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Manosphere & Online Dating: FDS Queens Don't Sweat It!
931 Plays2 days ago
What does it mean to be a woman - an FDS queen - in the era of the internet? How do we date and approach online dating as a strategy? What approaches do we take and what are the means by which we vet and protect ourselves? Patricia and Rose host a freewheeling discussion of life, love, and FDS tactics online and on the ground!
Are you interested in participating in a documentary series about being a woman in the world of the internet? Please reach out with an email to us and we will forward it along to the documentary crew!
contact@thefemaledatingstrategy.com
Also email if you want a PDF of the FDS Handbook!
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Transcript
Introduction & Personal Updates
00:00:05
Speaker
Welcome back, queens. Welcome back to the Female Dating Strategy, the meanest female-only podcast on the internet. I'm your host, Patricia. And I'm Rose, and we're so excited to be back with you. Patricia, how are you feeling this week?
00:00:19
Speaker
I'm okay. but It's hard for me to answer this question. I'm ah ah dealing with a recovering knee, but I'm doing a lot of physiotherapy and I will be better soon. Do you do a fair amount of swimming? Is that something you even have access to? Yeah, I swim once a week.
00:00:35
Speaker
Okay. All right. I'm glad to hear that because I think I remember you talking before about being in your swimsuit and like going to the club and... Yeah, definitely. Now I've totally accepted being like totally weird.
00:00:46
Speaker
I'm just a weird girl at the pool. I don't care. I'm weird girl at the gym. I'm weird girl at pool. I don't care. I'm on it. Embrace it.
Podcast Dynamics & Merchandise
00:00:55
Speaker
You know what? Honestly, i one of my dreams is to like have a t-shirt emporium, which is ironic.
00:01:00
Speaker
I never wear t-shirts, but everybody loves t-shirts. So I always have like fun, pithy expressions that I want to like you know capture. And one could be a really fun one with like FDS queen, aka weird girl. like I feel like that would just be a fun little...
00:01:16
Speaker
A little shirt to design. like I feel like we should be doing some merchandise at some point, but you know what? That's a topic for another day. Patricia and I were coming in here guns blazing. We were just having a really good conversation about all the things we want to address with you know FDS because we're just about six months in now to our newest iteration, Patricia, of just you and me.
00:01:37
Speaker
Delightful. I'm very pleased with how it's going. i think it's a really good, I feel like we've got a good dynamic. I really enjoy talking with you. It never ceases to amaze me how as soon as we get on we've got, we're just off to the races and we've got so much to discuss. And I think that's something that's really special. That's very sweet. i feel the same way.
00:01:56
Speaker
I'm delighted to hear that you feel the same way. And something we were talking about, Queens, and we want to open up this um invitation to you all.
Documentary Collaboration Inquiry
00:02:03
Speaker
By the way, we continue to respond to the emails that you sent for those who are interested in potentially guest appearing or even just providing some ideas. We're we're in the process of getting back to those. So thank you again for your patience.
00:02:17
Speaker
But what is even more exciting, or what is equally exciting, I should say, is that we have had a British documentary filmmaker crew reach out to us here at FDS. um They are looking to...
00:02:32
Speaker
to record like a four part series, ah like a live televised documentary series in four parts. And they want FDS to be one of the pillars of the four episodes. Now, this is something where i was saying to Patricia, I don't feel personally comfortable um relinquishing my anonymity due to some professional concerns that I have, but she potentially, Patricia, is interested in speaking with them on the record. And we also said that we would extend the invite to our listeners, which they were very excited about. We were saying that if any of you are interested um to speak with the British documentaries about FDS, those who believe in it, who date according to it, who try to live by it, um they would very much welcome you reaching out to us via Patricia and myself at the FDS email, and we would then connect you with the crew of filmmakers. So that is an open invitation to our queens if you would like to participate in this documentary process. Yeah, I think that would be really cool.
00:03:36
Speaker
Absolutely. Okay, I'm very excited. And can you say a few words about what the documentary is about, Rose? Yes, so it it in many ways, it's in response, I think, to the to the most recent Louis Thoreau documentary about the manosphere. um What the specific thrust of this documentary is, what it is to be a woman in the age of the internet.
00:04:00
Speaker
So how has the internet shaped being a woman in your life for good or for ill, for all of its, you know, for all of its glories and its gluttonies? What is it like to be a woman and then in the era of the online web? And I think it's actually a really interesting conversation to have because of course we've heard so much about how it's shaped men and current politics, et cetera. But oftentimes what I think is overlooked is like how much it has shifted the discourse for and by women amongst ourselves. I mean, I discovered FDS through the internet. Like that's how, that's how it came to my attention. And that's how i was able to participate and learn and grow and, It's been absolutely instrumental in in my development as a human being, but especially as a woman. And so I think it just makes sense that they would reach out to us. And after we had our initial sort of intake, our initial interview, they were like, man, we really think like at least one of the episodes has to be centered on FDS. But we need people who are willing to go on the record and like interview with us publicly if we're going to make this work.
00:05:04
Speaker
um Yeah, like in my line of work, I don't think it's any issue for me to get... I'm going to use the word docs, although I understand it's I'm choosing to become an anonymous. but um Yeah, so I'm basically saying...
00:05:20
Speaker
If it shouldn't cast a shade on you in your profession, like I'm an engineer, so, you know, I'm not a public
FDS Origins & Misconceptions
00:05:27
Speaker
figure or anything. ah So I think for me, it's fine. If you feel like for you, it's also fine to to be out there and you want to share your thoughts and you want to talk about things. Please let us know. It would be really cool. You'll basically be on the show with me, on the documentary with me.
00:05:45
Speaker
And I'm really excited. This is very, very cool. It's so neat. It's also a serious outlet. So we can't expect we can expect to be shown in a way that is ah nuanced and serious.
00:06:00
Speaker
Yeah, that's something that we've kind of struggled with. In fact, Patricia was reminiscing about how she discovered FDS because of the hit piece on Vice. Do you remember finding that? Was it through the internet? well it was ah It was an internet article, wasn't it, that Vice published? Yeah, I was literally searching for mating strategy after my bad breakup. I was like, how do I approach this whole thing? That's when I have found the Vice article. But you know what? Sometimes ah the critics of a movement... um kind of define it in a way that if the movement is strong enough, it takes it to its own, like it does not get weakened by it. An example that I really like is the impressionists, like those pretty pictures that everybody likes, the paintings.
00:06:43
Speaker
When they first had their art show, art critic came by and he wrote in the paper like um impressionist as used it as a slur, you know, used to describe that they're not serious artists.
00:06:55
Speaker
And then they took it. And we still know them as impressionists. I love that. So the Vice article was total trash, but indeed, ah it grew FDS a lot, enlarged it.
00:07:08
Speaker
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. so, again, i was saying to Patricia, like, this is two younger women who are spearheading this project. Mm-hmm. And they seem very passionate about it. And it was funny because, you know, at first like I was saying, you know, they weren't trying to trap. They were doing this sort of, you know, interrogatory journalism thing. Like, well, what does FDS say? And what are the rules of FDS? And this, that, and the other. And I was like, well, we have a lot of suggestions. We don't really have, like...
00:07:33
Speaker
Hard and fast rules. I said, oh, one of the rules we have is no low value men. They're like, well, what does that mean? Men who don't earn a certain amount and and who aren't a certain height. And i was like that none of that has ever been what we've talked about. i said, an example of a low value man would be a man who's porn sick.
00:07:49
Speaker
And they were like, well what does that mean? And so we went into that, right? And um then I use the example of how when Savannah was interviewed and in the lead for the article, they were like, you know, FDS says make men pay. And I was like, we're talking about financial iniquities, not like they should be punished or like there should be punitive measures taken against them, like make him pay, make him suffer. But it's pretty, you know, it's sort of slanted in a particular way that can wrongly lead to conclusions. But I think again, like when you're able to speak and have your thoughts recorded and your tone of voice, I think so much more is able to to get across than just like, Oh yeah, definitely.
00:08:28
Speaker
Right. Words on a printed page. And by the end they were like, man, it really does sound like FDS is just really kind of common sense. And I was like, yes, that's exactly what it is. You're like, yeah, babe. Seriously, 100%. Like it's just, you know, and I know comments, I call it uncommon these days, uncommon sense, because it's like, where did it go? But no, it's honestly, that's all we're looking at is like common sense ways of protecting yourself and caring for yourself and putting yourself first. Doing all the things that men have been taught to do their entire lives, generation after generation, we're finally like, hey, maybe we should do the same for ourselves. And we're met with this huge pushback, which I think just goes to show
00:09:07
Speaker
that many of the men are very well aware of these of these disparities and that's what they count on in order to keep their lives happy and easy. Well said. Thank you. so this is why i thought it was so interesting today that like unrelated, but Patricia had suggested last week, she's like, how about we talk about online dating? And i was like, yeah, like, how is it to date in today's era? Like, how do you meet men? How do you find people that you're interested in? And so we were talking about online apps and I was just thinking like, wow, how neatly does this dovetail with dating? The fact that this British documentary filmmaking crew, um the fact that they were like, what is it like to be a woman in today's era of the internet? It just seems so perfect because, I mean, that isn't that why FDS kind of came about? Because it was like, listen, there's so many there's so many games that men are running and there are so many playbooks that they're using. Like, what is our own answer to it? And I think that's a lot of how it came to be.
00:10:01
Speaker
but Sorry, I kind of lost it here. How what came to be? I think FDS came to be because of the internet and because of how much concerted effort had been used on the part of the Manosphere and like Gamergate guys who I think, and 4chan, et cetera, they were using the internet in order to sort of solidify and shore up their predatory exploitative practices towards women.
00:10:25
Speaker
And I think FDS was one of like the natural responses like, hey, what are how are we using the internet and social media in order to protect ourselves and look out for ourselves and make sure that we're putting
Insights on Online Dating
00:10:36
Speaker
ourselves first.
00:10:37
Speaker
Yeah, so like if I frame it as, I'd rather not frame it as reactionary, but indeed through that framing, it was the feminine answer, like literally female dating strategy on Reddit. Remember, FDS started on Reddit, which is a very male environment.
00:10:55
Speaker
ah But if I take it out of the reactionary reactionary frame, ah in and of itself, it's like the internet in its... Positive form is a platform for class solidarity or gender solidarity.
00:11:10
Speaker
And basically what FDS is saying is like men who don't live up to our just and basic standards, not basic, just standards, should be eliminated out of the gene pool. It is not our problem that some men are not able to perform on the level that we expect them to, which is like basic respect, effort, blah, blah, blah.
00:11:34
Speaker
And what FDS is saying is most men out there are not dating material for you. That's like the first and very important premise of FDS.
00:11:44
Speaker
And if I take that to online dating, It's the same. Ladies, everything that we're going to talk about today with online dating is just how FDS presents itself through this lens, because nothing is new. Most men out there are not dating with material all for you. And that doesn't change if you see them through your phone.
00:12:05
Speaker
It's still the same. Most of them are crap. Or most of them are not compatible for you right now. Let's talk about it with tiny bit of compassion for now. but For now.
00:12:19
Speaker
It's true because, I mean, this is something where if you get into, and you know what, I should include, do you actually have the PDF version of the FDS handbook, Patricia? Because I do.
00:12:31
Speaker
I should. I saved it. like I shared it with the British documentary crew. They were like, you have it. We've been trying to find it online. And I know when I went back to look for it recently, like i I could not find the link. Everything it's like, it's linkable to another page on the internet. So it is on the internet, but it's not like in one compilation, which is what I have for the PDF version.
00:12:55
Speaker
but my God, you have the PDF. That's very cool. Yeah, exactly. And so i'm but i'm thinking- feel like we're in the nineties. I love it. That's because that's why that was my instinct. Like back in the day, you know, when they had like zines for the first time, like, you know, back when the Internet was in its nascent form, a lot of underground, you know, guerrilla, et cetera, would use zines like electronic magazines to have their own to have their own.
00:13:24
Speaker
take, put out into the world. And unless you found it and then like downloaded it at the time, it could disappear at any moment. So I'm so glad that I actually had that same like reflex when it came to this handbook, because I was like, you know, I like reading online, but I also like having something that I can just kind of page through at will. And that's, so that's why i i downloaded it. So help me remember that we want to include the link to this download in the show notes.
00:13:47
Speaker
If whoever our listeners are, download this bad boy, like make sure we've got this spread far and wide so it can never be eradicated. But one the things... Just to say for those who don't know, sorry for cutting off, the handbook is basically a compilation of all of the, let's say like, how would you say, central, like, looking for something that's adjacent to the Bible.
00:14:10
Speaker
i don't know. Central tenets. The principles... Yeah, the central tenets of the Reddit page. It's basically really, really huge Reddit posts from the original subredd subreddit ah that was compiled into one text.
00:14:26
Speaker
And it's so good, man. This shit is so good. What's crazy, it's like it's so good it's still as pertinent now as it was back then. um and one of the things that they talk about, it's like if you're going to do online dating, which I mean, that's kind of where we're all at. Although, of course, we we recognize that it you should do so with extreme caution. But like let's be real. That's the era we live in. How else do we meet people is something Patricia's like, how do you meet people? Well, I have some ideas, but we'll get to those in a minute.
00:14:53
Speaker
i great If you're going to be dating online, going through apps, I think this handbook is more pertinent than ever because it really talks about like why, why sex shouldn't be had so easily.
00:15:06
Speaker
Why men will tell you anything and everything in order to, you know, sort of catch you early and keep you tied down, like how it's to their value and how it's to their benefit to like quickly get you to be their girlfriend. Like we, when I started with FDS, I thought it was a mark of honor to be a girlfriend.
00:15:26
Speaker
And now what FDS has taught me is like, it's an honor for them to be a boyfriend. It's an honor that you bestow upon him not the other way around. Although many men will still think- Hopefully it's mutual. Hopefully it's mutually beneficial. I don't know. Am I am i a huge romantic?
00:15:42
Speaker
Probably. No, I think that's absolutely right. I think you're absolutely right. I think I'm coming at it from the, this is what often, this is how many people- frame it in their own minds. But you are right. do I do agree with you though. like with you I do agree with your broader point and it's something that people may do even subconsciously. like Men will try to get you in the same way also that we sometimes try to get men without even trying to figure out if we want them or not.
00:16:08
Speaker
But I would argue maybe we are a little bit more susceptible. I know i was. I still am to an extent, although I'm a lot more savvy, of course. ah But yeah, sometimes somebody is just trying to to to get you.
00:16:23
Speaker
And that's okay. It's fair. All is fair in love and and war, right? But oh, God, that's bad. but in many Anyways. Yes, you still need to be discerning. You still need to be discerning. And we're basically talking about the undisnification of everything right about like just seeing it with a clear view. And if you tell somebody what your red flags are, like don't give them the instructions, because they will even if they don't need to, they will try to follow your guidelines just to get you because it's human behavior.
00:16:56
Speaker
Just keep your cards to yourself. Exactly. Exactly. i couldn't have said it better. And I'm so appreciative that you did say it like that. Because I think it's, you know, one of the things that FDN talks about that I had a really hard time in the beginning was it was like, don't tell a man what your ideal relationship or who your ideal man is.
Communication in Relationships
00:17:16
Speaker
Or even what you want or don't want or dislike because he will comply to that just because of the brain. That's how brains work. This is why I had such a hard time with it. I was like, wait, I thought we were supposed to communicate just communicate, you know, the rallying cry of like liberal feminism. Just communicate that you don't like it when he you know...
00:17:36
Speaker
rapes you anally, just communicate that it wasn't okay. I'm like, oh my God. So coming from that background, um I always thought that you just communicate what you want in a man and you just communicate what you want in a relationship. And that's how you meet on the same level. And like, you could decide if if that's who is compatible with you or not. To a certain extent, that's still what I think.
00:17:58
Speaker
But unfortunately, these are- To certain extent. right These are not the social scripts that tend to be followed, unfortunately. It's just to a much more limited extent. I think like to a much larger extent, people are the way they are and we just get to experience them, but we're not going to change them so so much.
00:18:17
Speaker
If somebody has good values, they have good values regardless of you. And you get to enjoy that, being close to them, being part of their lives. That's a good thing. But if somebody is a shitty person, he's going to be a shitty person. You're not going to change that.
00:18:31
Speaker
Or maybe shitty is a bit much, but like somebody disrespects women. like At his soul, he has issues with his mom. He hates women. He doesn't trust them. He sees them as danger.
00:18:43
Speaker
You're not going to change that. Yeah. Also, like as you mentioned, people tend to have these social scripts that we follow. Like people tend to do things ah subconsciously even. It's not even that they're that they're consciously doing it. But one of the things is that like men have been taught how to manipulate women and vice versa. Yes, women have been taught how to manipulate men, but we're not looking at it from this angle. We're looking at like how, when you're trying to get into a relationship, can you ensure that you actually end up in one that's that's equitable? And one of the things is understanding that like men will use whatever information you give them
00:19:21
Speaker
to craft and manipulate a particular kind of persona so that they get what they want from you, regardless if that's what you want or not. Okay, say more. So this is why it's so important that you're not like, well, I'm looking for, I want to get married in the next two years and I'm really hopeful to like have kids within the next four. And at that point, I'm hoping to have this kind of career. And I'm really hoping every bit of information that you give away is potentially useful as an as an arsenal for the other person to willfully misrepresent themselves.
00:19:52
Speaker
And to paint a picture finding of who they are that is not true. And because you want it to be true, often it's very easy to overlook even just like yellow flags, not even red flags, just yellow flags. Like if he's like, oh, yeah, I can't wait to find a place in the city. And you're like, wait, I thought we were like planning on moving out to the country and like... you know, having a chicken coop and three dogs and some goats.
00:20:15
Speaker
Sorry, I'm going off into what I would actually like with my own life. But you know what i'm saying? It's like, if if you don't give that away and he's like, man, I can't wait to live in the city and be close to like the stadium so I can go to all the soccer games every weekend. And you're like, wait, I thought like you were into camping and like going canoeing and, you know, staying at home with like a fire pit. That's what I want. That's what I like. Yeah. If you give this away, you're not able to be able, you're not able to listen as closely and really pick up on like what he's telling you as far as who he is and not what you want him to be for you.
00:20:46
Speaker
Does that make sense? I mean, you can still state things that you want, I guess, but i just I agree with you specifically that I prefer to say less about what I want and see how the person behaves. Because basically that's our job and it's not an easy job.
00:21:05
Speaker
But our job is to see how people behave and then make decisions according to that and not let our fantasies get in the way of reality.
00:21:16
Speaker
And that's not easy, but that is what we must do.
00:21:21
Speaker
Exactly. Like, let them show you who they are. i think that's one of the big things that FDS really impressed upon me. You know, I'm... Yes. I am a... I've worked hard to become an optimistic realist,
00:21:35
Speaker
But at my heart, I'm a dreamer, you know? And like nobody's more romantic than I am. And I've learned to cherish that part of myself. And I've also learned to like cherish it by protecting it and keeping it safe.
00:21:50
Speaker
keeping it safe Right. Because the more you give, the more freely you give that away, the more freely it can be abused. And I want to save it so that like, it's, it's still relatively untarnished and, and only with a few dings by the time I find that right relationship, if I ever do, as opposed to just like being beaten down and bloody and like despairing. You know what I'm saying?
00:22:12
Speaker
I know what you're saying. i i really feel that when you say that because you're basically saying I recognize that I'm a dreamer. I recognize that I'm a an idealist. I also recognize that this is not necessarily the way, this is not the way of the world and walking around in the world with your heart open and your palms like facing...
00:22:34
Speaker
to everybody is going to lead to a lot of pain. And I resonate with that. but it And I also love that you're you're not saying like, I don't like this part of me, I'm too naive.
00:22:45
Speaker
But rather you're discerning about when to let that chime. Yes, that's that's precisely. I'm so glad you're understanding what I'm saying. It's so it's so welcoming. It's so nice. I mean, I had to learn how not to be disdainful of that. I think i think a natural reaction to some of the slings and arrows of dating that I experienced initially led me to kind of...
00:23:08
Speaker
wanting to denigrate and downplay and reject that part of me. But then therapy and FDS helped me realize like, no, that's a really beautiful, precious part of my soul. And yeah in many ways, it's an honorable part of my soul. Like, I think it's something I should honor. It's not everybody who has that kind of like,
00:23:29
Speaker
pure dreamy love and adoration. you know It just means I have to be i have to be careful and cultivate for very select few. And that's why friendships mean so much to me because it's that's one of the avenues where I get to you like i be the dream friend and dreamer.
00:23:44
Speaker
treat them to what they want for their birthday and make, give them their present that nobody ever else saw to give them that they've always wanted. Like, it it's just as good for me to give that to my friend as it would be for, you know, a man in a committed relationship. And so these are ways in which I find outlets that are healthy, right? Because again, these are the same friends who will do the exact same thing for me. I mean, it's, it's not even outlets, expressions.
00:24:06
Speaker
yeah Yeah. I like it's a vice, you know? yeah True, true. Yes, I like that. Another way for me to express it. Yes. um So, you know, again, like FDS was helpful for me becoming just more pragmatic and
High Value Relationships
00:24:22
Speaker
realistic about things. It's like, it's not that the way I am is bad or wrong. It's perfectly fine. And in fact, maybe even admirable. However,
00:24:31
Speaker
as somebody who lives and moves in the world, these are certain realities and this is these are the sort of strictures I have to move with it, you know, um in order to find out but whether we're compatible or not. So that's one thing that was very helpful for me. It was like, you just sit back and let them show you who they are as opposed to like trying to over-communicate and over-express and like, you know, micromanage down to the nth degree how you were going to make this relationship happen because it's really not It's not just up to me. It's ah it's supposed to be a mutual process.
00:25:04
Speaker
Exactly. Exactly. Well said. And I think that's basically, it to an extent, that is the organizing principle of a lot of the other advice that we want to give here.
00:25:16
Speaker
um For instance, one of the things in dating at all, but in online dating too, like one of the main facets of online dating is that we just don't know the person at all. Like we're starting to know the person through dating them, which if you think about it,
00:25:32
Speaker
it's It's not a very common thing. no Like I think in the past, I remember like I've had friends and friends of friends and then like yeah i would start a relationship with one of them. But it's not always like, oh, I met this person. We went on a date, right?
00:25:51
Speaker
Exactly. We vetted through family and friends and social institutions and religious organizations and, and, and there was like a never ending list of ways in which they had to be vetted before they could even be introduced to you.
00:26:03
Speaker
yes Yeah, it's vetting too. But even if we put that aside, it's just somebody that I mean, it goes into vetting too, but it's just somebody that you actually know very little about. And it's sometimes easy to create a fantasy around somebody's profile or around the beginning of your conversations.
00:26:19
Speaker
Sometimes you get really excited about somebody just from just from this profile. And that's okay. Like it's not something bad. But I'm going to refer to something that you were just talking about, about your, um I'm just going to call it idealism or romanticism.
00:26:34
Speaker
You know what I heard and what you were talking about? What? I heard you not identifying with it. Meaning it's not all of you. It is a part of you that you can cultivate, chaperone, protect let shine or or let it be more dormant.
00:26:53
Speaker
You know what I mean? It is something that you acknowledge, but it's not 100% who you are. And I think that's a big thing. Wow, that's such a... you get my drift? I do. That's so insightful. that's such a You're such a careful listener, Patricia. My goodness.
00:27:08
Speaker
Aw. I'm impressed. i really But that's something that maybe even I hadn't caught is that, yeah, I don't, I think I overly identified as being romantic, especially in like my early career as a professional musician, you know, like if I'm going to be a musician, I have to feel everything. Yeah.
00:27:23
Speaker
But as I've gotten older and wiser. That sounds exhausting. was. It was exhausting. It was. It was so, so tiring. Oh, my gosh. It never ended. Like the drama, you know, and now i'm like drama is the last thing I want. I'd like I want security. I want certainty. I want peace and calm. And and again, I think that's part. It's partly been just the maturation process of me as a human being. And it's also been a lot of therapy and it's also a lot of FDS. You know, we're not just one thing. And that's one of the things that leveling up and being a high value woman.
00:27:57
Speaker
Again, this was something that the British documentary crew was like, well, what does it mean to be a high value woman? And I was like, it means you only ever accept respect and, and parody from whomever is in your life.
00:28:09
Speaker
And that can include family as well. In fact, I think that's where it often starts is like, you know, when I stopped accepting disrespect from my family, it's when I stopped expecting, accepting disrespect in the dating pool, right? They, to me, they were almost the same. You become allergic to bullshit once you try to start to train that muscle. Yeah.
00:28:27
Speaker
Exactly, exactly. And so but i think part of being a high value woman is understanding like nobody is just one thing, you know, as Walt Whitman said, we i contain multitudes. That's a healthy way to be a human being is to contain multitudes.
00:28:42
Speaker
And to accept that they can be paradigmatic. it can be oxymoronic, you know? And that's, I think, part of the human condition is is we... It is an inherent part of the human condition and most beautiful things are paradoxical.
00:28:58
Speaker
Even if you think of yoga, like a good yoga asana is paradoxical. You're doing two things that are, or maybe three, that are just like, they are intrinsically ah opposite to each other, but you're doing it and it's beautiful.
00:29:14
Speaker
I'm curious. Tell me how they're opposite. How is an asana? Is it because you're relaxing while you're also ah exer I don't know. For instance, like ah the warrior positions, like your legs are facing forward.
00:29:26
Speaker
And then you turn only the upper body to one side.
00:29:33
Speaker
it is oxymoronic in a way, but you get the benefit from it. For sure. oh that's interesting. I like that i like that example. And if we pick up on on the dating stuff, but but like I think a lot of it is about um you know creating space within yourself and being less attached to things.
00:29:55
Speaker
Meaning like, for instance, I went on a date on Sunday and like the guy, like we texted the same day in the morning after and then he didn't text me again.
00:30:07
Speaker
And even this, like my the words that I'm using. And then he didn't text me again. And then I was noticing in my mind that because I'm trying to really like approach dating with less anxiety and just have fun.
00:30:22
Speaker
like Even when I met him, like he was really cute. And now I was like, I'm going to enjoy this for what it is, as long as it lasts. And that's it. like I don't want to make a mess out of it. And then because I was expecting a text,
00:30:34
Speaker
I was like, oh, why is he not texting me? dada du dadada Oh, and then my brain went to something that my brain does is, oh, I don't even like him anyway. He's too tall for me.
00:30:47
Speaker
like And this is and i was just I didn't try to fight it. i was just just trying to observe it. I was like, Oh, this is what my brain does. And how does that feel?
00:30:58
Speaker
Oh, that makes that relieves that uncomfortable tension of, oh, why is he not messaging me? Oh, I don't like him anyway. So it relieves the tension. Okay, so this is my inability to hold tension.
00:31:10
Speaker
And then that kind of dissolved. And then I was like, oh, but why why do I expect him to text me? like what is this Like, what is this expectation?
00:31:21
Speaker
Where is it coming from? Why do I need to be texted? every day? i don't know. Is it meaningful? Does it matter to me? like Ultimately, and really like i'm I'm feeling very relaxed about it now because ultimately, he either will text me and ask me out or not.
00:31:40
Speaker
And it's not even that there's nothing I can do about it. It's even less than that. It's just like, This is really meaningless. Like there is no reason for me to ask myself, why did he not text me? Like the question itself is erroneous.
00:31:56
Speaker
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. this I love how you walked us through this thought process of yours because i I also tend to be somebody who, again, and this is like maybe my nervous attachment or whatever the attachment syndrome things are.
00:32:09
Speaker
um anxious attachment. um It's very difficult for me not to grasp when I want something and to be overly attached to it. Probably part of my romanticism, you know?
00:32:20
Speaker
But yeah one thing one thing I've also interrogated is like, how often do I even need to be texting? Like, I'm not somebody who likes to text every day, even, you know? Like, why am I expecting something that I don't even necessarily like as a behavior from my own self, you know? I'll tell you Because internally, I'm feeling like if he doesn't text me, that means I'm a like a poor little ugly duckling left alone in the dark. oh This is why I'm expecting a text. It has nothing to do with the actual date.
00:32:55
Speaker
person, reality. It's my things that I'm carrying from childhood. And this is not saying like a guy can not text me for a week. I'm saying like, when he texts me, if he texts me, I'm going to see how I feel. But like this a priori getting offended is ah really coming from my ego, I think. And it's really not beneficial.
00:33:17
Speaker
And when I do it, I'm not having fun. Let me tell you. I am not having fun when I'm doing it. This is the antithesis. How do you say it? and thesis and thesis Antithesis?
00:33:29
Speaker
Antithesis. Yes. Such a lovely word. yeah to To what I want to experience. And it's like, it's it's all of this convoluted mess of being offended because I am not feeling good about myself. It's like,
00:33:47
Speaker
If I'm expecting a text and not getting a text, it's it it's making me insecure. It's making me feel insecure, but I was feeling insecure to begin with by waiting for a text. Why am I, I'm not even waiting.
00:34:00
Speaker
um so yeah, i didn I just really relaxed a lot. Pardon? This is such a good example. I think, I mean, i wouldn't be surprised if many of us have experienced this journey like you, ah Patricia, just because, you know, it so much like so much of it comes from our childhood self.
00:34:17
Speaker
And our childhood ego. And I don't mean Not childhood. I can also think about like experiences that I had as a young adult where I did get involved with men that did not give me the type of treatment that I deserved. And I stayed there anyway because I wanted to impose something on this connection that was not there.
00:34:38
Speaker
I was ignoring this respect. And then... Eventually, I was like, oh, this is actually not okay. But then I'm taking all of that and imposing it on something that may not be even good or bad, it's not anything.
00:34:55
Speaker
It isn't anything. It isn't anything. And I think that's kind of hard. This is probably why you and I both like listening to the Buddhists. It's like, it's so interesting how much value and weight we assign to things that ultimately are meaningless. And and again, I don't mean this in a negative or a positive way. I literally mean there is an absence of meaning. There's no there there.
00:35:16
Speaker
And yet our instinct or our conditioning is to, you know, get ourselves worked up, angry, anxious, ah insecure over something that wasn't even there. Yeah.
00:35:29
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. of Absolutely. Oh my gosh. It's just, it's so curious. And again, it's like, I'm so grateful for the, for the life that I've lived that's gotten me to where I am today. Because like you say, at this point, unless, unless i one thing I've really decided with dating is like, unless it's a date that I look forward to, unless it like,
00:35:49
Speaker
brings my heart um a lightness or a joy or anticipation, even if it's just like I'm looking forward to getting dressed up and and going out in the town. Like it can be something that basic, you know? Absolutely.
00:36:02
Speaker
had like really mediocre dates, but there were days like that I was feeling really hot and cute and I wanted to go out. I didn't really care with who. Yeah, exactly. I've got some really good outfits. I've got some amazing dresses and like shoes that I want to be prancing out and about in the town on And if like the date gives me an opportunity to put them on and to prance, then that's already a win for me, you know? Exactly. and and um You might also have a nice time optionally.
00:36:31
Speaker
Not sure. You can also have a mediocre time. but you know You know, it's like the the odds are, you know, it'll be from... having a mediocre time while you're looking fabulous. So, you know.
00:36:43
Speaker
Exactly. And I think that's one thing that like, again, FDS is like, unless this is the sort of mindset or head head space that you're in you tend to undersell yourself, undervalue yourself, ah let things slide that you shouldn't disrespect or just even dismissiveness. um And so part of just being able to date like a queen with a high value woman mentality is like, unless this is to your advantage, unless this is to your benefit, why would you do it?
00:37:14
Speaker
Definitely so. And this is the premise of the high value, whatever. High value man, low value man, it is the value that they're adding to your life. That's the premise, right?
00:37:24
Speaker
Have like leveling up, bring yourself to a place that you are happy with that you're, you know, of course, my life is not perfect, but I am doing everything that I can.
00:37:35
Speaker
and then from that point, a man can only add And all that we said now is still part of letting men earn their value in your world through effort and consistency, which is like a very, very basic FDS premise that also can be like put as continuously vet, like vetting is continuous, but this is the same thing.
00:38:02
Speaker
Like if somebody says, I'm looking for a relationship, but then he doesn't act like he's looking for a relationship, meaning he doesn't invest in you. He doesn't, ah I don't know, pick the place, pay for you You feel like they're inconsistent, you feel like they're absent.
00:38:19
Speaker
That's it. You know, this is it. People need to earn their place in your world. They need to earn your trust. They need to earn your investment.
00:38:30
Speaker
And that requires, please be with me here, not falling into the fantasy. And like we said before, being present with what is, is in reality, not something that you imagine. Yeah.
00:38:45
Speaker
Yeah. Let me, may I read a little bit from the table of contents from the FDS handbook? Of course. Will you indulge me, Patricia? Of course.
00:38:57
Speaker
but I'm actually just going to read from section four ah titled the dating theory section. And i'm going to read to you just if what these chapters are entitled. So chapter 13 for dating theory section.
00:39:13
Speaker
Dating should be a stress-free experience for you. Number one, stress-free. but Chapter 14, a man content keeping you in situationships is to be dropped, which ties into chapter 15. love the grammar there. Is to be dropped. talk to love anded but bye May he perish. And then this goes on to chapter 15, a high value male serious about you knows early on.
00:39:48
Speaker
Chapter 16, if he's not marriage-minded, he's with you for convenience. So part of the dating theory world is like understanding that any man who's content to have you be in situationships or who's there just for his convenience, you will know because you will sense that he's just not serious, right? And that's one of the things that sets apart a high value from every anyone else is that if he's serious, he'll know and he'll make sure you know that he is serious.
00:40:18
Speaker
Chapter 17, say no to pursuing men. That's his job. Chapter 18, and i always loved this. If he has to be dragged, leave him behind.
00:40:30
Speaker
but There are two more chapters in this category. Chapter 19, not move in with a boyfriend. This was a much contested point in the FDS. Yes, it was. There was a lot. There was at least every week ah a long and lengthy conversation, a heated one happening about, well, I already moved in with him. What does this mean? And it was like, well, you know.
00:40:52
Speaker
You've kind of said, you've set the, you've set the tone for the rest of that relationship. Is that what you want? Because if not, you're going to have to move out. um We're not going to get into that right now. Finally, and this is another one that really sent to me back in the day, chapter 20. He knows what he's doing. It's not ignorance. So many times we're just like, again, this is the just communicate ah erroneous theory. If you just communicate what you're doing wrong, you just find the right words, you know, he'll magically stop this behavior that causes you so much distress. This absolutely ties in with this. Let me tell you, sorry for my volume. Please. No, that does not work. It does not work like that. Nope. Let me tell you something. um I may have shared that the the bad relationship happened
00:41:41
Speaker
or the relationship that also had bad facets, ah that after that ended, I found FDS. What happened there? the dude I was with,
00:41:52
Speaker
Fucking like for real had a Madonna whore complex. After like, after we got more close, yeah there was a big issue around sex. I'm a very sexual person. It doesn't mean that I need to have sex three times a week, but I also can't live, cannot live with not having sex at all. And like, ah he hugs me, he holds me, he kisses me, he tells me he loves me, he takes me to his parents, he takes me to his friends, blah, blah, blah, blah. blue He does not have sex with me.
00:42:22
Speaker
I am dying, dying. Like that is, that created psychological damage for me that took me a while to heal from. And I told him, I cannot live like this.
00:42:35
Speaker
I cannot live like this. Crying. Told this to him multiple times. Multiple, multiple, multiple times. For listeners of the pod, you know how their relationship ended.
00:42:46
Speaker
ah He was abroad for a few days. um I threw all of his belongings to black trash bags. ah One of the very good moments of my life. Put it all in a spare room. um deleted him, like blocked him on every platform and not before I sent him a message saying like, we're done, like, I don't want to see you get your stuff.
00:43:09
Speaker
And i went to my friend's place for the whole day. And he had to email me because that was his only way to contact me. And when I got back home, saw that he left me a note.
00:43:21
Speaker
Would you like to guess what the note said, among other things? understand now, I understand now that you cannot live like this. I understand now. I see that this is hard for you now. I see now that you've broken up with me over this issue that we've talked about so many times. And I, so I admit it like he admitted that he has a psychological problem, and that he needs to see a therapist, and he never did.
00:43:52
Speaker
And when I broke up with him, he said, Now I understand that you cannot live like this. And you know what he did? He wants to see a therapist like the day after. after many, many months of me struggling.
00:44:04
Speaker
So that was a very painful lesson for me, which I understood later through FDS. Men don't understand words. They understand actions.
00:44:15
Speaker
That has been one of the main FDS tenets always. It's like, don't communicate. Move in silence. Let your actions speak for you. That is the only language men understand. That's what men do.
00:44:26
Speaker
When men get pissed off about something, they bottle up. They give you like... they I wouldn't say ignore, but this is like a very healthy behavior.
00:44:37
Speaker
When you don't like something, you pull away. This is a very natural, proper behavior. There's nothing wrong with that. I'm not saying giving silence treatment. I'm saying like, reserve reserve your attention, reserve your energy when something like that speaks volumes.
00:44:56
Speaker
That speaks volumes. that speaks volumes but It really does. It really does. And I, again, like, i think, This is one area where like, again, the disification of things is really obfuscated to women what's actually happening, which is they know you are willing to give him every benefit of the doubt and offer any and every justification for whatever his behavior is. They count on that.
00:45:25
Speaker
They count on it. And they count on your grace and your forgiveness because they know that that's how we've been conditioned. What we have failed to realize- is that that is part of their arsenal of manipulative tools.
00:45:38
Speaker
Yeah, you know, i wouldn't even go that far because ultimately men are quite simple. Maybe we all are, but I'm just going to speak about men. They're not that sophisticated.
00:45:48
Speaker
They're just like every other human. They try to get away with whatever they can. Like I even have girlfriends, one specific, for instance, that is a bitch when she knows that there are no repercussions and she can be very lovely and sweet when she wants to perceive be perceived as lovely and sweet.
00:46:07
Speaker
But everybody is like that. We all try to get away with what we can. And indeed, like you said, Rose, very wisely, this is something that is very important to understand that through not only just our so so socialization, but also our nature,
00:46:21
Speaker
We like to be
Empathy & Boundaries
00:46:23
Speaker
sweet. I like to be sweet. I like to have sweetness in my life. I like to have empathy in my life. It's nice. It's fucking nice. but but But indeed, if somebody relies on that, like, I'm just going to give like a random example.
00:46:38
Speaker
Somebody like a young person that doesn't have a job, isn't trying to get a job, is living like a very irresponsible kind of life, but he's living with his parents and he knows that he always has a fallback.
00:46:50
Speaker
He's not going to try to change his way because there is no incentive. There are no repercussions for negative behavior. Right. That's it. It's very simple. It's incredibly simple.
00:47:04
Speaker
i I like how you frame things, Patricia, because honestly, i need to hear that too. Like maybe, maybe I attribute, ah maybe I attribute to malice that which stupidity or ease might better be.
00:47:19
Speaker
It is. It They just do it because they can. They know that they they can recline on this very comfortable cushion of women usually being understanding. And you know what? That's not a bad thing.
00:47:32
Speaker
It's good to be understanding. It's good to give give leeway within relationships, not even romantic, but generally it is good. It's good to have free will. Free will is a very, very important commodity.
00:47:45
Speaker
But yeah, if you say once or twice that you don't like something, the third time you just walk away or you're like, you give the cold troller for a month, but not because you're playing a game, but because you are retrieving your energy.
00:47:59
Speaker
And that fucking speaks volumes for you, first of all, first of all, for you. I wanted to give, if you don't mind, few online relevant guidelines or suggestions for dating. Great.
00:48:12
Speaker
Great. This might be like very, ah very trivial, but like always meet at a public place. Never go to somebody's house. You're not a you're not pizza. Don't be delivered to somebody's house like your pizza. You're not pizza.
00:48:28
Speaker
Beware of time wasters, aka dopamine gobblers, men who only engage with you for attention and ego boost. Some people just like to chat. like Some people have they you have like a really engaging, really fun, playful conversation, and that's where it's at.
00:48:44
Speaker
like I've had it in the i guess like way before, where I would be like really frustrated, being like, This guy is so cute. We're having such a nice and like conversation. He's complimenting me. He's la, la, la, la.
00:48:56
Speaker
Why isn't he asking me out? Like he says that he's working in my city. He says, i make the best pizzas. You should try. And... and Don't be frustrated.
00:49:09
Speaker
Don't be frustrated. This is the same thing, right? Just like lean back and see what he does. If the conversation is going on for a long while and the person is not striving to meet you in real life, he might not be available. He might not be actually interested in pursuing something. And sorry to say, but he might not actually be very into you.
00:49:31
Speaker
And he just likes the attention. I'm sorry. Or there maybe be something else. But you know, don't ah don't torment yourself with like, why isn't he asking me out? You can ask him out if you want.
00:49:41
Speaker
And then you know, if he says, Yeah, that sounds great. Let's do that. Sometimes you can say that sounds good. And just, you know, leave it at that. And then if they ask you out, they ask you out. But like, you know, you can't just talk to people online forever without meeting them. It doesn't make sense. Don't do it.
00:50:00
Speaker
Hear, hear. Hear, hear. Dopamine gobblers. I like that so much. Be aware. ah My friend also said that, um a friend of mine also said that sometimes um men even like get off sexually, off talking to people, but that's, they have no intention of meaning in real life.
00:50:21
Speaker
The online interaction is the only thing that they want, you know,
00:50:27
Speaker
unrelated to you. Exactly. which is also kind of weird, but I guess also can happen. It does. It can and it does.
00:50:35
Speaker
Yes. Do you have anything to add to that? I would add that um you want to know somebody's full name, their full government name, and you want to give the date and time and place to a trusted friend along with the government issued name of your dater.
00:50:52
Speaker
um and you want to have somebody who calls to check in at a certain time, whether it's during the date or after the date, to make sure you made it home safely. ah Sorry, not sorry. This is how women have to move in order to ensure that, A, we're not ah assaulted or murdered, and B, that if we are assaulted or murdered, we have somebody following up to make sure we're identified and or located.
00:51:14
Speaker
Oh my God, that's awful. i respect that. I don't feel the need to do that, but also I live in a different country. Maybe in the US it is needed. I think in the US s it probably is needed, which is so sad, but yes. It is, I'm really sorry.
00:51:28
Speaker
I know, it's like, you know, that's why the whole conversation was like, you know, would the man or the bear? And all the women were like, the bear, you know, because it's very- Oh, come on. I think that's very intense and very hurtful too to men as a gender to say that you'd rather meet a bear than a man.
00:51:45
Speaker
i it Honestly, if i'm in the um if I'm in the woods alone with no one around, it might be 50-50 for me. But again, that's because I'm in the US and it's a really crazy radical place to be right now. um Yeah, also you sound like a badass. I think you can take the bear.
00:52:02
Speaker
Thank you. i could, 100% could. i certainly I would certainly have bear spray on me. You know what I'm saying? like i would I would be prepared to encounter a bear. Whereas if i encounter a man who has nefarious intent, you know I might not necessarily be prepared to like stand my ground or whatever. Um, so that's, I think the biggest thing for women in the U S I would say is making sure like at least somebody knows where you're going and when you should be backed by and that you're checking in to confirm that you made it home safely. I do think, unfortunately, that's a necessary evil.
00:52:34
Speaker
ah Um, with sorry that's okay. That's okay. Well, no, wait, I wanted to add something else to connect it also to the real world. And this is going to be a bit philosophical as you, you might've might expect from me. So,
00:52:48
Speaker
Basically, in one of the what I want to say is that the whole thing with dating apps is also like a little weird because we kind of outsourced this aspect of social life out of real life.
00:53:04
Speaker
We've outsourced it to dating apps, which is a little weird because I'm not that old. And when I was in my twenty s I used to go to bars and men would hit on me. Not saying like...
00:53:16
Speaker
that doesn't happen anymore or almost doesn't happen. Because it's, we're, of course, all of us are risk averse. And it's much less a risky to hit on somebody on a dating app, like the rejection is much smaller.
00:53:30
Speaker
And also, it's kind of like a positive feedback loop or negative feedback loop, if you like that the more every, all of this aspect of life is moving into dating apps, the less we do it in the real world, because it became kind of like, icky or weird, like, it's just like something that we do almost, almost never, like very seldomly.
00:53:52
Speaker
And I think that's a little weird, a little sad. um i don't know if i can i don't know if I can solve it. I'm also shy about talking to people IRL and like hitting on them.
00:54:04
Speaker
But I think I did do that like once or twice, and it's not that bad. And what I want to add to that is that like um sometimes when we're dating, there's like an openness, right? You're like off the market or on on the market. And i would like to maybe encourage us or to motivate us or even to inspire that this openness that we feel when we start dating app, when we start using a dating app, maybe we can um bring some of that to to regular life and just be a little bit more open.
00:54:38
Speaker
in in the wild. I couldn't agree more. And actually I've had a fair amount of success getting asked out in public. And I think it's because I am so open, Patricia. That's very cool.
00:54:50
Speaker
And I really have come to appreciate that about myself because even though I've lived through some hellacious things, like I've just, I'm just somebody that's open to the world and to life and ah people really, they're very magnetized by it, I found, which is,
00:55:03
Speaker
really kind of complimentary. You know, I appreciate that that is something that is um welcoming to not all comers, but people who are interested. I'm like, yeah, I'm willing to, I'm willing to give you a shot. Also, oh, this is one of the things that was a big FDS thing. They always recommend having a Google number to give out in public or when you're early dating so that so people don't get your actual phone number.
00:55:26
Speaker
Because you can actually route through, you can get a Google number, they can call and reach you on your phone with that Google number, but it's routed to your phone so that you don't have to give out your actual phone number and and ultimately end up being you know harassed or stalked. That's one way to avoid that. so Personally, that's awful.
00:55:44
Speaker
rachel I know. But I think it's it's coming back in vogue to give people your email. ha For real. yeah Oh my God. i real I love to write an email and I still send cards in the mail. You know what i mean? That's a great idea. But yeah, I just think, you know, being, being warm, you don't even have to be flirtatious. If you want to be, you can, but like just being warm and meeting people's eyes can often lead to, you know, some really wonderful unexpected encounters. And so I encourage people to not just like entirely close themselves off from the entire world because, it can seem so scary sometimes.
Engaging Beyond Dating Apps
00:56:20
Speaker
It's really not that bad. It's not that serious. It either is or it isn't, but most of the time it's not. And I feel like we should take a chance more often, you know, like we shouldn't just be in our little prisons, AKA homes all the time and never wanting to talk to the mailman or, you know, go pick up delivery and have a nice talk with like the chef who's hanging out at the till, you know, there are just so many different ways to meet people and, and we've kind of lost track of that, but.
00:56:45
Speaker
You're very right. And also, like that you um gave it as an example, people who are basically they're in the public sphere, right? They're like service providers. And this is a way to, yeah, in a way kind of train ourselves to be a bit more open. Like, I noticed that if I'm with, like, if somebody initiates like this the first,
00:57:09
Speaker
the first breaking of the wall, right? Because we exist in this um illusionary state that we're all separated by walls when indeed we're just like very, very close in the public space or in like settings, social settings.
00:57:23
Speaker
And then it's like my friend talks to a person, boom, I'm there, I'm asking questions, I'm finding out the person's life. But initial moment is something that I'm working on like to get a little less apprehensive about less like fidgety about.
00:57:43
Speaker
And also it depends on the day. Some days you're feeling great and you're feeling like talking to people and some days you don't and that's fine. And I'm not saying start hitting on everybody. But I'm like asking myself, what if we take like our little ego boost that we get from the dating app of like, oh, there are some cute guys out there. Oh, I'm cute. People like me.
00:58:03
Speaker
And then take that little ego boost to the world to remind yourself that you always have plenty of options. 100%. I cannot tell you. That's usually how I meet people to date. It's out in the real world because I have built that muscle up.
00:58:19
Speaker
And one of the easiest things to do is just decide what's a regular greeting that you want to have. So my one that I default to all the time is, hey there. I know that sounds so basic.
00:58:31
Speaker
I know it sounds so simple. But when I tell you people respond, their face lights up, they open up, their posture changes. it's like It's like the sun comes out from behind the clouds when you simply say, oh, hey there, how's it going?
00:58:44
Speaker
People are so happy. Well, also your tone is really, really nice. I would tell you, hey there, Beck. Exactly. Exactly. And so I just, I just wish more people would understand, like, this is this is part of the social sphere that, that existed for memorial time immemorial. It's only recently that we've stopped talking to people. Yes. he won We don't. green beed yeah I'm like the dating app seeing all kinds of people and then I go out to like my ah hipster coffee by my house and I'm like everybody here is more relevant to me than everybody on the dating app but I'm like unable to talk to them and I don't know why.
00:59:20
Speaker
I know. it's it's a It's a habit. It's a muscle. So just work on work on working it out little by little. Just have a little chit-chat with your the barista the next time you're in. And I include men and women. I talk to everybody. I think it's important to be able to talk to anybody and everybody because, again, it just becomes a daily practice. you don't even I don't even hesitate at this point. you know And like I always get special service when I go UPS or the post office because...
00:59:45
Speaker
they like that I'm friendly, you know? i mean, the the rewards are manifold. So don't be afraid. Even if if you need to practice with women more than men, that's okay too. I really like that, Rose. I'm going to try to practice that because it's not like about and next time you go to a show, if you see a cute guy, ask him if he has a girlfriend, which I did, by the way, he was really cute and he had a girlfriend. However, i like your example of, um I like your encouragement of like,
01:00:11
Speaker
talk to people and start with what's easy. Start with just whoever's giving you service, whoever is in front of you, and just work that muscle of reminding ourselves that we are actually not living in separate boxes. We are actually sharing the social space.
01:00:29
Speaker
And it's not kind of like a weird thing about the human experience. it's We're so weird about things now. And I'm always like, it doesn't have to be so weird, everybody. it really It's not that big of a deal. I know it can feel like it is. And that's why I'm like, start small, whatever you have to do you know like One thing that was really good for me when I moved to the city was back when I moved here, I didn't have a car at first for many years. And i would take the bus everywhere. And I got really used to just like chatting up the bus driver on like the 10-minute highway trip to downtown. Yeah.
01:01:01
Speaker
That's so cute. Right. I'd ask them what they're up to. I'd be like, what are you doing this weekend? Oh, you're going to be barbecuing and grilling. Where do you go for Oh, you like this part? Oh, where's that part? You know what I'm saying? It's like, it's, it's just basic human decency and interest. And I found out so many good places to go to and they were much happier when I left than when I got on the bus and everybody was better off for it. You know?
01:01:22
Speaker
I like that. I'm going to try to talk people more. Thank you, Rose. I'm going to start training that muscle and be less awkward about it. You're going to see. You're going to see it pays dividends. It's a wonderful way to live and be the I'm honestly pretty good at that. I'm just bad at ah breaking the first moment. Like the first initial switch between we are both humans that have never met and have nothing in common and we are 20 centimeters apart right now.
01:01:50
Speaker
which is yeah weird. and there is The moment you start talking to somebody is just so natural. But that initial moment, that's what's difficult for me. I feel you. Maybe you just got to say hi.
01:02:03
Speaker
but Yeah, I'll try. That's hard its it's really fun. It's the tone of voice. It's the body language. It's the face. It's the eye contact. It's so much more than just the word. It really is like your orientation to the world. And and that's a fun thing. I think for me, it's also like getting over myself and not assuming, like just getting out of the awkwardness.
01:02:25
Speaker
Everybody's awkward at heart. Let's be real, you know? You're just there and still there. The experience is weird, man. I mean, it is weird that we're sharing like the the space, that like you're in such close physical proximity with people that you've never met and you will never meet. And in order for that to go smoothly, you need to pretend, you know what I mean? I'm going to, I'm going to end with this. I hope you like it. There was a guy that I met at a festival a few years ago. He's an Arab guy.
01:02:53
Speaker
And he said something so interesting. He said that where he grew up in like a village, you have houses, and every family lives in a house.
01:03:04
Speaker
And the houses are kind of far away from each other, you know, they're like spaced. Maybe you can relate to that with suburbia. I'm not sure. Pardon? i I can't I mean, I grew up in the country, my nearest neighbor was like two kilometers away. There you go.
01:03:17
Speaker
yeah And then he said, I don't know if you relate to that, because also our culture is different, but that he he and his family were very close emotionally, like they very they were very friendly and close with their neighbors. And he said that when he lives in the city, that in the city, because we're so proximate, because physically we're so close to each other, we need to pretend Like we're farther away from each other, farther than we are, because that makes that's more psychologically comfortable. And I was like, I had never thought of that.
01:03:53
Speaker
But it is like that. Like when I hear my neighbors, i need to like kind of like zone it out and treat it as a background noise. Not that like I don't have a problem with them, but you know what I mean? Because it's weird that people are living that close to me.
01:04:06
Speaker
And we kind of like, I never noticed that we're kind of like, we put it in the background, and then we need to pretend that they're very far away for it to be more comfortable. Did did i make that make sense? That makes so much sense. And I find that such that's from an anthropological perspective. That is so fascinating. and honest I never, never, ever thought of anything close to that.
01:04:29
Speaker
Well, think about this, Patricia. If you use that as an example, look at where I come from. I come from being very far away from people and hence why I am so friendly and warm.
01:04:39
Speaker
Because you don't have that constant strain on your psyche to pretend that everybody else who's there is just, I don't know, part of the furniture. That's how, because that's how I grew up. So I grew up, it didn't matter how close people were. That's just how I was with, in relation to other people and relationships. So because we had to count on one another, we had to rely on one another and we had a lot of distance so that, yeah, we didn't feel overwhelmed. So now that I'm in the city, that still hasn't changed. That's still my default, but that's probably where those origins come from, which is so interesting. Oh my gosh. I love that story. Good story. Nice. Thank you.
01:05:16
Speaker
Should we, on that note, should we wrap it up for today? Yeah, definitely. such a good talk talk This was such a good talk, Patricia. I'm so glad we got together today. I feel invigorated. do too. no I want everybody else to go out there and get be invigorated and go say it hi to your neighbor.
01:05:34
Speaker
your barista. And please let us know if you want to join in the documentary. Please send us an email and we'll include that email again in the ah in the show links. And for that, we will sign off. We'll see you next two weeks.
01:05:46
Speaker
Yes. And enjoy your summer days. Until next time. Take care. Bye. Bye.