Transcript
Speaker: Welcome to Arranging Tangerines, presented by Lady and Stater.
Speaker: Conversations with contemporary artists, curators, and thinkers about the intersection of art, technology, and commerce.
Speaker: Your hosts are me, Alessandro Silver and Joseph Wilcox.
Speaker: I don't know what to do.
Speaker: I don't know what to say.
Speaker: I just know I don't want to be like you.
Speaker: I don't know what to do.
Speaker: I don't know what to say.
Speaker: I just know I don't want to be like you.
Speaker: This week's guest is Maria Gabler.
Speaker: I don't want to make you nervous.
Speaker: It's just audio.
Speaker: You know what though?
Speaker: I heard recently that audio is the most intimate medium ever invented.
Speaker: But it's like someone talking to you.
Speaker: It's a little bit more intimate than TV.
Speaker: Yeah, probably.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Because, yeah, probably if there were a camera here, I will be even more nervous than now.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: So only audio.
Speaker: We're lucky enough to be talking to Maria Gabler at her solo show here at Proxico in Lower East Side Manhattan.
Speaker: Congratulations.
Speaker: Thank you.
Speaker: Can you tell us a little bit about the show?
Speaker: The show is called Drama, which is a Spanish word.
Speaker: It's interesting for me because drama in Spanish have like two different meanings.
Speaker: It's like the threads in a, how you say, in a fabric, like the horizontal threads are the drama.
Speaker: And also drama is like the plot of a story.
Speaker: So I like that relation and the relations that you can make.
Speaker: with that word, with my work, which is not really evident, but you can start thinking about other things because of it.
Speaker: So I like that.
Speaker: The exhibition...
Speaker: Maybe you can divide it in three parts, but I think that they are all part of one work.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: They are not like separate works for me.
Speaker: But the first part is this space that is surrounded by a mesh, which is the kind of knitting that they use in the scaffolding in the city.
Speaker: this black knitting with orange stripes.
Speaker: And inside the space that is limited by this mesh, there is a model of the gallery space.
Speaker: And this model, I didn't do it.
Speaker: It was made by another artist and is actually the model that they have in the gallery to lend to the artist to plan their work.
Speaker: So it has been here for a while in the gallery, like...
Speaker: being hand by hand of different artists using it.
Speaker: And that's like the first part of the exhibition.
Speaker: So you can see this model from the outside of the gallery, from the street through the window.
Speaker: And inside you have this view of the model through the match.
Speaker: So you can't really see it
Speaker: directly.
Speaker: If you want to see it, you have to go out of the gallery, but then you are out of the gallery, so you can't see it again directly.
Speaker: And then the match also obliged the viewers to go through a little narrow space in the gallery.
Speaker: so it's a little uncomfortable maybe I don't know if that's the best word but
Speaker: Yeah, it's like a narrow space and you have to go through it if you want to see the rest of the exhibition.
Speaker: So you have to be really near the match, which is something that you usually see not that near.
Speaker: It's something that you in the city see always like very far away or if it is close to you, you don't want to be close to it.
Speaker: Then in the second area of the gallery you have a video.
Speaker: Maybe we can walk away.
Speaker: Let's do it.
Speaker: So then you have a video and also an object.
Speaker: This object was made with wood, with plywood.
Speaker: And it's again like a model of the shape of the gallery.
Speaker: and that model I put inside of it asphalt, these little stones of asphalt that you see in the streets that they use to fix the potholes.
Speaker: and the video what it shows is this model filled with the asphalt and how the asphalt came out of the model and collapsed and then you have the empty space of this gallery shape and
Speaker: And yeah, you have in the opposite world, this empty shape made in plywood.
Speaker: And in this, like the third part maybe, is a little picture of the...
Speaker: of the model, the original model, in the subway.
Speaker: And this picture was taken when I took the model from the gallery and I took it to my studio.
Speaker: So I think
Speaker: Everything started maybe at that point when I took this thing and put it into the street, like outside the gallery space and realized that it was an interesting object, like the shape.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: So that's the picture.
Speaker: And oh, there is also this little piece there, which is, it was like the tool that I use
Speaker: in the process of the asphalt, like filling the model with the asphalt.
Speaker: So it's like a little piece of wood that have like a stick in it, all the rest of asphalt.
Speaker: So I liked the idea of having this little object that you don't know where it comes from, but at the same time it makes you feel that it has some relation with the other parts of the work.
Speaker: So you start thinking about what is this and why is it here?
Speaker: why it's so important to be here.
Speaker: Yeah, I think that's all.
Speaker: Well, thank you for that.
Speaker: I have some questions, if you don't mind.
Speaker: Questions?
Speaker: Questions?
Speaker: Yes.
Speaker: If we can move over here.
Speaker: So I know from talking to you in previous materials, from building materials and from construction, it's very important to you because there are
Speaker: I think you said they allude to being open.
Speaker: You can recycle them afterwards.
Speaker: You can, it's almost like, uh, I don't know.
Speaker: When I, when I see, when I see construction sites, I don't know if they're going up or coming down.
Speaker: Like they look like ruins at the same time as they're being built.
Speaker: Um, and then this mesh
Speaker: signifies danger, like you were saying, like keep away, but it's also keeping you from accessing the model in the middle.
Speaker: Almost like a, I don't know, some strange, I almost got like a strange, like mausoleum, like almost like a cemetery or something like, I don't know, but if you could talk a little bit more about your process about coming up with this.
Speaker: Well, I think the decision of using the match was related with what I saw in the city, like to be always seeing all these buildings,
Speaker: like with the match that didn't allow me to actually see the building.
Speaker: So I was really impressed by that.
Speaker: or maybe shocked, like, I want to see this building, but I can't see it because it is always with this thing.
Speaker: So I was very interested in that.
Speaker: I even started to read a little bit about it, and it's a big issue, the thing of the scaffolding here in New York.
Speaker: So, yeah, it's like all of the things that you can relate with that.
Speaker: It's interesting that the fact that you have buildings that have been with scaffolding for years, like five, ten years, because it's cheaper to keep them in that way than fix them.
Speaker: So it's...
Speaker: It's kind of, it's something that you can relate with other things out of the art world, but also with things in the art world.
Speaker: Like, yeah.
Speaker: I also, the model, it's funny, and I know...
Speaker: you're probably well aware of this, but the fact that it's a model of the space laying down, but when sitting up, it looks like a structure signifying like a building or something.
Speaker: So it's like, it's almost doubles as floor plan and like a skyscraper as well.
Speaker: Yeah, it's interesting that some people have told me that it seems like the new museum.
Speaker: So it's really funny.
Speaker: You have this shape that you can think about it like a building.
Speaker: Also, it has something beautiful, like you can see it and think it's like an abstract
Speaker: So I think that's something that was interesting for me too.
Speaker: The fact that it wasn't that evident that it was a model.
Speaker: Also, that it's not really obvious when you see it that it's the model of the gallery.
Speaker: because the shape is so like, how you say, like tricky in some way, that when you are inside of the space of the gallery, you don't see it in that way.
Speaker: Like you don't think it's that shape, that weird shape.
Speaker: So the fact that you at some point of seeing the exhibition
Speaker: realize that the model is actually the model of the gallery is something that is interesting to me too.
Speaker: Yeah, because it gives you a different relationship to walking into the space once you realize that this is the shape.
Speaker: Yeah, in the opening, some people had to go out the gallery and see it again.
Speaker: Like, oh, really?
Speaker: It's the space of the gallery.
Speaker: So now I see it in a different way.
Speaker: And I think that is something...
Speaker: in my work that I have been working on, like the possibility of seeing the space in a different perspective or having a different experience of the space.
Speaker: So, yeah.
Speaker: Yeah, having seen a lot of your work previously, you do have a penchant for finding a small detail, the overlooked detail that maybe a lot of people don't think about.
Speaker: And then just focusing on that and that opens up a whole new kind of like dialogue, whether it be the space or the history of the actual site.
Speaker: But yeah, it's one of the more enjoyable aspects of seeing your work.
Speaker: Thank you.
Speaker: And what about the video?
Speaker: How long is it?
Speaker: It's like 12 minutes, I think.
Speaker: And the thing is that it has a special rhythm, maybe.
Speaker: So at the beginning, you might think that is a picture.
Speaker: It's like you don't even notice that.
Speaker: There is movement there.
Speaker: Just like now you saw a little stone fall.
Speaker: But it's like, really?
Speaker: That happens?
Speaker: And then at some point the whole thing collapses and falls.
Speaker: And that part is very quickly.
Speaker: So those 12 minutes are very different.
Speaker: like it's it's a long video maybe but it's very different in in every minute of it i think was this shot in your studio yes yes
Speaker: And did you do it multiple times or was it the one time?
Speaker: Yeah, I think I made, I don't know, almost 10 videos.
Speaker: It was difficult to choose one and to have the result that I was hoping because...
Speaker: Each one was very different.
Speaker: And I started to realize that the way I feel the model have a big...
Speaker: a big impact in the way that the thing collapsed.
Speaker: So, yeah, it was very experimental, I think.
Speaker: That is something very new for me because I think I am not that experimental.
Speaker: So you think.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: with materials.
Speaker: It's not something that I usually do.
Speaker: So I like that it's something new for me and I think that is related with the fact that I have a studio here which is something new for me too.
Speaker: Like before all of this, I have never had a studio.
Speaker: So I think that's why this exhibition is a little bit different from the other exhibitions that I have made in the past.
Speaker: So it gave you more room to experiment, having that space to kind of just play around with?
Speaker: Yeah, it was more like I felt of light to do something in the studio.
Speaker: I usually work in my computer a lot, like making the digital models of my projects.
Speaker: And here in the studio, it was like, okay, I have all this space and resources.
Speaker: I should do something with it.
Speaker: So I started to, I don't know, play a little experiment with different materials that I found here, like the asphalt, which is something that in Chile we don't have this kind of stones of asphalt to fix the streets.
Speaker: You can see it, but in a very industrial way, it's not something that you can buy in the store like a natural person.
Speaker: So this work started with a bag of this material that I found in the door of the...
Speaker: of the studios, like it was there.
Speaker: Um, so it was like a founded material, um, as the model too, it was like kind of founded thing.
Speaker: It's funny that you were drawn, but this video is awesome.
Speaker: Um, it really does contextualize the whole, um, show.
Speaker: But it's funny that you're drawn to asphalt and we talked about Robert Smithson and how he thought that asphalt was like the most perfect material, like driving on a highway that's not finished was like the best artwork he could ever had imagined.
Speaker: I remember we talked about it.
Speaker: Yeah, yeah.
Speaker: I forgot that.
Speaker: But yeah, it's true.
Speaker: The material is amazing.
Speaker: The smell of it, what it's made out of, the use.
Speaker: And it's funny that I just think it's just, I assumed it was all over the place, but you said it does not, there's nothing in Chile.
Speaker: They don't use asphalt for the roads.
Speaker: They use it, but as I told you, it's like a very industrial way.
Speaker: It's not something that... Here, it's like you can buy it in Home Depot.
Speaker: Got it.
Speaker: Like, for your house to fix the entry for your car.
Speaker: And in Chile, that's... I think that doesn't exist.
Speaker: It's like, no, very unusual.
Speaker: You see, like, in big roads, like...
Speaker: like a specialized thing, but not something that you can have in your studio or in your house.
Speaker: So, yeah.
Speaker: And it's...
Speaker: I like that it's in some way it's an awful material, like something very toxic and it came from an industry that it is related with like pollution and
Speaker: Yeah, so I liked that and the fact that you can use it in this case.
Speaker: I reused it so many times, so I was able to feel the model again and again.
Speaker: it keep working because it was always sticky.
Speaker: It's like it never ends.
Speaker: I don't know.
Speaker: Unless you apply heat and weight to it, right?
Speaker: When they do the, they roll over it with the trucks.
Speaker: Yeah, actually this one, this material, you can use it as it is, like just putting pressure on it.
Speaker: So if I wanted to keep it in that shape,
Speaker: I think I should pressure it more and more until the point that is really, how you say, compacted.
Speaker: And then it probably will remain more time with the shape.
Speaker: But it's like, it seems that you always can like use it again, even in the streets.
Speaker: You can see, I saw the other day, like these workers, like, how you say, like,
Speaker: taking off, like, yeah, like removing the, the asphalt and you see it and it was like the same that I have in my bag.
Speaker: So, so yeah, I like that, that idea of the, that you can use it over and over again.
Speaker: And it's like, it will, it will be always the same.
Speaker: It's like you, you can get rid of it.
Speaker: It's,
Speaker: every time you did it did it pour out similarly or did it go faster or like in the different tries that I it was always different because it depends on the way I pressure the material into the into the model so I started like
Speaker: experimenting with that.
Speaker: Like...
Speaker: different ways to put the thing and see what happens.
Speaker: Yeah, because I liked the idea of having these different rhythms, like at the beginning this very calm, quiet thing and then the collapsing.
Speaker: And then you have again this part which is again very calm, it's like you almost
Speaker: can't see any movement, but if you get a little closer, you can see that they are always moving in a very slow way because they have this sticky thing, all these stones, so they are moving in slow motion.
Speaker: Yeah, that was part of the experimentation, I think.
Speaker: It was also very smart to the angle that you shot it at and the way it's the emptiness in the background, it alludes again to architecture and horizons and looks kind of bluish in the back.
Speaker: It kind of looks like, like sky.
Speaker: I didn't think about that actually.
Speaker: It's interesting.
Speaker: Yes.
Speaker: And also, I can't help but think of Andy Warhol's Empire, the 24 hours, just watching the Empire State Building for 24 hours.
Speaker: No, I didn't know about that work.
Speaker: No.
Speaker: But I will see it.
Speaker: I'll send you a link.
Speaker: But I mean, there's also a tinge of Roger Brown, the Chicago painter that I'll show you as well.
Speaker: But again, the idea of entropy of this thing is together and then just will collapse is recurrent, I think, in your work.
Speaker: Do you think?
Speaker: Whether it's with the materials that you use or the temporary,
Speaker: Yeah, maybe.
Speaker: I didn't think about that in that way.
Speaker: But yeah, I really like the thing that
Speaker: the temporary character of the work, like you know that it is going to be dismantled at some point that you will never do it again in the same way.
Speaker: So it's part of the...
Speaker: my interest for site-specific things, like they are done for this place, so when they are finished, you can't do it like redoing them, remake them in another place.
Speaker: So this temporary tea, is that a word?
Speaker: It is, no?
Speaker: It's interesting for me.
Speaker: So yeah, maybe it has something to do with the video.
Speaker: I didn't think
Speaker: it in that way, but maybe you're right.
Speaker: I mean, I also, if you ever want to, this could easily be an NFT as far as like a way of dispersion for it to be dispersed to a wider audience because it's a, the video itself is enthralling.
Speaker: And we in particular love long format art videos for that particular space.
Speaker: Yeah, it's weird for me because I think the video as something for this space because I liked that relation with the space, like the gallery shape into the gallery shape, like.
Speaker: this work that refers to itself in some way.
Speaker: So it would be weird for me to have it like outside of the space, but maybe someone like it.
Speaker: No, contextually, it does work very well in space, obviously.
Speaker: Even the wood floor corresponding with the way that it was placed on the floor.
Speaker: And it kind of like almost a continuation of the flooring, which I'm sure was purposeful.
Speaker: No, it wasn't.
Speaker: The thing that I...
Speaker: I thought about the idea of putting it in the corner of the space and like in the most far point to the entry of the space.
Speaker: It's like the last thing you are going to see.
Speaker: I think that that was the decision.
Speaker: of it.
Speaker: But yeah, you're right.
Speaker: You have some continuity between the floor of the gallery and the floor in the video and it looks nice.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: As far as the photograph over here of the actual model on the train,
Speaker: I know it's New York City and I've seen so many different objects brought on the train that you would never think, like couches.
Speaker: Did anybody say anything or was there any kind of reaction?
Speaker: No, it was like you can see in the picture, like people looking with some curiosity or like doubting about why is that there and why is she taking pictures of it?
Speaker: Like why this is so interesting.
Speaker: Yeah, I liked that, that relation.
Speaker: They were a little skeptical about it.
Speaker: Is that a word?
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Skeptical.
Speaker: Skeptical, yeah.
Speaker: Yes, it was like that kind of reaction, I think.
Speaker: It's great.
Speaker: And the group of people in the train, they look timeless.
Speaker: Like it was a good moment.
Speaker: It looks like they could be from the nineties or the two thousand.
Speaker: Now you have the masks.
Speaker: So that's very, very contemporary.
Speaker: That is a part of the time and place.
Speaker: Unfortunately.
Speaker: Yes.
Speaker: The masks.
Speaker: Yes.
Speaker: Well, cool.
Speaker: Well, is there anything else you'd like to say?
Speaker: Did anyone go into the space with the mesh?
Speaker: No, like during the exhibition.
Speaker: Is there anything?
Speaker: No, but it's not impossible.
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: So it's like a possibility.
Speaker: Like if you want to, how you say, crawl and then to get in, maybe you can.
Speaker: But...
Speaker: Yeah, I like the thing that you have this limit or limitation in the space, but it looks not too tough.
Speaker: Like, it looks like it is possible to get in there.
Speaker: Like, it's not that, like, how do you say, like...
Speaker: Well, the material is soft, it's soft.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: You can kind of bend the bottom or fold it up or something.
Speaker: Yeah, yeah.
Speaker: It's like, yes.
Speaker: It's not like a wall, you know.
Speaker: You can see through it.
Speaker: It's more like subtle in some way.
Speaker: So...
Speaker: But it would still feel like a violation.
Speaker: Like you're not supposed to.
Speaker: Yes.
Speaker: Totally.
Speaker: But I like that you have this question.
Speaker: Like maybe I can go in there.
Speaker: Like it's possible.
Speaker: It's not like.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: It's.
Speaker: I can say as a child who grew up in New York city, um, oftentimes when we did run into sites of construction, they did become pseudo playgrounds for us when they, like on the weekends, when the men weren't working, we would, I mean, it was an invitation for us to play.
Speaker: I can imagine.
Speaker: I, I really, I really like this kind of material.
Speaker: So if I were a kid, I will probably try to get in there or yeah.
Speaker: Or like in the middle of the two layers because you have like this double layer and that's like you want to do this and to touch it.
Speaker: I'm just looking at it now.
Speaker: It's creating this nice moray effect, kind of like the two layers.
Speaker: Yes, yes.
Speaker: I like that.
Speaker: It's like...
Speaker: illusion in some way.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Well, very cool.
Speaker: Thank you so much for giving us a tour.
Speaker: I guess I would post some pictures and people can see it because obviously, but it's up until when?
Speaker: Until the 20.
Speaker: Hmm.
Speaker: Maybe we should put the podcast out tomorrow so that people can go see it.
Speaker: Yes.
Speaker: Because it's, I was talking to, remember, Annika, Todd?
Speaker: We talked to her a couple of days ago because she's going away to teach in a different city.
Speaker: So we thought we'd podcast with her as well.
Speaker: And we were talking about methods of, like for her to finish a piece, the documentation is very important.
Speaker: But I remember talking to you and how the documentation doesn't quite complete the work for you.
Speaker: Yeah, it's interesting because for me, it's very important that the documentation, as it's like the only thing that remains of the work,
Speaker: But at the same time, I feel that a picture of the work is not like an artwork for me.
Speaker: It's not like
Speaker: Like for me, the most important thing is the experience that you have into the space with the work.
Speaker: So when I see just a picture of the work, it's like it's not enough to really show how the work was.
Speaker: So yes, I would really like to invite people to come and see it like directly.
Speaker: Perfect.
Speaker: We will put the call out.
Speaker: Well, thank you so much for speaking with us.
Speaker: Thank you for showing us this amazing work and good luck with you in your future endeavors.
Speaker: Thank you.
Speaker: And thank you for coming and for being so interested about it and like thoughtful.
Speaker: My pleasure.
Speaker: Thank you.
Speaker: Thank you.
Speaker: Arranging Tangerines is recorded, edited, and produced by Lydian Stater, an evolving curatorial platform based in New York City with a focus on the intersection of contemporary and crypto art.
Speaker: You can learn more at LydianStater.co, find images at LydianStaterNYC on Instagram, and follow us at LydianStater on Twitter.
Speaker: Thanks to Maria Gabler for taking the time to speak to us this week.
Speaker: If you'd like to learn more about her work, visit our website at MariaGabler.com.
Speaker: Big thanks to Tall Juan, who graciously provides our intro music.
Speaker: His albums are available at tallwan.bandcamp.com.
Speaker: And thank you to you, listener, for spending your valuable time with us.
Speaker: I know what to do.
Speaker: I don't know what to say.
Speaker: I just know I don't want to be like you.
Speaker: I know what to do.
Speaker: I don't know what to say.
Speaker: I just know I don't want to be like you.
Speaker: you
