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Listener's Unpopular Bookish Opinions Pt. 2 | S3Ep11
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Part two of airing out our listener's unpopular bookish opinions! We discuss if we agree or disagree with your hot takes on narrators, book couples, tropes and more!
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Follow Brandi @Brandos.Books
Follow Kendra @Kendra.Readz
Follow Kayla @Kaylas.Bookshelf [
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Transcript
Introduction: Unpopular Bookish Opinions Part Two
00:00:05
Speaker
Hey guys. I realized I was like drinking as we started. Welcome to bring your own and catch up with the show for time podcast. I'm Brandy. I'm Kayla. I'm Kendra.
00:00:21
Speaker
And today we are doing unpopular bookish opinions apart too, which is so exciting because there were just so many good ones that we could not fit them all into one episode the first time
Current Reads and Listening Habits
00:00:32
Speaker
around. So we're happy to be revisiting this topic because it's also very fun to discuss these. Yes.
00:00:38
Speaker
I agree. But before we do that, what are we reading? What are we drinking? I am drinking water. So I need to hydrate my body. It feels very... I feel like... I keep saying this. I feel like SpongeBob when he's dehydrated. The water! Every morning. Yeah, every morning now when I wake up, that's how I feel. Are you good, Kendra? Yeah, that's how I feel. I need to stop drinking. This is the issue.
00:01:02
Speaker
And then I'm listening to Flirting with Forever by Cara Bastone. It's the last book in her original romance trilogy that she published through Harlequin. And this one so far is my favorite story-wise and narrator-wise because they finally got like a decent narrator for this series. And then I'm not eyeball reading anything. I'm like in between stuff right now. So yeah, we'll see.
00:01:27
Speaker
I am also drinking water. I don't think I feel quite as bad as Kendra, but still need to stay hydrated, right? And I just started two books. I started The Summer Will Be Different by Carly Fortune. It's her new book. I really enjoyed every summer after her debut. I didn't love her second book, whose name I cannot
00:01:56
Speaker
I like that one and now I'm feeling the name of it. But I really liked. Yes, maybe it's like second half was good. Debatable. But this one I. You even told me that when you read it. I don't remember. I'll be honest. Now it's to be. I don't actually remember. I have to go back and like look at my review because.
00:02:14
Speaker
I don't, I literally don't recall. Anyway, I'm interested in this one. Like I'm only an hour in, but like I'm intrigued. I'm entertained. So we'll see what happens. And then I also just started a fantasy novel called, Where the Dark Stands Still by A.B. Poornick. It's also like a debut, which I didn't realize, but I'm only like a couple of chapters in. It's a YA fantasy. The pros are really, really beautiful. Like gorgeous, Gorgina.
00:02:43
Speaker
So I have good, yeah, Gochina. I have, I don't want to say high expectations, but like the bar has been set. So we'll see. Nice.
00:02:58
Speaker
I just probably like 30 minutes before we have time to record finished Old Flames and New Fortunes. So I am about to start a new audiobook and I am also between physical reads right now. So I don't know where I'm going next. But yeah, just finished Old Flames and New Fortunes. Did you like it?
00:03:19
Speaker
I did. There was something that happened that really soured a lot of the book for me, unfortunately, took it down probably like half a star, which I talked to Kayla a little bit about it because she's already read it. So I'll be interested to see how it affects other people's reading and if it affects it at all, like it might not. Did you listen to it? I did. Okay. How was the audio book? Good.
00:03:44
Speaker
Yeah, I can't remember. I've never heard of her. Okay. Yeah, but it was Yeah, she was good. Yeah, it was good. I like I enjoyed it. Like I definitely don't regret reading it. And if anybody wants to read it, I definitely say yes do. But yeah, yeah, this is one of those books where like
00:04:01
Speaker
I genuinely want to know people's opinions on because I enjoyed it. I want to know what other people think about it, what their takes are. So that's why I'm like, I think you should read it because I'm so curious.
Creative Characters and Series Potential
00:04:13
Speaker
I'm just curious. Everybody tell me your thoughts. I want to know. And if you decide not to read it, let me know so that I can spoil it all so that we can talk about it. Yeah. I'll probably read it. But I think you guys are the only two that have listed any sort of
00:04:27
Speaker
problem with it everyone else I've seen talk about is like oh my god I love it it sure has like a lot of loyal fans anyways so I know Kimmy really liked it some of my other mutuals really liked it so I'll be curious yeah I like I liked a lot about it like I think the way that the fake dating that book is done is so creative and unique
00:04:46
Speaker
and really fun. And also just like, she's so creative, like as an author, the whole idea of the main character being a flower for tuna, basically like reading people's love lives through like making flower bouquets. It's like witchcraft. You learn this all in chapter one. This is not a spoiler at all. But like, I was like, that is so cool. I've like Googled it because I thought this was like an established real like witchy practice that people do. No, like she came up with this. I think that's so cool.
00:05:14
Speaker
I didn't know that. Or at least I couldn't really find anything else relating to it. I might be googling the wrong things, but I was just like, that is so cool. I read a book recently where the girl was a legit witch and her power was through flowers and stuff. I forget the specifics, but she probably just like,
00:05:36
Speaker
combined a lot of stuff. Yeah, took some things and like merged them. Yeah. But it was like really creatively and fun. And like, it's going to be a series. So that should I'll I didn't know that either. I think I mean, I'm assuming based off of the way that it like her sisters are presented in the books. I think it's going to be three books for one for each sister. Oh, yeah, duh. Yeah, duh. I forgot. Anyway, what are you drinking, Brandy? Did you say? Oh, no, I have an iced vanilla latte.
Debating Romance Novel Lengths
00:06:03
Speaker
love yeah should we just like jump right in let's do it okay i'll read the first one okay so again we asked this has been like maybe two months ago now since we asked people for unpopular opinions we did our first episode so if you haven't listened to that one make sure you go back and check that one out this is part two so first one is from another anon we had a lot of anons
00:06:28
Speaker
contemporary romance novels should not exceed 350 pages. When they get to be like 600 pages plus, I'm like, why are we still not together? Why are we working to overcome another conflict? Wrap this up.
00:06:42
Speaker
We didn't talk about this last time. I think I've talked about this then, I guess. Yeah. I think this is like a lot of things that people have issues with romance books in that it can be done well. You know what I mean? So I'm not going to say like as a blanket statement, I agree, but I definitely have read long romance books where I'm like, oh,
00:07:04
Speaker
There's another issue. Like, so I understand what they're saying, but I disagree that all contemporary romance needs to be at 350. I think it's just a trend on KU. That's I mean, to be long romance books or what do you mean? Yeah, because they get more money. The longer your book is, the more page counts. True, true, true. That's why you get these. I hadn't even thought about that, which is like, I get it. It's a business, but it's like you have to make it work. AKA Mariana Zapata really good at making it work.
00:07:34
Speaker
So I yeah, I. It entirely depends on what's going on in the book, who the author is, if, you know, like as an example, Magnolia Park's books are long or at least they get longer as the series goes on. Yeah. And it's really into the dark. That's like the only long one.
00:07:56
Speaker
Yeah, that's true. Well, I think in long way home is like 500, isn't it? I can feel like it doesn't feel like it though when you're reading it. Yeah. That's what I'm saying. If it doesn't feel like it, I really don't care. Lauren Asher books can be really long, but like what every designed it was like, what is it like 450? It's close to that. Maybe even 500. I don't know, but like you don't feel it. Um, especially if you're listening sometimes and you're five, five, wow. Especially if you're like so engrossed in the story. Like I'm not thinking about.
00:08:26
Speaker
Yeah. How long the book is? I think it works to only like, oh, I mean, not only, but it usually works when it's a slow burn. Yeah, yeah. Because like, if they're fucking like 30%, I think that's why Becca Mac's books can feel really long because it's like, lover. I'm gonna play with me Stan, but like, that's a long book. Yeah, yeah.
00:08:47
Speaker
I agree. I also think that like, when it's not interconnected standalones, that also benefits whether it's a standalone book, all on its own, or like the series, Hispanic stuff, you know, the addicted series to like all like almost all of them except for the first two are over 350 pages. And again,
00:09:07
Speaker
those books don't feel long. So, but then I think about those Lucy score books that I haven't read. Yeah. Like what is she doing? What is going on in those 600 pages? Yeah. Yeah. Like I have to know. Yeah. Like with the Addicted series, it's one of those things, same with Magnolia Parks and you know, lots of other series that we've read, but like, I care so much about these characters that I'm like,
00:09:28
Speaker
Give me all of it. I'll read literally anything with these people. So it just entirely depends. Normally, I think normally if I see a romance book that is super, super long, I'm like, why? Let's see. But if it's by an author that I love and trust, then I usually get excited. It just entirely depends. It's so weird because I feel like in fantasy, people don't even blink.
00:09:57
Speaker
like 900 pages, you know, like, I don't know. I get the rules are different, but it's like, huh. Yeah. Yeah. I, I agree. I do think like part of it is because of like world building. That's like taking like whatever, but you've read fantasies and get everything done. Exactly. Like I'm like, I'm never looking forward to picking up a 900 page book. Yeah.
00:10:17
Speaker
Like I'm never like, oh, I can't wait to read this long ass fucking book. Like I will do it. And then once I'm in it, I'm in it and it doesn't matter anymore. But I'm like, I do like, that is the reason I haven't read Brandon Sanderson, you guys. Like I want to so bad. But you're telling me I need to read a thousand page book, three 1000 page books in the same series? Fuck no. I'm not doing that. It's Bible pages. Bible pages in.
00:10:38
Speaker
Yeah, even Clockwork Angel like that book is not long She got straight to the point like it can be done But it's like people have the expectation of a fantasy of like it needs to be 700 plus because now like all the rest of the books in this series are just fucking gigantic Yeah, I mean Poppy Wars the same way. The first one's really short. Yeah
00:11:00
Speaker
So I think our consensus is that it depends. It depends. Yeah, maybe we sort of agree with you and just depend on the book. All right. I can read the next one.
Favorite Characters and Personal Tastes
00:11:10
Speaker
I don't understand why everyone loves Julian hates by anonymous. And you never will. It's the girls who get it. Yeah. Sorry.
00:11:23
Speaker
I'll say this. I'll do this. If you read the first Daisy hates book and you're like, I don't really get it. Like, I can understand that because I was the same way. Not that I was like, I don't get it. I was just like, yeah, I like Julian. That's it. Like, I wasn't crazy about him. I think it's really until you get to I mean, Daisy hates to for sure. But long way home, I was I was starting to be like, oh, thank you. Um.
00:11:48
Speaker
Yeah, a non you're bold for posting on disagree you're lucky you're not really knowing that you're lucky you're not you're like Julian hates girlies Like a group chat is called the Julian hates sister wise. Yeah, he is my favorite character in that entire series. So Mm-hmm. I named my dog. Yeah him watch like like watch yourself
00:12:11
Speaker
Yeah, I like I wonder if people feel this way because like people have a hard time rooting for people that we don't know like their end results for, you know what I mean? Like you can make an educate like we know, yeah, Magnolia DJs end result and we can make an educated guess about Daisy and Christian. But like with Julian, it's so much is up in the air right now that like I wonder people are like just unwilling to throw their weight behind them. I want to know this Anand favorite character in the series and their favorite book in the series. And that would tell me everything that I need to know.
00:12:42
Speaker
Cause like, imagine if it's BJ. Yeah. And then I'm like, Oh, then you just hate that. You just hate Julian. I don't know. Maybe you, maybe you have legitimate reasons for not liking him that I just won't ever agree with, but maybe it's because of what happens in Daisy hates one at the end. Like who, I was that way too. No, but like literally like, I just like, I don't know, especially with, if you've read the grade on doing like, how can you still get stuck about that?
00:13:10
Speaker
Yeah. What's that? What's that TikTok sound? Like when you, you know, when you're talking about BJ, like what's the six ones like it's okay to love them both. I did. Yeah. Like it's okay. That's, that's me. I do love Julian a little bit more than BJ. Oopsie. I do actually. I don't know why I'm saying a little, it's a lot. Yeah. It's a lot. Yeah. Like, like you said, I would do the gap, like how you did the gap in your heavy humanism. I think there would be a gap in my, not as big, but a little bit.
00:13:40
Speaker
between Julian and everybody else. Yeah, especially the men. Yeah.
00:13:44
Speaker
Yeah, I feel that I'm the same way like Christian. It's like Christian gap everybody. We should do that like an Instagram post. Yeah, we're where our gaps in our favorite characters. Oh, yeah, we should. Okay. All right, Kevin, you want to read the next one? Yes. I'll take an inexperienced MMC over the reformed playboy any day and that was by Sarah's dot booked.
00:14:14
Speaker
Interesting. I 100% agree. I think it's fun because it's just. Inexperienced or a foreign playboy? Inexperienced because especially I'm assuming if it's an inexperienced MMC, then they mean that like maybe the girl is a little bit more experienced. Not that the girl's a play woman or whatever, but just that they have a little bit more experience. Play woman. Yeah, I just think it makes it a little bit more fun. It gives the woman a little bit more power.
00:14:44
Speaker
And then like the teaching aspect, I don't know if that that's necessarily a part of the book, but I just think it makes it a little bit more interesting for me, I like because I'll read like almost any trope and can have a good time, you know, but for me, reform playboy is one that like I there's.
00:15:02
Speaker
books that I really love and there's books that I absolutely hate with Reformed Playboy and I feel like it has to be done a certain way for me to like really have a good time with it because it's the same thing with like the internalized misogyny of brother's best friend stuff. I'm like if you're saying you didn't like think of women with respect until you met this person that you fell in love with like that
00:15:21
Speaker
is an issue for me. Like just like, oh, she's just like, like none of these women had faces to me. Like they were just bodies, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Like I don't like that in a reform play by a book, which I feel like there are quite a few that I've read that are like that. They're like, oh, I didn't think about like committing to a woman at all until I met this person. But I think if it's, you know, just like they didn't have a connection with anybody up until then, like that's like a different situation, you know?
00:15:47
Speaker
I feel like it can be done well. That's a long way of saying I feel like it can be done well, but I've read so many where it's not done well that I, anytime I see reform playboy, I'm like, wait. Gives you pause. Yeah. I don't like prefer one over the other. I do like inexperience, but I was just thinking like, I don't know if I've ever read an inexperience where it's like not sex lessons or like it's not like, or it's not equal footing inexperience. That's what I'm trying to get at where it's like,
00:16:16
Speaker
I mean, I like when girls have a lot more experience in books than the guys, but I don't think I've ever read one where they both were kind of like, what are you doing? That's so true. Yeah. They're both like, I've read a lot where they've both been very promiscuous throughout their lives. Or it's like one is usually more than the other. But I want one that's like, we both kind of don't know what we're doing and then we're going to figure it out together. I think that would be very sweet. That's very sweet. Someone make that happen. I think that's also really realistic too.
00:16:46
Speaker
Yeah, I think that's super realistic. It reminds me of, I saw this tweet that was like, it like makes me so upset that the scrub mommy has to be both like a scrubber and like have a soft side when the scrub daddy just gets to be like, whatever. Cause I'm like, cause I was like, even in books where like the guy has less experience and the girl has a sex lessons and like all the work is like on the girl to like educate this man.
00:17:14
Speaker
When it's like, I don't know. I was like, like, what about you? Yeah. That's so true. Because like, like you said, there are a lot of like, Lizzie Blake popped into my head. Like both of them were experienced. Like it wasn't, you know, and that was like a one time hookup supposed to be a situation like that. That would be nice to have like two people who just are, you know, a little clumsy. Yeah.
00:17:42
Speaker
Wait. We should do another build around it. We should. Do you guys have though, just kind of going back to the prompt, do you have a favorite inexperienced MMC book?
00:17:55
Speaker
or just one that you can think of because I'm like having a hard time like coming up with some I mean there's a Rachel and Solomon one where like it yeah and then today tonight tomorrow no business or pleasure but today yeah she does a lot I think I actually do prefer it in YA a little bit more because when it's like opposite in YA I think it leans very misogynistic yeah
00:18:19
Speaker
Oh, Helen Huang, the second book. Oh, yeah. It's literally like on display. Yeah. What's that? What's it called? Yeah. Yeah. Oh, I love that book. And I actually love the conversation around him being inexperienced. That happens. And like, that's my favorite one. That's a good one for sure.
00:18:43
Speaker
All right, our next one comes from Destiny who's bookish with bomb berry.
Appeal of Slow-Burn Romances
00:18:50
Speaker
If the couple in a book ends up together too fast, yawn, I'm bored, give me pining. Yes. Agree. Yeah. What is like a perfect like what's what percent is like a sweet spot for y'all? I guess it depends upon like if you mean like they're like together together and they don't break up or
00:19:12
Speaker
know like the classic things are looking good at the 60 to 70 percent mark, shit happens you know at 80 90 and then they get back together at 100. It just depends. Obviously there have been books where they've gotten together like you know close to the 50 60 mark and then the conflict isn't them breaking up it's something else and it feels more believable but it just I think it depends on the structure of the book for me. If it's meant to be a slow burn I don't want them together until the end.
00:19:40
Speaker
You know, yeah, yeah. I think like, again, yeah, it depends again. I love like an early hookup.
00:19:50
Speaker
but they're not together. And then they're not together for a long time, but they like already know they have sexual chemistry. So there's a lot of pining that's happening. And then they end up back together around like, you know, between 60 and 70% kind of thing. Yes, I love that structure. Like I was eating up every time because we get to a glimpse of them having like good sexual chemistry. Even if we don't get like a full sexy, we just like know that they have
00:20:12
Speaker
that like physical chemistry alongside then building an emotional connection. I think that's also like realistic to life sometimes is like you have like a physical connection with somebody before you build that emotional connection. So I do like seeing that in romance books as well. But if it's going from like just no hookup at the beginning, like any time after 60 to 70%, I think it's a sweet spot for me. Yeah. You talking about the,
00:20:39
Speaker
them hooking up at the beginning and then like building that. That's another reason why I think we all love Reckless is like we're introduced to their chemistry so quickly, but we don't even actually like see the full hookup until like later. But you're like wondering the entire book. You're like, oh my God, what happened? Like I need to know what's going on. But like you can tell like their chemistry is crazy.
00:21:02
Speaker
And then once you finally get it, it feels like, Oh my God. Yeah. Yeah. I guess it also like depends on the trope on top of it all. Cause like I was thinking of like Winn and Bow. I mean, they weren't like together together, but it's like, I don't mind if they're, I don't know how to say this, like, cause I hate in books when like they're waiting to get them together and like they barely spend any time with each other, you know? But it's like, I like in circumstances.
00:21:23
Speaker
make it to where they have to spend a lot of time together and they're also aware that they could have something. That is what I like. I don't like the late realization and we barely spend any time together. Right. I think if a character gets knocked upside the head with their feelings and they're like shocked about it, there has to be a lot that goes into that to make me believe.
00:21:43
Speaker
that it's genuinely a surprise. Like again, Mariana Zapata does that pretty well too, like where they're like, you know, like, I don't know, building out friendships first out works best for me and friends to lovers because you like, you know, can realize it slowly. But I was thinking about and when as well from Out on a Limb when I was thinking about like the early hookup. Force has spent a lot of time together. Yeah. Yeah.
00:22:04
Speaker
I also think this is kind of. A little bit different, but when we're talking about like a fantasy series and the fantasy series, let's say is like five books and the couple gets together in the first book, I'm like, what's what's going to happen? Why are we doing this? Why are we doing this, you know? Yes. So, yeah, so that's a little bit sus to me, especially fantasy. I think it can work in contemporary romance case in point, you know, like addicted, the addicted series.
00:22:36
Speaker
Because they had a lot of external confidence. Fantasy, it feels a little bit different. Right. But I agree. If they're together too fast, they're just together together. They're hooking up. They're calling. Everything's fine and dandy. At 40%. I'm boring. OK. Next one comes from our friend Monica, who's monies.bookshelf. She said, I like unrequited love when it's done right, AKA Nova and Lila.
00:23:03
Speaker
Brandi, what do you have to say about this one? This is like your thing. I would love to see Unrequited Love done right for me. Just kidding. You haven't at all ever? It's a me thing, you guys. I know that about myself and so many people love Inked in Lies. Personally, I thought that was...
00:23:21
Speaker
I'll tell you what my issues with that book here's like a little spoiler so skip forward 15 seconds if you don't want to hear this but like it took her getting engaged to somebody else for him to like get his shit together like that like that's so like you just don't want somebody else to have what you wanted like that feels so shitty to me I don't know
00:23:37
Speaker
There's always something like that. What does it take? It takes an outside force. It's not just you seeing the value of this person, especially if you're friends and it's unrequited and they know. If it's unrequited and the person doesn't know that you have feelings for them, I think that can super be done, right? But if they know that you have feelings for them and it takes something happening outside of him just seeing your inherent value as a partner, I don't know. I think I have some own personal trauma with it too.
00:24:07
Speaker
Obviously, and like I've talked with Selena about this. She's like, oh yeah, me too. That's why I like reading it. Like it's like healing to see people like get their happy endings with that. I'm like, I just think about how I acted when I was in an unrequited love situation and so fucking humiliating to think how I was acting that I have a hard time seeing characters go through that. Even if they do end up getting the happy ending.
00:24:29
Speaker
When you like look back on the situation, like this is where I've struggled with unrequited love because I don't think it ever has to like get to like the love part. You know what I mean? Like I can have a crush on you and I can like like you, but I don't, I hate when like they're like, I'm in love with you and this person doesn't love me back. Like I don't, that is like, what's hard for me to wrap my head around. Yeah. Cause then I'm like.
00:24:47
Speaker
what? Like, I don't know. I feel like you have to like, you could be infatuated with this person. But like, it's always a love part where I'm like, I think you need to like be in that together in order to like really feel like in love with them. So
00:25:01
Speaker
And my unrequited love situation when I was in college was my ex-boyfriend. We broke up and then we were doing this on and off, back together, are we not kind of thing? And he was not where I was, because I was still there. Yeah, it wasn't like you had this crush on this person. Just a random person. And never had anything with them. And that is the part that I'm like, and I guess with Nova and Lila, they were good friends. So I think it was easy for her to confuse a very strong platonic love with
00:25:28
Speaker
romantic love. I think she just like took it both and like ran with it. I just I just don't like that. That's just I really don't I don't like seeing it played out. I don't think it. Yeah.
00:25:39
Speaker
Have you ever seen it like in a book done to where you're like, okay, I can get behind this. I just like, I can't think of like one where a man is like, cause like I've read books, we don't call like the love hypothesis unrequited love though. We call that a man being down bad and like having a crush and like whatever blah, blah, blah. You know, we don't call that unrequited love. So I can't think of a book where a man is in like unrequited love.
00:26:02
Speaker
with a partner yeah and usually if he is like it's like someone he doesn't end up with i feel like it's like why are you still in love with this girl like yeah like let me help you get over this girl kind of thing yeah like exactly like so like why why does it always have to be i do feel like some people find it healing to like read that like people are getting their happy endings after all of that but i'm just like
00:26:22
Speaker
don't you wish better for your past self? Because that's what it is for me is like, I wish better for little Brandy who is in that horrible, shitty situation. Like I wish somebody would have shaken my shoulders and been like, you deserve more than this. Because that's what I want to do to every character who's in unrequited love. I want to shake them and be like, you deserve somebody who sees your worth immediately. Yeah.
00:26:41
Speaker
That's why like I think if it's like at the crush level, oh my god I can like I can totally see that like I've had tons of crushes on people that probably don't even like know I exist but like that's fine cuz I'm not in love with these people and then it's like they were to come around like oh like then we can fall in love to get there but yeah it's
00:27:01
Speaker
Love you, Monica. Hey, girl. Hey. And lots of people love that book. I just don't get it. They do. I know. That was one of my least favorite fallen books. I think we talked about that when we did the episode. But yeah. It's my second lowest rated one. The next one is, when authors have a love triangle, readers shouldn't pressure them to make their faves in-game.
Authorial Intent in Love Triangles
00:27:23
Speaker
Authors know their characters and their plots best. Anon, I hard disagree.
00:27:28
Speaker
I disagree. Really? Yeah, I disagree. I mean, maybe I agree with the pressure part. I don't always agree with the authors know these characters and these plots. Interesting. I don't necessarily disagree. I don't know. I would like to hear what because this book series exists called The Summer I Turn Pretty and
00:27:52
Speaker
And anyone that reads that second book and goes into that third book, you're like, what the fuck? Like, Jenny Han, quite literally, what were you thinking? I know what she was thinking. She was like, oh fuck, I want her to end up with Conrad. But I just spent a whole book inside Jeremiah's head listing out all his motivations, what he would and wouldn't do. So then I have to like retcon his character and make him an asshole. And that's why a lot of readers are upset, because we're like, you told us one thing, and then you did another.
00:28:21
Speaker
you made us fall like you it wasn't even like a gotcha it was like oh you fucked up so i don't agree with that they always know their plots and characters best because how many books have you read and you've been like why did the character do that after especially in series you're like what like they would have never done that
00:28:38
Speaker
Just because I don't know, Kendra, because I'm curious, since you have read the series, for the people who have actually read the Summer I Turn Pretty series, not necessarily people who've also seen the TV show, but just the books themselves, do you think that more people are team Jeremiah than they are team Connor, or do you think it's evenly split? I think it shifts a lot.
00:29:00
Speaker
I think it ships a lot. I would say like I would want to believe that it's like evenly but then because the thing is like with Conrad Gurley it's once you start listing all of his lashings it's like oh oh they don't spend any time together in that series at all he has one good moment on a beach at the end of book three that I'll give him credit for but everything else to make Jeremiah so unlikeable she had to ruin his character imagine doing that
00:29:26
Speaker
I don't think she had to do all that if she didn't, if she wanted her and Conrad together that badly. Conrad is a loser. He's such a loser. And I can't wait until that, that show comes back on. I'm actually terrified. And no, literally like me, Kimmy, Lomi, Jamie, like we all talk about this. Like Jeremiah was him. He was him. Don't make some anyways, luck triangles. So I think it's fun. I think they do that on purpose. Like,
00:29:53
Speaker
What is the point of having a love triangle if you don't want people to go like, oh, I want this, I want that. I also just think it doesn't matter if we pressure them. They're gonna do what they want. They're not gonna see people on the internet be like, oh wait, they like this person? Let me change my whole plot. I think sometimes they might do that, but yeah, they like, for the most part, guessing these things. I also will say that
00:30:19
Speaker
except with Samurai Turn Pretty being a very bad exception. I will say that every time that I've read A Love Triangle, I don't think that there's ever been a point where I didn't see the writing on the wall and been like, oh, this is really who this person is going to accept again with unless they ruin their character like Jenny Han does with Jeremiah.
00:30:38
Speaker
But I don't think that there's ever been a point where I've just not had this moment of realization being like, oh, they're going to end up with this person. If you want to get gagged with a love triangle, go to the infernal devices because. Yeah.
00:30:53
Speaker
I was, I was on the fence. Oh, that was, that was hard. Like that was hard. I loved them both so much. And there was a lot of times where I was like so sure of what was going to happen and then something would happen. I'd be like, wait, I also had somebody in my ear gaslighting me the whole time. So yeah. And listen, Cassandra Clare has the last laugh at that one. Like she really gagged everyone. So
00:31:16
Speaker
and thank her for it because that's the best situation. That was the best, anyways, go read it. I will also say in terms of like love triangles, except for again, like the infernal devices is a little bit different, but I don't think that I've ever been on, I don't want to say the losing side or that I haven't loved each character involved in a love triangle. I don't think that I've ever had a moment
00:31:45
Speaker
Unless that's like they're clearly clearly a villain. I'm just like trying to think like for example with Legendborn that series isn't finished but it is kind of a love triangle. I like each person in that quote unquote love triangle. I don't even know if it can fully be called that to be honest with you but like I enjoy each person so and you know same thing with Infernal Devices like I like each person so
00:32:11
Speaker
I don't know. I think in those instances, I do kind of trust the author. But there are also like, oh, like trust the author. Some of these authors aren't good. Like that's that's that's point. Well, if it's a good author, yeah, if they're a good author. But some. Yeah, I hate to say it, guys. Some of these some of these girls, they can't write that well. So I sometimes we do know and it reflects in reviews, even someone like like Joseph Hastings, who I think does Magnolia Park so well. Never. I'm sorry, I think I think
00:32:41
Speaker
I think we knew best. Yeah. I mean, I will say that one. I think that one is kind of obvious. Well, I'm not even talking about like in terms of a love triangle. I'm just talking about in terms of like, oh, the end of that statement of like the author knows everything best. Sure. And we were all able to rip that book to shreds and be like, actually. So to whether or not we agree depends on I don't agree. The series, the author. I think it depends for me.
00:33:09
Speaker
I mean, I again, I agree with the pressure part. Sure. I just like don't think it matters. That's my opinion on it is like, I just don't. Yeah, because like they're going to do what they want. So, yeah, I don't want to go. Yeah, don't be annoying. Yeah. But like if you're going to go like ride for a ship, that's part of the fun of being in a fandom. Mm hmm. This one is a two part and I feel like neither are related to each other. But oh, I see. I see. I see. Sorry.
00:33:39
Speaker
Yes.
Boundaries between Authors and Readers
00:33:40
Speaker
Uh, I don't like Julia Whelan as a narrator and the addicted series is not great from a non. Not that I don't like Julia Whelan. I don't like her doing certain things at times. Yeah. Um, I think that Julia Whelan shines best when she is reading literary fiction, very person point of view. Yep. Yeah. Like she does not for like romance books. Don't get me wrong. I love her as Alexis. Like I think she fits that tone really well.
00:34:09
Speaker
But like, I don't know, she doesn't like, she reads like she's reading like directions sometimes and like with romance and when it's in first person, I want her to have a little bit more personality. Yeah, and she doesn't really do that, which like I think why she's so easy to listen to for a lot of people, because her voice is really nice. But I want like, the hysterics sometimes like I want she can like yell
00:34:35
Speaker
Like, well, but like, yeah, I think there are other better romance narrators that like, I think Chris Vacker, like, runs laps around Julie when it comes to romance novels. Um, but Julie will probably, you know, run laps around Chris Vacker doing literary fiction third person. So.
00:34:51
Speaker
Yeah, what you said about her being easy to listen to is like right on the money for me because just like I know her cadence, I know her voice, like I just like that makes audiobooks narrated by her really easy to listen to. But whenever anybody asked me to write down all my favorite narrators for romance books, she's never on there. Like you said, though, like I loved her narrating, like she narrated a Gillian Flynn novel, which is like a suspense novel, which I really loved. And Yerba Bueno is one of my favorite audiobooks ever.
00:35:21
Speaker
I thought she did quite well in book lovers, but that's because I think she fits the tone of Nora pretty well because Nora is a pretty serious person, you know, so. Yeah. Did you like her as Daphne? Um, yeah, it was fine, but I was expecting Julia Whelan. You know what I mean? Like I knew what to expect from that. Like I think like whatever I rather had Brittany Presley doing it. Yeah, probably. Or Christine Lakin. Yeah, probably. But I, yeah, I've come to
00:35:47
Speaker
read Emily Henry books in her voice in my head anyways, if I'm physically reading it. So like I was expecting her as Daphne.
00:35:57
Speaker
Yeah, I think, yeah, just going into a book narrated by Julia Whelan, you already know what to expect. So your expectations, I think, are already set a specific way. So, yeah. And then the second part of the statement, the Addicted series is not great. You're just a hater. I think it's safe to say we disagree. Like, are they literary masterpieces? Are they going to win Nobel Peace Prize? No. Not at all. Are those ridiculously addicting and...
00:36:25
Speaker
Like gripping. Yes. Yeah, like I I blew that series I also think it's crazy sometimes when I think about how these books were written over a decade ago That's crazy. And I mean you can tell sometimes, you know in the pop culture references, you know like tumblr and you know things like that but I yeah, it's
00:36:47
Speaker
Do you know what I mean? They're addicting. That's it. I also wonder like if people who don't like those series don't get like super easily attached to characters like people who like more plot driven stuff rather than character driven. Sure. Yeah, that makes sense. Also, if you don't have a soft spot for unlikable characters, you probably wouldn't like that series very much because I think they're all pretty unlikable in their own ways. Fair.
00:37:09
Speaker
Yeah, we disagree a little bit on that one. Not a lot. Okay. Our next one from our friend Haley, who's at Haley's that house. Authors don't always need to be friends with readers on Instagram. It makes it less authentic. 110% agree.
00:37:28
Speaker
I think there's a way to do it respectfully and with a level of professionalism and that kind of stuff. I also think it's a little bit on readers to not idealize and put authors on weird pedestals to a level, but also it's very much on the authors to know reader spaces versus author spaces and how to conduct yourself in each. Not saying you can't enter reader spaces, especially if people are tagging you or DMing you about how much they love your books and stuff like that,
00:37:58
Speaker
but knowing how to act accordingly in those spaces I think is so important. Just like how we as readers know we shouldn't be tagging authors and like reviews where we're ripping their books to shreds like if they see it that's on them but we're not going to like tag them in it type of thing. But I agree as somebody who like very early on in my bookstagram journey like got like really close with an author and then was like well you are not who I think you are like you're a very different person than I think you are like I think I've like definitely learned my lesson with that.
00:38:28
Speaker
Yeah, I agree. Yeah, sorry. I mean, you said everything that we would have said. So yeah. Okay.
Narrative Styles: Third Person vs. First Person
00:38:37
Speaker
I am actually fine with third person. It doesn't bother me. And that is by Caitlin, um, wolves. I apologize if I pronounced the last part of that wrong, but I agree.
00:38:49
Speaker
I agree. The person is great. In fact, a lot of books should be written in third person that are written in first person. Yeah, I personally don't don't understand when somebody like I'll see somebody on Instagram be like I started a book but I found out was third person I can't do it anymore I'm like what do you mean like
00:39:09
Speaker
I don't, I guess I don't fully understand that I think for some people it just like takes like a quick mental switch, you know, just to like, get used to that. So yeah, I like third person. I mean, I again, I think that it
00:39:23
Speaker
If it's written well, then it shouldn't bother you. My thing is, is that like we'll get these books where they're written in first person, but then the character won't have a personality. I think that's the whole point of having a first person is like, like they should be talking in a way internally that like matches. Yeah. Like who they are. Like I should be learning things about them. Like I should feel like I'm their friend. I should like, I'm inside their head experiencing stuff with them. So if I'm, if I'm not getting that, I'm like, why aren't you like, you should have just written this in third person.
00:39:53
Speaker
person I think should have done that was BK Borsin but um I will say like this is like is so hard Kendra because like I think this is casual just like leaps and bounds better than the rest of the series because what you're saying like Charlie and Nova have very distinct voices okay and I think she does it so well in that one but even yeah into the weeds and stuff like that like yeah I agree with you there um I just like it doesn't
00:40:21
Speaker
I feel like I don't even register if it's in third or first like I don't like that doesn't even like I'm not yeah like I kind of agree with you brainy I'm kind of the same way unless somebody like asks me is this third person or first person I'm like wait I gotta like think about it for a second you know and I'm like oh okay this is yeah if it's if it's done well enough I don't even notice it
00:40:42
Speaker
Yeah, I don't even I don't I do notice but like I know it doesn't bother me. I'm like, oh, like this is inferred. This is in first. I think it's good when I do like when I really do notice because that means you're doing it. That's all say if it's done really well, I feel like I'll notice. But other than that, I'm just like, yeah. Yeah. All right. Next one.
Single POV vs. Dual POV
00:41:01
Speaker
I prefer single POV over double POV. That's from Muna underscore a wad.
00:41:09
Speaker
I think going back to our classic answer today depends. Yeah. Like it just like it really does depend. I think it just depends. I forget who said this, but it's like you do it to like reveal information, right? So it's like, if they want to keep a lot of things shouted about one character, then like, yeah, we don't need to be in that character's head. And so like, they are meant to be presented as a mystery. But then like, if it's equal footing, we're like, we need to find out shit about both people.
00:41:38
Speaker
then that's when dual POV comes in handy. I think a lot of people, and this will sound bad too, I think a lot of people don't write from that perspective though, especially a lot of up and coming people. They just automatically go in being like, this needs to be dual. Just because that's what they've read. But I don't think they're doing it for the actual benefit of the story.
00:42:00
Speaker
Yeah. I also think doing it just for the sake of like seeing a man be like pathetic in his head is like not even fun for me anymore. Like I like, I would rather like him secretly be pathetic. Like in not pathetic is the wrong word. Like down badly. I think of ready or not. Like, which I feel like we should like go through and listen to the episodes this season and see how many episodes of our 11. Were we done ready or not?
00:42:23
Speaker
But in Ready or Not, I'm so thankful we didn't have Shep's POV in that. Not only because the book was centered around Eve, and rightfully so, but also because we got to learn little things along with Eve that made the reveal of their romance feel so natural and sweet, and we worked for it. If we would have gotten Shep's POV in the second chapter where he's like, I'm so in love with my brother, that's so much less fun.
00:42:48
Speaker
Yep. I mean, same thing with like Emily Henry books, like book lovers, for example, my favorite. I don't want Charlie's POV. Right. Like there are things going on in his life that we're learning along with Nora and it would have just made it a lot. Like you said, a lot less fun. Yeah. Learn those at the, like at the very beginning, like, Oh, you just spoiled the whole surprise. So it just wouldn't have worked.
00:43:14
Speaker
Yeah, I don't necessarily prefer one over the other, but I think not like it, it serves the story very well to not do, do dual POV. And I think people who want dual POV in every book are silly. Yeah. Silly goofs. Silly goofs.
00:43:34
Speaker
Uh,
Book Release Schedules and Quality
00:43:35
Speaker
all right. Our last one submitted from y'all was releasing a book a year is bad for authors. They need to stop at our friend Haley again. Haley's not house a book a year. Well, I think that's like an okay time. Yeah. A book, a book a year, I think is fine. I think that's like what a lot of people need to follow at like for people who have been releasing like three or four a year. I guess I know who Haley was referring to. She's talking about Henry, which like, I agree with that one. I would love for her to take a break or either.
00:44:04
Speaker
hard shift directions and do something different, literary. I think she's gonna quickly run out of things to say, because she's not doing a lot of interesting stuff with her characters right now. So it's like, I don't mean that as like, like, okay, let me explain. Emily Henry is never gonna write someone that's like, like a, we said this earlier, she's never gonna write like an Abby Jimenez book where they're like experiencing trauma or like they have like, they're like, you know, they're never gonna have that extra stuff with their care. Like her cares are always gonna be pretty straightforward.
00:44:34
Speaker
she's gonna run out of stuff to say eventually so it's like hard shift do something different you have the traps to do it i think she does is emily contracted to do a book a year i think the last deal that she just signed was like a three book deal but i think she's big enough now to where if she were to say hey i wanna i wanna take a break Berkeley would be like okay then we'll just push your other books like a lot heavy because she said in her newsletter she was like oh i'm gonna i thought i wasn't gonna release a book in 2025 because i like
00:45:03
Speaker
just couldn't write. But now she's writing again, she's like, I hope I can get it out in time. So like, she can, I think she has a lot more control over her schedule than what we think. It's so interesting, because like, I think for an author like Emily Henry, like I understand what you're saying, and I don't like necessarily disagree. But then like, so I'm like, yeah, they need to slow down. But then it when it comes to like,
00:45:23
Speaker
a lot of authors that are releasing so many a year. I'm like, okay, slow it down to one. Whereas with Emily, we're like, okay, less than one. So it's just kind of interesting. It depends on the circumstances of why we're saying that they need to slow down. It's like people can do it. I also think Abby's so open about her process of the amount of care that goes into her books. And she has a lot of people that she's working with to put out these books.
00:45:51
Speaker
And so I think when you have like, I mean, again, I don't know a lot of these authors teams and like how they're made up, but just based on like what's public facing from her alone, I'm like, you know, if I'm very passionate about something, then yeah, I think the words would just fly out of me. And then like, I'm working with a lot of people to like make this story as good as it can be.
00:46:09
Speaker
I truly am so interested in Abby's day to day life because that woman does so many things. I don't understand. She has time. Like I just think about all the time what she said at that event that we went to in LA Kendra when she was talking about how like
00:46:25
Speaker
before she was fully published. She loves criticism. She would put it out, and she wanted people to tear her writing apart. And I just think that if you have that mentality before you even start publishing, I'm sure she still has that mentality. You know what I mean? Yeah, I don't know. I think if people are really open to the work and the craft, as somebody who's obviously not an author, I don't know what the process is like. I think that it's so possible to do more in a year.
00:46:55
Speaker
But yeah, I don't know. I know a lot of people are disappointed by Happy Place. I know a lot of people were disappointed by Funny Story. And so I could see people wanting, because I have seen such little criticism of book lovers, but a lot on people. You know what I mean? So I don't know. I also just think for somebody who is as masked and big of audience as Emily Henry, not every single book is going to work for every single person. I don't know.
00:47:23
Speaker
And yeah, I've accepted that too, as she's growing her backlist.
00:47:27
Speaker
I'm like, you don't need to grow it all at once. Like you can take your time and like, especially like, I think for me hearing like when she wrote Beach Read and then like the time in between that she got to like sit with that book and make it the best, like its publication date. Cause I wouldn't say she wrote it like towards the end of 2016, 2017. That book didn't come out until 2020. So it's like, imagine how much time you could like sit with that story and like refine it and like make it as good as like you want it to be and then put it out.
00:47:55
Speaker
So I think that's what I'm missing from her. Take your time. I think you just need to sit with the story. But then I guess it's different when I don't know. I don't know. I just want her to do something else. Coming from somebody who really loved Funny Story, I also would like to see her do something else just because I think she's capable of it. Yeah. Yeah. Because again, I love Funny Story, but it's not like I want another Funny Story next year. I want something else. I want something new. I want something exciting.
00:48:23
Speaker
And it's not just her, I think Ali Hazelwood seeing not in love.
00:48:31
Speaker
all that fleshed out compared to others. And they were like a check and mate and then bride and then not lovers. Yeah, she's been releasing a lot recently. But she had the benefit of a lot of, I think the first three, right, were all fan fictions of hers that she just had to tune up. Whereas like... Yeah, it is so interesting. Yeah. Because I can't think of any author where every single book I've read by them has been five star, five star, five star. Because even somebody like Abby Jimenez, where all the books I have read by her, I've loved.
00:49:02
Speaker
I haven't read her first two books, you know what I mean? So like, it's interesting. And I think like once you start, and like we might not even like Abby Jimenez's next book, like we don't know, right? Like, who knows? But I also think like, let us miss you a little bit, you know? Like, I think that's also what it comes down to where it's like, I want to miss you. I want to, I want to, because if you're putting out a lot and then it's like becoming more and more divisive, I think that's just going to work less and less in your favor.
00:49:31
Speaker
Or if you go away for a little bit, Helen Huang, where are you? We miss you. Don't take that long of a break. Don't take that long of a break. But yeah, but I mean, even like my brain just keeps going back to Emily Henry now that we're talking about it, like in that terms, but like, I still have the bad taste of happy place in my mouth when I started funny story. Like I went into that book so tentative and nervous, whereas like, I probably could have missed her a little more.
00:49:56
Speaker
But when I read that question from Hailey, like I read it as people should slow down to one book a year, which is not what she was saying. But I do think that there are some people who are releasing like six books a year.
00:50:07
Speaker
that could really benefit from slowing down. But I know, again, like we were just saying, it's also like a business when we were talking about page length. Like I understand, like some people just have to like do it for their livelihood, but I don't know. It makes me like wanna read, like if you're putting out six books a year and I only like two of them, I'm probably not gonna pick up your books very much. Yeah. And that's my thing is like, if you, and now I'm gonna think of like Colleen Hoover, I mean, but she's a little different, but if you write a good book,
00:50:37
Speaker
that one book can take you so far for so long. Last you a long time. And so we're like that way like you and I think that's where I was kind of trying to go with the Colin Hoover thing where I'm like she was writing a lot outside of that one book but like that book came out on like what 2016 was doing numbers people couldn't even fathom in 2021. It's still on like the New York Times bestseller list. That's not like I don't know I think yeah if you just write one good book
00:51:03
Speaker
That's okay. And then wait till you get inspired again. I don't want half-assed books where you're just like, we're talking about this pulling tropes together, just write something. I wanna see that you care because then it'll be a book that I never shut up about. I read Beattree almost four years ago. But yeah, I think you can take your time. Yeah, I think that might look different for every author. Yeah, and I think that's the thing. Yeah, it looks different. You know someone who takes their time a lot? Sierra Simone.
00:51:31
Speaker
Yeah, in ways that sort of pissed me off sometimes. So I'm like, she's but she's really prolific. And what is she doing? She's writing that Sinner St. Priest. Like, I'm pretty sure those are still amongst her bestsellers. And she's just been able to like, oh, for sure. Yeah, she's not putting out a book every six months. You know, she took so much time in between those books, too. And you like look at their publication dates, like Priest and Sinner and then from Sinner to Saint, because Saint came out when I was just joining on Book Talk and and Sinner had already been out since like, what, 2018?
00:52:02
Speaker
That's a long time. But like, we probably will get that fourth Bell Brother book in a couple years. Yeah. But like, we all agree. I think really great books. And so like, you can tell that like, I think that time worked in her favor. I don't know if Saint would have been as good if she like went and immediately wrote it after Sinner. It's like right that high. So I mean, it would have been a completely different book, actually, because of what Elijah is like, even talking about in that book, like it wouldn't exist without what happened in 2020. So yeah.
00:52:30
Speaker
All right, that was our last one.
Closing: Listener Engagement Encouraged
00:52:34
Speaker
So thanks everybody for submitting your unpopular opinions. We agree with some we disagree with some it depends on a lot of them. But thank you for giving us stuff to talk about and yep about. Let us know your unpopular opinion on our Instagram at bring your own pod hop in those comments. Let us know what your
00:52:58
Speaker
most unpopular bookish opinion is, and we'll let you know if we agree, disagree, or depends, like just be depends. Or if you agree or disagree with anything we said today. Also, if there's anything that you want us to talk about, chat about, yap about in the future, DM us, let us know. Yeah, we're always like trying to think of ideas that you guys will enjoy. So let us know. Bye.