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Episode 82 - Esoteric Ebb
577 Plays1 hour ago
What part of your psyche makes you listen to podcasts? The Charisma of the hosts? Your unwavering Constitution to stand all the "ums" and corny jokes? The Intelligence that allows you to write corrective emails after evert episode? Whatever the case, we have a great podcast for you and it's all about a D&D/Disco Elysium-like called ESOTERIC EBB.
Matt and Roses gush over this incredibly special game. We also talk about about a chunk pixel-graphic horror game and a musical RPG??
Games Mentioned:
- Paradise Falls
- People of Note
- Esoteric Ebb
- Disco Elysium
- Baldur's Gate
- Knights of the Old Republic
- Quest for Glory V: Dragonfire
- Planescape: Torment
- Wildermyth
- Cult Vacui
- Myst
SPOILER SECTION: 1:33:00 - 1:40:00
Email us! mattandroses@gmail.com
Join our Discord: https://discord.gg/fPv7hRgTeV
Follow us on Instagram: instagram.com/saveyourgamepodcast
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Transcript
The Love-Hate Relationship with D&D
00:00:00
Speaker
What would you say if I told you that I don't like D&D? What would you say? I wouldn't believe you. Yeah.
00:00:13
Speaker
ah here's Good instinct. Yeah. But here's that this this phenomenon is happening where I convince myself that I don't care about D&D, that D&D CRPGs take up too much of my time and I don't like them. I don't want to play them. And then I do it and I love it. And that's all I want to do. And then I go back to like, I don't really like D&D though.
00:00:34
Speaker
You know, i what is that I think both things can be true. I think D&D can be, take up too dnd and dnd related shit could take up too much time like balder's gate it'll take you like 200 hours to play if you want to play all three of them you're gonna be playing them you're gonna be playing them for 700 hours the rest of my life it's all balder's gate And like actually playing D&D. Okay. There's this thing about actually playing D&D that video games, I guess, replicate ah pretty well then, which is every D&D party falls apart because you're so you're talking about usually once a week.
00:01:21
Speaker
Right. having to just interrupt the rest of life to just sit there and like roll die or whatever. And you have to do it every week. And yeah everybody's got to align with your schedule. like You do it for hours at a time. and so like the experience of being in a D&D group is that every single week you go, I don't want to fucking play D&D this week. God damn it. I'm so tired. I want to do something else. And then-
00:01:52
Speaker
You go do it and you're like, that was that was the fucking best. I'm so happy I played D&D. And then the next week you're like, don't to fucking go to D&D this week. I mean, a good answer is like D&D computer games.
00:02:06
Speaker
Because yeah you don't have to align with other people. You don't have to take their schedules into account. You just sit at your computer alone and play D&D inspired game for 20 hours. You already see what's worse about it, though, right? Maybe I like being alone, okay? You sit at your computer alone for 20 hours. Maybe your cat's there. Maybe they don't want to hang out with you either. I don't know. but Yeah, because they can sense you're being a total fucking nerd. You know what I do, though?
00:02:38
Speaker
No. I sit at my computer alone. okay I boot up my D&D. I light a candle. I get some, like, yumblies. And then I just start texting you as though... as i'm as though I'm there. I'm like, go I'm not really alone. Matt's kind of there. Yeah, that is how you play most games these days, it seems. What are you what are you trying to say?
00:03:01
Speaker
What are you trying to say, Matt? I started... but I like having my Steam Deck because now I play all games like I do all things, which is trying to be as horizontal as possible.
00:03:19
Speaker
So I'm laying in bed and I'm trying to get, I'm trying to see how much I can be, like how little I can lift my arms while still holding and playing the game. Like, don' don't your like arms fall asleep and doesn't your neck hurt? Yeah. Yeah, so you got to keep shifting around. So actually, you know what Actually, so I'm a hero for this.
00:03:41
Speaker
For being For overcoming adversity. Oh my God. for For struggling in the way that I have. I have no response to that. I'm starting the intro.
Introduction to 'Save Your Game' Podcast
00:04:12
Speaker
Hey, everybody, and welcome back to Save Your Game. I'm Madocamp, and with me is the lucky.
00:04:23
Speaker
Lucky? And or unlucky. oh Depending on the dice roll. Ominous. Pushing up roses. How's it going, pushing up roses? hate D&D. No, that's not true. No, you love D&D. I think actually what has been revealed to me is that pushing up roses really likes D&D and is very much a nerd. A nerd girl. Nerd girl. Nerd girl. You knew you were a nerd, though.
00:04:48
Speaker
No, not really. I'm not as, here's that here's my argument. And you're allowed, you're my friend, you're allowed to to debate this. I don't think I'm as nerdy as people. But you're saying so that this is this is a warning to people online. You're not allowed to debate this.
00:05:03
Speaker
I mean, I know who I Because we're friends. But you people, if if if this episode comes out and you guys start debating online in front of everybody, whether Pushing Up Roses is a nerd or not,
00:05:19
Speaker
You're, I don't know what the consequences are. No, I will come in and slay with words, which is a thing that I'm very good at. um Yeah, I'm a little nerdy, I suppose. I i think I'm a cool nerd, you know? Like people, i think people regard me as kind of cool because I got my tattoos. I look a little alt, you know? i think about this a lot, right? it That I also regard myself as a cool nerd. No.
00:05:49
Speaker
I am sociable. That's not what makes a person cool. Just because I can socialize. Yes, that's exactly what makes a person cool. Whether coolness is defined entirely on how much other people enjoy your company. I want that to be a stat.
00:06:04
Speaker
a coolness factor that I can upgrade. Mine would be like 20 right away. And I'm a fairly, I've, I've, I've, the majority of my life, I've been a fairly popular guy. Like I've had plenty of friends and I've, I have no problem making friends and I have no problem. ah and I go, you know, I go to parties, I do cool stuff.
00:06:27
Speaker
I have interesting, I have an interesting life. So I, but this is my theory, right? I think every nerd thinks of themselves as a cool nerd. But I really am one.
00:06:39
Speaker
ah Just because you have tattoos. I really am a cool nerd. um Roses. I'm not really a nerd. Sorry. go i'm I'm deep in i'm thinking about things now. Yes, Matt.
00:06:54
Speaker
Here's my question to you. Okay. Did you play any cool video games recently?
Critique and Analysis of 'Paradise Falls'
00:07:01
Speaker
Yes. Yes. I know exactly why you're saying it that way I know because i I don't want to get too – I want to save – I want to allot a lot of time for what we're talking about today. Sure. Because I just had such a fun time with it and I just love to gush and and discuss.
00:07:21
Speaker
But I did – I think we both played, correct, is we played um Paradise Falls, which is an indie pixelated style adventure game. And I think we both took away different things from it.
00:07:35
Speaker
Yes. Yeah. And I am. Okay. This is a game. let's let Let's just give it a big overview, big, broad overview, just so people know what we're talking about. It is a, yeah, it is a pixel horror point and click adventure game. um It works on a verb wheel. You click on something and then you decide it's not actually a wheel, but you click on something and you can either, I think, look or talk to or touch. Right.
00:08:04
Speaker
And it's a little hard. You're a guy who works a job he hates and he loses his daughter in a mysterious way. Yeah. She just like disappears from the back of his car while he's having an an a a hallucination. Right. Yeah. It's weird. It's bizarre. Yeah. There's a lot in this game that's a little hard to say exactly what happened when. Yeah, that's true. Because there's a lot of hallucinating going on.
00:08:33
Speaker
um And I think the writing's a little clumsy. but i do wonder... i was thinking about that, and I do wonder if that's where... we are likes and dislikes kind of ventured off because i do kind of in ah in a twin peaks kind of way i kind of like abstract horror i like the vibe of it i i don't have to know really why something happened or what happened in specific detail but i wonder if you're the type of person who prefers to know what happened or figures it out later you know
00:09:06
Speaker
I think so. i just think this game fails to answer almost every question it raises. yeah and i think this game also struggles to have a cohesive approach.
00:09:23
Speaker
point i think I think everything it tell it's like trying to tell you is important. like Like the theme of the story, it undermines at the same time. And I don't think that's um on purpose. I think that's just clumsy writing. So you end up in a little town called Paradise Falls where, ah unclear why but you think you might find your daughter here.
00:09:50
Speaker
no It's never really explained why you correctly, spoiler alert, made the guess that Paradise Falls has something to do with her disappearance.
00:10:05
Speaker
Is it because they were on when she disappeared? That's where they were going? Were there they their there? Oh, you know what? I know why. Actually, i do remember why. Because she had drawn a bunch of pictures before she disappeared. And at least one of them appeared to be...
00:10:24
Speaker
Brookfield Middle School, which is in Paradise Falls, which is where you guys were headed to. Right. Right. Yes. Yeah. So you head there and Paradise Falls is a town that has recently flooded completely okay and at the same time is full of all these random tragedies that appear to have occurred in the recent past.
00:10:47
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. You also get a prologue where a priest is sitting with a cop in a cafe and that cop's like, hey, I've been hearing rumors that, and i don't know why this is a cop's job to do, but he's like, I've been hearing rumors that your church has stopped worshiping
00:11:07
Speaker
God and has started becoming more like a cult. called Worshiping this, the the covenant of Rasulka is what they're calling it. And the guy, and the priest is like,
00:11:20
Speaker
you should stick to cop business. Oh, and his daughter, that's right. His daughter is also appearing at school with more and more bruises. And he's like, you should stick to your own business. And suddenly the cop just like dies in front of him. And it's unclear. Yeah. Really strange. A really weird thing. Yeah. Unclear if the priest did that or not.
00:11:40
Speaker
I think it's implied. But yeah, you're you're so right. There's a lot of things that just aren't aren't really explained. it almost is It almost kind of exists as a horror piece for horror's sake.
00:11:55
Speaker
Because it is... it that And I kind of told you, like I really like the vibe of this game, though. Even though, yes, the writing is clunky. Things are not really explained.
00:12:05
Speaker
the The town is... Weird um and depressing. But what I think what it does at least is it has this horror vibe to it. It's it's very heavy on sound, oh which I clocked right away. There's a lot of weird, eerie sounds.
00:12:22
Speaker
um It feels very lonely. The thing that i that it it reminded me of right away was Trilby's Notes, which is one of the Trilby games by Yahtzee. um It had a very similar type of horror vibe going on to me. Troll Piece Notes is fantastic, by the way, if if you guys haven't played it. It's a parser game, which we all know is pretty rare these days, but it's it's one of those games that did it, I think, pretty well.
00:12:49
Speaker
ah But i yeah, I really like the sound design. i And I liked the vibe of it. I felt that something was really off. But when you get to the nitty gritty of it and you try to like understand it and try to describe things and and understand motivations, right that's where it I think it it kind of loses it a little bit.
00:13:10
Speaker
Yeah, I think so. I think there's some...
00:13:15
Speaker
There's, I didn't have much trouble solving puzzles in this game. Yeah, they weren't bad. um The few that I did have trouble with were, I think, so kind of wildly obtuse that I don't know how how you would do it them. um For example, there's a, at some point you're in a church and you're talking to, very unclear whether most of the people you encounter are real or...
00:13:42
Speaker
um like spirits of people who are no longer who who are are just like aren't here anymore but they're like unresolved or even if our character is hallucinating again because I feel like we hallucinated a lot in the beginning of this game and then I wasn't clear if that was just part of this character is that he is dealing with like hallucinations throughout Right. and So in this instance, you actually have to consult your hallucinations to answer a series of questions this person poses to you in the church. And that was so unclear to me.
00:14:22
Speaker
i didn't like I hadn't encountered these hallucinations yet at all. Oh, OK. And so for kind of. I guess there is a hint there because it's like you have to you have to light something on fire and there's no... There would be no reason to light this thing on fire. there's nothing There's nothing that would suggest you should light this thing on fire, but there is a sign nearby that's like, no open flames near here. Right, right. um So...
00:14:55
Speaker
Oftentimes you have to murder somebody in order to experience your hallucinations. um But you learn really early on that usually when you're murdering somebody, you're actually not doing anything at all. It's all in your head.
00:15:09
Speaker
Right. um got of It's got a little bit of a, especially maybe in the beginning, a little bit of an American psycho vibe to it. um Where things, some things are kind of nebulous and some things are, are not.
00:15:25
Speaker
I don't know. See, like, i when I first started playing the game, I really liked it. And then as I went on and talked to you more about it, then I was a little more middling on it, I think. I think there's some themes that that were hitting me. Like, there's a lot of this game that's just about how scar how scary and torturous it is to be a parent. Sure. The way that...
00:15:48
Speaker
ah a person's wellbeing and depends entirely upon you or or or just maybe to love in general. um The way, ah you know, but in certain terms of parenting, the way a person's wellbeing depends entirely on you and the amount of pressure that has in the amount of fear that creates in you. There's a lot of circumstances in this game in which a parent has somehow failed their child you
00:16:18
Speaker
That's caused some like deep emotional disturbance in them. But in the end, and there's there's a lot about responsibility too, because there's another character who's kind of sacrificing, willing, willfully sacrificing their own kids' so safety and well-being. Right. To...
00:16:38
Speaker
to ah to yeah I'll just say resurrect their wife. I don't think that's too big of a spoiler when it's in the abstract. think that's but The very end, the thing that frustrated me the most, I think, is the very end of this game sort of undermines any concept of responsibility.
00:16:59
Speaker
um Because you get the sense that, okay, i'm a I'm an irresponsible father and sort of a bad employee and I was a bad husband. um And now I'm up against this guy who is who is worse at all of those things than I was um to a absurd horror level degree.
00:17:19
Speaker
and But the final sequence is mostly dreamlike and hallucinatory and hard to tell if anything. if What if anything actually happened.
00:17:31
Speaker
Right. But
00:17:35
Speaker
the correct choice in every scenario that you face in the end of this game is freedom above all else. Like, don't feel, don't let your responsibilities hold you back. Instead, you need to be free. And all people need to be free. And you can't control people. You should never allow anybody to control you, including your children. like Or, like, the end of this game is,
00:18:09
Speaker
You sort of like go, or you like ride off into the sunset having decided that none of this was your responsibility with a kid
Artistic Value of Nihilistic Horror in Games
00:18:19
Speaker
who lost his parents for similar reasons. And like, and he's in, you're like, we're now both free. And it's like, this is the message you wanted me to take away from your fucking game? Is that i look actually, he's like i don't he was a good, at the message though he was a good guy for being a shitty parent im like like the wrong choice would have been to supposed to think that he is just a shitty parent that is part of this horror plot is that he is just kind of a piece of shit the whole the whole time and that stays consistent so okay what i felt was in comparison to the villain of this story
00:19:03
Speaker
you you are We are nowhere near the level of the villain of this story. Sure, sure. And you defeat the villain by, again, by just kind of like declaring yourself free of all responsibility. Right, right.
00:19:22
Speaker
And to me, that that is sort of inherently making the point, like, what makes... what makes me less bad than this other guy is this other guy's beholden to his weird God that he cultively worships.
00:19:40
Speaker
I'm beholden to nobody. And so it it does feel like it's making a moral statement, but you're right. Maybe it's not. Maybe I'm, maybe I'm looking for something that wasn't intended or maybe what I'm suggesting was intended was in fact intended and you walked away going okay that was a nihilistic game and I learned nothing from it and that's fine because it's horror and I walked away going that's a nihilistic game and I learned nothing from it and it makes me mad
00:20:14
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. I'm trying to think of other like, like extremely nihilistic horror. That doesn't, you know what I mean? That doesn't really have a message that I enjoyed. um there Have you seen weapons?
00:20:31
Speaker
I did. I feel, I'm not saying that that's a completely nihilistic horror movie, but I would say it it it has ah an ending that has justice in it, but it's not a good ending.
00:20:43
Speaker
You know what I mean? there People were affected by what happened. Correct. In weapons. I don't know. But I know who was good and who was bad in weapons and why um Even if I'm not sure the ending makes sense.
00:21:03
Speaker
The ending doesn't make a moral case, I don't think. But it does. But again, i know i know the flaws of the villain and I know the virtues of the heroes. Yeah.
00:21:21
Speaker
No, that's good. That's a good point. And in Paradise Falls, I i don't. I think that... yeah I think, which makes me think that the creator of the game is just kind of a nihilist. And yeah I think as a result, not necessarily that their art is, their work is bad, but that I wouldn't enjoy any of their work. yeah Because i I don't share their values.
00:21:53
Speaker
That's fair. Yeah, that's fair. i yeah i kind of look at it as a as just a horror art piece almost. Where, no, you don't really need to take anything away from it. It is disturbing because it is. Which I think is hard to digest for some people um because horror usually does have more defined messages. I would say most horror does, right?
00:22:20
Speaker
um but But yeah, that's why I said it it's like gave me some Twin Peaks vibes because it it gets into the abstract where I just don't really quite understand it. and i'm just i'm I'm solely working on vibes here. and that's... that Now that you say that, I think weapons is a good comparison because I think weapons is an idea. idea like i don't I still feel the same way about you know the flaws that this game have has are less... are are Actually, I'll just say not present in weapons, but I do see what you're saying is like weapons is a
00:23:02
Speaker
movie in which there isn't a clear message. Right. um But again, the moral, the ethical perspective of Zack Kreger the creator is clear and is one that I am more or less aligned with ah in that in in the in that piece of art. Because again, it's like, I know who the good guys are and I know who the bad guys are and I know ah what both of their flaws and virtues are.
00:23:37
Speaker
yeah But in Paradise Falls, this was created just... because we're probably going to wrap up this discussion pretty soon. It's, um you find it on Steam. It's by developer and publisher L. Goat.
00:23:51
Speaker
um and It was released February of this year. um So l Goat, I don't, I don't know what their value systems are. And I don't, I don't know if they know again, it it just feels like a nihilistic piece of art to me. Yeah.
00:24:11
Speaker
Which I think definitely has its place. I think what it is super successful at is being very dark and giving me this certain, cause I like, I'm a horror girly. like a lot in that genre and I feel like it is hitting like certain things that are, um,
00:24:29
Speaker
and satisfying to me. I was going to say appealing and yes, but more so satisfying. It really, like I said, it was giving me those kind of dark vibes that the Trilby games had.
00:24:40
Speaker
And I do think that is a difficult thing to achieve in an indie adventure game is to give those kind of vibes. I felt that way about Nightmare Frames too, which is a game I gush about because that game rocked. I loved it. But yeah, I think it is successful at...
00:24:57
Speaker
It's very interesting, like, horror vibe going on. Yeah, I think that's true. and there's some And there's some good pixel art in it. There's some bad pixel art in it but there's some good pixel art in it. And...
00:25:10
Speaker
and Like I'm trying to think of other nihilistic art that I like and why this doesn't hit me the same way. Like the band The Misfits, for example. Oh, yeah. Why would I like The Misfits and not Paradise Falls? What do The Misfits have that Paradise Falls doesn't? think because The Misfits can be a little, almost a bit of a parody of something. Yes, it is very nihilistic and somewhat disturbing some of their songs. But I've always kind of looked at them.
00:25:43
Speaker
as like a slight horror novelty. And maybe that's incorrect. Maybe I'm not supposed to, but... That's good point. You're not supposed to take the Misfits seriously, but this is a game that seems to be asking you to take it seriously. Yeah, I think so too. Even though... and here's my last complaint about it.
00:26:01
Speaker
Even though... There is a lot in Paradise. the Paradise Falls does that thing that point and click games do. Sometimes that can be so frustrating where you're in the middle of a very serious moment and then they make the character make some sort of like really just...
00:26:19
Speaker
weird joke that you're like, okay, what tone do you want do you want here? Is this Monkey Island or is this... or is this like And again, we've talked about it before. it's somebody i think somebody in ah on YouTube or something maybe got mad at us like about this. We talked about how there's humor in Twin Peaks. And they were like, oh yeah, there's humor in the in the in the TV show that's about...
00:26:50
Speaker
death it's about the murder and the assault of a young girl in a town that's but and it's like you're kidding me right yeah the point the the whole point of that show is that there's supposed to be humor in it like that's lynch and in his thoughts on it rest in power uh Yeah, there is some. And and when I say humor, I don't, I don't, I think this is an interesting thing. And and yeah we'll wrap this up. But ah humor doesn't always have to be like lighthearted.
00:27:19
Speaker
You know what I mean? So they're saying these are very serious themes. Why would you bring, quote, humor into it? Humor doesn't have to be lighthearted. Humor can be thoughtful and absurd. i think if you... if you And I haven't seen much of Twin Peaks, but I know enough about it because i everybody in my life, everybody I've ever known has been at to a Twin Peaks fan. And I don't know why I haven't picked. But ah I. If you watch Twin Peaks and don't see any humor in it.
00:27:51
Speaker
I have no idea what it would be like to be in your brain. Like, what is your brain? How could you possibly watch the absurdity that is in that show?
00:28:03
Speaker
yeah And the literal jokes that are written for that show. Yes. And say, this is this is humorless because a girl died. What is nobody what is your brain like? Nobody's discounting the disturbing and sad nature of those things that happen in Twin Peaks. When we focus on some of those things, they're extremely sad. ah Fire Walk With Me is the movie yeah that's tied to Twin Peaks about Laura Palmer. it's It's extremely serious. It's extremely sad and tragic and serious. But just because there is humor, that doesn't mean that we're taking things less seriously.
00:28:41
Speaker
that that doesn't equate Humor does not equate to let's take everything less seriously. These are not opposing things. This is one of those things that David Lynch is famous for.
00:28:52
Speaker
yeah Is his ability to work absurdity and humor into incredibly dark things. ah storytelling and like yeah or or into incredibly dark stories, there've been there have been classes taught on the humor of Twin Peaks, right? There have been scholarly papers. like Sorry, if that person's listening, now I feel like I'm talking to that person, so we should probably move on. But like if that person's listening, or if you're a person who agrees with that person, just go to Google Scholar and type in humor Twin Peaks and read one of the dozen scholarly papers that have been written about how humor was used in an effective way to create an atmosphere yeah in Twin
Role of Humor in Storytelling and Horror
00:29:36
Speaker
Peaks. Yeah. Listen, like i but I talk about serious things. like i'll talk about I'm very candid about my overdoses and my and my suicidal attempts, and I will be slightly humorous about some of those things. You have to be. And I'm not not taking myself seriously. Those are very serious things. Yeah. But in reflection, i can use a little bit of humor to to diffuse it for myself, to diffuse it for the audience, because at the end of the day, we're we're telling a story here. Yeah. You know, it can't be all dark, all sad, all tragic all the time, like Paradise Falls. Yeah, all that all that said, to ah to go all the way back to my original point. The humor in this game absolutely fails. It is like, fails yeah i think yeah, it is either like, ah you know,
00:30:25
Speaker
he murders somebody and then all of a sudden he's Guybrush Threepwood for a second and then he goes back to being depressed or it's that Marvel type, like that Marvel movie type of humor just like done poorly. Like you see so often that Joss Whedon-y kind of humor where it's like,
00:30:40
Speaker
you know, some something very serious happens and then one of the characters is like, uh, well, that happened. Like, one of those sorts of jokes. um So, i put jokes in quotes there.
00:30:54
Speaker
yeah so, while humor definitely, definitely, weapons is another good example, humor definitely has a place in horror. Absolutely. And in serious storytelling. ah But,
00:31:10
Speaker
it's bad in this game. Yeah, agreed. But I do, i will ah as we wrap up, I will say, I think it is worth playing. I think it is interesting. I think it has a certain vibe to it um that that kind of makes it worth it, especially for people who like horror and really dark, like really dark themes and can be a little cathartic.
00:31:32
Speaker
And it's an indie dev. The game has four user reviews on Steam. So it it could, you know, it's it's it's it's so it's a project that's clearly somebody's ah labor of love. And yes if for only that reason, it is worth checking out. That I can absolutely distinguish, that it is like an artistic endeavor. Yes. 100%. Yeah.
00:31:56
Speaker
And it's clearly the um product of one person's imagination and hard work. Yeah. Yeah, for sure. Okay.
00:32:07
Speaker
that's Paradise Falls. Okay. um Can we get onto it now? one more One more second, because there's something i want to I want to point you in the direction of that I only only played the first few minutes of.
Introduction to 'Esoteric Eb' and Its World
00:32:23
Speaker
First, like, half hour of. Okay. There's a RPG that was released um just a couple days ago as of recording this called People of Note.
00:32:37
Speaker
and it is a music a turn-based musical RPG. Ooh. So you play an aspiring pop star who... ah is she's She's trying to recruit a a team of musicians, to and there's like some conspiracy trying to keep her from um achieving fame. Anyway, you're traveling around this very musical world.
00:33:04
Speaker
The characters sometimes burst into musical numbers, so it is a musical. Mm-hmm. And the combat is musical. So you are in, so like your turns are like musical phrases and you put your attacks kind of like in order on the musical notation.
00:33:26
Speaker
And then when like you deal damage through playing like a short, like all your attacks are little rhythm games. Yeah. Um,
00:33:39
Speaker
Anyway, it's just it's a cool idea. i don't So far, I haven't loved the music. Okay. That's kind of important. Yeah, I know. i'm not sure if this is I'm not sure how good or bad this game is yet, but it is such a fucking interesting concept that I think if you have any curiosity at all, it's worth exploring.
00:34:03
Speaker
Nice. I'll have to look into that. It's People of Note by Iridium Studios. Cute name. Now, pushing a process. Yes.
00:34:17
Speaker
Do you want to throw on Miki Snellerino? And then we can talk about the game we're here to talk about today, Esoteric Ebbe.
00:34:52
Speaker
Hey everyone, welcome back to Save Your Game. I am one of your hosts, Pushing Up Roses, with me as always, the nerdy but extremely cool co-host of mine. And sexy. And strong.
00:35:12
Speaker
Shorter than you might think. And fast. Really fast. a Super aerodynamic. Don't know how that works. But yeah, Matt Aukamp. Hey! Oh, I didn't realize you were talking about me, but it's all true. I don't know. It's all true. You thought I was... Wait, who did you think we were talking about when I'm like, yeah, sure, sexy, aerodynamic, yeah. Who who do you think that was about?
00:35:38
Speaker
Well... the The person I get compared to the most, Ryan Gosling. oh Oh, I do feel that way about Ryan and Gosling. That's true. Would tap. Honestly, I would tap that.
00:35:52
Speaker
Ryan Gosling? Yeah. I think everybody would. I think the only time- Everyone would, yeah. The only time people don't find Ryan Gosling- The only time people aren't into Ryan Gosling, if they're attracted to men, are if- it Some people find him just, like, so handsome that he might as well be, a so like, a stick figure.
00:36:13
Speaker
Right? Like, there's nothing... that there's nothing... um He's more of like the idea of a handsome guy than a agree handsome guy. i've i've That is something I've heard from multiple women. I don't think he's like particularly like, whoa, super attractive guy. I think he is a nice guy with some cool features and he played Ken, but I am not attracted to him as Ken. That hair?
00:36:39
Speaker
No. Uh-uh. No. So... What we're here to talk about today is Gosling. Ryan guy Gosling, yeah, and how I would tap that.
00:36:51
Speaker
No, we are here to talk about esoteric eb. speaking of esoteric eb, can you not sex anybody? in ah Can you not, like, bond? You can bond with people, but what I'm asking is, can you sleep with them?
00:37:07
Speaker
I think not. oh i think you are i think you are very clearly supposed to be inept at romance. But wait, but I asked someone out and they said yes. I did get a yes.
00:37:21
Speaker
I also got a yes from one person. of it seemed about It seemed very reluctant, though. Mine was not reluctant. Mine was like, yeah, let's do it. I'm like, cool.
00:37:33
Speaker
And then it didn't happen, and I wanted it to happen in the game. Is this person – We'll talk about it well when we start talking about the – not the classes, but the the the political aspect of it, I suppose. Because I did – I actually got to yeses two date two yeses, two yeses?
00:37:50
Speaker
Yeah, from two – the two toughest ladies in the game. Yes, I got one from a very tough lady. um All right. So Esoteric Ebb, it is... do you want to try and do you want to try and describe it?
00:38:05
Speaker
Oh, yeah. Me with my no experience in D&D. Let's go. okay Okay, so I'm going to do it. Good, good, good. So Esoteric Ebb is a CRPG or a computer roleplay game. um The developer said that he was very inspired by Disco Elysium and obviously D&D.
00:38:25
Speaker
And this game is...
00:38:29
Speaker
know how to explain this. It's extremely narrative. It's it's narrative ah first and foremost, front and center. And then it is also heavily ah not inspired by, it is a D&D game, right? It's not inspired by, I would say this is a D&D game.
00:38:47
Speaker
I think you can't say it is a D&D game just because it's not. D&D is like a brand. and It's a brand. I know it's a brand. Yeah, it's not a licensed D&D game. But yes, it is very D&D inspired. Right. So, you know, you're doing you're making decisions based on dice rolls.
00:39:03
Speaker
um you are you have a You have classes that you can kind of upgrade. You start as a cleric. You do not get a ah a choice in this. You have to be a cleric. But if you do what I did,
00:39:15
Speaker
and loot everybody all the time, you could veer into being a rogue. or but So this is, it's, if you've played disco Elysium,
00:39:27
Speaker
very similar. it is. Yeah, it is. It is very, very much Disco Elysium, but fantasy. That's that's what it is. Right. Because I feel like Disco Elysium, I wouldn't. It had more low fantasy aspects of it, whereas Esoteric Eb has high fantasy aspects. You're going to run into a griffin. You're going to run into a sphinx.
00:39:52
Speaker
And you're going to talk to him. Yeah. and you And goblins and bugbears and elves. and i like the kobold, by the way. He's my favorite. You do have spells that, you know, like you do have basically D&D spells. Yeah. um And you, everything is based on your six D&D stats. You have your, and you know what? Actually, this might be,
00:40:17
Speaker
a good entry point into some of the themes of this game because each stat is also sort of linked to a political party. And wait which one is the rogue linked to the free striders?
00:40:30
Speaker
Oh, it is. Yeah. So there, and they are all linked to a color and you can see that color when you you see that color appear throughout the game. um And it sort of, it lets you know what a certain thing, like as a certain challenges stat is, but it also lets you know, like a person's political affiliation or quest political affiliation or a decision. So, um so there's obviously there's strength, which is the ah the nationalists. yeah Yeah. Which are like the MAGA of this world. They are anti-immigrant. They believe they want to, they want to,
00:41:14
Speaker
they want a revolution that's based entirely on nationalism. They want to be, you know, like a isolationist nation with closed borders. And they believe that the, but what is clearly the ruling class of this world are the oppressed class. Uh,
00:41:32
Speaker
My strength was very high because I like playing a so ah strong rogue in games like this. And so I kept having to listen to to the strength conversations. it's kind of like Disco Elysium where your stats are kind of talking to you. Like constitution is a personality. Strength is its own personality. I hated listening to strength. I'm like, shut up strength. Where is dexterity? Where's my thief? I want to talk to him.
00:41:58
Speaker
It's way more... Yes, it's way more that way than Disco Elysium, I'll say, too. Because it's everything you encounter basically... all of your stats get to weigh in um it's and they all have very distinct voices and the strength is always like be a man and do the honorable thing do the honorable everybody like what fight everybody do be be honorable be don't be stoic don't show emotion right and then there's uh
00:42:33
Speaker
So then there's Dexterity, which is the Freestriders. And they are basically like the libertarian party of this world. They believe in free trade and freedom above all else, including like a laissez-faire market. they Right.
00:42:51
Speaker
This is like the rogue class and I love playing a rogue, but I did not identify with the free striders. So that's why i asked. And that's why my response was a little confused because i was like, oh, okay. um Cause usually when we say like libertarian, they're mostly centrist. Although I would say in this game, they're more left.
00:43:18
Speaker
Well, matter in this game, I think so. Well, because libertarianism is based around an ideal of liberalism.
00:43:30
Speaker
Right. um But as as they point out in this game, right, ah several times, free striderism is sort of the way To make sure nothing... that it's the It's the path of the least change.
00:43:50
Speaker
Yeah. um Because by removing any controls on the free market, you are allowing corporations and the rich to do whatever the fuck they want to everybody else. Right. And as some people in this game have already pointed out occasionally, they...
00:44:15
Speaker
Already do that. That's already how it is in this world. Right, right. that would This would just be making that codified into law. Yeah. um So, but because they have these liberal ideals, oftentimes when you're in dialogues, even if you don't agree with libertarianism politically, they will be an attractive option when you're talking to somebody because you'll be like,
00:44:45
Speaker
Yeah. Oh, I saw myself sympathizing with that. You'd be like, with that yeah freedom from control and oppression, right? like You know what this game is very good at, actually, and we'll we'll talk about it more, is um not sympathizing with every with every it's not what am i not class what am i trying to say yeah class not sympathizing with every class and every political party, but it's good at understanding Right. and And putting it out there and having kind of this very measured look at things without, ah you know, without being problematic about it, I guess. Right. I think even the nationalists, when you talk to the the nationalists are just a bunch of fucking kids and a bunch of yeah a bunch of fucking poor kids. Right.
00:45:32
Speaker
Bunch brats, honestly. Refuse to get jobs because... Well, they don't get jobs because they're... The kids are clearly, like, lazy. They don't want the kind of jobs that they're saying that the immigrants are taking. And that's what happens in the rest of the world, too. That's what happens in the real world a lot times, as well. Yeah, these fucking people don't want to be farmers and factory workers and whatnot. But they'll complain about how...
00:45:58
Speaker
There's no jobs because the immigrants are taking on the farm and factory jobs. And that's what the kids are in this game. But it's so clear. They're just kids who are poor and don't know who to blame their shit on. And instead of saying, instead of looking at the rich and being like, yeah, the rich are oppressing us. And those are the people we need to push back against.
00:46:18
Speaker
They go, Yeah, the rich are oppressing all of us, so I have to climb to the top of the pile ah of garbage. Right. Which, again, isn't very MAGA. um And then the... knee so ah Yeah, go ahead. Definitely explain the other classes. So we did we did the Nationalists. We did Freestrider.
00:46:39
Speaker
I'm going to jump down to what is a little easier to understand. Yeah. The ones that are easier to understand. So wisdom is the Asgalists. um Asgalists are like the communist socialist party. And that's, again, that's governed by wisdom. And that is like, we should keep corporations and corporate interests in check by,
00:47:02
Speaker
ah Supporting unions and workers rights and we should open our borders and allow for and like the idea of nation states is oppressive to the working class already. right And they are the party that believes yeah in equal distribution of wealth.
00:47:27
Speaker
Sure. um So that's your wisdom stat. That is like, that's generally like your cleric-y stat. Usually like your your priests, your clerics, they go by wisdom. um In this game, your wisdom often is just like the voice of reason in most circumstances. My wisdom was very low because I was so, I just wanted to loot everything. There's something wrong with me and it's coming out in how I play these games. You know, looking at this chart here, actually, it it it equates wisdom with the druid.
00:48:04
Speaker
Okay. is Is intelligence maybe? Intelligence the... So i got it I got it wrong. So cleric is is strength. Nationalist and cleric. that's what i that's what I thought. I was listening to you and nodding. But yes, I was like, I think cleric is strength.
00:48:19
Speaker
Yeah, I think I got it. I got that wrong. um Yeah. Because it's barbarian is a constitution, right? Okay. Okay. okay but So then the next one that I think is easy to understand is the Arcanists.
00:48:32
Speaker
Yeah. Which is, this world was ruled at one time. Okay, first it was ruled by snails. ah Beautiful. We should say, this world, this is a funny game. Yes. We're talking about very serious themes here, but this game is fucking funny. It's very funny, and it reminded me, or enlightened me, that D&D can be so unserious. It can be so fun, and so funny, and magical. And failure should be...
00:49:01
Speaker
An opportunity, not a consequence. And like imaginative. I think that's the word I'm going for here. It's very imaginative. It is funny and whimsical and imaginative.
00:49:11
Speaker
And just anything you can imagine in a world is there. So I loved the snails. Bring the snails back is what There's a lot of adventure time in this game. There's a lot of Terry Pratchett in this game. Yeah, there is. um If you sort of...
00:49:27
Speaker
if you sort of merge those with the humor of Disco Elysium, if you merge the humor of all three of those things and the imagination of all three of those things, I think you you do get something really close to this game.
00:49:40
Speaker
Yeah, and the the humor is just it's right up my alley. Anytime. It's smart and dumb. and Okay, sorry, go ahead. Oh, no, I was going to say just anytime. So our our character, who's a cleric, he's a little, like...
00:49:57
Speaker
He's a little bumbling. He's also like you can play it ah in most RPGs. You can play your character a certain way. I liked playing my character enthusiastically instead of stoically.
00:50:09
Speaker
So, you know, when you're talking to people, you get dialogue options and that kind of guides what your character is like and how they talk. I was always like, if somebody, you have a quest for me?
00:50:21
Speaker
I love quests. I love, what do you mean you don't have a quest? Is that a quest? yeah I got an achievement for it actually. because For asking people for quests?
00:50:31
Speaker
Yeah. and i So I liked playing my character very enthusiastically. um I still was very serious about like the politics within it and trying to help people and sympathize with their their cause. But also, I'm just like, Quest? Quest? I like Quests. And that's the adventure gamer in me, right? Most of the time in this game, you
00:50:56
Speaker
you you you shouldn't necessarily always pick the best option. Correct. Yes. I think it is far more fun to play this game to pick the most interesting option. And the game tells you this in the game, right? Doesn't it say something early on?
00:51:12
Speaker
i is There's some... I'm trying to think of where and how, but there's some part of, I think, the tutorial that tells you to pick the most interesting option. Or maybe it's like hidden...
00:51:25
Speaker
in dialogue that it's clear that they're talking to the player. I i honestly can't remember. yeah but But, ah yeah, this game is super funny. So even though we're talking about some of the serious stuff now, it's important to keep that in mind. um Can we talk about some of the storyline? Because that's going to align with these...
00:51:46
Speaker
Like, these classes that we're talking about. All right, then I'll i'll go through the other classes yeah pretty
Gameplay Mechanics and Narrative Exploration
00:51:51
Speaker
quickly then. um So then the the next one that's easy to understand, yeah, is your... The wizard... The intelligence aligns with the wizard, and that aligns with the arcanist. So, the yeah, this world was ruled by snails. ah Beautiful.
00:52:06
Speaker
And then it's been ruled by, like, a... um um um It's a mageocracy. It's about... um Upper class rule. It's about... our ah you know it's like a It's another kind of... You could, you can I think, accurately call this fascism too. It is about the...
00:52:26
Speaker
it is about the elites having, it's about demolishing democracy and letting the elites control um this world. though Like the the wizards are and on top. and sometimes that sounds appealing, but then you realize that everyone's a dick and they're just gonna fuck it up. Yes, but they make the same point. Some people in this game make the same point about democracy, which is not unfair. um And then the last one,
00:52:57
Speaker
This is the one I know kind of the least about. It's constitution. That's your health. That's aligned with the um the ah the barbarian barbarian. Yeah.
00:53:10
Speaker
And I think this is the agrarian party. Okay. I feel like that wasn't touched on as much as some of these other parties that we were kind of involved in. Agreed. This is this is like the the the the rural farm oh right party. And it's like, it's in the game, pretty much any time there's any talk of the agrarians, it's subsumed by talk of the Asgalists. So I don't know.
00:53:44
Speaker
i don't know. I'm trying to think of. Is that also like, i did because there was talk in this game about like the farmers and like the agriculturists. Is that aligned with the barbarians? Yes, and I can't i can't think of like who in the game was an agrarian. Right. And like I can't even think of very many agrarian choices I could have made. I can't either. I pulled it up on my Steam Deck just to to see, and have...
00:54:13
Speaker
i have Zero points. Right. I answered zero questions within agrarian point view. Because I feel like in the game, when that was brought up, I have very clear memory of the cleric being like, yeah, I wish we could bring those back, the agriculture. It seems like it's more of an obsolete class. Yes.
00:54:35
Speaker
Right. i I don't know. I will want to play this game again. So maybe I'll like look for it. And then your last one is charisma, which is apolitical. And it's just you want to get along with everybody. yeah ah You don't have to do shit if you don't want Right. that's ah that's aligned with the what what class is that?
00:54:54
Speaker
I don't know if it is. I just think i think it is just... it's on the It's on the table, but I can't... I don't know what class that is. Okay. Anyway. never did that. I rarely was mutual about anything. There might have been like one question where I was like, I don't know. i have won yeah I've won a political...
00:55:15
Speaker
I have one point in apolitical. i don't know i don't know i don't know when I answered something apolitically, but i have one point in apolitical. um Because you can you can go into your... You can open up like your quest map at any point, and you can kind of see who you...
00:55:35
Speaker
how many times you behaved like a rogue versus barbarian versus wizard and how many times you answered for the Ascalists versus the, yeah. Cause you don't know, it doesn't always tell you exactly who you're.
00:55:48
Speaker
So sometimes you're just saying kind of what you believe right in a situation and then you've just aligned. And same thing happened to Disco Elysium. And when we're talking about classes here, you are always a cleric.
00:56:04
Speaker
Yes. But you can go around telling people you're something else. you Which I did, and I found it so funny. Every time, I'm like, actually, I'm more of a rogue. A real sneaky type. Exactly. I told everybody I was a rogue all the time. so or I would say I'm the cleric, because I also found that vaguely funny. so The cleric was funny. it is funny.
00:56:35
Speaker
Yeah, as I'm looking around, like i'm I'm like Googling and I can't, I don't, I don't think there, maybe you're you're right. Maybe there is not a class associated with charisma. Yeah, I don't think there is. I think that is just simply like apolitical. Why is there a bar for it on the class side then? I don't get it. How do I fill that up? I'm going to do, going to play, ah I'm going to play a version of this game where I just use charisma and constitution constantly and see if we can find some of these things.
00:57:03
Speaker
Um, Yeah, and some of the characters that are purple are like the weird alligator that hangs out in the sewers. Kraid! I love him. And eats.
00:57:16
Speaker
He makes friends with rats, and he eats, what were they called? Slog dogs. Slog dogs!
00:57:24
Speaker
um All right, so now we can, let's, yeah, I think, why don't you start walking people through? So now you kind of understand what this world looks like a little bit. Yeah. You're a cleric. You get your you know get your stat sheet, distribute them you know kind of how you want to. um And then you wake up in this weird, it's called like a lich house. Am I pronouncing that right, by the way, lich?
00:57:49
Speaker
Yes. Okay. um It's actually quite hilarious. ah You wake up in almost a morgue and it's filled with apples. There's apples everywhere. In fact, the first thing I tried to do, and I'm i'm pretty inexperienced with D&D, so I want you to imagine the, because you know how like animated and reactive I can be. The glee that I had when I was like, I want to eat through this mound of apples. Oh, yeah. And rolled for it. I'm like, this is the best game I've ever played. I ate five and then he got sick. It didn't work. Yeah. Yeah. this Just the fact that I could do that. And that was that was actually the first dice roll that I had, so I could see what kind of mechanic that we're dealing with here.
00:58:36
Speaker
um So you wake up there, and that's kind of where your quest begins. You go upstairs, and you can talk to, oh gosh, I forget his name. Oh, Viskin. You can talk to a character named Viskin, who is very strange. yeah And you will um you will reveal that you have been brought here to um to essentially investigate an explosion that happened in the tea house and in in a town called Tolstad.
00:59:07
Speaker
um It's very cool, right? They give you kind of a mystery to look into. and Yes. You have to go around, like inter it not interrogating, but you question people. You ask, hey, where were you? What did you see? ah Did you see any witnesses? Who were you voting for in the upcoming election? Who were you voting was is It is tied together, as we all know that these kind of things can be tied to political motivation. And so, yeah, a tea house or tea shop. Sorry, not a tea house. A tea shop has exploded Tolstead and we are there to investigate it. Why yeah did this happen? Was it arson? um Because it it was is like it exploded, but it was like set on fire. It burned down, essentially. Yeah.
00:59:49
Speaker
And there will as far as anybody knows, there was no casualties. Nobody was in T-Shop. far as we know, yeah, there's no casualties. And so our this is just great already. It's like I'm giving ah given a quest already.
01:00:01
Speaker
It's a mystery. And like I'm on it. and And then from there, you can kind of you can play this non-linearly if you want to. i'm I'm sure I did because I don't know what the fuck I'm doing. It always takes me a day to like understand what I'm doing in an RPG type of a game. ah But yeah, you you follow leads based on information you get from people you talk to ah around Tolstad.
01:00:27
Speaker
And the map kind of grows as you get leads, as you get you you find different places to explore and loot and and find people to talk to. uh the main town is called tolstad but there's also something called the city below which is kind of like the catacombs um it's very much like dungeon crawlery i spent a lot of time there um there's another town called water lane um i really like this map like a hell of a lot uh yes i got lost because i think that's just a me problem um but i got lost a bunch too oh By the end, I wasn't getting lost anymore. But at the beginning, I was like, yeah, the first half of the game, probably I just kept getting lost.
01:01:11
Speaker
I would say that this has a little bit of a a learning curve in that ah so the way I play these games is I just play them until I understand the mechanic because I find it difficult when a game is giving me all these instructions. I'm like, i don't I'm a hands-on person. I don't get what you're telling me. I have no clue what you're telling me right now. So I did spend like my first time playing this just playing it.
01:01:38
Speaker
So I could understand the mechanic and how casting spells work and how the dice rolls work. And and so if you want to hear something really funny. Yes. I didn't know that you could use the shard of Jor for any reason whatsoever. but yeah So you can that's me collect these things around the, around the world called the shards of Jor and you can use them to re try a a dice There are some dice rolls that are situational and you can't.
01:02:07
Speaker
You can only try them once and then they're gone. And there's some other dice rolls that it's like... ah they'll they'll sit there You can try it as many times as you want, but you had it not until after you have taken a Right, yes. Or...
01:02:25
Speaker
right yes or You can use a shard of Jor to do it immediately. to like unlock it. So let's say you fail the dice roll. Let's say I'm trying to loot someone and I need a roll of 10 or above. I get like an eight. I failed. It's locked now. And you can either wait for it to unlock or you can use a shard of Jor to unlock it right away and try it again.
01:02:45
Speaker
do you know how many shards I have? Because I didn't use any of them. I used none of them. I didn't know. That's so funny. So that's me. That's how I play these these types these types of games. So um the other thing that's happening at this time is there's an election that's about to occur. There's a there's a there's not...
01:03:05
Speaker
i This is something I'm not 100% clear on, um but I think there's not often elections. Elections are rare. um But they're ah the person in charge is, I don't know, like...
01:03:23
Speaker
retiring I don't this this was a little it was a little hard for me and I didn't start to put that together until actually the very end but I'm assuming that election day that these things align and in that you have to figure out the mystery that you're presented before election election day because you really early on recognize that this has something to do with the election you have no idea what but This has something to do with the political forces in this world, the Freestriders, the Ascalists. The struggle between the Freestriders and the Ascalists, who are the two most popular political parties. and i sympathize with those parties, I think, the most out of all the parties.
01:04:05
Speaker
Yes, I found myself ah ah pretty much always siding with the Asgallists, but saying some Free Strider sympathetic things here and there. Yeah, because you can kind of understand their plight when you talk to the Free Striders. I also asked a Free Strider out, and she said yes. Yeah, so i I got a date with that Free Strider, but it it required some some difficulty checks. Yeah. And then her her friend, there's a bugbear in the oh yeah in the the city below. i couldn't prove myself to her. i she didn't want to go on a date. I asked her on a date. She doesn't go. She says, you ask her out to dinner or whatever. And she says no.
01:04:50
Speaker
And then she's like, but... come down after the election and we'll spar and you're like oh it's a date and she's like well no it's not and you're like i got and you turn to Snell Snell is a goblin who you get paid we'll we'll talk about this in a second you get paired up with he's the Kim Kitsuragi of this game yes yes I love giving Snell a fucking hard time And you kind of turn to Snell and you're like, I got that. Like you, you, you you basically like elbow him. Like I got the date. date Got it.
01:05:21
Speaker
Nailed it. So,
01:05:25
Speaker
it's it's It's hard to not talk about the similarities to Disco Elysium here because in Disco Elysium, again, you have a mystery that you have to solve that turns out to have something to do with, you have to understand the broader political spheres of that world, the small little world to, the i well, big world, small area.
01:05:46
Speaker
Right. In which to experience this whole huge world. Right. Just like one little piece of a city. Mm-hmm. and you have one of the factions, one of the political factions here, in this case, the goblins,
01:06:06
Speaker
um
01:06:09
Speaker
have a vested interest in seeing you solve this case. Yes. You don't exactly know what that interest is. Right. And the goblins, are they're they're called the halfway bridge tribe, and they seem to be...
01:06:24
Speaker
really tied to all of the trade interests in the city. Yeah. Um... But they have some they they have a really strong interest in seeing this solved as does, as do the Arcanists, who are the state who you work for.
01:06:42
Speaker
Yeah. um So you get a little Kim Kitaragi. You get a little goblin that follows you around and constantly is like, what the person fuck are you doing? The person that gives you kind of this T-quest is a goblin. Her name is Lady Sageleaf.
01:06:56
Speaker
Is it Sageleaf? But you... Yes, it's Sage Leaf, but you kind of have... That's interesting, because you do kind of have this quest before you meet Lady Sage Leaf. Okay, she's just deeply involved. Yes, yes. When you go talk to her in the Goblin Garden, so cute and so amazing. Yeah. um she really wants us to keep her apprised on the tea shop investigation she seems really involved she gives us a you know a party member snow who was fucking great he wouldn't let me do anything stupid i i gave him such a hard time i'm like dude i'm gonna jump into this well like i was gonna say you tried to jump down the well yeah yeah he's like no did you ever get down the well no i didn't
01:07:41
Speaker
Actually, i knew that because you told me you there's a character you've never met. Yes. got to go back a little bit because I do want to see some of the things that I missed. There's a secret to getting down the well that you just have to talk to a character. There's a character who will just tell you about it, but.
01:07:59
Speaker
That's awesome. Yes, I was giving Snell such a hard time. He's like, what? No, don't jump. I'm there. I'm like, but I could have. I could done it, Snell. There's also just, you have so many quests. There's a bunch of other mysteries that you encounter. there's and And some of them are hilarious and just stupid and funny. For example, one of the quests that I got that I think you didn't get was to sell milk.
01:08:24
Speaker
Yeah, i didn't I don't know what that one is, but I want that. I'm gonna i'm definitely going. this This is a game that has save slots. Thank you so much for save slots. um So I will go back before, you know, end game, before Election Day. And I will try to get these quests that I didn't get.
01:08:42
Speaker
So one of. Yeah, you talk There's a. um a Would you consider it a spoiler if I tell you who gives you the milk quest? No, I don't. okay No, personally, no. So there's like a there's like a kobold at the very beginning of the game who's a real weirdo. And he's Viscan's kind of like he gives you the quest guard. And he's so weird. You can talk to him at the beginning. You can get into a staring contest with him. I love him. He's adorable.
01:09:08
Speaker
Yeah. um You can steal his crossbow, which I didn't do because I thought he was too cute. I did. I stole his crossbow. like one of the first things I did. Well, I tried to eat all the apples. Then I tried to fight the zombie. Then I stole the crossbow. I do love that the game acknowledges kind of the cuteness of some of these D&D inspired characters because you can tell I'm like, you are so cute. You are such an adorable creature.
01:09:38
Speaker
ot um oost here and ah you can also, you find out that he's got a like a little scam where he goes around selling milk.
01:09:50
Speaker
I did And you convince him. You can convince him a little later in the game to giving you the milk and allowing you to try and get people to buy the milk. And he tells you, you're going to want to find a rich human because this milk is $20,000. And
01:10:09
Speaker
and you have to pay me back. You have to pay me back for all this milk. And. so funny and So for the rest of the game, I was, anytime I met a human, I was asking them if they wanted to buy milk. At some point. 20,000 crowns.
01:10:24
Speaker
Yes. At some point I meet a God and I ask the God if he wants to buy milk. Like is this, it's so funny. It's similar to, you can ask everybody who they're voting for, including at one point I woke up an ancient snail who's been dead or in stasis for yeah like 10,000 years or something like that. And I wake him up.
01:10:49
Speaker
And i can ask him basically immediately, who are you voting for the upcoming election? I felt so bad for that character because he doesn't know what the fuck is going on.
01:11:00
Speaker
I asked a crab. i asked a wall. I asked a sphinx. i asked i asked. I loved talking to the walls. I asked a cat. I asked everything who they're voting for in the election. And it's so, it's just so funny. You want to hear something like super funny? I went to the, how do you pronounce this? Asgalite?
01:11:22
Speaker
Is that how you pronounce that? Asgalite? The... The workers. The workers of the Asgalist. I say Asgalist, but it might be Asgalite. Oh, Asgalist. Okay. I went, I found like their little like point of like their little business, like they're where they operate out of. Yes. And like, it's very clear by this point in the game who they're voting for.
01:11:43
Speaker
And so I asked one of the characters, her name is Modissa. I'm like, so who are you voting for? And her response was like, are you are you kidding kidding me? Exactly. She tells you she's voting for the agrarians and you can you can believe her. And she just like shakes her head at you.
01:12:03
Speaker
Because this is the thing. You are a bumbling idiot. this You live with, your you're a cleric who lives with his mom. who has Who is a virgin, canonically.
01:12:17
Speaker
Yeah. He has never... he He is horrible at talking to women. And every time you meet a woman in this game, he tri he there is an option to flirt with them. Like, he tries to romance them. And generally, you can fail so bad at flirting that you die.
01:12:33
Speaker
You can die of embarrassment yes in this game, which I think is very funny. I think there was there was kind of similar mechanic in Disco. That's my first death. Yes. Yeah. um Yeah.
01:12:47
Speaker
You know what I like about that, though, about the him, his interest in women? He only likes extremely strong, non-conventional looking women. And I'm like, I like that because I was I was flirting with like ah a more in this within this world. Right. A more conventionally attractive a female character at a bar.
01:13:07
Speaker
And my my character is like, ah I'm not really, I'm not interested in that. I like strong women. Yeah, he he expresses kind of disgust if you try to go that route. He wants somebody to beat him the fuck up. It's very funny.
01:13:21
Speaker
you can And in that same bar, you can flirt with an ancient sphinx. Yeah, she did not appreciate that. For at least. you have to pass a DC 30 charisma check to flirt with the Sphinx. And that is, impossible the game tells you that is that is that is godlike. yeah you would You have to have a godlike amount of skill to pass anything over 20. eventually i saved my game and I used all my shards and I put on all my charisma modifying objects. wow And I flirted with her. Like, it took me like six or seven times. That's funny.
01:14:03
Speaker
And it's, it is very funny. Everything you fucking do in this game is funny. I think we should talk about the other party members because you get you can get two more. yuva I should say this, you do not have to equip them. You don't even have to keep Snell in your party. You can actually send him home. I don't recommend that.
01:14:23
Speaker
I think it's better with the party members and you have a better time fighting if you run into enemies. um But one party member, I quote party member because they kind of stay in your inventory,
01:14:36
Speaker
ah is just the cutest thing I've ever seen in my life. You get to equip a mimic. Yes! Who looks like like your tunic. He like looks like a little scarf. And he's like a little puppy dog. And he's just so happy to have like a new master because we treat him better than the last master. and i just love it. I loved having this mimic in my in-story. He helps you with...
01:15:02
Speaker
He helps you um basically with traps. Like if you're in a dangerous situation, he will warn you of dangers coming up ah and he'll give you advice. Some of it bad, but he's he's great. His name's Meek. Meek, he's so Oh my gosh, he's so cute. I was so thrilled. It reminded me of having like Rotten Tomato in my inventory from King's Quest VI. I don't know if you recall that. Yes, I do. yeah and You can talk to him in your inventory.
01:15:31
Speaker
Although Rotten Tomato was very grumpy. Meek is not... Meek is so excited to be joining you. so excited to just be alive. And then the other party member, one of my favorite characters that I really wanted to flirt with but just didn't want to mess up the mechanic and I didn't know about the Shards of Jor, is Atir, who is an angel, essentially. She is like an angelic, very ancient character. She's a celestial, yeah. Yeah. She's so cool.
01:15:59
Speaker
I love... She's cool, and this is the one person that aside from just flirting with, um aside from just getting horned up by, yeah the cleric seems to maybe have feelings for. I think so too. I think the cleric likes a tear a lot. Yeah. Cause there's, when you very early on, you can look at her and he's like, you will protect her.
01:16:24
Speaker
Yes. Like protect her. He had a love at first sight thing going on. And you, I think you can flirt with her. You can, but you don't push it the way you do with other characters. Right. And yeah,
01:16:39
Speaker
And it keeps coming back in small ways. So I think there is like a, i don't think you're, both of us stopped this game after we faced the final conflict in kind of like the epilogue on election day, where you can go around and talk to every character who you've already encountered and just kind of like wrap things up with. It's kind of fun. I love that. Same. And i i did I wanted to take my time with it. So i didn't want to rush it. So I saved it there. um i don't think at the very end of this game, you were going to have a romantic connection with here.
01:17:12
Speaker
Probably but not. I do think that that is part of like, that is like an undercurrent in yeah the cleric's psychology. I agree. And, and big and I think maybe also because she is a party member,
01:17:25
Speaker
um Like historically you don't really romance your party members in other CRPGs. um Huh. i don't I can't really recall one where I did that. like But then again, CRPG, maybe you wouldn't have as many people in your party as you would D&D game in person. Because at one given time, I only had three other party members. And that was Snell, Meek, and Atir. And Atir only joins you for the catacombs, for the city below, for the very, very, very dangerous parts of this world.
01:18:00
Speaker
I think in a D&D game in person, you shouldn't romance your fellow party members. That's probably a bad idea. Let's honest. um But ah I think like Baldur's Gate is well known for you can romance your party members. Okay, And there I think like ah Mass Effect and those those kind of like, um what's the Star Wars one that's kind of like Mass Effect?
01:18:24
Speaker
Knights of the Old Republic? Yeah, Knights of the Old Republic. Yeah, those are games you can usually like you sort of choose at some point who who of your party you want to romance. Right. um But so it's not uncommon in CRPGs. We did talk about this before because you were it will avoid tell people what this game reminded you of.
01:18:47
Speaker
No. and No, I don't. It's not embarrassing. And i i wanted to i think it's interesting to talk about. Okay. I think for me, and maybe my experience is a little limited, but I was i was getting a lot of Quest for Glory 5 vibes.
Influence and Nature of Narrative-Heavy Games
01:19:01
Speaker
Right. Like all the time. like Especially in terms of like I'm in this this city, this world that's alive and people are moving and doing things and there's merchants and there's...
01:19:14
Speaker
interesting characters that are non-human. And even like some of the music, I almost felt like, oh, that's like identical. Not identical. You know what I mean? But very... Sure, sure, sure. It's very similar to some of the Silmaria town ah music. And yeah, i and and obviously when I played Quest for Glory 5, I played a a thief.
01:19:36
Speaker
I fucking looted everyone. And that's how I played it here too. So yeah very basic vibes, right? But no, yeah, I just... Maybe because there was a similar mythology vibe there. There's humor in both. Yeah, there's humor. I think i think what's interesting is, yeah, like I think you don't play that many RPGs. I don't. and So maybe I don't have a point of reference. But do you think? Here's a Right, so it's kind of like you get – which is an interesting perspective to look at it through. If you're not a person who's played a lot of RPGs, to be like –
01:20:12
Speaker
to looking at a game like this through a more limited yeah set of experience i think a lot of jrpgs and those don't align those are yes very different um and do you think you don't still have this opinion if i played more do you think do you do you think there's merit in saying hey i see the similarities between some of the tropes of quest for a quest for glory versus esoteric eb I don't think it would have sprung to mind. Right. Like I think and maybe there are moments like, especially like when you say about the the song that's similar um and there may be moments that might remind you of it. And then, but I think the comparison that you would draw,
01:20:53
Speaker
um i think would be, i think you'd go to set say Baldur's Gate, maybe Divinity Original Sin. the thing. Yeah. The thing that. and didn I didn't know Divinity. I felt it was like super tedious.
01:21:07
Speaker
And supposedly Planescape. Yeah, I felt that way about Divinity Original Sin yeah also. um And same like Planescape. When remember, listeners might remember when we had Francisco Gonzalez on to talk about Disco Elysium, he recommended that we play Planescape Torment because it is a non-combat focused game.
01:21:31
Speaker
RPG that was a strong influence on Disco Elysium. Yeah, i mean, that's a classic. I i remember being on like Home of the Underdogs and there was some overlap between like Planescape because there were some adventure elements to it because it was such a strong narrative. I remember seeing it, but I never never did anything about it at the time. But yeah, it's a huge influence on especially CRPGs. Yeah, and it's a big influence here too, I think. Yeah. and So there's a game that came out in 2021 from World Walker Games. It's called Wildermyth that I think I want to go – now having played this, I want to go back and check out. It doesn't have –
01:22:18
Speaker
So this, like Disco Elysium, almost everything occurs in dialogue. Like you can walk around and point and click to interact with your environment, but all of those bring up dialogues. And then even any interaction you have is based on choices from a dialogue, either dialogue with another character or dialogue with yourself.
01:22:38
Speaker
um That's not the case. too long-winded? Oh, yeah. Okay. I'm glad we're on the same page because, yeah, i I understand this is a narrative game. I get it.
01:22:50
Speaker
I did feel like there was a lot of dialogue. And this goes like that, too. But for some reason, felt like there was more here and that it started it started wearing on me a little bit. this always frustrates me because I wish I...
01:23:08
Speaker
Were. It makes me feel. it makes me really feel like my ADHD. It makes me feel. You know how ADHD can make people feel dumb. Yes. i When this happens to me. I feel like a dumb guy. So.
01:23:24
Speaker
As I was playing this game, I was like, I wish I had the patience to not feel like this is overwhelming. I don't feel i don't feel like this is too much. like Honestly, I don't feel like this is too much dialogue.
01:23:36
Speaker
I feel like I am being impatient about it. I don't feel that way. I don't have ADHD, and I felt that it was it was wearing on me a little bit. And that that tends to happen when I find things are starting to sound redundant. I'm a very concise writer. i work That was my style when I studied fiction writing. I like very terse, like concise things. okay This is not that. This is extremely like we're going to hear about – an event a million times over. So when it starts to get redundant like that, that's when it starts wearing on me. Okay. That's, that's fair. um
01:24:17
Speaker
But I, I, I loved the, I guess what I'm trying to say is I loved the writing in this game so much yeah that me having the feeling this is too much writing seemed like,
01:24:34
Speaker
But I love this writing so much. why Why am I not wanting just more and more of it? why like i wish I wish I had more patience with it. And i was just taking my time and letting myself just love every moment of it. But you're right. I think I kind of understand where some of that impatience is coming from, though. I don't know if you feel like how I feel, but i in my brain, as I'm going through a long dialogue, there is this excitement behind it that something cool is going happen after this dialogue. and Sure. Yeah, I think I like preempt that, and then I get a little impatient with it.
01:25:11
Speaker
Sure. i think that's what's happening to me, too, is like, oh, what's what's the cool thing? What's the cool thing? And then I get impatient. Yeah. i Yeah, so I really wish that I could get that under control, and I wish I could have just like sat back and just read everything as if I was reading a good book yeah and enjoyed it.
01:25:32
Speaker
And i don't know, maybe maybe sometime in my like maybe the next time i approach this I will talk to myself. Like the next time I play this game, I'm going to play this game again at some point. Yeah, same. Maybe the next time I play this game, I'm going just like sit myself down and and talk to myself, right? And be like, listen, you love the writing in this game. You're going to love every moment of this game. You do not have to rush through it. You do not have to...
01:25:57
Speaker
You do not have to be we're like worried or overly excited about what comes next. Just like be zen about it. Enjoy every moment. And then maybe like i will enjoy maybe I'll enjoy this game even more. Because that's that's what I wanted to feel the entire time I was playing.
01:26:14
Speaker
You know, i this is not the first time I've struggled with a mechanic like this. I struggled a little bit in Disco as well. Same. And I wonder if it's because... I'm not, I think I'm i'm kind of, that's right what you're saying is resonating with me is I don't think I'm looking at it like a book. I think yeah that I'm not taking the dialogue as a game mechanic as seriously as I need to, as that this is an important part. And it's just as important as other events that that happen in the game. I think I'm struggling with that. The thing that makes games addictive is it working on me here, right? Like where I'm like, oh, I want to increase my stats. Oh, I want to succeed at checks. Oh, I want to get cool items. And I want to so i want to solve my quests. yeah And i think I think I need to, when I play a game like this, I think I need to...
01:27:08
Speaker
Again, sit back and say to myself, like, look, this is a book you're reading. it It is a this is a piece of work that every every part of it is worthwhile and just like enjoy it because there's there's these really word heavy games that.
01:27:29
Speaker
that I have had on my kind of like two playlist for a while. Like I was a teenage exocolonist or the life and suffering of Sir Bronte. Yeah. Road Warden ah that i that I dug up after playing Heaven's Vault, which was also very wordy and Disco Elysium.
01:27:50
Speaker
And I was like, I love these and I want to play so many more. But yeah, there's this impatience in me that wants to just do game stuff. Same. i think that's I think that's an interesting thing to struggle with as gamers because it's like, we like in general, we love interactive fiction. We love narrative heavy games. But sometimes we don't always take it seriously as a mechanic, as part of the gameplay. Right.
01:28:16
Speaker
You know? So yeah, I get a little impatient reading things because in my brain, game equals I got do stuff. And that that is doing something. It's reading. Right. But it's hard for me to, like like you said, it's hard for me to hunker down and just be chill and just enjoy it like a book.
01:28:34
Speaker
Yeah, absolutely. um But anyway, so this game made me think of Wildermyth, which is more, which is a very storytelling based game and it is very, your your choices. So in your choices change the narrative and it is like you're working with a dungeon master, which sometimes this game feels like that. Right.
01:28:57
Speaker
um But to talk about the linear or branching nature of Esoteric Ab, I think your story is going to generally be the same. Almost just like Disco Elysium, almost every major event is going to happen to every person who plays the game. Yeah.
01:29:13
Speaker
Your choices will affect, say, um will affect small things. Your relationships with people, your... um Relationships to yourself, I guess. The yeah items that you're holding.
01:29:28
Speaker
um
01:29:31
Speaker
Basically, it'll give you different dialogue and options at times. But all the events themselves will be almost identical. Yes. Except for some major differences where it's like there's sometimes you can avoid in it a conflict entirely.
01:29:50
Speaker
Because... you have the right information or you have the right skill set to deescalate. Right. um Notably, and we are going to have to, there there will be a so ah short little, I think like five minute spoiler section here where we talk about the very
Narrative Paths and Spoiler Discussion
01:30:09
Speaker
end because we were talking about this just before we recorded um the end of the game. Me and you got very different ideas.
01:30:19
Speaker
Me and you had very different final encounters. Yeah. And as a result, I think both of me and you think different things about um the an antagonist of this game, who I think you would call the villain of this game, and I would just simply call the antagonist. Right. Yeah.
01:30:38
Speaker
what else do we want to say about this game? This game, you should play it. If you're listening to this, you should play Like, I think this is one of those, just like Disco Elysium, I think everybody will like this game. i Like. Yeah. um Yeah.
01:30:52
Speaker
I was just so delighted. i get such a delight from games like this, from like yeah the fantasy element and quirky characters. So many quirky characters. There's not a shortage of that.
01:31:05
Speaker
It's smart. It's political. It's fun. It's stupid. It's silly. It's ah exciting. It's so fucking funny. It's colorful and bright. It is very colorful. Yes, I clocked that. I really love the aesthetic choice for this game.
01:31:26
Speaker
That's... what brings the adventure time sort of comparison up in my head. um that and some of the absurdist humor, but yeah, this game rules. You should play it.
01:31:42
Speaker
We haven't, if in case we haven't mentioned the the name in a while, it's esoteric ebb. Yeah. I guess also in the title of the fucking show. It's a, don't worry. they know They know. They know. Um, and it's, it's, it's, it's really great. Uh,
01:31:58
Speaker
Do we want to do a quick spoiler section and talk about our endings? Sure. Let's do a quick spoiler. Spoiler alert, everybody. Spoiler alert. i We'll give you... We'll talk about something stupid in the game just to give you give you a ah minute or so to jump ahead.
01:32:15
Speaker
Did you collect all the rats? No, I couldn't find them. I found two. So sad. i got I did get them all. You don't... One of them...
01:32:27
Speaker
Does take a while to get. Really? ah But I did get all the rats. And it's so funny. I didn't even put together all of them are different colors. And the colors. Yeah. They're different colors.
01:32:38
Speaker
Are the stats and political parties. And every rat represents a different political party. And you can talk to them. Or when you when they talk to each other, if you have speak with animals, you hear a political debate between them. That is adorable. Oh, my God. That's so Discworld. I love it.
01:32:56
Speaker
It's so funny. All right. We're in spoilers. Yes. We're in spoilers. So the person responsible for all of this is a missing paladin named Gorm.
01:33:10
Speaker
Yes. um And that missing paladin presents as kind of a separate quest a little bit within your game. It's one of those things where you've got to find the missing paladin because you'll get ah shortly you'll get a reward and you'll be renowned.
01:33:24
Speaker
um In fact, by the end of the game, I thought I had just missed that quest entirely. And you revere this guy. Yeah. Whenever he comes up. you think he's the greatest.
01:33:37
Speaker
Yeah. um But, turns out he he knows a secret about the, he knows a secret about the government that makes him want to bring it all down and bring back the god Earth. Right.
01:33:58
Speaker
Now, in my, so you you end up traveling like into the esoteric realm realm and you confront gorm and he is trying to kill a bunch of people to bring back earth and yeah you can join him i guess you can maybe i didn't but you can maybe it stops you at some point but it seems as if you can join him or you can fight him which you did right I did that because I failed my dice rolls for other things.
01:34:38
Speaker
um And so I just kind of let it, I wanted to keep going, essentially. I didn't want to re redo this. So I let some of my dice rolls fail. And then at the end, that's all I had left.
01:34:50
Speaker
Like I couldn't talk intelligently to him. I had to kind of fight him. So I talked to him about his... um oaths that he took to Earth and about how I so i was really harsh with him and talked to him about how he is betraying those oaths because I try oh i know what happened Matt I tried to arrest him tried to be like hey you broke your promise to being a paladin which I thought was a very fair thing to say and I said I'm going to have to arrest you and then he instigated the fight and I didn't have much of a choice after that
01:35:28
Speaker
I had an option to, i had a strength option. It was a really high difficulty check, I think. or It was lowered a lot by some of the dialogue choices I took with him. um But it was a high difficulty check, and I had an option to convince him that he's broken his oath. And you talk him through it, and you're like, this is what Earth stands for.
01:35:51
Speaker
And you think you're being helpful here. But you're being a dick. And he. Earth would hate you for this. And i understand. That you think you are taking on this burden. To become the bad guy. The villain.
01:36:08
Speaker
So that. you can like the ends justify the means. And like, he he thought he was sacrificing himself too, for the greater good. Right. I'm going to take on this evil.
01:36:21
Speaker
Yeah. Because 27 people will die, but it'll save dozens, which, or save thousands or millions or who however, which is what earth did when he was alive with the goblins. He killed many, many goblins. Right.
01:36:35
Speaker
To keep his people alive. And, But you can convince him, no, you're not making the sacrifice because you're going to be dead.
01:36:46
Speaker
You are putting that sacrifice on earth. You're God. You're making him come back and have to answer for the horrible thing you did in front of everybody. And he realizes he fucked up and he takes his cool fire sword and he jabs it through his chest.
01:37:03
Speaker
Damn. Damn. And so that's why when Earth earth talks to me and says, um he wasn't an evil guy. He was doing something evil because he was trying to. His goals were pure. and not Yeah, i got so I got some of that dialogue too. Not all people who do evil are evil.
01:37:26
Speaker
Right. um And so i so I felt very sympathetic towards him. But I imagine if he attacked you, He attacked me. Yeah. That that would that change the gameplay entirely. What was this final? I mean, I'm going to do the fight to what how was this final conflict?
01:37:43
Speaker
Extremely difficult.
01:37:47
Speaker
Like i I am shocked. That I had good dice rolls. Like eventually your party members come in and they help you like a Snell and a Tear find you. Yes. It's pretty intense though.
01:38:01
Speaker
They find me. Okay. When I did mine, they find, found me after he was dead. Okay. No, he, they had, they had to help me. So they rush in. They finally find you yeah while you're in the middle of your fight. That's so cool.
01:38:15
Speaker
Yeah, yeah. No, it was great. it was It was really intense. And it did, the game did kind of yes, it was it was making him to be a little sympathetic, but also he clearly was like acting like a cult leader a little bit. Like he was acting off, right? I did not really want to fight him.
01:38:35
Speaker
But again, i made a decision early on that dictated that that was going to happen regardless. Okay. And I just didn't want to go through stuff again. yeah I didn't want to go through dialogue again. But now I'm going to retry it.
01:38:48
Speaker
um There's another character that you can, that that that I ended up killing that I didn't want to kill. I wanted to work it out, but couldn't figure it out. Who is this?
01:39:00
Speaker
The troll. Oh, yeah. No, I killed the troll. Damn it. I really, I thought there was a chance that we didn't have to, but yeah. Did you unmask the assassin?
01:39:11
Speaker
sir Okay. Yeah, I did. I loved that. Okay. I loved ah the assassin plot line, which again reminds me of Quest for Glory 5 because there is also an assassin plot line in there. Oh, yeah, true. what are similar What are some other, quick, what are some other spoiler things that we should ask each other if it happened to us? did Oh, did you get the deck of many things?
01:39:32
Speaker
No. So you didn't solve the Sphinx's big riddle. The thing where she's like, it's not an answer, it's an action. Yes. i Yeah, i didn't I didn't figure that out. I had to look it up. It's the only thing in this whole game I looked it up. Fair. I looked up, I think, like two things, and one of them was embarrassing. I had just missed a location. um Who are you voting for?
01:39:57
Speaker
The Azgalists. Yeah, me too. Yeah. right, is there anything else that we... I don't, there's so, there's, yes, yes, but nothing I think that we want to put in this conversation. There's so much more about this game that rules and that I would, this, this is just, it's just a great game. We'll, we'll, we'll talk about this slow so we can give people time to rejoin after the spoiler, but it's just so good. It's just such a great game.
01:40:27
Speaker
Yeah. I was delighted. i was delighted the whole time. I really had such a fun time and I still want to go back and load a previous thing so that I can find it. I have ah a couple loose ends. I got a couple loose ends I got to tie up. i am going to walk around the election and talk to everybody. Yeah. And just take my time with it. and I think I'm going to wait a little but while and then start over and see what other stuff I can discover. um
01:41:00
Speaker
But also it's making me want to, like I said, it's making me want to play some of these other RPGs that I just didn't have like enough patience for. Yeah, true. um Yeah, i
01:41:15
Speaker
I hate to say it already, But there's no way we don't talk about this game again at the end of the year, right? i agree. i will Yes. Yes. I think it will come back. I can imagine that it won't, right?
01:41:30
Speaker
It's probably my number one right now. Oh, yeah. Yeah. But remember, we still have a postmodern games game to play. That's true. Yeah, that's true. And I do like them.
01:41:44
Speaker
and a perfect And a perfect tides. And... Paradise falls will be on it. No, I'm kidding. Oh, here's a game. Here's a game that just came out actually that I brought up, um, during demos when we were playing demos, cult vacui just came out.
01:41:59
Speaker
Oh yes. I do know. Yeah. I remember. ah remember. Um, I loved the demo to that game. I thought it was incredible. Um,
01:42:12
Speaker
And i was i was so prepared not to because it's just another chunky pixel art horror game, yeah which we see so often. um And it's first person.
01:42:25
Speaker
Yeah. which it looks like je It's genuinely freaking me out. It really is. like looking at the Looking at the screenshots, I'm like, ah. It's really kind of freaking me out.
01:42:38
Speaker
I really loved it. Nice.
01:42:42
Speaker
I think that's, you know, if it's too freaky, then maybe we can wait all the way till a spooky spooky month to talk about it.
Fear in First-Person Games
01:42:51
Speaker
You know how I feel about first-person games, right?
01:42:55
Speaker
They're scary just by their nature. Yes, I get so even fucking missed. Because you're Like, i'm scared.
01:43:07
Speaker
I think Myst was supposed to feel scary, but it feels like yeah the cultural, it feels like we have enough memetic cultural knowledge now to know that nothing scary really happens in Myst. Yeah, correct. yeah But it's still funny to like boot it up and be like, ah I know. so The music got weird. is the weird?
01:43:31
Speaker
All right. Do we want to head for a descent now? Yeah, let's do the descent. The descent. So thank you guys for listening. And thank you for talking. Thank you, roses, for talking about esoteric ab with me.
01:43:47
Speaker
Oh, I couldn't wait. It's so fun. You guys are so, you you guys ought to feel privileged that you got two episodes in a row. just want you guys to remember, i don't like D&D, though. I don't play it. I don't like, don't like that kind of stuff, honestly, you know?
01:44:06
Speaker
Yeah, I can tell. So i I'm going to say a thing we said at the end.
Podcast Community Engagement and Outro
01:44:12
Speaker
I'm going to say what we said at the end of like the last two episodes. I don't know that we've fully gotten back on track yet. but No, I don't know if we have.
01:44:20
Speaker
But we're trying our best. we are trying. And we managed to do it two weeks in a row. So. You did do that. I'm proud of us. I'm proud of us too. We should get donuts. Let's get donuts.
01:44:32
Speaker
But also, if you want some consistency and you want to talk to us and other adventure gamers, we have quite the hop in Discord for Save Your Game. That'll be in the show notes. We have such a good time in the Discord, you guys.
01:44:46
Speaker
That Discord's great. The Discord great. They're making friends in there. They support each other. hop in there and talk. I love the Discord. If you need updates, you can follow us at Save Your Game Podcast on Instagram. If you want to bother us, you can email us at mattandroses at gmail.com.
01:45:06
Speaker
Am I missing anything here? I don't think so. I think you fucking nailed it. Nailed it. So good at this. This is why me so why I'm a YouTuber.
01:45:17
Speaker
That means there's only one thing left for us to do. Not say what we say at the end of every episode. Get donuts. Get donuts.
01:45:28
Speaker
Podcast is art. And art is supper.