Transcript
Speaker: Hello and welcome to Curious Objects, brought to you by the magazine Antiques, I'm Ben Miller.
Speaker: This is the podcast about art, decorative arts and antiques, the stories behind them, and what they can reveal to us about ourselves and the people who came before us.
Speaker: Now, if I say the word antique, I'm pretty sure I know the mental image that pops up for you.
Speaker: Let's see, is it a dark brown wooden chest of drawers?
Speaker: Yeah, I think for so many of us, that is kind of the most basic stereotype of an antique.
Speaker: It's what people in the business sometimes call brown furniture, which by the way, is a term I hate because it's so reductive and dismissive.
Speaker: But when people say brown furniture, what they're talking about is a lineage of hundreds of years of woodworking, carpentry, cabinet making, working with one of the most beautiful and versatile materials that the earth has blessed us with, wood.
Speaker: And crafting that wood into objects that are perfectly designed to live with.
Speaker: So today I'm really excited to talk about an exquisite piece of furniture, which happens to be brown, but it's so much more than just a color.
Speaker: It's a very unusual chest of drawers from 18th century Virginia.
Speaker: And there's a lot to get into about what makes this piece so special.
Speaker: And we're also gonna talk about some broader tips for how to look at antique furniture, how to tell whether it even is antique and how to think about what it might be worth.
Speaker: So I think you'll find a lot of useful advice.
Speaker: And if that's not enough to get you excited, fortunately, my guest today is a fascinating guy and a good friend of mine.
Speaker: And if there's anyone who can get you excited about an 18th century Virginia chest, it's Taylor Thistlethwaite.
Speaker: Taylor is the creator of Thistlethwaite Americana in Middleburg, Virginia, where he buys and sells some of the great pieces of early American furniture and decorative arts.
Speaker: And if he sounds familiar, it might be because you heard him on Curious Objects.
Speaker: He played a central role in the rediscovery of the portrait of Belizear and the Frayed Children that we covered back in 2022.
Speaker: Taylor, it's great to have you back on Curious Objects.
Speaker: Thanks, Ben.
Speaker: I am thrilled to be here and happy to talk about some exciting brown furniture.
Speaker: Isn't it all exciting?
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: Are you ready for some rapid fire questions?
Speaker: Let's go.
Speaker: What is the best wood?
Speaker: Oh,
Speaker: Well, it's hard to narrow it down, but what I'd tell you is don't just think of wood as something brown.
Speaker: I mean, there's so much life in it.
Speaker: And it's funny, these pieces can be 300 to 400 years old and even older.
Speaker: And the wood is still, in a sense, alive because it's constantly moving and shifting with changes in temperature and humidity.
Speaker: So, honestly, wood is a lot like a fine wine.
Speaker: The older it gets, the better it looks.
Speaker: All right.
Speaker: Well, you evaded the question a little bit, but I'll let you get away with that one.
Speaker: What is... Well, it's too hard to just put a finger on it.
Speaker: I mean... Well, I never said these were going to be easy.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: What's a fitting punishment for someone who sets a sweaty, icy glass of water down on a beautiful antique table without a coaster?
Speaker: Um, you know, summary execution.
Speaker: Well, I, you know, it's hard for me to execute things when I have made the same mistake.
Speaker: But what I will say is make sure you have a hairdryer very handy and can get that dry as fast as possible.
Speaker: That's a good tip.
Speaker: Yeah, but the best thing I can say is don't do it, but these things are meant to be treated with respect.
Speaker: If you set a glass on it for a second or two and wipe it up quick, hey, that's okay.
Speaker: It's when you run into situations that you leave stuff setting on it for hours and you get the big white rings, and that one deserves a big deal.
Speaker: thick uh kicking the the rear okay uh what's what is one book that an amateur should read to start to understand old furniture oh god uh i can't limit it to one but i i will give you three uh books that i uh i really recommend to everybody here we go again
Speaker: And they're kind of basic.
Speaker: One is The Finer Points of Furniture by Albert Sack.
Speaker: It's the perfect book to kind of learn form and teach us about the most basic good, better, best of the different forms of furniture.
Speaker: Now, the problem with that book, it is very New England and Philadelphia centric.
Speaker: So if you want to learn more about Southern furniture and
Speaker: how Southern pieces are built and just how a kind of good understanding of how these things are put together.
Speaker: Southern furniture by colonial Williamsburg is one of my absolute favorites.
Speaker: And actually I'm just going to give you those two, because I think there's, there's a few other sources that maybe we'll get into a little later that are great education sources for people.
Speaker: Sounds good.
Speaker: What is something that you've bought that your wife really hates?
Speaker: Um, well, I'm not trying to get you in trouble here, but you can be honest.
Speaker: Uh, I have bought a handful of ugly paintings that she is not a big fan of.
Speaker: And, uh, one of the things that I just can't seem to get rid of no matter what is a great little one drawer stand that looks like it has been through a hurricane and
Speaker: But it's been with me since I was 16.
Speaker: And, you know, no matter what happens, this thing's going to stick with me, even though it is got that ugly piece of furniture that is now relegated to a guest room.
Speaker: Okay, so the aliens have finally arrived.
Speaker: They've decided, of course, to wipe us out.
Speaker: But in their infinite mercy, they've agreed to preserve one work of decorative art to memorialize humanity for all time.
Speaker: What should we give them?
Speaker: Well, that is an interesting question because...
Speaker: It's not just one thing that I can easily pick out, but the thing that I think represents America kind of better than any singular form would be a fully carved Rococo Philadelphia high boy, because not only is this kind of a very distinctive American form,
Speaker: But the carving is spectacular.
Speaker: The wood is spectacular.
Speaker: The brass is spectacular.
Speaker: It is the pinnacle of American craftsmanship.
Speaker: And it just represents a piece that, in my mind, just could stand the test of time.
Speaker: And from ball and claw feet to wonderful rosettes and big flame finials, it just...
Speaker: For me, it's always a piece of furniture, but it's hard to say the Mona Lisa is not high on that list or something along those lines.
Speaker: Of course, great... God, you think about the sculpture of David, and it's so hard to limit to one piece, but for me, as an American, as a lover of all American furniture, that high-style Philadelphia rococo carved...
Speaker: Highboy would just be, you know, a tough one to pass up.
Speaker: All right.
Speaker: Well, I'll drink a glass of bourbon to that.
Speaker: We'll be right back with Taylor Thistlefwaite to talk about antique furniture and this very unusual chest of drawers.
Speaker: If you'd like to see pictures of it, you can go to themagazineantiques.com slash podcast, which I highly recommend.
Speaker: You can also, if you'd like, support Curious Objects by leaving us a review on Apple Podcasts.
Speaker: Someone recently wrote there, Pure delight.
Speaker: I discovered Curious Objects just last month and have been devouring it going through all the episodes, often twice.
Speaker: Wow.
Speaker: Thank you so much for that.
Speaker: Honestly, I'm so thrilled to hear that you're enjoying it.
Speaker: Anyone else who's listening and enjoying it, I'd love to hear from you too.
Speaker: These Apple podcast reviews really help us out.
Speaker: Or you can always get in touch with me directly via email at curiousobjectspodcast at gmail.com or on Instagram at Objective Interest.
Speaker: I'd love to hear about your curious objects and I'd love to hear your ideas for future episodes.
Speaker: Okay, let's get back to Taylor Thistlethwaite.
Speaker: Taylor, I want to start with this incredible chest, and then we can talk about some general tips for listeners about looking at furniture.
Speaker: Maybe they can learn something from how you approached this particular piece.
Speaker: And so I want to ask how you originally came across it.
Speaker: And if you can remember, what was your very first impression of it?
Speaker: Well, I found this piece at the height of COVID.
Speaker: And the challenge for dealers during COVID was we actually were a very tactile group.
Speaker: We love to go see pieces, examine them in person, and just feel them.
Speaker: Because you can really understand so much more about a piece from actually physically being with it than others.
Speaker: not being there, but, uh, this piece was actually up in new England and it was in the middle of nowhere and there was no chance I could ever go to see it in the middle of COVID.
Speaker: And when I first saw it, it was, you know, in a rural auction up in new England and they listed it as a Philadelphia chest.
Speaker: And I could see why they did say Philadelphia.
Speaker: Um,
Speaker: You know, the form kind of translates back and forth between Philadelphia.
Speaker: You know, the typical two over three chest of drawers is something that is very common up in Philadelphia.
Speaker: What does that mean, two over three?
Speaker: Oh, the drawer configuration.
Speaker: So you have two small drawers over three larger drawers.
Speaker: Okay, so the two drawers side by side and then three big drawers, one on top of the other, right?
Speaker: Correct.
Speaker: Correct.
Speaker: And so you see that in Philadelphia, but it sounds like you also see it in other places.
Speaker: Oh, you see it everywhere, but if you're looking at the piece, you'll notice it kind of has this real boxy configuration.
Speaker: And it just felt too kind of unusual for...
Speaker: Philadelphia.
Speaker: You'd expect to see a molding underneath the top, a little bit just different build, should I say.
Speaker: So that was kind of my first clue.
Speaker: And then the second clue was the drawer sides and drawer bottoms were all yellow pine.
Speaker: And yellow pine is a wood that truly grows from
Speaker: Pennsylvania south, but the further south you go, the more prevalent it is as a secondary wood.
Speaker: And, um, you know, learning your woods is, is kind of the, the big technique and helping to identify locations where pieces were made.
Speaker: So, um, but the piece had everything that makes a
Speaker: a dealer's heart go pitter-patter.
Speaker: It was a small size.
Speaker: The rule of thumb is the smaller the chest, the higher the dollar.
Speaker: This one's 34 inches wide, which in a New England standpoint, that's not normal, but on the smaller side.
Speaker: In a Pennsylvania standpoint, that again is
Speaker: oh that's the the width we'd like you know if it could get smaller in the south we like big chest and don't see a lot of big chest being our little diminutives in scaled size chest being made in the south especially at this early of a period the second thing that just made my jaw drop was the finish
Speaker: This is, if I have to say, hey, everybody wants an old finish, what do we look for?
Speaker: This is the finish.
Speaker: And it has this great allure to it.
Speaker: And you'll notice there's, I always tell people to look for the highs and lows in a finish on a piece.
Speaker: So around the brasses, that's the hardest part to actually polish and wax.
Speaker: So it normally has either a residue or a buildup.
Speaker: especially around the brasses, because they would be using, back in the day, they used brick dust and all kinds of different things to actually polish the brasses.
Speaker: And you could probably comment on what people used to polish stuff in the 18th century better than anybody.
Speaker: But, you know, so you get this contrast.
Speaker: And if you see the chest on the top edge, and as you gradually go down the chest,
Speaker: It goes from a darker, richer patina to a slightly lighter patina.
Speaker: And that just makes sense because that's the way the sun would hit it.
Speaker: You know, the sun wouldn't directly hit it straight on.
Speaker: It would hit it kind of going hit mainly focusing on the top and going down the front when it was sitting in somebody's home.
Speaker: And I'm sure plenty of us have been into a home and seen something where maybe the front of a chest looks great, but then the side is completely bleached out from the sun.
Speaker: So when the sun, I love the effects that the sun can do to a piece.
Speaker: So just because a piece is light in color does not mean that it isn't the original finish.
Speaker: More than likely, it means that that piece just had a lot more focus in the sun.
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: But hopefully it's not totally uneven and out of whack, like, you know, like a rug that's been sitting in the same orientation for 50 years.
Speaker: Oh, absolutely.
Speaker: You know, when you move the sofa, it's always a little darker and things like that.
Speaker: But, you know, so...
Speaker: That really, really got me excited.
Speaker: And the Brasses, they're these nice kind of Chippendale, Queen Anne transitional Brasses where they're starting to get a little bit bigger outside of the Queen Anne pick period.
Speaker: And so they have more of a presence to them that is really, really appealing to me.
Speaker: And you can tell that they've been on this thing forever.
Speaker: And it just, it was remarkable.
Speaker: The shape of the foot was highly unusual to me.
Speaker: And, you know, back then we got on a FaceTime or Zoom to look at pieces with auctioneers who were most of the time more than gracious to help out with that.
Speaker: And I noticed that the front feet were made out of two hunks of wood, which there's people who did that.
Speaker: But that's kind of an unusual thing.
Speaker: Most of the time they would have a supporting block in the back and had the foot built around kind of a substructure.
Speaker: And then in the back on the feet, you know, normally the feet just kind of sit on the ground and support the case.
Speaker: There was a really unusual board that stretched all the way across the back of the chest.
Speaker: And it kind of was a indication the cabinetmaker who clearly knew what he was doing.
Speaker: was trying something new to him, trying something that was slightly different.
Speaker: And that also kind of helps point to an earlier date.
Speaker: So just to go back to a second too, so it's at the auction house in New England, and it has a lot of features that are familiar to you from Philadelphia furniture.
Speaker: You know, you mentioned some ways in which it had some features that are maybe more common or more particular to Southern pieces.
Speaker: But...
Speaker: It sounds like it probably wasn't a kind of light switch flipping to tell you that this was definitely a Southern piece or definitely a Virginia piece, right?
Speaker: I mean, no, you know, especially at the COVID time.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Because you're not looking at it in person.
Speaker: You're looking at it through photos and FaceTime.
Speaker: So how did that go?
Speaker: I mean, how did you come around to thinking that it was actually from Virginia and not from Philadelphia or someplace else?
Speaker: Well, the form would have been very peculiar for Pennsylvania, Philadelphia, influenced furniture.
Speaker: And the truth is, it was a gamble.
Speaker: It was a real kind of throw of the dice because I wanted to take a look at this piece and...
Speaker: Really kind of, when I looked at it, it just felt Southern.
Speaker: And I think one thing that people might not quite understand if they're not super familiar with the Americana furniture market is that, and it might surprise people to hear that a piece of Southern furniture might be a lot more valuable than a piece of Northern furniture.
Speaker: And we should talk about why that is.
Speaker: But I'm just curious what kind of a gamble it was that you were taking there.
Speaker: I mean, in terms of the value, if it had turned out to be Pennsylvania instead of Virginia, are we talking, you know, half the price or two thirds the price or less or more?
Speaker: What are we talking about there?
Speaker: Well, the thing is, if this was a Pennsylvania chest,
Speaker: it would have been something very common.
Speaker: It wouldn't have been, well, not very common.
Speaker: It would have been something nice.
Speaker: It would have been something, it would be great to have at an early period with great finish and great brass.
Speaker: Those features you will never take away from this piece.
Speaker: And that would go from any location in the United States.
Speaker: In Virginia,
Speaker: This chest, I would call it in the plain and simple style.
Speaker: There's not a lot of bells and whistles.
Speaker: It's a very straightforward chest, but they focused on the use of the beautiful wood.
Speaker: They had nice brasses, and it was just an elegant piece.
Speaker: I cut my teeth studying Southern furniture.
Speaker: Besides spending time at Mesda and Colonial Williamsburg, which...
Speaker: For me, it's like going to a little piece of heaven just to study this stuff.
Speaker: But there's also, you know, I remember being a child with my father collecting and us being in a car together and going to all these old historic homes or going to these antique shops and meeting the dealers.
Speaker: And it was a real passion because not only was it a reflection of my kind of youth, but it ended up instilling with me
Speaker: a sense of these pieces kind of reflect areas that are important to me.
Speaker: You know, one thing I ask people whenever they come into the shop is, hey, where are you from?
Speaker: Well, did you know this piece can reflect to the areas that you grew up in?
Speaker: And it's really neat when you can even identify things down to the smallest town.
Speaker: You know, I have a high boy in the shop right now that was made in Wethersfield and
Speaker: I had somebody come in the other day, Wethersfield, Connecticut, and we literally just talked about Wethersfield.
Speaker: And he was so happy that this piece, which is so unique in style to that region, was a reflection of kind of his past and his upbringing.
Speaker: Wow, that's amazing.
Speaker: Wait, so, okay, so you decided you were going to take the gamble on this piece.
Speaker: You had a strong hunch about it.
Speaker: You bought it at this auction.
Speaker: You eventually, you got it back to your shop in Virginia and you got to take a look at it in person.
Speaker: And what was that like?
Speaker: I mean, what did you see?
Speaker: Well, I'll tell you, I was just thrilled.
Speaker: I mean, I didn't have any questions once I got my hands on it.
Speaker: And the finish was better in person.
Speaker: feel of the chest, the presence, it just was so mind-blowing.
Speaker: And the unusual features of like the feet construction and just everything.
Speaker: And the wood was just so stunning in the piece that it really just, it struck me.
Speaker: And I can tell you this, I call myself an experienced dealer now.
Speaker: But I also, any piece of furniture I get, I always like to get a second set of eyes on.
Speaker: And in this case, I mentioned earlier that my mentor is Sumter Pretty, who, you know, for...
Speaker: I'll call him the godfather of Southern furniture because he really kind of pushed the Southern furniture market forward and getting to share the piece with him and experience.
Speaker: I can remember this so clearly.
Speaker: It was the middle of COVID.
Speaker: We had the piece in the back of my truck.
Speaker: It was 20 degrees outside and we were flipping it over, looking at it.
Speaker: And it was so much fun just to experience the joy of,
Speaker: of things that are tied to him with this piece and where we could talk about things.
Speaker: And he felt strongly that it was attributed to Surrey County, which is a great little county down in southeastern Virginia, not far from Williamsburg, but the most iconic place there is Bacon's Castle.
Speaker: But, you know, it was an incredibly important little
Speaker: community in the 18th and really 17th century in America.
Speaker: So again, I get another tie to something that's even more fascinating to me.
Speaker: And it just...
Speaker: screened that southeastern Virginia, early Virginia colonial stuff that I, you know, we all say, what would you love to collect and keep?
Speaker: For me, it's southeastern Virginia material.
Speaker: It's just because it is iconically Virginia.
Speaker: It is so early and reflects kind of our early history.
Speaker: And to think about the Carters and the Lees and you go through the names of the different families that all all came through that area.
Speaker: You know, was there a chance that Thomas Jefferson, when he was at William and Mary, might have seen this piece?
Speaker: You know, I always go down those rabbit holes and things like that.
Speaker: But yeah.
Speaker: Man, I love your enthusiasm and it's really a contagious kind of excitement.
Speaker: And actually, I hate to say it, I'm about to give our listeners a big disappointment and tell them that, unfortunately for them, you've sold this piece.
Speaker: But I do, I want to hear a little bit about that and about, you know, where it went to and, you know, the person who bought it, why did they buy it and what are they using it for?
Speaker: Well, uh, let me set the room for you.
Speaker: Um, it was a great kind of cold and wintry day.
Speaker: And, uh, I took it down to a really good client who loved great Virginia furniture.
Speaker: And the neat thing is he is a young person.
Speaker: He's a young guy.
Speaker: He's maybe a year or two older than me.
Speaker: And, uh,
Speaker: It's really a baby.
Speaker: Yeah, a baby in terms of the antique world.
Speaker: But it was a situation where, you know, the minute he saw it, his eyes lit up and he knew he had to have it.
Speaker: And, you know, I always say that antiques are like, people always were like, you know, hey, isn't it hard for you to sell these things?
Speaker: And
Speaker: The truth is it's not because I had my time with it.
Speaker: And it brings me so much joy to bring it to somebody who's going to love it.
Speaker: And when it's in their home or when it's in their office or wherever they put it, whenever I see it, it's like going back to see an old friend again.
Speaker: And these pieces aren't just...
Speaker: Objects.
Speaker: There's so much more, you know, the best stories always come from, you know, the pursuit and the find.
Speaker: And then when you get to see them again and when you get to reconnect with your clients again, it is so much.
Speaker: It is just pure joy getting to see an old friend again.
Speaker: And, you know,
Speaker: one thing that's great about working with dealers is, well, we try to be nice guys and we try to, to, you know, share our passion with everybody who'll listen.
Speaker: And, you know, the neat thing about this is it ended up with a great friend.
Speaker: And, um, so is it a loss for me?
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: I would dream of keeping this in my house, but, um,
Speaker: Is it something that I regret selling?
Speaker: No.
Speaker: Is it something that I love that it ended up where it is?
Speaker: Yes.
Speaker: And it makes, you know, sometimes the, the coming back is the sweetest part of any relationship.
Speaker: And that's, that's the truth.
Speaker: We build relationships with all of our pieces.
Speaker: We, you know, touch every inch of them.
Speaker: We, we examine them so closely and you,
Speaker: I always tell anybody who's collecting, one of the best things you can do is when you actually sit back and look at a piece, if it doesn't make you smile, don't get it.
Speaker: And I know where this piece is set up, where it's at.
Speaker: It's probably seen very regularly.
Speaker: And I promise you, it brings a smile to his face every time he walks past it.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: So for people who are listening right now and who are looking at their
Speaker: chest in their sideboard in their living room and they're thinking, gosh, this is actually pretty cool stuff.
Speaker: Maybe I need to pay a little more attention to it.
Speaker: Maybe I should think a little about what Taylor's been saying and see if there are pieces that, you know, I could really fall in love with.
Speaker: I want to help them out a little.
Speaker: and give them, and maybe help me out a little, give us some pointers on what we should be looking at.
Speaker: And I think the first question that a lot of people have when they look at a piece of furniture is, well, is this thing really old?
Speaker: Is this actually an antique?
Speaker: Is it a reproduction?
Speaker: What's going on with it?
Speaker: What are some of the first things I should look at?
Speaker: You know, it's always...
Speaker: tough to say exactly, Hey, this is what you should look at.
Speaker: But the thing that I would encourage everybody to do is either get online or get, buy some great books and just flip through them.
Speaker: And you'll see little tendencies that, that are in style cues that they are reproduced, but they never have the same feel.
Speaker: And when I,
Speaker: take people to look at an antique for the first time.
Speaker: I say, take a good look at it.
Speaker: Okay, it's going to, it should hit you somewhere.
Speaker: And if they like it, I say, okay, let's move forward.
Speaker: Come up, let's feel the piece.
Speaker: Rub your hand against the grain.
Speaker: The board shouldn't be mirror finish lick.
Speaker: It should be, had this ever so slight wave to it from the hand planing.
Speaker: Let's look at the, let's pull a drawer out.
Speaker: Well, let's examine it.
Speaker: Let's look at the dovetails.
Speaker: Let's look and see if there's other holes where the brass is where that's a great way to tell if the brass is replaced.
Speaker: You know, there should be flaws there.
Speaker: The granted, most of these things are 300 years old and let's, there should be scratches.
Speaker: They should have life to them.
Speaker: And then I would say,
Speaker: you know, the wood moves a little bit.
Speaker: A drawer shouldn't just sit absolutely perfect.
Speaker: It might have a little wear to it.
Speaker: Let's see where the drawer has been running in and out of the piece for years.
Speaker: And let's look at the bottom of the feet.
Speaker: Let's make sure that you can tell that they've been scooted around or they've been, they're kind of rough on the bottom.
Speaker: And that's my favorite one.
Speaker: Cause I feel like my furniture at home, I'm constantly scuffing up with my feet.
Speaker: So if I see that wear pattern on the bottom, I think, Oh yeah, somebody else does did that too.
Speaker: Oh yeah.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: I think one of the biggest faults with, uh, with antiques nowadays is too many people think of their grandmother's house and Oh, you can't touch this.
Speaker: You can't do that.
Speaker: Um, Ben, I know you'll get his kick out of this, but, uh, after I sold this chest, I, uh,
Speaker: I had a decanter of bourbon sitting on top of it.
Speaker: I poured myself a nice glass to celebrate.
Speaker: So, you know, they're meant to be used.
Speaker: And, you know, throw your clothes in them.
Speaker: Throw whatever you like in them.
Speaker: They've survived this long and they aren't going to get hurt.
Speaker: And it's not like a piece of Ikea furniture where when it breaks, oh, Lord forbid, it's done forever.
Speaker: No, no.
Speaker: these things all can be repaired.
Speaker: Now, don't go around breaking your antiques, but definitely use them.
Speaker: Have fun with them.
Speaker: They aren't objects that are supposed to be just put away and looked at forever.
Speaker: There's things that are supposed to be loved.
Speaker: I take great pleasure.
Speaker: Now, granted, I'm a dork.
Speaker: Every
Speaker: you know five years i go through my house and wax all my different pieces and it's it's kind of like reintroducing myself to the piece and understanding oh look at how this grain swirls here look at how that brass has just an ever so different shine than the other one let's look at the build up around the edges and and
Speaker: Then the next time I walk through my house, I sit there and I have joy looking at the piece.
Speaker: See, you should really pay some more attention to silver, Taylor, because your silver you get to polish a whole lot more than once every five years.
Speaker: Hey, Ben, I got to tell you this.
Speaker: If I ever have a silver question, you know you're my first call.
Speaker: I hope so.
Speaker: I hope so.
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Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: I want to just ask about a couple of details because you mentioned dovetails and that's a big thing in early furniture.
Speaker: What if I see nails and screws?
Speaker: What should I think about that?
Speaker: I guess it's important to say where's the nails and screws and what type of nails and screws they are.
Speaker: But holding a drawer together, especially in
Speaker: very informal furniture because in some more country pieces, the further South you go, they, they did use nails, but you should always look for a nice crisp dovetail.
Speaker: And the exciting thing for me about this piece, again, going down the rabbit hole a little bit, the way the dovetails were cut was in a very English manner, which means they were very sharp and precise with no excess carving anywhere.
Speaker: It was just really tightly put together.
Speaker: And so it was probably somebody who was recently off the boat, you know, who hadn't realized, well, I can get away with a little bit more.
Speaker: I don't need to be doing my exact thing that I did back there.
Speaker: Interesting.
Speaker: What about identifying wood?
Speaker: Is that something I should think about?
Speaker: Always think about identifying wood.
Speaker: You know, in America, kind of the three big woods that you see are
Speaker: In the South, it's a lot of yellow pine and poplar.
Speaker: In the Mid-Atlantic, it's a lot of poplar.
Speaker: And then you see some yellow pine.
Speaker: And all these places, you might see a little cedar.
Speaker: And then New England, you see a lot of white pine.
Speaker: And these all are kind of cues of where these pieces were made.
Speaker: And, you know, you'll see some unusual wood sometimes like chestnut or gum that might point to a different area.
Speaker: And let's face it, a lot of these pieces were in the very same style as English pieces.
Speaker: So we have to know the differences between, you know, American pine and European pine.
Speaker: And it can be a challenge.
Speaker: And that's why I always encourage people to
Speaker: Whether you're at a show, a shop, or wherever you go, the biggest thing is dealers, we love to talk.
Speaker: We could talk all day.
Speaker: That's why I'm doing a podcast.
Speaker: I love to talk.
Speaker: But they are always more thrilled than anything to explain things to you.
Speaker: they want to show you why they invested in this piece, why they think it's special.
Speaker: And more than anything, why they think that it represents something more.
Speaker: It's not just a chest.
Speaker: It's a Virginia chest from the mid-18th century that is so unusual.
Speaker: You won't see another one.
Speaker: It's one of those situations.
Speaker: And when you hear, I think, a dealer's passion come out,
Speaker: And when you hear their enthusiasm, it's addictive.
Speaker: I've got one more question before I let you go.
Speaker: If you're willing, I'd love to hear about one of the mistakes that you made, maybe during COVID or maybe another time.
Speaker: Well, the important thing that I tell all collectors is
Speaker: is everybody makes mistakes.
Speaker: I make mistakes.
Speaker: Auction houses make mistakes.
Speaker: And even the experts make mistakes.
Speaker: And one thing that I will say is being a dealer, I will always stand behind everything that I sell.
Speaker: And if I make mistakes, I'm willing to
Speaker: repay you know to make up for it and make you whole and you know because i want to remain friends with you and you know i can tell you i made multiple mistakes during covid and bought some of the most expensive furniture i ever bought that was complete forgeries and um
Speaker: But the main thing I would tell you is you can't be afraid of mistakes, but you can't move past your mistakes.
Speaker: The piece I just mentioned is sitting in my house right now, and I got to tell you, I've changed more diapers on it, and I really don't care how much damage that thing gets.
Speaker: And the big thing is, and that's the important of always looking for dealers that truly stand behind their merchandise.
Speaker: And we have to in our industry.
Speaker: And in years past, this wasn't the most ethical industry.
Speaker: But now we have nothing but our ethics and nothing but our honor to stand behind.
Speaker: So I have even found out in the past about things that
Speaker: you know, I learned, let's say I sold a piece as North Carolina and then I'm researching one day and find, oh, this unusual carving actually was probably more Virginia.
Speaker: I'll call my client up and say, hey, look at what I found.
Speaker: Here's a little bit more information.
Speaker: I was wrong about this, but boy, isn't this neat?
Speaker: And, you know,
Speaker: they don't feel deceived.
Speaker: It's the fact is, this is ongoing education.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: You know, we weren't there when the pieces were made, but we were there to, to tell you how we feel about the piece and making sure that no matter what happens, we stand behind this.
Speaker: And please anybody who's out there,
Speaker: Shoot a dealer an email.
Speaker: Give them a call.
Speaker: Come over.
Speaker: The most important thing is go see the piece.
Speaker: Things can look good in photographs.
Speaker: I can have a six-pack in photographs, and boy, would I love that.
Speaker: But when you see me in person, you realize that is far from the truth.
Speaker: And I just think that the most important thing is that as a community and people who are interested in any decorative art or any piece of anything, you know, mid-century furniture, I love mid-century stuff.
Speaker: But, you know, it hits you when you see it in place.
Speaker: You see how it relates to other things.
Speaker: And you see how it actually connects you to the past.
Speaker: So, yeah.
Speaker: you know, I went through a Mad Men phase and God, I love that mid-century stuff.
Speaker: And you know what?
Speaker: I love to set it next to a piece of 17th or 18th century furniture because, you know, in some weird way it works.
Speaker: And I've always said this style really is transcending when it comes to these pieces, you know, and a great piece that's 350 years old versus a piece that's 50 years old.
Speaker: If it, if it's made well,
Speaker: and has beautiful lines, it is a beautiful piece.
Speaker: So why segregate yourself?
Speaker: And take your time to learn a little bit about everything.
Speaker: Go to auction houses, flip pieces over, you know, let them explain repairs, because they can't.
Speaker: And let them explain everything.
Speaker: And like I said, don't be afraid to make a mistake.
Speaker: It might happen.
Speaker: But the good thing is with mistakes,
Speaker: You know, it's not like going out and buying a car that's automatically going to lose all its value.
Speaker: These will always have value.
Speaker: You know, you might not do that in a Ferrari, but you're definitely you're going to make mistakes.
Speaker: And but if anybody got up there and was watching a baseball game and every hit was a home run, would it be any fun?
Speaker: Well, Taylor, thanks so much for joining me and for coming back on Curious Objects.
Speaker: It's been a lot of fun to talk to you.
Speaker: I've had the best time, Ben, and we hope to get you back down south to Virginia.
Speaker: You have been away from your Tennessee roots too long, my friend.
Speaker: I'll see you down there sometime soon.
Speaker: Today's episode was edited and produced by Sammy Delati with social media and web support by Sarah Bellotta.
Speaker: Sierra Holt is our digital media and editorial associate.
Speaker: Our music is by Trap Rabbit, and I'm Ben Miller.
Speaker: When you walk into a Burlington, you're walking into amazing prices and great gifts.
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