Transcript
Speaker: Take me out to the ball game Take me out with the crowd Buy me some peanuts and cracker jack I don't care if I never get back Let me root, root, root for the home team If they don't win, it's a shame
Speaker: Hello, welcome to Curious Objects, I'm Ben Miller, and with me is Michael D.S.
Speaker: Griffith.
Speaker: And today on the eve of game six of the World Series, we're going to discuss baseball cards.
Speaker: But it's kind of funny how we got around to this subject because it actually all started with a YouTube video that I'm guessing a lot of listeners probably have seen back in the day.
Speaker: Michael, when did you first see the Honey Badger video?
Speaker: You know, it's possible that I saw it right when it came out, when I was
Speaker: a high school teacher and constantly being shown memes and YouTube videos by my students.
Speaker: I think 2011, perhaps?
Speaker: Yeah, that goes way back to the early days of viral videos.
Speaker: And it's been watched, I think, 90 million times.
Speaker: So, yeah, anyone who hasn't seen it already should probably stop listening to this podcast right now and go Google Honey Badger video.
Speaker: Um...
Speaker: Be prepared.
Speaker: It has absolutely nothing to do with antique, material culture, object, curious or otherwise, or even baseball.
Speaker: But it's still relevant because... Right, because Randall, the famous producer of the video, just so happens to be a serious collector of baseball cards.
Speaker: And when I found that out, I thought, how much fun would it be to talk about baseball cards, you know, the quintessential American object of collecting?
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: And, you know, I think that even though this is kind of a new topic for us, it makes a lot of sense because baseball cards, stamps, other collectibles that we don't talk about a lot are actually collectibles.
Speaker: most people's entree into collecting, right?
Speaker: I mean, I collected baseball cards.
Speaker: That actually really surprises me.
Speaker: I never did.
Speaker: I mean, I was growing up in the South, and it's just kind of what boys had to do in the rural culture that I grew up in.
Speaker: But I enjoyed it, you know?
Speaker: It was fun to kind of learn about my father's favorite players.
Speaker: It was an access point to history.
Speaker: I think that's what I liked about it.
Speaker: But I, you know, one thing that was sort of interesting to me, thinking about doing a conversation with Randall, is that, you know, it just struck me that it's, there are not very many people out there in the world who don't have some kind of relationship with some kind of curious object.
Speaker: And almost everyone is in some way a collector of something.
Speaker: which means that really we could have almost anyone in the world on as a guest of this podcast, I think, and find something relevant to talk about.
Speaker: Yeah, no, and I think that, you know, a baseball card collector may see himself as a collector, but we wouldn't necessarily assume that like the mechanisms of collecting are the same from one discipline to another when they kind of are.
Speaker: I mean, there are a lot of similarities
Speaker: when you talk to someone like Randall and someone who collects perhaps high-end furniture or silver in terms of the way they think about objects.
Speaker: And I love to sort of, I mean, I'm just realizing that what you're describing is this widespread respect for and interest in objects that, yeah, is more widespread than perhaps we even think about in our day-to-day practice then.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Well, and one of the funny things about baseball cards, I mean, they're not necessarily antiques.
Speaker: I mean, some of them are quite old, but some of them are quite new.
Speaker: Even some new baseball cards are pretty valuable.
Speaker: But I'm...
Speaker: they do follow some of the same rules, as you say, of collecting in terms of, you know, rarity, condition, you know, authenticity is certainly a big issue.
Speaker: And yeah, to me, it's interesting that, I mean, you know, one thing that is always compelling to me about antiques, maybe the most compelling thing to me about antiques is the story that they tell about the world around them.
Speaker: And, you know, I'm really interested to get into this with baseball cards and find out what they can tell us about the history they represent, you know, both on the side of sports and athletics, but also just, you know, American history.
Speaker: Absolutely.
Speaker: You know, and I think you're describing some of the finer points of connoisseurship, right, which baseball card collectors certainly do follow.
Speaker: And at the same time, I know from my own experience that they're looking for cards that align with their passions, you know?
Speaker: So, like, they love Nolan Bryant's season in 19-whatever, and they want the card that kind of brings that magical moment in the player's career physically into their orbit, you know?
Speaker: So they're thinking about authenticity and condition, but balancing that with their
Speaker: you know, the classic collector's thirst for the object that they want for a more personal or perhaps slightly less rational reason.
Speaker: And it will be interesting to hear about Randall's view on that balance between, you know, connoisseurship and all of the sort of objective standards that we bring to bear on collecting and pure passion, because I know from experience that baseball card collectors have a lot of that's
Speaker: Well, and I have to say, based on the Honey Badger video, I think it's going to be fascinating to hear Randall talk about just about anything under the sun.
Speaker: So I'm pretty excited about that.
Speaker: And hopefully we won't have to bleep out too many curse words.
Speaker: Time will tell.
Speaker: Add to the character of the podcast.
Speaker: All right, Michael.
Speaker: Well, thanks.
Speaker: And let's get right to Randall.
Speaker: Have a great chat, Ben.
Speaker: Curious Objects is sponsored by Freemans.
Speaker: Since 1805, Freemans has been part of the fabric of Philadelphia, helping generations of clients in the buying and selling of fine and decorative arts, jewelry, modern design, and more.
Speaker: Today, they are a dynamic international auction house with a year-round sales season and a team of dedicated specialists committed to personalized service.
Speaker: Freemans is excited to announce the upcoming single-owner auction,
Speaker: A Grand Old Flag, the Stars and Stripes collection of Peter J. Keim.
Speaker: Learn more about this collection of historic American flags and the upcoming auction at freemansauction.com.
Speaker: Freeman's, Philadelphia's auction house, sharing the world of art, design, and jewelry with you, wherever you are.
Speaker: Hi.
Speaker: Hello there.
Speaker: I'm so happy to be talking to you.
Speaker: And I am so thrilled to be speaking with you, Ben.
Speaker: Thank you so much.
Speaker: I love all objects that are curious in nature.
Speaker: Well, you've come to the right podcast then.
Speaker: I think there's a lot that we could talk about.
Speaker: But there's something that I was really interested in asking you about.
Speaker: Because I heard that there's something that you collect.
Speaker: that a kind of object that you collect that really is kind of like the quintessential object to collect.
Speaker: Yes, I happen to adore and love collecting baseball cards.
Speaker: Pure Americana.
Speaker: Baseball cards.
Speaker: I just love it.
Speaker: It's as American as baseball and apple pie, right?
Speaker: Absolutely.
Speaker: And if I had my druthers, I would be collecting different apple pies from around the country, but I just can't.
Speaker: You know, I tried, but every time I get one, I just, I eat it.
Speaker: Oh, that's a problem.
Speaker: I think I've experienced a similar problem.
Speaker: Well, so let's talk about baseball cards.
Speaker: How do you even collect baseball cards?
Speaker: How do you get them?
Speaker: Okay, so there is rather such a difference between how one accumulates baseball cards and collects baseball cards today comparatively to how we used to back in the day.
Speaker: Now, when I started out collecting cards in the late 70s,
Speaker: Or perhaps, oh, much later than that.
Speaker: I'm not that old.
Speaker: Yes, I'm sure.
Speaker: Anyways, you were able to get them from other friends.
Speaker: You were able to trade.
Speaker: You were able to go to stores.
Speaker: They had actual baseball card shops that you can go to, and you can get comic books and baseball cards.
Speaker: Also, you can just go right up the street to the newsstand and get some baseball packs.
Speaker: Nowadays, it's online.
Speaker: Everything is practically either online or if you're lucky enough to have a local baseball card show in your neighborhood or in your city or town,
Speaker: You can attend that, but for the most part, you're doing all of your shopping online.
Speaker: So that's a good bulk of how I get my cards these days is by going online using the internet.
Speaker: So let's go back in time a little because you started collecting cards when you were a kid, right?
Speaker: Yes, I did.
Speaker: So when you were a kid, how did you get your hands on these things?
Speaker: And what made you interested?
Speaker: Like what was it that got you excited about them?
Speaker: You know, I was always a baseball fan.
Speaker: And growing up, I had a lot of time to myself being an only child.
Speaker: And both my mom and papa were out doing whatevers.
Speaker: And so for me, I guess I just always felt this need to collect.
Speaker: And while to this day I still collect pets...
Speaker: Thank you very much.
Speaker: I have some parakeets and hamsters and guinea pigs.
Speaker: I have a rabbit and cats.
Speaker: But, you know, you can't just keep collecting pets or wildlife or things like this.
Speaker: So with baseball cards, what's really fabulous about it, and I've always admired, are the designs with which these companies use, the photos, the photography that these companies use to take photos of these majestic baseball players and
Speaker: And the collectability factor, the rarity of some of these cards, the going back and forth and arguing over the condition of one of a card, it got me so fast.
Speaker: I was just so interested and fascinated by them.
Speaker: And I just, again, I just happen to love baseball.
Speaker: So one thing just sort of led to another.
Speaker: And mind you, Ben, I only collect baseball cards.
Speaker: You know, there are some other collectors out there who do football and basketball.
Speaker: And they have, you know, basically cards for all sorts of different, they have cards for all sorts of different sports and non-sports.
Speaker: But for me, it's just baseball.
Speaker: Because you really don't like basketball or hockey or football.
Speaker: I mean, you know, they're exciting to watch.
Speaker: But for me, it's, you know, baseball is the number one sport just because it's timeless.
Speaker: There's no pressure.
Speaker: You take your time.
Speaker: It could be a two-hour game.
Speaker: It could be a five-hour game.
Speaker: Who knows?
Speaker: And I just love the mystery of it all.
Speaker: And what got me really interested in collecting was I was at school as a little one, and I'd see all my friends playing around with cards.
Speaker: And I said, hey, I want to try some of this.
Speaker: So for me, it was a way of getting in socially.
Speaker: Just, you know, start out to be able to schmooze with some pals and
Speaker: get to talking over collecting cards.
Speaker: Yeah, I think a lot of collectors can identify with that.
Speaker: Yeah, for sure.
Speaker: And it doesn't matter what you collect.
Speaker: It's always fun to be social and to create groups and get online or even in person and discuss things.
Speaker: Okay, so take us even farther back in time because...
Speaker: Normally on this podcast, what I'm talking about is pretty darn old stuff.
Speaker: 100 plus year old objects, proper antiques.
Speaker: Baseball cards, though, I mean, some of them are pretty old, right?
Speaker: When did they actually start making baseball cards?
Speaker: Well, you know, they do actually get fairly old.
Speaker: Some of the earliest baseball cards you can find in the late 19th century, around the 1890s, you would find a lot of baseball cards that were published and printed and distributed, actually, oddly enough, in tobacco, packs of tobacco cigarettes.
Speaker: And recently I'll have you know that the Honus Wagner T206 card went on auction and fetched an astounding $1.35 million.
Speaker: So there are cards from... Those are U.S. dollars.
Speaker: U.S. dollars, yes.
Speaker: $1.3 million American dollars.
Speaker: Yes.
Speaker: For a card.
Speaker: For a baseball card.
Speaker: A little card.
Speaker: You betcha.
Speaker: Wow.
Speaker: Why?
Speaker: And who's this guy, Honus Wagner?
Speaker: So Honus Wagner was a shortstop for the Pittsburgh Pirates.
Speaker: And he was very, very much against smoking, very anti-tobacco.
Speaker: So when he found out that they were printing cards of him and using his
Speaker: uh likeness and putting it into cards he said i don't want that for the kids in other words the only way to get these cards when you were a kid is that hopefully you know you weren't smoking but an adult would give you the card they would open up the pack of cigarettes and say hey here's a card for you kid so smoking was fun for parents and children
Speaker: I mean, hasn't that always been the case?
Speaker: As you can see right now, they're having so much fun with these vapes.
Speaker: Oh, it's so exciting.
Speaker: Oh, yeah.
Speaker: Family fun.
Speaker: It's funny because then other companies later on would catch on.
Speaker: You would find baseball cards in Wonder Bread, in Kellogg's Cereal, Hostess Cupcakes.
Speaker: On the back of boxes, you could just cut out the cards.
Speaker: So, eventually...
Speaker: Other companies got privy to what Honus Wagner wanted, and that was easier access for children to be able to get baseball cards.
Speaker: So that's what makes that card over a million dollars is the fact that he couldn't stand smoking.
Speaker: And so therefore, not many were printed.
Speaker: That's the other thing.
Speaker: Not many were printed.
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: So they're very rare.
Speaker: Yes.
Speaker: So are these the most expensive baseball cards that exist, these Honus Wagner cards?
Speaker: They are indeed.
Speaker: They are.
Speaker: And then I would gather right behind it is the Mickey Mantle rookie card, which sometimes can fetch if it's in pristine condition, meaning the corners are so sharp you can kill someone with it.
Speaker: Not that you would.
Speaker: But why would you want?
Speaker: Of course.
Speaker: Of course not.
Speaker: But it is the perfect murder weapon.
Speaker: But anyways, Ben, I digress.
Speaker: It is about, I'd say, they can run up to about half a million.
Speaker: But what's really interesting to me is like these days, you know, you have players, contemporaries like Mike Trout, who's one of baseball's greatest players today, who first came into playing baseball in the year 2011.
Speaker: He his cards, he presently has over 11,000 cards that one could collect amounting to if they're all in great condition, three quarters of a million dollars.
Speaker: Wow.
Speaker: So it's funny because there was a big lull for a while in the industry and in the hobby and in the world of collecting baseball cards.
Speaker: in the 80s they just mass produced them.
Speaker: And then what got really interesting and what was really fun was later on the printings started getting a little more limited and now more special.
Speaker: Now there's only just Topps and Panini Donruss
Speaker: Whereas back in the day, there was Tops, Fleer, Donruss.
Speaker: Then they had offshoots like Sport Flicks and all these other sort of one-offs.
Speaker: And a lot of them did not seek the permission from Major League Baseball to show...
Speaker: the team uniform or so it's really funny because back in the day sometimes you would see a card and they had the colors of the uniform but they airbrushed everything out it's really interesting stuff for copyright reasons or trademark reasons
Speaker: Exactly.
Speaker: Back when they cared about IP and trademark.
Speaker: So there's a lot of ins and outs to this business and this process of collecting.
Speaker: So tell me about your collection.
Speaker: So how many baseball cards do you own?
Speaker: Oh, sweet, sweet Joseph.
Speaker: Let me tell you something.
Speaker: I must have, I'd say, 50,000 cards.
Speaker: I'm just taking a guess.
Speaker: Oh, my God.
Speaker: It's got to be at least 50,000 because I have a lot of sets and a lot of builds.
Speaker: And it's just – I'm telling you, when I was a child and I started collecting them, it just really caught on and it snowballed.
Speaker: And for me, especially during such crazy times as we're experiencing politically today, I think it's important to have a hobby or something that one collects to take their mind off things.
Speaker: I mean, at the end of the day, sometimes I'll have such a stressful day.
Speaker: But to just sort of unwind and to organize my cards and to get them in the place, to me, they're just like – it's like having a little Monet's or a little Warhol's, you know, or having 16th century silvers, silver utensils.
Speaker: I mean, for me, there really is no difference in that I'm on the hunt for cards just as anyone else is on a hunt for anything that they may collect.
Speaker: Okay, but I don't know too many collectors of 16th century English silver who have 50,000 objects.
Speaker: That's a big collection.
Speaker: Well, that's and that's what makes it such a curious hobby and collection in itself is the fact that I can just go about my day and find a treasure.
Speaker: Actually, it's very funny you say that because I just had a friend recently, my friend Roman.
Speaker: He came over and he said, do you know if you have, I think it was the 1972 Nolan Ryan card?
Speaker: And I said, I don't know.
Speaker: I think I used to.
Speaker: But I do.
Speaker: But I do.
Speaker: So he left and hours later I was looking through my card and I found it.
Speaker: So to me, it's...
Speaker: That's part of the fun.
Speaker: But sometimes I actually don't want to look at every single card.
Speaker: I just want to know that I have it.
Speaker: And I know that I can turn around and I can make – if someone says, hey, do you have that Roberto Clemente 1969 tops?
Speaker: Because if you do, I would love to make a trade with you.
Speaker: I can do that trade.
Speaker: It will take me a bit to find it.
Speaker: But I'll do the trade.
Speaker: To me, that's exciting.
Speaker: It's funny because for a lot of collectors, like the fun of collecting is finding that, you know, that diamond in the rough, that hidden thing that is out in the world somewhere.
Speaker: But for you, maybe that hidden thing is already in your collection.
Speaker: You just don't know where to find it.
Speaker: It's happened to me so many times.
Speaker: It's happened to me so many times.
Speaker: And I just feel so like I just kept saying to myself, oh, wow, I really got to have this 1964 Sandy Koufax.
Speaker: I really like it because Sandy Koufax, who is to me one of the finest pitchers to ever play the game.
Speaker: He it's such a great portrait of him.
Speaker: You know, a lot of these cards, the photography is great.
Speaker: And what's really amazing is back in the days from, say, the 40s, even before then to the 50s, they hand painted.
Speaker: a lot of the portraits and images of these baseball players but i needed this 1964 tops because i was like oh my gosh this is such an amazing i already had one but i went out of my way i went to a show i'm on a hunt for it i get it i come home i'm so excited and i kept thinking to myself it looked like i the back of the card was the ringer i was like it looks so familiar
Speaker: So I pushed aside my hamsters and I lifted up this one shoe box and it was in there.
Speaker: By golly.
Speaker: But then what's great is I have two.
Speaker: So now I can trade one off and keep the other.
Speaker: That's really something.
Speaker: If you had 50,000 15th century English spoon or utensil, maybe you're being in a great position because you could just sort of trade at will and sell at will.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Well, so I'm interested in it because you were telling me that you, I mean, you buy and sell cards and you trade cards.
Speaker: So, you know, for some collectors, it's all about, you know, once I get something, you know, I'm going to keep it forever.
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: But you're kind of cycling in and out and, you know...
Speaker: Didn't you used to have some cards that were super valuable and then you kind of traded them for other cards?
Speaker: Yes.
Speaker: What's the story behind that?
Speaker: That is true.
Speaker: Oh, goodness.
Speaker: I had a 1933 Gowdy Babe Ruth.
Speaker: Gowdy was... Babe Ruth.
Speaker: Now, there's a baseball player I've heard of.
Speaker: There you go.
Speaker: Now, this Babe Ruth, I'm telling you.
Speaker: Now, you know, which came first?
Speaker: The candy bar or the player?
Speaker: The player, of course.
Speaker: But anyways, let me tell you something.
Speaker: Babe Ruth, I have this card.
Speaker: It's in beautiful shape.
Speaker: And I got rid of it because I knew that I wanted to have some other cards.
Speaker: But also, it's like the stock market.
Speaker: You see, you can invest, or it's like fine art, where you can invest in one card, sit on it,
Speaker: And hopefully – and I don't mean in a bad way.
Speaker: Like, hey, go sit on it.
Speaker: I mean you invest.
Speaker: You hold on to it.
Speaker: That's what I'm going to say.
Speaker: You hold on to it.
Speaker: And then later, you double what you paid out for and then you can go ahead and trade it.
Speaker: Now you're going to get another car that you really initially wanted.
Speaker: But you held on to this so you can get it.
Speaker: I mean, it's really exciting.
Speaker: But yes, I've had the pleasure of, you know, when I was a kid, I would go to all these baseball card shows in and around New York City.
Speaker: They were like...
Speaker: Monthly.
Speaker: Really, they would have all these different hotels, the Roosevelt Hotel, Pennsylvania Hotel, where they would just open the doors in the ballroom.
Speaker: They would just have all these players signing cards and have all these dealers.
Speaker: I don't know what it's like in New York.
Speaker: Now that I'm out here in L.A., the scene is kind of...
Speaker: It's good.
Speaker: They have a few shops.
Speaker: And it's not as... The shows aren't as frequent as they used to be, but they do exist.
Speaker: I mean, I guess, you know, at the end of the day, it's... I don't know if you've noticed this in terms of collecting and collecting things and items, but I'll tell you, really, with the invention of the internet, it's made people lazier.
Speaker: The hunt, it isn't as valued as it used to be.
Speaker: It doesn't mean as much...
Speaker: That's what really worries me and I find interesting is someone who is now maybe, you know, who's a kid, 10 years old, teenager.
Speaker: When they start collecting, it's completely different than when I collected or say when you collected it too.
Speaker: It's different.
Speaker: Well, there are no secrets anymore, right?
Speaker: That's exactly it.
Speaker: That's right.
Speaker: And nowadays, what's interesting too in the world of baseball cards is everyone wants something authenticated.
Speaker: There are some major companies, PSA, Beckett, BCCG, where you send your cards and your merchandise to them and they say, oh, yes, I'm going to go.
Speaker: Oh, look at this coin.
Speaker: This is about an 8, and it's graded on a scale of 1 to 10.
Speaker: An 8 would be about near mint, 10 being a perfect gem.
Speaker: But basically it's really interesting because if it's not graded, you're not going to get as much money for it than if it were.
Speaker: So that's another thing that has completely changed –
Speaker: collecting and the hobby in itself.
Speaker: But a lot of these cards are just... They are really old.
Speaker: You know, pre-World War II, and you have a lot of... I mean, it's really funny to say that, but those are considered old cards now.
Speaker: Sure.
Speaker: You know, cards from the 40s.
Speaker: Well, that was 80 years ago now.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: So what...
Speaker: Yeah, so I'm interested in that because as we said at the start, baseball is a pretty quintessentially American activity and baseball cards are pretty quintessentially American.
Speaker: I mean, you have so many of these cards from a lot of different time periods.
Speaker: What's your oldest card?
Speaker: I'm curious about that.
Speaker: And I'm also just curious, what kind of a story does your collection tell about America?
Speaker: Oh, that's really interesting.
Speaker: I mean, I have cards of
Speaker: Aside from Jackie Robinson, I have a few Jackie Robinson cards, I'm so pleased to say.
Speaker: But aside from Jackie Robinson, you know, aside from being the first African-American to play Major League Baseball, he was, there were others, obviously, that followed in his footsteps.
Speaker: You have Larry Doby, who was the second.
Speaker: And he went through a lot of turmoil as well.
Speaker: I have a lot of his cards.
Speaker: I have Satchel Paige's rookie card, which is one of my prized baseball cards.
Speaker: I believe it's a 1953 Topps.
Speaker: And he was in the Negro Leagues.
Speaker: As you may or may not know, baseball was segregated.
Speaker: They had what they called the Negro Leagues, and then they had Major League Baseball.
Speaker: And it wasn't until, I believe...
Speaker: 1947 49 when jackie robinson broke the color barrier um right but so many of those cards um you know they didn't even make so that satchel page to me is very valuable because he made it to the major leagues at such an old age and he was so many before him uh his contemporaries
Speaker: Seriously.
Speaker: Yeah, seriously.
Speaker: This guy was way into his mid-40s, early 40s when he came up.
Speaker: That's one of my favorite cards that I have.
Speaker: I also have a Sandy Koufax rookie because I just love him and adore him.
Speaker: And I think that – I think what's so fascinating about him and his career was just how short it was, yet how dominant it was at the same time.
Speaker: Roberto Clemente's rookie card.
Speaker: Roberto Clemente, to me, was just an astounding player.
Speaker: just like a gazelle he was like a gazelle running around in the outfield um and to have his rookie card means a lot to me so there there are some things that i have in my collection that i know i won't part with but then there are some older cards like that babe ruth well i mean i also had a lou gehrig same time period 33 gaudy and gaudy by the way was a bubblegum company back in the 30s um okay and they not a tobacco company
Speaker: Not a tobacco company, exactly.
Speaker: So they were probably one of the first non-tobacco companies to put out baseball cards.
Speaker: And earliest card I have is probably a 1909 double header card.
Speaker: So what they decided to do was in these big tobacco packs, they would have a card that would fold in half
Speaker: So you can have two players on one card, which is really funny because he would flip up and then you would have the longer picture would be someone else.
Speaker: But then you put it down and then you have the other picture.
Speaker: They were sharing the same legs.
Speaker: Why would they try to fool kids and people like this?
Speaker: Those aren't his legs.
Speaker: Those are his legs.
Speaker: I'd always say.
Speaker: But so one of my earliest is I have a Mercedes Brown 1909 double header card like that.
Speaker: But and what makes that so special was Mercedes Brown had only three fingers on his pitching hand.
Speaker: Oh, wow.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: And he was a legend.
Speaker: He was able to come up with some crazy pitches with just those three fingers on his throwing hand.
Speaker: Were there pitches that only he could do?
Speaker: That's a great question.
Speaker: I don't know.
Speaker: You know, probably simply because no one else figured to do it.
Speaker: But he, you know, because he didn't have any choice.
Speaker: You know, when you only have three fingers on your pitching hand, you have to come up with something.
Speaker: I guess necessity is the mother of invention.
Speaker: Oh, it's a mother of right.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: We'll take a quick break and be right back with more Randall.
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Speaker: Since 1805, Freeman's has been part of the fabric of Philadelphia, helping generations of clients in the buying and selling of fine and decorative arts, jewelry, modern design, and more.
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Speaker: and a team of dedicated specialists committed to personalized service.
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Speaker: It makes a big difference and helps more people to find the podcast.
Speaker: There are, as always, pictures on the web at themagazineantiques.com slash podcast.
Speaker: So be sure to check that out.
Speaker: Okay, let's get back to Randall and his baseball cards.
Speaker: Okay, so wait, so you have a card going back to 1909.
Speaker: You have cards from the 40s.
Speaker: I imagine you have cards from probably just about every decade between then and now.
Speaker: So when you look through those cards, I mean, you said they started, they used to be hand-painted.
Speaker: Now they're not hand-painted anymore.
Speaker: What else changed?
Speaker: I mean, what changed about the cards?
Speaker: And what does that tell you?
Speaker: Does that tell you stuff about history from a lens that people wouldn't normally see it?
Speaker: That's a great question.
Speaker: So, yeah, you can learn a lot about America through these baseball cards in that you can see...
Speaker: Looking at the player's eyes over time is something I love to do.
Speaker: You know, you look at these guys from all the cards pre, I'd say, 1955 or so.
Speaker: Everyone looks so tired and weathered.
Speaker: Tired, really?
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: And then as you get into the 60s, you start seeing some players have longer hair.
Speaker: Now they have big beards.
Speaker: Now in the 70s, some of them are kind of chubby.
Speaker: And then when you get into... I'm not kidding, Ben.
Speaker: It's really outrageous.
Speaker: All the baseball players got chubby in the 70s.
Speaker: They really did.
Speaker: They got chubby in the 70s.
Speaker: It was fashionable.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: I'm telling you, gluttony was really in in those boring 70s.
Speaker: And then you start seeing as the players start making more money, they start taking better care of themselves.
Speaker: So now, and like up to, you know, from the, let's say the 90s to now, the players start getting in better shape.
Speaker: They start looking happier because they're making...
Speaker: hundreds of millions of dollars every season um that would make me happy that would make me are you kidding me i'll smile for any card uh picture you take for a baseball i mean it's it's really funny because they rarely used to smile back in the day and now on all these cards they're either playing you see them like you know hitting or fielding or if it's a portrait they're smiling
Speaker: And they're actually doing new stuff with cards these days, right?
Speaker: Where it's not just a card anymore.
Speaker: That's right.
Speaker: What they started doing was they have special inserts in a pack you'll get or in a box of cards.
Speaker: packs, you'll get special things like a random card sign, perhaps by your favorite player.
Speaker: You get what they call a relic card, which features either a piece of a game-used bat or a game-worn jersey or pants.
Speaker: And
Speaker: You see, it's funny because I guess in the 80s, they thought the best way to entice people and folks to collect was to just create a whole bunch of them and to just mass produce.
Speaker: And then as the years went on and right now, what they figured was less is more and let's give incentive.
Speaker: Like we're only going to have –
Speaker: five of these cards of this player featuring a piece of their jersey.
Speaker: You know, we're only going to have 20 signatures from this player.
Speaker: Yeah, so they're creating artificial scarcity.
Speaker: Yes.
Speaker: And the artificial scarcity is really – it's driving everything right now.
Speaker: I mean a lot of these cards are going for thousands of dollars because not only is the – I mean the player always has to be great, right?
Speaker: That's the thing.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: If they're not such a superstar, these cards wouldn't be worth as much.
Speaker: But to get a Mike Trout that's signed and there are only like 10 of them, that card's going to be a lot of money.
Speaker: In fact, there are cards like that where he, I think it was a 2009 Bowman draft card where he signed a few.
Speaker: It's $8,000.
Speaker: Wow.
Speaker: For a 10-year-old card.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: But I'm really intrigued by this idea of, you know, including, I mean, a signature is cool because it ties you in a physical way to that player.
Speaker: It means that it's not just a card that was, you know, somebody took a picture and they put it on a card and printed a bunch of them and now you have it.
Speaker: But now there's actually a connection.
Speaker: You know, the player touched that card.
Speaker: And if you have it, you're tied to that player.
Speaker: But and then this this new idea of of having, you know, bits of the jersey or whatever it is, you know, physical artifacts that are associated with the player.
Speaker: That's pretty cool.
Speaker: I mean, there's something really compelling psychologically about having an object that, you know, that that really has that that phenomenal logical
Speaker: I completely agree.
Speaker: I completely agree.
Speaker: And that's it is.
Speaker: I like to say it's their little pieces of history.
Speaker: Literally, I mean, just because like they'll also include bits of seats from ballparks that no longer exist.
Speaker: To me, that's definitely a piece of history.
Speaker: Oh, and some other, I think it was, yes, Tops put out cards commemorating World War II, and they too randomly had surviving soldiers sign some of the cards.
Speaker: So that's amazing.
Speaker: Yeah, that's amazing to me.
Speaker: I happen to have a Battle of the Bulge baseball card signed by three surviving Battle of the Bulge soldiers.
Speaker: No kidding.
Speaker: No kidding.
Speaker: So, I mean, that is a surefire way to get people involved with history, you know.
Speaker: I mean, I wouldn't – that's what makes it exciting for me.
Speaker: I mean, Battle of the Bulge, a lot of the war and stuff like that, I really can do without.
Speaker: But now that you have it in a baseball pack, now that there's a chance for me to get that, now that I can get this thing, I'm totally interested.
Speaker: And then I read up on it.
Speaker: I mean, I just think that's so interesting.
Speaker: And we were talking one time and you had an amazing idea.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Well, should we tell people about it?
Speaker: No.
Speaker: I just wanted to say that you had.
Speaker: Antique baseball cards.
Speaker: Ben here says antique baseball cards.
Speaker: And I say to myself, oh, my goodness.
Speaker: This is what an amazing.
Speaker: It's brilliant.
Speaker: You can learn so much.
Speaker: Yeah, I want someone to make those because I want to collect them.
Speaker: Exactly.
Speaker: And so do I. And then that'll be the thing.
Speaker: And then we can trade.
Speaker: I could say, hey, I can call you up and say, hey, I got that spoon that you've been looking for.
Speaker: You could say, oh, I got that weather vane.
Speaker: You know, I got that weather vane from the 17th century that you were looking for.
Speaker: I'm telling you, whenever...
Speaker: I don't know.
Speaker: I just I love that you can learn about the baseball player, you know, on the on the back.
Speaker: I'm getting their stats.
Speaker: I'm getting little quick clips about where they live, how old they are, what they did.
Speaker: And in addition to that, yeah, this, you know, that switch from the art, hand painted art into now photography, they're actually starting to bring back
Speaker: the hand painted and the art to baseball cards, which is really exciting.
Speaker: But what's really interesting is that they're only available online.
Speaker: You see, Topps has a website where they've hired artists to go back to creating those cards, but they're only available online.
Speaker: And a lot of other card companies are starting to do that now, too, where they have exclusives that are only online.
Speaker: So I don't know.
Speaker: I mean, the days of just sort of magic findings, unless you're at a swap meet, you know, unless you go to swap meet or you visit someone's estate and they're giving them the I mean, I've heard amazing stories from people who just find.
Speaker: You know, it's like antique roadshow or antique.
Speaker: But for baseball cards, same thing can happen where a lot of folks just don't know.
Speaker: I mean, you know, you've heard that story so many times, right?
Speaker: Where, oh, my father's brother's friend put it a spoke.
Speaker: His mother threw out all the cards and comics.
Speaker: They were doing target practice and they threw the cards in the sky.
Speaker: I mean, no one takes good care.
Speaker: It's really funny because here you have something that's collectible.
Speaker: Yet at the same time, it's also something that's taken for granted so many times.
Speaker: I mean, you wouldn't take a spoon and throw it around or do whatever with it.
Speaker: You wouldn't take a fork or or iron cast.
Speaker: I mean, it's just really funny to me.
Speaker: But it's oh, look, here's a shaker.
Speaker: Look at this beautiful chair for the Quakers created it.
Speaker: Oh, no, don't.
Speaker: What are you doing?
Speaker: I'm putting it on the street.
Speaker: I'm going to rock around.
Speaker: What are you talking about?
Speaker: Put my baseball cards down.
Speaker: Ben, I'm telling you, I can kill my mom.
Speaker: She used to take my baseball cards and pick her teeth with them sometimes.
Speaker: Oh, my God.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Isn't that gross?
Speaker: What, she ran out of dental floss?
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: No floss.
Speaker: I'll just use this card.
Speaker: What is she thinking?
Speaker: There is a there's a tankard, a silver, an old silver tankard that has a bullet hole through it that was left by a musket ball during the Revolutionary War.
Speaker: So, you know, even even silver got abused sometimes.
Speaker: You know, if it's out there, it's it's subject to anything that comes its way, really.
Speaker: Okay, so what are you looking for?
Speaker: What's the next card that you're striving to find?
Speaker: I'm looking to find some more of today's contemporary rookie cards.
Speaker: You know, I've been watching and enjoying a lot of these games that they play in the postseason as the season has ended and now we're heading into the postseason.
Speaker: So a lot of these players are really intriguing to me and I'm going to try and focus, I think, on getting some of the newer guys because it's affordable right now.
Speaker: And I know that these cards are definitely going to jump up in value over time.
Speaker: So for me, I think that's the kind of thing I'm going to, you know, over the years, my collection has been focusing on sort of keeping like I'll hoard it.
Speaker: I'll get a lot of them and I just sit on them, which is why like, yeah, sure.
Speaker: Fifty thousand.
Speaker: I don't know what they all look like or I may have forgotten where they are, but I know I have it.
Speaker: So for me, like what I'll do is I got very into collecting unopened things, meaning a box of baseball cards to have like 24 packs inside rather than open them up and rip through all the packs.
Speaker: I'm keeping it sealed.
Speaker: I'm keeping it sealed.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: So you don't even know who's inside.
Speaker: I have no idea.
Speaker: But it's going to be exciting five years from now or 10 years from now to open it.
Speaker: Or to offer it to someone.
Speaker: And they'll say, oh my, and that's what I've been doing.
Speaker: I found, I'm telling you, I have recently been trading a bunch of unopened boxes from the 80s from people who are going cuckoo.
Speaker: And they're trading me their older cards for it.
Speaker: Wow.
Speaker: Is this a King Tut's tomb thing?
Speaker: Is there a curse on these boxes?
Speaker: Whoever opens them is going to die some horrible death.
Speaker: No, but I like the idea of that.
Speaker: You know, Halloween's coming up, and that's a good spooky story.
Speaker: If you don't open up this, the ghost of Babe Ruth's going to come running after you and eat all of your hot dogs.
Speaker: I think you just gave me a good Halloween costume idea.
Speaker: Oh, see?
Speaker: But I love your antique baseball card idea.
Speaker: They could even do history baseball cards.
Speaker: They can even do civil rights baseball cards.
Speaker: And they've done a lot of baseball cards for a lot of different things.
Speaker: I don't know if you know that they had Operation Desert Storm baseball cards.
Speaker: Wow.
Speaker: They, of course, have popular Star Wars baseball cards.
Speaker: They have them for movies and TV shows.
Speaker: But...
Speaker: Yeah, I mean, they ought to do it for every subject and everything else that's out there.
Speaker: Well, if anyone who's listening right now owns a tobacco company, take note.
Speaker: We want you to make cards for everything, but especially antiques.
Speaker: Yes.
Speaker: And buying a pack is the only way that we'll ever be able to get them.
Speaker: All right.
Speaker: Thanks so much for joining me.
Speaker: This is a lot of fun.
Speaker: I learned a lot about baseball cards.
Speaker: Well, thank you.
Speaker: It was a pleasure speaking with you.
Speaker: I mean, I just...
Speaker: I love collecting.
Speaker: For me, it doesn't matter.
Speaker: When I was little and I was collecting these cards, it was then I just started realizing the love of collecting and collections.
Speaker: And I think that they really do mean something to our society.
Speaker: So it was great speaking with you.
Speaker: Thank you so much for having me on.
Speaker: Well, thank you.
Speaker: Take care.
Speaker: Yes, you too.
Speaker: And hey, stay nasty, will you?
Speaker: I'll do what I can.
Speaker: Okay, let's cut it.
Speaker: That's today's show.
Speaker: Once more, you can find images at themagazineantiques.com slash podcast, as well as on my Instagram at Objective Interest and Michael's at Michael Diaz Griffith.
Speaker: Our editor and producer is Sammy Delati.
Speaker: Our music is by Trap Rabbit.
Speaker: My co-host is Michael Diaz Griffith, and I'm Ben Miller.
Speaker: Catch you next time.
Speaker: Take me out to the ball game.
Speaker: Take me out with a frown.
Speaker: Buy me some peanuts and Cracker Jacks.
Speaker: I don't care if I never get back.
Speaker: Let me root, root, root for the home team.
Speaker: If they don't win, it's a shame.
Speaker: Well, it's one, two, three strikes, you're out at the old ball game.
Speaker: K.T.
Speaker: Casey saw all the games, knew the players by their first name, told the umpire he was wrong all along.
Speaker: Good and strong.
Speaker: When the score was just two to two, Katie, Katie knew what to do.
Speaker: Just to cheer up the boys, she knew she made the game sing this song.
Speaker: Take me out to the ball game.
Speaker: Take me out with the crowd.
Speaker: Buy me some peanuts and Cracker Jacks.
Speaker: I don't care if I never get back.
Speaker: Let me root, root, root for the home team.
Speaker: If they don't win, it's a shame.
Speaker: For it's one, two, three strikes, you're out at the old ball game.
