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BBBC Reads Ward - Episode 14 - Gleaming
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This story isn’t intended for young or sensitive readers. Readers who are on the lookout for trigger warnings are advised to give Worm a pass. Complete list of potential triggers: here
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The Brockton Bay Book Club discusses J.C. McCrae's Ward live! The gang reads a portion of Ward and comes together to share our thoughts with each other and anyone who want's to participate.
This week we cover Arc 9.1 to 9.Y - Gleaming!
Read along here
Play along with this week's BBBC BINGO while you listen!
Support us and connect with us @brocktonbaybc
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Transcript
Introduction to the Book Club
00:00:01
Speaker
Welcome back, everybody. We are live. We are live. Good evening, Mega Random attacks in the suburbs and a prison break on happening right now.
00:00:19
Speaker
What are we talking about? It's ARC 9 Part 1 with the Brockton Bay Book Club. Let's go. Featuring your host, Alan.
00:00:31
Speaker
Hannah. ah Hello. Jacob. Hello. Nick. Hello there. And of course, our producer, the man on the keys, Michael.
00:00:45
Speaker
Hello. And welcome you all to Brockton Bay Book Club.
Reading Wild Bow's 'Ward'
00:00:50
Speaker
As per the usual, we are reading through Wild Bow's Ward, sequel to Wyrm, if this is your first time here. This is essentially a book club, ah and we just happen to do it live, and other people give their inputs.
00:01:05
Speaker
um Speaking of inputs, we, of course, have our bingo ah linked in chat. If you'd like to play along. And if you'd like to contribute, you should join our patron. We we talk word spoilers outside of this. So no spoilers in chat while we're here.
00:01:21
Speaker
um And I think that about covers it. We've got a lot that I think we're going to talk about tonight. So we're going to get into this as quickly as possible.
Exploring ARC 9's Length
00:01:31
Speaker
Speed round.
00:01:32
Speaker
Yeah. a lot of anticipation for this arc. It is the longest arc we have done so far. We have split it into two parts.
00:01:44
Speaker
I think it maxes out at somewhere around 140 plus, um, words. Uh, so just this arc is more than your average book.
00:01:55
Speaker
Um, And we had to read half of it for about 70,000 from seven or from 9.1 to 9.1. to nine point y Those of you who read with us know and very well how long it was.
00:02:09
Speaker
Yes. and A cliffhanger. It sure ended on, but. Let's go ahead.
Audience Excitement for ARC 9
00:02:16
Speaker
I'm going to go ahead and read this off J-Man 1954 Goat.
00:02:21
Speaker
J-Man said, skipped a couple of episodes and read Arcanine, begging so I can watch live. Arcanine is my favorite arc of the story. So excited to make it here. um Truett says, Arcanine, in my opinion, is where Ward picks up.
00:02:34
Speaker
And Tree T says, yeah, this is definitely where the story gets interesting. I know we've been down on it for a little bit. And, you know, i think i I was remembering, I think this is where things turn turn up a notch.
00:02:48
Speaker
And I'm excited to hear your opinions, good or bad on it. So let's start. Let's go. What do we think about it? Hannah, thank you for bringing us. Hannah, what are your thoughts? mean,
00:03:02
Speaker
um this This is the first time in, i think, probably all of Ward where I've been like dying to read the next section, where I didn't want to stop reading when I hit
Hosts' Opinions on ARC 9
00:03:13
Speaker
9.Y. I was like, oh no. No, no, no, no. I'm not done. I'm not done.
00:03:17
Speaker
um Yeah, no. ah Really good. Some big stuff happened, and I'm i am very excited to discuss it because we've I have thoughts.
00:03:28
Speaker
have so many thoughts.
00:03:32
Speaker
Jacob? Yeah. um I mean, my my my typical ward complaints are still there. i do think the story drags ah far too much than it should.
00:03:45
Speaker
But that being said, ah yeah echoing what Hannah said. Very, very interesting few chapters. And was a pretty rough cliffhanger. So I am also, I finished that 9.Y this morning when I woke up and was like, do I have time? I know I can't, I can't read. I gotta, I gotta to wait. I can't read more. so So ah yeah, let's be it's be, it's, it's good. It's good stuff.
00:04:09
Speaker
I agree with you. One day we'll do maybe even a live editing process of like what we would cut and how we'd reformat this into maybe not even like a show, but a cohesive book.
Editing and Narrative Structure
00:04:21
Speaker
We've talked about that before. like How we would edit it. um it's like You're talking about like ah how it sounds. Now it's picking up.
00:04:30
Speaker
A million words in, but we're picking up now. Once you get through the first million. You just got to the yeah yeah through first nine arcs. Nick, what are your thoughts?
Predictions and Fight Scenes
00:04:41
Speaker
Yeah, very similar. um i i really did enjoy this arc, this first half of the arc. um I've got some some funny moments that I'll pull out and...
00:04:52
Speaker
I feel like i'm I'm kind of calling a couple of things that I'm pretty pretty happy with. So we'll get there when we get there. I think I may have obviously not 100% perfectly, but I may have called something.
00:05:05
Speaker
I'm excited to hear it. We'll get there when we get there. Broken clock. It's true. yeah that's Well, there is that too. Yeah. All right. Well, I also and really enjoyed this. I knew that this what we're going to be pick picking up. It has one of my, maybe not in the moment favorite fight scenes, but, ah you know, has some of my favorite moments, some of the most memorable moments that I recall from my readings.
00:05:34
Speaker
um So, and Fran also says, just like one piece, it gets good 70 chapters in. Yes, exactly. It's got the one-piece treatment, for sure. It's unfortunate.
00:05:48
Speaker
All right. Well,
Victoria's Character Development
00:05:50
Speaker
let's dive in. Nick, do you have the summaries? I do, indeed. 9.1. Victoria meets with her therapist, visits Natalie in the hospital, and tells her team about Amy and the wretch.
00:06:07
Speaker
A bit of a short one, 9.1,
00:06:12
Speaker
I really liked this as a bit of character building for Victoria. Yeah. um And i i know I keep, ah you know, speaking of being a broken clock, I know that I keep saying that Victoria is the most concerning member of Team Breakthrough.
00:06:28
Speaker
I feel like... this chapter, I made a note and i don't remember exactly why, so forgive me lack of specifics, but um I feel like this is more evidence that yes, indeed, she may indeed be the most ah most concerning member of Team Breakthrough.
00:06:49
Speaker
Why are you concerned, Nick? there Victoria is the type of person who appears to have everything under wraps on the surface when, in fact, she does not at all.
00:07:04
Speaker
And I think that makes her very dangerous because she is perhaps one of the more powerful members of the team in a lot of ways. And I think also thinks that she has her...
00:07:20
Speaker
abilities and everything under control. And there's nothing, there's few things more dangerous than a powerful person who is incredibly unstable, but thinks they're in control the entire time.
00:07:34
Speaker
And that's the vibe I get from Victoria. The rest of the team, and obviously we'll get into Tristan and Byron's stuff later, um you know, they are also far, far, very far concerning in their own ways, but and just I'm going with the super unreliable narrator mindset that I think Victoria is a problem.
00:07:52
Speaker
Yeah. It would be a problem in the future. I mean, we'll touch on that and towards the end too, but yeah. Oh, yeah. It makes me think of what we just came from, why she has to you know show off the wretch in the first place is because of the you know the TV show drama.
00:08:08
Speaker
Right. In a way, she's almost like Sveta, where like you know if something super triggering should happen... It's a bunch of hands that just randomly go out and clearly can just break bones and you know blend people.
00:08:26
Speaker
But Sveta knows how her body works, and she knows if she gets in a certain state, she will bug out. And Victoria maybe doesn't have that awareness because it hasn't happened yet.
00:08:39
Speaker
But the idea that like what if she was in the studio instead of like bursting out with her... just like emotional aura. What if she just pushed out with the wretch, you know?
00:08:50
Speaker
um People in the crowd getting grabbed and she's like, whoops, my bad. Like you don't, ah how did that happen? That's never happened before. Oh no. My dog never bites.
00:09:04
Speaker
I gotta say the cinematic ah visual of the reveal, beautiful though. Just like in like the rain washing off of the wretch so that it's outlined.
00:09:15
Speaker
She's grabbing two by fours and wood. was like, I can see that moment was ah terrifying. Yeah. it For some reason, every time i I do the rain and the outline thing, and my mind just automatically automatically goes to Daredevil the movie.
00:09:32
Speaker
With ah yeah the bad movie? Yeah. The only movie. best Daredevil movie. okay yeah yeah yeah it's the best daredevil movie I just to point out for the record that Alan made a movie reference before I did. And that doesn't count. Jot that down.
00:09:54
Speaker
It is iconic, but as bad as it is. As Diane points out.
00:10:03
Speaker
Yeah. All right. Yeah, we got 11 chapters. There is some oh something in here. i just When she starts talking about her body and um yeah I think it's when she's in the hospital visiting with Natalie and then immediately afterwards where she's talking to people that she just has, there's some wild disassociation going on between.
00:10:28
Speaker
oh yeah. Between ah Victoria and her, you know, skin suit that she wears and walks around in. Yeah. Right. yeah Yeah. Especially, you know, having just seen that Amy's, you know, alive and,
00:10:45
Speaker
And working with criminal mastermind goddess. Yeah. mean, I definitely think there's part of Victoria that feels like her body was destroyed the crawler and the attack and that she's not in her body anymore, which is true. She's in a vessel.
00:11:07
Speaker
It's the old ship of Theseus thing, right? Exactly. She's mentioned before that her body was remade with non-animal parts. She doesn't even know. ah how old cat screwed up her DNA is. um Still gives me that shit.
00:11:22
Speaker
It's yeah not great. and I think that's what that's what it is, right? It's just the vibe of like that heavy disassociation, the identity crisis. Obviously, not as obviously threatening of a power as somebody like Taylor's who Amy you know warped to turn into total mind control.
00:11:41
Speaker
But... it does feel like there's a lot to be concerned about with Victoria.
Goddess's Influence and Mind Control
00:11:47
Speaker
Yeah. um So yeah, I don't know. Bernard mentions that, and I'll take your word for it, Bernard, that that imagery of her in the rain and, you know, the wretch being shown off is the imagery that supposedly made Wild Bo make Glory Girl his protagonist for the story in the first place. Oh, interesting. Interesting. That's very cool.
00:12:08
Speaker
It's good to know. Appreciate it, Bernard. Yeah. The contrast with Natalie's family. Natalie has an overbearing mother who cares um too much. yeah um I think this again reveals that contrast for Victoria who feels like she doesn't have any of that right now.
00:12:27
Speaker
Yeah. so And Natalie even says something. She's like, yeah, she's not like, I mean, like your mom. She's not awesome like your mom. She's not awesome like your mom. And Vicky's like, you have no idea. Yeah.
00:12:41
Speaker
Bernard also asks, is there any vibe that Red Queen is also in mind control by goddess? I think it's explicitly mentioned a couple times yeah that she is not under her control. She's a lieutenant.
00:12:54
Speaker
almost wonder if Amy's power gives her some resistance to mind control. I have a whole thought on this, so can we put a pin in it until later? Yeah, yeah.
00:13:08
Speaker
a theory about that and some other things in connection with that. All right. Well, we can hop into 9.2 then. 9.2. Let's go. Yeah, let's do Keep it going. Victoria thinks of her past and Tristan gives some information on his power and Chris annoys the team.
00:13:25
Speaker
Breakthrough meets with Goddess who is gathering an army and get mastered.
00:13:34
Speaker
I don't like that. ah You guys got to stop. You got to stop meeting with the masters. Why are we choosing to do this? They keep getting baited. keep getting baited. That's true. but baed by them They're getting
00:13:50
Speaker
Yeah. Yes. Whoa, Hannah. Gross. Whoa. What do you mean? They're getting invaded by masters, Alan. Alan, get your mind out of the gutter, okay? It's fine when you say it like that, but how do you say it? Clean of mind, okay? Don't put this on me with your dirty mouth.
00:14:05
Speaker
What?
00:14:09
Speaker
Gross. But seriously, why And i I mean, to be fair, I was reading these chapters quickly because was a lot to get through. But i I was constantly being like, I don't quite get why they chose yeah to get close to the person they knew was controlling people.
00:14:30
Speaker
Right. So, and, and specifically, hold on. And to tack onto that, why we didn't consult with some other big names to be like, okay, we know goddesses in play.
00:14:42
Speaker
ah and she wants to meet with us, and we have like no time in which to decide whether we're going to meet or not, can we get some advice in here by Dragon or Valkyrie or literally anyone who understands big powers and may have a better sense of how Goddess's power works?
00:15:02
Speaker
Because like they're clearly trying circumvent things by doing the projections and not meeting in person with her, but like You guys.
00:15:14
Speaker
i think I think part of the problem, if I recall, is that because Goddess is from a different earth, there are no records of what she could actually specifically do. ah True. And so we know what she did. We know that she conquered an earth of her own and that she had a great army and lieutenants and everybody worshipped her.
00:15:33
Speaker
But we don't know how she did that, right? Yeah. And so I think that was... Which is... That was my... I think that was what I said and I didn't go back and listen to Verify.
00:15:45
Speaker
But I'm pretty sure I said something to the effect of goddess's power is... controlling or like taking other people's powers and that is basically what she does. Yeah. so um motion take my powers but She takes them along with it.
00:16:01
Speaker
Yes, exactly. um like she is a Her power is is aura farming basically. um Yeah. Sorry, Alan, go ahead. yeah but yeah we're not right yeah sorry alan go ahead Oh, was going to say, it's, it's ah you know, they they, I think the reason that they were doing it was just general information.
00:16:26
Speaker
You know, you've got this super person who's a big player reaching out. um So like, okay, you know, we'll talk. we've We've talked with villains before. We've had meetings with villains before um to see like, hey, essentially we're going to be coming into town. You just need to get out because, you know, and if you don't want to, then we're going to take all your stuff.
00:16:47
Speaker
Like they've had that sort of dialogue with villains before, you know come to an agreement. So why wouldn't this be any different? But they know she's super powerful. Now I agree. What they messed up is why the hell didn't they contact other people?
00:17:00
Speaker
I don't know. No clue. However, they they thought that 64 miles and a couple of holograms would keep them safe because why the hell wouldn't it?
00:17:11
Speaker
They don't know what her power is. They just know they're smart enough to be like, oh yeah, just we just don't be there. I think we'll be good. um But, you know, you don't fuck with somebody called Goddess and get away unscathed. so or Yeah.
00:17:27
Speaker
And i I feel like there's an implication that Goddess made too of like Well, a couple of things. One is they know she's planning something. She has an interest in the prison. so they want to try to figure out what her plans are.
00:17:39
Speaker
And I feel like there's an implication from Goddess of like, if you don't meet with me, then but I'm like... you're my enemy, basically. of like Yeah. Okay, well, let's maybe it's un neutral try to stay neutral or not become an enemy of a superpower. Yeah, and and the other people they're investigating are clearly at odds trying to do something with Goddess as well.
00:18:03
Speaker
you know Yeah. But in in opposition, and they know that, or suspect that. Yeah. yeah One thing I love about these chapters, and I'll maybe...
00:18:15
Speaker
Maybe credit Wildbow with more than he was intending, but this is how it came across, so I'm going to give him credit for it. But they're clearly like, all right, you know, best to deal with Goddess's enemies first, and then we'll deal with Goddess.
00:18:30
Speaker
kind of yacht That's kind of their their background plan here. But the way it's written really feels like from the POV side, it's it's we're seeing the master effects play into the writing, where they're already like kind of like Teacher, not ah they're They're not conscious that they are not attacking goddess because she doesn't want them to. Right. um And as i just it was this this whole arc was so much fun to read from that. Because like like through the lines, you can sort of see already that the master effects are in play. Very similar to the miasma bits in Worm. Yes, yes, yes, yes. Right?
00:19:09
Speaker
well like Yeah, yeah. You'd be like, we know what's going on. But just because of the way POV is written, it's he he does that very, very well. It's all fun. Yeah, yeah, for sure. Anytime the POV with master strangers, it's always so interesting. Oh, cool. Because you have like Imp just coming into and out of conversations where like people all of a sudden she's just gone and people forget like, didn't we have somebody else here?
00:19:32
Speaker
Or all of a sudden she's there and everybody freaks out because like, yeah oh yeah, I've been here the whole time. You know, ah to nice guy being in the room and then being like, right. Oh, yeah.
00:19:43
Speaker
I did a quick count and killed the person who was the odd man like oh ah yeah We're kind of getting into 9.3 as well, I think. So I can kind of throw that out there if we want to just put the whole quote. Yeah, let's just blend them little bit. One thing for the end of that, because I think it's the end of, is it the end of two where they get got?
00:20:02
Speaker
and the end of End of two. Yeah. and yeah yeah it's like they They do the look and they're like, oh, fuck, we got got. She knows we're not. i just put yeah Bianca, gotcha, bitch.
00:20:13
Speaker
um yeah Also, i I had a very confusing two things, too, that 9.2, there's a Sundancer name drop randomly.
Nostalgia and Character Updates
00:20:24
Speaker
And and yeah I had to reread it because the way it was written made me think, wait, a Sundancer with goddess? The way it was written for a second, i was like, no, I should name drop. Just talking about her power. But it did make me miss those guys. I miss Sundancer and Ballistic and Genesis. hey do don't just give me I really like the new characters. They've been growing on me a lot.
00:20:43
Speaker
Give me one arc of like, what are the Undersiders up to now? That's all I want. I need a little imp or a little tattletale or something. It does make me think how if you are a goddess and you're literally like mastering people, you own this planet.
00:21:00
Speaker
how absolutely frustrating would it be for this random portal to open and your brain just gets he yoinked with all your lieutenants and you're like, wait, no. ah my My empire. Yeah.
00:21:13
Speaker
yeah It's crumbling around me. it's because like what what How would Taylor feel about like if she got yoinked out of you know Brockton Bay at the height of her warlord? Oh, she'd be fucking pissed. She'd rip the world down.
00:21:24
Speaker
Yeah, and and for a neighborhood. woman had a planet Taylor. and was like barely older than taylor Yeah. yeah and blame And there's a description later of goddess, but it's relevant here too with this conversation is how she is a spoiled teenager who became the most powerful cape in her planet and ran the planet and has not grown out of being a spoiled teenager.
00:21:53
Speaker
And if that's not the most horrifying yeah combination of things, like dear Lord, Yeah. I'm going to point things in this before we move on. B. Ferroni said they thought that the wild bow scene that inspired victorious protagonist was the arc one scene where the wretch is pressing against the glass.
00:22:14
Speaker
Also very iconic imagery. yeah yeah So ah maybe that's the case. yeah ah Fran pointed out in something we'll get into that Amy was immune to the bone saw miasma. So we'll we'll get bri into that a little bit later.
00:22:31
Speaker
Good point. That's good. actually That actually ties into my theory for later. Yeah, There's a couple other things that we'll point out later on when we get to them that I notice are mentioned in chat, but we'll get to those.
00:22:44
Speaker
And then J-Man's goddess is my favorite depiction of mind control in any media ever. ah always thought alignment was a metaphor for propaganda in the real world and how you legit think another person's goals are yours.
00:22:58
Speaker
um which I don't know about it being a metaphor, but I do think it is a very good simile for, you know, comparison. Definitely.
00:23:09
Speaker
It's, yeah, yeah, it's it's one of the better mind control descriptions that I've seen. yeah Because most of the time you have mind control and it it does kind of operate like the nice guy thing where it's just a complete blank space to the mind control itself.
00:23:30
Speaker
But this one, there is breakdowns in the logic of the mind control that can be exploited. um And I enjoy that because like they said, it's not mind control.
00:23:42
Speaker
It's alignment. And that's such a subtle difference. That's a world of importance when it comes to how the characters operate. It's maybe less like propaganda and more like a cult leader where you begin to believe that what the cult, what the cult leader wants is what you want as well.
00:24:00
Speaker
um quite Literally the power of a cult of personality. We're like, oh, well, yeah, if Yada clearly has the best ideas, so whatever she needs, we'll make sure she gets, you know. right Right. I'm not saying propaganda is explicit from that example either.
00:24:15
Speaker
True. Yeah. Do we think there's a similarity between or um a uh, you know, between teacher and goddess having either like, uh, a sister shards essentially from, um, maybe Eden and Sion. They do say they're very similar, with kind of like inverse of each other a bit.
00:24:38
Speaker
Yeah. Like, yeah. Cause one's almost, yeah. Giving powers. Yeah. And then taking control of them. And one is taking control of them to be able to use that person.
00:24:50
Speaker
Yeah. Um, I do, once again, like to point out that I think thematically... I'm sticking with my, the theme of ward is autonomy.
00:25:02
Speaker
And I think oh yeah teacher and ah teacher and Amy and a goddess and goddess are just all in the chapter, just the whole thing fits right into there.
00:25:17
Speaker
And we'll get into the how ah but autonomy fits into the Capricorn saga love as well. Cause all that I feels like. Can't wait. i had o Let's keep moving. cuts yeah i'm point three yeah Yeah, go for it We're doing good. we're good We're good. Breakthrough makes plans with the Goddess. Amy and Victoria briefly talk.
00:25:38
Speaker
Chris leaves. Capricorn becomes Byron and fights Victoria, making her really aware that she's been seriously mastered. Oh, yeah.
00:25:49
Speaker
Thanks, Nick. and I'm just putting the emphasis on whoever wrote these summaries the way I think they want me to read it. Of course, yeah. I know you're doing a service.
00:26:01
Speaker
I do find it funny that because it seems like Amy is sort of outside of Goddess's influence, Victoria's alignment with the Goddess also does not extend to how Goddess feels about Amy.
00:26:16
Speaker
Because it is this like, Goddess, whatever you say, shut the fuck up, Amy. Yeah. yeah Yes, guys. you know just Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. The black and white of that is so interesting to me.
00:26:29
Speaker
Just constantly. Am I going to have to choke a bitch? like Am I going to come over there and murder you right now? Yeah. Well, you got to work on that emphasis. Did pause in the wrong place again? I'm sorry. I'm sorry. Am going to come?
00:26:45
Speaker
um I'm sorry. so No, okay. So with no. Michael clipped that. Nobody clipped that. Nobody clipped that. Sometimes I forget that we're recording. I often forget we're recording.
00:27:02
Speaker
No, no, no. Okay, so my point where I get completely forgot what I was trying to say. um The sense of, like, spite of, like, while Victoria obviously is under the, I don't even want to say thrall because that's a teacher's thing, under the influence and alignment of goddess, like, she's still so opposed to ah to
Amy and Victoria's Relationship
00:27:23
Speaker
Amy. And this this this spite thing almost of, like, even if I wasn't you know, being mastered, you know, in this moment.
00:27:34
Speaker
Fuck you. I'm not doing anything you say ever. Like, how do you not get that this is not going? It doesn't matter if you're trying to save my life. You're trying to come in here and be the hero. Fuck you, Amy.
00:27:51
Speaker
Like, I'm not going to listen to you. I don't trust anything you say. What makes you think I ever would? And like her stupidity, like, oh, and I was I was standing over there when I was listening because I'm you know, I listen to the audio book and I'm like over here sewing or, you know, typing or whatever I'm doing.
00:28:12
Speaker
I was over there pacing because I was like, this bitch does not get it. And I don't understand how she doesn't get it. Like.
00:28:24
Speaker
Is she stupid? Yes. Yeah. yeah In the words of Fran in chat, oh, so just because Amy is working with a dictator and people are calling her the Red Queen and she has an evil goblin minion on her shoulder, oh, so she's the bad guy now?
00:28:41
Speaker
Now, as opposed to what she used to be, because holy Yeah, yeah, yeah. And Bernard, ah whether or not anybody realized that Antares is influenced by goddess, I do think that everybody in the room knew that they were influenced by goddess ah because...
00:28:58
Speaker
That was just part of the power. and Sveta exchange glances and basically give the knowing nod like, oh yeah, we got God. Like, now we are aligned. Everybody knows that. um What they don't know is that Capricorn Blue isn't aligned until he outs himself and then they're like, hmm, which he does almost immediately.
00:29:18
Speaker
However, Natalie has no clue what's going on at all because she's a normal person and is completely like out of like what's going on here. Yeah. And she's not there for this conversation.
00:29:29
Speaker
We just have to point out that the most dangerous person in this universe is coil sniper. Just got to say it once more. Yeah. Which, yeah you know, yeah I'll give a viian ah one of my things is like, I feel like the train has come around.
00:29:46
Speaker
ah Natalie, after being, you know, an absolute badass in the last chapter, the unpowered person taking on, you know, the the thugs and the super powered thugs, you know, in a home invasion scenario and getting stabbed a pretty wicked scar for it.
00:30:05
Speaker
you know, and still keeps fighting like a champ, um then walks in and is like, I'm in a room of people who could maybe kill me. What the hell is going on? And then like kind of realizing like, you know what? We just got to go with it. And she becomes the the rock.
00:30:21
Speaker
The like, hey, if everything goes south, just listen to whatever Natalie tells you. I'm like, you're damn right. You should have always listened to what Natalie told you. Pretty much. Yeah. You know, I feel like the star is rising in her corner. Yeah. Yeah.
00:30:36
Speaker
Yeah, and I just, I i do love the the moment. I think I was catching on that something was going on with Goddess and them controlling them. Like, everybody was too way too agreeable with Goddess.
00:30:46
Speaker
Yeah. Especially in Gris, of all people, being so agreeable. I was like, mm-hmm. And so when Byron pops out, and I imagine Tristan's doing this whole, like, Byron, just a little bit more time.
00:30:58
Speaker
And then the switch, and Byron's immediately like, like I love it. It's just the guns, like super power guns out to everybody. Let's not do anything. like, let's not do anything. Y'all are crazy.
00:31:13
Speaker
Yeah. and I love it. And then just has the whisper of like master stranger in Victoria. Like, ah the play yeah i I feel like we need some sort of, and I'm sure like computers can get hacked, but we need a non-hackable computer algorithm that can read the room and just like makes this giant neon light on the wall, just like blinking, flashing neon, master, stranger. like it's I don't remember what what episode it is, but like in Doctor Who, where like you look down, all of a sudden you have these like
00:31:44
Speaker
hash marks on your arm and you're like, whoa, where did those come from? And then you like look away and you forget and you look back down and now both arms are just covered in hash marks. And then you turn the corner and you look in a mirror and every inch of your skin is covered in hash marks because you keep forgetting that you're supposed to know and remember. And like when you remember, you write it you know you do a hash mark on your arm and then you forget because you looked away. And I'm like, okay, we need we need ah system you better alert us to master stranger like why didn't we have something in effect for this scenario again I don't think they were expecting a master stranger I think they were expecting super powerful but not yeah but she took over our planet
00:32:28
Speaker
Yeah, but we didn't know how. We we were assuming, i guess, like la Superman style where you're just the biggest baddest. think part of what part of what confuses it, right, is that she had she had an army of parahuman lieutenants.
00:32:41
Speaker
And so you're thinking, i guess but well, surely she didn't mind control everybody. She must have just been hot. But we all, we all, who have less information than these people. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:32:53
Speaker
We have less information than them. And we were all like, yeah, it's mind control. there's a like Yeah. That reminds me of like um turning the pyramid scheme of powers. There's a ah fantasy series that's coming out called The Will of the Many.
00:33:08
Speaker
First book came out. Really interesting. Next book's coming out in November. But the concept is you give you give your will to people and that's what gives you like powers eventually.
00:33:19
Speaker
um It's literally just a pyramid
Goddess's Power Dynamics
00:33:21
Speaker
scheme. like now if Now I'm at the top, but if you can get 10 people to cede some of their will to you and you cede that will to me, then we'll all be more powerful. you know um and it's exact that's I can see that being with goddess. like na now You guys give me a little bit of your powers, but you go out convince other pericumans to also give me some of their powers.
00:33:41
Speaker
Right. to me And then you too can drive a pink Kia. Exactly. As Fran does.
00:33:51
Speaker
As Fran points out, her power only works on super on parahumans. So if you have any average citizen on that planet, they probably don't even know that she has mind control. True.
00:34:03
Speaker
also don't know. It's such a subtle power. Right. Yeah. Like she just, oh, why did you decide to work with her? I mean, she's the most powerful hero. Yeah, it seemed like the right thing to do.
00:34:17
Speaker
We aligned. of our values align. Yeah. Isn't that the Yongbon? Like, no, that's communist powers. yeah It's communism. It's different. I think you nailed it with the night sky comparison. It is very similar to where it's like, it's not mind control. It's just like, oh yeah, that's that's a nice guy.
00:34:35
Speaker
Yeah, he we know him. He's chill as hell. wrong you know Except nice guy like if you saw on camera nice guy, you could explain what was going on.
00:34:48
Speaker
right If you saw on camera goddess, and then she was a little bit clever about it, you could essentially chalk it up to her being convincing and super strong as to why she like got certain people onto her team.
00:35:03
Speaker
yeah And she has other powers too, right? She's got danger. She's got telepathy. Yeah, he's yeah exactly. So it it wouldn't even have to be like, it would be the Superman thing where it's like, well, maybe she's just the most powerful. Yeah.
00:35:16
Speaker
you know yeah I'm curious. I wonder if... right and maybe I'm assuming we'll get into it because I'm wondering if if she has the ability to hold on to certain powers she takes like permanently. I think so. Maybe by killing them or something. I don't know. but well that's That's what I was wondering right because she talked about how there's a girl who's taken one of my powers and I want to get her back so I can get the power back.
00:35:36
Speaker
yeah It makes me wonder... if if it's not only that alignment, but maybe it is, again, like the opposite of teacher, like the longer you're around her, she takes some of your power away slowly over time.
00:35:49
Speaker
something But you can take it back from her if you break free of her control somehow. Right, right. Something like that. i We do know that she is a cluster trigger. Yeah.
00:35:59
Speaker
Right, we do, yeah. yeah um But it's like, what if you what if you cluster triggered, but everybody had god tier powers? yeah So like... Although maybe maybe then it's more like the person who stole the power from her is a member of her cluster and it's more like how Rain said, you know, they take turns like getting chips from the sky.
00:36:20
Speaker
Maybe they have their own dream world, but she was like, no, I've gotten all the powers. And then in that dream world, somebody stole one. don't know. Just theorizing ideas. Because they like they do describe that that dream world is unique to that cluster.
00:36:34
Speaker
um Yeah. That other clusters don't operate the same way. Yeah. um My other thought was that it was... Yeah, that she just like, these are all my powers. Yeah.
00:36:45
Speaker
My other thought was that the person that she's like trying to get back her power from was someone who was one of her lieutenants that came in with her and then died somehow and Valkyrie schlooped up that soul, as it were. And so now Valkyrie holds that power and Goddess has to like...
00:37:08
Speaker
Goddess has to hunt down Valkyrie at some point, which would be cool to bring Valkyrie back because i I love Valkyrie. We do need Valkyrie back at some point. Yeah, another one of my favorite caves from Worm that just has not been in Ward enough.
00:37:20
Speaker
But like i I think something like that is kind of what I was thinking, is that it's like you know it's it's bigger than just like snatching back the person. But like how do you but do you get rid of her influence? Well, you die. And Valkyrie takes your soul. So...
00:37:38
Speaker
Yeah. ah fra Fran pointed out, I guess we, oh, Michael. No, go ahead. oh good I was going to say Fran pointed out, a good job guessing that she had Spidey sense last week, by the way.
00:37:49
Speaker
guess we, we did nail that. Somebody guessed that. yeah yeah Good for them. Yeah. Danger sense. Like we're geniuses or something. It's like we've we've read a few of these before.
00:38:02
Speaker
I will say one last thought on this chapter, just and I will touch on it, I'm sure, throughout this whole arc, but another thing Wild Boat does very well, we've talked about a lot, but the way he writes character interactions and dynamics, and I i really appreciate that it This story, when it would start, feels like the type of story where you would expect a redemption arc for Amy or a redemption of the Victoria, Amy, friendship, you know sisterhood, all that kind of stuff. yeah I think a lesser author would have gone that route.
00:38:34
Speaker
And I appreciate that despite it hitting those notes, I don't want that to happen and I don't want, and it doesn't feel like we're getting that, which I think is a good thing, but like it's Amy's not up for redemption in this story in Victoria's eyes.
00:38:54
Speaker
And if it comes at all, I can only see it coming as like a heroic sacrifice where Amy dies, something like that to sort of in depth, give Victoria some closure.
00:39:06
Speaker
But other than that, I love the dynamic between both Victoria and Amy that is so unsatisfying for them, but feels appropriate given what we know as the audience.
00:39:19
Speaker
It's almost the inverse of when overly sarcastic productions talks about, um, arcane, what makes arcane really amazing is the unbreakable bonds of love that all of these characters have another person that they're essentially,
00:39:37
Speaker
they just will not budge on. And there are so many times where the easy option is to break that bond or like to have it, you know, like, oh my gosh, the betrayal and then turn away from them. And like, ah but they never do that for any of these people.
00:39:57
Speaker
And that become makes things really complicated because all of a sudden the writing is really difficult. And it feels like this is the opposite where it's the unbreakable bond of hate, where you have Amy and Victoria interacting.
00:40:11
Speaker
And there's all these ties that are associated with them, like their mother and all this. We're like, no matter what, even if goddess is right there.
00:40:22
Speaker
Yeah. victoria will never work with any yeah yeah She will die before that happens. I haven't seen ah Bojack Horseman, but I've seen the clip because it comes up on like character tropes a lot on Reddit. but of the like Somebody's saying to him, Bojack tries to apologize to him, and he's like, I don't have to forgive you.
00:40:43
Speaker
like Yeah, you can do this big speech. You can apologize. You can say, but i'm not i don't owe you closure. And I feel like that's kind of the essential same thing here where Amy is like, I'm doing the right thing. I'm apologizing. I'm trying to make things better.
00:40:57
Speaker
um she's like, i don't I don't owe you any sort of closure in me. yeah You don't deserve that. Yeah, absolutely. And I appreciate that. Because it's for her. It's for Amy. She's apologizing for herself so she can feel better. It's not about Victoria because Victoria even says at one point ah later on when they leave um the the whole thing about like, well, if she really cared, if she really did feel sorry, she would go because she knows that I don't want to see her and that nothing she could say or do would change that. And they walk outside and there Amy is right there next to next to goddess. And it's like, see,
00:41:35
Speaker
Because it's not about Victoria. It's about Amy, which.
00:41:39
Speaker
Yeah. I hate Amy so much. ah so Yeah. Oh, my God. As Fran ah points out, readers really did give a bunch of excuses to Amy, which I know is a consistent argument in the ah and the the worm ah called culture?
00:41:58
Speaker
Cult? We'll go with worm cult. That's what I mean. Worm cult? Yeah. And it says in part because most of the fandom didn't see the implications of sexual assault in the Carol interlude, which yeah I was one of because...
00:42:11
Speaker
as some beautiful soul asked just straight out can i just get a yes or no that's what happened and finally wild bow was like yes there was sexual assault i'm like thank you that's all i needed to hear yeah you really danced around it and it it could go either way the way you describe it can we just get a yes or no yeah And the answer is yes Amy is as horrible as possible.
00:42:38
Speaker
And yeah everything she does is terrible. That makes me so emotionally ill. Yeah. which yeah ah Yeah, we'll get to that later.
00:42:53
Speaker
Truett points out ah that Cluster Mechanics, one of their favorite parts, the pair of humans, and the K-70s, which we'll get to and later on, ah are a good address to the twin archetype in superhero media.
00:43:05
Speaker
One of my favorite parts about... Wild Bo writing these is just how he sneaked in just very stereotypical tropes into these things.
00:43:16
Speaker
yeah like And here we have the twin superhero thing. We actually have multiple examples of like what I'll describe as twinning superheroes um later on.
00:43:29
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. Well, I think we can put 9.4 and 9.5 together. I think they go pretty well together, so I'm going to read them um Just in the interest of time.
Major Malfunctions and Conflicts
00:43:40
Speaker
ah Victoria convinces a Breakthrough that Byron being active is acceptable.
00:43:44
Speaker
Capricorn and Antares visit the major malfunctions, and they are attacked by Teacher's Thralls. 9.5, the major malfunctions Victoria and Byron finish dealing with Teacher's Thralls.
00:43:55
Speaker
Their purple fire cape is revealed to be the prison's pharmacist, but she gets away.
00:44:03
Speaker
um couple of couple of funny quotes is in 9.4. Kinsey describes herself as a low-key Enzy, which I thought was adorable.
00:44:14
Speaker
It was really cute. Because she's convincing them Byron's cool, and she's like, Kinsey, you good? She's like, oh, I'm low-key Enzy. if It felt like the... Baby, we are cool. Welcome to downtown Coolsville. Yeah, I was i was thinking, i was like, what what what is that where there's like, you know, cool, know, what what what is that from?
00:44:35
Speaker
It's from the Iron Giant. It's from Iron Giant. Yeah, yeah. Just this motion. Population. I'm hip. I'm hip. Yeah.
00:44:42
Speaker
us no
00:44:48
Speaker
Exactly. You guys give me so much life. Yeah. um great Major malfunctions are cute. And then the funny one to me is in 9.5. It opens with Victoria surrounded by fire.
00:45:02
Speaker
And the phrase Wild Bo chose to use for her is in the heat of the moment. yeah the I love it when he whips out his fun little play on words. It's always like so cheeky.
00:45:19
Speaker
gives me kind of like that Taylor mentality of like, oh who ah was that funny guys? And we're all like, yes, that was hilarious. We loved it. Thank you so much. Please another. You been good. You been good. You but don't have too much to say about these, but I do. I have to go. I'll be right back.
00:45:34
Speaker
ah But you guys carry on without me for a moment. ah ah that Nick being a good parent. Dad heard calls. Yeah. ah Yeah, i I really love seeing the malfunction junctions again. What's your malfunction?
00:45:49
Speaker
They're so cute. Working with powers way out in Dakotas. They're adorable. I love them. Also, just the whole, like when they first show up, um is it finale? Finale is like, we did it wrong. We did it out of order. And they're all like, we she i she's focused on this. Can you please just like reassure her that it's fine? And it was like, okay, well, what did you do? it's like, well, we hit person number one on the list.
00:46:13
Speaker
And then we saw that person number two showed up. So we switched to follow them. She's like, we didn't follow number one. And then she's like, no that was good. You did the right thing. She's like, oh, we did?
00:46:24
Speaker
Oh, great. It's so cute. Oh, my gosh, I love it. They're so green. For having been out here for at least a little bit, they're so green, which makes it more endearing that they're just so ready go. They do kick ass.
00:46:41
Speaker
They literally fight an army. i think I mean, they end up like catching like what, 30 or 40 of them left over. oh yeah but the implication is there was like 200 of them.
00:46:57
Speaker
Yeah, there was ah there was a ton. ah So much fun. So much fun. Purple fire was a little freaky. the Purple fire is extremely freaky. Because like, ah what's her face? You know, being invulnerable. um yeah or I forget.
00:47:15
Speaker
I want to say caratid. Or caratid. Caratid? or Yeah. Caratid. ah doing like trying to become invulnerable and do the thing. And it just makes the fire like combust and get worse.
00:47:30
Speaker
And so she's trying to do the thing that makes her invulnerable to, you know, all of this. And it's just lighting her on fire more. Yeah. And that's terrifying.
00:47:43
Speaker
Like a little bit of it gets on on the wretch essentially and like catches the wretch on fire. And she's like, whoa. You basically got to like just drop it. You know? Yeah. The concept of lighting your powers on fire is oh just terrifying.
00:48:02
Speaker
Yeah, it's it falls into that weird category of some of the other ah powers that we've seen before um that are like use powers against you, basically. Like use your own powers against you. And like the nullifier powers and stuff like that. it's It falls into that weird category where it's like it's better to not be power in this case just so that you don't get affected by the the bullshit that's about to happen.
00:48:31
Speaker
ah yeah Hannah doesn't like fire Hannah doesn't do good with fire ah so that was really panicky I'm not going to lie the the fire bits I i kind of skimmed through a little bit faster ah because I was like I don't need fire thank you ah when when Carrie added got hit I was like oh no she better be okay I'm going to be pissed if she's ah not okay right yeah ah She did get pretty burned.
00:49:03
Speaker
did She came out of it okay. yeah Yeah, she was alright. A special shout out to um just Finale being like doing the little you the whole time and it's like you kind of just like knocking into people but it's not like it's not doing much.
00:49:30
Speaker
Yeah. And, you know, then you finally get the finale, the climax of, you you know, where it's like, do the thing. And she's like, okay. And then like all of the spots that she'd hit it, like hit people start going off.
00:49:47
Speaker
Like the real power isn't her hitting them. That's just like attaching the sticky grenades to them. And then all of the sticky grenades go off in any random order.
00:49:59
Speaker
Yeah, exactly. i love ah The idea of youre like trying to like bounce them together. Yes, like knock them into each other. It's so good. was like, okay, this is cool. This is cool.
00:50:10
Speaker
yeah Yeah, cool power for sure. um Yeah. Because everybody's blasted and she's just under pew, pew, pew. And it's like, is she doing anything? Not really. that ah And then it pays off.
00:50:26
Speaker
Yeah. really fun crazy and she's so like her name makes disappointed yeah she's so disappointed in herself too like she's like ah people fall weird i've only practiced on sandbags i'm sorry and victoria's like you did fine you stopped from everybody and she's like i could have been smoother like it just i didn't quite get the pattern i wanted going you know yeah I'm just waiting for her and Kenzie to me and be best friends because I feel like she and Kenzie have that similar energy of just like, oh man, I want to be helpful, but like, oh man, and I messed up. And it's like, no, you did fantastic. Like, okay. Like, I'm just happy to be here.
00:51:05
Speaker
Like, I think that they'll be great friends once they hang out a little bit more. Whatever the hell, what, what the hell does the other one do? I'm still trying to figure out what he does. This orange guy? wind What's his name?
00:51:18
Speaker
He's shooting out everywhere. Withdrawal. Withdrawal. Withdrawal. Like it makes him fast. I caught that. He's got the like power thing. Sprinting around liquefying things. Oh, he sprint. like sprayed it on the ground. So he like zoom, zoom, zoomed across the ground. Like he was ice skating across it. And then it went up a wall and he was able to go up the wall. So Nick, have you played Portal 2? Yes.
00:51:41
Speaker
Smidge. Okay. So in Portal 2, there's a bunch of goo with different effects. One gives you like super slidey, one is bouncy, and so you like put it on different surfaces.
00:51:52
Speaker
ah What I imagine is he both has that ability where like he can take the giant... ah syringe and shoot different effects that he can then use.
00:52:04
Speaker
But also, I think his suit kind of feels like it's pneumatic. Like if you've ever made syringe-operated machinery for kids. um but he can do he like That's how a suit is powered. So he's like bounding around.
00:52:17
Speaker
And then he's also just using the giant syringe to bonk people. yeah So, like, it you know, yeah yeah that it doesn't seem to be much else other than that.
00:52:28
Speaker
Um, um good yeah so I think that's all. Interesting. So I guess is this Tinker Specialty Liquids then? I think it's like yeah think it's a like so it feels like it's syringe.
00:52:44
Speaker
Yeah, it's because pneumatic would be air, but I guess hydraulics in a way. like Maybe, yeah. like a high Tinker Specialty of Hydraulic. As Bernard is pointing out, the slime and stuff feels very similar to Gregor the Snail.
00:52:58
Speaker
Yeah, yeah. Oh, yeah, kind of. Okay. Interesting. Very interesting. Everybody clearly loves this episode. I mean, this this part because we're getting like a lot more comments.
00:53:10
Speaker
So yeah we'll we'll read comments as we go, but I guess, Alan, you should continue doing what you're doing where we kind hit the highlights at the end. I'm just reading the questions and stuff. Yeah.
00:53:20
Speaker
Anything that like is, you know, just, you know, adoration on people. You're doing good. I just just pointed it out. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. um But ah they they beat back like 200 people of just teacher minions, you know, just literally coming through en masse and shooting ray guns and shitty laser guns everywhere. Yeah.
00:53:46
Speaker
yeah
00:53:48
Speaker
I just love all the bad lines from like the old X-Men movies. but Like in X-Men 3, when they're storming the ah Alcatraz or whatever it is, and Magneto goes, In chess, the pawns go first.
00:54:02
Speaker
It's horde lackeys. It's like a teacher out there doing his best Magneto impression. He's definitely wearing a cape. Oh, for sure.
00:54:14
Speaker
It feels very much... like the putties in Power Rangers where they're just like mindless, gray-suited, thoughtless beings that are for the heroes to knock down. Yeah. yeah you is it i mean mean, I feel like it's supposed to be a good strategy. Just like, you know, wear your heroes out a little bit.
00:54:36
Speaker
Which like, yes, but also... And very clearly... A lot of people are mindless Zambonis. Exactly. And you know what? Very clearly, they're they're expendable, right? Like, there's the one important person they're trying to get out. but The putties are expendable.
00:54:49
Speaker
yeah and yeah Yeah. And I was going to say, and you know what? You're actually on the money about, I think, the, like, putty analogy. Because in ah Power Rangers, you typically have the putties, which are your mindless, you know, getting in the way.
00:55:03
Speaker
And they can sometimes be a little overwhelming. Like, they tire the Power Rangers down. But in the middle of those fights, they also have whatever the mods for the week is. And then that guy comes in and really wrecks your shit.
00:55:16
Speaker
um And in this case, that is how we've described how they operate is it's just like swarm them by numbers and then send in a couple specialty guys to deal with whatever the problem is.
00:55:27
Speaker
um yeah And goddesses even, Hey, we don't want to, you know, I don't want to set off the teacher button because they're going to swarm me with these little guys. And then they're going to hit me with specialized powers, like powered people that he's recruited, which we'll see later. Yeah.
00:55:46
Speaker
Yeah, I can imagine. um He seems to have quite a handle on his plan of how he's going I guess, take over the world. I don't know. We don't really know what his game is in his end game as yet.
00:56:02
Speaker
Yeah. Well, move it on nine point six and you and go it on.
Cape Lifestyle and Character Interactions
00:56:09
Speaker
9.6. 9.6. Victoria talks with Jester. Byron reveals the hit that Tristan called on both of them.
00:56:16
Speaker
Kinsey figures out how teacher's portal machine works and plans to prevent anyone from leaving the prison world. ah Very cute Jester and Victoria moment. and and Love Jester.
00:56:32
Speaker
Oh my God. Yeah. I just now put together the hit of
00:56:42
Speaker
Oh, from the glow worm thing? Glow worm. Yep. That didn't even wrong my mind. I'm like, he's like, yeah, he was like super, you know, Mr. Smarty Pants putting the whole thing up and like trying to drop people.
00:57:02
Speaker
You know? Makes sense. Hannah... May or may not just be really stupid or have really short-term memory, but which we already know i do have. It's for Mencha.
00:57:15
Speaker
You know, i know my the glowworm Mencha is real strong. i Wow. Okay. Yeah, well, no, i I was glad you brought that up, though, because it was funny. I was like, i it was still in the back of my mind, but I'd kind of forgotten ah about that whole bit in Glow Worm and that we put together it was Tristan.
00:57:35
Speaker
And then we're like, oh oh this is what it... So it's this is the most aggressive purity accountability group and is is my analogy is what I'm, it's like, you know, like if you, if you have like a super, if anybody grew up in like super intense Christian culture, you'll understand, but like the intense men's accountability group where it's like, all right, like we've got to tell everybody what we did this week that was sinful on the internet. Yeah.
00:58:04
Speaker
You know, this is that. Oh, my God. All right. Everybody confess. And if you've watched any porn, we're going to crush your balls. No, yeah. It's just it's the like, i don't know remember what it's called, like watchful eyes or something on your computer. But like the moment you click on something, it just shoots you in the head.
00:58:22
Speaker
Yeah. Covenant eyes. Yeah, yeah. Covenant eyes. There we go. Yeah. I didn't have it on his face. So that was...
00:58:33
Speaker
and It's funny. That's so funny, though, because girls had the modesty accountability. So it was always like you had your accountability friend to be like, um your so your shirt's a little tight. Like, I can see your boobs.
00:58:46
Speaker
Look, it's a shirt. I know i can't do anything about that. oh Wow. ah guys yeah I had my modesty, buddy, but for my tight shirts. Make sure your your hands weren't too baggy. ah Exactly. like My modesty buddies were terrible. hit low It is right there.
00:59:06
Speaker
if Yeah. um But no, it it is. and again, because the analogy that came to mind is like the the extreme cults were that take certain parts of the Bible literally where they're like, you know, if you struggle with lust, cut your, ah gouge your eyes out.
00:59:24
Speaker
It feels like sin is doing that. He's like, you know what? I can't control myself. I got to have an extreme measure to make sure I treat Byron right, which we'll talk about later. I got to have some extreme measures in place to make sure I treat Byron right.
00:59:37
Speaker
these people are going to kill us if I don't think quo know. we'll We'll even say it's not us. They're going to kill him. yeah Yeah, exactly. So that he's in purgatory forever and in pieces.
00:59:55
Speaker
like that's the That's the goal is that they dismember him and then he switches back. And then he switches into Byron because their injuries don't swap, right? Their bodies are separate.
01:00:08
Speaker
Correct. They just occupy the exact same space. and What the hell, man? so what um You know, i I can appreciate it, though. Yeah. Knowing what we know later, it makes more sense. yeah But in the moment, I'm like, this is the kind of situation only a teenage boy would come up with without thinking about it too deeply. Yeah, right.
01:00:29
Speaker
How old is Capricorn? I mean, at this point, he's 17, I believe. Yeah. Okay, I thought he was like, i thought he was like just 18 or something. He might have yeah been just 18 because he's 15 when we're dealing with all the adult.
01:00:44
Speaker
He's... He's 15 with all the issues ah that we're dealing with in the interludes. That's pre-Gold Morning. Yeah, and it's been two years since. success yeah Yeah. So, you know, it could be, it we're assuming it's minimum two years, could be more, so could be 18 close.
01:01:04
Speaker
I mean, apparently the whole story has been taking place over the last, like, 10 days, so... i keep in the And I'm so aware of it now where every time they're like, wow, that was crazy last night. I was like... and That was actually last night? God damn. just Breathe.
01:01:19
Speaker
Breathe. I feel like Wild Bo's timeline doesn't make sense in a way. In the sense of like, oh, Natalie had a wicked scar. I'm like, not if she got stabbed last night. She still got like stitches. It's a lot of stitches. Yeah.
01:01:36
Speaker
that i don't know I feel like maybe it's author brain though. I get it when you're like, right. About how long should this take? Like a week? a day Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. you got a show where It was pretty bad. Like how long you going to be in there? How many months?
01:01:52
Speaker
Yeah. A couple hours. of Yeah. How much could a banana cost? $10. I mean, nowadays, just about.
01:02:02
Speaker
Yeah. Right. It's about. do but Yeah. Yeah, Tristan does not do any middle ground on anything. It's either one side or the other. so it's the only extremes.
01:02:18
Speaker
So, ah you know, you just, what's, all man, I've got to fix the problem that I caused, which we'll get to later.
01:02:29
Speaker
Better hire a hitman. Yeah, what's the only solution? i guess I'll have somebody kill myself. Like, Jeez, man. Alright. It was nice to see Jester.
01:02:43
Speaker
Love seeing Jester. Also, I love the little conversation. Yeah. The little conversation that happens with him and Victoria about the whole like, yeah, really like you i Yeah.
01:02:58
Speaker
yeah But also just like he's so I mean, he's one of those ah on Powered people that just really like Natalie, like really admires powered capes and wants to be around them and like wants to be there to help to be the assistance and like to have the cool, you know, call sign and and just like be part of the team of like that kind of starry eyed magic.
01:03:27
Speaker
of capes and like being part of something great and like i think he's just the sweetest little peach but like his his just i just kind of like i just i really like you guys and i just want to help and i want to be here and like i told gil to put me on any team that was with you guys because i want to be there with you guys like that is the sweetest thing and vicky just like punches him in the shoulder like thanks bud And then he's like, how's that Ashley friend of yours? And she's like, eyebrow raise. And he's like, what? She's hot. And we hung out a lot. She's also nice. And I like her. And like you guys. And he's adorable. Oh, I love him.
01:04:13
Speaker
So cute. yeah yes Respect the game. Yeah. I just want to be that guy that you like about to go in the situation go like, you got my back, dude. And like, yeah. Yeah, man.
01:04:26
Speaker
like It's adorable. i love that. It's very sweet. It's very endearing. yeah For sure. Yeah. Moving on past nine, nine, seven, and nine, seven.
01:04:41
Speaker
Yeah. Nine, seven. These last few chapters, we're going to pick up a bit here. I was about to say, I feel like some of these also blend just a little bit because I have certain thoughts about the ah influence, like being under goddess's influence and like some some of the things that um Victoria thinks about to like keep her brain on track.
01:05:01
Speaker
But like, I kind of want to hold those thoughts off till later, but I don't have to, but it's fine. Let's just keep going. yeah Also, B4Oni points out that Tristan didn't have any chill because Byron had all the ice powers.
01:05:16
Speaker
how Wow. That was good. Good job. All right. and That was good.
01:05:28
Speaker
late but There we go. Good one. 9-7. ah Kinsey explains how she'll be interfering with the portals. They alert God of the plan. Kinsey locks the prison down and Byron gives up switching to Tristan.
01:05:43
Speaker
um I did think that was funny. They're like, hey, goddess, here's the plan. And she's like, cool, I'm outside. Let me in. And they're like, wait, what? Yeah. but And then Byron's like, wait, wait.
01:05:54
Speaker
ah Wait, wait, wait.
Sveta's Struggles and Influence
01:06:01
Speaker
Oh, well. Damn it. This section, it's not mentioned in the summary, but Sveta is making me wildly uncomfortable.
01:06:08
Speaker
um Me too. gosh i just like that she is She is so... I feel like there's like... I'm aligned with goddess and Sveta is like...
01:06:19
Speaker
way too far gone. I'm like, oh, this too gung-ho. She's absolutely cooked. she' like She's like, you right Victoria, come here real quick. Do I need to kill Byron right now? Like, whoa, I will. You have to leave. I'll murder him.
01:06:37
Speaker
Because I don't think he's on RT. he I didn't like the color of his shirt. he You think he's wearing blue because like, he's trying to make fun of goddess? Because I'll kill him. yeah Exactly.
01:06:49
Speaker
Well, she's quick to jump on Victoria too to kind of be like, well, like, are you ah you with us or are you against? And you're like, whoa, calm down. Everybody else in the room, like you said, Nick, like everybody else is like, bitch, chill. like <unk>re We're on goddess's team, but we're not like that on goddess's team.
01:07:10
Speaker
and Even Kenzie's not like about to shoot somebody. It's just also the fact that I can easily imagine if you could see like through her body armor or like wriggling tentacles or just like raring to go. of Just like, you're like, okay, I got, I'll take care of him for you if you need me.
01:07:27
Speaker
Anything. What's the, uh, so funny. The line from hot rod. been drinking green tea all day. Yeah.
01:07:37
Speaker
going to bring the demons out of me.
01:07:42
Speaker
ah so um Yeah. Yeah. There's multiple conversations of like the, like to kind of like prove your loyalty or like question your loyalty of like, if you had to kill everyone on the planet, would you? And they're like, I, I, well, if she wanted to destroy the planet, I try and evacuate everyone first. And they're like, well what if she wanted to destroy everyone without evacuating them? She's like,
01:08:06
Speaker
Well, guess she had a good reason to do it. No, she says no. She does say no. She's like, no. And everyone's like, hmm. Fran does point out that Sveta does probably by far have the biggest kill count.
01:08:20
Speaker
Oh, for sure. It's true. Unintentional. Well, you know, after this conversation, it's like, was it? Well. Yeah. No. yeah how No. Maybe maybe that's what's part of it is there is that there's that part of her, maybe not the part she likes, but the shard part of her that enjoys the killing and that's easy for her.
01:08:42
Speaker
It's easy for her to go back to that. ah be Right. well if ah You know, so you think, or just met ask offhand, do you say do you think Tress is the problem? Which is a good point because we've kind of not had the spotlight on her. And she's very eager in Yeah.
01:08:58
Speaker
to kill yes I would still say no, but like it makes me think of of the kind of like how Imp has to actively be thinking about her power in order to like for people to see her. And we've talked before, but like okay, well, what if Imp dies and she's not actively controlling her power anymore? Is her body going to lay there and people just like ignore it because of- her power at play, like kind of a thing. And I kind of think the same thing with Tress. Like Tress is constantly, constantly trying to keep herself in check and like keep herself in control at all times and like contained. And in this moment where she's, some of the barriers are coming down and that, that feeling of like, well, I'm going to protect, you know, goddesses honor, but kind of, of like, I'm going to step in. It's like,
01:09:46
Speaker
lowers the barrier a little bit, lowers some of the inhibitions. And it makes me wonder if she's more, like you said, more capable of, of reacting drastically in a situation like this, as opposed to Victoria, who will maybe hold off a little bit more. Although she was pretty quick to choke out Byron a couple of chapters ago. So Michael, are you currently masticating food on screen right now?
01:10:10
Speaker
I do this like every podcast. What do you mean? what do you talk about? i know, it's just especially prevalent because that's like the vocab word for this chapter. Masticate? Masticate.
01:10:23
Speaker
Oh, it definitely comes up in the interludes. It does and happens like twice in like a couple paragraphs of each other. That's exactly why I did it. You're welcome. Good call back, Michael. Yep. He was like...
01:10:34
Speaker
I was like, I'm kind of disappointed that we haven't had more copacetics, you know? I know. We really haven't. I keep an eye on it. Nick, what's the fuck me count? Because I feel like we had a couple fuck me somewhere in here. but We may have. i forgot I forgot to count.
01:10:50
Speaker
Definitely a couple fuck yous, but... Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Not as many. Not as many, though. um Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. um I think it's funny, the visual concept of Kinsey messing with the portals and be like, I can just scramble teachers so they like open up 100 feet in the earth.
01:11:09
Speaker
and just said gaing yeah They just like, teachers, like I got this big room, like, all right, time to go to the prison. Portal opens, just rocks pour through. He's like, nope. calls that like In the sky, nope.
01:11:20
Speaker
It's like something's wrong. it's funny Just him like switching a toggle switch, like...
01:11:29
Speaker
and All I can think of with that is a treasure planet where he's opening the different portals trying to find the right one. It's like bunch of horrible things on the other end. That's exactly right. But each time to figure it out, he kicks one of his putty thralls in and it explodes or something back and he's like, oh, that was a bad one. Oh, nope.
01:11:49
Speaker
Yeah. um All right. 9.X to the interlude. um center Okay, wait. I have a question. I have a question. first i believe yo yes Do we want, because of the way that the interludes are, do we want to separate them like they are written? We could do 9.8 and 9.9. Okay, yeah. Let's talk about this together. The one thing would like to talk about... I've got a whole slew of just Capricorn thoughts.
01:12:16
Speaker
Yeah. yeah The one thing I want to talk about going into these though is i really enjoyed the writing for the transitions between the interludes and the regular chapters in between because each one picks up the same exact emotional state that's going on and the literal transition that's happening between Byron and Tristan.
01:12:47
Speaker
Yeah. Tristan starts by like literally the transfer where he's super angry. And then we cut to Byron being super angry at the opening and them fighting.
01:12:58
Speaker
And then there's a literal like he switches and we cut back to the other one where they're literally switching. And the emotion states are the same at the ends and the beginnings when they come to.
01:13:12
Speaker
um the the way it just lines up is really fun because it's yeah one of those seamless. I can see it as a show that like you could literally have the person walk and then them just walk into the next scene ah and it would just, it would look so good.
01:13:33
Speaker
yeah Something just thought of. So do we want to do 9-8 and 9-9 together? And then then we'll get into the interludes perhaps. Yes, please. If everyone's cool with that.
01:13:45
Speaker
Alright. 9-8 and 9-9, because this is all the prison stuff.
Battle for the Prison
01:13:48
Speaker
ah The conversation with Goddess continues. She's missing a cluster mate. Amy tries to touch Victoria and ends up just angering her.
01:13:58
Speaker
The battle for the prison begins. 9.9. The prison attack continues. Breakthrough Goddess and members of Foresight fight off the teacher thralls. Lung, Blindside, and Kingdom Come appear.
01:14:10
Speaker
ah yeah. And I am just happy that Lung is back. Oh, my boy. Ready to go. i love that when she's like, let's fucking go. There's a blindside kingdom come and another guy i recognize with metallic scales growing out of his skin. Hell yeah, baby. And I'm like, oh yeah.
01:14:30
Speaker
He's been doing and nothing but crunches and pull-ups for two goddamn years. I'd like to think he's been doing nothing but squats, so he's just caked out of his mind. He's just squatting for two
01:14:46
Speaker
years. He was the sole reason why wanted to read another chapter this morning, but did not. i Yeah, me too. At first, I was a little disappointed because I was like, damn it, lung got teachered.
01:15:00
Speaker
Like, damn it. But then i thought, the way teacher operates, perhaps he's sending people that are un, you know, fucked with, with his groups. Like that's, those are the specialized people.
01:15:13
Speaker
And we know that like blind side and kingdom come are like solo operators. So I'm going to assume that they're not teacher influenced. Right.
01:15:25
Speaker
um So the idea is that he, they just work for him. Exactly. Yeah, I think that's more the vibe I got because at least in Worm, and this would be a change to his character, in Worm, it felt like Lung was adamant that he was not going to submit to Teacher.
01:15:42
Speaker
He's like, I'll work with you if our goals align, and that's probably what's happening here somehow. He's like, but I'm not letting you touch me because I know how your power works and I'm not interested.
01:15:52
Speaker
Also, Lung is like... already really powerful. i Obviously, maybe Teacher can unlock some other hidden potential. like like i fuck Like, you can pick locks. Like, what the fuck? Yeah. yeah like Lung is like, I don't really need your help. You know?
01:16:09
Speaker
so And also, I can tear you neck and limb. like Yeah. yeah In fact, please do. Yeah, it would make sense actually to to send people who aren't under his direct control because those are the people who kind of fucked up his whole prison plan anyway.
01:16:24
Speaker
Because all Kenzie had to do is be like flash the teacher logo. Go do this. And the thrall was like they were like, oh, no, I got to go. Yeah. Yeah. Not not smart.
01:16:36
Speaker
Not smart. the thr i love that. She's just marking them with like the T for teacher. like It's so funny.
Amy's Actions and Intentions
01:16:42
Speaker
i I love her little markers. They're great. Yep. um Man.
01:16:50
Speaker
Imagine just being a regular prison guard in all of it. Like you're not teachered. you're not with for You're not like a spy. You're just there. It's just theres is your day job. It's just your job.
01:17:02
Speaker
And then... Yeah. Yeah. there And you're just, everything's going down. And meanwhile, outside you hear like, and now for the rage in the cage versus goddess. And you're like, oh, fucking buildings are just like flying out. And like, there's a dragon running around. prisoner like Even the prisoners being like, don't do anything. Your bombs might go off. And one of them is like, what the fuck? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
01:17:30
Speaker
Yeah, I just... Oh, man. It sucks. It'd be... so It sucks. um ah The Amy moment... Yeah, let's go back to that. How dare How fucking dare she?
01:17:42
Speaker
Pissed me off so much. I was so mad. surprised she was not dead. Do you guys think was trying... Oh, me too. Oh, my God. I have no idea how she's not dead. That goddamn bitch. She's getting backhanded by Victoria...
01:17:59
Speaker
or nearly backhanded by Victoria. yeah Yeah. Do we think do that Victoria didn't kill her of her own accord or was she goddessed into not killing her?
01:18:11
Speaker
Oh, I don't goddess never said anything about not killing a bitch. Yeah. like I think she just like, she threw up the shield and not, you know, what Everything exploded. she was She was in defense mode, not a attack mode.
01:18:24
Speaker
And defense mode just happened to also rip up the floor. ah Yeah. My thoughts, but. and I think it threw Amy backwards too, right? It didn't hurt her, but it kind of like. Yeah. It shoved her backwards. Like shove her back.
01:18:37
Speaker
Yeah, into the room. Because they're like stepping outside onto the fire escape. Yeah. As it happens. but that that moment too. It's so good. Amy, can't you just keep your hands to your goddamn self?
01:18:49
Speaker
ah ral She, cause she thinks it's, she thinks it's a Sveta. She thinks it's, it's a, it's trust. And cause she sees the red out of the corner of right. she's like, Oh yes, the color that's gotta be trust. And then she realizes that it's like mittens and,
01:19:07
Speaker
the The kind of the realization. Yeah, it's the tattoo. Like it's it's she goes through the thought process really quick of like, no, ah Natalie with gloves on. No. And then like just this, the the realization that it takes so long for her because in she never would have thought that Amy would try and touch her.
01:19:27
Speaker
The our search the old audacity of this bitch. What the fuck? It's the cucumber with the cat, right? So, you know, cat kind of sees a cucumber and then freaks out. the Same thing. and So that's what I imagined. Yeah, absolutely.
01:19:40
Speaker
ah Do we think that Amy maybe was going to try and do something? Oh, fuck. Yeah, of course she was. in that no like I like to influence her. Like I think you was nice i think she's going to try to fix which to her very first touch.
01:19:55
Speaker
I think she's going to try to fix emotionally ah Victoria's hatred of her. that she screwed up when she first touched her. I was gonna say that that wasn't the touch, but yeah but I know what you mean. like I think yeah she was going to undo the hatred part. She was gonna try and undo some of that hatred.
01:20:14
Speaker
Yeah. Cuz in her mind, everything's justified. So kind of this idea of like, well, if I can just like reverse some of her hatred of me, then maybe she'll see that goddess is a problem and I'm trying to help her. Because it all comes back to Amy feeling justified with everything that she does. That's like, it's cool. I can talk to you. i can be here because I'm trying to help you. I'm trying to save you. It's not about me. It's about you and how much I want to protect you. Like you can fuck right off with all that. It's the worst person you know making a legitimately good point, right? Because she is.
01:20:44
Speaker
amy yeah. I'm working with goddess, but guys, you really shouldn't. You really shouldn't. You're not a good person. You're under. and Yeah. maybe I don't understand.
01:20:57
Speaker
Maybe she was trying to ungoddess her. could have trying to do something like that. Maybe Yeah. I mean, wait. No fucking consent. No consent happened here, Amy. Yeah.
01:21:08
Speaker
Fuck right off. Emperor's New Groove, no touchy gif. No touchy. No touchy. No touchy. Arrested Development. No touching. No touching. It's just It's so selfish. is' the The selfishness has no end with Amy. I just don't.
01:21:28
Speaker
There's no no, there's nothing in my mind that she could do. ah could make me change my mind of her. yeah Like, the realistically, she could save the world and I wouldn't care. I would still hate her. There's no, there's absolutely nothing.
01:21:42
Speaker
You did help save the world. Yeah. And she's still fuck. Yeah. I'm going to censor myself a little bit. Yeah, no, she's terrible. You can feel the vitriol. It's like sitting like ink in the back of my mouth. I'm very upset. And it definitely feels like i you know, she's a conflicted character in Worm and it's, she's bad.
01:22:11
Speaker
And this definitely feels like a, all right, you guys didn't get the message. So Wild Bo went ahead and was like, We're going to talk about how bad she is.
01:22:21
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. yeah Let's be clear. She's a selfish bitch who only thinks of herself. This whole thing. Like, okay. What was Amy thinking was going to happen?
01:22:34
Speaker
That she was going to help goddess. And then goddess is like, oh, yes, we're meeting with breakthrough. Amy didn't go. ah Goddess is going to totally take over their brains.
01:22:46
Speaker
And also she was the one that sold them on it. Yeah. What is wrong with her? What is wrong with her? Yeah. and wendyy's the one we justin break through you got That's what I'm saying.
01:22:57
Speaker
don't understand why she thought that she could do it. Cause like, it's not like she thought, think maybe that goddess would like bring them in and the capacity that goddess brought her in, like where she wouldn't put them under her power.
01:23:11
Speaker
Or was she just stupid? Because like, okay, here's the thing. Again and again, Amy is not, is Amy just that stupid? Yeah. yeah i mean, remember, don't forget, i think her introduction in Wyrm was her being like, nobody can understand the burden that I have with my power. That's true.
01:23:31
Speaker
have to save everybody all the time. Oh, so much leukemia patients. Yeah. yeah Yeah. Also, never forget that like, Like all I can think is goddess says, Hey, Victoria, don't fucking kill Amy.
01:23:48
Speaker
And then Amy's like, ah Victoria, I'm going to tap you on the shoulder. I'm going to free you. So you don't have to do anything that she just, she just taps on the shoulder. Victoria just puts a hand through her face. am. And then she ends up getting sidelined by goddess because of it. Goddess is like,
01:24:07
Speaker
Oh, yeah. i mean You stay here, Amy. You go do something else for me. here. do something. But, oh, man, it's just ah so much. so I do love Amy as sort of just a narrative antithesis to everything that Taylor was where Taylor was the, ah her whole thing was if everyone just listened to me, we'd be fine. And she was right.
01:24:32
Speaker
Whereas Amy is like, if everyone just listened to me, we'd be fine. And she's just dead wrong. god She's wrong in every capacity. Yeah. And and this is a great moment. And I, I,
01:24:44
Speaker
I don't remember. So I hope this will be, you know, of many where Natalie sees this happen and it kind of puts two and two together of like, yes just yes yes Oh, Oh, it okay.
01:25:00
Speaker
You have a lot of animosity towards your sister and your mother because of this. And I know some of that. And now I get it. and yeah You know, me I think this might be the turn of like, maybe your mom's kind of shitty.
01:25:14
Speaker
yeah yeah yeah well because i was This is a big chapter of like, wow, that's very Carol of you. and she's like, yeah, it is. Oh, you're very, you know, like that sounds like something your mother would say or like, oh, and you know how your mom's cool.
01:25:26
Speaker
And this is the first time i think she's gone like, like oh, not so cool. That's not good. Because what I was going to say is I imagine perhaps the worst thing that Carol has done when she invited Amy to that cookout is give Amy any sense of hope that things could be good again. Right? Right. I think that's, and I'm not saying that's entirely Carol's fault. Obviously, Amy is deluded into believing it as well.
01:25:54
Speaker
But what I'm thinking is that- feeding Yeah, Carol's feeding it. Exactly. It's this idea of like, hey, you know mom, kind of, do you ever think me and Victoria could be e sisters again?
01:26:07
Speaker
And Carol's like, I really want that. I'd love for that to happen. I'll talk to her. I'll be the mediator. Probably even sugarcoating it, like, had a good conversation with Victoria today. i mentioned you and she didn't send me through a wall.
01:26:20
Speaker
yeah like And Amy's like, oh, so you're saying there's hope for us. You're saying there's hope? Oh, my God. No, Amy, abandon all hope. but Honestly, the best thing that could that best thing that could happen is that are that goddess leaves, Amy goes with her, and then we seal that portal and break it into a thousand bazillion contillion pieces, and and then we never, ever, ever, ever, ever have to see, hear, or speak to Amy ever again.
01:26:50
Speaker
That would be the ideal scenario here. um does' No more Amy ever, goodbye. Close the door, lock it, bar it, blow it up. um Just to summarize chat really quick, they like your idea um as to what Amy's reasons are. Fran says that most people they've spoken to or seen say that they think that Amy was trying to undo goddesses mind control.
01:27:14
Speaker
Yeah, that makes sense. That would track. But who knows? But still... Honestly, doesn't even matter if your intentions are good. Get right the fuck out. if i If she had succeeded, if it had been me, in this lovely fake scenario in my head, it'd been me.
01:27:31
Speaker
Amy puts her hand on my shoulder. Cheat. Oh, now I'm no longer. And I turn around and I don't need help from you. And then I go, hey, can you zap me in real quick to goddess like back under control again? And then blast Amy. And then like, I'll figure it out on my own because fuck Amy.
01:27:51
Speaker
Fuck Amy. Yeah. Like, I don't need your fucking help. In fact, I don't want it. In fact, I would rather die than take your help. Thank you so much. Yeah.
01:28:02
Speaker
Well, understandable Amy aside, i need a like a stuffed animal to choke out real quick. I can't choke out Amy. and don't have anything here. That's the way that we sell knitted like Amy's that you can strangle.
01:28:16
Speaker
It's a little, it's a little thing. Classic like white. Yeah, it's just a voodoo doll. can like stab with. What are those called? the The dammit doll. They're the Dammit dolls where you're they're intended to be whacked and beaten when you get frustrated? um I mean, I've seen the ones for like referees and football. It's like the Velcro arms and head and legs that you can like rip apart. Rip off. That's amazing. That's amazing.
01:28:40
Speaker
um Just like angrily rip up a sheet of paper. Just like... Yeah. Yeah, yeah. yeah Yeah. All right. Amy aside... Well, I was just going say real quick, Amy aside, at least Victoria got through to Tristan like, hey, there's Master Stranger protocols. Yes. Oh, my God. And Tristan was like...
01:28:59
Speaker
and Got it. That makes more sense. um And then Goddess makes a come comment that Chris is still working for her. Yes, yes, yes.
01:29:09
Speaker
But was yeah trying to counteract her powers. Okay, i pulled it up because wanted to talk it. loved was the phrase multiple layers of deception with that one. Yeah.
01:29:20
Speaker
yeah Which I was like, interesting. Again, kind of going back to our theory that Krista's human form may not be his true form. Yeah. Yes. Maybe some kind of a case 53 type thing. so yeah I'm still actually holding the devil in the hope.
01:29:37
Speaker
ah Go ahead. ah He came to me with a form prepared to counter me. And that is, as far as I detected, only one of the three levels of deception that Boy was putting into practice ah i wasn't sure most members that I wasn't sure most members of the team weren't shocked at that. Looks were exchange of alarm concern.
01:29:57
Speaker
He's helping you, Lookout said. is. He's clever enough that I want to work with him. And
01:30:05
Speaker
and so excited. Yeah, is the the sentiment there is that he came prepared with the form to counter her, so she's not controlling him, but they're still working together.
01:30:17
Speaker
but so I imagine very much like an Amy capacity. Yeah. Because there's so much of him we don't know. Like there's so much that's like a blank space when it comes to Chris. Yeah. It makes me think maybe there are just some, even some types of parahuman powers that form weird counters to goddesses. form That's what I was thinking.
01:30:37
Speaker
yeah And so Chris's emotional transformation power, um I could even see maybe crystal clear, not that it's been confirmed or anything, but maybe someone like crystal clear who can see see through things and perceives things differently.
01:30:52
Speaker
Maybe could be immune. um stuff like that, characters like that could be like it doesn't work as well against maybe. Yeah. Well, we know he has one character that wasn't affected by mama Mathers because he could literally turn off his brain and let it go on instinct.
01:31:08
Speaker
So potentially, you know, he uses that form again. um my, my impression of this is that he did get got, but he came trying to come, you know, kill her. Right.
01:31:22
Speaker
right And it didn't work. Right. And yeah that maybe it was a multi-layered thing where he shows up and he's in like that form, but then that form sheds off and there's another form underneath that like he jumps out of and is like, ha you only were controlling the first form.
01:31:41
Speaker
Yeah. You know, something like that. very i still I still really like the theory that we threw around a while ago about him somehow being connected to the Samurth. I'm still pretty like tied to that idea mentally because I just love the idea. I don't i just never want to get rid of the Samurth. I like her way too much. like i Feel like she just needs to have a constant place in the story. ah So like I love the idea of maybe keeping that somehow where he's somehow connected to her or you know not to say Sim or Baby, but something of that where he's not he's not entirely human. like We're all assuming that he's human with these like monstrous powers, but maybe it's the other way around.
01:32:18
Speaker
And i ah it made me so excited, but like the idea of, this ties into the theory thing I was talking about earlier, but like So if you have Amy, who is so because of her healing thing or because of like her mind control stuff or whatever it is you want to say, that like she she she either is immune or has some sort of safeguard against goddesses' powers, it's like, okay, so...
01:32:45
Speaker
ah hypothetically, it
Fan Reactions and Character Development
01:32:46
Speaker
could be mental. And even with um Crystal Clear, you know, kind of turning your brain off, something like that, of like it being a mental fortitude kind of thing or some sort of like mental alteration of like Chris having, because his powers are so emotionally driven and are so like, they're all named after people different states of being kind of, but because it's so fragmented and because like maybe him as a person is so fragmented and broken up that like it it takes
01:33:22
Speaker
it it takes way more work or maybe not at all, you know like it doesn't have any impact at all, but to fully grab him. Like the idea of like, well, you reach out and you try to snatch you know him, but you can't because he's so fragmented and so broken up that you're only getting kind of like, like goddess only got like a ah chunk of it. She only got like ah ah the tactician part or she only got like some of the group think part, but she wasn't able to get all of them because of that. Like, I don't know how to say this any better than just like mental cracking or like fragmentation that Chris seems to have.
01:34:01
Speaker
yeah famous I'm going to read this and then we're going to move on because we do not have the time to continue talking about yeah the interludes to talk about. yeah Fran points out the way that Wild Bo writes Amy is so a much more obviously fucked up is why to this day some people say that he retconned Amy to get back at the fandom and fanfic writers for portraying Amy as an innocent victim.
01:34:24
Speaker
I wouldn't say so much retconned, so much as he just continued the saga. like he If anything, I see like a lot of like planning ahead.
01:34:36
Speaker
ah Amy very clearly was never a good person, like literally not a good person from the start. And that is her trajectory from, you know, throughout Worm.
01:34:47
Speaker
And then in Ward, it just keeps going instead of like arcing down. um Yeah. So ah everything we know about her just is fucked up and it just gets more fucked up. The only difference is like everybody assumed that there would be a redemption and it instead it's just Amy staying as bad as Amy is in her peak, you know? Yeah. yeah But...
Capricorn Twins' Background
01:35:13
Speaker
Let's go talk about these interludes. Nick? Yes. Yeah. I'll put them both together because I think it's easier just deal with it that way. um Interlude.
01:35:24
Speaker
Flashback to Capricorn's trigger events. They join and interact with Reach. They argue, try to work out their situation, and they prepare to go after Paris. Paris escapes from Reach.
01:35:37
Speaker
Byron takes Moonsong to church. Tristan has a therapy session. And another fight fight with Paris ends with Tristan faking Byron's death.
01:35:50
Speaker
o Man, this is is is painful. Not the interludes I was expecting for Capricorn. It's not the interludes we wanted, but it is the interludes we deserved.
01:36:01
Speaker
yeah right so it what What came to mind when reading this, and it they were not so obviously abusive to each other as they these two are, but my brother had some friends in high school who were twins and they hated being twins.
01:36:20
Speaker
with an absolute vitriol. And in fact, we're atheists because as they put it, only a God who hates people would make them twins.
01:36:31
Speaker
wella Wow. Interesting. Classic twins. Yeah, classic twins. So naturally, my next question was like, so do you guys switch places or what?
01:36:43
Speaker
and Just
01:36:46
Speaker
So you're doing a cool tropes. Yeah, exactly. ah But no, it's it's that kind of like painful vitriol of trying to be your own person when, mean, it's hard enough having siblings and being compared to your siblings in any capacity.
01:37:05
Speaker
But to have somebody who is the same person as you, quote unquote, yeah um you know and being compared to that, it's like, oh man, why can't you just be more outgoing like Tristan? Why can't you be this more active like Tristan?
01:37:19
Speaker
you know why Why can't you be more respectful? And it's just like, oh man, it sucks. it The whole thing sucks. yeah The fact that Byron almost killed Tristan too is very interesting. Yeah.
01:37:34
Speaker
yeah yeah And vice versa. And vice versa, yeah. like They were in the act of killing each other. Yeah, they really were. i like is so easy It's It's funny, as Truett pointed out, um you know i've I've always been of the opinion that like Tristan is a very...
01:37:55
Speaker
um i think of like I think it's a knight, like Sir Tristan, and I can't think of what it's from. Maybe it's King Arthur, or maybe it's like Ivanhoe. I don't know. It's being a very upbeat...
01:38:07
Speaker
intentionally like flamboyant character and that is this tristan to a t but i've never thought about the fact that byron and tristan are a perfect example of a byronic hero as truett points out i think wildbo intentionally named them that way and i was like byronic i i can't say i've ever heard that A literary character archetype known for being rebellious, arrogant, passionate, cynical, and possessing a dark, brooding, and mysterious past that often involves significant trauma or a dark secret.
01:38:38
Speaker
Named after the poet Lord Byron. the yeah That was like, wow. Yeah, that fits. Just to ah tell you what is from Alan, Tristan's The Troubadour Knight from the Round Table.
01:38:55
Speaker
Ah, see. There you his a His famous myth is ah Tristan and Isolde. That's what it is. Forbidden love story.
01:39:06
Speaker
Classic. There's that as well. Yeah, very good names, very well-chosen names, I feel like. Yeah. Alan's looking at the bookshelves, I can promise you. He's probably looking for Arthurian legend stuff. No, if you're seeing yeah scurrying around in Alan's shot, it's him. He's the scurrier. It's not a cat.
01:39:24
Speaker
Yeah, yeah. He scurries like one. I mean, I feel like that counts. That counts in number books in the other room. i say you I think you're Arthurian Mortar Arthur is in our bedroom. I'm not looking for Le Mort de Arth.
01:39:38
Speaker
I was looking for the doris Doris and Kingsley King Arthur. Is there such a thing as a nerdflex? Because that's that's what's happening right now. That's great. I care. Yeah.
01:39:50
Speaker
i go um yeah I love it. Yeah, it's, ah i i I will say going into this, so this whole time of the of our group,
01:40:01
Speaker
um Capricorn has been my favorite. I ah really like Tristan. I really like how confident he is. i like his outgoing personality. He interacts with people really well.
01:40:12
Speaker
He takes form of leader really, really well. I really like that. Byron is the the shyer, more introverted, quieter version, which I also love and have been like, I would love to have more of this.
01:40:24
Speaker
It's really interesting to me going into these interludes. I was kind of like, prepared to have to make a decision of like, or take a side in terms of history of like, okay, well, knowing their backstory now, knowing now, you know, what's going on.
01:40:38
Speaker
Well, I was kind of like wondering, will my opinion change of Byron or Tristan as we go along? And I'll tell you right now, now that we've now that I've read these two interludes, I can't help but love them both so much more and equally and cannot take a side, even though we end these second interlude with Tristan pretending that Byron is dead. Doesn't matter.
01:41:02
Speaker
i fucking love it. And I love them both so much more now because of it. it's It's so interesting because i was there were different times where I was like more team Byron or more team Tristan, but like,
01:41:15
Speaker
By the end, no, I just, this is fantastic. Like, I love them both. And i my opinions have shifted a little bit. Like, ultimately, so this is so good. yeah They're still my favorite characters on the group. I do still think they're interesting, but my respect for Tristan has dramatically dropped, I think.
01:41:36
Speaker
That's what Alan was saying, too. In the sense of, like, I...
01:41:41
Speaker
He comes across like a selfish prick through most of the... Oh, he is. i want Absolutely. I want to keep in mind that this most of these interludes are told from Byron's perspective. So I want to keep that coloring of events in mind. However, just even from when he is... When Tristan is inside and Byron is the one in control and we're seeing it from Tristan's perspective, he still comes across like a prick.
01:42:11
Speaker
Where it's like, Byron's like, I mean, I guess if he needs this or like, oh, come on, Tristan, like, please let me out. Like, I just want to say hi. Like, if I feel like Byron's requests or or feelings are always reasonable.
01:42:25
Speaker
Whereas Tristan's is just like, oh my God, this is so boring. Oh hope my God. yeah that mood song again Like, it's just so demeaning. So I don't know. There's something about it that just...
01:42:37
Speaker
ah he feels so selfish and so self-absorbed. but Even with the therapy session, it's like they get two-hour session. Byron gets 15 minutes. wonder if narcissism ah yeah yeah she ah ah and and out i wonder if narcissism Like just because i there is not a single moment in this that is a believable, like him actually caring about somebody else.
01:43:10
Speaker
At one point in time, he talks about, um oh, I wanted to get Paris just so I could say to the injured, what was his name? Not retribution, but whatever the Christian hero is. Nate.
01:43:25
Speaker
Nate, yeah, to tell Nate that like, oh man, that like we got him, which is the most post hoc justification I've ever heard in my life.
01:43:36
Speaker
No, the fuck you weren't. Like you were going to get him because ah you just have a hard on for trying to get this guy because Like, does the guy target queer guy, queer people?
01:43:50
Speaker
Absolutely. Clearly has a vendetta against targeting only the queers. But also, i don't think that's the reason he's going after him. I think he's going after him because he just has a lot of anger and he's picked that person because he can't physically assault Byron again.
01:44:11
Speaker
which I think if they were in the same space, I think Tristan would be extremely abusive. Like, Oh yeah. Imagine them existing outside of this situation, but still forced to be in like proximity.
01:44:27
Speaker
Like, yeah, yeah. I don't know that like Tristan wouldn't be like hitting him. Like, Hmm. Yeah. i it's it's And then claiming self-defense.
01:44:39
Speaker
like Yeah, exactly. It's the thing with, and obviously it opens with Byron trying to kill Tristan, but and be but you feel like it's the buildup of years of grief and pain, right? Like it's not, it's very well written. it's one of one of my favorite interludes, I think, just terms of how beautifully it's written.
01:45:02
Speaker
ah you can just feel Byron just like years of pain and grief and being second best and feeling like second best and second most important. And even, i mean, even later when his dad is like, oh, hey, Tristan, you want to get ice cream?
01:45:19
Speaker
And he's like, oh, Byron, do you want ice cream? He's like, yeah, it might be nice. And he's like, oh, well, you know, me and Tristan used to do this after sports. Byron and I did other things like, we watched a movie once. yeah I'm like, oh my God.
01:45:34
Speaker
Yeah, Jesus. and so
01:45:40
Speaker
I don't know. and that um yeah I'm very curious because obviously of I know the arc's not over and I'm imagining we're getting at least one more Capricorn. Oh, I hope so. I hope so.
01:45:52
Speaker
cliffhanger ending of the last one we got. um it's It's fascinating because in present times, you get the sense that even now, if it's sort of been our understanding of their dynamic is shifted a bit, it's been two years and they've figured out how to work together ah bit, right? They switch back and forth when fighting. There's some good symmetry or or synergy with their powers.
01:46:18
Speaker
So like, I'm really, I'm really curious to say, to see where, how they get to where they are now. And if, if now is better than it was, or if they're really just like, is this or death? So I guess we'll just, just keep on hating each other till the end of time, you know? So, yeah, yeah. Very interesting.
01:46:42
Speaker
Yeah. Well, cause it's interesting too, that they note, um, Tristan's powers have changed a little, right? He went from metal to earth ah or to rock. I think if I recall correctly,
01:46:54
Speaker
but But Byron has been in flux, his power, since the beginning, it seems like. it was ah He was poison gas for a bit, and then he was ice, and then now he's water.
01:47:08
Speaker
um He's kind of more in flux and... I think that kind of speaks to their characters as well, whereas Tristan has always been very solid in what he wants and who he is, even if that's a bad add thing.
01:47:21
Speaker
Byron is very much in flux of like, well, I'm just trying to survive. I'm just trying to fit in where I can. It's a very symbolic pair of powers I feel like they have um just of who they are in their relationship.
01:47:33
Speaker
um But man, oh, it hurts. It hurts. Yeah. I was telling Alan this earlier. ah go ahead. No, please, Jacob, go ahead. I've got a long thing, so...
01:47:47
Speaker
it I was going to say it confirmed to, I don't know if they ever officially confirmed it before this, but that it's the, the person who's, who's out has to consciously make the switch. It's not a, it's not a joint decision.
01:48:01
Speaker
It's only one. Yeah. it's yeah Yeah. I said, I was thinking of it as a door with only a handle on one side. So you can, yeah if you're out, the handle is on your side and you can choose to open the door, but the other person has,
01:48:13
Speaker
you know, no control over opening the door at all. It's just a solid surface. And i think I think what's so interesting is that it's you have a limited, the person inside gets a limited feel for the sensations that the body is feeling, which is such an interesting thing where they're like talking about eating, how eating is hard because...
01:48:35
Speaker
The person on the inside doesn't get the taste of the food, but they feel the motions of chewing and swallowing. i i did Do they not get the taste of the food? No, they don't get the taste though, I don't think. They have all their senses. Yeah, because he even talks about that they have different tastes in food. Different tastes of food. That's true, that's true. Because you can feel and touch and smell. But it's almost like where the word masticating comes from. Yeah. Tristan just sits and chews the food for five fucking ever.
01:49:07
Speaker
And he's like, I don't like the the feeling of just having food in my mouth constantly, Byron says. yeah And then, you know, like he finally swallows. He's like, oh my God. And then he takes another bite and he's like, oh, this shit again? This again? feel like I almost feel like it's um it's like all the senses are equal though, right?
01:49:28
Speaker
Like when you're eating good food that you like, you don't really focus on the feeling of having the food in your mouth too much. It's like kind of the combination of the senses.
01:49:39
Speaker
But if all of the senses were equal and texture was heightened to the level that like smell and I feel like, I know for some people it is, but like just the, I don't know, like I get the sense that like all the all the feelings are equal in some weird way that make it more uncomfortable than normal.
01:49:57
Speaker
Yeah, you're outside of it. And then Byron- yeah Yeah, exactly. Yeah, yeah. Byron mentions at one point that like even with the food, like even if he wanted to gag or throw up, like you can't because you don't have a physical body. It's not like you have a gag reflex. It's not that you have a stomach in which to throw anything up. Like you you're gagging, you're grossed out, but you can't, there's nothing, nothing's happening because you have no body in which to perform it in.
01:50:23
Speaker
And so like, yeah oh, that's just, it's like the worst kind of limbo of like, because you're not, you're not. taking damage, you're feeling the hits.
01:50:34
Speaker
So like, ah I ought to say feel the pain, but you're not taking it. Yeah, psychic damage. Yeah, yeah. No, but the ah what what I was gonna say before, um it's interesting to me because the ah so Alan and I were kind of talking this through earlier, um but i I find myself
01:50:57
Speaker
not picking a side, I think so much because I relate a lot with Byron and I relate a lot with Tristan in both of those sides. Like ah the, the kind of extroverted party side of Tristan, like,
01:51:13
Speaker
I absolutely get that. And I've 100% been there. like That was me in high school. like I wanted to get wrecked and make out with strangers and not feel anything. Because like there was so much else in my head that I just needed an escape of it. and Which obviously is not a healthy thing to do.
01:51:30
Speaker
But it is how Tristan copes. And also in the sense of like Byron finding the the comfort of you know, routine, going to church, being with a family, connecting with Moon, like all of those things.
01:51:47
Speaker
and And the quiet, more introverted side, I also absolutely relate to. Like I'm way more introverted now than I ever used to be in my life. And it's hard for me to to see, like I can see the villainy in both of them.
01:52:01
Speaker
Fairly easy because i I see those same problems within myself. and And so i think probably that's why I love Capricorn so much. like there and it Like we said before, they clearly figured out a solution because the position that they're in currently in these interludes where they hate each other. And like Tristan even says at one point, like I've never hated anybody until I hated Paris.
01:52:26
Speaker
And Byron's like, really? Because I hate you every day. And that's that's really interesting that like even in that space, I don't think Tristan it now in in these interludes thinks of Byron that much at all.
01:52:40
Speaker
Byron is an inconvenience to him at best. and like And to Byron, Tristan is all-encompassing. all you know he He has to ah you know rotate around, not rotate, what's the word? ah We go around the sun.
01:53:00
Speaker
ah repeating Orbit. orbit orbit He orbits around Tristan because he has to. And like talking about Tristan stealing his friends and like you know I did it first, but then you did it and everyone called me the copycat. like That is so, oh my gosh, that is that was heartbreaking. Which is one thing.
01:53:19
Speaker
But then to to have Tristan say, yeah, he's copying me, which is pointed out multiple times. Like, it's one thing to be like, oh, like I would be on like the one or the other side it wasn't for the fact that Tristan's such a piece of shit.
01:53:37
Speaker
And like, like talks about like just laying into him when it comes to making fun of Byron yeah for like using very personal stuff, doing stuff that like he knows bothers him, like encouraging antagonizing. Like when it comes to the like copycat stuff, like he's such a piece of shit.
01:53:59
Speaker
Yeah. And then it's the like and then he he even tries to pull it on Byron in the interlude where he's like, what, so you hate because I'm gay? And he's like, dude, no. Yeah. Like, yeah you know like how are you not?
01:54:13
Speaker
Yeah. It's like the the whole like, no, i if anything, like I've been defending you from people who you don't even know about. Because I protected you from them, Tristan.
01:54:26
Speaker
And you didn't know about some of I'm sorry that you're your mommy's special little queer boy. but like, you know.
01:54:33
Speaker
yeah The worst part is he did know about some of the times he defended him. And then he'd like, talks about like, yeah, you like you did know. And then I'd show up and then you'd make fun of me. Cause like the other people would be like, oh, you're, you're, you're, you're feminine gay brother who can't do anything.
01:54:47
Speaker
And he'd like lay into it too. And he's like, dude, I just defended you. And then you turned around and essentially made fun of me. But like the same way that the bullies were making fun of you. Like, come on.
01:54:59
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's really low. harry Pause, guys. My audio is doing something weird. Give me one second. Oh, no.
01:55:11
Speaker
You can mark off tech issues. Is that on the bingo? It is. We almost always have a very smooth stream. Oh, no, that's not what meant.
01:55:23
Speaker
You just jinx it.
01:55:26
Speaker
um Also, i think we're good. Waldo asked what which ones we've checked off. As far as I'm aware, we've got love for malfunctions, not understanding goddesses power, tech issues, Hannah's a Tristan Stan, master is a verb, speculation on Chris before the theories part at the end, and fuck Amy.
01:55:46
Speaker
Okay, I would like to point out that Hannah is a Tristan stan was probably added because Alan and I had a conversation this afternoon where I told him all of my thoughts about Tristan and Byron. so I would argue that that is yeah should be a move and added as just a free space.
01:56:04
Speaker
It's rigged because Alan's a ah boob. was going to call you a bitch, but I can't do that on all my podcast.
01:56:15
Speaker
Also, I like you. um But yeah, no. ah I just have all my notes. for this Byron does literally so much for Tristan and Tristan does literally nothing for him.
01:56:27
Speaker
ah Like Tristan has the opportunity much like how Byron will essentially, i don't mean in a romantic way, but like wingman him.
01:56:39
Speaker
Like he has done his whole life. And Tristan, if he was a good person in any way, even a just a decent brother, would be trying to include his brother in these groups. Like, it would be justified for Byron to say, man, you're so good at everything.
01:56:59
Speaker
Everybody just kind of thinks of you as the older brother. and everybody likes you more, that sucks. However, the way that Tristan's doing that is not only being better at everything, but also stepping on Byron to get there.
01:57:14
Speaker
Like, he doesn't even need to do it, and he chooses to do it. Yeah. And there is people are talking about and we'll get into all of the other stuff with Moonsong and Furcate in a second.
01:57:29
Speaker
But he goes over, asks Furcate, like clocks right away with the gaydar, like, hey, ah what are your pronouns? And yeah they're like, they, you know, and, you know, I think because of the power she sometimes like,
01:57:43
Speaker
cool you know, go with that. I don't think that's him being nice. I think that's him finding an in with for Kate. I think that's all that is because he's not a nice guy.
01:57:59
Speaker
He's just got charisma and his goal is to make everybody like him. And that's just his in with for Kate in this case. Byron also, you know, nice to for Kate, but like,
01:58:14
Speaker
I mean, I'll be honest. This is one of those things where just, you know what? we we'll get we We'll get into the Moonson thing when we're done talking about how terrible Tristan is.
01:58:27
Speaker
ah Okay. yeah okay I do want to ask, um just as a practical aside for this, I understand how the PRT does what they do with the wards because it's like, hey, we need a safe program to raise these kids um in a proper way with teaching them, helping them become heroes. like They're dealing with a lot of trauma. Let's help them out.
01:58:49
Speaker
How is this private company reach justifying this child labor? For real. That's good question. The same way colleges did. you know You make a good point.
01:59:00
Speaker
um Yeah, I just thought that was funny. I was thinking about it. I was like, yeah. I was thinking about like, wait, these are all high schoolers. Yeah. Reach is a private company. What the hell?
01:59:15
Speaker
it's a weird yeah It's a weird world. I guess it's like child actors in that there's like an industry for child actors. Maybe they have a guild. don't know. There's clearly people like when they go on tour the facility, when they go on tour Reach, there's clearly people there that are set in to be ah you know the watchful eye, the guiding hand, you know whatever. But clearly there's also ton of free movement, free space.
01:59:42
Speaker
These kids are just kind of like do what they want. Like, yeah, like Tristan going to the party and getting fucked up. He's 15. Let's just remind her like, geez Louise, that with where are your parents?
01:59:58
Speaker
Like 15 with way too much money because he and too much he hands that taxi driver like a cool 500 bucks to get him some alcohol. Yeah. Yeah. i god man There is... um we talk about like Hannah relates to Tristan and I... And Byron. can Let's just remember it here. I said both.
02:00:18
Speaker
Hannah only relates to Tristan. God damn it. I have zero like sympathy for byer like Tristan in terms of like the the feeling of what they also... ah you know Relating to them.
02:00:36
Speaker
ah He just... Anytime somebody talks about like essentially having to drink the dumb bitch juice to like um forget about how life is. That is such an instant like non-starter for me.
02:00:51
Speaker
i just like, and that's him. The idea of like everything about Tristan, everything about Tristan is just such an antithetical to who I am.
02:01:03
Speaker
He is just the opposite of, who I enjoy in people. um and And Byron's kind of, like, I get it. Byron's kind of boring. We didn't know each other in high school. I write, like, Byron's kind of boring, but, like, ah you can kind of work around that. You can't work around Tristan. Tristan is, like, fundamentally just...
02:01:28
Speaker
ah I disagree, though. I disagree. that And I think that there's so much information that I've ended relationships. I'll be at short term, like making friends with people because they were like Tristan. i I will argue that there are some things that are like difficult to be around people when like all they want to do is drink. like That's really tough for me because like I don't drink all that much anyways now, probably because I got it all out in my high school years.
02:01:52
Speaker
But like i you know what? Actually, now that I'm thinking about it, maybe it's a queer thing. Maybe it's like you're queer and you're in high school and you're not allowed to like talk about being queer. Then you just drink a lot. And you know what?
02:02:03
Speaker
Maybe that's just an experience I didn't have. but you know i had my own experience know experiences drinking in middle school and high school ah for very different reasons. But ah you know it's just... oh It just rubs me. Everything he does rubs me the wrong way.
02:02:19
Speaker
Yeah. Which, and i'm on the other hand, i'm like I feel a like I relate a bit more to Byron. Especially, at least with the specifically the drinking thing. like My first drink was when I was 21.
02:02:32
Speaker
I remember when Mike and I took you to the place. i was so yeah yeah Michael was there. A few other people. um so yeah so i I think I relate, especially being the younger brother.
02:02:47
Speaker
um I definitely have have some feelings relating to Byron. I'm a second born. I'm a second born and a middle child. I'm second of four. So I'm like... Wow. yeah i'm I'm the oldest of mine. So... Yeah. yeah for it's a It could be a first born thing, you know?
02:03:05
Speaker
A first born and queer thing. First born and queer. The Venn diagram is getting smaller. Yeah. a We learned so much. If we're done talking about how the Tristan Byron problem.
02:03:19
Speaker
I could talk about the Tristan Byron problem for a whole episode. Let's adjust it slightly to talk about the moon song problem. Yeah. Oh, let's talk about moon song.
02:03:31
Speaker
Oh, yeah. Let's talk about moon song. i I liked her the moment Tristan was like, no, we're a bit different. My brother and I share a body. And then she's like, well, let us fucking meet him, asshole.
02:03:42
Speaker
yeah yeah I did like that. yeah like you ah like you. but I don't like Moonsong at all. i liked her in that moment. Other moments, though...
02:03:56
Speaker
She has some very clear moments that were like, oh yes, good. This is the proper response in this scenario, which like they're like, yeah, let him out. Let us fucking meet him. You mean he's been here this whole time? Yeah, let's meet the guy.
02:04:07
Speaker
That was the right move. Yes. And with after church with the dad where she's like, oh you you got ice cream with Tristan. What do you do with Byron? You know, like the eyebrow, like, uh-huh.
02:04:22
Speaker
Like I, that was phenomenal. Loved that. yeah Everything else about her.
02:04:28
Speaker
which like What is there about her? Other than, like let's let's just... We're going to focus in on this interaction with her. We don't know her her her thoughts behind stuff.
02:04:40
Speaker
So, what we have is her being a fantastic advocate for Byron. like Every time she interacts with him, it's like, wow, she clocks what's wrong. She listens.
02:04:51
Speaker
She hears. She even... she even and it's shitty of her for the initial being homophobic towards uh uh yeah yeah that part towards uh tristan mean obviously major problem there however the immediate follow-up is does it mean this to you then i will change my behavior which once again we're staying in that moment with how she's interacting there if that's If that's how it is, that is how behavior is supposed to change.
02:05:25
Speaker
You go, hey, this is a thing. This means a lot to me. I would really appreciate if you don't do that. Okay. I won't do that thing. Like, that's that seems like a good thing to me.
02:05:37
Speaker
Obviously, you know, that doesn't exactly pan out when we're talking about how what we've seen her talk about in, you know, Glow Worm, where she continues. Behavior actually works. Yeah, once again.
02:05:49
Speaker
But what we see here is that she clocks that Tristan's an asshole, and maybe some of that comes from her bias. Um...
02:06:00
Speaker
And you know what? i I very much think for her it does. But also, we know that he weaponizes himself being gay. Like, he literally, she might be an asshole. This is the Amy moment where she is homophobic, but also somehow he's not wrong when it comes to specifically Tristan.
02:06:19
Speaker
Like, She's like, yeah, she clocked him for being that kind of person who does weaponize his being gayness as a thing to garner attention and sympathy and pity because he's an asshole.
02:06:35
Speaker
Like, yeah. Even Byron shuts her down when she says that. And he is like his brother's biggest anti, like biggest. right now not opposite of biggest fan. he Even he shuts her down, though, when she's like, oh, yeah, because she would, i don't care remember what she says exactly, but like, oh, yeah, he's flaunting his... Flaunting the gay thing.
02:06:53
Speaker
The gay thing. And he shuts her down fast because she's wrong. Yeah. like i do feel like I do feel like that is... performative for Moonsong is the one issue I see with it.
02:07:06
Speaker
Yes. Oh, that matters to you? Okay, I won't do it. I think I absolutely agree. I won't do it around you. But also going thank it. Yeah. Because later on. Which is better than anything Tristan's ever done.
02:07:20
Speaker
Later on, Tristan mentions that he doesn't like how how she you know talked to, ah i can't remember I can't remember their name.
02:07:31
Speaker
Kay, yeah, how they talk how how she talked to Kay and like that Byron didn't clearly didn't even notice. So like i while I do think, I i do agree with you, Kristen can be a total asshole, a very self-centered individual for sure.
02:07:47
Speaker
i I definitely think that that maybe at the at the beginning, befriended Kay because like he clocked something on the queer spectrum there. But like I do not think that that was something that he was using like completely as a in just for the group. Like maybe at the beginning, sure, as like a way to find some footing there and like build rapport. But I, the way that he mentally thinks about Moonsong and how Moonsong talks to Kay is very like protective and clearly doesn't like Moonsong and neither do I. I was gonna say, I think that's, I think,
02:08:32
Speaker
I think that that's one of the things that like, if I'm going to play complete devil's advocate, I still think is just him protecting himself and his in group where in this case, he doesn't like moon song because moon song doesn't like him.
02:08:49
Speaker
That's like, he clocks that straight away. And his defense of Furcate isn't defending Furcate. It's defending himself, which, you know, in terms, fine.
02:09:01
Speaker
But yeah essentially, like, keeping Moonsong out. he And this is the opposite thing. He is correct in saying, i don't like the way she's talking to her.
02:09:12
Speaker
However, I still think it's for very selfish reasons of, like, if Moonsong did anything, he would just be like... I can't believe i hate when moon song sings in the shower. Yeah.
02:09:25
Speaker
Like we can fucking hear her. Like how selfish is it for her to do this? And also she's homophobic. Like, I just I'm not so quick to judge to judge Tristan in that way just because we haven't seen his perspective hardly at all. We get like two sections where it's from Tristan's perspective and we have the a lot of Byron's interpretation of Tristan, but like not a lot of Tristan himself, which is why I'm I'm not so quick to just throw him under the bus.
02:09:56
Speaker
And here's here's another thing that that I think solidifies this for me is that you look at Tristan now. Yeah. And especially when he's introduced himself, the habits that he talks about that he had and how he literally just the interactions with him now versus before and his relationship with his brother and before.
02:10:17
Speaker
It is still strained. And but that it is a result of
02:10:27
Speaker
of them just to having fundamentally different personalities as opposed to Tristan being a fundamentally bad person, which I think he is in these chapters.
02:10:39
Speaker
And later, you know, granted he's two years well older, two years wiser and a lot of therapy, yeah you know, better. yes He just is a different person. He has agree as worked through all that.
02:10:51
Speaker
And I think this is, you this iss a very complicated case of like, I really do think narcissism and like everything's got to be about Tristan and him. do Yeah.
02:11:03
Speaker
I, this is one of those were like moonsong. If we're playing numbers games, moonsong is just a better person than him, but it's like, I don't know how you're playing like numbers morality there. Like he's a complete asshole. Yeah. don't, I don't, I don't, I'm not comfortable with that line of thinking personally.
02:11:23
Speaker
i think too though, what's interesting is knowing now. Let's get Nick's and Jacob's thoughts and move on from this. Yeah. yeah Sorry. Alan and I've been like, you have been arguing about this all day. We can tell.
02:11:34
Speaker
yeah um I'm sorry. Yeah. This is a marriage, marriage therapy now with. What? No.
02:11:43
Speaker
No, I'm just kidding. You know what it is? You know what it is? oh I think Tristan's a bottom. Oh my God. I knew you were going to say something. Just don't do bottoms. Shut up. Don't abide bottoms. Yeah, can you mute him?
02:12:00
Speaker
No, I was just going to say um with Glow Worm, we know that Tristan ordered the hit and what it was for now was to keep keep him from overstepping his boundaries with Byron because of how the extreme measures of what he does to fake Byron's death in 9Y.
02:12:19
Speaker
That occurs, I do notice, that occurs after, I believe, chronologically in Glowworm, his conversation with Moonsong. where Yeah, i mean, Glow Worm... No, what I mean is like, in in the Glow Worm arc, we have Moonsong talking with Capricorn.
02:12:36
Speaker
And then then there's a bit where Capricorn's like, hey, I want to hire you to get the memorabilia.
02:12:44
Speaker
um And that's when he creates the hit. I think maybe it is that they are both they're both just bad people, but Tristan...
02:12:57
Speaker
is now aware of it, and I'm not so sure that Moonsong is aware of it. I think that's the difference, is that I can feel a bit more compassion for Tristan knowing what we know now solely yeah solely because he does grow eventually.
02:13:14
Speaker
Moonsong appears to have not grown based on what we've seen of her thus far. Oh, yeah. Moonsaw's a total bitch now. like Yeah. And I will say, I have a theory, just and then i'll I want to hear what Jacob's thinking.
02:13:28
Speaker
My theory, and i maybe this is obvious, but my theory is that the murder charge that gets leveled at Tristan is for Byron's death.
02:13:40
Speaker
Oh, that's good. Yeah. And that... um Basically, the circumstances being what they are of Byron's death and how Tristan probably also goes off the deep end and parties a bit feeling just pretending like Byron doesn't exist.
02:13:59
Speaker
I imagine his teammates are going to be like, yeah, we're pretty sure that Tristan put himself in line of fire and then switched into Byron. So Byron would die at the last second. And the only way to unprove that he eventually he gets so cornered. The only way he can prove that he didn't kill Byron is by showing no, I've just been keeping him inside this whole time.
02:14:21
Speaker
That's, that's going to be my, my guess is to the murder charges that he killed his own brother. thank My theory. And that gives us a bingo on from Wonderland with a fuck Amy disagreement on Tristan Byron issue, tech issues and Alan rants.
02:14:39
Speaker
yeah Yeah. you got You got all those in like the last half hour. ah Well, Jacob, any thoughts? I mean, yeah. I mean, you guys said most of it. I think I look at the yeah in contrast to Hannah Capricorn is probably my least favorite character of the group.
02:14:57
Speaker
just in terms of character dynamics. And they're it's just a lot simpler to me that Tristan's just a narcissist. It's just pure narcissism. is' a young nars he He's a Narcissists aren't aren't ah mean for the sake of being mean.
02:15:14
Speaker
they're just They only care about themselves. but That's all that matters. And Nick, i think i didn't i ah I wasn't thinking about the murder charge. I think that makes a lot of sense. But I i definitely think that we're going to see...
02:15:28
Speaker
probably Tristan's POV in another interlude here. And it's going to be a, uh, the crash of, of that, uh, narcissism going too far, especially as a teenager.
02:15:40
Speaker
So it's, you know, I, I, there's so many comparisons with these. what What makes Worm great is like, we get these characters that are so similar to other fictional characters representations, but they're,
02:15:56
Speaker
But Wild Boat does such a good job of just making them unique in their own way. And like, the big show this year is severance, right? So we get, there's so much similarity between like the any and the Audi and this dual, this dual identity within a single person.
02:16:14
Speaker
um ah especially when the moment in, and I think it was, it was point Y where they're swapping and having a conversation with each other. Right. Yeah. enough for Not, no spoilers for severance, but there's a moment like that. Yeah. And that gives me a double bingo for Jacob comparison video TV movie.
02:16:31
Speaker
yeah Like my third comparison. I was talking, I talked about X-Men earlier. um But anyway, the i I love this so much. There's so much, there's such a fun storytelling ah dynamic. And this, what what I think makes Tristan and Byron interesting is because in terms of, uh, realism, we have some pretty similar real life examples with conjoined twins. Right.
02:16:59
Speaker
And they're not hidden from one another. Right. But like sharing a body with someone is something that you people have to experience. And like,
02:17:11
Speaker
a lot of the public examples of conjoined twins are success stories. There's like, I can think of a couple that come to mind that are sort of more ah famous, but like have learned to work together and walk in unison and talk in unison.
02:17:23
Speaker
We don't really understandably hear about any bad stories with, uh, with that. And, and it makes me, it makes me think about Capricorn in the sense that like, Oh God,
02:17:37
Speaker
There probably are ah pair of conjoined twins out there that don't like each other. And that's got to just be absolutely horrific. I can't imagine that.
02:17:49
Speaker
But I'm really curious what becomes. I think Nick's probably onto something there with the ah but the death charge. that makes That makes a lot of sense. I like that angle a lot. Yeah.
02:18:01
Speaker
Because I feel
Ward's Serial Format and Reader Reception
02:18:02
Speaker
like... but i just going to say, I initially thought it was going to be Paris because i'm all I was also waiting for the murder charge. I could see it being Paris too. Yeah, but I think yeah the death of Byron is interesting.
02:18:16
Speaker
i More interesting thematically. It is more interesting thematically. and um And I feel like I'm grasping at straws with it maybe, but I feel like you know People have mentioned, oh you know you're not the only one to have killed people in your group. Like, Sveta has killed people, but you know other people have killed people. But I feel like it's a... And maybe I'm conflating Herman Ward now. I can't remember.
02:18:40
Speaker
um But I feel like it's going to be the surprising one, right? Where it's like, no, Tristan was charged with murder. But I feel like that's all they've said about him. was like he was charged with murder.
02:18:53
Speaker
Not Tristan killed murder. Although there was a, there been some statements, haven't there, that Byron, when by earlier in this, art trying to remember Byron on and Vicky are together with the major malfunctions.
02:19:07
Speaker
There's a comment made about like, I think you and I are the only ones or something like he makes. I thought he made. might have to go hunt it down. Yeah. They mentioned it on the television interview and a couple other places.
02:19:21
Speaker
But again, I feel like it was mentioned in like court terms of like the murder charge. yeah maybe and Maybe I'm misremembering, but I feel like it's it's mentioned in not like you killed a person terms, but like.
02:19:33
Speaker
No, i I mean, I mean more of like. In terms of Byron talking to Victoria, I'm basically saying that like a difference between my brother and me is that he's killed people and I haven't.
02:19:44
Speaker
And that idea of like, if it was himself, would he say something like that? I'm trying to find it because I don't remember that. I'm pretty sure it's in this arc. Let me see if I can find it. I'm going hunt for it. well you I don't know if I'll be in. While Hannah looks for that. yeah Yeah, that he's attempted to kill people, which like.
02:20:01
Speaker
that would not maybe That would make sense because Byron attempted to kill his brother at the literal beginning and then his brother literally attempted to kill him to get him off of him. So like, Yeah, I might be remembering incorrectly, but let me see what I'm finding. While you're looking that up, I'll quickly go over, because Fran has made several good points, um asking, like, why is Tristan wanting capture a guy that does hate crimes against his community actually him being selfish?
02:20:25
Speaker
um I believe that you can do good things and also be selfish doing them. um I don't think those are really exclusive. In fact, I would argue that most people do the right thing for very selfish reasons.
02:20:38
Speaker
And... that's okay. But in this case, I think overall he is a selfish person and, uh, that like bleeds out of just him doing good things.
02:20:50
Speaker
Like it's not like, he's not just doing good things, uh, for other people's sakes on top of that. It's, it is a weird fascination. And I don't know that he's not doing it for a like, Oh yeah, they're specifically just targeting my group or that it,
02:21:07
Speaker
it like to me, it almost feels like he's picked him with the, him attacking his community being the cover, just like a couple of the other things he does is a cover for like what he's actually there for. Like, Oh man, I just wanted to make Nate feel real good.
02:21:26
Speaker
You know, I could be by his bed or suck his dick. Like, it's like, well ah we know why you were there. You were there. Cause you wanted to suck his dick. Like, don't pretend that somehow it was more than that. All of a sudden,
02:21:37
Speaker
um yeah Let's also clarify that Alan does not condone the bigotry. kind yes oh my God. Yeah. be very We need to get to that Yeah. war we Yeah.
02:21:52
Speaker
yeah There's many points here. ah The other parts, ah how is Moonsong advocating for Byron good, but Tristan advocating Fergate selfish? Once again, i think that falls in the, it can be selfish and it can also be good.
02:22:04
Speaker
um And since most of this is centered around Byron and Tristan, I do think that Moonsong's advocating for Byron um probably is selfish ah after the initial run. Like, hey, let him out.
02:22:21
Speaker
You know, she is a bit of a dickhead because I wouldn't just say it. Maybe tone is maybe a bit lost in there. Like, hey, yeah, so let him out. She's kind of a bitch regardless.
02:22:32
Speaker
She is both selfish because she's advocating for the guy she likes. And also it's good to advocate for Byron. So both of those things are true and good and also selfish all at the same time.
02:22:47
Speaker
um And then there was a third point. i not like interesting because asshole inconsiderate by hating on him. The point that's excuse for bigot is crazy. um Yeah. yeah it was Here's the thing.
02:23:02
Speaker
I don't control the, don't condone the bigotry and I don't even like moon song and it is revealed later on. And then that she is a bigot in that moment and she does not fix her, her actions or attitude in any way, shape or form.
02:23:17
Speaker
later on some of the beauty of this and what i like about characters most is how they change and one of the things that i love about people is like somebody can be a terrible individual and if they make steps to be a better person that is like a wonderful like that clicks something for me yeah so think yeah and I think it goes to be said, like kind of like what we were saying earlier, Alan, to the point of the bigotry of like, Moonsong not being a bigot towards Tristan is not because she's changed her mind about how she feels about gay people.
02:23:58
Speaker
It's because she likes Byron. And as a result, when she no longer has that, she is still a bigot. And I think that that's that's kind of what we're talking about, right? is like Whereas with Tristan, he is selfish, but eventually he learns, hey, I need i have fucked up.
02:24:19
Speaker
I need to change. um And again, it's you know that they're both bad people and both are bad for very different reasons.
02:24:30
Speaker
um yeah The unfortunate thing is Moonsong doesn't grow out of it. Yeah. yeah In spite of meeting for Kate, Tristan, and all sorts of things.
02:24:41
Speaker
Right? And there's there's so much to be said for like talking about this in in the interludes versus in the bigger story. Because in the bigger story, obviously Tristan, I almost feel like I'm talking about a different Tristan.
02:24:55
Speaker
Because I am. Yeah, absolutely. like He's changed so much. and I didn't even realize I was thinking about that now. But like Tristan is, i don't, don't, like and don't dislike him as Tristan now.
02:25:07
Speaker
Like he's just, he's Tristan. Like I also Byron is kind of boring because he doesn't do anything like, like they're just yeah all that. And, and, but, but he's like that board, the the per character that I just don't kind of care for is leaps and bounds, a better person.
02:25:24
Speaker
Like, Oh my God, a better person. And that's cool. Especially now that we know this like future guy. Yeah. Old Tristan, terrible. yeah Future Moon, god awful.
02:25:37
Speaker
Literally hasn't changed. Old Moon, we don't know necessarily what's going... Like, we know that she's bigoted. and but we also don't know that she doesn't make steps until it's revealed.
02:25:51
Speaker
We assume probably, you know, further on in, you know, maybe in the next arc, but at the very least, all the way to here that things have not changed. So, uh, and an example Bernard brings up, and thank you for bringing it up precipice slash rain.
02:26:08
Speaker
Rain was a terrible and like a terrible individual in a really awful situation, much like our boys, and makes steps to not do that anymore. And yeah it's something about taking steps forward that does it for me.
02:26:22
Speaker
That, like, we see no willingness to to like change on Tristan's behalf. Like he literally has to get like blackmailed by his brother half the time to make any sort of concession.
02:26:37
Speaker
And my excuse for Moonsong is Byron asks her not to do something and she doesn't do it. She says, I'm not going to do that.
02:26:50
Speaker
And that is a baby step compared to Tristan's literally backpedaling in the other direction because he would never do anything Byron wants. I could see a world in which if Tristan had not been such a toxic person, that being around Tristan could have helped Moonsong overcome her biases.
02:27:16
Speaker
However, it's one of those things where like yeah it's it's the worst case scenario where you have somebody whose biases, who feels like those biases are confirmed.
02:27:28
Speaker
it's yeah It's not because of Tristan's sexuality that he behaves the way he does, but when it happens to somebody with biases, they're going to assume things, right? Yeah.
02:27:40
Speaker
And you kind of like you kind of have that similarly with like racism and you things against immigrants and stuff like that. It's like, well, yeah, like you know when somebody believes they've had their biases confirmed, it just makes them a worse person.
02:27:54
Speaker
And unfortunately, that seems to be the case with Moonsonged. But yeah, obviously, obviously, yeah, but the bigotry towards the LGBT community is not something that we know. And I want to thank Fran for asking all those questions so we could give a chance to to clarify this.
02:28:12
Speaker
ah Not at all. This is just one of the many discourses and heated debates that happened during Ward while Bo almost quit writing because it got so bad. Really?
02:28:24
Speaker
Dang. That's unfortunate. Yeah. i I think anytime I hear about wild boat quitting because of the debates that went on with this, because if we're thinking about this from a writing aspect, this isn't bad writing. It's not even like, no, I don't know.
02:28:42
Speaker
What? Like you started that sentence weird. The writing is phenomenal. It's not bad writing. And it's not even like it's directed bad writing. Like, ah like directing towards like, Oh, Tristan is terrible because he's gay. Like it's not gay bashing.
02:29:02
Speaker
It's not at all. It's people i'm playing and and it's complex. And just because you write the perspective of one character doesn't mean you believe the perspective of one character.
02:29:14
Speaker
like wait Hang on, Alan. Are you saying that people on the internet have strong and divisive opinions? Look, as a person on the internet. Those strong, divisive opinions have no nuance to them whatsoever and indeed are hurtful to the very thing that they care about?
02:29:31
Speaker
Damn. I can't believe it. I don't know how that would possibly i don't i don't know how that how that would possibly happen um I think it's a testament to Wildbo's writing and the stories and the complex characters that he creates that inspired us to ah do this podcast in the first place. like It's what we love so much about Wyrm and what we love so much about Warden.
02:29:52
Speaker
like I mean, I'll be honest. I like being able to sit here and talk to you guys about this stuff. And I know Alan I don't agree on Tristan. And that's fine because it's a made-up character.
02:30:03
Speaker
and we're both happy to be here. And also, we kind of like love to fight about books a lot. yeah I will say the Tristan Byron problem, as we'll call it, is one of those things that does live in my head ah as as a to to compare to situations when I think about just interacting with people in my life.
02:30:27
Speaker
That's the like it's such a thinking about people dealing with really tough situations that you kind of can't resolve. The Byron Tristan problem is one of those. Yeah. Yeah.
02:30:39
Speaker
yeah
02:30:42
Speaker
Truett points out a really good problem. Good writing should make these kinds of arguments, but when it's in serial format with instant responding readers, it can stress out the writer in a terrible way.
02:30:54
Speaker
And also, I mean, you could also, i mean, much like just having sentences, you can do a first you know post with the chapter and it potentially be like,
02:31:09
Speaker
you know, slanted in some way that's bad. And then the second chapter is like, okay, but that's a bad thing. And we all know that. And if without that clarification that you've got to wait for like, you know, three days. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. yeah very I know Ward was really, really bad as many people are pointing out.
02:31:30
Speaker
And I know there were, I remember reading ah thing after Ward finished um that he wrote and man, I didn't, because I don't, didn't interact with the community at all. I did not realize Ward was so divisive until after the fact and all the different things that people took issue with.
02:31:52
Speaker
And just talking about how stressed out it made, made wild bow that he really hated writing Ward and kind of scrubbed worm and ward from his mind because he just sad doesn't want to,
02:32:07
Speaker
so anything else there. I can't imagine the instant feedback of a web serial. my God. you You can't help but even if you try your best to like not listen to what other people think.
02:32:21
Speaker
you can't help but take their input and maybe think, well, maybe I should write more towards that or, well, maybe I shouldn't do that or, oh, dang it, they predicted what's going to happen. Do I do that now or do I change it? you know like you Just that constant ebb and flow is just really quite difficult.
02:32:37
Speaker
If I were to ever do a live serial, I'd probably write it all first and then publish it chapter by chapter. Yeah. I mean, it's hard enough for me read it. I already I'll take it down and then publish it.
02:32:48
Speaker
Exactly. but And the internet can be so fickle and so cruel at times. And like, i mean, like we, I, we've joked on this podcast before of like, you know, while both you're listening, like,
02:32:59
Speaker
not listening to this podcast. He got stressed out writing Word. like He's not listening to us hash through it and talk about what we like. and dislike He's not listening to this.
02:33:11
Speaker
Although... but if you did if you If you are, please get in touch. We'd love to talk about
Character Dynamics and Mythological Connections
02:33:20
Speaker
it. One last thing I'll talk about and then we can move to our final questions and get out of here because we've run late.
02:33:25
Speaker
Yeah, we have run late. Oftentimes, going through all this, we often forget that this was written in a serial week to week. And I have to remind myself with specific points how that impacts the story.
02:33:37
Speaker
um And, man, and just that is a big deal when it comes to format of a media that the way it's put out matters.
02:33:48
Speaker
um so ah Favorite powers?
02:33:58
Speaker
Oddly didn't get a ton of like new powers despite a lot of action in these chapters. We got the whole new team of Reach's team because like I really like in the girl with the hair for cool hair whipping powers and stuff. Hold on. not really like that. think is The flame a fla person, right?
02:34:22
Speaker
but fear yeah if you're here's main ones for yeah yeah Purple Flames, Nameless Purple Flames. That'd be my pick. Prison Pharmacist, Goddess.
02:34:33
Speaker
um We had Koi Fuhrer, we had Furcate, we had a bit more about Finale. We had ah Paris, um tribute and figurehead Yeah, figurehead. which i Am i am i interpreting figurehead's power right?
02:34:54
Speaker
He's really powerful against you if he's never met you? Is that his power? I think there's multi... He's got a couple powers there, but that's definitely one of them. It's so weird. Yeah.
02:35:07
Speaker
I'm trying to... It's like the opposite of knowing your enemy, right? Because there's like the power of like, I fight you once and I know what you do. That's Taskmaster, right? he can yeah He can memorize things instantly where he's like, oh, if I fight you once, then I know every move you'll ever do and I can beat you.
02:35:21
Speaker
This is the opposite of that. It's like, I don't know you. I can beat you no matter what. Which I think is funny. um Yeah, I think... i
02:35:35
Speaker
Yeah, that we got the major malfunctions. We got to see them in action. um Yeah. Yeah. ah Major malfunctions were cool. at Not too many like impressive powers, I would say.
02:35:47
Speaker
um i think Paris' is is kind of interesting. Paris is actually... I didn't think about it until this time because I was just assumed Paris was named after like the city for some reason and I was missing something.
02:35:59
Speaker
But this time, um especially given the bigotry that we've been talking about, Paris... it be it's I think he's named after Paris from Greek, but not, I was to Greek mythology, but the Trojan Wars, because he's wearing like the spade shaped stuff and he's like throwing darts and I'm like, oh And Paris specifically is the guy who kills, you know, gay icon Achilles.
02:36:33
Speaker
And I was like, his whole... That's not just something he does for fun on the side, being like um like us ah specifically targeting the queer community. That's what he's named after. Like, that's a difference.
02:36:49
Speaker
That could be a difference. Yeah, yeah. There's something he said to doing it as a hobby, but for you to name yourself... yeah What? what Well, paris Paris, in mythology as well, Paris is famously a fantastic archer as well.
02:37:05
Speaker
So there could be that with the you know piercing the piercing the Achilles tendon. ah you know Yeah. Yeah. it's that's Yeah. I did not realize that until this time around.
02:37:17
Speaker
I totally assumed Paris like from Romeo and Juliet, but Paris and Romeo and Juliet are probably... no I mean, die. <unk> Is it Tybalt that or Paris? I think they all die. Both die. Everyone dies. The priest that gives her the roofie is like the only person that doesn't, right?
02:37:40
Speaker
and Her nurse. Yeah, there you go. Who helps her. No, I, in terms of new powers, i like I like the idea of Finale's power where she's kind of building up to the grand finale with her. Yeah. And also just the like pew pew pew pew. It's really funny.
02:37:59
Speaker
um So she's probably my favorite there. Fur Kate always fascinated me ah just because of the like. don't think I know what their power is. There's like three alternate versions of them themselves. Oh, that's right. That's right. that right That's right.
02:38:12
Speaker
If they push themselves. Yeah, so potentially four. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's right. That's right. But they... the term bifurcate.
02:38:19
Speaker
ah Yeah. um But ah yeah, so they can they can just split their body, it seems like. They don't really... Maybe some slightly enhanced physical abilities, but not... Tristan says when they hit, or Byron says when they hit, it's not with like enhanced strength or anything. It's just their normal strength.
02:38:38
Speaker
So they can split their bodies to cover more ground, but that's about it. um And then I guess they do like some rock, paper, scissors game to figure who gets to be the remaining one.
02:38:50
Speaker
So it's it's they're funny. it's a fun It's an interesting one.
02:38:56
Speaker
It's like they get to have the Byron Tristan power. bed Fun. It's the shadow clone jutsu from Naruto. Yeah. Yeah. not as effective as that. There's something with, is it tinker stuff? Cause they've got like claws on one and like, yeah, but they're like, each one has a different thing.
02:39:15
Speaker
So when they split, it's like, Oh, you've got the super powered boots. And yeah. Yeah. So really like for Kate.
Closing Remarks and Future Plans
02:39:30
Speaker
Any change to who's the most worrisome? Nah, never. Probably doubling down at this point. Alrighty. Victoria. Yeah. I mean, i still think I still think Chris is a problem.
02:39:42
Speaker
i mean, yeah, we're still waiting on Chris's interludes. Hopefully soon. Yeah, i'm I'm still hanging my hat on the the Chris on On a very late note. Thank you all for watching. I'm sleepy sheep.
02:39:55
Speaker
We always have been, but you know, and I know Michael has been dead staring in the screen straight into my soul for me to shut the fuck up for a while. Let's go with that.
02:40:08
Speaker
Our Lovely ah watchers. Thank you so much. Our listeners. Thank you so much. I will read off the thing. We got love for major malfunctions, disagreement on mood song, not understanding goddesses power, tech issues, Alan rant, Hannah's a Tristan stand master as a verb.
02:40:23
Speaker
Michael has to reel them speculation on Chris before the theories at the end. Fuck Amy, Jacob comparison, the TV and a movie and disagreement on Tristan Byron. We got a double bingo from Wonderland and I've got myself a quadruple bingo. buy this right now What we missed were, of course, Nick goes full teacher. Interludes are goaded, which I think should be a given, which gives me another. yeah Absolutely goaded. Yes. I feel like I said that.
02:40:47
Speaker
I don't think we've had one. Oh, he's asleep in the thing next to me down on the floor. Closest we got was you on your hands and knees. but ah Right. yeah and That was true. That's just for the fans, and you could see that if you were a patron. um well Zoom and enhance.
02:41:03
Speaker
honor And finally, of course, the one that everybody was waiting for, Hannah Cries, which she did not. so I didn't. That's correct. so There's too much anger.
02:41:15
Speaker
was a lot of anger. It was a lot of anger. I did i get did get a little misty-eyed while reading. um It was specifically... It was a random spot that I just kind of got a little choked up in when Victoria was thinking about Dean, I think, um which we didn't talk about at all.
02:41:35
Speaker
ah But, but, yeah, no. She'll think about him next arc, too. Yeah. You know, she will, and we'll talk about it. Yeah. all right But in two weeks, 14th, two weeks, 14th, 14th, we will be reading ah but finishing, i believe 9.10 to the end of arc nine, which is, i think like another nine chapters.
02:42:02
Speaker
It's a lot. Yeah, it is. It is equal amounts. I believe it is another, think it's another 70,000, eight, and eight, eight more chapters. Yeah, 10 9.i. yeah reading times's a good times.
02:42:21
Speaker
Thank you so much. Michael, do you have song? song? sure do. I think I feel like Sean coming on.
02:42:35
Speaker
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02:43:02
Speaker
Hey, you guys are the best. Thanks for all the amazing comments tonight. This was really a lot of fun and you guys are really the best. i But yeah, it was a great night for comments. Thanks for engaging so much and we will see you in two weeks on the fourteenth
02:43:33
Speaker
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