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Badger Up! Collecting Baseball-abilia with Internet Star Randall
27 Plays6 years ago
Only a small number of people have the resources and wherewithal to collect Hepplewhite furniture or Paul Revere silver, but plenty collect baseball cards, including our guest this month: Randall, the voice behind the viral video The Crazy Nastyass Honey Badger.
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Transcript
Introduction to the 'Curious Objects' Podcast
00:00:01
Speaker
Take me out to the ball game Take me out with the crowd Buy me some peanuts and cracker jack I don't care if I never get back Let me root, root, root for the home team If they don't win, it's a shame
00:00:18
Speaker
Hello, welcome to Curious Objects, I'm Ben Miller, and with me is Michael D.S.
00:00:27
Speaker
Griffith.
The Viral Video That Sparked a Discussion
00:00:37
Speaker
And today on the eve of game six of the World Series, we're going to discuss baseball cards.
00:00:44
Speaker
But it's kind of funny how we got around to this subject because it actually all started with a YouTube video that I'm guessing a lot of listeners probably have seen back in the day.
00:00:57
Speaker
Michael, when did you first see the Honey Badger video?
00:01:02
Speaker
You know, it's possible that I saw it right when it came out, when I was
00:01:07
Speaker
a high school teacher and constantly being shown memes and YouTube videos by my students.
00:01:13
Speaker
I think 2011, perhaps?
00:01:15
Speaker
Yeah, that goes way back to the early days of viral videos.
00:01:19
Speaker
And it's been watched, I think, 90 million times.
00:01:24
Speaker
So, yeah, anyone who hasn't seen it already should probably stop listening to this podcast right now and go Google Honey Badger video.
00:01:34
Speaker
Um...
00:01:35
Speaker
Be prepared.
00:01:36
Speaker
It has absolutely nothing to do with antique, material culture, object, curious or otherwise, or even baseball.
Baseball Cards as Valuable Collectibles
00:01:46
Speaker
But it's still relevant because... Right, because Randall, the famous producer of the video, just so happens to be a serious collector of baseball cards.
00:01:59
Speaker
And when I found that out, I thought, how much fun would it be to talk about baseball cards, you know, the quintessential American object of collecting?
00:02:08
Speaker
Yeah.
00:02:08
Speaker
And, you know, I think that even though this is kind of a new topic for us, it makes a lot of sense because baseball cards, stamps, other collectibles that we don't talk about a lot are actually collectibles.
00:02:22
Speaker
most people's entree into collecting, right?
00:02:26
Speaker
I mean, I collected baseball cards.
00:02:29
Speaker
That actually really surprises me.
00:02:31
Speaker
I never did.
00:02:33
Speaker
I mean, I was growing up in the South, and it's just kind of what boys had to do in the rural culture that I grew up in.
00:02:42
Speaker
But I enjoyed it, you know?
00:02:43
Speaker
It was fun to kind of learn about my father's favorite players.
00:02:50
Speaker
It was an access point to history.
00:02:52
Speaker
I think that's what I liked about it.
00:02:54
Speaker
But I, you know, one thing that was sort of interesting to me, thinking about doing a conversation with Randall, is that, you know, it just struck me that it's, there are not very many people out there in the world who don't have some kind of relationship with some kind of curious object.
00:03:16
Speaker
And almost everyone is in some way a collector of something.
00:03:22
Speaker
which means that really we could have almost anyone in the world on as a guest of this podcast, I think, and find something relevant to talk about.
00:03:32
Speaker
Yeah, no, and I think that, you know, a baseball card collector may see himself as a collector, but we wouldn't necessarily assume that like the mechanisms of collecting are the same from one discipline to another when they kind of are.
00:03:49
Speaker
I mean, there are a lot of similarities
00:03:52
Speaker
when you talk to someone like Randall and someone who collects perhaps high-end furniture or silver in terms of the way they think about objects.
00:04:00
Speaker
And I love to sort of, I mean, I'm just realizing that what you're describing is this widespread respect for and interest in objects that, yeah, is more widespread than perhaps we even think about in our day-to-day practice then.
00:04:16
Speaker
Yeah.
00:04:16
Speaker
Well, and one of the funny things about baseball cards, I mean, they're not necessarily antiques.
00:04:22
Speaker
I mean, some of them are quite old, but some of them are quite new.
00:04:27
Speaker
Even some new baseball cards are pretty valuable.
00:04:30
Speaker
But I'm...
00:04:33
Speaker
they do follow some of the same rules, as you say, of collecting in terms of, you know, rarity, condition, you know, authenticity is certainly a big issue.
00:04:49
Speaker
And yeah, to me, it's interesting that, I mean, you know, one thing that is always compelling to me about antiques, maybe the most compelling thing to me about antiques is the story that they tell about the world around them.
00:05:02
Speaker
And, you know, I'm really interested to get into this with baseball cards and find out what they can tell us about the history they represent, you know, both on the side of sports and athletics, but also just, you know, American history.
00:05:20
Speaker
Absolutely.
00:05:21
Speaker
You know, and I think you're describing some of the finer points of connoisseurship, right, which baseball card collectors certainly do follow.
00:05:33
Speaker
And at the same time, I know from my own experience that they're looking for cards that align with their passions, you know?
00:05:42
Speaker
So, like, they love Nolan Bryant's season in 19-whatever, and they want the card that kind of brings that magical moment in the player's career physically into their orbit, you
Balancing Authenticity and Passion in Collecting
00:05:54
Speaker
know?
00:05:54
Speaker
So they're thinking about authenticity and condition, but balancing that with their
00:06:00
Speaker
you know, the classic collector's thirst for the object that they want for a more personal or perhaps slightly less rational reason.
00:06:09
Speaker
And it will be interesting to hear about Randall's view on that balance between, you know, connoisseurship and all of the sort of objective standards that we bring to bear on collecting and pure passion, because I know from experience that baseball card collectors have a lot of that's
00:06:27
Speaker
Well, and I have to say, based on the Honey Badger video, I think it's going to be fascinating to hear Randall talk about just about anything under the sun.
00:06:35
Speaker
So I'm pretty excited about that.
00:06:38
Speaker
And hopefully we won't have to bleep out too many curse words.
00:06:44
Speaker
Time will tell.
00:06:45
Speaker
Add to the character of the podcast.
00:06:47
Speaker
All right, Michael.
00:06:47
Speaker
Well, thanks.
00:06:48
Speaker
And let's get right to Randall.
Sponsorship by Freemans Auction House
00:06:52
Speaker
Have a great chat, Ben.
00:06:54
Speaker
Curious Objects is sponsored by Freemans.
00:06:56
Speaker
Since 1805, Freemans has been part of the fabric of Philadelphia, helping generations of clients in the buying and selling of fine and decorative arts, jewelry, modern design, and more.
00:07:06
Speaker
Today, they are a dynamic international auction house with a year-round sales season and a team of dedicated specialists committed to personalized service.
00:07:14
Speaker
Freemans is excited to announce the upcoming single-owner auction,
00:07:18
Speaker
A Grand Old Flag, the Stars and Stripes collection of Peter J. Keim.
00:07:22
Speaker
Learn more about this collection of historic American flags and the upcoming auction at freemansauction.com.
00:07:29
Speaker
Freeman's, Philadelphia's auction house, sharing the world of art, design, and jewelry with you, wherever you are.
00:07:36
Speaker
Hi.
00:07:36
Speaker
Hello there.
00:07:38
Speaker
I'm so happy to be talking to you.
00:07:40
Speaker
And I am so thrilled to be speaking with you, Ben.
00:07:42
Speaker
Thank you so much.
00:07:44
Speaker
I love all objects that are curious in nature.
00:07:47
Speaker
Well, you've come to the right podcast then.
00:07:50
Speaker
I think there's a lot that we could talk about.
00:07:54
Speaker
But there's something that I was really interested in asking you about.
00:07:57
Speaker
Because I heard that there's something that you collect.
00:08:04
Speaker
that a kind of object that you collect that really is kind of like the quintessential object to collect.
00:08:11
Speaker
Yes, I happen to adore and love collecting baseball cards.
The Cultural Significance of Baseball Cards
00:08:17
Speaker
Pure Americana.
00:08:18
Speaker
Baseball cards.
00:08:19
Speaker
I just love it.
00:08:21
Speaker
It's as American as baseball and apple pie, right?
00:08:25
Speaker
Absolutely.
00:08:26
Speaker
And if I had my druthers, I would be collecting different apple pies from around the country, but I just can't.
00:08:32
Speaker
You know, I tried, but every time I get one, I just, I eat it.
00:08:36
Speaker
Oh, that's a problem.
00:08:37
Speaker
I think I've experienced a similar problem.
00:08:41
Speaker
Well, so let's talk about baseball cards.
00:08:45
Speaker
How do you even collect baseball cards?
00:08:48
Speaker
How do you get them?
00:08:49
Speaker
Okay, so there is rather such a difference between how one accumulates baseball cards and collects baseball cards today comparatively to how we used to back in the day.
00:09:05
Speaker
Now, when I started out collecting cards in the late 70s,
00:09:09
Speaker
Or perhaps, oh, much later than that.
00:09:12
Speaker
I'm not that old.
00:09:13
Speaker
Yes, I'm sure.
00:09:14
Speaker
Anyways, you were able to get them from other friends.
00:09:19
Speaker
You were able to trade.
00:09:21
Speaker
You were able to go to stores.
00:09:22
Speaker
They had actual baseball card shops that you can go to, and you can get comic books and baseball cards.
00:09:29
Speaker
Also, you can just go right up the street to the newsstand and get some baseball packs.
00:09:34
Speaker
Nowadays, it's online.
00:09:37
Speaker
Everything is practically either online or if you're lucky enough to have a local baseball card show in your neighborhood or in your city or town,
00:09:48
Speaker
You can attend that, but for the most part, you're doing all of your shopping online.
00:09:53
Speaker
So that's a good bulk of how I get my cards these days is by going online using the internet.
00:10:01
Speaker
So let's go back in time a little because you started collecting cards when you were a kid, right?
00:10:06
Speaker
Yes, I did.
00:10:07
Speaker
So when you were a kid, how did you get your hands on these things?
00:10:10
Speaker
And what made you interested?
00:10:12
Speaker
Like what was it that got you excited about them?
00:10:15
Speaker
You know, I was always a baseball fan.
00:10:17
Speaker
And growing up, I had a lot of time to myself being an only child.
00:10:23
Speaker
And both my mom and papa were out doing whatevers.
00:10:27
Speaker
And so for me, I guess I just always felt this need to collect.
00:10:31
Speaker
And while to this day I still collect pets...
00:10:35
Speaker
Thank you very much.
00:10:36
Speaker
I have some parakeets and hamsters and guinea pigs.
00:10:40
Speaker
I have a rabbit and cats.
00:10:42
Speaker
But, you know, you can't just keep collecting pets or wildlife or things like this.
00:10:46
Speaker
So with baseball cards, what's really fabulous about it, and I've always admired, are the designs with which these companies use, the photos, the photography that these companies use to take photos of these majestic baseball players and
00:11:04
Speaker
And the collectability factor, the rarity of some of these cards, the going back and forth and arguing over the condition of one of a card, it got me so fast.
00:11:18
Speaker
I was just so interested and fascinated by them.
00:11:22
Speaker
And I just, again, I just happen to love baseball.
00:11:24
Speaker
So one thing just sort of led to another.
00:11:26
Speaker
And mind you, Ben, I only collect baseball cards.
00:11:29
Speaker
You know, there are some other collectors out there who do football and basketball.
00:11:34
Speaker
And they have, you know, basically cards for all sorts of different, they have cards for all sorts of different sports and non-sports.
00:11:40
Speaker
But for me, it's just baseball.
00:11:42
Speaker
Because you really don't like basketball or hockey or football.
00:11:46
Speaker
I mean, you know, they're exciting to watch.
00:11:50
Speaker
But for me, it's, you know, baseball is the number one sport just because it's timeless.
00:11:57
Speaker
There's no pressure.
00:11:59
Speaker
You take your time.
00:12:00
Speaker
It could be a two-hour game.
00:12:02
Speaker
It could be a five-hour game.
00:12:03
Speaker
Who knows?
00:12:04
Speaker
And I just love the mystery of it all.
00:12:07
Speaker
And what got me really interested in collecting was I was at school as a little one, and I'd see all my friends playing around with cards.
00:12:14
Speaker
And I said, hey, I want to try some of this.
00:12:17
Speaker
So for me, it was a way of getting in socially.
00:12:21
Speaker
Just, you know, start out to be able to schmooze with some pals and
00:12:25
Speaker
get to talking over collecting cards.
00:12:26
Speaker
Yeah, I think a lot of collectors can identify with that.
00:12:29
Speaker
Yeah, for sure.
00:12:30
Speaker
And it doesn't matter what you collect.
00:12:31
Speaker
It's always fun to be social and to create groups and get online or even in person and discuss things.
00:12:38
Speaker
Okay, so take us even farther back in time because...
00:12:41
Speaker
Normally on this podcast, what I'm talking about is pretty darn old stuff.
00:12:47
Speaker
100 plus year old objects, proper antiques.
00:12:52
Speaker
Baseball cards, though, I mean, some of them are pretty old, right?
00:12:55
Speaker
When did they actually start making baseball cards?
00:12:59
Speaker
Well, you know, they do actually get fairly old.
00:13:02
Speaker
Some of the earliest baseball cards you can find in the late 19th century, around the 1890s, you would find a lot of baseball cards that were published and printed and distributed, actually, oddly enough, in tobacco, packs of tobacco cigarettes.
00:13:20
Speaker
And recently I'll have you know that the Honus Wagner T206 card went on auction and fetched an astounding $1.35 million.
00:13:33
Speaker
So there are cards from... Those are U.S. dollars.
00:13:36
Speaker
U.S. dollars, yes.
00:13:38
Speaker
$1.3 million American dollars.
00:13:40
Speaker
Yes.
00:13:41
Speaker
For a card.
00:13:42
Speaker
For a baseball card.
00:13:43
Speaker
A little card.
00:13:44
Speaker
You betcha.
00:13:45
Speaker
Wow.
00:13:46
Speaker
Why?
00:13:48
Speaker
And who's this guy, Honus Wagner?
00:13:51
Speaker
So Honus Wagner was a shortstop for the Pittsburgh Pirates.
00:13:56
Speaker
And he was very, very much against smoking, very anti-tobacco.
00:14:03
Speaker
So when he found out that they were printing cards of him and using his
00:14:11
Speaker
uh likeness and putting it into cards he said i don't want that for the kids in other words the only way to get these cards when you were a kid is that hopefully you know you weren't smoking but an adult would give you the card they would open up the pack of cigarettes and say hey here's a card for you kid so smoking was fun for parents and children
00:14:32
Speaker
I mean, hasn't that always been the case?
00:14:35
Speaker
As you can see right now, they're having so much fun with these vapes.
00:14:39
Speaker
Oh, it's so exciting.
00:14:41
Speaker
Oh, yeah.
00:14:41
Speaker
Family fun.
00:14:42
Speaker
It's funny because then other companies later on would catch on.
00:14:46
Speaker
You would find baseball cards in Wonder Bread, in Kellogg's Cereal, Hostess Cupcakes.
00:14:54
Speaker
On the back of boxes, you could just cut out the cards.
00:14:57
Speaker
So, eventually...
00:15:00
Speaker
Other companies got privy to what Honus Wagner wanted, and that was easier access for children to be able to get baseball cards.
00:15:09
Speaker
So that's what makes that card over a million dollars is the fact that he couldn't stand smoking.
00:15:16
Speaker
And so therefore, not many were printed.
00:15:18
Speaker
That's the other thing.
00:15:19
Speaker
Not many were printed.
00:15:20
Speaker
Right.
00:15:20
Speaker
So they're very rare.
00:15:22
Speaker
Yes.
00:15:22
Speaker
So are these the most expensive baseball cards that exist, these Honus Wagner cards?
00:15:27
Speaker
They are indeed.
00:15:28
Speaker
They are.
00:15:29
Speaker
And then I would gather right behind it is the Mickey Mantle rookie card, which sometimes can fetch if it's in pristine condition, meaning the corners are so sharp you can kill someone with it.
00:15:48
Speaker
Not that you would.
00:15:49
Speaker
But why would you want?
00:15:50
Speaker
Of course.
00:15:51
Speaker
Of course not.
00:15:52
Speaker
But it is the perfect murder weapon.
00:15:53
Speaker
But anyways, Ben, I digress.
00:15:55
Speaker
It is about, I'd say, they can run up to about half a million.
00:15:59
Speaker
But what's really interesting to me is like these days, you know, you have players, contemporaries like Mike Trout, who's one of baseball's greatest players today, who first came into playing baseball in the year 2011.
00:16:14
Speaker
He his cards, he presently has over 11,000 cards that one could collect amounting to if they're all in great condition, three quarters of a million dollars.
00:16:27
Speaker
Wow.
00:16:28
Speaker
So it's funny because there was a big lull for a while in the industry and in the hobby and in the world of collecting baseball cards.
00:16:35
Speaker
in the 80s they just mass produced them.
00:16:37
Speaker
And then what got really interesting and what was really fun was later on the printings started getting a little more limited and now more special.
00:16:47
Speaker
Now there's only just Topps and Panini Donruss
00:16:52
Speaker
Whereas back in the day, there was Tops, Fleer, Donruss.
00:16:56
Speaker
Then they had offshoots like Sport Flicks and all these other sort of one-offs.
00:17:02
Speaker
And a lot of them did not seek the permission from Major League Baseball to show...
00:17:08
Speaker
the team uniform or so it's really funny because back in the day sometimes you would see a card and they had the colors of the uniform but they airbrushed everything out it's really interesting stuff for copyright reasons or trademark reasons
00:17:22
Speaker
Exactly.
00:17:23
Speaker
Back when they cared about IP and trademark.
The Art of Baseball Card Collecting
00:17:27
Speaker
So there's a lot of ins and outs to this business and this process of collecting.
00:17:33
Speaker
So tell me about your collection.
00:17:34
Speaker
So how many baseball cards do you own?
00:17:37
Speaker
Oh, sweet, sweet Joseph.
00:17:40
Speaker
Let me tell you something.
00:17:42
Speaker
I must have, I'd say, 50,000 cards.
00:17:44
Speaker
I'm just taking a guess.
00:17:46
Speaker
Oh, my God.
00:17:49
Speaker
It's got to be at least 50,000 because I have a lot of sets and a lot of builds.
00:17:54
Speaker
And it's just – I'm telling you, when I was a child and I started collecting them, it just really caught on and it snowballed.
00:18:01
Speaker
And for me, especially during such crazy times as we're experiencing politically today, I think it's important to have a hobby or something that one collects to take their mind off things.
00:18:13
Speaker
I mean, at the end of the day, sometimes I'll have such a stressful day.
00:18:16
Speaker
But to just sort of unwind and to organize my cards and to get them in the place, to me, they're just like – it's like having a little Monet's or a little Warhol's, you know, or having 16th century silvers, silver utensils.
00:18:35
Speaker
I mean, for me, there really is no difference in that I'm on the hunt for cards just as anyone else is on a hunt for anything that they may collect.
00:18:45
Speaker
Okay, but I don't know too many collectors of 16th century English silver who have 50,000 objects.
00:18:56
Speaker
That's a big collection.
00:18:57
Speaker
Well, that's and that's what makes it such a curious hobby and collection in itself is the fact that I can just go about my day and find a treasure.
00:19:08
Speaker
Actually, it's very funny you say that because I just had a friend recently, my friend Roman.
00:19:13
Speaker
He came over and he said, do you know if you have, I think it was the 1972 Nolan Ryan card?
00:19:20
Speaker
And I said, I don't know.
00:19:21
Speaker
I think I used to.
00:19:22
Speaker
But I do.
00:19:23
Speaker
But I do.
00:19:23
Speaker
So he left and hours later I was looking through my card and I found it.
00:19:27
Speaker
So to me, it's...
00:19:28
Speaker
That's part of the fun.
00:19:31
Speaker
But sometimes I actually don't want to look at every single card.
00:19:33
Speaker
I just want to know that I have it.
00:19:35
Speaker
And I know that I can turn around and I can make – if someone says, hey, do you have that Roberto Clemente 1969 tops?
00:19:42
Speaker
Because if you do, I would love to make a trade with you.
00:19:45
Speaker
I can do that trade.
00:19:45
Speaker
It will take me a bit to find it.
00:19:48
Speaker
But I'll do the trade.
00:19:51
Speaker
To me, that's exciting.
00:19:52
Speaker
It's funny because for a lot of collectors, like the fun of collecting is finding that, you know, that diamond in the rough, that hidden thing that is out in the world somewhere.
00:20:03
Speaker
But for you, maybe that hidden thing is already in your collection.
00:20:06
Speaker
You just don't know where to find it.
00:20:09
Speaker
It's happened to me so many times.
00:20:11
Speaker
It's happened to me so many times.
00:20:13
Speaker
And I just feel so like I just kept saying to myself, oh, wow, I really got to have this 1964 Sandy Koufax.
00:20:21
Speaker
I really like it because Sandy Koufax, who is to me one of the finest pitchers to ever play the game.
00:20:27
Speaker
He it's such a great portrait of him.
00:20:30
Speaker
You know, a lot of these cards, the photography is great.
00:20:33
Speaker
And what's really amazing is back in the days from, say, the 40s, even before then to the 50s, they hand painted.
00:20:44
Speaker
a lot of the portraits and images of these baseball players but i needed this 1964 tops because i was like oh my gosh this is such an amazing i already had one but i went out of my way i went to a show i'm on a hunt for it i get it i come home i'm so excited and i kept thinking to myself it looked like i the back of the card was the ringer i was like it looks so familiar
00:21:10
Speaker
So I pushed aside my hamsters and I lifted up this one shoe box and it was in there.
00:21:15
Speaker
By golly.
00:21:16
Speaker
But then what's great is I have two.
00:21:18
Speaker
So now I can trade one off and keep the other.
00:21:20
Speaker
That's really something.
00:21:23
Speaker
If you had 50,000 15th century English spoon or utensil, maybe you're being in a great position because you could just sort of trade at will and sell at will.
00:21:38
Speaker
Yeah.
00:21:39
Speaker
Well, so I'm interested in it because you were telling me that you, I mean, you buy and sell cards and you trade cards.
00:21:48
Speaker
So, you know, for some collectors, it's all about, you know, once I get something, you know, I'm going to keep it forever.
00:21:54
Speaker
Right.
00:21:54
Speaker
But you're kind of cycling in and out and, you know...
00:22:00
Speaker
Didn't you used to have some cards that were super valuable and then you kind of traded them for other cards?
00:22:07
Speaker
Yes.
00:22:07
Speaker
What's the story behind that?
00:22:08
Speaker
That is true.
00:22:10
Speaker
Oh, goodness.
00:22:11
Speaker
I had a 1933 Gowdy Babe Ruth.
00:22:14
Speaker
Gowdy was... Babe Ruth.
00:22:15
Speaker
Now, there's a baseball player I've heard of.
00:22:17
Speaker
There you go.
00:22:18
Speaker
Now, this Babe Ruth, I'm telling you.
00:22:21
Speaker
Now, you know, which came first?
00:22:23
Speaker
The candy bar or the player?
00:22:24
Speaker
The player, of course.
00:22:26
Speaker
But anyways, let me tell you something.
00:22:28
Speaker
Babe Ruth, I have this card.
00:22:31
Speaker
It's in beautiful shape.
00:22:33
Speaker
And I got rid of it because I knew that I wanted to have some other cards.
00:22:39
Speaker
But also, it's like the stock market.
00:22:41
Speaker
You see, you can invest, or it's like fine art, where you can invest in one card, sit on it,
00:22:50
Speaker
And hopefully – and I don't mean in a bad way.
00:22:52
Speaker
Like, hey, go sit on it.
00:22:53
Speaker
I mean you invest.
00:22:55
Speaker
You hold on to it.
00:22:56
Speaker
That's what I'm going to say.
00:22:56
Speaker
You hold on to it.
00:22:57
Speaker
And then later, you double what you paid out for and then you can go ahead and trade it.
00:23:03
Speaker
Now you're going to get another car that you really initially wanted.
00:23:06
Speaker
But you held on to this so you can get it.
00:23:10
Speaker
I mean, it's really exciting.
00:23:12
Speaker
But yes, I've had the pleasure of, you know, when I was a kid, I would go to all these baseball card shows in and around New York City.
00:23:21
Speaker
They were like...
00:23:23
Speaker
Monthly.
00:23:24
Speaker
Really, they would have all these different hotels, the Roosevelt Hotel, Pennsylvania Hotel, where they would just open the doors in the ballroom.
00:23:32
Speaker
They would just have all these players signing cards and have all these dealers.
00:23:39
Speaker
I don't know what it's like in New York.
00:23:40
Speaker
Now that I'm out here in L.A., the scene is kind of...
00:23:45
Speaker
It's good.
00:23:46
Speaker
They have a few shops.
00:23:48
Speaker
And it's not as... The shows aren't as frequent as they used to be, but they do exist.
00:23:53
Speaker
I mean, I guess, you know, at the end of the day, it's... I don't know if you've noticed this in terms of collecting and collecting things and items, but I'll tell you, really, with the invention of the internet, it's made people lazier.
00:24:07
Speaker
The hunt, it isn't as valued as it used to be.
00:24:13
Speaker
It doesn't mean as much...
00:24:15
Speaker
That's what really worries me and I find interesting is someone who is now maybe, you know, who's a kid, 10 years old, teenager.
00:24:24
Speaker
When they start collecting, it's completely different than when I collected or say when you collected it too.
00:24:31
Speaker
It's different.
00:24:32
Speaker
Well, there are no secrets anymore, right?
00:24:34
Speaker
That's exactly it.
00:24:36
Speaker
That's right.
00:24:37
Speaker
And nowadays, what's interesting too in the world of baseball cards is everyone wants something authenticated.
00:24:43
Speaker
There are some major companies, PSA, Beckett, BCCG, where you send your cards and your merchandise to them and they say, oh, yes, I'm going to go.
00:24:55
Speaker
Oh, look at this coin.
00:24:57
Speaker
This is about an 8, and it's graded on a scale of 1 to 10.
00:25:01
Speaker
An 8 would be about near mint, 10 being a perfect gem.
00:25:07
Speaker
But basically it's really interesting because if it's not graded, you're not going to get as much money for it than if it were.
00:25:15
Speaker
So that's another thing that has completely changed –
00:25:19
Speaker
collecting and the hobby in itself.
00:25:21
Speaker
But a lot of these cards are just... They are really old.
00:25:25
Speaker
You know, pre-World War II, and you have a lot of... I mean, it's really funny to say that, but those are considered old cards now.
00:25:32
Speaker
Sure.
00:25:32
Speaker
You know, cards from the 40s.
00:25:33
Speaker
Well, that was 80 years ago now.
00:25:37
Speaker
Yeah.
00:25:38
Speaker
So what...
00:25:39
Speaker
Yeah, so I'm interested in that because as we said at the start, baseball is a pretty quintessentially American activity and baseball cards are pretty quintessentially American.
00:25:51
Speaker
I mean, you have so many of these cards from a lot of different time periods.
00:25:55
Speaker
What's your oldest card?
00:25:57
Speaker
I'm curious about that.
00:25:58
Speaker
And I'm also just curious, what kind of a story does your collection tell about America?
00:26:05
Speaker
Oh, that's really interesting.
00:26:06
Speaker
I mean, I have cards of
00:26:11
Speaker
Aside from Jackie Robinson, I have a few Jackie Robinson cards, I'm so pleased to say.
00:26:15
Speaker
But aside from Jackie Robinson, you know, aside from being the first African-American to play Major League Baseball, he was, there were others, obviously, that followed in his footsteps.
00:26:25
Speaker
You have Larry Doby, who was the second.
00:26:28
Speaker
And he went through a lot of turmoil as well.
00:26:32
Speaker
I have a lot of his cards.
00:26:34
Speaker
I have Satchel Paige's rookie card, which is one of my prized baseball cards.
00:26:41
Speaker
I believe it's a 1953 Topps.
00:26:44
Speaker
And he was in the Negro Leagues.
00:26:46
Speaker
As you may or may not know, baseball was segregated.
00:26:49
Speaker
They had what they called the Negro Leagues, and then they had Major League Baseball.
00:26:53
Speaker
And it wasn't until, I believe...
00:26:57
Speaker
1947 49 when jackie robinson broke the color barrier um right but so many of those cards um you know they didn't even make so that satchel page to me is very valuable because he made it to the major leagues at such an old age and he was so many before him uh his contemporaries
00:27:21
Speaker
Seriously.
00:27:47
Speaker
Yeah, seriously.
00:27:48
Speaker
This guy was way into his mid-40s, early 40s when he came up.
00:27:54
Speaker
That's one of my favorite cards that I have.
00:27:56
Speaker
I also have a Sandy Koufax rookie because I just love him and adore him.
00:28:00
Speaker
And I think that – I think what's so fascinating about him and his career was just how short it was, yet how dominant it was at the same time.
00:28:10
Speaker
Roberto Clemente's rookie card.
00:28:12
Speaker
Roberto Clemente, to me, was just an astounding player.
00:28:18
Speaker
just like a gazelle he was like a gazelle running around in the outfield um and to have his rookie card means a lot to me so there there are some things that i have in my collection that i know i won't part with but then there are some older cards like that babe ruth well i mean i also had a lou gehrig same time period 33 gaudy and gaudy by the way was a bubblegum company back in the 30s um okay and they not a tobacco company
00:28:46
Speaker
Not a tobacco company, exactly.
00:28:48
Speaker
So they were probably one of the first non-tobacco companies to put out baseball cards.
00:28:55
Speaker
And earliest card I have is probably a 1909 double header card.
00:29:01
Speaker
So what they decided to do was in these big tobacco packs, they would have a card that would fold in half
00:29:09
Speaker
So you can have two players on one card, which is really funny because he would flip up and then you would have the longer picture would be someone else.
00:29:17
Speaker
But then you put it down and then you have the other picture.
00:29:20
Speaker
They were sharing the same legs.
00:29:24
Speaker
Why would they try to fool kids and people like this?
00:29:28
Speaker
Those aren't his legs.
00:29:29
Speaker
Those are his legs.
00:29:31
Speaker
I'd always say.
00:29:32
Speaker
But so one of my earliest is I have a Mercedes Brown 1909 double header card like that.
00:29:42
Speaker
But and what makes that so special was Mercedes Brown had only three fingers on his pitching hand.
00:29:51
Speaker
Oh, wow.
00:29:52
Speaker
Yeah.
00:29:53
Speaker
And he was a legend.
00:29:54
Speaker
He was able to come up with some crazy pitches with just those three fingers on his throwing hand.
00:30:00
Speaker
Were there pitches that only he could do?
00:30:02
Speaker
That's a great question.
00:30:04
Speaker
I don't know.
00:30:04
Speaker
You know, probably simply because no one else figured to do it.
00:30:08
Speaker
But he, you know, because he didn't have any choice.
00:30:13
Speaker
You know, when you only have three fingers on your pitching hand, you have to come up with something.
00:30:17
Speaker
I guess necessity is the mother of invention.
00:30:21
Speaker
Oh, it's a mother of right.
00:30:22
Speaker
Yeah.
00:30:35
Speaker
We'll take a quick break and be right back with more Randall.
00:30:41
Speaker
Curious Objects is sponsored by Freeman's.
00:30:44
Speaker
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00:30:53
Speaker
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00:31:01
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00:31:06
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Speaker
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00:31:12
Speaker
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00:31:19
Speaker
Before we get back to it, I always like to take just a minute to say a quick thank you for listening.
00:31:24
Speaker
I really appreciate it.
00:31:25
Speaker
I'm especially grateful for those of you who leave a rating or even a review on iTunes or whatever app you're using to listen right now.
00:31:35
Speaker
It makes a big difference and helps more people to find the podcast.
00:31:39
Speaker
There are, as always, pictures on the web at themagazineantiques.com slash podcast.
00:31:46
Speaker
So be sure to check that out.
00:31:47
Speaker
Okay, let's get back to Randall and his baseball cards.
00:31:51
Speaker
Okay, so wait, so you have a card going back to 1909.
00:31:57
Speaker
You have cards from the 40s.
00:32:00
Speaker
I imagine you have cards from probably just about every decade between then and now.
00:32:05
Speaker
So when you look through those cards, I mean, you said they started, they used to be hand-painted.
00:32:11
Speaker
Now they're not hand-painted anymore.
00:32:15
Speaker
What else changed?
00:32:16
Speaker
I mean, what changed about the cards?
00:32:18
Speaker
And what does that tell you?
00:32:20
Speaker
Does that tell you stuff about history from a lens that people wouldn't normally see it?
00:32:28
Speaker
That's a great question.
Evolution of Baseball Cards and Society
00:32:30
Speaker
So, yeah, you can learn a lot about America through these baseball cards in that you can see...
00:32:37
Speaker
Looking at the player's eyes over time is something I love to do.
00:32:41
Speaker
You know, you look at these guys from all the cards pre, I'd say, 1955 or so.
00:32:49
Speaker
Everyone looks so tired and weathered.
00:32:53
Speaker
Tired, really?
00:32:54
Speaker
Yeah.
00:32:54
Speaker
Yeah.
00:32:55
Speaker
And then as you get into the 60s, you start seeing some players have longer hair.
00:33:03
Speaker
Now they have big beards.
00:33:05
Speaker
Now in the 70s, some of them are kind of chubby.
00:33:08
Speaker
And then when you get into... I'm not kidding, Ben.
00:33:12
Speaker
It's really outrageous.
00:33:14
Speaker
All the baseball players got chubby in the 70s.
00:33:18
Speaker
They really did.
00:33:19
Speaker
They got chubby in the 70s.
00:33:20
Speaker
It was fashionable.
00:33:21
Speaker
Yeah.
00:33:23
Speaker
I'm telling you, gluttony was really in in those boring 70s.
00:33:29
Speaker
And then you start seeing as the players start making more money, they start taking better care of themselves.
00:33:35
Speaker
So now, and like up to, you know, from the, let's say the 90s to now, the players start getting in better shape.
00:33:44
Speaker
They start looking happier because they're making...
00:33:48
Speaker
hundreds of millions of dollars every season um that would make me happy that would make me are you kidding me i'll smile for any card uh picture you take for a baseball i mean it's it's really funny because they rarely used to smile back in the day and now on all these cards they're either playing you see them like you know hitting or fielding or if it's a portrait they're smiling
00:34:11
Speaker
And they're actually doing new stuff with cards these days, right?
Current Trends in Baseball Card Collecting
00:34:16
Speaker
Where it's not just a card anymore.
00:34:18
Speaker
That's right.
00:34:20
Speaker
What they started doing was they have special inserts in a pack you'll get or in a box of cards.
00:34:29
Speaker
packs, you'll get special things like a random card sign, perhaps by your favorite player.
00:34:35
Speaker
You get what they call a relic card, which features either a piece of a game-used bat or a game-worn jersey or pants.
00:34:45
Speaker
And
00:34:47
Speaker
You see, it's funny because I guess in the 80s, they thought the best way to entice people and folks to collect was to just create a whole bunch of them and to just mass produce.
00:35:00
Speaker
And then as the years went on and right now, what they figured was less is more and let's give incentive.
00:35:07
Speaker
Like we're only going to have –
00:35:10
Speaker
five of these cards of this player featuring a piece of their jersey.
00:35:18
Speaker
You know, we're only going to have 20 signatures from this player.
00:35:22
Speaker
Yeah, so they're creating artificial scarcity.
00:35:25
Speaker
Yes.
00:35:26
Speaker
And the artificial scarcity is really – it's driving everything right now.
00:35:34
Speaker
I mean a lot of these cards are going for thousands of dollars because not only is the – I mean the player always has to be great, right?
00:35:42
Speaker
That's the thing.
00:35:43
Speaker
Yeah.
00:35:45
Speaker
If they're not such a superstar, these cards wouldn't be worth as much.
00:35:49
Speaker
But to get a Mike Trout that's signed and there are only like 10 of them, that card's going to be a lot of money.
00:35:56
Speaker
In fact, there are cards like that where he, I think it was a 2009 Bowman draft card where he signed a few.
00:36:02
Speaker
It's $8,000.
00:36:03
Speaker
Wow.
00:36:03
Speaker
For a 10-year-old card.
00:36:05
Speaker
Yeah.
00:36:05
Speaker
Yeah.
00:36:16
Speaker
But I'm really intrigued by this idea of, you know, including, I mean, a signature is cool because it ties you in a physical way to that player.
00:36:27
Speaker
It means that it's not just a card that was, you know, somebody took a picture and they put it on a card and printed a bunch of them and now you have it.
00:36:36
Speaker
But now there's actually a connection.
00:36:38
Speaker
You know, the player touched that card.
00:36:41
Speaker
And if you have it, you're tied to that player.
00:36:44
Speaker
But and then this this new idea of of having, you know, bits of the jersey or whatever it is, you know, physical artifacts that are associated with the player.
00:36:56
Speaker
That's
Baseball Cards Meet Historical Events
00:36:57
Speaker
pretty cool.
00:36:57
Speaker
I mean, there's something really compelling psychologically about having an object that, you know, that that really has that that phenomenal logical
00:37:09
Speaker
I completely agree.
00:37:12
Speaker
I completely agree.
00:37:13
Speaker
And that's it is.
00:37:14
Speaker
I like to say it's their little pieces of history.
00:37:19
Speaker
Literally, I mean, just because like they'll also include bits of seats from ballparks that no longer exist.
00:37:30
Speaker
To me, that's definitely a piece of history.
00:37:33
Speaker
Oh, and some other, I think it was, yes, Tops put out cards commemorating World War II, and they too randomly had surviving soldiers sign some of the cards.
00:37:50
Speaker
So that's amazing.
00:37:51
Speaker
Yeah, that's amazing to me.
00:37:53
Speaker
I happen to have a Battle of the Bulge baseball card signed by three surviving Battle of the Bulge soldiers.
00:38:01
Speaker
No kidding.
00:38:02
Speaker
No kidding.
00:38:04
Speaker
So, I mean, that is a surefire way to get people involved with history, you know.
00:38:10
Speaker
I mean, I wouldn't – that's what makes it exciting for me.
00:38:13
Speaker
I mean, Battle of the Bulge, a lot of the war and stuff like that, I really can do without.
00:38:20
Speaker
But now that you have it in a baseball pack, now that there's a chance for me to get that, now that I can get this thing, I'm totally interested.
00:38:28
Speaker
And then I read up on it.
00:38:30
Speaker
I mean, I just think that's so interesting.
00:38:32
Speaker
And we were talking one time and you had an amazing idea.
00:38:35
Speaker
Yeah.
00:38:38
Speaker
Yeah.
00:38:39
Speaker
Well, should we tell people about it?
00:38:43
Speaker
No.
00:38:44
Speaker
I just wanted to say that you had.
00:38:48
Speaker
Antique baseball cards.
00:38:50
Speaker
Ben here says antique baseball cards.
00:38:52
Speaker
And I say to myself, oh, my goodness.
00:38:54
Speaker
This is what an amazing.
00:38:56
Speaker
It's brilliant.
00:38:58
Speaker
You can learn so much.
00:39:00
Speaker
Yeah, I want someone to make those because I want to collect them.
00:39:02
Speaker
Exactly.
00:39:03
Speaker
And so do I. And then that'll be the thing.
00:39:06
Speaker
And then we can trade.
00:39:07
Speaker
I could say, hey, I can call you up and say, hey, I got that spoon that you've been looking for.
00:39:12
Speaker
You could say, oh, I got that weather vane.
00:39:17
Speaker
You know, I got that weather vane from the 17th century that you were looking for.
00:39:21
Speaker
I'm telling you, whenever...
00:39:24
Speaker
I don't know.
00:39:25
Speaker
I just I love that you can learn about the baseball player, you know, on the on the back.
00:39:30
Speaker
I'm getting their stats.
00:39:31
Speaker
I'm getting little quick clips about where they live, how old they are, what they did.
00:39:38
Speaker
And in addition to that, yeah, this, you know, that switch from the art, hand painted art into now photography, they're actually starting to bring back
00:39:50
Speaker
the hand painted and the art to baseball cards, which is really exciting.
00:39:55
Speaker
But what's really interesting is that they're only available online.
00:39:58
Speaker
You see, Topps has a website where they've hired artists to go back to creating those cards, but they're only available online.
00:40:07
Speaker
And a lot of other card companies are starting to do that now, too, where they have exclusives that are only online.
00:40:15
Speaker
So I don't know.
00:40:16
Speaker
I mean, the days of just sort of magic findings, unless you're at a swap meet, you know, unless you go to swap meet or you visit someone's estate and they're giving them the I mean, I've heard amazing stories from people who just find.
00:40:34
Speaker
You know, it's like antique roadshow or antique.
00:40:39
Speaker
But for baseball cards, same thing can happen where a lot of folks just don't know.
00:40:43
Speaker
I mean, you know, you've heard that story so many times, right?
00:40:46
Speaker
Where, oh, my father's brother's friend put it a spoke.
00:40:51
Speaker
His mother threw out all the cards and comics.
00:40:54
Speaker
They were doing target practice and they threw the cards in the sky.
00:40:59
Speaker
I mean, no one takes good care.
00:41:00
Speaker
It's really funny because here you have something that's collectible.
00:41:03
Speaker
Yet at the same time, it's also something that's taken for granted so many times.
00:41:07
Speaker
I mean, you wouldn't take a spoon and throw it around or do whatever with it.
00:41:11
Speaker
You wouldn't take a fork or or iron cast.
00:41:14
Speaker
I mean, it's just really funny to me.
00:41:16
Speaker
But it's oh, look, here's a shaker.
00:41:18
Speaker
Look at this beautiful chair for the Quakers created it.
00:41:22
Speaker
Oh, no, don't.
00:41:22
Speaker
What are you doing?
00:41:23
Speaker
I'm putting it on the street.
00:41:24
Speaker
I'm going to rock around.
00:41:25
Speaker
What are you talking about?
00:41:26
Speaker
Put my baseball cards down.
00:41:28
Speaker
Ben, I'm telling you, I can kill my mom.
00:41:30
Speaker
She used to take my baseball cards and pick her teeth with them sometimes.
00:41:34
Speaker
Oh, my God.
00:41:35
Speaker
Yeah.
00:41:35
Speaker
Isn't that gross?
00:41:36
Speaker
What, she ran out of dental floss?
00:41:38
Speaker
Yeah.
00:41:38
Speaker
No floss.
00:41:39
Speaker
I'll just use this card.
00:41:41
Speaker
What is she thinking?
00:41:44
Speaker
There is a there's a tankard, a silver, an old silver tankard that has a bullet hole through it that was left by a musket ball during the Revolutionary War.
00:41:57
Speaker
So, you know, even even silver got abused sometimes.
00:42:02
Speaker
You know, if it's out there, it's it's subject to anything that comes its way, really.
00:42:10
Speaker
Okay, so what are you looking for?
00:42:11
Speaker
What's the next card that you're striving to find?
00:42:16
Speaker
I'm looking to find some more of today's contemporary rookie cards.
00:42:22
Speaker
You know, I've been watching and enjoying a lot of these games that they play in the postseason as the season has ended and now we're heading into the postseason.
00:42:33
Speaker
So a lot of these players are really intriguing to me and I'm going to try and focus, I think, on getting some of the newer guys because it's affordable
The Future of Collecting and Cultural Preservation
00:42:41
Speaker
right now.
00:42:41
Speaker
And I know that these cards are definitely going to jump up in value over time.
00:42:46
Speaker
So for me, I think that's the kind of thing I'm going to, you know, over the years, my collection has been focusing on sort of keeping like I'll hoard it.
00:42:55
Speaker
I'll get a lot of them and I just sit on them, which is why like, yeah, sure.
00:42:58
Speaker
Fifty thousand.
00:42:59
Speaker
I don't know what they all look like or I may have forgotten where they are, but I know I have it.
00:43:04
Speaker
So for me, like what I'll do is I got very into collecting unopened things, meaning a box of baseball cards to have like 24 packs inside rather than open them up and rip through all the packs.
00:43:19
Speaker
I'm keeping it sealed.
00:43:21
Speaker
I'm keeping it sealed.
00:43:22
Speaker
Yeah.
00:43:23
Speaker
So you don't even know who's inside.
00:43:25
Speaker
I have no idea.
00:43:27
Speaker
But it's going to be exciting five years from now or 10 years from now to open it.
00:43:32
Speaker
Or to offer it to someone.
00:43:33
Speaker
And they'll say, oh my, and that's what I've been doing.
00:43:36
Speaker
I found, I'm telling you, I have recently been trading a bunch of unopened boxes from the 80s from people who are going cuckoo.
00:43:45
Speaker
And they're trading me their older cards for it.
00:43:48
Speaker
Wow.
00:43:49
Speaker
Is this a King Tut's tomb thing?
00:43:53
Speaker
Is there a curse on these boxes?
00:43:57
Speaker
Whoever opens them is going to die some horrible death.
00:44:01
Speaker
No, but I like the idea of that.
00:44:04
Speaker
You know, Halloween's coming up, and that's a good spooky story.
00:44:09
Speaker
If you don't open up this, the ghost of Babe Ruth's going to come running after you and eat all of your hot dogs.
00:44:17
Speaker
I think you just gave me a good Halloween costume idea.
00:44:20
Speaker
Oh, see?
00:44:22
Speaker
But I love your antique baseball card idea.
00:44:24
Speaker
They could even do history baseball cards.
00:44:27
Speaker
They can even do civil rights baseball cards.
00:44:30
Speaker
And they've done a lot of baseball cards for a lot of different things.
00:44:35
Speaker
I don't know if you know that they had Operation Desert Storm baseball cards.
00:44:40
Speaker
Wow.
00:44:41
Speaker
They, of course, have popular Star Wars baseball cards.
00:44:45
Speaker
They have them for movies and TV shows.
00:44:48
Speaker
But...
00:44:50
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, they ought to do it for every subject and everything else that's out there.
00:44:54
Speaker
Well, if anyone who's listening right now owns a tobacco company, take note.
00:44:59
Speaker
We want you to make cards for everything, but especially antiques.
00:45:03
Speaker
Yes.
00:45:05
Speaker
And buying a pack is the only way that we'll ever be able to get them.
00:45:12
Speaker
All right.
00:45:13
Speaker
Thanks so much for joining me.
00:45:14
Speaker
This is a lot of fun.
00:45:17
Speaker
I learned a lot about baseball cards.
00:45:18
Speaker
Well, thank you.
00:45:19
Speaker
It was a pleasure speaking with you.
00:45:21
Speaker
I mean, I just...
00:45:24
Speaker
I love collecting.
00:45:26
Speaker
For me, it doesn't matter.
00:45:28
Speaker
When I was little and I was collecting these cards, it was then I just started realizing the love of collecting and collections.
00:45:36
Speaker
And I think that they really do mean something to our society.
00:45:41
Speaker
So it was great speaking with you.
00:45:42
Speaker
Thank you so much for having me on.
00:45:44
Speaker
Well, thank you.
00:45:45
Speaker
Take care.
00:45:46
Speaker
Yes, you too.
00:45:47
Speaker
And hey, stay nasty, will you?
00:45:49
Speaker
I'll do what I can.
00:45:55
Speaker
Okay, let's cut it.
00:45:59
Speaker
That's today's show.
00:46:01
Speaker
Once more, you can find images at themagazineantiques.com slash podcast, as well as on my Instagram at Objective Interest and Michael's at Michael Diaz Griffith.
00:46:10
Speaker
Our editor and producer is Sammy Delati.
00:46:13
Speaker
Our music is by Trap Rabbit.
00:46:14
Speaker
My co-host is Michael Diaz Griffith, and I'm Ben Miller.
00:46:18
Speaker
Catch you next time.
00:46:31
Speaker
Take me out to the ball game.
00:46:35
Speaker
Take me out with a frown.
00:46:38
Speaker
Buy me some peanuts and Cracker Jacks.
00:46:41
Speaker
I don't care if I never get back.
00:46:44
Speaker
Let me root, root, root for the home team.
00:46:47
Speaker
If they don't win, it's a shame.
00:46:50
Speaker
Well, it's one, two, three strikes, you're out at the old ball game.
00:46:57
Speaker
K.T.
00:47:00
Speaker
Casey saw all the games, knew the players by their first name, told the umpire he was wrong all along.
00:47:13
Speaker
Good and strong.
00:47:15
Speaker
When the score was just two to two, Katie, Katie knew what to do.
00:47:21
Speaker
Just to cheer up the boys, she knew she made the game sing this song.
00:47:27
Speaker
Take me out to the ball game.
00:47:30
Speaker
Take me out with the crowd.
00:47:33
Speaker
Buy me some peanuts and Cracker Jacks.
00:47:37
Speaker
I don't care if I never get back.
00:47:39
Speaker
Let me root, root, root for the home team.
00:47:42
Speaker
If they don't win, it's a shame.
00:47:45
Speaker
For it's one, two, three strikes, you're out at the old ball game.