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Taylor Thistlethwaite Gets Excited About "Brown Furniture"
57 Plays1 year ago
Taylor Thistlethwaite, proprietor of Thistlethwaite Americana in Middleburg, Virginia, returns to the pod to defend the merits of “brown furniture.” Whether it’s earthy, richly figured black walnut or the sometimes-overlooked black cherry, it’s important not to “think of wood as just something brown,” Taylor says. “There’s so much life in it. And it matures like fine wine.” Case in point: Taylor’s three-hundred-year-old chest-of-drawers with chunky hardware and unusual feet that is as beautiful as it is rare.
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Transcript
Introduction to Curious Objects
00:00:10
Speaker
Hello and welcome to Curious Objects, brought to you by the magazine Antiques, I'm Ben Miller.
00:00:15
Speaker
This is the podcast about art, decorative arts and antiques, the stories behind them, and what they can reveal to us about ourselves and the people who came before us.
00:00:24
Speaker
Now, if I say the word antique, I'm pretty sure I know the mental image that pops up for you.
00:00:29
Speaker
Let's see, is it a dark brown wooden chest of drawers?
00:00:33
Speaker
Yeah, I think for so many of us, that is kind of the most basic stereotype of an antique.
The Brown Furniture Stereotype and Its Historical Role
00:00:39
Speaker
It's what people in the business sometimes call brown furniture, which by the way, is a term I hate because it's so reductive and dismissive.
00:00:48
Speaker
But when people say brown furniture, what they're talking about is a lineage of hundreds of years of woodworking, carpentry, cabinet making, working with one of the most beautiful and versatile materials that the earth has blessed us with, wood.
00:01:01
Speaker
And crafting that wood into objects that are perfectly designed to live with.
Exploring an 18th-Century Virginia Chest
00:01:06
Speaker
So today I'm really excited to talk about an exquisite piece of furniture, which happens to be brown, but it's so much more than just a color.
00:01:15
Speaker
It's a very unusual chest of drawers from 18th century Virginia.
00:01:18
Speaker
And there's a lot to get into about what makes this piece so special.
Featuring Taylor Thistlethwaite on Americana Furniture
00:01:23
Speaker
And we're also gonna talk about some broader tips for how to look at antique furniture, how to tell whether it even is antique and how to think about what it might be worth.
00:01:32
Speaker
So I think you'll find a lot of useful advice.
00:01:35
Speaker
And if that's not enough to get you excited, fortunately, my guest today is a fascinating guy and a good friend of mine.
00:01:42
Speaker
And if there's anyone who can get you excited about an 18th century Virginia chest, it's Taylor Thistlethwaite.
00:01:49
Speaker
Taylor is the creator of Thistlethwaite Americana in Middleburg, Virginia, where he buys and sells some of the great pieces of early American furniture and decorative arts.
00:01:58
Speaker
And if he sounds familiar, it might be because you heard him on Curious Objects.
00:02:03
Speaker
He played a central role in the rediscovery of the portrait of Belizear and the Frayed Children that we covered back in 2022.
Quick-fire Questions with Taylor (Q&A)
00:02:09
Speaker
Taylor, it's great to have you back on Curious Objects.
00:02:13
Speaker
Thanks, Ben.
00:02:13
Speaker
I am thrilled to be here and happy to talk about some exciting brown furniture.
00:02:20
Speaker
Isn't it all exciting?
00:02:21
Speaker
Okay.
00:02:22
Speaker
Are you ready for some rapid fire questions?
00:02:24
Speaker
Let's go.
00:02:26
Speaker
What is the best wood?
00:02:27
Speaker
Oh,
00:02:30
Speaker
Well, it's hard to narrow
Caring for Antiques and Recommended Readings
00:02:32
Speaker
it down, but what I'd tell you is don't just think of wood as something brown.
00:02:37
Speaker
I mean, there's so much life in it.
00:02:40
Speaker
And it's funny, these pieces can be 300 to 400 years old and even older.
00:02:45
Speaker
And the wood is still, in a sense, alive because it's constantly moving and shifting with changes in temperature and humidity.
00:02:54
Speaker
So, honestly, wood is a lot like a fine wine.
00:02:57
Speaker
The older it gets, the better it looks.
00:03:01
Speaker
All right.
00:03:01
Speaker
Well, you evaded the question a little bit, but I'll let you get away with that one.
00:03:06
Speaker
What is... Well, it's too hard to just put a finger on it.
00:03:09
Speaker
I mean... Well, I never said these were going to be easy.
00:03:15
Speaker
Okay.
00:03:15
Speaker
What's a fitting punishment for someone who sets a sweaty, icy glass of water down on a beautiful antique table without a coaster?
00:03:23
Speaker
Um, you know, summary execution.
00:03:27
Speaker
Well, I, you know, it's hard for me to execute things when I have made the same mistake.
00:03:31
Speaker
But what I will say is make sure you have a hairdryer very handy and can get that dry as fast as possible.
00:03:39
Speaker
That's a good tip.
00:03:40
Speaker
Yeah, but the best thing I can say is don't do it, but these things are meant to be treated with respect.
00:03:50
Speaker
If you set a glass on it for a second or two and wipe it up quick, hey, that's okay.
00:03:56
Speaker
It's when you run into situations
Personal Stories and Professional Significance of Purchases
00:03:57
Speaker
that you leave stuff setting on it for hours and you get the big white rings, and that one deserves a big deal.
00:04:04
Speaker
thick uh kicking the the rear okay uh what's what is one book that an amateur should read to start to understand old furniture oh god uh i can't limit it to one but i i will give you three uh books that i uh i really recommend to everybody here we go again
00:04:27
Speaker
And they're kind of basic.
00:04:30
Speaker
One is The Finer Points of Furniture by Albert Sack.
00:04:34
Speaker
It's the perfect book to kind of learn form and teach us about the most basic good, better, best of the different forms of furniture.
00:04:44
Speaker
Now, the problem with that book, it is very New England and Philadelphia centric.
00:04:49
Speaker
So if you want to learn more about Southern furniture and
00:04:53
Speaker
how Southern pieces are built and just how a kind of good understanding of how these things are put together.
00:05:00
Speaker
Southern furniture by colonial Williamsburg is one of my absolute favorites.
00:05:06
Speaker
And actually I'm just going to give you those two, because I think there's, there's a few other sources that maybe we'll get into a little later that are great education sources for people.
00:05:17
Speaker
Sounds good.
00:05:18
Speaker
What is something that you've bought that your wife really hates?
00:05:24
Speaker
Um, well, I'm not trying to get you in trouble here, but
Selecting a Decorative Art to Represent Humanity
00:05:28
Speaker
you can be honest.
00:05:30
Speaker
Uh, I have bought a handful of ugly paintings that she is not a big fan of.
00:05:36
Speaker
And, uh, one of the things that I just can't seem to get rid of no matter what is a great little one drawer stand that looks like it has been through a hurricane and
00:05:48
Speaker
But it's been with me since I was 16.
00:05:52
Speaker
And, you know, no matter what happens, this thing's going to stick with me, even though it is got that ugly piece of furniture that is now relegated to a guest room.
00:06:04
Speaker
Okay, so the aliens have finally arrived.
00:06:08
Speaker
They've decided, of course, to wipe us out.
00:06:11
Speaker
But in their infinite mercy, they've agreed to preserve one work of decorative art to memorialize humanity for all time.
00:06:20
Speaker
What should we give them?
00:06:22
Speaker
Well, that is an interesting question because...
00:06:27
Speaker
It's not just one thing that I can easily pick out, but the thing that I think represents America kind of better than any singular form would be a fully carved Rococo Philadelphia high boy, because not only is this kind of a very distinctive American form,
00:06:50
Speaker
But the carving is spectacular.
00:06:53
Speaker
The wood is spectacular.
00:06:54
Speaker
The brass is spectacular.
00:06:56
Speaker
It is the pinnacle of American craftsmanship.
00:07:00
Speaker
And it just represents a piece that, in my mind, just could stand the test of time.
00:07:08
Speaker
And from ball and claw feet to wonderful rosettes and big flame finials, it just...
00:07:17
Speaker
For me, it's always a piece of furniture, but it's hard to say the Mona Lisa is not high on that list or something along those lines.
00:07:26
Speaker
Of course, great... God, you think about the sculpture of David, and it's so hard to limit to one piece, but for me, as an American, as a lover of all American furniture, that high-style Philadelphia rococo carved...
00:07:45
Speaker
Highboy would just be, you know, a tough one
Antique Chest Discovery and Initial Evaluation
00:07:49
Speaker
to pass up.
00:07:49
Speaker
All right.
00:07:50
Speaker
Well, I'll drink a glass of bourbon to that.
00:07:57
Speaker
We'll be right back with Taylor Thistlefwaite to talk about antique furniture and this very unusual chest of drawers.
00:08:04
Speaker
If you'd like to see pictures of it, you can go to themagazineantiques.com slash podcast, which I highly recommend.
00:08:11
Speaker
You can also, if you'd like, support Curious Objects by leaving us a review on Apple Podcasts.
00:08:16
Speaker
Someone recently wrote there, Pure delight.
00:08:19
Speaker
I discovered Curious Objects just last month and have been devouring it going through all the episodes, often twice.
00:08:25
Speaker
Wow.
00:08:25
Speaker
Thank you so much for that.
00:08:27
Speaker
Honestly, I'm so thrilled to hear that you're enjoying it.
00:08:31
Speaker
Anyone else who's listening and enjoying it, I'd love to hear from you too.
00:08:34
Speaker
These Apple podcast reviews really help us out.
00:08:37
Speaker
Or you can always get in touch with me directly via email at curiousobjectspodcast at gmail.com or on Instagram at Objective Interest.
00:08:47
Speaker
I'd love to hear about your curious objects and I'd love to hear your ideas for future episodes.
00:08:57
Speaker
Okay, let's get back to Taylor Thistlethwaite.
00:09:01
Speaker
Taylor, I want to start with this incredible chest, and then we can talk about some general tips for listeners about looking at furniture.
00:09:09
Speaker
Maybe they can learn something from how you approached this particular piece.
00:09:13
Speaker
And so I want to ask how you originally came across it.
00:09:16
Speaker
And if you can remember, what was your very first impression of it?
00:09:22
Speaker
Well, I found this piece at the height of COVID.
00:09:27
Speaker
And the challenge for dealers during COVID was we actually were a very tactile group.
00:09:37
Speaker
We love to go see pieces, examine them in person, and just feel them.
00:09:43
Speaker
Because you can really understand so much more about a piece from actually physically being with it than others.
00:09:50
Speaker
not being there, but, uh, this piece was actually up in new England and it was in the middle of nowhere and there was no chance I could ever go to see it in the middle of COVID.
Determining the Chest's Southern Origins
00:10:02
Speaker
And when I first saw it, it was, you know, in a rural auction up in new England and they listed it as a Philadelphia chest.
00:10:12
Speaker
And I could see why they did say Philadelphia.
00:10:17
Speaker
Um,
00:10:18
Speaker
You know, the form kind of translates back and forth between Philadelphia.
00:10:23
Speaker
You know, the typical two over three chest of drawers is something that is very common up in Philadelphia.
00:10:29
Speaker
What does that mean, two over three?
00:10:31
Speaker
Oh, the drawer configuration.
00:10:33
Speaker
So you have two small drawers over three larger drawers.
00:10:36
Speaker
Okay, so the two drawers side by side and then three big drawers, one on top of the other, right?
00:10:42
Speaker
Correct.
00:10:42
Speaker
Correct.
00:10:44
Speaker
And so you see that in Philadelphia, but it sounds like you also see it in other places.
00:10:48
Speaker
Oh, you see it everywhere, but if you're looking at the piece, you'll notice it kind of has this real boxy configuration.
00:10:57
Speaker
And it just felt too kind of unusual for...
00:11:02
Speaker
Philadelphia.
00:11:03
Speaker
You'd expect to see a molding underneath the top, a little bit just different build, should I say.
00:11:11
Speaker
So that was kind of my first clue.
00:11:13
Speaker
And then the second clue was the drawer sides and drawer bottoms were all yellow pine.
00:11:21
Speaker
And yellow pine is a wood that truly grows from
00:11:27
Speaker
Pennsylvania south, but the further south you go, the more prevalent it is as a secondary wood.
00:11:36
Speaker
And, um, you know, learning your woods is, is kind of the, the big technique and helping to identify locations where pieces were made.
Challenges and Value of Southern Antiques
00:11:47
Speaker
So, um, but the piece had everything that makes a
00:11:54
Speaker
a dealer's heart go pitter-patter.
00:11:57
Speaker
It was a small size.
00:12:01
Speaker
The rule of thumb is the smaller the chest, the higher the dollar.
00:12:04
Speaker
This one's 34 inches wide, which in a New England standpoint, that's not normal, but on the smaller side.
00:12:14
Speaker
In a Pennsylvania standpoint, that again is
00:12:17
Speaker
oh that's the the width we'd like you know if it could get smaller in the south we like big chest and don't see a lot of big chest being our little diminutives in scaled size chest being made in the south especially at this early of a period the second thing that just made my jaw drop was the finish
00:12:44
Speaker
This is, if I have to say, hey, everybody wants an old finish, what do we look for?
00:12:50
Speaker
This is the finish.
00:12:52
Speaker
And it has this great allure to it.
00:12:55
Speaker
And you'll notice there's, I always tell people to look for the highs and lows in a finish on a piece.
00:13:01
Speaker
So around the brasses, that's the hardest part to actually polish and wax.
00:13:08
Speaker
So it normally has either a residue or a buildup.
00:13:11
Speaker
especially around the brasses, because they would be using, back in the day, they used brick dust and all kinds of different things to actually
Unique Features of the Virginia Chest
00:13:19
Speaker
polish the brasses.
00:13:20
Speaker
And you could probably comment on what people used to polish stuff in the 18th century better than anybody.
00:13:25
Speaker
But, you know, so you get this contrast.
00:13:30
Speaker
And if you see the chest on the top edge, and as you gradually go down the chest,
00:13:39
Speaker
It goes from a darker, richer patina to a slightly lighter patina.
00:13:43
Speaker
And that just makes sense because that's the way the sun would hit it.
00:13:46
Speaker
You know, the sun wouldn't directly hit it straight on.
00:13:50
Speaker
It would hit it kind of going hit mainly focusing on the top and going down the front when it was sitting in somebody's home.
00:13:57
Speaker
And I'm sure plenty of us have been into a home and seen something where maybe the front of a chest looks great, but then the side is completely bleached out from the sun.
00:14:08
Speaker
So when the sun, I love the effects that the sun can do to a piece.
00:14:14
Speaker
So just because a piece is light in color does not mean that it isn't the original finish.
00:14:20
Speaker
More than likely, it means that that piece just had a lot more focus in the sun.
00:14:27
Speaker
Right.
00:14:27
Speaker
But hopefully it's not totally uneven and out of whack, like, you know, like a rug that's been sitting in the same orientation for 50 years.
00:14:36
Speaker
Oh, absolutely.
00:14:36
Speaker
You know, when you move the sofa, it's always a little darker
Taylor's Connection to Southern Antiques
00:14:39
Speaker
and things like that.
00:14:41
Speaker
But, you know, so...
00:14:43
Speaker
That really, really got me excited.
00:14:46
Speaker
And the Brasses, they're these nice kind of Chippendale, Queen Anne transitional Brasses where they're starting to get a little bit bigger outside of the Queen Anne pick period.
00:14:59
Speaker
And so they have more of a presence to them that is really, really appealing to me.
00:15:06
Speaker
And you can tell that they've been on this thing forever.
00:15:10
Speaker
And it just, it was remarkable.
00:15:13
Speaker
The shape of the foot was highly unusual to me.
00:15:16
Speaker
And, you know, back then we got on a FaceTime or Zoom to look at pieces with auctioneers who were most of the time more than gracious to help out with that.
00:15:29
Speaker
And I noticed that the front feet were made out of two hunks of wood, which there's people who did that.
00:15:36
Speaker
But that's kind of an unusual thing.
00:15:39
Speaker
Most of the time they would have a supporting block in the back and had the foot built around kind of a substructure.
00:15:47
Speaker
And then in the back on the feet, you know, normally the feet just kind of sit on the ground and support the case.
00:15:54
Speaker
There was a really unusual board that stretched all the way across the back of the chest.
00:16:00
Speaker
And it kind of was a indication the cabinetmaker who clearly knew what he was doing.
00:16:07
Speaker
was trying something new to him, trying something that was slightly different.
00:16:14
Speaker
And that also kind of helps point to an earlier date.
00:16:19
Speaker
So just to go back to a second too, so it's at the auction house in New England, and it has a lot of features that are familiar to you from Philadelphia furniture.
00:16:33
Speaker
You know, you mentioned some ways in which it had some features that are maybe more common or more particular to Southern pieces.
00:16:42
Speaker
But...
00:16:43
Speaker
It sounds like it probably wasn't a kind of light switch flipping to tell you that this was definitely a Southern piece or definitely a Virginia piece, right?
00:16:52
Speaker
I mean, no, you know, especially at the COVID time.
00:16:57
Speaker
Yeah.
00:16:57
Speaker
Yeah.
Selling the Chest to New Owners
00:16:58
Speaker
Because you're not looking at it in person.
00:17:00
Speaker
You're looking at it through photos and FaceTime.
00:17:03
Speaker
So how did that go?
00:17:06
Speaker
I mean, how did you come around to thinking that it was actually from Virginia and not from Philadelphia or someplace else?
00:17:13
Speaker
Well, the form would have been very peculiar for Pennsylvania, Philadelphia, influenced furniture.
00:17:19
Speaker
And the truth is, it was a gamble.
00:17:24
Speaker
It was a real kind of throw of the dice because I wanted to take a look at this piece and...
00:17:33
Speaker
Really kind of, when I looked at it, it just felt Southern.
00:17:39
Speaker
And I think one thing that people might not quite understand if they're not super familiar with the Americana furniture market is that, and it might surprise people to hear that a piece of Southern furniture might be a lot more valuable than a piece of Northern furniture.
00:17:56
Speaker
And we should talk about why that is.
00:17:58
Speaker
But I'm just curious what kind of a gamble it was that you were taking there.
00:18:02
Speaker
I mean, in terms of the value, if it had turned out to be Pennsylvania instead of Virginia, are we talking, you know, half the price or two thirds the price or less or more?
00:18:15
Speaker
What are we talking about there?
00:18:17
Speaker
Well, the thing is, if this was a Pennsylvania chest,
00:18:23
Speaker
it would have been something very common.
00:18:26
Speaker
It wouldn't have been, well, not very common.
00:18:28
Speaker
It would have been something nice.
00:18:30
Speaker
It would have been something, it would be great to have at an early period with great finish and great brass.
00:18:37
Speaker
Those features you will never take away from this piece.
00:18:40
Speaker
And that would go from any location in the United States.
Evaluating Antiques: Tips and Techniques
00:18:44
Speaker
In Virginia,
00:18:46
Speaker
This chest, I would call it in the plain and simple style.
00:18:50
Speaker
There's not a lot of bells and whistles.
00:18:52
Speaker
It's a very straightforward chest, but they focused on the use of the beautiful wood.
00:18:58
Speaker
They had nice brasses, and it was just an elegant piece.
00:19:05
Speaker
I cut my teeth studying Southern furniture.
00:19:10
Speaker
Besides spending time at Mesda and Colonial Williamsburg, which...
00:19:15
Speaker
For me, it's like going to a little piece of heaven just to study this stuff.
00:19:21
Speaker
But there's also, you know, I remember being a child with my father collecting and us being in a car together and going to all these old historic homes or going to these antique shops and meeting the dealers.
00:19:35
Speaker
And it was a real passion because not only was it a reflection of my kind of youth, but it ended up instilling with me
00:19:48
Speaker
a sense of these pieces kind of reflect areas that are important to me.
00:19:53
Speaker
You know, one thing I ask people whenever they come into the shop is, hey, where are you from?
00:19:58
Speaker
Well, did you know this piece can reflect to the areas that you grew up in?
00:20:04
Speaker
And it's really neat when you can even identify things down to the smallest town.
00:20:09
Speaker
You know, I have a high boy in the shop right now that was made in Wethersfield and
00:20:17
Speaker
I had somebody come in the other day, Wethersfield, Connecticut, and we literally just talked about Wethersfield.
00:20:23
Speaker
And he was so happy that this piece, which is so unique in style to that region, was a reflection of kind of his past and his upbringing.
00:20:33
Speaker
Wow, that's amazing.
00:20:34
Speaker
Wait, so, okay, so you decided you were going to take the gamble on this piece.
00:20:39
Speaker
You had a strong hunch about it.
00:20:41
Speaker
You bought it at this auction.
00:20:43
Speaker
You eventually, you got it back to your shop in Virginia and you got to take a look at it in person.
00:20:50
Speaker
And what was that like?
00:20:52
Speaker
I mean, what did
Learning from Mistakes in Antique Dealings
00:20:53
Speaker
you see?
00:20:54
Speaker
Well, I'll tell you, I was just thrilled.
00:20:59
Speaker
I mean, I didn't have any questions once I got my hands on it.
00:21:02
Speaker
And the finish was better in person.
00:21:09
Speaker
feel of the chest, the presence, it just was so mind-blowing.
00:21:15
Speaker
And the unusual features of like the feet construction and just everything.
00:21:20
Speaker
And the wood was just so stunning in the piece that it really just, it struck me.
00:21:27
Speaker
And I can tell you this, I call myself an experienced dealer now.
00:21:34
Speaker
But I also, any piece of furniture I get, I always like to get a second set of eyes on.
00:21:40
Speaker
And in this case, I mentioned earlier that my mentor is Sumter Pretty, who, you know, for...
00:21:49
Speaker
I'll call him the godfather of Southern furniture because he really kind of pushed the Southern furniture market forward and getting to share the piece with him and experience.
00:22:01
Speaker
I can remember this so clearly.
00:22:04
Speaker
It was the middle of COVID.
00:22:05
Speaker
We had the piece in the back of my truck.
00:22:08
Speaker
It was 20 degrees outside and we were flipping it over, looking at it.
00:22:13
Speaker
And it was so much fun just to experience the joy of,
00:22:19
Speaker
of things that are tied to him with this piece and where we could talk about things.
Consulting Dealers and Understanding Antique Value
00:22:25
Speaker
And he felt strongly that it was attributed to Surrey County, which is a great little county down in southeastern Virginia, not far from Williamsburg, but the most iconic place there is Bacon's Castle.
00:22:40
Speaker
But, you know, it was an incredibly important little
00:22:45
Speaker
community in the 18th and really 17th century in America.
00:22:50
Speaker
So again, I get another tie to something that's even more fascinating to me.
00:22:56
Speaker
And it just...
00:22:57
Speaker
screened that southeastern Virginia, early Virginia colonial stuff that I, you know, we all say, what would you love to collect and keep?
00:23:07
Speaker
For me, it's southeastern Virginia material.
00:23:10
Speaker
It's just because it is iconically Virginia.
00:23:14
Speaker
It is so early and reflects kind of our early history.
00:23:20
Speaker
And to think about the Carters and the Lees and you go through the names of the different families that all all came through that area.
00:23:29
Speaker
You know, was there a chance that Thomas Jefferson, when he was at William and Mary, might have seen this piece?
00:23:34
Speaker
You know, I always go down those rabbit holes and things like that.
00:23:39
Speaker
But yeah.
00:23:40
Speaker
Man, I love your enthusiasm and it's really a contagious kind of excitement.
00:23:46
Speaker
And actually, I hate to say it, I'm about to give our listeners a big disappointment and tell them that, unfortunately for them, you've sold this piece.
Reflections on Antiques as Living History
00:23:58
Speaker
But I do, I want to hear a little bit about that and about, you know, where it went to and, you know, the person who bought it, why did they buy it and what are they using it for?
00:24:10
Speaker
Well, uh, let me set the room for you.
00:24:13
Speaker
Um, it was a great kind of cold and wintry day.
00:24:21
Speaker
And, uh, I took it down to a really good client who loved great Virginia furniture.
00:24:31
Speaker
And the neat thing is he is a young person.
00:24:34
Speaker
He's a young guy.
00:24:36
Speaker
He's maybe a year or two older than me.
00:24:39
Speaker
And, uh,
00:24:41
Speaker
It's really a baby.
00:24:43
Speaker
Yeah, a baby in terms of the antique world.
00:24:47
Speaker
But it was a situation where, you know, the minute he saw it, his eyes lit up and he knew he had to have it.
00:24:55
Speaker
And, you know, I always say that antiques are like, people always were like, you know, hey, isn't it hard for you to sell these things?
00:25:05
Speaker
And
00:25:06
Speaker
The truth is it's not because I had my time with it.
00:25:12
Speaker
And it brings me so much joy to bring it to somebody who's going to love it.
00:25:18
Speaker
And when it's in their home or when it's in their office or wherever they put it, whenever I see it, it's like going back to see an old friend again.
00:25:28
Speaker
And these pieces aren't just...
00:25:32
Speaker
Objects.
00:25:32
Speaker
There's so much more, you know, the best stories always come from, you know, the pursuit and the find.
00:25:41
Speaker
And then when you get to see them again and when you get to reconnect with your clients again, it is so much.
00:25:49
Speaker
It is just pure joy getting to see an old friend again.
00:25:54
Speaker
And, you know,
00:25:55
Speaker
one thing that's great about working with dealers is, well, we try to be nice guys and we try to, to, you know, share our passion with everybody who'll listen.
00:26:07
Speaker
And, you know, the neat thing about this is it ended up with a great friend.
00:26:13
Speaker
And, um, so is it a loss for me?
00:26:18
Speaker
Yeah.
00:26:19
Speaker
I would dream of keeping this in my house, but, um,
00:26:24
Speaker
Is it something that I regret selling?
00:26:27
Speaker
No.
00:26:28
Speaker
Is it something that I love that it ended up where it is?
00:26:32
Speaker
Yes.
00:26:33
Speaker
And it makes, you know, sometimes the, the coming back is the sweetest part of any relationship.
00:26:41
Speaker
And that's, that's the truth.
00:26:43
Speaker
We build relationships with all of our pieces.
00:26:46
Speaker
We, you know, touch every inch of them.
00:26:48
Speaker
We, we examine them so closely and you,
00:26:54
Speaker
I always tell anybody who's collecting, one of the best things you can do is when you actually sit back and look at a piece, if it doesn't make you smile, don't get it.
00:27:07
Speaker
And I know where this piece is set up, where it's at.
00:27:11
Speaker
It's probably seen very regularly.
00:27:13
Speaker
And I promise you, it brings a smile to his face every time he walks past it.
00:27:17
Speaker
Okay.
00:27:17
Speaker
So for people who are listening right now and who are looking at their
00:27:21
Speaker
chest in their sideboard in their living room and they're thinking, gosh, this is actually pretty cool stuff.
00:27:29
Speaker
Maybe I need to pay a little more attention to it.
00:27:32
Speaker
Maybe I should think a little about what Taylor's been saying and see if there are pieces that, you know, I could really fall in love with.
00:27:41
Speaker
I want to help them out a little.
00:27:44
Speaker
and give them, and maybe help me out a little, give us some pointers on what we should be looking at.
00:27:50
Speaker
And I think the first question that a lot of people have when they look at a piece of furniture is, well, is this thing really old?
00:27:56
Speaker
Is this actually an antique?
00:27:58
Speaker
Is it a reproduction?
00:28:00
Speaker
What's going on with it?
00:28:01
Speaker
What are some of the first things I should look at?
00:28:06
Speaker
You know, it's always...
00:28:10
Speaker
tough to say exactly, Hey, this is what you should look at.
00:28:13
Speaker
But the thing that I would encourage everybody to do is either get online or get, buy some great books and just flip through them.
00:28:23
Speaker
And you'll see little tendencies that, that are in style cues that they are reproduced, but they never have the same feel.
00:28:34
Speaker
And when I,
00:28:38
Speaker
take people to look at an antique for the first time.
00:28:42
Speaker
I say, take a good look at it.
00:28:44
Speaker
Okay, it's going to, it should hit you somewhere.
00:28:48
Speaker
And if they like it, I say, okay, let's move forward.
00:28:52
Speaker
Come up, let's feel the piece.
00:28:55
Speaker
Rub your hand against the grain.
00:28:58
Speaker
The board shouldn't be mirror finish lick.
00:29:01
Speaker
It should be, had this ever so slight wave to it from the hand planing.
00:29:07
Speaker
Let's look at the, let's pull a drawer out.
00:29:10
Speaker
Well, let's examine it.
00:29:12
Speaker
Let's look at the dovetails.
00:29:14
Speaker
Let's look and see if there's other holes where the brass is where that's a great way to tell if the brass is replaced.
00:29:20
Speaker
You know, there should be flaws there.
00:29:23
Speaker
The granted, most of these things are 300 years old and let's, there should be scratches.
00:29:30
Speaker
They should have life to them.
00:29:33
Speaker
And then I would say,
00:29:35
Speaker
you know, the wood moves a little bit.
00:29:37
Speaker
A drawer shouldn't just sit absolutely perfect.
00:29:40
Speaker
It might have a little wear to it.
00:29:43
Speaker
Let's see where the drawer has been running in and out of the piece for years.
00:29:47
Speaker
And let's look at the bottom of the feet.
00:29:49
Speaker
Let's make sure that you can tell that they've been scooted around or they've been, they're kind of rough on the bottom.
00:29:56
Speaker
And that's my favorite one.
00:29:58
Speaker
Cause I feel like my furniture at home, I'm constantly scuffing up with my feet.
00:30:03
Speaker
So if I see that wear pattern on the bottom, I think, Oh yeah, somebody else does did that too.
00:30:08
Speaker
Oh yeah.
00:30:08
Speaker
Yeah.
00:30:10
Speaker
I think one of the biggest faults with, uh, with antiques nowadays is too many people think of their grandmother's house and Oh, you can't touch this.
00:30:18
Speaker
You can't do that.
00:30:19
Speaker
Um, Ben, I know you'll get his kick out of this, but, uh, after I sold this chest, I, uh,
00:30:27
Speaker
I had a decanter of bourbon sitting on top of it.
00:30:30
Speaker
I poured myself a nice glass to celebrate.
00:30:33
Speaker
So, you know, they're meant to be used.
00:30:36
Speaker
And, you know, throw your clothes in them.
00:30:38
Speaker
Throw whatever you like in them.
00:30:41
Speaker
They've survived this long and they aren't going to get hurt.
00:30:45
Speaker
And it's not like a piece of Ikea furniture where when it breaks, oh, Lord forbid, it's done forever.
00:30:50
Speaker
No, no.
00:30:52
Speaker
these things all can be repaired.
00:30:53
Speaker
Now, don't go around breaking your antiques, but definitely use them.
00:31:00
Speaker
Have fun with them.
00:31:02
Speaker
They aren't objects that are supposed to be just put away and looked at forever.
00:31:08
Speaker
There's things that are supposed to be loved.
00:31:11
Speaker
I take great pleasure.
00:31:12
Speaker
Now, granted, I'm a dork.
00:31:14
Speaker
Every
00:31:15
Speaker
you know five years i go through my house and wax all my different pieces and it's it's kind of like reintroducing myself to the piece and understanding oh look at how this grain swirls here look at how that brass has just an ever so different shine than the other one let's look at the build up around the edges and and
00:31:37
Speaker
Then the next time I walk through my house, I sit there and I have joy looking at the piece.
00:31:42
Speaker
See, you should really pay some more attention to silver, Taylor, because your silver you get to polish a whole lot more than once every five years.
00:31:50
Speaker
Hey, Ben, I got to tell you this.
00:31:53
Speaker
If I ever have a silver question, you know you're my first call.
00:31:56
Speaker
I hope so.
00:31:57
Speaker
I hope so.
00:32:02
Speaker
As a raider scavenging a derelict world, you settle into an underground settlement.
00:32:08
Speaker
But now you must return to the surface where ARK machines roam.
00:32:16
Speaker
If you're brave enough, who knows what you might find?
00:32:19
Speaker
ARK Raiders, a multiplayer extraction adventure video game.
00:32:23
Speaker
Buy now for PlayStation 5, Xbox Series X and S, and PC.
00:32:27
Speaker
Rated T for Teen.
00:32:30
Speaker
Okay.
00:32:30
Speaker
I want to just ask about a couple of details because you mentioned dovetails and that's a big thing in early furniture.
00:32:37
Speaker
What if I see nails and screws?
00:32:40
Speaker
What should I think about that?
00:32:42
Speaker
I guess it's important to say where's the nails and screws and what type of nails and screws they are.
00:32:48
Speaker
But holding a drawer together, especially in
00:32:54
Speaker
very informal furniture because in some more country pieces, the further South you go, they, they did use nails, but you should always look for a nice crisp dovetail.
00:33:06
Speaker
And the exciting thing for me about this piece, again, going down the rabbit hole a little bit, the way the dovetails were cut was in a very English manner, which means they were very sharp and precise with no excess carving anywhere.
00:33:20
Speaker
It was just really tightly put together.
00:33:23
Speaker
And so it was probably somebody who was recently off the boat, you know, who hadn't realized, well, I can get away with a little bit more.
00:33:31
Speaker
I don't need to be doing my exact thing that I did back there.
00:33:35
Speaker
Interesting.
00:33:36
Speaker
What about identifying wood?
00:33:38
Speaker
Is that something I should think about?
00:33:41
Speaker
Always think about identifying wood.
00:33:44
Speaker
You know, in America, kind of the three big woods that you see are
00:33:51
Speaker
In the South, it's a lot of yellow pine and poplar.
00:33:54
Speaker
In the Mid-Atlantic, it's a lot of poplar.
00:33:59
Speaker
And then you see some yellow pine.
00:34:00
Speaker
And all these places, you might see a little cedar.
00:34:03
Speaker
And then New England, you see a lot of white pine.
00:34:06
Speaker
And these all are kind of cues of where these pieces were made.
00:34:14
Speaker
And, you know, you'll see some unusual wood sometimes like chestnut or gum that might point to a different area.
00:34:22
Speaker
And let's face it, a lot of these pieces were in the very same style as English pieces.
00:34:28
Speaker
So we have to know the differences between, you know, American pine and European pine.
00:34:36
Speaker
And it can be a challenge.
00:34:38
Speaker
And that's why I always encourage people to
00:34:41
Speaker
Whether you're at a show, a shop, or wherever you go, the biggest thing is dealers, we love to talk.
00:34:48
Speaker
We could talk all day.
00:34:49
Speaker
That's why I'm doing a podcast.
00:34:51
Speaker
I love to talk.
00:34:54
Speaker
But they are always more thrilled than anything to explain things to you.
00:35:01
Speaker
they want to show you why they invested in this piece, why they think it's special.
00:35:07
Speaker
And more than anything, why they think that it represents something more.
00:35:13
Speaker
It's not just a chest.
00:35:15
Speaker
It's a Virginia chest from the mid-18th century that is so unusual.
00:35:21
Speaker
You won't see another one.
00:35:23
Speaker
It's one of those situations.
00:35:25
Speaker
And when you hear, I think, a dealer's passion come out,
00:35:31
Speaker
And when you hear their enthusiasm, it's addictive.
00:35:38
Speaker
I've got one more question before I let you go.
00:35:42
Speaker
If you're willing, I'd love to hear about one of the mistakes that you made, maybe during COVID or maybe another time.
00:35:49
Speaker
Well, the important thing that I tell all collectors is
00:35:54
Speaker
is everybody makes mistakes.
00:35:56
Speaker
I make mistakes.
00:35:58
Speaker
Auction houses make mistakes.
00:36:01
Speaker
And even the experts make mistakes.
00:36:05
Speaker
And one thing that I will say is being a dealer, I will always stand behind everything that I sell.
00:36:13
Speaker
And if I make mistakes, I'm willing to
00:36:17
Speaker
repay you know to make up for it and make you whole and you know because i want to remain friends with you and you know i can tell you i made multiple mistakes during covid and bought some of the most expensive furniture i ever bought that was complete forgeries and um
00:36:39
Speaker
But the main thing I would tell you is you can't be afraid of mistakes, but you can't move past your mistakes.
00:36:49
Speaker
The piece I just mentioned is sitting in my house right now, and I got to tell you, I've changed more diapers on it, and I really don't care how much damage that thing gets.
00:37:01
Speaker
And the big thing is, and that's the important of always looking for dealers that truly stand behind their merchandise.
00:37:10
Speaker
And we have to in our industry.
00:37:13
Speaker
And in years past, this wasn't the most ethical industry.
00:37:17
Speaker
But now we have nothing but our ethics and nothing but our honor to stand behind.
00:37:23
Speaker
So I have even found out in the past about things that
00:37:30
Speaker
you know, I learned, let's say I sold a piece as North Carolina and then I'm researching one day and find, oh, this unusual carving actually was probably more Virginia.
00:37:41
Speaker
I'll call my client up and say, hey, look at what I found.
00:37:44
Speaker
Here's a little bit more information.
00:37:46
Speaker
I was wrong about this, but boy, isn't this neat?
00:37:49
Speaker
And, you know,
00:37:51
Speaker
they don't feel deceived.
00:37:53
Speaker
It's the fact is, this is ongoing education.
00:37:56
Speaker
Yeah.
00:37:56
Speaker
You know, we weren't there when the pieces were made, but we were there to, to tell you how we feel about the piece and making sure that no matter what happens, we stand behind this.
00:38:10
Speaker
And please anybody who's out there,
00:38:14
Speaker
Shoot a dealer an email.
00:38:16
Speaker
Give them a call.
00:38:17
Speaker
Come over.
00:38:18
Speaker
The most important thing is go see the piece.
00:38:22
Speaker
Things can look good in photographs.
00:38:24
Speaker
I can have a six-pack in photographs, and boy, would I love that.
00:38:28
Speaker
But when you see me in person, you realize that is far from the truth.
00:38:33
Speaker
And I just think that the most important thing is that as a community and people who are interested in any decorative art or any piece of anything, you know, mid-century furniture, I love mid-century stuff.
00:38:48
Speaker
But, you know, it hits you when you see it in place.
00:38:52
Speaker
You see how it relates to other things.
00:38:55
Speaker
And you see how it actually connects you to the past.
00:39:01
Speaker
So, yeah.
00:39:03
Speaker
you know, I went through a Mad Men phase and God, I love that mid-century stuff.
00:39:07
Speaker
And you know what?
00:39:08
Speaker
I love to set it next to a piece of 17th or 18th century furniture because, you know, in some weird way it works.
00:39:15
Speaker
And I've always said this style really is transcending when it comes to these pieces, you know, and a great piece that's 350 years old versus a piece that's 50 years old.
00:39:30
Speaker
If it, if it's made well,
00:39:32
Speaker
and has beautiful lines, it is a beautiful piece.
00:39:36
Speaker
So why segregate yourself?
00:39:39
Speaker
And take your time to learn a little bit about everything.
00:39:43
Speaker
Go to auction houses, flip pieces over, you know, let them explain repairs, because they can't.
00:39:51
Speaker
And let them explain everything.
00:39:53
Speaker
And like I said, don't be afraid to make a mistake.
00:39:56
Speaker
It might happen.
00:39:57
Speaker
But the good thing is with mistakes,
00:40:00
Speaker
You know, it's not like going out and buying a car that's automatically going to lose all its value.
00:40:05
Speaker
These will always have value.
00:40:07
Speaker
You know, you might not do that in a Ferrari, but you're definitely you're going to make mistakes.
00:40:15
Speaker
And but if anybody got up there and was watching a baseball game and every hit was a home run, would it be any fun?
00:40:26
Speaker
Well, Taylor, thanks so much for joining me and for coming back on Curious Objects.
00:40:30
Speaker
It's been a lot of fun to talk to you.
00:40:32
Speaker
I've had the best time, Ben, and we hope to get you back down south to Virginia.
00:40:36
Speaker
You have been away from your Tennessee roots too long, my friend.
00:40:39
Speaker
I'll see you down there sometime soon.
00:40:44
Speaker
Today's episode was edited and produced by Sammy Delati with social media and web support by Sarah Bellotta.
00:40:49
Speaker
Sierra Holt is our digital media and editorial associate.
00:40:53
Speaker
Our music is by Trap Rabbit, and I'm Ben Miller.
00:41:15
Speaker
When you walk into a Burlington, you're walking into amazing prices and great gifts.
00:41:20
Speaker
That's main character energy.
00:41:23
Speaker
Because at Burlington, the holiday savings aren't the only things turning heads.
00:41:27
Speaker
Discover quality finds and perfect presents for everyone.