Become a Creator today!Start creating today - Share your story with the world!
Start for free
00:00:00
00:00:01
Why You Should Spend $10,000 on a Shaving Bowl
21 Plays2 years ago
Like host Benjamin Miller, Oliver Newton specializes in silver—specifically, that from England, and especially silver from the nineteenth century and before. He has in hand a 1713 Anthony Nelme shaving bowl, one of those otherwise workaday objects made exceptional by fine craftsmanship, distinguished provenance, and, of course, the luster and value of its material. From the bowl’s history to the ins and outs of slinging hollowware, Oliver and Ben cover the antiquing gamut in the collegial manner what befits two young swells of the trade.
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices
Recommended
Transcript
Introduction to 'Curious Objects' and Silver
00:00:09
Speaker
Hello and welcome to Curious Objects, brought to you by the magazine Antiques.
00:00:12
Speaker
I'm Ben Miller.
00:00:14
Speaker
It is always a thrill when I get to do an episode about silver.
00:00:17
Speaker
In case you don't know already, I'm a silver dealer myself at the firm Shrubsel in New York, so I am heavily biased.
00:00:24
Speaker
But it really is a special material because, well, it's literally made out of money.
00:00:29
Speaker
And newsflash, people have always cared a lot about money.
00:00:32
Speaker
So silver can connect us really intimately to people's values and preoccupations, and very careful records were often kept about silver objects.
00:00:44
Speaker
In fact, whole legal systems were established to regulate the production and sale of these pieces.
00:00:49
Speaker
And the owners of these objects even engraved their names and crests and coat of arms right onto them just to make abundantly clear whose wonderful thing it is.
00:00:58
Speaker
And all that information is such a privilege for those of us who want to use objects as a window into past lives and ways of
Meet Oliver Newton: A Passion for Silver
00:01:07
Speaker
life.
00:01:07
Speaker
So I am excited to be joined today by another silver dealer and a friend of mine, Oliver Newton.
00:01:13
Speaker
Oliver is the competitor you want to have.
00:01:16
Speaker
He is a young entrepreneur who went independent a few years ago and he is bringing fresh energy to the industry.
00:01:24
Speaker
He does a wonderful video series about pieces he has bought called The Silver Lining, which you should absolutely look up as soon as you're done with this episode.
00:01:32
Speaker
And like me, Oliver specializes in English silver from the 19th century and earlier.
00:01:38
Speaker
So today we're going to hear about his journey starting an antiques business from scratch, his love for antique silver, how he navigates the market today, where he finds his inventory, and above all, we're going to hear about his curious object, a fascinating and beautiful shaving bowl from the early 18th century.
00:01:58
Speaker
Oliver, thanks for joining me.
00:02:00
Speaker
Hi Ben, it's a pleasure to be on here.
00:02:02
Speaker
Thank you for inviting me.
00:02:03
Speaker
It's always great to speak to you and I'm very excited about this.
00:02:07
Speaker
Are you ready for some rapid fire questions?
00:02:10
Speaker
I'm ready as I'm gonna be.
00:02:11
Speaker
All right, let's go.
00:02:13
Speaker
What's the oldest object you personally own?
00:02:16
Speaker
It is a silver beaker made circa 1690 in Augsburg by a silvetsmith called Porcelanier.
00:02:24
Speaker
Yeah, so that's what 330 years old.
00:02:26
Speaker
That's
Oliver's Adventures and Favorite Items
00:02:27
Speaker
not bad.
00:02:27
Speaker
Okay, there's an asteroid headed for Earth.
00:02:30
Speaker
And you've been selected for the escape pod.
00:02:32
Speaker
What one object are you bringing with you?
00:02:35
Speaker
Well, I think I'm looking at them as a pair of candlesticks made in 1770.
00:02:39
Speaker
Because, you know, if you've got a pair of candlesticks, then at least you can light up wherever you're going to.
00:02:43
Speaker
That's a fair point.
00:02:47
Speaker
I would hope your spacecraft might have electricity, but, you know.
00:02:50
Speaker
Yeah, but everything looks nicer under candlelight.
00:02:53
Speaker
So at least you can have some romance when you're having to leave Earth.
00:02:58
Speaker
What's the most valuable object that you've ever touched?
00:03:02
Speaker
It's probably going to be a diamond that was gone out for auction.
00:03:06
Speaker
But in terms of silver, I'd have to say it was the famous one of the famous Aldo Brandini collection of Renaissance tats, which I think there was 12, which you probably know about.
00:03:16
Speaker
And they are certainly in the seven figures.
00:03:19
Speaker
Yeah.
00:03:20
Speaker
Yeah.
00:03:20
Speaker
Well, they were at the Met just a few years ago.
00:03:22
Speaker
Correct.
00:03:23
Speaker
Exactly.
From Classics to Culture: Oliver's Inspirations
00:03:24
Speaker
You're now banned from your current field and you have to pick a new one.
00:03:28
Speaker
What's it going to be?
00:03:30
Speaker
It's going to sound a bit cliche, but I really love classic cars.
00:03:34
Speaker
It's something that is, for me, is a time machine into history.
00:03:38
Speaker
So I probably would do that.
00:03:40
Speaker
It's a passion of mine.
00:03:42
Speaker
You know, when you sit in a classic car, you really drive in a classic car, or lucky enough to drive it yourself, you just get transported back to time.
00:03:51
Speaker
And it's, in my opinion, the closest thing you can get to a time machine.
00:03:55
Speaker
What movie has the most interesting depiction of material culture?
00:03:58
Speaker
Yeah, this is a hard one because I'm not into movies.
00:04:00
Speaker
So I'd probably say it has to be something like Downton Abbey.
00:04:04
Speaker
And there was a movie.
00:04:05
Speaker
There was a movie.
00:04:07
Speaker
Not saying I like it, but it's in terms of what we do.
00:04:10
Speaker
It's probably got a pretty good depiction of how people use these objects.
00:04:14
Speaker
Yeah, I think they overall actually did quite a good job portraying the sorts of objects that these people were actually likely to have in their homes.
00:04:22
Speaker
What's your very favorite museum to visit?
00:04:25
Speaker
It has to be on my home turf, the Victoria and Albert Museum.
00:04:29
Speaker
It's somewhere I go on a very regular basis.
00:04:32
Speaker
And I love the Met in New York, but the V&A for me is just a fabulous place to go.
00:04:38
Speaker
What's one misconception that people have about your field that you'd like to correct?
Silver Misconceptions and Inspirations
00:04:43
Speaker
I think the misconception, and you've talked about this in your previous podcast, that silver is a real chore to own.
00:04:50
Speaker
It's only when you don't use it that it's a problem.
00:04:53
Speaker
It's when you do use it regularly, it doesn't get dirty.
00:04:56
Speaker
And it's something that's very easy to keep.
00:05:00
Speaker
What artist or craftsperson, living or dead, would you invite to dinner?
00:05:04
Speaker
Well, I think I'm going to have to stick to a silversmith and I'll probably have to
00:05:09
Speaker
But go back to Paul's thought again, although quite cliche, he made some of the greatest things and, you know, his experience working for Rundle Bridge and Rundle, making many of the great royal pieces that exist today.
00:05:23
Speaker
I'd love to chat with him and see, find out a bit more about that.
00:05:28
Speaker
What's the first object that you remember falling in love with?
00:05:32
Speaker
I would say falling in love is a strong word, but the first object that really got me into antiques were antique cameras when I was like six or seven years old.
00:05:43
Speaker
And I saw this camera in an antique shop, a camera which I actually have on my desk today, which I paid two pounds for.
00:05:49
Speaker
It fascinated me at the time.
00:05:51
Speaker
It was one of those old 1930s cameras with the sort of bellows on it.
00:05:56
Speaker
And it just fascinated me.
00:05:58
Speaker
Again, it was like a time machine.
00:06:00
Speaker
And, you know, as a six year old, that really opened my eyes to understanding history in a very real way.
00:06:07
Speaker
I love that you've kept that.
00:06:09
Speaker
That's so sweet.
00:06:10
Speaker
It doesn't work.
00:06:13
Speaker
Well, that's beside the point.
00:06:15
Speaker
What one book should an amateur read to start to understand your field?
00:06:20
Speaker
I think you've got to go with the basics.
00:06:22
Speaker
I mean, you've got some, as you know, amazing books on silver, but one that I, you know, I would say the first book on the bookshelf is probably like Michael Clayton's Dictionary of Goldsmiths and Silversmiths.
00:06:34
Speaker
A great book gives you a real cross-section of the silversmiths, the pieces, and just gives you a sort of very basic understanding of different periods, different styles, different silversmiths.
00:06:47
Speaker
And you can turn to a different page and have a completely different experience every day.
00:06:51
Speaker
Exactly.
00:06:52
Speaker
And I think that's something I always tell people that, you know, if you don't have any knowledge, just start there and just flick through it.
00:06:59
Speaker
Yeah.
00:07:00
Speaker
And if you do have a lot of knowledge, you still might find it helpful from time to time.
00:07:04
Speaker
Funny enough, from time to time, I found things that, you know, I've bought that sort of are illustrated in the book, which is also very nice.
00:07:11
Speaker
But yeah, it's, you know, what I would say again, so I know I'm going over the one or two sentences, but again, it's these sort of longer books that you sort of, as you said, have to read.
00:07:23
Speaker
chapter by chapter, but something like that is just great.
00:07:26
Speaker
You can pick it up, see a couple of things, put it down, do the same thing the next day or next week.
00:07:32
Speaker
What was your last international trip?
00:07:34
Speaker
I think it was to your home turf to New York City.
00:07:38
Speaker
What did you do here?
00:07:39
Speaker
Well, I came to see you.
00:07:44
Speaker
And I go on a relatively regular basis.
00:07:47
Speaker
I have quite a lot of customers there.
00:07:48
Speaker
Should I be saying that to you?
00:07:49
Speaker
No, Jake.
00:07:52
Speaker
Now I've got quite a lot of customers there and I, you know, come to see you and ShrubSol.
00:07:58
Speaker
So, you know, dealing with customers in America and in the UK, it's, you know, whilst we do a lot with technology over the phone and over pictures, I think it's also important to catch up with customers, certainly those who can't travel to the UK.
00:08:14
Speaker
What's the coolest decorative arts discovery that you've made?
Research and Discovery in Silver
00:08:19
Speaker
It's hard to make discoveries.
00:08:21
Speaker
I think the best things I do is sort of find the provenance of objects.
00:08:28
Speaker
So I don't have a specific discovery that I made, although I am always stunning for finding that treasure, that story about that Sabage piece that that man found in a car boot sale that sold for $25 million that Rotsky's acquired.
00:08:45
Speaker
So I haven't discovered anything per se.
00:08:48
Speaker
But, you know, what I love is buying an object and doing the research on it and just finding the history.
00:08:54
Speaker
Not that that changes the value, it just makes it more interesting for me.
00:08:59
Speaker
What was the last object that you saw that gave you shivers?
00:09:04
Speaker
Well, I think it was an object I bought.
00:09:06
Speaker
I know it's a bit biased, but I had it about a year ago.
00:09:09
Speaker
It was this amazing sugar vase made by Digby Scott and Benjamin Smith by Rundle Bridge and Rundle, made in 1803.
00:09:19
Speaker
It was just outstanding.
00:09:21
Speaker
The coat of arms was actually the part of the design.
00:09:25
Speaker
So the handles were part of the coat of arms.
00:09:28
Speaker
And it was just such a jewel of an object.
00:09:30
Speaker
You know, often these pieces are large and they're tureens or candelabra.
00:09:34
Speaker
This was a sugar vase.
00:09:35
Speaker
So small, but just outstanding.
00:09:38
Speaker
And the minute I saw it, I knew I had to have it.
00:09:41
Speaker
It was just, and you know, as a business, you have to sell these objects, but it really did give me shivers when I saw it.
00:09:49
Speaker
Yeah, that's the eternal dilemma of being a dealer.
00:09:53
Speaker
You buy what you love only to lose it again.
00:09:55
Speaker
This is true.
00:09:56
Speaker
And of course, if you don't sell it, that's even worse.
00:09:59
Speaker
Yeah, yeah, exactly.
00:10:00
Speaker
Okay, let's talk about... That's the great thing about being a dealer is that, you know, I can't necessarily justify just being a collector and buying all these things, but you do get the pleasure of owning it even for a short amount of time.
00:10:15
Speaker
And that for me is still better than not owning it at all.
00:10:18
Speaker
Well, and presumably there's always something else coming down the line.
00:10:21
Speaker
So yeah, I'm very friendly with the customer who bought it and I do see it on a regular basis.
00:10:27
Speaker
So it's not the end of the world.
00:10:29
Speaker
That's nice.
00:10:30
Speaker
Okay, let's talk about our curious object for today.
00:10:33
Speaker
It's a shaving bowl from 1713.
00:10:34
Speaker
So a little over 300 years old by the London silversmith Anthony Nelm.
00:10:41
Speaker
For starters, can you just give us a mental image of what this object looks like?
00:10:45
Speaker
Yeah, so it's a, I suppose, oblong in shape.
00:10:48
Speaker
It's a bowl, essentially.
00:10:50
Speaker
And it's got a cutout where you would put your, I suppose, your footman would hold the bowl up and you would place your neck to the bowl in the water.
00:10:59
Speaker
And, you know, it would be poured and all the excess water would go into the bowl.
00:11:06
Speaker
But it's a very plain object.
00:11:08
Speaker
It's just quite a wide border, but no decoration apart from the original coat of arms.
00:11:14
Speaker
But just the most beautiful, plain, contemporary piece of silver.
00:11:20
Speaker
And if you turn it over, it's got those lovely hammer marks all over it where you can see it was risen from a flat piece of silver.
00:11:26
Speaker
And how big is it?
00:11:29
Speaker
It's just shy of 14 inches in length.
00:11:33
Speaker
Okay, so about the size of a large coffee table book, perhaps.
00:11:37
Speaker
Exactly, exactly.
00:11:39
Speaker
Or a nice shrub sole catalogue.
00:11:45
Speaker
Oh, flattery will get you everywhere.
00:11:46
Speaker
Okay, we're going to come back to this piece.
00:11:48
Speaker
But I want to start with a very general question, which is maybe impossible to answer.
00:11:54
Speaker
It may be very easy for you to answer.
00:11:55
Speaker
I don't know.
00:11:56
Speaker
Why do you love antique silver?
00:11:58
Speaker
Well, it's not something I grew up surrounded by.
00:12:02
Speaker
It wasn't a sort of a natural progression.
00:12:04
Speaker
As I said prior, I was very much into the thing that got me into antiques was cameras when I was a young, you know, young child.
00:12:13
Speaker
And then I continued to collect as I went through my teens.
00:12:18
Speaker
And it was when I was about 17, I wanted to look for a job, started putting my CVs in different people.
00:12:24
Speaker
And it was a silver dealer that got back to me and said, yeah, you can come work here, probably because there was not a huge demand for people working at silver dealers.
00:12:36
Speaker
But that said, I spent my summer working there and got exposed to a world that I never been exposed to objects that I never really had ever seen or handled.
00:12:46
Speaker
And I was just mesmerized instantly.
00:12:49
Speaker
And I instantly understood the magic of silver, you know.
00:12:54
Speaker
Silver was not like today where, say, for example, paintings are considered the most important commodity in someone's collection, not commodity, the most important part of someone's collection.
00:13:04
Speaker
Silver, when it was made, especially 17th, 18th,
00:13:09
Speaker
19th century silver was essentially as you said in the introduction people's wealth people's money it was it was so uh central to their to their collection and when you understand that it just became fascinating um and i think also it was something i like to use things i like to enjoy things and silver i instantly saw was
00:13:32
Speaker
an object that you know you can use and enjoy it doesn't just stay on a on a wall or not that obviously I love paintings too and I love all other forms but it's something that is so tactile and you can use and enjoy it and that yeah it was that that's that's something that really excited me about it and and one thing led to another
00:13:53
Speaker
So your business, Oliver Newton Antiques, how would you describe that to a stranger?
Curating Unique Silver Pieces
00:13:59
Speaker
How do you think about its niche and its identity?
00:14:04
Speaker
Well, I think, you know, my general speciality is from, say, late 17th to 19th century, mostly English silver.
00:14:13
Speaker
But what I really I try and find things that are slightly unusual.
00:14:17
Speaker
You know, I'm very much design led in terms of what I look for.
00:14:22
Speaker
I look at the object first, what it looks like.
00:14:26
Speaker
And that's really interesting.
00:14:28
Speaker
what's important to me.
00:14:30
Speaker
So I think I try and buy things that are slightly different, slightly unusual.
00:14:34
Speaker
And I would like to think not that there are plenty of wonderful things to buy at Shrub Store, but I'd like to think these are sort of things that there's very few other places you can buy them.
00:14:44
Speaker
And, you know, I really do think, you know, that's a niche I'm trying to carve out for myself.
00:14:50
Speaker
Yeah.
00:14:50
Speaker
Well, and certainly we've bought unusual things from you that you found and we didn't and vice versa, I should say.
00:14:56
Speaker
Yeah, absolutely.
00:14:57
Speaker
It goes both ways.
00:14:59
Speaker
So what would you say has been the most unexpected challenge of starting your own silver business?
00:15:05
Speaker
I think the biggest challenge, and it wasn't unexpected to an extent, is financially, you know, obviously to build a silver business and to build and to become a sort of competitor in a market, albeit a relatively small market, but it's still a strong market.
00:15:24
Speaker
To be a competitor in it, you know, you have to build your own stock.
00:15:28
Speaker
So that was difficult because you have to, as your business grows, you have to reinvest the money into buying more pieces, which wasn't easy, but it pays off in the end because, you know, people, I think, take notice of that.
00:15:44
Speaker
And if you're buying lovely things, it certainly makes difference.
00:15:48
Speaker
And I think also the other challenge was getting customers, you know, when you start a business without really much
00:15:57
Speaker
Obviously, I worked for a great dealer and so, you know, very close with them.
00:16:02
Speaker
But, you know, it's important, you know, to find your own customers.
00:16:07
Speaker
And it was very difficult when you didn't have a sort of, say, a family background in the industry or any sort of
00:16:16
Speaker
uh clout should i say um so that takes time as well and i i actually that was probably even more so the most difficult part because i didn't anticipate how much time it would take you know to start actually getting people to buy from you and where do you go about looking for for new things to buy
00:16:35
Speaker
Well, you know, as I said, I come to New York and, you know, I buy from you guys.
The Journey of a Shaving Bowl
00:16:39
Speaker
I buy from dealers auctions as well.
00:16:42
Speaker
And as the business has grown, you start and things that you've sold several years ago.
00:16:48
Speaker
Now I've been doing it.
00:16:49
Speaker
I think we're sort of on the seventh year now.
00:16:53
Speaker
customers will say, okay, well, I bought this a few years ago.
00:16:56
Speaker
I like what you've got in stock.
00:16:57
Speaker
Would you trade this back or would you buy?
00:16:59
Speaker
And I'm happy to do that.
00:17:01
Speaker
So often you get pieces that way as well.
00:17:03
Speaker
But as you'll attest to, there's such a finite amount of really good objects.
00:17:08
Speaker
And I'm not talking about, it doesn't have to be expensive, but just really fine pieces that you have to look everywhere, be it auction houses in the trade,
00:17:17
Speaker
and also private pieces that may come to you or through customers that you already have.
00:17:24
Speaker
So take this shaving bowl, our Anthony and Helm 1713 shaving bowl, our curious object.
00:17:31
Speaker
Talk me through the process of how you acquire it, how you investigate it, what kind of research are you doing on it?
00:17:40
Speaker
Then how do you promote it?
00:17:42
Speaker
How do you make it attractive and interesting to your customer base and
00:17:47
Speaker
And finally, I suppose this hasn't happened yet, but how will you ultimately close the sale?
00:17:52
Speaker
Just give me the life cycle of this piece as it goes through your shop.
00:17:56
Speaker
Okay, so this piece was actually in a private collection, but I actually acquired it from a dealer who had purchased it.
00:18:07
Speaker
very recently before I purchased it from a private collection.
00:18:12
Speaker
I saw it and it's just something I thought was absolutely magnificent.
00:18:15
Speaker
As I said, I'm a very visual buyer and I just thought the design and without plugging me, you can see the full images and details on my website to get an understanding of what it is.
00:18:26
Speaker
But it's just a very contemporary piece.
00:18:29
Speaker
And so I immediately was attracted to it.
00:18:34
Speaker
I acquired it and I could see the quality.
00:18:37
Speaker
um and then we found the coat of arms but what was more interesting than the um than just a coat of arms was i didn't realize or appreciate when i bought it that it that domestic shaving bowls when i say domestic you had traveling uh shaving sets that you know people would have taken if they
00:18:58
Speaker
traveled around or went on campaign or whatever.
00:19:03
Speaker
There are a few examples of those, but there's very few examples of early or late 17th and early 18th century silver domestic shaving bowls.
00:19:14
Speaker
Obviously, it was something that was you would have to be exceedingly wealthy to acquire because most silver was purchased to be
00:19:23
Speaker
you know, to show, it's a show of wealth, a show of what you had and a shaving ball would have been something that you wouldn't have shared with your guests.
00:19:32
Speaker
You know, it's a private object that would have been in your in your bathroom or, you know, wherever you were shaving in your inner sanctum of your home.
00:19:40
Speaker
So to acquire something like that in silver.
00:19:43
Speaker
especially by Anthony Nelman.
00:19:44
Speaker
I know we'll go on to Anthony Nelman, but he was a silversmith favoured by Queen Anne.
00:19:49
Speaker
So, you know, one of the greatest silversmiths, or arguably one of the greatest silversmiths of the day, was a really special thing.
00:19:56
Speaker
So there are very few examples.
00:19:58
Speaker
So it's a really rare object.
00:20:01
Speaker
And that was of great interest to me.
00:20:06
Speaker
And then obviously, you know, in terms of how do I market it,
00:20:10
Speaker
I think the important thing with objects and a lot of people will think I'm crazy, but, you know, just because something was made in 1713 for a particular purpose does not mean that in 2023 one has to use it for that said purpose.
00:20:25
Speaker
You know, this.
00:20:26
Speaker
or take a side that it's got this uh cut out for your essentially for your neck it's a beautiful bowl you know that would you could use it for serving you could use it for whatever you want a fruit for salad for potatoes whatever you want it's just a beautiful thing and you know funny enough i was at a customer's yesterday and he who's interested in it and he was looking at it and he said you know i've never thought about it
00:20:51
Speaker
for that reason he said but i can't i'm not sure if i can get away from the fact that it was a shaving bowl and i said yeah but that's what makes it interesting you know when you have friends around and it's on your table and they say well well you know what's why has it got that indentation in the in the in the border i think that's a really cool thing you know it's um but uh yeah so that's
00:21:12
Speaker
Well, Oliver, you're talking with someone who used to eat chocolates out of a silver chamber pot.
00:21:17
Speaker
So there you go.
00:21:20
Speaker
Shaving bowl is really amateur.
00:21:21
Speaker
Yeah, exactly.
00:21:22
Speaker
So that's how I market it.
00:21:24
Speaker
You know, obviously, I market it as a shaving bowl.
00:21:26
Speaker
I'm not trying to deceive anyone, but its use is it's a wonderful size as a piece to be used for serving, to be used on your table, whatever you want in there.
00:21:36
Speaker
And I just think it's I think the shaving aspect adds a real interesting dimension to it.
00:21:41
Speaker
So Oliver, with that in mind, how would you describe the person who's likely to buy this piece?
00:21:47
Speaker
Well, I think there are probably one of two types of people.
00:21:50
Speaker
One person would be the traditional buyer of early 18th century English silver who might have a collection of other pieces, a lovely octagonal coffee pot, you know, nice, plain, early 18th century English pieces.
00:22:04
Speaker
And they might want it for, you know, just part of their collection because it's by Anthony Nelm, who was a very well-known silversmith, and it's a rare object.
00:22:12
Speaker
So that's one buyer.
00:22:13
Speaker
The more the
00:22:14
Speaker
sort of collector traditional collector buyer and then the other buyer is someone who really just sees the beauty solely in its in its aesthetic um not that they disregard its history but just see it as a beautiful object with a really interesting history but they'll use whether they use it on their table um i mean i even think it would look cool in a um in your sort of uh guest um
00:22:41
Speaker
bathroom, you know, with hand towels in it, you know, on a, by your sink, it would look amazing.
00:22:47
Speaker
So, yeah, so it's one or two buyers, I think you've got the traditional collector or just someone who wants a beautiful object for their home, maybe a more contemporary house is not specifically a silver collector, but just, you know, thinks it's a really wonderful object.
00:23:02
Speaker
So let's travel back to 1713.
00:23:04
Speaker
And I want to ask essentially the same question, but instead of the contemporary collector, I want to ask it about the original collector or buyer of this bull.
00:23:13
Speaker
How would you describe that person who originally bought this?
00:23:16
Speaker
Actually, do we know who that was in particular?
00:23:21
Speaker
I'm almost certain.
00:23:22
Speaker
I mean, as far as my investigation went on the coat of arms, it was made for the Stone family.
00:23:29
Speaker
And Andrew Stone, who was the founder of Martin's Bank, which was a well-known bank in London.
00:23:36
Speaker
So obviously a man of great wealth, but also a man that probably wanted to show his wealth, should I say.
00:23:45
Speaker
Except he wasn't showing it publicly through the use of the shaving ball in particular.
00:23:50
Speaker
As you mentioned, that was a private object.
00:23:52
Speaker
I think by proxy, if you had a silver shaving bowl, you are probably someone, unless you were, you know, of, of, uh, unless you were say George the first or, or someone Royal standing, um, you were probably someone who liked the finer things in life.
00:24:08
Speaker
And, uh,
00:24:09
Speaker
It would probably point to the fact that you enjoyed showing your wealth in other ways.
00:24:13
Speaker
So I don't know because I don't have any other pieces from his service, but I wouldn't be surprised if his service was also quite extravagant.
00:24:24
Speaker
Yeah, so describe this setting for me.
00:24:27
Speaker
This is perhaps kept in his bathroom where his saving takes place.
00:24:32
Speaker
What else is around it?
00:24:33
Speaker
Well, you would have had a jug of some description, probably a silver jug made by Anthony Nelm.
00:24:41
Speaker
They often were sold together.
00:24:43
Speaker
the shaving jug and basin, obviously to pour the water.
00:24:48
Speaker
So originally, almost certainly would have had a jug together.
00:24:52
Speaker
And then you could have had multiple other objects in the bath, in the toiletry collection.
00:25:00
Speaker
But in terms of shaving, those would be the two main things.
00:25:04
Speaker
The jug, I'm sure, would have been absolutely beautiful.
00:25:06
Speaker
And to have the jug and basin together would have been
00:25:10
Speaker
quite a treasure, but I'm very happy with the basin.
00:25:13
Speaker
Indeed.
00:25:14
Speaker
So we've mentioned the silversmith Anthony Nelm a number of times, a very familiar name for people in the silver trade like you and me, but for listeners who aren't specialists in early 18th century English silversmiths, what can you tell me about Anthony Nelm?
00:25:30
Speaker
Well, he was a really well-known silversmith.
00:25:34
Speaker
I mean, he's made plenty of pieces for many of the aristocratic families.
00:25:40
Speaker
There's pieces by him in Chatsworth.
00:25:43
Speaker
There's pieces by him in the Royal Collection.
00:25:45
Speaker
He was favoured as one of the favoured silversmiths for Queen Anne.
00:25:50
Speaker
So he really was...
00:25:53
Speaker
well regarded in his period and unusually he was of English heritage so at the time most of the great silversmiths were beginning to be Huguenots because their skills were absolutely fantastic and they had come mostly from France to London and brought their skills with them
00:26:16
Speaker
um but uh contrary to the wishes of the native silversmiths of course including nalm himself who was one of the signatories on the the famous petitions against uh what they called uh necessitous strangers exactly and and well but um fortunately to the english silversmiths the the huguenots were absolutely impeccable and arguably were the reason why english silver throughout the 18th century continued to increase its dominance
00:26:45
Speaker
throughout Europe and other places but anyway Anthony Nelm was one of the he was English by descent but continued to be a well regarded silversmith and yeah just I mean this is a very plain piece that he made it would be a fantastic quality but he also made some quite over the top pieces I think in the Royal Collection there's a pilgrim vase which is very elaborate and amongst other things
00:27:15
Speaker
Does it ever feel like you're a marketing professional just speaking into the void?
00:27:22
Speaker
But with LinkedIn ads, you can know you're reaching the right decision makers, a network of 130 million of them, in fact.
00:27:27
Speaker
You can even target buyers by job title, industry, company, seniority, skills, and did I say job title?
00:27:33
Speaker
See how you can avoid the void and reach the right buyers with LinkedIn ads.
00:27:36
Speaker
Spend $250 on your first campaign and get a free $250 credit for the next one.
00:27:41
Speaker
Get started at linkedin.com slash campaign.
00:27:44
Speaker
Terms and conditions apply.
00:27:46
Speaker
Yeah, it's interesting.
00:27:47
Speaker
You mentioned the hammer marks that you can see on the underside of this piece, revealing that it was in fact raised from a single sheet of silver.
00:27:56
Speaker
And I think to newcomers to the silver collecting trade, that might sound like the piece is unfinished.
00:28:05
Speaker
But in fact, the reality is that that's a sign of excellent condition.
00:28:11
Speaker
and an indication that this piece has not been, say, overpolished and worn down.
00:28:19
Speaker
Can you just tell me a little about that feature, the existence of these sort of marks of handicraft on a piece of antique silver?
00:28:28
Speaker
Yeah, well, as you said, it's a, it's, well, obviously on the top, on the
00:28:34
Speaker
top of the dish where the eye would see, there are no marks.
00:28:39
Speaker
It's all beautifully flat and these marks are underneath and exactly as you said,
00:28:45
Speaker
They're beautifully done and it's not messy in that sense.
00:28:48
Speaker
They're very uniform and it's just the nature of how these objects are made.
00:28:54
Speaker
But exactly what you said about in terms of restoration, when you have these beautiful uniform hammer marks underneath, you know the object hasn't been tampered with.
00:29:04
Speaker
It's still very much in its original state.
00:29:07
Speaker
Often when a piece gets dented and it needs to be repaired, you might lose a bit of that
00:29:13
Speaker
detail underneath.
00:29:15
Speaker
But in this case, it all remains there.
00:29:19
Speaker
Yeah.
00:29:19
Speaker
Yeah.
00:29:20
Speaker
And I think the more you look at these pieces, particularly these early 18th century pieces where those planishing hammer marks can be so refined, so precise, so regular, it becomes really enchanting.
00:29:34
Speaker
I mean, I... Yeah.
00:29:35
Speaker
I mean, I liken them to, you know, looking at brushstrokes on a painting.
00:29:39
Speaker
For me, you're literally seeing the hand of the silversmith
00:29:44
Speaker
You know, this is you're seeing firsthand.
00:29:46
Speaker
Obviously, as you get later into the 18th century and into the 19th century, you know, the production of silver becomes a lot more mechanized.
00:29:56
Speaker
But, you know, when you see these early pieces and you see those hammer marks and you see how beautifully uniform they are, it really, really connects you to the object.
00:30:08
Speaker
And as I said, it's in my opinion, like looking at brushstrokes on the painting.
00:30:14
Speaker
So I think people often associate antiques with ornamentation, with decoration that's dense and complex and sometimes can even feel fussy.
00:30:27
Speaker
But as you mentioned, this bowl, like much English silver from this time period at the very beginning of the 18th century, it's extremely simple and plain and geometric.
00:30:39
Speaker
Does this strike you as a good object for challenging some of the aesthetic preconceptions that people might have?
00:30:46
Speaker
Yeah, I think it really does.
00:30:48
Speaker
I think that's something I try and do in terms of the pieces I buy.
Modern Uses and Market Trends in Silver
00:30:54
Speaker
You know, when people who are not into antiques or not specifically into collecting silver and they make assumptions that, you know, antique pieces are fussy and they're not my style, you know, you're talking about a period of, say, three, four hundred years.
00:31:10
Speaker
And obviously you can't pigeonhole that three or four centuries to one design.
00:31:18
Speaker
And really there are aesthetic to fit everyone's taste, you know, certainly in English silver.
00:31:25
Speaker
And one thing I love about, exactly as you said, about these early 18th century pieces is they are so plain.
00:31:32
Speaker
And if you were to put it on a table in front of
00:31:35
Speaker
a group of people that had no prior knowledge about silver and maybe hid the coat of arms because that is a slight giveaway.
00:31:43
Speaker
But apart from that, you say, how old is this object?
00:31:46
Speaker
I would be surprised if a lot of people didn't say, oh, it's made in the last 10 years.
00:31:50
Speaker
Some people might say it's not dead.
00:31:52
Speaker
But I would be very surprised if anyone would say it's over 300 years old.
00:31:57
Speaker
And, you know, that's what I love is about sort of making people understand that there's so much in terms of what we have and what was made that can have a place in a beautifully modern environment as much as it can have a place in a beautiful antique environment.
00:32:16
Speaker
And going back to the point, just because it was a shaving bowl originally,
00:32:22
Speaker
What it was needed for 310 years ago is completely irrelevant to what you can do and use it for now.
00:32:30
Speaker
So, yeah, I think this does certainly push the boundaries.
00:32:35
Speaker
I think it's a sculptural object.
00:32:37
Speaker
It's a work of art.
00:32:38
Speaker
And the beauty is in its plainness.
00:32:43
Speaker
Because as you...
00:32:45
Speaker
No, go ahead.
00:32:46
Speaker
No, I was going to say, you know, as you know, in terms of making silver, you know, these early pieces, these plain pieces, you have to be so skilled as a silversmith because you don't have any casting or decoration to hide behind.
00:33:02
Speaker
Every angle, every surface has to be perfect.
00:33:06
Speaker
And that's what I love about this period as well.
00:33:09
Speaker
It's deeply intimidating.
00:33:10
Speaker
But yeah, I mean, I love your point about how this piece doesn't have to be used today as a shaving bowl.
00:33:18
Speaker
Some of my favorite antique silver objects are what I think of as obsolete pieces, which is to say pieces that were made for a purpose that no longer exists.
00:33:28
Speaker
And what's interesting to me about those is there came a time when it was no longer useful for its original purpose.
00:33:34
Speaker
At which point, it was just a bunch of money sitting around collecting dust.
00:33:38
Speaker
And so the strong incentive was to melt it down, get your money back out of it, make it into something else, update it.
00:33:45
Speaker
And yet, the choice was made not to do that.
00:33:48
Speaker
And the choice was made not just once, but generation after generation after generation, people decided, you know, even though this is technically not a useful object in the way it was originally intended,
00:33:59
Speaker
it still has value, whether it's sentimental value, aesthetic value, value that justifies keeping very valuable collection of money locked away in this object.
00:34:12
Speaker
So I get special pleasure out of objects like that.
00:34:16
Speaker
And in the case of the shaving bowl, as you've mentioned, there are new ways of putting it to use if you are willing to think a little creatively about it.
00:34:26
Speaker
yeah i mean i think you know another great example of using other things um sorry using things that for their not original purpose obviously salt cellars are one of those um objects especially large salt cellars um that often people we don't use as much salt as they may have used in the mid 18th century
00:34:47
Speaker
So while small salt cellars are lovely on the table, it's unlikely that people are going to have fill a big sort of cauldron or big bowl type salt cellar full of salt.
00:34:59
Speaker
I sold last year a beautiful set of four mid-18th century salt cellars by Edward Wakelin that were particularly large.
00:35:09
Speaker
And the customer who now has them uses them for ice cream.
00:35:13
Speaker
Oh, fantastic.
00:35:14
Speaker
And they look amazing because when the ice cream frosts, you know, and you get the beautiful frosting on the silver, the decoration pops out.
00:35:22
Speaker
I mean, they look outstanding.
00:35:25
Speaker
But if someone said to me, can you get me some beautiful ice cream bowls?
00:35:29
Speaker
You can't find them.
00:35:30
Speaker
But why couldn't you use these fantastic salt cellars for ice cream?
00:35:33
Speaker
I mean, they are perfect size.
00:35:35
Speaker
They look amazing.
00:35:36
Speaker
And, you know, it's a lot, you know, now he uses them.
00:35:40
Speaker
He particularly likes ice cream.
00:35:42
Speaker
So he uses them on a regular basis.
00:35:44
Speaker
Whereas if he was only using them for salt, he would probably never use them.
00:35:48
Speaker
I'm absolutely stealing that sales pitch, by the way.
00:35:51
Speaker
No, but it's true.
00:35:52
Speaker
I should actually get a picture of them in use.
00:35:55
Speaker
But that for me is really important.
00:35:59
Speaker
And the other thing I do, which some people like and don't like, and I put it on my Instagram, I've got Ed Cruet.
00:36:06
Speaker
I love eggs and I love egg cruet sets.
00:36:08
Speaker
I think they're fabulous.
00:36:10
Speaker
And for those of you who don't know, egg cruets are, you've got the silver egg cups and they're held in a holder and they tend to be sort of four egg cups or six egg cups or eight in a holder.
00:36:21
Speaker
And I...
00:36:23
Speaker
When I have a dinner party, I've got a sort of not particularly exciting acreage, but I have one at home and I use it for condiments.
00:36:31
Speaker
So you put mustard in one and different condiments in the other.
00:36:35
Speaker
And then you can just rather than having all individual pots, you put them all in one, you know, you pass it all to someone else and then it's all tidy.
00:36:43
Speaker
And look, that might be complete sacrilege to people listening to this.
00:36:47
Speaker
So I do apologize.
00:36:48
Speaker
I don't want to offend anyone.
00:36:49
Speaker
But, you know, the point I'm making is that whatever suits me is what you should do.
00:36:57
Speaker
Whatever suits you, however best you're going to use an object, as long as you're using it and enjoying it, it doesn't matter what you use it for.
00:37:05
Speaker
So bringing us back to the shaving bowl for a moment, you're asking prices in dollars somewhere around $10,000.
00:37:12
Speaker
Why is it not $5,000 or $25,000?
00:37:16
Speaker
And what would you say to someone who might be skeptical about spending that kind of money on an object like this?
00:37:23
Speaker
Well, I think the price obviously has to reflect somewhat, firstly, what you paid for it, and secondly, the sort of market value for an object like that.
00:37:33
Speaker
Interestingly, I would argue if it didn't have the shaving indentation or that sort of net where the indentation on the border where you would place your neck, it would probably be slightly more expensive just as a early 18th century bowl or basin.
00:37:52
Speaker
And I personally, I think the fact that the shaving ball makes it more interesting.
00:37:59
Speaker
Why is it not $5,000?
00:37:59
Speaker
Firstly, again, it's based on what I paid.
00:38:04
Speaker
So that's the main thing.
00:38:06
Speaker
But it's one of those objects you can't find anywhere else.
00:38:10
Speaker
It's so rare.
00:38:11
Speaker
It's such beautiful quality.
00:38:13
Speaker
It's in beautiful condition.
00:38:16
Speaker
It's, you know, find another one.
00:38:18
Speaker
And why is it not $25,000?
00:38:19
Speaker
It's...
00:38:21
Speaker
you know what it's not that it could be you know not not to give you ideas here yeah yeah exactly but it's one of those things that there it's hard to price because it's such a rare object so i've just priced it based essentially on on what i paid and what i think is is is a is the right price for this piece
00:38:41
Speaker
what would you say to a skeptic who might be thinking right now, listening to this and thinking, my God, $10,000 for a bowl.
00:38:51
Speaker
Um, why the hell should I spend that kind of money?
00:38:54
Speaker
Well, without, without sounding rude, I think if anyone's thinking, why should I spend $10,000 on a bowl?
00:39:00
Speaker
Because it does sound crazy on paper.
00:39:02
Speaker
Absolutely bonkers.
00:39:04
Speaker
Um, they're probably not going to be the person that buys it.
00:39:08
Speaker
Um,
00:39:09
Speaker
It's the person that will buy it is someone that either understands it from a historical perspective or just sees it as a beautiful object.
00:39:17
Speaker
You know, when we focus, look at the art world in general, you know, silver really is, and I'm sure you'll agree is the sort of little cousin of the art world in the sense that, you know, for something of this importance, this rarity in this age and this condition it's in the terms of the art world in general, I don't think it's a huge amount of money.
00:39:36
Speaker
Yes.
00:39:38
Speaker
If you take that amount outside of this context, it's a huge amount of money.
00:39:42
Speaker
But when we're in relative to what we're talking about, I don't think it is.
00:39:48
Speaker
And it's as I said before, it's a case of you can't find another one.
00:39:52
Speaker
I mean, I'm sure there are other examples, but there's not currently on the market an equivalent.
00:40:01
Speaker
So how do you think the buyer for an object like this today might be different demographically or in terms of their preferences and interests might be different from the buyer for an object like this 20 years ago or 20 years in the future?
00:40:17
Speaker
Well, I think, you know, 20 years ago, you probably had many more collectors who would buy the object and
00:40:25
Speaker
for the maker, for the period, and you know, who might have specifically collected early 18th century plain English silver.
00:40:34
Speaker
I think today a lot of my customers aren't specifically silver collectors.
00:40:40
Speaker
They're just people that have lovely homes and want to fill their homes with
00:40:44
Speaker
beautiful pieces so they might buy as many paintings as much furniture and silver is just one of those things that they like to incorporate in the house things that they use and things they enjoy or sit on display but they're not specifically silver collection so i think that's definitely how it changed from 20 years ago i think today that's very much
00:41:03
Speaker
the buyer, not to say a collector wouldn't buy this, but I envisage this piece going to someone who just thinks it's a beautiful object, has a home that it just sits nicely in.
00:41:14
Speaker
And I think that industry is certainly going more in that direction, relevant to it being silver.
00:41:20
Speaker
It's just, someone will see that and say, oh, that's just outstanding.
00:41:24
Speaker
But the fact that silver is not something that would bother them, but they're not a specific silver collector.
00:41:30
Speaker
So I think that's how it is now more so.
00:41:33
Speaker
And I think it's certainly going to go more in that direction over the next 20 years.
00:41:38
Speaker
So speaking of the future, what does the future hold for Oliver Newton Antiques?
Future Plans and Podcast Farewell
00:41:42
Speaker
Well, you know, we keep growing.
00:41:45
Speaker
It was just about a year ago, I got a spot in Mayfair, which is my first individual space where I have all my pieces on display.
00:41:56
Speaker
We're just on the corner of Maddox Street and New Bond Street.
00:41:59
Speaker
So I was really happy about that.
00:42:03
Speaker
And yeah, I'm going to continue to grow.
00:42:06
Speaker
Building the stock is always the first priority doing this sort of business, especially at my early stage.
00:42:14
Speaker
And yeah, you know, I travel a lot to the States, so I'm going to continually come there.
00:42:19
Speaker
I'm sorry about that, Ben.
00:42:20
Speaker
You'll have to see me a bit more.
00:42:23
Speaker
I can live with that.
00:42:24
Speaker
But yeah, so that's really, you know, I'm just focusing on what I do, trying to do it as well as I can and do more of it, you know.
00:42:33
Speaker
And I hope I'm doing as good as I can because it's a passion like you.
00:42:39
Speaker
It's a passion of mine when we're so lucky to be in an industry that we absolutely love online.
00:42:44
Speaker
And I know that sounds cliche and don't get me wrong.
00:42:46
Speaker
There are stressful days, stressful moments.
00:42:50
Speaker
But, you know, how lucky are we?
00:42:52
Speaker
I'm sitting in my office looking at all the pieces that I have as part of my stock.
00:42:57
Speaker
And it's a thrill, you know, it's just I just pinch myself really.
00:43:01
Speaker
And I really I don't want to sound cliche, but it's it's the truth.
00:43:05
Speaker
Well, thank you, Oliver.
00:43:07
Speaker
This has been great fun.
00:43:09
Speaker
I really enjoyed it.
00:43:11
Speaker
It's been really lovely.
00:43:12
Speaker
I really appreciate you asking me to come on.
00:43:16
Speaker
You're a great friend and I'm obviously very fond of shrub stars as well.
00:43:20
Speaker
And in general, it's lovely to talk about silver and sort of spread the word.
00:43:26
Speaker
And listeners, if you'd like to get in touch with me directly, you can do that by email at CuriousObjectsPodcast at gmail.com or find me on Instagram at Objective Interest.
00:43:36
Speaker
To leave a rating or a review on the podcast app that you're using to listen now, that helps new people to find the show.
00:43:43
Speaker
Yeah, but don't need a bad rating.
00:43:46
Speaker
Yeah, don't be like Oliver and diss the podcast.
00:43:51
Speaker
As always, you can see pictures of the shaving bowl and other relevant objects at themagazineantiques.com slash podcast.
00:44:00
Speaker
Today's episode was edited and produced by Sammy Delati with social media and web support from Sarah Bellotta.
00:44:07
Speaker
Sierra Holt is our digital media and editorial associate.
00:44:11
Speaker
Our music is by Trap Rabbit and I'm Ben Miller.