringy is a good word for it. Even though I don't, you know, her feelings are valid. They're just over the top and just dramatic and and self-sabotaging. And I was really a delighted that the story was able to to help Mara to make her grow a little bit and actually end that relationship, actually end which I don't think I had the strength to do in in my similar relationship to that. So it was nice to see that as part of the character development, as part of the character growth, that she was actually, she had grown. She really had grown. She is in college now. Things do get better.
01:14:17
Speaker
after adolescence and she's learning how to cope and how to do these things while still going to college and writing papers and stuff like that we we will have to talk about the mechanics of that breakup i love the mechanic brilliant so let's talk about the mechanics of this game a little bit um it's a point and click game it's not really puzzles No, I want to say this.
01:14:42
Speaker
Anything that was frustrating about Perfect Tides has been ah fixed. yeah there's gone Yes, this game is not frustrating. There's not a weird pixel hunt for a screwdriver that if you don't get it, you you don't get the right ending. um This game was very smooth. It was not scary or frustrating to play right.
01:15:07
Speaker
And the failure in this game is part of it. So you are living out a series of days. i think um Do we want to say how many days? Maybe that's too much of a spoiler.
01:15:18
Speaker
People don't want to know the endings coming up. but You're living out a year in Mara's life. um And you you're in school, so you have to be writing papers and you're a writer. So you're also writing creative things for things like somebody asks you to do a reading or somebody asks you to do a guest blog post or somebody like a paper for your, tea for your like composition, composition one class, you know? Yes. Yes. yeah um And you are also finding, you also have a set of topics in your head that you're interested in and
01:15:56
Speaker
Perfect Tides finds this brilliant way of tackling that where like when you're when you're that age, maybe when you're any age, but especially that age, you're still trying to figure out what is what you care about and how to think about things.
01:16:18
Speaker
So every book you read... every and And a lot of like conversations you have will introduce new topics into your life. Yeah. And then those topics will level up.
01:16:29
Speaker
Right. So you might have a conversation with somebody who is kind of experienced at sex or the opposite and it makes you think about sex more deeply. Yeah. And then your sex topic skill. Yeah, you get that right. Not your skill at sex, but your – Right, correct. The knowledge, knowledge of sex goes up. Of the topic sex goes up, yeah. And then you can take those knowledges and apply it.
01:16:55
Speaker
towards your writing. So if you have like zero knowledge in movies and you need to write a paper for your teacher, maybe don't choose movies as the subject. Maybe choose something you have a couple points in as your subject so you can write you know a decent paper. And you can fail.
01:17:12
Speaker
you can get a good grade or you can get a bad grade or fail or not or or do well at these writing tasks. but that does you're not going to lose the game that way it is all part of the experience and you are not going to be able to read every book and level up every topic you are going to miss things and that's part of that's part of that experience because every day you can read one book yeah and every day you can write one paper yeah um And you can't do more than that. And sometimes in order to do that, like you have to make hard choices. Like, am I going to write today or am I going to go hang out with my friends? And sometimes hanging out with your friends will level up your skills. So if you, if you instead, you don't, you choose not to write this today, you're going to go hang out with Daniel, your best friend.
01:18:00
Speaker
yeah And then you'll try and write the paper before class tomorrow. Yeah. You might get a better grade because you might learn something while hanging out with Daniel that you're not, Or you might not.
01:18:11
Speaker
Or you might not at all. Yeah. You might get a shitty grade because you may you might not even – because of what you do with Daniel, you might not have time to write the paper and then you fail. Yeah, exactly. you Or like you can chance like spending time on the internet and you might find something useful or you might find some troll that gives you no – waste your time and you've done nothing.
01:18:32
Speaker
Yeah. There's a couple points in this game where your knowledge goes down. There's one point that it's really frustrated by um because I was putting a lot of effort into learning about a specific topic.
01:18:45
Speaker
And then she has such a bad experience with it. And this is such like a thing where it's like, She has a bad experience with the dude and you're playing the game and you're like, there's nothing wrong with this guy. It's basically just like, she doesn't like him. and every i would love to talk about that arc further. Everything that she does with that guy annoys her.
01:19:07
Speaker
Yeah. But he's just like guy who's trying to be nice, it seems. And he is a little annoying, but not nearly as annoying the player. don't think he at all. But I want to talk about these things because it is so... Meredith is very good at writing unpretentious but very relatable things. She writes about relatable things that it doesn't feel like she is...
01:19:35
Speaker
just giving you a sob story. These are just very, yeah these these are things that a lot of us have experienced in college. And I think i i really, i really connected with it. Cause I connected with the first one. um a lot of my experiences aligned with Mara's. This one I aligned with a lot too. It's kind of like she is, she's now that she is more independent and she's in college, she's experiencing dating different types of men. She's also kind of discovering feminism.
01:20:04
Speaker
Through different means. There's there's actually a really interesting and smart conversation she has with her childhood friend Lily. She comes back. They are still friends. They're not at the same college, but they do keep in touch. And they do hang out.
01:20:18
Speaker
Yeah, it's so cool. Some characters you do see again. And Lily and her friends on a night out were talking about rom-coms. And Mara was being cool girl. She was being cool pick me girl. And I think for women like me and Meredith, who maybe liked other types of interests, like video games and things that ultimately put us around with dudes, we have an era of becoming a pick me girl.
01:20:45
Speaker
shoot I'm better than these other girls. Cause I don't like, I don't like chick flicks. I don't like chick flicks. I don't like rom-coms. Don't you think that they're just, and I think at one point but one of the characters is like,
01:20:58
Speaker
I'm like – I'm glad we're having this conversation. This is a good conversation. And like, sarcastically, it's like, this is a really good conversation. I'm glad we're having it. yeah like She also says, did ah did a man tell you that?
01:21:12
Speaker
That they were chick flicks? I'm like, absolutely. That's absolutely what this is. And it's it's just interesting to relive, kind of or reflect on the experience of finding feminism and and finding out who you are as a woman in college and navigating these relationships. And I think the relationships are,
01:21:31
Speaker
really greatly told. I mean, that that's pretty much the story of these games is how Mara navigates love and yeah and her... that's That's what I truly got out of it. um See, I think... So this game is told in a series of relationships, right? It is. I agree with you there, but I think each relationship to me...
01:21:59
Speaker
kind of isn't about the relationship it's kind of about where Mara is in her head so yeah when so like I agree oh I agree with you I'm just saying that to me that is part of the relationship story arc that is unfolding it you get a glimpse of Mara is and how she how she deals with things or how she copes i yeah Yeah, and I don't disagree with that. I just i think i think the distinguish the distinction I'm making is when a relationship is going well or going south or ending or starting, I'm generally not thinking about how these two people interact, like like what their dynamic is between each other. Like, why would this person like this
01:22:52
Speaker
thing about like do they are they compatible in this way I'm generally thinking about why is Mara doing this right is this like is she she's she she's a person who and she and I think admits that it's a a point in the game like she is jumping from relationship to relationship specifically to to like give her a goal that isn't her real goal Yeah.
01:23:21
Speaker
And also, the and I think she said, too, that the rush of adrenaline you get from a new, you know, trusting relationship, but in and in at least one of these relationships, it faded.
01:23:34
Speaker
And she didn't want it to fade. and he and the guy didn't want it to fade. But it's such a good example of like these kind of early college relationships and who we are as people. like ah you You have to be mature enough to kind of handle another person with care and be responsible for another person. yeah And I think Mara is learning what that looks like, what it it what it is to be there for another person, for them to be there for you. Yeah, right. And you deserve it in return, right? Yeah, absolutely. Yeah.
01:24:07
Speaker
Yeah, and the the she goes through like three relationships yeah three relationship arcs in this ah game, both all at different points. um And I think the third one left me the most sad because for me, this was such a story of of a young woman finding out kind of what she wants and who she is, but also realizing what is healthy in a relationship. Like, what do I want out of this? Oh, my God. The third one is I think the second one left me the most sad. But the third one is definitely her being like she says. so Oh, man. All right.
01:24:44
Speaker
Not to jump to. But she she says something. She says what she wants. Yeah. And then immediately it changes. And then he's like. And then when he is like.
01:24:57
Speaker
Hey. I thought it was this. And it is exactly what she was saying before. Yeah. yeah And she's like, what? like that i Yeah, for sure.
01:25:10
Speaker
It's so... It's very real. It is very real because what we say and what we feel are two different things. Yes. yeah It's very real and st speaks a lot about what it is to be that age and what where Mara is
Cultural References and World-building Tactics
01:25:23
Speaker
at. and like I think it's like it's a very poignant situation, but it's the second one that broke my heart the most because there's this... Yeah. All right. Yeah, it's tough. It is tough.
01:25:34
Speaker
If we're going to talk about the relationships, which I think we want to, that'll have to be in a spoiler section, I think, right? Probably, yeah. Because I think we'll want to at least touch on our feelings about each individual relationship. Each character, sure. um But what are some cool moments? So before we get there, before we cut to spoilers, what are some cool moments in the game?
01:25:56
Speaker
I got to point out something so funny. Yeah. um That ah seriously cracked up. It's probably not what you're thinking. But there is a Homestar Runner parody in this game that you can find on the internet.
01:26:10
Speaker
Oh, yeah. I didn't see this, but I read about it. I was so delighted. You don't understand how realistic that even is for like in that time period, wanting an update, like a strong bad email or something. And it's silly. And it's like it just brings you back to this moment in time, even though that she's not that's it's obviously a parody. That's she's not showing Homestar Runner. She's showing something insane.
01:26:36
Speaker
um i thought it was so funny and so clever. To just as like ah just as like a world development. You know what I mean? Just for... this whole world that she's in wanting it to be that early 2000s, late 90s thing. And I'm like, yep, that was me. That was definitely me looking for a strong, bad email. That's amazing. I love it.
01:27:00
Speaker
That was more of a ah quick moment because you can look that up on the internet, but I assume you're going to bring up the Bohemian Rhapsody karaoke. Oh my God. There is a, well, that, that to me is when the game,
01:27:15
Speaker
leveled up into something like it was like this is good and then that moment happened and it was like holy shit this game is just on another level so it is on another level yes it is there's a moment where
01:27:35
Speaker
there's a karaoke scene in this in this game where the game asks you to put on like to skate like they can't put a copyrighted song in the game so they ask you to put the song on like bo your life and then click a button when it gets to a certain moment yeah and then the entire this it syncs up yeah and It's so funny. It's so well done. And then the scene fades out of the karaoke back into like the character's lives.
01:28:18
Speaker
And this song is still the soundtrack for like another 30 seconds or so. Yeah. And it's so, so fucking smart and so funny and so brilliant. I i can't.
01:28:31
Speaker
ah If you ah i can you actually turn off your sound, the lip sync, you can tell what when they're saying certain lyrics. Oh, man. That's it brilliant. Yeah. yeah that Yes.
01:28:43
Speaker
Yeah. there's it it's there's it There's a mosh pit sequence where you you you basically play that a rhythm game. and at some points, it's too hard to possibly play. and like yes now Oh, man. What what else? there's ah There's a sequence that's like a very sarcastic version of like the Barbie beauty ah like makeup beauty games that were so popular in the early 2000s. know those games. I i played them. ah I don't know what part you're talking about, though, in the game. Yeah.
01:29:24
Speaker
It is the part where she's getting ready for a date when she's been through some real depression. And she's getting ready. Yeah. and you yeah I remember. Yes. I remember. um Yeah. what
01:29:38
Speaker
You can also, I mean, there's also like, there's so many cool things in this game. you can You can read books and then focus on certain topics. And then you can trade books with your friends. And then they will talk to you about them. Yeah.
01:29:54
Speaker
I can't... We're going to have to get into spoilers pretty soon. That's fine. Oh, so let's talk about that breakup first, though. um Yeah. The breakup scene is really interesting because he will be in the entire time trying to talk you out of the breakup.
01:30:08
Speaker
The first one, you mean? Yes. With Adam? Yes. Yeah. and apparently you can fail. i didn't. Really? I didn't know that. um But I heard somewhere that you can fail. Yeah.
01:30:24
Speaker
I should just say ah the the the podcast Post Games did a the earliest the ah earliest game of the year wrap up of 2026. And just because there's so many games yeah and a bunch of people.
01:30:40
Speaker
And he added just like a bunch of guests on from the world of gaming and the world of comedy and the world of writing and the world of the end. Anyway, um a lot of people said Perfect Tide. So I got a couple people's. I try to avoid...
01:30:54
Speaker
reviews of games we will be reviewing on here until after we talk about them. But I got a lot of people's like two minute wrap up reviews of it. um And in in a couple and so I learned a couple things and one of them is that you can fail this breakup. You have a health meter.
01:31:14
Speaker
I noticed that I just thought it that was more there for aesthetic. I didn't realize that I could fail this. Because it tells you a bit more about the story than you're getting out loud when the health goes down or up um it tells you like what things mara finds empowering what she finds deflating m really
01:31:42
Speaker
really smart it's just so it's just so smart um And it reminds me of conversations I had in the at those ages, in my teens and early 20s, on both sides, right?
01:31:56
Speaker
Trying to break up with somebody and kind of failing because they are, like, making arguments against why you should. Or yeah being the other guy, the person, the the the guy being the Adam in the situation, where, like, I don't want to break up.
01:32:09
Speaker
Yeah. And I think that we're going to be a good couple. So if I can just argue each point, maybe... ah
01:32:20
Speaker
she won't break up with me and then we'll fix everything. yeah um Really, it really spoke to a part of my soul that I haven't had to look at for a long time, which is what Meredith does. And that's so, that's just a big part of her writing is, yeah is pulling these things out of our past. These, her ability to,
01:32:49
Speaker
remember her past and the details that we so easily choose to that we either choose to look away from or so easily forget yeah yeah meredith is very good at writing characters that are both good and bad yes um because that's so that's realistic um especially in relationships though and i Especially as you get older and you reflect on your past relationships and you think maybe i was the problem or they were the problem. There's no such thing as you were perfect through every relationship you've ever had. you are You were the toxic one at some point in your life. You are the enemy of someone or someone's in your life. People have left your life. You have left their lives. And Meredith is not afraid to write about that, even if it reflects upon her as the narrator, because I found this game very personal. I very much believe that that Meredith felt this way Mara or had these these feelings or neuroses or paranoid thoughts. And she's not afraid to put that out there because that's life.
01:34:00
Speaker
Good and bad. That's what this is, right? And yeah, she's it's she's very good at writing that realistically without um without making you absolutely hate or love the characters. Does that make sense?
01:34:17
Speaker
Yes. i Yes. the Yes, 100%. And, you know, Mara, I should also say... You are right. Your observations of Mara are right. But she's also very funny and very smart and very charming. Oh, yeah. Like everyone, right? Yeah. If you're a person who is listening to this and hasn't played Perfect Tides 1 and is not sure if you're going to play Perfect Tides 2, I just want to be clear.
01:34:40
Speaker
Mara is not just annoying. as a No, she's and she's not a villain or a bad character. And I think that's where her i think that's where Meredith's writing just comes across so brilliant. is Because that's so many of us, right? So many of us are well-intentioned and funny and good. And then sometimes we have toxic elements to who we are. Yes, yeah. And she's very good at at at putting that out there and being vulnerable.
01:35:06
Speaker
And some people's toxic elements bring out ah ours, right? Yeah. And sometimes people, yeah, I mean, a man, it she captures the whole sort of spectrum of like, sometimes people hurt you and they don't mean to. And it's not their fault. Sometimes people hurt you and they don't mean to. And it is their fault. Sometimes people hurt you or sometimes you hurt other people because you were careless. Sometimes you hurt other people because It's a circumstance that couldn't have been avoided. It is just yeah who you
Spoiler Section: Character Dynamics
01:35:37
Speaker
two are. um
01:35:40
Speaker
Fuck, man. I am ready to go to spoilers if you are. Okay, let's let's do it Let's go to spoilers.
01:36:02
Speaker
Okay, we played music. We are now going to talk some spoilers. so we did talk quite a bit about Adam and how that was ultimately a very toxic relationship with with a bad dynamic, a bad power dynamic.
01:36:15
Speaker
And what I think is... Just two very vulnerable, very weak people, but Adam should definitely have, and like, it's one of those situations. Adam owed Mara a lot more self-reflection and responsibility than he gave her, and he could have ended up really damaging her.
01:36:35
Speaker
Absolutely. But in this story, it led to her a lot of growth for her, but he could have ended up really doing a lot of harm. And I mean, that is why you have to I'm not ah I'm not anti age gap relationships, but that's why people have to be very, very careful yeah with fucking age gap relationships like.
01:36:57
Speaker
these things should be scrutinized within an inch of their life. Especially when a minor is involved. Well, that's, of course. I was 15 when I met my 20 year old boyfriend. And it's it's just, I think Meredith understands this in her writing. She writes the characters like they believe that they're more mature than they are, that they can handle this, that I deserve this older guy, even though the power balance is completely off. I i did not take away growth from my relationship. I took away...
01:37:29
Speaker
maybe the most damage I ever had yeah in in my life. And I, it's kind of the catalyst to my BDD, I would say. So, but, but you can't really do that in a game like this. There needs to be, we can't just end it there, right? We got to have some growth.
01:37:44
Speaker
And so I think what's interesting is she starts to like slash fall in love with her best friend, Daniel. Yeah. Who is a good guy. But what I think is really interesting, ah really, really interesting about these arcs is that it's not the best relationship. It's just a better relationship than what she had. She could recognize that some of these things are healthier, but it's still not it's it's still not a great relationship. It's still not really compatible. They were both coming off of breakups.
01:38:18
Speaker
Yeah. and both of them needed something and each other were there. And I think there was a little more to it, right? Like, I think there were some feelings there, but I don't think the feelings were as real as either of them thought they were.
01:38:33
Speaker
Yeah. And so as it came down to it, when they were when they were out having fun together, they loved they they loved each other, right? Mm-hmm.
01:38:45
Speaker
They liked to sing together and do drugs together and see bands together and go to parties together. But when it came to things that required intimacy, like conversations or sex,
01:38:59
Speaker
things where they needed to listen to each other and communicate. Yeah. It was awful. and i And I feel like a lot of that... a lot of that was a little bit more on Daniel than Mara. Not that Mara was the best communicator. She's, she's not, she's young. They're both young, but it it was kind of, it really spoke to me as like, Oh yeah, I've been there. I've been with, with men who are pretty good guys that aren't listening, that they're, they're not taking my heart into consideration. they don't want to talk about how sex could be better. That was such a sad moment. That was a rough moment. That's rough. He was like, well, can't we just do And she was like yeah just like, well, wait, like the way we've been doing it.
01:39:47
Speaker
And clearly it's like his insecurity, right? Like he is like, I thought I was good at sex. It feels like she's telling me I'm bad at sex. And she's not. She's like, here's how I need it done to feel good. and he's like unwilling to unwilling yeah look at that.
01:40:03
Speaker
or and in the other instance, which really upset me like so greatly. And I went over and I actually replayed it so I could get a good grasp of what happened. There's a moment where Mara and Daniel have to go back to their school because Mara agreed to give a talk. She's in college now, and she's going to give a talk to some some high school students that are going to ask her questions about her experience in college. And Daniel agrees to go with her. And he also agrees to watch her talk.
01:40:33
Speaker
he agrees to this he wants to be there for her i'm only here for mara and as they're going to the school um they stop into a store and daniel meets up with a friend of his and they start chit-chatting and the dialogue again i replayed it to to make sure what i was reading and the dialogue was did you try to be more assertive the second time because i was yes yes i was i was assert so what happened because i was passive Nope. I was very assertive. I said, hey, I'll see you. Cool. You're going to be there, right? Yes, I'm going to be there. Cool. I'll see you in a few minutes.
01:41:06
Speaker
Yes, I will. so I will be there in a few minutes. That is what he said. And then that changed at the end. So he doesn't show up to her talk. She's very upset.
01:41:17
Speaker
But he's giving these, oh, it didn't matter anyway. And unfortunately, you know, he had a good reason as to why he didn't want to go back. Unfortunately, that wasn't communicated. He committed to something that meant a lot to Mara.
01:41:33
Speaker
And didn't didn't follow through. And I empathize with both sides. It's just but but you didn't say that. And now you're gaslighting me like it's such a bad and Daniel's not a bad character. Yeah, inexperienced. And I think that's what this this whole moment is trying to portray is that you do have to be careful when you have a responsibility to someone else now.
01:41:56
Speaker
And they're too young and too inexperienced. And even though this is a better relationship than Adam, it's not it's not good. It's still not good. It's not communicative.
01:42:07
Speaker
It's not good. Right. Yeah. I think that this is the one that felt so tragic to me. because So Adam, to me, was like about – like it was – Something he was holding her back from her life. He was trying to stay in the stand in the way of her progress.
01:42:28
Speaker
um He wanted her to just like come live with him and be with him and make her entire life about her relationship with him. Imagine how boring that would be. Seriously.
01:42:39
Speaker
yeah But sometimes when you're that young, you feel that. You feel like, oh, if if my relationship is right, then my whole life is fine and I don't have to worry about anything else. um And and so like, you put so much effort into just being, like, like trying to... i There's no other word for it. Trap the other person. Yeah. Yeah, it was trapping. Yeah. um And...
01:43:09
Speaker
With Daniel, again, like, they had, they were both too immature and too young and too dumb aboutun about this about communication specifically to figure out that, like, that's not, they didn't want to do that work or they yeah they couldn't do that work. And so Mara wanted the things from Daniel that she had with Adam, yeah which is like,
01:43:37
Speaker
This sort of unconditional dedication.
College Dynamics and Relationship Growth
01:43:42
Speaker
and they hadn't built that together at all because yeah Daniel couldn't communicate at all.
01:43:53
Speaker
No, not at all. And to the point where, yeah like I said, i had to reread the dialogue to make sure what what Meredith was actually writing. um During their confrontation, he has the gall. As you can see, I'm very upset at men in general. I very much relate to this. He says, i told you I was going to stay back and you said it was okay. That's not, that wasn't my dialogue, my man.
01:44:17
Speaker
That was not what happened. And I think that's so smart writing, you know? That was very close to the dialogue that I, cause I said the thing like, yeah, it's fine if you stay Yeah, that's not what I said. And she said, I'll see you there. Like he still was committing things.
01:44:33
Speaker
i What I read into it was he was still committing to come to the read to her talk. And his response was, I'll see you in a few minutes. Yes. And then his later response was, you said it didn't matter and I said I was going to stay back. What? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. It's like that's not what – so in mine, i my my response in my head was that's not what you meant and you know it. And you know what That's not what we meant. But in but then – In yours, he didn't even say it.
01:45:03
Speaker
Right. he's just He's just either misremembering or lying. Yeah. um He's remembering it the way he wanted it to be so that he didn't get in trouble. Yeah. um So in between, there is one relationship in between Adam and Daniel, which is Theo.
01:45:22
Speaker
Interesting thing that I think is so common in college. seemed so normal and so fine. And she just was annoyed by everything he did and like completely disgusted by him. no but You want to know why? I'm going to tell you something. going to be very vulnerable here.
01:45:40
Speaker
There was a time when I was younger when a guy really, really liked me and it was very obvious that he did, but I was so nervous. i was so scared by it that I just made fun of him. I was mean to him. said, I'm a minor. Don't come for me here. I did not do this in my adulthood. i was a minor. But like, it's just that thing of where this person is too accessible. There's got to be something wrong here. They're too nice. This is disgusting. Like, I i can't can't deal with such a nice guy. And I think everyone who's ever been, I think this is less of a college thing and more of even a middle school thing. There's always this like one person that everyone thinks is so weird.
01:46:22
Speaker
And they pick on him and there's nothing wrong with that. Nothing. So it's so man, that i've just brought back some memories to me of just being in school. You know, I couldn't tell if something wasn't translating or if this was the point we were supposed to, at the point as the players say, there's nothing. I'm so glad you had the same feeling. Cause as was like, i was like, am I going to talk to Steve?
01:46:48
Speaker
yeah Roses and she's going to be Whoops Am I going to talk to roses and she's going to be like this guy, this guy fucking sucked. And going to be like, and I'm going to have to go back and reread and be like, where was he Where did he suck? I cal i like i like that guy. i like that. That would be my love interest, man. Like I like that character, but it's, it's just one of those things that I think happens a lot in many people's childhoods. People get an idea, like a collection of people that,
01:47:18
Speaker
Because Mara's not the only one annoyed at this this person. Other people in, like, her peers are like, oh, yeah, that guy's really weird and, like, really out there. It's like, how? He's being so normal. I know. But but i'm I'm telling you, man, I feel like that's everyone's experience growing up at some point is that we've all decided collectively that, like, someone's really weird. This guy is weird, yeah. But they're not. And they're fine. And what's wrong with us? Why are we doing this? So...
01:47:47
Speaker
Because of him, you give up anarchy.
Rebellion and Personal Growth Themes
01:47:50
Speaker
Like, and I put so much work into the anarchy thing. Like, I went to the communist meetup. and Oh, did you? I didn't read the book in time, so I missed it. But, yeah.
01:47:59
Speaker
I read the book. i The first thing we read, the first thing we see is the ah ah the essential Kropotkin. Kropotkin? don't know how you um pronounce it. But, and like...
01:48:13
Speaker
That's like the first book we come across and then it crumbles in our hands and then crumbles her then we have like a porn magazine or something. no like ah Yeah, it's called Rot, I think. Yeah. um I think it's supposed to be like Maxim more than porn. But yeah, we just kept reading the Anarchy books.
01:48:33
Speaker
um I used Anarchy to get out of shelving the books in the library. hu What did you use? What did I use to get out of it? Yes, that's what I used. Okay, maybe you have to. Because I really like that part. You're trying to like convince your teacher that you don't need to sort the books. She gets thismo she like crosses her arms and she's like, well, I don't think we have to sort them. Yeah, I used Anarchy to get out of it. It was very funny.
01:49:03
Speaker
Did you let the... Okay, some so I'm going to ask you some spoilery questions. So did you let the TV... Did you get the TV? I did. Did you let it fall? I did not. Okay. I want to go back and see what happens if you select let it fall. Does she actually?
01:49:19
Speaker
I just couldn't like let her do it. i just couldn't do it. I'm just like, if this were me, I'd be so upset by letting a TV fall. So I i you know i definitely got her to do it. felt the same way. i felt the same way. um And it didn't seem to have the the the narrator acted like there was going to be consequences to not letting the TV fall, but I couldn't find any.
01:49:41
Speaker
ill have to yeah she said something about it like being tiring you out and you're not able to do other things but like i think i still read and wrote that day so okay um but yeah i don't know um what was what was the next question i was gonna ask you um oh were you able to pop any of the balloons ho At the carnival?
01:50:09
Speaker
at the At the ocean? but No. Okay. All right. All right. I wasn't sure if that was the joke or if like there was a skill there that I didn't i I think after doing it, I think it might be the joke because, man, i like went all over the place. I tried. No, I don't think there's any- was funny. it was It was a funny joke, but like then there's a there's a game there's an achievement for a game called Worms that I never found.
01:50:34
Speaker
worms yeah I don't know what that is maybe it could be at the carnival um I didn't find I didn't find that uh okay what was my next choice question you succeeded at breaking up with the guy yes yeah um I think you have to get the lip piercing right I think you have to. Okay. Well, I mean, I'm not sure, but that is what happened to me, which again, so fucking relatable. Well done.
01:51:08
Speaker
um
01:51:12
Speaker
I can't remember... i have ah I have a choice question. Yeah, please. ah You have this kind of little date, not date, but this outing with your friends and Daniel, your boyfriend, you and it's in this kind of foresty area. You're invited by these kind of important writers that you meet that you've been kind of um you know schmoozing with.
01:51:33
Speaker
And it's it's very flattering. So you all go and meet up with them. There's a water hole that you can all like dive and swim in. Did you choose to talk to Daniel or Rosetta? Rosetta.
01:51:44
Speaker
i Yeah, I did too. actually did both. I did both to see what would happen. What happens when you talk to Daniel? you I don't think you get the – if you talk to Rosetta, you get more experience in and more knowledge in sex. Yeah. And you don't if you do it with Daniel. Okay. All right. yeah um So, all right.
01:52:03
Speaker
So, third relationship. Yeah. She breaks up with Daniel. She falls into a deep depression. And then one of the writers she's kind of been flirting with the whole game, older guy, invites her out.
01:52:18
Speaker
And she's like, she's talking to herself kind of like, this isn't a guy that you can date. Right. But maybe it would feel good to just be wanted. He's super hot.
01:52:29
Speaker
Whatever. Yeah. That's such a trap. Why do we do this? Dude, no. You're gonna fall in love with him. Why do we do this? Such a trap. Yeah, and then they bone and she immediately falls in love with him. And he's like, what? What is... This is not what this was about. And she's heartbroken. Yeah.
01:52:51
Speaker
Poor girl. ah Everybody's done We ourselves up, you know? well Everybody's done this. some crumbs a little bit to get some satisfaction and then just be heartbroken.
01:53:01
Speaker
Now this... Once again, he he was much he wasn't the greatest communicator, but he was much clearer than other men in the game. yeah And splittered her.
01:53:15
Speaker
What's that? He considered her her feelings in more ways than one because thiss yeah sort of yeah this game allowed her to actually have like good sex. This is the first time I think Mara experienced that kind of like attentiveness.
01:53:30
Speaker
So I think that's important. Again, it's kind of like the difference between finding like a relationship that you're kind of okay in you know do You like Daniel, but it's not the same as really, really liking someone.
01:53:44
Speaker
Obviously, you risk being heartbroken, which she was, but it's just an interesting arc of finding people she's compatible with. One of the things Dan Savage says about like relationships and your responsibility to one another is, he calls the campsite rule, leave somebody in better the same or better condition than you found them in. right yeah um And it's toxic relationships that don't.
01:54:10
Speaker
But most relationships do even – every relationship hurts when it ends, right? But most relationships, you look back and you're like, okay, I learned something from that person. I learned something about myself. I learned something about them. or I had good times. I had more good times than bad. um This is the only relationship I think in this game that followed the campsite rule.
01:54:36
Speaker
I think she – or at least tried to. I think, what's his name, John? John, yeah. John left her in better condition than he found her.
01:54:47
Speaker
Yes. But I think she was trying very hard for that not to be the case. Yeah, no, I know. i Yeah, I think it was like, oops, oopsie. i wanted I said I wanted this, but oops. Kind of liked this guy more than I thought.
01:55:02
Speaker
And this is what you were talking about earlier. He was much older than her, yeah so he probably should have shown even more care. Yeah, yeah. And even more communication because he should have... they They're both adults, whatever. But he should have known... He knows what it's like to be 19.
01:55:20
Speaker
Absolutely. Right? So he brought he should have definitely been like... Hey, before we do any of this, I want to make sure you're like absolutely 100% sure. Yeah. This is also the the only relationship where in this game where she is the rejected one.
01:55:38
Speaker
Because she ends things with Daniel. She ends things with Adam. But she is unfortunately the one getting her heart broken. She's getting rejected. And its it is heartbreaking. We've all been there. Where we're trying to like admit feelings and you're just being rejected. and you don't really you don't really know why, honestly. like i i could see Mara... Because John was so in so like kind of flirty with her and telling her like kind of big things like, oh, you're a superstar, Mara. Everyone loves you.
01:56:12
Speaker
it's i can see why that'd be confusing for her and why it is confusing. And Meredith wrote that very well. Even though... Even though Mara, even though they had agreed to that, you know, we're just going to hang out or whatever. Right. He, where, ah man. Yeah. It's just more complicated than it's that. yeah you know It always is. It always is. And especially, again, when you're dating somebody who's younger than you, when you, that's something you have to fucking think about. It's like, it doesn't matter if we said it.
01:56:45
Speaker
Yeah, it doesn't matter. Things change all the time. Yeah. yeah um they're going to say shit that they don't mean because they're young. Yeah. um But i just i just had I just realized there's this other thing about these three um where Adam is this like, I was thinking about it in terms of past, present, and future, right? Adam is this like,
01:57:12
Speaker
weight from her past that's chaining her to her past and refusing to let her move forward and he is he is a gravitational well trying to pull her backwards in time yeah um whereas as daniel is all about the present right they are making decisions as they happen they're not thinking about what they just went through their breakups they're not thinking about their future their um uh their actual potential for a relationship in the future they are not they're not considering anything even his decision to skip her thing he was only thinking about the present moment right yeah correct yeah so he very much kind of like represents the present while um john
01:58:01
Speaker
Is about the future, right? Like, he's living the lifestyle that Mara wants to live. Yeah. He is actively trying to support her future. He is trying to set himself up in a way where, like, this relationship isn't going to continue in the future, but he wants them to have a relationship in the future. He wants them to continue being friends and peers and colleagues and maybe even hang out and fuck again someday. But, like,
01:58:27
Speaker
ah they're... So in in this way, in a lot of ways, he represents the future. And it's very interesting. I wonder if that was – I'm sure that was intentional. Everything in this game feels intentional. I'm sure it was. Is that we have a past, present, and future sort of – Yeah, and I think it also kind of represents the the figuring out what you actually, what is important to you in a relationship. Because she, Mara was trying to get over the fact that maybe Daniel wasn't as caring in bed.
01:59:00
Speaker
She just kept it going, right? they They might have talked about it a little bit, but not enough, right? And it's like, ah, but that doesn't, that's not all there is to a relationship. He loves me. He loves me and I love him and that's what matters. And I think being with maybe an older, more mature person with successes under their belt, it kind of shows her what it could be like, what she could have. she should expect from people in the future. Yeah, absolutely. Even if not with him, but, you know, it should be fulfilling. It should be exciting and good, you know?
Mara's Artistic Journey and Relationship Reflections
01:59:34
Speaker
Man, yeah, and even even when you think about like conversations with Adam, we're very much about like...
01:59:42
Speaker
um what happened to this? Why are we not, why are why don't you want to still do this that we did before where conversations with like the last conversation you had with John, he's just looking in the mirror being like, i am getting old.
01:59:59
Speaker
I never looked this tired before. This is, this is, this is killing me. Like he's talking about the future. um And then it's after John that she sort of realizes
02:00:12
Speaker
I've been using all of these. This is where station to station comes from. Right. She's like, I've been sort of using all of these relationships as ways to propel me forward because I don't have enough faith in my schooling or my writing or whatever, or even just like myself.
02:00:35
Speaker
And she's like, and there's two ways to think about this, I think. And um um I'm really, I'm going to be curious about your thoughts here, but there's two ways to think. One is that like, she's been holding herself back by using love as this like pacifier um ah to guide her at times where she should have been using, she should have been pursuing her goals. The other one is that this is what it is being an artist and a writer, right? You're going to,
02:01:06
Speaker
And this is what – this is a lot of people in the game had talked about this, right? Like you don't want to spend all your time working. You want to spend some of your time living. Otherwise, you're not to have anything to write about. You're not going to have things to think about and talk about with people.
02:01:20
Speaker
um So when she talks about how – I don't remember the exact quote. I wish I had gotten it screenshotted. But she talks about, you know – her love for these people moving her from station to station.
02:01:39
Speaker
Maybe that is not a self-criticism, right? Maybe in some way that's her saying, This is who I wanted to be. It doesn't doesn't feel like it because i I keep thinking I want to be this successful writer and I keep thinking I want to be in love. But actually who I wanted to be this whole time was a person who feels really passionately and lets that passion guide me through life. Because yeah that's how you be an artist and that's how you be yeah is unapologetically you. Yeah.
02:02:11
Speaker
Honestly, I think – I really think it's ah it's it's definitely a mix of both. I don't know if I look at it one way or the other because that's just kind of how things happen in life in general. I think that i think initially there might have been a lot of self-sabotage going on. Right. Especially especially with like dating a friend that she doesn't know on that level. Right. That can be very self-sabotage-y because it's it's a distraction, right? It's a distraction from other things. It's a distraction from how you feel about yourself. You're not confronting how you feel about yourself. You're letting other people validate that for you. Yeah, define it. Yeah. yeah
02:02:47
Speaker
But then I think i do feel like she, with her, with John, with that segue into the third relationship, I think that wasn't self-sabotage. I think actually she did have, she was experiencing real things there that were going to help her grow. Yeah.
02:03:06
Speaker
um Which is to me why that makes that situation maybe the most sad. Okay. I see what you're saying. Yeah. i I really felt sad about that whole thing because it it felt it felt like she was finally figuring out something real um and kind.
02:03:22
Speaker
and But it just wasn't in the cards, right? So, yeah, I think –
02:03:29
Speaker
I don't, i yeah, I don't know. I think she, I think it's half and half. I think she did want to be this artist life and feel things, you know, very deeply and, you know, get into a mosh pit and and really feel your feelings and your anger. Fall in love really hard and get your heart really hard. yeah. yeah Yeah, so and and maybe that's because she just is a deeply feeling person, you know?
02:03:53
Speaker
Yeah, i mean i just I really relate to that part of it. There's just so much to learn from this game, I feel like, right? um Because while this game isn't isn't speaking authoritatively about all these things, it's an exploration.
02:04:07
Speaker
um
02:04:09
Speaker
It's such a smart and thoughtful exploration yeah that it's sort of a game that I think every creative person... and and every And every emotionally sensitive person. Both. Both types of people.
02:04:26
Speaker
Which are usually, there's a lot of overlap. Yeah. yeah um Should play this game. yeah I think so too. Because like there's there's there's so much just well-observed
02:04:42
Speaker
experience in this story. There's a moment. where she's talking about childhood. I think she's, she's saying something about like how she used to know the feel and smell of the moss. Right. And it's something I think about all the time, right? Like I used to have a different relationship to smaller things in the world. And it was probably, i think this is similar to something Mara says, but it's probably that it was new, right? This is the first time I'm smelling, uh, um,
02:05:17
Speaker
wet grass as the sun is heating up and it's the the, the, the dew is turning to vapor and there's a certain smell to it. Right. And now I've smelled that so many times. don't even think about it when I'm walking out to my car, but there used to be a time like I, I could spend hours just like poking around us, a so ah small so patch of dirt. And like, and it would be interesting to see every, every,
02:05:44
Speaker
different shape of rock that's there in that little patch um and like there was a curiosity
02:05:57
Speaker
with every everything you encounter that sort of fades as you grow older doesn't don't i don't think i grew out of that I mean, i used to sit and just like pop tar bubbles.
02:06:12
Speaker
Okay, because like the road, when they tar the road and then it would rain shortly after, the rain would get stuck under the tar. And I would just sit there and like pop the tar bubbles. I wouldn't do that now. I might see a tar bubble and be like, oh like when I was a kid and go pop it. But I don't think I'd run outside and like spend an hour popping tar bubbles. I think that our curiosity remains. At least that's how I feel about myself. um And you probably clock that too. i When you say I i have – when you were younger, you have more of a relationship with the small stuff. I i experienced this almost backwards um because I had such a traumatic growing up and then traumatic things happening in my 20s and 30s that I am now so ah curious and happy just to be in the world that I'm in. So yeah, I will like like look at a flower outside randomly and stop whoever I'm with and be like, hang on, I gotta take a picture of this. This is the best looking flower I've ever seen or marvel at something that's on a menu that I can't even, that I don't even order ah yeah i feel like yeah I feel like I reversed for some reason. because i feel like But that's to say I think everybody does retain their curiosity. i just think it goes to different places. i think your curiosity, which was once popping bubbles and tar, is now towards like world mythology.
02:07:43
Speaker
Okay, I see what you're saying. Like, I knew what all the different dirt smelled like at every different place. Like, the dirt at my grandparents' house smelled different than the dirt at my house, which smelled different than the dirt in the cul-de-sac behind my house, which smelled different than the dirt at school, right? like Yeah. yeah and i those this was a catalog of things in my head that I didn't realize until I grew up and then was like, and you smell ah some dirt and you're like, oh, man, I used to think about this stuff all the time. Yeah.
02:08:10
Speaker
Like I used to, like this used to be like a part of my experience of living every day. i just think those things change. I think you're, I said, I think that is pivoted and and evolved into ah creative endeavors and your interest in like world mythologies and culture and things. Because you're always curious and and like excited about those things. It's just because our brains grow with us. We can't always be curious about tar bubbles. Yeah. You know, or what dirt smells like. Now tar bubbles are familiar. I know what happens when pop up tar bubbles. And like, I know, yeah I've smelled so much fucking dirt in my life that I don't care about the smell of dirt anymore.
02:08:52
Speaker
there is some- Yeah, curiosity can be satiated. It's just, it just moves onto something else. But kind of like Mara was saying, like there is, there is a, there is like something about that that does feel like a loss. Yeah.
02:09:05
Speaker
Yes, I understand. I feel that. Anyway, what what do you have anything left to say about we've we've spun off into, and listeners won't know this because we've we've cut out big chunks of this, but we've spun off to just like how this relates to our personal lives. Yeah, I don't have anything else to say other than I just really connected with this game, and I do...
02:09:33
Speaker
I do think it is one of the best written games. It's extremely descriptive without being too windy. And it's beautifully written.
Final Praise and Outro
02:09:43
Speaker
It's like poetically written in this this is very writerly way. Well, also keeping it real. You know, she Mara talks like a real teenager. She doesn't talk like a poet.
02:09:53
Speaker
um But yeah, I think it's one of the best written games I've played in a long time, if ever. It's up there, man. yeah It's really high up there in terms of writing. It's way up there. I mean, it's it's very different. So like other games that have some of the best written games I've ever played is like Disco Elysium, maybe even Esoteric Ev from earlier earlier this year or like sure um or like Citizen Sleeper. But this game, this is so different than that that be hard to compare them.
02:10:23
Speaker
Yeah. But for what it is like writing about this literary, personal, um semi-autobiographical, right yeah, this is the hands down best written game I've ever played.
02:10:40
Speaker
Nice. Yeah, agree. All right. Well, because we're in spoiler section, we'll have to play a little bit of music and we'll come back and say goodbye to everybody. Okay. Insert music here.
02:11:07
Speaker
Okay, we are out of spoiler territory. Welcome back. Welcome back to me, Pushing Up Roses, and welcome back to you, Matt Allcamp. Did your position change during this break?
02:11:19
Speaker
Position? Like political position? No. so i mean No, gay rights and let's do a crime. What are you talking about? did Did Hanson Swanson promote or demote you during this break? Oh, I don't think we'll have to worry about him.
02:11:37
Speaker
oh Yeah, don't worry about it. Oh. Don't worry about it. Well, anyways, guys, thank you so much for listening. Man, this was a this isn't long one, but a fun one. We talked about a lot of games and fucking Perfect Tides. yeah Honestly, everybody needs to play these goddamn games. Perfect Tides? More like perfect game. Thank you. Thank you. be here all night.
02:12:02
Speaker
um um night the night's so over ah still here um i if you want to support us some ways that you can do that are you can share with friend or rate review like all that stuff we are save game podcast on instagram Instagram. I got the name right. And then I couldn't remember the app. What the fuck?
02:12:35
Speaker
um Both of us are on blue sky and the podcast is on YouTube, all that stuff, whatever. ah You can email us at Matt and roses at gmail.com.
02:12:47
Speaker
What's some other stuff? um Get plenty of roughage in your diet. Drink a lot of water. It's really hot out there right now. And you're going to dehydrate.
02:12:58
Speaker
I don't know what we will be talking about next week. Oh, I have but no idea. Tune in. It'll be fun. hope Whatever it is. I hope it's Gilbert good something mate.
02:13:12
Speaker
ah Whatever it I hope it's, ah fuck. What is the name? What what is their names? I hope it's jazz and faust jazz and faust. Oh, I hope it's jazz and faust. So bad. if anyone knows how to get jazz and faust running, please send me a step-by-step. Please do it. Send it to him. Please. I want to play jazz and faust so bad. I love jazz and faust.
02:13:36
Speaker
They're my best friends in the world. God. um Yeah, well, it's been fun to do this art with you because, you know, podcast is art.
02:13:50
Speaker
It is art. It's not all fun, though, because art is suffer. But it was fun, though. But it was fun. and But it was fun suffering. It was fun. Suffering's fun. It was great. You know what? Suffering's fun now. I can.