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Pete Dryden
867 Plays1 year ago
Pete Dryden is a portrait photographer based in Oregon.
When he’s not deconstructing the world of photography he’s plotting ways to enter into it.
Enter the world of Something
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Transcript
Introduction to Podcast & Guest
00:00:01
Speaker
You are listening to Something Rather Than Nothing, creator and host Ken Volante, editor and producer Peter Bauer. Hey everybody, this is Ken Volante with the Something Rather Than Nothing podcast and I got photographer artist Pete Dryden here on the show from Albany, Oregon. Pete, welcome to the show.
00:00:31
Speaker
Thank you, Ken. Yeah, it's a pleasure to be able to chat with you. I've been able to see your photography and talk with a mutual friend Abe over there, Browsers Bookstore, which is the official bookstore of the Something Rather Than Nothing podcast for all your book meets.
Balancing Photography and Cabinet Making
00:00:49
Speaker
Pete, you sent over a bio and I was just deeply intrigued and I wanted to start there. So Pete's a portrait photographer based in Oregon.
00:00:58
Speaker
When he's not deconstructing the world of photography, he's plotting ways to enter it. And I couldn't be more interested from what you're saying there. Let's talk Pete about the world of photography for you and what you do creatively as a photographer. Can you tell us about that? Well, yeah. I mean, I really love taking pictures of people.
00:01:27
Speaker
as like portrait photography is something that once I really got into it and got more familiar with it and knew how to capture people with a camera and realized that I could bring out moods and bring out like
00:01:51
Speaker
expressive expressions from people. Yeah, yeah, it was it was exciting to me because it was like it felt like it just kind of came natural that it was something that I felt like I'm good at this and I like doing this and I like meeting people. And this is a great way to do that. Yeah, yeah. The politics of photography
00:02:16
Speaker
is hard. It's a lot of self-promotion. It's a lot of, you know, work. I never really minded doing paid jobs with people. I mean, some of them like my wife, my wife also does photography and we did weddings for eight or nine years and
00:02:43
Speaker
You know, I really enjoyed doing weddings because it was that one day of people's lives that you got to be a part of and you got to be behind the scenes with everybody, especially the bride and groom or whoever was getting married. And I loved that. But I also, you know, the lead up to the wedding, taking pictures of people and the editing process.
00:03:13
Speaker
was also something that was like, I don't love doing this every day. I just love taking pictures of people. And so I kind of gotten this funk of like, well, how do I, do I want to do this full time or do I just want to do, uh, you know, work with people I know or I'm familiar with or people I want to meet and take pictures of them. Um, which that's what I ended up choosing.
00:03:42
Speaker
uh,
Photography in the Social Media Era
00:03:43
Speaker
because my, my daytime job is a cabinet maker. So my Monday through Friday, you know, that's, that's what I'm doing full time. Um, and photography is something that, you know, it's a hobby, but it's also something that's just in my blood to do. Yeah. And I, I, um, so I guess I'm kind of getting off track, but, um, the,
00:04:09
Speaker
The idea of deconstructing photography is, it's kind of a love-hate relationship because especially now when everybody, everybody's kind of a photographer. And when I get on social media and I see how photographers are gaining, you know, followers and attention, it's,
00:04:37
Speaker
It turns me off because I feel kind of like I don't want to do that. I don't want to get in that rat race of always trying to get new people, new followers, new attention. I want to find a space where I can just take pictures of people and craft my skill better, but do it on my own time and enjoy it. And, um,
00:05:08
Speaker
and try to find a way to represent me through my photography that doesn't represent something that's trendy or un-genuine, I guess.
00:05:27
Speaker
Yeah. Does that kind of answer your question?
Art and Photography's Emotional Power
00:05:31
Speaker
Yeah. And I think there's a lot there. And by deconstructing, I really connect to the idea of going into it and what is wrong or what needs correction in what you do. About photography itself,
00:05:54
Speaker
I had a conversation just recently with Charles Mulford, he's a sculptor, and really just dropped back into photography again. It's been a theme of the show. I've had Seamus Murphy, who's the photographer for my favorite musical artist, Polly Jean Harvey.
00:06:13
Speaker
And a lot of different photographers, and I love going into that and into those worlds. I wanted to ask you something because, and it's one of the big questions, but thinking about it in terms of photography. I wanted to ask you what art is. And the context, I'm not gonna speak too much, but the context of it is history of photography when it first comes up,
00:06:42
Speaker
the idea is that painters will disappear, right? Because painting a lot of time was that, you know, what other way can you depict or record reality? It was part of the job, part of the job of the painter, right? And with the advent of photography, there's always been this tension, I think, between popular use, like what is art, everybody's a photographer, but some people, you know, like,
00:07:08
Speaker
I wanted to ask you, and you can think about it in the context of photography, but what do you think art is? I mean, my initial response is that art is, not to be cliche, but it is in the eye of the beholder, I think. I think that art is an expression and
00:07:37
Speaker
an illustration of what it is to be human, what it is to be alive. You know, it's a reflection of the artist. And I think that art is also made to be shared. It's made to be viewed. And so art, you know, photography is kind of a simple one because everyone has a camera.
00:08:02
Speaker
And every, you know, a lot of people are on social media and so they can share these pictures. And I feel like the best photographers, you know, they really bring out a lot of emotion in their pictures. And I think that, you know, that that's always inspired me of like, how do they do that? You know, there's a lot of technical things. There's lighting and, you know, film over digital or things like that. But
00:08:33
Speaker
It's also something that is a well-crafted exercise that people are doing. And I think that all art forms, it's the same formula. It's people finding something that they're really passionate about or they're really interested in or they're curious about.
00:08:56
Speaker
and pretty much obsessing over it until it's second nature. It's just, it's how they see it. And then in the process of getting better at something, you kind of open up new areas in your head to look at that art in a new way, which then makes you realize like, oh, there's no end to
Artistic Growth and Challenges
00:09:24
Speaker
You don't just become a great photographer and that's it. You become a better photographer and that just makes you realize there's more areas of your trade that you need to get better at. And that's a challenge that I feel like as a photographer, it's like, well, that's, that's inspiring. Like I really liked that idea that you can't just, you don't just get that way and then it's done.
00:09:51
Speaker
it's just a continuation of like, I gotta keep building because now when I look at pictures that I've taken 10 years ago, I'm like, there's always something that's like, that's distracting. Cause if I was to do it now, I wouldn't do it that way. But I think that a lot of artists would say the same thing. If they're a musician, you know, they probably hear things that they did 20 years ago and they're like, oof,
00:10:21
Speaker
I just, I don't play the guitar like that anymore. It sounds rough and I don't like it. But I didn't know what I liked and what I didn't like, except for the fact that I kept doing it and I kept failing and trying new things and experimenting. And that, you know, that turned into another channel for them to express themselves through.
00:10:48
Speaker
And I feel like art is a good example for that. It's a channel for expression and it's a channel for representing who you are as a person and how you see the world and how the world makes you feel. And I love that about art. I just think art's cool.
00:11:17
Speaker
I didn't really think of myself as an artist until I was, you know, probably in my mid twenties, where I kind of started thinking. I like to dabble in a lot of different arts, you know, I like painting, I like drawing and, you know, in, in cabinetry, you know, you, you learn how to do an art form because you're learning how to build things out of wood. And I like that. I like photography.
00:11:48
Speaker
But what I really started like fixating on was like, I don't want to just be known as a photographer. I want to build a life where it's like, I'm an artist. It's what I do. And yeah, and I take pride in that. And so I don't want just one title. I want many titles. And as much as I kind of went off on the idea of perfecting your art,
00:12:16
Speaker
by just doing it day in and day out. You can do that in so many different areas of art. And I feel like it just expands your awareness of the world. And for some people, I'm sure it works really well just to focus in on one art form. And they do really well at it.
00:12:44
Speaker
You know, I've thought about that, but that's also why I deconstruct photography and the photography world, because it's like, I can't keep up with that. I just, you know what I mean? So it makes it hard to like, I want to stay in it. I want to keep doing it. I just, you know, when I first got into photography, there was a
00:13:10
Speaker
a photographer that I really admired. His name is Robert Hamilton. He's in Portland. And I was talking to him, you know, and he had already been established and I was, you know, kind of trying to learn what I could from him because he was established in Portland. And so, you know, being in Albany, it was kind of like, well, I mean, that feels like the direction I need to go.
00:13:39
Speaker
And he had said like, well, you know, what I've seen is that every up and coming photographer has their moment and they get attention because they're bringing something new to it. And all photography has kind of a trend of how the editing process works with its tones, its shadows, its lighting, and
00:14:09
Speaker
And so don't jump ahead is what he was saying. Don't try to find what's popular just to make a name for yourself. Just do what you do. And now that I'm talking about other photographers, there was another photographer, a friend of mine, his name is Luke Olson, and he's also based in Portland. And he really had a large,
00:14:39
Speaker
And he left a big impression on me of just doing what he wanted to do, regardless of how much attention he was going to get. And he's always done that. He's just always been a photographer that, you know, he has a vision that's very unique and
Social Media's Impact on Art Perception
00:14:58
Speaker
his editing and his gear is very specific on how he wants to represent his art.
00:15:08
Speaker
And I just always admired that. And then when I looked to other popular or trendy photographers of the time, then it was kind of like, well, they're popular. They're getting a lot of attention, but I don't feel like they're expanding all of their capabilities and they're honing in their unique voice or vision. They're just doing what the public wants to see.
00:15:39
Speaker
Yeah, if that makes sense. Yeah, I think I find that too, like, thinking about the artist, I was talking this recently with my partner Jenny about like, when you're interested, you know, in the creative realm, and you experience this, you know, where you spend your time, where you put your attention,
00:16:01
Speaker
Where you allow some space to come up for your particular vision. I find that such a challenge nowadays for creatives and the idea is to Have some time and space to to go after the world in in your way because you are right There's this massive massive trend like I adore Instagram I adore Instagram because of the visual the visuals are just very stimulating for me. It's appealing in that way I
00:16:30
Speaker
but that also goes the direction that you and I are aware of, of this speed and greater entropy of, like we're, I look at photos, absolutely brilliant of photos on Instagram that are just kind of like posted like that. And I'm like, sometimes think does anybody realize this is a fucking gorgeous,
00:16:55
Speaker
like photo, and it's the speed type of thing, you know? I mean, we're all vying for attention, but it's the speed. Like, how do we flip through three brilliant photos quickly? Like, how do we, you know? And I feel that a lot with it. And so it's like that space to be creative and to do it in your own way.
00:17:22
Speaker
There's so many things. There's so many visuals nowadays, too, I think. Like, one of the things that fascinates me, Pete, maybe you could tell me what's going on in my head.
00:17:32
Speaker
I became deeply fascinated when I started painting, and this is applied to photography as well, is that you obviously have a painting or a photograph, but then going deeper into details of it, you might see those with painting or details with the photography, I realized within this movement, how many discrete
00:17:54
Speaker
pieces even within the shot or the painting that there are these kind of worlds within it when you look at it that way and sometimes I feel there's almost like a near infinite way of looking at one object and closer so like spending a lot of time and seeing uh what's in there so that's part of my
00:18:16
Speaker
process of connecting with the art. And the tension is that quarter second, right? I want to see a hundred photos, not two, like not two. I want to know what's happening visually for 75 people, not one. And there's that huge inertia towards that which makes it, you know, in this driver
00:18:39
Speaker
How do you see the photo? How do we stop and hold the thing itself?
Philosophical Discussions on Art
00:18:49
Speaker
That's social media, but obviously a photo can be still observed in a gallery or sheared and otherwise.
00:18:58
Speaker
Do you think the part of the deconstructing you're talking about is maybe the speed that we see visuals at or the bombardment or is it something connected to that? Yeah, I mean, that's a good point. I mean, and I think when you bring in the social media aspect,
00:19:21
Speaker
because when i think about going to a gallery or something where it's like it's a you know someone's collection of photos you're going to immerse yourself in that space and you're going to be patient and you're gonna walk through and read anything that's there and you're going to absorb it as much as you can and it's all within the the you know the umbrella of who the artist is and it could be any art whereas social media you know
00:19:52
Speaker
It's demanding. It's everything is demanding your attention, which is also why, you know, there's, there's photographers on social media that, you know, they, they, they've done really well at doing a shock. Um, um, I, I just always kind of go back to the fact of like sex appeal is a, is a, is something that photographers are always going to use. You know, I mean, I'm guilty of it too.
00:20:22
Speaker
Um, but then there's also, there's stories that can be told through photography. There's ideas that can be told through photography that may, because we live in 2023, they may include sex appeal. But one of the things I'm trying to get at is like, well, I don't want them to just be sex appeal.
00:20:49
Speaker
I don't want it to just be something that titillates the viewer into stopping and looking at this, you know, half naked man or woman or whatever and not realizing that the artist behind the image is trying to tell more than just grabbing your attention. And I think with social media, everyone on social media is trying to grab your attention.
00:21:19
Speaker
And so there's a lot of really, you know, amazing artists that aren't getting any, you know, I mean, they get their share of attention, but they're, and I feel like, um, it, that's, that's an important thing to consider is that when you're in that world of social media and you're trying to find, um, content that's, that's inspiring to not just, you know,
00:21:49
Speaker
fall prey to the clickbait, which I feel like social media engines are just notorious for. And yeah, and did that kind of answer a little bit? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely. And I think in photography too, and you know, talk about sex appeal or I mean, there's an intimacy in photography that's always been there, right? At least the way I experienced the intimacy of
00:22:18
Speaker
You know, there's like a recorded image in the private space private bodies all those type of things in that intimacy that All of a sudden you're you're connected in a closer tough to describe way yeah, because because of that and so you you're you know, you're in it and um
00:22:38
Speaker
Yeah, there's something about a photo that can capture or even in hinting behind the story when you see in the background. What was the story five seconds ago in your brain? Like I think I know what happened five seconds ago that led up to
Evolving Role of Art and Collaboration
00:22:52
Speaker
this. Yeah. I wanted to ask you the big philosophical question as well, which is just something rather than nothing question is.
00:23:03
Speaker
And I ask it of creatives, you know from a philosophical bent Whatever way you want to go after it. But why why is there why is there something rather than nothing? In what context
00:23:24
Speaker
One of the ways, yeah, so this is the way it's usually answered. So let me do the context. So in asking the question, why is there something rather nothing historically go back philosophically to, why is there anything, right? So the idea is that there's a cause, right? So where's the first cause? You know, is it a God, explosion, big bang?
00:23:51
Speaker
And one of the ways I had the question within creativity is that I have a hunch a lot of times that artists are creating something from nothing. So one of the things is why do we exist in this way? The other counterpoint
00:24:19
Speaker
where I've answered, just to give you the context, is what is the meaning of something and nothing. When I say nothing, when I'm answering this question, because it flipped back on me, I view the nothing in a Buddhist type of context where it doesn't mean that there's no thing. It's kind of that the thing is
00:24:42
Speaker
Devoid of an inherent existence that there's no there there behind it that there's phenomena, but there's no There's no underneath So in the context of the creative as an approach to you can even go after it is Do you create? something from nothing I'm not sure. I'm not sure that it's it's it's
00:25:12
Speaker
I mean, it kind of makes me go back to the idea of, as an artist, you create something that is a representation of you. And so it didn't come from nothing. It came from the life you've lived, the experiences you've experienced, the people you've met, the ideas that people have put in your heads or the ideas that you've come up with on your own.
00:25:43
Speaker
But those ideas came up from somewhere, you know, and they developed over time so that you could articulate them sometimes just to yourself so that they made sense. Yeah. But but that that is I guess that would be a short answer to the question is that I think that I think that
00:26:10
Speaker
Nothing is created in the art world from nothing. I think that it's all built from a foundation of- Like generative, like generative of sorts maybe. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah. Is the role of art different right now?
00:26:38
Speaker
I asked that is I asked the question is is the role of art more important has it changed or is art just just Arting like it always has even today. I Don't I think I think art actually In 2023 and especially in the last, you know six seven eight years Yeah, I You know
00:27:07
Speaker
I remember when, when Trump became president. Yeah. And, uh, there was, uh, a page that I followed. I can't remember. I can't remember if it was, uh, I think it was, uh, in decline. Are you familiar with in decline? Yeah. Yeah. And they had said, um, you know,
00:27:29
Speaker
regardless of how you, you know, see Trump, the next four years is, is going to definitely create a lot of art. And, and that just resonated with me. It's like, it's gonna like resonate with people and their, their views and expressions and opinions are going to come out and they're going to get shared.
00:27:56
Speaker
And I feel like ever since then I've kind of looked at art in that way of like, it's not that it's, you know, your role as an artist to, you know, uh, share your views on what, on what the world is. But I think that art will always have a space for that with people, whether it's in, you know, Russia or it's in China or it's in the U S.
00:28:24
Speaker
art just always reflects what life is doing to people. And so I think now more so than ever, because we have access to so much art all day long, we can just go down all these rabbit holes of like, well, let's see what this art's gonna do and what it says and how it expresses itself. And
00:28:52
Speaker
So yeah, I, and it's kind of fun to me. It's like kind of exciting to think that, okay, that's, that is never going to go away. That is always going to be here and that's, that's always, you know, that's going to be a consistency in our lifetime that is always going to continue to inspire more people.
00:29:14
Speaker
Yeah, yeah, it's it's it's interesting. I I really like the the were you talking about the article and the art over the next few years going back uh, yeah uh to 2016 and I think for me I I think about in the context is like I can't think of Like when it comes to politics and everything culturally a more artless time, right? Like yeah, it is it is it is It's tough to find places where there's no fucking art but yeah, like in that way it was
00:29:44
Speaker
art almost was a word that wanted to be squashed out, or the ideas. So the counter to that, I really connected with that point of being like, all right, well, the artist is certainly gonna have something to say.
00:29:59
Speaker
Yeah, and particularly in artless times, because I would suspect in general that the hunger, the hunger goes deeper for the people wanting. And that's one of the things I found just
00:30:15
Speaker
When I've looked at societies that have tried to deeply regulate art or have art serve larger purposes, I understand the context within the Soviet Union and China of the idea that there's been all this bourgeois art and there needs to be art from the people. I'm down with that idea and I believe that there's a lot to that. However,
00:30:38
Speaker
culturally and societally, there's these massive fatal flaws that I see in the regulation of art, of what art is supposed to be. It's almost inherently doomed to fail. Let's make art by policy. It's never going to happen that way, and I believe that's one of the dynamics where
00:31:02
Speaker
Like even in society, like in the cultural revolution in China, right? Like artless times. Artless times. There's supposed to be art everywhere in a celebration of workers, but in a certain sense, artless and directed towards a different end.
00:31:21
Speaker
Yes. Wow, I went off a little bit there. I do it all the time. I wanted to ask just a couple more questions in the last one talking about where people can find your stuff, but I just wanted to ask you about
00:31:40
Speaker
You know working with your partner Jamie and working as a creative Collaboration and just you know what just what what that's what that's like for you that type of intimacy and working together and creating together Yeah, well, it's great. It's you know art comes very naturally to both of us and It you know
00:32:09
Speaker
I mean, Jamie is my soundboard for fine tuning my visions that I want to make with art. And it's very helpful for me to have somebody who offers that and who is, you know, she genuinely knows me and she understands me and she knows what I deal with
00:32:38
Speaker
by being an artist. She knows how I can get off track and how I obsessive and I get crazy. But she keeps kind of a steady hand of allowing me space to get all these ideas out and then cherry pick the good ones.
00:33:03
Speaker
and put them in front of me so I can focus on, okay, that's my vision. That's where I wanna go. And I think that's something that I've learned and I think that both of us do that for one another. And as artists, it's like, oh man, that really helps because I think of some people that don't have that. And it's like, oh man,
00:33:33
Speaker
It's overwhelming to be an artist, but to have a support system around you, because there's Jamie and there's other friends of mine that they also know me. And they also know ways of trying to keep me on track and keep me focused on what they know inside of me wants to get out. Yeah.
00:34:03
Speaker
And I think that, you know, that's just important for me. I don't know if maybe it doesn't matter for other artists and maybe that's just me, but sharing something that's art with, for Jamie and I, that's something that we never get tired of. And it's something that we both really like. And it's something that we can both encourage and share with each other.
00:34:33
Speaker
Um, which, you know, we spend a lot of time together and it's something that we can always explore together. And that's, that's fun. So I really enjoy that. Yeah. I, I, I, I love that. My partner, Jenny and I kind of, uh, think in our terms and try to live in our terms and, uh,
00:34:55
Speaker
Yeah, it's a powerful connection. So Pete, I wanted you to let folks know where to find your photography, find your art, and really appreciate you and your great, great photography and Jamie's work as well. So tell the listeners what to do.
00:35:23
Speaker
Yeah, well, primarily I'm on Instagram. That's that's both my both Jamie and I are both on Instagram. Primarily my. What's it called profile? Yeah, I like handle better, but yeah, profile. Yeah, is at Pete Dryden Photography. And my. My wife's is at Sugar Canucci.
00:35:53
Speaker
Her name is Jamie Dryden. So if you come to Pete Dryden Photography, you'll find yourself pointed in the right direction for her. And then we also have a website that's www.petedrydenphotography.com. And I also use Facebook. And so that would just be Pete Dryden. Great, great.
Community Value and Collaboration at Browsers Bookstore
00:36:20
Speaker
Yeah, thanks for letting us know. I checked out the website and, of course, see your Instagram. I really love the photography and I love the All Albany Oregon podcast here, folks. Albany to Albany. It's great to chat with you and a lot of connection here in the arts organizing in the town.
00:36:43
Speaker
And, you know, just bringing out the artist from everywhere, but really love the connection. And it's like, I think about it in terms of organizing with Abe Richmond over with a browser's book, that fantastic bookstore. We talk arts all the time. And he shares, you know, your stuff, Pete. And then you just kind of keep going with talking about art because,
00:37:13
Speaker
I don't it's it's a great pleasure to talk about and it's great pleasure to talk to you. So I really appreciate it Pete Well, thank you Ken. I appreciate you have this podcast. It's it was fun and it was a pleasure to be on it and Yeah, I want to plug Abe too because I'm gonna go to the bookstore after we finish this interview Yeah, let's talk about Abe for a minute or two. Yeah, I'm talking about a talk did talk about even I'll talk about it well Abe is the
00:37:41
Speaker
him and his wife, Tierra, they're the owners of a browser's bookstore in Albany. And I love it. I love Tierra. I love both of them. I love that they're owners of a local bookstore and they, they offer us,
00:38:06
Speaker
so much space for people who love literature, for people who love to learn, for people that just like to talk about books. They offer a space that is so comforting and warm and accepting. It's been great to get to know them. I love books. I'm always reading books.
00:38:34
Speaker
having a connection with somebody who owns a bookstore is like, well, that's ideal. I mean, that's a wealth of information that I've never get tired of. And that would be mine. I have nothing but good things to say about Abe and Tierra. Yeah, there's not enough talk about bookstores, so we'll indulge ourselves. Yeah, a browser's bookstore, you know,
00:39:05
Speaker
It's moved into such a smart place and a welcoming place. An intellectual place and sometimes where we feel that there's a dearth of it, right? We see a lot of small cities, small towns.
00:39:22
Speaker
you know, some places the book, the independent bookstores are closed, they use bookstores are closed. How do you get an old copy of Ethan Fromm? And so, yeah, it's Amazon, but I was talking to Abe yesterday about this because I stopped by and I said, when somebody's into bookstores, like you're a bookstore person and you're there, you're going through the bookstore and it's
00:39:47
Speaker
My mind is just going. I'm going into each of the different areas. I'm interested in a lot of topics. I'm like, okay, I'll go over to literature for a little while and think of a name, look for that one, and then the graphic novels. And it's just a lovely experience, and it's just a couple blocks from
00:40:06
Speaker
where i am so you know even during the day like if i do my union worker stuff i stop in hey i was going to chat for five minutes or whatever maybe grab a book
00:40:18
Speaker
And so it's smart and we need a smart place here. But I've also talked to Abe about, you know, because I'm creating and I see him as a creator and creating this space and talking about, yeah, all right, let's pull things in and like maybe a small festival, have it be literate, have it be good food, have it be open, because we all we all need this. And having a conversation like that in and thinking those type of terms is what a bookstore, a great bookstore,
00:40:47
Speaker
Is about I ordered a new book by Daniel Claus called Monica yesterday from from Abe and great folks and It's really nice the in the organizing bit to be able to to connect these this way and to celebrate good things to celebrate your photography to celebrate that Albany, Oregon
00:41:12
Speaker
has a nice used bookstore where you can go on hang and I'm, you know, we're probably going to be there at the same point randomly in the next few weeks at the same time and be like, Hey, we made it over at the same time. Yeah, yeah. Abe is a future podcast guest, I think of the multiple conversations we've had is just been okay, you know, just kind of hone in the topic or I already told them
00:41:38
Speaker
I worked in a bookstore when I was younger. And so I know the, you know, the retail aspects of the life, but you know, he's got a couple hours to talk about bookstores at any time if we want, because we got to protect them and honor them, particularly their small town ones. Right. Absolutely. Yeah.
00:42:03
Speaker
All right. Shout out and love to Browsers and and Pete and Jamie. Great pleasure chatting with you and probably bump into you over there Browsers Pete. Looking forward to it Ken. Thanks brother. Thank you.
00:42:32
Speaker
This is something rather than nothing.