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BBBC Reads Ward - Arc 15.a - 15.5 - Dying
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This story isn’t intended for young or sensitive readers. Readers who are on the lookout for trigger warnings are advised to give Worm a pass. Complete list of potential triggers: here
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The Brockton Bay Book Club discusses J.C. McCrae's Ward live! The gang reads a portion of Ward and comes together to share our thoughts with each other and anyone who want's to participate.
This week we cover Arc 15.a - 15.5 - Dying
Read along here
Play along with this week's BBBC BINGO while you listen!
Support us and connect with us @brocktonbaybc
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Thank you to the sponsors that fuel our podcast: This episode of the Brockton Bay Book Club is sponsored by Made Marion. Made Marion creates custom cottagecore and ren faire clothing designed for every body. Whether you’re looking for a lace up bodice, rustic apron and pinafores, or ethereal dresses, you’ll find items customized for every individual’s fit and design. All items are lovingly hand sewn with attention to detail and a touch of whimsy. Visit Made Marion today and transform your wardrobe with clothing that feels as enchanting as it looks. Find Made Marion on etsy, at https://www.etsy.com/shop/themademarion
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Transcript
Introduction and Book Discussion
00:00:00
Speaker
Good evening, Mega All of our heroes have disappeared. Don't you find that so very weird? Welcome to the Brockton Bay Book Club. Tonight, arc to 15.5.
00:00:18
Speaker
dying the first half fifteen hoin a to fifteen point five I am your host, Alan.
00:00:29
Speaker
Joining here, we have Hannah. ah Hello. Jacob. Hello. Nick. Hello there. And Michael. Welcome, everyone.
00:00:41
Speaker
Welcome,
Engagement and Merchandise
00:00:42
Speaker
welcome. For those of you who are listening ah pre-recorded, don't forget to check out our Patreon, where you can play bingo with us, talk with us, share memes, um request things. We are more than happy to do anything for our patrons.
00:00:58
Speaker
And don't forget about our cool merch, which Hannah is wearing tonight. that a Brockton Bay's a sweatshirt? It is.
00:01:09
Speaker
Phenomenal. Looks great. Thank you. um Well, yeah, for those of you have never been here before, I don't know why you wouldn't. Rockton Bay Book Club is a book club. Jumping in halfway through.
Reading Experiences and Action Scenes
00:01:20
Speaker
Right? Rockton Bay Book Club is a group of friends reading through Ward by J.C. McRae and discussing it. And then other people are here, too.
00:01:32
Speaker
Like J-Man, for instance. Hello, J-Man. But jumping into ARC-15...
00:01:40
Speaker
what a What a time. Let's begin with Nick. What are your thoughts? Initial thoughts. Initial thoughts. um Well, I want to give some context for my reading environment because it did definitely affect my reading. um i was on a flight last Tuesday on a family vacation, and that is when i Um, I read the arcs. I read all of it, 15, eight to 15, five.
00:02:10
Speaker
Um, however, I had woken up that morning at about three and thus, I was a little bit brain fogged. You might say, um, And so it it kind of bleeds together. And I think part of that is the arc and part of that is just myself. So I'll give a little bit of the benefit of the doubt ah to the arc. But for me, at least, it was interesting, but it also kind of bled together in a way that I started to feel like it's just action, action, action, and not...
00:02:44
Speaker
and not not as much of, not as many pauses in there that gave me a chance to be like, oh okay, cool. Like I can breathe. it This felt a lot more like worm action scenes maybe where it's like, Oh my gosh, so much is happening in this one half of this arc.
00:03:00
Speaker
Um, so that's both a good and a bad in the sense of like, there's a lot of action, lot of cool things happen, good little moments here and there, but it kind of started to bleed together in my mind. Like the, the chapter divisions are very unclear to me.
00:03:14
Speaker
o Yeah. Jacob. I actually kind of ah a kind of second that. but Not in a bad way, but i was I was kind of joking to myself. I was like, I know sometimes we'll we'll say, and let's just do the next two arcs or next two chapters together because they're kind of related. And I was like, outside of the interlude, do we just group 0.1 to 0.5? Because it's just the fight. And, you know, obviously not. But yeah, I mean, this was basically an entire action scene.
00:03:44
Speaker
action scene Which was kind of fun. I think it's it's been a minute since we've gotten ah a really prolonged fight scene in the story. And yeah, very reminiscent of ah of certain warm arcs.
00:03:58
Speaker
Just kind of fun. I always appreciate Wildbo's description of action and combat. I think it's it's one of his strengths for sure. So um yeah, not not i mean we'll get into the chapter some interesting things that happened. But overall...
00:04:11
Speaker
really just a fight. not not ah Not a whole lot on top of that. But obviously, first half of the arc, so we'll see what the back half brings us in a couple weeks.
Teacher's Threat and Fight Writing Style
00:04:20
Speaker
Hannah.
00:04:22
Speaker
um I was set for these. i ah i I've been saying so for so long that I truly find everything about teacher to be really obnoxious and really annoying, and I don't care. And I just don't i just i don't care. And i suddenly care. i think I think what I've been missing is the understanding of scale and how big of a problem teacher actually is, because it doesn't feel like he is. like It feels like he's this just distant problem.
00:04:49
Speaker
And I mean, it's in the interlude first, but this moment of like realization of like, oh wait, no, it's not like a base. It's like a it's like a city.
00:05:01
Speaker
like this is ah This is huge. And like it's easy it was easy for me to forget that he's built his base in the cauldron base, basically. And like, ah I had sort of forgotten that, which is stupid. Why would I have forgotten that? Because we've talked about it many times.
00:05:19
Speaker
ah And I think that just like this brought that scale into place where suddenly it was like, oh shit, wait. this is, this is big. This is, this is big. Oh shit. This is really big. Oh shit. And I basically spent every chapter.
00:05:38
Speaker
um I was listening to the audio book, but, uh, sitting here at my desk sewing. And every time I would like something like I would stop and I just sit in front of my computer because I'm just waiting to see who's going to die. Like I,
00:05:53
Speaker
You know, like you reach that point in Worm where it's like, who's going to die today? and I feel like that's how I was this whole time, just waiting. Who's going to die today? And who oh
00:06:07
Speaker
I clutched my pearls a couple of times. I'm not going to lie. Yeah. Yeah. Well, I think part of the part of it, too, right? We've we've talked about this problem with Ward and Worm and in a bit is like,
00:06:20
Speaker
geography and setting sometimes are secondary to what's happening and i feel like with worm if you think about it we basically visited two places in cauldron's base in worm right it was like one room a stairwell the room with eden yeah is basically all like a bit more than that we did see a bit more than that we knew we were in the prison and stuff but in terms of like cohesive structure it kind of felt like we didn't see much of the base and I think we did we did at least I i agree with you I kind of forgot I'm like oh yeah this place is huge actually and when you don't have when you don't have a portal cape teleporting you around it's huge and you know the scale is massive and I think this is
00:07:05
Speaker
when it felt massive, right? Like you said, it's like, oh yeah, this is this is a problem now. It's a city. It's not not a base. It's a city. They're attacking a city.
00:07:17
Speaker
So... Um, yeah, I have two pages of notes. One is a full page, almost, that is from 15.a. And then there are, like, three notes for the rest of the arc, and it doesn't even take up half a page.
00:07:36
Speaker
Um... Fair enough. Y'all know my thoughts on Wild Bo's fight scenes. um Anytime he tries to do geography and go blow by blow, I think it's incredibly boring.
00:07:49
Speaker
um And i like this is one of those things where I think it's just bad writing at that point. like You've got to learn your lesson. um And it brought up two things to mind.
00:07:59
Speaker
One is that... ah
00:08:04
Speaker
Hello future me does an excellent talk about fight scenes in his YouTube channel. Hello a future me. Excellent dialogue on fight scenes, uh, and how they're written in different styles.
00:08:19
Speaker
And he gives a great example of what concise, good, i you know, writing for a combat is, um, And we'll get to what actually happens in the combat.
00:08:32
Speaker
And the answer is not a lot. And then also we just had um every frame of painting make a return with Criterion ah to do a talk on fight scenes, wuxia, like Chinese-style fight, ah you know, movies, ah martial arts movies, with the movie The Blade from 1995.
00:09:00
Speaker
And The Blade feels like an excellent example of the visual kind of a lot of times of what's going on in Ward.
00:09:13
Speaker
um So I think if you go watch both of those videos, if you get the chance, Hello Future Me is on fight right fight scenes and every frame of painting on the blade.
00:09:27
Speaker
um But yeah, I love the interludes. Those are really great. Love seeing her character from the outside. The rest of it. Basically what y'all said, but his hand is tearing up.
00:09:42
Speaker
I think Hannah has faded into the gray. last year I can still hear her voice. ah ah like the little she is but ah ah She is but one of the flock now. yeah but but I realized my ring light wasn't on. I was like, why am I so dark?
00:10:02
Speaker
i But I had to crawl under my desk. It's fine. oh I'm here. We're good. ah A controlled blackout. Yeah. oh yeah Fran noted, I mostly imagine the cauldron base the levels in Portal. And that is exactly the color scheme and the vibe that I get from the cauldron base. lot of panels, a lot of white.
00:10:26
Speaker
But like that off-white. always of solid white. always think, what if you did the... of solid white i always think what if you did the opening episode for Star Wars, the rebel ship, the Corellian Cruiser, that they bust into, how it's just that bright, pure white.
00:10:47
Speaker
right Except change you know the angle from hexagonal to just flat. And that's the hallway. like That's the lighting. It's always incredibly well lit. yeah like yeah Does that mean the custodian is GLaDOS then?
00:11:06
Speaker
Yeah. GLaDOS of GLaDOS can't talk out loud. It's funny because i never, I think it is, I think it is described as pretty like clean and, and lit and all that. But in my mind, it's the opposite. I always picture. Always the back rooms. It's always, yeah, it's always the back rooms. It's always like panels falling off the wall. You what, actually, and now that I've always thought of it as the back rooms, but like yeah very well lit and white.
00:11:33
Speaker
But in the back rooms, yeah. You know, what now that I think about it, actually, my my mental image, although the portal thing works, I think my mental image, for some reason, i imagine these as dark hallways. So instead, it's more like gunmetal or like steel walls, but lit with like...
00:11:51
Speaker
Like dark blue light. It's lit, but it's lit in that way where like the lights only turn on. Yeah, like underlight. Yeah, yeah, But it's like underlighting, right? it was like like Right, yeah. Any spaceship movie. like Yeah, exactly. Aliens.
00:12:05
Speaker
Yeah. Or like a cool Airbnb that has like the lighting underneath it by the floor. And you're like, oh. but Exactly. wow Well, well, well. picture the, when Mr. Incredible makes it into the secret base.
00:12:19
Speaker
Oh, yes. That works too. Jeez Louise. Which I think has the same lighting thing actually. It's like... two Yeah, yeah, yeah. I thought you mentioned it. It flickers on as you go by.
Interludes and Character Perspectives
00:12:33
Speaker
Gosh.
00:12:34
Speaker
Well, with that in mind, do we want to go ahead and Do want to interlude by interlude? we want to do interlude by interlude Interlude by interlude? You mean chapter by chapter? Don't feel like it? No, there's like three different interludes. I say that, interlude by interlude, but there's three different points of view.
00:12:54
Speaker
Yeah, like, go on in the same interlude. I'm scared there for a second. was about to be like... Is there more than one interlude? Oh, shit. i will I'll read the summary. The summary doesn't give them individually named, but then we can get into each one and break it down. down yeah um But the general summary in 15A interlude various friends, family members, and teammates of the Shen prisoners greet them upon leaving the portal.
00:13:21
Speaker
Scenario briefs the heroes on the teacher attack and plans a second one with those who didn't attend the first.
00:13:31
Speaker
so Who was the... I'm trying to remember who the first one was. Was it Crystal? Yeah. Was she first? though got chris Crystal and then the Capricorn dad.
00:13:42
Speaker
Mr. Capricorn. Mr. Capricorn. Vera. Yeah, Ray Vera, I think.
00:13:47
Speaker
yeah ray vera i think Um, yeah, so I will say I've, I've tried listening to the audio books in a couple of different times. And this was one where I started it because I was on the plane, right? i was like, I'll listen to it.
00:14:02
Speaker
Um, and I started it and then I was like, I can't listen to Crystal with a British accent. It just, yeah Oh, I like her. I like that audio book. I gotta read it.
00:14:13
Speaker
I'm sure she's fine, but Yeah, she only narrates it for Crystal, and then switches. You've got three narrators. No, I figured that was the case. um No, it wasn't even... i think I listened to Crystal's... Whose was it? There was one... is somebody have an Australian accent? There was one accent that I was like, I can't. I can't listen to it right now. I gotta read this. I can't listen it. That's hilarious.
00:14:35
Speaker
Maybe it was, I think it was one of them. No, no, no. Sorry. It was, uh, the crystal being British was funny, but I did listen to that one. It was, and no, no shade to the audio book people. They're great what they do, but, um, it was Mr. Vera's I think, because, and this is a subtle thing, but he didn't differentiate between who was speaking Yeah. Like in his voice and in his intonation.
00:15:01
Speaker
And so i I realized I'm like two minutes into his section. I'm like, I have no idea who's talking or what's going on. I got to read this. I can't. I like when anytime there's a different language, so like for Capricorn, they all speak Spanish occasionally. And anytime someone says, instead of saying like, miho, they say like, miho or something. And I'm like, no. It's got that accent. You're like, oh, come on. Yeah. They're trying. They're trying.
00:15:37
Speaker
oh man Oh, I love the audio. what's up my joke They're fantastic. i john I absolutely love it. Always a fan. Yeah, rough yeah no, again, it's it's it's great that people have done that for free as just like a fair project. It's wonderful, but it definitely, the the lack of differentiation between voices, was like, I got to read this one, unfortunately.
00:16:00
Speaker
um And then I just read because I was like, this is faster anyway. But yeah. So it's okay. J-Man listed him out. Crystal, then Aaron, then Chastity, then Ray, then Number Lad 4.
00:16:13
Speaker
yeah all right yeah Yeah. Can't forget Number Lad 4. um Number Lad. ah Crystal. Crystal. Yeah. Ugh.
00:16:25
Speaker
I really like um the background that we get about Vista's family here from Crystal. It was really interesting. Basically got Vista's trigger event. Yeah.
00:16:36
Speaker
Holy moly. The concept that she stayed with the home, but the parents moved in and out for the weekend. that What is that judge on? Holy shit. Right.
00:16:49
Speaker
but like At that point in time, you flip a coin or just like... Yeah. or yeah Oh my gosh. I mean, i get I get the thought of like, well, listen, you have a you have a kid with powers and they need a stable environment.
00:17:04
Speaker
i I don't think she had powers then. I'm going to guess that... This is what caused the powers. Her being in an environment where she is with the space and she is being constantly tugged and stretched and pushed and pulled in an environment. well I'm going to guess that that is exactly what triggered her actually in that house.
00:17:26
Speaker
Yeah, that's kind of what I was imagining too. Yeah, fair. wait What a mess, man. Gosh, also, like, how self-absorbed do you have to be to, like, put your kid through that? Like, get over yourself. Like, I understand you don't get along with your spouse anymore. Like, suck it up. Don't be such a dick. Like, oh my gosh, that pissed me off.
00:17:46
Speaker
Jeez Louise. I mean, they named their child Missy. Like... can't be her actual, real first name. i know a Missy.
00:17:57
Speaker
i youll say and do and i knew a couple messies really that Missy wasn't short for like short for anything Miss Sandra I don't know my sand when you're but looking you know man and you're in town and your buddy's name is Buddy Chuck and it's not short for anything it's not i for Bartholomew Charles it's Buddy hyphen Chuck was yeah that's his god given name no missy Missy is often a nickname for Melissa or Michelle think her name actually might have been Melissa
00:18:30
Speaker
Okay, let's... yeah let's let's say i I do know a Missy around that I grew you know in college. it was That was her name.
00:18:42
Speaker
Oh, yeah, J-Man asking, but did he kill the dogs? I think he killed the dogs. don't think he sent them off to the farm. They're not in the cabin with gru i think he put pillowcase. think he put him in a pillowcase.
00:18:56
Speaker
room on the lake They're not in the cabin with Gru, they're in the cabin with Gru. Does work?
00:19:09
Speaker
Hey, you know what? you on another On another universe, on another Earth. Hey, maybe on this Earth we might get him back, you know? i mean, I don't... Is he part of the flock? We don't know.
00:19:23
Speaker
yeah i mean well I guess we'll get there eventually. i don't know, Valkyrie ever visit visit I mean, Gru died at the platform. They were all there. She got Clockblocker. So there's a chance she got him. I don't need that.
00:19:43
Speaker
let it go. I've let it go. He's gone. Alright. Okay, fine. i've let it go i've let it go he's gone all right okay fine Honestly, I'm more upset about Clockblocker just because I like Clockblocker better, I think.
00:20:00
Speaker
by here I'm back. Also, so oh if he came back as like one of her cool things, which we'll get to. We already we already know he he's kind of back from the interlude. Clockblocker is like, not be not back, obviously, but he's like yeah he's got a he's got a physical form. Yeah. you know So, it goes well.
00:20:20
Speaker
I'm very excited. Like the cameo. Hell yeah. Although in classic Wild Boat fashion, he'll get a cameo, he'll come out, do a cool clock block freeze on something, and then just get, like, decapitated immediately. No! I don't want to hear it. He's oh no one of being the thing that eats the unkillable things. Yeah. yeah Like the...
00:20:40
Speaker
It's like an Elijah Woods cameo in Spy Kids 3D. Yes. I'm the guy. I'm the guy'm the one. I'm the guy the guy. So funny. So funny. He's not the guy. but I'm the guy.
00:20:55
Speaker
Yeah. um But yeah. um Crystal's interlude. I do really like Crystal. She's one of those great side characters that we talked about before. great character um Just being...
00:21:07
Speaker
being part of Victoria's greater support system. And I love anytime we get somebody who knows Victoria and seeing her from an outside perspective, I really think that's a cool insight into her. Cause that moment where Victoria is not okay.
00:21:24
Speaker
And then she like takes a deep breath and like recenters herself and is okay. And Crystal's like, I, she is like, Like, just that veneer of, like, I can get through this and Crystal's seeing right through it of, like, I don't think you're, like, you need a nap. You need a long nap. More than one nap. Gosh.
00:21:43
Speaker
Yeah, it's... Oh, sorry, Jacob. Go ahead. No, go ahead. I was just going to say, it's it's very much like when we get um ah Gru's interlude in Worm of Skitter, of Taylor, and like how she crosses the street without looking because she doesn't need to. like It's that same thing of like you don't... I love i love that. like You don't get to see it because you're in her head all the time, but like the mannerisms that people who know you well see about you and see things that change about you, like that's that's really neat. That's like the sign of...
00:22:14
Speaker
having good people around you who can like see those changes in your micro expressions and your behavior and the little things that you do that make you, you. And, uh, yeah, no, I love crystal. Yeah.
00:22:26
Speaker
Yeah. It just further cements that like, even before the wretch and, and doubly. So now that like crystal sees that Victoria wears a body Um, and because of that is like purposeful and calculated about everything she does the same way that you would like pilot a suit.
00:22:50
Speaker
Yeah. Like it's things that are drilled into her from her mother, but also this body is a learned body the same way that like Sveta is having to learn a body.
00:23:02
Speaker
Like there are weird, like, you know, she's, she's always calculating the ideal positioning to, you know, which to most people they wouldn't notice, but to Crystal, she can see like kind of uncanny almost.
00:23:22
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. I really did appreciate, i do appreciate that perspective whenever we get that. So it is cool. I do have Victoria gets a nap soon. She doesn't need it. God, she needs a nap.
00:23:35
Speaker
get that woman a nap immediately. A nap and a nice sandwich. I mean, in in in this timeline, it's it's been, what, like three days since the start of the story? so I believe so, yes. Yeah, I think they said think that the days that had passed. one not theres Their first therapy session was just an hour ago, really. The chlamydia's been missing for almost 30 minutes. Yeah.
00:23:59
Speaker
That's why everything's gone shit so fast. There's a great, great moment. If you guys have watched any ah any actual play D&D of Critical Role, they do ah one of their side stories, but they spend an hour in one of their sessions literally just deciding what happens within a one-second time frame during combat.
00:24:18
Speaker
And it's like, it's so they start self-referencing and they make a ton of jokes, but I keep thinking about it whenever I'm reading this. That's hilarious. We'll read an entire arc and it's like... yeah So a minute ago when we were all talking, yeah, this the, the Naruto, like, so I know we've been standing here for two seconds analyzing where the chakra is.
00:24:40
Speaker
Yeah. But I've intentionally left my chakra open so that you can get behind me so that you can shadow clone Jutsumi and yeah, three episodes go by. Oh my gosh. Exactly.
00:24:54
Speaker
Yeah. Uh, well Any other notes on Crystal? um She's always cool. become Always cool. Her... When she um she gives the smile, because she doesn't know what's going what's happened yet. She has absolutely no information. And they come out, and she gives them a smile that she won't regret if there's bad news.
00:25:19
Speaker
but And, like, I immediately knew what smile... It's it's the, like... it's the like like kind of hopeful, like, I'm braced myself for whatever, Michael. I'm like, are we good? It's the soft eye smile.
00:25:32
Speaker
but like For me, the wide-eyed smile. It's the panic. It's the Michael Scott. the Smile with the lower teeth.
00:25:46
Speaker
yeah Lower teach. Oh, I love that. I never understand that. I need somebody to explain that to me when I say that, but I'm like, I don't know what that means. What you mean they smell? They're just mogging on these fools.
00:26:01
Speaker
Yes, right. We're inventing new phone. that correct? If you're green, you're a portal. Yeah. and Portal maxing. Anyways. No. smaxing. I hate it so much. Oh my god. It's so funny.
00:26:21
Speaker
no um Also, Cheryl came by herself. Mark stayed back to keep an eye on Amy. Yeah. ah but also Also, since we've been Crystal's head, how do you think she's going to react to Lady Photon and the Flock?
00:26:42
Speaker
I thought about that. oh Not well. well i guess yeah It's going to be a bad time. Not right. Yeah. Keep on trauma immediately, yes.
00:26:56
Speaker
Yeah. That's smiling with your lower teeth right there. That's...
00:27:03
Speaker
okay but yeah um By the way. um yeah Yeah, that's rough rough. That's rough, buddy.
00:27:17
Speaker
We'll move on to Aaron. On to Aaron is next.
Relationships and Character Development
00:27:20
Speaker
yeah I'm so happy that Aaron came for rain. um but Who's this dude with her? on no guy okay ok Who's guy? The guy is the guy. Lachlan's the guy who plays guitar at the bonfire. He has the giant cross on his back that says Jesus Virgin Motherfucking Christ on it. yeah so like that He was like... it was like Is she with Lachlan, though? Like, with Lachlan? Okay, okay, okay. have to talk about it. That's what need to know, because I feel like that was the vibe, I'm not happy with that. That's not cool. Right, okay. Agree, agree. So I felt like she's telling Rain. She's like, anytime you call, I will be there. Oh, my gosh. What do you mean? What do you mean? course I'm going to be here. They told me. And you were in prison. Of course I'm going to be here.
00:28:13
Speaker
she is about to brother zone you, my man. Like, is about... Like, Lachlan is actively, like, arm over your shoulder with his letterman jacket. And he's like, yeah, bro, we're both here for you. Absolutely come anytime you needed me to.
00:28:27
Speaker
who oh that like i don't I don't trust it. It makes me nervous. I don't like it. i Listen, I like Erin a lot. I think she and Rain would do great together.
00:28:40
Speaker
I also think that there's a lot of trauma there. She definitely shouldn't date Lachlan either. That's definitely a no zone. and a no no zone But like...
00:28:51
Speaker
no this she's she's building the wall she's building the friendship yeah a ultimately as long as she doesn't end up with Lachlan I'm okay with her not ending up with rain because I do understand there's a lot of trauma there yeah you know they've they've been through a lot together and you know sometimes your first crush shouldn't be the person you end up with forever however um and They also seem like they'd be great together, and and I support it. Plus, Rain's got game now, so like if if he doesn't end up with Aaron, then there's like...
00:29:28
Speaker
At least three of the heartbroken that'll be with him. so Yeah, you've been hanging around Chicken a little too long. No, I stand a Lachlan mostly because he's strong himbo energy and he does the one thing that I love, which is he is like, it really is the himbo energy and he's like recovering.
00:29:50
Speaker
Yeah. He's actively working on himself. He's like, he's working to become a himbo. He's not quite there yet. Well, he was always himbo. Like, even the him being like, like, Rain, like, but like, like a Rain, even though Rain is kind of the outcast at that point, but like, man, like, i want to get with your cousin. Yeah.
00:30:09
Speaker
can you put in a good word? You seem like a good guy, like but like genuinely. like He's just so straightforward about it. He's like, do you think you don't like this tattoo? Do you like this tattoo? he's like, true I mean, the artistry's done. It's, you know? the the one The one aspect of a good himbo he's he still needs to work on is ah the pureness of heart. He's not quite...
00:30:31
Speaker
yeah there yet, which is why I said he's himbo in training. Thick head, thick of heart, thick of ass. Thick of ass. Once again, I think that goes with that like he's just so honest that for him in that environment, he was very himbo-coded. He's like Kronk, where like he is actively doing the bad stuff.
00:30:55
Speaker
but But it's just but he there's no doubt of loyalty. <unk>s not a second There's barely a first thought. You know? yeah As to why he's doing it.
00:31:06
Speaker
Oh, gosh. It's just the list of movies we really need to watch. The Incredibles, Impersonal Groove. Yeah. know and But I do appreciate that Aaron, like you can see the thought process, right? Where it's like,
00:31:20
Speaker
key is He's probably the best example of like cognitive behavioral therapy in the book or in the story because it's like that's exactly what it is, right? You have the bad thought, the bad impulse. You see him actively turning the gears to rethink and reframe the scenario and then act on the positive thought rather than the negative thought where it's like like his first thought first thought, he sees rain and he's like immediately like angry. and then he's like, wait, no.
00:31:47
Speaker
Rain good. Rain good. Himbo. Absolute himbo. I love when he when he says, he says, like, yeah, well'll we'll hang out, because he leaves. Rain's like, yeah, we'll we'll hang out soon. Aaron's like, yeah, we will. And he, like, turns to Lachlan, he's like, we'll hang out soon. And Lachlan just pauses for a second and then nods for way too long. Just keeps nodding for, like...
00:32:14
Speaker
more nods than is necessary. All right. All right, Lachlan. Like, all right, Lachlan. All right. That's all right. It really is seeing honest rain before we get to him in the story, like in terms of recovery.
00:32:28
Speaker
Or the deprogramming, as they say. yeah like And Rain is still in the middle of that. He still talks about like when he encounters but when he's taught dealing with trish Tristan or talking with ah Kenzie, that like he still has the like racist, just homophobic thoughts and deals with them.
00:32:52
Speaker
And it doesn't like, but he's, you know, he's worked through that for a time. And it's probably, i mean, you know, a time that that they're not always the first thoughts, clearly. Yeah.
00:33:03
Speaker
And so it's nice to see, like, we're kind of going back and seeing like, oh yeah, we we have seen Rain at his worst, you know, in the dreams and whatnot. yeah And then we've seen him now, and this is kind of, Lachlan is kind of this good representation of what he looked like and the in the in-between, where he is still a hold to some programming, but he does have a good heart and he's trying to work through it.
00:33:26
Speaker
Yeah. okay He's trying his best. Yeah. He's trying his best. The deprogramming, it's not something that just happens overnight. And like, even if you know that that your brain is going in a direction that you your heart doesn't necessarily believe in like that that instinctual like mental response to something that you've been told your whole life is one way and as a you know you've gone through shit and you've and you're like you know that's not right it still takes a second yeah like and the fact that
00:34:03
Speaker
he's willing to work on it. And like, like Aaron says, her parents are still, still with the cult, basically. Yeah. And it's like, they're still Fallen. Even though Fallen don't exist anymore, like they're still Fallen. It's like saying the KKK doesn't exist anymore. Like, yeah, it does.
00:34:24
Speaker
does not openly exist. And it's sad to think that like even after everything, they're still... And it like she's a little brother. So like i and he's probably still under that influence.
00:34:40
Speaker
And like hopefully Aaron and Lachlan, like that can be a ah good influence on her little brother. And i don't know that it's possible to break that, you know, that line of thinking.
00:34:58
Speaker
ish o I would like to go to Bernard's question. It's a little break in between here. Do you think it was, it would have been better to have ended the last arc with these interludes?
00:35:14
Speaker
Or do you think they belong where they are at the beginning?
Interlude Placement Discussion
00:35:19
Speaker
No, i I read that question and I was thinking about it, and I think this makes the most sense. um Mostly because of what happens at the end of the interludes with Scenarial kind of briefing the heroes on what's coming up.
00:35:31
Speaker
um Plus, the I looked back to see how 14 ended, and it ended with Armstrong getting rescued by Sveta, and that felt like the perfect capstone to the prison arc.
00:35:43
Speaker
And I think putting this here, this feels like a transition chapter. It doesn't feel like an ending chapter. or interlude rather whereas armstrong's felt like an ending interlude so to speak so at least in my personal opinion i think it was well placed um because it sets up what's coming next right we get to see our heroes have a brief respite and then they're called away to keep doing what they're doing even though every single interlude is the person who came for them being commenting on like wow their stuff is broken they're exhausted i can tell they're tired well there they go saving the world again
00:36:16
Speaker
yeah you know No, stop, don't. Just... just There they go. yeah Goodbye, but when will I see you again? Never! Oh, never!
00:36:28
Speaker
Just Wild Bo taking Team Breakthrough, but it's the the scene with the baby from Kung Pao Enter the Fist. Oh, like the baby falls down the hill to the path. path The lady picks it up. Oh, baby, so cute. Bye-bye now! the Rolls it down the other hill. Breakthrough. so cute. Bye-bye. Oh, look at them. We got them out of prison. Bye-bye now.
00:36:53
Speaker
Yeah, and traffic you know um yeah we we put you we had you in prison in some confined quarters in one dimension.
00:37:04
Speaker
And now we're going to take you and put you in some confined quarters in another dimension. Yeah, I think this... um yeah i i think this would have been better as an epilogue for the last arc personally.
00:37:17
Speaker
I think if you think ah of a lot of the interludes that we have had working as epilogues um for them, I think they work a lot better as that.
00:37:31
Speaker
um You know, you finish the arc, you're done, you're with, you know, you can breathe, and then this is your moment to be like, oh, and then we have, you know, tying some loose ends, see some pleasantries, especially after all the terrible stuff, and then move into your next set of action.
00:37:50
Speaker
I think having it start with this, what I feel like is not a build-up to the what we're about to do, um I think kind of makes it...
00:38:03
Speaker
So that, I don't know, i don't I don't think it fits with the rest of the arc personally. I personally like it here at the beginning of the arc. I don't like, um I think i ah ah ah Number Lad 4 as the last bit of this, I think wasn't,
00:38:26
Speaker
I didn't like as well. um I think if it had been an interlude just with kind of like the the the welcoming committee, um you know, as as they're coming back, just leaving it like that, I would have preferred it.
00:38:39
Speaker
um And then the information that we get... ear about what's going on and like what we're coming into, we you can just do in the next chapter, which has a little bit of like a flash-forward, flash-back kind of thing, um which you know has its own problems. But ah I kind of like it as a palate cleanser. I don't think I would have wanted to end the previous arc with it, but i See, I don't know if it necessarily...
00:39:13
Speaker
I almost want it to be an in-between arc. And it's not the beginning of 15. It's not the end of 14. It's just kind of like this little buttered toast in the middle that like we get this little palate cleanser. We get this little moment of like, okay, how are our people doing from everyone who loves them's perspective?
00:39:33
Speaker
And now we're going into
Chastity and the Heartbroken Dynamics
00:39:34
Speaker
it. so i I think it works better at the beginning of 15 than the end 14. at the end of fourteen
00:39:46
Speaker
Good question, Bernard. Thank you. Great question. ah Chastity.
00:39:59
Speaker
Mm-hmm. Gosh. I... Listen. I love the Heartbroken. They're just a they're just a ah little offshoot of the Undersiders, and I love the Undersiders. So, like...
00:40:12
Speaker
Just, you know, the the weird cousins of the Undersiders is the Heartbroken. So any Heartbroken, i ah yeah.
00:40:22
Speaker
Gosh, Charity. Oversiders. The overightrs yeah Oversiders. under mean Yeah, gosh. Yeah, the Heartbroken.
00:40:33
Speaker
i think Tattletail mentions this at some point later on, which is like, This group is barely hanging on. Like, it's, they're all just, it's a, it's a just a disaster waiting to happen. And like, I love that they never quite break down, but you do kind of, you you have that wonder the whole time. You're like, how are you all still functioning?
00:40:55
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, yeah know they' there you see all the cracks, but they they manage to stick together. um Yeah, as Bernard points out, Imp is so far the glue that kind of seems to be holding them together in a surprising way. Again, how? How? we know Yeah, that's such a weird... She's such a weird pseudo-parent for them. yeah like that yeah I never would have picked Imp for it, but also she's perfect.
00:41:22
Speaker
like She is. She is. What the heck? maybe it's like the no nonsense kind of attitude that they need where, because they're, they are all at once traumatized, abused and spoiled.
00:41:39
Speaker
Yeah. Like, like somehow all at once, yeah that combination of worse traits. Um, and she just, that no nonsense of like, no, no, we're not doing that right now, guys.
00:41:50
Speaker
Um, It's so fascinating. i do love i don't think it was in this one. I feel like it was in a different one where she explains like why like one of them was like, why'd you adopt us anyway? like You didn't have to. You could have just left. And she's like, I don't know, man. i i made a promise to Regent and then I killed your dad and then I felt bad.
00:42:10
Speaker
yeah Yeah. It's point four, I think. yeah I was like, yeah, I killed your dad. And they were like, wow, dad's dead. I guess we're going to go watch cartoons. Oh. Oh my god. Fucking mess. ish Great. um I do love to... ah How is it? Chastity? Charity? Which one is it?
00:42:34
Speaker
Chastity? Yeah, Chastity. um she's like she She clocks Aaron and she's with Rain and like, ah, that's the girl he's into. I get it. I don't approve, but I get it. Yes, yes. Oh, man.
00:42:49
Speaker
oh man And then just that side thought of like, I can wait. like that i can wait for him. He'll figure it out eventually. Yeah. Yeah, i I do feel really sad. she She very much thinks of herself as like, yeah, I'm just going to be alone.
00:43:06
Speaker
And that's just probably how it's going to be. And like, i mean it makes it i mean, it makes sense with your power and your trauma and your everything else. Like, that's probably would be the smartest thing.
00:43:21
Speaker
um Yeah. That doesn't stop it from being really sad. Yeah. Yeah. Shot at having a normal relationship is probably a quite low.
00:43:34
Speaker
Quite low. Yeah. For all the heartbroken, seems a bit... I mean, pretty much for any cape, though. You know? I mean, the heartbroken in particular, because they have emotion powers and they have a particular kind of sexual romantic trauma, um...
00:43:48
Speaker
But, ah yeah, for any cape, it seems, you know, normal relationship is never going to be exactly what, you know, what you'll find. Yeah. i I love that I have Cassie and Chassie as bad biddies.
00:44:07
Speaker
Yeah. Be old ladies together. Gosh, that's depressing, too. I mean... every every girl I know has another girlfriend in her life or girlfriend in her life that's like, we're gonna, like, so we're both, like, happily married, but we're still gonna, like, we're gonna grow old together. Like, me and my best friend have an understanding that after I kill Alan for the insurance money, we are gonna go live in a little cottage in Scotland and have runner ducks and days, and it's that's just gonna be our life. Like, we are all have this understanding together, knowing the realities of our current lives. ah
00:44:46
Speaker
So like, I just, that's really cute. Yeah.
00:44:53
Speaker
Join the patron to follow the tragic story of Alan's demise. yeah but Listen, that insurance payout. Certainly, certainly it is quite, quite too bad. He's like really likable.
00:45:13
Speaker
Yeah. I might cry a tear or two. Yeah. Wipe your tears away with the dollar bill. yeah yeah exactly how will i survive?
00:45:25
Speaker
yeah ah My plane ticket to to Scotland in my hand. Yeah. yeah As Fran mentioned, she could date all six number boys. They are a package deal. Reverse harem.
00:45:42
Speaker
that is the That is a polycule of sorts. That is a polycule. That's a pretty polycule of them to offer. Polyhex.
00:45:54
Speaker
Also, aren't they all like vaguely aware of each other? All the number lads? Oh, yeah, I think so. Yeah, because their shards are tied. Yeah, that would make...
00:46:10
Speaker
Interesting plot. Interesting plot. Hold on. Bring it Bring it
00:46:22
Speaker
bring it back. Interesting plot. Yes, bringing it back. Listen. J-Man points out, I love that we learn that Darlene hates Kahoot. ah Yeah, thank God. That's a terrible name. I'm so glad they called it out.
00:46:35
Speaker
ah but She's like, I just liked that you gave me a name. Like, darling!
00:46:42
Speaker
I think that Kahoot is a great name for their team.
00:46:52
Speaker
You've got the hoot for the bird. And then the rest of them are kind of like in cahoots. Yeah. Like all of them. I... It sounds like a board game. like it Here's the thing. we gonna say groups it is First off, it is a board game thing it's because you hear Kahoot from your educational days. but yeah yeah Kahoot is childlike because they're children.
Team Name Debate and Pickleball
00:47:18
Speaker
does work yeah And much like Breakthrough is about therapy breakthrough, the children are in Kahoot and they're like semi-villainous. Like...
00:47:30
Speaker
of This is a little heist group that specializes in emotional manipulation, spying, and like getting up to no good. like That's what they're there for. like my issue is that the Cahoots sounds like a nineteen fifty s boy band.
00:47:47
Speaker
and why Why are we calling the Cahoots? They're just Kahoot. Just like it's Breakthrough. It's singular. It's not Sonic's. It's not Burger King. Chicken Little and the Cahoots. Chicken Little and the Cahoots. Oh, no. That's fantastic. But I really love it. that's That's a band that plays at sock hops. That is a band. Yeah, that's a sock hop band. the the pe Hey, everybody, we're at Chicken Little and the Cahoots. yeah I feel like they would they would ah they would open for like a game of Banana Ball these days. yeah Right. right
00:48:23
Speaker
What the hell is banana ball? Oh, you haven't followed banana ball, Alan? Oh, are we talking about the savannah bananas? Yes. yeah Okay. I thought that you had either A, ah didn't know that it was called pickleball, and perhaps did and were just insulting it, which is fair.
00:48:44
Speaker
Or there was a new version of it that was sweeping the nation and I was fucking out of it. I do like the idea of just of just tennis getting regressively more simple and just changing the fruit or the or the food for it.
00:49:02
Speaker
like Banana ball or pickleball but bigger paddles and a smaller field. Hold on, hold on. Question. What is pickleball like? the What is the ball like? um Is it not a wiffle?
00:49:15
Speaker
It's most akin to a wiffle ball, I'd say. Okay. I was hoping it would be less. That way I could suggest the wiffle ball because I want banana ball to be something that has even more aerodynamic hook on it.
00:49:28
Speaker
Like if you smack that thing, you can make it do a 90 degree turn like on a dime. Smaller field, just the ball, and you can slap that thing and make it backspin like a motherfucker.
00:49:42
Speaker
I mean, they do out they already have professional wiffleball leagues. I know, and i've that's why I was saying I've seen those pitches. You combine that with like ping pong? That's true. Good point. you know I've never seen pickleball played in my life, but I imagine it doesn't do that.
00:49:59
Speaker
I've actually always wanted to play pickleball, but I never have. This is clearly a phenomenon that I do not have my finger on the pulse of, unfortunately. As soon as they were like, oh, and old people are competitive, I'm like, it's not a real game.
00:50:11
Speaker
yeah My mom doesn't like it because it's too fast for her, so... Well, your mother's too old for old people, so... Damn!
00:50:21
Speaker
Throw Jenny under the bus! That's burning. Yeah, uh... Chastity... i love her whipping out the whip.
00:50:34
Speaker
And in my head, as soon as she did that, and, like, half the parents were like, oh my gosh! I just... Instantly went to the whitest kids you know. The dads in the backyard. Nothing wrong with that. Just gets out of bullwhip is like, get on the curb.
00:50:59
Speaker
Just just all all the dads just in their belt. Nothing wrong with that. Nothing wrong with that. yeah I would have done it myself, but you know i'm so I'm in costume.
00:51:12
Speaker
Oh, man. yeah Yeah, that was... Hey, you know, parenting's hard.
00:51:20
Speaker
and no I see it, Fran. As you put, i you thought pickleball was a meme about white gringo games. It still is. Not wrong. It is a joke.
00:51:30
Speaker
Just, some people don't know that. Yeah. it's Here's the thing. If you've... If you've played tennis or ping pong, it's basically the worst middle ground between those.
00:51:42
Speaker
um but still But still annoyingly fun. It's probably the same people that think wrestling is real. I was going to say, if thinking pickleball, it is a sport. Okay, we'll just acknowledge that. But the way that they acknowledge that that's a sport is that like the same way that people...
00:52:04
Speaker
believe that like CW shows are drama. yeah That makes sense. or leave now be out of this we got to it's good you guys what true its that We've already said CW give us that worm green light. Yeah. Truett said but I have a friend writing a magical realism book about pickleball.
00:52:25
Speaker
Oh, that's... see that's what he' and Please send us chapters to review. Yeah, we would love to... Listen, listen, hear me out. Unless your friend is Chuck Tingle.
00:52:37
Speaker
if you I mean, if you don't know if anybody can do it. If you've listened to Alan's... If our patrons have listened to to Alan's talks on anime, ah he but you know, talk about sports anime, Pickleball would make a good sports anime. True. Has all the parts.
00:52:55
Speaker
all parts It does. All the crazy names, yeah. yeah Don't step into the kitchen.
00:53:04
Speaker
I don't need you to throw up like right now. That's a real a real thing that happens in Nickelball. He saved it. That's proving that our boy Beckford is a himbo.
00:53:16
Speaker
He's just back there just like...
00:53:22
Speaker
but I was like, my man. Yeah, we've all been there. There you go um Crazy Monday Night. yeah and We're still in the interlude, guys. To be fair, is this is where all of Alan's notes were. we already said look And we're going to be like, Nick, you just read 0.1 to 0.5. It's all the same. Hold on. We still have more of that. so oh no i put move on i was there We're talking about the next half of the podcast. Anything yeah anything else on ah chastity?
00:53:57
Speaker
just cool Oh, Truett said it's their creative writing master's thesis, so I'm not allowed to share any of it. That sucks. oh I mean, not that they that they're working on a creative writing master's thesis, just that we don't get to read any of it. It doesn't imply that maybe of but one day it would be published, which would be... Hell yeah. Let us know. Let us know, because we'll follow up on that.
00:54:17
Speaker
Yeah, yeah. ah Great.
00:54:23
Speaker
Who's next? Next is Numberlad, I believe. Or did we miss? I think we missed Ray Vera. was going to say, oh we have to do Ray next brave vera Ray...
00:54:36
Speaker
um h josh
00:54:41
Speaker
Gosh. Oh, I was going to say that my joke about parenting is hard. I was going to follow it up with um You know, I used to be one of those people who was like, I'd never put my kid on a leash.
00:54:52
Speaker
um And while I have never personally put my kids on a leash, it's because they're darling angels who do no wrong. um But after having spent a after having spent a week um with my niece and nephew, some kids need a leash.
00:55:07
Speaker
Oh, some shots fired. Some kids need a leash. And it's it's not it's not my brother's or his wife's parenting. It's those kids are monsters. Yeah. Look, I... This is why kids are like in a scary zone. You never know what you're going to get. You could get... Truly, truly, truly, like black and white, like water and i like water and fire. like just They're polar opposites. It's crazy. now Look, some kids are happy to sit on the ground and just pick grass and throw it in the air.
00:55:40
Speaker
Others need to have that dog auger stuck in the grem middle of the yard with the you know the long chain on it wear themselves out.
00:55:50
Speaker
yeah well no More reasons why is a and I don't just Nick is the only safe person in this podcast is like yeah I have a kid we're all like yeah that's probably fine and the rest of us I'm great with children and you know that actually that's very true tell me they wouldn't love that Shane
00:56:12
Speaker
They would ask for to take turns. Let's be honest. That's right. They would. That's right. They would. don't know. Have you been good? ah's my yeah i am good god Have you been good? All right, I'll chain you up in the backyard.
00:56:32
Speaker
I'd Tom Sawyer the daylights out of those children. Father, can I have another bread crust to eat while I'm chained up in the backyard? Oh, I don't know. Did you did you paint the fence? Yeah.
00:56:47
Speaker
like Oh my god. Okay, we gotta move on. What will you give me hey if i let you paint the fence? Ray Vera. look good Let's get to a a different dad, please.
00:57:00
Speaker
you that Ray? Mr. Vera? vera Michael, how do you pronounce that? What is it? He's not Peruvian, Nick.
00:57:13
Speaker
no Fair enough. Um... fish though yes and so you call ray between Peruvian Spanish and i don't know where they're from where their family is from ah do they say they're from Brockton Bay they're not i know it doesn't know Um, yeah, so um, again, it's, I really do enjoy seeing our characters from the outside perspective of somebody who knows them.
00:57:47
Speaker
And I feel like Ray is, ah you know, Ray is is a good person for that because we do know, right, there's that antagonistic relationship between Tristan and his mom. Um,
00:58:00
Speaker
And so seeing Ray trying to bridge that gap, right? Trying to be like, hey, I need to talk to Tristan for a second. Tristan, please try to talk to your mom. She's probably not going to want to talk to you, but you still should try. it Like we, you know, just keep trying. And it's it's sad. Like I,
00:58:19
Speaker
man Of all the like terrible parenting moments or things that I would imagine would be terrible to go through as a parent ah from Worm, this is definitely one of the top ones where not only are your kids capes, and you can only see them half half of the time because of the way their powers merged, you also are dealing with the grief and the fact that for a while you thought one of them was dead, but it turns out the other one just killed the other,
00:58:48
Speaker
And so you're dealing with that grief and pain. Like, this is just, I give a lot of props to his dad of being as understanding as he is. um You know, and basically saying, like, if Byron can forgive you, then I'm going to do my best to.
00:59:03
Speaker
Like, just, oh, man, I can't imagine, like, what that would be like as a parent. Yeah. It's tough.
00:59:14
Speaker
I once babysat two brothers that tried to kill each other. Um, and I tell that story as a funny haha, not as being their parent, but like I watched one throw a set of pliers at the other's head. Like all I saw was them come like through the doorway and the pliers stick in the wood, like right behind their head.
00:59:41
Speaker
and, We're going to talk about having to tie children up. I was like 13. thirteen And they were like, I just got my baby When you're a babysitter, a babysitter at 13. When you're a horse leading a dog. um yeah Yeah. No, I just got my babysitter's license. and And or by that I mean like first date and all that.
01:00:06
Speaker
yeah Yeah, and these two boys tried to kill each other. And I think about that, like, that just seemed like upping, because, you know, don't have the frame of reference, but that just seemed like upping silver so sibling rivalry slash whatever.
01:00:21
Speaker
And so, like, in a weird way, because that's such a a trope, it feels like it's in some weird, more forgivable space
01:00:41
Speaker
as a concept. But, um,
01:00:48
Speaker
I don't know. I think also, once again, I'm a very forgiving person for anybody who's trying. And Tristan seems like he's trying. yeah Also Truett, not everybody gets their babysitter's license at 13. When you're on a military base, you can stay home ah ah ten and i think eleven and then at 11, you can babysit your siblings. And then I think at 12, you can babysit other people's ah children. Interesting.
01:01:18
Speaker
but you have to get your first aid certification through red cross, uh, for being able to babysit before you're allowed to babysit other people's kids. This is why I said before, we don't have to get into it. Cause Alan is a whole thing.
01:01:31
Speaker
all Yeah, that is. Uh, J man kind of brought up what you were talking about, Alan, uh, that whole like Tristan trying, ah He said, how how would y'all navigate the Byron Tristan situation if you were their parent? Big difference between this and Amy's situation is Byron forgives, but it still seems rough. I mean, yeah, i think um i think that would be the difference. There's a couple of differences that are key there, is that Amy
01:02:05
Speaker
amy does not seem to be trying in the sense of
01:02:12
Speaker
truly begging for forgiveness. We haven't seen that scene with Tristan and Byron, but the breakdown, Tristan's breakdown, i think there's probably enough implied that there must have been that kind of breakdown for Tristan where he was like, I'm so sorry for what I've done.
01:02:31
Speaker
um In order for Byron to be where he is today, i think. Um, there must have been something like that. Whereas with Amy, the two differences are one, she doesn't seem to be trying and two, dare I say she is still perhaps a threat to Victoria of repeating what she had done. Extremely so.
01:02:51
Speaker
Um, absolutely because there are still those unresolved feelings that Amy has towards Victoria. and Whereas, and and that's what complicates it, right? And it's not to say like one crime is necessarily worse than another, but murder in Tristan's case is certainly worse than, or not as bad in my mind as the body, physical and sexual and psychological abuse that Amy committed to victoria on Victoria um to the point where
01:03:28
Speaker
If one of my kids tried to do to one of my other kids what Tristan did to Byron, I could see a ah path to redemption. If one of my kids did to Victoria or did to the other what Amy did to Victoria or an analogous real-world version of that, I don't know that I could forgive that and that that would be something that would result in me cutting out that kid from my life. And that I say that as a parent thinking about the the pain of having to cut a kid off like that mean so you know that's that's just my take as a parent um but i don't know i mean either either way it sucks and i also get tristan's mom not being like you know what like i i don't know that i forgive him yet like i'm not there yet i can't i can't be there yet and i i get that too so yeah
01:04:24
Speaker
Because you had like that and then the end of the world, you know, I don't know how, what the difference in time is for that, but I've got to imagine it's probably relatively close. So I don't know how.
01:04:38
Speaker
Yeah. I mean, how long has it been? Because Tristan and Byron, Byron triggered weeks.
01:04:47
Speaker
Tristan and Byron surprised the dads over. triggered prior to Gold Morning, right? Yes. Yeah. Because they were on that hero team for a bit. Right, orre right. So, but either way, it would have been it wouldn't have been that long prior to Gold Morning.
01:05:04
Speaker
Like, they probably triggered after Taylor had been running around at Brockton Bay for a little bit. Pre-Time Jump, you know. Yeah. Yeah, hard to know exactly. It's to know exactly. All I was really getting at was mom and dad have definitely had probably a good 20-ish plus years of living in a Cape world before
Parenting with Powers and Redemption Arcs
01:05:26
Speaker
all of this. And so it's that weird part of trying to figure out exactly how people would have been reacting to things having spent a majority of their life in that kind of world. And also at this point...
01:05:40
Speaker
again, as readers we know, but as capes, maybe only a few of them really understand the entity's desire for conflict, right? So like, that whole aspect, like watching people you care about, not one, getting affected by powers, and then two, getting more aggressive naturally over time is probably really, really hard to come to terms with.
01:06:11
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah, i I think about... Like, just worst-case scenario. Like, ah with my anxiety, I'm always thinking about worst-case scenario. Like, and and this is, like...
01:06:27
Speaker
the percentage of of people who end up getting powers, so small, and you don't think it's going to happen to you And then it happens to you, and it's your kids. And not only do they both now have powers, they're both also stuck in one body now. Like, that is that is beyond worst-case scenario in your head as a parent. Like, I can imagine as a parent in a superhero world where you're like, oh, yeah, well, my kid could get powers. They could become a villain. Like, okay, well, what if your kids got powers, and then they were stuck in the same body, and then one tried to basically kill the other one?
01:06:58
Speaker
like made the other one disappear basically like the I I cannot imagine how that would be easy at all um to to move past yeah as a parent like I can't I can't even imagine what that must must be like and also at the same time i can very easily imagine ah the idea of With Amy and and Vicky and what happens with them and being like... That seems like a hard... Almost like an easier choice than the Tristan-Byron situation.
01:07:38
Speaker
Because with Amy, that's such... It's like... It's just so...
01:07:46
Speaker
the Like, there's... What do you mean? like there It's almost like my brain doesn't want to wrap around it to say that it's easy to just say, no, we're done.
01:07:57
Speaker
We're done. No. And... I think the thing with Amy that's the biggest issue is that she's not truly sorry. Because to be sorry, to feel guilt over something that you've done, true guilt, not just a victim complex, which is Amy to a T, but true guilt about something that you've done, which I think differentiates her from Byron, is that Amy still is not...
01:08:25
Speaker
doesn't believe that she's really done something awful. Like, obviously, i shouldn't have done that. i I hurt you. But she doesn't really see herself as the villain here. She wants to victimize herself. She doesn't see what she's done as really a problem. And therefore, because she's had no self-examination, no true examination of her...
01:08:47
Speaker
what it means to be sorry, what it means for me to truly seek penance for what I have done. She hasn't made any of those steps. We see it over and over again. She doesn't she doesn't she doesn't follow Vicky's boundaries that Vicky has to set and reset over and over and over again.
01:09:06
Speaker
And she continues to just push right past them again and again and toe the line. And on the other side, you have Byron and Tristan, where Tristan and Byron have a setup now where if they don't do regular check-ins, someone comes and dismantles them. So, like, to me, that is, that shows me that Tristan has been like, yeah, I, I screwed up really bad.
01:09:29
Speaker
And I need to have things in place that I never, ever do that again. Like, that can never happen. And he's put... They've put things in place so that it never happens.
01:09:41
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. And that is... that I think that that just shows a vast difference between the two. Where, like... The boys have worked out a system, and it's not great, obviously. Yeah. And it's incredibly complicated and very difficult for both of their social and romantic lives.
01:10:00
Speaker
But they've figured out something that has it is working, that has safeguards in place. Meanwhile, Amy, what the fuck, man? Like, she putting no safeguards in place, not monitoring, monitoring herself or holding herself accountable, which the boys are doing like it's there's. Yeah. Well, yeah. Yeah.
01:10:23
Speaker
Amy's the epitome of the, yeah well, I'm sorry that you feel like I hurt you. you know yeah Yeah, exactly. Or the, Oh yeah. I'm sorry, but I didn't mean to kind of those like half-assed apologies, right? Where like, uh, I didn't mean for that to happen or I didn't mean for it to go that far or, you know, it's, it's something, um, it's something that, uh, my wife and I've talked a lot about, you know, the, like,
01:10:51
Speaker
kind of the like joke about like the the person who cheats on their spouse because she watch she's watched a lot of like Grey's Anatomy and that happens all the time in there. And it's always that like aim to get drunk and sleep with them. And it's like, what do you mean you didn't mean to? It's like,
01:11:06
Speaker
you didn't purposefully not do it. Like you didn't stop yourself from doing it. Like obviously you didn't care enough to stop. yeah And that's, that's the issue with Amy is it's exactly that kind of apology of like, well, i didn't mean to. and bri And even then she still only fixed it once, you know, God herself said, fix it.
01:11:25
Speaker
So yeah. Jeez Louise. That just, God. Yeah, we could go off on Amy even more. Amy's not even into this argument. I know, right? I could just i get a harp on her for forever. She is i you get that been should have been the of the whole story. yeah Hannah, hannah can we get can we get t-shirts that just no context say hashtag fuck Amy?
01:11:47
Speaker
yeah You know, i I'm trying to think of how many Amy's are in my life and I think we're safe for to wear at one of those. You know what? hear hear me out Hear me out. If you can come up with a really clever ah design that doesn't say fuck on it.
01:12:06
Speaker
Amy everything wrong. Amy did everything wrong. You're the problem, Amy. Something like that. Amy's the problem. Amy is the problem. no just Amy, what i what i want to go go to the birdcage, Amy. now what i what i wanted to be what I wanted to be is like a really a really nice like knit sweater and then like right on the hem in really tiny letters is like a little knit thing that just says hashtag fuck Amy. But just like in little tiny letters. So tiny if you weren't live you just think it's like one of those like fancy like stitch squiggles, you know?
01:12:40
Speaker
well i ah but workshop I don't know. well I don't think I can make that happen, but I appreciate the idea. I'll work on it.
01:12:52
Speaker
As you pointed out, ah she does know she did something wrong. However, it is like constantly this battle to mitigate what she's done wrong.
01:13:07
Speaker
like She is... and And this is even the like an Amy's not trying to do anything. Amy's trying to do everything in the wrong direction. She's like complains about like how hard she's worked to like try to make up for what she's done.
01:13:28
Speaker
and everybody is saying nobody's asking for that. just wants you to like get therapy and apologize. And she's like, but I'm doing everything else. But that is like, well, then it doesn't matter. Like you can do all of that stuff. You can go over and take care of getting rid of half the villains in the universe. It doesn't matter. Nobody cares. That's not what anybody asked for.
01:13:58
Speaker
And so like she's wearing herself out. Number one, trying to mitigate all of the like blame. Like it was my fault. I will admit that.
01:14:10
Speaker
But I was really cranky and I didn't have um have a good i didn't I didn't have a big breakfast and my blood sugar levels were low. And also I was under like an immense amount of stress from like schoolwork and having a tough parenting thing. So like really when you think about it, like it's obviously still my fault.
01:14:30
Speaker
But like how much of it is really ah am I to blame? and she just keeps on with that. Yeah, like if i if only my parents had loved me more, and I had more nutrition, and, you know, but like, if I wasn't born a bitch, like, I would never have done such a thing. It's like, but you did do it. And yeah you have to take responsibility for your actions.
01:14:59
Speaker
like Yeah. nobody mind-controlled you as much as she will try to convince you that Jack Slash and Bonesaw did.
01:15:11
Speaker
yeah like She's like, now I know he doesn't have mind-control powers, but there's something there that that broadcast shard, and it's like, Amy, we've tested it, that broadcast shard only it like is a danger sense. She's like, but is it? Yeah, yeah yeah and but you say that Victoria doesn't want an apology. She wants her to stay away from her forever. And that's the thing. like I think that's the defining difference. is that that she Amy just wants to feel better. She doesn't want to actually do the work. Because doing the work is going to therapy. which has she clearly She's like, well, it didn't work for me. it's like good well Then you didn't try hard enough.
01:15:52
Speaker
um And also, ah that she's been asked multiple times to back off. To not... you know, not follow Amy, not, ah not follow Amy, not follow Vicky, not to touch her, not to see her. She doesn't want to see, like, I don't know how Victoria can make it any clearer. And Amy continues to push that boundary because, and this is something Nick said episodes, episodes, episodes ago. And I think about this all the freaking time, but this idea that like, she, she,
01:16:21
Speaker
She wants what she wants, and she thinks that if only she can, if only I could fix it, if only I can say the right thing, do the right thing, i can make this okay.
01:16:35
Speaker
It's like, if I could just get you to listen to me, we see this in the last in the last arc, if i if you we could just sit down for 30 minutes and just talk that I can fix this. Like, you can't.
01:16:48
Speaker
Nothing you say in no infinite universes, nothing you can say, nothing you can do will change what you've done. And the best penance you can do is to listen, shut up, and do the work.
01:17:05
Speaker
Because that's not happening here. And, like, I'm a very big believer in... in in like Of course, circumstances are tough.
01:17:17
Speaker
And when you don't have good people around you, when you don't have good self-esteem, when you don't have... like Those things absolutely affect your choices that you make, and how you see yourself, how you see the world around you. But it is on you as an individual. It is on me as an individual to see the things that do to affect other people and affect the world and affect myself and make the changes, make the steps to work on that. Because no one can change that except for me.
01:17:48
Speaker
i am the only one who can. And so i do the work. I go to therapy. I listen. i try not to I try not to. Oh, yeah. Anyway, we're not going to get into all of the problems that Hannah has. But my point, though, is that, like, it's on Amy to decide how she wants to react now that she's made that what's done is done. What's passed is in the past. but What you do now today ah is is what matters.
01:18:15
Speaker
And she continually pushes past that line. And I'm so sorry we made it about Amy again. i can't help it, you guys! I'm so sorry! Because I always have to relate everything to a Simpsons quote at some point in my life.
01:18:31
Speaker
um There's a great Simpsons line that I think just encapsulates Amy's mentality. It's two throwaway characters ah background interaction. And the one goes up to the other one and says, I'm so sorry, i accidentally ran over your dog.
01:18:46
Speaker
There's a pause. It goes... Well, by accidentally I mean repeatedly, and by dog I meant son. It's so great. I feel like that's Amy.
01:19:00
Speaker
I'm so sorry for what I've accidentally done. And by accidentally done, I mean on purpose over a prolonged amount of time for which I'm not sorry at all. exactly yes yeah That's the t-shirt. um yeah and i will say I will say too that probably the biggest difference because going back to my own kids,
01:19:19
Speaker
if if one of my kids tried to murder the other one and that other one wanted never to have anything to do with the attempted murderer i think i would get that the difference is that um tristan and byron don't have a choice they're stuck together they have to cope right yeah it's they have to find a way to to exist or they must cease existing And Amy, of course, does not have that advantage with Victoria where they are separate people.
01:19:50
Speaker
um Yeah, I mean, we we know we have so many examples of this that they're aware of. Like, divorces exist. Yeah, exactly. Like, just treat your siblings like a really unamicable divorce.
01:20:07
Speaker
They cannot be at the same parties. Like, that's great that you're willing to forgive Amy, but you just have to treat this like they cannot exist at the same time.
01:20:19
Speaker
separate Christmases, all that jazz. Like, it's not that hard of a concept. um And, you know, we'll drag Carol into this. of yeah what Oh, Hannah.
01:20:32
Speaker
Sorry. right Listen, I don't watch reality television. Amy is my reality television. oh Holy shit. All right, Alan, please continue. No, my my last thing on this is, we probably talked about this before, but the um the forgiveness sin cycle, ah and then that's just religious talk for the same thing that people do. You have the um the joy of committing an act ah that you know is wrong, so you get to feel good.
01:21:03
Speaker
um But then you ask for forgiveness, which is also... of a high because you are like, Oh, I'm doing the right thing. So you also get to feel good.
01:21:19
Speaker
And then after that, you can go do it again because you just got two highs for the price of one. So like physiologically, why wouldn't your body continue to crave that rush of like,
01:21:34
Speaker
yeah I forget which one we'll just say serotonin for the heck of it. Like that double hit a serotonin where you get to feel bad and feel good. Like the relief of that over and over again, which is how, like, like I said, the sin forgiveness cycle, I think is so applicable
Character Analysis and Plot Developments
01:21:52
Speaker
here. We're like, she gets to do her thing to have her cake and eat it too.
01:21:57
Speaker
yeah, And like, even if she asked for forgiveness or stuff, she would go back right back to doing whatever she was doing. Cause she just will never break that, that cycle of, I'm a touch Victoria.
01:22:14
Speaker
Yeah. Michael is so done. That's all right, Michael. We can move on. um We're still not done with the interlude yet, and been an hour and a half. No, we talk about Number Lad now. Number Lad? Really?
01:22:30
Speaker
Fuck off. The Number Lads? I love Number Lad. Just the one. He calls himself Number Lad. or But if he calls himself Number Lad, probably do. Number Lad, Number Four. Like, maybe, probably.
01:22:45
Speaker
But what if that's, like, the only thing that makes him unique? Is he's like, I'm Number Lad, they're like, fucking geek. No, it would be Number Lad, Number Lad, Number Lad, and then, like, Kevin. unique you would what's this like What's his actual name? one penguins ah He's got a dorky name, too. I don't remember it.
01:23:03
Speaker
it's not It's not as bad as Kevin, but it's... all it's pretty cool It's like Nigel or something like that. Nigel sounds about right. I'll find this for us. oh is Nigel, not as bad as Kevin. That's way worse.
01:23:15
Speaker
You know what? It it depends. thus Nigel is not as terms Kurt. That's fine. good.
01:23:27
Speaker
and number la but's hurt a hot name With a for sure. With a C, not so much. Not at all. Also, I would i would like to point out that that the title of this section is Number Lad Number Four, but he refers to himself and the other as the number boys. So technically, the only person calling them the number lads here is Weld himself. He's God himself. And if God has decreed it, thus shall they be.
01:23:58
Speaker
Number Lad, one, two, three, four. might argue you with God? Just the greatest fucking podcast host of all time. That's fucking who. Number Lad's a stupid fucking name. I love Number Lad.
01:24:11
Speaker
Yeah, I kind of like Number Lad. We have disagreed with Wild Bo before, though. Case in point, Marquis. Wild Bo's been wrong so like... god Yeah. Yeah.
01:24:24
Speaker
Look, the entire religion of Judaism was based on arguing with God. ok Yeah. And wrestling with God and the angels. Let's go. Israel. True. There you go.
01:24:36
Speaker
Anyways, um I think the only this thing here is that Number Lad finds, is a Victoria to be a problem, or Sveta? Who did he nail? like he fat like theveta Was Sveta? It was Sveta, yeah. Because he has these like latent feelings for Dr. Mother, it sounds like.
01:24:54
Speaker
And he's like, I know that she had something to do with killing Dr. Mother. And I'm going to keep an eye on her because of that. Which I thought was funny. They've been getting dreams about Dr. Mother. Hmm.
01:25:05
Speaker
m Dr. Mother Dreams. eared so Weird. yeah Nobody likes Mommy Dreams. For not-cape Dr. Mother Dreams.
01:25:20
Speaker
or not cap dr mother left her mark on the world. Oh, yeah. Holy shit. Truett pointed out the list. You have Number Lad, Number Boyo, Number Youth, Number Junior, Number Youngster, and Number Brat.
01:25:38
Speaker
Together they are the Number Boys. Amazing. Tell me they wouldn't sing in like perfect harmony.
01:25:48
Speaker
ah they They would be the most in sync. Yeah. aye I do need, i do need, oh yeah, a little, ah little ah like a pitch perfect battle. Pitch perfect number boys. yeah Fighting hard on the back streets, you might say.
01:26:10
Speaker
yeah yeah Alright, well with that being said, let's get into 15.1. He's a prize! You just read through Yeah, yeah, yeah. Honestly. I think it's like What, 1 then 15.25? Yeah, honestly, it's all fighting and there's a couple a couple highlights to hit here. There's the warehouse and everything else is fighting. We're saying that as a joke, but I am genuinely feeling like we just read these five together and then we try to hit the highlights as best as we can.
01:26:54
Speaker
Two things that aren't fighting. Yeah, that's true. there if Yeah, there's some... let Let's just run through it, 15.1 through 15.5. it, go The attack on Teacher is planned and executed.
01:27:07
Speaker
Victoria's group works with Love Lost, Colt, Fume Hood, and others. They fight a few mooks and find a room of brainwashed people. Breakthrough and friends address the brainwashed room and fight a couple of capes.
01:27:18
Speaker
Vicky joins the defensive base camp at the gallery and finds out her Aunt Sarah is alive. The fight continues, Vicky providing emotional support and gets an explanation for the presence of Botan, while Capricorn learns that Furcate is back as well.
01:27:35
Speaker
Furcate? Furcate. 15-4, the group fights a needle breaker, Victoria executes a brute, Kinsey gets a look at some hurtful information, and the group runs into Saint's modified dragon craft.
01:27:49
Speaker
The group fights the Dragon Slayers, supported by the speedrunners and teacher thralls. A good number on both sides die. Swansong kills Mags, one of the Dragon Slayers' mech pilots.
01:28:01
Speaker
I love that we named her in the summer, even though she wasn't named. also I was going to say, yeah, she was definitely not named in the arc. Yes, the speedrunners were there. That was there, too. I did catch that. Another...
01:28:12
Speaker
and like mentioned at the very end. No, they were named. They were named. oh they didn't they were named okay never messai over named So they they didn't come in until the very end, but right at the end, it doesn't revive Mags, but Victoria notices the damage to the craft begins yeah to be reversed. yes And she's like, speedrunners.
01:28:35
Speaker
Fuck them. me Oh, okay okay. I did not catch that. It's literally like one line she named them, but they are named in there. Yeah. yeah i say i thought if they were I thought it was at the very end. It's it's basically the very end.
01:28:51
Speaker
Yeah, because she notices it's right after Swan Song kills. um Fran, I know she was named in the St. Interlude. I'm saying that like she wasn't named in this chapter. like We blew apart this. We didn't know anything. The summary we just read was like, oh, it was Mags, and we were like, oh!
01:29:08
Speaker
Yeah, yeah, yeah. yeah and You gotta stay on top of that. That's really... well To be fair, there's so much that happens, I'm like, maybe it did name it was Mags. Maybe from some very specific detail, a true Wild Bow fan would catch it was Mags. Right, it's not really. like yeah To be fair, I'm pretty sure it's also Saint's only female friend, so we could have assumed, I guess.
01:29:31
Speaker
Basically. If we've learned anything. Way way to go, Wild Bow. And measure the not skull shape that was left. The only way we're able to dissect this is as a group. So it's, you know, we've learned that we need to work together to figure out what actually happened. Between the five of us, we catch every detail. And chat. Well, between the five of us, we make one average worm reader. And then chat tells us what actually happened.
01:29:57
Speaker
I was about to say, chat is always like a million times smarter than us. We're like, what? That was this? If I catch every detail, miss the big things. Yeah. Miss everything. Maybe you shouldn't have put them in the middle of a boring thing. Yeah.
01:30:14
Speaker
Small bits I love. i absolutely am here for the Love Lost and Cold Redemption arc. like gas so kind of yeah I'm kind of here for it with the whole like Love Lost realizing at the end, like why do I hate this kid so much?
01:30:31
Speaker
freak it's cradle he's been influencing me this whole time and that like obviously she doesn't love rain yeah but she gets like this is bigger than than my dispute with rain and even maybe hinting at the fact that she's under not understanding you know why rain did what he did obviously but to the kind of you know like wow i can't believe like i can't believe i let cradle influence me i'm gonna think more clearly and do what's right ah rather than just do what he wanted me to.
01:31:05
Speaker
So we we love that for Love, Lost, and Colt. Happy to see them back and on the right side of things. um We've also got the ah the Malfunctions. What are those kids' names? Major Malfunctions. We've got your mouth we got two of the three. perioded yeah ah gosh I was so afraid that we had lost withdrawal.
01:31:26
Speaker
withdrawal That we'd lost withdrawal during the March incident. With... Fume Hood is their mentor. I like that. yeah I think they're a good match. ah good Good little mix there with Fume Hood. Because they're so pure.
01:31:40
Speaker
Like, what is she gonna... Like, they're so pure and she can't, like, bitch at them. Because, like, even she is like, God damn it, they're such nice kids. Yeah.
01:31:55
Speaker
They're so naive. I can't be mad at them. yeah Yeah. I do appreciate, too, how quickly the scale is scaled up in this, right? We talk about, like, oh, this is not just a small base. We're dealing with a city of people because we've got this room full of... yeah brainwashed people and the person they talk to like the overseer for that room is like no no you don't understand there's like thousands of these rooms maybe not thousands but there's a lot of these rooms filled with hundreds of people some of them are capes some of them and they have like code activation words that teacher has put into them which is terrifying and uh love lost has a great moment where she actually interrupts that like activation signal allowing them to only activate like two instead of you know more um
01:32:43
Speaker
Yeah. i do I do appreciate that scale-up. I like Bulk as well. Rest in peace. Gone too soon. Goddamn. Goddamn.
01:32:55
Speaker
But I love... i really liked his power, man. His is probably my favorite new power because there aren't that many introduced, but the whole... like Like a boomerang ball, basically. That's just this huge metal ball just smashing through things, and he can fly, and you know, it's he's got the formation down with his team. It's great.
01:33:15
Speaker
It's fantastic. Yeah, that was that was pretty cool. Yeah. I'll save my favorite power for the end. It was a very minor power. Yeah, yeah, yeah. um had it How about Aunt Sarah being alive, eh? Oh my gosh, let's talk about Aunt Sarah.
01:33:30
Speaker
that was a cliffhanger ending. i will I feel okay, so I have a lot of, I have some mixed emotions with the whole using Valkyrie's power and have them have their own bodies now. It feels a bit, gosh, what's the phrase? Jacob, help me out.
01:33:51
Speaker
When it's like, you're pulling a God card. It's like Deus Ex Machina. Yes, thank you. dais they Say it again so I know how to say it right. Deus Ex Deus Ex Machina. Okay. It feels like that. Okay, great.
01:34:07
Speaker
She's so helpful here. Actually, incredibly helpful. It's a bummer that she's dead. Oh, wait, no, actually, no. we've We've got some kinks to work out. She's not quite all there.
01:34:17
Speaker
But boy, is she helpful in a fight. like It feels a little...
01:34:26
Speaker
It feels... I feel a little weird about it. Especially that like Saint has been something we've been building up to. Even though I hate that. But like, okay, fine. We're up to it now. We've got a million of these... These, you know, guys that he's got the Horde. And you're like, okay, cool, great, fun, fantastic. but Well, I guess we need more capes. Oh, good thing Valkyrie has like a million that she can pull from.
01:34:51
Speaker
It just feels... It feels a little like, uh, okay. Yeah. because I feel like, um, Wildbow may have had... i feel like he may have had a ah very rough draft of Ward at some point, obviously.
01:35:08
Speaker
um And then probably abandoned a lot of it as he was writing, as we all tend to do. And again, it's crazy that we're basically reading this guy's first draft of these stories. Wild to me.
01:35:18
Speaker
um They're just that good. But like... Because Worm ends, we get that interlude with Valkyrie, and it's a really cool interlude, and you sort of get... this you get the little bit of the shift that she's having ah and kind of a little bit of redemption that's starting there and then her interlude kind of towards the beginning of Ward we get her whole thing in the backstory like there's a lot that's building up there because I agree I think if we had spent more time with her and we had she was maybe more of ah of a larger supporting character throughout the story so far i think it would be a lot more impactful when we get to their moments here um Because again, i think it's I think it's a really interesting way of a way to take her power, but I agree that it's ah it feels unearned at this point in the story.
01:36:06
Speaker
And I wish we had a bit more build-up to where it felt a little more earned. Yeah. yeah
Gold Morning and Narrative Speculation
01:36:14
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. I mean, i think I think it would feel a little bit more deus ex machina if we hadn't seen it foreshadowed in Valkyrie's arc.
01:36:24
Speaker
or interlude. Yeah, that's We did see the piece of it where she was, um, she was considering how to do that. She was noticing some of them had more autonomy, um, than others and sort of the more they were developed, the more, it's, it,
01:36:42
Speaker
I don't know. It's it's interesting. um I don't know if I like it or not. Kind of like Fran is commenting. um He's doing something interesting as a deconstruction of superhero stories and their trope of reviving everyone over and over again.
01:36:55
Speaker
um You know, like how many times has Superman died and come back to life now kind of thing, which I get. yeah Exactly. But yeah, I don't know. It's it's interesting. i I'm interested, I guess, to see where it goes and I'm willing to run with it for now.
01:37:10
Speaker
As this idea of, ooh, interesting. And what it implies to me, at least possibly, is that Bonesaw is also still okay. and Because i believe i believe her idea was like closely tied to Bonesaw being able to create bodies for the shards. um Because of her her deeper work with the Polenta Corona Bombastic. Yeah, yeah, that part. i like her on but yeah And yeah, again, the coronavirus of the brain. yes The corona. is lord meals Cornmeal beer of the brain. Yeah,
01:37:48
Speaker
yeah i yeah I wish there were bigger players. I agree. I think there's some really interesting stuff going on. And we already liked them from Wyrm. I wish we had more. it It is nice to have some people back and the potential to to be able to bring back some beloved characters that we've lost. Like Saint.
01:38:05
Speaker
yeah Yeah. What? No. No. Yeah, beloved characters. Jacob loves Saint. I do. He's my favorite. My boy. We've always known. i I will say something...
01:38:22
Speaker
um That really got me. Because like I said before, I was kind of through these all these chapters just kind of hanging on the edge of my seat waiting to see who was going to die. Like, we can't go into a fight like this without losing at least somebody. And statistically, we got really lucky for a really long time with the Undersiders until we, you know, then did lose people. But like here in that same way, like were.
01:38:46
Speaker
we're The whole team is intact thus far. And even the team that we've come into the building with is intact thus far. ah And so like I just kind of waiting this whole time ah and the the the comment that Victoria made now this got me I was like crying about it to Alan really got me but the she she when she's talking about the the funeral and like well we mourned you like I was I was there i was at your funeral
01:39:20
Speaker
after gold morning, like after you died. And like, she's like having this thought in her head of like, we didn't even get to mourn you because there were so many people that, mm-hmm. needed to grieve. And there were so many funerals after gold morning that like, we didn't get to like sit with that grief because there was another funeral right behind it. And like losing her aunt, she's kind of like reminiscing. She's thinking about It's like this so weird to like have you right here.
01:39:45
Speaker
And it hit me. And I was like, and that every time there's a mention of gold morning, I realized I have this very like emotional a gut body reaction to that. And the, uh,
01:39:59
Speaker
Maybe it's different. I'm sure it is for other people. But, like, I wasn't in the U.S. when 9-11 happened. I saw it on TV. but Like, that weird, like, we lost people. It was an attack on us. Like, it feels very personal body reaction thing.
01:40:17
Speaker
I feel the same way about Golden Morning. Like, there's a weird body reaction of, like, we lost people. Obviously, Golden Morning is yeah is fictional. and Obviously.
01:40:29
Speaker
Obviously a drastic difference in those things, but I have a similar reaction to those two moments of like, when I, when we're talking about Gold Mourning in Ward of like, this, just the banding of people coming together and the loss of life and like,
01:40:48
Speaker
just this overwhelming sadness and grief that like just guts me every single time. And it's like, i mean, it's such a testament to wild bow. We've said this before. We'll keep saying it, but like,
01:41:01
Speaker
you feel so connected to these characters that I can have a very similar emotional reaction to Gold Morning, a fictional event that I do when thinking about 9-11 and like talking about 9-11, like being at the 9-11 museum in New York City, like that gut instinct still punches just as hard. And one is clearly fictional. And like, and so every time we, we talk about Gold Morning, about losing people, we're getting into a situation like this where we're losing people left and right.
01:41:30
Speaker
It's, man, it puts me in a space that I just don't know what to do with. Like, really kills me, man. I'm like, I'm so afraid. for the And the fact that this arc is called dying? oh no. I'm not well.
01:41:47
Speaker
Yeah, yeah. oh Yeah, there are there were a lot of tense moments in this one with... with With the fight scenes, you know, those moments of like, oh, so-and-so is in trouble. Oh, so-and-so is in trouble. And Victoria is just flying back and forth trying to save people.
01:42:03
Speaker
Succeeding most of the time. um Yeah. But yeah. ah Bernard asked if we can guess which other characters are brought back. I'm going to i'm going to put a twist on the question because I think it's interesting.
01:42:14
Speaker
So one character you think will be brought back for sure One character you want to be brought back, even if you think they won't be. And one character that if they were brought back would actually ruin things for you. Great question. So like for me, for me, the one I think will be brought back is Clockblocker. We've already kind of seen him and I think he'll get a body back again. I see that happening.
01:42:39
Speaker
The one i I want to be brought back is... um I want Gru to be brought back just because I think that would be interesting.
01:42:49
Speaker
oh And the one that would ruin it for me because it wouldn't make sense would be if Coyle was brought back. i I would love to have Coyle back, but it would just be like, no, don't That's like, it's you know, it's like, no, don't. He's dead. Don't bring him back. Don't bring him back.
01:43:06
Speaker
My want and ruin are the same person. Which is, of course, Trickster. which is of course ah trickster um and oh my god I need him back and it would also ruin the whole recording.
01:43:20
Speaker
Yeah, which is possible. He was there at Golden Mornin' He died in Golden Mornin'. He could be. oh Fed him to a wood chipper.
01:43:31
Speaker
Rightfully so. yeah a late Oh, that's a tough one. i Yeah, no, Clockblocker for sure. That's just lovely, and I want that for myself and for the world. um I just love him so much.
01:43:47
Speaker
It's so funny. um That's such a good question. I don't i don't want Garou to come back. I totally contradict you, Nick. No, that's fine. I agree with that. Talking about someone who would come back and then just fuck shit up.
01:44:07
Speaker
um Actually, you know what I thought of a different one. I don't really want Gru to come back. He's just the first one I can think of. I want Kidwin to come back. Oh, Kidwin!
01:44:19
Speaker
Mash. e goneng yeah not yeah He Not that I expect him to or would be disappointed if he doesn't, but I'd be like, I wouldn't mind seeing him again. He'd be cool. Yeah.
01:44:30
Speaker
What about Eidolon? He's still out there. I was thinking Alexandria. I was actually about to say Alexandria. high Double dead body? That would be really weird. It's still Pretender as Alexandria, but it's Pretenders. Okay, Fran bra but wanted to point out that while it is a little confusing, Quo did die on a beach, not in the birdcage.
01:44:53
Speaker
Yes. we go we're just This is all hypothetical at this point. yeah Kid loss. Well see, Coil coming back would be the the absolute like Star Wars Episode IX. Somehow, Coil returned. Exactly. Valkyrie has to basically be there when they die, or very shortly after. well yeah.
01:45:16
Speaker
So I do like the idea of getting a flashback, maybe in the mood. That's just Valkyrie just like quietly following all the major events around. like quite Like we just sleep like, it's one of those, like she was there the whole time.
01:45:28
Speaker
a little retcon moment. You know, like five years later. but yeah like She's like in the background as Coil dies. Yeah. They've like photoshopped her into the crowd. The scene that they filmed from right movie one. Exactly. ah From season one. Gosh, that's funny.
01:45:44
Speaker
so Is everyone's prediction that it's going to be Clock Clocker? I think it's a pretty safe. Clock Clocker, yeah. We've already seen it. um Fran pointed out Bakuda as well could be interesting, and she did die in the prison.
01:45:58
Speaker
It's true. It's hard to remember who we lost at the end there as opposed to at different times. Yeah. Yeah. yeah Could she bring back an Endbringer? Are those technically not Char? No, I don't think so. You have to bring back Eidolon, and then somehow have Eidolon's subconscious creating cards.
01:46:20
Speaker
Which, i mean, half-alive subconscious Eidolon would create some pretty cards. That could be sorts problematic for us all. That could be a real bad time. Yeah.
01:46:34
Speaker
Fran says she was coil sniper the whole time. Yes, she was, baby. Oh, okay, okay. You would ruin it for me if they brought back March.
01:46:52
Speaker
Oh, yeah. I really do hate that. Oh, yeah yeah. Well, fortunately, Valkyrie wasn't there when she died, as far as as far as we know. yeah You know what? And we can hold on to that. I mean, Vista can survive. and like Oh, I don't want to talk about it. It was weird. like We can just pretend that that whole saga didn't happen.
01:47:11
Speaker
It was a dream. It was a dream. i don't even wear pajamas. yeah but fine. Anyone reference? No, that's fine. no but it was hilarious either way.
01:47:23
Speaker
i don't even wear pajamas. Normally I sleep naked, but naked. Hey, Catherine. Never what's far too much movie It's the Santa Claus.
01:47:37
Speaker
Never heard of The Santa Claus? Shut the fuck up. It's the Christmas movie we watch every year. You know, we celebrated so. I kill you. Okay, moving on. Oh my know exactly what you're talking about now. It's a great scene. Thank you. I've seen in the... I know the movie. It a dream.
01:47:57
Speaker
Never. Never seen it, unfortunately. You've never seen it? What? No. Oh, the first one's such a classic. Okay, we're watching that this year. that The second one is also adorable. A little more cheesy. yeah Don't like the reindeer chat. But whatever. The third one...
01:48:16
Speaker
And we don't even talk about the TV show. Yeah. yo This one's a classic, though. That's a great one to watch with your kids. Oh, my God. ah Alan, shut the fuck up. That is one of my favorite Christmas movies of all time. We're going to move on now. Alan ruins my childhood again. Something about Tim Allen. Once again, Allen's, you know, what are you going to do with them? Allen's are tough.
01:48:41
Speaker
They're rough. They're real rough. i um big Any other highlights in the in these fights here? well We talked a little bit, touched on the bringing everyone back trope that, you know, like DC and Marvel both have done a billion times. Naruto does, you know, at some point in time.
01:49:00
Speaker
Every anime has done at least once. Supernatural does at least. If they go on long enough, yeah, Supernatural. Let's see, we have the obligatory goddammit saint.
01:49:11
Speaker
Oh, saint. ah saint um It is like a trope, but it's a deconstruction of the trope, I feel. Yeah, yeah. you know and And I feel like we're too, like we've talked about it, we're too early on to see yeah if this is going to pan out and...
01:49:32
Speaker
Exactly. um I do appreciate the design of the Simurg-like angel ah saint that we have with the giant halo ring that hovers behind it.
01:49:45
Speaker
Yeah, yeah, yeah. um and A very anime-ass trope, to be certain, but really cool. It was very cool.
01:49:58
Speaker
Yeah, I like the idea of... ah of dragons I mean, I love dragons mechs already. they're They're just very, very cool. And I like the idea of them being co-opted. Yeah. yeah I love the, like, they' she's describing them, she's like, they're the dragon mechs, except they're not dragons anymore.
01:50:18
Speaker
They're warriors. They're angels. And I'm like, I'm insane! great I love that. That was that was actually, like, fuck's sake, but that was fantastic. Like, the repurposed dragon mechs as, you know, fucking angels angel mechs now. Like, ah, yeah, that's good. That's good. ah that is Yeah, that it's it is it's one of those things that in any other context it would read so cheesy.
01:50:47
Speaker
But it feels right. It's a good kind of cheese. I think it's the good kind of cheese. You know, Saint and the Dragon Slayers, like Saint George and the Dragon, you know, that classic trope. So good. Dragons into angels because dragons are difficult for devils. It's like, yeah.
01:51:03
Speaker
Oh, yeah. It's crispy. I love it. yeah And then the fact that they are such a potent mech squad, like any other context, this trio would be great leaders of like a mech anime.
01:51:21
Speaker
Oh yeah. name Angels, you know, like, Oh, what a you got the great team name. You've got the defensive, the offensive, and then the like group, like the group breaker one. Um,
01:51:32
Speaker
Yeah, yeah, yeah. um Cool. Lots of cool stuff there. um Before that, I also did like that the needle breaker that... Yes. That's a wild power. That is... Yeah. i would love go How do you get that power, right? like Because I feel like... You walk through a Walmart parking lot barefoot in Columbia, South Carolina. That's what you Yeah, for real. But like...
01:52:02
Speaker
every There are so many powers that feel like extensions of natural things, right? When it comes to breakers. like Nursery is the, like oh, it turns stuff into a womb. Gross. Babies. Ugh.
01:52:14
Speaker
Who wants those? um ah You've got like Vista stretches things. um Burnscar has like fire powers, can make environments fiery and jump through fire.
01:52:27
Speaker
This is the first, not maybe not the first one, maybe I'm misremembering, but it feels like this is the first one where it's like, no, she's creating a an artificial landscape, right? Like, not something based in nature. She's literally creating syringes that pop out of the ground and inject you with diseases. Like...
01:52:46
Speaker
like I mean, the cool power, but I'm just like, i don't feel like we've seen anything like it before. Just the saw power. Yes. The disease is natural, sort of, nature.
01:52:57
Speaker
Well, the diseases are, but the syringes is what, is yeah my sticking point, right? It's not like, but it's not like, oh, their, their needle, their syringe, like, ah, They're syringe-like needles. It's like, no, they're literally syringes. no i think that's yeah that's That's what the mental sticking point is for me.
01:53:16
Speaker
Yeah. is this like But even like, yeah, even like Labyrinth, though, is like just twisting environments and mixing together. But it's a lot of like, it's like architecture, though. It's like architecture, yeah.
01:53:28
Speaker
Which is man-made, I guess, yeah. Yeah. I get what you mean, though. Like, it does feel very specific. Yeah, it'd be like, it you know, it'd be like if somebody got the power of like, like their arm became a chainsaw and they were revving up their chainsaw arm.
01:53:44
Speaker
Like literally they had to put gas into their chainsaw arm and rev up their chainsaw arm. Yeah. You know, it'd be like, like, okay, cool. But like weird. How do you, how does your body turn into a chainsaw? Literally.
01:53:55
Speaker
There's an anime for this, Nick. and don't know you've seen it. I've heard, I've heard of chainsaw man. You're not going to believe this. It's the same chainsaw arm man that has to put gas into his arm. And you're like, what the heck, bro?
01:54:12
Speaker
yeah And that's still not the longest anime title you've heard of. It feels like ah yeah the title's still going right now. This is also the title. It feels like an interdimensional cable spin-off where it's Chainsaw Arm Man, but it's in the middle of an oil crisis, so there's no gas anywhere. And the whole show is just him trying to wait in line at a gas station just to fill up his chainsaw arm. I love it. Gas is $5 a gallon? Yeah. Oh. It's still going right now. We're still in the title. We're still in the title.
01:54:44
Speaker
Yeah. That's great. I don't know. It's it's a... it's It's just a weird power. It's one of those where like... yeah I think part of it too is it's just the contrast to Withdrawal who is a Tinker, if I recall correctly.
01:54:57
Speaker
yeah yeah So it feels right for him to have built syringes. um yeah yeah Maybe there's a medical syringe universe he's tapping into it. and i don't know, man. it's yeah I think it's closer to the scapegoat thing where these are all portals to needles across all possible universes. Oh my god.
01:55:20
Speaker
It taps into every sharps disposal unit in the world. yeah it's It's a quantum needling effect, if you will. um Also, Fran wanted to point out when Simmerg digged the tech halo originally, she was aping off of Kid Wynn.
01:55:35
Speaker
So his legacy lives on. Yay! Rest in peace, King. J-Man pointed out, I love the little detail of Victoria being jealous. Capricorn's interaction with Furcate versus the condition of Lady Photon.
01:55:51
Speaker
Yeah, that's interesting. Yeah. um Importantly as well, I feel like we finally, finally, Victoria gets to kill somebody, which has been a moment I've been waiting for, just in terms of like, look, Victoria, at some point people got to die. Like you can't arrest everybody in the universe.
01:56:10
Speaker
um And so far it has been, you know, Glory Girl tries to arrest the world is what it feels like. Basically. um But finally, they're like, everybody gives her the head the not the nod of like, I think we gotta kill this guy.
01:56:27
Speaker
it, man. And she smashes his head like a watermelon. With foot. With her foot, not a hand, because it's not as personal as a hand, which i i do appreciate. there's There's a certain level of like, yeah, I don't... I'm not gonna do this with my hands.
01:56:42
Speaker
And then... taking the cue from her love lost is like, ah, nice. And then rips the arms off of the breaker.
01:56:53
Speaker
oh oh okay and rain is like love lost why and she just gives him a look and he's like i'm not gonna you know not gonna say i'm not gonna say it's it's oh yeah oh yeah i do love this like this little weird we have these like little downtime moments in between sections like when we're in the hallway you know, before with the power that's like rushing at them. And then you have this like tiny little break. And then we're in the room with all the people. and then we have this like little tiny break. and then we're in the giant room with the pillar. And then like we go through the port and we have this like tiny little break. And now we're in the needles. And now we have our tiny little break before we go in with the mechs. And i I like this little downtime because you see kind of how people are reacting to the situation, how they're like all of the heartbroken kids are all joking and laughing. And, and you know, I think this is where somewhere around here is where Imp has the whole thing of like, oh, yeah, and you know, what I supposed to do? Leave you there to watch cartoons? Like, of course, I had to take you guys, you little hellions in.
01:57:59
Speaker
um But like this little bit of downtime kind of in between things, I really like it breaks up some of the monotony for me in terms of the the action. I didn't feel like the action was too bad until we got to the angel max.
01:58:16
Speaker
Then I was like, and you're losing me. I don't know. Yeah. And that's really where it got to be too much. i agree. I think it's because the way like if Victoria is actively fighting in something,
01:58:29
Speaker
her motions and the things that she does are in relation to, like, when she's flying in formation, it's it's a call and response with the formation of the team that you're in, of, like, understanding, like, hey, I'm gonna do this, and they're like, hard, like, do it, you know, kind of a thing. And and then when you get into the mech fight, it's very much kind of like a free-for-all, and you have these, like, long points, you have these long points where she's just describing the action, and it feels like she's almost stopped, like,
01:58:58
Speaker
And is like watching things happen. then this person did this and then this person did this. And then the mech reacted like this. And it in reality, it's probably all in reality. ah should um um It's probably a lot more like how D&D runs of like, well, okay, we just spent an hour doing one round of combat. But like in our reality, that all took five seconds. Like we all that all happened pretty quick.
01:59:22
Speaker
And yeah. In the same way, it's all happening at the same time. You have multiple mechs, you have a lot of people in the room. She's, you know, flying and reacting, and it takes time to fly from point A to point B, even if you're fast and you're her.
01:59:34
Speaker
um And so, like, it makes sense that she can describe what she's seeing in her vicinity. But ah this was where i was, like, doing the audit you know auditory version of skimming, basically. Yeah.
01:59:51
Speaker
ah started Started to lose me here.
01:59:55
Speaker
Oh! Samuel! Samuel? Daniel? Samuel. Samuel and Roman. Samuel. And his is really weird interrogation.
02:00:08
Speaker
Creepy interrogation. I
02:00:15
Speaker
i kind of am here for it.
02:00:20
Speaker
Yeah. Ashley's like, Vicky's like, interrogation doesn't work. And Ashley's like, yeah, it doesn't. And you're like, all right. And then Samuel's like,
02:00:32
Speaker
One moment. Bam! And the guy's like, and squad two is going to be over here. And a squad four silver alva beta is going to be over here. and and squad wolf howls to the moon is is coming up on the flank. and And please don't hit me anymore. Like, yeah, no, I'm here for it. And then, and then, and then, and then, and then teacher told me to go to Copperwhite.
02:01:01
Speaker
yeah yeah. That's what it is. Copperwhite. Anyways. Yeah. Yep. And who does Samuel have the rivalry with? Is that Juliette? So Roman and Juliet have the competition. of But he's like he's like, I also, I don't get to have any any and he points because my power is lethal. It's like, aw, buddy.
02:01:26
Speaker
Here, why don't you do some interrogation real quick? I'll hold him, you punch. like There you go. You got some of that frustration, man. Yeah.
02:01:36
Speaker
Yeah. Mm, mm. um Yeah, i I do generally in terms of this fight scene, one of the things I do appreciate is we do again get to see Victoria's tactical side where she's thinking through, okay past battle, this is something we faced before. There was a teleporter bringing people in that we didn't expect.
02:01:56
Speaker
I think that's happening again. She confirms it, takes him out. like That tactical side of her, the way she's thinking about the Dragoncraft and the Dragonslayers, and like, hey, I noticed their exhaust ports aren't that good, so if we fill them up with dust and crap, then eventually their you know their strengths will become their own downfall.
02:02:17
Speaker
ah so i i Although it was kind of hard to follow at times, all of the combat, visually spacing it out in my head. i have no idea where this is happening. Didn't realize there was a hangar big enough for these dragon craft.
02:02:30
Speaker
and But there's also catwalks up there for people to walk on. And rock barriers? at Anyways. It's big. It's a big room. my My assumption in terms of like placement is that Wild Bow's just going to put things where...
02:02:50
Speaker
where people can be, I guess, is the best way to put it. Kind of like how we talked about with March, how were like that whole scene takes place as she's like running up a skyscraper. It doesn't need to make sense. We just just look past it and we just move on.
02:03:04
Speaker
but Don't worry about where it is or what's happening. it's just that the you know yeah Just focus on the important things like people dying and people not dying. Exactly.
02:03:14
Speaker
I thought Ashley was dead, by the way. I thought that was the end of Ashley. Yeah, I thought that she was going to get it. That was scary. She gave the fucking shit out of me. Yeah, was pretty close. But no, she killed somebody.
02:03:26
Speaker
Some random dragon slayer. Who knows? I don't know.
02:03:33
Speaker
Wasn't saying it. That's all I care about. Wasn't saying it. That's true. I do feel pain to death coming. and ah but And it's going to be so so so pathetic, too.
02:03:44
Speaker
No, he's's he's going to trip and hit his head on a rock. Oh, no. What's going to happen? Yeah. um J-Man points out the scene too where Victoria had Tattletail Invade Lookout's privacy.
02:03:59
Speaker
Yes. um Yeah. That was a little moment where she's like, uh-oh, Kinsey's not okay. What happened? Yeah, that was exciting. Yeah, Kinsey has now basically seen that the rest of the Heartbreakers and Chicken Little kind of find her annoying.
02:04:18
Speaker
a it was inevitable, but bad timing. Bad timing. Yeah, I feel like we'll come back to that. oh yeah. there's Oh, yeah, I think so as well. It's it's tough because I think Tattletail... think Tattletail has...
02:04:34
Speaker
I think what she says is is true about the whole like, well, you know, like kids don't really know how to deal with what they're feeling. And like your emotions vary pretty wildly. and you're a kid, like you, you don't know how to regulate your emotions very well. And you're feeling a lot of things and you're, you're trying to be a team and get on each other's nerves. And like, well, how do you handle that? Like, well, don't really know how like this kind of like natural bullying ends up coming out. And it's like,
02:05:01
Speaker
That's not good for Kenzie because we already know like she doesn't read the social cues. That's not her. She doesn't get it. And like... Gosh. I feel really... I feel so bad for Kenzie. It's it's one of those things where like I see the joy of them when they're all together. And it's like...
02:05:19
Speaker
this, it makes me happy to see Kenzie surrounded by people who, like, they all work well together and they get stuff done, like, earlier when they're working on the tech and she's having them all do the same thing and then she's gonna, you know, tinker with the eye stuff later. It's like, i I want that for her, but also, you know this can't be good in the long term. And we're seeing things already, like,
02:05:41
Speaker
shit like they haven't even been been together let that long it's been like two days and already we have things breaking down and and I just it just hurts like I just want Kenzie to yeah I want Kenzie to have a normal life and a normal something something that's normal and it feels like the best normalcy we're gonna get for her is movie nights and popcorn and hot chocolate with Victoria and Ashley and that is so sad I
02:06:21
Speaker
i i still feel like we're we're heading towards well I don't know how else to say it except the devil man crybaby ending um for those of us who don't remember things ever Mind me again about the Devilman Crybaby ending.
02:06:43
Speaker
It's hard because it's one of those anime that like I don't know that I can recommend. Because it's it's it's kind of on that line of like, maybe you shouldn't watch this, but it's also really good.
02:06:55
Speaker
Basically, the world ends with everybody dead. Like everything's dead. It's kind of how it is. I feel this is the ending. I feel like we're running into. So when you say like, I hope Kinsey gets a normal life someday, but maybe she never will. I'm like, I don't know. I don't know if anybody's going to get normal. don't know if anybody's going to get a real normal life.
02:07:18
Speaker
ah You know, you know the build like ah the rocks and and rocks fall joke, you know, right? What you're describing, it's what's going to happen at the end here is everything seems like it's maybe returning to normal or whatever. And then a third entity, a badden or something else is going to fly by like this. Well, i don't know what happened here. Do this, do this over. Just wipe it out. It's just, yeah, the whole planet's dead.
02:07:43
Speaker
Control out to leave this planet. All right. Cool. Moving on. that Which planet is Taylor on? Yeah. Wait, what? She's on... Well, we don't know, right? I guess we don't know. It's just kind of an island.
02:07:56
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. She's safe, I guess. Her and Dani. They both are her and Dani. Yep. Most important people who really actually matter. Yeah, I... i it may like you If she comes back, yeah yeah you not that would be that that would be the potentially ruined ward would be like, Oh, Taylor's back. Oh, yeah um yeah. That would potentially that would actually ruin. war That was going to be my, my go-to, but I hate March more. So yeah, fair. fair
02:08:28
Speaker
I know it would, that would be where I'd be like, I would hate it, but I would also be like, Oh my God, Taylor's back. I got to keep reading. Taylor's back! a Taylor's back, but with no... Okay, hear me out. Taylor's back, but no powers.
02:08:39
Speaker
That's right. She doesn't have powers. Her powers are gone. She's still a smart cookie. what if She's still smart. She's just hanging with the precogs. Her and Dinah are hanging out.
02:08:53
Speaker
And Taylor is like behind the scenes... um running like she's just in front of 500 monitors now like she can't do it like she used to but she never really lost it you know course she could never lose her mojo Taylor and and and Victoria like tag teaming some battle tactics ah Oh my gosh.
02:09:15
Speaker
So cool. yeah i I'd love to see Taylor just as the man in the van. You know? yeah no at all What I'm imagining is is the the scene from the most recent Superman movie where Lex Luthor is controlling the yeah the bad Superman. is yeah But bad Superman's just Victoria. It's Victoria, exactly. Hey, what? Hey, what? Hey, what? exactly yeah good yeah yeah oh and wait wait wait wait wait did I hang on a second did I read too far yeah let me just make sure that I didn't read too far she's on earth is a left for those who are wondering she's on a left that's what chat's saying I think I read one too many chapters
02:10:03
Speaker
yeah I read one too many chapters. Never mind. all right last there was something that I was like, we need to talk about this. And i was like, wait a second. No, no, that didn't. Fran's saying that a lot of readers thought that Taylor was actually the base for this arc.
02:10:19
Speaker
Like a secret weapon from teacher. Secret teacher weapon? That's funny. What we think the real objective is? but buggged me objective is Oh, right, because he says... Yeah, because they're like... He's distracted. I was like, the like is yeah you know now that now they're distracted, we can go after the real yeah the real objective here.
02:10:45
Speaker
so yeah like I was like, what? What?
02:10:51
Speaker
Very interesting. No idea what that could be. ah My guess is the only thing I can think of that teacher doesn't have that he would want in some capacity is like control over the simmer or something like that, or, ah or a chronos Titan.
02:11:08
Speaker
So the only thing I can think of is like, they're going after so something that he has that can access or control them. So, yeah. Cause, cause his whole thing, even at the end of worm, when we saw him sort of gathering his, his group of villains, um, and basically saying like, I, I have a plan.
02:11:27
Speaker
um And i Basically, his it seems like his concept is... what happened with Sion is going to happen again, inevitably. Like, so long as powers exist in the world, this is going to happen again.
02:11:41
Speaker
He wanted to build something that would survive Sion second time, basically. um So my guess is that he's either, yeah, like you said, Jacob, he's either trying to get control of something super powerful, like the Simriff, or like the Chronos Titan, or something along those lines,
02:12:02
Speaker
Or he's trying to insulate himself and create sort of an insulated world that keeps him safe and keeps enough of society safe that then he can emerge as the new leader, basically.
02:12:19
Speaker
That makes sense. Yeah. So they're going after his is shield or bubble or whatever. Yeah, yeah his bubble. Yeah. and The other thing, although I think they implied at one point that he's trying to create more of the Chronos Titans.
02:12:39
Speaker
um So that that leans more to the control angle, I'd say, right? yeah um something Something fishy there. And there's always Sleeper. Yeah, was going to can't forget Sleeper. I think that the The problem that I have had with Saint up until this point, and still inevitably have, is we're we're we're only in Arc 15. We got a long way to go. So, like, Teacher can't be Endgame. Teacher can't be Big Boy Bad Problems.
02:13:09
Speaker
Like, we you where' we're we're we're at Arc 15. Like, we got so much more to do. And, like, we still have the Machine Army and probably other shit. And...
02:13:22
Speaker
Abaddon would be great. i would I'd love that. I think that would be really fun. But I don't know. I just don't...
02:13:31
Speaker
Having the scale of being here helps a lot in, like, actually creating, like, oh, shit, this is a problem. Cool. yeah I still... i don't find Teacher that impressive in terms of, like, villainous person.
02:13:47
Speaker
ah Even though clearly, like, he has all these thralls. I don't know. i
02:13:53
Speaker
Yeah. yeah Just a little under- Impressed me. Never impressed me. Which is, you know, classic teacher. On purpose, right? Probably. With the writing. Yeah.
02:14:05
Speaker
Please. Yeah, I'm excited for the second half of this arc. I... um Yeah. I'm very excited. i I like what we've got so far. We've had a lot we've had some fun twists and turns thus far. i think we've had some good conversations. We've had, you know...
02:14:24
Speaker
We've had Vicky killing somebody. Vic. um And I just... i'm i'm I'm ready. Let's go. I'm excited. Yeah, I agree.
02:14:40
Speaker
Yes, oh my gosh, Bernard. I don't know what I would do if I had to wait... like i I could, hypothetically, binge the rest of Ward. like I could start listening now, and by the time we come back and do it again, i could be finished with Ward if I wanted to.
02:14:58
Speaker
The idea of having to wait for each chapter to come out would drive me crazy. This is why yeah I often will not read a a book in a series that isn't a completed series.
02:15:13
Speaker
because I don't like waiting. I'm very impatient person. And if I like something and I want to just read it, I will. This takes a lot of strength. I want you all to know. You're so great. Thank you. I've joined... I've got to remember that.
02:15:28
Speaker
Very, very great. um What is the name of that series?
02:15:35
Speaker
I've joined a... Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. I've joined a ah ah group of people. um Patrick Rothfuss. ah He wrote a great book, The Name of the Wind.
02:15:48
Speaker
Yeah. and this sort a pretty book A pretty good sequel, The Wise Man's Fear. And the third book has no set release date. um Did you hear that recent thing from his editor?
02:16:04
Speaker
No, no, I haven't heard. Editor says she has not seen a single word. Not a single word. the third book. Oh, this r have mercy. It ain't coming for a while yet. Book two was written in 2011, so joined that group of people.
02:16:23
Speaker
Oh, my God. This is... Okay, when Alan read that those books, he was talking about them all the time, and I was like, oh, maybe I should, and then... and They're so good.
02:16:34
Speaker
They're very so good. It's the only audiobook that I have ever just like, I worked all day listening to it, and then i came home and I just left my earbuds in the rest of the day, like doing dishes.
02:16:50
Speaker
sure Like, I just could not get enough. Hannah, I will say you could read The Name of the Wind, and it's complete enough that I think it could be satisfying. As long as I don't read the sequel. Yeah.
02:17:02
Speaker
The sequel then makes you like, like the first one ends with like, oh, I'm curious what's happening, but this is a good story. um The sequel is where then it's like, oh, now I really need to know what happens. I feel like at least. That's all right. I've plenty of books.
02:17:16
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. No. Anyways. Yeah. i I can't imagine either the web serial format. I'm i'm not built for it, I would say. I'd rather just binge And yet, it's weird because I feel like with TV shows, I'm the opposite. like Sometimes with a TV show, I appreciate the weekly anticipation, right?
02:17:35
Speaker
yeah I don't know why, but it's... I hate and love it at the same time. i mean, TV shows have perfected the episodic release, and I feel like web serials still have a lot to perfect in that regard to yeah making that satisfying.
02:17:53
Speaker
And to be fair, I don't read a lot of web serials besides Worm and Wards, so I don't really know what what I would expect from a live, ongoing one. um But as Truett pointed out, as an as a a Song of Ice and Fire fan, I'm dying for the next book. i don't think it's going to happen, Truett. Never going to do. That man's going to die.
02:18:14
Speaker
I was like, so but Oh, Project Hail Mary's next on my list. Oh yeah, I do want to read that. Also, we have a bingo. A bingo!
02:18:24
Speaker
ah With Kahoot Hate, Lachlan or Rain Debate, Mecca Hype, and Alan Rance. um Very good. Classic. It's good one.
02:18:36
Speaker
Are we wrapping up? but Any other thoughts on these chapters? Um... Let me think about it because I had some other thoughts. on I'll tell you what we will be reading next week is arc 15.6 through 15.Z or Z for our listeners abroad.
02:18:57
Speaker
Is that just the rest of 15? That is the rest of 15. Okay. Perfect. Um...
02:19:07
Speaker
I'll do favorite cape power because I can't forget and I'll forget if i if we don't say it now. Favorite you favorite like cape power? hurri or ah harpoon Harpoon nips? Yes! Harpoon dog nips.
02:19:21
Speaker
Harpoon dog nips, absolutely. Favorite power. Grossest thing ever. Terrible. Just terrible. With bad luck. Listen, there's Pierce Nips and then there's that.
02:19:34
Speaker
I mean, it's already like winning the worst lottery ever to get powers in the first place. And then your power is Harpoon Nips. Harpoon Nips, get over here.
02:19:45
Speaker
yeah oh man. I told you that's not my name. what or what What did he name himself? He did have a name. she was like, what's your name?
02:19:56
Speaker
I'm trying to remember what he said. it was it's It has to do with the... It's like a grappling... um yeah Grapple hook? Yeah. Grapple shot?
02:20:10
Speaker
but The grappler. The grappler. I don't even remember. Not as cool as Katana.
02:20:20
Speaker
Also, Bernard, it's not next week. don't think. No. Two weeks. Two weeks. it's not Always two weeks. Need time to read. ah it's It's not even time to read. Let's not pretend. We all read on Sunday. always read it the day of. I'm always listening to it like all day on Monday. So I have it fresh and monogamous. It's just that we're so busy with everything else.
02:20:47
Speaker
Listen, i i my day job is about to get to the point where I'm not going to see a soul outside of this and like maybe D&D and maybe an occasional movie night. Like I will not see my friends until October because things get so busy in the summer for me. So like I love you guys. I can't do this every week. I will die.
02:21:13
Speaker
I could. Just want let y'all know. I could do it um No, ah my one thing that we we didn't get to talk about was that Katena is Juliet's?
02:21:27
Speaker
No, Chastity's. ah No, not it is Juliet. Juliet is Katena as her um cape name, and it's Latin for chain, which I guess she does like her little thing where she can freeze people, but only if she freezes.
02:21:46
Speaker
That's cool. now um Question from Fran. You keep talking that you're worried about somebody dying. Who's your prediction?
02:21:57
Speaker
Fran, no one's going to die. and Who's going to the cabin on the next episode of The Bachelor Ward Edition? Victoria. Victoria dies and the rest of the entire story is all of the ah all of Breakthrough. Getting revenge.
02:22:15
Speaker
Oh, did you say jacob but Victoria does. I don't know if it's ever been done before, but i do I've been sitting on a story since like middle school that involves a reluctant mentor bringing up the main character, like the point of view character, to the halfway point, and then the big bad kills the apprentice, and the mentor goes, well, gotta fuck shit up now.
02:22:43
Speaker
o And then you just follow the mentor tearing through everybody. Nice. I like that. i like that. Yeah. Like what if anyone saw Luke get cut down? Yeah. Yeah. i Yeah.
02:22:56
Speaker
Um, I think my prediction is it, it will be, uh, wow. I'm so tired. Her name left me. Ashley. Wow.
02:23:07
Speaker
Lord have mercy. my My prediction is Ashley. i feel like she's edged death enough that it's... God, she's so edgy. She's edgy right now. Exactly. She's been edging death for years.
02:23:20
Speaker
um And I think it'll be ah a beautiful... like Much like Regent, it'll be a beautiful sacrificial death on behalf of somebody else. It's Kenzie. She would die to send Kenzie.
02:23:31
Speaker
Yeah, exactly. exactly yeah I thought you were saying it's Kenzie. Kenzie's going to be the one who died. How? It's just Ashley and Kenzie doing the Black Widow Hawkeye endgame.
02:23:47
Speaker
Yes. i for who yes Except Valkyrie keeps trying to bring them back. They keep killing themselves. she brings them they both that's the thing she but they They both die. Valkyrie brings them back, but their dead selves still keep trying to die for the other.
02:24:02
Speaker
yeah Yeah. Hilarious. Just a death loop. Yeah. Yeah. I am going to have to agree with you. I think it's going to be Ashley. I ah don't want it to happen, but she's... I feel like she's gone through it, and if she did die, it would be kind of a... It would be a...
02:24:25
Speaker
Like, I think my two options are Ashley or Rain, because one, I'm not done i'm not done with with Capricorn. I love Capricorn. um i just I just want... i don't want anyone to die, but I don't feel like we're going to get out of this without losing somebody. i mean, rain's already been front-sound.
02:24:46
Speaker
that See, that's the thing. So, it's the whole, like, and and their retirement was in two weeks. ah Yeah. I think Ashley killing another person is, it takes a huge, is gonna take a massive emotional toll on her, and she's gonna get really sloppy, or she's gonna get slow, or something's gonna happen, and she's gonna...
02:25:06
Speaker
put herself in harm's way in old order to protect the team because she feels like she has to and and she's going to die. And I'm going to hate it and I'm going to really upset and it's going to suck because Kenzie really needs her support system right now and she's about to lose half of it.
02:25:24
Speaker
And i that makes me really upset at that prospect. And then with Rain, he just basically got friend-zoned Well, not in so many words, but it felt like he was getting friend zoned. And so it would make sense for him to, like, die.
02:25:39
Speaker
and then Aaron feels fucking guilty that she... But I didn't tell him that i i actually loved him before he died. And then she's going to carry that for a long time. And... Ah!
02:25:50
Speaker
Fran said that we literally have a backup, Ashley, if we could if we needed one. And to that I reply, we literally have a backup, Rainn.
02:26:00
Speaker
a backup rain? His name's Lachlan. Shut the up. Get out. like yeah Hear me out. You're in a fight. You can have a loser in a leather jacket with superpowers or you could have one good looking guy with a bad tattoo who, you know, is coordinated and can actually hit people.
02:26:25
Speaker
oh It reminds me of, um oh God, I'm trying to remember the after actor's name. um Who was it? The really... Did anyone ever see Beer Fest? Old den now. Like, one of those just dumb ah comedies from back in the early 2000s.
02:26:41
Speaker
One of the characters in it die. one of the main characters dies in the movie. And they're all, like, beat up and they don't know what to do And then the door the doorbell rings. And it's the same actor playing the twin brother of the guy.
02:26:55
Speaker
And he's like, listen, you guys didn't know about me. He never told you about me. here I am. And I just want to take his place. And like, you know, just to honor him, can you call me by his name? Oh, my And I'm like, get in here. And the movie continues. Oh, my God. That's amazing. That's fantastic. That's such an early 2000s thing. Oh, my That's so good.
02:27:17
Speaker
It's so good. Oh, my gosh. It's so incredible. I need to watch this now. ah ah That's funny. Dude.
02:27:29
Speaker
Bernard asks, aren't you an author by profession? I'm a lot of things by profession, Bernard. ah But my main profession is I'm a costume designer and I make my costumes.
02:27:41
Speaker
And some are the busiest time for me. she's a true She's a true Jacqueline of all trades, you might say. a Jacqueline of all trades. I prefer Jack. Thank you very much. jacque ah Jacques of vols for a jacque of all trades. all trades. Her business is always in the description of every episode. That's true. She a sponsor. Made Marianne, my costume business, is a sponsor of this podcast. um I pay absolutely no money to actually sponsor it. She actually pays me to not bring it up.
02:28:15
Speaker
Otherwise, I'd be doing ad reads for it all the time. ah Also, um Crystal is the backup for Victoria Fran. You are correct. That is what I was going to say as well. Yeah. um You know. hate it. Obviously, the brothers are their own backups.
02:28:33
Speaker
No! Oh, don't want to hear it. So that's built in I feel like you replace Kenzie with Chicken Little because he feels bad, but you just use his birds as like...
02:28:47
Speaker
ah somehow strap cameras to his birds, ah go pros. Um, you got, let's see, who do we have? Sveta? Uh, don't know.
02:29:00
Speaker
Grab weld. Well,
02:29:05
Speaker
there was the, uh, who's the, um, who's the other case 53 who had kind of a weird body? The Lacey one. Oh, you're right. Wait, no, not Matryoshka. I always get this confused.
02:29:20
Speaker
Chantilly. Chantilly. Chantilly, not Chantilly. Chantilly is probably a Pokemon version of... sha Yeah, Chantilly is the type of lace.
02:29:32
Speaker
and Chris was the backup. To be fair. Yeah, true. True. Yeah.
02:29:42
Speaker
Yeah.
02:29:46
Speaker
Egg is fed his back up. True. True. true ta egg with the ever I love egg. eggy Egg is Egg might die. You would even find a comparison.
02:29:58
Speaker
He's irreplaceable. Yeah.
02:30:04
Speaker
Also, for the naming convention, as ah you pointed out, it's dying, as in, like, dying light. The ARC pun, because all of them are light-related. Also, because I know you guys were all super locked in on this, um Harpoon guy does not have a name.
02:30:25
Speaker
Victoria mentions that she really needs a name for him, but just keeps calling him Harpoon dude. thought he named himself. ah He tells her. She's like, what is your name? And he's like, oh yeah, I'm so-and-so. He does tell her. thought it was Grappnel. Grappnel.
02:30:40
Speaker
Grappnel. Thank you. I knew it was stupid. Grappnel's not the worst. but I like Grappnel.
02:30:51
Speaker
Listen, the more caves we have, the more names we have, all the good names we're taking. Under his wiki appearance, while using his power... Grafinal produces six harpoons from his body.
02:31:04
Speaker
Two of these emerge from his nipples. Like, that's in his appearance description. work What a loser. Anyway... haven't but it's all One of my earbuds just died, man. yeah help Saying it's that 1030 time. We will go over one last thing, which is the ah the full list. We almost got all of them. We've got ah Jacob is a cinephile. Kahoot hate. Nick goes full. Parents less teacher. Teacher hate. Lachlan or rain debate. Mecca hype. Hannah cries. Argument on death. Alan rants. Cat on screen. Why do I have cat on screen twice? I don't know. Innuendo.
02:31:42
Speaker
Boring. Jacob's a saint. Stan. We were missing. Michael has to reel them in and milk. Dang. Also, as Truett pointed out, Grappnel is a Pokemon ass name.
02:31:57
Speaker
It is. it's It's like the second evolution yeah yeah well. and yeah it but I guess first stage evolution. It's not the basics. Okay, you're right. I did find where he where he called him Grappnel and I forgot he's got a great line there.
02:32:13
Speaker
Harpoon guy, your name? Grappnel. That works. We might need to go up. Can you give us your harpoons to hang on to? Can't leave them limp and dangling, if that's what you mean. it It's just a great line.
02:32:26
Speaker
okay and Anyway, I'm sorry. Limp and dangling. That's what he'll be remembered by. is Right on his tombstone. Limp and dangling. Yep.
02:32:40
Speaker
but as ah but like All right. Well, with that, we will see you on the 27th, the end of arc 15. I'm sure we'll have lots to discuss then. So don't forget to put your predictions on what the posts will be saying on that podcast in the ward spoilers chat. I need help. Help me, please. I put cat on screen twice because I blanked out in the middle of writing this.
02:33:10
Speaker
To be fair, there were two cats at one point in time. so There you go. yeah that's true One for each cat. One for each cat. and thank you so much to our lovely patrons who support us, who keep the sound and the servers running.
02:33:25
Speaker
um really appreciate that. Michael most of all appreciates that. um and we The rest of us are just reading and ah ah just happy to talk with y'all and hear from y'all. um Yes.
02:33:40
Speaker
ah Many hearts out and thanks to all of you. Thank you for those of you in live chat for always keeping us straight and sometimes gay um with the the facts and information.
02:33:52
Speaker
um yeah Really appreciate that. And let's say shoot. shoot Join the Patreon Please come on in Join the Patreon Why don't you just join the Patreon Come support us and join the Patreon Please help us and join the Patreon
02:34:23
Speaker
first time I joined the Patreon. It's the kind of day you don't forget. I used to take my
02:34:35
Speaker
life. Hit them with that suave of Mente Ganondorf. Fabulous. Alright guys, thanks so much. You're the best. Thanks for all the chatting and we will see you on the 27th end of the arc.
02:34:50
Speaker
Bye.
02:34:54
Speaker
Please come and join the Patreon. Why don't you just join the Patreon? Come support us and join the Patreon. Please help us and join the Patreon.
02:35:05
Speaker
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