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Episode 10: Starrcade '92
29 Plays6 years ago
The Lethal Lottery has WCW all mixed up! Again! WCW actually loved the Battlebowl: The Lethal Lottery concept so much it ran it for two Starrcades in a row. On the bright side, it isn't the whole show this time! The grand tradition of the Battlebowl championship ring begins (a year late) as Sting tries to win a second ring (on the same night he's been given his first one)...and faces Vader for the King of Cable as well. Oh, and hey, we've got two World titles now. What's up with that? To find out, let's go to the ring!
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Transcript
Introduction to the Hosts and Show
00:00:00
Speaker
Okay, John. What? Your thoughts? On the show. On the show overall. Okay. That's where we are. Kinda blanked a little bit. What's new?
WCW and NWA Titles: A Shared History
00:00:42
Speaker
Hello, everyone, and welcome to Let's Go to the Ring, where we take a look at the good old days and not so good old days of World Championship Wrestling, series by series. I'm your host, Bob Moore, and I'm joined by tonight's unquestionably randomly drawn podcasting tag team, Alec Pridgen. Unquestionably. And John Mullins. Random. What a totally unexpected team up. Who would have guessed it? Not me.
00:01:09
Speaker
Tonight we're going to take a look at Starrcade 92 Battle Bowl, the Lethal Lottery 2. Before we get started though, we've got two world titles on this show.
00:01:32
Speaker
We've got the NWA title represented by the wonderful big gold belt and the WCW title represented by, well, you know, another belt. It's fine, but it's no big gold belt. No.
Ric Flair's Departure and Legal Controversies
00:01:45
Speaker
No. And it's pronounced noir. Oh, is it? Yes. Anyway, what's going on here? I'll tell you. All right. Oh, good.
00:01:56
Speaker
Well, when Jim Crockett Promotions became WCW back in 1988, it stayed part of the National Wrestling Alliance, the NWA.
00:02:07
Speaker
But it started to phase out the use of the NWA name and logo over the years following, preferring to establish its own brand. Eventually, WCW stopped calling the championship represented by the big gold belt, the NWA World Heavyweight Championship. Instead, it was the WCW World Heavyweight Championship. It was basically just a naming change though. The WCW champ was the NWA champ. They shared their lineage.
00:02:34
Speaker
They shared it, that is, until Ric Flair was fired by Jim Hurd in mid-1991, while Flair was still the champion.
00:02:41
Speaker
Flair had put up a $25,000 bond while he had the belt. As WCW didn't return his $25,000, Flair took the Big Gold Belt with him when he left and took it with him to the WWF, leading to some really amazing footage of WWF announcer Bobby Heenan promoting Flair's WWF arrival by showing off the Big Gold Belt on WWF television. Lawsuits followed. Naturally.
00:03:07
Speaker
The big gold belt itself eventually made its way back to WCW. More to the point though, while WCW could just strip Ric Flair of the WCW title and did so, the NWA board of directors had to be reconvened to strip Ric Flair of the NWA title.
00:03:23
Speaker
So, while WCW established a new WCW champion, Lex Luger, in July of 1991, he was NOT also the NWA champion. The title lineages were no longer the same. It wasn't until September of 1991 that Flair was finally stripped of the NWA title, and after that, the NWA title lay dormant for a full year.
00:03:46
Speaker
In 1992, the NWA finally authorized WCW and New Japan Pro Wrestling to hold a tournament to crown a new NWA champion, but now the NWA championship would be separate from the WCW championship. So, we've got two world titles on one show, one for WCW itself, and one for the organization to which WCW still, at this point, belongs.
00:04:11
Speaker
It's not confusing at all. Not one bit. If you want to know what bureaucracy looks like and why it takes so long, it took until September for a title. It seems quite a long time to deal with that. My understanding of it is that it's because WCW is basically all that remains of an active NWA at this point.
00:04:34
Speaker
several of the board members' promotions had gone out of business. So they literally had to get back in contact with them and say, hey, you guys need to get back together and reconvene so we can strip the sky of the title. I think the date's significant because I think that's when Flair first actually shows up, or first actually signs with the WWF. So that's when they're like, oh, right, we really do have to get this done.
Starrcade 92: Matches and Context
00:05:00
Speaker
I think they could mail their choice in or do a phone call or a conference call. He would think so. I don't know if it's maybe that they don't even know that maybe they don't even actually have a board at that point. I'm not sure. But yeah, there's something that it's more than them just saying, oh, no, we don't want to come in yet. Do we know what happened to the twenty five thousand? I don't. I would assume that when Flair sent it back, they probably sent that to him. I don't know. C.O.D.
00:05:25
Speaker
It's probably that Ormitic man gave him that money to deal with the lawsuit and to sort of make Flair happy. Yeah, probably. One of the two, probably. And he presses good press. Yeah. Never mind the whole idea that New Japan has a tournament, which they held yearly anyways, the G1 Climax tournament. And like, oh yeah, it's for the NWA title. Yeah. For some reason. It's really weird.
00:05:49
Speaker
Starrcade 1992 was held on December 28th, 1992 at The Omni in Atlanta, Georgia, in front of 8,000 fans, with about 100,000 pay-per-view buys. If you don't count Starrcade 1987, the first attempt at pay-per-view when the WWF decided to schedule Survivor Series the same night, as you'll recall, this is the lowest number of pay-per-view buys for a Starrcade yet.
00:06:14
Speaker
The lowest before this were 1988 and 1991, with 140,000 each. Well, yeah, I wasn't too thrilled about watching another Battle Bull show either. On the bright side, they're setting new records. They put a pops spin on it, you know? Sure, sure.
00:06:33
Speaker
Tonight, it's the 10th annual Starrcade 92, featuring Battle Ball. Beginning in 1983, Starrcade has earned the reputation of being wrestling's premier event. The sport's biggest stars have competed in this annual spectacular over the past decade. And tonight, the prediction continues.
00:06:52
Speaker
Five championships will be on the line, including a showdown for the WCW World's Heavyweight title. When former Florida State University football All-American Ron Simmons faces his top contender and current United States champion ravaging Rick Roode. It'll be the champion's power versus the challenger's devastating Roode Awakening.
00:07:12
Speaker
Ricky the Dragon Steamboat and Shane Douglas put their unified World Tag Team Championship up against the new combination of Barry Windham and Flying Brian Pillman. And the champions have revenge on their mind. For the first time in wrestling's history, the NWA title will be decided between two Japanese athletes on American soil. It'll be the master of the STF and current champion, Mosa Chono.
00:07:38
Speaker
versus the high-flying Great Buddha. Sting and Big Bang Vader are on a collision course tonight to determine the first Sting of cable champion. Ken Sting, last year's Battle Bowl winner and WCW's most popular athlete, derailed a 450-pound monster from the Rocky Mountains.
00:07:54
Speaker
Plus, Sting will also attempt to win his second Battle Bowl Championship ring. When via the random lethal lottery drawing, eight teams will be formed to compete in the tag team portion of Battle Bowl. The winning four teams, eight men, will advance to tonight's Battle Bowl Battle Royal Finale.
00:08:10
Speaker
where it's every man for himself who will wear this year's championship ring. Find out next during the 10th annual Star Game 92, featuring Battle Ball. And now, let's go ringside with Jim Ross and Jesse the Body Ventura.
00:08:30
Speaker
The show opens with a video package going over the history of Starrcade, and then the storylines for some of tonight's main matches. We're told that it's the 10th annual Starrcade 92. I wonder what happened at the first nine Starrcade 92s. They're very interesting shows. We're gonna recover those ones? No, no, I guess not. We're recovering Starrcade, not Starrcade 92. That's true. It's a separate series. Fair point. It's a good year. Several times. It's a time loop, that's what it is. That's what it is, okay.
00:09:00
Speaker
We also have kind of a neat tribute to the former Star Cades with each of the titles flashing on the screen. Or it would be nice if Star Cades 88 and 89 weren't skipped. Somehow they missed those. I don't know, did the person doing the video package just hate those shows? They're definitely other ones I would skip instead of those. Yeah, no, those were okay, I thought.
00:09:21
Speaker
84 probably. Yeah, and last year's. Oh yeah, goes up saying. The package goes over what's on the line tonight. As it covers the unified tag team championships match, we see the pictures of the teams involved. But Barry Windham and Brian Pillman's names are switched. So whoever's doing this video package doesn't know who these wrestlers are. Yeah, some poor AV guys like, oh fine I'll crank it out at 3am, whatever.
00:09:48
Speaker
And finally, we get a kind of cool little CG animation representing the crafting of the ring given to the winner of Battle Ball. Wait. What ring given to the winner of Battle Ball? Yeah, I missed that last year. Yeah, yeah. We'll get to that in a minute. The ring was invisible. Oh, there you go. Just like the one. Rather than turning you invisible, it turns itself invisible? Yes. Oh, okay. There you go. It's self-aware.
00:10:12
Speaker
I also didn't realize that you crafted gemstones in a ring by just pouring gold into a mold and just diamond form around them, yeah. Yeah, that's how it works. You poured over the diamond, obviously, so it's a good fit. I can't disprove that.
00:10:26
Speaker
As the package closes, JR welcomes us to the show alongside a new announcer, former wrestler Jesse the Body Ventura. Jesse has a cool jacket with lots of fringe, and a Malcolm X hat that I mistook for a degeneration X hat before I realized that we were five years too early for that and in the wrong company. I thought he was ten. No, he's just a big Ty Dillinger fan.
00:10:51
Speaker
Jesse is excited to be announcing for Starrcade. JR throws to Eric Bischoff for a WCW special report.
00:11:07
Speaker
Thanks Jim. And it has been confirmed. Ravishing Rick Rood has suffered a herniated disc and doctors confirmed that he is going to be out for a minimum of five to seven weeks and will not be able to face Ron Simmons. Now in a related statement the WCW Board of Directors have announced that Dr. Death Steve Williams will challenge Ron Simmons for that WCW World's Heavyweight Championship tonight at Starrcade 92. I'm Eric Bischoff for the WCW Magazine.
00:11:33
Speaker
I noticed that they were able to convene the WCW board of directors fast enough to deal with this situation. Aren't they the same people? No, presumably they're different, I guess. It's probably Turner folks for WCW. That's true.
00:11:45
Speaker
This video, set in what looks like a production room, is clearly not live. So, I'm not sure why, since we clearly knew before the show that Rick Roode wasn't going to be in his title match, they didn't update the opening video package to, you know, avoid mentioning Rick Roode as well. That's a little bit strange. I have a little more on that, by the way.
00:12:05
Speaker
I only have access to WWE Saturday Night to reference for these shows that Wikipedia. So I watched the summer 26th episode. Rick Roode wrestles on that show against Eric Watt. So, oh he's so good. And they have no mention that he's gonna be absent. Weird. Now just to be clear, WWE Saturday Night is pre-taped. Yeah. So he didn't literally wrestle that day and somehow in the two days between injured. Hmm.
00:12:31
Speaker
I don't know, they must have really thought he would get better. Yeah, must be a case where they think he's gonna recover up until, you know, maybe the day of, I don't know. They go to the doctor and they see it's worse. Yeah, but it's just strange that they can't update the opening video package when they can clearly do some pre-taped thing with Eric here. Well, that costs money.
00:12:47
Speaker
Yeah. Eric sounded much less fakie this time at least. He sounds much more legit doing his kind of like reporter reading there. Well he's good in small doses so I'm sure it'll stay that way. I think it's the wall of TVs back there that gives him some... Yeah, it feels very official. Yeah. In other bad news, Rick Roode has shaved his mustache. The loss for us all. So now he's just Roode.
00:13:14
Speaker
J.R. and Jesse react to the announcement. They're happy for Dr. Death, but Jesse sympathizes with Rude. This was the biggest day of his life and now he's not going to be allowed to wrestle.
00:13:24
Speaker
JR says that everyone is ready for Battle Bowl and we get a picture-in-picture shot of the two locker rooms. Seeing Jush and Leg are just kind of chilling out in a chair in full costume is oddly funny to me. It's like you've got just a bunch of normal people there and then just like picture Batman just chilling out in a chair in a normal athletic locker room. It's oddly less distracting than seeing Scott Hall just sitting there for me last year. Yeah.
00:13:51
Speaker
J.R. throws to Tony Schiavone, who's standing by in the ring with current head of WCW, Bill Watts, and baseball legend and TBS and Atlanta Braves executive, Hank Aaron. Watts talks about establishing a new tradition, giving a ring, much like a Super Bowl ring, to the winner of Battle Bowl each year. So of course it entirely makes sense to have baseball great, Hank Aaron, hand out a ring styled after a football tradition. Okay, to be fair, players get rings for the World Series too, but Watts only mentions the Super Bowl.
00:14:23
Speaker
Sting joins them, wearing an epic sparkly blue, white, and gold coat, and Eren hands him the Battle Bowl ring. Eren congratulates him, and Sting notes that Eren had 715 home runs. Actually, it's 755. 715 was just what he needed to best Babe Ruth. But Sting is hoping he can get a streak of his own going tonight by going two in a row for Battle Bowl rings. I sure hope Sting's not aiming for 755 Battle Bowl rings, because that would be a lot of Battle Bowl shows. I don't think I could take it.
00:14:52
Speaker
Yeah, I feel like two is too many at this point. It's really, really weird that they're giving an award on this show for something that Sting did a year ago, right? A little bit, yeah. It is a bit of an afterthought.
Lethal Lottery: Match Analysis
00:15:04
Speaker
They're like, oh, we should try to do something. Yeah. Consider if championship wins worked like that. Well, Sting, congratulations. You've won the world title. We'll give you the actual belt just before your first title defense. That would be strange. Well, it's like the Grammys. You know, you hold the trophy and then you give the real one like three weeks later. Yeah, I guess so.
00:15:22
Speaker
In this case, 51 weeks later, but you know, hey. So the ring is a cool idea, but this was just all kinds of awkward. I mean, I'm glad that they chose Hammer and Hank, but it did seem awkward because he goes to put his hand out to shake Sting's hand. Sting just like doesn't see it. And they should have had him do a little bit longer speech or something. I don't know. It feels like they put it together at like the last minute, despite having a ring crafted, which is weird. Speaking of awkward.
00:15:51
Speaker
Bill Watts tenure will not last much longer beyond this show because in early 1993, wrestling journalist and future WCW announcer Mark Madden will notify Hank Aaron about an interview that Watts did with the pro wrestling torch prior to his hiring in which Watts made some pretty awful comments about black people, about slavery, about homosexuality, and spoke in favor of discrimination by business owners.
00:16:17
Speaker
Aaron was very justifiably upset and pressed for Watts removal. Watts may or may not have quit before he was fired. So this is a short tenure for Bill Watts for very understandable and justifiable reasons.
00:16:33
Speaker
Tony throws to Larry Zabisco and Missy Hyatt, handling the Lethal Lottery drawings tonight. Zabisco notes that they've got 35 athletes ready, but only 11 will face their destiny. I was a little confused by that, with four tag matches Battle Ball would feature 16 men, but I think I figured it out.
00:16:51
Speaker
Hyatt says they drew the first two teams that the last clash of the champions. I'm not sure why they didn't just do all of them then, but that's beside the point. And we already know that Sting is in. He's going to be defending his Battle Bowl title effectively. So Larry's saying that there's 35 men still available to be drawn. And with five of the final 16 determined already, there's 11 more to come. Still a weird way to say it though. Yeah. So the odds are in Tom Zink's favor then. Sure. Well, it's time for our first match. So let's go to the ring.
00:17:22
Speaker
Our first match for the Lethal Lottery is Heavy Metal Van Hammer and Dangerous Dan Spivey versus Cactus Jack and Johnny B. Bad. Randy Anderson is our referee. They're the team to the teams that knew about the drawing in advance. Cactus Jack, Johnny B. Bad don't get along because they're very vastly different people. They've imagined the 26th episode of the Saturday night where they win, but they also come to blows. So they're not happy. Okay.
00:17:52
Speaker
I guess Dansebivy and David Hammer also exist because they have no tension whatsoever. They're just chill, I guess. Van Hammer is dressed like a cowboy, which doesn't feel particularly metal. My best guess is maybe he's trying to cater to Bill Watts? He looks like a disco Paul Hogan to me. Nice! Yeah, I can see that entirely.
00:18:18
Speaker
There is an incredibly long pause between Hammer's entrance and Spivey's announcement, which was strange since these names have already been drawn. At first, I thought they were waiting to hear the next name, but they know who these ones are. Yeah. Spivey makes really good crazy eyes as you come down the ramp, though. Angry eyes, Michael Keaton. Yes, definitely.
00:18:41
Speaker
Johnny B. Bad is also wearing a cowboy hat, though his is sparkly. He carries a long pop gun filled with confetti that he fires out at the crowd. Jack and Hammer start. Jack Hammer? Yeah, it would have been a good team name if they'd been teammates. It's interesting hearing the word Jack Hammer is some sort of foreshadowing for later shows as well. Yeah, yeah.
00:19:04
Speaker
Jack tries to sneak in a pin with his feet on the ropes that Ref Randy Anderson stops. Hammer hits a nice jumping leg drop, but after Jack tags Bad, Hammer hits an absolutely terrible elbow drop, clearly landing, then falling over to hit Bad. Bad hits rapid arm drags and goes for a Frankensteiner, which Hammer basically takes on his head. I can't imagine that's what he meant to do. It gets two.
00:19:28
Speaker
Spivey in against Jack, and Spivey takes control with some powerful strikes. Hammer can't keep it, though, as Jack jabs him in the eyes. Bad looks irritated with Jack's tactics as Jack tags him, and when Jack tries to hold Hammer for Bad, Bad forces him to let go. Jesse says that Bad is arrogant.
00:19:46
Speaker
Spivey and Hammer don't get along much better, as Spivey knees Bad in the back from outside, and when Hammer protests, Spivey just tags himself in and hits an awesome, high-impact side slam on Bad. We get a blessedly short bear hug by Spivey, and Hammer and Spivey trade off to keep Bad down. Jesse points out that Hammer doesn't like Spivey's tactics, but he's happy to benefit from them. Bad gets an opening after he and Spivey knock heads and both go down, and Bad reaches Jack just as Spivey shoves him, face first, into the top rope.
00:20:17
Speaker
Yeah. He rolls outside to recover, and JR says that Spivey pushed him through the ropes, which I'm guessing was the plan. That went slightly wrong. Jack and Spivey have a brutal brawl, really hard-hitting, and it starts to turn against Jack. He goes for the tag, but Bad is still out on the floor. Jesse accuses Bad of loafing. Tag to Hammer, who hits a flying shoulder block. He goes for a pin, but Bad gets in and tries an elbow drop to break it up. But Hammer dodges, and Bad hits Jack.
00:20:46
Speaker
Jack gets up and shoves Bad, so Bad decks him with a nice left hook, and Hammer rolls Jack up for the pin. Bad gestures Good riddance at Jack as Hammer and Spivey celebrate. As they leave, we see a sign in the crowd that says, The Stooges, Moe, Larry, Curly, Van Hammer. So, not a fan then? Jesse twice says that Bad hit Jack with a right hand, even while the replay is showing it was definitely a left. Well, he was looking at a reflection of it. Oh, okay. Watching it in a mirror. Yeah.
00:21:16
Speaker
It was a decent match. I was worried the storyline stuff with them not getting along would overtake everything. Up until the end when obviously it's super important to the finish, they felt like they keep it in check, like the subtle interactions of them not being happy. Obviously Van Hammer is kind of a dead weight. He's a little better in this than he has in other shows. He has the 50-50 ratio of good leg drop, then bad elbow drop. And really the worst thing he does is to himself, I guess.
00:21:43
Speaker
Oh God, that looks so painful when he fell down on his head on that. That was one of those moments that I'm like, I'm glad I know this guy goes on to have several more matches that looked like that would have been really bone-breaking. Yeah. The overall is pretty good. It's still weird that the finish involves the face betraying the heel in this scenario.
00:22:06
Speaker
I get that he's mad, but that's definitely interesting to do with that dynamic. You'd think if Hactus turned on him for some reason. But no. I see them as opposing forces. There's no face and heel in this one. Cactus Jack can be both. He's his own enemy in some ways. And in my notes, I have everyone won except for Cactus Jack.
00:22:28
Speaker
It made me very sad, actually, because, you know, I do enjoy him as a performer and he plays that character very well. Yeah. At least a lot more consistent than Van Hammer because Van Hammer sometimes is not playing a wrestler. Like something else, I don't know. But, you know, it was a decent start of Starrcade. We've had some real dud first matches. At least this one, there's some nice technical bits and spots, but it was short, sweet.
00:22:57
Speaker
It's a shame cactus track isn't isn't In the running. Yeah, I know I knew you guys would both be like We really wanted more cactus out of this show after because he was both of your MVP is last time right act. Yeah. Yeah
00:23:13
Speaker
Yeah, this was okay. It had its moments, honestly. There was some very good offense from Bad, whether Hammer could actually take it well is another matter. And Jack and Spivey had a really nice brawling bit towards the end. That got really intense, I was surprised. The match story is all kinds of muddled, I think. The faces appear to have problems with the heel's tactics sometimes, but they just go along with it at other times. It doesn't feel like the situation builds quite sufficiently enough to Bad decking Jack. There needed to be more attention in the match.
00:23:41
Speaker
or more open arguing. It just kind of looked like Jack lightly shoved bad and that set him off. Like you said, it doesn't feel natural that he's betraying him for that.
00:23:52
Speaker
Honestly thought the announcer like gave him the idea like oh, yeah, you guys aren't together. Are you yeah? Yeah? Oh, yeah, I'm not then yeah So yeah, it feels like bad just loses his temper for no real reason and that I don't think was the intent Still a few nice moves here and it kept moving pretty well He had a respectable pacing for an opening match But it just didn't really have the sense of energy to go along with it if that makes any sense. Yeah, yeah
00:24:19
Speaker
Cactus Jack would have a very interesting 1993. He would work a lot with Vader, which would be good and bad for him physically and mentally. On the flip side, Johnny Bad would go into program with Max Payne. Oh, poor guy. He's definitely not the winner in this scenario. No. Sadly, it's not the Max Payne video game character a little bit. Much better.
00:24:42
Speaker
Tony joins Zabisco and Hyatt as they draw the names for the next teams. So our second match for the Lethal Lottery again is The Natural, Dustin Rhodes and Big Van Vader with Harley Race versus The Barbarian and Kintsuki Sasaki. The referee for this match is Mike Atkins. In the cable tournament, which is a bigger thing later,
00:25:05
Speaker
There's this long bracket that people have fought. So during that, I think they mentioned this very briefly. Rhodes actually beat Barbarian in the tournament. Oh, okay. But his match following that, he loses to Vader. Oh, interesting. So three people in the tournament are in this match. Yeah. It would be a nice storyline for them to bring up for tension, but they just don't feel like it, I guess. That's kind of neat. Yeah.
00:25:29
Speaker
Vader asks people who's the man as he walks down the ramp, race chats with Rhodes as the other team enters, and J.R. informs us that Rhodes and Vader met in the semi-finals of the King of Cable tournament. Jesse says that when you're in the ring, you're there to win. You'd better put aside old differences to achieve victory. Vader and Barbarian shake hands, and Jesse praises their sportsmanship. J.R. says it really warms his heart. He sounds very sincere.
00:25:55
Speaker
and then the push yeah so vader ends that with a shove and the two test their strength shoving each other around and utterly ignoring clothes lines from each other barbarian slams vader with ease and vader looks pretty impressed at that the two smashed into each other twice with no reaction but vader jumps at barbarian and body checks him down on the third time then lays in a beating with forearm strikes in the corner barbarian fights back with hard clothes lines but vader knocks him down with one of his own and tags roads
00:26:22
Speaker
They have a really nice team-up with Vader lifting Barbarian for a road-jumping clothesline, but Rhodes can't keep Barbarian away from Sasaki. Rhodes and Sasaki land hard hits, and Sasaki gets Rhodes down and goes up top. But Rhodes springs up and catches him in mid-air with a perfectly timed dropkick. That was really cool.
00:26:42
Speaker
Vader in to nail Sasaki with a body check off the second rope with so much momentum that Vader keeps going, stumbling all the way across the ring. Closed line and a huge power slam, but Sasaki kicks out as JR excitedly yells, He kicked out! The kid kicked out! And gets really into it.
00:26:57
Speaker
Sasaki fights back, but Vader keeps taking him down with massive hits, until Sasaki counters a Vader suplex with his own nice and smooth. Both are down, but both make it to their partners. Rogue uses fast hard strikes to get barbarian reeling, and ends on a lariat for two as Sasaki saves.
00:27:14
Speaker
Sasaki goes back out, but Rhodes follows him to the ropes and brawls with him. Barbarian tries to sneak in a hit from behind, but Rhodes ducks and Barbarian clobbers Sasaki, so Rhodes rolls Barbarian up for the pin. Rhodes and Vader celebrate, until Vader suddenly clotheslines Rhodes down. Race drops a neon Rhodes, but Sasaki runs in and stands in defense of Rhodes until Vader, Race, and Barbarian leave, Vader energetically making Vader signs the whole way back.
00:27:40
Speaker
I like this one for the most part. I like that Vader really got a chance to shine in this. Yeah, obviously in the previous show we had, there's a bit of a handicap because we didn't have good opponents, honestly. I mean, Nightstar could do almost nothing in the match, but even Mr. Hughes is not, you know, not your five-star caliber opponent. So having him someone he can really do more interaction with and sport smoothly is really nice.
00:28:02
Speaker
What's interesting with Vader is that he really does sell the power, but also weakness when necessary. Like, he could have fully no sold being buy slammed, but he sells it briefly and acts really annoyed that it happened. Yeah. It's a nice little character. It kind of gives him a look like, oh, I respect you a little more now.
00:28:20
Speaker
Yeah. I can see that. Now, I do think you're underselling the impact when you call it the second what BodyTechy does is a sake. Better visual I have for it is the picture you're in a moving company and you're just you distract, you know, you're licking your phone or what have you and your partner decides to shove their refrigerator off the truck. That is what being hit by Vader is like. Yeah, it was significant.
00:28:43
Speaker
Everyone did a pretty good job here. Barbarian has never been my favorite wrestler, but he's always been reliable at what he does. I like that he doesn't try to do too much different, and he really nails the fundamentals of what his character is and what he does. He's never going to have a five-star match for me, but he's never going to have a one-star match for me either, so it's a good little ground with him. The only one that feels out of here, which is nothing to knock on his ability, is Sasaki.
00:29:08
Speaker
It's weird that he's here given that everyone else has story and then just here's this guy. Yeah. Cause yeah, he has no character interaction with any of the people. It just feels like they need a fourth person and they picked him. I could speculate his reasons why they picked him, but I'll get that later. Okay. It's a good match and roll. I thought Vader definitely is the one comes out the best. Yeah.
00:29:29
Speaker
Yeah, Vader doesn't move like someone his size. No. And you can tell that there's some, uh, there's some weight behind it for sure. Even Barbarian doesn't have to sell very hard. And Barbarian does look like a NeverQuest character, by the way, like straight up, like one of the things you can select as a default. Yes, yeah.
00:29:48
Speaker
It's nice to see him push back against Vader here and there, but it seems like both speed and power still belong to Vader. And honestly, I don't really have much to say about Sasaki because, you know, again, the rest of the match was dominated by Vader. You know, it's really the only person I was really paying attention to whenever he's in the ring. He's very easy to watch. Yeah. Well, that and like the referee looks like he's afraid of him. Like he's afraid he's going to get piled over or like rolled over at any point.
00:30:19
Speaker
It's a perfectly reasonable fear. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. You know, it's one of those things that you do see the set it up between him and Rhodes and Rhodes is always a great wrestler and can pull on those cues like few others can, but you know, Vader still, still the highlight of the match for me.
00:30:37
Speaker
Yeah, I think this one had a little bit of a slow start with Vader and Barbarian just kind of trading the same moves, though that was still kind of cool. But once they got past proving that they were just as tough as each other, this was all action and really fun. This was hard hitting and fast with some surprising spots that Vader body check from the second rope looked absolutely brutal. And Sasaki, I really actually paid a lot of attention to. I thought he got to look really good here. And the suplex on Vader was particularly impressive.
00:31:07
Speaker
Oh yeah, I don't take nothing away from what he actually did in the ring. Rhodes really showed a lot of fire. The pace picked up from the moment he got in. I did feel like Rhodes brawling with Sasaki was a little out of nowhere, but maybe we're supposed to get that it was Rhodes' plan to lure Barbarian in with that. It feels like that's suggested, but it's unclear. I did like this version of Tension Between Partners, though, with Vader and Rhodes sticking together until the match was over and only then having Vader betray Rhodes.
00:31:34
Speaker
That was funny as JR gets confused. He's like, why is he doing that? Why is he attacking his partner? I'm like, wait, it's not his partner anymore. The match is over. Yeah. Yeah. It makes sense. Yeah. Jesse says, I think a little bit later that now that Vader's got what he needs out of Rhodes, he wants to eliminate him as competition for later. Yeah. It makes sense. That's a tremendous heel thing to do. Yeah, that's really good. Yeah. I much preferred this version of tag team tension to the weird sting Abdullah.
00:32:03
Speaker
stuff last year that just kind of interrupted the match too much but yeah really good match and honestly if I were you know setting up the show I think I would have put this first and the cactus match second because this has just like that energy that I felt like the first one was kind of missing
00:32:20
Speaker
been didn't really can make a case that maybe you want to have uh... match where you know all the opponents to be the last one go on as well they could see that if you build and build a new or not that we know they've always time to pension bill more
00:32:33
Speaker
Yeah. I think that's also a really good way, like you said, to build tension. But you could also switch up the show if you wanted to. If someone got hurt earlier on, then you could put whoever you want in that final match. Some variant on the this guy wants to partner with this guy thing and that they did last year and have
00:32:52
Speaker
Bad, who we know is going to be Cactus' partner, or maybe even have Cactus just beat the crap out of him backstage. Yeah. They have to draw another partner for him or something. Though I'd kind of be sad at that because Bad's performance was pretty good in that match, but... The double team move that Vader and Road to Doubt is basically the heart attack. Right, yeah, yeah. It's just weird to see that in W2W and with no heart family person at all here. Yeah.
00:33:20
Speaker
Are you gonna tell Vader he can't use that move? No. No. Not even close. Barbarian is not super long for WCW. He hangs around about halfway through the year and then it goes from being on TV regularly to being on house shows and then being gone quickly. It's a sort of slow slide for him. Sasaki doesn't wrestle too much more in WCW at the time, although he is on the WCW New Japan Super Show, which they air in March, but is recorded in January.
00:33:49
Speaker
Road Warrior Animal is injured around this time period. So Robert Hawk, wrestling almost slowly in Japan at this point, finds a new partner in the form of Suzuki, who is the Power Warrior. Ah, okay. And they form a very successful tag team in Japan called, no lie, the Hellraisers.
00:34:09
Speaker
That's good. Nice. Their match on Super Show is them against the Stiners. Would it be interesting to see on their debut promoted show given that the Stiners left? Oh, true, yeah. So don't worry, they took care of that. They just cut the match from the show. Aww. Yeah. A little petty. Jeez. Yeah. Oh, you're not here anymore? Well, bloop. Play set. Wonder if the footage exists somewhere, if the network can get it at some point. Yeah, the New Japan version of the show. Maybe, yeah.
00:34:40
Speaker
J.R. quickly announces that Super Brawl 3 is coming up and we see the logo quickly. I feel like these ads are getting a bit lazier. We go back for another drawing and Tony says that we're already halfway through. What wonderful words those are. So our third match for the Lethal Lottery is Barry Windham and the Great Muda versus Two Cold Scorpio and Flyin' Brian Pillman. The referee for this match is Nick Patrick.
00:35:08
Speaker
And oh my, Barry Windham and Brian Pillman, tag partners, have been drawn against each other. Who would ever have imagined that? Shock and awe. Two years of Battle Ball, and that happens in both years.
00:35:27
Speaker
Bizarrely, Wyndham comes out, then Scorpio, then Pillman, then finally Muda, even though Muda is Wyndham's partner. Yeah. That's a little weird. Announcer Gary Michael Capetta just kind of takes it in stride. I've just wondered, was Muda still touching up his paint backstage? I don't know. He's back on the red paint this year, but with blue parts as well to match his sparkly blue jacket.
00:35:50
Speaker
Scorpio and Windom start, and Scorpio's speed and agility give Windom trouble. Scorpio uses a series of arm drags and an arm lock to control, even countering a Windom arm drag with his own in a nice flowing spot. Windom instinctively reaches for Pillman, before realizing he's not his partner this time. That was nice of a touch here.
00:36:07
Speaker
Yeah. Windham manages to stretch to his corner to tag Muda, and it takes Scorpio a moment to realize what happened. Windham oddly argues with Muda, but ref Nick Patrick ushers him out. The crowd chants for Muda, and he does well against Scorpio and Pillman in turn, including an awesome acrobatic sequence with Pillman as they dodge around each other's moves. Jesse calls Muda, poetry in motion.
00:36:28
Speaker
Tag to Windham and he and Pillman face off. It starts careful but quickly turns aggressive with the two trading blows before Windham realizes what they're doing and stops it, motioning for calm. Windham shoves Pillman to the corner to tag out to Muda. Pillman keeps up with Muda until Muda spin-kicks him right in the face, so Pillman responds by smacking him to the middle turnbuckle and pressing him hard against it as we get some great pained expressions from Muda.
00:36:51
Speaker
Pillman trades out to Scorpio to continue the attack, but Muda gets his knees up on a splash to tag Wyndham. Scorpio can't outrun Wyndham now, so Wyndham utterly demolishes him with big power moves. Suplex float over into a pin and is especially smooth. Wyndham always does that really well. Back to Muda, and Muda and Wyndham hit a double drop kick together. I wasn't expecting that. Muda hits his power drive elbow and an interesting leg hold, and Scorpio hits a hard knee strike and a cool rotating leg drop off the ropes.
00:37:20
Speaker
Muda spin-kicks Scorpio out onto the ramp, but Scorpio knocks him down and tries a flipping splash. But his knee comes down early, and Muda nearly takes it on the groin. Windom saves, and Pillman comes in too. Muda throws Pillman out, and Windom DDTs Scorpio. Muda climbs up top and delivers his moonsault. It kinda mostly misses, actually. For the pin, as Pillman is a split second too late to save. Pillman gives Windom a glare and goes to check on Scorpio, but Windom drags Pillman away, and they walk off.
00:37:50
Speaker
Thankfully, for once, we have four really solid workers together, so there's no drag on it, which I liked. It feels to me this is the easier to deal with version of the tense tag partners thing, because it doesn't really track for the match that much. They put a little bit in there of them shoving each other and realizing the mistake, otherwise it's a fairly normal match without stopping and reminding you that there's a story going on.
00:38:15
Speaker
It's very quick as well. This one can almost be an interesting opening as well. Especially given that you have the, you know, shock tag partners against each other thing. That could really sell the how surprising and random this whole show is survived. Well, they didn't want to do that in the first match two years in a row. That'd be just way too repetitive. So clear. They had a show last year with 10 tag matches. They were maybe repetitive? Yeah. Okay. Just checking.
00:38:41
Speaker
Uh, it's neat to see Scorpio here because, uh, reading that, Scorpio didn't debut in WWE until October of that year, of 1992. Oh, wow. Yeah, he's a surprise tag number and matched Ron Simmons. So this is his first real big show and this stage.
00:38:58
Speaker
He actually did really well. His speed is really good. Scorpio's thing, no matter where he's at, especially the 90s through 2000s, is always finding some slight version of a move no one's done before. He starts doing the moon salt leg drop, ECW for instance.
00:39:15
Speaker
I like the idea of his, his sort of, basically he flips into the ring, turning it into a 450, essentially. Yeah. He doesn't quite get the spacing of that right. Like if Muda was like an inch or two forward, that probably would have worked out just fine, I think. Yeah, I think so. But you kind of gloss over that because Muda clearly just basically backflips splashes himself and puts his hand down on Pim with less second.
00:39:36
Speaker
It's a shame because his moonsault come down to these really beautiful, and this case, the flip itself is still really impressive, it's just the collision's off, unfortunately. He just goes too far with it. Oh, yeah. It's by no means the worst moonsault I've seen, which is kind of sad when it's him doing that. You really hope it'll be perfect every time, and it's gonna be expected.
00:39:56
Speaker
Whatever I thought was good, the only show I have decided those two movies not quite going right is how awkward the Pillowman stuff is. Because he's on the apron, sees Moo to go for the Moonsault, and he kind of waits to go into the ring and then kicks him at like 2.9 and it just doesn't matter, basically. Yeah. The timing was just a little weird. Other than that, I thought it was good, though.
00:40:17
Speaker
That was a really solid match. I did enjoy watching Scorpio throughout the match. He used various techniques, like I was saying, that there's a little bit of a twist to them. I don't know the names of all the moves, but you can tell that he has his own unique style and that while some things are not perfect in Finesse, they still look like they work.
00:40:37
Speaker
Yeah. The one where he flips over the ropes and lands on Muda. Did a little over rotation on it, but he recovered like immediately. I don't expect the same aerial prowess as, you know, Muda. For sure. Yeah. But it was lively. I agree that it would have been better placed in a different spot in the show.
00:40:57
Speaker
I just wanted to call, the only thing I have on the thing other than everyone being springy is the Double Dragon Surprise Dropkick. Yeah. Which I thought was done really well. I just was not expecting Wyndham to do that at all. Like Muda, you expect that from, but Wyndham looks like this big bruiser guy. You don't expect him to, one, throw a Dropkick, and two, throw a really beautiful Dropkick that looked just as good as Muda's there. No, it synced up real well. Yeah, they did a good job with that.
00:41:28
Speaker
Yeah, I thought a really good fast-paced match might be a little sloppy at times. There's points where Scorpio seems to get a bit ahead of himself or where people aren't quite in the right position for a move, like you guys were saying, but it doesn't stop the spots from being really cool. It does just hurt the suspension of disbelief a little bit.
00:41:46
Speaker
Still, I really enjoyed this one. Scorpio and Muda had some particularly cool acrobatic sequences, and I really liked the tense interactions between Pillman and Windham. It felt like they know their partners, but they both really want to win this, and they did a good job of showing that it was hard restraining themselves for the good of their later match. Pillman in particular looked like he wanted to prove he was better than Windham when they faced off. I can see that, yeah. He had this look on his face like, no, why are we stopping? I want to do this.
00:42:13
Speaker
Wyndham had some great power spots too. He was the big guy in a match with a bunch of faster wrestlers, but he didn't look like a slouch. And I will never retire of Buddha spin kicks. They're vicious. Very fun match here. It could just be a little smoother. That's all. So interestingly enough, both people on the losing team here would form very successful tag teams in 1993 in WWE places.
00:42:38
Speaker
Pillman would, of course, go on to form the Hollywood Blind with Steve Austin, which should be good. Yep. Slightly less exciting is to go Scorpio teaming with Buff Bagwell, or Marcus Bagwell, excuse me. Marcus Alexander Bagwell. Oh, I'm sorry. I'm not the teacher getting mad at him at school, I'll have to say. It's all three names. Yeah, it's interesting that they're both in separate tag teams. Just after teaming up. Yeah, that's interesting. We go to our fourth match.
00:43:07
Speaker
which is Sting and Dr. Death Steve Williams versus Eric Watts and Jushin Thunder Liger. Our referee for this match is Randy Anderson. Sting, of course, is guaranteed in this because he was the Battle Bowl champion last year, so we don't actually have a drawing for him, we just draw his partner. Zavisco calls Dr. Death one of the last of the real men.
00:43:36
Speaker
Eric Watts has been in the company since August, having only been wrestling for three months prior to that. Funny how he's suddenly in a Starrcade match across from Sting, huh? He even had an undefeated streak going up until early December. It might have something to do with his last name. Is it like a really nice last name? Is that people just like him because of that? No.
00:43:56
Speaker
Oh, because he's the other guy, yeah, I see. Yeah, yeah. Eric Watts is Bill Watts' son. So Eric Watts gets pushed because he's his kid, even though... He did seem a little green. Yes. A bit. By this point, I was getting really, really tired of this year's Starrcade theme because it played incessantly between every Lethal Lottery match. It's true, yeah, it did, isn't it? Oh, God, I was getting really annoyed.
00:44:23
Speaker
Dr. Death is announced as now residing in Nagoya, Japan. Sting sadly left his coat backstage, but the crowd still drowns out the music with cheers, so I'm happy. They are less thrilled with Eric Watts. JR notes that Dr. Death was a protรฉgรฉ of Bill Watts, but now he's facing his son. Just kind of an interesting tidbit there. Yeah. Liger makes up for Sting's missing coat by coming out with an awesome gold, blue, and white cape that only makes us look even more amazing. That looks so cool. That is pretty cool, yeah.
00:44:54
Speaker
The crowd erupts in cheers, as Sting and Ligar are almost at Sting and Lugar.
00:45:00
Speaker
The crowd erupts in cheers as Sting and Liger face off, and Sting rewards them with a stinger call. Fast start as Liger outpaces Sting, but Sting resists his blows and is fast enough to dodge his bigger hits. JR says that Sting is really fast for his size, though nobody's as fast as Liger. Sting tags Dr. Death, and Dr. Death comes in aggressively with kicks. He tries a suplex, but Liger lands behind and lands kicks and punches only for Dr. Death to... rake his eyes? Come on, the mask totally covers them, that shouldn't work.
00:45:30
Speaker
We're just pulling out of the way, just really annoying. I guess, I don't know. You're still gonna blink. I guess. JR notes that Liger and Dr. Death work for competing companies in Japan, so you would never get to see this match there. Liger tags Watts, who gets a sloppy arm drag, but does get a better one a moment later. Dr. Death mostly dominates with forearms and knee strikes, but Watts hits a crossbody for two. Dr. Death flings him to the ropes, but Watts sneaks in a tag to Liger, who catches Dr. Death by surprise with kicks. That was kind of a nice spot.
00:45:59
Speaker
Liger keeps up the offense but can't monkey flip Dr. Death out of the quarter, shades of fantastics, so Dr. Death murders him with a monster clothesline. Dr. Death pins Liger's corpse, but Liger resurrects and kicks out at two. Dr. Death and Sting trade off hurling Liger around the ring like a ragdoll, with Liger only managing a sunset flip before taking an extended beat down. Dr. Death chokes Liger and gets aggressive, while Sting fights clean. Liger finally hits a facebuster on Dr. Death and gets a tag to Watts.
00:46:28
Speaker
The crowd boos. Jeez. The crowd knows what's coming. Yeah. Watts trades blows with Dr. Death and whips him to the ropes for the worst drop kick. Ever. No question. It's just totally mistimed. He was way too close as Dr. Death rebounded, so he's barely airborne when Dr. Death reaches him. JR generously claims that Dr. Death held onto the ropes to stop it. Really nice try, JR, but no.
00:46:59
Speaker
Watts goes for the STF. Dr. Death makes the ropes to force a break just as Watts gets it locked in. JR says that otherwise Dr. Death would definitely have submitted. Watts charges, but Dr. Death dumps him out through the ropes. Watts holds on and drags himself back in. Dr. Death hits strikes and Watts tries a crossbody, but Dr. Death dumps him neck first on the top rope for the pin. Dr. Death and Sting stare each other down, but celebrate their win.
00:47:23
Speaker
So I was really excited for this match seeing three of the four names involved. Yes. Then there's there's an issue, obviously. Dr. Death showed up. Now he's fully recovered from the growing strike. He suffered a few years back. Yes. Barry Windham, thankfully.
00:47:41
Speaker
No, yeah, I don't mean it to be mean to the guy, but Eric Watts just should not have been this position. No. It's not like he couldn't and wouldn't become a better wrestler later. It's just, yeah, this is not the right place for him. And that drop kick really just kind of sells it.
00:47:58
Speaker
Who would you rather have? I mean, don't say anyone. Who makes sense story-wise? Well, there's not really any story to this at all anyway, so you can pick it anyway. Yeah, probably. I guess Austin's in the company and not on the show. That would have been cool. That's actually a very good point.
00:48:17
Speaker
That would be good. It'd be interesting too, because Steve Austin's real name is Steve Williams. That's correct. Which is why he got Austin. He's on a show that Dr. Death is on. Austin is still at that point going by Steve Williams, and they realize it shortly before the show and tell him to come up with another name. When he can't before his match, Dutch Mantell basically tells him, you're Steve Austin, go out there. I just thought he was a big fan of the $6 million man.
00:48:46
Speaker
But yeah, it's one of the ones I'm not mad at Eric Watt for being here. If, you know, my dad was in company and thought I was good enough, I could see myself being talked into going out even that ready. It's not like he's really bad and trying to get away with it. No.
00:49:03
Speaker
My bigger problem, it's hard to say in that Dropkick exists in this match, is just the way they booked the thing overall. For what reason, they booked Liger to just get beat up most of the match. I don't know why you would do that with him. Obviously, I don't like Eric Watts at this point, in case that wasn't clear, but I could see the storyline and the being Eric Watts up and then Liger again, they come back, just simply reverse the flow of the match with a lot better.
00:49:28
Speaker
Plus, I'm pretty sure Liger's Rocket would've been better, too. Yeah. You wonder if Watts just couldn't bump that extensively yet, either, maybe, and so it might be my necessity. If you're gonna have someone selling all the time, maybe it has to be Liger, because Watts, they don't trust to be able to take all the moves. I don't know. I mean, I wanna think that's true, but I'm pretty sure it's just his dad is running the company, so he has to be the big, shining face, even if he loses the match. Yeah.
00:49:53
Speaker
It's a shame that we don't get a lot of good Liger stuff in there. Because even the bit we get are a little tainted. I mean, his interaction with Sting in the beginning is really good. I just really want to see more of that. His spot with the Mookie Flip, you kind of undersell it there, because I like it because it's Reverend Zach's, that Fantasics match with them.
00:50:13
Speaker
Except the way he comes off in this match is Liger jumps at him, puts his leg down on Williams' legs to do the move, and then individually jumps off and does a roll. It doesn't look like he actually tries to tug at him, really? No, not even motley. It looked like he was trying to do some confusing drop kicks at the front of his legs, and then rolled away. No, that's left to Eric Watts. It's a probing attack.
00:50:38
Speaker
I could see what he's going for because his actual role often is really quick and impressive It's just he clearly wasn't actually doing the move before he did the jump Yeah, it's kind of staying the matching of the leagues. I really wanted to like a lot more
00:50:51
Speaker
Okay. I don't know who Watts is. So I don't have any expectation other than in the very beginning. I'm like, wow, you know, like he's doing some decent arm drags. And then I'm noticing he's just standing there and Dr. Death is throwing himself over, telling him where to move. I think that does a good job in the ring with him. But unfortunately, every time you have Liger versus Sting, it's just, I don't know. It's playful.
00:51:17
Speaker
Like it's energetic. It's like this is what should be happening. And it just stark contrast to what happens when Watts is in the ring. I don't like the zoom in on the ass shots, but that's fine. I show off the name.
00:51:31
Speaker
I like Super Liger coming in. It had a great buildup with the new cape and everything. He did have some decent spots in this where he showed off some of his skills, but he was pretty much a punching bag. Yeah. Again, I do think that's because of his experience. He definitely did a better job selling other than Watts. He would count to three, get punched three times and then punch three times back. There was a little bit of a pattern there. But at the end of the day, the outcome was not unexpected. Yeah.
00:52:02
Speaker
Yeah, I'm totally with you guys on that. This was much less than it could have been with Liger, Sting, and Dr. Death in there. Liger, I was bummed out they didn't do much offense too. Yeah. It hurts the match. He has a lot of cool spots and I feel like it would have been really cool to see him doing those against Dr. Death and Sting. Especially Sting, I think they could have had, they're both very fast wrestlers as they say.
00:52:26
Speaker
So don't get me wrong, there's some cool spots here and there, but they're all from the standpoint of Sting or Dr. Death just ragdolling Liger around, so he just doesn't get to show off at all. He did at least get to look resilient because he survived all that offense, so that was pretty nice. Yeah. Particularly since Dr. Death gets increasingly brutal over the course of the match, it just felt like there could have been so much more to it. And Watts, like you said, yeah...
00:52:51
Speaker
The guy's only been wrestling at all for a few months. He's just not ready. I don't fault him for it, like you were saying, Alec. He just, he can't perform reliably yet. He's new, and it's very obvious that he's new. And unfortunately, he doesn't have like a big character to cover it up like, say, DDP did last year. That's true, yeah.
00:53:10
Speaker
So, you know, I guess at the least he will never be forgotten, courtesy of that terrible drop kick. But I'm not sure that's a good thing. He recovered, he did another one right afterwards. Yes, he did do a better drop kick right afterwards. He does a good one when he doesn't have to time it to like the rebound off the ropes and stuff. Yeah. He's fine for the actual drop kick, it's just the timing I think that gets him. And he at least did the motions for the stuff, I mean the STF. Yes.
00:53:36
Speaker
And to his credit, he takes that final hotshot, the drop on the ropes like a champ. I think he did a good job with that. Yeah, I think he's actually out. Yeah, maybe he just legitimately knocks into the ropes that is like conscious. I don't know. But yeah, overall, really disappointing match here outside of a few nice spots here and there. And to our point on Austin being a better replacement for Eric Watts, the hotshot is Austin's move. Yes. Yeah. There you go. It's like he was there in spirit.
00:54:08
Speaker
There's an episode of Nitro, the year it's on, like it's 1999. They're doing this storyline where it's repeating itself. Rick Flair has his son now being heavily promoted. His son, David Flair. That's Solar Flair? No. They make the story that David Flair is not really winning his matches. Rick Flair is controlling the situation in the game to win. But what's funny is one of the opponents he's given as the veteran wrestlers he has to put him over is Eric Watts.
00:54:38
Speaker
So seven years from now, history has fully reversed itself. And he's in Dr. Despot. Eric Watts, veteran wrestler. Yeah. That threw my, when I saw that, I'm like, ah, what? That's awesome. Don't you get that after five years? Aren't you a veteran at that point? Sure. We'll go with that. I wonder if he gets better at drop kicks at that point. Generally. The Liger and Sting spots was the highlight of my night at this point.
00:55:05
Speaker
It was still a Liger bump, but there's one point where Sting gets in the ring, muscles him up really quickly over his shoulder, bodily carries him to the corner, rams him into the turnbuckle. I was like, yeah, that was good. Ah, that looked painful. Yeah. With Bill Watch losing his power earlier in the year, Eric Watch's prominence shockingly drops. Yeah. I can't figure it out. Unfortunately, we will not see Liger again until 1995. To be in Japan doing stuff is dead. Up until the first Nitro. Okay.
00:55:37
Speaker
Jesse and JR tell us we've now got our Battle Bowl lineup.
NWA World Heavyweight Championship Review
00:55:40
Speaker
What a difference from last year's blow to Battle Bowl, huh? Got 8 men rather than 20. They go over the competitors, and we get pictures of each of them in nice 90s glowy neon frames. I really like that.
00:55:52
Speaker
JR asks Jesse if he thinks that Sting can do it again. Jesse says that Sting got past the first stage, but he thinks it's unlikely that he's gonna win Battle Bowl twice. JR kind of sells it as Sting trying to defend a title, but Jesse, more accurately I think, says it's like trying to win two Super Bowls or two NCAA championships. Each year is its own thing, rather than one championship that can actually change hands. You're the 1992 Battle Bowl champion, but Sting's still the 1991 Battle Bowl champion.
00:56:22
Speaker
Yeah, it's a bit of greyer because with sports teams, like if, say, the Patriots repeat into a bowl, they'll refer to him as the defending champion, even though it's not low how it works, but yeah. Yeah. It's a common of expression. Yeah.
00:56:35
Speaker
JR throws to Tony and Zabisco, and they talk up the NWA title match as we see footage of Muda as Kijimudo, his non-face painted variety, and Chono from Japan. Larry says that Muda is a great aerial fighter, but Chono is a better mat wrestler, and eventually they're going to end up on the mat, so he predicts that Chono will take it. Tony notes that Chono is the master of the STF, which Eric Watts tried to put on in the last match. It's a tough competition there between the two of them. Oh yeah, yeah, absolutely. Neck and neck.
00:57:07
Speaker
So our fifth match is the great Muda versus Masahiro Chono for Chono's NWA World Heavyweight Championship. Our referee for this match is Mike Atkins. JR praises WCW for managing to sign the rematch between Muda and Chono and says that promoters worldwide were bidding on it, but WCW got it. Meanwhile, we get a sign in the crowd displaying a bullseye. The sign reads, Hey, Muda, spray here. I'm just going to leave that one there.
00:57:37
Speaker
Yeah. It's green mist. Yeah, I hope that's what they mean.
00:57:42
Speaker
Other fans are holding up letter signs for Starrcade 92, but with only one R. So I think they heard you, John. Maybe. We get Muda chance again, and we get a nice shot of the big gold belt. The two trade hard strikes at first with a big chono kick, but Muda rebounds off the ropes for a charging forearm. They go to mat wrestling, ending with a chono enziguri that sends Muda rolling outside to shake it off. Muda's face paint is really messed up. It makes him look like a bloody mess.
00:58:12
Speaker
fitting for him, honestly. True. I have Rudolf Muda. Great. Nice.
00:58:19
Speaker
Back in, and they trade headlocks, wristlocks, and strikes, as JR asks Jesse if he can interpret what they're saying, but Jesse says that he's pretty good at Tagalog, but not good at Japanese. Jesse was stationed in the Philippines when he was in the Navy. Cool spot as they lock hands for a test of strength, and Muda backflips but maintains the hold to change the leverage. Chono counters with a suplex while still maintaining the hold. That's a pretty nice complex spot there.
00:58:43
Speaker
They trade abdominal stretches and arm bars before Amuda figure four head scissors. Chona wraps Amuda's legs and bends painfully back in a pretty cool leg hold, but Amuda gets the ropes and ref Mike Atkins forces the break. Jesse has some good analysis during all these holds.
00:58:57
Speaker
Muda's limping, and Chono kicks him and throws him out through the ropes a couple of times. Chono follows him out the second time, but Muda escapes back in. Chono dominates with a sequence of arm holds, and slams Muda down to go up top, but Muda springs up and gets a superplex. Both lie there as Atkins counts, and Muda gets to his feet first. Muda gets a single-leg crab, and J.R. wonders if they'd still call the full thing a Boston crab in Japan. Jesse says they'd call it a Hiroshima crab. J.R. goes very, very quiet.
00:59:28
Speaker
Muda gets a bridging Indian Death Lock, and Jesse tries to discuss what that might be named in Japan, but JR just kind of ignores him. So Jesse thankfully goes back to just analyzing the moves. Good call. Yeah. Chono gets the ropes to force a break.
00:59:41
Speaker
Chono hits a nice snap suplex, but Muda dodges a clothesline to hit a spin kick, and Chono rolls out. Back in, Muda keeps control and hits the handspring elbow. Chono goes for the knee, but Muda hits a backbreaker and tries the moonsault. Chono dodges, and Muda lands on his feet, but hurts his knee, and Chono goes to work on it. They repeat the kick and rebound forearm spot, and Muda gets an inside cradle for two and three quarters.
01:00:05
Speaker
Simultaneous dropkicks. Chono hits a brutal back suplex and goes for another, but Muda flips himself over and lands on top for two and three quarters again. Muda whips Chono to the ropes, but Chono grabs the ropes to avoid the dropkick and grabs the STF, wrenching aggressively on Muda's neck. The crowd chants for Muda, but Muda submits. The crowd is not happy.
01:00:27
Speaker
So I'm a bit torn on this one because purely intentional level, it's the best match so far. There's a mix of holds, they do that, the transitions really well. There's a clear story of who's going after what limbs and all these strikes.
01:00:41
Speaker
I guess my problem is I don't really get a lot from Chono. There's like no character to him at all. He's really good wrestler, I mean wrong, he's very talented, but he has no character so he's just a guy that's wrestling. Buddha has his strikes and his sort of look, little touches to his character, gave him something to work with, but Chono just kind of didn't have anything unfortunately.
01:01:04
Speaker
I don't want to feel like I'm taking a tactical match because I really like those. I don't know. I was expecting more out of this. Emotionally, I didn't connect, I guess. I didn't feel for where the story is going to be. My note was that it's substance over style until the final mix, which is obviously not the way it normally goes, but it's interesting to see that.
01:01:25
Speaker
And you can sort of gage about the crowd, honestly. There's not like a big back and forth. There's cheering for mood initially, but it definitely needs to make it a quieter overall reaction to the match than other matches we had so far, and a certain match we'll have later. Like I said, I would not say it's a bad match. It just wasn't, I didn't engage me, that's all.
01:01:47
Speaker
You know, I can see that. Chano was more reactionary, I would say, to what Muda was doing. There were some great counters and everything, but it was never an initiation on Chano's part. You know, and I don't know if that's because, you know, he got this era versus land or whatever thing that they put together. Anytime Chano went up on the ropes, hey, guess what? Muda was there to kick him off.
01:02:12
Speaker
Anytime there was a hold to be placed on anyone, it was always Jonah putting it on Muda. You know, every now and then, Muda would get out, but by and large, any of the grabs and holds were Jonah. So, and the strikes belonged to Muda. So there was, I got this feel of it was just two different, and I hate that there's any stereotyping, but it felt like two different martial arts. Like, you know, and I know that that's what they're supposed to be.
01:02:38
Speaker
No, I get it. Yeah. Yeah, sure. They've got two different fighting styles. For sure. Yeah. But Muda was the star of this match for me. Not to say anything bad about Chono. It's just, I think he was just more reactionary. He would just sit there and lie and wait until the next move. Yeah. Which I guess made it, made me feel like, oh, well, Muda's doing a lot of work and doing some powerful strikes and hits and moves. But at the same time, like it didn't, there wasn't any fires, just
01:03:08
Speaker
Yeah. I kept waiting for some sort of character thing like him getting real visibly angry or doing something and it never quite came out. Yeah, it's like the first time you actually see major emotion in this match is when he puts the STF on. True, yeah. When he starts really, really wrenching it in and I'm like, oh my gosh, that's intense. Where the heck was this for the rest of this match? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I reacted, I think exactly the same way you guys were to this.
01:03:37
Speaker
It started slow, but it was interesting. It was kind of cool to see a match that was almost entirely focused on mat wrestling and was very complex. So it was very different from what we've seen on a lot of these shows. I like the variety of holds that they used. It was rare to see them put the same hold on twice, so that also helped give variation to the counters that they used.
01:04:01
Speaker
But I said interesting, not exciting. Yeah. That's the thing. It's like you can appreciate the complexity and depth of the match and what they're doing, but it doesn't, it's just like you guys were saying, it didn't get me involved emotionally. I wasn't reacting to this. You know, I wasn't like feeling this match. It takes it a little bit to get a decent pace and there's little breaks where someone rolls out of the ring or is thrown out of the ring and that saps some of its momentum so that doesn't really help, but
01:04:29
Speaker
Yeah, I don't know. There's recognizable artistry here, and I'm not fully sure why I couldn't really get into it, but I feel like I should have liked this a lot more than I did.
01:04:41
Speaker
There are some real technical heavy matches that people are really torn on. Probably the most famous one is the, the mission only Ironman match between Chris Bimal and Kurt Angle. Yeah. That happened in like 2000, no it was 2003, 2004 maybe. It's from that time period. Some people are really torn whether that's a boring match or not. I actually really like it, but that's treated the same the same way because in that match, the story, all they're doing is go with mission holds because that's the only way you can win. Yeah. But, so I like that a lot, but the people I really, really don't like that match.
01:05:11
Speaker
I feel like if the entire match had been them putting on holds as impressively and aggressively as Chono did that final STF, I would like this a lot better. That moment is where I was like, oh my gosh, that's the potential that this match had. Literally booked this entirely the same.
01:05:29
Speaker
and just every one of those holes they really wrench on it and i think that would actually do it for me probably it's such a minor change but a little burst of intensity here and there but it was too far between yeah also when you compare it to something we actually had on Starrcade and we already had you can look at the Russians we had on Starrcade 1990 right yeah because they had really solid deep like technical wrestling collegiate wrestling thing but then they would just chuck people across the ring
01:05:58
Speaker
They have a little bit of character there they react to. Yeah, true. It's a weird match for me because I was just like, I'm watching this. I'm like, I should like this. This is technically proficient. I can tell this is really, really good like from what they're doing, but I just I couldn't couldn't get into it. I don't know. Yeah. Yeah.
01:06:21
Speaker
So as I mentioned, they have the New Japan Super Show, which is taped in January and then aired in March in the U.S. That show takes place in January 4th, 1993. You have the rematch between Masayor Chono, current Indway Champion, and Muda, current IGDP Champion. Both tiles are on the line in that match. And Muda wins. Okay. So yet again, we have the Curse of Tile Changes in January, even if it's overseas.
01:06:52
Speaker
Jesse praises Muda's ability to hold on longer in the STF than anyone who's ever seen, but Muda still had to submit. JR talks about the Rick Rude situation, and says that they're going to be holding an eight-man tournament starting on the next Saturday show to determine the number one contender for his title, and if Rude isn't able to compete by the time the tournament is over, he'll be stripped of the title to be clear Rick Rude is holding the US title at this time.
Rick Rude Promo and Character Dynamics
01:07:17
Speaker
Correct, yes.
01:07:18
Speaker
There are suddenly massive, massive boos from the crowd, and we see Rick Roode coming down to the announce table to grab a mic.
01:07:40
Speaker
On the biggest day of my life, with one stroke and a pen, a stinking doctor foils my chance at becoming World Heavyweight Champion. Now the WCW wants to twist the knife. They want to add insult to injury. The WCW is threatening to strip me of my United States title.
01:08:15
Speaker
It ain't right with the medical reason if I can't defend, they intend to strip me not only in my title, but on my number one contender position. It's funny, things didn't go down that way when Big Van Vader broke the ribs of a world champion named Sting.
01:08:38
Speaker
It's plain and it's simple. The WCW is conspiring against Ravishing Rick Roode. But what I want two people to know right now, it ain't gonna work. It ain't ever gonna work. You ain't taking my title. All right, well, Ravishing Rick Roode obviously very, very upset.
01:08:59
Speaker
I thought this was kind of making the best of a bad situation here. Rude does some really good work here to make himself sound completely ungrateful. So the crowd definitely won't take his side even when he's got legitimate complaints to make. Yes, it's sad for him that he's injured and he's losing his shot at the WCW title. And yes, it's sad that he'd possibly end up surrendering his existing belt. So it'd be easy for the crowd to actually go along with that and kind of turn him partially face.
01:09:25
Speaker
So Roode makes sure to come off as hyper-aggressive and super paranoid so that it's very clear that he is still the bad guy and should still be booed and the crowd is very willing to do just that. I thought he did a very good job with this.
01:09:39
Speaker
One for me rooted to the biggest deal on the show because he keeps saying the WCW, which drives me crazy. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That happens with a lot of the guys that have gone to the WWF at some point. Yes. Because it's the World Wrestling Federation, but then it's just world championship wrestling. It's not the world championship wrestling. Yeah. I know Luger has a few problems with that when he comes back eventually too.
01:10:04
Speaker
Yeah. He also doesn't quite know what his doctor is. Or he went to the wrong doctor and that's the issue. Yeah. Because he went to a neurosurgeon to get his neck checked out? Yeah, you know, maybe it's a nerve problem, I don't know. Maybe. I do question his doctor's ability as well since he's gone there to get the neck checked out and the doctor apparently stabbed him in the back. Yeah, it's like a spinal tap. Yeah, okay.
01:10:31
Speaker
JR, for his part, makes really, really wonderful disbelieving and sarcastic faces all throughout Rude's promo until the Cramp Camera guy finally zooms in on Rude. It's utterly hilarious. Yeah, he's right in the shot. His camera's like half focused on his face and he's just rolling his eyes and looking like, oh no, I don't believe that one.
01:10:52
Speaker
He's always got a real animated persona. Yes, yeah. He does some great reactions here. I also thought Rude looked really weird without the mustache. Sorry. I'm so used to that. That is so weird for it to be missing. It's also the same. He didn't come out with his sex jazz music. If he'd used that initial theme for the rest of his career, I think all of us would have been really happy.
01:11:15
Speaker
No, he does not look happy. You know, honestly, when they did the first boo, I thought they were just agreeing with him. I didn't think he was being a heel. I was like, yeah, that's dumb. You know, but then as the boos continued, whatever he was saying, I was like, oh, they're just not on board. Yeah. Listen to it. It's a little split when he talks about being stripped of the title though. You can hear it. It's interesting. I'm like, huh? Yeah. Maybe he just don't like the titles being stripped from people. It's possible. Yeah.
01:11:44
Speaker
As Rude leaves, Jesse says, this is politics at its worst. JR says, Jesse would
WCW World Heavyweight Championship Match
01:11:49
Speaker
know because he's a mayor and Jesse agrees. So JR gets in a really good jab saying, so you're right. Sometimes politics does stink. I don't know. Every time I hear Jesse Ventura, I keep on thinking of like Predator. Yeah. Well, I mean, I know. Yeah. Or Running Man. Yeah. Yeah.
01:12:10
Speaker
Our sixth match is Dr. Death Steve Williams versus Ron Simmons for Simmons WCW World Heavyweight Championship. Our referee for this match is Nick Patrick. Dr. Death has an amazing white robe with red flames and a skull pattern on the back. It looks absolutely cool. It's a scary looking boxer. And Simmons has a football inspired wrestling outfit with Seminoles colors and a tomahawk, referencing of course his experience at Florida State.
01:12:38
Speaker
He also has his amazing rap theme, Don't Step to Ron.
01:12:59
Speaker
I was listening to much more of this song than I should have when I was taking my notes, and it's like basically a biographical song after that. Just like where he comes from, it's time at Florida State, and all this stuff, and then occasionally it's just like, don't step to Ron. You made a mistake when you stepped to Ron. I'm like, I love it. It's absolutely wonderful. And even though he's gone, PN News' legacy endures.
01:13:24
Speaker
Dr. Death offers a handshake, and Simmons checks with the crowd if he should take it. The crowd seems okay with it, so they shake hands to applause. JR mentions that Simmons has a rotator cuff injury on his shoulder, as the two start off tentatively. Simmons works a headlock and stops a few escape attempts, and they shoulder block each other with neither moving. Simmons challenges Dr. Death to a football-style face-off, and they line up for three-point stances in charge, coming out even. Both are up for a second try, Dr. Death very enthusiastic about it.
01:13:52
Speaker
And this time, Simmons leapfrogs Dr. Death and clotheslines him down. Pretty fun spot. Simmons grabs an armbar, but Dr. Death escapes outside. Back in, Simmons tries wrist locks, and Dr. Death pulls his hair, then hits a hard forearm to the face, and Simmons is angry. Simmons seems to think that it might be a closed fist punch and complains, but Dr. Death and Patrick motion that, no, it was a forearm, which is legal. And Dr. Death makes kinda, everybody be cool here, gestures.
01:14:19
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, I don't honestly try to start Jesse Williams, but it's Nick Patrick, so I personally trust him. Yeah, absolutely. No question.
01:14:28
Speaker
So, yeah, he calms Simmons down, and then he just goes and pulls Simmons' hair again. The good times are over, and they trade huge punches and power moves. Simmons tries a hammerlock slam, but Dr. Death's arm slips free. JR covers, saying that Dr. Death pulled it free. Dr. Death dodges a diving shoulder block to take control, and abuses Simmons' leg, even slamming it on the apron. Simmons is limping, and Dr. Death keeps battering his leg and using leg locks and single-leg crabs. Anytime Simmons tries to fight back, Dr. Death just kicks him in the leg, and down he goes.
01:14:57
Speaker
Dr. Death looks smug, and deadlifts Simmons for a backbreaker. It gets two. iRake and Clothesline get another two, and Dr. Death yells at Ref Nick Patrick to count faster. Dr. Death tries a leg submission instead, but Simmons won't give in. Dr. Death hits three-point stance charges to knock Simmons' legs out from under him, but the third time Simmons clotheslines him to huge cheers. Simmons hits his awesome spinebuster. JR calls it a modified sidewalk slam. What?
01:15:25
Speaker
No. Sometimes Jared has little moments that he doesn't quite go right. It's clearly a standardized sidewalk slam. Oh, okay. Simmons hits his own three-point stance charges. On the third, Dr. Death dumps him out through the ropes. Simmons tries to drag Dr. Death out, but Dr. Death kicks him away and hits a jump kick. I was surprised by that one. Yeah. They brawl, and Dr. Death tries to run back in, but Simmons stops him just as Patrick reaches 10, so it's a double countout.
01:15:53
Speaker
The bell rings, but they keep fighting. Simmons knocks Dr. Death into the ring post and climbs back in to pose for the crowd, but Dr. Death hits him from behind and splashes him against the turnbuckle, then hits kind of a super bulldog off the top. He goes for a pin, clearly not realizing the match is over, but Mike Atkins runs down to help Patrick drag him off. Patrick changes the decision and disqualifies Dr. Death. As always, Nick Patrick judging entirely right and proper. Absolutely, yeah.
01:16:22
Speaker
I was worried going into this. I knew the Dr. Death route stuff going in. I'm thinking, this match is really made last minute. This is not going to be good. Thankfully, I was actually wrong. It was actually quite good. I guess I doubted Dr. Death, which I shouldn't do, probably.
01:16:38
Speaker
They basically had to build an entire story during the match, rather than having this built-up story that they're going for at the root for like a month and a half or so. Yeah. A couple months. His record was going for the idea that he was trying to find a weak point in Ron Simmons. And as they mentioned, the Richard Rickev injury is part of that story. Okay. He was trying to weaken him up, get around his strengths. It's kind of a shame they didn't really fall up on that part of it. Again, they kind of made their own story up for this.
01:17:02
Speaker
I'd like that they sort of slow built the them being really combative part. Dr. Death, whether he actually is nice or not is acting nice at the beginning and then sneaks his stuff in there and Ron gets more reaction to it like that. They get a little repetitive at some point because again, they built an entire match in story from scratch. So I give them a little deal with that. They also lean a little heavily on the do a move twice and the third time get countered thing.
01:17:28
Speaker
rule three yes it works in comedy and in wrestling yes and obviously you know i'll issue the finish because it's not a clean finish it's also a confusingly not clean finish because the referee just dequeues him for something after the match was over he's called the double count out but then because dr death continues just trying to beat up ron simmons he says no i'm
01:17:53
Speaker
calling it a disc golf case for you. So technically, Ron Simmons wins the match. If they ever talked about things like Fighter's Purse or something like that, that would matter. You know, the winner getting more money or something, that would matter. But since it doesn't, it's always a weird thing to see the decision switched in that particular way. The match is over.
01:18:11
Speaker
Because they're still fighting, he's being retroactively penalized. Something happened after the match. Is it bad sportsmanship? I think that's the idea. Yeah. Rummy, as you took notice, who is the ref for the Vader roads that match?
01:18:27
Speaker
That is Mike Atkins. Okay, so it's not Dick Patrick then? No. Okay. That was the thing again, based on this ruling, one of Nick Patrick would have done with that match with Vader attacking his own partner after the match. Shouldn't have been penalized somehow for that. Well, maybe you'd rule that you can't DQ them because you'd also be punishing Dustin Rhodes. He's faultless in that. Just saying rules gotta be consistent. Yeah.
01:18:52
Speaker
Being overall, the match is a lot better than that was going to be. They made something really good out of this except for the fact that there's no ending because there's no ending. Yeah. I like this match a lot actually. There's very few people that I think is more scary than Dr. Death.
01:19:11
Speaker
Like Simmons, to me, I was like, he was like, I felt, you know, even though the Dr. Death story-wise was more domineering and overpowering and everything and controlled the match, I really thought that Simmons answered in every way. If Muda and Chono, if they had even half the intensity that they had during this match, it would be such a better match back then. But back to this match.
01:19:37
Speaker
I liked the interplay that they had where they both said, let's do some football and some of the exercises and stuff to change it up. Just like to work themselves up. I know it's the heavyweight championship, but everything did have weight to it. Like it was not like Vader throwing you across the, the, um, the mat or the carrying people across. Yeah. You know what I'm talking about or staying picking up Liger and running them across. But it was one of those things where like, if they had like little animations going on.
01:20:06
Speaker
like they haven't done that yet but i know that there will be wrestling eventually when they have little emoticons doing stuff like it's a comic book they would have had like thunder and lightning crashing and stuff it was good i enjoyed it i think there was bits where like you know neither competitor was actually pulling things they were actually probably just punching
01:20:24
Speaker
Yes. Because you actually see Dr. Death sometimes just holding his hand is like, wait, wait, hold on. Just take it easy. One spot where Dr. Death pulls Simmons down by the back of his hair was especially powerful. Like he popped right back up and was in his face and I enjoyed that. This is a good match. I enjoyed it. Even though it ended indeterminately or retroactively dequeuing, I still think that my props go to Simmons. Yeah. Sure.
01:20:54
Speaker
Yeah, move-wise I thought this was fairly basic, but story-wise this was quite good.
01:20:59
Speaker
I really, really liked, like you guys were pointing out, the massive change in atmosphere over the course of the match. It starts off so friendly with the two, like, really having fun with their, they're like, we're both football guys, yay! But Dr. Death's dark side shows itself, and then the match gets really, really aggressive. It reminded me a lot of Flare versus Sting from the end of Starrcade 89. Yeah. In that regard, so. The match's central story of Simmons' leg injury worked really well.
01:21:27
Speaker
He kept trying to fight back, but Dr. Death could just sneak in and hit on the leg and down he'd go. I pretty much always loved that concept in the match, and it really, really made me want to see Simmons get back at him. Unfortunately, we kind of get there, but don't get all the way. I really enjoyed Simmons' comeback and definitely his spine buster, but the double countout finish is just really flat. I did like that they kept fighting afterwards, but it was kind of odd to see Dr. Death actually try a pin. Guess he just never heard the bell, I don't know.
01:21:56
Speaker
I'm guessing they were aiming for another match, but with the storyline of this one, I really would have liked them to just make this one story complete instead. Just give Simmons the win, and you've got a good self-contained story. As it is, really fun match, but really bad ending. Yeah. And to tell you, this is the way you sum up the ending, where they're fighting after the countout, and once Simmons attacks him, then he goes to pose. Makes him kind of look like a dick, I would say, maybe? Yeah. Because he's like, yeah, and actually, hey, you're doing this cheering. Like, yeah, I won. I won, yeah.
01:22:26
Speaker
Yeah, there's not quite enough of a break there where it seems like it's really done. It's more like Simmons clearly recognizes the match is over. And so he's like, okay, get off me and shoves him into the post and then goes into, you know, do what's expected of a champion after the match. And Dr. Death just is like, what? I never heard a bell and goes in and continues trying to win the match, I guess. And type the overly cocky guy and playing a wrestling game. Yeah. Like a super kick and then just do a full super elaborate pose. Yeah. And then it gets in the face because yeah.
01:22:58
Speaker
Overall I really enjoyed the actual match and the ending doesn't ruin it for me but I felt like you were so close to having just like a perfect self-contained story and I'm not sure why you didn't do that since you know this was a replacement match anyway you might as well.
01:23:15
Speaker
Yes, so two days later at a house show on December 30th, they have a world title match between Ron Simmons and Vader, and Vader wins. Oh. Yeah. So there's definitely no follow up to this. Yeah, that's sad that they didn't give Simmons one more win then. Incidentally, that match, they recap it on the January 1st, I believe it is, the Mississippi Saturday night, also the last one currently in network. But they technically have 1993 on there, and that they have the first show of 1993 in that day.
01:23:44
Speaker
So if you actually do want to see the match, it is on the network. We have to go to the hidden gem section, then start 1992, and then to the very end. Oh, OK. That might be a neat match to watch, because Simmons can do some really good hard hitting offense, and Vader is Vader. Yeah, absolutely.
01:24:01
Speaker
Jesse gets very peeved about the change in ruling, and we go to an ad for Super Brawl 3, a more complete ad this time. It's a bunch of action shots set to rock music, but both video and music are interrupted occasionally to show parts of the title and the date. I found the ad really, really irritating because of that. It's just like start and stop, start and stop, start and stop, and I know they think it's like highlighting it, but it's like, just do something!
01:24:26
Speaker
Yeah, let me see that. I did like the one bit where they really quickly loop a shot of Rick Roode still with his mustache. Getting booted in the face though, that was pretty funny. They should play last year's commercials, those are good. Yeah, I was gonna ask, did this one make you wish that you were watching the Super Brawl show instead, like the last couple of commercials ever? Oh, for sure. Still have that effect? I think they should just play that every time. Oh, okay.
01:24:54
Speaker
Tony and Larry Zabisco discuss the story of the tag team title match, and we see footage of Wyndham beating up Douglas in Steamboat with a chair. They got the audio turned up a little too loud on the footage, so it's kinda hard to decipher Larry's comments during that.
01:25:08
Speaker
We also get footage of a brawl on WCW Saturday night. Tony asks of the animosity that Windham and Pillman showed in their earlier match tonight might hurt their chances now. Larry says that they'll come together, they're professionals, and they know what they have to do to win. He says if there's going to be a weak link in a team, it's going to be Shane Douglas.
01:25:26
Speaker
So our seventh match is Barry Windham and fly-in Brian Pillman versus Ricky the Dragon Steamboat and Shane Douglas for Steamboat and Douglas' unified World Tag Team Championships. The referee for this match is Randy Anderson.
01:25:43
Speaker
So obviously we went over the game of the show about how the shooting thing about how they created the WCB title and then brought back the debate title. This is a little better the way they handled this because we do have two separate tag titles. I think we only choose in the era of the US tag titles after last year.
01:26:01
Speaker
But it's weird why they bother having two titles when there's only one champion for both in many ways. They had to carry two belts each. I don't quite understand that. They unified the titles under one person but not... They didn't make them just a single belt.
01:26:18
Speaker
No, you gotta carry both around. They don't melt them down at the end of the match, and then make a new belt forged. No, that probably happens next year. Like, Sting's ring. They'll win the titles tonight, and then, you know, next arcade, we'll give them the single best. At your tag titles, bro. We'd never see him put on the ring. There might only be one ring. It's entirely possible.
01:26:38
Speaker
Yeah, but another part of it is that as part of the tournament, Wyndham was mad that Dustin Rhodes, who was his partner at the time, didn't win. Basically, it was the you're not acting heelish enough thing. So he turns on Dustin, which is animosity for later in the show when they're in the Battle Bowl. Similar thing happens with Pillman. He becomes a bad guy, mad as a partner. So they're sort of unified in the hatred of other people. Oh, okay.
01:27:03
Speaker
And obviously, uh, Wyndham and Pillman have been taking very heel-ish moves to soften up Steamboat and Douglas earlier, beating up up during interviews and stuff like that, so... Oh yeah. Oddly, as they come out for the match, it's announced with a time limit of TV time remaining, which is really weird for a pay-per-view.
01:27:20
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, it's still on TV, but yeah. Yeah, it's like, what were you going to do if this went too long? You're going to not show the King of Cable match? I'd be sad about that. Are you implying that a WWE show would go off the air with uncompleted because they ran too long? Definitely not. That would never happen. Okay, good. Good, good. Such a professional company. Absolutely. Are you getting a feeling of premonition, John? Yes, but look at these flashes of synopsis at the end, just for like 10 seconds. Oh yeah, there you go.
01:27:50
Speaker
This is what happens.
01:28:03
Speaker
We are finally in the era where everyone is getting songs with actual lyrics. He's Smokin' is definitely one of the sound-alike songs. It's a little bit of Boston's Smokin' in there, but there was another song that I couldn't play, so I'm not sure what else it sounded like to me. I'm not sure if Family Man is ripping anything off. There's maybe a little bit of Funky Town in the rhythm at points, oddly enough, but the lyrics are absolutely amazing. Fame and Fortune, titles he's won, but the biggest smile is for his son.
01:28:34
Speaker
It's so wonderfully cheesy. Given that Triggy's team, I'm kind of sad at Family Man, not Dragon Man. Yeah, yeah. Or Family Dragon. Family Dragon, that's like a really weird sitcom title. Coming soon to ABC, yeah. Or in anime, most likely. Hey, you know, you have a family that lives in America and they still have ancestral gods. Yeah, there you go. There you go. And they ask him for favors. Yeah.
01:29:00
Speaker
He had the wacky, mismatched couple, except instead of being like, you know, a fat guy, he's a dragon. Yeah. Maybe they take Game of Thrones characters and they put them in a modern daysicle. Brilliant. Book it. Here's a million dollars, make it. Yes. So yeah, I'm really glad we're into the theme songs with lyrics now. They are wonderfully ridiculous.
01:29:22
Speaker
So, since they're holding unified titles at the moment, as you mentioned, Douglas and Steamboat have two belts each. Steamboat also has a black G with dragon emblazoned and green and red on the back. It looks really cool. And his tights have a dragon running along them too, which is really nice. It's a much more elaborate outfit than we've seen from him in the past. Has a lot more open character about it. Yeah, because last year it was just like white pants. Just like white pants, yeah. He's just been in very basic wrestling outfits to this point, but now it's like, oh yeah, I'm the dragon, I'm gonna tell you that.
01:29:52
Speaker
Steamboat and Douglas, have a nice little team pose worked out. Meanwhile, someone in the crowd holds up a sign. Dustin, if my groin was hurt, would you pin me? I mean, are we talking from the standpoint of a match? Or do you think that's just something Dustin Rhodes would just come over and do? I'm not sure on that. I guess you'd want to lay down if that happened to you. Yeah, yeah. Someone would maybe leave you at the pressure? Maybe, I don't know. It was a weird sign.
01:30:22
Speaker
Steamboat yells at Windham, and Douglas and Pillman start off. Rapid wrestling and strikes, and Pillman tries a crucifix takedown, but Douglas slips free for punches. Pillman gets frustrated and chokes Douglas on the ropes. The two run the ropes, and Douglas hits a drop kick to knock Pillman to the ramp. Windham runs in, but Steamboat cuts him off, and Douglas and Steamboat double drop kick Windham, then double punch him, then double back body drop him.
01:30:47
Speaker
Lots of double moves there. Windham rolls out, and Pilman goes to check on him. Back in, Windham demands the tag, then demands Steamboat, and gets both. They trade blows, and Steamboat hits a massive jumping chop and a double chop. Windham tries for a tag right away, but Steamboat drags him away and trades off with Douglas to keep Windham down. The Windham almost gets free with a mighty rotating back suplex.
01:31:10
Speaker
Steamboat knocks him outside the ring with a clothesline, then follows him out for a very safe body slam on the floor. Steamboat takes good care of him there on the hard surface. Yes. Because it is worth noting, I don't think we mentioned it, but there are no mats. Yeah, one of Watt's other changes to WCW was, you guys don't need mats on the outside of the ring. You're men. You can take it. Yeah, my day, we didn't have them. Yeah. That's how you keep those careers nice and long. Yeah.
01:31:35
Speaker
Wyndham does come up with stuff all over his back. I think it was probably Johnny B. Bad's confetti, maybe? Yes. Can't picture if it's the right side of the ring or not, but... Douglas slams him on the ramp, too, before Steamboat brings him back in. Jesse points out that they're not just trying to win, they want to hurt Wyndham for revenge. Wyndham finally escapes with a Jawbreaker on Douglas and falls backward to tag Pillman. He's perfectly executed, he doesn't even actually look. Mm-hmm.
01:32:01
Speaker
Pillman keeps control, but gets overeager and gets caught charging as Douglas vaults him onto the apron, then dropkicks him off into the barricade. Back in, Douglas goes up top, but Windham distracts him, and Pillman dropkicks Douglas off the top rope, down to the floor. Really crazy bums. Windham clotheslines him down, and Douglas gets to wear some confetti too.
01:32:20
Speaker
Douglas gets back in, but Pillman and Wyndham trade off demolishing him, distracting Ref Randy Anderson for each other to cheat. Wyndham hurls Douglas outside, and Douglas' foot catches the railing so he crashes down hard on his backhand head.
01:32:33
Speaker
Did not look fun. No. Wyndham goes out for some punches, but Steamboat has enough and races around to nail Wyndham with a chair. Jesse decries such tactics as JR tells us the ref was busy with Pillman. I was confused by that because he's distracting him from seeing the legal man fight the legal man, but I'm guessing he was probably trying to stop a countout. Yeah, fight that probably. Maybe.
01:32:57
Speaker
Windham and Pillman double team Douglas, even choking him on the ropes, but Douglas counters a Windham suplex and hits a big punch before falling back to finally tag Steamboat, and it's not quite as good as Windham's Douglas had to look. Steamboat hits both with dropkicks, double chops, and slams, but Windham stops him with a giant power slam, and Pillman and Windham take back over. Pillman uses Douglas to distract the ref, so he can throw Steamboat over the top rope, and Windham smashes Steamboat into the post.
01:33:22
Speaker
Back in, Steamboat fights back, but Pillman counters a Tilt-a-Whirl Slam into a Head Scissors in an amazing spot. It gets two. Windom into land strikes, and Steamboat keeps asking for more. Windom cuts off an initial comeback, but a hard sidekick to the face and a Bulldog turn the tide, and Steamboat gets his own falling tag to Douglas as Pillman tags Windom. Douglas runs wild on both heels with strikes and slams. Steamboat fights Windom while Douglas back-body drops Pillman, and J.R. says he went in a couple of zip codes on that one.
01:33:52
Speaker
Steamboat cross bodies Windham and himself to the ramp. Douglas hits a belly-to-belly suplex and goes for the pin, and Steamboat stops Windham just in time, catching him literally as he's diving over the ropes so that Douglas can get the pin. Steamboat and Douglas hug and do their team bows to celebrate their win. Jesse says it was a great match and it's a shame that one team had to lose.
01:34:15
Speaker
I was definitely a really solid match. Teamboat, at this point, has not been a letdown. The worst you can do with teamboat is put him in a confusing two-ring battle royale where you've got to be thrown over one rope, not the other ropes. And even then... Yeah, he still had some of the best moments in that, didn't he? Yeah, even so, yeah. Yeah, that's really the most you can handicap him, at least so far, in our experience watching these.
01:34:35
Speaker
I guess my issue was it was kind of like it was a little too long. The match was definitely longer than the previous matches. Not to say there wasn't a lot of content. It wasn't like, you know, it was two 30-minute holds or anything. There's definitely a lot going on, but there's definitely a point to where it's you're not got on the outside, you fight some more, not on the outside again. There's not a variety, I think, if you feel like, because they stretched it so far. They didn't even have those bumps yet, so I think they mentioned in commentary at some point during that match. They said the Omni is normally a hockey arena. Yes.
01:35:05
Speaker
So, they put particle board on there. They're hitting particle board over ice, apparently. Oh, that would have some give. Yeah. More than ice. Yes. So I think what's coming off on there when they roll around is the residue on particle board. Yeah, maybe. It just sort of thrown over there. And obviously, previous show at the Omni, that particle board's still there, but there's also a mat over it. Yes. So you just don't see that stuff. Hmm.
01:35:29
Speaker
Knowing wrestling the way I do in the more recent times, it's interesting seeing young babyface in peril, Shane Douglas. Yes. Basically, post-1995, I'll say, maybe 1994, he never plays that character ever again through the rest of his career. He makes a solid turn to be, I'm just a dickhead heel. Alright, we still run into today, I think, if we still wrestle.
01:35:52
Speaker
Obviously you had to start somewhere, but it's weird seeing him like that to me. Yeah, it's unexpected. This is not the visual I think of him. It's interesting seeing him do the Belly Blight Suplex. I thought he did that one actually quite well. I remember wanting to lead up to a previous show, which he apparently didn't make the cut for, the year after Magnum TA has retired.
01:36:11
Speaker
And then they got a point that he had trained in a magnatee and he's in the suplex in his honor. Did they mention magnatee at all? Yeah, they meant someone says magnatee would have been proud of that suplex. There we go, okay. Did they mention that or not? The demo is interesting because basically the heels make the faces basically steamboat. So mad that he wouldn't do things he wouldn't normally do. It's interesting, but I don't know, it wasn't my favorite story they could done with that.
01:36:37
Speaker
The match had a lot of things going. Yes. If we channeled the camera work of previous store gates and put it into the story line of this match.
01:36:49
Speaker
Because there was all the commentary about, oh, the ref was distracted or whatever. Forget the ref, I was distracted because there wasn't a point where something wasn't going on or the non-legal man was moving around the outside getting ready to do the next thing. More than a handful of times, all four were in the ring. There's a segment in the very beginning where it's literally like five moves, double team. Which looked cool, don't get me wrong, but it was just,
01:37:17
Speaker
It was a nice change up from some of the other matches of the night. It's very unique compared to all the matches of the night, but I could not follow it. I was just... Each person I think had a moment to shine, I think, which was nice. Although in the very beginning, there's one drop kick where it clearly doesn't connect and one of the people just jump out that side. It was like at least a foot away from actually connecting, which I thought was hilarious.
01:37:44
Speaker
It's literally like maybe 25 seconds in or something like that. Yeah. Steamboat, I really enjoyed when he did two versus one where he was just chopping them down and then doing power slams. That's not what I really associate Steamboat with. I want to see him run along the ropes. I want to see him do some flying over people. Sure. Yeah.
01:38:04
Speaker
but I still enjoyed it. There were some really solid moves. They had two matches going at 1.1 battling it out on the ramp and the other teammates are on the inside. It was all over the place, a lot of intensity. I enjoyed it, but I'm not even certain what happened.
01:38:21
Speaker
Yeah, you said, like, taking the camera work and putting it in the match. The moment you said that, I was like, I know exactly what that means. Yeah. It's like, yeah. Yep. That's a perfect description of it. I loved this one. Absolutely love this one. Like you were saying, John, everyone gets a chance to shine in it. I thought it all blended together for my purposes into a really excellent match.
01:38:42
Speaker
Douglas surprised the heck out of me, doing a great job as face imperil for much of the match. He gets in little spots of hope, but he's otherwise just beaten around the ring and quite viciously. It still never feels one-sided in the way that the Liger stuff does earlier. He just always felt like he was a heartbeat away from getting pinned, but also a heartbeat away from making the tag.
01:39:03
Speaker
There's a really great intensity to the match, and you can feel Douglas and Steamboat's need to get even with Windom in particular. They fight Pillman, but they fight Windom way harder. Yeah, I can say that. Yeah. I really enjoyed Windom's performance here. He looked tough and brutal, but also had some amazing moments like that tag where he doesn't even look. It's like he knows exactly where he is at all times. It's really, really good there.
01:39:29
Speaker
Everybody tried to imitate that moment, but nobody did it quite as well. Steamboat had all the precision and grace that we expect of him, but a lot of character here too, really showing his anger and frustration in a way that I don't remember seeing from him before. It was pretty neat. Absolutely perfect time on the ending. Windom and Steamboat play it just right, so it's absolutely clear that Windom would have made it just in time to stop the pin, if not for a last second lunge by Steamboat. They could not have done that any better there.
01:39:56
Speaker
The one complaint that I've got is that nothing much seems to come of the earlier night storyline of Wyndham and Pillman having tension between them. That's true. That seems a little wasted, but the match itself is absolutely brilliant. And it's the fifth tag match I'm watching on this show too, and I love it, so that should tell you how good I thought it was. Yeah.
01:40:16
Speaker
I was trying to think what, when I was talking about how there was so much going on to try to track, like what did they remind me of? And it reminded me, there's an episode of Futurama where Zoidberg goes to Hollywood and his uncle makes a movie. The uncle keeps adding stuff to the movie and he thinks none of that's happening. Harold Zoid. Thank you, yes, Harold Zoid. They show a bit where like, people were talking in the front of the camera, in the background, people were running back and forth throwing pies at each other. The background is super distracting.
01:40:46
Speaker
That's my best comparison for, yeah, for that. I just didn't have the words to describe the amount of action that was happening. Yeah. Oh, I get it, yeah. Timon Douglas would hold the title for a little while. They'd lose him around March, I believe. What's notable is that they don't lose them on pay-per-view, and they lose them on Saturday night. They lose them on WSW Power Hour.
01:41:10
Speaker
And not in January, so that's important. No, they made it past January. Okay, good. The only champion so far to make it past there, yeah, on this show anyways. This is also the last Starrcade where we have the unified belts, by the way. They are un-unified, which I guess is a word. Divided. That's far too sensible of a word, John. Yeah, un-unified is much better. But yeah, it's the last time they appear and it's the last time we will see them going forward in Starrcade at all in those debut. They never revert back to having individual tag titles.
01:41:40
Speaker
Yeah, I'm sad to hear that they were de-unificated. And in fact, I'd look it up. After they are separated, the NWA tag titles are vacant until 1995. Wow. Two years go by and they're like, oh yeah, we don't have tag champions. Let's do a tournament.
01:41:57
Speaker
Well, they have a lot of tag matches, so it's probably like good that they're not doing that on a regular basis. Yeah. I do have another note. It's separate from this last match, but after another pass, the title matches are worth noting. Okay. Battle Bowl, fully random drawing with the exception of Sting. If you'd noticed though, every challenger for a title is in Battle Bowl, but no champions are in Battle Bowl.
01:42:22
Speaker
Good point, yeah. What are the odds? Yeah, interesting. Tano's not in there, Steamboat and Douglas aren't in Battle Bowl, and Ron Simmons is in Battle Bowl. Yeah, true, yeah. Every challenger is in Battle Bowl. Hmm, why is this weird? Well, just because it's a random drawing, supposedly. Wink, wink, nudge, nudge. Yeah, just so happens that that didn't happen.
01:42:44
Speaker
And it would be less notable if, say, Buddha wasn't in Battle Bowl, and there'd be one person to break the streak. Yeah. Or if Pillman wasn't, but Wyndham was. Yeah. But no, every single challenger for a title is in Battle Bowl, too. Yeah, so the challengers have a real disadvantage there. Yeah. Yeah. Pretty much. Though to be clear, we mean the Lethal Lottery, not Battle Bowl itself, since Pillman didn't make it to Battle Bowl. So yeah, Jesse says that Magnum TA would have been proud of Douglas's belly-to-belly suplex. There you go.
01:43:12
Speaker
JR goes over the history between Big Van Vader and Sting, including Vader splashing Sting and Sting hitting Vader with a giant plank of wood hard enough to snap it in two. Jesse points out that Vader also took the world title from Sting earlier this year. That's true.
01:43:27
Speaker
So we're at the King of Cable tournament final now. The King of Cable tournament was announced to celebrate 20 years of WCW slash JCP being on cable. So to celebrate the 20th anniversary, they had more wrestling matches, which I guess that's how you celebrate wrestling anniversaries, wrestling matches and all. Yeah. Yeah.
01:43:47
Speaker
Not knowing this, I was expecting one of those specialty like strap match or they're actually tied together by a cable. Oh, that oh, that would have made sense. Yeah, I got I get you. But that's OK. Yeah. Were you relieved when that wasn't the case? No, no. You still have a little bit of hope that when they do that, it's more like Roddy Piper's. Yes, something has to replace that.
01:44:08
Speaker
I could see, I could see that doing done now with like a 30 foot long HDMI cable wrapped around that together. Gold plated. Yeah, of course. Yeah. So last longer. Yeah. Yeah.
01:44:20
Speaker
The King of Cable was an eight-man tournament, all leading up to this final match. We had Vader besting Tony Atlas, Dustin Rhodes besting the Barbarian, Rick Roode besting Barry Windham, and Sting besting Brian Pillman. In semi-finals, Vader beat Dustin Rhodes and Sting beat Rick Roode. Now it's time for the final match to determine the King of Cable.
01:44:43
Speaker
So the last of the matches before Battle Ball tonight is Big Van Vader with Harley Race versus Sting for the King of Cable trophy. The referee is Mike Atkins. As he enters, Vader is oddly enough wearing a bandana over his mask if it's a really odd look. As he comes down the ramp, Vader shouts out, it's time to go to war! And he gets in the ring and tries to just go ahead and claim the trophy. Confidence, I guess? I mean, why wouldn't you? Yeah.
01:45:12
Speaker
Sting walks out and he looks apprehensive. It's very sedate for Sting. No big energy in calling to the crowd or anything. He's just looking at the ring clear he knows what he's about to get into. Sadly, while we're in the lyrical theme songs era, we don't yet have the awesome man-called Sting song. But soon. Soon. Jesse pokes fun at Vader's muscle pose. He says, not a lot of definition, but plenty of mass. I hope Vader didn't hear him for his sake.
01:45:41
Speaker
Vader does his Vader sign at Sting, and Sting just stares him down. JR says that Sting's strategy is to survive until Vader tires himself out, but that's easier said than done. Jesse says Vader will try to get Sting angry so he gets careless and Vader can take him out.
01:45:57
Speaker
Vader just ignores Sting's punches and yells, no pain, no pain! Vader tosses Sting around, but takes his time and poses. Sting charges, and Vader takes him down with double forearms, the military presses him, and drops him on the top rope. Twice. Sting rolls out, and Jesse suggests that Sting's just, you know, take a countout so he can come back and win Battle Ball. Sometimes it's smart to be a quitter, he says. Such an inspiration.
01:46:23
Speaker
Yeah, it turns out he was a Navy SEAL, I guess. I assume that wasn't his mindset back then. No, probably not. I would hope. Back in, Sting dodges clotheslines and knocks Vader down with a cool forward flip kick. Race looks stunned. Sting hits an enzigiri and a picture-perfect German suplex, just beautiful. A clothesline spills them outside, and Vader loses his mask, sucking wind. Race checks on Vader, so Sting dives over the top rope to hit both, and the crowd loses their minds at that. But Vader gets right back up.
01:46:54
Speaker
Poor Harley, the race keeps getting beat up. I'm retired guys, not doing that. I really like Sting's stinger call and when he's beating his chest after that move too. Yes, yeah, that was great. It was, yeah. Back in, forearm strikes literally knock the paint off of Sting. They do. Sting dodges a splash, but Vader boots him right in the face on his own stinger splash. In midair. Yeah.
01:47:18
Speaker
Sting manages a DDT and a super DDT off the top rope, and that gets two and a half. Sting gets the scorpion deathlock, but Vader makes the ropes. Vader scoots outside, leans on the barricade, and Sting comes in for a stinger splash, but Vader dodges and Sting eats barricade.
01:47:35
Speaker
Vader goes back in, since he can win this quote-unquote title by countout, but Sting comes back in, and Vader beats the hell out of him. Oh yeah. Clothesline splashes, punches, a great stalling back suplex, and a splash gets two, and Vader swears. A seated abdominal stretch into a clothesline gets two, so Vader tries another clothesline, but Sting catches his arm and swings around to lever him over in a backslide for two. Really nice and smooth there.
01:48:00
Speaker
A sunset flip nearly gets Sting killed, as Vader leaps up and tries to sit down on him, but Sting dodges. Vader knocks Sting reeling with punches, but Sting lands a back suplex, but he's so exhausted that Vader is up first. That's just gotta be plain depressing, Jesse says. Vader even gets a two count off of it. Yeah, that was pretty good.
01:48:23
Speaker
Vader gets Sting in the corner and smashes him with forearm blows. Sting tries to protect himself, but Vader just smacks his arms aside on the way to his head. Vader pummels Sting and he stumbles around the ring just trying to keep any kind of guard up. At last, Vader hefts Sting to the top turnbuckle and climbs up, but takes too long, and Sting lands a thumb to his eye and punches to knock Vader down. Sting slumps down and Vader is again up first. Vader keeps landing forearms, but he's tiring.
01:48:50
Speaker
Sting yells, come on, and Vader obliges, but Sting is able to stand up to the strikes more and more, just enough that he can fight. Sting lands big haymakers to get Vader reeling and knocks him flat, then hefts Vader on his shoulders for a Samoan drop. A huge jumping splash off the top gets two, but Race distracts Sting for Vader to nail a forearm and choke slam, then splashes Sting so hard that he bounces off and rolls away. Vader goes up top, and Sting crawls to his knees.
01:49:20
Speaker
Vader jumps and Sting catches him with a power slam and gets the pin. The crowd has one of the loudest pops that I have ever heard. Oh yeah, for sure. Vader, shocked, gets to his feet. Sting has to be helped up by the ref and slumps in the corner.
01:49:38
Speaker
House is really, really good. Vader has the complete package here because he is the domineering, really powerful jerk of a character, essentially. Even Little Thing are trying to take the trophy before the match started. It's really great to interact with him and Sting like the bit when Sting is challenging him to strike him more. And Sting's reaction is to put his arms up because he knows he is going to hit him again.
01:50:01
Speaker
It's really nice. That's a little stuff in there. It's impressive. That Flash Vader actually hits, but comes off of him. Remind me weirdly enough of when Rod Van Damme doing the Frog Splash. Yeah. Not a comparison you'd expect to be making, right? No, not at all. Yeah, because if Van Damme's Frog Splash, he would hit it and like hop up and like basically splash the empty mat next to them. It's not quite that impressive because, you know, it is Vader, to be fair, but.
01:50:25
Speaker
Even then, you can see he's really mad at himself because he splashed and rolled off because he wanted to splash him to stay there. Yeah. The announcers even mentioned, oh, he wanted to, he clearly wanted to stay there, but I think it's JR says that's twice he's done that move on someone and that hasn't gone quite right tonight. Yeah. Yeah.
01:50:43
Speaker
The most telling thing for me, if you look back and watch it, is how much they're working on this show, especially just in this match. Sting clearly has some of his hair gel still active when the match starts. By the end, his hair is wet. Yes. You would have thought he would just went swimming. He sweat through all his hair gels. Amazing to think about in a time period.
01:51:04
Speaker
The little stuff with Vader pops up is really neat, because Vader does still sell the injury, and it makes it clear that Sting can still round. They work so many little things in there, like when he does someone drop, we notice they fall where Vader's foot is already on the rope, so he can't even try to pin him. Yeah. Because they could have not done that, and he tries to pin him and kicks out, but they made a point of having he can't even try to pin him. Yeah. So he can really sell that he is actually hurting Vader there.
01:51:31
Speaker
Mm-hmm. The finish is really nice, too. It does feel like he's cocky and trying to go for one last big move and is countered in mid move and his pin, but clearly Sting suffers a worth for the match. Yeah. It's really good. What a crazy match.
01:51:49
Speaker
You know, you know, I love Sting. I would say that by the end of this match, I think I care a lot more about Vader. He's been in other matches tonight and has done a lot of great things. And I was curious how the interaction would be between Sting and Vader because they are two different things entirely.
01:52:07
Speaker
It is really impressive when Sting picks him up, especially as winded as he is later on and carries him on his back. And you know some of those things like Vader's jumping a little bit. Oh, yeah, absolutely. But even so, there was a lot of over the rope clothes lines and jumps. They would have disqualified each other like many times over.
01:52:26
Speaker
There's one spot where I think it's like three quarters of the way through. Sting does this triple, like he coils and does a spin and punches Vader, like one, two, three, which I thought stood out to me for the match because, you know, it, I don't know, it's just not something you see a lot of. The crowd was very reactive to it. It felt powerful when Vader went down. Yes. It was a turning point for him after being tossed around like a rag doll for so long.
01:52:54
Speaker
There's also another point when I don't know the name of the submission move, but Vader has Sting locked up and has one arm behind him and one around his neck, and then he just grabs his face and torques it. Yeah. Oh, God. Yeah. It looks so bad. I was like, man, you can fake stuff, but it looked like it was very painful. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Great match. I was not expecting the power slam at the end, but it was a pleasant surprise.
01:53:19
Speaker
Yeah, this was one of the best matches that I have ever seen. And one of the finest matches, I think, for both men.
01:53:28
Speaker
Both brought their absolute best here. Even more amazing considering they both had a match before this and they're both gonna be in Battle Ball as well. But they held absolutely nothing back. Sting pulled out moves I have never seen from him in matches before or since. Just laying everything out here. Big spots, big hits, great variety. I could feel the desperation in Sting's performance. Even when he had an advantage, it felt fleeting. Vader could just stand up from anything. He's an unstoppable monster.
01:53:56
Speaker
Vader was unmatched in brutality, and Sting sold it like an absolute champ. Watching him just stumble around the ring trying to keep his guard up but unable to stop the blows from landing, I was on the edge of my seat. The transition to Vader punching himself out was gradual and subtle. It didn't feel like a Superman comeback. Sting could just finally stay up just well enough to fight back. So it was a really carefully crafted match story here, and I thought it came off perfectly.
01:54:26
Speaker
Both guys came out looking great. Sting's strategy works, even if it looks dicey for a while, and he beats Vader with a plan rather than being able to overwhelm him with power or speed. If you're a wrestling fan, you owe it to yourself to see this match. Absolutely brilliant.
01:54:42
Speaker
We're talking in the previous Sting match in the Battle Bowl about how we were disappointed there wasn't enough Liger stuff. That sort of flipping kick thing that Sting does, that's a Liger kick. Yeah, exactly. That's Liger's move. Yeah. And he does it well. No, yeah, he does, actually. Jumping is his foretake, clearly. Yes. I like that at some point there's some foreshadowing from JR. He's talking about rope-a-dope. That Sting is just trying to endure. He's just nodding his head, taking the punches.
01:55:08
Speaker
If they lay out what the match's storyline is going to be at the start. JR talks about what Sting's strategy is going to be, Jesse says what Vader's is going to be, and you clearly see that story going through this match. It's one of the most solid combinations of everything from the wrestlers to the announcers. It combines, I think, perfectly.
01:55:28
Speaker
This is an absolutely exceptional match and one of the best matches I have ever seen. I'm not just talking about matches I've watched for the show here. Out of all the matches I've seen, this is among the best. Nice.
01:55:40
Speaker
Even if Sting wasn't a really good babyface, which obviously he is and was, Vader makes that work so well. You could take someone who's not as good at that sort of character stuff. She managed to copy them out to exactly the same, which I know is tricky. But if you remember, Vader's party in a way the same way.
01:55:58
Speaker
And you had someone who I've talked before, like Terry Taylor, for instance, who's a very good wrestler, just doesn't have that sort of extra character thing. I feel like if he was in the same situation, you'd be like, man, Terry Taylor is really fighting for his life out there. Yeah. Really connect to that story. True. Yeah. Yeah. Thinks that both sides of that. When Vader lifts them up and drops them the rope the first time. Oh God. That will control a bit painful. The second time, he almost looked like he was trying to throw them out of the ring. And Thinks sort of puts his hands down to stop himself.
01:56:27
Speaker
I don't know how much that was accidentally worked, but it worked. Yeah, I don't know. Yeah, just super just amazing match.
01:56:34
Speaker
I do love that. Sting swets through all his hair gel, and of course the match. It's a great visual. He looks battered and exhausted by the end of it, and that's totally legit. Absolutely. I really like what happens afterwards. I don't know if that's what we're getting to, but when Ventura comes out and the first thing Sting says, he compliments Vader. He's like, I took a beating. Yes.
01:56:59
Speaker
Vader and Sting's feud would reignite at their most infamously promoted match at Super Bowl. Yes. Which we'll get to in a Super Bowl. Oh yeah. In fact, that really sums up Vader's 1993 career as a whole. Badly promoted, but really good matches. Yep. One of those can get to the actual shows, though. Yeah. Jesse comes to the ring to present the King of Cable trophy to Sting. What a contest!
01:57:25
Speaker
and Vader hammering each other. Let's go up for the presentation of the trophy with Jesse The Body Ventura. I'll tell you what, Stinger, I was a doubter. I didn't think it could be done. I didn't think you could win the King of Cable against that monster big fan, Vader. But I stand corrected. That was one hell of a match and one hell of a victory. Congratulations.
01:57:52
Speaker
Well, it was Jesse, but it was also one hell of a butt kicking that I took. I'll have you know. Well, you earned that trophy. Thank you very much. I just have one thing to say. One left. One thing left tonight. And that's Battle Ball to make it a complete night, two years in a row.
01:58:12
Speaker
Unbelievable, if he can come back and win that trophy, and win Battle Ball, that'll be a feat beyond belief. Let's go to my colleagues now, Tony Shabani, and Larry the Treacher Zabisco.
01:58:26
Speaker
Yeah, like you said, Jon, Sting does a terrific job there of still selling the match. He sounds completely exhausted, and like I said, the first thing he does is say, that was one hell of a butt kicking, you know? He wants to make sure that people know Vader was the toughest opponent that he's faced, basically. That's absolutely amazing.
01:58:53
Speaker
quiet promo, but totally acknowledges the brutality of what he just went through and it feels real to me. Sing is glad to have won, but he's just trying to have something, anything left for battle bowl. I feel like that helps Vader's rep even more. Sting won, but he's not growing about his victory. He's saying what a beating Vader gave him. That's where his mind is. He can't get past the brutality there. So it's a level of brutality that even a hero can't just leave behind him.
01:59:19
Speaker
I like it because it builds up both characters, you know, at the same time. Yeah, it's terrific. It's also nice after a previous show to get a complete ding promo. Yes! He actually gets to talk! Yeah, right?
01:59:34
Speaker
It's neat when a wrestler manages to get so much across in such a short time because he doesn't talk for long there. What it reminded me of most actually in promo style was that very first Starrcade where Ric Flair wins the title. And then has that just like exhausted, thankful promo where he talks to the crowd and everything. And it's like those moments where it really feels genuine. So it was very cool to hear that.
02:00:00
Speaker
You know, scorpions glow blue in UV light. Do they? Yeah. Oh, good. That's what I thought of when I saw Sting's face paint in the beginning. He's in UV light. So that sure was a great end to the show, right? Let's talk about the overall show. Sorry, Bob. All right. I know we still have to do Battle Ball. Sorry. Yeah, we do. KFC Battle Ball.
02:00:29
Speaker
Sting leaves with the trophy and we go to Larry and Tony. Tony says that Sting has to come right back now to compete again and Larry sells the brutality of the match and says he can't believe that they're coming back for more. Larry says that many things will leave you, looks, money, women, usually what the money does, but that ring is going to be something that you can keep for your life.
02:00:50
Speaker
And we see the ring animation again, and Tony says that we're seeing the ring made, which I guess is kind of right, but that makes it sound like we're watching the real thing, not computer animation.
02:01:01
Speaker
We get a video of an interview that Tony did with NFL Hall of Famer Paul Hornig, who shows us his Super Bowl ring. Hornig says,
02:01:24
Speaker
It was a kind of weird thing to talk to someone from a completely different sport, but I kind of thought it worked okay for building up the concept of the ring. Yeah. It's weird as hard late sell on how boring the ring is, but yeah, I get what they're going for. Yeah, I'm not sure that they needed it after already mentioning the ring at the beginning of the show, but I don't know, it kind of worked okay. They got to use the animation twice. Yes. And that's how you cast a ring, sort of.
02:01:54
Speaker
I guess they could have brought Hank, Aaron, and Lickle back out there to present the ring and then wait till the match is over. That could be better. Yeah, there you go. Could have guest-draft. Those always work out. Yeah, those always work out. Absolutely. So now it's time for Battle Bowl. Now, this Battle Bowl has different rules. We have one ring rather than two, and it's single elimination. You get thrown over the top rope and land on the floor, and you're out. It's much simpler.
02:02:22
Speaker
This is our first interaction with Dustin Rhodes and Barry Wyndham. I found their split. The reason why Dustin is wearing cast engine layers, he was beaten up by Wyndham. Oh, right, okay. Not that it affected him much. He seemed to wrestle just fine with the cast on, but... Yeah. For this to be important. The Starrcade music starts up again as the participants come down. So we have Dangerous Dan Spivey, The Natural Dustin Rhodes, The Great Muda, who's reapplied his face paint,
02:02:51
Speaker
Barry Windham, Dr. Death, Steve Williams, Heavy Metal Van Hammer, who has foregone the cowboy hat this time, Big Van Vader, who's put his mask back on with Harley Race, and Sting, who has not reapplied his face paint because he's had like, I don't know, a grant a little 30 seconds backstage, and is soaking wet still. You know, it just bleeds off of him, honestly. Yeah. Sting very understandably still looks absolutely exhausted. Yeah.
02:03:20
Speaker
Vader tackles Sting on the ramp right away, and Refs. Patrick and Atkins try to separate the two. Inside, we get Spivey trying to dump Muta, Dr. Death trying to dump Hammer, and Windham beating up Rhodes. Sting gets free and gets in, but Vader dives over the top rope to land right on top of him.
02:03:38
Speaker
We briefly get picture in picture again, and it's just as useless as last year. Vader teams up with Windom against Sting. Spivey tries to dump Muda, but Van Hammer saves for some reason. He's not very bright. Yeah. Muda saves Rhodes from Dr. Death and Windom, and Rhodes beats up Windom and lands a heck of a clothesline. Muda saves Sting from Spivey and Windom, and saves Sting from Spivey again moments later. Jesse says that Muda's being a little ridiculous here.
02:04:03
Speaker
Vader chokes Rhodes and batters him with forearms. Rhodes tries to come back with a tackle and Vader just absorbs it and Rhodes falls down. Spivey finally dumps Sting out, but Sting holds on and rolls in to jump-kick Spivey in the face. Rhodes headbutts Vader, and Vader doesn't react and Rhodes falls down again instead. Pretty great spot there. Sting puts a sleeper on Vader, and Jesse says everyone should really just team up and take Vader out. Van Hammer is first out, courtesy of Dr. Death.
02:04:32
Speaker
Rhodes and Wyndham go through the middle rope to the ramp, and Rhodes bulldogs Wyndham on there with a great thud. Later, Sting tosses Spivey over the top rope onto the ramp. There's some confusion, but Atkins rules so that Spivey is out, and sends him to the back. I guess there's a question of whether the ramp counts as the floor.
02:04:50
Speaker
Because, I mean, yeah, it's literally not the floor, so yeah. And last year being thrown out onto the ramp didn't count, although that was because the only thing that counted at that point was being thrown into the other ring, so I can understand the confusion there. Yeah, I guess. Dr. Death stomps on Sting, and JR points out that they were partners earlier in the night. Sting repays Muda by saving him from Vader with a stinger splash. Had to feel good to finally get to hit that on Vader after missing her to get encountered multiple times.
02:05:19
Speaker
Vader slugs Sting to get him reeling against the ropes, then hits a crossbody that sends both him and Sting out onto the ramp. Again, there's some confusion, but the rule is eliminated. Rhodes chokes Wyndham on the ropes. Well, Dr. Death does the same to Muda in an interesting stereo moment. Rhodes and Wyndham have quite a brawl, and Wyndham bleeds from the nose after a hard shot, so Rhodes kicks him in the face.
02:05:41
Speaker
Windham gets a DDT and a slam, then climbs up top, for Rhodes throws him down. Jesse questions why he didn't just throw Windham out, and JR says that he wants to punish Windham more for stabbing him in the back when they were friends. Spare Windham also a neurosurgeon then? Yeah, it's the same guy. Oh, okay.
02:05:58
Speaker
Jesse says he should keep it business, not personal, if he wants to win. Rhodes gets his own DDT on Wyndham. Rhodes gets Wyndham on the ropes, but Dr. Death charges up and clotheslines Rhodes out, but falls out himself as well. So our final two are Wyndham and Muda. It's kind of a weird final combo out of all the combinations tonight. Yeah, it is.
02:06:18
Speaker
The crowd chants for Muda, and Windham challenges him to a test of strength, then sucker punches him. Windham gets a suplex and a float over, but lands punches where he'd normally try a pin. I thought that was a nice way to still use that move, since pins don't count. Windham gets a suplex and a surprisingly nice dropkick again, and Windham tosses Muda over the top. But Muda skins the cat back in, dropkicks Windham to stun him, and dropkicks him again to send him out. So Muda wins the battle bowl.
02:06:46
Speaker
Fireworks go off and Muda look kind of startled by him, but he celebrates and bows to the crowd. So yeah, this is definitely a lot easier to follow. Obviously there is nearly one-third of the amount of competitors it was last year. Yes. 50% less ring than last year. 100% less bear hug. That's true. Point, yes. You didn't have to remind you of it, like two-minute long bear hug in Battle Bowl.
02:07:11
Speaker
So yeah, it's definitely an improvement. It's clear that this show in general is Battle Bull is a feature, but it's not the sole thing. Even though it's still called Darkening 2 Battle Bull, it's definitely less of a focus. But to be fair, it is half the show, but it's only half the show, not the entire show. What was kind of funny, if you look at it, is Vader enters the ring, charging and diving with a top rope. And he exits the ring, diving and charging with a top rope.
02:07:39
Speaker
point is a true consistency. Yeah. It's our real life thing going on there. Yeah. That reached my main point, which is that they shouldn't have had the sting Vader elimination that early. I felt like they did that too quickly. It seemed to really pull the crowd out of the match because they were really hyped for
02:07:56
Speaker
sting and maybe just an instant for Vader having seen him do so well in these matches after that last match. So once they're gone, it's nothing against Dr. Death, Wyndham, Muda, and Rhodes, but there's a noticeable drop-off and things to turn out the fans feel.
02:08:12
Speaker
without those two in there. I think you're absolutely right. I think because they had a start on the catwalk, you know, that kind of set the tone. Yeah. Because that's the very first thing you see. But yeah, that's the problem with the pacing of that. Is it the crowd to pull out of the mat, but there's still like five minutes of mat left.
02:08:28
Speaker
A couple little things in there like if you watch Buddha doesn't do the full drop down the ropes. Yeah, they're halfway up. So he drops down further just so he can just skin the cat back in, which looks a little awkward. He drops a feet closer to being eliminated so they can not be eliminated. Yeah. That's a little weird. And it's kind of weird that Wyndham has this big comeback of doing the big moves and moves come back is drop kick him twice. Yeah. Like, Oh, okay.
02:08:54
Speaker
Thought at least one of them would be his spin kick or something. Yeah, something. I mean, obviously you can't work in the moonsault into the finish. Couldn't really do the elbow, but he kind of missed or something interesting. I guess he's a phase he's not even missed anymore, I guess. Yeah, probably. Though apparently he is because someone wanted to spray on their sign, but I don't know. Yeah. I was really hoping they would do a full arc with Nuda.
02:09:17
Speaker
Because in the clips they show before the world title match with him and Chono, you see Kijimudo, his non face paint persona. So I was kind of hoping, going through Battle Bowl and some of his face paint off, going with the match getting basically almost all of it warped off by face rubbing and slams and such. I was hoping he'd come out for Battle Bowl as Kijimudo, since face paint was already gone anyways. I was hoping that would be the case, but they did not. That would have been a nice twist. Right?
02:09:46
Speaker
Okay. This was a lot better than the last battle bowl in the sense that, yeah, there wasn't 20 people and there was a lot less bear hugs. But I was surprised to see it start out the way it did with Sting and Vader doing a continuance. I felt that maybe Vader was just a little bit heartbroken from losing the cable match. This is what happened. Absolutely, yeah.
02:10:09
Speaker
A lot of great moves. I wasn't expecting Wyndham to be one of the final people. Yeah. But he's done a lot of great stuff tonight. So, you know, I'm glad he was still there. Sting and Vader, I was for certain they would be in the last four, but that wasn't the case. It was nice to see other people fighting at the end. It means a little bit more when you don't have all the big names there. Not that anyone's a small name, but you know, like they've had some big matches recently.
02:10:35
Speaker
I'm glad Muda won. The skinning of the cat at the very end was a little weird, but I honestly think that it was probably so he could get the torque to actually, you know, pull himself up. Oh, yeah. No, I get it from just the exam point. It's just funny that he dropped further down when the risk is being supposed to the third floor. Yeah, I feel like what happens is like he messes up the initial toss a little bit and accidentally lands on the apron. And so that's why he has to do the slip down. But yeah, if he thought fast enough, he probably would have just rolled under the ropes or something instead.
02:11:05
Speaker
way better than last year. Only eight men, simpler rules, much easier to follow. It also helped that there were some very clear storylines between some of the men. So Sting spends a lot of time fighting Vader, Rhodes spends a lot of time fighting Wyndham. It gave the match a much better sense of story than last year's. Last year felt more like a bunch of people randomly brawling.
02:11:26
Speaker
That said, there are some confusing elements. I'm not sure why we get so many bits with people saving other people from elimination. I guess Muda especially does a lot, so I guess he's just a nice guy. The lack of clarity about the ramp really hurts the match. The crowd is very confused if Spivey's eliminated, and it also doesn't react much when Sting and Vader go out.
02:11:46
Speaker
I think they were expecting that to be this massive surprised reaction when the last year's winner Sting is eliminated. Yeah. But they don't get it. Even though they've been building to that all night, they don't get it because people just don't actually seem immediately clear that Sting is in fact out of the match. Yeah. So it's a real shame. I also felt like it took a little bit too long to get to the first elimination. The match overall wasn't that long though. It's shorter than any of the last three matches. It's true, yeah. I blame Muda.
02:12:16
Speaker
Point, yeah, he was saving everybody, wasn't he? So it's his fault. Overall, though, it's a decent enough watch and had a few cool spots that made it worth my time. Just they needed to be really clear from the beginning that it's the floor or the ramp eliminates you. And I think they would have gotten a big reaction there. Yeah. Because the crowd would immediately know that that had happened.
02:12:36
Speaker
It could have been even cooler if they said the ramp was still in and then Sting and Vader push each off and they both fall off the ramp. Yeah, if you actually did it as they are still in and Sting could have gotten back in and then they knock each other off or something like that. Yeah, that would have been cool. I can definitely see that. Or even two people on the ring whip them into knock them out. Yeah. Still major improvement over the previous battle bowl.
02:13:02
Speaker
So yeah, as I mentioned before, Budo would win the Indebay title literally a week after this show in Japan. That would lead to him going to the very next show, Superball 3, the one they heavily promoted here, defending his Indebay title against the man he eliminated from Battle Ball, Barry Windham. Hmm.
02:13:19
Speaker
So like last year, there is direct continuity at least in the two finalists, which is nice. Yeah, true. Yeah, that's a good point. Buda is not here for any of the later attempts at reviving Battle Ball. So I guess he doesn't care about defending his quote unquote championship. Yeah, true. And they don't mention the Battle Ball ring really at all, at least in Buda for sure, or Sting for all they can tell. That super important thing is I guess not a lot important.
02:13:45
Speaker
JR and Jesse discuss Muda's achievement and the endurance of Muda and everyone else in the match for fighting multiple matches tonight. They build up the STF again as an incredibly painful move to be able to take Muda down in that earlier match. They discuss the Rude situation, and Jesse says that was a disgrace. JR rolls his eyes and points out that Rude didn't even defend his US title since November, even before the injury. Jesse brushes that off and sympathizes with Rude. JR promotes Superball 3, and we're out.
02:14:15
Speaker
So when are they handing the ring to Muda? Next battle bowl, I guess. Yeah. I'm pretty sure Sting has to pass it to him. Oh, okay. He does it backstage. There's one ring. Yeah. I think when kids pull their tickets to get a prize, they split it back and forth. Yeah. They could have a giant claw machine show up. That would be great. That would be funny. Yeah. All right, guys. Overall thoughts on Starrcade 1992.
02:14:43
Speaker
As a whole, it's definitely a stronger show. There's more variety in there. There's not just, here's all these tag matches in this whatever the hell Battle Ball originally was. Because it's a double elimination, double ring, rumble match. It's not really any one thing. It is uncategorizable. Yes. It's a true dusty roads, unimaginable mortgage board of things. Yes.
02:15:12
Speaker
So given that, yeah, this show is definitely better. I like that we have title matches on the show. I like that they have only four tag matches and then the Battle Bowl bookends a show, essentially. So it's a break there. I feel like the roster is really thin by having, I said, every challenger in Battle Bowl.
02:15:33
Speaker
which means all the ones that win their battle matches have three matches. Yes. It's very strange. Because they say they have 35 people back there. They only use 11 of them. Well, 16. Excuse me. Yeah, yeah. Well, they say they only use 11 of them. Right, yes. Poor Tom Zink is hanging up back there. It'd be my turn soon, right? No? Hey, Sting, you're going back out again? Oh, OK. Picture him just ready to go the whole time and seeing people come and go, and it's like, oh.
02:16:03
Speaker
You know, they could have had like an extra person, they had everyone that wasn't called in the ring in the beginning and do like a quick hyper match, you know, like pens and over the thing count and then like maybe one or two people actually make it to the Battle Ball. Yeah. I picture Tom Zink sitting backstage and, you know, he's watching that bit with Dr. Death and Eric Watson, you know, he sees that dropkick happen and he's like, could have told him that wouldn't be possible. Yep. That's true.
02:16:32
Speaker
This is WW, so what they would actually have done is they would have everyone that didn't get to have a match tonight surround the ring as lumberjacks. Yes. Yes. Haven't had lumberjacks yet. We need that. Yes. And even though the whole point of this match is to throw them out of the ring, they are there to throw them back in. Well, yeah, if you get caught before you hit the floor, you can be thrown back in.
WCW and New Japan: An Apology or Bribe?
02:16:51
Speaker
So everybody has their allies outside the ring. I feel bad for Vader's allies in this situation. You're so too far. No, no, you're good. No, sorry.
02:16:59
Speaker
No offense. Or firemen with trampolines. I'll lock game and watch. Yes. There you go.
02:17:06
Speaker
Now I do have a theory overlapping this show, sort of runs through it. Remembering what happened in the time the Newtween shows, we have the Stylers both gone due to managerial issues, and we have the whole brick flare and title thing that happened as well. So given that, and seeing that we randomly have Kazuki Sasaki on the show, we had the End of Bay World Title match featuring two guys that aren't in the company.
02:17:30
Speaker
And we have all these people like Dan Spivey and Dr. Death, who while they have wrestled for WCW, at this point are mostly all Japan, in the case of Spivey and Death, but New Japan, there's other people. I almost feel like this show is sort of a very elaborate bribe and or apology to New Japan in general. Because they highly promote these stars, they don't really promote
02:17:54
Speaker
The fact that Moodle wins Battle Bowl, because like, well you can win Battle Bowl, it doesn't mean anything, but it's almost like they're mending fences. Yeah, I could see that. Do you think they're trying to gather viewership? I think that as well, yeah. Personally, an apology to the NWA maybe as well. The NWA wants them to work with New Japan because they don't trust WCW on their own. Yeah.
02:18:16
Speaker
No, I can't find confirmation of this. I didn't like go through and find everyone's hour of shoot video and then explain it. But that's my theory on why, except these people are randomly on the show, why these matches happen, stuff like that. That's the only way I can find my own information for all that. You think they're just trying to fill the roster a little bit, you know? Well, I don't think they needed to, but that's the thing. Yeah, Moody has three matches on the show, you know, he's not an actual roster man. It's true. Yeah, it's true. It is surprising, yeah.
02:18:41
Speaker
And they do have 35 in the back. Yes. Paul Wunder is back there doing nothing too. Steve Austin's back there. Yep, yep. I think Arnt's even back there though. I think Arnt's around still. I think so, yeah, at this point. Well, the drawing is random, so who knows. Yeah. That's true.
02:18:57
Speaker
The show had a lot going for it. You got to see Steamboat again. You know, you got to see Muda. I was impressed with Simmons tonight. It wasn't a Baskin Robbins 31 flavors, but there was something for everyone. Yeah. Even though it did have several tag matches and several ridiculous things that towards the end, like a battle bowl, there was something for everyone. I'm glad they didn't go the same route and made Sting or Vader the winner, the battle bowl. I think it would take away from their match.
02:19:24
Speaker
You know, I was happy to see Liger. Unfortunately, I didn't get to see him in the capacity that I think he should have been represented. It wasn't his day. I think that was more narrative than ability. It was definitely infinitely more watchable than last year. It was one of those things where I didn't have to like, I had to stop watching to get through it. Yeah. Yeah. I totally get you on that. Yeah, absolutely. It could have had better commercials. Yes.
02:19:51
Speaker
Although the commercial did remind me of like maybe video game sounds in it, whenever they were doing the supercuts. Yes.
Battle Bowl Concept and Execution
02:19:57
Speaker
This was so much better than last year's show. Less matches given more time to develop. They maintained the overall battle ball concept, but it seems like a more developed version. Some of the kinks worked out. I was happy to see more match variety too. Even if it was just having singles matches on the card as well as tags, it did a lot to break things up.
02:20:17
Speaker
It's kind of weird to think that I'm celebrating a return to, effectively, the Starrcade 88 match set when I complained about how many tag matches that show had. But what a difference a few years make. I'm sorry. I will never complain about a mere four or five tag matches again after experiencing ten. You don't know she got tilts gone. Yeah, I'm kidding. I'll totally complain again, but not tonight. Okay, fair enough.
02:20:40
Speaker
There were some great matches on this show, especially the Tag Title match and the King of Cable match. The action was good for most of the night, though. Things slowed down a little bit with Muta vs. Chono, but I still feel like I should have liked that more than I did. We got a lot of great character moments from a lot of people, personalities shown through in almost every match. The show felt larger than life, hitting just the right balance of character and athleticism.
02:21:04
Speaker
The commentary team was pretty great. Some bad attempts at jokes aside, Jesse was a great addition, and I appreciated his commentary on holds. He was willing to spend some time explaining how they worked and what they did, and it made the matches easier to understand. JR and Jesse had some really good discussions and just the right amount of tension, and JR had some great eye-rolling reactions to his antics at points.
02:21:27
Speaker
JR has always been a great announcer, but it felt like Jesse brought more personality out, giving him a lot to react to in a better way than Polly Dangerously tried back at Starrcade 90. The interaction felt natural and the arguments were fun. There were some hitches here and there. I'm not sure why we had to do some of the team drawings on this show when we'd done some earlier, and I wonder if all those guys backstage who didn't have matches got paid the same or at all.
02:21:51
Speaker
The handling of the ring ceremony was just weird, and it's strange that Muda didn't get his ring on the show after they made such a big deal out of it. I was glad we heard from Sting mid-show, but it actually would have been an interesting interview if they talked to him afterwards too, since he had an accomplishment and failure the same night. At a ring ceremony for Muda, an interview with Sting at the end and I think you've got a really great ending.
02:22:13
Speaker
I think that's the thing overall. I would have liked to still see a little bit more outside of the wrestling. Not much, but just quick comments here and there. Battle Bowl is such an unusual concept and such an opportunity. I would have liked to see comments from Wyndham and Pillman, especially, on having to fight each other, then team with each other. Things like that could bring out what makes this idea unique, and maybe make it more appealing.
02:22:35
Speaker
I also feel like,
King of Cable: Emotional High Point
02:22:37
Speaker
even if Battle Ball was better, the King of Cable match really should have been the final. That was the emotional high point of the night. I kind of felt deflated watching the Battle Ball match. Like, the show should be over, right? I got to see one of the best matches ever. Why is it still going on? Yeah. It's a debate with, like, for Simba WrestleMania 18. Rock and Hogan have their classic match, but it's not an event because it's Chris Jericho and Triple Eight for the world title. Yeah. And that's to follow that.
02:23:04
Speaker
Yeah, Battle Bowl was fine, but it felt like the show was just lingering after it already had its proper finish. And I can kind of understand from a perspective, too, that you know it's gonna take a ton out of Sting Invader to do their King of Cable match. So maybe they thought, oh, wait, if we push that to after Battle Bowl...
02:23:21
Speaker
then they're not going to have enough left to do their match. But I wanted that to be it. I was like, I'm so happy right now. I don't want anything to spoil this. And Battle Ball didn't. But I was just like, oh, it just kind of is going on.
02:23:37
Speaker
Overall
Sting vs. Vader: Match of the Night
02:23:38
Speaker
though, really really good show, much easier watch than last year. I really enjoyed it and there's matches here that I am going to come back and watch again and again for sure. Can we talk more about glowing scorpions? In a minute maybe. Okay good. We got to do our match of the night in MPP first.
02:23:54
Speaker
Ellie, you want to go first? Sure, why not? Probably guessed by the way I reacted to the match, my match tonight is Sting vs Vader, and I think I will turn it final. Bob and I had a really good time watching that together when we did the actual viewing. I did rewatch it to think maybe, you know, maybe I'm remembering this stronger as I had the group Namek, but no, just as well the second time. Yep.
02:24:15
Speaker
There's definitely some ones that could have gotten close to that level if certain things that happened, like if the match with Sting, like when all them had been re-booked, I could see that the quality of people could have made that stronger, or even stuff in the Vader's Battle Ball match. If certain things here that had been tweaked, that could have really competed for it, but as a whole package, there's no beating the Sting Vader match for me. And I'm like, no, my MVP is Vader, because he's shining in all three matches, and he's Vader.
02:24:48
Speaker
All right, John. In theory, I had several that were running for, when I read the docket or the order, there was three that I was looking for. And that was the Sting, Dr. Death, Eric Watts, and Thunderlagger just because it had those three in it. The Muda and Jono match because I thought that would be high flying fun. Neither of them really came anywhere where I thought they would.
02:25:15
Speaker
I won't say the third one yet, but in watching the Ron Simmons versus Dr. Death was really good. I'm still going to have to agree with Al. The Vader versus Sting was amazing. And I'm also going to say Vader's my favorite for the night just because he did great in every single match, including BattleVolt. He amped it up each match and it was a good conclusion.
02:25:43
Speaker
So even after all that he went through, he still had those two dyes in him. Yeah, absolutely, yeah. Alright, well, it's three for three on Match of the Night, because unquestionably, without any competition, Sting versus Vader for the King of Cable final is my match of the night. I'd call this career-defining for both men. If you want to explain why Sting is such a great babyface, or why Vader is the scariest dude in the universe, you show someone this match.
02:26:08
Speaker
Sting was incredible, Vader was incredible, and the story was perfectly paced and performed exceptionally. This one is not just Match of the Night, it's a clear contender for Match of the Series for me. MVP.
02:26:25
Speaker
I'm gonna go with Sting. Vader was brutal and powerful and amazing all night. I totally agree with you guys on that. And he had, like I said, three terrific performances. But I think Sting had the performance of a lifetime in that King of Cable match. It took both of them to make that work, no doubt.
02:26:43
Speaker
But for me, the pure emotional weight of that match depended heavily on Sting's selling, Sting's character, and he made me feel that match. His exhaustion afterwards made it clear that he had pushed himself to his absolute limit, even with a match left to go. So it's a really impressive performance, and I was really torn. I was Stinger Vader, obviously. Oh, no, yeah. But yeah, I think I have to go with Sting on that. I felt his performance so much.
02:27:13
Speaker
Jayden does a match like that, especially when it seems like we all sync up in agreement on it. There shouldn't be only one version that can be that. Yeah, I was glad when you guys chose Vader, it made it easier for me to be like, no, I can pick Sting now because someone has said Vader. I wanted to pick him last year, just Battle Ball wasn't enough for him. It was either Vader or Eric Watts.
02:27:39
Speaker
Yeah, is there something we can give Eric Watts a, I don't know, memorable moment of the night, I guess? Historical moment? I don't know. No, Sting would be a close second, so, for sure. Yeah. In terms of what would make the best GIF, most famous GIF on the show, that Eric Watts dropping is a very famous GIF? Yeah. Yep. Yep. The hop kick. That's a great name for the hop kick, yeah.
02:28:05
Speaker
I want to say one thing too on this Stingvader match. It's an interesting example of how you shouldn't judge books in our matches by their covers. Because you need to tell someone, oh yeah, there's a match where it's Sting and Vader in the final, the King of Kale tournament. People are like, what the hell is a King of Kale tournament? That's not reaching at all. So you couldn't make any situation you're in the match that good if you were willing to do what they did. Absolutely. And I think Sting and Vader proved that time and time again in their careers.
02:28:35
Speaker
I was having that reaction like, oh, it's Sting versus Vader. I feel like that's going to be great. But it's also for this King of Cable thing. Is there anything weird going on with that? What's what's
Conclusion and Next Show Preview
02:28:44
Speaker
that about? And then I watched that match. I was absolutely blown away. Yeah. And that wraps up our review of Starrcade 92 Battle Ball, the Lethal Lottery 2 electric boogaloo sisters.
02:28:59
Speaker
If you've enjoyed listening to us tonight, you can search for us on Twitter or Facebook as Let's Go to the Ring. Follow us for episode announcements and other show details, and share your own thoughts about the Star Cades as we go through. And please, if you've enjoyed this show, give us a nice review on iTunes and share the show through your favorite social media platforms to help others discover us. Many thanks to OSW Review for attendance and pay-per-view figures.
02:29:23
Speaker
Join us next time for Starrcade 93, 10th Anniversary, as WCW celebrates with the return of Mr. Starrcade himself, Rick Flair, and we celebrate being done with Battle Bulls. For Starrcade anyway. This is Bob Moore for Alec Pridgen and John Mullins, signing off. Good night everybody, happy wrestling.
02:29:56
Speaker
Wow. I really typed that. I typed Windham Shoves Muda to the corner to tag out to Muda. Okay.