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What do you call it when you have a side gig for 13 years that makes no money? If you're Ben Fust, you'd call it exactly what you were looking for. In addition to being the chief audio man here at the Uncommon Wealth Podcast, Ben also has his own podcast, is a house church pastor, Business Architect, and a family man.
In this episode, we're talking about how an uncommon path sometimes means clearing the way for side gigs that bring more than money. Plus, how to balance when there are multiple things you're passionate about, the simplicity of authenticity, and how to live a life of faith in a secular workplace.
To listen to Live From The Path, click here.
If you need some podcast editing help, click here.
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Transcript
Introducing the Uncommon Life
00:00:00
Speaker
Everyone dreams of living an uncommon life and the best asset you have to achieve your dreams is you. Welcome to the Uncommon Wealth Podcast. We're going to introduce you to people who are living uncommonly. We're also going to give you some tools and strategies for building wealth and for pursuing an uncommon path that is uniquely right for you.
Meet Your Hosts: Philip and Aaron
00:00:26
Speaker
Hello, and welcome, everybody, to the Un-Cominwealth Podcast, where I'm your host, Philip Ramsey. And I'm Aaron Kramer. Thanks for tuning in. We have an amazing show for you today. I always say amazing. We have an extraordinary show today. Yeah. We're leveling up, and here's why.
Guest Spotlight: Ben Foust
00:00:39
Speaker
We have Ben Foust on the online. Ooh, Ben. Online in studio. Yeah. I hate bios. So I'm going to make Ben do his own bio. Ben, you've heard his voice before. He was part of the 100th episode of the Un-Cominwealth Podcast. Yeah.
00:00:55
Speaker
And now he's in studio now, we get to pick his brain on many things.
00:01:00
Speaker
If any of my skills can be categorized, it's random, and so I think the many thing is correct. So we're not going to overcook the fish on this bio. So a rough cut of it. My name is Ben Foos. I do the tour of the knobs around here. I'm the audio man for the Uncommon Podcast here. I also have my own podcast called Live from the Path, which I stumbled into, have no particular skills in, but have kept up for a number of years. I'm a business architect, which is a fake job.
00:01:26
Speaker
I didn't make it up, but I didn't borrow it from, like, it's an emerging practice for Fortune Something Company. And so I do that. I'm also a house church pastor. And, well, I think that's the code of it. And a husband, husband being 10 years, and four children. Yes, four kids. Good
A Friendship Forged in Youth
00:01:44
Speaker
friend of mine. Fun fact, I don't know if we've ever said this, but we went to junior high together. Oh, wow. Actually, elementary school even.
00:01:51
Speaker
Oh, you were to Altoona Elementary? I did. Yes, you were in my fifth grade class. Yes. And I'm telling you this right now. Here's the reason you remember Philip. Like his hair has always been cool. And even in fifth grade, he sat down like that man has a cool set of hair. And I knew that I also was convinced because of his last name that his family owned Ramsey Pontiac. Oh, and so like I just kept I was waiting for you to mention it.
00:02:13
Speaker
Like it was going to come up in conversation, like, oh, by the way, I drove here even as a fifth grader. Yes. We've known each other since elementary school. And still become friends. You are the only person from elementary school that I talk to. You can do that with all those friends. I know. Well, from elementary school.
00:02:32
Speaker
So thanks for being on the show. There's a couple things I wanted to kind of pull out of you. The first one is you're kind of like Clark Kent is your day job, but you have had a passionate side gig and you
A Podcasting Journey
00:02:46
Speaker
mentioned it. It's life or the path. It's a podcast that you run with you and your buddies. How long have you been doing that?
00:02:52
Speaker
It will be, I think, 13 or 14 years. Podcasting before podcasting was cool. Actually, that's what's interesting. Someone asked this the other day and I said, we were podcasting before podcasting was cool. Now podcasting has been super cool and we're still hanging out and not cool.
00:03:09
Speaker
realm, because someone has to, and they say, well, we'll stay the line, you know? That's not true. I don't listen to many podcasts, but whenever I tune into yours, I'm like, I listen to it far longer than I ever thought, because you're just guys in a room talking about godly things, that trying to apply the Word of God into your life, and that's kind of how it started, right?
00:03:28
Speaker
Yes, yes. So, like, yeah, the crux of this show is just some fellas in a room having the conversations that people have trying to work out, like, what is it that we believe and how does it apply to
Living Christian Beliefs Daily
00:03:39
Speaker
our lives? A lot of stuff, you know, from a Christian perspective is people talking at you. And like, I love sermons. Like I said, I'm a pastor. I like studying things. But like, that stuff has to walk the ground, man. Like, it has to raise kids. It has to fix things that I've broken with my wife.
00:03:55
Speaker
It has to inform how I go about and do my day-to-day work. And so, like, what does that look like? And some of it's, you know, how do we react to stuff that's in the news? Like, how do I take this in? And a lot of times it's like a calm down, God's got this kind of thing under control, but like, how do we react prudently? And so, we stumbled into it. There was a
00:04:15
Speaker
there was a guy who had started a business where he wanted to like create podcasts, basically his advertising platform. So like you find real estate agents and all kinds of things were like, Hey, which is like, it's pretty normal. It's a good way to do it actually. And so you come in, he had a studio and he would interview a bunch of people and then give them their own show. And so my pastor at the time and my brother ended up on a show just as an interview. And at the end of the show that they were on, the guy goes, Hey, would you guys be interested in doing a radio show?
00:04:42
Speaker
And they said, we have no particular skills in this. Let's call Ben. And I also have no particular skills in this. But we said, sure, this sounds all right. And her voice is dreamy. That's why. I often speak to myself, and I fall asleep. So maybe that's right. But we ended up on a 6 AM slot on a Saturday morning in downtown Des Moines. We had to open the studio. There was no one. You go in there. And we were on for two weeks. And then the whole thing blew up and shut down. The people who opened it were fighting.
00:05:10
Speaker
And so one of the guys opens up something else, and so we go do a show for them, and we were doing like a two-hour marathon podcast, and these were terrible, Aaron Kramer. The first 30 minutes were edifying and good for the world, and the last 90 minutes were not. Like, we're reaching for things to talk about, because we have no concept of like,
00:05:33
Speaker
Again, like long form podcast content. We're just just talking in there. And so this, I would say the show has not got shorter really, but it has gotten better over time. And so anyway, translation, we just couldn't give it up because at the end of the day, I have a dedicated time most weeks to go in a room with some other fellows and be refined and encouraged and learn and laugh and try to figure out how to apply scripture into your life.
00:06:00
Speaker
Now, here's the thing that I think is cool, because you can take the Word of God and you can start doing your devotions by yourself. And what I think is powerful about this is you're like, I have a group of people, maybe calm me down, right? If I'm tightly wound over this one thing, it's a really good concept. And then you just invite people in to listen to that. And one thing you said before the show is you don't edit anything. Like if it's a hot mess, welcome to the show, which I kind of
00:06:27
Speaker
I appreciate. You know, like you are really a fly on the wall. We have good buddies that are talking and challenging and pushing themselves to know and follow Jesus even more. It's a great show. Very fantastic. And it's been your side project for quite some time. Yeah. 13 years. Yes. So let me ask you this. So you have this
00:06:48
Speaker
full-time job. And then you have this side thing. Has it ever produced any money? This is what I wanted to kind of talk through. Yes and no. So like we made money, but we spent it. So when it came up, I brought some in and then there it went.
00:07:07
Speaker
So originally, we started as a podcast, and then we had kind of thought, hey, man, we should go on terrestrial radio, which is weird because, I mean, it's kind of dying. But we go, hey, we could probably get on here because the standards are going down.
00:07:22
Speaker
So we contacted, there was a local Christian Radio show, and this guy was awesome. And we said, look, we're interested in having a show. But Christian Radio is pay to play, man. If you're on there, you're paying. It's not like they go, oh, we think you're great. Here's the show. You're like, yeah, where's our money? Now, whatever, we were paying the low amount. But anyway, so we got sponsors and stuff for that. We raised money specifically to try to do what we were always trying to do. It wasn't in my mind. It wasn't even conceivable to me
00:07:49
Speaker
to make money doing what we were doing because it because it felt one primarily for me, you guys are gonna know why this is wrong, right? You're gonna hear like, this is the wrong way to think about it. But like in my mind, it was, this is primarily for my benefit. I hope people are encouraged and built up by it. But like, it's too, it's not straight laced enough for someone like serious to go put money into this thing. Because like we say some ridiculous things, nobody's running for political office ever.
00:08:11
Speaker
If you get a raw show with two hours a guy, I've said all kinds of things. We just had our 500 show and one of the things we said was like, are there things you wish you could take back? And everybody in the room was like, oh man, we have said some terrible things. Things that I would be embarrassed to have said, but that's how people live. You go around, you try to do your best to say something bad to yourself, shoot man, I got to refine that.
00:08:35
Speaker
Anyway, so we did we made some money for a time specifically to try to to keep the show on the air and then that that station kind of closed down removed and like
00:08:45
Speaker
We thought, well, I mean, we need to keep up the internet side. I do most stuff for free. I kind of hodgepodge stuff together. It costs real cheap, and so I just thought, we stopped. Right. Yeah, that's the one of them. It's cool. I had a podcast with Nadine Habaker. She was one of the older guests we've had on the show, and she was an artist. She's an artist, like she does. And I was like, how do you get paid to do art? And she's like, what?
00:09:09
Speaker
I don't know. I just love the pain and people keep paying me. I don't know. It seems a little bit like you guys are just passionate about what you do. It doesn't really matter about the money. And in that, you guys are doing it and you've been doing it for 13 years. So that could be a longer runway because people are just passionate. And maybe that's your payment. I know that you've made some money, but that's not the primary goal. And for me and the people who have side gigs,
00:09:33
Speaker
and this whole uncommon wealth and this path that people go on, sometimes it's just because they're passionate about it. And it doesn't have to be monetarily bringing in a lot of money, or that they have to even quit their day job. They can just keep doing it because it's giving them life. They feel like it's awesome, and they're learning more than they ever have, and they're excited about it.
Passion Projects and Faith Integration
00:09:52
Speaker
Yeah. Actually, it's one of the challenges. It's a great challenge in my life.
00:09:58
Speaker
The people at Jesus have got fun stuff to do all over the place, and so I have a hard time bowing down to stuff. I'm like, well, I mean, this podcast is fun. It's awesome. It's enriching, and people like it, and they're getting something out of it, and that's great. And then I have a day job, and there's people there who need built up, and there's people there who are a way of looking at the world.
00:10:17
Speaker
is helpful there, just like it's helpful all over the place. It's helpful in the church. It's a pastor. It's helpful raising your kids. It's helpful coaching a softball team. And so, like, sometimes the harder thing is to go, you know, maybe I'm going to say no to that. The people of Jesus are everywhere. Someone else can probably do this piece. But, like, because there's an opportunity to be helpful. As a matter of fact, I'm on the LinkedIn. You guys on the LinkedIn? I'm on the LinkedIn. I have a real problem.
00:10:45
Speaker
Well, so like, I can't remember what God, oh I was trying to, I did a children's book with my daughter, and for some reason I'm like, I should be on the LinkedIn, and so I get on there, and I call it the LinkedIn, that's how you know I don't use it correctly. But like, I was going around and looking at all these bios that people have, and like some people that I know or even work with, I'm reading this thing, I'm like, that does not, what is this? This does not explain you at all. Like, who wants to be in the mindset that you're constantly applying for a job? And I get to use LinkedIn for that, but like, what a scarce way to live,
00:11:14
Speaker
And so I probably thought on it for three or four days, and I thought, I don't know. And I ended up with trying to be useful. That's my LinkedIn, because that's it. That's actually the right, I don't care where I go or where I'm standing or who I'm around, can I be helpful here?
00:11:29
Speaker
And again, it just, but it opens you up to a wide breadth where you're like, well, I couldn't be helpful over there. Should I be? And so, side hustles get, when you're open to all the opportunities and ways of which God might use you in life, sometimes the harder thing is figuring out what to, like, what do I not do? What do I say no to? Yeah.
00:11:49
Speaker
Exactly right, exactly right. I'm gonna ask, because I know you guys know each other, seeing you guys are eating. Yeah, I just made it today. But like, how do you balance all this? If I've heard now that you do three things, like you work full time, you're an engineer, you're a pastor, you're a podcaster, but then like, well I guess the fourth thing, the biggest thing is you're also a family member. How do you balance all this? I have one job, don't really have a hobby in the family, and I am just like, he did it then. That's not a hobby, I mean he's huge.
00:12:18
Speaker
He obviously has some kind of hobby. Yes, that's right. How do I do my garage so I can keep doing it? You know, I think if I'm being honest, it's a right, constant question. Like, are these things in appropriate balance? Now, here's what the cool thing is. So I'm a house church pastor. And so it's, get out of your mind, like weirdness. This is people doing the things that the people of Jesus have always done. Every church that's mentioned in the New Testament is a house church. People meet in churches.
00:12:45
Speaker
Hold on. Pause, because you guys are really knowledgeable here. Can you define what's a house church? Yeah, totally. Listen, you're going to be disappointed in what I'm going to say. I know I won't. A church is a gathering of people, and we do it in a house.
00:13:00
Speaker
OK. That's it. Very, very cool. It's super simple. That's what I'm saying. It's a rough cut of it. And so I was a pastor. I was actually a pastor at a church in Johnston. It was a great experience. But what I found, and this goes along somewhat with what I do as a day job. It always looks like I was trying to simplify something. There seems like a lot of wheat and chaff here. And there's a lot of things, frankly, that the church gets involved with that I'm like, I mean, I'm not sure we actually do this very well. The thing we have to offer the world is Jesus. That's it. Oftentimes, the bar down the street,
00:13:29
Speaker
the gym, all kinds of places are better at relationships. Because you're in there for something communally. Sometimes the church postures itself. We're like, we're trying to sell you something. That's the deal. I want to be part of a gift. I have an awesome gift. Something's been exposed to me that I can otherwise share with other people. And I desperately want to share that. But sometimes our church infrastructures are built to put people through a sales process. The business. Welcome. Right. Here's the class. Here's the path. Here's the 10 things you can do. Here's your gifts. Plug it all in.
00:13:58
Speaker
I just felt like, one, maybe I'm not competent to the task of pastoring in an environment like that. But then, two, the folks that were closest to Jesus, what did their stuff look like? And it looked like people living communally and meeting in houses, as many as they could pack in, people falling out of windows asleep because there's so many folks patting the top row, right? And so I thought, is it possible that this works?
00:14:23
Speaker
It is still working in our context. And it's not right. Don't look at the first century wasn't implicitly holy. Jesus was in it, but it doesn't make it that their lifestyle is better than ours. But the question is, was it working? And it explodes, right? So the Christianity explodes where people are meeting and living together. The things they believe and the things that they do match.
00:14:41
Speaker
And then, frankly, society changes where, so one of the biggest rises, there's a great book called The Rise of Christianity by Rodney Stark. And like, one of the things he walks, he's like, how does this possible? How do you go from 12 guys, 11, and the thing explodes, thousands. That's exactly, and it's things like when the plague happens, where the world runs away, the people of Jesus ran in.
00:15:02
Speaker
because what sticks with people is that somebody goes, look, there's somebody who needs help and we're going to go into the trenches. That's right. And there's many Christians that died doing that. But like who remembers that? The guy who was served by the Christians running in and his family and his family and his family, because the things that we believed in, the things that we said matched and like every major collegiate institution, um,
00:15:25
Speaker
home for like mentally ill folks, orphanages, like school systems, hospitals, almost all were started by Christians, right? Core institutions that go to serve people, okay? So, the question was, if all that is bored out of this, what seems like a more, like a looser structure that doesn't require, frankly, some of the hard things about being a pastor, I'm getting to answer your question. The background was helpful.
00:15:45
Speaker
So, but the reason being is like one of the key problems or difficulties of being a pastor is like you ask him not to be like a guy who knows scripture and a guy who loves and spends times with people. He's, he's, he owns a business. He's got to like, keep the pipes running. Right. And like, and you have to, like it does, you don't want it to, but you look out and go, Hey man, there's half the people here this weekend than were there last weekend. There's a monetary consequence. And I thought like, I just want nothing to do with that.
00:16:11
Speaker
Well, it's funny because I know your personality. If you're an executive pastor trying to streamline and make things more efficient, eventually you're like, and I'm going to work myself out of a job. Right? And I could see where that didn't work out. Yeah, right. Exactly. And so one of the things then when it comes to being a house church pastor, I have a
00:16:28
Speaker
I have a responsibility to the people in our church. They have responsibilities to me. I have a particular focus. It's not a, there's no hierarchical thing there. It's just a specific thing. God has given me like, I teach my job to teach and do pastoral work within our congregation. But like, we have no structure for that.
00:16:44
Speaker
And so, like, yes, I spend time reading mostly on, it's generally Saturday night. I don't, I'm not like 15, I used to spend 15 hours preparing a sermon. I'm probably down to two to three hours, like praying throughout the week, two to three hours of studying, making sure that I've poured all the right stuff in so that we can talk about it on the next day. But like, all that means is that I don't have to separate my,
00:17:08
Speaker
I know normal life, full life, from my pastoral work. I don't have to cart it off. The podcast work, it takes me away. But if I were to say, look, every Monday night, I'm going to set up... But you're talking about the same thing. Exactly. You're not duplicitous. This is how I live my life. You're my full-time job.
00:17:26
Speaker
I don't know. This is how I pass through my church and this is how I do my podcast. This is a theme throughout your life. They're not buckets, they're bundles. Everything goes to some of the stuff that the previous podcast here, like we're talking about like integer, like integrity, things like being the same, not divided. Well, my life isn't.
00:17:42
Speaker
really divided, if I'm living it well, it's just applied. Here are the things, skills, attitudes, thoughts. And now they relate to the podcast. Now they relate to the time I spend with my family. And like, I could, I'm always trying to do better at this, but like, how do I, my daughter, my oldest daughter was on the podcast a couple weeks ago. And so she's been on there a few different times.
00:18:01
Speaker
There's ways that they can get involved. Every once in a while my kids will help me out of yours. And so there's things where they can be separate or how can I pull them together. And so, now don't feel, there's not a judgment in there. There's things like that you have to do on your own.
00:18:16
Speaker
Right? Like if I'm going to do, I mean, actually, if I work out, I can do it with my wife. I actually find that I feel better about it if I go, I'm not around her when I'm doing it. But yeah, but just in general, I think that's the right way to think about it is like balance should be a constant, humble thought and prayer in your life and letting other people say, like my wife should be able to say, hey, I think this is off a little bit or we're feeling like we're missing you this week or something like that.
00:18:41
Speaker
But I think that's the way I would, I try to think about it is like, how can I best integrate the things and not have them feel separate? So that's the thing where we were putting it together and Philip talked about it's like, and he started looking at other people that are like yourself, they have all these like balls in the court and they're doing this so well, but really what it is is like they intertwine so well. Yeah, that's right. So then I'm just like these 180. It's how God's uniquely gifted you. Yeah. And people can interweave many different things that I'm like, how do you do that?
00:19:10
Speaker
I'm not gifted that way. But some people are, and it's very natural for them. And it's not like this, I have to put on a different hat here, and then on this hat. That I think is unsustainable. Yeah, I think it is. But I think there is a personality to it, too. Let's say that's a skill. This is good. This is a positive. There's always a converse. There's always something that says on the other side of that, what that means is, I often don't go super deep on any given thing.
00:19:38
Speaker
So like where some people can get like a really good focus and like these people are changing the world because it's like that's what their world looks like. My stuff tends to peanut butter out. And so there's always a risk to me that feels like is this getting not only is it a time thing, but like effective. Yeah, is this thing working at its best?
00:19:56
Speaker
because of the amount of time that I can give it. Like if I only gave this more focus, yes, but I would have to give up something over here. And I generally, that's why, this is what's difficult. So like, I like to work on podcasts, I love audio editing, I have a background in it. And my show is a terrible example. If I was gonna go, hey, I'd like to do podcast editing for you, check out my show. It's not a good one. Because it's so long, I won't edit it, I won't chop it up. If the audio's not great, I might just start the show and go, hey, I think the audio was a little bit dumpy this week.
00:20:25
Speaker
you know, bear it out if you want to. It does. I witnessed that. I'm like, oh, that's wrong. But like, that is, that's my boundary for that show. And either it's, if it's not endearing to you, then our show may not even be the right show for you. And I'm okay with that too.
00:20:43
Speaker
But that's the other side of that coin. And so I may not be the guy who changes the world in any particular thing that I'm focusing on because of the things that I'm balancing. And so I guess my caution is, is it like, oh, yeah, look, he can balance all the things. But it doesn't mean there's not a righteousness in someone who's got a focus that they rock at. It's just different.
00:21:06
Speaker
Okay, so that's my first point that I wanted to pull out, is the side gig necessarily doesn't have to be something that monetarily brings in money. That's okay, right? As long as you're still getting life from it, it can be sustainable. 13 years still run us through.
00:21:20
Speaker
Okay, there's a next thing I want to talk about is your faith these buckets that aren't like you're putting on different hats Yeah, but you are in a secular full-time job. Yes. How do you integrate your faith? Inside the workplace. I think this is fascinating.
Faith in the Workplace
00:21:35
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. I just came from a conference yesterday It was called the uncommon no unconventional unconventional business international yeah, and the unconventional was that they wanted to bring faith in the workplace and
00:21:46
Speaker
There was a whole bunch of business owners, a lot of people in this, which was fun to see. And the overarching theme that I thought was like, are these people really being good witnesses, or are they just, quote unquote, trying to bring Jesus into the workplace? And I would love to know their employees, what they interpret as faith, and is it a good representation of who Jesus is, or is it actually harming them?
00:22:12
Speaker
Yeah. Oh, yeah. And that's what I was like overarching fame. There was a keynote speaker in, he was talking about like, what is the fruit that you've, that you've brought out of your life and faith? Okay, great. But like, what I really wanted to say is like, you guys, we have a big responsibility here. Yeah.
00:22:27
Speaker
Because if we're the ones who want to bring faith into the workplace, then we are, we have to be good stewards of that. And we can't, we have to ask for forgiveness when we screw up, when we screw up. And we have to be a good representation of Jesus because we could really
00:22:43
Speaker
It hurts somebody. Oh, I'm a Christian. And then you're just slaying people. There's wakes of bodies behind you. I want nothing to do with that kind of religion and faith. So that's why I say, and I think that you probably are going to be a really good advocate for it. No, no, your faith has to come into your workplace. It doesn't necessarily mean that you have to have a cross on the door. And so tell me how you integrate your faith in your workplace, because you can't take out faith in Ben
00:23:12
Speaker
and all this stuff and your fortune whatever company. Fortune X company. Yeah, Fortune X. So how do you integrate it is my question. So like the key thing is to not suppress it. So like I am who I am. I believe when I believe I think what I think. I look at the world in the way that I do shaped by the goodness of God. And so I think sometimes we feel like there's a burden again to become the advertising agency.
00:23:38
Speaker
Like, do I have to put a cross, what I normally put a cross on my door? What I normally make? Like, he has risen my background of my Zoom call? Like, I wouldn't do that. Because it's shallow. Like, I'm not interested in like, oh, as long as you know that I'm a Christian, like, that's great.
00:23:55
Speaker
Yeah, I don't need other people to buy in so that I feel good about the thing that I believe. I believe it because I think it's true and I think it matters and I think it changes the world, right? And it's changed your life. Yes, and if I think all those things, how could it not?
00:24:11
Speaker
come affect you right now it's the same reason like when the guy who delivers the the mail I don't just run him down and go hey I was reading an axe today because like that's not a normal transaction human interaction right that's right it's a actually one of the one I think the burdens that we've got
00:24:27
Speaker
This is true in the church. I think it's true beyond that, but we've taken a very heavy burden of feeling like we have to kind of psychologize people. But what will connect with them? And there's a wisdom in, I care about people enough. There's a time, no way of it. Right. Yes. But it's way different if you're sitting there plotting and going, here are the three. Leading the witness, as they say.
00:24:48
Speaker
This is why I'm out on the fog, I'm out on the lights, I'm out on the things that try to manipulate me to feel something that needs to come from clear relationship with Jesus, movement of Scripture, Holy Spirit doing things in my life. I don't want you to help me with a manipulation. Now, there's all kinds of righteous things that might come from that, so again, don't hear me wrong, but I don't feel like I have a need to have to conjure up a way to sell a vacuum Jesus to somebody.
00:25:14
Speaker
So what it means, then, is when I go to work, I should be living my faith out the way that I would every other time. It should apply to the meeting that I'm going to be in. Do people around me know that I'm a pastor? Yeah. Yeah, they know that. We are shouting it from a rooftop. Right, because that is the dismissal of another human. They don't come to me and go, hey, here's what I do in my also time, and yell at me. That would be weird. It disrespects another human. But they know that because it's not natural interaction.
00:25:43
Speaker
Right. Hey, my name's Philip Ramsey. I play Ultimate Frisbee. Like, oh, okay. Okay. I guess. Yeah. Do you remember that I play Ultimate Frisbee? Can I tell you about my Ultimate Frisbee journey? Yeah. Now, but it's whenever you get one step in, two steps in. Hey, what are you passionate about? Exactly. Let me tell you. Yes. Right? Exactly. But I mean, you guys are way farther along in your faith than I am. I'm like the newbie over here. I feel like, in comparison to you guys. But like,
00:26:09
Speaker
It is like, there's a couple red flags I have when I meet somebody and they're like, oh hi, my name is so-and-so, I'm a Christian. You've met people like that? I don't know, I've never met anybody and this is that. I don't know that actually that's how it feels. That's what it feels like. When we start talking about who they like, they want to throw that in so fast to almost approve.
00:26:30
Speaker
Hey, I'm a good person because I'm a Christian. And it's like, I don't think they're worse that way. Now I don't think they're a good person. It shouldn't, but I would say that my favorite compliment is somebody's like, hey, something just seems different about you. And I'm like, wow. That's not of me for the record. That's the Holy Spirit.
00:26:52
Speaker
normally that's you or so you're different like you're an idiot is basically it could be a two but they're like listen something just feels different about you like I just feel like can we talk like yeah we sure can yes what a compliment right yeah well and here's the thing a lot of people they wouldn't even know that it's that the reason that they feel that way is related to the fact that you love and serve Jesus
00:27:14
Speaker
Like they wouldn't know that happened. This happens to me quite a bit. Like, Hey, I just want to get your thoughts on something. And like, here's it. Like when I say, when I say you got to not suppress it, like it should always influence the key things that are going to influence how you talk to your employees.
Role of a Business Architect
00:27:28
Speaker
One of the aims of my department, it's boring, the whole thing, but like,
00:27:31
Speaker
As a business architect, we have a macro view of the world. Our job is to look at all the things and make sure we're all talking about them in the same way, open up the ways of which people are talking past each other, and then try to document our business in such a way that you can find where this part of the business wants this thing, this part of the business wants a different thing, and we go, hey, that's the same thing, same.
00:27:50
Speaker
Okay. And so, but what that, what I end up doing is, is you interact with all kinds of people, trying to accomplish all kinds of things. And like, uh, there's all kinds of ways in which I could say, well, here's the aim of our department, but our, the aim of our department is to, how can I make that other person look good? Like, how can I help them? Our job is to help them succeed in whatever it is that they're doing. Um, and I want them to look good doing it. And like, we can fade in the back. That's a, that's a, that's a Christian way to go, man. Sure. Humble the way around and you try to make sure that like the light's going to shine on someone to fall on somebody else. You be Luke Skywalker. I'll be Yoda.
00:28:20
Speaker
You know, go get them. Right. And so like, but there's also ways that we could frame our part of the work and go like, we want to dominate the world. I'm like, I want to make sure the world's spinning in the best possible way. And people who spin it have got the best things at their disposal to make decisions to do it. And so like, I like that.
00:28:36
Speaker
Because it doesn't put me this is where like working in a you know at an office job or a secular job like you're gonna find contentious things and you're gonna find people who are trying to accomplish things in ways that you wouldn't who are gonna put you in positions that you're gonna like boy I just it would be most beneficial for my career to do X but like
00:28:54
Speaker
it would take my life to do X and so I'm not gonna do that. Actually, it's interesting, I've never, I've not applied for a job over the last, I've been in the same place for 21 years. I've probably had six different positions and I haven't applied for one of them. I don't, hey Ben, where do you wanna go in your career? I don't know, I wanna be useful.
00:29:12
Speaker
Now, here's the thing, career-wise, I probably could be higher up somewhere, I probably could be making more money, but it feels like lack of ambition, but it's not. I look at the world and go, look, I want to be helpful, and if you're telling me that I'm the most helpful right now doing this thing, okay,
00:29:35
Speaker
because I'm just gonna take the same set of skills, wave you in the world, care for people, and I'm gonna play it here. I don't care when you, right, it doesn't really matter what I'm doing. And so I'm like, unless, call it open it. Which it isn't, because a lot of people put their identity in that. That's the interesting thing. And that's what you're saying, you're like, that's not my identity. Right, right, right. Super good. Super good. This is great. Coming from someone that's not on your guys' level of Christianity and hearing you guys talk about how to put it into the actual world,
00:30:04
Speaker
is exactly what I think a lot of people will need to hear that aren't and then are also very weary of like hearing it because like it is like we have there's so there was a guy in town that was a financial advisor he had a big cross on his like in his office huge cross
00:30:20
Speaker
and ginormous, like did a huge amount of production. He went under because like got his license pulled and they're like, Oh wow. Crummy. Yeah. Right. Shady is, but advertised like crazy that he was a believer, you know, that he was a believer. It's like, but here you guys are saying like the exact opposite. Oh yeah. It's like, no, no, no. You will make everybody else like then the shining light and then like, they should just see it through your actions.
00:30:46
Speaker
Yes, that's a huge warning sign when somebody's like, yeah, this is me. I'm a Christian. It could be. It could be. It could not be. But to me, it's like the actions over time that you witness that are like, wow, that's attractive. Because I believe Jesus was the ultimate winning others over. And he would do it in such a way that, no, I'll also point out sin. Yeah, but in that, I'll win it. I love you so much, we need to talk about it. This is what I'm saying.
00:31:16
Speaker
So, I think we're built for this. I think we're built for this type of relationship with other people in the same way we're built for this type of relationship with God. You're built to have someone who can say, look, even all your failures and fallibilities, I still love you. I would still die for you, sacrifice to you, and I have.
00:31:31
Speaker
in those fallibilities, they're harming you. It wasn't what I created for good. And so I'm going to tell you, I want to make sure you know, because why would you? You wouldn't do that to your own kids or see somebody else and causing their own trouble in life. You go, hey, you wouldn't just let them go. Cause how disassociative and dismissal is that to go, dude, you're really screwed it up and I don't care. I don't care. Right. What a crappy thing to do. And so like,
00:31:50
Speaker
it's such a weird thing because we had this conversation with some people in the past and they're like, dude, it feels like you're dodging your faith. I said, no, I'm living it out genuinely. Like I said, it's going to come up. It's going to come up in our conversations that I love and serve Jesus. It's going to come up where I don't mind saying in a Zoom call with 50 people on it to go, amen, I'll certainly be praying on you for that. Because that's what I'm going to do. I'm not saying that for their benefit. It's what I'm going to do. And so fake is not effective.
00:32:20
Speaker
Jesus wasn't fake. The work of God throughout history and time was not fake. These were real people, real situations, real love, real sacrifice, real God. And so like, like fake, we don't need to come up with a better advertising program than what God has set out as being true and good. And so we're going to go about that. And it means that you love God and you love people. And you like, don't, when we say humility, it doesn't mean think of yourself. Don't think less of yourself. It's thinking of yourself less often. Just like having people and saying, look, how can I, when you build other people up, like it's one of the
00:32:50
Speaker
to the kingdom. When you go out and do the things that God has told you to do, you get enriched by it. Yes, which is so counter-cultural to what's happening now. And you are getting more and more people depressed because, oh, what's your inner happiness? Focusing on yourself. Keep this wild ride. And at the end of it, like, but who are you? Like, stop. Like, what if it isn't about you? Yes.
00:33:13
Speaker
What if it's about serving other people? What if it's about making somebody else happy, and in that, finding your own joy? Because we have studies on that, showing how we can prove the fact that the happiest people in the world are the people that are serving others. Oh, man, for sure. And so this is why, I think, coming back to uncommon wealth, if I won the lottery, guess what I'll be doing tomorrow?
00:33:33
Speaker
Yeah, the exact same thing. Because it's not really about the money.
Finding Excitement and Purpose
00:33:38
Speaker
And I think that's one of our secret sauces here at Uncommon Wealth. It's like, no, we care about people and what they want to do with their life. Yeah, well, we'll use your money as a tool. But at the end of the day, what is it that would get you excited? And what's going to get Ben excited? What's going to get Aaron excited? It's going to be different than what gets me excited.
00:33:56
Speaker
Or it could be the same thing. I don't know. But let's talk through that. And there is so much joy about pulling people's inner excitement out and watching the lights start turning on again, them starting getting excited. My favorite question to ask when somebody's talking about something they're passionate about is, how long have you been talking about this? And they'll always underestimate the time that they've been talking.
00:34:17
Speaker
because they're actually excited. Yeah, yeah, yeah. A little in the spouse is like, well, I think for like a year in the spouse, you like see the face, and it's like, try five. Yeah, right, right, right. So that's what's so cool. And I love that you're so passionate about your side gigs. But really, it's all the same passion, right? And that's really what brings you to where you're at. So you can have all these different places, all these different kind of hats you put on, but they all are the same person.
00:34:44
Speaker
Yeah, that's always what I valued about you, and you're just authentic. Authentically winning people over for Jesus, because that's who you are. Yeah. That's a win. And you know, I guess that's the thing, is that like, I don't...
00:34:56
Speaker
I don't even know what it would be like to try to be someone else. I'm bad at it. This is the other thing I'll tell you. Anything they've ever got my hands in, I'm a terrible marketer. I'm not a good marketer. I'm not a good salesman. I don't know how to do it. Part of that is just because it's asking the question, what would tickle their fancy? I don't know.
00:35:18
Speaker
So like for in our house church environment, like I don't I don't do like been serving series on anger Like I don't that's that's seems like a lot of meat and me trying to stretch right I can tie things together. And so like there's some day now here don't hear me wrong There's some people who do this very well, and I'm always impressed. I'm also a terrible Still anecdotal storyteller now random stories that like seems like it's gonna build up and then dies off Like I'm great at that. I do that
00:35:47
Speaker
But like, there's some pastors that are just so good. They tell such a great, such a wonderful example. I don't, I'm not a good guy. I read the thing that we're supposed to teach this week and I go,
00:36:01
Speaker
here's what's going on around it so you can understand it here's probably what is getting at and like here's probably how we should apply that but like the stuff that really helps people i wish i was better at it but i'm not but then some of that just become comes on like it feels at least from my perspective
00:36:17
Speaker
It feels like it's asking me to be inauthentic because I feel like I'm having to conjure something up. But that's for me. Some people are, like I said, really good at this and it's an awesome skill because you help connect people to things that they would miss because you knew how to say it. And like I said, I think that's okay from broader macro contexts.
00:36:35
Speaker
Like I said, faith is not effective here. People know when you're being real with them. I think, frankly, this is where the church has struggled, is that we were a lot of stuff. It's treating people like we're on the same advertising block as the billboard down the street. And I just, again, you can chuck it all. And Jesus is the thing that makes any of this different. And if we're not leading with what that is and the truth of that and the reality of those things and how it impacts our lives, then there are people who do all the other functions of the church better.
00:37:01
Speaker
They just do so trouble, right? So this is my overall reason why I want to show on the phone. Just be authentic. Be authentic in your side gigs. Be authentic in your career. Be authentic. And what you'll find is you will be way more happy. You won't have to. Oh, no, I got to be this person for that. Like, no, you're just this is who you want to keep track of. Here's the deal. At the end of the day, people are going to like you or people are going to like you. Yeah, but that's OK.
00:37:28
Speaker
Right? You don't need everybody to love you. You just need to be authentic to you. And what I find that for myself, when people are authentic, no matter how quirky or different they are, I value that. Like, I'm in. What can we do? So anyway, Ben, thank you for being on the show. Yeah, Ben, this is great. I really want to say quick, though, like, Billy, I know you said, like, I'm not the, oh, I'm the peanut butter. Like, no, I'll go too deep. I'm not going to change the world. I'm like, I think, like, you got to, like, I'm just going to say this because I know you won't say it to yourself because, like, that's your personality that I learned.
00:37:57
Speaker
You are changing the world in the sense of like, you being the beacon of light for so many people, you're being that peanut butter for people, it's like you think about like, did you just spread the word? Like, he helped with 12 guys? Was it 12 guys? Yeah, let's start with 12, and he loses a guy, and then it gets better. Well, yeah, but like, and then he'll change the world out of 12 guys. Yeah, do it like that.
00:38:16
Speaker
You know, if you get six, or 12, or 24, or you help that many people be their beacon of light, you are changing the world. So I'm glad that you said that, because I think that's the right encouragement for folks who feel like you don't have a particular thing that you rock at. But you're just taking your life, and you're trying to live it in all the different expressions and experiences.
00:38:37
Speaker
You're right. Like, when I think of it, I don't think, like, I'm not revolutionizing podcasting. Like, in every place that I have, you have relationships to build, and you have, like, true things that can be said that can help and see the world correctly and separate wheat from chaff. And, like, to the extent that you can be part of that in anybody's relationship, the cumulative nature of humans living in community and doing that for each other, it does ultimately change the world. That's right. That's exactly the right thing to say. That's more clearly said than what I had said. So that's... No, I just want to make sure I just make sure, you know, it'll make a big
Closing Thoughts and Appreciation
00:39:06
Speaker
difference.
00:39:06
Speaker
So I hope this is encouraging to you, our listeners. Thank you for being on the show. Ben, thank you for listening. Aaron, great job. You've been listening to the UnCommonwealth podcast. I've been your host, Phil Bramsey. And they're here. And until next time, don't be uncommon. Thanks for listening. That's all for this episode, brought to you by UnCommonwealth partners. Be sure to visit UnCommonwealth.com to learn more about our services. Don't miss an episode as we introduce you to inspiring people who are actively pursuing an uncommon life.