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Orientation, Transition, and Retention: a CoP Spotlight
97 Plays1 year ago
This episode our on-air host Dr. Stephanie Muehlethaler is joined by Cory Coletta, Josh Hass, and Lesley D'Souza as we explore the topic of Orientation, Transition, and Retention: a CoP Spotlight. We hope that you enjoy and choose to follow along as we release a number of episodes geared towards celebrating our past, present, and future as an organization.
About:
The CACUSS 50 Oral History Project is an initiative of the Canadian Association of College and University Student Services in recognition of our organization's 50 years of engaging student affairs professionals in Canada.
The series of podcasts is recorded and produced by: Sean Fast, Adam Kuhn, Nicholas Fast, Rachel Barreca, Stephanie Muehlethaler, Noah Arney, Sally Chen, Estefania Toledo, Paula Broderick, Jennifer Brown, Margaret de Leon, and Becca Gray. This podcast is recorded, produced, and published on the traditional territories of hundreds of Indigenous nations from across the northern half of Turtle Island, also known by its settler-colonial name, Canada. We are grateful for the opportunity to live, work, and learn on this land. For more information on the territories you may reside on, visit: https://native-land.ca/
Credits:
Music: Expanding the Limits | Performed by Audiorezout & Written by Oleksii Striapchyi | Stock Media provided by Audiorezout / Pond5
Podcast Cover Art by: Ravi Gabble (UTM)
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Transcript
Introduction and Roles at Trent University
00:00:19
Speaker
Good morning, everyone. I am so excited to welcome all of you to this caucus 50 podcast. My name is Steph Mueller, and today we're going to talk to some wonderful colleagues and friends of mine about orientation, transition and retention and that COP that we have at caucus. For those of you that in the wide world, I haven't had the pleasure of meeting yet. Once again, my name is Stephanie.
00:00:45
Speaker
My role really is to create community and connection and belonging for alumni, students, staff, and faculty at Trent University. And if we were to put a title on that, then I am the principal of Autonomy College. For any Harry Potter fans, I am a gonegal. So that's the best way to describe what I do. I'm thrilled to welcome some friends here in this conversation that we're going to have today. And I want to give them the opportunity to introduce themselves before
00:01:13
Speaker
we really get this conversation going. So I'm going to throw it over virtually to Leslie.
00:01:20
Speaker
Thanks so much, Stephanie. My name is Leslie, Leslie D'Souza. I work right now as the Recruitment Research and Communications Coordinator at KBRS. And so I support the recruitment of executives in higher education across the country. Before that, I worked in student affairs for about 17 years at a combination of schools at six different institutions, mostly in Ontario with one in the US.
Challenges and Goals of Orientation
00:01:45
Speaker
And I spent a large part of my career working on
00:01:49
Speaker
coordinating and organizing orientations. Thank you so much, Leslie. Corey. Hi, folks, my name is Corey Quetta, and I am the director of student support, which includes student advising and academic advising and student transitions at Seneca Polytechnic in Toronto, Ontario. And orientation is part of my day to day and holistic student advising part of my day to day. So it has been for about a decade now.
00:02:17
Speaker
Thank you, Corey. And last but not least, Josh. Hi, folks. My name is Josh Hess. I'm the Coordinator of Student Policy Initiatives in the Office of the Vice Provost Students at the University of Toronto. Before that, I did nine years of supporting orientation at the University of Toronto, which is a bit of a different beast. So we're heavily decentralized. So we've got three different campuses and a number of student societies running orientation programming concurrently.
00:02:42
Speaker
And before that, as a paraprofessional, I helped run orientation at the University of Guelph for the last two years that I was there in my undergraduate. So orientation is near and dear to my heart and I'm happy to be here today. So as folks can see, we have a wealth of knowledge today. And before we get into some questions, I do just want to take a moment to acknowledge where I'm coming from in terms of where I'm located. And right now I'm located on the traditional territory of the Michisagu and Anishinaabe.
00:03:09
Speaker
up here in Peterborough. I am unbelievably grateful for our Indigenous folks here on campus and in our community as a settler. And the learning for me continues every single day. And so I just have immense gratitude for the land that I am on. And so, yeah, so to switch gears a little bit, what's going to happen over the next 45 minutes or so is we're really going to dig deep
00:03:34
Speaker
into understanding orientation, transition, and retention through the lens of the COP at caucus. Now I do want to say these are big topics. We could have books and there are books and podcasts written about orientation, transition, and retention all separately, but today we're going to do our best to weave those topics
00:03:55
Speaker
because when the Venn diagram works well, there is a lot of overlap in the work that we do. So now that we're situated, let's get right into it. So for all of the three of you who have worked, as you mentioned, in these different areas in a variety of ways, institutions, and across the country, what would you say in your experience are some of the main goals of folks who are working in these functional areas of orientation, transition, and retention?
00:04:23
Speaker
And part two, and I'm always happy to repeat, how would you say this supports the academic mission of our institutions? And I understand that those may vary based on the institutions that we're at.
Identity Development and Student Retention
00:04:35
Speaker
So Leslie, if you don't mind, why don't you get us started?
00:04:39
Speaker
Awesome. I, it's funny because when I think about the main goals of people working in orientation, transition and retention, I usually find that there's a very deep personal connection to transition programming that informs their, their interest. And I, I.
00:04:54
Speaker
have that myself and I think of transition programming will really transition as a little bit of a crucible for identity development. The times where we go through transition are really uncomfortable and that's where we really start to see those core values and purposes and things that they come to the surface for our students and for us and so there's something magical about being able to create
00:05:18
Speaker
the conditions for students to come to a new understanding about themselves, to get closer to identifying and finding their purpose. And I think that the main goal of most of the people who work in orientation transition is to support as positive a transition as possible, recognizing that the discomfort is part of the process, because that's where learning happens and that's where self-discovery lives.
00:05:44
Speaker
So in terms of supporting the academic mission of our institutions, I think that higher education is as much about the topical learning that we do as it is about creating good humans. And I think creating good humans means creating humans who are self-aware and who have a purpose and goals. So I look at orientation programming as really, really fundamental to students being able to invest and engage completely in their education.
00:06:13
Speaker
and to follow it through on their education. So that transition period, if it doesn't go well, we know there's all kinds of research that says that the students are so likely to drop out if those first six weeks are not smooth and if the challenges outweigh their capacity to meet those challenges. So I think it's one of the most important programs on campus. Thank you so much, Leslie. Kori, what do you think from your perspective
00:06:42
Speaker
Oh, what a great question. And I, I think it's interesting that when I got involved in orientation, transitional retention programming, the first people that I learned from are Leslie and Josh, which is a perfect combination of folks to be on this call. So I would echo a lot of what Leslie shared. I, my first role in orientation, I was remodeling orientation. That was the task I was given.
00:07:02
Speaker
and we brought in Leslie to do some consulting at that institution actually and I learned a lot about purpose of orientation and community development and I had a previous experience in residence life and orientation was new to me but there were so many synergies and I think that that speaks to how it supports the academic mission of the institution. Everything we do is supporting our academic mission of course and that is our purpose at the end of the day but as Leslie is talking about as our education system becomes more
00:07:30
Speaker
focused on bespoke education, multiple modalities, and a number of different approaches to learning. I think that's great news, but also we need to be thoughtful about how we transition folks through that because of the challenges that come with transition and learning new and innovative ways to education, as we see many times with even international students who are from classrooms around the world and are now coming into a Canadian context and are seeing different approaches to teaching, different approaches and methodologies than they're used to.
00:07:58
Speaker
And are we orienting for that? Or are we orienting just for our academic purposes? Are we orienting for our transition of our life experiences? We need to also be reflective of the identities of our students and how those connect through. And their identities so often intersect with their academic goals. And so that, I think, brings it all together really holistically and nicely. If we focus on the whole person and the holistic approach to the transition, I think we can make significant impact with our students.
00:08:27
Speaker
It's so lovely, like what beautiful connection that Leslie and Josh had such a, it sounds like integral part to your own onboarding and orientation into this functional area. So thank you for sharing that, Corey. Josh, what have you seen in terms of the goals? What are the folk guy of the folks doing this work?
00:08:48
Speaker
Yeah, for sure. And I think asking about the goals of orientation and transition and retention, really the goals are named in those three words. So to orient new students to the physical campus and to the campus communities they might be interested in and to support their transition and retention by ensuring that they're made aware of the supports available to them and connecting them to those supports when they're needed. Really, when you frame it that way, it sounds like
00:09:12
Speaker
Like I make it sound like the work of orientation transition retention is something all of us are doing on the campus and that's the way it really should be. So the folks with OTR and their titles do a lot of heavy lifting but really take does take the whole community to make sure that new students transitions are a smooth one.
Evolution and Modernization of Orientation
00:09:30
Speaker
and to make sure that their identities are seen and woven through that experience. As for the academic mission, a student who feels like they belong on the campus, a student who is found using the air quotes of their people, and a student who feels supported, they're more likely to stay with us and to succeed. So I really think that, as Leslie and Cory have said, a strong transition is really what keeps people with us and what makes them succeed in the long term.
00:09:58
Speaker
Thank you so much for that. I'm going to pull a thread a little bit, which I think connects to our next question. Corey, you talked about bespoke education and really thinking about all the ways we learn best. And so the beautiful part about this group here is while we've dabbled in a large number of functional areas, we've also been in this field for
00:10:20
Speaker
you know, over at least a decade, if not two. So, you know, in this virtual room, we've got 50 plus years of experience. So when you reflect on that experience, how would you say that orientation has changed or evolved, especially over the last 10 years, both at colleges and universities? Corey, if you're comfortable, I'm going to start with you.
00:10:44
Speaker
Yeah, I can definitely start. I think what has been really interesting is I went to university as an undergrad and I did my master's at the university and my doctorate at the university are in the midst of that. And I have worked pretty exclusively in the college system, which is a very different approach to delivering education.
00:11:01
Speaker
What I mean by that is it's shorter and we have a lot more transfer opportunities and the opportunity to upgrade or reskill in a quicker, more dynamic way. But still that's transition and that's still needing orientation for that as well. And I think we evolved as a sector from single day events with campus tours and some food and understanding the campus and getting to know the campus a little bit.
00:11:24
Speaker
through to now where we are reflective of equity, diversity, inclusion principles. We are making sure that we're leveraging technology appropriately. We're innovating how we do it. They're addressing monumental academic, social and personal needs of our students and really contributing to the academic mission instead of just being an event. So I think we've moved to a place of realizing and being able to articulate how
00:11:48
Speaker
the impact that Josh just spoke about that orientation can have connects to the central components of the institution. What I've learned over the last number of months since I've taken on our advising team in particular is that every single conversation they have is part of the transition strategy.
00:12:05
Speaker
And if we're not working with the folks who have OTR in their title, like Josh mentioned, we're not serving our students effectively and holistically. And I think that's the sway we've seen over the last decade, if I could be so bold with my tenure, is from this single purpose to very multidimensional, multifunctional, and making deep impact. And way more intentional, definitely. Josh, what do you think? How have things evolved in your experience?
00:12:35
Speaker
So as I identify as timeless, I won't go into what year my orientation was in my undergrad, but Leslie was there, so no peeps out of view. Suffice it to say, orientation has evolved significantly over the decades. There's been a huge shift away from alcohol being at the center of social programming. There's a great deal of important work being done to create cultures of consent on our campuses during orientation.
00:12:58
Speaker
And while making new friends is certainly an important element of orientation and will continue to be, there's a greater balance between social programming, making sure students are properly equipped for their first university or college class that happens only a few days later.
00:13:13
Speaker
Fortunately, a lot of what makes orientation fun is definitely still alive and well. It definitely puts a smile on my face at the beginning of every September when I see and hear all the roving, cheering hordes wandering through campus. So I'm happy that's still there. But yeah, one other area of evolution I think is the development of curated orientation programs for 2SLGBTQ plus students, black students,
00:13:36
Speaker
first-generation students, mature students, and other diverse student populations, as well as more orientation programs popping up for parents and supporters, making sure that they also know what's in store for their student and how best to support them through the years ahead. So it's been very exciting to see orientation change over the X number of years since my own orientation. So on that note, with your timelessness and Leslie's, I think, impact on your own experience, Leslie,
00:14:05
Speaker
from your vast experience, what do you have to add to what these two folks have contributed thus far? Yeah. And so like, thanks for aging me, guys. Why? Because I think we fully established that I was the earliest orientation on the call. Ooh, I don't know. I think we could have a little competition there, Leslie. All right, then.
00:14:32
Speaker
Anyway, I echo strongly. You can't see me, but I was nodding my head through both of you speaking because I've seen a lot of evolution, as you mentioned, through different approaches to EDI, the elevation of EDI topics within orientation, consent, safety, alcohol, alcohol safety and use.
00:14:54
Speaker
has changed during orientation planning. I used to be on the side of risk assessment as well, and I can say that the way we approached alcohol and even like food provision during risk assessment processes has changed significantly.
00:15:10
Speaker
and the kinds of liabilities that institutions are able and willing to take on on behalf of orientation programming has shifted. So those are some of the logistical things that I've seen that have changed. And I think also figuring out orientations that are bespoke for all of the different identities that come to receive higher education, one that we didn't necessarily talk about, that I didn't hear as much about was mature and non-traditional students. I'm seeing a lot more
00:15:38
Speaker
people returning to education and need they need something very different than students who are coming out from from high school and looking for. The two things I wanted to talk about that I haven't heard yet are relationship building and I'm going to talk about two things. One is I found in the later years of my career in higher ed and I've seen it from the sidelines since I've moved out moved adjacent is the the challenges our students are having knowing how to
00:16:08
Speaker
make friends. So there it used to be that you could throw people together in a room or in a group and it would just happen. There was an organic kind of they were able to connect with each other and they knew how to do that and I'm seeing a lot more evidence now that it's harder for students to know how to do that specifically in person. So we rely on a lot of in-person activities during orientations because research shows those are really powerful but it can be very challenging for students if they are
00:16:36
Speaker
less comfortable being thrown into
Orientation's Role in Civil Discourse and Mental Health
00:16:39
Speaker
groups of people that they don't know and trying to figure out how to introduce themselves and have conversations with people they haven't met before. So I've seen a lot of some changes in terms of intentionality of training of volunteers and intentionality in the programming itself.
00:16:53
Speaker
to help students kind of, it's a bit more structured to help them meet other people and not force it, but really create the structure around it so that it's easier for them to make those connections. They don't have to take as much onto themselves.
00:17:09
Speaker
The other thing that I've noticed is the impact of technology in social media on orientations and how it's changed discussions, how it's changed dynamics. I see way more polarization in terms of viewpoint values and some of those things that bubble up in groups and can lead to conflict. I've seen differences in how students handle conflict since social media came around. So I think that
00:17:37
Speaker
The purpose of higher education, at least from my vantage point, is to create space for difficult conversations. So if you're going to have those difficult conversations and create spaces where we can have engines of social change, that's what universities and colleges and polytechnics are. All of these places where students kind of enter into the phase of their life where they really find their sense of purpose, we need to have space for those difficult conversations.
00:18:07
Speaker
I think that orientation can and does in some places play a role in shaping what civil discourse looks like and shaping how students can engage with people who think differently from them. And then the last one was, I think mental health has been very, very different in terms of our approach during those transition programs. We recognize how mental health impacts transition, the ability to learn,
00:18:32
Speaker
There's all kinds of changes that had to be made to how we view higher education and orientation is a gateway to that. So I've seen a lot more effort and a lot more support and a lot more people with the words to use to talk about their own mental health.
Impact of COVID on Orientation and Adaptations
00:18:50
Speaker
So I've seen students who are asking actively for things to support them.
00:18:53
Speaker
Whereas when I started in this field, it was really difficult to have those conversations. It was really difficult for students to acknowledge that they were suffering and that their well-being was not in a good way. So I think that's been mainly positive shift. Thank you so much to the three of you. For the folks that obviously can't see us, there's lots of nodding heads. And I think what's so beautiful is that
00:19:20
Speaker
I'm going to speak on behalf of all of us. We're learning from one another. Um, and just these connection points are so important and so valuable. And I think, you know, as we talk about the evolution of orientation and Leslie mentioned it a few times, you know, sometimes we can utilize research and trends to understand how might this play out in our orientations. And sometimes things happen in the world that we just cannot plan for. And it's literally overnight.
00:19:47
Speaker
And we were just reflecting before we started this call. And I think we are really in a time of reflection of COVID. You know, it is now three plus years ago when we had our first orientation in the COVID world. And, you know, from my own experience, the granted, the given things like students in a residence were no longer a thing, at least not here at Trent, at my college.
00:20:12
Speaker
And so I'd love to hear as we're learning about how we each handled this in a way that there was no playbook. There was no best practice in this exact occurrence. I'd love to know starting with Josh, you know, how did in your experience COVID impact, just how orientation functioned, especially when it comes to
00:20:35
Speaker
those things that students really needed to learn and they're going through a worldwide pandemic together. And, you know, at your own institution at U of T, what changes did your school make or for all of you when you get to this part? And has anything stayed? Because, you know, for me, this feels like a more familiar year. I'm using air quotes. I don't want to say normal. It's more familiar, but some things have changed. So I'd love to hear what has stuck. I know that's a lot, Josh, but
00:21:05
Speaker
I'm going to throw it over to you and see what you got. Sounds good. Thanks, Deb. So I think like everyone else, we had to pivot to online everything and then subsequently develop a general disdain for the word pivot. But despite a lot of amazing work by a lot of our OTR professionals, like
00:21:25
Speaker
I would say in the online world, students definitely learned the basics of what they needed. They needed those tools to be equipped for their first days of classes. But overall functionality, the experience, that chance for them to sort of meet one another, to develop those new friendships,
00:21:49
Speaker
I think was definitely impacted. And it's hard, especially when you've got people doing amazing work, navigating that new environment. Those first couple of years, I think were hard for everybody. And so coming out of it, coming into a more familiar time.
00:22:05
Speaker
Being able to see some of that life come back onto campus and see some of those in-person relationships coming back, I think is fantastic. As I said, the roving hordes are back. That makes me very happy. But I think out of it came an opportunity and something that we are building on is that some of those online opportunities and online programming does stay with us now. So it's a great way to engage international students before they arrive
00:22:35
Speaker
In Canada, it's a great way to also engage parents and supporters who may not be able to travel to campus for whatever reason. I think a lot of those online opportunities that we're forced into creating, some of those are staying with us and they're providing fantastic programming.
00:22:52
Speaker
And some of it, like sort of an online sort of ice cream social has gone by the wayside because now students can actually be in person and actually once again enjoy ice cream or non-dairy specific ice cream replacement together. So I think that that's great. But yeah, in terms of overall functionality over those years, a lot of amazing work was done, but you can't fully replace that in-person experience.
00:23:20
Speaker
And I think that's led to some of what Leslie has pointed out with some of those difficulties of folks navigating in-person social spaces where they're meeting new people for the first time. I think it's going to take a while for us to sort of get back to where things used to be in terms of folks' ability to navigate those spaces. Thank you, Josh. So much reflecting and learning as we think about the experiences that we've had
00:23:49
Speaker
Leslie, what about you? Yeah, again, I love this group because I'm hearing things and I'm learning and I'm just like, yes, yes, that! So I have to stop myself from trying to jump in because I get excited. I think, echoing what Josh was saying, keeping online programming that worked, and I look at this too from an accessibility standpoint, so
00:24:11
Speaker
I know that I went through my own transition of letting go of the importance of some of our signature key orientation events where you get all the students together and it's an amazing photo op and you know there's lots of big things happening and there was this kind of ethic of everybody has to be together at the beginning and at the end and it's important to their experience and to our experience and what this has taught me is that there are many ways
00:24:39
Speaker
to start and end orientation. And the alternatives that meet the needs of different students are vital. So creating an alternative to a signature event is not going to detract from the signature event. It's going to better serve the students that aren't served by the delivery of that. So I look at online programming as an option now for students where accessibility to orientation or some of the things that would have held them back from attending orientation are now accessible to them.
00:25:07
Speaker
So I don't think online programming is ever going to go away, but we're going to use it in the places where it makes the most sense. And so when I think about what Josh was just finishing on, talking about social connection and the spaces that it's important for us to have social connection, I think COVID actually taught us how important in-person physical connection is, because when we removed it,
00:25:30
Speaker
it was punishing to us and to the students, to the community as a whole. And I think for a long time we had been all talking about, you know, oh we're gonna move towards technological offering of education. I remember there was a big undercurrent of fear in student affairs about
00:25:49
Speaker
our jobs being replaced by offering online education and students wouldn't be on campus, so would we have jobs? What I think COVID taught us is that there will always be an on-campus experience because it's completely different and serves a completely different need and purpose.
00:26:08
Speaker
than what our online programming can serve. So the students that choose online are choosing it for a variety of reasons. They need the flexibility, they need the accessibility. That's a good thing. They have that option now. But the students that are seeking out that space to develop and to make connections and have those transformative experiences, I think that it just taught us all how important it is for that to happen in person and the new dimensions that can happen in person that can't happen in those online spaces.
00:26:37
Speaker
And just adding all to that, I saw a lot of grieving from students, but also from orientation professionals during that first year when we had to pivot.
Post-COVID Collaboration and Holistic Student Needs
00:26:50
Speaker
And again, yes, pivot is a very special word to me. But when we had to pivot to online delivery of orientation, there was so much
00:26:58
Speaker
grieving that happened, grieving the loss of some of these key experiences and seeing the impact on the incoming class of students and how they maybe weren't getting the things that we had hoped that they would get. And I think that that grieving is, it's in the tail end. There's still grieving doesn't ever really end. So I think that we're just kind of coming through now and everything has evolved and changed and people are still settling into that change. So there's
00:27:27
Speaker
We have yet, I think, to land in a space where we've really stabilized. So I'm looking forward to and also a little nervous about the future changes we'll see. For again, folks that, thank you for that, Leslie. We can all see each other and, you know, maybe there'll be a YouTube channel someday for caucus. But when Leslie spoke about the grieving, the non-verbals in our virtual room were
00:27:56
Speaker
really telling, you know, if it's okay. Like I saw all of our shoulders just collapse and like, as if it was as if we'd been holding our breath. And I think, thank you for, for naming that. I think it's a space where we do all have connections with each other, you know, of a variety of degrees, but you're right. And it's sometimes in the busyness of it all, we almost forget that we're grieving until we name it again or something happens of this experience. But for folks listening,
00:28:25
Speaker
There was a big inhale and exhale when Leslie was talking about that. And I just wanted to name that because I think it's, yeah, I think it's really important that we acknowledge that. Sorry to put it on you after that, Corey. Tell me about your experience during this all, this worldwide pandemic and the work that you do, the meaningful work.
00:28:50
Speaker
Yeah, I think that me going last is a perfect opportunity to share that it was an interesting change from COVID when I
00:29:00
Speaker
when we were entering at Seneca because we were already doing virtual orientation and only doing virtual orientation. So our work in orientation didn't change. It actually became an opportunity for us to lead our institution in virtual delivery. Faculty returning to us, how are you engaging students? Asking us questions, building bridges with faculty, saying let's do this together, let's solution this together.
00:29:23
Speaker
It opened up COVID as a whole, opened up a whole new opportunity to connect with colleagues we had never done before. We have a six-campus institution, and while I have staff at every single campus and I go to every single campus, that doesn't necessarily give time to have big meetings on every single campus and talk about the different personalities of the campus and that sort of thing. But more so, it doesn't give opportunity for everyone to come together.
00:29:47
Speaker
And COVID, just being able to meet virtually and all these people being in all of their own homes, we were able to collaborate differently, change things and how we were doing things and deliver things differently. And we started to realize synergies between groups that we had never realized before because in person our offices just weren't near each other.
00:30:05
Speaker
sometimes between municipalities and sometimes even on the same massive campus where you're on other ends of the campus. And so for our programming, nothing really had to shift. Our content of our programming absolutely did. The delivery, the modality was working, but how we were doing things differently really did. I remember the first semester we had a ton of feedback from students that we missed the mark on orientation about how students go to classes, because while we did orientation virtually before the pandemic,
00:30:32
Speaker
which they were in person, we had guides on campus who would point them to classes and do wayfinding and show them around. And it was employee volunteers. And when we went virtually, they didn't know the Zoom link is what you had to click on. And how to get into Blackboard was something that we weren't training on because that was something their professors usually shared with them in class in the first week. And that's where we had put that in our delivery of transitions.
00:30:56
Speaker
So now we were working with faculty to say, okay, we need to do this at orientation and some of this needs to happen during the academic year and we were switching the content to be more responsive to the student's needs. And I think that that is the thing that is carried past COVID that I am so grateful to COVID.
00:31:14
Speaker
implications on our work because I think that the long lasting positive impacts that changing and rethinking and being thrown into something so quickly, so fundamentally changing our work, taught us something about how we can innovate and how we can collaborate and how we can work together.
00:31:32
Speaker
And if I could add one more caveat, I think what it really taught us is how to humanize our students and our staff and our colleagues and our faculty, because suddenly we were in their homes and folks weren't able to turn on their cameras and folks weren't able to have a reprieve or a safe space to get to if they were in homes that were challenging to work from. And a lot of folks were in homes that were shared and they were not able to have private spaces to do exams. And we saw how that played out. And I think that
00:31:58
Speaker
We heard a lot about well-being and mental health during COVID and folks were very humanizing with one another, very empathetic and thoughtful. And now my institution, that is carried forward. And I hope that as a society, that carries forward as well. Because I think that we have students now more than ever demanding that we support their mental health. And that is something that we've provided services and we have provided counseling and we've provided health insurance and we've given all of the tools to be able to make that happen.
00:32:25
Speaker
or where we are, I think, missing the gap sometimes is have we put too much work into the course curriculum? Have we put too much pressures into how you register for class and all of the add-on things you have to do to get into experiential learning and get your insurance sorted out and get your uniform for your work placement and all of the pieces that go along with academia that are academic requirements but are not captured anywhere.
00:32:49
Speaker
And that's where our students are saying, recognize it's more than just the coursework. Recognize that I also have to register for classes and pay my fees and work and I don't have a job and all of the larger implications. And I think that has given us an opportunity to be responsive in our transition and orientation programming in a way we never had been previously. We're thinking about childcare on campus. We're thinking about the ways in which things that
00:33:13
Speaker
We never really thought we would need. We're now thinking about how we do that for during classes, not just when we have a one day event for orientation. And we want to make sure there's a great experience that day. We're trying to carry that throughout the entire student experience. And I think that we've learned a lot from COVID because of that.
00:33:30
Speaker
My delivery modality didn't have to change that we didn't have to pivot in our institution, but our content had to be responsive to what was going on around the world. And I think that that is really the learning that we took away, that we built bridges and those bridges we need to continue to use and to do our work in collaboration and in tandem.
00:33:51
Speaker
I think that was so, thank you Corey, so beautifully said because it's this weird dichotomy of like grieving and also silver linings is not the right word, but these nuggets of knowledge that actually have such a impactful transformational value in the work that we do that we were challenged
00:34:09
Speaker
to expand our understanding. And I do hope folks that are listening and folks on this call, that our institutions have humanized, you know, the individual and gone beyond the title and our responsibilities. Here's to that hope. And we all talked a little bit about this, you know, if we continue to pull that thread of the things that you deem important and vital. And so,
00:34:35
Speaker
Let's think about and we'll get to a little bit later on. I don't know if we'll get through all the questions today, but a little bit later on, we tie it back into the COP and whatnot. And let's say, you know, we're at caucus or you're at a COP meeting and you've got that brand new, you know, somebody who's doing orientation on their campus, they've got their notepad ready to go and they say, Leslie,
00:34:56
Speaker
What are your non-negotiables? What do I have to have in orientation? And as much as we would love to dive into it and, you know, talk about our philosophical approach to orientation and how we want to do things, if they're like, no, no, no, like I need your top, let's say three or four, it's got to have it. What are those ingredients, those key factors, those things that in your perspective, Leslie, have to exist in any orientation programming?
00:35:24
Speaker
That's a tough one. And I struggle with this one because, okay, when I started my career, I'm a storyteller. When I started my career, I remember going to one of my first job interviews and I had gone to the University of Guelph and I loved that orientation program. I had met lifelong connections through that program. And so there were parts of it that I was like, oh, this is such a great part, like we should
00:35:53
Speaker
take this everywhere else. And I loved those pieces of programming. But when I went to that job interview and talked to the hiring manager about the things I would do on their campus, I didn't get the job. And part of the reason when I asked for feedback was because I didn't really make space
00:36:11
Speaker
for understanding the different needs and the unique needs of each institution before I tried to transplant programming. So my advice is it's really difficult to focus on the program itself that you want to implement rather than the outcome. So I like to look at orientation as a system of outcomes for students and what do you need to do that fits the context and culture of your campus to meet those outcomes.
00:36:35
Speaker
So in terms of outcomes, I look at you need something that is a very clear beginning. You need a very clear like, this is this is the beginning of your time. This is the this is you're going to be part of something. Some institutions do that through a large scale event that like a welcome type event. Generally, for me, the most important thing for students to land is an opportunity for them to meet
00:37:03
Speaker
in small group settings, faculty. So I feel like, again, there's a ton of research that says one of the number one predictors of retention of students is whether they make a personal connection with a faculty member in their first few weeks and months at the institution. That contributes to a sense of belonging and their ability to find academic purpose.
00:37:26
Speaker
And so I remember programs like carnivals or you know kind of like meander through events where people can in small settings meet different faculty members and staff members. The key for me to orientation was always quit spitting out information because the students don't remember the information.
00:37:45
Speaker
introduce them to people and if they can meet those people then when they run into the challenge that they need they can remember oh gosh i'm really struggling writing this paper i don't know where to go but i remember i met that nice person from student services or student affairs i bet they would know and so you know that that connection finding opportunities in reasonably small settings for people to make those personal connections is more important than
00:38:13
Speaker
having your big splashy welcome where somebody's up on stage because nobody's going to feel confident going and talking to that person up on the stage because they seem really inaccessible. You need those small groups
00:38:24
Speaker
interactions. And the other thing I'll emphasize here, which I already mentioned earlier, is alternatives. So multiple alternatives that meet the same outcome because everybody needs something different and needs a different kind of delivery. So don't get too attached to signature things. Those are important events, obviously, but you should have other ways that students can still get that outcome without having to go to something where they're in a large crowd or
00:38:51
Speaker
where they have to go and cheer or, you know, things like that. Thank you, Leslie. So many awesome things. I hope folks have notepads out and are ferociously writing down even, you know, a decade or two into this. We can still do a lot of learning from our, from our colleagues in the field. Corey, what are your non-negotiables that you would like to add to Leslie?
00:39:16
Speaker
Leslie captured so many really great non-negotiables, but I think that the one that I would say I would really underscore and highlight is the sense of belonging and community. We're starting to really put it at the very beginning of our call. Leslie talked about finding that in-person connection and folks not knowing how to build friendships anymore and what is the way to do that. And we're finding it is easier to do when we have commonality. Obviously we know this having
00:39:43
Speaker
commonality at events or functions that you go to. You can obviously have shared interests and build community, but we're intentionally designing them into orientation now. Folks who are big Lego Star Wars video game fans are in one space and are able to make that happen and have that experience with one another and build relationships there.
00:40:01
Speaker
And we also have spaces that we are having folks connect with people across different interests in video games, but maybe are tied to their identity in different ways, like their country of origin or the first language that they're speaking. We're asking these kinds of questions to be responsive in the work that we do. And so we're using the information that we know about students and what students are telling us. And so my non-negotiable to summarize all of that up is relationship building, but is reflection of identity and orientation.
00:40:32
Speaker
Thank you, Corey. Josh, what's your non-negotiable? I think I can summarize it as three questions that I just want folks to ask when they're thinking about the orientation programming. And first is, does it acknowledge the whole student? So we talked about this a bit. So will everyone feel welcome? Will they feel included? Do they feel that they can opt out if they just need some time away? Because it's a lot in a small amount of time.
00:40:58
Speaker
Question two, does it give students the tools they need for day one of classes? We want to put all of that information into orientation, but that can be that amount of information can be like drinking from a fire hose for students. So finding the right time during the full transition journey to share information that folks need when we think they'll need it is a great way of making sure folks are equipped, but making sure people are equipped for day one during the big orientation is the goal. And lastly,
00:41:26
Speaker
This goes for everyone, but it's more for working with our student societies, student unions, all of our clubs, et cetera. Is it something you'd be proud to see on the front page of the Toronto Star or whatever your local newspaper is? So a lot of times you've got some interesting ideas and you've got some, um, Leslie and I both did a lot of risk management work. Like, is it something you're like, yes, all of this will be safe. It's going to go right. Uh, and we would be proud to see that plastered on the front page. So those are the three non-negotiables in the form of questions.
00:41:57
Speaker
That's amazing. I love that. I'm going to have to write those down. Leslie, you have a thought?
00:42:05
Speaker
I just wanted to tag on to what Josh was saying, because I miss saying that. And I think it's so important to understand that 90% of the time when I would work with partners across campus to plan something for students, they would complain about how students would come to their office two weeks after orientation when they had given them the answer and then ask the same question. And the number of times I heard that, I was like, this is an us problem, not a student problem.
00:42:33
Speaker
that, you know, if we're giving them the information that we want them to have, and then they all have the same question two weeks later, maybe that means that's not the time they should get that information. So I think we need to be responsive, just as Joshua was saying. Thank you. And yeah, go ahead.
00:42:51
Speaker
I was just going to say, if I could add one thing, it's that I learned all of this, as I said, from Josh and Leslie, to start. And so it would be to connect with your colleagues in OTR. That's my non-negotiable. Talk to others, learn from others. Everyone is willing to share.
00:43:05
Speaker
Everyone is willing to say what has worked and what hasn't worked and how they're doing at their institution. And each of us has some shared experience where we've either worked at the same institution or met through institution connection. And I think that that is my big takeaway is that I learned so much from these folks. And as you're sharing your perspectives, I'm like, oh, yes, this is embedded in my work because you taught me. So connect with your colleagues and learn from your colleagues. And, you know, when I tell folks, like,
00:43:32
Speaker
We have several more questions and the time is just not there. So maybe this is a teaser and you're engaged and you're writing things down and you're like, but I want more Corey, where do I get my subscription or however we want to pitch it. You folks listening can learn. This is an amazing opportunity for connection community, professional development.
00:43:53
Speaker
through the community of practice for orientation, transition and retention. Maybe you're listening and you're working at an institution and you're not a caucus member. So the first thing would be, see if you can get some support to join caucus. And then through the website and through the newsletters, you'll hear about the different COPs. Again, Corey made a great point about how many different offices
00:44:17
Speaker
and functional areas connect with orientation, transition, and retention. You might not always have it in your title, so I would heavily advocate any of the COPs, but do check out this one in particular, and you can find more information. I feel like I'm doing a sales pitch. You can find more information by going to, anyways.
00:44:37
Speaker
on the caucus website and the meetings are posted in the emails once you do become a member. So all this stuff and so much more can be found through these connections at conferences, but also virtually through informational interviews at the different meetings. There's so much knowledge to share that I think can meet all different types of learning. Just to end it,
00:45:02
Speaker
Because while I value all of the expertise that you all bring and the roles that you hold, we are so much more than adjust our titles. And for some folks, they maybe have never met any of us. And so for any of you Brenรฉ Brown fans, and if you have no idea who she is, please, please, please, please look her up. She does some great work around leadership and belonging. And so she does a rapid fire.
00:45:27
Speaker
She doesn't tell her folks the questions, but I don't want to be the one that the host that creates anxiety. So I'm just going to do three of the questions. And what's your jam right now? And I don't mean like strawberry rhubarb. I mean, what song is, is, you know, for those that are musically inclined, what's your jam? What do you,
00:45:47
Speaker
listening to what gives you life. What is a book that you've read that's impacted your practice? You can just say the book. I know we could probably write a whole book report on why, but we don't have that time. So if folks are interested on why this book has impacted, let's say Corey's practice, reach out to Corey. And what is a really great, insightful, thought provoking question a student has asked you? Is that awesome? Okay, people are like, please don't ask me first. Josh, what's your jam?
00:46:17
Speaker
Sure. So for music, it's Anything by Florence and the Machine. And for jam itself, it's Bumbleberry. Oh, okay. Leslie, your jam. Okay. She's technical. There we go. Sorry, I had navigated away because I forgot the name.
00:46:34
Speaker
But I've been listening to a lot of fun. And just yeah, it's it's my upbeat music and kind of gets me going. The other thing that I do because I work from home is I listen to a lot of like cafe jazz, cafe noises in the background. So helpful if you need to like zone out. Yeah. And Corey, what's your jam?
00:46:58
Speaker
I'm in a season of wedding planning right now. So September by Earth, Wind, and Fire is my jam because I'm getting married on September 21st. And caucus got to save the date before my own family did. So here we are. Oh, look at that. When are you getting married again? In Niagara on the lake at a winery. Sounds awful.
00:47:20
Speaker
All right, what's a book, folks, a book that's moved you, you go back to you've highlighted that you're just like, oh, it could be a children's book, it could be, you know, I'm looking at mine, all the wonderful books we read for class. Leslie, what's a book that's that's changed the way you think about the work that we do?
00:47:39
Speaker
Yeah, I think it's got to be research's ceremony by Sean Wilson about Indigenous research methods. It really, really completely shifted the way that I think about assessment and how we how we plan and how we assess and how we, the different ways of making meaning of the work that we do.
00:47:57
Speaker
Josh, thank you. People write this stuff now. So I just finished my master's in OISE in April. And so after having read like a million articles over five years about higher education, it's a bit of a blur. And I have a lingering fear of books. So I'm going to say, Oh, The Places You'll Go by Dr. Seuss, which is a classic for all of us orientation folks. Oh, everyone's hearts just melted a bit. Corey, what about you? I am similar to Josh. I am in the
00:48:25
Speaker
mixed of writing my dissertation, and I'm reading so much for that step, you know, that feeling. And the book that I most recently read that is connected is, they said this would be fun by attorney Martis. And I have
00:48:40
Speaker
learned so much from her in lots of things about the experience of students in Ontario. So I, um, I would say that's a great record. I gotta read that one. And I know I'm the host, but I'm going to, I'm going to promote my, my own friends when I can and humsicons leadership reinvented. Um, his book is fantastic. I think it ties into Leslie's point about humanizing the individuals, the radical empathy, um, we need to employ more often.
00:49:09
Speaker
in leadership and humps is fantastic. So go check them out. A question a student that has asked you that has stayed with you, I guess is the best way of putting it. Corey. Oh, what a good one. How did you graduate after you failed out?
00:49:32
Speaker
I failed out of my undergrad and I told a student that and they asked how I graduated after I failed out and it gave me this like perspective of students sometimes don't see that there is a life beyond academia when they're in the thick of it. So a productive conversation that I now lead every conversation and share that I dropped out. And you're going to be a doctor.
00:49:54
Speaker
I'm going to be a doctor. It can happen, people. It can happen. This is OTR at work. Yes, we have a dean here. And we have a dean here who failed out and now is a dean. And how beautiful. Leslie, what about you? Yeah.
00:50:07
Speaker
Um, I early in my career, a student asked me, uh, we were talking about the things that tell us we're in the wrong place. And they looked at me and said, so what's your line? What's your deal breaker? Uh, and so I, every single time I do training, I'm kind of like, Ooh, you need to know that going in where you're lying and like,
00:50:28
Speaker
Like, I think about this in terms of the career that you have and the choices that you make. If you don't know where your deal breaker line is, you can cross it very, very easily. So you need to understand what your values are and where you're prepared to be courageous and brave to stand up for your values. Gosh, if there was ever a safe interviewing space, I would make a phenomenal question. Josh, what about you?
00:50:54
Speaker
Yeah, so the philosophy major in me always likes the question why. So when a student asks me why, or second best question, why not, both related to why the university does things in a certain way or why the university doesn't do things in a certain way, those are always questions that I welcome. That is amazing.
00:51:16
Speaker
And so I hope that folks that are listening have learned something new. That's my most basic learning outcome. Whenever we do something, did you learn something new? And may it have been about orientation? Because I think we did the what, so what, now what in the best of our abilities in 50 some minutes. And I think this just reiterated, even though I know we all know this, no matter what functional area we're in, our students are our best teachers. So I just want to say thank you.
00:51:46
Speaker
to the three of you for taking time, for getting up early-ish, because we're coming in from all over the country, and also to the folks behind the scenes that are doing the work. There's no way we could do this without you. So to the caucus world listening, thank you so much. Have a wonderful rest of the day. And keep changing the world, just one conversation at a time. Thanks, everyone.
00:52:28
Speaker
The Caucus 50 Oral History Project is an initiative of the Canadian Association of College and University Student Services in recognition of our organization's 50 years of engaging student affairs professionals in Canada. The series of podcasts is recorded and produced by Sean Fast, Adam Kuehn, Nicholas Fast, Rachel Barreca, Stephanie Mulettoller, Noah Arney, Sally Chen, Estefania Toledo, Paula Jean Broderick, Jennifer Brown, Margaret De Leon,
00:52:58
Speaker
and Becca Gray. Intro and outro music is courtesy of Alexei Stryapji. This podcast is recorded, produced, and published on the traditional territories of hundreds of Indigenous nations from across the northern half of Turtle Island, also known by its settler-colonial name, Canada. We are grateful for the opportunity to live, work, and learn on this land. Miigwetch.