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Winter Driving in an EV - Part 3 - Traction and Tires
127 Plays2 years ago
Welcome to the Plug In For More podcast! Mike, Tom, and Bryant are here to help you on your journey to an Electric vehicle future. Each episode we discuss current events, trends, and a specific topic of education related to EV's. We bring together a diverse experience set, and pair it with guests who are experts in the field. For even more information on EV's, check out www.EVUniverse.com.
This episode is part 3 of a 3 part series looking into issues facing EV owners and winter driving. The episode examines tires for electric vehicles. While some may think there is a big difference between ICE and EV tires, that is not always the case. Listen in to learn more about the relationship between rolling resistance, traction, and your driving environment.
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Transcript
Episode Introduction: Winter Driving with EVs
00:00:00
Speaker
Welcome to the plugin for more podcasts. This is episode three on winter driving with Aaron Jones, our EV expert, Tom. I'm really excited to listen to this. This conversation is going to be very interesting. I think just from a fact of how to tires affect not only your range, but how do you drive in the winter? Is it different in EV versus a gas powered vehicle? I think I know the difference, but you know, let's find out what Aaron has to say.
00:00:26
Speaker
It's a really interesting conversation and there's a lot of things that you can take away from it that maybe you didn't even know to apply to a regular ICE vehicle. It's a good talk and I hope you enjoy the listen. Welcome to Plug In For More, brought to you by evuniverse.com.
00:00:42
Speaker
EV Universe is your one-stop shop for all things related to the electric vehicle. Here on this podcast, our goal is to educate, inspire, and hopefully make your transition into the electric vehicle marketplace a lot less intimidating. And now, here are your hosts, Mike, Tom, and Bryant.
Tom's Personal Winter Driving Experiences
00:01:02
Speaker
So Tom, one of the things that happened in my world this week is my neighbor got an R1T, super cool truck he brought it over. We went through it. We're going to be doing a video on our YouTube channel about it. Nice. And we're going to have Aaron.
00:01:16
Speaker
And Aaron's going to break it down with that gentleman as well. So hope everyone tunes in. If you haven't checked out our YouTube channel, please go ahead and do that. It's EV universe. And we're going to be going through that thing with a fine tooth comb, getting that guy's thoughts on the first few months of ownership. And it's a nice looking truck.
00:01:35
Speaker
It's seen it in person again. It's been a little while since I've seen one. It's nice. He's really impressed with it. So tune in. Very cool. And this is also a timely episode for me with winter driving. Northern Michigan has been pummeled along with the rest of the Northeast of the country. I have a foot of stone outside my house right now.
Understanding EV Tires: Performance and Misconceptions
00:01:55
Speaker
Had an unfortunate incident a few nights ago with my work vehicle with a deer, which put me down an all-wheel drive charger. Now I'm into a two-wheel drive charger.
00:02:03
Speaker
with some fairly unfortunate tires. So I'm really trying to heed the opalescence here from this episode. Very interesting. Well, good luck to that car getting repaired and just really excited to talk to Aaron here.
00:02:16
Speaker
you're listening to the plugin for more podcast. If you're looking for information on electric vehicles, electric vehicles, components or information on how to reduce your carbon footprint. Look no further than ev universe.com ev universe.com is your one stop shop for all things related to electric vehicle.
00:02:35
Speaker
I'm really excited to talk to you about tires. I know tires are one of the most underrated things with a car. People take it for granted, and it's often one of the most critical components. But I hear a lot about EV tires being different from gas vehicle tires. And I don't know if that's composition. I don't know if it's size. I'm not sure what it is. But I would love some input from you on what we're looking at for tires and EVs.
00:03:01
Speaker
Yeah, so I think today my job is going to be dispelling some of these myths when we talk about there being a different set of electric vehicle tires compared to ICE vehicles.
00:03:18
Speaker
One of the things we kind of look at is now we're starting to see branded tires for electric vehicles continental just came out with the set bridge stone has a set but the crazy thing is is that
00:03:34
Speaker
These tires are just a higher performing tire. They're nothing very special from what we would see with ice vehicles. It's like saying that Cheerios are now made with whole wheat when they've always been made with whole wheat, but now we're going to slap an EV sticker on these tires and we're going to be able to sell them to a whole different market.
00:03:55
Speaker
So when we look at what EVs need, they don't have anything special that you can't get from a tire. That's not already produced. So one of the big things and probably the most crucial thing that an EV is going to need is a lot more traction. So when we look at traction ratings, it's going to be scaled from AA, A, B, and C. AA being the most traction you can get out of a tire.
00:04:23
Speaker
Now, most EVs are going to come with either a AA or an A-rated tire. And they need this because, I mean, heck, they have the torque of a million horses all the time. So if you think about having 100% torque all the time, I mean, you're just going to either sit there and burn out at the light or your traction control is going to kick on and you're not going to have a very fun drive. The other side of that, other than going fast, is being able to stop fast.
00:04:53
Speaker
So we look and I mean tires are these cars are pretty heavy and the heavier the car the longer it's going to take to stop. So one way we can kind of cut the stopping time of a tire of a vehicle is with their tires. So you give a higher traction profile tire, the car is going to be able to stop a lot faster. It's one of those things that we often see tire companies test with.
00:05:22
Speaker
and definitely AA traction tires are going to stop faster than the B-rated tire.
Tire Technology: Rolling Resistance and Load Ratings
00:05:28
Speaker
The next thing up that we're kind of looking at, especially in terms of efficiency and just overall EV performance, would be a lower rolling resistance. When we talk about rolling resistance, we're talking about the energy that your vehicle has to send to your tires to maintain movement.
00:05:50
Speaker
So what it breaks down to is how much of that tire is making contact with the road and how much that road is slowing down that tire's inertia. So when you look at like a lower rolling resistance, you want something that's not going to kind of splat on the road as it comes around. It's like a softer tire is going to take up more of a footprint when it comes down than a harder tire.
00:06:16
Speaker
The other thing is you want to make sure that your tread patterns aren't so aggressive that it's making more contact with the road So we often see low rolling resistance tires having kind of a very aggressive tread pattern As far as like tread belts or like tread canyons we'll call them Just because it was not going to make as much much contact
00:06:41
Speaker
But the crazy thing is about low rolling resistance tires is that these guys have been around forever.
00:06:47
Speaker
It wasn't until recently that they started marketing these towards electric vehicles. They actually used to be called fuel saving tires. So I have to imagine that now, as you're explaining through this, there is a competing interest, if you will. I mean, you want to have low rolling resistance for the efficiency and maybe your range of an EV, but that's going to take away from traction if you have less of a footprint on the roadway.
00:07:15
Speaker
Yeah, and that's kind of the hard part too. So when EVs first started coming around, we started seeing, especially with the Prius or plug-in hybrids as well, we saw a heavy push to low rolling resistance tires. At some point in time, it was said that the Prius could not come with any other tire other than a low rolling resistance. So that definitely affected people in colder climates and things such as that because
00:07:46
Speaker
Yeah, they're not great for the winter. But now as cars are getting more and more range, I mean, we're seeing average range levels at like 270 miles of charge throughout the EV world. Low rolling resistance tires, like you don't need a very specific low rolling resistance tire. And a lot of companies are actually being able to kind of accomplish a lower rolling resistance by making lower profile tires. So giving you some bigger wheels, some better offset.
00:08:15
Speaker
And just kind of running with all seasons like all season tires are gonna be a considerably lower rolling resistant than a summer or winter Sure The other thing you're really gonna want to take a peek at is your load ratings EVs are gonna have a higher low rating. Most of the time you're gonna see your tire be rated at like XL This is because they're once again much heavier than Isis. So
Noise Reduction and Consumer Options in Tires
00:08:43
Speaker
22 Honda Civic. That's going to be about 3,000 pounds. Your Model 3 is going to be about 4,000 pounds. Tom's Mach-E is going to be about 4,500 pounds.
00:08:58
Speaker
Uh, the Ionic is 4,200 pounds and so forth and so on. So standards sedans and hatchbacks are going to weigh, you know, almost a half a ton, if not more than a regular ice vehicle. So they need, uh, each wheel needs to be able to hold about 500 pounds or each tire should be able to hold about 500 pounds. Um, but most tires that come on EVs are rated at a thousand pounds per tire. So, um,
00:09:26
Speaker
which is
00:09:39
Speaker
That's kind of the dark cloud of the EV tire world is noise reduction. And all noise reduction is foam on the inside of the tire. It's a foam sheet that is urethane on. It sits there in place and it makes the tire a little bit quieter. Now the reason that this is kind of like
00:10:07
Speaker
Controversial is because one the world's not kind of used to it time like tire repair shops facilities like that They're not quite used to them So a lot of the time we see conversation about these tires are not repairable Or we will not repair these tires tire manufacturers in the United States Association
00:10:28
Speaker
They've recently released a bulletin and said, that's false, repair these tires all you want. And it only includes like two extra steps. So like when, when you're repairing the tire, you're actually going to remove it from the wheel and you're going to cut the section of foam out that has the impact in it.
00:10:45
Speaker
And then it just doesn't go back in. And there is no noise difference in the consumer. So we're starting to see especially discount tire, like discount tires made a huge EV marketing push, like they're like, we love your EVs, we'll repair your EVs, bring them into us. Like, let's tear this market up. When you look at like consumers being able to purchase tires that are not original equipment with the foam,
00:11:11
Speaker
It's a lot easier than people make it out to be. I mean, if we look at Bridgestone, Continental, Dunlop, Michelin, Pan Cook, Goodyear, Pirelli, and a few others, all have noise reduction tires that are XL load rating, double A traction, and come in all season, summer, or winter.
00:11:32
Speaker
I mean, the Pirellis are the winter choice of Tesla. Continental makes a low rolling resistance tire. And then the rest of them, I mean, it's not that you need to go to discount tire and say, I need a tire for my EV. It's more that I need a tire with good traction. I need tire with a great load rating.
00:11:57
Speaker
And kind of depending on your climate, like do you need an all
Winter Driving Tips for EVs
00:12:00
Speaker
season or can you run with a summer tire? How about longevity for an EV tire compared to what we'd be used to have a nice vehicle? That's where the EVs do have a downfall at. Unfortunately, it's kind of just the combination of the beast.
00:12:14
Speaker
So you take the weight of the EV, you take the instant torque that you're going to have. Not only that, but you take the higher traction tire and kind of the more performance-based tire setup. I always tell owners that your first set of tires are going to wear out the fastest. That's because you're launching all your friends, you're getting used to regenerative braking, you're driving the heck out of this car, which you should be. I mean, that's, you get used to it, but put it to the test.
00:12:44
Speaker
But I mean commonly you'll see about 20 to 25,000 miles out of the first set of tires. Now, there's a lot of ways to combat this. First off, get it out of your head that electric vehicles don't need maintenance. You have to maintain your tires. And that starts with adhering to the manufacturer's recommendation of tire rotations.
00:13:04
Speaker
Now, most recommendations are going to be about 6,500 miles. I honestly like to be a little bit more aggressive. I like to rotate my tires about every 5,000 miles, but that's because I do oil changes at 5,000. But you guys don't have to do oil changes, so you're going to have to just kind of remind yourself to rotate your tires. Just as my rule of thumb, some people in the industry follow this, but I rotate my tires every 5,000.
00:13:30
Speaker
Every other rotation, I like to get my tires balanced, which really is just handling and comfort of the tires. I like to get my cars alignment checked once a year. That's the best way to kind of provide the longest tire life that you can get out.
00:13:46
Speaker
The other thing we're going to see is that EVs are going to have a little bit higher of a tire pressure. That's load rating. I mean, you're going to need to be putting these cars at about 39 to 45 PSI. Maintaining that will help maintain the life of your tire. It's going to help with your efficiency. Overall, it just will keep that annoying TPMS light off in the winter.
00:14:06
Speaker
We are recording now middle November. I'm in Northern Michigan, as we all know. I'm looking outside at about two inches of snow of fresh on the ground. Now I have yet to have my Mach-E. We're still waiting on that. I got the build date, you know, but I'm thinking about regenerative braking. I'm thinking about all of this torque for electric vehicles that we're talking about.
00:14:27
Speaker
How does that play out driving on slick, icy, snowy roads? I'm kind of hoping that somebody from Ford is going to listen to this and be like, guys, we got to get Tom his car. We got to get Tom his car now. So I think the first thing to kind of hop into is.
00:14:45
Speaker
do I need winter tires? I'm from usually sunny North Carolina. We see snow about once every four years, so I can't really say that I've had a need to ever put snow tires on my car. But there's a lot of science behind summer all season and winter tires. Your cars are going to come off of the line with all seasons. The reason for that is because they're going to be quieter, they're going to last longer,
00:15:14
Speaker
And really, they're just going to be an overall average performance. There's nothing that's going to be too much. There's nothing that's going to be too little. Sportier cars are going to come with summer tires more than the times of not. And summer tires are going to have a wider profile.
00:15:32
Speaker
They're often going to be much better with traction than all season tires. That's just because of hydroplaning and stopping But anything right around 30 degrees and below with all seasons and summers your rubber compound is going to start getting really stiff and that non that non low rolling resistance tires going to become a low rolling resistance tire because it's not going to be able to grip the road the way it needs to okay, so if
00:16:03
Speaker
This is just my opinion. If you guys see snow flurries once a year, twice a year, it doesn't really stick. All seasons should take care of you just fine. Just be careful.
00:16:19
Speaker
people who need winter tires, aka you, should swap to winter tires. I mean, they're going to usually have the special rubber compound that works better in colder temps and are awful in hot temps.
00:16:34
Speaker
Not only that, but they're going to have a much deeper tread canyon. And this is to kind of like throw snow and slush out while they're driving. Just kind of to help you gain a little bit of traction. Now as far as like studded versus non-studded, I don't know.
00:16:53
Speaker
It's like 50 degrees here today. But there is some importance in getting snow tires. And I think it's important with EVs because like we were talking about earlier, you've got that 100 degree or 100% torque. When we look at that too, EVs are going to come with regenerative braking or one pedal driving is kind of what we're calling it nowadays.
00:17:19
Speaker
A lot of EVs are not going to have regenerative braking in the colder weather to begin with. And that's just because it's too cold to kind of put that juice back into the battery. So the beginning of your drive, that region is probably going to be disabled.
00:17:37
Speaker
Long and short of it is if there are winter conditions on the road, turn off your region, turn off your one pedal driving. It can lead to sudden stops, which could lead to sliding, needing to have traction control intervention. It's just smart to kind of take that off and regain full control of the vehicle. Now, I know some EVs, you can't turn it off completely, but those EVs usually have a snow mode or a winter mode that you can put it into.
00:18:07
Speaker
Um, kind of for that, uh, specifically now, um, while I didn't have a lot of experience here, I did work in Norway for about five weeks in the middle of February. And, you know, we drove model S's model X's all with the region off and EVs have some of the most insane. Trash control. I mean, they can save you from just about anything. Um,
00:18:35
Speaker
But an important message for that. And just in my experience, I've seen this so many times is traction control only works as good as your tires. So my experience has been that
00:18:49
Speaker
a lot of EV owners get these vehicles, don't realize that their tires are going to wear out so quickly. They don't have them checked because they're not coming in every 5,000 miles for an oil change. And then that unfortunately, it leads to hydroplaning
Cost and Maintenance of EV Tires
00:19:09
Speaker
and into a lot of what in the industry we call non-driveable accidents. And a non-drive accident is any time that your vehicle is in an accident that you cannot drive away. That has to be immediately towed to a body shop. One thing to remember is that these cars have an insane amount of torque. And while trash control can do everything in its life, if you have hydroplane, you are on an ice sheet, and you have no grip left in your tires,
00:19:38
Speaker
Unfortunately, it's not the machine's fault at that point. Yeah. So, Aaron, how much are these towers going to cost me?
00:19:45
Speaker
When we look at a higher performance tire, which is what we're going to get with an EV, we're going to be looking at roughly about 280 to 320 a tire. Now, to compare that, you're looking at about that same price range with a BMW 3 Series, and that's the non-run flat tire. When we look at run flats, we're looking at about 350. And then looking at like, I did this earlier, 2019 Honda Accord.
00:20:11
Speaker
just looking at its base tire, I mean, it was $250, $270 off of a tire website. So while the tires are not terribly inexpensive, I don't believe that it's because they're electric vehicles tires. I think it's because it's a very well performing, higher load rating noise reduction tire. So
00:20:35
Speaker
If you want, look for tires that are not for EVs, just look at their specs. Make sure that they're going to hit all your check marks and see if they're priced different. If they are, then someone's definitely rolling on the EV gravy train of 2023.
Conclusion and Final Advice on Tire Safety
00:20:51
Speaker
Hey Aaron, I really appreciate all the information on tires and I think it's really helpful for people that are going to be getting into this space to have a better feel for what they're looking for going to the winner. This being our third installment for the winner driving series that we've been trying to do. So thank you for your time and your wisdom and expertise. Yeah. Thanks for having me. One thing I just want to add is
00:21:12
Speaker
For everyone who's still listening here at the end, remember that the tires are the only thing that make your car touch the road. So not to do a scare tactic, but a tire can be the difference between a really bad day and a not so bad day. So figure out a way to maintain them, take care of them, and they'll take care of you. Awesome. Thank you.
00:21:34
Speaker
Thank you for listening to plug in for more. Make sure you subscribe so you don't miss any future episodes. In the meantime, check out the one-stop EV Marketplace, evuniverse.com. Until next time.