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BBBC Reads Ward - Arc 16.1 - 16.7 - From Within
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This story isn’t intended for young or sensitive readers. Readers who are on the lookout for trigger warnings are advised to give Worm a pass. Complete list of potential triggers: here
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The Brockton Bay Book Club discusses J.C. McCrae's Ward live! The gang reads a portion of Ward and comes together to share our thoughts with each other and anyone who want's to participate.
This week we cover Arc 16.1 - 16.7 - From Within
Read along here
Play along with this week's BBBC BINGO while you listen!
Support us and connect with us @brocktonbaybc
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Transcript
Introduction and Setup
00:00:00
Speaker
Good evening, Mega
00:00:05
Speaker
but don't Don't do that to me. Don't do that to me.
00:00:10
Speaker
For those of you who are audio listeners, they are sock puppeting with their hands. Their best approximation of a voice. And it bothers me so much.
00:00:21
Speaker
On tonight's news... Mockuments all over the city propagated by metal bending ah Kaiser stand neck.
00:00:34
Speaker
oh They're probably metal made of metal. so Somehow. Yeah. Gosh, that threw me off. Threw me off so hard. And probably Michael was doing it too. And you're just right in my field of view. i can't believe you'd do this to me. You're the reason Hannah and I's cameras don't work.
Podcast Introduction and Hosts
00:00:56
Speaker
i know Welcome folks to Brockton Bay Book Club. I've got nothing else to give. Welcome. I'm your host, Alan. We are delayed. Joining me is Hannah, also not on a camera. Hello.
00:01:11
Speaker
Jacob, who is on a camera. Hello. Michael, who's on a camera. Hey, guys. And frozen. And Nick, who's also on a camera. I'm frozen. You know, sock puppet is a great name for a cape, actually.
00:01:25
Speaker
Hey, how about instead of sock puppet? Oh, Oh, no.
00:01:31
Speaker
I mean, I don't know what they would do, Hannah. Clearly your mind went somewhere as to what Sock Puppet would be doing. No, no, no. I'll tell you exactly where it went. I have a friend who is writing a Sock Puppet Shifter romance book out of just pure outrage and joy and doing it because she can, because she thinks it's hilarious.
00:01:52
Speaker
And it is actually hilarious. And it's... Yeah, so every time I think about sock puppets, I think about this weird sock puppet shifter romance that she made me read. There you go.
00:02:07
Speaker
There you go. Fantastic. We love it. Yeah, Mama Mathers is i'll go here just messing with things today. Go ahead, Hannah.
00:02:17
Speaker
Absolutely. yeah I was just going to say, i i would love to say now that just because my profile icon is of Bundy with a Coke can on her head, that does not count as cats on screen.
00:02:32
Speaker
Just so you know. Fair. I'm glad you it set out. Somebody's not going to get a bingo tonight because of that. So I just thought I'd say it now. Yeah. Normally that's a pretty free space, but i as far as I know, Michael owns a cat, but isn't usually in the room he's in. Oh!
00:02:48
Speaker
And Jacob and I do not own cats. so would be I don't know if it was last time that like he got up and left for a second.
00:02:59
Speaker
And then all of a sudden, the camera detected Sir Pounce really and zoomed in on him. it was like And then you came into frame like a second or two later. But like clearly like there was the all the darkness and then just the cat. Oh, that's hilarious. Like, oh, tracked him.
Listener Engagement
00:03:20
Speaker
Not this time. If you did want to play bingo with us or contribute to that, you could, of course, join our Patreon and be on our Discord, where we hang out sometimes and release exclusive of content. And yeah.
00:03:32
Speaker
yeah Bingo is in description if you want to play along. ah Feel free to let us know if you have a bingo. you're a patron, you can send it in and we can call off what you, you know, if you want and ah see what it is.
00:03:45
Speaker
um If you can see my tag on my Discord, apparently says Blueprints. That's because I just finished it and that's part of why we're rushed. So... ah You should all go play that. That's my one suggestion. It's fantastic. It's free on Game Pass.
00:04:01
Speaker
um As for tonight, we are reading Arc 16. First half, 0.1 through 0.7. Let's go with initial thoughts. Hannah, you have no camera. What did think?
Emotional Impact of Arc 16
00:04:19
Speaker
had a lot of feelings. I... i There were times where I had to um pause so I could cry profusely and sit on the floor. That happened.
00:04:30
Speaker
ah There were times where I got so mad, I paused and I had to walk away because I was so upset. So upset! And, yeah, overall, I think we had some some good emotional feelings after the past arc, and i enjoyed it.
00:04:48
Speaker
I feel good and sad, but good about it. Nice. ah Nick? Yeah. um Interesting first half. A lot of character good character moments.
00:05:02
Speaker
um we We keep hearing the impending threats out there. the looming machine army. The mysterious, the sleeper. And everybody's trying.
00:05:15
Speaker
I like this because now it's the uncomfortable tension of trying to avoid causing the end of the world. And I really like, there's something about this uncomfortable tension that's been built now that I really like, especially how it shows in the fight scene with Death Chester later.
00:05:36
Speaker
um Just the restraint, the feeling of, you know, standing on cracked ice ah is is very poignant throughout. And yeah, I really, really liked it.
00:05:47
Speaker
Overall, good first half.
00:05:52
Speaker
All right. And Jacob.
Critique of Story Pacing
00:05:55
Speaker
Yeah, i think I'm in agreement. I did. These are good chapters for sure. A lot of really good character moments. I think it's just, you know, it continues to be my overarching major issue with Ward is just is just pacing and when things are placed.
00:06:08
Speaker
I feel like some of these chapters or conversations would have should have happened a lot sooner in the story. But ah but I'm glad they happened. They're good. Yeah. Yeah, good to read. I'm curious i'm curious what everything's building to. I have lot of questions.
00:06:25
Speaker
ah we We have a little bit of the meta-knowledge of knowing that we are like in the back quarter of the story, which is weird to say. And so like we don't have the exact same perspective of someone reading through it live.
00:06:36
Speaker
um But because of that, I'm i'm finding myself going like... alright, what are we what's What's
Speculation on Story Direction
00:06:45
Speaker
the endgame here? What are we building to? Because it still feels like we don't really know, which is kind of a weird place to be this deep into a story.
00:06:53
Speaker
But as for the chapters themselves, yeah, I did i did like them a lot.
00:06:58
Speaker
Oh, there we go. oh There he is. am I streaming from my phone? ah That works. Yes, I am. hey if it works. have my phone... Connected up through a USB cable to my desktop.
00:07:13
Speaker
It is now operating as my webcam ah being held in place by duct tape on a very cheap ring light. ja its the Duct tape? Okay, here's the thing. The duct tape holds the ring light.
00:07:28
Speaker
The ring light barely holds the phone. He has the jankiest of setup. There is a cable in front of my face between me and the computer, but, you know, we can use more duct tape if we need to. that doesn't knock everything off.
00:07:40
Speaker
Honestly, it seems like it's a better camera than the original one. looks pretty good. Yeah. I know, right? Maybe I should start doing this. Not bad. yeah yeah yeah Truett asked, how are we going to know if Hannah cries? We need to see her emotional reaction for our entertainment.
00:07:59
Speaker
of You know, shaking head in a joke care ament wow That's a great question. Hannah did say she cried during the ah during your reading so i i will allow it yeah Um, I'm, I, here's the thing. Let
Character Reactions and Emotional Depth
00:08:16
Speaker
me tell you right now. The second i start talking about the thing that made me cry profusely, the, the things, uh, there's more than one that made me cry profusely. You'll know. I want my, I'm going to, you know, ah you don't have to see my face. there's I'm not going to be able to hide it. Cause this one really wrecked me up.
00:08:32
Speaker
So you'll know. It's going to hear, hear the quiet. yeah yeah I was going to say, Nick, can you give you can you give us just the a cue of what ah the crying would sound like? I know you have an exceptionally good cry. something the
00:08:49
Speaker
effect of like... That's it? It makes it all the better that we can actually see your face, and we wouldn't seeing my in this scenario. Exactly. Something to that effect, yeah.
00:09:01
Speaker
Up there, your your cry is definitely like one of the top three cries of all time. And it's right up there with baby's cry, which starts with the baby opening their mouth and starting at a a volume that only dogs can hear and then fading into your realm of hearing.
00:09:18
Speaker
Like Dan. Oh, yeah. Which is always fun. i know that one very well. Yeah. It's the the deep breath into the...
00:09:29
Speaker
a starving about yeah Yeah, it starts up here. it's um or You're like, is it making a sound? And then it comes into your hearing volume. You're like, oh, that's a sound.
00:09:45
Speaker
That's a baby. That was a Nazgul. all right well Actually, you can see them charging it up like they're charging up a laser. Yep, that is exactly
00:09:58
Speaker
I think my wife is texting me to see if I'm okay. She just she just wrote the words honey please ah ah
00:10:14
Speaker
Also, this is weird. Y'all get to see me with glasses because the reflection, i'm not staring directly in like this, getting that glare. yes I get to wear my glasses for once while doing the podcast and not have it be super bad for the patrons.
00:10:29
Speaker
Hey, you look so cute. Adorable. Oh, yeah. oh
00:10:41
Speaker
do the ah You know the guy on Instagram who tries food. I can't remember his name right now, but he always wipes off with glasses and throws them after he he tries food. What is his name? but Hold on, I was going to see if I can get the perfect food of Senpai from Oran's house. Where you're like here, yeah and then up into this. Pretty close.
00:11:02
Speaker
ah like yeah they pretty close Alright, well, did we get everybody's previews while I was vamping for camera? Except you. Who are you? I really like this arc.
00:11:20
Speaker
It's got all the stuff I want. It's got the mundane things, the beginning. It's got the it's got some good combat. It's got one of my favorite power interactions. um Yeah, yeah. I think it's really good. Yeah.
00:11:34
Speaker
it's one of those like hidden gems that I've kind of been waiting for as, um, yeah. Yeah. It's just really, it's not, there's not, I don't know ah how ah how to put it. It's, um, it's not one of the most intense chapters of all time. Whoop.
00:11:53
Speaker
There goes the camera. I was so close. It was pretty good. but Um, no that being said, let's get into it. Nick, Kick us off from within. you You figure out your things and i I'll figure get into arc 16.1.
00:12:10
Speaker
Arc 16, from within. 16.1. Victoria gets sick and takes in Kinsey for a few days. The two of them fly to visit Byron. Kinsey finishes the Capra camera, befriends Defiant, and worries about using it when the city is so close to breaking.
00:12:29
Speaker
Thinks about getting into the shard dimension. yeah
00:12:37
Speaker
well well well um nope your phone is locked alan no no no i says i got this i didnt know yeah um i feel like victoria getting sick is one of the more reasonable and realistic things has happened because it's like If you've ever had those weeks where you just haven't slept, you've been working super hard. It's like, you know, finals week in college.
00:13:01
Speaker
And then your first week back home from summer, you're just sick as a dog because you were so stressed for a week straight and your body's just shutting down. Damn, Hannah knows nothing about that.
00:13:15
Speaker
You know what that's like, right, Hannah? You ever felt that way back in college and not right now? Oh, yeah, not right now. Not right now at all. Hannah, I just want to ask a quick question. Geographically, in your room, where are you right now?
00:13:30
Speaker
I'm sitting right in front of my laptop. It is on a chair, though? Okay. I thought about laying on the floor. i I almost did. The Lilo and Stitch where she's just on the floor with with thea and recorder or the Yes, i I am at my desk. I am i am you slumped over in my chair at the moment, but I am here. content we of that We're happy to have you here
00:14:01
Speaker
Doing a lot of work for her business. That is ah Currently, crunch time is under the weather as well. It's crunch time because she's going to be selling at a Ren Faire. I'm going to be vending at a Ren Faire and it's... i I have so much... I've been... i don't... My brain has nothing else left inside of it.
00:14:24
Speaker
ah And I'm very tired. Yes. And who else is very tired is Victoria as we were talking. or girls Yes, yes, yes. yeah She's done nothing because it's been, what, a week now since the beginning of the story?
00:14:38
Speaker
yeah Two days? yeah It's the second day. Yeah, exactly. Full 48 hours.
00:14:48
Speaker
Yeah, no. um yeah she's She's finally not feeling good, ah but she's taken in Kinsey after everything that's happened. um And wow, that that whole opening scene where they are still kind of you know, it's been some time and I appreciate that we don't see it super fresh.
00:15:06
Speaker
Um, and it's more like some time has passed and they're still just kind of seeing how they're reeling from it. Oh, it's, it's tough.
00:15:17
Speaker
Yeah. Um, it's definitely a tough part of the story.
00:15:23
Speaker
Between that and what's going on with Byron, poor Breakthrough is not doing so hot. and going on But hey, Byron's alive. That's a positive. Thank God.
00:15:37
Speaker
Although I will say, I kept thinking that like, well, he's alive for now. Because we're going to fix the stupid camera. We're going to figure it out. we're going to be like, oh, look, they can finally live a separate lives and then I feel like he's going to freaking die and I can't deal with that. I can't. I don't. I don't. I don't have it in me.
00:16:03
Speaker
Well, you know, we. We'll burn that dead horse when we get to it, I think. Listen, you can lead a burnt horse to a bridge, but we'll drink it later. You can't can't hold it in a bush.
00:16:21
Speaker
That's right. Oh my god. but You know what they say? A ward in the hand is worth two worms and a bush. What the freaking heck is wrong with us?
00:16:36
Speaker
It's constant. what Yeah. um god where I think we also get... and I don't know if it's...
Character Development Highlights
00:16:44
Speaker
I don't know if it's in this chapter or not, but I know we pretty early on we get the confirmation that original number man is in fact dead.
00:16:52
Speaker
That sucks. yeah and that does which was Which was my prediction is that the one, you know, the the dorky thing, the guy who's all about numbers and he's like, the one thing you can't put a number on, how much I love you.
00:17:07
Speaker
And then he throws himself into the bomb somehow to save what's Citrine. Yeah. yeah Yeah. like that's That's the that's the like very brief ah what's it called? Interlude I needed was Number Man sacrificing himself for Citrine somehow. um um Yeah.
00:17:27
Speaker
Yeah. yeah um Yeah. Rough. I still won't believe it until see the body and or Victoria sees the corpse. but And even then. and even don't know if I believe it.
00:17:41
Speaker
There's like five of them still anyway. Where was Valkyrie? Yeah. Yeah. believe and then so five of them Yeah, exactly. Number lads. um Jacob, your favorite boy had some good moments in this chapter.
00:17:56
Speaker
um Which I have a couple of favorites. a Defiant. Defiant. oh she um Yeah, was likely to yeah, yeah. No, I love Defiant. Everything he does is is awesome. It's the best part. um my god dude yeah Oh my God. my God.
00:18:09
Speaker
Oh my God. I... Okay. Obviously, we know... this make you cry? That they're... No. We know they are... You did a shout from the other room. Yes. So, obviously, they're married. But Defiant Calling Dragon, his wife, is the hottest shit this man has ever said. Just, blah, blah, blah, my wife. I lost my shit. I was like... ah
00:18:37
Speaker
My wife. Hello. Yeah. oh Here I am working with headphones on and I just hear.
00:18:46
Speaker
and i like What? let's Look, it like there's nothing. There's nothing hotter than a man who loves his wife. It's so. Everybody loves a wife guy. Yeah.
00:19:01
Speaker
Defines the ultimate wife guy. He is. alderman Although, you know what? you didn't ah He didn't give himself up like Kurt did, though. so you know Okay, well, look, listen.
00:19:15
Speaker
he's Kurt's gone to distance, is all I'm saying. Listen, you could say in a way that Defiant didn't give himself up, but he had to give up the potential of having Dragon, as we found out at the end of Wyrm, right? There was that... There were the issues that they had discovered, and he had to sort of reboot her system at the risk of losing her. Not knowing. Yeah.
00:19:43
Speaker
Yeah, Defiant the ah becoming the the very hero he thought he was at the start of Wyrm. Right? Really becoming that has just been such a great character arc. I love him.
00:19:56
Speaker
Yeah. and He's the best. You see, this feels, this whole scene with Kinsey feels like a correction, a conscious correction on his part of the mistakes he made with Taylor, right? Mm-hmm.
00:20:12
Speaker
it It almost makes me wish Defiant was the protagonist of Ward, but that aside, right, the the conscious correction of the mistakes like you can see he's like you know I'm not the best person I know you're a lot I've read your file I know who you are it's cool kid like we can be we can be friends I hope um because he knows that I think the last time a child reached out to him was Taylor and he knows how that went yeah yeah So, yeah, it's good one.
00:20:44
Speaker
I really liked it. and And Taylor, another child that will not take no for an answer. Yeah. For real. And has boundary issues. What with the bugs everywhere?
00:20:55
Speaker
Yeah. Oh, my gosh. It's so true. so true oh and they They are both like streams of water. There's no stopping them. And, the you know, the dam just builds up the problem.
00:21:07
Speaker
You can only redirect it. you know, for good. Yeah. Speaking of which, I feel like Taylor had a few name drop. It's later. That's later. But Taylor was mentioned. yeah arc I feel like, which was interesting. Yeah.
00:21:20
Speaker
Yeah. um um We got to give a shout out to having a burrito blanket. um Yeah. I have very important for the grieving process or the, you know, just to get tired process.
00:21:33
Speaker
um very Yeah. true To have a burrito. But everybody should have a burrito blanket. and they should charge up in it.
00:21:42
Speaker
And then make your friends fold it, because they'll look for the corners and realize there aren't any. There you go. um Important. Fran mentioned comments that this means Jack and Bonesaw are the only living Slaughterhouse Nine members, but I i thought Jack died at Goldmourning.
00:21:59
Speaker
for some reason. I also assumed he did. I assumed Jack is gone. He's in a Greyboy bubble. Oh, he's in a Greyboy bubble. So he's not technically dead, I guess.
00:22:10
Speaker
Okay, listen, again, we don't need, don't put that out into the universe. We don't need to deal with Jack again because someone figures out how to bust him out of a Grey Boy bubble. we don't think ive ah They kind of hint at it, right? Because because during the Dauntless pop, um there's that throwaway line of like, well, there's some bubbles we're not we're just not going to touch.
00:22:30
Speaker
Right. yeah who who was Who was talking there, but yeah. So, ah he's he's out there, but firmly narratively dead for the time being.
00:22:41
Speaker
yeah Okay, yeah. Which is good. Again, he's that villain. Although he I think he was trying to be iconic like the Joker, he's not so iconic like the Joker. I'd want him to come back, if that makes sense.
00:22:53
Speaker
um So, yeah. Yeah. Better where he is. um I'm going to stick with the Defiant Dragon thing for a second and say yeah they would be great Kenzie parents.
00:23:08
Speaker
Oh, yeah. 100%. They're the only people capable of parenting Kenzie, I think. Yeah, because Dragon would be, like, the only person who could actively stymie Kenzie's stuff, probably.
00:23:20
Speaker
And she's just up their alley in terms of, like... both of them are probably huge on the like, oh, we share everything. There is no, like we're literally hooked up together on a nervous system level. Like, you know, and yeah, like Kenzie would just, I think they would be great for Kenzie because dragon like specifically dragon would be great for handling everything. Technological and defiant would be a good physical presence there to be like, Hey kid, for sure.
Imagined Scenarios and Guardianship
00:23:53
Speaker
Mm-hmm.
00:23:54
Speaker
Oh yeah, for sure. Because even even having Dragon being able to be like, okay, Kinsey, turn off your tech or I'm going to turn it off for you. You need to go to bed. Yeah. Like only Dragon and Defiant could do that kind of thing. I will EMP the room. yeah yeah None of us will have technology.
00:24:13
Speaker
We're going to be playing Monopoly by candlelight, Kinsey, if you don't go to bed right now. I will pull this dragon or this dragon ship around if you do not stop throwing cameras out the window. Yeah.
00:24:26
Speaker
ah so but I don't know if was joke I think they just straight up were guessing that Kenzie was the dragon kid um which seems to be what um Saint's friend thought it was dragon but it was Kenzie oh yeah hacking into the yeah yeah yeah yeah whoever doesn't matter
00:24:50
Speaker
it doesn't matter but Some kind of Russian name, Ivan. Mishka. Mishka, thank you. Which means mouth.
00:25:01
Speaker
It might have been Misha. Misha. as Mishka is yeah know now mishkas the the character or we're trying to rescue in witch light. That's right. small child. that's true. Our universes are collapsing.
00:25:15
Speaker
Also, think, is this the one...
00:25:19
Speaker
yeah no also i think is this the one Oh, no, it is Mishka. Okay, never mind. um Or Misha? Misha. Misha, yeah. yeah It doesn't even matter. um Is this the one where they have the ah the argument with the kids, or is that later?
00:25:38
Speaker
Oh, with the kids. That is at the end. That's 16.7. Yeah, that's like the last one. That's 16. Okay. Because I just have God, poor Kenzie, ah, tattletale, you softie.
00:25:49
Speaker
So that's much later. No, no, no. This is okay. Gotcha. is. nothing Yeah, yeah yes so So yeah Victoria has a moment where she was recalling back um the basically of Kenzie finding out that Ashley is dead and totally losing it and throwing stuff and you know basically doing a full desk wipe, you know throwing everything off the desk and freaking out and Tattletail coming in and like hugging her and talking to her.
00:26:21
Speaker
And I'll tell you right now, that was the first time I cried. That just killed me. Because, like, we talked about this last time, that Ashley's death, because it's coming from us somebody else, it feels very it feels very impersonal. Her death doesn't feel emotional. We're not seeing an emotional reaction by somebody nearby who cares about her. Like, it's a very impersonal death.
00:26:44
Speaker
And therefore, it doesn't feel heavy to the reader at the time. But, like...
00:26:52
Speaker
it You don't have to see my face to know. ah Yeah, just kind of knowing that Kinsey had that emotional reaction. You know, this, like, outburst of violence is very... Not her, you know? She has such weird emotional reactions to things with the laughing and the smiling and stuff when she's really upset. And we haven't seen her angry too much, really. But I feel like we saw it quite a bit in this arc.
00:27:22
Speaker
But the anger coming through of just, you know, losing her favorite person is as Vic says, but it's. was that was sucked. That was really hard that I think that's what made it feel real that Ashley was gone. Yeah, the again, like you said, the emotional impact of the moment in the actual interlude wasn't that heavy.
00:27:45
Speaker
But again, kind of the aftermath of it is what made it heavy. And I think that's sometimes that's fairly common in media like this. I feel like I'm trying to think of a good example, but like,
00:27:59
Speaker
You know, it's it's just those moments after where you feel it, you know, you're like, I guess it's not as emotional, but if you didn't know what was happening in Lord of the Rings when Gandalf falls, like his death in the moment isn't necessarily super emotional, but the scene afterwards where they're all yelling and crying and, you know, falling and all of that, like that's that's the kind of stuff that often gets me, like you said, so...
00:28:24
Speaker
Yeah, that that brief moment. I forgot about that, but that brief moment. And then having having to be Tattletail, who's, you know because we had that moment with victorian tattletale where Victoria where Victoria's like, just try to help Kinsey. Like, something's wrong. i don't know what's going on.
00:28:38
Speaker
And Tattletail being willing to be like, I'm going to give you a hug. You know, like, very un-villain thing to do. Just a nice thing to do. So, yeah. Yeah.
00:28:48
Speaker
What a softie. Yeah, she really is. And it's brought up later, but I think specifically around watching a loved one die. Tattletail's got a special place in her heart for that. so um That is true.
00:29:03
Speaker
ah One last thing in the 16.1. We got a name drop. Benjamin Terrell.
00:29:17
Speaker
I don't remember the context. You shouldn't remember it because it's teacher's real name and it's stupid. Is it Benjamin? His name's Benjamin. What a goof.
00:29:30
Speaker
ah No, it's not. No, I don't believe it. We'll give him a better name. Yeah. What better name could this loser like? I mean, I can only think of worse names. Oh, yeah. Honestly, Benjamin's kind of just... and I don't want to insult the Benjamins out there. It's just kind of standard.
00:29:46
Speaker
It's better than he deserves. Basic name. I feel like he'd have a first name like Pratt. But like as his first name. You know what? you know what ah last name as He would be a Connor.
00:29:59
Speaker
he'd be Oh, my gosh. If his name was like Pratt James or something, Pratt Connor. You're like, fucker, your names are backward. yeah Exactly. pra He has backward names. Yep, that's it. He's got backward names.
00:30:11
Speaker
and fran Fran commented talking about the effect of dead deaths. is ah That's how I felt about Caesar Zeppeli from Jojo's Bizarre Adventure, I assume. Yeah, he's the mentor, isn't he?
00:30:23
Speaker
he is He's the friend. of He's Joseph's friend. and Not the mentor. of The mentor is Lisa Lisa. um no No, the very first one. name is Lisa Lisa? The guy who teaches him about Hamun. Isn't that... That's Lisa Lisa.
00:30:36
Speaker
Teaches him about... No... no No. Caesar is his friend. yeah He's the one with the scarf. He gives him the scarf, though, after he dies.
00:30:48
Speaker
Or he takes the scarf. I'm looking this up. i mean may I mean, I think they learn. He maybe teaches him, but they... um i don't even know who is. Yeah, he's also a disciple of Lisa Lisa.
00:31:03
Speaker
I have no idea who this guy is. phones ba bamboozle See, the problem is... Who's the crazy magician guy? Black and white. oh that's um Black and white. That's Speedwagon.
00:31:17
Speaker
No, know there's a guy between before Speedwagon. Hearing them talk about something I'm not thinking about yeah is just so funny. Michael, we'll we'll get back to this. We'll go to ask a Lisa Lisa way later.
00:31:31
Speaker
Caesar's his grandson, so Who's... michael should we start a separate po Will and to Antonio Zeppeli. The grandfather Zeppeli. That's the guy who teaches him about Hamun.
00:31:47
Speaker
That's the guy who teaches Jonathan about Hamun. The first one. Okay, but that's not who Caesar i That's why I was like, I have no idea who you're talking about. I don't know who the Caesar guy is, but one of the Zeppelis teaches him about Hamun, and then they get into stands later. Hey man, I too am lost. yeah Hey, J-Man, I just want you to know that this is probably how every person who listens to possibly you or any other anybody else in chat talk about Worm.
00:32:14
Speaker
This is what you sound like. What? It's true. you remember that one guy who dropped in and asked us about March Madness? He probably was very confused. Oh my gosh, I forgot about that guy. don't remember his name, but I'll never forget.
00:32:28
Speaker
Like the algorithm was like, oh, they're talking about March. It must be March Madness. And March is mad. Does matter? March Madness? That might have been why, actually. That's a great theory, though. That's a great theory, though. He was like, what's live right now?
00:32:43
Speaker
and the algorithm was like, here, March Madness. And he was like, hey, and then realized where he was and did a complete one. If we were smarter people at the time, we would have talked about which precog could have called it better.
00:32:58
Speaker
like would number man have called better odds than like Dinah I mean obviously Contessa wins but like yeah that's what we gotta do is we just we gotta slip in references to current events that are live and talk about them yeah and which worm character could build the the best March Madness bracket build the best March yeah alright that's all I got 16.1 Yeah. um The Capra camera is cool. Obviously, it doesn't work quite right, but it is interesting. And it gives them the idea to to break into the Shard dimension, perhaps through Rain's dreams, which I like.
00:33:39
Speaker
um he's with Yeah, so just kind of a cool thing. One of the funny little quirks of the reading I found is that... and And I get it because of what it means, but they're like, Tristan's been switching to Byron more often, so Byron can get more time to heal.
00:33:58
Speaker
um the But Byron has less time to heal than a normal person because he has to share his life with somebody else. So no matter what happens, his healing speed is going to be halved, basically.
00:34:11
Speaker
Yeah. um And then he sustained a head injury? Like, they said he has a potential brain injury? I'm like, oh my god. Listen. This is why it makes me nervous.
00:34:27
Speaker
yeah Yeah. Yeah, he might not be quite alright. We'll have to see what happens. Worried about our boy. Well. 16.2? Yep, it.
00:34:41
Speaker
ye let's do it
00:34:47
Speaker
16.2 and 3, perhaps? They seem to go together. ah Yeah, I don't have too much for 3, Yeah. Probably. aly ah The Wardens are spread thin with various crises, including Sleeper and the Machine Army.
00:35:01
Speaker
Breakthrough talks with Kinsey about Ashley and her team. Dinah claims that Contessa will cause the catastrophe. And in 16.3, Dinah continues to discuss her efforts for the future of humanity and how Contessa has upset all that work.
00:35:17
Speaker
Trying to be helpful, Breakthrough goes after Damsel and of Distress' as a new team, nicknamed Death Chester.
00:35:29
Speaker
I don't think... i I meant to go back and try to listen for it. i don't Maybe I might have dismissed it. Or maybe it was just my... What I'm thinking is happening. But I don't think they mentioned it. But Contessa is still totally influenced by teacher, right?
00:35:43
Speaker
I... I'm going to say no. No. I feel like there's some shit going on. I mean, like, honestly, i i tend to, my in initial reactions tend to be to just, you know, trust Contessa. So when, like, she popped in last time, I was like, oh, great, perfect, glad she's here.
00:35:59
Speaker
did never occur to me while I was reading or listening that... you know, that she might be bad. And then we started talking about it was like oh shit, I guess that's a possibility. And then like we get here and I'm like, well, of course I trust Dinah. We've been with Dinah through all of her shit and she's saying Contessa's bad. Like, God damn it.
00:36:16
Speaker
We trusted the wrong person. Like fucking shit, man. i i question whether it's Contessa being influenced by teacher or just Contessa being nihilistic.
00:36:31
Speaker
the Because Teacher, at the end of Arc 15, Teacher seemed genuinely surprised by the choices that Contessa had made. And i I don't get the vibe that Teacher would make a great fake shock, if that makes sense. Like, Contessa. He's not a good actor. I can't believe it. Yeah, like, that's not his vibe.
00:36:53
Speaker
So, at least that's not how it's written to me. um So i I feel, I wonder more if it's like... Contesta's kind of like her philosophy seems like has turned nihilistic in the sense of like, I don't know, like I'm not trying to save the world anymore. I don't care about what's best
Debate on Foresight and Responsibility
00:37:11
Speaker
for humanity. I did that once and it got most everybody killed.
00:37:17
Speaker
So, you know, whatever. It's kind of the vibe I'm getting from her, right? Yeah. um So I don't know. Yeah. Yeah. At the same time, though, Dinah was, like you said, key in saving the world from, you know, Jack and Scion. Okay.
00:37:41
Speaker
Yeah, which we'll get to that in a second. Right. Which, although, to be fair, we've it's been noted that thinkers like Contessa and like Dinah struggle to see the other one in how they play into their plans.
00:37:56
Speaker
Right. Yes. And so it could be that they are on sort of parallel tracks to save the world, but don't realize they are because their powers don't interact well.
00:38:09
Speaker
Right. A
00:38:16
Speaker
ah couple things that I noted that I really liked. Talking about Kenzie's empty is a different kind of gauge than other people's.
00:38:29
Speaker
um Just the concept of like what it means to run on empty for certain people.
00:38:38
Speaker
Which you've been using precog too much. Got a nosebleed. Did you really? Yeah. yeah I've just been predicting predicting the future too much. Which, if we want to go ahead and say that I somehow called every everything correct on the assassination of Citrine, except it was all the pieces and I didn't get the actual what happened correct somehow.
00:39:07
Speaker
Once again, my precog abilities are just... yeah weeks song I didn't understand because I was like, I'm pretty sure Dinah was working with the anti-parahuman group and that she was responsible for the bombing, which was technically true.
00:39:27
Speaker
all of that was technically true. like yeah I was like, I was like, I don't know about number five, there seems like there's something up with him. And I was like, the two of them combined, it was like, are they working together? And the answer is no, neither of them were technically responsible for killing Citrine and Kurt.
00:39:50
Speaker
Um, because like Dinah knew that the bomb wasn't going to work, but because Contessa stepped in and did it, it did work by accident.
00:40:03
Speaker
So like, yeah,
00:40:07
Speaker
unfortunate
00:40:12
Speaker
What do I say? J-Man, what do you think of Dinah's plan? Is it okay for her to meddle in the middle of this without everyone else's approval?
00:40:22
Speaker
He does not need, first of all, she does not need anybody's approval. This girl has had to, you know, she's gone through the worst of it. And, like, we know she's she's mercenary status. She does shit for money.
00:40:35
Speaker
She doesn't, like... Technically, she doesn't owe anyone any explanation. She could go off and do her own thing because Contessa basically also did her own thing. She just partnered up with the doctor and, you know, Cauldron. And Dinah's like, all right, i'm going to do the same fucking thing. And I'm just going to partner with the non-parahumans, sort of, and plan my own shit. Like, she doesn't owe anybody an explanation. Now, would it have helped? Like, yeah, probably if our precogs could fucking talk to each other and get over their egos. but
00:41:07
Speaker
you know, here we are. Yeah. Also, Bernard, I have read the story before and I don't remember the Dinah being involved with the situation. Okay. Out of the 2.6 million words, those were like, you know, but percentage of a percentage that I don't remember.
00:41:24
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. yeah yeah Yeah. I use my, my, ah you know, my powers for the rest. Yeah. I,
00:41:33
Speaker
yeah i yeah I don't know. i Obviously, you know like Hannah said, Dinah doesn't really owe anything to anybody. um And I think she was working with Faultline's crew for a bit, so it makes sense that she'd be a bit more mercenary. Am I remembering that right? she she They worked they like hi got her established, and now she, in return, hires them as protection all the time. So it's probably one of those just like mutually they just always are technically on call or whatnot. Yeah.
00:42:03
Speaker
Yeah, so I don't know. I mean, it seems like every thinker or precog has grand master plans for how they're going to save the world, whether it's Coil or Contessa or Dinah now or Accord had his PowerPoint presentations and Excel spreadsheets to save the world. You know, um everybody's got something. And I think that's part of the...
00:42:33
Speaker
interesting particularities of powers in this universe is that while they come from the same source they are meant to be in conflict so it makes sense that if you have this kind of power everybody would think well my plan's the best one to save the world because that's part of the conflict the powers want you to have um what was dina's code name bernard asked kid cassandra kid cassan Kid Cassandra.
00:42:58
Speaker
What does that mean? Okay, so it's not it's not the her nickname. She just goes by Dinah or the you know the whatever. yeah um it's ah It's Tattletail's name for her. Because Cassandra, if you remember from ah Greek mythology, the...
00:43:16
Speaker
the priestess oracle who like predicts the Trojan War and the fall of Troy but she's been she's a been cursed by Apollo to always be right and have nobody listen to her um gotcha okay wow i like that that I didn't catch that and I forgot to look it up um yeah very cool very cool I like it um
00:43:47
Speaker
Yeah, we get one one small detail as we get a bit more about Sleeper. um According to NAFTA, Sleeper has absolute invulnerability better than Alexandria's, special brains, and absolute annihilation powers.
00:44:04
Speaker
ah The phrasing of special brains, though, only brings to mind the ah Mass Effect meme, the special eyes.
Discussion on Sleeper's Powers
00:44:14
Speaker
He's got special brains. My brains. My My brains.
00:44:21
Speaker
oh
00:44:24
Speaker
um that aside though uh i was looking at the comments about sleeper and somebody's like well i'm kind of sad he doesn't have master stranger powers and somebody's like well we don't know that yet he it still fits with the theory that he just makes everybody think he's super strong but he's not actually powerful i do oh my god i love that it's still a great theory uh like uh basically what was the um slaughterhouse sign just night was it was named just nice guy ah yeah oh yes yeah that exactly think he was non threatening yeah yeah same one except the reverse so everyone just thinks he's super threatening yeah yeah it's just a guy who wants to sit on his porch yeah exactly he just wants to sit on his porch and his only power is to make you think it he's too powerful for you to fight great
00:45:13
Speaker
and That'd be a great power actually. be funny. Very funny. um There's a, I think I've mentioned it before in relation to sleeper, but um there is a Cape story by Brandon Sanderson and one of the characters in it is invulnerable as long as you are afraid of him.
00:45:31
Speaker
So it's a very similar, like you can't hurt him if you're afraid of him is, is the vibe. And, and I really like that. it's sort of with sleeper. It's like, it's, it's the aura of it. Right.
00:45:42
Speaker
um yeah exactly yeah yeah also we finally got like a power like classification for him it's just sleeper absolute invulnerability absolute annihilation yeah yeah just dead incredible right yeah yeah if even Capri looked at sleeper and was like not worth the trouble it's something that's something good times strong we love it It does make my story brain wonder if, like... It's one of those things where, like, he is...
00:46:21
Speaker
It's like the the god that you can befriend kind of a thing. Like, he he has all of this power that, like, you don't, you really don't want to get on his bad side. But if you can reason with him that, like, maybe you can get him on your side. So my mental picture of him is very much, like, obviously he is a problem.
00:46:40
Speaker
But until we get to the point where he's, like, active in the story, I still have, like, this thought in the back of my head that, like, he's actually going to end up being an ally because we can, like... convince him or some shit and I just don't like I won't not believe that until it's like yeah actively a problem yeah kind of the inbringers kind of like how the inbringers turned in the uh actually yes exactly like the inbringers yeah which was one of the best parts of Wyrm the inbringers turning turning good yes that was so great right although you know we still have
00:47:14
Speaker
Simriff is there. She's still sitting on Dauntless's shoulder. You can be real nervous. brings sweet nothings. yeah Gotta wonder what's up there. Yep. don't trust Weird shit's going on.
00:47:30
Speaker
Anyways. um Yeah, so we get ah they decide to go after Damsel of Distress's new team with the limitation that they can only use always-on powers.
00:47:42
Speaker
Or um they have to be able to turn them on far away and then keep them on, um which is such an interesting limitation, right? So you've got, you know, some people whose powers just don't work, basically. Like, Tristan's like, so I've just got my strength and my endurance. Like, that sucks.
00:48:02
Speaker
Victoria can fly. charm. My brand. charm. my brain my My brains! My special brains. um You know, Kinsey's good. Sveta's good. Rain can like summon his knives, but has to hold them the whole time.
00:48:19
Speaker
um So just kind of really cool limitations to the power. um And of course, the name of the team is Deathchester. The one thing that Damsel wanted write was having her own team, her own territory.
00:48:33
Speaker
That was the one she tried to have. um Yeah, so we can get into sixteen four unless there are more. um Yeah, let's see. Let's talk about yeah i mean let's talk about bullet time.
00:48:53
Speaker
Are you really one of the coolest capes around talking to Rain? you know oh oh yeah, yeah, yeah. He's got like six toaster-sized guns like strapped to his back.
00:49:08
Speaker
And, you know, walks up. And I imagine it's just Reaper from Overwatch. Where, you know, he does his, like, he's just pulling guns out all the time.
00:49:19
Speaker
ah Yeah. Seemed really freaking cool. And he looks like a total, you know, huge guy, guns, badass. And then they start talking to him. He's like, dude, I'm so nervous. It's so crazy here. I that song. Yeah. What do i do What is to hear? He's a great character.
00:49:38
Speaker
I mean, again, how is it that Rain is like the most charismatic member of Breakthrough? It feels like he's like making friends everywhere he goes. I love I knew he could do it. Show me your stuff sometime. show me your moves it's because he's the least intimidating out of the entire group who's the most approachable you know what again i can only imagine the fallen is southern I don't know what that says about me but I just imagine it's just rain like are like easy going you right he's got this easy going southern attitude right that makes him easy to talk to you're just like hey man how's it going
00:50:17
Speaker
Oh, don't. You say it so, like, low and slow. It sounds creepy. Hey, man. My name's Rain.
00:50:29
Speaker
No, you can't. No, they said you can't. No. Look at that, Nick. I hate it. Does he have that yeah that rich... ah how does always loved how Angie describes in The Office, right, that...
00:50:45
Speaker
the the the draw that's just coming out of your mouth like molasses spilling out of your mouth. Yes. Yes. Yeah, exactly. i was about to say, we we have a friend who's every time she like really talks a lot about the things she's passionate about her, her southern draw gets really, really pronounced.
00:51:07
Speaker
And it's so funny to me. and she'll She'll be talking and then she'll be talking then all of a sudden she'll be saying like this and she'll she'll move into it and you can hear it and you're like, Mandy, Mandy, what just happened? She's like, I'm sorry. and it's adorable.
00:51:23
Speaker
That's cute. That's funny. yep And then J-Man mentioned that they really liked Gollum in these chapters as well, which I agree with. Gollum is always a ah delight.
00:51:35
Speaker
Always a pleasure. Wait, wait, wait, wait. Also, I don't know the guns, but we never did see his feet. Why are we talking about feet? In response to Truett saying Robert Lee Feldass character, and then Fran said because of the feet and said, no, the guns, but we never did see his feet. I don't feel like I understand what's happening. What's going on, chat? I should have known.
00:52:03
Speaker
I should have known as soon as I started typing it it was like comic books. I'm like, I know who Rob Liefeld is. We all know who Rob Liefeld is. You just have to look one of his male characters drawn or worse, one of his female characters drawn. Oh no.
00:52:22
Speaker
That's funny. Yeah. Yup, yup, yup. He's got the famous muscle. was going to say, did he draw the Captain America? Yeah, the famous Captain America. Yes, he did. The absolutely stacked chest Captain America. Wait, wait. A different description of that photo was the artist accidentally pressed shift with all caps on drawing his head.
00:52:51
Speaker
was like... think The whole body and then just the super tiny head is great. Yeah, yeah, yeah. you look up yeah robert least Oh, my God. What? Yeah. That is a certain certainly a choice there. You know... What am I looking at? That that is somebody who doesn't respect... Proportion? Physical anatomy.
00:53:18
Speaker
It's like when they designed the Barbie and like if she was actually in human form, she'd she her neck would break and she'd fall over because her proportions are so weird. Yeah, he looks like a freaking ah rescue hero ass looking motherfucker.
00:53:33
Speaker
Wow, that is... Yeah. True, it says, Rob Liefield was a famous artist and he could not draw feet at all. So they were not in frame a lot.
00:53:44
Speaker
And thus, that's how this came up.
00:53:49
Speaker
That's funny. so senator ever dream I didn't know that about it him and feet. There we go. Thank you for the context. Now I know too much.
00:54:00
Speaker
Isn't that what this podcast is all about? Apparently he he was really into guns as well, which is why we could know. bullet I mostly know him from cable comics. Hmm.
00:54:12
Speaker
Yeah. denque was Did he create cable?
Comic Work and Inspirations
00:54:15
Speaker
He might have. I'll be honest. i I know he did a lot of the Deadpool universe or expanded stuff, I think.
00:54:23
Speaker
The Weapon X, probably. Yeah. ah Let's see. what We already did that. We talked about him. oh Oh, so I've got a question.
00:54:34
Speaker
So do we think... Yes, Rob Liefeld, the anti-Tarantino. Do we think that Contessa is responsible for the bombing of Citrine and whatnot?
00:54:48
Speaker
is Or is it an intentional thing that she's doing or she's unintentionally getting used by her shard? Like her shard is running the show.
00:55:00
Speaker
Hmm. Interesting. I would be neat if Contessa and her shard were at odds here. would be interesting. Yeah, like her shard was feeding her wrong information. Well, it's gonna say, what if she's getting teachered by her shard? Like, right. She's the saint in this scenario going, oh, I'm just gonna go about my day, you know, making my own decisions and surprise, not.
00:55:28
Speaker
Right. I... i Have a thought, perhaps. Go on. i I'm still not 100% convinced that Sveta wasn't supposed to be the second person who died Contessa's plan.
00:55:46
Speaker
yeah And what if in her plan she determined it was worth risking Number Man and Citrine for Sveta for some reason?
00:56:00
Speaker
Maybe as a as an apology or maybe as a need for the future, right? Because the only thing that really changes is the number of lads get split up but because a couple of them have to go talk to Citrine.
00:56:13
Speaker
And number five, the one who's having doubts and is out of sync is the one who ends up with Sveta. Yeah. Right. So, I don't know.
00:56:24
Speaker
Interesting. um A bit of a stretch, maybe. um But I would say... i like it, though. i I don't know. The thing the thing that's hard about Contessa is she was always about you know the quote-unquote greater good, right?
00:56:38
Speaker
You kill 999 people so you can save 1,000. That was Cauldron's whole thing. um And my thinking is just like
00:56:51
Speaker
possibly Number Man was a needed fatality for the sake of something that we don't know about, right? It's just one of those variables that we don't know that perhaps she did. yeah So, yeah.
00:57:05
Speaker
And that's to say, like J-Man says, does Contessa even care about Kurt or Citrine? and i don't think necessarily. I mean, she worked with Number Man closely, but I mean, I don't think she really cared that much, and to be honest.
00:57:19
Speaker
It was more of a professional relationship. Yeah, also this like question of Because Contessa feels very removed. Like, to me, she feels very removed from the equation. So, like, does she even allow herself to have friends or, like, people that she likes? Because it would potentially cloud, you know, her judgment on, like, well, I don't want to pick that route because this person might die. So, like, I'm going to pick this other route because then they won't die. But, like, 30 extra people might die in that route, so I'm going to take that one. Like, I i wonder if she sees it very...
00:57:55
Speaker
it clinically and it's like I don't make friends because they they get in the way of like me choosing the best outcome for planet I mean regardless of it her if her shard is like lying to her or misleading her or at odds with her in any way but like if she you know likes or dislikes Citrine the idea of like well it doesn't matter like I i try not to think about it
00:58:19
Speaker
it might change things mm-hmm
00:58:30
Speaker
Also, I've never read the bread fanfic. What a bread fanfic? The answer's no. No, we have not.
00:58:39
Speaker
is the I'm going to keep it up. I don't think I've read any kind of say here Yeah, I haven't read any fanfic. Outside of than our own. should write our own fanfic. We read a couple of our fanfic.
00:58:53
Speaker
Go check the Patreon. and We read a couple fanfics, but not the bread one.
00:59:00
Speaker
I can only imagine.
00:59:04
Speaker
If that's something you really want and it's short enough for us to do, let us know. If it's not... the ah Is it the loaf? catching Yeah, to a lo to a loaf of bread.
00:59:16
Speaker
it called loaf? No, is there's one called loaf where Contessa decides to bake the perfect loaf of bread but without using her powers. Oh, no. That's amazing certainly that's interesting.
00:59:30
Speaker
Just a recipe.
00:59:34
Speaker
I have those online. do want to read that now. I'm going to go find it. I've not read that. Yeah, I kind of want. I feel like we need to do a part two of... Yeah, as I was going to say, yeah, we need to do it for the for the Patreon. Like a bunch of... ah a bunch more...
00:59:56
Speaker
Like I said, if it was short enough for us to do, let us know. Send them over. Give us your suggestions for fanfics.
01:00:07
Speaker
and Since we blended over into 16.3, one of my favorite lines. that Gary, you aren't that important. Yes, finally, someone said it to the man. Yeah. Dynas just talked to him about how he's like, well, I feel uncomfortable that I've been manipulated by a parahuman.
01:00:27
Speaker
Am I in any danger? Gary, nobody gives a fuck about you. Gary. You're collateral damage at best. Okay. Gary, on the chessboard, you're pawn.
01:00:39
Speaker
Oh, poor guy. It's such a blow to your ego. Like, oh, bummer, man. Gary, we're playing chess. You're over there playing checkers.
01:00:53
Speaker
a You're in the sandbox. You're in the sandbox. Yeah.
01:01:01
Speaker
I do feel it is. we talked about Gary a lot. Obviously, it's it's an interesting perspective to to kind of remind us what like the normal folks are doing about going about their day in this type of crazy world.
01:01:14
Speaker
But yeah, it's it's hilarious how insignificant that all feels compared to what's going on. Yeah. We do need, I bet there's probably some good fanfics.
01:01:28
Speaker
Or normal normal people fanfics. Yeah.
01:01:35
Speaker
Interesting. ah He's playing kick-tack-toe.
01:01:40
Speaker
And losing.
01:01:45
Speaker
I did see ah he said that. there was There's a guy trying to train like a robot with AI to like always win a tic-tac-toe, but it it keeps losing, but it keeps like breaking the rules.
01:01:56
Speaker
It'll start to fill it in, realize it'll lose, and then go outside the box, do a circle, and win that way. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's what Gary's doing.
01:02:10
Speaker
Well, on to 16.4.
01:02:15
Speaker
Yep. Alrighty. 16.4. Breakthrough assists the Huntsmen in fighting Deathchester. Mockument makes a wretch caricature.
01:02:28
Speaker
Victoria falls deeper into her power.
Character Disdain and Power Dynamics
01:02:31
Speaker
And the heroes surrender to stop the fight and safeguard civilian lives.
01:02:39
Speaker
Boy, this was rough. ona This was rough. A rough one. i don't know i don't think they were the... like Let's maybe not send the the people grieving the loss of their friend to fight the you know the one other person that looks just like their friend.
01:03:00
Speaker
yeah It was kind of their idea, right yeah yeah Bad idea. that idea and that idea idea like think Kenzie's like, yeah, we should go and do this. Should have been a red flag. Should have said, no, send literally anybody else. we cannot go on this mission.
01:03:16
Speaker
and you ah Just a thought. oh Guys? Yeah. Which I did really appreciate ah Wild Bo's ability to flip-flop between Ashley and Damsel in Swan Song so like cleanly at different moments.
01:03:31
Speaker
Where it's like, clearly you can kind of get an idea of where Victoria's headspace is ah when they're referring to Damsel, not Swan Song. um It's very clever.
01:03:41
Speaker
um i i want to talk about Mockument, but my one of my favorite character moments... I think maybe in this whole... In Ward so far is when Victoria just looks at him and is like, I hate your power, and he goes, yeah, me too.
01:03:58
Speaker
but he should Like, just such a small but telling moment of, like, yes he's got the jester's outfit, but you can tell this is a deeply sad, horrified man at what he can do. Like, she hates himself.
01:04:14
Speaker
And he has one other line, which is... ah what is it? the The original holder of the power died.
01:04:26
Speaker
oh yes I'm what's left. yeah yeah Yeah. that does like oh
01:04:35
Speaker
That's such a hard hitting single you know phrase right there. Oh my gosh. yeah mockument goes hard in this chapter and yeah my god like what a like combination i guess it's a bit of a thinker power because it kind of delves into your like your emotions and your feelings and reveals them but also whatever the name for a power is is like you know that makes things i don't remember what that's called
01:05:09
Speaker
um I think that's part birther. was going to say that's part master, isn't it? Like you can create things and then yeah or and or control them. Right. Yeah, yeah, that might be master. Yeah.
01:05:26
Speaker
But yeah, well what a what an awful power. What an awful, awful power. Is he up there? Capes. it Yeah, the list of capes who who hate their powers the most.
01:05:39
Speaker
is He'd be on there. For sure. Yeah. The whole caricature scene was rough. oh it was there It was really tough.
01:05:51
Speaker
was really tough. Yeah, this was... this was a is I had to pause it and take a little bit of a break. I just... i In general, I i tend to...
01:06:03
Speaker
in the same vein of killing off characters, i I tend to enjoy the torture of a character a little bit to push them to the extreme to see what they will do. um And oftentimes, you know, the character will disappoint you. they'll They'll, you know, they'll step outside of whatever rules they've set for themselves and they'll they'll break rank and they'll, I'm going to kill you. You know, they go in full, you know, full arm swing and everything.
01:06:26
Speaker
and And she just, she doesn't. And I think that broke me more than I expected that it just, it, really, like... like it it like I was you know pacing around my office as I'm you know listening because you know your girl can't sit still and listen to this shit.
01:06:44
Speaker
And I'm you know pacing around the room and I just i i had to pause it. was It was so horrid. The worst kind of bullying and the the voice.
01:06:56
Speaker
ah yeah I've said this before, give full props to the the audiobook and just Rain Ramsey, who does the narration for this part, just... The voice that he did for the you know this caricature is just truly awful. Just truly awful.
01:07:14
Speaker
And like I'm you know sitting on my floor sobbing my eyes out just like... we Leave her alone. Like, it only takes one glance to see that, there you know, like, maybe we don't pick on her. Like, maybe we move on. Maybe we pick somebody else in this moment. Like, the villains are villainous for a reason, but, like, this is this is too far. Like, stop.
01:07:42
Speaker
Oof. Yeah, this is one of those, an interesting moment where, and and I was actually, ah it's a good I'm going to bring it up now. he was going to bring it up in the next chapter as well. But um we keep making comparisons to Worm a lot, obviously.
01:07:56
Speaker
And I was really thinking about these chapters because they highlight another... Issue's the wrong word, but I think one reason why overall I've i've clearly you have enjoyed Worm more than Ward so far, and that's been that like despite all of the obstacles and the challenges and the setbacks and the harm and all this kind of stuff, like Taylor wins a lot.
01:08:22
Speaker
She has a lot of wins throughout Worm. Small wins. you know, two steps forward, one step back here and there. But like, it's constant progression, constant victories, self-wins, team wins, etc. And it just feels like nobody in Ward can win a damn thing.
01:08:42
Speaker
It's like every interaction is just blow after blow and punch. It's just brutal. And like after 16 arcs of it, it's like, come on, give him a win.
01:08:55
Speaker
And yeah, i mean, obviously we'll get to it, but even like Ken's it like, it's just, nobody catches a break. It's rough. Yeah. Yeah. ah Yeah. I've, I've been waiting and cringing knowing that this is coming.
01:09:11
Speaker
Like, ah it's, oh it so it's so uncomfortable. And do you feel so bad for, i just, everybody. um And then, of course, you've got to have the the greatest combo of all time.
01:09:29
Speaker
ah You know, Mockument and Side Piece. Fuck Side Piece. Yeah. Oh, my God. Yeah. ah Rough. Yeah.
01:09:41
Speaker
Fuck. Her sitting on the ground laughing so hard she can't get her words out. it's It's like, I mean, it it truly is like so fucking low. Like, we've all had moments. Okay, listen. We've all had moments in our lives where we said something we didn't mean and we immediately felt guilty about it or we did something and we were like, shit, I shouldn't have said that. That was like really cutting. You have moments in your life where you make a mistake and you think, shit, like I was the villain in that argument. Like, i should not have said that. I...
01:10:10
Speaker
picked a low blow and I did it anyways. There's a difference between that and reveling. She's reveling in this.
01:10:22
Speaker
In this, because this caricature is fumbling around naked as the wretch. Like, And she just is sitting on the ground and laughing because it's so funny to her that, oh, look, the big hero is getting humbled in this moment. Like, God, you should be embarrassed for yourself that you think this is funny. Like, this is so low.
01:10:51
Speaker
so low. Ugh.
01:10:56
Speaker
Yeah. It hurt to watch and it's... yeah oh was yeah Oh, man. It's is's definitely, and the audiobook is very good. I've been listening to it more because I've been listening to it while I go for runs or exercise or things. And yeah, this was one where I was just like, oh, and very well done, but it's it does make me feel the grossness of what's going on.
01:11:20
Speaker
And yeah, just i personally admire Victoria's self-control because there there is very little, and as a writer, I think it it'd be easy to fall into this, right? Like, there's very little more satisfying than when the bully or the loudmouth talker finally gets their comeuppance and, like, gets shut up, you know?
01:11:45
Speaker
And so, i can only imagine the temptation. Victoria would have felt as a character, but also Wild Bo as a writer to be, like,
01:11:57
Speaker
you know, maybe I just have Victoria have a fuck it moment, you know, just like, yeah, fuck it. And then she kills side piece, right? Like something really drastic where it's just like, she just force field smashes side piece into the sidewalk side piece is dead. And everybody's like, holy shit, Victoria, what did you do?
01:12:14
Speaker
Like that. Don't use the rain voice. That was the rain voice. God damn Victoria, what'd you do that for?
01:12:25
Speaker
No, no, no! so got blood all over this here sidewalk, lots of civilians watching you. No! Goddamn. I'll tell you what, Vicky.
01:12:37
Speaker
I'll tell you what. You've put them into more like Appalachia now, which also fits. That's funny.
01:12:45
Speaker
it's that Just trying to do, ah I don't know if any of you guys are King of the Hill fans, but trying to do Boom Hour from King of the Hill. I'll tell you what, where are you going to be? Get that guy on his high piece. and it You just sound like a, like ah what are the, cat i don't know what they're called, the at cattle wranglers. An auctioneer, yes, like a cattle auctioneer.
01:13:11
Speaker
fast. But yeah, um Yeah, or such a rough chapter. um Yeah, you can it's interesting to imagine. Yeah, like Fran kind of hinted at, Taylor's mockery would include the locker, probably.
01:13:28
Speaker
yeah You can kind of imagine like what mockument power would pull. Because the fact that it reaches deep enough to know that Victoria had feelings for Amy, that Victoria sees herself as the wretch, that these are... like It's very real. It's wrong about most of what it's saying, of course, because it's a mockument.
01:13:51
Speaker
ah But it's it's eerily close, and it makes you wonder how deep the power reaches to see like how you really feel about stuff and what it would find about other characters, right? like What would it pull out for rain? what would it What embarrassing things would it pull out for...
01:14:09
Speaker
Oh, God, you imagine if it got Tristan or Byron? Oh, God. Mostly Tristan, you know, like. Yeah, of course. Yeah. Worst things you've ever thought is like coming up in out loud for everyone to hear. Like.
01:14:24
Speaker
Yeah.
01:14:29
Speaker
Yeah, it's it's it's shitty. It's real, real shitty. I i'm wouldn't be upset if if I'd peace bit it. Because it's not even the dude.
01:14:41
Speaker
Yeah, it's not even him, the guy with the power. like he like He's clearly not happy with it, but it's made so much worse because of Side Piece just like laughing her ass off. Like, oh my god, someone bury her, please.
01:14:57
Speaker
Yeah. i just I was looking up, ah without any spoilers, looking up Mockument's wiki, and it says... does not seem to enjoy his life, likely living a tortured existence.
01:15:10
Speaker
Yes. And then it says, the other thing, though, is that I forgot about is Mockument has a gesture theme to his costume, but is described as being proportioned like a gorilla.
01:15:22
Speaker
Yeah. why You think of him as like a tiny little bastard guy, but he's actually huge. Yep. Oh, weird. Hilarious. Not the mental picture at all.
01:15:37
Speaker
You know, he's a little... He's a little echidna-like. Interesting. Yeah, kind of. Interesting. You're right. no i'm thinking about it now.
01:15:50
Speaker
Actually, false copies, kind of. Actually, that's...
01:15:57
Speaker
Okay. He's little echidna-like, actually. now The more I think, because the mockument things get powers, too. Okay, maybe not the case, but hear me out. I think you might be onto to something, especially with what he said.
01:16:12
Speaker
ah yeah The original user of my power died, and I'm what's left. Yeah. What if the original user had out ability to create, like, clones of people, some, you know, temporarily or whatnot.
01:16:27
Speaker
They got echidna'd and he has like his his brokenness is like some sort of anhedonia, you know?
01:16:40
Speaker
Yeah. And he has this power that is a twisted version of the original person's power. But even so, it it is like an echidna power, though, itself, where the echidna would make copies of capes with their powers, but with twisted personalities.
01:17:00
Speaker
Huh. h Fascinating. would Would a mockument of like Rachel just be someone who's super friendly and outgoing and extroverted?
01:17:11
Speaker
I imagine it just goes more hard, like, nobody touch me, everybody get away from me, don't perceive me. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. yeah I don't want to miss what J-Man said. He said the misinterpretation, the villain um that Victoria actually loves Amy is what got to them so messed up.
01:17:36
Speaker
Yeah. Oh, yeah, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And the whole like almost does sister fucker, sister lover comments right are so... no yeah Like that.
01:17:46
Speaker
Yeah. Making little of the worst thing.
01:17:52
Speaker
Yeah.
01:17:55
Speaker
Mm. Mm. Yeesh.
01:17:59
Speaker
Well, well. Well.
01:18:03
Speaker
bang ah This is so sad. Alexa, play Despacito. Yeah. No.
01:18:10
Speaker
Dragon, play Despacito. Dragon, play Dragon, play Gasolina. Oh my god. let's keep going. let's keep going Should we move on?
01:18:23
Speaker
yeah we got move on 16.5 is kind of ah related. 16.5 is pretty short. It is related. It's pretty short. 16.5 Breakthrough and aetna and Etna interact while tracking down Deathchester. and They discuss some powers, shard mechanics, instincts, and more.
01:18:43
Speaker
They get their meeting with Damsel and make a deal. the one The one note I had for this chapter is basically, wow, Victoria really did beat the villain out of Etna and apparently all of her personality. Yeah, because we were talking about, like, does she still have brain damage?
01:18:59
Speaker
We want to talk about people with brain damage. She's just like, like, because she's super sincere with all of her responses, but she's just like, yeah. Huh. Huh. I hadn't thought about that. Very, like, short-worded, doesn't really Yeah.
01:19:14
Speaker
Like, hmm, hmm, hmm, it's the What have you done? There's that meme that's been going around that's like, I've got the magic in me. Like, Victoria, like, looking at her hands, like, after punching the evil out of Aetna.
01:19:31
Speaker
It's like, I do that more often. Oh, God.
01:19:40
Speaker
All right. 16. Yeah. 5.
01:19:43
Speaker
one five yeah i I guess the only other thing that's interesting is they they make the deal with Damsel to get her some territory with... so get her an inn with Tattletail. Yeah.
01:19:54
Speaker
Which I thought was nice. Comes up a bit later. Yeah. I'm trying to think. um i don't feel like there's too much...
01:20:06
Speaker
They talk about shard stuff. People in chat remind us, if anything, 16.5 with the shard stuff. Yeah, I don't feel like there was too much. i don't I didn't feel like it was anything we didn't kind of know already, but maybe I'm just remembering.
01:20:19
Speaker
All right. 16.6. Victoria and Kinsey talk about growing up. They meet with Natalie about new rules for capes, and then talk to, and are almost attacked by, the heartbroken over what Kinsey learned during the teacher raid.
01:20:41
Speaker
Hey, look at look at Natalie Goh leading the charge, right? like ah i I love this moment for her as a character development off of the Armstrong interlude where he's looking at her, he's with her, and he's like, I was in her shoes 25, 30 years ago.
Fight Scene Dynamics and Limitations
01:20:57
Speaker
She's going to be all right. like If she figures it out, she'll be good. just you know she'll get She'll find her way in this crazy world. And it seems like she is. proud. um felt proud yeah little human If one day we get a pair of humans three and there's a big time jump, it'd be cool to see Natalie definitely in charge of something.
01:21:17
Speaker
Oh, I didn't want to miss, J-Man did mention not cracking the ice, added a nice dynamic to the fight, loved loved flying up high to activate the force field. yeah That whole fight scene was really well done because of that dynamic.
01:21:31
Speaker
ah We did kind of overlook that, but we had mentioned it earlier where that was, that tension made that fight really unique because Victoria couldn't just go Super Saiyan and beat them up because aside from Damsel, I feel like Victoria could probably take them pretty easily. Most of those villains. Oh yeah.
01:21:49
Speaker
um in a normal situation so i at least side piece hook line is yeah hookline's kind of annoying and not comp but again if she'd had her her full use of the wretch and her force field and everything it probably wouldn't have been as big of a deal um but yeah yeah good good fight dynamic oh oh all like get there go little cat on screen no nothing a little about this big boy
01:22:19
Speaker
yeah chga but um But yeah, i I like fights with limitations. Fights with limitations are very fun. And I think they make them a lot more interesting.
01:22:32
Speaker
good I mean, I think that's one of the things I really liked about Taylor was that because her her power felt so like, well, what the are supposed to do with bugs in the middle of a fight, you know, here? Like, she she's great with reconnaissance, but like, what he supposed to do in the middle of stuff? And she was so creative in coming up with things like the capsaicin, you know, and... Like, it was cool to see her find inventive ways to do stuff when she herself was very, you know, squishy. She's very limited.
01:22:58
Speaker
And so, yeah, having those limitations make a fight more interesting. You have to find ways to circumvent your own powers, and that's cool.
01:23:10
Speaker
I think think the coolest thing that I remember happening was, doesn't she, like... what What is it that she like retch knocks away his hook when he's like sneaking it under the cars towards her?
01:23:24
Speaker
Mm-hmm. I think Is that Victoria? but Yeah, I think so. and And she like does it and he's like, that's interesting.
01:23:35
Speaker
as Oh, no, no, no. She sees it coming and she bats it away, except it takes her a second to realize that she didn't slap it away. She retched it away.
01:23:46
Speaker
And she was like, oh, we're in sync.
01:23:51
Speaker
yeah Yeah, that's right. That's right. Yeah. Which has been a nice thing because they talked mentioned it before that like at one point in time, her hands picked up six guns. And we're using them at one point in time. Exactly. Yeah. yeah well That was that with teacher. Yeah.
01:24:07
Speaker
Yeah. Which is a lot of coordinated dexterity. Yeah. yeah Very cool. We love that for her. Very cool.
Regulations and Legal System in World-Building
01:24:19
Speaker
Thump my boy like a watermelon over here. um Fran said we can't have Parahumans 3 if Valafor is not alive to be violently hurt by the protagonist. god a would love that as running bit.
01:24:30
Speaker
yeah Valafor keeps coming back and gets absolutely mangled every time. it's just ah It's just the Valkyrie clone of him. He's like, well, I guess he's kind of back. Still just gets his act.
01:24:42
Speaker
I'm dead. They can't get me now. what's ah What's the report of her Mass Effect? right I'm tired of your disingenuous accusations. Just piece shit out of them. All three games. Yeah.
01:24:56
Speaker
Yep. You gotta at least take a line. Beckford, you are laying on my head. Yep. I'm trying to think of what... ah I did like the new rules for the capes. It did feel like, okay, this is actually...
01:25:10
Speaker
Like, they're trying to do something with the legal system. I can appreciate that world building. I think they did a ah decent job making that part interesting when something like that could have been pretty boring. Mm-hmm.
01:25:23
Speaker
But... it It does make me think a little bit, though. Like, it feels like a lot of rules... Ugh... I mean, like, okay, yes, they're important.
01:25:34
Speaker
And if I was on the side of the humans, the regular normal people, I'd be like, yeah, of course, we have to put limitations on these guys. But as someone who is on the side of the parahumans, being like, don't don't put shackles on my people. Like, don't don't, you know, tie their hands behind their backs. Let them do what they got to do.
01:25:52
Speaker
And, you know, I thought that the birdcage was a pretty great solution. Let's bring back the birdcage. What's wrong with the birdcage? What's wrong with dropping people into a dimension they can't get out of? that what Listen. I think it's the having so many people in one location, probably.
01:26:06
Speaker
ah It worked fine before, because then we could pull them out in case we needed them. Well, the ice this time. Okay, well. Yeah.
01:26:18
Speaker
I think I got a good solution. is Just ah chuck them into a different ah different earth. Yeah. know Hey, You're not going to play nice? and Go play over there. you know I'm out. Yeah.
01:26:30
Speaker
to with Goodbye. Goodbye. yeah Goodbye. Yeah. I do like, it seems like they have a slightly rehabilitative mindset though, which is decent. Probably good. you were you know Considering no powers come from trauma and um wow.
01:26:54
Speaker
That's because Alan put his mic up close to him. That was not that close to him either. was going to say, otherwise we couldn't put him. He's vibrating. He's a loud pervert. Little sweet boy.
01:27:09
Speaker
Sounded like you said loud pervert. He's a loud pervert. Alan, he's a loud pervert. but No! Anyway, Hannah would know.
Parental Influence and Apologies
01:27:24
Speaker
Not my voice.
01:27:26
Speaker
ah but Something had mentioned in 16.5. There's ah the there's a thing about, ah you know, she has like twice now essentially given the villains what they want.
01:27:40
Speaker
through these back-to-back concessions. And those are like core tenets of a Carol upbringing that we've mentioned multiple times. What do the villains want?
01:27:52
Speaker
Let them not have that. Like, it's not about winning the fight. It's about making sure that they can't get what they want.
01:28:00
Speaker
And like twice in a row, we've had to let them have that. Get mocked by mockument. Like, all of this on the back of... you know Ashley's death.
01:28:10
Speaker
It is just, like you said, it is not winning time right now. When has it ever been winning time? Oh, great. Now Beckford's doing roly-polies.
01:28:22
Speaker
The roly-poly boy. But he's on my hand and the keyboard. That's the problem. He's clicking buttons that he shouldn't. He's going to see the camera disconnect again. yeah.
01:28:35
Speaker
Cameron's going to work again, actually. Yeah, he turns it on. Turns back on. Yeah, yeah.
01:28:45
Speaker
ah Please get comfortable. Anything else pre-heartbroken? Yeah, is it is it here in this conversation with Kenzie when they're waiting on ah on um Natalie to pick them up, where she says something, maybe it's earlier, but Alan, you bringing up Carol reminded reminded me of it, but she says something to Kenzie and then realizes that like that's a very Carol thing to say in terms of like how she was raised and... I can't remember exactly what it was, but it stuck out with me because she immediately, she does something that I think is very underrated, is that she immediately like apologizes and she was like, no, that's not something I should have put on you. I'm really sorry. And I think that
01:29:29
Speaker
Like, in general, as adults, like, we make kids apologize all the time. Like, okay, say you're sorry. Say you'll forgive them. Okay, now hug it out. Okay, good. But it's like, we don't, I don't think that same lesson tends to fall on adults as much. And adults make mistakes, too, just as much, if not more than kids. But because, you know, we...
01:29:51
Speaker
have this pride sense and like, oh, well, I'm an authority figure in this conversation that I get to, you know, I get to be right here. But I like that Victoria, again, I can't remember if it's here in this conversation with Kenzie, but she she realizes immediately that she's done something that Carol would do.
01:30:06
Speaker
And she winds it back and she's like, no, no, actually, I'm sorry. i shouldn't have said that. yeah that wasn't right. And I think that's really important to say to kids, to say that you're sorry because they know you're not, you know,
01:30:21
Speaker
infallible like that's yeah yeah I I thought that was really good and I really likes the conversation she has with Kenzie while they're walking like you know Kenzie he started her period and that's really scary as a kid and she doesn't have a mom to talk to about that and it's like oh Kenz you're really going through it this week I'm really sorry babe that sucks You know, for a for a male writer, I feel like Wild Bo handled that conversation surprisingly well.
Handling Sensitive Situations
01:30:51
Speaker
think so too, yeah. That's not a a thing that I would think to include in a story. I think, first of all, just because I am, you know, a man and have not experienced having a period. Yeah.
01:31:06
Speaker
And so the fact that he did and did it, I'd say pretty well was impressive to me. This is a small like writers aside of like, well, night like good include good thing to bring up and pretty well handled. I thought too, overall.
01:31:22
Speaker
I don't know. hannah Hannah? You're the only girl in the group. I mean, I'll be honest. Like, yeah even I would say just because you're, you know, a girl doesn't mean you tend to know how to talk about girl stuff either. Like, it's been a reoccurring theme in my life where I've talked to other women and as we talk about stuff that it's like, oh, man, I've never talked about this with somebody else before. And, you know, regardless of what it might be, it's like,
01:31:44
Speaker
There's stuff, like, even as a girl, where like, well, a lot of girls go through this, but, like, we don't necessarily talk about it. And I think that recognizing that, like, know, when I had my first period, my mom was there. Like, she was an important part of my life, and she is and has always been. And, like, without her, she answered, i mean, she answered a lot of questions that I had at the time, and she was really helpful and...
01:32:05
Speaker
without that it can feel really really scary and like looking at Kenzie like what are who are her role models like who's she learning stuff from well it's it's the the chicken tenders at the moment which is terrible the heartbroken are teaching her terrible things and it's like I oh gosh like she needs a little mom moment here and the fact that she kind of has that little bit with Victoria you know coming off of Victoria making her French toast that morning, which sounds so good. ah Just like is very sweet. It's a sweet little moment together. And ah yeah, i I just I feel so bad for Kenzie. She's.
01:32:43
Speaker
You know, she loses Ashley. She starts her period like, gosh, girls having the worst week of her life. And then she has to go and talk to the heartbroken like, oh, it's about to get a million times worse. Great. Fantastic.
01:32:55
Speaker
Yeah.
01:32:58
Speaker
You haven't had your period yet, Nick?
01:33:02
Speaker
and Not yet, no. It's just like your Hogwarts invitation. It's in the mail. It's in the mail, yeah. Yeah.
01:33:13
Speaker
Get that checked. Be like, you know, there's something about like in the female, but you know, we'll, we'll, we'll work out. a few open likes we'll We'll take some notes. We'll figure it out.
Societal Reactions and Personal Anecdotes
01:33:26
Speaker
Yep.
01:33:26
Speaker
and I'm resisting the temptation to say too many gross things. I'll, I'll not say what I'm thinking. what I'll show restraint for once. Yeah, I'll show restraint for once. Shall I? no one I appreciate that. Thank you. This is what you're going to show restraint on? Once a year. I feel like period jokes go a little bit too far. there something he's got one yeah how Does blood make you uncomfortable? no Does your uterus crying make you uncomfortable? Threading itself to bits?
01:34:02
Speaker
It's more like more like joking about why I've bled down there before. my god. See, I'll just see. I told you. i told you. It's worse than I expected.
01:34:19
Speaker
So much worse. All right. yeah Usually happens after too much Taco Bell fire sauce. Hey-ho. Oh my god. Anyways, restraint gone. That wasn't good. It's okay.
01:34:32
Speaker
It could have been worse. um Don't want to forget too, Kenzie mentions she has two crushes. um It's clearly Darlene and Aiden. Is it Darlene? is that Yeah, Darlene and Chicken. I assumed, yeah. yeah But of course with her, it's hard to tell difference between a crush yeah and a just normal feelings, I think, right? And a deep desire to be close to people.
01:35:00
Speaker
Yeah, yeah, yeah. yeah what But it's, you know, she has that for a lot of people, and I think she specifically has it for these people, so like, she probably knows the difference, but also, yeah, it's...
01:35:18
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah.
01:35:23
Speaker
Kenzie, of course, is going to definitely be a pan-romantic person. Yeah. Yes. Like, even if they don't have a personality, they could be a stuffed animal and Kenzie probably... They could be a literal pan.
01:35:38
Speaker
Yeah, a literal pan and Kenzie would have a strong social relationship with that person, with that pan.
01:35:47
Speaker
I'll always love you, Kenzie. I'm literally a cast iron pan. but Oh, what what's the... Do you listen to me so much?
01:35:58
Speaker
Fridge-chan. Oh, my God. Refrigerator-senpai, no. That's what it was. Lamp-coon. Lamp-coon. Ah,
01:36:12
Speaker
ah truly the inspiration for date everything I'm sure somebody saw that skit and was like wait that's a great idea me do something ah do we want to move into the standoff now Yeah, yeah. For the standoff. oh yes This was some tension. Wow-wee. I love setting the scene where they're just driving in and Kinsey rolls down the window and says hey to the giant dog running alongside the car.
01:36:44
Speaker
Fantastic. That's all the friends you can get right now. the I think one of the moments that stood out the most to me was...
01:36:56
Speaker
victoria pushing with her aura and it just like washing over them like they don't even notice and she's like oh i' i'm useless here like if without actually fighting them can't do anything um because you know they've been emotionally traumatized and dead inside because of their dad who was an emotion power user so yeah yeah yeah Chat, is it wrong to completely invade the privacy of your teammates asking for a friend?
01:37:27
Speaker
Thank you, J-Man. ah Yeah. Yeah. Oof. Yeah. do you Do you guys feel like Kinsey's justification is really slim for digging into everything?
01:37:40
Speaker
and yeah It's not good. It's bad. It's not good. Yeah. yeah Oh, yeah. No.
Privacy Invasion and Character Development
01:37:44
Speaker
yeah i will I will say, I went into it very much being on her side of like, you know, she she found it accidentally. Like, I do tend to give her the benefit of the doubt for a lot of things. And then she starts to explain it, and I realize like, oh, oh no, no, no. She has no good reasoning here. Like, she she did not need to. And this kind of like mentality of like, Well, but no, I wanted to make sure that like, no, no, a hard line was set.
01:38:09
Speaker
And you came up with so with reasons for why you you you thought you should, you know, dive into it. And it's one of those things where like, it wasn't vital to what we needed right now. It could have waited. You could have said, hey, I found the files. I didn't look.
01:38:28
Speaker
glance through here and see what's, what's true and what isn't. and We can, you know, clear this up. But like, she went in and looked anyways. And, oh, that's such an invasion. Like, oh, Kenzie, no. Like, god damn, we were doing so good. And of course she got her feelings hurt. Of course she did. Like, oh, man.
01:38:49
Speaker
So much worse than I thought it was. Yeah. Yeah. I, uh, I honestly, the standoff freaking loved this whole thing. And, um, I'll, I'll beat Jacob the cinephile punch here, but it feel felt like, uh, is it wind river?
01:39:07
Speaker
um No spoilers, but there is a very tense ah standoff scene near the end of that movie. And holy cow.
01:39:19
Speaker
um I felt that a lot here. We're like everybody's, you know, hand on the power getting ready to shoot. People are standing in between people. People are quickly like flipping sides.
01:39:29
Speaker
um Yeah. ah You know, it it even kicks off a little. hmm. o Yeah. A little scary.
01:39:41
Speaker
it I really like the way this is written and how it goes down. um it it needed to happen like seven or eight arcs earlier for me. Yeah. like It just feels like this is... like Kenzie's introduced to us as...
01:40:00
Speaker
as someone who was kicked off their prior team for invasion of privacy. And that's like, that's been her thing. And to have her still not overcoming that, where how many words into the story now?
01:40:18
Speaker
Like, it's a little frustrating at this point. Like, where does, what, what's her arc? What I'm, cause this, I mean, you know, we talk a lot about the themes in Ward, and and Alan, I think, has nailed it with that this kind of theme of, like, belonging and and, like, identity and self and all this kind of stuff. And it just feels like... It felt it felt like Kenzie's arc was her... her... you know, appreciating boundaries and finding a family and settling in. Like, that feels like where her story should end is somewhere in that realm.
01:40:53
Speaker
And... even though they forgive her at the end here, she hasn't, has she learned her lesson? No. Like, no, she hasn't.
01:41:03
Speaker
And it just is like, we we don't have a lot of time left. Where's your story going? It's just a little frustrating. Like, I wish this exact interaction happened because i again, I like the way it's written a lot. I really like this confrontation.
01:41:17
Speaker
I just wish it happened like halfway through the story. This feels like a halfway point for Kenzie's journey. And I'm, I'm, worried it about what's left for her at this point.
01:41:31
Speaker
Yeah, I, to be honest, I'm, like, it's true that kids bounce back. A lot. But, like, people hold grudges. And the fact that we've just forgiven her so quickly feels incredibly disingenuous. And, like, obviously, they're probably doing a bit of masking and pretending like things are okay in order to, you know, make her feel better, knowing that we all just lost important people in our lives. We lost Samuel.
01:42:00
Speaker
We lost Ashley. Like, it's a bad, it's a it's a tough time. And, like, i i I agree. Like, having a ah moment where she's, you know, she's made a mistake again and could potentially lose this family, like, it feels like something that should happen earlier. And then they forgive her so quickly. it doesn't feel like there are really any consequences again other than...
01:42:26
Speaker
They were mad at her for a second. We had all of that tension, which felt really great in the moment. And, you know, powers are getting used. um Natalie takes a face plant because she gets powers used on her. Like, and I think especially after the conversation we just had in the car, you know, about powers and the use of powers. And I'm sure that was very scary for her. And then we're coming off of that where they're all sitting in the backseat and they're ha ha ha laughing in the parrot and wah blah, blah, blah, blah. And it's like,
01:42:53
Speaker
Guys, that was a very serious thing that just happened. Why are we already moving past it so quickly? Like, I know kids. Kids hold fucking grudges. 12-year-olds? I held on to shit for years when I was 12, and I just, you know, didn't tell people.
01:43:10
Speaker
but But, like, I wasn't friends with them five minutes later, for damn sure. Like, that it just felt... Yeah. like Lifelong enemies are made in that age group. And you end for stuff far less severe. but Yes. You know, you cut in front of me at lunch.
01:43:27
Speaker
We're never speaking again. See, i have the opposite part where like, as Fran points out, the heartbroken are used to doing horrible things to each other.
01:43:38
Speaker
It's just sort of like the price you pay. And in this case, they just were like, hey, We, we've you know, she did do this. She's sorry. This would hurt chicken if you did physically harm her.
01:43:55
Speaker
Like, are they going to get past this? You know, i this is something just have to learn to work through. But also for kids, like i always go back to my sister and her best friend growing up.
01:44:10
Speaker
were best friends because they both said that they could take each other and then went up in the hill and but like in the woods and got into a fight to see who could take the other and then came out with like hair and blood all over their face. And my parents and her parents were like, you know, separate them, take to the house and be like, what happened? They're like, Oh, my best friend. And that was their first meeting. Like these two girls just like,
01:44:39
Speaker
That's such a new family thing to happen. It's the most my sister thing. was about to say, it's the most. If you've ever had it, that is the team. That's hilarious. That's hilarious. That checks out. That's how they started.
01:44:52
Speaker
oh Yeah. ah checks out and and you know that it's a yeah that's how they start it so um Lord. You know. third Yeah.
01:45:06
Speaker
Sometimes you just like, I don't know, as a kid, you you're very...
01:45:14
Speaker
Flexible is not the word. like ah youre you You bounce back. youre I don't want to say malleable. You've got a short memory. Plastic. Pliable. Malleable. Yeah. yeah i like I'm thinking of like plasticity. like Even with like neuroplasticity. like You're just...
01:45:32
Speaker
You can form and bounce and rebound and things that you're not going to think too deeply about because like, yeah, this hurt now. And you don't think about the greater implications for the rest of your life. Like this person doing a thing like that.
01:45:49
Speaker
Like you go, yeah. Yeah, I accept your apology. And you know what? I've been told that when you apologize and you mean it, you say you're sorry, like
Grudges, Forgiveness, and Childhood
01:45:59
Speaker
you mean it. And we all try to do better.
01:46:02
Speaker
And it's just, you know, and that is gone. And it's that simple sometimes as a kid. Sometimes it's not. Sometimes you're going that forever. Sometimes you're Hannah.
01:46:16
Speaker
Listen, I learned at a very young age that I was a really good liar and that if you looked them in the eye and you said, I'm so sorry, and you acted like you meant it, you could hold that grudge for so much longer and they would never know. And then you could do little things to destroy their life and steal their Barbies and absolutely Oh, yeah. No. My Barbie collection. Truth. Tonight on, is my podcast co-host a psychopath? Yeah. See, Hannah, I had a much more moral take, which is I refused to say I was sorry unless I was actually sorry. And that got me in a lot of trouble. That's... Because I was like, you you're wanting me to lie, which is just as big of a sin as, like, yeah the thing I did, which I don't think I was in the wrong, but whatever. So, like,
01:47:09
Speaker
yeah And now you're forcing me to lie. So like, who's really wrong here? I remember having a similar conversation with my sister where she was like, I don't feel like I should have to say I'm sorry because I'm not sorry and I don't want to lie. And I was like, but lying's the best part. though You get to lie now.
01:47:25
Speaker
Now you get to lie. They're telling you to lie. reward you for the lie.
01:47:35
Speaker
incredible Also, the car drive after the fight was like 20 minutes later, which is weeks in wartime. I know. They've forgotten about it with their goldfish brains. Exactly. With their wormnesia.
01:47:54
Speaker
Yeah, Dave Calvert, Nisha. And ah also Rachel shows up, albeit brief. Always good to see. Always to see her. I do like that she's part of breaking up the fight where she's like corralling the kids with the giant dogs and it's like, nope, nope, heartbroken. Stop.
01:48:11
Speaker
Nope. be Be better. Behave. Behave. does he hurting Yeah. Yeah. The sheepdogs. She's got a ah ah mutant border collie in there somewhere.
01:48:23
Speaker
yeah Also, I realized, you know, now that it's there, it's been here for a little bit, but I do have a bingo. I have Side Piece, Gross, ah Hannah k Cries, Rachel, and Cat on Screen.
01:48:36
Speaker
There you go
01:48:39
Speaker
Did you just give yourself your own bingo with that Rachel at the end? ah No, I didn't. We also talked about Rachel earlier. We did. We did. We brought up Rachel earlier. I wasn't going to count it before. so I just like that. If I brought it up. but By the way, Rachel, look look at that, a bingo.
01:48:57
Speaker
Exactly. Wouldn't be the first time. Exactly. Chat has definitely instigated you guys early on when we were doing those.
01:49:08
Speaker
Oh, I know. Really? oh you manipulated. We need to make the chat thing to see if they can get you to say certain things by egging you on or asking questions.
01:49:19
Speaker
but yeah You should get a point every time you can call them out for that being a thing. Oh, hell yeah. If they can slip it in, that'll be the new game. If they can slip it in and get you to say specific stuff.
01:49:32
Speaker
Some of your bingo should be, yeah, chat gets you know them to say this or something like that. yeah yeah But they can't catch on. That'll be the rule. They can't catch on if you're doing it. Doesn't count. you Get them to do some certain stuff. it Gets them to say CopaSac.
01:49:48
Speaker
um my god You guys, you guys i was reading another book, a totally separate book, and they had copacetic in it. And I was like, where am I? It feels weird, doesn't it? It feels so odd because I will never look at copacetic the same way again. and it says The first time I ever saw the word of copacetic was Wild Bell.
01:50:10
Speaker
um' I always say this, but I'm ruined by the recess movie because it's in there. right my My brother would quote. We would say it all the time. So but so funny.
01:50:23
Speaker
Very 70s word. Yeah. 16.7. Yeah, we're we're kind of getting in there already. Not as well. as this the Is this the car already? Yeah.
01:50:35
Speaker
This the last one. 16.7.
01:50:40
Speaker
Victoria, Kinsey, Natalie, Chicken, and some of the heartbroken drive and talk about various things. The team convinces Kinsey to remove some of her tinker eyes, and the group gets a picture of the dream room and its guard. Okay, I have a theory about the dream room and the guard creature, but I want to get
Nostalgia and Legacy in Car Ride Conversation
01:51:01
Speaker
to that later. Yeah, we'll do that as a cap-off, because I feel like that's a good place to ask our guesses for what happens next.
01:51:10
Speaker
Yep. Car ride, this is where Taylor gets mentioned a whole bunch, of course, because something we know that Chicken almost says, but then ah one of the heartbroken out members who shushes him is that...
01:51:25
Speaker
we know he is an heir of Taylor's shard, right? Like that's something that, yes yeah and it seems like maybe Victoria doesn't know that because she doesn't catch on to what he's saying, but we catch it. I appreciate that wild bow that we, you give us enough that we catch it as a reminder, since we do know that. feel like I'm in on it.
01:51:46
Speaker
Yeah. You feel like you're in on something, you know, things, right? Um, ills night yeah. Yeah. After being still lost so many times, it feels like a little treat. yeah i did I did love that conversation too of where he's like, I just want you to tell me like tell me about what Rachel was like when she was younger. tell me Tell me about what Taylor... It's like a kid asking about his dead mom is what it feels like. you know it like And she's like is kind of even uncomfortable of like, do you want me? It's not all positive. And he's like, I don't care. They won't tell me much. I just want to know. Yeah.
01:52:22
Speaker
yeah okay is this the taylor or victoria kind of goes into a mental space thinking about capri a little bit too right or am i misremembering that where she's thinking about like briefly yeah i don't think she mentions it to him but it's like in her internal monologue she's like who thinking about capri but i could i could be wrong no i think that's right brief yeah Yeah, it's not it's not long, but... And there's also kind of like this this little bit of nostalgia with the whole talking about Brockton Bay and...
01:52:57
Speaker
then they'll Like the video game, like that's that's a really like fun little nostalgia trip. Like, oh, did you did you know you'd Arms Masters? Like, oh yeah, I know him better as Defiant now. I talked to him this morning. It's like, not that was this morning. Like, okay. But that's just really, it's really fun to kind of revisit, you know, our, the old world as it were.
01:53:21
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah.
01:53:26
Speaker
Makes me a little homesick, you know?
01:53:31
Speaker
Yeah. It it was good to good to hear again.
01:53:41
Speaker
Yeah. um um Thoughts on Kenzie's millions of eyes and stuff and overheating herself?
01:53:52
Speaker
Oh, well for mck kenzie i love I love the idea that she's turning her brain into like a computer hard drive that's overheating because she's like you have a fever and she's like no I just have too much hardware in there and I'm like Kenzie no dont damn it no it's it's like her being like you know when she pulls the eye out except you know that she's like pulling out like 10 feet of tubing yeah she's like oh there's one and they're like one of how many yeah How many ghost tubes you got shoved in that head?
01:54:25
Speaker
my gosh. I think it's Kenzie. One of them says has like a little bit of a chilling line where it's like, da-da-da, if I'm alive that long, or something like that.
01:54:37
Speaker
Yeah, I think Kenzie says that. I think it's Kenzie. um But it made me think about, because we had talked about that, I don't know, a couple of arcs to ago, right? Where it's like, wow, wait, capes really don't live that long.
01:54:48
Speaker
And then with the context or everything else, it's... i wouldn't I would hate it. I hope she doesn't die because already told you guys I hate deaths um and they're stupid. But, man, it it feels like Kenzie is working herself to death. and it's Yeah. Yeah.
01:55:06
Speaker
It's getting scary. there's There's this feeling, i think... with her that we've seen multiple times and it it makes me really nervous. Every time Victoria kind of has like this mental, um like a little fight with herself in her head, she's like weighing the odds of like, well, we we do like, this isn't healthy for Kenzie, but we do need this right now. Like,
01:55:31
Speaker
I guess we'll allow it with a couple parameters, but like after this is all over, got to, you know, crack down again. And the thing is, is that it keeps happening and keeps happening.
01:55:44
Speaker
And it's like, it's one of those things where like, you know, you carry you're you're carrying your plate in one hand and your glass in the other and you can't open the door and you're like oh man, if only I had one more arm. And like the thought of like, okay, well, if you keep doing and you have eight arms, at one point at some point you're going to go, oh man, I wish I had one more arm, even though you have 10.
01:56:02
Speaker
Like you it's it's that thing, it's like it's never going to be enough processing power. It's never going to be enough projects. It's never going to be enough saving the world. Like Kenzie is trying to fill...
01:56:15
Speaker
a hole in her heart from all of the tragedy in her life with being needed. And, you know, she's feeling very vulnerable right now and she wants to be helpful and she's trying to fill that void. And it's like, because we really do need her help,
01:56:33
Speaker
there are these allowances being made. Like, oh, okay. Instead of being like, no, you need to shut down everything, babe. You need to take a break. They're like, i guess you can shut down, you know, one in and three. And she's like, no, I need them. Like, okay, well, I guess you can keep two, three, and four. It's like, No, no, no, no. Our girl is running a low-grade fever right now. sure Her favorite person just got ganked. Like, we need to we need to unplug this poor girl, and she needs to have a week in the woods at Aunt Rachel's farm for a little bit. Like, it doesn't matter if the world's burning down. The girl needs a break.
01:57:09
Speaker
Yeah, 100%. hundred percent Yeah. yeah The eye stalks in the brain are is giving mannequin vibes to me. Yes. oh my God. Yes. The body modification. It's giving me defiant defiant vibes as well for sure you know like it's okay i've removed the part of me that needs to sleep like i don't yeah think i need sleep the problem the problem now that i foresee with uh her being friends with defiant is they're gonna be like kinsey you need to slow down like take some of those out of your brain your brain's overheating he's in defiance just gonna be back oh your brain's overheating i can fix that we just egg out your brain wait no
01:57:48
Speaker
Wait, no. Hang on. Defiant Dragon would not be good parents. maybe. not like and thought ah Let's just put your brain in a jar.
01:58:03
Speaker
Give you a better one. a Attached to it. Yeah. yeah they The concept, i can't remember what it's officially called, but we're talking about um when we gave cars more safety features.
01:58:19
Speaker
we drove them faster. yeah Yeah. And when we gave football players better helmets and padding and gear, they threw themselves harder at each other.
01:58:32
Speaker
Right. Exactly. And it's one of those things is like, just because you give the buffer room doesn't mean that they're, that means they're just going to use all the empty space. It doesn't mean they're going to least leave that as a buffer. Yeah.
01:58:47
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. yeah box Boxing injuries went up when, but when the gloves were introduced. Yeah. More injuries afterwards. yeah Yeah. There's a, there's a bunch of weirds. It's the same thing with like, we're talking about rugby, you know, we're like, because yeah you, you know, rugby does have a lot of injuries, but because you have no pads, ah you have to be careful of how you hit somebody else because it's a safety thing for both of you.
01:59:13
Speaker
Right. Those just throwing yourself them. Yeah.
01:59:20
Speaker
um Yeah.
Speculative Theories on Dream Room
01:59:22
Speaker
Well, then we get a picture, a little picture of the dream room. Yeah. Here's here's my my theory here, right? okay what i Can I say the line?
01:59:31
Speaker
The best line? Yeah, i good yeah. Hey, tip of the iceberg, meet the iceberg. yeah Yes. Great line.
01:59:42
Speaker
Great line. So the dream room appears to be in shard space. And this seems to be their plan, right, is to try to figure out a way to infiltrate shard space like Teacher is going to, or was going to, and trying to maybe use that to manipulate powers in some way.
02:00:05
Speaker
So, we know that the entities are multiverse-spanning creatures that... sort of defy laws of time and space in some ways.
02:00:17
Speaker
And yet, they were spacious enough or in space enough to be defeated by, you know, concentrated attacks on the space that they lived in. My theory is that what we saw is essentially an antibody.
02:00:34
Speaker
inside of shard space like any giant organism has other smaller organisms living inside of it my theory is that inside of the entities in shard space there would have been other multiversal organisms like antibodies living inside coexisting with the entities And that's sort of my theory for what the dream room guard is and why it seems to hover around it because its responsibility is like keeping them contained basically.
02:01:07
Speaker
Interesting. That's my. that's Yeah, that's pretty neat. I don't know if that's what the inspiration was, but that was the vibe I got from it. Yeah.
02:01:20
Speaker
Anybody else have any theories on what it is?
02:01:24
Speaker
Gosh, I i don't freaking know. i It feels kind of mastery. ah So, like, my initial thought was, like, because we, you know, we've had dark segments of the pie, dark pieces of the pie. Like, my thought was that it was...
02:01:41
Speaker
the the master of the group that's maybe had a bit more control than they ever knew, has been kind of watching things, has been kind of, like, been connected, and then in in that way also has been, like, connected more to the Shards than they, you know, ever knew, thought, or gave credit for. So, like, yeah, I don't know. i i'm I'm excited. I don't have too many, like, thoughts moving forward about this, but, like, I'm i'm i'm ready to go. Let's go.
02:02:12
Speaker
Yeah. Very curious. Yeah. I... oh Yeah. um Moving forward, we'll just briefly talk about the naming of the chapter um from within. Mm-hmm.
02:02:30
Speaker
My thoughts on this, that... um
02:02:37
Speaker
that, uh, from within so far, at least just physically yeah, still more physically, like we have had stuff from within pulled out in mockument.
02:02:50
Speaker
Um, And we are now dealing with something that is also very internal um in the shard space, um looking at the thing from within.
02:03:04
Speaker
So um those are my two surface level takes. Nice.
02:03:15
Speaker
I feel like from within sounds like I'm going to be destroyed from within. We're going to be attacked from within. and it feels like somebody we know that's close to us is either secretly working with teacher that is going to sabotage us from the inside or that we're going to, him like the problem was us all along and we're going to start the catalyst. Like we, by poking our nose where we shouldn't belong, we have started, like it has begun from within us. Like our group has, has, you know,
02:03:52
Speaker
the domino that doesn't need to be flicked and ah It makes me so nervous. As soon as I... Because I didn't realize... When I was listening, I wasn't really paying attention to the the title of the arc. And then i think it was chapter two.
02:04:06
Speaker
ah It started in Reigns like, you know, arc 16, from within. I'm like, two words? Two word names? Like, what? yeah yeah What do you mean?
02:04:18
Speaker
and mean Light comes from within. Perhaps a knowledge will come from within. That's such a ah better way to think of it. I'm like, destruction from within.
02:04:33
Speaker
Yeah, as J-Man pointed out, it's interesting. We're going back to Damsel and ah Slashley. or Sorry, Damsel and Swamp Song and their combination of how they are...
02:04:48
Speaker
ah very different people um and how J-Man was skeptical of ah the clone stuff, you know, because in Worm, Slaughterhouse-9000, not exactly ah great stuff, but, you know,
02:05:03
Speaker
the You know, I've seen worse evil clone things going on, clearly. um But it's had great fallout, and it it's gone a variety of directions with, like, the Harbingers, who are all working kind of together, you know, with the one who's kind of a little out of sync. And then with Damsel and Swan Song, they're just both... They like the same things. They...
02:05:30
Speaker
get each other but they are more sisters than twins or actually more sisters than like clones um you know raised in the same way but are two different people um I agree think it's very very well written how they've taken care of the clones so far
02:05:56
Speaker
hmm All right. Well, anything else we want to address ah before we talk about next week or next two weeks?
02:06:11
Speaker
Any favorite powers or I guess hero names? There weren't many new powers, I don't feel. Maybe a non-favorite power. Yeah, true. There's really only the one, i guess, new power. And we were like, nope, not liking that one.
02:06:25
Speaker
I mean we'll talk just talk about the two characters we introduced that I think they got minimal time. And in classic Wild Bill fashion, just some of the coolest characters, both bullet time and Mockument.
02:06:38
Speaker
Like document gets what one, two lines and bullet time gets like a little blip in a, you know, paragraphs here. Both of them are just so cool. There's a couple of other small mentions too, like Trophy Wife is a new one as well, who gets mentioned briefly. Ooh, Trophy Wife. She has the power of powers. Yeah, very very gruesome power, but like takes pieces of things, and if she keeps them close, she inherits.
02:07:05
Speaker
like It's literally like, if you eat the heart of your enemy, you gain his strength. It's a yeah like type of vibe power. If you eat the eagle egg, you will get the eagle powers. yeah Exactly. Exactly. um Just Kirby.
02:07:20
Speaker
Yes. It's Kirby. yeah um And then there's ah there's the Huntsman. I'm trying to remember who they are. They don't really show their abilities off all that much.
02:07:36
Speaker
Yeah. yeah there's um cool Snow White. who's The Snow White one, yeah. Which isn't her name. Backwoods.
02:07:48
Speaker
Is that not her code name? I mean, that's what she's like. I think that's what Victoria calls her because she's like, she looks like Snow White and she has this kind of like Eastern European accent. But then right that's what she never actually. know right But that's not yeah her name.
02:08:05
Speaker
Um, yeah, we've got, um, Backwoods as well, who can kind of do, like, spiky growth with his his little back plants that he makes. Also, Fran, I gotta address this, because I'm just gonna assume you're younger.
02:08:19
Speaker
Maybe this is a misspelling. Maybe this is just because of generational terms. Uh, there is a scene of Scribe mean-mugging Victoria from across the room.
02:08:31
Speaker
Mean-mogging ah maybe means the same thing, um but it's definitely some some Gen Alpha lingo. Or words are the way out of touch. I was going to say, Alan, there is a third option. I was going to say. Am I wrong? no He came in here so hard swinging, but we could oh easily be on the outside of that one. you know maybe Maybe that's what the kids are doing. They're mean-mogging each other. you know Google says they're not the same thing.
02:09:05
Speaker
Okay, so there is a mean mogging. There's mean mogging? But Google's also just not... Wait, what? Not quite sure. Yeah, no, I don't think Google's ever heard of mean mogging. Hit the minus AI. I want to see what Urban Dictionary has to say. Yeah, no. Go away.
02:09:22
Speaker
ah mean all you yeah or yeah that we're going We're coming down too hard on Fran. I am curious. i will I'm happy to learn if mean mogging is a thing, but also i didn't I didn't want to leave somebody who was like, yeah, mean mogging. I was like, oh, oh my brother in Wild Bo. It is not. To be fair, i I did not hear the phrase mean mugging until college, and I don't know if it was just that. Because mean mug Mike?
02:09:49
Speaker
Yeah, exactly. Exactly. That was... Everybody said that all the time. perfectly honest. I never would have known. i If you had told me it was mean mocking this whole time, i would have been like, sure. ah Why not? how how who Who was it that thought it was play it by year?
02:10:06
Speaker
but There's a bunch of stuff like that. I'm sure. Yeah. There's the whole good apple taste. How dare you pull Fran out? Fran knows exactly what they're doing. How dare you? There you go. Yeah.
02:10:19
Speaker
how dare you incredible go yeah yeah Bone apple tea. yeah yeah Bone apple tea, baby. Incredible. well On that note, we have two weeks until we finish ARC 16.
02:10:39
Speaker
ah countdown to the end of Ward Begins. ah We are not that far off. Two weeks ist um is an American holiday.
02:10:52
Speaker
Oh, it is. You're right. holiday It's Memorial Day. Memorial Day. Oh. So I don't... I don't know. just didn't know people... mean, you doing something for Memorial Day?
02:11:04
Speaker
Yeah. as confumer memorial Today Memorial Day, and I give, you know... yeah you Actually, I will be coming back from a family trip that day, I believe. Oh, okay. Okay. okay um That's valid reasoning.
02:11:17
Speaker
Yeah. So you'll be ready. Yeah, yeah. I might be. You'll be missing us. You'll be missing us and ready to talk. we You know what? we can We can play it by year.
02:11:29
Speaker
yeah That's right. and if he If you aren't here, I'll be mean-mogging you, Nick. The whole time. There you go. there you go Me and Baron Zeppeli. I think mean mugging is just what they say mean mugging sexily in my head. yeah You know what they say though, Alan? Hold on, hold on. I'm going do a mean mug. It's worth more than an apple in the tree. Say that again, Nick. I miss what you said. Say it again.
02:11:56
Speaker
it again. Two hands in my bush is worth more than an apple on the tree. you know what I mean? yeah All right. And on that note... um We have been officially canceled. This has been a great last episode of the Rocky Bay Book Club.
02:12:10
Speaker
who Probably, ah maybe, possibly on the 25th in two weeks. and I hope so. awesome We can plan for it and then I'll i'll make it work.
02:12:24
Speaker
I'll make it work. okay Thank you, Nick. That's a sacrifice. It'll be fun. Before we go, I'll read off the ones that we did did get on the bingo. Side piece, Hannah Cries, Rachel, Cat on Screen, Kenzie Might Not Be Great, My Wife, Hate Teacher Hate, Sad for Ashley, The Rules Are Unfair for Capes.
02:12:43
Speaker
The ones we didn't do was Slashley Wasn't Good Enough, Nick Goes Full Teacher Slash Father, Jacob's a Cinephile, Avatar Gets Brought Up, Alan Rantz, ah As someone ask asks about HOSV and somebody does a dumb imp joke.
02:13:01
Speaker
um Nice. HOSV? Yeah, what is HOSV? Oh, ah it's the designation for Brockton Bay um that they were voting on.
02:13:13
Speaker
That's right. yeah yeah but Before they cut water off to the city and stuff like that. Yes, I remember that. because there was I mean, we we had a whole thing about it. Anybody remember what it stands for? outcome. venue No, no, Hannah, you of all people, having watched the movie it comes from oh very recently, no. Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait.
02:13:40
Speaker
oh by way wait way well Jacob should know because he's a cinephile. H-O-S-V? Yes, you designate a place H-O-S-V. Okay, hold on. Hold on.
02:13:56
Speaker
I... Heckin' oatmeal sucky vacuum.
02:14:02
Speaker
ah Nick, you're really close. Yeah, exactly. thank you Thank you. You're really close. If I said it was uttered by the famous Alec Guinness...
02:14:13
Speaker
fuck is Alec Guinness?
02:14:17
Speaker
The actor who played Obi-Wan in Star Wars Episode IV when he points to Luke and says, Mos Eisley, nevermore a hive of scum and villainy.
02:14:27
Speaker
Oh. I don't really know what it stands for in canon. Hive of Scum and Villainy. Hive of Scum. That's stupid name. Nobody would name something. That's so stupid. You got one that's like, you got the Hive of Scum and Villainy. No, they're not Wars fans. I don't believe What nerd ass... Yeah, what bullshit happened before the split? What do you want?
02:14:48
Speaker
no, fuck that. That's hilarious. I refuse to believe it. ah Still going to count. Well... thing Without all that being said, thank you so much to all of you watching. We really appreciate you being here.
02:15:03
Speaker
like are live ah Oh, ah while Bernard, I will follow up on your last question before we leave. But just a special shout out to our patrons. Thank you so much for all this. I'm so excited for us to do this next chapter in a couple weeks. um Once again, you can always follow us on Patreon um and socials. But yeah, subscribe to our Patreon if you haven't before.
02:15:27
Speaker
Give us a shout out. Any comments on our YouTube channel or podcasting things are always appreciated because we love to hear that people are listening and have thoughts. And lastly, to answer your, or to ask your question, Bernard wanted to know, can you think of a cape whose code name would be copacetic and what would their powers be?
02:15:45
Speaker
Copacetic. I think, ah copacetic would be a, um, a what's what's the power classification for an emotion manipulator except they are um they they basically have an aura that's like the friends spell right where it makes people friendly to you it makes people who are aggressive calm it's like they've just got this aura of like um you know hey like hey man, like we're cool, like chill. yeah Everybody's just more receptive.
02:16:19
Speaker
Exactly. Everybody's more receptive. Everybody's more relaxed. you know like you would You would bring them to very tense business meetings or political meetings right where you need everybody to be focused and level-headed. It's kind of what I was thinking. Very simple power, but you know.
02:16:35
Speaker
basically you know a forced peace on the battlefield at times when you need it maybe yeah but you like can't obviously like change over a completely aggressive person yeah like somebody who is you know blood lusted to be too far gone but if if things were tensions were rising or even somebody who was fighting but was like unsure what if they should be fighting it might just relax them enough to yeah get them to rethink what they've done yeah No, that's that's what I was thinking.
02:17:03
Speaker
Just vibing. Just chilling. Pretty good one. All right. Well, without further ado, Michael, do you have a song that you have created? course. Join the Patreon.
02:17:14
Speaker
Please come on in. Join the Patreon. Why don't you just join the Patreon? Become supporters and join the Patreon. Please help.
02:17:31
Speaker
Don't you just join the Patreon. Come on, come on. Say there, big boy. You look like a big spender. So spend all that bulging.
02:17:42
Speaker
Watch on the Patreon for exclusive content.
02:17:49
Speaker
Ooh. Oh my, my, my. My, oh So good. My fucking mind. I know. I need like a 15 minute loop of that song, Michael.
02:18:00
Speaker
We can make it happen. um We'll see you guys. We think on the 25th, keep your eyes posted on the YouTube for when we actually are. And if you're in the discord, let, well, you'll see it there.
02:18:14
Speaker
And we're reading toward the end of this arc. Thanks guys for all the chatting. it was a crazy night, but we had fun. be sure did.
02:18:27
Speaker
new motto. right All right. Bye.