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BBBC Reads Ward - Arc 17.1 - 17.6 - Sundown
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This story isn’t intended for young or sensitive readers. Readers who are on the lookout for trigger warnings are advised to give Worm a pass. Complete list of potential triggers: here
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The Brockton Bay Book Club discusses J.C. McCrae's Ward live! The gang reads a portion of Ward and comes together to share our thoughts with each other and anyone who want's to participate.
This week we cover Arc 17.1 - 17.6 - Sundown
Read along here
Play along with this week's BBBC BINGO while you listen!
Support us and connect with us @brocktonbaybc
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Transcript
Introduction and Welcome
00:00:00
Speaker
Good evening, Mega City. There are giants in the sky. Big, great giants in the sky.
00:00:12
Speaker
Welcome to the Brockton Bay Book
Live Report from Mega City
00:00:14
Speaker
Club. I'm your host, Alan. Joining me, we also have our producer, Michael. Hello.
00:00:24
Speaker
ah fellow book reading co-host, Jacob. Hello. Joining us live from Mega City, we have a Nick. Hello there. It's pretty rough out here, Alan.
00:00:38
Speaker
i Just giants wandering everywhere. Nothing like being at crotch height for something that big, let me tell you.
Book Discussion: Ward by J.C. McRae
00:00:45
Speaker
I bet it's swinging low, sweet chariot. And like a poorly raised Victorian child, ah not seen but heard, Hannah.
00:00:57
Speaker
It's me. yeah Poor Victorian child. Yes.
00:01:04
Speaker
Well, thank you for joining us tonight. We are reading through Ward by J.C. McRae. If you want to join along, do this every week. And ah today we'll be reading the first half of 17 of Ward.
00:01:22
Speaker
Very exciting. Um... we are always happy to have ah those of you who join us live every other week. But for those of you who are listening via audio or just watching video later on, thank you so much.
Engagement and Interactive Games
00:01:35
Speaker
um It's nice to have people reading along with us. So, ah To begin, ah yes, thank you, J-Man and Tree Tea for being here.
00:01:47
Speaker
ah We appreciate it And let's get started. um if you also oh other things I'm rambling on. you want to play bingo with us, ah we have bingo in the description.
00:01:59
Speaker
You can play live and you can contribute to in our Patreon, which you can join for as little as dollar month.
Playful Banter and Future Plans
00:02:06
Speaker
I'd like suggest especially since I have plans for a Wormnesia bit a game show that I'm excited to play. a And guess what? You don't get to see it if you're not a patron.
00:02:19
Speaker
Oh, We didn't exclude people, Ellen. That sounds so mean. I'll exclude everybody. I'll make this for myself. I don't care. Heard it here first, folks.
00:02:30
Speaker
I'll do it again. and will exclude everyone. He'll do it. Unless you're a patron. And then you get all kinds of fun goodies. Yeah. Some of you probably don't even know. Nick, what are you wearing?
00:02:42
Speaker
Ah, yes. I've got... Let's see it. ah Describe it grab it for the yeah for the audio listeners. I am wearing a classic t-shirt.
00:02:55
Speaker
It is a um Goodwill treasure find. What color is the t-shirt? It is a black gray-ish, like a dark black. Athletic-y material?
00:03:06
Speaker
Yeah, athletic-y. Not quite athletic-y, classic, but soft t-shirt material. Like cotton? 100% cotton, maybe? Probably cotton. It's got a nice image on the front. It's got and um really yes a a crisp image of Dr. Phil as the green M&M.
00:03:23
Speaker
does Does Dr. Phil as the green M&M look very much like yourself, Nick? You know, some some would say that I, too, have identified as the sexiest of candies.
00:03:40
Speaker
Yeah. Also, just the way he has his hands right in front of him, you know, going back to the Giants, looks like he's just covering the fact that he is not wearing anything. His hands clasped firmly at least. None whatsoever.
00:03:54
Speaker
yeah i'd like to I'd also like to clarify once again, that this is the hands clasped with the lack of pants is on the t-shirt, not Nick. Nick is wearing pants for the podcast. whoa were okay i mean but We don't know that, to be fair. next time We don't know.
00:04:12
Speaker
um I'm sorry. I was trying to defend Nick. i will do so no longer. yeah nick Nick, go ahead. Just stand up for us. yeah Do I need to do like little spin around for the camera? Hang on. I'll spin around for the camera. little twirl.
00:04:26
Speaker
Oh, oh, oh. The blue jeans. He decided to do some hip thrusts up in order to demonstrate that he was in fact wearing pants, um which is crazy because he was doing this on the streets of the mega city. um So I'm sure all the people fleeing the giants ah well had a nice show to see on the way. Beefaroni, thank you for joining us. It's been a while since we've seen you. We're glad to have you back.
00:04:54
Speaker
Oh yeah. First part of arc
Mixed Reactions to Ward
00:04:56
Speaker
17. How about that? Uh, let's get some initial thoughts. Hannah, like the ghost of a podcast past you are, I can hear your gentle whisperings over the wind. Why don't you give us your thoughts?
00:05:14
Speaker
I actually have some very mixed thoughts for this first half. ah There are definitely sections that I felt like I was leaning in, very interested to see what happens next. And then there were sections that I felt were quite slow and boring um and just found myself, you know, waiting to get to the more interesting parts.
00:05:36
Speaker
um Overall, I mean, I feel like we are moving in a direction that I like, especially with that ending. Wow. ah We're happy to get it. The finish, you might say. A happy ending?
00:05:52
Speaker
A happy ending, if you will. I am i yeah i i think i think we're we're finally getting into that nitty-gritty that I care so much about. um But there was...
00:06:04
Speaker
Yeah, there's ah just a lot of things happening. So I i feel a little torn as a as a general feeling towards this these chapters. But I do like that we're finally getting down into the meat and potatoes of this story. It feels like we've kind of been floating for so long.
00:06:23
Speaker
ah You know, so i'm I'm, you know, I'm feeling i'm feeling good. I'm feeling i'm excited to to hear y'all's thoughts on this and talk for some more details. So I feel like There were definitely sections where I was like, am I missing something? I feel like they're trying to make this conversation out to be really important, and I don't get what's so important about it. So it's like, okay, well, whatever. So I'm looking forward to talking about it with you guys today.
00:06:48
Speaker
Let's go. Yeah. Yeah. We feel that. ah Nick? Yeah, I'm definitely with Hannah, with you there, Hannah, on... kind of the ups and downs where I'm like, oh, this is interesting.
00:07:02
Speaker
This is far less interesting. This is a cool character moment. Okay, now it's boring again. Like, it's it feels like we have, like, punctuated really interesting or good moments, either character moments, conversations, lore bits, and then it's just kind of punctuated with I don't know, a lot of waiting. It it feels like ah the catchphrase hurry up and wait, where it's like there's just a lot of like, oh, something big's about to happen.
00:07:28
Speaker
OK, now we just got to wait. I don't know. um Pros and cons, ah but definitely some. Some interesting moments here that are worth talking about for sure. Yeah, yeah, Jacob. Yeah, I think I'm in I think I'm in a kind of an ah alignment here. um Sections where I'm locked in, sections where I'm not.
00:07:50
Speaker
ah Up and down, back and forth. Some interesting plot ah choices that were made that I know we'll get into. So I'm curious what everyone's thinking.
00:08:05
Speaker
Yeah. It does, to add on to that too, it does feel like these these are the kind of chapters where like, the people who read way between the lines to find out like all the hints and drops that wild bow is making about what's going to come or what's going to
Second Trigger Events and Shard Space
00:08:22
Speaker
happen. These feel like those chapters where if I'd had like hours to comb through them, I'd be like, oh but you see where he, where he'd said this, this is implying this. And if you connect it back to something back in 11, two and in six, 12, and it's like, okay, you know, it felt like those kinds of chapters, not, but not in a bad way either. Just like,
00:08:41
Speaker
there's a lot going on with that. Yeah. Yeah. I, uh, I, I, agree. There's some parts and yet I've blocked out a lot of the boring parts in my head because it, it, you know, did the little ripple of like interesting, boring, interesting, boring.
00:08:59
Speaker
Um, feel like there were more high notes for, for me with the interesting stuff. Um, I definitely blew through some of the chapters where i was like, all right, now for chapter four. And I was like finishing chapter six. I was like, oh, oh, I didn't even realize I'd started two other chapters in the meantime. Cause it just kinda like went by. I was locked in, I guess.
00:09:22
Speaker
Um, But yeah, it's it's emblematic of Wildbow writing where some of it's the most hard-hitting character dialogue you've ever had and it's super interesting and can be abstract. And then all of that same stuff just dips into esoteric and you're like, all right, we... This is kind of... This is really... We we could have done a fade to black and transitioned to some other scene for this. um Boring.
00:09:52
Speaker
But yeah.
00:09:55
Speaker
That being said, let's go ahead and dig into this. Nick, kick us off. All righty. 17.1. Defiant chews out the team individually.
00:10:07
Speaker
Breakthrough and most of the others agree to cooperate with the Wardens. And Victoria confronts her mother about manpower.
00:10:17
Speaker
Which, uh, throwing... Okay, whoever wrote these summaries, why why you gotta throw in his codename at the end? Like... but What's his name? neal bloodier named Neil? i guess. i mean yeah. It is a lot sluttier.
00:10:29
Speaker
Manpower.
00:10:33
Speaker
Anyways, we'll get to that at the end. um this I can't decide if this felt like cop defiant or dad defiant moments. I think it kind of depended on who he was talking to where it felt more cop or more dad.
00:10:47
Speaker
um But particularly the dad moment felt like when Dragon like took over Kinsey stuff and was like shutting everything down and he's like, all right, everybody listen to me.
00:10:59
Speaker
Victoria's like, you need to talk to Kinsey. And he's like, all right, Kinsey, let me clarify. What
Victoria's Identity Struggles
00:11:04
Speaker
do you mean? Please stop everything you're doing. Yeah. Pull the cameras out of your eyes.
00:11:10
Speaker
but Turn, turn off your constant stream to Twitter where you're constantly live tweeting everything happening.
00:11:21
Speaker
So, Kenzie cracks me up. Yeah. She has a line in this chapter where she's where Defiance says something to the effect of like, you know, are you still recording or something? at you And I'm butchering it, but he gives it the answer as like, well, not anymore or something like that. It's just great. it's like Classic Kenzie. Yeah.
00:11:43
Speaker
I love the, like, are you still in contact with your computers after I told you to not have contact with your computers? And she's like, well, I have sensors in my eyes. And he's, does that count? He's like, no contact with your computers.
00:11:58
Speaker
That's just great. I love it. He's such a dad. He's such a dad there. yeah It's great. Yeah. Yeah. I want more dad. dad moments from him mom and what does that feel mom and mom and dad defiant and dragon yes 100 it feels like defiance best piece of tinker tech is his lie detector
Defiant's Character Analysis
00:12:18
Speaker
yes but does he's got the most in the sharp stick like oh you're lying you get the sharp stick yeah exactly yeah exactly um
00:12:33
Speaker
Yeah, it's it's fantastic. But what i love is how it works is it's the ah part of it is like a confidence thing, right? So when Dragon's talking to Victoria about it and she's like, i yeah what does she say? She's like, i am Victoria Dallin and Dragon's like, ooh, not too confident on that one.
00:12:56
Speaker
Versus like, I want to protect the city. It's like, okay, yeah, that's 100%. Okay, good. I'm glad we have a good baseline. Exactly. oof Yeah. Yeah. um Especially, i feel like Victoria says that a couple of times in these chapters, ah the whole um being made of cats and dogs and other things, it makes that line of like, I am Victoria Dallin hit even harder. Just like, Earl does not even believe she is herself. like Yeah. Snips and some snails and puppy dog tails.
00:13:29
Speaker
what For reals.
00:13:34
Speaker
Yeah. um But part of it, it seems like, and this is maybe and interpolating from the future chapters, but part of the reason for that is because she's way more in tune with her agent now, or the wretch, at least. Yes. So she's like, yeah that lack of confidence in part comes from her fractured identity as a Glory Girl and Tari's Victoria, Wretch, just all being a part of who she is and that confusion that comes with it.
00:14:06
Speaker
Have they, has it been explained? is this warm ninja? Who knows? I can't remember. Um, is like, like having a second trigger or something like that, or, or multiple triggers.
00:14:17
Speaker
Is that just the, the shard or the agent just taking more control over the person? Is there a correlation there? or am I just not remembering something correctly? from what I understand, the second trigger is a quick adaptation of their powers to the person.
00:14:41
Speaker
So, you know, there's that adaptation of the power to the situation, to the person's ah personality and mental state at the point that, you know, they trigger. That's all connected, and it kind of molds to that.
00:14:54
Speaker
um But there is more power going on there just molds to with that situation in the mindset. A second trigger is essentially that
00:15:05
Speaker
get them getting more power um by needing it sort of. So when you talk about grew like grew is, you know, in the meat locker, whatnot, um,
00:15:19
Speaker
they you know he second triggers because he needs the he needs the power again. um And in his physical state at the time, he wasn't capable of doing using the power, and the power wants to get used.
00:15:34
Speaker
um So oftentimes, that they talk about having the second trigger events all in a row, ah that can happen all at once, or that people probably just slowly develop powers over time.
00:15:49
Speaker
um you know, the power creep of like, oh, I figured this out. I've gotten more in tune with it. ah That's just Weaver, you know, all of a sudden, like being able to like, oh, I can also hear and talk through my bugs and sort of see if I've got enough information.
00:16:04
Speaker
um So i think I think those are your two options or getting it all at once or just developing it over time. Okay.
00:16:19
Speaker
It does feel like her ah her connection or her wretch is getting stronger. Or she's got control over it. Oh, yeah. It's hard to know, right? Because all the second triggers we've seen have been quick momentary adaptations like the Gruen.
00:16:36
Speaker
it i wouldn't be surprised, though, if you could almost classify her transformation as a second trigger, just in the sense that the Wretch and her power adapted to um to her new state.
00:16:53
Speaker
And so it gives her now a different ability, different control, different powers in a sense. um It's not so tightly wound to, tightly bound to just her, right? She's got now this force field that can grab and attack that
Character Relationships and Humor
00:17:08
Speaker
way. So it's it's like almost, it's like a one and a half trigger.
00:17:13
Speaker
Yeah, I wonder if we could, if there's a difference between, like, triggering, if a second trigger has people have the vision, you know? Because I don't know if we got that through second trigger. They didn't have the vision. No, I don't know. They didn't have the flat. i do Well, I feel like that is a great question.
00:17:32
Speaker
somebody Somebody in the chat let us know if they had the trigger vision. Hmm. yeah Okay, Fran says I think the second triggers also come with trigger visions. I think so, too. because I think that, you know what, that was part of it, right? Because Gru stunned somebody and got their healing power because of the trigger yeah vision.
00:17:53
Speaker
Yeah, maybe. Yes, I think so. But the big thing that I remember is we also have somebody who has an adapted power like that, which is Elijah. Yeah.
00:18:04
Speaker
our Valfour, who having lost his eyes, which was the thing that he needed do yeah you know hypnotize people, um he now can just do it auditorily.
00:18:16
Speaker
God, I had no idea who you were talking about when you gave his legal name. I was like, who is that? Yeah, damn.
00:18:26
Speaker
Yeah, but yeah, that's true. We have had adaptations like that. um yeah so I don't know, it's it's an interesting thing.
00:18:35
Speaker
Okay, Beefaroni says, c Scion made someone second trigger, and through that vision made everyone see how hopeless it was to fight against them because of how large. Okay. All right, that makes sense. So the second triggers do come with those visions.
00:18:49
Speaker
Interesting. interest This is why we love the chat.
00:18:54
Speaker
Chat comes in clutch every time. Yeah, we can keep them around for another episode, I guess. Yeah. There go.
00:19:01
Speaker
Yeah, so this is kind of an interesting, then we get the we get the deal from Defiant where he's like, basically, we can either treat you as hostiles and withdraw support from you and you can keep doing whatever you want, or you can promise to cooperate with us and we'll, you know, continue to work with you, but kind of take you take you and your stuff captive, so to speak, for a bit to keep an eye on you.
00:19:26
Speaker
And thank thank goodness they decided to cooperate with the wardens. I'm like, okay, that's obviously the right choice here, right? And I was really afraid they'd be like, no, we're going to do our own thing. We'll figure this out and just keep screwing everything up.
00:19:40
Speaker
yeah I thought they were going to split the party. Like, I thought they were going to have yeah tenders basically as a way for Kenzie to keep her tech. Yeah. But I'm, I'm kind of the little moment there with, you know, because Kenzie's like, i don't know, what do I do?
00:19:55
Speaker
And Tattletail's like, well, if you did split, then you could keep your tech because otherwise they're going to take it away from you. And, you know, Kenzie kind of looks at Victoria, but Victoria doesn't say anything. And she's like, yeah, I'm not going to say it for I'm not going to make her decisions for her. And Tattletail's like, yeah, but you shouldn't do that. Yeah.
00:20:13
Speaker
Victoria's like, God damn it. God damn it. Tattletail, shut your mouth. I just thought that was great. You know, at the same time, I can appreciate Victoria's perspective of like, let Kinsey make her own decisions. But also, maybe this isn't the right time. You know, you let your kids make their own decisions with like small things first.
00:20:32
Speaker
This doesn't feel like the time to let Kinsey make her decisions. not small potatoes. Right.
00:20:39
Speaker
So, ah yeah. Yeah. yeah i mean
00:20:45
Speaker
It goes full dad in the chat. we think... Do we just get one of those for the bingo? What?
00:20:52
Speaker
Do we actually... That feels like a dad moment. Does it? Okay. I was going to say Tattletail feels like a... Tattletail would absolutely be a helicopter mom, I think.
00:21:04
Speaker
she would Because she would know too much. She'd be everybody's helicopter mom. Exactly. It's one of those cargo helicopters. but know Or the sky crane. Exactly.
00:21:22
Speaker
i was going ask, could we think Victoria's real daddy is?
00:21:28
Speaker
ah I'm going to go with Annalise. I was going to say, answered in.6, of course. Oh, my God. nice ah I mean, i don't know. I feel like her mom was pretty like, okay.
00:21:48
Speaker
Brain injury, Carol, isn't great at lying. I don't think. And I think that if she, i think that the fact that she says like, for a minute there, we didn't know, but we do know now Like the fact that she admitted that. If she had been like, no, no, he's not, he's not, and then never elaborated, then I then i would have a bit more um suspicions.
00:22:13
Speaker
But because, you know, when she gets asked point blank, she, you know, she's break she breaks down and she's like, like, we didn't know, but but no, Mark is your father.
00:22:24
Speaker
Like, I think Mark is, but man, I mean, it certainly is messy. I don't really know. How do they really know? And like how many people knew about like my only thought is you take a paternity test um or you talk to a ah a thinker who knows these who can know these kinds of things. but Tattletail.
00:22:45
Speaker
yeah like for sure But o but yeah but like i yeah It makes me wonder, like, how many people were involved in the knowing of if Mark was her father or not? Like, how many people were included in that conversation?
00:23:01
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah, I mean, i i give Carol the benefit and in the sense, like you said, of she is brain damaged and can't lie as well. But she doesn't quite admit it until Victoria's about, like, at the very end. She's like, Mark is your dad. Like, a very quick, like...
00:23:20
Speaker
ah yes concession at the end and it felt maybe like that's just what she's been telling herself so long she believes it. I'm still kind of conspiracy theory minded in the sense of like no no Victoria's definitely manpower's definitely her dad like I'm almost 100% sure of that but it's it's the lie that we tell ourselves that matters right? The lie that we believe right that matters in a way and so I mean, it doesn't really
Victoria's Family Tensions
00:23:49
Speaker
matter, ultimately. I just think it's fun to ponder.
00:23:51
Speaker
Oh, yeah. i mean, he did, so, like, there's no... There's no resolution there, unfortunately. yeah Yeah. And we... And this this is... We're talking about Aunt Sarah's husband, right?
00:24:05
Speaker
Yeah. Mm-hmm. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. yeah there Also, as Fran points out, if if it's true, then Victoria's Shard was just shit-talking, Mark. yeah mother man who raised me yeah yeah also uh nick i'm either about to be you know i'm sorry jacob i'm about to either get this or struggle along with you in uh world which is it gonna be
00:24:39
Speaker
alan
00:24:42
Speaker
He's playing Wordle. Kick him. Kick him dammit like him off the podcast. it over there. I just had to and of out oh now he goes that so i agree
00:25:01
Speaker
Um, Beefaroni says, fun Carol fact, in her interlude in Worm, where we see Amy go to the birdcage, Carol states that Mark pressured her into having Victoria. She also says she caved and had Victoria. So there is...
00:25:16
Speaker
move Yeah, so I guess then that question would be, like, if Carol didn't really want kids... Would she, knowing that Mark really wanted kids and they're like trying for a kid, you know? um Yeah. Then would she also actively be cheating during that period, I guess, maybe? That would be the question. um But, yeah.
00:25:41
Speaker
Who knows? Who knows? Who knows? Very messy. Also, isn't it great that you can just tell people in subtle terms that you're raw dogging it with your spouse to have a child? Isn't that just... yeah what What a beautiful thing language is.
00:25:57
Speaker
We're trying. we're we're We're trying. We're trying to have work with man Sir, are trying. Like, oh, thank you for the mental image. really i really didn't need that.
00:26:11
Speaker
I mean, good for you for having lots of sex. i What is the proper... Okay, real though, like real talking. What is the proper response to that when someone tells you they're trying to have a baby? Do you do you just like like giggle softly to yourself and go... a Or do you like... We don't kink shame. That's what you say.
00:26:33
Speaker
yeah But we do kink judge. yeah Exactly. you You can ask nice, polite questions like, so how's the nut? and yeah And how long have you been trying? How much volume are we talking about? What's the swim count?
00:26:50
Speaker
ah You know, those kind of things. That's what Michael knows. Michael, that's a man knows. That's... It's terrible. And I hate it so much. you I would have said, but have you tried it without the condom?
00:27:04
Speaker
yeah
00:27:09
Speaker
Just ask condom no condom. I have so many of these I can say and I can't. Or like, but where? you know no, no. I've heard that matters. No, no, no. Okay.
00:27:24
Speaker
That's where we draw the line. Michael's trying to not get us demonetized. Demonetized? That implies that we're getting paid. To bring it back to Worm, right that phrase, we're trying to make a baby, really changes depending on the character who says it, right?
00:27:42
Speaker
Mark and Carol trying to have a baby. Makes sense. Bonesaw and Nilbog trying to make a baby. Probably not something you want to be around for. Amy and Chris.
00:27:55
Speaker
Amy and Chris trying to nursery. Oh, yeah. No. sir Making a baby. ah the You know, the Simuragan
Character Growth Trajectories
00:28:05
Speaker
behemoth. Or Simuragan Kronos.
00:28:09
Speaker
I was going to say Dragon and Defiant trying to make a baby. There's no try only do. love it, friends. There's no try. That's right. That's right. There's only do or do not. There is no try. Oh, my God. That's the real response. I like that lot. What supposed to do with you guys? That's pretty good. That is phenomenal. We're talking about this. You're like tying it back to worm. I couldn't help but giggle because I'm just like sperm. Sperm.
00:28:41
Speaker
No! Please, God! Oh God. Someone get me out of
00:28:52
Speaker
Jeez. That's Patreon kind of lead. It really gives a ery gives a new ah new visual to the entities floating through the Milky Way, you might say. Oh my God. It's always been there.
00:29:09
Speaker
I'm so glad my camera is today. You just ask, what's your shard count? um What's your shard count? After you trigger, there's a refractory period.
00:29:21
Speaker
can blow their shards all over the planet. Just seeing visions. Okay, I just gotta leave the chat. This is not... I gotta go. I gotta go. It's fine, fine, fine, fine. Fran pointed out the Simmerick did make a baby. That's right, he tried to. He tried. It got blown up, right?
00:29:46
Speaker
so Somebody blew it up, I think? Yeah, it got... it got um then Yeah, was it... Entombed? It didn't capture him. and No, it wasn't. It was just definitely destroyed. Was it?
00:29:58
Speaker
Somebody in chat? it wasn't It feels like it would have been ah a teacher capture if it was a teacher capture. There was also the Simmer clone baby that was getting grown, but that thing got got all destroyed. Oh, that's what I'm thinking of. That's that's what got destroyed. I could have sworn there was something like the epilogue also, but there was the one that um Blasto was doing and yeah stopped Oh, yes.
00:30:24
Speaker
Yes.
00:30:27
Speaker
Yeah. Yes. um Yeah. and there's Some fun notes I have here. No beefaroni, don't leave.
00:30:41
Speaker
What? I have... and I'm going to butcher the pronunciation here. But ah Hecaton Carries... ah which was the three giants with 50 heads and 100 arms um that I think actually fought against the Titans.
00:31:02
Speaker
Hecatonchires? I don't know. What? The Hecatonchires? Yeah. Hecatonchires. Hecatonchires. Which is the alternate name they tried to give Mr. Hugs.
00:31:17
Speaker
Hecatonchires. It means 100-handed ones. Okay. Which I assume is the inspiration for a certain enemy fought we fought in Odyssey of the Dragon Lords. 100% is. and Absolutely.
00:31:30
Speaker
um Yeah. ah And then, you know, i just have a bunch of notes about talking about, you know, the revelation in front of like, oh, we, you know, what's bothering, Carol, what's bothering you, Victoria?
00:31:47
Speaker
i don't want to talk about it. No, for real. let Tell me. ah yeah i really don't want to talk about it. No, please. Let's talk about this.
00:31:58
Speaker
Okay.
00:32:01
Speaker
Who's my dad? yeah Is it Nihila? Oh man. I don't want to talk about this. Can we not talk about this now? Yeah, absolutely fucking not. We don't want to talk about this now. Oh, because Crystal over here.
00:32:17
Speaker
yeah we're going to do this in front of Crystal now. We don't want to do it now. I cannot stand that kind of like bullshit. Like, no, no, no. We need to talk about it. You need to get it out. And it's like, oh, okay.
00:32:28
Speaker
All right. Fine. Who's my dad? I don't want to talk about... look what you Oh, I hate that. It makes me so upset. Yeah. no Well, I feel like Victoria gave her... And she's brain damaged, so we got to give her some slack maybe. But yeah Victoria gave her so many chances, right? She's like, so I went into shard space. I saw bad things about people I'm close to.
00:32:51
Speaker
your mom's like, oh, tell me more. she's like Was it something I did while I was in costume? know i it's like so It must have been something I did in costume. It was in costume. Oh, true. So true. And she's like, no. And she's like, oh, well, it must have been something.
00:33:06
Speaker
She's like, I saw something really bad about you, mom. She's like, oh, what could it be? like I don't understand how she doesn't straight think to like the worst possible thing. Like,
00:33:18
Speaker
How many secrets do you have in your life? Exactly. like there's Exactly. i like i think like We all have like one or three things that come to mind. How many people could you have killed? Like, come on. Yes, exactly. like how Like, how could it be so bad that in her worst case scenario of like, oh, she saw something bad. It's like, oh, you saw me.
00:33:43
Speaker
ah hurt of Empire 88 member a little too hard. You know what? put Nazis into dumpsters like twenty four seven I could have been a fucking collegiate field goal kicker when it came to putting Nazis.
00:33:57
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. So. ah It's the brain injury. add That's the only. Yeah. I think it has to be because it's like, that's of course. Yeah. Yeah.
Identity and Power Dynamics
00:34:08
Speaker
Of Yeah. Although nothing makes me angrier than an out being a legitimate out. Like, oh, no, legitimately, she's brain damaged. Like, damn it. Like, I don't want to give her an out. I don't think she should get one. And I don't feel like Carol should get one just because she's been knocked around a little bit and her.
00:34:26
Speaker
Her noggins a little loose like that's that doesn't seem fair. It makes me mad. Well, when your when your brain is too small to fit inside your skull already anyway, getting knocked around shakes it a lot. it makes sense. She's had some issues.
00:34:41
Speaker
Yeah, right.
00:34:45
Speaker
Rattling around. you don't know what this is in a ruck. Just like a little bean bouncing around in there. Like one of those little bouncy balls. So like when you knock it once, it just keeps going.
00:34:56
Speaker
Exactly. It's a moon ball. Like the DVD thing. just Oh, yes. Never quite hits the corner. Oh, yeah. Never quite completes the thought. Yeah.
00:35:08
Speaker
I have a note here. and I don't know what it's referenced to, but it's wretched together. Um, all the different faces that we have sort of just like the wretch that, uh, you know how it's got all this different, it literally has different faces and eyes and body parts. Right.
00:35:25
Speaker
Um, it feels very akin to what we're talking about now with Victoria being sort of this stitch together, human being of the different parts of her life. Hmm.
00:35:38
Speaker
Yeah. is maybe why she's feeling so close to the wretch right now. Because she has no single coherent form. Yeah. 17.2?
00:35:59
Speaker
Yeah. 17.2. After breakfast, Victoria, Crystal, and Carol go to the Warden's headquarters to talk with Valkyrie and Sarah. Valkyrie sends Victoria to interrupt Vista and Byron to reunite the former with Dennis and Kidwin and get some shard space details.
00:36:18
Speaker
m
00:36:21
Speaker
Lots of tasty reunions. yeah spot too Tasty. Tasty reunions. Tasty intimacy. These characters. Finally.
00:36:33
Speaker
It goes to pick up Vista. we we I just have Jesus Vista. What was this? The pizza challenge?
00:36:41
Speaker
for those of you who don't know, the pizza challenge is when you call for a pizza delivery and then you start having sex with the hope that you finish before the pizza gets there. Before the pizza man arrives. yeah okay I see. I see. doesn't work so well when you live right down the street from a dominant.
00:36:59
Speaker
Humanity. I don't know. Mine works pretty fast. that is What is happening to that? I hate it again. And I hate it again. don't know. You know what it is? you know It's not even our fault.
00:37:13
Speaker
We've got to another really horny part of Ward. but So you know whose fault this is? John's. John! Goddammit, god damage on ja You knew what you were doing?
00:37:24
Speaker
John Mackin McCracken. You know? We gotta get it out now or ah or the last chapter is gonna be a mess. Oh my god. It be about it John McCabe more like John might be cracking.
00:37:43
Speaker
you know That's what I'm saying. Deliver me from my enemies, oh my god. Defend me from them that rise up against me. Deliver me from bloodied men. I...
00:37:56
Speaker
yeah Anyways, Kerbo speaks. Poor Byron. I'm just going to throw it out there. Yes, poor Byron. The dude's like on his deathbed trying his best to survive you know life here.
00:38:10
Speaker
And he's got to like be a passenger and his in his brother's ah hookup. You mean Tristan? ah tri Oh, yeah. tri Wait, which one? good Sorry. This is Byron trying to get laid. This is Byron. Sorry.
00:38:25
Speaker
Yes. oh So Byron wasn't a hospital, but going through Shard Space helped him recover faster. Because remember, Tristan comes out because his brother doesn't want to do the walk of shame. Yeah. otherwise Exactly. So Tristan comes out just laughing.
00:38:40
Speaker
That's funny. Which is freaking hilarious. i I will say there is nothing... yeah there is No touching. Yeah, exactly. Where Tristan just walks out and he's like... ah and so great. Gosh.
00:39:03
Speaker
ah that was lovely That's because Tristan and Vista are like, this is why Tristan's okay with Vista. Cause they're on the same like horny brain wavelength. We're like moon moon song. We're just like, oh I just want to hold hands and talk. And Tristan was like, fuck that.
00:39:21
Speaker
And Vista's like, I'm gonna die
Character Developments and Key Moments
00:39:24
Speaker
any day. i have a handgun strapped to my thigh. You know, I brought protection. Let's go. And Byron's like, oh, I don't know. And Tristan's like, let's go.
00:39:36
Speaker
Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, it's great. um Oh, man. It's such a such a funny moment. I love that character development for them, too. And yet Vista's apartment room, like her dormitory room,
00:39:50
Speaker
still feels like such a like a college kid, but like a freshman almost. And I know that's about her age anyway. so it's She's like 16. Oh, is she 16? Yeah, she's young still. She's really still a baby. I want to say she's like 16 or 17. They're like, we'll talk about this when you're later ah freaking narwhals. Maybe When you're That's right, because she's just like not far away yeah he's not quite yet.
00:40:19
Speaker
or not quite 18 yet. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But just the yeah, just some that goofy like the posters and everything even still having the gallant poster right in Victoria is like, oh that's funny. Like just kind of the the mutual history there is great. Yeah.
00:40:37
Speaker
yeah
00:40:40
Speaker
17, J-Man says. Okay, yeah, so she is 17. Because Byron and Tristan are 17, 18? I want to say they turned 18. Mm-hmm. 17 at the start. Okay.
00:40:52
Speaker
Cool. Yeah. um But yeah, what a great what a great moment. So many funny... the a I was wondering the same thing.
00:41:05
Speaker
Because if you're away for half the time...
00:41:10
Speaker
And it's like a stasis.
00:41:14
Speaker
They seem to age. but way I know. she does yeah yeah Yeah. Just pondering. yeah yeah Speaking of aging, um Valkyrie being pretty being seen by Victoria as an older woman...
00:41:32
Speaker
was interesting to me. Not like elderly, it seemed, but being like, oh, Valkyrie... Well, that's most age than her own. Yeah, Valkyrie seems like my mom's age.
00:41:42
Speaker
And that is a rapid age up from somebody who was like... preteen, fae queen eight Yeah, because she was 30, like, I think they said like Jessica Yamada age, so yeah around 30, and she still had the appearance of like a 12-year-old, a la Bonesaw style.
00:42:05
Speaker
Then the next time we saw her at the end of Worm, she looked more like she was in high school and stuff like going on almost college age, I think.
00:42:18
Speaker
And then when we got to this one, she was like her, her and Victoria were like a little bit comparable. So like early 20. And yeah, now she's like, yeah. Yeah.
00:42:33
Speaker
Yeah, so maybe she's at her appropriate age now, perhaps, is all that's happened. Yeah, I mean, if she's mid-30s at least, like, that would be around where think she should Yeah, because Carol would be in her 40s, I assume.
00:42:50
Speaker
Yeah, ish, yeah. yeaha That sounds right. Yeah. So, yeah, can she just can she just straight up control her age, Fran? Yeah. Fran said she can control her age. I guess she can just control her age. yeah and say Is this an intentional thing or is this like a wearing down thing because of how much she's putting into the shadows? I could see that too. Maybe so.
00:43:14
Speaker
see like We know she can hold her age back but is this like a catching up? Is she like, I don't know. Kind of like Eidolon maybe where it's starting to fade I think. Maybe. Eidolon was fading because his shard was angry with him.
00:43:28
Speaker
Because he wasn't he wasn't performing correctly. this yeah This feels like it'd be the opposite. like i feel like It feels like she's doing more. That the shard would probably... i know Maybe not. Maybe the shard doesn't. right right yeah well but here though When we meet her in Worm, she's more shard than human. And Taylor kind of flips it on her.
00:43:49
Speaker
And that may, could be part of what's wearing her down too. So who knows? Yeah. yeah Yeah. um Yeah. For the, the bone saw thing, what we were saying in comparison there, just to clarify that, there I think there was some confusion.
00:44:02
Speaker
The comparison is solely that bone saw and Valkyrie both were younger than they appeared. Not that they were both in there. um Oh, but so you know yeah. yeah They were both younger than they were appeared and they did it intentionally.
00:44:15
Speaker
they did Yeah. It was an intentional choice. Yeah. Yeah. yeah Yeah, Bonesaw is still young. She's still only like 16 or so. Yeah. um But yeah. She was keeping herself more like looking like a child. Like a 10 year old or like a nine year old or something. Yeah. Yeah. Like a nine year old. Yeah.
00:44:32
Speaker
Maybe even younger too. I feel like she even made herself. younger I thought she was. I thought we said like nine, even though she was like 12, 13, run into her. And then she's like 16 now.
00:44:46
Speaker
or so, but she still looks small for her age. Right.
00:44:54
Speaker
I mean, she's done so much work on herself, like, I don't know if her body would grow, you know? Yeah,
Reunions and Emotional Growth
00:45:02
Speaker
it's it's probably more of a thing where it's like, she is still artificially choosing her age, um but, you know, she...
00:45:14
Speaker
She's now trying to make it appropriate to her actual age. Right? Right. So. Yeah, but ah they go onto the roof and instead of Valkyrie, they see Dennis.
00:45:27
Speaker
Dennis! Flockblocker and Kidwin. I'd like to rename them. Official renaming as Flockblocker and Kidwing.
00:45:39
Speaker
Kidwing? Yes, Kidwing and Flockblocker. Okay.
00:45:46
Speaker
Why? Because they're part of Valkyrie's block now. Oh. Oh. yeahp arrest yeah case I vote no, but sure. That's okay. The motion's already passed. You're on our objection. well On to 17.3. You can't be judge and lawyer for your own case.
00:46:08
Speaker
Since when? That seems like all they ever do in this universe. Yeah. ball ballad
00:46:20
Speaker
I don't know. i Listen, I enjoy, as with all ah all of his stories, I really, really like the... sort of mirroring of tropes that he does and in superhero stories no one's ever really dead they all come back through some bullshit witch magic alternate dimension for who knows what right so like this feels like a fun play and twist on that trope because it is different they're back but are they you know it's like all that kind of stuff at the same time
00:46:53
Speaker
You're back from the dead. And I hate that trope with a passion. So. Same. this was These are fun conversations. Don't get me wrong. They're still a good chapters. But overall, I'm just like, why are we back? Why are we here? Yeah. Yeah. yeah i I think it does a couple interesting things. Like you said, it's back to the deconstruction, reconstruction. Yeah, so we'll go with reconstruction of...
00:47:18
Speaker
ah bring back back for from the dead but it does a couple things that others don't one it
Tropes and Storytelling Analysis
00:47:25
Speaker
actually has a purpose in deciphering the fundamental rules of the universe like this is a thing essential to understanding how the magic system works here if you will um and So like I think that's very interesting to have that as some way to exposit that.
00:47:48
Speaker
um Two, it's a little bit of fan service because who doesn't love Clockblocker and Kidwin? The fact that it is fan service kind of makes it feel a little cheesy, but I feel like that almost cancels each other out.
00:48:02
Speaker
um And then ah three is you could have the option of... having them be a a shadow, just strictly a shadow.
00:48:16
Speaker
um You know, kind of how we met ah Laser Mom before. um Or you could have them be fully pull way back. and I think they've it's a good balance, what we've shown, where they'll never be fully back.
00:48:35
Speaker
human whatever you want to call it um and i think but i do think it does a very good job of incorporating it into the universe um as much as i don't like march it starts to explain things about what march had to say about like their concept of heaven and whatnot and uh Yeah, I do think it's interesting that in this universe, because comics bring people back from the dead so often, idea is that you aren't coming back with your powers. Your powers are being dragged back and your personality might get dragged along with it.
00:49:16
Speaker
Right.
00:49:20
Speaker
And even then, the percentage of your personality is like... You know, because they talk about... is Aunt Sarah... Aunt Sarah... like she Aunt Sarah? She...
00:49:31
Speaker
eighty percent seventy percent yeah and how like the the whoever it is that's coming back has to re-find themselves and like re-settle into who they are and their personality again. And like some sometimes you find who you were before and sometimes you just don't and you settle into something else.
00:49:55
Speaker
Yeah. yeah And it's, it's a semi, you know, ship of these is problem, which. Yeah. Yes. One of, one of the best parts of post Thanos MCU was the WandaVision show.
00:50:09
Speaker
Um, and if for no other reason, yes, it's solely because of the ship of these is conversation that vision has with vision at the end of the show, uh, you know, yeah minor spoilers. Um,
00:50:23
Speaker
It's a few years old by now, but um yeah, but just that like question of are they even themselves? it It'd be like if you had a large folder on a computer and then you you picked like 60 of 100 files from that folder, copied them to a new computer and then created a ah CD out of each you know folder. Right.
00:50:46
Speaker
Is that second CD the same as the first CD or is it a new thing entirely? And I think that's part of what's interesting about this. Again, it is kind of tropey. um and But yeah, so it's it's kind of interesting. Interesting conversation in chat, though, that I want to throw to Jacob to start.
00:51:08
Speaker
J-Man asked, can someone explain the difference between deconstruction and reconstruction? i don't feel like I have an idea of what's the difference. Specifically talking about like tropes in media. so yeah That's a good question.
00:51:21
Speaker
Um, yeah, I mean, the way I've kind of always interpreted it was that deconstruction and media in general is sort of breaking down the the genre or the trope or the story type or, you know, archetype or whatever it is, um, into, you're you're kind of, you're kind of breaking, I'm trying to think off the top of my head, like a good example of a deconstruction,
00:51:45
Speaker
um
00:51:48
Speaker
shout it out if you got a ah good one here too. I can't think of a good one off. I mean, The Boys is... The Boys is... The Boys is satire. It's more parody than... But it is along the right. would think deconstruction is usually critical.
00:52:09
Speaker
is yeah Is the thing. It's usually a critique of what's going on. so um Oh, ah it's really hard to separate. Speaking of superheroes, the Watchmen.
00:52:22
Speaker
The Watchmen is a good example of deconstruction. Watchmen would be deconstruction. Yeah, exactly. It's a critique of the genre. A critique of the genre. Shrek is a deconstructive look at fairy tales.
00:52:33
Speaker
Yep. yeah It is also a parody, but it is a deconstructive look at fairy tales. Where it's like, hey, fairy tales always have this, the princess has to be beautiful. Why is that the case? What if we redefine what beauty is and make it more about actually caring about the person?
00:52:50
Speaker
You know? Oh, of course. Duh. Yeah. I mean, if you're going to just go full on ah humor with a deconstruction, like Cabin in the Woods is a deconstruction of the horror genre.
Thematic and Literary Critique
00:53:01
Speaker
Yeah.
00:53:01
Speaker
yeah that kind of thing. There is usually a little bit of a meta like to it where like, People maybe even in the world are aware of the tropiness of things.
00:53:13
Speaker
Right. um ah It's once again, it's parody, but I think it has deconstruction in it. You go from cabin in the woods, but there's also ah Tucker and Dale versus evil.
00:53:24
Speaker
um There's ah literally the scary movie franchise. Yeah. Yeah. um which Scary Movie Franchise is a great example because it's deconstructing it so much. it's It does feel almost disjointed in its story because it is chopping up worlds and having an a an examination of them in a humorous content out of you know almost context.
00:53:49
Speaker
ah I think the difference between that and the reconstruction, reconstruction often has to go with a deconstruction and it is the building up in a more like with a positive lean towards it.
00:54:03
Speaker
um in my Or an understanding of the problems of the original trope itself and recognizing that like, okay, well, we've you've broken down the faults of it and we've examined it and we put it back together and we're like re-examining the the problems with it.
00:54:20
Speaker
It's not... Reconstruction is not, to to what I can find, isn't like a as well-defined ah archetype or a trope in and of itself yet, because there's really not a lot of it.
00:54:33
Speaker
Probably because I think it's it's very, very hard to do. Yeah. was I'm trying to think of i would another really good example. I've got one example. The new Superman would be a reconstruction. Superman, yeah, I was going to say the new Superman could be considered a reconstruction because yeah generally what reconstruction um is would be something like, hey, we're going to we're going to take an interest in what made this genre interesting in the first place and try to redeem it.
00:55:03
Speaker
um Or try to bring it up again or make it make it new and fresh. So like the new Superman movie, be a good example of that. um One that came to mind for me with that is a I read a comic book by Mark Miller, um who famously did like a lot of the dark Batman stuff, I believe.
00:55:19
Speaker
um And he um he actually did a comic series called Huck, which is basically a it's sort of a Superman type story. But it's like very not usual for Mark Miller because it's all about a guy who is just a good hero and does good things like.
00:55:39
Speaker
And the goal of him was like for him in his in writing about it, he said, like, i I saw an oversaturation of the dark media and like, oh, everything's so dark and gritty and the world's a terrible place. And he's like, maybe we just need like a good hero again, like ah a good guy, a genuine good person, um which is why, yeah, the new Superman movie is a more popular example um that would fit that as well, where it's like, hey, you know, kindness is punk rock, like be a good person. Superman's actually, you know, nice and does his very best to help everyone he can and isn't, know, dark and gritty and,
00:56:16
Speaker
Yeah. yeah asked yeah His dad lets, you know, lets his dad die. His friend points out, one points out the tropes, whereas Reconstruction tries to make the tropes work. I think did that second part, especially Reconstruction tries to make the tropes work.
00:56:33
Speaker
He's a great example of why worm and water special. We know the tropes. We don't even really point them out in Worm or Ward.
00:56:45
Speaker
They're just there. And enough so that we I definitely forget about them sometimes until they happen. Or if I like am looking for them, then I get them.
00:56:56
Speaker
um But he snuck a lot by me that I later where i was like, Oh, are we doing kaiju monsters? How did I not get that this was a giant kaiju monster thing? Like, how did I miss that? um yeah And it is a trope.
00:57:09
Speaker
And he does do it. And it works because it's like, there's a reason tropes work. um And they they can be done right and well. The problem is because they get done in repetition so often, they become boring and flat. Yeah.
00:57:27
Speaker
Madoka magic is just straight up a deconstruction. um That's deconstruction of the magical girl genre. ah J man. um I'm thinking to like ah i would a really good example yeah is like, um the like a, like the time travel trope. Right.
00:57:44
Speaker
So like historically time travel is super paradoxical. It's, ah it's always just been like, it's silly. It's never going to make sense the way back to the future. It doesn't make sense. Like all that kind of stuff. Right.
00:57:55
Speaker
And so then you get into a lot of deconstructing of time travel. And now we've kind of entered a reconstruction of time travel where predominantly time travel nowadays in all media is multidimensional, where it like does make sense, where it's not, you're going back in time, you've gone back into a different dimension. So it's technically different, right? So you kind of reconstructed the trope to make it work for ah you know ah a growing or a learning audience.
00:58:24
Speaker
Right. Yeah. Yeah. um It's a great question and something definitely to consider, especially since deconstruction and reconstruction is such a wide... has such a wide field of things that applies to
00:58:45
Speaker
just as sort of a thought experiment. And it's hard to... Yeah, as a thought experiment, too, to wrap that up, it's kind of hard... to put such a fine line on things because every art movement is a reaction to the previous art movement and almost every historical art
Vista's Humor and Narrative Influence
00:59:05
Speaker
movement. Right. So it's like, oh, this was a deconstruct. You could say, you know, this art movement was a deconstruction of the previous art movement. You know, Rococo was a deconstruction of Baroque because they,
00:59:17
Speaker
took the fanciness to an extremity and then the next art movement was a reconstruction of the older style the gothic style that was more sublime and uh subdued right and it's like every art movement kind of pendulum's back and forth wow but so yeah hey i had i had to go full teacher sometime it's been a while art class with nick damn I really liked Arts and Ideas second semester, guys. I know nobody else did, but it was a great time for me. Are we talking about Berenzi's class? Yeah. I fucking love that class. That was my favorite class I ever took in college. Are you kidding me?
00:59:52
Speaker
That shit was the best. Anyways. All right. um Yeah. Anything else we want to talk about? yeah Oh, i have I have one thing question for us while we're in 17.2. Mm-hmm.
01:00:07
Speaker
um What would be your terrible Vista pickup line?
01:00:14
Speaker
you've got Your Vista, you got to pick up Byron. What's your pickup line? ah What do you say we shrink this space between us?
01:00:24
Speaker
Oh! good That's pretty good. I like that. That's good. I knew somebody was cooking here. Byron, have you used your power recently? Because I'm wet. There we go. oh my goodness.
01:00:38
Speaker
Wow. good That's really good. There's something about, you know, there's something about, like, you know, you sure didn't you didn't switch over to your brother because it appears rock hard right now.
01:00:55
Speaker
i already hate it. Oh, no, no! ah And you have to remember, too, like, whatever pickup line you throw with Byron, you're also technically throwing at Tristan, and Tristan picks, like, you're fucked.
01:01:07
Speaker
Yeah. um I just imagine, and he can say it, I just imagine, tri like, Byron gets embarrassed and switches out to Tristan, and Tristan just goes, hu gay! and yeah Yeah. I really do think that there is probably some, like, okay some light teasing there from Tristan to be like, bro, like, come on, I like dudes, and how am I the least gay brother between us?
01:01:37
Speaker
Yeah.
01:01:39
Speaker
You want to talk to them? Oh, my God. Oh, my God. Yep. Yep. What was her line? I'm trying to remember what she said that she said. Was it just like, oh, my room's closer than the wherever you're going. should just come to my room. My room's closer to the hospital and skin to skin contact is known to improve healing. That's right. like it's bad it's bad but it's good like it's it's so bad that it's coming back around to being good and i love it exactly yeah yeah yeah we'll get to it later but victoria was definitely there meanwhile she's like shoving space in between hospitals all sudden instead across the street it's miles away no it seems like pretty far walk to me
01:02:28
Speaker
oh gosh Yeah.
Reflections on Past and Growth
01:02:33
Speaker
Alrighty. 17.3. Let's go. All right. Kidwin, Dennis, Vista, and Victoria talk details about shard space, memories, and changing personalities.
01:02:47
Speaker
They look over the various threats, and Vista and Victoria are called to help deal with Amy's plans. yeah Okay, what is it with the summary constantly referring to Clockblocker as Dennis?
01:02:59
Speaker
don't know why. Because he's referred to as Dennis the majority of this chapter. I guess so. What is Kidwin's real name? I forget. ah they say it at one point. They do say it. Is it Christopher? It's Christopher! Yeah, if I had a name like Christopher, I would rather go by Kidman. She calls him Chris at one point. yeah And I'm like, why is we have, why is we have, why do we have another Chris?
01:03:22
Speaker
Why do we have another Chris? Like that's stupid. And from then on, everyone calls him Christopher. or not It's not just we have him and we'll later get into another double naming because we've got Eric as well.
01:03:34
Speaker
yeah Oh, yeah, there's another Eric, too. I forgot about that. yeah i remember seeing that, and i was like, what? Eric? Yeah. yeah not Not the time to have a name Eric when we're dealing with family problems over in the Pelham household, in the Dallin household. Oh, yeah.
01:03:51
Speaker
ah ralph you know eric Yeah, I gotta say, this whole chapter was so boring to me. Like, listen, you know, you I love Clockblocker, Kidwin.
01:04:03
Speaker
So great to have them back. I could not have cared less about this conversation. what What were we even talking about? I don't even know. Like, we're trying to talk about shard space and we're trying to talk about, like, I guess how the power, what? Like, I was not, I was so lost for this chapter.
01:04:22
Speaker
Yeah, I'm kind of in the same. I was trying to tune in a bit when they were kind of getting into some of the interesting world building stuff, which I do like. But again, I'm just like yeah these these characters. i mean, we've been reading Ward for how long?
01:04:37
Speaker
How long in real like real world time have these characters been dead? Like i have a lot. I don't care. I've just lost. I don't care about them. I wish I did because I cared about them when they died.
01:04:49
Speaker
But I don't care about them now. And yeah, it's just I would much, much rather get to different characters and different conversations at this point. Yeah. And like, for I don't mind. Oh, I'm sorry, Jacob. I didn't mean to. No, that's ah that's all i was saying.
01:05:05
Speaker
um I don't mind, again, i don't i don't mind the meetup here, the talking to our dead compatriots, but I'm way more interested in whatever conversation was happening between Vista and Clock than I am in this weird back and forth between Victoria and Kidwin. Because it's like, after this, the reaction that that Little V has of like,
01:05:31
Speaker
yeah, that's that's not him. Like, he's wrong. Like, there's something wrong. Like, I want to hear what they were talking about, what they're chit-chatting about, and i want to hear the differences, and I want to see if I recognize the differences in Clockblocker, because Clockblocker was great. I freaking loved him. He was phenomenal, and loved the way that he worked with with Taylor's powers last time. Like, that was very cool, and that still sits in my head. It like, very cool moments with him, and I would have liked to see more of that and less about the... Like, obviously, I understand we're we're contemplating shard space and we're contemplating the shards and what they're doing and everything. Obviously, that's at the forefront of our mind for our sweet Victoria. But I kind of couldn't care less.
01:06:18
Speaker
it It just felt like it didn't meet need a whole chapter, maybe, right? This could have been a bit shorter. And it still would have been interesting, I think... i mean It could have been really interesting, but it feels like they talked a long time to come to the conclusion that Shard's space is really confusing and it's definitely got memories stored in there. um and And, you know, Victoria kind of relates to Kid Wynn not feeling whole. and but It just felt like it took a ah long time to get to that point, and it could have gotten there a lot faster.
01:06:53
Speaker
And it felt like Victoria was trying to say something about herself and how she has felt now that she's come back out of it and that how she's different. And and that just made me like wonder, am I missing something? is are Is John trying to tell me something here that I'm not picking up on? Like, is there... ah Like, not another cabin situation, but, like, is there something else that I'm missing that I'm supposed to be picking up on that's, like, weird about Victoria? Especially going into, you know, the next couple of chapters with her and Amy. Like, this this feeling of, like, well, okay, well, there's this sense of wrongness. And, you know, Victoria is under self-proclaimed ah master cho stranger. And it just feels like, am i like, I've got to be missing something here, right? Like,
01:07:41
Speaker
that that would explain Victoria's, you know, feeling of not herselfness, which I feel like we've been feeling, you know, the whole damn book, but this is supposed to feel different somehow, but I just don't, yeah I don't know. It's just as, I wasn't, yeah, I didn't like this chapter.
World-building and Dialogue
01:08:05
Speaker
Yeah, yeah. I honestly don't remember it that well either because I think there's not much to link the conversation to. with ti it down I wonder how often Wildbo is trying to explain how something works in shard space so he has to like exemplify it through the conversations but it's really not that interesting to the overall story. He's just kind of doing world building through characters. I feel like he does that a lot.
01:08:32
Speaker
Because Fran says they're showing off how Dennis's personality is inverting. So, like, maybe it it's like the whole point of it was maybe not super story related. Who knows?
01:08:45
Speaker
But I wouldn't put it past. Yeah, it's it's one of those things for like, you know, we could read a textbook version of Worm, like the Wikipedia of Worm, or we could read.
01:08:59
Speaker
you know, words, worm itself or word itself. And the reason we do that is because it's the more interesting version um or it's supposed to be. And Beckford has successfully knocked my camera out of whack.
01:09:13
Speaker
the cutest Baby in the world, he the cutest baby in the world is he is yeah full on. Got my hand as I'm trying to work this mouse.
01:09:23
Speaker
How? Hey, Yeah, I think a lot of it is his his desire to reinvent or, you know, like we're talking about, deconstruct slash reconstruct stuff.
01:09:35
Speaker
And a lot of yeah what people read his works for is that, and I have a sit a suspicion that that's what's happening in some of these chapters where he's like, hey, this is how I see this working.
01:09:47
Speaker
I'm going to use these characters speaking in this way or doing these things to exemplify it, stuff like that. Right. Which is probably pretty interesting to like world building wise, but it's just, it's difficult.
01:10:01
Speaker
Again, too, I think these are always, these are just ah ah genre issues, you know, exact serialization makes it hard. So, I think this chapter could work really well and ah in a specific spot if it was edited into a an actual published story. And I think it's just sort of yeah one of little things with with serialization that you're going to get these types chapters where like, he's got to say something, needs to make a point, kind of hard to fit it in.
01:10:30
Speaker
But yeah, so you get these. happenss Jacob, you and I, we'll talk later. We'll fix this in post. yeah yeah Patreon exclusive make everybody mad because we rewrite Ward. Although I don't think nearly many as many people will be as mad because there is not not as nostalgic for it.
01:10:48
Speaker
It'll be a lot more ripe for editing and it clearly needs a lot more editing. so Just cut in half. My only note.
01:11:00
Speaker
For real. that' That's about it. Just keep that, keep that, cut that, cut that, keep that, cut that. Then just go through the whole thing. A, B, extra...
01:11:13
Speaker
yeah No, never mind. no no got never Like I said, we'll fix it in post. Yeah. yeah yeah ah Point four? I mean, are there any other thoughts?
01:11:27
Speaker
um somebody said ah with the inverting personality this hero persona took over his real personality with his pessimism gone ah theoretically wouldn't killing and resurrecting Mark cure his depression and make Carol a better mother oh shit um but then somebody pointed out isn't Carol's secondary power being a bad mom anyway yeah ran room ferrati nice good our Our ongoing theory, as Fran said, is that Carol's a good mom in costume.
01:11:58
Speaker
Which yeah only gets proved at the beginning of the next chapter. It does. We'll get some good evidence for that theory here in just a second. yeah Let's kick it over to 17.4 then. 17.4. Carol, Victoria, Dream, Vista enter the Situation Room.
01:12:14
Speaker
carol victoria laserream and vista enter the situation room narwhal raises concerns about victoria which are handled by a confession from vista and a talk with the therapist duo vicky gets a read into the giant situation
01:12:32
Speaker
john okay the i will say the the payoff for the awkward vista interaction with victoria and vista right interrupting her and byron to now Narwhal grilling Victoria yeah about where her allies are and why are they interacting when they're not supposed to be? and how awkward. Deeply unfortunate.
01:13:00
Speaker
Yeah, and it's just so funny. And Victoria's like, I feel like finally, Vista being like, fine, it was me. He was just trying to be nice and not say anything. great.
01:13:12
Speaker
It's great. basically yeah I'm here for Dami Narwhal. Dami Narwhal. Dami Narwhal. Dami Narwhal. Yeah. Dami Narwhal. I was trying to find the name.
01:13:28
Speaker
yeah it's I just need the exact same scene, but with like a writing crop. Oh my gosh. Where were oh my God.
01:13:39
Speaker
All right. Narwhal. Narwhal. Narwhal. Narwh narwami Oh, man. Dom Wall. no No, he hated it.
01:13:53
Speaker
No, she's great. it's it feels like ah It feels like these chapters, or a lot of these chapters, are just our heroes getting... just the shit kid out kicked out of them by all the other leaders. Just, here's how you have fucked up everything. Yeah. Now it's my turn to to yell at you.
01:14:16
Speaker
Exactly. Yeah. Damn. yeah Which, you know, like, deserved, but also... Mm-hmm. Like, come on I do like that.
01:14:27
Speaker
That Carol has such a great response to Narwhal picking on picking on. oh, oh, oh look at that little Mr. Man. yeah for those are the audience hand Oh, move my hand. yeah because He's holding it but ah for our audio listeners.
Leadership Dynamics in Characters
01:14:45
Speaker
Alan has angled the camera down to his a desk where Beckford is currently gripping his mouse hand.
01:14:53
Speaker
And Beckford is being a sweet little boy, being the cutest cuddly man. um But no, I love that Carol steps in here and is like, I'm sorry. Had you just finished your work?
01:15:07
Speaker
Oh, and were you in fact on your downtime? And were you in fact sleeping on your downtime after your hard work?
01:15:20
Speaker
huh, and I guess that shouldn't be an issue, should it? And did you, in fact, ah sleep, and only sleep, with someone who actually might be really well-matched for you?
01:15:32
Speaker
Huh.
01:15:35
Speaker
And Narwhal's just like, all right Carol, we get it. And I just... Sometimes you need a fish. Sometimes, yes. Doesn't need a lawyer. Literally, a great, great moment for Carol in in the line of Carol's redemption. Yeah. Did I just say in the in the lion? Yeah.
01:15:53
Speaker
In the line of Carol's redemption. In the line of Carol's redemption. I don't know what I'm saying. In the points towards Carol's redemption. There we go. It was a good, there we go. We we got there eventually. ah the that That this, she's like standing up for her little V here. at Which I just, good, good. Someone needed to.
01:16:13
Speaker
And I think that like Carol's in this position where she's not only a well-known hero who's worked with these people forever, but also a lawyer and just kind of like this, like, hey, just a reminder, she's a good kid.
01:16:27
Speaker
Don't talk to her like that, which I felt like was necessary. And I think if Victoria had said anything, it wouldn't have done anything for Vista's favor. It would have because more problems but carol saying it it comes across as very motherly and especially is because she says this this is before this is after if she tells vista parents are complete assholes that they have their head up their asses no no but b feroni points out it's your your parents are asshats yeah your parents are phenomenal work carol i'm so we're so proud of how far you've come brain injury and all
01:17:08
Speaker
She's a great mother to everyone else is what we've learned. e Yeah, exactly. She has her moments once again, all in costume. Yep.
Therapy and Psychological Battles
01:17:18
Speaker
Yep. All in.
01:17:20
Speaker
Oh, man.
01:17:23
Speaker
I... Yeah. I'm trying to see things from outside of Victoria's perspective, right, to understand where the other characters are coming from because Victoria obviously is like, man, Narwhal is really grilling me like man narwhal is really being stern and strict like i don't get it and i'm like well i think i kind of do like you're dealing with an end of the world potential scenario with like a thousand different contingencies and one of those contingencies is a person who seems to have a knack for getting herself in situations where things you know putting herself at the center of everything um
01:18:06
Speaker
Yeah. um I don't know. It's I kind of get Narwhal's suspicion at least of like we got to make sure. but Sure. You know. And plus I forgot about this.
01:18:18
Speaker
Victoria put master stranger protocols on herself after interacting with Amy. So like, yeah, double reason why Narwhal would be suspicious. And ah the conversation with the therapist is very interesting.
01:18:32
Speaker
is this this is the chap This is where ah Victoria like perfectly clocks what Amy definitely did to her ah when they when she was unconscious. She's like, yeah, she definitely did something to me and then probably put it all back.
01:18:45
Speaker
I was like, wow. huge Yeah, I think that is weird. Because I still fucking hate her. And that's the thing she fixed. Yeah, didn't. Exactly.
01:18:57
Speaker
Exactly. Exactly. oh there's a point. i There's a great, great line. ah don't know if it's this chapter or the next one. where it's after she explains how she knows that she did something because she has an extra fingernail that she doesn't have. Well, not anymore because she fucking takes time to get the fuck out. of about that yeah Yeah, but that's what I mean. good then Because then it's the the one little line that he throws in where he she's like, ah and Victoria's like, and then i ah she's gripping something, but though the language is with, or digging in with all nine fingernails. It's a great little i saw the yeah moment. That's good. Yeah. Yeah.
01:19:33
Speaker
yeah That's how she thinks about it. Yeah. Oh, man. The conversation with um Dr. Darnall and ah Jessica as well, Dr. Yamada, I feel like... I actually feel like Dr. Darnall is kind of going up in my estimation in terms of characters and how he's handling situations.
01:19:54
Speaker
Yeah. someone who's like so Yeah, I've done therapy therapy for like cops and firefighters in traumatic situations too, working with capes. in the huge jump that is I feel like the way he handles this conversation is very is as as well done as I think it could have been with all the tension and underlying issues going into it right um asking good questions asking follow-ups and Victoria is even like you're not following the question manual and he's like I can do that if you want and then and then suddenly starts moving into those questions well doesn't she say that before we get started that I know all the questions in the manual so yeah yeah
01:20:37
Speaker
And he's like, we can, we can, you know, we can put a little boogie in it. Yeah. And that's why it even throws her off more. was like, okay, we were just going out of order, but I could see what we're doing too.
01:20:48
Speaker
Hmm. You didn't, you didn't do the followup question. Interesting. Yeah. Yeah. Well, it's interesting then, because Jessica does, Jessica does follow the script almost exactly. Yes. And then she, and it feels, yeah. it And it feels like she, cause at one point,
01:21:04
Speaker
ah he like asks a question and then doesn't really have the follow-up and he glances over at Jessica and it feels very much like he's trying to default to her. Like, you know, Victoria better than me. Like what other questions should we ask here? Like what other paths should we explore to get the right or not the right answer, but to get a more complete picture here?
01:21:29
Speaker
from her and then that's when Jessica kind of steps in a little bit more but I yeah it's it's interesting I do really enjoy their dynamics together as like a duo because Jessica is not super confident in her own self in her own ability but she does know Victoria really really well and kind of like him taking the lead but then stepping back and letting Jessica talk like I yeah I I liked their duo dynamic a little bit
01:22:01
Speaker
Anything else before we move on?
Moral Complexity of Amy's Actions
01:22:08
Speaker
I think we start talking about... Is this where we are directly dealing with Amy's bullshit? 17-5 gets into Amy. Okay. Oh, yes. On the phone call. Yeah.
01:22:21
Speaker
ah I do want to ask real quick if Fran can clarify something. Fran said the best line is the lead... fucking the Simurgh. And I'm like... The best line is what? Say again?
01:22:34
Speaker
Fran said the best line in the series is about is the one about fucking the Simurgh. What? And they said they think it's around this part of the story. Apparently it's a deleted one, though, so I don't know. Oh, it's a deleted one. I'm not aware a line about... deleted.
01:22:53
Speaker
Like it got edited out? I'm going to say that that's a joke. And if not, I want links or it didn't happen. Yeah. yeah yeah um Oh, the one other thing, too, that we we do need to mention is um this is where this is where Victoria confronts Jessica about Bonesaw, right? Oh, you're right. We figure out what happened.
01:23:16
Speaker
yeah So Bonesaw is alive, we find out, which yeah I'm kind of weirdly grateful for. i'm like, oh, thank goodness. Jessica didn't. More because I didn't want Jessica to have had killed somebody. I feel like that would change her character so much.
01:23:31
Speaker
um But the fact so that it was, yeah Yeah, I was going to say also Bonesaw dying off screen at the hands of yeah right an unpowered person. I just would have been annoyed at that.
01:23:44
Speaker
Yeah. Absolutely. Yeah. Never forgive John for that. No, no. And also she's so easily like the one person you can't kill, like with your bare Yeah, right. like Like there's no fucking way One of the hardest motherfuckers to kill in this universe. um Yes. Just the redundancies out the wazoo.
01:24:04
Speaker
Out the Yeah. So the story behind it makes sense. And it is. a tragedy of burnout, you know, somebody overwhelmed and in a tough situation.
01:24:16
Speaker
And so it all kind of makes sense. Um, but I, I still, i don't know. I'm, I'm sad for Yamada's character development just because she was such a highlight in worm and even in most of ward. And so having this like character failure feels worse than it might for another character. i don't know.
01:24:37
Speaker
think it's fine for your characters to be imperfect, but I kind of wish, there were more people like Yamada who were just like, oh yeah, like she just hasn't done anything bad. She's just a genuine, i don't know. I don't know if that makes sense or not, but.
01:24:51
Speaker
Did everyone read the at the kind of the end when, when Victoria is like, just straight up asking her, he's like, did you trigger? you have like a yeah trigger? Yeah. It's like the implication is, is no, was my reading, but I don't know if I yeah buy it, you know? i Yeah. I also read that as no. Yeah.
01:25:10
Speaker
Yeah, it wasn't implied no, but... Do we buy it? We don't know. Do we buy it? and don't know. I don't think but... As Fran points out, Jessica did steal 1v1 bone saw. Not many people can say that.
01:25:21
Speaker
That is true. That's true. Ended in a draw.
01:25:26
Speaker
Well, I guess... Yeah. She did lose her mobility in her arm. Jessica Yamada versus the Red Queen. the ultimate therapist versus the fucking immovable dumbass. Yeah, no, we did say in the last podcast how the most merciful thing Yamada could have done for Amy in that one interlude was just to shoot Amy. It was to throw her over the balcony. Yeah.
01:25:51
Speaker
Yeah. thrower yeah so yeah like Jessica Yamada would lose that. Like the only way it would be fair is if no powers, they went hand to hand because as we've seen, they did one V one there and Yamada just could not break the ultimate defense technique of Amy, you know, using ultimate denial as their special move. Yeah.
01:26:19
Speaker
Yeah, you know, i i to I guess to clarify, to give nuance to my take on Yamada, I wouldn't have wanted her to have killed somebody out of stress and anxiety.
01:26:32
Speaker
Yeah. Killing Amy because it's the morally right thing to do is fine. Yeah. Right. Yeah. Yeah. yeah yeah It really, I mean, that would be an interesting character thing of like, Hey, you've been, you, and I'm trying to think of other, other character was had one before this podcast that like, you try to do the right thing. You do the right thing. Everybody tells you it's the wrong thing. Like, you're going taking the hard route and at the end you go, oh okay, but what if I just made this exception this one time because it's actually the morally right thing to do. Like, obviously you shouldn't do that to everybody, but like, this is that one time where like the morally pure character goes, actually, you know what?
01:27:19
Speaker
Yeah.
01:27:22
Speaker
You know, it it is the, as we talked about the Batman problem where it's like, Batman, you just keep throwing him in Joker in jail and he keeps getting out and murdering people. Eventually that's on you. Yeah.
01:27:35
Speaker
Exactly. You don't do that in this universe for a reason you get, you're like, okay, you got out of jail like two or three times. He's going into forever prison.
01:27:47
Speaker
So you wouldn't have necessarily have to tell anybody. That could be a deep, dark, shard space secret that you just ganked somebody and just stuffed them in a but box somewhere. Like, you don't have to tell people you killed Joker. You don't have leave his carcass in the street.
01:28:04
Speaker
Well, other thing. You can tell people. ah That's one of those very morally justifiable things. I'm pretty sure everybody would be very okay with that. And the other thing would be, like...
01:28:15
Speaker
Also, you that's not something the you have do alone. You just you could get some you know some certified stamp on that, you know approved. ah I think everybody would be okay with it.
01:28:27
Speaker
That seal of government approval.
Negotiations and Political Tensions
01:28:29
Speaker
Oh, yeah. I do love that. Or responsibly denying.
01:28:37
Speaker
i do ah i do love that meme of like Batman's code. It's like, god I'm not going to kill He's like, well, my my life is terrible and I don't have enough money, so I had to take this job as a goon for the Joker.
01:28:51
Speaker
Hope nothing bad happens to me. Oh, God, my back is broken. yeah I don't have health insurance. What am I going to do, Batman?
01:29:01
Speaker
Just kill me. Yeah, for real. no i don't In this economy? yeah yeah
01:29:13
Speaker
17.5 into Amy's tries to negotiate with Amy to convince her not to send to the Gaborim Knight to fight the machine army.
01:29:25
Speaker
She fails, but Victoria succeeds in convincing Amy to send in the Mother of Mothers instead. Dear God. What name? The mommy of mommies.
01:29:38
Speaker
The mommy of mommies. So ah continuing on J.C. McRae's Wild Bows Hebrew theming, giborim is a Hebrew word meaning mighty man.
01:29:51
Speaker
ah So david King David famously had a squadron of giborim or mighty men. And so, yes, yes, yes. Also stand for like just the greatest or top tier um because the lions that they fight and stuff um are also considered Gaborim like lions.
01:30:14
Speaker
so Yes, yes. ah Sidebar, my... Or like a dire wolf out there. You're like the Gaborim wolf. ah Yes. and My sidebar here is ah my favorite was always Benaya.
01:30:28
Speaker
Um, and I, I got very close to convincing my wife to name my son Benaya. Um, to name our son. I said my son, like he was mine only. our I know what you were thinking.
01:30:41
Speaker
Um, and, uh, but, uh, the reason he was my favorite is and we don't know much about him except he did two great things. One is he jumped into a pit on a snowy day and killed a lion with his bare hands.
01:30:54
Speaker
Um, Which makes it sound like he was just walking along, saw a lion in a pit, and was like, I can take that. And the other is he killed a giant Egyptian with his own spear.
01:31:09
Speaker
insanes Pretty badass. Two mighty man-like seeds that he did. Yeah. anyway and And your wife did not go for these names? his name No. what about What about our man with the ox code? Killed like 600 people with the ox code?
01:31:26
Speaker
That was a judge. That was a judge who did that. Oh, you're right. You're right. Yeah, Alan, get your biblical references. I'm so sorry. That was, ah what was his name? I used to know his name.
01:31:37
Speaker
Shamgar. Shamgar. Yes. Shamgar. You can't see it right now, but I'm just shaking my head. Hey, listen, I am nothing if not a treasure trove of useless information.
01:31:50
Speaker
like the Nick, Nick, it's not useless. It's great for naming children, as we've established. Great for naming children, great for trivia night on occasion as well. Oh, man. um um Anyways.
01:32:05
Speaker
i ah yes i have a letter I'd like to read. who Go ahead. As you know, I don't take notes while I read. I just react violently and throw things in pace sometimes while listening to the audiobook.
01:32:18
Speaker
ah But I wrote this down. No, no, no, no, no. no no It's like when suddenly we're friends with Crowley in Supernatural. If Victoria is okay working with Amy, then something is wrong. And I've...
01:32:33
Speaker
I've ah underlined something is wrong three times so hard that I ripped through part of the paper at one point um with three exclamation points. And something is wrong is written in all caps.
01:32:46
Speaker
I was down that. No! No, I don't. already I do not like this. No, no, no, no, no. doubt Chapter. I was like...
01:32:58
Speaker
things and i Did I just miss something? Yeah, I just played the sound of you saying no no, no, no, no. But I guess you didn't hear it. Oh, I did not hear it at all. That was very upsetting. Start over, start over. I interrupted you.
01:33:13
Speaker
I'm so upset. Go ahead, Go ahead. go out andnna go it Okay, well, basically, when we started the chapter, just very, like... So Victoria's been saying this whole time, Master Stranger Protocols, and I'm like, that's valid, of course, obviously, Amy. Yeah, that's ah that's a problem, you know, of course.
01:33:37
Speaker
um And especially coming out of shard space, I think that like we do need to be ah very much aware of Victoria and her connection with her... with her passenger and there's some, you know, she's suddenly weirdly more connected and like, okay, we need to keep an eye on that. That's probably really important. But for her to be suddenly so okay to be on a call with Amy and like to be part of, like, what do you mean?
01:34:04
Speaker
do you mean that you're just going to hop on a call with Amy? Oh, yeah, we'll just work with Amy. And so going into this, I was like scared for for Victoria or scared that we were about to find out that Victoria was like in immensely fucked. And we just hadn't realized it this whole time.
01:34:25
Speaker
um Which, you know, that didn't quite play out that way. But starting out with her being like, yeah, sure, let's get on a call with Amy. I'm like, what do you mean sure?
01:34:36
Speaker
do you mean sure? and and I can only relate it to Supernatural because I am watching it for like the seventeenth time. Of like, ah, yes, remember Crowley, the demon of hell, the king of hell, the one who killed everyone, literally everyone in front of you?
01:34:52
Speaker
And we're just going to work with him now? Like, what do you mean? what What do you mean? We're not Dean Winchester. We're we're Victoria Dallin, and we hold grudges for longer than that. And yeah so I started off this chapter in a very dark place.
01:35:08
Speaker
Very suspicious place. Yeah.
01:35:13
Speaker
It does get better, though. It does. It does get better, especially as it becomes clear that Victoria's goal is to try to manipulate Amy and not really work with her. that gets much better. I feel much better.
01:35:26
Speaker
I do feel that, though, because it does this is one of the better chapters in the sense of like narrative tension where you're like, we know how stubborn Amy is. We know how hard this is for Victoria. Yeah.
01:35:39
Speaker
and just that the This is where the dialogue really clicks, I think. Unlike the Kidwin conversation we talked about before, where there's a lot happening, a lot of story being built, and it's all almost entirely through dialogue or internal monologue.
01:35:53
Speaker
But it really clicks here because there are so many stakes and the tension is really high. um yeah it's It's more well done here, for sure. Yeah, because you've got everybody in two rooms.
01:36:06
Speaker
You've got Like, not just, and when I mean everybody, I mean like multiple teams in a room, like on their side. You've got the interests of the Shin politicians, Amy's evil villain crew, and Mark.
01:36:26
Speaker
And feel like there was somebody else over there beside Mark. that was like hero adjacent or with. um Then on this side, you know, you've got Victoria leading the talking along with the psychologists right there.
01:36:46
Speaker
And, you know, her mom and, and, and also all of the other wards hanging around um wardens.
01:36:58
Speaker
So like there's so much the main conversations just between Amy and Victoria, but they're like having to pause and negotiate and, you know, unmute and remute and pass notes. And you're right. Like it's, it's such a tense moment where they have a good, uh,
01:37:17
Speaker
primary focus with all of these adjacent interests and ties all around them. um And they are essentially negotiating a, us like, a you know, a bombing run.
01:37:33
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. Like, and even with that, you've got so many things going on. Not only do you have the worry that like, Oh, your monstrosity is going to run into the neutral monstrosity over here.
01:37:45
Speaker
But in doing so, it breaks, you know, and causes the doomsday. We're all worried about. So like, Oh, there's three different things to worry about just with those there. Like,
01:38:00
Speaker
yeah And those are the stakes. So like, oh man.
01:38:07
Speaker
Yeah, Amy has her has her biological father and her you know adoptive father sitting on both sides of her shoulders while that's going on. imagine Just like Kronk's shoulder angels.
01:38:20
Speaker
my first love them. so so mark mark is fucked Like, as in, like, Amy fucked with him?
01:38:33
Speaker
Fucked? Yeah. even ive Yeah, I think so. Like, because he's just, I think it was just the way that he talked to her um last time in that little interlude bit. Like, just that he's so, like, okay with her.
01:38:50
Speaker
Either that, he's a really good fucking liar. And I can't tell ah because I don't know enough about him. But I don't think Oppresso Espresso Marky Boy is that good of a liar.
01:39:02
Speaker
Being around Amy all the time. And like even the whole thing of like, no, touch me. I'm not lying. but i'm see I'm being honest. Like, um... No, this feels like...
01:39:15
Speaker
how he like like when they got there and they were like oh how's amy doing and they both were like are their cameras on or like no and they're like fucking terrible right that's true yeah it was like oh you know things are okay here okay how are they really oh my god amy's in such a worse place i did not realize you were totally right what the fuck Yeah, yeah, i think I think that may be more what it is, right Because all the Shin government is there. um Yeah, also so we forgot about the Machine Army. yeah The Machine Army is Hey, look who's back. So there's a fourth thing on anger involved. You know what I will say, you know what i will say though, to to contradict Fran a little bit, they are negotiating against the Machine Army.
01:40:02
Speaker
But from the way it sounds, it sounds more like Amy is saying, you guys have held the line against the machine army, but we want to eradicate the machine army. And Narwhal's like, whoa, whoa, whoa, hang on. like Do we you just want to send this all-powerful giant you threw into this army that we know can assimilate creatures into it?
01:40:22
Speaker
Like, it doesn't sound like the Machine Army is doing much yet. I just want to say, I don't want to get too excited, basically, is all I'm saying. I'm also not convinced until we get a fight.
01:40:34
Speaker
um Yeah. yeah It sounds like we've been perpetually nuking the Machine Army back also. Exactly. Yeah, when you nuke them, they hide in essentially spatial density, and then they can, like seeds, they can reemerge after a good, you know, glassing.
01:40:51
Speaker
So... Yeah. um Yeah. I mean, okay. So who are the giants that are active right now?
Ethical Implications of Amy's Powers
01:41:00
Speaker
Right. We have the Gaborim Knight, which is um the Chevalier giant.
01:41:04
Speaker
We have the mother of mothers, which is the nursery giant. Right. I believe is the nursery one. And then there's a mama Mathers one as well. There is a mama Mathers. Yep.
01:41:14
Speaker
And then there's also a goddess one. yeah Which is one that we didn't think we'd let the... yeah I did not remember thinking Shin would be okay with that.
01:41:27
Speaker
Yep. Exactly. Yeah, that seems like a weird choice for Shin to be okay with. Yeah. Hey, you know what? I guess... Who knows? Maybe Amy's touched all of them. Well, there's also that talk about I think it was teacher and they even mentioned it in here that like teacher had done the thing where he he'd exposed everybody in Shin to Mama Mathers at one point in time through like the mass ah media.
01:41:52
Speaker
yeah Yeah. Right. Right. Right. Yeah. That's true. Yeah. Yeah. He brought her over. Yeah. Basically got her on camera on camera for, you know, a press event that everybody's seen and she was just in the background and that's all it takes.
01:42:06
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. and Observe all of them. What a, what a crazy power. um Yeah, i also want don't want to miss, ah Fran said, Wildbow has this underrated ability to make the most infuriating guy ever, ah which would be Eric in this chapter as well, I believe, who is meant to keep an eye on Victoria and ask her some questions.
01:42:30
Speaker
He's the last chapter, I believe. Fran,
01:42:36
Speaker
fra maybe you don' know how god usss got the how Amy got the goddess DNA. You know. what between Chris's teeth when he ripped her fucking head off
01:42:49
Speaker
honestly I was gonna say I mean listen if she's got a vi ah ah Victoria patch maybe she's got patches for all her exes you know that's just like a little bits of you know so like Mary Shelley kept Percy's heart in her coat you know It's like, like you know... Oh, no! Oh, my God!
01:43:16
Speaker
Jeez. Yes. Yes, Jacob.
01:43:21
Speaker
I made myself throw up. That's gross.
01:43:28
Speaker
Fabulous. ah The mind is truly a fabulous thing.
01:43:34
Speaker
Yeah, so it's is it just... It's just the four ah Giants at the moment? So far. So far, but but but they're like... They have a lot more in the wings, they said, I think, right? Can ramp them up.
01:43:46
Speaker
Yeah, something about like... Rough four start with. 10 by next week or something, 15 the end of the month or something. I forget. Mm-hmm.
01:43:59
Speaker
Crazy. Dang. Yeah, which... you know so I love that ah you we get into like bringing people back from the dead, and I will go back to we are doing all of the things. like Bringing people back from the dead is just another extension of all the stuff that is going back on right now.
01:44:23
Speaker
So you have ah shards brought back um essentially given over time, a human form from shadow to actual physical form. And they drag the memories with them. You have physical creatures grown around shards.
01:44:45
Speaker
Like essentially, which is our Gaborum night and all of the monsters ah that Amy and Chris are creating. um you have, I mean, you have some people who are just, you know, like Victoria, who are just getting more in touch with their shard, um which we'll talk about in a second.
01:45:06
Speaker
And let's see, what else do we have in terms of, I mean, because yeah, the monster things feel kind of like you take Mr. Hugs and you put them in this world. Oh, and then also ah the Kronos Titan.
01:45:21
Speaker
Yeah. the dog Can't forget about him. Which has not done anything and yet appears... now is moving.
01:45:32
Speaker
Hasn't done anything yet up to this point. Okay, I was going to say did it up until this point. It has remained non-moving for so so very long. With the Simurgh sitting you know on his shoulder. yeah Which do love the note of like all of the cameras are posed to look at the Dauntless Titan so that the Simurgh is obscured. right like You can see because similar to Mama Mathers, just looking at her can kind of screw you up.
01:46:00
Speaker
So, you know clever, clever mention there. i appreciated that. Yeah. Yeah. Hey, it's messy. um I do. One of the moments I really like, though, is I feel like Victoria finally got to say something.
01:46:16
Speaker
um And she was just like, Amy, shut the fuck up. Stop arguing with me and just listen to me for one goddamn second, you bitch. it's yeah like all right. trying Pretend to help you. And you can't even let me do that. You bitch.
01:46:36
Speaker
Exactly. Yeah. And she clocks like she she sends a little note to ah to Narwhal. but She's like she's high not like on drugs just on her own supply. She's just like she's just so full of herself right now.
01:46:54
Speaker
Use that. You can manipulate the shit out of her. Yeah. Yeah. I love it. I doesn't i but I think that note even comes around to the to the therapist. They're just like I mean, just gotta the thumbs up from the corner.
01:47:13
Speaker
it is It's an interesting position because obviously as the audience, we know how much of a psychopath Amy is. And like, Victoria knows.
01:47:23
Speaker
And a handful of other people know. But... I think who, I forget who it who it is who kind of like, not defends Amy, but gives her like the, well, she was, you know, helpful when we had the crisis and, you know, they've been, they've been cooperating.
01:47:38
Speaker
It's Eric. It is Eric. Yeah. Okay. Eric later. That bitch. But yeah. But like, I realized i was like, oh I guess that is kind of, probably the default right now is like, yeah, we're not going to trust her, but I mean, you know, she's, they've been they've been nice to us, you know, it's kind of, a Victoria has so much work to do to convince everybody that she's the worst. Yeah.
01:48:01
Speaker
yeah i'm goingnna I'm going to draw the comparison um with that because I think i think you're right. If you're an average PRT warden person, what do you know? That she was working there.
01:48:13
Speaker
She was kind of double-checking the work for ah the two villains in the basement. So she was... more of a warden ah you know on your side and then she just happened to take all the villains and go over to this other world where she has you know set up this whatever she's got going on there which also seems weird but sort of beneficial for everybody you so you're like ok like You don't know what she does, and she used to be a hero before that, so you're just like, ah, the world ended. you know
01:48:43
Speaker
and Things are rough out there. I'm sure she's doing what she thinks is right. You don't know that she's personally a nutjob. um But I wanted to bridge draw the comparison to her between her and...
01:48:57
Speaker
ah Griffith again from Berserk because the more I thought about it they're like top for me top two villains of all time um and I realize is because they have a lot of in freaking common um and it brings up a big big dilemma that we see with both of them.
01:49:19
Speaker
ah At one point in time, way later in Berserk, spoilers, um after all of the terrible stuff that griffi Griffith has done, ah they catch up with him and they find that he is the leader in what is essentially a utopia he has created.
01:49:37
Speaker
um It's called like Falcon or Hawkland or something like that. um And it becomes frustrating for them because the people, they don't want to break the the veneer of this utopia by saying that their leader is just has committed personally to them.
01:50:02
Speaker
Some of the worst things you can do as a human being, because in this entire town or it was a city, he's made it a safe haven and they're thriving and everybody probably wouldn't do so well without him.
01:50:22
Speaker
On the same hand, you have Amy, whose power is to help people. And right now she's doing something that possibly could be extremely beneficial to everybody involved. But on a personal level, how do you go like as Victoria, like say like, okay, I know that she's doing stuff that is benefiting everybody a lot of the time.
01:50:46
Speaker
But you have to know that she's the devil. Like, yeah. And that's that's such a hard... Ooh.
01:50:58
Speaker
And ultimately, you can't trust her motivations, too. Because I think that motivation is such an internal thing that you don't necessarily see with people. So you can see somebody's actions and not necessarily see their internal motivation or, like, what drives them. And then, like, the...
01:51:18
Speaker
Obviously, the goal would be that your internal motivations are like, well, you want to help people and you want to you know, be a contribution to your community. And, and you know, as opposed to I'm doing this, you know, for fame and for glory. And it's like this question of like, well, does it does?
01:51:35
Speaker
Does it matter if the end result is that you're saving you're saving the planet again from, or not the planet, but thinking the multiverse, whatever, from yet another problem that has arisen because of powers and because of things? And it's like, well...
01:51:55
Speaker
It might seem like it's fine, like she's helping, but the problem is is that Amy's motivation is so warped and like Amy herself is so fucked that like it didn't take Carol and Mark long, spending time with her, to be like, oh, she is deeply unwell and someone that unwell should not be in such a large position of power.
01:52:22
Speaker
Mm-hmm. And it's it's interesting. there's a There's a part I can't quite remember when Amy's like talking about um like all the good that they can do. And she's like, and my, colleague she says my colleague, she doesn't say lab rat because that would put her in a bad light. She says my colleague. And I do have oversight. I have my colleague and I have Marcus here and I have, you know, um fucking biological dad. What it the fuck is his name?
01:52:52
Speaker
Marky? Marky? Not Mark. um No, Marky. Sorry. Yes, Marky. I'm like Mark. and Mark and Marky. I thought you said Marky like Marky Mark. No, but it's Mark and Marky. It's Marky and Mark, you know?
01:53:07
Speaker
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. That's Jacob calls him Markquist. She's like, I have these people. Markquist. But she's like, I have these people here. Like, it's fine. And the government, you know, whatever. And it's look at all the good we've done. It's like.
01:53:23
Speaker
Okay, but if you know the truth about Amy and about her mental status and like what what lines she's willing to cross because of what she's convinced herself, then how okay are you letting her lead the charge like this? And if you...
01:53:40
Speaker
if you knew, you'd be like, yeah, no, she doesn't need to be in charge. But nobody knows because they just don't, they just don't know. Or they don't believe Victoria because they believe Victoria is a bias against Amy, which of course she does, obviously, but, you know, rightly biased.
01:54:01
Speaker
But, yeah, yeah I, that feeling of like, okay, well, even if, Amy's making bad, you know, doing things for the wrong reasons. Like, should she be allowed to help?
01:54:17
Speaker
And I think the answer is no. But, i mean, not up to me. yeah It's, ah there's a lot to work with here, yeah and including in chat.
01:54:31
Speaker
um You have Fran who reminds me, like, she's casually curing cancer every time she shakes hands with somebody. Right. Right. Which is a, you know, i guess a good thing.
01:54:44
Speaker
And to be fair, i at the end of the day, outside of a personal person to person thing, I don't care what somebody's motivations for something is.
01:54:57
Speaker
It is the result. Because that's politics. though the end The perfect politic is getting somebody's everybody's selfish motivation in line with the common good.
01:55:12
Speaker
It doesn't matter the reason, as long as we're all doing the right, the good thing that helps everybody, you can have your different motivations. Everybody's probably going to have their different motivations, whether that it's avoiding the punishment of the law or the benefits that they see in society or just being a nice person or maybe helping their immediate community or family or something.
01:55:32
Speaker
um you know ah Bernard also points out it sounds a lot like problem with Victor Von Doom um how does the country Latveria that he governs do the sister citizens there know he's the devil even though that country is doing really well and he's the reason for it um right you know i think in that case they actually do know that he's kind of a mad scientist guy and they're like yeah But also our lives are great, so like... Yeah.
01:56:06
Speaker
We're not going to complain. And he just acts like an insane person outside of the country, basically. Yeah. Yeah. And you're like, listen, my president could... If I had...
01:56:19
Speaker
free healthcare and universal basic income my president could try to take over the world all he wanted pretty thanks pretty simple comment to that i'm here i'm here for it we've got uh also fran pointing out that like eric is a centrist he's like i'd just like to know amy's side of the story hear everybody it's like yeah okay man i Yeah, I was wrong. That isn't 17 six because he gets a shout out in the summary, as well as Jessica talking about strangling bone saw. We kind jumped the gun on both of those, but that's fine. Yeah.
01:56:54
Speaker
But yeah, no, Eric, Eric is the worst. And he is an absolute centrist, which the joke about centrism, right, is like a centrist is just a person who leans towards the right, but doesn't want to admit it.
01:57:06
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. It's a cowardly right-leaning person. is like Yeah. yeah
01:57:17
Speaker
Yeah. um i don't know I don't know. There's not much more to say except Amy's the worst. As usual. Continues to be. um But hey, at least Victoria got through to her a little.
01:57:32
Speaker
You know, somehow. Somehow. somehow
01:57:38
Speaker
Shall we discuss 17.6? Yeah, let's do it. 17.6. Let's finish this night off with a bang. With Just... No, no, quietly. It's quietly, Alan. It's quietly intended. Oh,
01:57:59
Speaker
um no.
01:58:05
Speaker
Anyways, 17.6. Chevalier stops Dauntless' advance. Eric questions Victoria, who gives her perspective on her teammates. Jessica recounts her time away.
01:58:17
Speaker
Victoria gets benched, but has a one-night stand with Annalise. Fully not. Who says it has to be a one-night stand? It's not. um All nights are composed of one nights.
Victoria's Personal Moment and Humor
01:58:32
Speaker
You know? Wait, I feel like both of those things that we just said were very important, and I need you to each repeat them separately, please. Jacob, you first. All I said was all nights are composed of one night. so i just said it's it's no moose, but I'll take it. Annalise is a solid second pick. Yeah. oh yeah Yeah.
01:58:56
Speaker
i love... i I love how... ah confident Annalise is at first when she's like, i i know you've been giving hints, and he's like, yeah, blatantly giving hints. And and it and yet do it she's like as soon as she's like, all right, I'm interested, it just crumbles. He's like, I mean, are you sure? Yeah.
01:59:16
Speaker
Yeah? Okay. So sweet. He's so great. I love him so much. Gosh, is' so such a cutie. And I love that he's like, we need to talk about this. And she's like, we don't need to talk about this. And he's like, no, no.
01:59:32
Speaker
We do, actually. we actually do need to talk about this. Boundaries are important. Like, bless this man for not being like, yo, let's book. Like, he's like, no, no, no. Let's just real quick. We'll run through the the boundaries. Just real quick. I promise we'll be fast. Like, bless this man. Man, after my own heart.
01:59:49
Speaker
I kept thinking of, uh, during the boundaries bit, it was in the Brooklyn Nine-Nine meme, right? with the With the crazy cop Pimento. Yes. He's like, all right, here's the ground rules. You can kick me, punch me, pull my hair.
02:00:04
Speaker
You know, uh... I forget what the whole bit is. Wait, hold on. anything off the table? I actually... i used to know it. ah Oh, God. Damn, I'm actually really pissed off that I don't remember it.
02:00:20
Speaker
I just let it end like, oh, there's something really freaky you want to try, huh? All right. yeah Don't tell me.
02:00:28
Speaker
Oh, Here are the ground rules. Wait, what... you can You can punch me, kick me, pull my hair. I am A-OK being stabbed. Biting and scratching are on the table. You can use fire. These are the ground rules? Is there anything that's off limits?
02:00:47
Speaker
Damn, man. You got something real sick you want to do, huh? hu Little pervert. All right. I like it. ah um Which is where that one soundbite I have comes from. the Oh, you little pervert. so Oh, good. Oh, I love it.
02:01:06
Speaker
Well, speaking of little perverts, let's just start this off by talking about Eric. Eric.
02:01:18
Speaker
What weirdy. I'll say his one in his defense He was fucked from the get-go in in Victoria's mind because she was not putting up with double names, especially since, you know, having having lost Eric and being reunited with a bunch of other people.
02:01:40
Speaker
um he wish He was like, yeah, not or not a real Eric. I'll tell you that right now. um So I don't think there's any way this could have gone well for him, but he continued to dig a grave.
02:01:54
Speaker
He really did. He yeah did not do well for himself. For sure. um Yeah. What a bitch.
02:02:07
Speaker
Yeah. My note says, and he's a bitch. That's that's it. yeah Did we... well he he He had a power, right? He had like a thinker power or something?
02:02:18
Speaker
no is he just No. He's normie. He's just a fucking normie. He was he like, I was an intern with the PRT for a while and now, you know, I'm just helping. me deal Yeah, I've been Cyril's assistant.
02:02:31
Speaker
I get her coffee i her coffee order. Yeah. Alan, I feel like you might, this might be true. um but And tell me if this is true. I feel like I heard about this trope. It's a military trope of like,
02:02:44
Speaker
The officer who hasn't seen a day of like real boot camp, who like went to school and gets like hired as an officer in the military and just the people under him have like no respect for him because it's like you were you were like you were in a so like you were in a comfortable seat for a long time and you just, you know, you got this job, but you like none of us respect you. You didn't earn it kind of thing.
02:03:09
Speaker
There's name for it. don't know if that's a real thing. no, it is. It's more so in, like, there's a character I'm thinking of in ah and Band of Brothers that when he becomes a colonel, he has a guy that essentially just hands him paperwork all day ah for Colonel Winters.
02:03:31
Speaker
And, like, he's giving him... or major winters at that time. And he's like handing him paperwork all the, all the time. Um, and that would be your like Steve Rogers before he got, uh, powers where he probably didn't pass fizz, but they need everybody they can for stuff. Yeah.
02:03:52
Speaker
Uh, so that's what he does is he just, you know, works under there is, there is a word for it. Uh, officer's aid.
02:04:04
Speaker
Yeah, it's an aide. um Okay. That makes sense. It's McGee, you mean? Yeah. should we yeah Anytime you hear aide in the military, it's somebody who just does paperwork.
02:04:18
Speaker
um Like the only fun one is the chaplain's aide because unlike a chaplain, they're allowed to carry a gun.
02:04:27
Speaker
nice It's funny. So you're like, oh, I want to do the Lord's work, but also shoot people. Chaplain's aide.
02:04:41
Speaker
Holy paladin. Yeah, yeah except except they are also, they it's chaplains, so they're like the worst kind of religious. I didn't say it was good holiness. Like cult leaders are above chaplains. Let's just put it that way.
02:04:59
Speaker
ah It could go either way. um Yeah. Yeah. No, he's just the worst. The worst.
02:05:13
Speaker
He keeps pushing, pushing, pushing. J-Man says, I remember liking Eric, but I can't confirm because I didn't read 17.6. You must be thinking of somebody else, J-Man, because there's no way. Yeah, assure you.
02:05:24
Speaker
Yeah. It must be a different Eric. You must be thinking of Chevalier. Chevalier was great in this chapter. I wish we got more of anime, Blade, Chevalier, Cannon Blade, Anime. Yeah, oh yeah. Anime. just Nick just getting so hard for Chevalier in this whole chapter. All the time. Every time.
02:05:41
Speaker
Listen, nothing. Yeah. No, he he stares at her boobs for too long, which like, OK, you give somebody a little one up, one down. All right. that you You're looking at him. OK, fine.
02:05:53
Speaker
You linger on her boobs. You fucking back off, bitch. And then he he just like, when she tries to talk to him about shit, he's just like smirk. her You can't see the faces I'm making, I realize. ah but But yeah, no, Nick is making the perfect faces for the sounds that I'm making. Yeah, but sure. Yeah.
02:06:14
Speaker
Yeah. Uh-huh. Sure. um Yeah. Fuck you, my dude. God damn. J-Man clarified as a character, not a person. That's valid. He is he is a great character to hate. Oh, yeah. right now Yeah. yeah And when he tries to touch Victoria, she smacks his hand away, but with her power.
02:06:36
Speaker
oh well that was such a good moment yeah and actually scares him a little bit like good yeah good but also for her for her didn't didn't kill him you know yeah didn't break his fucking arm are so proud yeah um yeah no I don't think it was it was close to her but the image I had is she's in a you know in a cubicle like this and he's like reaching right here to like point at the screen or something but it's right by her So as soon as she sees it in her peripheral, you know, i love that that she's like, I slapped his hand away, but not with my hand. And it took me a second to realize that I hadn't, you know, taken my hands off the keyboard or anything. Love that.
02:07:19
Speaker
And she was like, I should probably be worried about it, but fuck him. Fuck it. You know, ah that's pretty cool. Worry about that later. Yeah, exactly.
02:07:30
Speaker
What do you think that those hands could do later?
02:07:37
Speaker
but Yeah, that's that's the noise I was looking for. No. I don't think the force field was on. Well, no, she did say she brought protection, so maybe it was on. You know.
02:07:52
Speaker
never know. We know it can't take repeated hits.
02:07:56
Speaker
No. There's a joke in there. No. I think that is's a joke. There's a couple of good jokes in there. Oh. ah yeah You gotta push through it.
02:08:10
Speaker
You gotta just, you know, bang through the depression. That's right. If there was a title for this chapter, that's it right there, Hannah. Couldn't have said it better myself. That's funny. Did you just play another soundbite of me that I couldn't hear? Yeah.
02:08:26
Speaker
yeah Yeah, I probably have soundboard muted. You must have. I don't know why. I don't know why I'm here. No, it's not muted. We'll fix it later.
02:08:39
Speaker
It was a good one. You'll have to rewatch the episode. should be pulling it up on YouTube right now. um Yeah.
02:08:50
Speaker
Didn't get any damage like Carol. You're right. he got he got away pretty lucky. But, ah you know, we end the night off like we said Talking to Annalise.
02:09:02
Speaker
What is your Annalise Victoria pickup line?
02:09:17
Speaker
Nothing, really. I'm trying to something back to the hilt.
02:09:25
Speaker
Okay. What was her actual pickup line? Was just the, was just the, I'm also interested. yeah yeah Yeah, I don't think there was a record. Except there's some ground rules. First, no talking. Second, yeah yeah no touching.
02:09:41
Speaker
I touch you don't. yeah Yeah, I touch you don't. You sit there, you shut the fuck up. And he's like, yes. say He's like, I have one role. She's like, yeah, that's a lot of talking for something we've already gone over. It's like, can we actually keep it down? I have neighbors. She's like, yeah, I'll allow it.
02:10:04
Speaker
also we just got Really, that's on you more than it is me. I'm not going to be making any noise and you sure as hell better not. We got to give it to Annalise. My boy was ready. he was like like we know We know Victoria needed it, but he was already unbuttoned in his shirt. like oh oh yeah See a need, meet a need. That's what I always say. Sign of a real hero. I love i love that he tries to take his shirt off and she's like, no, no, I'm taking it off.
02:10:37
Speaker
Like, alrighty. Alrighty i'll right in
02:10:44
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. ah I do love... i I don't know much about ah Wildbo's personal life, but I feel like he writes awkward sex scenes really well.
02:10:59
Speaker
yeah Like, between this one and the Taylor and Gru stuff, where it's like, it's like okay, there's a... like there's I feel like a knack for making it awkward, but not...
02:11:11
Speaker
Yeah, awkward, but not so awkward. it's painful, more realistic, like you said. It's like like, oh yeah, this is like... Very human. She's like, I haven't done this in a while. i i i got ah i got the supplies, so you don't need to worry about that. It's very logistical.
02:11:30
Speaker
Yeah, very logistical. She brought her own go bag. Yeah, exactly. You gotta bring your Tahoe bag. got to This is like, I know for other people, this is like, oh, that's really awkward and weird. I'm like, no, this is just how bog standard interact, like one night stand hookups should be. That's just, that is the the way. This is the pinnacle.
02:11:52
Speaker
The pinnacle? and Maybe not pinnacle. What's the word? Like the ideal. It's just like, this is what I think. i trying What you're trying to say, Nick, is that clearly wild bofucks. yeah very clear The man knows.
02:12:07
Speaker
Listen.
02:12:09
Speaker
I don't know. I don't know. You know, Jessica. You know. That cock be my crazy. not could be a crazy no no we We have no chance of ever having him on our show, do we? He burned that bridge long, long, long ago. TJ on my seat till I go McCray.
02:12:32
Speaker
i No, I hate it. I must i bus protest. I must protest. That's so stupid. You should go wild on my boat till I worm.
02:12:48
Speaker
No! Woo!
02:12:53
Speaker
My god. I'm the greatest. He it was judging you so hard earlier. we just talked in And he was just staring at me. Father, how could you?
02:13:06
Speaker
oh Bran says that there's a scene in another serial where halfway through we find the find out the person was inside the other the whole time. What? What? No. No. standard no You say that, Fran, but there's knowing the worm universe and the greater serial universe, that could mean like four different things. Are we talking like an echidna situation? are we like is this i just like Is this like a Tristan and Byron situation? Like, come on. Tristan and Byron situation? like Being inside of somebody can mean so many things. In this world, this is as you yeah what this is as i know as nebulous as making a baby.
02:13:44
Speaker
It's true. it's true Usually i ah I don't have to fully age lock our content, but you know, this time I'm going to have to 18 year old up this one. A bit messy. Sheesh.
02:14:01
Speaker
Alan, how could you? Once again, it's not our fault. if this If these are the chapters he wants to write, I mean, what type of content when he's going to get? You're not wrong. let's see it yeah I'm just sharing how I feel.
02:14:14
Speaker
How I feel is horny. Hell yeah.
02:14:21
Speaker
ah It wasn't a judgment statement. It's just, you know, here we are. yeah and There's something about unlacing, analace. You can unlace my pants. Something like that. We'll work on it We'll fix it.
02:14:35
Speaker
du fix Unlace. You can unlace Yeah. my yeah No, i don't I don't like it. i don't... I'd rather...
02:14:45
Speaker
i have that I want to leave. you got You got a glory on that girl. at any point it's make i would like we we We can stop.
02:14:56
Speaker
No, no i'm I mean, listen, it can be broken down into this. I'm so, so happy that Victoria got laid. So, yes so happy.
02:15:08
Speaker
The girl fucking deserves it after everything. And then finding out that Dean this whole time was Cauldron and he lied to her about his his trigger. Like, motherfucker, what a bitch. And now all of those those memories are tainted. Oh, God. Yeah, no. Go get laid.
02:15:25
Speaker
and have a great time enjoy yourself and then do it again tomorrow and then again the next day because Annalise is cool and I like him a lot and I want more of him around yeah I think Victoria does too yeah which you know what that means by Wildbo's rules he did no no
02:15:50
Speaker
like wild bo operate in like slasher horror films where like there's some weird puritanic like puritanism going on where it's like well if you have sex obviously you have to pay for your sins by getting murdered oh my god or amy iss just going to find him and give him like erectile dysfunction or something
02:16:14
Speaker
What the fuck? With my sister? no limp Never again. All right. Well, with that wonderful ending, that happy ending, we have the rest of arc 17, which means after this, we only have three more arcs to go.
02:16:41
Speaker
whoa Holy shit. It is ramping up. right Crazy pants right there. Yeah. Yeah.
02:16:52
Speaker
um So we are going read the rest of arc 17 in two weeks, which is Yep.
02:17:01
Speaker
yes Perfect. What a time. Today? Oh, my God. Yeah. No. Everybody say a happy birthday to Jacob in the comments. It's sometime. Oh, wow.
02:17:13
Speaker
oh Way to out me like that. Crazy. It's not today. it' not today. It didn't say when. Just, you know, sometime. but Sometime.
02:17:26
Speaker
In the area. Exactly. ah where's Where's the Sam? Don't forget. Yeah. all right Sorry. Wait. Wait. Wait. but wait what What? Wait. Hold. Holy shit. I'm old. There we go. Oh, my God. You're so right, Jacob. Perfect.
02:17:42
Speaker
ah right I'm going to be working on in the interim building up that Wormnesia a game show.
Community Engagement and Interactive Content
02:17:50
Speaker
I'd like to get as many of our ah other hosts to compete in that. And if it goes really well, maybe that's something we invite a couple patrons on for. to see i' I'll make some new questions and see if we can't yeah test ah testssed out on us to start our...
02:18:12
Speaker
our worm knowledge, and then move out from their unity yeah their acid going on there. It's going to be... i'd be fun <unk>s They're going to ruin us if they join us because they clearly know more than we do. We can't remember anything. No, no, no, no. We got to do our own separate thing so that we don't get absolutely roasted. That's why we have to adjust us first. Exactly. Yeah.
02:18:34
Speaker
Yeah. Well, that's what I was like. After that, it would just be, you know, patrons against patrons because obviously we would or maybe just have, you know, patrons versus like one person. And it's like the are you smarter than ah a podcast? Are you smarter than a podcast? That's not a high bar.
02:18:52
Speaker
The bar is in the ground. Or, you know, or this is one of those things where maybe it's like a we have it. We do it live. And one of the options is you're not allowed to look at it, but you can phone the chat.
02:19:03
Speaker
Right. isn't that how Isn't that how are you smarter than a fifth grader worked where you had you were paired up with one fifth grader and they could like help you? I don't think it was exclusively one. I think it changed around. I felt like. Yeah.
02:19:18
Speaker
yeah yeah maybe We'll we're work with one of those. We can work with it. Give us your thoughts in the in the pat in the Discord. Yeah, yeah. Give us your thoughts in the ah Patreon content. I'm going to be working with like a Jeopardy style for now. um Maybe with some buzzers, but who um we're going to see what systems are out there.
02:19:37
Speaker
More than just Kahoot, maybe. so I did see the the original system with which inspired Alan to then create this. And it's very freaking cool. And i Alan, if you make it anything like the one that we were watching, the Warhammer one,
02:19:53
Speaker
That was freaking cool. So i I'm very excited to get all of them wrong. I can't wait. Yeah. Because as we know, the Wormnesia is strong with this one.
02:20:07
Speaker
Yeah. Before only the brilliance of it is the difficulty would go up for the more points. ah So maybe, maybe what year did Behemoth attack, the first attack would be a question. We'll see.
02:20:19
Speaker
um i've got ah I've got some ideas. But all that being said, ah let's go over to ah the... new Nobody had bingos. I didn't have any bingos. No bingos? Once we got, we're having a smidge of respect for Carol. Michael has to reel them in.
02:20:40
Speaker
a big yawn. Someone jokes about Carol's condition. Nick goes full teacher slash parent. Alan rants. Cat on screen, fuck Eric, and Jessica disappointment.
02:20:52
Speaker
What we did not get was that they go past 10.30 p.m. EST, Jacob is a cinephile, someone forgets who Dauntless is, Hannah cries, Narwhal disappointment, Milk, and chat can get Nick to say Kaiser.
02:21:09
Speaker
Amazing! Not time. i't that' no i would not i would almost give and I would almost give Jacob Ghostwulson a file because I did throw the deconstruction question at him. yeah it was glorious I very much appreciate it. Still doesn't bingo. Yeah, that was fun. um So, everything said, don't forget to join our Patreon for all that fun content. And Jacob, and not Jacob, oh my gosh, Michael, do you have a song for us? Sure.
02:21:47
Speaker
Join the Patreon Please come on in Join the Patreon Why don't you just join the Patreon Come support us and join the Patreon Please help us in
02:22:10
Speaker
says I noticed you have drawing hate are not happy alright we will you on the 22nd right yep for the rest of arc 17 thanks for joining
02:22:22
Speaker
us tonight the twenty second right yep twenty second for the rest of life arc seventeen andisonison for joining us tonight Yep. Talk to us in the Discord about our Patreon ideas. And thanks so much for joining.
02:22:48
Speaker
Join the Patreon. Please come on and join the Patreon. Why don't you just join the Patreon? Come support us and join the Patreon. Please help us and join the Patreon.
02:22:59
Speaker
We have fun. Join the Patreon. It's great now. Join the Patreon. Why don't you just join the Patreon?