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Episode 17: What to Say to Your Friend Who is Facing Cancer
63 Plays5 years ago
Today’s Key Idea: We need to be grateful for those who move toward our suffering and gracious toward those who move away from it.
Resource: What to Say to Your Friend Who is Facing Cancer
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Transcript
Introduction and Mission
00:00:09
Speaker
Hi, we are Patrick and Ruth Schwank and we are so thrilled you are listening in with us at Root Like Faith. It is our deepest desire to encourage and equip men and women to be rooted in God's word, transformed by the love of Jesus and moved by his mission in the power of the Holy Spirit. Nothing is more important.
Supporting Loved Ones with Cancer
00:00:28
Speaker
Well today we are continuing the conversation on suffering and what to say to your friend who is facing cancer. You know we know how hard this can be and we want to help. So let's get started.
Book Announcement: 'In a Boat in the Middle of a Lake'
00:00:48
Speaker
On today's episode of Root Like Faith, we are talking about what to say to your friend or your loved one who is facing cancer. Like we've said, we all face trials, hardships, and suffering, but there are many times we are so overwhelmed by our circumstances that we can't see the path forward. So today we want to help you help the one you love who is suffering.
00:01:13
Speaker
And as we've mentioned over the last few weeks, our brand new book in a boat in the middle of a lake, trusting the God who meets us in our storm, releases September 8th.
Entering and Understanding Suffering
00:01:23
Speaker
And one of the things we talk about specifically in the book is that in suffering, we desperately need one another. But what does that really look like? And I know there's a lot of us that would wonder, how do we even do that? The truth is it can be so hard to enter into someone else's suffering.
00:01:42
Speaker
All of us tend to either move toward suffering or away from it because it's challenging. It's challenging to know what to do and certainly challenging to know what to say to someone who is facing sickness.
Patrick's Cancer Journey
00:01:55
Speaker
Now, honey, I know and some of our listeners might not know that you have firsthand experience with this, so I thought really
00:02:04
Speaker
How great to have you here to really talk about what was helpful to you, what you really needed people to say to you in your experience with cancer. So I don't know, maybe you should share a little bit of what your experience was for those that don't know what you've been through.
00:02:20
Speaker
Yeah, so in January 2018, I was diagnosed with a type of blood cancer and went through about five months of frontline treatment to drive the cancer as deep as they could and had two stem cell transplants. And currently, there's no trace or visible trace of cancer in my body. And so we just thank God for that. And I think back to that day of
00:02:44
Speaker
the diagnosis and just some of the phone calls I had to make and some of the things that people said.
Reactions to Suffering
00:02:50
Speaker
And then as the weeks went on, as we shared that with other people, as we posted on social media, as we, you know, of course, shared it with our church family and just all of the different things that people said or even didn't say. And so it was just really interesting walking through that going, oh, wow, like I wish I could go back and redo some of the conversations I had as a friend or as a family member or even as a pastor when people
00:03:13
Speaker
Told me the news about you know, whether it was cancer or some other tragic event in their life I think it's just really really hard sometimes to know what to say and you're exactly right. I mean, I think most people
00:03:24
Speaker
People either move towards your suffering or away from it. And the reality is moving towards somebody's suffering is really, really scary. It's intimidating and it's costly to enter into somebody's suffering. And so sometimes it's easier just to meet somebody's tragic news with silence or to sort of drift away.
The Impact of Words
00:03:42
Speaker
And so with that said, there were so many great things that people said
00:03:47
Speaker
and did for us in those early days and weeks. And some really silly things. I think let's start with the not so great things so that we can end on a high note. But I feel like it's helpful for us to just be honest and say, here's some of the things that people said or didn't say that were really hard to take.
00:04:13
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, there's probably so many different examples of that. I'm thinking of one, and these are our friends of ours, and they would not mind me sharing this because we've joked about it since then. But I remember the wife, I was just getting ready to go up and preach, and she said to me, oh, by the way, my dad died of that type of cancer.
00:04:37
Speaker
And so I was literally getting ready to go up and preach. And when she said that, I remember I went into the bathroom there at the church and just looked in the mirror and was like, Lord, help me. Going up and preaching, I was the last thing I want to do or feel like I should do.
00:04:52
Speaker
or can do. And so there are comments like that where people, when you tell them about a type of cancer, they either tell you the success stories, which I like, or they tell you the stories that are not so great. They didn't turn out well. And that's one example. And then I think about a friend of mine who I had shared the news with.
00:05:14
Speaker
And it was as if he didn't know what to say. And so he didn't say anything at all. And so there was just sort of this awkward silence.
00:05:23
Speaker
and then I just moved the conversation down the road, sensing he was very uncomfortable with that. Right, you can sense when somebody's really uncomfortable and you don't even know what to do or say, so you just move on. And as a wife, I can say that, boy, it's hard when people say the wrong thing, because then I spend like two hours, I feel like, trying to write it. Untangle it, yeah, well, that's true. Untangle it. It's okay, honey, that's not what they meant, you know? This is what she meant.
00:05:52
Speaker
Exactly. Or they don't understand. It's all right. Anyways, so there are certainly things that we can say or just not say anything at all that can be hard. I remember talking to one lady before. I just want to throw this
Biblical Insights on Words
00:06:06
Speaker
one in there too. And I was, she had asked me how I was doing and I had just met her and we were at church and they were visiting from out of town and she asked what I was doing or how I was doing.
00:06:17
Speaker
And so I began to tell her and I was what I thought I was telling her, like really encouraging things. I was telling her about, you know, how effective the treatment has been and just, you know, everything seemed very positive. And I just remember as I was sort of going through the details of how I was doing the, the, the look on her face was just getting more and more sour. It was almost like, I think we write about this in the book. It was like a, a small animal was, was inside of her low for just gnawing on her toe.
00:06:43
Speaker
And so I thought, gosh, am I not doing OK? Just the look on her face. And so that's sort of in the ballpark of what not to say. I guess that would be more what not to do. Well, you're trying to interpret. Paying attention to your facial expressions. Right. You're trying to interpret her body language. And maybe that's just how she looked. Maybe she looks like that all the time. I don't know. God bless her.
00:07:05
Speaker
Oh my word. So why is it so important for us to know what to say to our friend or to someone that we know, our loved one, our family member who is facing cancer? Why is it so important that we know what to say and how to say it?
00:07:27
Speaker
Yeah, I think we would all agree that there's just no perfect thing to say. Obviously, there's nothing that anybody can say in that moment that is going to take away the reality of what you're facing and sometimes the pain of what you're encountering.
00:07:42
Speaker
On one level, we just need to be really honest and say, hey, we all know that. We all know that there are things that we just can't say that are going to completely fix the problem. Yeah, and we have to be honest with that. I think even the person who is facing cancer has to recognize that nobody can fix, by what they say, fix what they're going through. And that's a really healthy place to be.
00:08:08
Speaker
Yeah, you know, I was just thinking about, you know, so there's that layer, if you will, but the truth is too that, I mean, obviously the scriptures talk about the power of words and our words do matter and they carry weight and they can bring great hurt or they can also bring great healing. And there's so many different examples of that, you know, in the Bible, but I think of Proverbs 12, you know, verse 18 is just one really good example. And the writer says, the words of the reckless pierced like swords.
Power of Presence
00:08:36
Speaker
And they just go, oh, how many times have I been
00:08:38
Speaker
reckless with my words, reckless because either I just was uncomfortable, I didn't know what to say, or I just was being careless. And then the writer goes on to say, but the tongue of the wise brings healing. And I think that that's what we're talking about. On one level,
00:08:55
Speaker
There's nothing we can possibly say that's going to take away somebody's pain and suffering, but there are some things to say that are better than others that really do have the power to bring healing and strength and encouragement and hope when somebody's facing a really dark and confusing, disorienting time like we were. And so I think that's why it's so important for us.
00:09:17
Speaker
you know, whether we've been through it or not, just to know like we there's great power in what we say. And so to be able to talk through what not to say or what to say, this thing can be really, really helpful because all of us have been on the the other end of a conversation like that or the other end of a phone call or a text message.
00:09:36
Speaker
And so I think it's just really important just to know what to say or what not to say. And I think about I think once we went through this, I had a whole new perspective and thought about all the times that I didn't say the right thing.
00:09:52
Speaker
that because I had no idea the depth of somebody's pain. And so hopefully this will be helpful to people listening to understand really how important it is, even when we don't understand what somebody's going through, to still speak life and hope and peace into their life.
00:10:13
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, you're so right. I mean, I know my oldest sister, Sarah, who had gone through cancer herself years ago. I remember saying to her shortly after I was diagnosed, I am so sorry. I had no idea what you were going through. I had no idea what you were thinking or feeling. And I was just totally oblivious to that. And so I remember telling her that. And so you're exactly right, I think.
00:10:39
Speaker
There have been so many times where, on this side of cancer, now I wish I could go back and say something differently or do
Responses and Reactions to Suffering
00:10:45
Speaker
something differently. And the truth is, I still can say the wrong thing even now.
00:10:49
Speaker
Yeah. And that kind of, that reminds me of a quote that actually we have in the book, um, in the section where we kind of talk about this, where we say your friend doesn't need you to be competent. Your friend needs you to care. And so again, you don't have to have it all right. Uh, they just need to know that you care and you're there.
00:11:10
Speaker
Yeah, absolutely. I think that that's such an important thing. And so I think sometimes we can get so overwhelmed with worrying about saying the wrong thing. And so again, I think the most important thing that a friend needs to hear when they're sharing that news with you is that you care for them, that you are with them, that you love them, you show them compassion.
00:11:31
Speaker
And that's the biggest thing. I just think about the story of Job, and I'm sure that folks are very familiar with that Old Testament book and just the story of Job and the suffering he goes through. And Job's friends oftentimes get a bad rap, and rightfully so. And I love
00:11:52
Speaker
in Job 2, verse 11, it says that when Job's three friends heard about all of the troubles that had come upon him, they set out from their homes and they met together by agreement to go and sympathize with him and comfort him. And so they just went and they were present with him and they listened to him, they mourned with him, they comforted him.
00:12:12
Speaker
And so there's many things that Job's friends did write. And I always sort of chuckle when I think about their story, it's when they started talking, that's when they get themselves in trouble. And so there's a lot of things that Job's friends do right there at the beginning of the book, but when they start talking, sometimes they don't.
00:12:30
Speaker
always say the right thing, and I think that's what we're talking about today. When you say that part of that scripture where it says they set out from their homes, they met together by agreement to go and sympathize with Him and comfort Him, that really means a lot to me. When I hear that verse, just because I understand
00:12:51
Speaker
how important it is, how important it was for me and for you to have those people, again, who move towards your suffering and not away from your suffering. Because the silence, I feel like, is so hard when you don't hear from the friend. I think that was probably one of the things I was most surprised, I don't know about you, but I think that was one of the things I was most surprised about. You know, walking through the cancer diagnosis and then the months and, you know, after that of treatment.
Story of Support: Friend Michael
00:13:20
Speaker
was really sometimes the people that we were close to in the past or different relationships that you thought would have said something or done something differently that didn't, there was silence there. And that took me a long time to sort of understand that and come to grips with that.
00:13:38
Speaker
and really extend grace. That didn't mean people didn't care necessarily. It didn't mean that friends of ours didn't really, they weren't concerned about what we were walking through. It was that in many cases, they just didn't know how to handle that, what to say or what to do. But that was one of the biggest surprises for me. Or they didn't under, I mean, again, a lot of times we just don't understand the depth of somebody's pain and how hard it is until we've been through it.
00:14:04
Speaker
And that's honestly one of the reasons I am thankful for this journey, because especially being in ministry, we come across so many people who are suffering. And this gives, again, a whole new perspective on suffering and pain and just the depth of that.
00:14:23
Speaker
So OK, let's talk about let's give some ideas of like what are helpful things that we can actually say to a friend when they are going through sickness. And when I ask that question immediately, I think of a friend of yours, Michael, who I think we've probably talked about. He's kind of becoming he's like the third host of this podcast. He just doesn't know it. He doesn't know it.
00:14:46
Speaker
He is one of Pat's mentors and him and his wife have had a huge impact on our life over the past 20 years. And he's a stage four throat cancer survivor. Yes. And so he, boy, I am so thankful for Michael because
00:15:03
Speaker
When I didn't know what to say, I would say, you need to call Michael or Michael would call. And he called all the time to ask you how you were doing and just listened. And it was so incredible. So maybe, I mean, what are some of
Empathy and Reassurance
00:15:18
Speaker
the things that Michael said to you?
00:15:20
Speaker
Can you think of those things? What was it that was so helpful about his relationship with you and him calling you to check in on you? Because I think that that's really that's like a real picture of what it was like for somebody to be in your suffering with you and checking on you all the time.
00:15:38
Speaker
Yeah, there are so many things that he said. And you're right. I mean, he called me almost every single day just to check in. How are you doing? How are you feeling? Where's your head at? Where's your heart at? And so that was just huge for me in those first couple weeks, first couple months. And still today, I mean, obviously, we have a close relationship. We still talk almost every week, even now.
00:16:04
Speaker
But you know, one of the things that sticks out to me the most about our early conversations is that he would oftentimes say, I have no idea what you're going through. And I remember him saying that. And finally, one day I stopped him and said, yes, you do. You went through cancer. You had your your throat operated on. You went through chemotherapy. Now, I didn't have those things. His treatment was much worse than mine. But my point was that you've been through cancer. But I so appreciate that even though he had been through
00:16:35
Speaker
cancer diagnosis and cancer treatment, his point was, I still have no idea what you're going through. My journey was different than yours. And so when he was talking to you, because this is actually, I've never asked you this before and I've been wondering this, so this is perfect timing. When he would talk to you, was he saying, was he saying it's going to be okay? You know, like your little, your cheerleader, or was he just sympathizing with you in that? Like, what would he say?
00:17:04
Speaker
Yeah, I think one of the things that he said often, and it's, you know, I think one of the top things I would encourage anybody to say is, I'm so sorry. And so he wasn't trying to like make it look rosy, like, hey, you're going to get through. I mean, there was definitely encouragement, but he would oftentimes text me and say, don't give in to the fear.
00:17:27
Speaker
But he would oftentimes say, I'm so sorry. He would listen to me. I would cry on the phone. Or when he came up to meet me here in Ann Arbor and we drove around and had lunch, he would listen to me. But oftentimes, he would just empathize and just listen and say, I'm so sorry. He would definitely encourage me that you're going to get through this. How you feel today is not going to be how you feel a year from now, two years from now.
00:17:56
Speaker
And so he was great at really not making light of the situation, but also just giving me hope and encouragement and really putting things into perspective that this current reality was not going to be a final reality.
00:18:11
Speaker
And I think because I can I can testify that when you would get off the phone with him, I'm a better man. You were a better man. Yeah, you were, though. I was so, so thankful because I there was only so much I could do and say. And so to have somebody like that. And of course, we had many other people as well. But I'm just using Michael as an example. But
00:18:33
Speaker
Um, to have somebody like that, that I could say, you need to go call Michael. And then for me to see the difference after you talk to him, that's why I think it's so helpful to talk about this. Cause like I said, I've never even asked you exactly what he said to you. So that's so helpful. I think with him, he wasn't like every time we talked, he wasn't.
00:18:53
Speaker
And my point with that is he wasn't drawing comparisons even with cancer treatment. He wasn't drawing comparisons about what I was going through and what he had been through.
Actions of Support
00:19:05
Speaker
And so he was allowing me to share what I was feeling and thinking. And he just did such a good job of saying, hey, I don't know what you're going through, but I'm here for you. And I love you. You're going to get through this. And so that was one of the things I think he did.
00:19:22
Speaker
So when there were so many, I just think about some of our, you know, our church family that, you know, when I, you know, called, you know, many of our, you know, folks that were part of our church plan at the time were part of that original core team. And so we had called them very early on. And they were just so good and gracious and kind. Many of them prayed for me. And so there were so many things that people did and said that were super helpful early on.
00:19:47
Speaker
Yeah, and certainly, I mean, scripture, the text messages, the constant text messages of scripture. And then we had you had a whole night where people were praying over you from our church. Like all of those things, people moved in to our suffering and said, you're not doing this alone. Right.
00:20:09
Speaker
So that means so, so much when you just move towards the suffering and not worry about if you're always going to say the right thing. So what so specifically, then what are some things that people can say just really? Yeah. So let's let's go back to that list. So, you know, one of those we mentioned already with the example of Michael is that I don't know what you're going through. And I think that that can be just such an important thing to state. I know that sounds so silly.
00:20:33
Speaker
simple, but just to identify, hey, our suffering is so unique that we can't compare our suffering and so whether you're going through cancer or a miscarriage or some kind of financial instability or insecurity, like just to be able to say to somebody, I don't know what it's like for you to be walking through that, I think can be really helpful and I don't know what you're going through. We mentioned this already, but the second thing would be, I'm
00:20:59
Speaker
just to say you're sorry. Like, I am so sorry. I'm sorry that you have to walk through this. I am sorry that you have to know this pain. I think a third thing that was really helpful for me were those people that said, I'm going to walk with you through this. And that was just a, you know, I think a statement of reassurance of like, you know, not only am I sorry, not only do I not know,
00:21:19
Speaker
what you're going through. But I'm going to walk through it with you. And whatever that looks like, we're not going anywhere. We're going to stick with you. We're going to stick with your wife, your kids.
Ongoing Support and Communication
00:21:28
Speaker
That meant the world to me. And then the fourth thing that I would add is just asking somebody, how can I pray for you? And so I think that meant the world. I mean, that's one of the greatest things that we can do for somebody in the midst of a cancer diagnosis,
00:21:45
Speaker
or some other tragic event is to intercede for them and with them. And so I just remember
00:21:52
Speaker
Some of the folks that did that, when I called them or shared that news, they didn't just say, hey, I'm going to be praying for you. They said, I want to pray for you right now. Or how can I pray for you right now? And they did that. And I think that can be so powerful and so helpful that I know your words can't fix it. I know your words can't take away the pain or the suffering, but I know that God can. And so Let's Go Before is thrown together where we can find mercy and grace.
00:22:17
Speaker
And I would say in all of that, do not stop. I think for me, don't stop reaching out. I think it's easy to let a few weeks go by, a few months go by. Honestly, the people that consistently reached out every couple of days, I had people every single day texting me.
00:22:38
Speaker
The best thing honestly for me were the constant text with scriptures and people telling me that they were praying But I wasn't even you know, I was your wife. I wasn't the one facing cancer and I can't imagine What I'd want to say to someone in that instance, so I want to ask you to
00:22:58
Speaker
Is there anything, and we've kind of talked about the things that people said and did for us and for you specifically, is there anything that you wish people would have said that they didn't say? Yeah, I mean, I know that everybody's so different. And I think a lot of times people, they just assume you don't want to talk about it. And for me, that was cancer. And so certainly there are people that walk through
00:23:27
Speaker
difficult, painful things that they don't want to talk about that. And obviously as a friend, you know that friend better. And so you can kind of discern that. But I think for the most part, people that walk through difficult things like to talk about
Checking in on Emotional Well-being
00:23:41
Speaker
it. I mean, we ran into a neighbor.
00:23:42
Speaker
just a couple weeks ago. And he has become a good friend. And we were out walking. He was riding bikes with his kids. And he even said that. He said, hey, I know you probably don't want to talk about this, but how are you doing? Or I'm sure people ask you all the time, how are you doing? I said, well, actually, they don't. And so I just really appreciated
00:24:08
Speaker
that he keeps asking. And so I think most people that walk through difficult things really appreciate the people that keep asking. And so I think one of the things that I've really appreciated, and I think this is what Michael did early on, is the question, how are you doing today? How are you doing this afternoon or tonight? How are you doing emotionally?
00:24:32
Speaker
And I think that when Michael would ask that question, you know, that's a hard question. It's not how you're doing physically, but it's how are you doing emotionally? Like, where are you, you know, right now, emotionally, spiritually? Are you struggling? Are you hurting? Are you fearful?
00:24:49
Speaker
And so that kind of question just really opened up such a great dialogue. And so I just I loved that question. I think that can be a great way of showing concern for somebody and really getting at what it is that they're wrestling with and thinking about. Yeah. And then knowing how to pray for them again, you don't have to when they tell you how they're feeling emotionally, it's not because I think you say that's a scary question. I don't know what I'd say to them. It's like, don't look them in the eyes.
00:25:16
Speaker
Don't ask that question. Exactly. So if somebody, you know, asking that question and them sharing that with you doesn't mean you have to have a whole list of answers for them. It just means you can say, I am so sorry that that's how you're feeling. And I am going to pray that God gives you peace, you know, whatever it is that they're struggling with emotionally. I just I think that then we can pray specifically for them in that.
00:25:40
Speaker
Yeah, again, we talk about in the book how love doesn't let somebody be alone for too long. And I think that that's part of that principle is that love doesn't let somebody be alone with their own thoughts and their own feelings for too long. And so sometimes just simply asking that question when you see
00:25:57
Speaker
a friend at church, or you're thinking about them, you pick up the phone and call them. I mean, that's a way of just really drawing out what it is that they're wrestling with. And again, we kind of come back to those four things that we talked about of just saying, I don't know what that's like. I'm so sorry. I love you. I know I've said this to you before, but we are with you. We're with your family. We're here for your kids. If there's anything we can do, we're going to do it. And how can I just pray for you right now because of what you're struggling
Resource Guide and Book Pre-order
00:26:24
Speaker
with?
00:26:24
Speaker
Yes, I love that. Well, this has been so good. And like we've said, we know it can be so hard to enter that suffering with your friend. But really, you can be a lifeline for them. And they need you. I know that we need those people in our lives. So I would encourage you to go towards the suffering and not walk away from it.
00:26:46
Speaker
I think God wants to use suffering and others to not only grow them, but actually to grow us as the person walking through that with them. And like we've said, it can be overwhelming and hard to know what to say, and we get that. So I'm really excited to let you know that we put together a simple resource for you called What to Say to Your Friend Who is Facing Cancer.
00:27:09
Speaker
We literally in this resource walk you through these things that we've been talking about. We walk you through three things you can say and how you can stand beside them in their pain. And so I'll make sure that we put that link in our show notes. Also, like we've said earlier in a boat in the middle of a lake isn't here until September 8th, but you can pre-order the book today and start reading right now. You can, you can read the first three chapters
00:27:34
Speaker
We have a comprehensive scripture memorization guide for whatever you are facing and exclusive access to a private Facebook group with Pat and I, where we're going to be giving you a peek into our lives and sharing more resources with you over the next few months. So you can head to Amazon, Barnes and Noble, or really anywhere books are sold to pre-order your copy, we will be sure to leave the link to the pre-order goodies in the show notes. And we thank you so much for your support in pre-ordering.
00:28:03
Speaker
Wow, what a great conversation today. And as you know, if you've been joining us every week, each week we walk away with a key idea. It's the main takeaway summing up what we've talked about. So today's key idea is, we need to be grateful for those who move toward our suffering and gracious towards those who move away from it.
00:28:26
Speaker
We will also be sure to put that key idea in the show notes as well as anything else we referenced at rootlikefaith.com forward slash podcast. You can follow us on Instagram at Patrick W. Schwank and at Ruth Schwank or on Facebook. And as if I didn't say it enough already, we are so thrilled you're joining us and we welcome you into our family here at Root Like Faith.
00:28:49
Speaker
If you enjoyed the show today, would you be so kind to leave us a review or a rating and be sure to subscribe on Apple Podcasts so you don't miss an episode. Talk to you soon.