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#15: I can die on that hill and make it better for somebody else.
123 Plays7 years ago
Our host, Jill James, sits down to have a conversation with Linda Martin, 2018 President of the Board of Certified Safety Processionals, chair of the Board of Certified Safety Professionals Foundation Board, and recipient of the 2018 Marion Martin Award recognizing influential women in safety. Together they talk about their shared Midwest origins and accents. Linda talks about getting started in her career as HAZWOPER was going into effect and how that moved her into a safety practice. The two also discuss feeling like they could make a difference through safety and how that led and drove her career path.
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Transcript
Introduction and Meeting Linda Martin
00:00:10
Speaker
This is the Accidental Safety Pro brought to you by Vivid Learning Systems and the Health and Safety Institute, episode number 15. My name is Jill James, Vivid's Chief Safety Officer, and today I'm joined by Linda Martin, who I recently met at a cocktail party in Houston. Linda, welcome to the show.
00:00:28
Speaker
Hi, Jill. Thank you. So what makes us want to have you on the Accidental Safety Pro when we just accidentally met at a cocktail party in Houston, our listeners might be wondering. I think.
00:00:43
Speaker
So we both happened to be attending the National Safety Council's annual conference in Houston. And Linda, you walked across the stage to receive the 2018 Marion Martin Award, recognizing influential women in safety. And I was standing in the room when you crossed the stage to get the award.
00:01:10
Speaker
And I was waiting and waiting to hear your story because I thought, this woman's got to be phenomenal. And then they just hand you the cool little thing and then you walk off and I'm like, what?
00:01:22
Speaker
I was a little confused too on stage. I didn't know what I was supposed to be doing. Yeah, it was thousands of people in the audience. Right. No worries. I got this. Right? And so it just so happened that the universe drew us back together so I could hear the rest of the story by way of a cocktail party that was being hosted by the board of certified safety professionals later that evening.
Linda Martin's Career Journey
00:01:46
Speaker
I get to walk in this tiny little room and there you are. I'm like,
00:01:49
Speaker
Yes, I might get to hear her story. Many, many stories, right? Many, many stories, and it turns out we're both from the Midwest, so we immediately bonded over our accents. Right. I'm from Wisconsin, you're from Minnesota, so it's about the same, right? It is about the same, though you might have lost a little bit of your Midwest accent living on the East Coast, no? I have, and you know what? The only time that I really kind of get it back is when I'm with
00:02:18
Speaker
people from the Midwest or talking to my mother on the phone. And then it comes back. And then it comes back with a vengeance. It's not a bad thing. No, it's not. It just makes people laugh a little bit. That's right. Yeah, especially when we say boat and soup in Minnesota. Bubbler. Exactly.
00:02:37
Speaker
So, Linda, to get into your story, I think let's back up a little bit, and I'd like to tell the audience a little bit more about you, about your credentials, because it's pretty interesting, and you've been in the practice for 28 years, and so when you're normally professionally introduced, it might not sound like, hey, this is somebody I met at a cocktail party.
00:03:05
Speaker
So let's do this. I'm going to formally introduce you and then let's tell our audience how you got into safety accidentally. So I mentioned that you have 28 years in environmental health and safety profession working in construction, general industry, and consulting.
00:03:25
Speaker
You are a certified safety professional, a certified industrial hygienist, a certified hazardous materials manager. You're also the 2018 president of the Board of Certified Safety Professionals, the chair of the Board of Certified Safety Professionals Foundation Board. And you're also the 11th editor of the National Safety Council's Supervisor Safety Manual, which was just published in summer, this summer. Additionally,
00:03:54
Speaker
When all that isn't going on, you're a full-time faculty member and online MS degree program coordinator at Keene State College Department of Safety and Occupational Health and Applied Sciences. Wow, Linda. It sounds about right. It sounds about right. Did I miss anything? Oh, you know, I try to keep busy. I guess. I think, yeah, I mean, I'm kind of a collector. I collect gigs.
00:04:24
Speaker
of the safety sort, I am always looking for an opportunity to do something else.
Turning Point in Safety Career
00:04:31
Speaker
And many of those things that you listed, they just kind of happened organically over time. And, you know, one day I kind of looked up and all of a sudden I was fully in the safety world going to cocktail parties and meeting interesting people.
00:04:48
Speaker
And it never really was my intention. Yeah. What was, what was your intention? I mean, you're a woman from Wisconsin. Um, yeah. How did, what was your intention and what was the winding road? Yeah. So, so I didn't get into safety traditionally. And I, and I think that, you know, if people listen to your podcasts, most of the people, um, that you talk to, you know, didn't come right out of school with a safety degree. Maybe some of them did. Um,
00:05:14
Speaker
But, you know, when I, when I was, I'm going to take you back to high school, when I was back in high school, um, you know, you went to the guidance counselor as a female and they said, you know, you took all the tests, right? And everybody came out with the same thing. You were either going to be a teacher or you were going to be a nurse. Um, and so that was what was presented to me when I went to college and I kind of was like, wow, okay. Well, that sounds limiting. Yeah. I've got two choices here. Um, I actually did, um,
00:05:44
Speaker
go to Winona State originally to kind of do physical therapy, which is kind of a take on the healthcare profession, and only chose it because I didn't really know what I wanted to do. I found my way into geology, which in Minnesota is kind of a big deal. It's a Winona State and U of M,
00:06:09
Speaker
They're both geology schools, great programs. And when I graduated four years later, my, I was given again, a limiting kind of, uh, outlook of, of where I could go. I could either go into the oil business, um, or environmental consulting, neither, neither, which of I wanted to do. Um, but you know, you have to make a living. Right. So I got into environmental consulting and.
00:06:37
Speaker
just kind of over time found my way to safety. One of the things that really drew me was in my first several years of consulting in the environmental industry and hazardous waste was that it was right on the front end of the has whopper standard.
Balancing Academia and Industry
00:06:53
Speaker
And so that had just come out and, and companies were scrambling to kind of protect their workers. Um, and I worked for a company that, that didn't really care about that. And so, um,
00:07:05
Speaker
When I kind of woke up five years into my career, I thought, oh my goodness, you know, look at, look at all this exposure that has happened over my first five years of my career. And I was horrified. Um, and so kind of gradually as I became like a project manager, um, moved into a safety practice, kind of fleshed that out as, as someplace that was of interest to me. Um, I felt that I could make a difference. Um, and then just, you know, it kind of intrinsically grew from there.
00:07:36
Speaker
Yeah. When you were doing that, was there anyone who planted a little seed of safety that you saw like, Oh, that's what that is? Or what did that look like back then? Or were you, were you finding it yourself? See, I was kind of finding it myself, but I, but I will say this. I, I, I worked for a while, um, early in my career, um, what is now a e-com way back in the day was, was a company called Met Caffinetti. And we were doing consulting, um, removing the airfield at Pease Air Force Base.
00:08:05
Speaker
in New Hampshire. And I had a manager, I was, I was in the field and I had a manager that said, Hey, now, uh, we're removing these 50,000 gallon storage tanks, um, from the infield of this, this airstrip. And I'd like you to run down that slope of sand, hop over, hop over this moat of water onto this concrete slab and, and hold the, um, the survey rod.
00:08:32
Speaker
for me so that I can survey the bottom of that pad. Oh my gosh. And I said, um, you know, I'm not going to do that. Um, good for you. And you're like in your early twenties, right? So I was, I was 23 or 24. And I said, yeah, I don't, that doesn't really seem safe to me. And, and, and that kind of was, was that aha moment of, you know, either somebody's going to back me here or they're not. And the safety director at the time actually,
00:08:59
Speaker
He backed me and he came out and kind of shepherded in some new order to how the field operations were going. And it really made a difference in, wow, this person had the authority to come out and also the presence to change things for the better. So I think if there was any one time that I can remember in my career, it probably was the first time that I ever said no.
00:09:29
Speaker
Now I, now I say it a lot, but I would say that that was one time. Yeah. And it likely saved your life that day. It probably did. It probably did. So, um, so, you know, when you look at some of the things that you mentioned about me, when you kind of just listed off all that stuff, most of that has happened in the last, I would say five to eight years. Um, my service on the board,
00:09:58
Speaker
my service with the foundation, several of my credentials. I think that there was a consciousness on my part around 2009 or 10 that I was just going to make safety my full-time thing because that's what really sung to me. I didn't really want to do the environmental piece anymore. I was tired of it, never really wanted to do it. Safety was something I was passionate about. I can make a difference.
00:10:28
Speaker
Yeah, and so five years ago, but backing up before that, so you stayed in that kind of environmental realm for a long time. And is that where you got into the IH stuff as well? I did. Yeah, okay. What did those next jobs look like that kind of helped you get to that point where you said in 2009, you know?
00:10:51
Speaker
Okay. New chapter. Yeah. So after, after I worked for a while with that company that I meant just mentioned, um, at Caffinetti, I kind of moved into more of a managerial role, um, so that I could, you know, develop projects, um, and develop clients. And so it gave me more freedom to kind of do the things that I wanted to do.
00:11:15
Speaker
to choose the jobs that I wanted to do and to choose my own direction. And, you know, I mean, one of those pieces was, you know, I had an early aversion to the exposure that I had in the field and it became kind of an industrial hygiene focus for my consulting. So for several years, I worked as a project manager and a senior project manager in the environmental consulting industry.
00:11:45
Speaker
Um, and you know, probably a third of my practice was, was safety consulting was IH. Um, so, and I want to say, so 2009, I started taking a lot of, a lot more courses because I thought, you know, it would be helpful if I round out, uh, some of my educational, uh, piece and I started, people will kind of chuckle at this, but I
Mentorship and Ethics in Safety
00:12:08
Speaker
started at the OSHA education Institute.
00:12:11
Speaker
Sure. One of the OTI centers. One of the OTI centers. And it was affiliated with Keene. And the more I learned, the more excited I got, the more depth my knowledge had, my practice had. And I found myself getting a master's degree in safety. And here I am now getting a PhD. And so what I'd like to say is, you know, that
00:12:39
Speaker
high school guidance counselor was kind of right in that I've come full circle now and I'm a teacher. I don't know if we want to give that much credit to that guidance counselor. Well, you know, I mean, sometimes the universe works in mysterious ways, right? And, um, you know, my, my mother and my grandmother, um, both were, were teachers. Um, my, my mother formally, my grandmother informally.
00:13:04
Speaker
And so I kind of see it as this rite of passage in my family to become a teacher of something that I really care about. So it's in your bones. It's in my bones. It's in your bones. That's pretty neat. So you teach now at the college, but you also do something in the crane industry. Do you have like a dual career track or what does that look like?
00:13:27
Speaker
You know, I do. I like I said, in around 2009, I got into safety full time as a corporate safety director. And I also did some consulting on the side. And, you know, what people will find when they get in the industry and they start networking is that, you know, somebody knows somebody who can help you with, you know, different things. And I was introduced with an operations manager at a crane company around 2014 or 15.
00:13:57
Speaker
And I did a lot of consulting for them. And it was a very familiar industry. My father comes from a construction background. And so I've been around construction workers and the construction industry all my life. And when I started doing consulting for this crane firm, I was like, wow, you know, I love safety.
00:14:18
Speaker
I love big equipment. Um, and so, and it feels like home a little bit. It feels like home a little bit. And, and so, you know, the, the more I did in the consulting realm for them, um, you know, he eventually just said, you know, you might as well just come work for us. Um, you know, which is a good thing, right? That speaks volumes about, you know, what you're doing for, for a company. And, um, so I would say, yeah, it's kind of a dual career. I mean, I, I still do a lot of work, um, for them.
00:14:48
Speaker
And, you know, I feel connected because that's kind of where my roots are. And so.
00:14:55
Speaker
It keeps you grounded. It keeps me grounded. I do it in my spare time. Wherever that is. So what is it? You're a faculty member at Keene State. What's that like for you? Or maybe if we have potential students listening who are like, hmm, there's another university because there's so few programs in the country.
00:15:22
Speaker
Tell us about what yours is like and maybe what your role is. Sure. I came to academia through a person on the board, Sherri Marcham. She's an IH. We were on the board together the first couple of years and she said, you ought to teach. She got me involved with a couple adjunct
00:15:49
Speaker
places and I've been adjuncting online for quite some time. And Keene State College is in my backyard, figuratively speaking, a couple hours away. And I became involved with them because they were putting together the first construction safety major, undergraduate major in the country.
00:16:12
Speaker
Wow, that's interesting. Right. No idea. And they, and they put together this advisory council. And, and so they asked me to kind of participate in that, um, helping kind of flesh out what, what that would look like. Um, I got to know a bunch of people there. Again, here comes the networking piece and, um, became, uh, Kind of friendly with the Dean and the department chair. And they kept asking me, when you come, when are you going to come to work for us?
Professional Development and Core Values
00:16:40
Speaker
When are you going to come to work for us? And
00:16:42
Speaker
Um, you know, a two hour drive to work. Um, yeah, it doesn't sound very appealing. Right. Yeah. But they, once they kind of hammered out this construction safety program, which went live this fall, um, they came back to me and they said, okay, um, realize you don't want to move to Keene, but, um, we're putting together this online master's program. Yeah. And we realized that that's in your wheelhouse. Um, so would you do that for us? Hmm.
00:17:11
Speaker
So that's kind of what my role is right now is I'm putting together their online masters from their existing hybrid program and teaching in their program I'm also putting together the adjunct team, doing a lot of the learning management system work.
00:17:27
Speaker
Um, it's really kind of a fulfilling it's, it's a Jane of all trades, if you want. And, um, and you're breaking ground. I mean, in, in, uh, the first construction safety focus program, that's right. Right. That's fantastic. And my, my goal for our master's program is to, to eventually have a construction safety option at the master's level.
00:17:50
Speaker
So I'm always thinking of the next best thing, get this online program going for the masters and then roll some of the construction program online. Because I guess where I see the gap right now for education is that we have a lot of people, and this goes to the theme of your show, we have a lot of people who find safety later in their careers or they become a safety professional by somebody saying this is now going to be part of your job.
00:18:20
Speaker
And when you're a working professional, it's really hard to go to a brick and mortar school and get that undergraduate degree if that's what you wish. And I see more so in the construction industry, this type of person, the type of person that normally would not have a chance to achieve their bachelor's degree.
00:18:42
Speaker
But the online school is now making that possible for them. And so wouldn't it be great if we had an online construction safety undergraduate or master's? Right. Absolutely. Absolutely. And you know, so many of us are generalists in safety because we've kind of had to do it all. Like you said, Jane of all trades. Right.
00:19:01
Speaker
And and for those of us who really want to focus on one industry or another you know like just like let's step away from general industry and focus on construction if that's where you are. That would be so powerful and getting people.
00:19:16
Speaker
I don't know if up to speed is the right word, but into their careers faster with more tools at their disposal if they're already working in the field. Well, thank you for doing that. Thanks for being a groundbreaking. That's fantastic. That's fantastic. Okay, all right. It sounds like you are. I've always got the next thing brewing in the back of my mind. I'm not so sure that my family
00:19:44
Speaker
quite likes the amount of time I spend thinking of the next thing I'm going to be doing.
00:19:49
Speaker
But I think daydreaming is a thing. I call it daydreaming. I'm always thinking about what is the next thing as well. And it means that I have lots of sticky notes with my latest, greatest ideas stuffed in all kinds of places. And a few of them rise to the top every once in a while. Mine's a little book. I keep a little book in my cab and my truck.
00:20:14
Speaker
I write down things that I'm kind of thinking of for the for either for the board certified safety professionals or the foundation or, or even kind of career wise like how can, how can I do better how can I help how can I.
00:20:29
Speaker
mentor somebody so that when I leave this field, it's better for me being there. Yeah. I don't know about you, but I also spend time figuring out as I age into this career, what are my values that drive me to that next thing? And focus on that. I recently did a values exercise through a leadership book that I'm reading.
00:20:55
Speaker
and it made you figure out what your two greatest values were.
00:21:01
Speaker
Oh, what were they? Right? It's like a list of hundreds and you have to keep narrowing it down and narrowing it down. And I narrowed it down to dignity and perseverance. The perseverance was really easy for me to pick because I know I have that. I have it in spades. It's what has always propelled me to the next thing or to get anything done in life. And the dignity piece, you know, as you're looking at all of these other words, I'm like,
00:21:30
Speaker
you know, it really goes back to dignity. I want dignity for all human beings. That's why I do the job that I do. Yeah. And so just like doing that piece has, like every time I make a decision in something career wise, I'm like, Oh yeah, that's what's driving me. I mean, I can kind of, it resonates with me, the perseverance. And I think dignity, that's pretty cool that that rose to the top. I think
00:21:58
Speaker
You know, one of the things that I think about continually in, in our field, because it's so easy to not have, um, is a sense of, of direction, professional ethics. And, and so, you know, I think out of, I mean, I don't know what was on your, on the big, long list, but, but ethics usually rises to the top for me because I feel like, um, you know, with all these regulations and nobody really watching over your shoulder every day.
00:22:27
Speaker
you know, what guides you to do the right thing and to not accept any different from your employees or your coworkers.
00:22:35
Speaker
right that's that's funny that you say that my i had my son do the same exercise with me because i was just curious he's 16 years old and ethics was his and i'm like oh yeah that makes so much sense for you he's been this tireless advocate for people if he felt somebody was being wronged for some reason since he was in kindergarten
00:22:57
Speaker
you know he'd like he'd like march kids to the principal's office with a group of people and say hey somebody's making fun of so-and-so at the lunch table they're not our friend but it's still not right
00:23:10
Speaker
Okay. Wow, that's good parenting. Good parenting. Thank you. And Perseverance was his second one because he is a lot like his mother. But you brought up this great point about ethics in our business, in our practice. What do you think that looks like, particularly as you have an opportunity, you've been in the field for a long time. What does that look like to you? I mean, I think it...
00:23:39
Speaker
It kind of envelops the sense of right and wrong, right? What does it look like in the field? I would say it's doing the right thing when nobody's watching, like I said. It's choosing the right course of action, even though it's hard and speaking up. I mean, I think a lot of times in our career field,
00:24:06
Speaker
You can get into a situation where an employer doesn't want you to speak up. You're just that person there that they trot out if they need you. Yes. And I'm sure that rings true for a lot of your listeners. They want safety, but they want safety to be silent. And so I think a strong sense of professional ethics pushes us to always speak up not only for the workers, but for the overall good of
00:24:36
Speaker
the world, if you will, the whole workplace. I call it the hill worth dying on. I imagine this hill or a line in my head when faced with something that, because you know when you're in that moment because your gut is telling you something and you're starting to get nervous or twitchy or however people know they're in that moment. I really try to pay attention to that and ask myself, okay, is this the hill?
00:25:06
Speaker
And then if it is, then I'm going to dig in and persevere. And if it's not, and that's by way of like, you know, risk management, what is this about? Is there a business decision to be made here? Somebody's life on the line, you know, all that stuff that we go through as a safety professional and then decide how to execute. Well, I think as we age into our careers, we, we intuitively know that. I mean, you're probably asking all those questions in a split second. Yeah.
00:25:33
Speaker
Um, what I will say is, you know, early in my career, I probably was more silent than I am now. And I think that's, you know, one of the benefits of being 28 years in the profession or more is that, um, you know, your value, um, you have a sense of, you know, maybe this is the hill worth dying on because I can get another job, right? It's more important to speak up. And so what I,
00:26:01
Speaker
What I see more is on the younger edge end of the spectrum, where people early in their careers, they don't really have that luxury a lot of the time. Because they need a paycheck. They need a paycheck. And we all need a paycheck. But one of the things I think that benefits me as I've gotten older and more years in the field is that I can die on that hill.
00:26:27
Speaker
and maybe make it better for somebody else coming along behind me, and that's fine. Yeah, and be okay with that, right. You know, I think, yeah, let's talk a little bit about what that was like early in a career. You know,
Family's Role in Safety Awareness
00:26:40
Speaker
you and I both started in safety in our 20s, and we're women, and it sounds like your path often led you to being in more,
00:26:53
Speaker
Not only are women continuing to be a minority in our field, but the fields where you were working were also pretty male dominated in construction trades and a lot of that environmental piece. What did that look like for you in terms of how did you find your voice and build into that? I've always had a voice, Jill.
00:27:17
Speaker
But I will say... I got that joke. Yeah, I've always had a voice. Sorry, a little slow on me there. So one of the things that I've kind of prided myself on is that, you know, I don't like kind of plying my craft, if that's the right way to say it.
00:27:40
Speaker
And maybe this is the wrong way to say it too, by pulling the woman card, by either having men do what I want in the field because it's a female asking or change their behavior because I'm one of the guys. I think I've prided myself more on building a base rapport and that entails
00:28:07
Speaker
Well, first of all, you know, some of the older men that are in construction, um, and this kind of generates itself as new people come in, they see safety as here comes a safety cop. She's going to tell me to put my hard hat on and I'm going to chuckle about it. And then when she leaves, I'm going to, you know, I'm going to, I'm going to do whatever I want. Just, just, you know, play cater. Um, but, um, to actually kind of come in and say, listen,
00:28:36
Speaker
you know, I'm not here to do that. I'm here to, to try to help you do a task better. And, and number one, I want to hear why you're doing it the way you are, because sometimes that's important. Yeah. So, you know, that, that gives them a sense of empowerment that, that they're part of the, part of the process, but also not to be that person that comes in and is, you know, barking orders or be the know it all, um, safety cop, safety cop, right. Um,
00:29:03
Speaker
You know, and, and the other thing is, is that, um, when people see you as the same and, and by the same, I mean, you know, we all have the same concerns, right? I want to do my job and, and I want to do my job because I make money and I can support my family. And you know, I, I love the weekends. Um, I love to get that, get to the weekends. I love it when it's five o'clock and I get to go home and, and hold my daughters on my lap. And so when you build that,
00:29:32
Speaker
sense of, hey, we're all the same. And I care that you have that same ability as I do to go home at night. I think it goes a long way. And I never, at least in my professional practice, I never have had a problem with working with a bunch of guys. And that's not to say that that it's not difficult. It has been very difficult over the years. You know, if I was to give some advice to women, I would say, you know,
00:30:02
Speaker
Come in and show your sameness. You have the same, same values and same concerns. Listen a lot, right? These guys have been in the field for, you know, some of them 30 plus years. And they do things because they've learned to adapt their tasks over a set amount of time. And just because they're doing something, not the way that you would do it, it doesn't mean that it's wrong. And it doesn't mean that it's not safe. It might not be as safe as it could be.
00:30:31
Speaker
But that's the listening part allows you to get to the point where you can have a conversation about making something safer or maybe having a compromise.
00:30:44
Speaker
Yeah, I think that's a powerful message for anyone young starting in their career, and particularly for us as women as well, is to find the sameness. That's a perfect place to start, and then continue building your rapport. And I think what you said about, you know, tell me about your job,
00:31:04
Speaker
I might call that tribal knowledge. And if you're standing next to a crane operator, or last week I was standing next to a man who was teaching me about a new pipe threader. And I'm like, okay, tell me about the pipe threader. You're in the electrical trades, this is what you use, this is your tool every day, this is something new, they change some things on it, tell me about it, teach me.
00:31:33
Speaker
so that I can view it through my safety lens, but you're the expert on this particular thing. Tell me how you do it. And it kind of levels, I think when you find the sameness, like you said, and then ask people to teach you about what they're excellent at and where their expertise is, it kind of breaks down barriers and walls. Like, okay, I'm smart and it's not the safety cop coming in who's gonna tell me how everything's wrong. You know, you're listening.
00:32:01
Speaker
And, and you know what, I think that's a really good, good story, Jill. I mean, allow yourself to get excited about a pipe threader. Yeah. Right. And, and, you know, allow yourself to get excited about how a crane set gets set up or how lift plans get done. And if you're not excited about that, then find the area of expertise and safety. If safety is your passion, find that area so that when somebody talks about their job, their excitement builds your excitement and you work together to do it better.
00:32:32
Speaker
Um, so, you know, I mean, allow yourself to get excited about the pipe. Yeah. It's true. It's true. And I did actually, did you like, did you kind of after that interaction kind of like sit back and go, wow, that's pretty cool. I did. Yeah, I did. You know, and, and, and they, they can feel that somebody who's excited about the pipe for thread or they can feel.
00:32:58
Speaker
your excitement and when they can feel your excitement for what they do and see that light of understanding.
00:33:05
Speaker
That's your window. That's your window to make a difference in how they perform their work. Yeah. You're so right. And I think about the various trades and jobs. And some jobs got me more excited and interested in others, particularly backhoe operators. Backhoe operators amaze me because they have this giant, giant equipment. And they're operating it as if they're picking up a paperclip off a tabletop.
00:33:34
Speaker
and they do it they do it this precision and just to watch them do that or crane operator making a pic i was just gonna say that it's the same sort of zen feeling of zen accomplishment of of a task
Educational Initiatives and Future Vision
00:33:49
Speaker
Yeah, so every time I was standing on the edge, not on the edge, near an excavation with my job with OSHA, I'd just be in amazement at these operators and be like, wow, I don't think I could ever do that. Or maybe I could, but it's just, yeah, their work always amazed me. And then it just made me ask more questions like, how did you learn that? And you know what, that goes a long way too. I mean, when you pay homage to the fact that they
00:34:18
Speaker
are doing something with such ease. It's not uncommon for me to pull somebody out of the cab and say, that was amazing.
00:34:30
Speaker
I could never do that. Like, how do you do that? How do you learn that? And, and, you know, they kind of think, you know, wait a second. I'm amazing. Right? Yeah. And yes, you are. Yes, you are. Right. And I'm not, I don't know if it's emotional intelligence that leads me to say stuff like that or, you know, like that youthful kind of naivete. But I don't, I don't pull back
00:34:56
Speaker
on praise when praise is due and I think that also goes a long way in being a safety professional and changing minds about who you are and what your intent is.
00:35:08
Speaker
Well, and it leads to authentic conversations that you can have with people to then let them not view you as the safety cup, but someone who really authentically cares for their wellbeing and them going home to our shared sameness, right? Right, right. So you had mentioned the board of certified safety professionals earlier, and I'm wondering maybe since you're in the role as the current president,
00:35:36
Speaker
Share with the audience a little bit about the board and maybe some opportunities that other safety professionals listening may not know about, something they can be taking advantage of or helping them shape their career. As with everything else, the board was something that I kind of fell into.
00:35:52
Speaker
happen on a day that I probably didn't have a whole lot to do. And, you know, they send out that, that call for volunteers to be on the board. And I thought, yeah, I can do this. You know, so, so there's the first takeaway is never think that, you know, they're not talking to you. You should approach everything. Every request is if, oh, they're talking to me. They want me to be on the board. I'll, you know, I'll do this. Sure. And, um, you know, it was a surprise to get on, but it's been a real, a real neat learning experience in that I learned about, um, the value of certification, which is, which is what the board
00:36:21
Speaker
does. So I would say, you know, being on the board is probably solidified the fact that I feel I feel that there's a necessity for people in our profession to show their competence. And to, you know, if you look at any of the salary surveys, and those types of things that that certification raises you up in your career, so that that would be the first takeaway, or the second takeaway, because I really do think that when you know, when you get these newsletters from the things you belong
00:36:49
Speaker
to like ASSP or NSC or the board of certified safety professionals, when they ask for help, they mean it. And they're talking to you. And the only way to get more of those reach outs and more of that ability to kind of find things that enrich your career is to do one or two of them, right? Because the more people you come in contact with, the more opportunities that
00:37:15
Speaker
that appear. So it kind of has a cascading effect. I'm coming into, I don't know how much of a secret this is, I've been elected to a second term for the Board of Certified Safety Professionals presidency. And I'm really looking forward to coming into our, they've been around 50 years. So we're having a lot of 50 year celebration type things. We've just started the foundation, which
00:37:45
Speaker
I've been super excited about since the board started talking about it several years ago, um, because we're having the ability to make a difference in, in realms that aren't certification based, um, in the youth safety realm, which I think we can all agree is an important area, professional development and, and, you know, creating more research around how we do our jobs. Um, and you know, what, you know, what are the new things coming out and how do we deal with them?
00:38:12
Speaker
Um, so, you know, the foundation is, you know, to me is really kind of a thrilling piece of, of my board work. Yeah. Well, I want to hear more about youth safety at some point too, but you had mentioned, um, mentorship and paying attention to mentorship and you and I, at some point in our conversations, I don't remember if it was at the cocktail party or not.
00:38:36
Speaker
We're talking about how do we fill the female pipeline for our industry and encourage more women to go into what I think we both feel is a STEM field. And how do some of these roles and board positions and the foundation work, how do you see that helping us to fill that female pipeline and what should we be doing as
00:39:04
Speaker
as fellow women to help fill it. So I'm not a fan of filling the quota as it were. I think that when you start looking for who's going to be next in the field, it's more about getting the word out and encouraging women in high school as they move into college that this is a really cool career field, which is part of
00:39:32
Speaker
you know, some of the youth safety, it's, it's some of the board of certified safety professionals mission. It's in the ASSP and the NSC mission to get more people into the field. Um, but as women in the field, we have to be more active in really giving opportunities, uh, to people that we've, we see have potential. Um, you know, I think as we get busier and busier,
00:39:58
Speaker
as we get farther along in our careers, it's easy to say I don't have the time. But it's important to pick up the phone. It's important to encourage young women that you see on LinkedIn or at these mixers that you go to for ASSP or NSC, that you encourage them to reach out to you and then actively look for opportunities for them to get involved, whether it's
00:40:26
Speaker
bring them along to something, whether it's, you know, make some introductions, at least from my end of things, I say, you know, what would it have been like if somebody didn't pick up the phone when, when I needed that reach out? And so I always pick up the phone, unless I'm busy, but I pick up the phone and I call people back. And if people ask, um, I think that it's incumbent upon us to, to give them the best of, of what we know, the best of us.
00:40:56
Speaker
And so I don't know if that speaks directly to women, it speaks to men anyway. Yeah, right. Any mentorship and the farther we get in our careers and the easier it is for us to be busy or clouded over, it's easy for us to say, hey, call me anytime. But sometimes it really takes us to do that, reach out back to someone who's maybe just getting started in their career because they may be thinking, well, they're really busy.
00:41:23
Speaker
you know like can I they said they said that but was that really the case yeah and uh and so sometimes I think I think part of the mentorship is to be the initiator right um right as well yeah I think and it I think it also you know once you are the initiator and they see that you're going to follow through um because follow through is another big thing with mentoring um it just snowballs upon itself you know I mean I think I see this with my students a lot I say you know
00:41:52
Speaker
here's my cell phone, call me. Maybe that's not the best way to do it, but I say that and the first person calls me and I actually pick up. Then I see kind of this onrush of people calling me and it's kind of like they all talk to each other and they say, hey, she's going to pick up. She's going to listen. I might give good advice. I don't take people's advice, but I give good advice. So give me a ring. Same ring. That's excellent. That's excellent.
00:42:22
Speaker
I don't know if that answered your question. It did. I think it's an encouragement for all of us to really do some navel gazing and figure out how can we be mentoring to fill the pipeline for safety professionals because we know that there's not a lot of us out there and it's incumbent on us to keep the profession going and to continue sending people home safe.
00:42:46
Speaker
Well, and I also think part of that too is, you know, if you think about what you want the profession to look like after you're gone, and you see where the thought leadership is right now, how do you reach the most potential practitioners, young practitioners? And for me, the answer was teaching.
00:43:08
Speaker
I have it and staying active in the field, right? Because I think that there's, there's somewhat of a disconnect with a lot of programs that, you know, instructors get in 10, 12, 15 years. And they're talking about practice back in the 1980s. Right. You have to stay current. So, so stay current. But for me, it was, I can reach the most people in the most effective and thoughtful way.
00:43:32
Speaker
by becoming an academic part-time or full-time. Right, and you're still able to do your work with, like you said, with the crane company that you work for to keep you current. It's why I so much appreciate being able to get into the field now in my position. I'm not a working safety professional as I had been in my last job, but like I said, last week I was standing with a guy in a pipe threader, but I was also at
Balancing Work and Family
00:44:02
Speaker
a sugar beet processing plant for three days and practicing my safety skills and seeing new things and ways that the safety director at that facility was doing things and it keeps me sharp in my practice and I think it's so important that we don't get outmoded. I was just going to say and you have a platform here to take those things that you're learning and send them out to the
00:44:27
Speaker
the general population. So that's cool. Yeah. Yeah. Thank you. So we didn't, we didn't talk about family, but I often ask in this podcast because we're safety professionals. What does home life, safety life, friend's life when, you know, like, yeah. So I work, I work a lot. I work a lot. Um, but I have a very, um, understanding wife and, um, I have two little, two little girls, six and three.
00:44:56
Speaker
And so for me, I mean, I think that there has to be work-life balance. I know that's a trite, trite phrase, but I have a tendency to say yes to a lot of things professionally, and then consult my wife later. And she's very gracious in letting me do that. But as my time fills, I think the takeaway is that you have to find a way to recharge. Yeah.
00:45:24
Speaker
And, you know, especially if you have a three year old and a six year old, you know, you, you need, you need those batteries ready to go by the weekend. Um, you know, so I, I will say that I have some work life balance, but I'm also, you know, I'm at the point of my career where all these great things are appearing, um, because they've snowballed and it's hard to say no, it's hard to
00:45:47
Speaker
It's hard to say no to an extra year on the board. It's hard to say no to somebody asking you to do a podcast. Thank you. I think it's important because if you get that platform to make things better or to make a difference that I feel compelled to go with that and I have great support at home to do it.
00:46:12
Speaker
Yeah. And you're saying yes to your value system, it sounds like. Right. And yeah, that's excellent. So has your six year old caught onto any, any safety practice? I know, right? I'm thinking, I'm thinking about my son asking me, mom, what's our safety plan when he was really little? So what does it look like in your house? So, so recently I want to say like in the last six months, she's had this awareness
00:46:36
Speaker
that I'm this, she calls me the safety person. She said, you're the safety person, right? And then she calls me memes. You're the safety person memes. And I'm like, yep. And she'll, we'll be walking around somewhere and she'll say, that doesn't look very safe, does it memes? And you know, my wife does the same thing. It's really interesting. You know, I'll be standing in the line. I would probably two years ago now I was standing in line at Walmart at Christmas time.
00:47:02
Speaker
And my wife was standing looking back into the Christmas section and she's going, under her breast, she's going, turn around, turn around, turn around. And I turned around and there was somebody getting a box, an employee getting a box off the top, top shelf of that shelving in the Christmas decorations area. And she was outside of the lift, outside with one foot on the lift and one foot on the
00:47:32
Speaker
on the actual shelf and the thing was wobbling. And, you know, my, it kind of warms my heart, not that this employee was doing this, but that my wife and my family have now kind of adopted that same sort of, Hey, that's not right. And, you know, actually will point it out to me. And, you know, me, I went over and said, said something. Yeah. Yeah. I said something emailed Walmart, you know, did all those things that I'm supposed to do as the safety person. But, you know,
00:48:01
Speaker
It was kind of heartwarming when my daughter finally realized that this is what I do for work and it was important. I'm keeping people safe. My son has called me the safety mom. The safety mom. Yeah, forever. And then maybe brace yourself when they get to be teenagers. At least this has been my experience. He finds it a bit annoying and he calls me worst case scenario mom.
00:48:31
Speaker
I am always the one that's saying, get down off the couch and don't jump on that. I don't like how you're doing that. Sometimes it makes me look bad, but they'll thank me for it when they're walking around upright. Yeah, right. Exactly. My son's like, mom, you just take every story and you can tell me how I can kill myself. Go horribly wrong.
00:48:55
Speaker
And he's like, you should just like chill out. I said, oh, it's not my job to chill out with you. You know, I think in this profession, you can't turn it off. No, you just that's the thing. You can't. Yeah. Yeah, you can't. It's it's it's not in our kids are just going to have to deal with it because I guess there's a lot worse we could be doing. Right. Right. Right.
00:49:20
Speaker
Oh, man. Well, before we round out our time together today, Linda, is is there is there anything you'd like to share with with the listeners? Maybe somebody just getting started or maybe someone who's maybe even a little stuck in our career right now. You know, as I said before, I think part of the hesitancy with people getting either getting into our field or finding a leg up is that they don't think
00:49:46
Speaker
when these reach outs come out that the people are talking to them. And I think have the confidence to say, you know, I want to participate and, you know, even if I give a little bit, I'm going to try to add value here. And if these leaders in the industry that are involved in these activities see that, they will take an interest.
Advice for Young Safety Professionals
00:50:07
Speaker
I mean, I take an interest. If somebody wants to learn, then I'm here to teach. And so, you know, if you're stuck
00:50:14
Speaker
you know, there's certification, there's the OTI, there's higher education that's accessible online now. If you're passionate about safety, there are avenues to make your knowledge base better, to get involved. And, you know, again, I'm kind of Pollyanna, because I'm always that person that's, you know, glass half full. You know, see everything that happens in your career as a learning experience.
00:50:42
Speaker
you know, I mean, at least you learn you don't want to do that again, or you don't want to get in that situation again. And if you can change your mindset, and I'm kind of getting into the realm of of that, that coaching, but if you can change your mindset into into feeling and knowing that everything happens for a reason, and that, you know, somewhere in the back of your mind, you're destined, you're destined to make a difference.
00:51:07
Speaker
good things will happen. Your career will advance, you know, reach out. Um, I don't know. Yeah. What is this here to teach me? What is this here to teach me? Yeah. Yeah. Instead of why, why me, why this challenge, but I've been there, but I'm telling you, don't say why me say, what can I do with this?
00:51:26
Speaker
Right. Wonderful. Wonderful. Thank you so much, Linda, for being a guest on the podcast. And again, congratulations on the Mary and Martin Award. And I'm so happy that we met accidentally at a cocktail party. Maybe we'll meet up more cocktail parties. That'd be fantastic. That would be fantastic.
00:51:47
Speaker
Oh, and thank you all so much for joining in and listening today. And thank you all for the work that you do to make sure your workers go home safe every day. You can listen to all of our podcast episodes at vividlearningsystems.com, or subscribe in the podcast player of your choosing. If you have a suggestion for a guest, including if it's yourself, please contact me at social at vividlearningsystems.com. Until next time, thanks for listening.