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Episode 32 Having Grace at Home in Those Not-So-Perfect Moments
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Transcript
Introduction to Root Like Faith Podcast
00:00:01
Speaker
Hi, I'm Ruth Schwank and I'm so thrilled you're listening in with us at Root Like Faith. It is our deepest desire to encourage and equip men and women to be rooted in God's word, transformed by the love of Jesus and moved by his mission in the power of the Holy Spirit. Nothing is more important.
Facing Imperfection in Marriage & Parenting
00:00:18
Speaker
Well, today we are talking about how there are a lot of not so perfect moments in a couple's life and in parenting. I mean, the truth is our kids are growing up and as they're growing up, well, we're trying to grow up as well. Don't you think, honey? Absolutely. Not that you know anything about that.
00:00:39
Speaker
So I've heard. So I've read on the internet. Right. So we're going to be looking at why it's so important to have grace with one another in those not so perfect moments. This is going to be good.
23 Years of Marriage: Lessons & Challenges
00:00:50
Speaker
Let's go.
00:00:52
Speaker
Well, we have been married for, let's see, over 23 years. 23 years and a couple months. Which is a long time. A very long time, don't you think, honey? You know, honestly, it's been so enjoyable that it feels like such a short time to me.
00:01:11
Speaker
It's the truth. That is a long time. When you say it like that, we're getting old. We're not spring chickens anymore. Well, and I'm bringing it up because there is a lot of time to experience those not so perfect moments when you've been married that long. Yeah, absolutely. There's a lot of room for error in 23 years. And I think if one was keeping score, I feel like I have way more of those not so perfect moments than you do.
00:01:37
Speaker
And I'm not just saying that because we're recording a podcast, but I do believe that. I mean, I think about the, you know, one of the classic examples that comes to my mind, which I think we've talked about before, was the night before I was starting my doctoral program out in California, we all flew out together. Yeah, as a family. As a family.
Grace in Chaotic Family Moments
00:01:56
Speaker
So it was, you know, me and you and our four kids.
00:01:59
Speaker
They were little. This is like five years. It's at least been five, six years ago now, maybe six years ago. And so I was getting it was a Sunday night, which, you know, any time after nine o'clock, I'm vulnerable. I'm a morning person. So I already had that working against me. And it was it was after nine. It was probably closer to 10 10 30. And I remember Tyler, who's 19 now, he was in the bathroom with Noah, our other son.
00:02:22
Speaker
and Noah was brushing his teeth and they were being boys and you know Tyler like poked him in the side you know gave him a rib shot or something and it was just enough that Noah kind of jerked his head and hit his lip you know cut his lip on the sink
00:02:33
Speaker
He hit it on, and those sinks are... They're the real deal. Yeah, it's like ceramic. He cut it open, and of course, I... He's crying. He's crying. Screaming, actually, I think. Then I, and again, a not-so-perfect moment, spring into action and begin getting upset, which then caused Tyler to cry, and then the girls, Bella and Sophia, were in the other room, so they heard Dad having a major meltdown, so then they began crying and then ran into the other room.
00:03:02
Speaker
And then I think at that point is when, I think that's about when you stopped talking to me. And so it was just like, it was a domino effect. It was like one thing led to another and I was the cause of it and it was not pretty. It was not so perfect moment. It was like, honestly, I felt like it should be a movie. It was like an epic meltdown. The next person cries, the next person cries, the next person cries. What's ironic about that is that I was starting my doctoral studies in discipleship the next day. And I remember going into class that next morning
00:03:30
Speaker
And I felt so defeated, I felt so discouraged. And I remember we had to go around and actually share why we were in the program. Like, I just need to be like Jesus. I don't need to share what happened last night. But trust me. Let me tell you what happened last night. There's a discipleship gap. I think that's what I said. And we'll just leave it at that, right? So there are, there's all those, I mean, marriage, I mean, life is hard. There's just stressful moments and you're working and you're trying to pay bills.
00:03:58
Speaker
you know, then you bring kids into that mix, and it is. As your kids are growing up, you know, so are we. And one of the great gifts of marriage is that it is a sanctifier, that God uses it to make us holy, to make us more righteous. But boy, that journey can be challenging and difficult, and it's so important that we're building grace into that marriage with kids, which is what we're going to be talking about.
Addressing Challenges Through Communication
00:04:21
Speaker
Well and that's what I am glad you brought that up because I think that's you know why we're talking about this because it's important that we don't sweep these things under the rug because honestly there have been many times where like it's I just don't even want to talk about it anymore you know I go to bed I wake up in the morning and just want to pretend like nobody got mad last night you know nobody had a meltdown
00:04:44
Speaker
But we can't grow and learn from those things if we do that. And so I think that's why it would be really helpful for us to kind of talk through this today. And what does it look like? How do we actually have grace in those moments? And no relationship can stand apart from grace, apart from just the forgiveness that we extend and humility with one another, gentleness with one another. It reminds me.
00:05:11
Speaker
of the story.
Wartime Grace: Avoiding Conflict Escalation
00:05:13
Speaker
I love historical fiction, and I don't know that this is a historical fiction. This is, I think, just real history. Yeah, that was actually a... So the book is called A Higher Calling, I think, if I'm remembering right. It's an extraordinary story that takes place during World War II about a German pilot and an American pilot.
00:05:29
Speaker
And they actually meet on enemy territory. I think if I'm remembering the story correctly, the American pilot, his name was Charlie Brown, Charles Brown, but they call him Charlie Brown. He flew into enemy territory and not long after entering enemy territory, he was flying like a B-17 Fortress plane.
00:05:47
Speaker
And it just got shredded by the enemy, so much so that his plane literally began to nosedive. And he went from like, I don't know, like 20,000 feet in the air to about 100, 200 feet above German soil. And it was at that time that the German pilots saw him and actually put his finger on the trigger. He had him in his sights and was getting ready to just pull the trigger.
00:06:10
Speaker
And and basically finish him off and it's an amazing story that the story then goes on to say instead of that German fighter Pulling the trigger and just blowing him out of the air He actually came to his defense and the two of them then flew back over the Atlantic that here this American fighter and fighter jet that were badly wounded and
00:06:31
Speaker
were protected by this German fighter in plane, and he actually flew him across to safety. But let me read. There's a great line that the author describes. He says, Franz, this is the German fighter. It says, Franz squinted and aimed through his gun sight. He lowered his finger onto the trigger, a pound of pressure away from igniting the guns. And I just love that phrase. Literally one pound of pressure was the difference between life and death. And of course, the story goes on. The author goes on to recount.
00:06:59
Speaker
how instead of pulling the trigger, he actually takes his finger off of the trigger. And that was the difference between life and death. And I love that story because it's such a reminder that in marriage, in stressful moments and chaotic moments, oftentimes we have our finger right on the trigger.
00:07:15
Speaker
And it's just one pound of pressure, you know, if you will, between pulling the trigger between life and death, between launching into a big argument, a big fight, division, whatever, and how grace really is about taking that finger off of the trigger and saying, I'm not going to shoot you out of the air, but we're in this together. I'm actually going to protect you and fight for you. And I'm going to extend grace to you instead of pulling the trigger. And so I've always loved that story.
00:07:40
Speaker
In fact, we tell the full story in our book for better for kids, but it's a powerful story. I think it's a good illustration of what exercising grace and marriage and family is all about. Well, it's not just jumping like you just want to jump in there, you know what I mean? Or react and it's it's pausing and I can't even that story is so incredible and can't even imagine
00:08:00
Speaker
but I think it's also seeing like when I think about that story I think about the other pilot the pilot with his finger on the trigger seeing the other pilot knowing you know obviously he could take destroy him at that moment but seeing that other pilot for who he was and that was a human being
00:08:21
Speaker
Not the enemy and I think that is really powerful like he saw who that he he was a human Being and he and like how could he take his life? He needed to help him and I think in marriage Honestly, that's we need to remember that that's a human who is loved by God her spouse You know is loved by God. They're made by God and we honor them when we have grace with them and
00:08:48
Speaker
It's a great point. There's actually another part in the book, and we don't talk about it in our book, but there's another section in that book, A Higher Call, that he does. He talks about that, that how here they are. They're two fighters, and they're fighting for different countries, different nations that are at war with each other. But there's this scene in the book
00:09:07
Speaker
where the pilot sort of goes back and he's kind of recalling his love for flying. And like here's this pilot who they're again, they're enemies, but yet what unites them is that they were little boys once and they love to fly. And it's what eventually led them to join the military and to become pilots. And though they were enemies at that time in history, the reality is that they were connected
00:09:32
Speaker
you know, with their love for flying. And so it's really, you know, kind of what you're saying is that I think in the midst of chaos and difficult situations, sometimes you forget, hey, we're, we've been called into, into marriage and family, and you're an image bearer of God, a child of God, and so am I. And so again, we're fighting for one another and not against one another, just remembering that as we get into stressful situations.
00:09:54
Speaker
Yeah, so let's talk a little bit more about grace.
Biblical Grace: Love & Forgiveness in Marriage
00:09:58
Speaker
And I thought we could read from Ephesians 2, 8 through 9, which says, For it is by grace you have been saved through faith, and this is not from yourselves. It is the gift of God, not by works, so that no one can boast. And I know that's a familiar verse that many listeners have heard. But I think it'd be good to just kind of dive into grace a little bit here so that we have
00:10:24
Speaker
a foundational understanding of it. Yeah, I think the New Testament talks a lot about that kind of grace that you just read, Ephesians 2, 8, 9, again, is that classic example of how we become a Christian, that it's the gift of God, that it's this free gift that God gives us to receive by faith, and so we come into a right relationship with God.
00:10:47
Speaker
by having faith in Jesus, and that's a gift that God gives us. We either reject that or receive that. But grace is, on one hand, it's this unmerited favor, right? We don't deserve that gift. God freely gives it to us. The other way that the New Testament talks about grace is that grace is a power. It's the life of God in us, and it strengthens us, it empowers us. And so the grace that we're talking about here, that Paul's talking about here in Ephesians 2, is that undeserving love.
00:11:15
Speaker
And so when we apply that to marriage, when we're talking about extending grace to one another, we're really talking about that undeserving love and kindness and forgiveness that we show towards one another. It's the idea of still loving, forgiving, encouraging, in situations where we don't deserve it. I mean, that's the love of God towards us in Christ. And we've talked about before this idea that grace really
00:11:43
Speaker
by itself is useless,
Being a Humble Listener
00:11:45
Speaker
right? You need somebody else. The grace in isolation is sort of meaningless, right? And so when we think about God being gracious, it's not just who He is. He's a God of grace, but it's what He does. He acts towards us in grace. He loves us in a way that is undeserving.
00:12:04
Speaker
And we're on the receiving end of that. And I think what's so powerful about that and about this scripture is, I don't know, for me, it's always helpful to remember the grace that has been extended to me because that is the same grace I need to extend to others, you know? And I think that's really powerful. Like, how can I not extend grace to someone else when grace has been so powerfully extended to me?
00:12:32
Speaker
And I just think that's something that we ought to think on and come back to often in the times that we feel wronged, or we want to get somebody back, or you know what I mean, that we're triggered, or whatever it is, that God, the grace that He gave us, it's only right that we extend that grace.
00:12:53
Speaker
as well. Yeah, I mean, I think, you know, in Ephesians chapter four, verse two, the Apostle Paul, again, writing to that church in Ephesus, he says, always be humble and gentle. And so, you know, what you're talking about is like, boy, prideful people are great at seeing the sin of other people, but they're really bad at spotting their own sin. And so again, Jesus said that you can't get into the kingdom of God unless you recognize your poverty of spirit, right? That's the way into the kingdom.
00:13:20
Speaker
is to be poor in spirit, to recognize your neediness for a savior. And Paul's saying, listen, always be humble with one another and be gentle with one another. Put one another at ease. Then he goes on to say, be patient with each other. And I love this line. He says, making allowance for each other's faults because of your love. So there are going to be faults. There's going to be faults, right? And so as Paul's writing,
00:13:44
Speaker
these different letters that we call epistles or books of our New Testament, there's that kind of language all over again that in order to maintain relationship with one another, we need to live out the gospel, the good news, God's grace and his forgiveness. And he's saying here in Ephesians 4 verse 2, just anticipate that. Make room for it. Make room for one another's allowances.
00:14:06
Speaker
or make allowances for one another's faults because there are going to be many. And as you and I, as we think about marriage and families, we're growing up, we need lots of grace to be able to stay in relationship with one another.
00:14:22
Speaker
Well, and I think what can happen over the years, too, is we can become so comfortable and just kind of stuck in a rut that we forget, you know, we're all focused on extending grace with others, but we forget that we aren't extending it with one another. To the people that are closest to us. Yeah, I mean, I think that that can happen so often with the people that are closest to us, whether that's our spouse or our kids or our parents or whoever that is.
00:14:50
Speaker
So I think just remembering that first and foremost, that grace has to be lived out at home. It's what we always say, who you are at home is who you really are. And that's so important. So let's get practical here.
Improving Communication: Humility & Inquiry
00:15:06
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, I think that's probably one of the first practical things I would say is that make room for one another's faults. I mean, just anticipate that in marriage and especially family, there's going to be not a lot of not so perfect moments. And so, you know, I think as a couple, you're thinking, OK, we just we just need that. That's a perspective we just need to have.
00:15:27
Speaker
that you're growing up, I'm growing up. And as we're growing in Christ-likeness, we just need to make room for one another's faults. Again, we don't want to have like this suffocating relationship where there's no room to mess up or to make mistakes. And so we just need to be kind of people that are humble, that are gentle, that are patient with one another, and that we're allowing for one another's faults. We're allowing for God to do His work through the power of His Spirit.
00:15:53
Speaker
in his timing and in his way. And we see each other as, again, both a work in progress. So make room for one another's faults. The next thing that I would say is really practical is to learn to listen. And well, that can be hard. I feel like I've already mastered that. So are there any more?
00:16:14
Speaker
Right, tell me the next thing to do. But in In For Better For Kids, we have a list of three types of listening. Three ways you should basically be a good listener. Do you remember, I think this is when we were living in Bryan, Ohio when I was pastoring at New Hope.
00:16:31
Speaker
I remember us, you know, sitting in our family room and we were telling a story or you were telling a story and I was listening and the story kept going on. I don't remember this and on and on. And I mean, we were deep in it. You were deep into the story. And at some point, like I started thinking about like what I needed to do the next day or
00:16:51
Speaker
Something you know I was maybe I was thinking about retirement I don't know what I was thinking about But I remember there came a point where it was obvious that that you were asking me a question And you didn't have and I had no idea I honestly do not remember you shouldn't have brought it up. I shouldn't love keeps no record or wrongs
00:17:07
Speaker
Anyways, so I all that to say I'm anxious to hear well, honey now, you know types of listening But this is because apparently I need to learn no, this is a while ago Well, this is proof and now you know why literally every single time I'm telling you a story how many times during the story do I go? Are you listening?
00:17:23
Speaker
Yeah, that is true. Maybe that's why. Listen, but I actually do that with everybody. I like to tell stories, and I want to make sure that you hear every detail. I know, I know. I feel like I need a Gatorade before some of your stories. Sometimes I get dehydrated. OK, now come on. OK, so we have a list of a few ways that you can be a good listener with your spouse. So the first thing that we listed is to be a humble listener.
00:17:52
Speaker
And you know, that's an interesting one because I think, I don't know, sometimes I can tend to jump in and want to tell you what, oh, like I have an answer for what you're saying. I've never noticed that.
00:18:09
Speaker
But while we're there, explain, do tell. Well, I just think being a humble listener is letting somebody say what they need to say and not feel like you need to give them an answer or just listen or have a solution. And I think, of course, these things apply to other relationships as well. And I think, I don't know, maybe I feel like this is such a good one because I can have a tendency to want to say,
00:18:35
Speaker
hey oh I have an idea or you know what I mean to solve whatever you're sharing with me and I want to and so I think being a humble listener is just letting somebody share without feeling like you have to give them a solution or you know it's I mean it's prideful or if you're having having conflict that you're already defending yourself
00:18:56
Speaker
Well, that's true, too. Before you're even listening to that person or to your spouse. And so, yeah, I think being a humble listener, yeah, it includes just being okay with hearing somebody, listening to somebody without trying to fix them or give an immediate solution. But just, you know, trusting the Holy Spirit is going to guide you in that wisdom that maybe they're asking you for. But in areas of conflict or when there is conflict, also just really avoiding
00:19:20
Speaker
in your own head already building a case for yourself as to why you're right and why they're wrong. You know, humble listener really does listen intently, ask questions, is open to being wrong, and is just trying to hear and understand the person first and foremost, which I think is a really good, you know, I think one of the really good things to do is when somebody is
00:19:40
Speaker
and your spouse is telling you something, you're having that conversation, is to always repeat to them, you know, if I'm understanding you correctly, this is what you're saying, is to really be able to say that. Why are you laughing at me? I'm just laughing because I'm picturing like the conversation. I'm picturing you saying, and then I'm picturing me saying, no, that's not what I mean at all.
00:19:58
Speaker
Well, then that's why I asked the question. I know. That's true. So anyways, all right. Are there more on that list? Yes, there are. OK, all right. So the second one is to be an undistracted listener. And that would fall back to that story. You said that you were planning all sorts of things in your mind, and then you didn't even know when I got to the question what I was even asking you. I was long gone by then. I mean, let's be honest. We all fall into this at times. I'm with you for a little bit. And then I'm thinking, oh, I got to go do this.
00:20:28
Speaker
And most people have the attention span of a gnat anymore. Our social media technology has completely destroyed our attention span. Well, I know. But even if that's not the case, we just don't have, a lot of us aren't good listeners in this way. A lot of us can become easily distracted. And I think especially in the case, when we're talking here about parenting, and we're talking about that kids are around,
00:20:55
Speaker
I mean, sometimes you're, it's, you can't. Impossible. Right, I mean, you're distracted. I can't even hear my own thoughts, let alone what you're saying. You're distracted because, you know, somebody's calling your name or the baby's crying. I think that is, it's a really good point, because oftentimes what we need to do, especially with kids in the house, is just push pause on those conversations and say, you know what, this is not going to be a productive conversation. If we try to have this right now,
00:21:24
Speaker
dad's gonna have a meltdown. And so let's just put that conversation on pause, and let's wait till the kids are in bed, or let's go for a drive, go for a walk, and take some of those distractions out of the mix and then enter into a much more God honoring conversation. But yeah, even things like our cell phones, we're just so accessible and I think just learning if we're gonna have a conversation to put those phones away or to leave them somewhere else so that your spouse can really be
00:21:54
Speaker
the center of your attention and have the focus that they deserve. Yeah, and I think if you know there's going to be a lot of distractions, it's better to just say, hey, let's talk about this later. You know what I mean? Like we were talking about. It's that simple. Absolutely. We can't talk about this. But it's so hard because it's like, especially with conflict, it's like you want to just get in and resolve it. I know. The sooner I'm right, the better. Or I just don't want to, I just want to walk away. Usually for me, I need to process it.
00:22:22
Speaker
I'm okay to say let's talk about this later. So the third way is to be an inquisitive listener.
Forgiveness in Marriage & Family Relationships
00:22:30
Speaker
And I think that's not only listening, but really engaging that you're really trying to understand what they're saying and giving insight and obviously it depends on what you're talking about, but I think just being engaged in the conversation.
00:22:49
Speaker
I think what you said is really just seeking to understand. That's huge. Just trying to understand where your spouse is coming from and why they said that or why they did that or why they want to do that. That seeking understanding is so important. I think it's so critical if we're going to have healthy communication.
00:23:07
Speaker
just a healthy relationship. One of the other things that comes to mind, we talk about some practical things, make room for one another's allowances. We're talking now about learning to listen, but I would just add- Make room for one another's faults. Make room for one another's faults, I'm sorry.
00:23:24
Speaker
And then the third thing we talked about is learn to listen, which is what you were describing, some of those different ways that we can be a better listener. God loves us by the way He listens to us, and so we show the love of Christ to one another when we learn to listen well. But I would say the fourth practical thing that we can do as a couple
00:23:43
Speaker
is we don't make small things into big things. I think of Proverbs chapter 19 verse 11 that says, a person's wisdom yields patience. It's to one's glory to overlook an offense. And so you just think about how many small things and insignificant things in marriage that we could just move on. I mean, obviously, there are big things, there are very serious things that a couple has to deal with.
00:24:05
Speaker
It needs to work through sometimes with a pastor or a counselor, but there's an awful lot. There's a million little things that a couple can just get hung up on. They can trip over. And so that's really what the writer of Proverbs is talking about. Like it's to our glory that we just learn to overlook small, meaningless
00:24:23
Speaker
you know, offenses. And so there's a big difference between you breaking my preferences and you breaking God's commands, right? And so there's all sorts of preferences we might bring into marriage or family that are insignificant. That's a big difference between somebody doing something morally wrong, right? And so I think, you know, learning to recognize what some of those preferences are and surrendering those and saying, those don't really matter much. My marriage is more important than me having my preference.
00:24:51
Speaker
Yeah. So this is kind of funny because this is a small preference, but I don't like where this is going already. Well, no, no. So if you're taking, cause we have the note takers here, that was actually number three. You said that was the fourth thing. It was make room for one another's faults. We spent a long time on learn to listen because we were sharing the different ways to learn to listen. And the third thing is, you know, not making the big, the small stuff, the big stuff.
00:25:16
Speaker
Honey, I stand corrected. Believe it or not, I've aired. I thought, oh no. I didn't think I'd ever see this day. I thought, oh, I better mention that, because if somebody's taking notes, they're going, wait, I missed one. They're pulling their car over. I'm saying that for myself, because I am a note taker. And I'd be like, oh no, wait, which one did I miss trying to figure it out? My bad.
00:25:36
Speaker
Turns out I'm not perfect, my goodness. My goodness, our conflict in the podcast. Anyways, lastly, I think just learning to be quick to forgive and extending forgiveness to one another. And I think, you know, that's having grace with one another. And I know, I mean, I say that and I know that can be really difficult.
00:25:57
Speaker
When we did a whole, I would just encourage our listeners to go back and listen to that whole episode we did on forgiveness. There's just so much in that that obviously we can't cover now. But yeah, I mean, just I think being quick to, it's so strange to me that those that we're closest to and those that we love the most are oftentimes the hardest to ask for forgiveness or extend forgiveness. And so it's, you know, always been odd to me that in marriage or in family,
00:26:25
Speaker
It's that much harder for whatever reason. I don't know whether our listeners would agree with that or not if that's true in their life, but I feel like that in my life, that has certainly been true. I just called somebody not too long ago. There were several people in my life that for several years, I just felt like, man, I need to repair that relationship.
00:26:45
Speaker
And no matter what they need to own on their end, that's insignificant to me. And so I did, just within the last couple of weeks called and said, hey, I need to repent of the way I acted in this situation and that situation. It wasn't Christ-like. I'm just asking for your forgiveness. And that's not really being quick to forgive. That took me several years to do that. And so we know that's a process, depending on the offense, but it's so important.
00:27:08
Speaker
to build in to a marriage and into family, just that biblical principle of asking for forgiveness and extending forgiveness, that's what it looks like to extend grace in those not so perfect moments. And it's, again, so important for us to work through this and understand this because having grace in those not so perfect moments, it's a process. It takes time to learn how to do that.
00:27:38
Speaker
I think as the years go by in marriage, I don't know, honey, would you agree it gets easier? Absolutely. If you're working on it. If you actually work on it. And there will be times and seasons where it feels like, oh my word, there's more conflict than ever. But you just don't give up on that. You keep working on it and you keep growing and you keep learning. And that's why it's important to talk about it.
00:28:03
Speaker
Well, I think, again, as we've talked about so many times before, I mean, our goal is to have a faith that's rooted.
Sacrificial Love & Grace Demonstrated by Christ
00:28:10
Speaker
And it's rooted in Christ. It's rooted in the love that He's demonstrated for us. It's demonstrated in the cross. I mean, forgiveness is costly. And so we look at the cross and we recognize that what it costs God
00:28:21
Speaker
through the giving of his son was extraordinary. And so to do that in marriage, to extend that kind of love towards one another, you can't love somebody without suffering for them. And that's what we see in the cross, that God's love was demonstrated through the suffering of his son, Jesus. And we're called to lay down our life for one another and to extend grace and sacrificial love and forgiveness, because that's how God has acted towards us.
00:28:45
Speaker
I love that. And that is the perfect way to wrap this episode up.
Engagement & Further Resources
00:28:50
Speaker
Well, friend, we're so grateful you have joined us. If we haven't met yet, we want to get to know you. So be sure to follow us on Instagram at Patrick W. Schwank and at Ruth Schwank or on Facebook. And don't forget that everything we talked about will be at RuthLikeFaith.com.
00:29:07
Speaker
We'll also make sure to put a link to that episode on forgiveness that we mentioned. Well, we are so, so grateful for you. We hope you have the best week and we will chat soon.