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The CACUSS New Professionals Institute
100 Plays1 year ago
This episode our on-air host Adam Kuhn is joined by Leonard Park, Pearl Mendonça, Dr. Neil Buddel, Haley Doherty, and Dan Traynor as we explore the topic of The CACUSS New Professionals Institute. We hope that you enjoy and choose to follow along as we release a number of episodes geared towards celebrating our past, present, and future as an organization.
About:
The CACUSS 50 Oral History Project is an initiative of the Canadian Association of College and University Student Services in recognition of our organization's 50 years of engaging student affairs professionals in Canada.
The series of podcasts is recorded and produced by: Sean Fast, Adam Kuhn, Nicholas Fast, Rachel Barreca, Stephanie Muehlethaler, Noah Arney, Sally Chen, Estefania Toledo, Paula Broderick, Jennifer Brown, Margaret de Leon, and Becca Gray. This podcast is recorded, produced, and published on the traditional territories of hundreds of Indigenous nations from across the northern half of Turtle Island, also known by its settler-colonial name, Canada. We are grateful for the opportunity to live, work, and learn on this land. For more information on the territories you may reside on, visit: https://native-land.ca/
Credits:
Music: Expanding the Limits | Performed by Audiorezout & Written by Oleksii Striapchyi | Stock Media provided by Audiorezout / Pond5
Podcast Cover Art by: Ravi Gabble (UTM)
Recommended
Transcript
Introduction to the Oral History Project
00:00:19
Speaker
Hello and welcome to the caucus 50th anniversary oral history project. My name is Adam Kuehn. I use he, him, and they then pronouns. And I'm going to be hosting today's episode, which is all about the caucus new professionals Institute training new professionals. And I'm joined here with some amazing guests that I'm going to introduce right now. So we've got.
Meet the Guests: Roles in Education
00:00:41
Speaker
In no particular order, we've got Pearl Mendonza, Manager for Career Student Success Advising at Mohawk College. We've got Neil Bedell, Vice President Student Experience and Success at Centennial College. Hailey Doherty, Employment and Career Advisor at Holland College. Leonard Park, Manager of Student Life at Seneca College. And Dan Treanor, Manager of Student Financial Aid and Awards at British Columbia Institute of Technology.
00:01:05
Speaker
All right. So welcome everyone. I think one of the first places we'll start is at the very beginning, which is I'm told a very good place to start.
Origins and Inception of NPI
00:01:13
Speaker
So the new professionals Institute, I think started in 2017, right? Or maybe that was the first time it ran. So the idea probably started well before that. And I want to kind of pick up before the first time it ran. So maybe Pearl and Neil, do you want to maybe just explain a little bit about the origins of this whole project?
00:01:31
Speaker
Sure, I might have to toss a meal for like origin pieces, but one of the first times that I saw the opportunity was when the opportunity was posted on caucus because they were hiring for facilitators. So that was the first time that I saw it advertised. I know that Megan McKenzie was in a professional development role at caucus and was kind of leading
00:01:59
Speaker
starting the New Professionals Institute. And I'm trying to remember, but I think that was probably the year before, so in 2016, when I saw the posting about the opportunity. And for me, at that time, I was looking to contribute to caucus, but it seemed like a great opportunity to connect with new professionals and develop as a facilitator. So from what I remember about posting, there was an opportunity for two facilitators,
00:02:28
Speaker
to come in. So that's what kind of interested me about the project. Now, Neil will have maybe a little bit more context in history because, Neil, were you involved in some of the discussions about the New Professionals Institute?
Designing the NPI Curriculum: Past and Present
00:02:42
Speaker
Yeah, great fluid segue there, Pearl. And for folks who are listening, the reason that there was like a little bit of silence of a gap is because we were like pointing to each other in our typical banter fashion of both professional respect and friendly picking lines. So yeah, everything Pearl said totally, like 2016, the posting and all of those pieces.
00:03:04
Speaker
And maybe if I'll rewind a little bit further back. So Peggy Patterson was a professor, scholar of student affairs and services at the University of Calgary.
00:03:18
Speaker
And I remember at a residence life professional association, RLPA session in the early 2000s, so maybe like 2002 or 2003, she was the keynote speaker at a conference and she said, we are professionals within a profession because there's a body of research that informs our practice. And, you know, little me coming from our, you know, just general sort of bachelor's in education, sort of bachelor's in science.
00:03:45
Speaker
general education into the world of student affairs was like, what? There's a body of research to inform our practice, and we are professionals. And in that, she overviewed a few of the pieces, but then also gave a nod to this thing called CSIS, which was the Canadian Institute for Student Affairs and Services that was out of the University of Winnipeg, or Manitoba.
00:04:10
Speaker
And, um, and I was like, Oh, there's the CSIS thing that gives a crash course in student affairs and services. And so that was kind of the precursor to the caucus and PI and having attended CSIS saving up my PD dollars, cause it was a few thousand dollars and it was also in BC. So Dan, it would be like so fantastic for folks like you, but it was, it was quite a bit of money. So it was.
00:04:36
Speaker
only accessible to certain folks in certain institutions. But the program covered everything. It covered student development theories. It covered organizational learning and development. It covered data and research practices. It covered budget. And so it had all of these really foundational elements. And then it kind of sunsetted for whatever reasons, right?
00:05:03
Speaker
And then as caucus also matured a little bit towards deepening professionalization within the field and the hiring of the executive director, the fabulous Jennifer Hamilton, and educationally, the phenomenal Megan McKenzie, part of Megan's charge and vision for caucus was to fill that gap of this educational foundational
00:05:28
Speaker
piece for folks that weren't necessarily coming in with the masters or for folks that were new or for whatever reason that brought folks to some kind of need for this. So that's kind of like how things came to
Curriculum for New Professionals: Community & Connection
00:05:43
Speaker
be. And so what Pearl and I did, we met at a sunset grill for breakfast and brought in all these materials and started like charting out like what is the curriculum design for this going to look like?
00:05:59
Speaker
So that's another good segue into the next question, which in promoting the NPI was described as designed with new professionals in mind. The NPI is open to anyone, including those with newer changing responsibilities, graduate students, academics, seasoned professionals, or anyone who wants to expand their understanding of core issues, competencies,
00:06:20
Speaker
and context of student affairs and services in Canada. So this seems like a huge undertaking in scope. So how did you undertake the process of designing the curriculum? So you're at Sunset Grill, you're enjoying your short stack of chocolate chip pancakes or whatever you're enjoying. What was the most important for you to incorporate into the design of the NPI experience? I can start. I think our conversation, and because we work really
00:06:47
Speaker
basing this off of a particular previous existence of this, because it was brand new. As someone new as a practitioner in the field, I knew that coming into this role as a facilitator, I was also looking to learn and develop. Neil has a fantastic background in curriculum development. He had been teaching grad school courses at OYSI with
00:07:14
Speaker
content that was exactly related to the caucus competencies, et cetera, in terms of like the student affairs pieces. So I would credit Neil with kind of some of the shaping of that particular curriculum and looking at like how to make that flow over the three days of the New Questions Institute, how to incorporate a capstone project that would help to apply the knowledge that the attendees would be able to partake in. And we were really, through that conversation, trying to figure out
00:07:42
Speaker
you know, we have these caucus competencies, we're imagining that people coming in aren't familiar with the competency. So how do we really help bring these competencies to life, you know, and how do we support new professionals who are looking to develop within the competencies and how do they set their goals then to grow their knowledge and skills like in those areas. So I think that was like a big part of our initial conversations.
00:08:07
Speaker
Yeah, totally, Pearl. And as you were talking, it was like taking me visually back to us at the table and
00:08:14
Speaker
the natural light and the fluorescent light combination illuminating both of our fantastic colored skin as we chowed down on, I think I had an omelet and you had, I think it was pancakes. And we started there. And so like, and then we just, cause we had never met. And so then we vibed so well. And one of the first, and Pearl took this nicely into like the content pieces.
00:08:40
Speaker
But one of the pieces because we were vibing so we're like, the vibe has to feel good, right? Like, there's the content piece. But it's a community of folks coming together. So how does it feel community so folks feel as as as comfortable and as like connected as we felt at that moment at Sunset Grill. And so that was like, so that was a key part and Pearl is very methodical with her
00:09:05
Speaker
with how she thinks about how content will come, digestion, connection, and all of those really important process pieces, both with content, but then the relationality of it. And fun note, Pearl, to this day, fast forward, whatever 2017 plus to 23, what's that, six years ago, still remembers everybody's name and institution from all of the NPI folks that are there, because that's how deeply
00:09:35
Speaker
Pearl is caring about people. But yeah, so then the curriculum piece is there. The only piece that I would add to what Pearl mentioned is what was surfacing in the field compared to when CSIS was there was the caucus competencies, like Pearl highlighted, and then also the program at OISI and the student development and services stream at OISI. And so we were like, and at this point also the Seneca program,
00:10:02
Speaker
certificate instrument had also sunset it. So we were doing that review concurrent to this. So we're like, there's all of these different pieces. And now caucus is taking this, this leadership initiative to, to bring back this, this important learning platform. How do we bring in the best of and the learnings of all of these pieces that had different durations into this three day
00:10:28
Speaker
experience that we want to be both theoretical and have application and also form be a conduit for professional connections and community.
00:10:42
Speaker
Awesome. Thank you. And just for the record, this episode is not sponsored by Sunset Grill. I just wanted to make that clear for anyone.
Personal Journeys: Expectations and Experiences at NPI
00:10:48
Speaker
So we've got Leonard, Dan, and Haley here who have attended the MPI at some point, and they are established and respected practitioners in their own right. And you could probably, you know, lead parts of the MPI at this point in their career. But I want you to think back to maybe
00:11:04
Speaker
a few years back to maybe when you were thinking about going to the NPI, Hayley, I'm going to go to you first. What made you curious about attending the NPI? At the time I attended the NPI, which was 2017, so I think the first
00:11:20
Speaker
in person offering with with Neil and Pearl as my wonderful leaders. I was in my second big girl job I would say. So having graduated post-secondary and like many in the field I came through the residence life tour that that route. So this position I was in in a kind of generalist student success advisor at Lakehead University at the time.
00:11:46
Speaker
and I was managing a lot of new portfolios and you know so I felt very comfortable in my residence life roots so to be in this new position at that time too I had moved across the country to take on this role so everything was just feeling very new to me having a lot of fun but had a lot of questions and a few months prior to taking on that position
00:12:11
Speaker
Through the Atlantic Association of College and University Student Services, ACAS, I did a presentation on that new professional transition and how you wake up one day as a student staff to professional the next and how that feels and what that means. So whenever I received an email saying there's a three-day PD opportunity, I thought, perfect, yes.
00:12:34
Speaker
You know, of course, I thought this is going to answer all of my questions and I'm going to get a guide that says, this is how you work in student affairs at a college or university. That did not happen. But it's really what I felt I needed the time to, I guess, just better understand where our work comes from, all these different functional units and areas of student services, you know, how they differ, what they look like at different institutions.
00:13:01
Speaker
but also how I take on the work and how do I approach the way I support students and how I show up each day. So for me as quite new in my career and managing lots of new areas, it was like the golden ticket and such a great opportunity that for sure really kind of grounded my work and my learnings from that point forward. Thanks Haley. What about you Leonard? What made you curious about attending the NPI?
00:13:30
Speaker
So similar to what Hailey had to say, I was also quite new. I had worked in decision before and sort of jumped around in the State Services Department doing little bits all over the place as it tends to happen. And so when I moved to Seneca, I was invited to do this by my then Associate Dean and the
00:13:54
Speaker
at the time would have been the, I guess, the incoming caucus president, Mark Solomon, to attend NPI. And so it was great for me. I mean, I was curious. I felt at that stage I was sort of born a sponge, right? I was just trying to take as much in from as many people as I could. I know
00:14:19
Speaker
I didn't have a lot of expectations coming in because I just wanted to be open to the experience as a whole and was shocked about, you know, Adam, you had said the original sort of posting or invitation to create NPI was about the seasoned veterans or those who are switched sort of careers and not necessarily just new to the field or new to the profession as a whole. And so my group, I think I was the 2019 group at Niagara Falls,
00:14:46
Speaker
or the 2018 group, I can't remember, but that group was great because we had an incredible sort of wealth of knowledge and history in the room of people who had switched roles and some had been at the institution for 15 plus years and it was great to be in that setting to learn from so many people and to see how much curiosity was in that room and yeah I loved MPI and
00:15:16
Speaker
and we'll be promoting it to anyone near and far going forward. So it was a little bit of happenstance from my associate dean and a very welcome sort of opportunity for me to grow and experience and really challenge myself at the same time. Awesome. Thanks, Leonard. And Dan, when you were kind of registering and signing up for NPI, what were you hoping to get out of it? What were you expecting?
00:15:43
Speaker
Yeah, so I was also part of the 2017 crew along with Haley. And thinking back to that time, I was about a year and a half working in student affairs. I worked in the Career Centre at TMU, Toronto Metropolitan University. And I feel that after about a year and a half of being in my job, I had finally sort of gotten a bit of a grasp of what my job was. It had taken a fair amount of time and I was enjoying the work quite a bit.
00:16:11
Speaker
And really just wanting to start exploring opportunities within Student Affairs. I knew that I liked the field, knew that I wanted to know more. So when we were presented with, you know, the potential opportunity of attending the NPI,
00:16:27
Speaker
It was going to be my first ever engagement with caucus, which was something that I had heard a whole lot about over the previous year and a half. I jumped at the opportunity. I just felt like it was really, it would be a good chance to have more of a formal, formal educational grounding for the work that we were doing, which is not something that I had had previous. So yeah. Awesome. So, and just to clarify, so there was a 2017 cohort, a 2018 cohort. Did it continue on for?
00:16:55
Speaker
A couple more years. How many times has it run Neil or Pearl maybe it ran in 2017 18 and 19 and then 2020 happened.
00:17:09
Speaker
Okay, so it sounds like there was really deliberate intentionality from Pearl and Neil and caucus broadly around creating a space that was about, you know, developing skills, acquiring knowledge that is, you know, formative for us to be successful in our roles, but also building relationships and connections and sense of confidence in our role.
00:17:26
Speaker
which it sounds like Leonard Haley and Dan, that was some of the things that attracted
Impactful Sessions and Learning Moments
00:17:29
Speaker
you to it. You wanted to connect, you wanted to deepen your knowledge base. And so I'm curious, thinking to what actually took place in London and then in Niagara Falls, what are some of the things that stand out for all of you? And maybe we'll kind of go in reverse order. So maybe Dan, we'll come back to you. From your experience, whether it was a speaker, a session, an experience, an aha moment, was there anything
00:17:50
Speaker
when you think back to your highlight reel of your NPI experience, what is kind of happening for you? So Dan, what's one of those things that shows up for you? Yeah, I appreciated this question because I'm not one to really remember a lot of the details of things, so it kind of forced my thinking. And I'm glad that Leonard mentioned Mark Solomon because that is something that I remember taking away from the NPI. I think
00:18:17
Speaker
Mark did a talk maybe on the first night of the institute. Okay, I see some nods. That felt really impactful, I think, for me and for the entire group. You know, I'm sure he covered a whole lot in that session with us, certainly from a strong decolonized lens. It just really felt like a really important way to ground and situate all of the learning that would fall over the next few days and definitely
00:18:44
Speaker
stood out to me when I think about my learning experiences and the things that I took away from the Institute. Awesome, thank you. Leonard, anything that stands out for you?
00:18:57
Speaker
You know, just reflecting back on when Nio said the initial sort of construction of it was like this intense sort of three, four day event. And I remember it being just like that full sort of immersion and I loved it. I know it's not for everyone, that sort of intense three days and everything sort of coming at you, but I really loved it. And a part of it also reminds me of that. Well, some of the work that we do often happens in like the short amounts of like bursts and
00:19:27
Speaker
of intensity. And so that was like a welcome sort of reflection on that. Obviously, the people were great. And then at the end, we had a little banquet dinner altogether. That was a real highlight. You know, we stuck around and got to know each other quite well. And so that was a lot of fun just to see, you know, everyone from across the country and different departments sort of shared their experiences and having a laugh at the end of it was a real highlight for me.
00:19:56
Speaker
Awesome. Thanks, Leonard. Haley, what about you? I, to kind of piggyback of what, you know, Leonard was saying that the time and the people, but I think how it all flowed together was so helpful. It just really complimented your learning throughout, you know, and three days as we know is not that long, but it was just a really nice way that we walked through all the different topics. I remember, I think it was Jen Gonzalez who led our value session.
00:20:25
Speaker
And I love that. And we had a lot of time in that session to share and hear from others. And we, that was facilitated one part anyway, through different cards, through sorting cards. And I still have that. It's, it's in my office. I see it every day. And so that was a really great session in terms of, you know, just taking a step back and thinking about what we bring to our work and what's important to us. Something else that, that stands out, shout out to Neil.
00:20:54
Speaker
I think on one of the very first opening, maybe the intro, you led us through a beautiful analogy on how student services post-secondary can sometimes be like a cruise ship.
00:21:05
Speaker
And the analogy was so detailed and that clicked with me and it stays with me and thinking about, you know, how different departments and units work together and compliment one another. And, you know, I think that's a shout out to that, the great vibe that Pearl and Neil had that we just had lots of fun conversations and, and the way we were taught and the way we learned was just a lot of fun and very casual.
00:21:31
Speaker
And, you know, kind of outside the formal learning sessions, we had lots of opportunities in the evenings to just connect. I remember we made a craft night one evening and it was just a really nice opportunity to chat with everyone and get to know each other on a bit more of a personal level. So, yeah, some of those sessions, you know, are still ones that I take with me and think about often. And of course, the people I think truly made the experience for sure. Thanks, Haley.
00:21:59
Speaker
Pearl and Neil, when you're thinking back to the experience that you were facilitating and kind of pulling together for these folks, is there any moments that stand out for you as kind of particularly, you know, exciting or kind of when you think back about your experience facilitating things that pop up for you as like a really notable memory from your time with the NPI?
Reflections on Community and Leadership Development
00:22:21
Speaker
Oh my gosh, I feel so pressured. Okay. Yeah, I think, and in looking back at the feedback in prep for today, the piece that stands out is really what Leonard Haley and Dan mentioned.
00:22:39
Speaker
was the community piece. Because when I did SESIS, I remember that and just this special magical moment that we all kind of shared and got exposed to content and stuff like that. But it was the community piece that I was just like, wow. And those were fun, as folks were mentioning, the craft night or still having the mug from the ceramics night. All of those things were just so
00:23:05
Speaker
fun, right? And like, so for me, it was the it was the relational pieces that really stood out because that surpassed what I thought could have been possible in that short amount of time. Well, and it sounds like what the things that you were doing in your deliberate design of the curriculum were had a lasting effect that you were really attending to the community building. And that seems to be some of what has resonated with some of our colleagues here. Pearl, was there anything that's in in your highlight reel? Yeah, I think
00:23:36
Speaker
I mean, I definitely agree on kind of the community forming and watching, you know, watching how, you know, you can go from like the first session where everyone's like a little bit timid to like say something or participate or they're unsure about like how to navigate that field of conversation to the third day where people are like jumping in and sharing and like connecting with each other and things like that. I love that. There was, I mean,
00:24:03
Speaker
Besides the relational pieces, there was also a lot of good like challenging conversations I think that can take place within that space right because you're bringing together a lot of really talented, intelligent folks that all contribute to their institutions like really strongly and I think
00:24:21
Speaker
you know, they bring a lot of great ideas. So I remember also just being really impressed with, you know, the caliber of folks that were like coming up through the field and who you could see were going to, you know, be the next leaders inside their institutions, just from the way that they were connecting with others and the way that they were sharing and the ideas that they had for how they wanted the field to kind of grow. So that was really,
00:24:47
Speaker
I remember coming out of that experience just being really motivated myself from all of that energy, seeing how they were going to bring those skills back to their institutions. It was really cool. Amazing.
00:25:02
Speaker
So my next question, and I'll throw it to Leonard Haley and Dan, and anyone who feels like they have a response can just jump in. It's around, I mean, Haley, you kind of mentioned the values cards that you still have in your office, but is there anything that you can think back to your, maybe something you learned or experienced at the NPI that you can connect to your practice today, like something that is still informing the way you take up your work on your campus? It can be something, it can be anything really.
00:25:30
Speaker
I can jump in. I think very quickly what comes to mind is NPI was really my first solid intro to program planning and assessment. And that it's not just about having an idea and running with it. We spent a lot of time and sharing what other folks do at their institutions about what all those phases look like. And I remember thinking, okay, I've got some work to do here.
00:25:56
Speaker
And so absolutely, that's something that continues to stay with me is all the pre-work and the post-work that goes into one program, one event, whenever it might be. Just to piggyback off some of the pre-work, oftentimes, and I know I've been in the past
00:26:13
Speaker
guilty of this, sometimes we just do things and run programs because we've always done it. And so a constant sort of reminder to either grounded work or at least be inspired by the research and some of the things that predate us, you know, even sort of old student development theories to new stuff that's coming out to be inspired by. And the assessment piece has been big in terms of the practice and the things that we try to do. But for me, one of the
00:26:42
Speaker
One of the things I learned from being in that community that Neil and Pearl you were talking about and trying to build in those groups was that, again, I'll go back to this curiosity to learn and this willingness, this dedication to service. Those values really stuck with me in terms of
00:27:02
Speaker
of how, maybe not how we necessarily work with students, but certainly how we operate as a team and to really sort of focus on like those aspects in order to go sort of far as a group in how we serve students. That was a really sort of indirect sort of learning I took from NPI back to my Seneca team. Thanks, Leonard. Dan, is there anything that you can think of that traces back to something you learned at NPI?
00:27:32
Speaker
Yeah, for sure. Not, not too different from what Leonard and Haley were saying, but for me, it definitely highlighted the importance of research. So I think learning firsthand from others, what they're doing at their different institutions and sort of seeing what works for your own context was a bit of a newer concept to me, but also then being exposed to some of the scholarship within the field. So it was likely my first real introduction to student development theory. Student development theory was something that I had been sort of like
00:28:01
Speaker
living and experiencing for the previous year and a half at that point, but to see sort of like...
00:28:06
Speaker
the academic scholarship behind what I was seeing in my day-to-day job, I found that to be really important and it definitely influences my work now. I speak about wondering what other people are doing at different institutions with my team all the time to the point that my team probably rolls their eyes a bit whenever I'm asking about that, but it definitely helped shape the way that I approach the work that I'm doing and just our strategies for implementing programs and services.
00:28:37
Speaker
Awesome. Thanks for sharing that, Dan. I want to shift gears a little bit to just thinking about why do you think it's important for a caucus to have programs like the NPI? I don't know that we've done it in a while, but I feel like maybe there's a world in which it'll come back and it'll have a, see it kind of implemented again through caucus.
00:28:56
Speaker
But why, why, I mean, it sounds like it was really valuable for those who attended, but why do you think as an organization thinking broadly, should we have spaces for new professionals to learn and grow from one another?
Significance of NPI in Professional Growth
00:29:07
Speaker
Maybe Neil, we'll start with you. Yeah, sure. And I think one of the common experiences, like one that's uncommon, like I feel like just to amplify something that Pearl mentioned in seeing folks present the approaches to very complex cases.
00:29:24
Speaker
something that I was like, this is this was not me was just the the depth of competence and confidence and ability that and care that that that folks put together that wasn't me at that age. And so I'm like, so inspired and excited to see the next chapter of student affairs folks. So I think that's one piece.
00:29:49
Speaker
right in terms of in terms of readying, not just for the profession, but ultimately because the profession exists for and with students that we're providing that depth of rigor and care for students. But one thing that has been common with our various storytelling is that we all came into the profession from different backgrounds
00:30:10
Speaker
with not necessarily that same kind of prep that some others have come in with, right, who might be going through some of the master's programs. And because, back to Peggy Patterson's words, that we are professionals within a profession because there's research to inform our practice and because of our superpower responsibility that is around student success, particularly for those from historically marginalized backgrounds,
00:30:38
Speaker
things like NPI, which, you know, isn't accessible for everyone, but there's different kinds of modalities that need to come into play. But NPI specifically providing that springboard to be able to enable all of the amazing transformative changes or developments that Leonard, Dan, and Haley so nicely talked about. Awesome. Thanks, Neil. Pearl? Yeah, just to build off that, I think
00:31:06
Speaker
Um, what NPI, um, and even just, you know, listening to Haley Dan and Leonard's, um, comments on the experience, I think, you know, you really learn in an experiential way, the importance of collaboration. And I think you, you know, get to do that in like a safe container.
00:31:26
Speaker
which I think is not often maybe sometimes how people feel when they're starting new roles and things like that. So I think a big thing is creating that container to build confidence in folks to go back to their institutions to then contribute in a way and still bring that student affairs lens and background and research to their work. So I think that's really important. And again,
00:31:51
Speaker
I often find even my own experience, I don't feel like I had that or didn't often have that reminder when I was doing my work every day in my role, but going somewhere and actually immersing myself in that experience was what I needed to kind of bring back. And I say that because caucus also ran a mid-level Institute. And I went to that the year after.
00:32:14
Speaker
Yeah, maybe the year after I had facilitated MPI and I went to it because I knew what a three day experience immersion experience would be like. And I was like, managers absolutely need this. They need to get away, they need to reflect, they need to think about their skills. And, you know, and so to me, it's like giving people the space to go away and do that work and come back refreshed and come back with new ideas and things like that, I think is really important.
00:32:39
Speaker
I love that. Well, and I think about kind of what you're saying, Pearl, too. And I just reflect on my own, my first year as a professional, as like a residence life coordinator. And my only frame of reference was what I learned in my undergrad, right? And so I remember being in meetings and being like, well, at my old institution, we did. And I would always go back to that, which I'm sure everyone started to roll their eyes because they were like, OK, we get it. But then I think having experience like the NPI, where you get other frames of reference, you get to understand other people's institutional contexts, regional contexts.
00:33:07
Speaker
functional areas. Like I think that exposure to different, different ways of working is, is also extremely valuable, which I think, you know, highlights the value of this social learning that you kind of inculcated in the program. Leonard, did you want to say something about the value of caucus running something like the NPI?
00:33:24
Speaker
Yeah, so coming from also like a student staff as well in residence and then working through in different sort of student services departments, I have a very, I guess, fond and appreciative and sort of admiration for the many managers and supervisors that I've had, and I always look up to them. And so for a long time, they are the ones that have the answers, you know, they were my counsel and things like that.
00:33:52
Speaker
just to have something for a new professional that sort of welcomes you to that table to help you know for me there's there's always been a divide between sort of the wisdom of the people who who I've sort of learned from and now being able to sort of be welcome to sort of contribute in my own little way was really sort of
00:34:13
Speaker
empowering for me to take that next step in terms of what I wanted to do and how I wanted to serve students and be part of the greater team than I already was. Thanks, Leonard. As we're kind of coming to the end of our episode here, I just wanted to maybe start wrapping up with
00:34:32
Speaker
A bit of a question about, you know, the world has changed a lot since 2017 and 2018, since folks had their NPI experience.
Future of NPI: Updates and Innovations
00:34:39
Speaker
Just want to go around the group, go around the circle and see, you know, if you were to design the NPI today, we're all meeting at Sunset Grill. We're coming up with what we want to be on the curriculum for the new iteration of the NPI. What is something that you think you would want to make sure is either included either in terms of, you know, content or experience or relationship? Like what are some things that you might want to
00:35:02
Speaker
make sure that we add or include. Can I throw it to Dan? Just thinking about the time between then and now, something that immediately came to mind for me was just the role of technology within Student Affairs. Post-NPI, we went through a pandemic that greatly changed the way that we do the work that we do. So I think having something around how we use
00:35:25
Speaker
technological applications within Student Affairs, how we can use technology to support student well-being and success, I think is a really interesting topic potentially to look at. And then I also think, you know, just a little bit more content or focus on
00:35:44
Speaker
how we develop communities of care on our campuses, responding to students in distress, fostering and supporting student wellbeing. We've been talking about student wellbeing and mental health for a long time. I feel like, at least in the work that I do, I'm talking about it even more now in 2023. So it's something that continues to be a huge challenge for students and staff. So that's something that I think could be really valuable
00:36:13
Speaker
Awesome. Thank you, Dan. Neil? Cool. Yeah, I know it's interesting, Dan, because as you talked about technology, we do a pre-survey and we ask folks to sort of rank order the competencies, and I do this in class as well at OISE, and tech
00:36:33
Speaker
previous to the pandemic always got self rated low in terms of importance. So totally agree with you in terms of in terms of that, and also agree with you in terms of the care piece, right? Because like there's all of these theories and all that kind of stuff, but it ultimately and what we see in the research when it comes down to is concern for welfare and commitment to integrity, right? And these are human relational components that matter with respect to success and experience outcomes. So
00:37:02
Speaker
Just wanted to amplify the two things that you mentioned and the piece that I'd add from my learnings over the last, since whatever that thing happened in 2020, that still continues, unfortunately.
00:37:13
Speaker
is the piece around this fourth dimension that we in sort of Western settler academic areas are kind of remain hidden to us. So when we're designing curriculum, for example, like in this case, we tend to go to like a model like Fink or Bloom and the three domains of the do no think or the cognitive psychomotor and affective. And part of the learning that I've experienced in different indigenous listening circles
00:37:42
Speaker
is what's missing is the spiritual domain, right? So to go into Fleener's work and that idea of inherent connection and purpose that are around relational obligations towards each other and care for the environment, being a piece that was not present in the previous curriculum designs, but definitely needs to go forward, right? So that's what I'd offer in addition to what Dan noted.
00:38:14
Speaker
Thanks, Neil. And Hailey, we'll go to you next. I know for me, so shortly after the NPI, I guess a year after I ended up pursuing my grad degree at OISE, where Neil was one of my professors. And I think actually this comes from one of your classes, Neil. I remember in a discussion you asked us, you challenged us, how many of you thought about this from a college student perspective?
00:38:40
Speaker
And I know at the time of the NPI, I had only attended and worked at university. And especially when you're newer in your profession, it's so easy to carry your lens through your institution and in my job, and this is what I do and see. And I think we did get into this at the NPI, but even more is to kind of strip that away as much as possible and think about who students are and, you know, in the Canadian post-secondary system, what does that look like?
00:39:10
Speaker
Adam, you also mentioned regional context. At the time I was working at a very small satellite campus in a small, more rural community compared to colleagues in my group who were in very large urban centers. So I think to have the opportunity to take all those factors and I guess levels of organization can be very helpful and really challenges the way you think about things for sure. Thanks, Hailey.
00:39:38
Speaker
And then we'll go Pearl next for our final, no pressure, but our final point. Oh dear. Yeah. No, no pressure at all. Thanks, Adam. Some of the things that I think about and people have, have mentioned a bit of this, but I'm thinking about, you know, trauma centered learning or like, you know, being able to think about the student and staff experience from like a trauma centered lens and
00:40:08
Speaker
and thinking about how folks are navigating their like everyday work in this phase of pandemic something like wherever we are now and then thinking about that in relation to students and I really like Neil your point about that we have a certain way of thinking about curriculum development and we have a certain way of thinking about knowledge translation how do we keep because we started that conversation in 2017 and try and
00:40:35
Speaker
And having Mark, I remember, start out our conversations for the MPI was really centering a decolonizing lens. But how do you really integrate that lens and work every day, right? Because it's not just like a one and done conversation. It's actually asking us to like, go back to our institutions and challenge like each level of the way that we're doing things, which is not a not always an easy thing to do.
00:41:05
Speaker
from a student affairs place and even challenging, not just in academia, but inside student affairs work, right? And so I think that's something that requires more learning and more time. And then I think about some of the work that we're looking at. We know within our own institutions and thinking about accessibility and historically marginalized students and thinking about the ways that those conversations have evolved
00:41:33
Speaker
but there's still a long way to go. So how do we challenge ourselves when we're together in learning communities to push those conversations forward to actually, you know, require more from ourselves and from our work and then be able to kind of apply that in our various institutions. I think that's, I think that is something you can do in an immersion, immersives or a type experience. And I would love to see that come back in a new Freshness Institute
00:42:02
Speaker
a way to bring some of these ideas. Yeah. Thank you, Pearl. That was a really kind of beautiful note to end on, I think. So thank you for sharing that. I want to thank Leonard, Pearl, Dan, Haley, and Neil for your time today. It was really great for me to hear about your experiences both in designing the NPI and participating in the NPI. I'm very just excited and hopeful about all the things that have taken place and have had ripples out into our field in various ways. So thanks everyone for participating in this interview today.
00:42:55
Speaker
The Caucus 50 Oral History Project is an initiative of the Canadian Association of College and University Student Services in recognition of our organization's 50 years of engaging student affairs professionals in Canada. The series of podcasts is recorded and produced by Sean Fast, Adam Kuehn, Nicholas Fast, Rachel Barreca, Stephanie Mulettoller, Noah Arney, Sally Chen, Estefania Toledo, Paula Jean Broderick, Jennifer Brown, Margaret de Leon,
00:43:25
Speaker
and Becca Gray. Intro and outro music is courtesy of Alexei Stryabchi. This podcast is recorded, produced, and published on the traditional territories of hundreds of Indigenous nations from across the northern half of Turtle Island, also known by its settler colonial name, Canada. We are grateful for the opportunity to live, work, and learn on this land. Miigwetch.