Transcript
Speaker: And welcome to the CCDA podcast.
Speaker: In this episode, Bethany Rivera Molinar talks to us about a theology from the border taken from the 2020 conference.
Speaker: We join her now in her workshop.
Speaker: So none of us come to scripture with a blank slate and interpreting, understanding and applying it.
Speaker: Rather, we see scripture, we understand scripture, we apply scripture through the lenses in which we we see the world through.
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: We understand, we read scripture through the lens of our gender.
Speaker: We read and understand scripture through our culture, through our heritage, through the way we were raised, maybe the relationship we have with our parents.
Speaker: All of these things and more shape how we come to scripture and interpreting, understanding what we focus on, how we apply it.
Speaker: scripture.
Speaker: One of the ways that we, one of the lenses that many of us and a lens that's prominent throughout history is one that is pointed out to us by Miguel de la Torre in his book, Doing Christian Ethics from the Margins.
Speaker: And in that book, he talks about the fact that the way that we have been taught to understand and interpret scripture historically and even on into today has largely been to protect those in power.
Speaker: So that can seem like a very strong, a very big statement.
Speaker: What do you mean?
Speaker: You mean I don't come to scripture and not see and not protect those in power?
Speaker: Like, I don't understand what that means.
Speaker: Let me give you a couple of examples of what that looks like.
Speaker: So Matthew chapter 19 is the story of the rich young ruler, right?
Speaker: So this rich young ruler comes to Jesus and he says, what do I need to do to inherit the kingdom of heaven, to have eternal life?
Speaker: And Jesus has dialogue with him.
Speaker: They kind of tick off.
Speaker: Okay, I'm doing this.
Speaker: I'm doing that.
Speaker: I'm doing all these things.
Speaker: And Jesus says, there's one thing you lack.
Speaker: You need to give everything away you have to the poor and then come follow me and then your reward will be great.
Speaker: And then the story tells us that the rich young ruler leaves sad because he had a lot.
Speaker: And so Jesus turns to his disciples and he says, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter through the kingdom of heaven.
Speaker: Um, as I, when I grew up in, in church and even on into seminary, uh, the way that I was taught to interpret and understand that scripture was to say, was to, to place less emphasis on the fact that God asked this man, a rich man to give away all that he had.
Speaker: Um, and it was shied away from seeing that as a, something that we should, that everybody with wealth should consider.
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: Uh, it was said, well, that will, that was that young man's
Speaker: issue that was his sin.
Speaker: And so for him, it was wealth, but not if that's not the case for every wealthy person, right?
Speaker: So it was massaged.
Speaker: It was made more palatable to wealthy ears.
Speaker: Wealthy people tend to be more in power, have more power, right?
Speaker: And so the other scripture where you can see this happen is in one of an example is Romans 13.
Speaker: And so that's a scripture that we hear a lot on the border that's kind of crammed down our throat and says, you have to obey it verbatim, right?
Speaker: So that scripture says, let every person be subject to governing authorities for there is no authority except that which God has been given.
Speaker: We are instructed to interpret and understand that verbatim.
Speaker: So it doesn't matter what's happening.
Speaker: It doesn't matter the fact that,
Speaker: It feels that a tyrant is running the show and directly affecting lives on our border and amongst other places.
Speaker: We are told that that person was placed in power.
Speaker: Those people are placed in power.
Speaker: So you have to respect and you have to submit to their authority, right?
Speaker: This lens of scripture, understanding this,
Speaker: the awareness that this is how we've been taught throughout history, throughout many of our cultures to understand scripture so that people are kept in power, can prevent us from seeing the critical role that migration plays in scripture, right?
Speaker: So Dr. D.G.
Speaker: Grudy, he's a theologian of migration and he says this, the identity of the people of God is inextricably tied with the story of movement, risk, and hospitality.
Speaker: So what D.G.
Speaker: Grudy is telling us is that you cannot have the story of God without the story of and the story of God and man without the story of migration.
Speaker: It's an integral part of how God chose to reveal himself through scripture.
Speaker: And.
Speaker: I think about a professor in my seminary that said scripture was like a jewel.
Speaker: So there's many facets in a jewel, right?
Speaker: And so sometimes we're just used to looking at it from this certain lens
Speaker: And so what I want to do today is to take some scriptures, talk to you about some scriptures that maybe you have heard before, or maybe that you have breezed over before, two specific instances where God directly has something to say to us about migration and what it means and what our call is to migrants.
Speaker: But before that, I want to preface by saying this is not at all exhaustive.
Speaker: Scripture is littered with stories of migrants from Adam and Eve to the first early church who was made and through the gospel spread through communities of immigrants.
Speaker: Also, I want to say that scripture...
Speaker: not only has stories of migrants, but there is legislation in the Old Testament, extensive legislation that specifically speaks to how we are called to treat people that are not from this land.
Speaker: And so I encourage you to look at those scriptures, to read them, to look into it.
Speaker: But God definitely has a lot to say about migration.
Speaker: So I'm going to talk today about two specific stories.
Speaker: And, um, and then, and then kind of, again, turn this, this, the jewel of scripture, ask the Holy spirit to maybe reveal to us some things that we've missed because of the lenses maybe that have prevented us from seeing what God's speaking to us about immigration and migrants.
Speaker: Hi, my name is Christina for, and what I love about CCDA is that our faith is part of communities flourishing.
Speaker: Welcome to the CCDA podcast.
Speaker: The first story I want to talk about is the story of Ruth.
Speaker: Ruth was not originally an immigrant, right?
Speaker: In the beginning of the story, she married an immigrant who came into her land.
Speaker: But what happens?
Speaker: Her husband is killed.
Speaker: We don't, um, his, her father-in-law is killed.
Speaker: Her brother-in-law is killed.
Speaker: Brothers-in-law.
Speaker: Um,
Speaker: And they, it's just her and her sister-in-law, sisters-in-law and her mother-in-law and her sisters-in-law go back to their land and try to live life.
Speaker: But Ruth makes the bold and courageous decision to follow her mother-in-law back into her mother-in-law's native land.
Speaker: This is a courageous decision.
Speaker: It's a decision of great valor because as migrants are incredibly vulnerable, both in scripture and even on to today.
Speaker: Sometimes we think about people migrating, we don't stop to say or think and reflect on what it takes for somebody to leave their language, their culture.
Speaker: in some cases their faith, their family, everything that's familiar to them to go to another place.
Speaker: What does it take for a person to make that decision?
Speaker: Migration is an act of valor.
Speaker: For Ruth, this was certainly an act of valor.
Speaker: She followed her mother-in-law.
Speaker: She traveled, which was where she was very vulnerable, into a land where she didn't know anybody.
Speaker: She didn't know any person.
Speaker: It's not her native culture.
Speaker: So what happens is she goes into the field of Boaz.
Speaker: Her mother-in-law sends her there so that they can survive to glean the fields.
Speaker: And what happens is Boaz sees her in the fields, right?
Speaker: And he asks somebody, who's that woman?
Speaker: When I...
Speaker: I've heard this scripture since I was a kid and I always assumed, oh, Ruth must have, she just must have been so beautiful.
Speaker: Like, of course he noticed her.
Speaker: There's just some type of charisma about her.
Speaker: She has that uncertain, unspoken quality, just beautiful woman.
Speaker: But I never stopped to think the fact that she's an immigrant, right?
Speaker: So what does an immigrant mean?
Speaker: It means that you look different maybe from the culture that you're in.
Speaker: maybe you sound different maybe you don't speak the language so your language is broken your speech is broken maybe the clothing you're wearing looks different than the culture that you're in so she stood out and what happens is Boaz hears the story of this Moabite woman because the the person that tells the story doesn't even say oh that's Ruth the Moabite woman he just says that's that Moabite woman that followed Naomi
Speaker: And he's struck by her story.
Speaker: He invites her to come and eat with him.
Speaker: And what he does after he spends time with her is he tells his men, do not molest her, do not abuse her.
Speaker: She is under my protection.
Speaker: I don't want any harm to come to her, right?
Speaker: And then he also gives her extra bales of food, extra parcels of food to take with her.
Speaker: The thing about this story is he's doing something that's illegal according to biblical law, right?
Speaker: So he is helping an immigrant that is seen as his acts are unlawful according to who she is.
Speaker: So those scripture, and I mentioned it, is littered with exhortation after exhortation, particularly in the Old Testament, about how to care for people that are not from the land that you're in, for the foreigner.
Speaker: There is scripture, and it's thus saith the Lord type scripture in Deuteronomy 23, verses 4 through 6.
Speaker: where the Israelites are specifically instructed not to seek the peace or prosperity of the Moabites.
Speaker: It says, do not seek their peace, do not seek their prosperity, thus saith the Lord, right?
Speaker: What does Boaz do in this situation?
Speaker: We haven't even gotten to the part where they get married.
Speaker: Just this part of the story, he acts unlawfully, right?
Speaker: He...
Speaker: seeks her peace, right?
Speaker: Because he tells his men to protect her and not to harm her.
Speaker: And he seeks her prosperity, not just by allowing her to just get by by gleaning, but giving her extra.
Speaker: And then eventually he marries her, right?
Speaker: So this story is a story that where,
Speaker: It seems like scripture is saying two different things.
Speaker: And so when scripture says two different things, we have to look at the thread that is woven through scripture.
Speaker: What is the primary, the main threads that God is trying to speak it to us through?
Speaker: Well, I can tell you that in the Old Testament, the first, the command that's most often repeated to the people is to hear, oh Lord, our God, that God is one.
Speaker: But the second one is a consistent exhortation to care for the migrant.
Speaker: And for the vulnerable as well.
Speaker: But in this case, the second most repeated command in the Old Testament is to care for the stranger, for the foreigner.
Speaker: And we see this evidence in Christ's words when Christ himself is asked that question, like, how do we distill all of this?
Speaker: What is the greatest commandment?
Speaker: I feel like I have all these things I need to obey.
Speaker: What are the greatest commandments?
Speaker: And Jesus says, the greatest commandment is to love the Lord your God with all your heart, your soul, your mind, your strength.
Speaker: And the second is like this, to love your neighbor as yourself, right?
Speaker: So the story of Ruth is a story of a courageous immigrant who migrates to care for somebody that she cares for very deeply.
Speaker: And I think that has a lot to speak to us today in terms of how we understand scripture, how we understand migrants and how we understand the story of migrants and the motivations for their travels and what it takes for somebody to go from one place to another.
Speaker: We'll be right back.
Speaker: But first, a word from our sponsor.
Speaker: Hello, I'm Paul Miles, President and CEO of We Raise Foundation.
Speaker: We Raise invests in people and organizations that serve at the intersection of poverty, violence, and inequality.
Speaker: We start by acknowledging that change begins with we.
Speaker: We are in this together.
Speaker: And it's going to take our love and our compassion and dedication to solve the problems facing communities today.
Speaker: We invite you to be part of that with us and encourage you to visit WeRaise.org to find out how you can become involved and be a partner with WeRaise.
Speaker: The second story I wanted to focus on today or to like maybe put a little greater light on today is the smallest book in the Old Testament.
Speaker: That's the book of Obadiah.
Speaker: So Obadiah was a prophet that was sent to the Edomites for their response to the conquering of Israel by the Babylonians and the people fleeing that conquering.
Speaker: So the Israelites and the Edomites were descendants of Esau and Isaac, right?
Speaker: So Esau's descendants, or Esau's, the descendants of Esau were the Edomites and the descendants of Jacob were the Israelites.
Speaker: So if you know the story of Esau and Jacob, you know that they had lots of drama right out from the womb, from the womb out, right?
Speaker: They had lots of drama, right?
Speaker: Their story was just full of having issues with one another.
Speaker: And what happens is they finally reconcile towards the end of the story.
Speaker: But their families didn't.
Speaker: They had issues with each other for hundreds of years after that.
Speaker: They did not like each other.
Speaker: They looked down on one another.
Speaker: They just were not...
Speaker: did not fond of each other.
Speaker: They settled in separate lands.
Speaker: The Israelites settled in a valley and the Edomites settled in what is now considered modern day Petra.
Speaker: Modern day Petra, if you, I encourage you to look it up if you haven't been there or you haven't seen it, but it's a city, ancient city.
Speaker: carved out of the rock of a mountain, up on top of a mountain.
Speaker: It's like a fortress.
Speaker: And the carvings that are there today aren't the same carvings that were there in this particular story, but it'll give you a picture of this very strong, seemingly
Speaker: Unconquerable land is very power.
Speaker: It's very fortified right.
Speaker: The other thing that made that land seem very.
Speaker: That that place seem like unconquerable because it felt unconquerable because there was a very narrow path to get into Petra.
Speaker: It was so narrow that only two horses side by side could travel together.
Speaker: No more than two horses side by side.
Speaker: And so it's very hard to conquer a land if
Speaker: The only way you can get into it is two horses side by side, right?
Speaker: Because you see them all coming.
Speaker: So the Edomites settled above in the mountains.
Speaker: They looked down upon the Israelites, literally, right?
Speaker: So they looked down upon the valley, but they also looked down upon them figuratively, right?
Speaker: They did not like them.
Speaker: They thought they were better than them.
Speaker: They thought they were unconquerable, right?
Speaker: They thought that nobody could defeat them.
Speaker: They were so powerful.
Speaker: And so what happens is they see this, the Babylonian conquering of the Israelites.
Speaker: It's incredibly traumatic.
Speaker: It's something that people talk about even into today.
Speaker: And you can see the evidence and the outfall of it throughout Scripture, throughout the Old Testament.
Speaker: But the land is raised, the temple is raised, people are killed, it's very traumatic, people are taken away as slaves.
Speaker: And so the Edomites are witnessing this and the Edomites have three responses to what they're seeing.
Speaker: The first response is to do nothing.
Speaker: So they say, it's not my problem.
Speaker: I don't got anything to do with that.
Speaker: I'm not there with a sword taking down those Israelites.
Speaker: So it's not my problem, right?
Speaker: The second response that they have is they delight in it, right?
Speaker: They're like, good, I'm glad.
Speaker: They're gleeful about it.
Speaker: They are getting what they deserved.
Speaker: I never liked them anyway, even though they're essentially relatives, right?
Speaker: And then the third response that they had
Speaker: was particularly insidious.
Speaker: So they would witness the people fleeing the land and then they would stop them in their tracks because they could see where they were leaving.
Speaker: And then they would say, hey, Babylonians, come over here.
Speaker: I got your people.
Speaker: And then they would be taken captive by the Babylonians because the Edomites prevented them from seeking safety, from seeking asylum, from getting out of the danger.
Speaker: And God has very specific message to these people.
Speaker: I'm gonna read to you the message version of God's response to the Edomites.
Speaker: It says, in verses two through four, it says, "'You thought you were so great, "'perched high among the rocks, "'king of the mountains, "'thinking to yourself, "'nobody can get to me, nobody can touch me.'"
Speaker: Does that sound familiar?
Speaker: That certainly speaks to us today, right?
Speaker: Think again, that's what God says, think again.
Speaker: Even if like an eagle, you hang out on a high cliff face, even if you build your nest in the stars, I'll bring you down to earth.
Speaker: And in verse 14, he tells the Edomites through Obadiah that you should not wait at the crossroads to cut down their fugitives, nor hand over their survivors of their day of trouble, in their day of trouble.
Speaker: The judgment of the Edomites as spoken through Obadiah is that your response to people suffering, even if you are not directly taking part of it, even if you do nothing, that that is a response and that God will hold you accountable to those responses that you have of ignoring the cries of your neighbors.
Speaker: Unless you think this is just about the fact that Edomites and the Israelites have this whole history, this family history, about halfway through the book, God turns it to all nations.
Speaker: And he says, the day of the Lord is near for all nations.
Speaker: As you have done, it will be done to you.
Speaker: Your deeds will return upon your own head.
Speaker: Scripture says,
Speaker: turns and shows a bigger picture of the nations and what God requires of them and how that God sees what's happening.
Speaker: And so this speaks to, I mean, this speaks to us today, right?
Speaker: So,
Speaker: This is exactly what we've seen happen on our border, right?
Speaker: So people, asylum seekers that we have talked to, that we've broken bread with, that we have heard their stories.
Speaker: These are not things that I've heard from other people, but stories that we've actually heard from our asylum-seeking brothers and sisters who are fleeing danger, who are fleeing destruction.
Speaker: are being told, no, you can't come forward.
Speaker: No, actually we're doing exactly what the Edomites did and we're preventing them from getting in the land.
Speaker: And thanks be to God that our Mexican brothers and sisters in Juarez are meeting the needs.
Speaker: But they're putting, them doing that is putting the churches that are hosting them, the asylum seekers at risk, at danger, as well as the asylum seekers being in Mexico.
Speaker: And so scripture speaks to us about migration.
Speaker: Again, I encourage you to look through scripture and see what God is saying to you.
Speaker: These are just two stories.
Speaker: But as you come to an awakening that maybe the way that I, one of the lenses that I look at scripture has been, that's been taught to me has been to protect those in power.
Speaker: Then how can I deconstruct that?
Speaker: God, take those thoughts captive, right?
Speaker: And root out,
Speaker: the colonization, white supremacy, all the things that my scripture interpretation, understanding has been informed by so that those in power are kept at power.
Speaker: God, teach me, show me what you're doing with people that I even marginalize when I read the text in scripture, when I read stories.
Speaker: Who is God bringing to your, what is God highlighting to you that maybe you haven't noticed before?
Speaker: And then I want you to say that there are people that have done this.
Speaker: There are people that...
Speaker: The majority marginalizes to prevent from hearing the fact that they're crying out to us the fact to listen to the voices on the margins and to see this fuller picture of the gospel and a fuller picture of the gospel and the liberation of people and the coming kingdom of Shalom.
Speaker: That's what I have to share with you today.
Speaker: My prayer is that you will step in faith towards God in looking at scripture in new ways.
Speaker: And that you will see that God's heart is for the migrant and God's heart is for people that are marginalized.
Speaker: And that's where God works through.
Speaker: Those are the people that God is consistently works through and speaks through and stands with.
Speaker: Amen.
Speaker: Thank you for listening to the CCDA podcast.
Speaker: And thank you to Bethany Rivera Molinar for her presentation on A Theology from the Border.
Speaker: Hello, I'm Paul Miles, President and CEO of We Raise Foundation.
Speaker: We Raise invests in people and organizations that serve at the intersection of poverty, violence, and inequality.
Speaker: We start by acknowledging that change begins with we.
Speaker: We are in this together.
Speaker: And it's going to take our love and our compassion and dedication to solve the problems facing communities today.
Speaker: We invite you to be part of that with us and encourage you to visit WeRaise.org to find out how you can become involved and be a partner with WeRaise.
Speaker: Thank you for listening to the CCDA podcast.
Speaker: Don't forget to subscribe on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen to podcasts.
Speaker: This podcast is produced by Dan Portnoy in association with Scott Overpeck.
