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Caytha Jentis and Paul Adams
1.3k Plays1 year ago
Over to the NYC to get exclusive coverage of the plays Sex Work, Sex Play by Caytha Jentis and Doris Day: My Secret Love by Paul Adams!
Caytha Jentis is a former literary agent. She has written, produced and directed a number of award-winning features including Bad Parents starring Janeane Garofalo, Cheri Oteri, Christopher Titus and Kristen Johnston (Cinedigm), And Then Came Love starring Vanessa Williams and Eartha Kitt (Warner Bros), and The One starring Jon Prescott (TLA Releasing). She has an MFA from UCLA in screenwriting and a BS in TV/film from Syracuse University. She is a member of the Producers Guild and NYWIFT.
Paul Adams founded Emerging Artists Theatre in 1993 and has been the Artistic Director for the life of the company. During this time, he has helped showcase hundreds of new works (plays, solo-shows, musicals & dance pieces) for off and off-off Broadway. Some of his favorite credits include directing the off-Broadway production of Sisters’ Dance by Sarah Hollister at Baruch Performing Arts Center and producing the solo-show The Sensational Josephine Baker by Cheryl Howard which had two off-Broadway runs at Theatre Row and received a rave review in the NY Times. Paul performed his critically acclaimed solo-show The Cleaning Guy at FringeNYC in 2016 and is currently workshopping his full length play, Doris Day: My Secret Love. He has also served on the NY Innovative Theatre Awards committee since its inception.
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Transcript
Podcast Introduction
00:00:01
Speaker
You are listening to something rather than nothing. Creator and host Ken Volante. Editor and producer Peter Bauer.
Introduction to Guests and Their Plays
00:00:16
Speaker
Hey everybody, this is Ken Vellante with the Something Rather Than Nothing podcast, and I am most excited to have two playwrights and folks in plays in entertainment. Paul Adams with new production, Doris Day, My Secret Love, and Keitha Gentis with sex work.
00:00:41
Speaker
sex play and going to be talking about these plays going to be on the stage and wanted to welcome both of you on to the arts and philosophy show and welcome on.
Guests Share Excitement
00:00:57
Speaker
Thanks Ken, glad to be here.
00:00:59
Speaker
Yeah, no, I'm super excited to be here. And when we get into it, you'll, you'll understand why. Yes. Yes. Um, uh, so, um, I, uh, wonderful, uh, relationship, uh, via email with Andrea Alton and, um, and what it's, I want to tell you something, you know, unique in my experience, it's put me into contact with, uh, plays and what's going on in, in, in New York and just kind of.
00:01:28
Speaker
fresh idea. So I've had this kind of vicarious living over from Oregon, you know, seeing these wonderful productions.
Development of 'Doris Day, My Secret Love'
00:01:40
Speaker
So I wanted to start with you, Paul, and regarding your production, Doris Day, My Secret Love. And everybody, just so you know, Paul's the founder of Emerging Artists Theater.
00:01:54
Speaker
and for quite some time in founder and a lot of experience around producing plays and writing. And so we're going to drop into that world. But Paul, right off the bat, tell us about Doris Day, My Secret Love, and what's going on for you right now.
00:02:18
Speaker
Well, this play started about six years ago. I just got an idea in my head about Doris Day and just kind of get it out of my head. And it started out as a solo show with just a male accompanist. But then as we were working through the development, I found that it was just her kind of telling stories and it was not very active.
00:02:43
Speaker
So then I decided to bring in a concept that she's at a retrospective of her life and without her knowledge, the producers are showing photos of her past life. So these photos kind of shock her into flashbacks.
Exploring Doris Day's Life
00:02:58
Speaker
So then her accompanist, who's her friend Les Brown, who wrote Sentimental Journey that they recorded together, he then becomes all the different men in her life. And so it made it much more active and much more of a journey for the audience.
00:03:13
Speaker
But we've been working on this for about five years, and I just actually did some more rewrites two weeks ago. So we open a week from Monday on Labor Day.
00:03:24
Speaker
and we run for eight weeks off Broadway, along with Kate's play in rep. And I'm really excited to see, there's a lot of people I think who know who Doris Day is, but I think this will give them more insight into her life and what, you know, she was always like the American sweetheart, but she had a lot of kind of dark stuff happen in her personal life that a lot of people didn't know about. And the actress sings about 14 of her favorite songs, so.
00:03:53
Speaker
Oh my gosh, I'm excited for it now. Sometimes when I find out about these things, I'm like, well, gosh, I really want to jump in and see it.
Humor in Plays and Modern Topics
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Speaker
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00:04:35
Speaker
I am such like a fan of philosophical stories and artists. So I always go to people like Jung and Beckett and Sartre and I'll be as my inspiration. So that's why when I saw that you have a philosophy background, I'm like, oh, this is so pretty. So with that in mind, and I tend, again, because I found
00:05:02
Speaker
especially a lot of the existential playwrights used humor. And so I like to use humor as a way to kind of talk about important topics. So that's how I attack. So it is a very funny play, but I want to really look at
00:05:22
Speaker
sex and connection and relationships in our digitally kind of all-encompassing times and how really it's impacted how we relate and connect and also how different generations kind of look at sex work because it was seeing that you know we're living in very transactional times right now we're everything like if you're on
00:05:43
Speaker
a dating app, you're swiping, if you're on Amazon, you're swiping. And so I just thought, you know, I want to look at that as well. So there's five characters, it's very much like crazy, stupid love that if I go too much into the plot, it's kind of gives it away. But it's really dealing with these themes with five people that ultimately are
Characters in 'Sex Work, Sex Play'
00:06:05
Speaker
interconnected. And it's a divorced mother, her college age daughter, a suburban couple, and then this male,
00:06:13
Speaker
personal trainer, only fan, sex worker. And it's fun and fast and furious. And it really deals with taboo topics in kind of an easy to digest, hopefully inspiring conversation way. Yeah. Yeah. I, um, I, uh, I, I find that, um,
00:06:36
Speaker
uh... one of the things that that i was thinking about is out on uh... living in oregon uh... and uh... for for me is you know every place has its problems but i'm very sensitive to how like uh... a culture is different and one of the fascinating pieces in in oregon is that uh... there's a strong uh... reliance or strong interpretation of like first amendment speech so there's a lot of deference to expression uh... that's here which means you see a lot of uh...
00:07:07
Speaker
Well, a lot more, at least for me, creatively and otherwise. And I found it to be very fertile to just kind of be and explore and to learn more about different things. So I like that environment. And I love the existential playwrights we refer to, of course, of Beckett and
00:07:28
Speaker
and Sartre, and we'll get some more into that. I did see that too. We're mutually excited probably reading about each other. Jumping over, hey Paul, can you, and sorry for how naive this question might be, but, so I'm reading about how there's the cycle, I don't know if you call it a cycle, like the plays, you're working with Katha, and you're doing your work, and there's another play, Anne Frank, and
00:07:57
Speaker
What is going on? Bring me in. What is going on with the creative process that's there and the rewrites? And are you working together as plays? Are you sharing time? How does that all work? I really know nothing about that piece of it.
Spark Theater Festival's Role
00:08:14
Speaker
Sure, all three of these pieces came out of our developmental series that we do. It's called the Spark Theater Festival and we do it twice a season. And it's a chance for artists to bring in their works in progress. They put them in front of an audience for one night and then they get to sit with the audience and ask them questions about what they just experienced to help evolve their work. And so all three of these pieces had been part in the last couple of years, part of that series.
00:08:43
Speaker
And...
00:08:45
Speaker
all of the playwrights all went through the process of having a reading of their current draft put up and then being able to talk to the audience. I mean, it really is a great opportunity because as a playwright to be able to ask very specific questions to people who've just seen your work is like one of the most beneficial things because then you can find out like what's landing, what's not landing and something that you thought was really funny they didn't get it all or something else they got confused about something
00:09:14
Speaker
So it gives you that chance to go back and do rewrites and then do another reading and see if you've cleared everything up. Because writing is a constant process. I mean, you're never really, really done. You're to a point where it's ready to go before an audience. But then there's still always a little bit of tweaking in there and stuff like that.
00:09:34
Speaker
But these three pieces, because I've run the theater company for 30 years. This is our 30th anniversary. Congratulations, congratulations. Thank you. We've always been dedicated to playwrights and artists and giving them a home where they can develop their work because it takes a while to develop something depending on how fast you write and do rewrites.
Theater Company's Anniversary and Return
00:09:58
Speaker
And so these three, for some reason, I just felt that they kind of fit together as this is our return to off-Broadway. We haven't done off-Broadway in 10 years due to COVID and other situations. And so now I feel like the time is ready to come back again.
00:10:15
Speaker
They're all such different formats and different writing styles that I think that they give an audience a wide variety of entertainment to come and see. So that's kind of how I piece the three of them together. I love that. And I'm so excited to hear about that process, Kaitha. So you're within that. And I didn't know about that interactivity, right? Because a lot of times I've done some
00:10:42
Speaker
you know, playwrights and talking to playwrights. But a lot of the artists I'd be talking to, you know, the single would go out into the world and then like, where's the listener and that type of thing. So, Keith, you're part of this process. What's going on with this process and the feedback that you're getting? What's that like?
00:10:59
Speaker
Well, it's so exciting because I mean, I have a background in independent film. I've written plays in the past, but that's what it is. This is such an incredible art form because of what you're talking about, because first of all, you're dealing with a live audience. And as you speak to many other art forms, it's out in the universe.
00:11:18
Speaker
you might see things on the internet, but you don't experience an audience. And it's as well as, um, you know, I mean, Paul as the artistic director and producer has given me notes and thoughts on the process. The director, uh, gives, you know, her input as well as the actors. And since we have like, you know, like a month rehearsal process, that is such an amazing experience to watch these actors.
00:11:47
Speaker
really become these characters and then, you know, which you don't really get, like you certainly don't get that in independent film. Independent film, they read the script, they show up on set, they rehearse their lines while they're, you know, setting up the scene and it's not even shot in order. And it's, I mean, there's nothing more thrilling and exciting to be able to, you know, watch your cast become your characters and grow and embody them.
00:12:17
Speaker
Yeah, I wanted to ask, too, as far as the process just to learn, how long does this part going? And also do most, like a lot of the plays, are they formed in this process with the interactivity that you described?
00:12:38
Speaker
If you're asking me, I think that is somewhat typical of the theater experience, you know, in new works, especially. I mean, Paul, like, gives this incredible opportunity for new works. I mean, if somebody goes to license an existing play, they're interpreting it. But when you're a playwright doing a new work and you have an artistic director, you have a producer, you have all these people, and it is incredibly collaborative, but the writer
00:13:08
Speaker
has a lot more input than, let's say, in film where the director is a little bit more the king. So it's really nice. You know, it is a wonderful process for an artist.
Collaboration in Playwriting
00:13:21
Speaker
Yeah, and I would say that one of the main things when I started the company was that it is a company for playwrights to make sure that the playwrights always were the center of the process. Like we've never charged a playwright to submit or to participate. You know, they always get a share of the box office because it's so funny because the playwright creates the product that employs everyone else.
00:13:47
Speaker
But yet, you know, they want playwrights to pay $25 to have somebody read their play or $50 to read their play. And it's like, well, they don't charge actors to audition. They don't charge directors to be interviewed. So we've always had that policy for 30 years because I think it's very important. And you also, like over the course of a year between our two series, we get over 350 submissions.
00:14:13
Speaker
So through that, I have to go through and read all of those and then contact the artist and find out those playwrights who really are interested in working on their plays. Because sometimes you get people who are like, no, I wrote it and it's done. But then you'll see that there's problems with that writing. And if they're not willing to go in and really work,
00:14:33
Speaker
to make it a better piece, then you want to find those artists that are willing to collaborate and that want to go through that process because it's only going to make the play stronger. I've never seen it make the play worse. Yeah, and thanks for describing that. One of the things I get excited about on the show is I'm excited about this conversation is
00:15:00
Speaker
kind of like the kinetic energy that's involved in this process, like art being made and that whole creative and what that environment is. And like sometimes I find even in doing the show,
00:15:16
Speaker
If I'm going into a particular form of arts, I have a need to get back to maybe this live energy or the play or the music. It invigorates me. I feel that energy. I want to say, Paul, from hearing you talk
00:15:34
Speaker
and seeing what you've done. Thank you for your work. And the kind of dedication and the focus, because me as an outsider to the arts world, you see these dollar figures and these entry barriers and things that I don't understand because I'm pretty much an outsider. But I just really love hearing about the collaboration and the accessibility. And on your side, it's saying, hey,
00:16:03
Speaker
If you want, it's like a collaboration. If you put something in and you want to make this what it should be, then we can work together. I have to say that one of the things, when COVID happened, we had a spring series that was just two weeks from opening. We had 65 artists over the three weeks that were dance, musicals, plays, and then everything shut down.
00:16:27
Speaker
And so for two years, you know, we did some things that we recorded and put on YouTube just so we could keep helping artists. But when we came back in the fall of 21 to be an
00:16:38
Speaker
See, I'm gonna get emotional. It's like to be in front of a live audience and to feel that energy exchange again was just like, it's something that you don't get anywhere else. You have to have that exchange of energy between the audience and the actors and what's happening on stage, because they both feed each other. And for two years of having that shut off, it was devastating for so many artists. Well, and to piggyback on what Paul said, when we did the auditions,
00:17:08
Speaker
in person, I mean, the actors too felt that same feeling that Paul did when they were like, oh my gosh, thank you for doing an in-person audition. We've done all these Zoom auditions and self-taping. And it was just they had that same emotional experience of being in front of a director and a playwright and a producer and doing it on a stage, their audition, and they were equally as moved.
00:17:36
Speaker
I, it's wonderful to hear that and very much connected to the exchange. Let me ask you, Paul, just one more related to this. From your perspective, with the pandemic and with this radical
00:17:59
Speaker
the change or whatever, the change there. Have you seen something different happen with Playwright or the process or what's connected to it? Or was it just kind of a pause and the energy's back in? Have you seen something just different come out?
00:18:18
Speaker
It was really hard because I knew a lot of other theater companies. We rent our space just for our productions, but there were other people who actually had leases on spaces and they lost their leases and a lot of them folded. So they went completely under. And then a lot of artists had an adverse reaction to it. They just became so isolated
00:18:47
Speaker
that a lot of them, their creativity just kind of stopped. I mean, I know with myself, I just, even though I had all this time because I wasn't working, I could not connect to being creative. It was just something stopping that creativity.
00:19:02
Speaker
And it wasn't until like I was able to take off a mask and be back in a live situation that then I felt like it unlocked again. And I was able to start doing, you know, cause I started doing rewrites on Doris then after, you know, about a year or so after COVID. So, um, but it was weird cause I had all this time, but yet I just, I couldn't connect artistically to anything.
Creativity During the Pandemic
00:19:26
Speaker
It was strange. What about you Kisa?
00:19:30
Speaker
Well, I mean, I found ways to be creative during the pandemic differently and actually the spark of this play, the thing that kind of triggered me writing the full length piece was a theater company that was doing these monologues. Cause they were like, okay, we have to find a way to have some sort of experience and do things like even in social media, like, you know, somebody like Randy, Randy rainbow, like how do we use the tools we have? But I was,
00:20:00
Speaker
Um, a theater company was like, Oh, can you do a monologue for an actor? And we will do it, you know, on zoom with a green screen. And that's kind of that monologue. I was like, Oh, I feel like there's a bigger story. So I, I mean, I feel like the, um, you know, our muses come and go and the pandemic became a challenging muse and.
00:20:25
Speaker
You know, and again, I had worked in film and I do think obviously as a labor person, you know, about the writer's strike and the actor's strike, but I feel like there was many things broken in the film business. So I'm like, okay, well, I'm a writer, I can pivot. And when I start to write this as a longer piece, I kept going, don't write it as a film, write it as a play, write it as a play, write it as a play. But I do think to what Paul said, many theater companies
00:20:54
Speaker
are struggling with getting audiences back in, which I think part of it was because theater was the last thing to reopen after the pandemic. And I just think it's a habit. People might have gone and seen a lot of plays and tourism, but it's getting that audience back. But I would like to say, as somebody helping, Paul, with ticket sales, I feel like we are doing quite well. So very happy that
00:21:24
Speaker
we are sort of breaking that mold. Yeah, yeah, that's wonderful to hear and inspiring. All right, Kaitha, you know, this is legit philosophy and art program here. And I got to ask you one of the big ones, you spend so much time in your life creating. You must think about it all the time. What is art?
Keitha's Perspective on Art
00:21:51
Speaker
Oh, wow. That's a deep question.
00:21:56
Speaker
So I feel like we all have these creative beasts inside of us. So to me, I'm kind of feeding and nurturing my beast in writing, but I feel like art is, can be anything, honestly. Like I think for somebody cooking or cleaning or, um,
00:22:20
Speaker
you know uh scrap like i think art can be anything that is this process a creative process that we have like it's an active thing but i think it can manifest itself many different ways and it's this way of triggering as i say you know this beast inside of us that you know waking her up basically yeah all right wow beast inside of you all right good
00:22:49
Speaker
No, no, that's good. That's good. Um, cause she's in that cage and it's rattling and all of us that suppress. And I do think that's kind of to an Eastern philosophy, like things like Tai Chi and whatever is we can find art and creativity really anywhere. It's just on us to find that art.
00:23:11
Speaker
Yeah, yeah. Just to interject, I brought it up a lot during the show and just kind of like how we think about art and creativity. And the thinker who cracked my head open was David Lynch, going very deliberately in, because there's this idea that we would all be familiar with of, like, Dostoevsky, maybe tortured soul, creator.
00:23:40
Speaker
And of course, if you're familiar with like, Dave Lynch is like, yo, that that's, that's not weird. It is in more of the attention to what arises maybe from a dreamscape or from your mind and trying to catch those things, which is such a different way of viewing it. And I don't have the answer on it, but it was just a radical switch about kind of weird,
00:24:08
Speaker
the art comes from.
Paul's View on Art and Theater
00:24:10
Speaker
What do you think, Paul? What is art? And that whole bit there too about how you created, you know? What's your thoughts?
00:24:21
Speaker
It's, I agree with Kaytha. It's something that's very individual for individual people and it can range anything from dance to solo work to musicals to plays to, you know, gardening to, I mean, you know, cause everybody in their own mind has an idea of what they consider something as artistic. You know, just all the different genres of place. I'm like, I'm not really into Shakespeare. I'm not really into Greek theater.
00:24:47
Speaker
But I like something that grabs me and takes me someplace I'm not expecting and hopefully makes me either laugh or teaches me something. And that's sort of where I come from artistically. Like I want an audience to come in and after seeing something I've written have had an experience, a journey. Either again, it touches them somehow or it makes them laugh their head off or somehow they connect to it.
00:25:17
Speaker
Because I think when you, as an artist, connect to other individuals, that makes it real to them. It makes it something that they'll remember. And as they're walking home, they'll think about something from that. And if it makes them think or it brings them entertainment and helps to maybe lessen the load of their life, then I feel like that means I've done my job. Yeah. Yeah.
00:25:41
Speaker
And I just want to piggyback, because I do think, I mean, what is art? But I do think the audience is part of it. Because there is no art in many ways if you don't have the audience. It's the tree in the woods. Does it exist? And there are many who can just do it for themselves. But I think especially what the art forms that Paul and I are in,
00:26:10
Speaker
the art and the patron of the art are as are valuable and important and part of the whole experience. Yeah. Yeah. I, uh, I, uh, I was thinking of, um, you know, just kind of where art comes from in the energy and there's all sorts of notions and ideas. And sometimes when I asked the, the, you know, like the, the what is art, um, it kind of like moves a little bit towards like the idea within, um,
00:26:37
Speaker
Michelangelo, that the forms were already out there, like the perfect was already there, and that the artist was the chipper if they were sculpting, right? The perfection was underneath. And I find that kind of switch around just fascinating, you know, to think about. Part of me, one of the cool things I was thinking about being a labor activist myself for so long, the only theater
00:27:07
Speaker
that I can recall doing is street theater, which is very much a part of. So I've had more fun a couple times doing that. They put a monocle on me, and I'd be the banker, and that type of thing. And I had so much fun with that, because it was just loose and free, and it was really from the streets. I mean, we're writing it as we're going.
00:27:32
Speaker
And that's been my connection to doing it, but I love it. And I love feeling that and being somebody different. And I like how people can come together for what you're trying to work on or show up or stick a finger up to something and show it up and create right there.
00:28:01
Speaker
Um i've enjoyed that limited performances usually as the bad guy, but I saw a similar thing that was talking about you know, um About kind of landlords and how you know people come, you know because a lot of people housing became a real problem after the pandemic because people were out of work and this place
00:28:26
Speaker
at this community center did do it similar to what you did. They're like, OK, we're going to use theater as a way to have a dialogue on a social issue and involve the audience to come out and sort of role play. And it is, you know, and that's similar to like my storytelling is like, OK, I want to unpack something. And in my play, it's about, you know, it is kind of about sex and making it dealing in a nonjudgmental
00:28:54
Speaker
destigmatizing way on things that are somewhat taboo so it's not like Giving them things to think about to what Paul is saying, but you're doing in a way that's entertainment Yeah, I am you know in in in looking I was thinking from the outside individually on on your topics and I'll start with you Kaytha what I what I first thought when I saw the play and I
00:29:21
Speaker
The sex positive podcast, but I'm looking at Creating that and I'm like, holy shit. Like that would freak me out. What do I write about? Like what's interesting to anybody? How do I get into this like the vulnerability to it? how what was the was that process like for you to be like To get into the content on the plate. Was there something different about it? Was it just a flow? well, I yeah, I do feel like I
00:29:48
Speaker
I go very deep into research and talking to people because I am
00:29:55
Speaker
kind of an extrovert. So that was kind of the fun where like I, because like I said, it started as this monologue about a porn star, like only fan sex worker going on a date on match.com and he's at the barber and he's super nervous and you don't know who he is at the end. And it's this guy so nervous about going on a date and in the space to me, I was like, okay, porn makes sex. Um,
00:30:20
Speaker
like this unattainable look at sex. And then I also thought social media makes romance very unattainable. So it was this kind of both sides that he wanted this very unrealistic romance while he worked in this very, and that they're very different, that making love is very different than having sex. And that's what it kind of started, this guy with a heart of gold, you know, looking for the perfect girl.
00:30:45
Speaker
And then I was like, well, what would be the foil to this character? And I'm like, oh, I know all these women, you know, in midlife that are, you know, a lot of times they're divorced that are completely down on love because they cannot find somebody. So I'm like, okay, this guy's looking for love and who's, you know, dejected by love. But I feel like once you pick your theme, all of a sudden things
00:31:10
Speaker
you know, which is in that synchronicity space. It feels like everywhere, like something is gonna trigger the story and be part of the plot because, and you have to listen. And, you know, that was kind of, you know, the fun of it. And then I would be like, when people are like, okay, so what are you working on now? And I'm like, oh, set a play about sex. And then it always got their attention. And, you know, so it was fun, like the research.
00:31:36
Speaker
But two, what was the other thing you had said at the beginning? Oh shoot, I lost the train of thought. You asked about vulnerability. I just feel when you get, like, I mean, we are, you know, we are the naked emperor saying we have clothes on all the time, artists. And you don't want to be called out for being naked.
00:32:06
Speaker
But I feel like you can only write well if you go to the vulnerable place. And that's to kind of Brené Brown and vulnerability. You just have to accept that, and otherwise you're not going to write well. Because if you're writing out of fear, you're never going to be a good writer. And then I think
00:32:30
Speaker
As I've told many writers, rejection hurts. People are going to say things that may make you cry. And then you just have to wipe the tears and get up the next day and go back out there.
00:32:45
Speaker
And it sounds from UK that you have the energy to keep going back in and working with Paul and Paul expects that is like everything. It sounds. It sounds. She does. Yeah. Hey, that's super. Paul, about
00:33:04
Speaker
Doris Day, and for you in describing the play, I was immediately intrigued, visually thinking about it, of the photos that, you know, that as a piece to move things along. I want to ask you, regarding just the story itself in general, was there anything, you know, Doris Day, America's sweetheart, singer on film,
00:33:29
Speaker
Of course, anybody who is that on screen, we're going to surmise that life is very different from that.
Surprising Facts About Doris Day
00:33:35
Speaker
Were there a couple things that kind of like just stood out or surprised you or maybe even the visual on the photos that spurred the story where you're like, whoa, what is this with Doris Day? Well, what's interesting is that the photos were chosen after I wrote it.
00:33:50
Speaker
So because along with the songs, initially we had, I had 17 songs and then I went through and I'm like, some of these songs are really great songs, but they're not doing anything for the plot. So I wanted the song and the lyrics in the song to be part of that moment in the script in her life.
00:34:08
Speaker
So I carefully chose the songs to reflect those parts of the script so that it had a through line, basically. So the songs that she's singing also were triggering these other memories that are happening to her.
00:34:27
Speaker
You know, like you had mentioned before we started the podcast, the whole Charles Manson thing was so surprising because most people don't know that Charles Manson, her son was a record producer, Terry. He worked with the Mamas and the Papas, the Birds, the Beach Boys, and so Charles Manson sent him a tape.
00:34:47
Speaker
and wanted him to produce a song. So he went out to the commune and met him. But once he went home and he listened to the music, it just wasn't good. And so Charles Manson then started threatening him. And he was supposed to be at that house that night, but Doris
00:35:05
Speaker
told him that she wasn't going to be at her beach house. And he was dating Candace Bergen at the time. So they went to Doris' house that night. And then Manson got there. And because they weren't there, that was one of the reasons also that he killed all the others as a message to Terry. And so Terry then kind of spun into this whole drug thing of paranoia, afraid that Charles Manson was still going to come and get him, slept with a rifle at night. I mean, all of this stuff.
00:35:34
Speaker
And that really, like, I had no idea. But in the film Once Upon a Time that Tarantino did, he actually put just a sliver of that in in the movie about Doris Day's son, Terry. And I was like, that's so cool, because if you don't know that, you know, he connected it that way. But that was one of the really, like, fascinating things, because I had no idea that that happened.
00:35:58
Speaker
And then she had really bad problems with husbands. She chose men who were abusive to her, but some of it was also self-inflicted because she never read contracts, she just signed things. And so people kind of, these men took control of her life for a good chunk of her life. And so that was really surprising because in most of her films, she's a strong woman. And I think that it was a little shocking to find that out.
00:36:29
Speaker
Yeah, I gotta, well, I'm gonna have to go back to the Tarantino film again to catch that point in there because I missed it during the first time. Yeah, that kind of shocking history.
00:36:44
Speaker
of some podcast and stuff and i'm actually uh... fascinated cases uh... nancy cases just dark and mysterious and so a typical and just a horror that you know it it it's it's it's fascinating but like how is something so scary or like you describing the fear that was absolutely instilled like each account that i read was like
00:37:09
Speaker
They're coming after us like they're gonna take us out and like even after the murders some of the like actors famous actors they were all had guns when they were going to the weeks and wild wild wildness, um Uh, okay. Well, um, thanks. Thanks. Thanks for that and I yeah, I heard about a lot about the door stay in the the business in the the the deference and the control and it uh,
00:37:39
Speaker
It's really a really difficult story and some of the things that she went through. It was a different time back then. Women were controlled a lot by the studio heads. And she was just happy to be working. So she just kept signing things that more and more of her rights went away. And her first contract, her agent took 50% and the studio took another 15%. So left her with like 35%.
00:38:06
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. And I think one, sometimes we hear, you know, we hear these stories a lot, like over time within, within entertainment. I think everybody kind of sits back a lot of times with a privileged position or why are you signing out? Why are you signing out? Well, it's very much human behavior. A lot of times of those you're around, those you love or trust or smart people or the one with the suit and people get caught up in these dynamics and sign stuff. It's not, you know, it's not, it's not just being,
00:38:35
Speaker
bullheaded or ignorant or anything. It's just, you know, you get caught up in something that's bigger than yourself. All right, Kate, I know, you know, with the philosophy bit there and you're talking existentialism in on on the show here, I do ask the question, why is there something rather than nothing? But I also I ask it in a way where to kick around the maybe the absurdity or the profundity of the question. But also part of the thing I talk about is like
00:39:05
Speaker
creating and create you know starting with whatever is there and creating something out of it, which is Maybe the subtext for this wild podcast. I've been doing for four years, but um Kate the why is there something rather than nothing?
00:39:22
Speaker
Well, um, wait, so just what, why is what like just, can you ask the question again? Well, what I would say it'd be like, if you want to approach it through the, to, to the creative sense of, um, creating something out of nothing or like weird, where's the generative piece to things? Oh, I mean, I, that is to me, what is amazing is, is the kind of, it's being an alchemist. I mean, because,
00:39:50
Speaker
We have these things in our head like Paul's like, Oh, I want to do, you know, a play that, you know, looks into Doris Day's life. I'm going to do, and then all of a sudden it exists. And that, and I never take that for granted. And then, you know, even when we're rehearsing the play.
00:40:09
Speaker
I'm like, wait, did I actually write that? Like there's times when I'm hearing that I'm like, wait, how did I even, how did I do this? And especially cause it's like, they all come together in the end and I'm like, wait, when did I figure that out? Like I find that it's, it becomes like a very, um, you know, what was the movie like Fantasia, like it becomes this weird kind of experience of becoming this magician and getting lost.
00:40:37
Speaker
in it and that's why I feel like to what we were talking about with Michelangelo like stories possess me and I can't really write until I have a story that possesses me and then I just have to figure out how to get it out and I do look at it as a puzzle
00:40:55
Speaker
that I have to solve. And I just feel like, okay, I know there is the play. When am I gonna come up with this? Like when is, am I gonna get that spark from the gods to have it come out of me? And I do think I never take for granted that it started as nothing and then it becomes something and how kind of mind blowing that is. Yeah. How about you, Paul? I think that
00:41:25
Speaker
Writing wise, it's that blank piece of paper. And you look at it and all of a sudden something shoots into your head. And I was taught in high school by a creative writing teacher, never edit yourself. Just let it all come out. Let it all come out, write out everything. Just write it, write it, write it, write it. Never stop yourself and edit while you're letting it flow because then you'll interrupt the flow.
Paul's Creative Process
00:41:50
Speaker
And so letting that flow happen and then going back and saying, okay, now I can go back and I can look at that.
00:41:56
Speaker
Because in the Dora's piece, when it started out as a solo show, I did three or four different, completely different incarnations of it. One, it was set in a hospital room. One, it was set in a high school. All these different things and it was like, okay, it's not working, that's not working. And then all of a sudden something was like, oh, and it clicked. And all of a sudden out of this nothing, I got this idea that then kind of made everything gel together.
00:42:28
Speaker
And even then, it's still transformed from that point on. And one of the things that I have to credit that to is I have a really great director, Melissa, who's been working with me on this piece since the very beginning, from when it was a solo show to now. And she really helps guide me. And I'm lucky as a writer. I can do rewrites.
00:42:52
Speaker
Like when she wants changes, I do them that night and give them to her the next day, you know, because it's just it. And I know some people are like, oh, I could never give up or let any of my words not be heard. And it's like, but you if they're not helping your play, you have to let go of them, even though you might think this is the funniest line or this is the most tender moment. It's like, you know, as they say, you have to kill your children.
00:43:14
Speaker
don't get no fall in love don't fall in love with that line no and and and because then when it all comes together you're like oh my god i don't miss it at all you know and you can always put that somewhere else and bring it back or put it in something else if you really really loved it but if you want to love the entire piece you have to let those things go i i really get that i i in
00:43:38
Speaker
In my union work, I tell it to a lot of my leaders and stuff like that because I still do it to this day. Don't fall in love with your proposal because it's going to break your heart. It's going to change. It's going to go away and just creatively. I love that line or you love how you did it, but no.
00:44:00
Speaker
It might or might not be fair.
00:44:14
Speaker
And it's frustrating because it's like it could really be something if you're willing to make changes. But some people are very sad that I wrote it and that is what I wrote and that is what it's going to be. And that's fine. And that is there, right? But they're missing what also has to translate to an audience.
00:44:33
Speaker
Because sometimes playwrights are so much in their head that they understand it, especially if they direct their own work, which I never suggest. You need another set of eyes. Tell us about that. Tell us about that. You understand everything because you wrote it. And so when you direct it, you're directing it from your own head, which means that you understand every word.
Challenges of Self-Directing Plays
00:44:53
Speaker
But the people who are coming in aren't in your head. They have to understand it from not knowing anything.
00:45:00
Speaker
And by keeping it so centralized with you doing everything and not having another set of eyes, I think it really is detrimental because something that you're gonna get because you know it so well, they'll come in and they'll be confused because they're, again, they're not in your head. That makes sense. That makes a lot of sense to me, like what you were saying before, because when you first brought up the idea, I was thinking with the workshopping and then I'm like, I'm thinking of it just like if I've written something and then I'm be like,
00:45:27
Speaker
Yeah. Trapped in my own head. Don't you know why this is funny? Because didn't you miss the sixth line? Cause that was set up this line and people like, no, I don't, I don't give a shit. Like I don't, I don't know what you're up to. Who are you? And, um, so I really understand and understand that point in like.
00:45:42
Speaker
that that that reciprocity of the relationship of being having people be honest with it and saying, wow, that was excellent that you were thought you were weak on or that really hit. But I had no clue for that five minutes why those characters were trying to figure this out because, you know, so I mean, I just want to add on that because I believe that's true. But also, and I know Paul's not saying this, you can't write by committee either. And there is the thing that
00:46:09
Speaker
And again, I'm just clarifying on that. It was kind of what you were saying about contracts. You have to have people that you trust and have expertise to give you notes because everybody, and especially lots of times in writing groups, people give you notes on how they would do it, which isn't necessarily the right way. They're like, well, you know. And so I do think it's important because writers, you know, we're here and we're in our heads. You have to have ears.
00:46:37
Speaker
That's the point if somebody can say something's not working and maybe you're like you have to sort of trust your gut go Okay, but if you hear it a couple more times then it's a problem
00:46:48
Speaker
And you have to be, and that goes back to also where we're talking about the vulnerability. When a writer comes in and is like, this is it, take it or leave it. Like it's because they're, they're closed up and they're, it's about having that vulnerability. And again, sometimes you can try to be like, okay, we'll try it your way. And if it doesn't work, you still have your other way. It doesn't mean it doesn't exist. So I just think. And that comes with a little bit of.
00:47:16
Speaker
maturity and experience to be able to, and to be, like I said, a good listener. It's also interesting because I have a friend who's a really great writer and she's written so many plays, but she's so afraid to have them seen by the public because she's like, well, what if they don't like it? And I'm like, but at some point you have to put yourself out there. If you never put your work out there, then no one's going to know that you're really a great writer.
00:47:46
Speaker
There's always going to be people that are not going to understand something or not like the subject matter. You know, that's just part of the world because we all have different experiences. But to keep yourself out of fear from putting it before an audience, you have to be stronger than that. Because ultimately the reward will be that, you know, out of those 100 people, 35 may really connect with the work that you've done. And that is worth that.
00:48:12
Speaker
And it's true what so many people in the arts say. Like, viewers can help, but reviewers sometimes can be your biggest enemy and you can't, and that's why so many people, oh, I didn't even read the reviews, because you really, it's about the audience. And sometimes these reviewers, first of all, they're not seeing it many times with an audience. And so you have to balance all of that
00:48:42
Speaker
And that's where I said, there are going to be times where you have this great audience and the next day you read the review and you're like, they couldn't stand it. And you're like, but, and you're worrying that, Oh my God, you know, my mom's going to read this horrible review and my, and that's where you, you just, that's part of being the artist. And that's why to a lot of it, it's, it can be a very masochistic experience because it is about putting yourself out there.
00:49:10
Speaker
Yeah, yeah. Well, and thank you for the discussion. I mean, it's in the nuanced aspects of it. And like what you were saying, Kate, Paul and Paul and I are chatting about the point of what you get back from the audience. It's also.
00:49:23
Speaker
It's also the bit because you're still there. You're trying to figure out at the same time when it's coming back in and trying to be open to what is useful suggestions or how other people see it. And, um, I do a ton of collaborative work and I just love kind of connecting with, um, I get a feel and, and, and understand a lot better, um, uh, what you're doing. Okay. Let's, uh, before we, uh, before we finish up here, let's,
Performance Schedule Details
00:49:50
Speaker
Drop the details about Doris Day, My Secret Love, Sex Works, Sex Play, going on live. New York City, give the listeners all the details they need to know about how to encounter these works. Wanna start with you, Paul, and move to Ketha? Sure. So they can go to emergingartisttheater.org. The show schedules for Anne being Frank, Doris Day, My Secret Love, and Sex Works, Sex Play are there.
00:50:19
Speaker
The plays run for eight weeks from September 4th through October 29th. They run in rep, so each play has four performances a week. So they run seven days a week. There are matinees and evening performances. All the shows run basically 80 to 85 minutes total, you know, in each play. So no intermission. Kaytha, would you like to add?
00:50:46
Speaker
Well, all I just want to add is the plug that any of your listeners who are very curious about these works, we are welcome to have them go to other cities and other theaters. So this is just the short of our journey for all the people who are like, oh darn, I live in Oregon. I can't get to New York City.
00:51:05
Speaker
Let's make the art contagious. We very much share the same type of thinking. It doesn't have to be just New York City. We love New York City, but no, I- These plays are very pack and play. They're very easy because they don't have an intermission. They have very simple sets. And so they're very easy to produce regionally in other markets.
00:51:32
Speaker
Yeah, and I want to say just on plays themselves, because my show kind of goes into a lot of different areas, I'm really thrilled to be able to move into those, but sometimes there's this saying about the serendipity or synchronicity of things coming together, it's just
00:51:52
Speaker
Sometimes I end up with a contact with like a form and just like one of my more recent episodes Charles Payne was a playwright just getting a play out there and talking about how they ended up putting on North Carolina where he had never been and he's an artist in residence in Madison Wisconsin and just like Just kind of come in contact with with with with plays and what's going on with that? I really want to thank you
00:52:22
Speaker
Because I know how I mean you just said that what the schedule is and what's going on and how busy you are to Kind of jump on to jump on the show and in in chat about things
Conclusion and Gratitude
00:52:34
Speaker
I really appreciate the both of you and really inspired by our chat Thank you very much. We really appreciated you inviting us to be here
00:52:44
Speaker
Yeah, it was really, it was a great dialogue. That's what's, you know, thank you for including us on your podcast. Yeah. There was great energy here going around the three of us. So yeah. And I'm sure I like the, you know, part of the thing is with me asking the questions too, which, which helps me is.
00:53:03
Speaker
whenever I'm asking the damn questions, I'm super interested in finding out what your answer is. And so I really appreciate your time. And I certainly look forward into coming in contact with your work and learning more about the emerging artists theater and learning more about the plays that are upcoming.
00:53:31
Speaker
Thanks again. And I heard that running through October 29th, was that correct on the date? Correct. Yes, October 4th through October 29th. I was going to say, Paul, right after our plays end, he's going into the New York series.
00:53:48
Speaker
Yeah, our Spark Theater Festival starts October 30th and runs till November 19th. So I'm basically at the theater for three months. I was getting to this point where I was like, well, that's a long run. And so I see somebody working hard. I was going to tell you both to have a fantastic Halloween, run around the city, do whatever. But Paul, you're going to still be busy. So fit that in if you can. I'll have a great Thanksgiving.
00:54:14
Speaker
Have a great Thanksgiving. Thank you both so much talking about plays. And for the audience that's over there in New York City, check it out live. And it's a worldwide audience on something rather than nothing.
00:54:34
Speaker
Learn learn about these plays learn about the project and say hey, I want to see this in Minneapolis I want to see this in Austin or Dublin Plug my website, which is katha.com where in addition to this there's You know my other body of works in case somebody wants to chat with me directly katha.com. Thank you and unique name, right?
00:55:01
Speaker
Yep. Paul, just one final thing. Maybe the website for the theater group. Emergingartisttheater.org. Very good. Very good. Thank you both. And heck, sounds like we had enough to talk about. Probably have to do a second installment, right? Right. Great. Well, thank you very much for having us. Thank you. Take care now. All right, you too. Thanks. OK, bye. Bye bye.
00:55:40
Speaker
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00:56:10
Speaker
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Speaker
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