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🗣️ FINCON, CampFI, & FinTalks: 3 Live Events to Enrich Your Financial Independence Journey! 🚢
979 Plays24 days ago
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🎤 Philip "PT Money" Taylor (FINCON), Stephen Baughier (CampFI), and Amberly Grant (FinTalks) share the evolution and impact of their live events on the FI community.🏕️
Philip, Stephen, and Amberly discuss how their events—ranging from conferences to camp retreats and even cruises—offer unique experiences for people seeking financial freedom.
In this episode, we discuss:
1️⃣ The Origins of FINCON, CampFI, & FINTALKS: How these events began and what motivated their founders.
2️⃣ What to Expect When Attending: A breakdown of the experience, community, and content at each event.
3️⃣ Pricing & Accessibility: Learn about the pricing structure and what’s covered for FINCON, CampFI, and FINTALKS.
4️⃣ Building Real FI Communities: How Stephen is taking FI to the next level with his unique in-person neighborhood.
5️⃣ Challenges & Future Plans: The founders reflect on the obstacles they’ve faced and their vision for the future.
🔗 Philip "PT Money" Taylor's Links:
📆 FINCON
🔗 Stephen Baughier's Links:
🏕️ CampFI
🔗 Amberly Grant's Links:
🔗 David's Links:
🍏 Forget About Money on Apple Podcasts
🎧 Forget About Money on Spotify
📜 Fi Community Builder Quotes:
💡 "FINCON is all about creating a space for financial content creators to connect, share, and grow." — Philip "PT Money" Taylor
🔥 "CampFI brings the FI community together in a personal and relaxed environment, fostering deep connections." — Stephen Baughier
🚢 "FinTalks started with Facebook Lives but has evolved into a cruise where people create lifelong friendships." — Amberly Grant
#financialindependence #financialfreedom #moneymotivation #FINCON #CampFI #FinTalks #PhilipTaylor #StephenBaughier #AmberlyGrant
🎧 Listen & Subscribe: Don’t forget to subscribe to "Forget About Money" for more ways to enrich your personal finance and life journey. Hit the bell icon 🔔 to stay updated on the latest episodes!
Disclaimer: This episode is for entertainment and educational purposes only and does not constitute legal, tax, or financial advice. Consult a professional for your specific financial situation.
Transcript
00:00:00
Speaker
The visionary founders of face-to-face finance events, FinCon, CampFi, and FinTalks share their experiences as financial independence community builders. Here we go.
00:00:13
Speaker
Welcome to the Forget About Money podcast, where we encourage you to take action today so that you can focus on what matters most to you. Today, we have a little something different. We have three guests and you probably know all of their names already. We have Phillip P.T. Money Taylor, who is the founder of FinCon. We have Steven Boyer, who is the founder of Camp Fi. And we have Amberlee Grant, who is the founder of FinTalks. Welcome. Thanks for having us, David.
00:00:42
Speaker
Hello. Good to be here. Thanks, sir. Some people, when they discover financial independence or get passionate about finances, they might start a blog. They might even start a podcast. However, some people do a little bit more. They go a little bit farther and they start live events. And that is what all three of you have done. And so many people have benefited from it. So, Phillip, let's start with you.
00:01:07
Speaker
How long has FinCon been around and why did you start it? And what inspired you to to get it going? Yeah, FinCon started in 2011. So what's that over 13 years now? um And what inspired me to do it was going really going to other conferences at the time.
00:01:26
Speaker
and feeling like you know that the finance people you know at those events, who I ended up talking to in the hallways and go and have you know dinner with after. that Those were the folks I really wanted to connect with. And so we didn't really have a conference for us at the time. And so it was ah was inspired by the fact that there you know those hallway and other conferences relationships needed to kind of have a home of its own. And so um that's ah that's probably the the biggest motivation behind it. but Personally, you know I had been impacted by those people pretty significantly and and so much so that i mean they had helped me move toward a place of financial freedom. Not quite independence in my life yet, but they had allowed me to start a business. um And so I you know wanted to kind of have just more of that in my life. And the event was a way to kind of
00:02:16
Speaker
celebrate that and bring it all together and make it real in life because. You know before that it was just something on the internet i was playing around doing and um and so yeah that fall in twenty eleven is when we kick things off and. It was just a community that inspired me the community that existed before the event what is that first event look like compared to what it looks like right now.
00:02:37
Speaker
Yeah. So the first event was really, uh, something I'd planned for maybe a hundred people ended up having 200 and something. They're far exceeding my expectations. Um, it was, uh, in a suburban hotel outside of Chicago and Schomburg, Illinois, and it looked like what you.
00:02:54
Speaker
think ah what most conferences look like. it's It's got some sessions, it's got some general sessions, breakouts, it's got exhibits and parties and networking events. So I stayed ah ah stayed down the traditional path with the event. I had it in a hotel, kind of did the traditional, you know,
00:03:11
Speaker
up to the business event thing i really want to think i'm to be a business event and set for people to come there and see it as an investment. um And to actually make business happen while they're there and also learn about how to improve their craft while they're there and so. That was that was what it was like but it was in some ways a reunion because these people all new each other online interacting in different ways and forums are commenting each other's content.
00:03:39
Speaker
And so this is the first time for us to come together, but it was like, Oh, there's the avatar now walking around and I can shake their hand and actually get to know them and hang out. And so it, it, it sort of altered relationships in a little way, but because we had these sort of pre in-person relationships that we had established with each other for years online and, uh, coming together in person sort of gave us a chance to kind of reset that, you know, ah what's this person really like after hang out with them for a few minutes, you know, and then, Oh, I really like this person we can maybe work together and so it created a lot of those things um there was a sense that I feel like that the community had done this together I sort of allowed them to kind of you know form it and the nine months leading up to the conference allowed everyone to kind of
00:04:25
Speaker
bring their ideas forward. And it wasn't the PT show. It was an event that the community had formed together. And so I think that's probably what I was most proud of, of that first iteration was that it was something I felt like we as a community had created, which was pretty cool. Well, it's got to feel, feel pretty good. If your very first event, you've only planned for a hundred and you two X that, that told you that the the demand was there.
00:04:51
Speaker
you know, right off the bat. So you yeah I mean, that's what it would have voted confidence for what you're doing and and seeing the need out there and and you putting something in place to respond to that need. Yeah, it was probably also a little bit of, ah you know, ah me under planning at first, you know, just like,
00:05:07
Speaker
and thinking that people really wouldn't want wanted but yeah you're right there was more much more demand and much more demand even outside of the initial circle that i thought it would be attractive to we had. Financial advisors come we had podcasters come ah folks from the traditional media space and so it had a bigger reach then you know we initially thought and so immediately i change the name just a fan con from the financial blogger conference. ah Because i wanted it to then kind of take on this bigger ten idea.
00:05:36
Speaker
Yeah, and it's fewer syllables, so that's easier. That's right. That's hitting wise and's right. Stephen, can you share the background story of Camp Phi? What was your initial motivation for it?
00:05:48
Speaker
Well, as you know, David, me and you went to Camp Mustache in 2016, had a great time. And at that time, I think there was only one Camp Mustache being held every year and it was in up in Washington state. And we are from Georgia, the Southeastern United States. So that's a long way to go, but it was definitely worth it and I enjoyed it. and It's really cool to meet kind of people who are like minded. People who gravitated toward the Mr. Money Mustache blog blog specifically and I was good to meet them in person and just kind of feel like you were part of something because a lot of times maybe when people first stumble on that upon that blog, it's
00:06:27
Speaker
It's like, oh, that might be the first time that they feel like someone is sort of speaking their language. Just the mindset's a little bit counterculture. And so at the time, I didn't feel like I really knew anybody around here that was that into that mindset. So going up there, being surrounded by, I don't know, 50 other people, it was it was just a good experience.
00:06:50
Speaker
I felt like if I'm down here in the Southeast, there's gotta be other people down here with that same mindset and I wanna find them. So I asked the organizers from the original Camp Mustache, could I do a Camp Mustache down here in the Southeast? And they were absolutely supportive. We did that in January of the following January in 2017. At 38 people show up down in Florida, just out of Gainesville, which is North Central Florida and had a good time.
00:07:18
Speaker
like PT was saying, you get to see some of these people you just kinda know as avatars online, you get to see them in person. I mean, we had JD Roth come down, we had Mr. Money Mustache came down, ah and and a few others that people would know today. And it was just a really good time. And I didn't know at the time if it was gonna turn into any kind of a business or if that was gonna be the very last one that I ever did. Because you know, ah PT, you're an accountant, I'm an accountant.
00:07:48
Speaker
It's kind of funny how these accountants are like going completely probably out of their comfort zone and just creating the super social events. You know, I've never done an event before so planning for it. I was like, well, you know, I'm just gonna create something that I want.
00:08:04
Speaker
with with people that ah know the things that I don't know, that's how it originated. I do remember that and we you and I had a lot of ah conversations along the way and I'm really proud of how that one went and then just what you've done with it so far, helping so many people.
00:08:20
Speaker
amberly fintox is your brand and you are based out of Colorado, what led you to combine your love of financial independence with Fintox events in your local area, your group membership, as well as, I believe just most recently, now you're going on cruises. So give gives us the background. this is This is a little bit more unique than ah PTs or Stevens.
00:08:48
Speaker
um And like them or unlike them, I should say, I am a very social creature. Steven just mentioned you know he's an accountant and this is a lot for him. I love getting people together and I've been like this since I was a child. so you know grabbing ah My mom always tells a story about how I would gather the neighborhood children, go to their parents, get 50 cents for McDonald's ice cream, and then walk them all to McDonald's, buy ice cream for everyone. And then we play in the play place and I'd walk them home. So like this is in my blood. um For me, it was 2020. The pandemic had just hit. I'd always wanted to start a podcast, but I hadn't really
00:09:28
Speaker
made the leap. I had all this financial knowledge. I've been reading finance books since I was 15 years old. I didn't really know what to do with it all. And I figured people were hurting or something might be going on with people financially because of a pandemic. And so what I decided to do was start just um doing Facebook Lives every single day, five days a week for 25 minutes.
00:09:49
Speaker
every day at the same time. And I started gathering a following. um And then someone in that following was like, we should have a Tuesday conversation. So then FinTalks, which was called FinZoom at the time, I have an eight week old behind me as you can hear.
00:10:03
Speaker
um FinZoom is what I used to call it, ah started. And that was just a group of people who would get on every single Tuesday at 5.30 Mountain Time and just have a conversation around finances, life, support each other, get to know each other, and we didn't know each other before this. And then that was, it started with four people. Three of them are my friends, one person I didn't know. um And I have had four and a half years of fin talks conversations on tuesday's at some point someone said hey let's have an in person event i had never thrown one before for people so i figured. Yes cuz i'm just like a yes person i'm so i hosted twenty five people in denver people flew in from like around the country.
00:10:49
Speaker
to come. 16 people stayed at my house, so we had this event where I cooked food for everyone. We had a couple of talks. We went to Mr. Money Mustache headquarters, had people like do some presentations there, and then everyone flew home on the Sunday or Monday. Most people flew home on Monday because it's the Fi community, right? They all want the cheap flight.
00:11:08
Speaker
Um, then I did that for three years straight. So I held in-person events where I no longer cooked, but had it catered. Um, each time I'd, you know, incrementally better third time. Uh, I decided this was a lot of work and I was actually at a camp fi where someone at lunch had said, we should go on a cruise to Steven. And Steven's like, m I don't know if I'm up for that. And I was like, I'll do that. And decided that I should get into the cruise life. I've never been on a cruise in my entire life. Uh,
00:11:36
Speaker
So I decided to do this event on a cruise and I expected 15 people like PT. It was one of those things where I was like, m I think I can sell 15 people. So that's like, I'll i'll reserve 10 cabins, that's 20 people. And like maybe I'll get to 20, but like I'll hit 15. 65 people showed up for the cruise. So not what I was expecting.
00:12:00
Speaker
Then this year we have already 105 people. And now um I just randomly had mentioned that I wanted to do like a Scotland Castle event. ah And my community holds me to the random things I say on my talks are on Tuesday conversations. So now we have a Fin Talks Scotland um castle event where we have 10 rooms and we've sold out for two full weeks um of people coming in and out like each week ah to hang out in Scotland in August of 2025. So that's how it all kind of came about and all the different events that came from just one conversation on Tuesday nights.
00:12:38
Speaker
Wow. That's really all I could say. Who who would who could foreshadowed Scotland castle trips for money nerds at some point? Or much less, like a cruise. You know what I mean? It's typically like a frugal type of thing. You don't think cruise, but You know, it it was a great time. I and i went earlier this year. um I was one of those unexpected extra 40 people that came along or 45 people that came along and it was it was wonderful. Amberlee puts on a great event. Yeah, Steven made it. I heard some rumors about that. we'll We'll keep that under wraps. So no, I know everybody had a really good time. but At any point, do you plan on just buying your own cruise ship? Oh, yeah, definitely. I should just start like, you know how they have the jet share programs? I should do like a cruise share program.
00:13:26
Speaker
There you go. heard it here Or you can just say it in your group and next thing you know you're actually are doing it. I know, yeah. For those unfamiliar with these events, can each of you explain what attendees can expect when they attend ah your event for the very first time, PT? When you come to my event for the first time, you're going to ah have an opportunity to meet with other folks who are creating content in the personal finance fi investing space, right? So people who are,
00:13:52
Speaker
really passionate about taking their passion for financial you know um ah independence and sharing that with the world with the content business. right and so That's what you're going to get to connect with while you're there. ah There are going to be sessions on how to do that, how to create better content, how to market it better, and then how to monetize it, if that's your goal.
00:14:14
Speaker
um And then ah we're gonna also have brands there right so financial services companies are there also creator services companies are there you have a chance to meet with them face-to-face and set up ah some type of business relationship if you want or kind of further establish that and then we just have plenty of time to hang and talk and hang out we have also have sort of side discussions around financial topics so because we're all financial nerds ah but also content creators. We mostly want to come together and talk about the content stuff ah first. So that's what's going to happen and going to be the primary objective. But hey, there's typically something new going on in the thigh community or in the investing community or in retirement community. So we sort of gather those communities together to have many discussions about some of those sort of hot topics. ah So that does happen. They are still at FinCon and and we're proud of that. We want to kind of help further did this the discussion about
00:15:08
Speaker
you know helping people's financial lives and as part of that is sort of continue to educate ourselves on the topics um and so that's that's what you can experience at the end it's four days of fun we move it around every year that's one one big conference we. I will have probably around fifteen hundred folks there this year we're gonna have it in ah october ah this year and twenty four in atlanta.
00:15:35
Speaker
ah Right up the road, Atlanta. Speaking of Atlanta, good win last night against Philadelphia. Out of nowhere. Went to bed. I went to bed. I was like, man, we're going to lose. I'm going to bed. I'm not going to watch this garbage. I got up and I looked at my phone. I was like, dang, I should have stayed up for the extra one minute and 30 seconds on the clock or whatever it was where everything's changed. That is a big win. That is a big win. I don't think anybody expected him to be Philadelphia. He's pretty legit. None of y'all are Philadelphia fans, are you?
00:16:03
Speaker
Hockey. That's all I can say. I'm Canadian. Yeah. Steven, what can somebody expect from one of your events? Camp Phi is primarily a community builder first. So you can expect the focus to be on just hanging out.
00:16:21
Speaker
It's typically, I think they've all up to now have been Friday through Monday. So it's a long weekend. ah People will check in on Friday between four and six or so, have dinner, then hang out and sort of introduce themselves between dinner and bedtime.
00:16:36
Speaker
Saturday and Sunday, between breakfast and lunch, we usually have a couple presentations, which is a nice shared experience for the group. And then after lunch, we'll do breakout sessions on topics that are determined by the group. And that's just an informal discussion where people usually just put their chairs in a circle, talk about travel hacking, life after five, just whatever they decide, whatever the topics that they decide they want to talk about.
00:17:02
Speaker
And then is free time after that usually it's from like two to six you have about four hours of free time just ah go and do whatever the retreat center offers in the way of like recreational opportunity sometimes i have hiking trails archery can use kayaks on a lake or a river.
00:17:19
Speaker
Some people just go and take a nap and sort of recharge the battery a little bit. And a lot of people just sit around on a porch and a chair and just chitchat. So it's it's a little different from FinCon in that way. So it's more personal finance, knowledge sharing related event than it is about just building a business, you know, money, money focused content creation business. And we are not in a hotel environment.
00:17:48
Speaker
We usually find a like a summer camp, people who do summer camp for kids or organizations that do summer camps for kids. Those are the type of places that have what we want. We want to be able to to lodge people. We want to be able to feed them on site, not necessarily have to go outside and get catering delivered. And we want fun stuff to do out in nature. But then Saturday and Sunday, that's kind of what that looks like. Sometimes it's Saturday night or Sunday night after dinner, we'll have like a podcast, or if they do come and they want to create some content, we'll have some live podcast recording maybe. So that's a good fun time for a lot of us to just sit down and let watch and witness a podcast being created live, which is awesome. And, you know, two or three weeks later, you get to hear it and share it. And then somebody's kind of like the star of their podcast and they really weren't expecting to be so, so it's fun for them. And sometimes karaoke breaks out.
00:18:43
Speaker
that's That's always a good time. And trying to think of what else, just people hanging out sometimes ah at night, have a campfire going. Then Monday morning is sort of just people hanging out, clearing out their rooms, leaving as their travel plans dictate and maybe like getting numbers and saying bye to people by noon, we're out of there. so It's a late Friday to middle of the day, Monday, start to finish, and it's pretty low key. if If you're watching this on YouTube, you do know, or actually probably even listening to it, our voices are very similar. We look very similar. If you don't know who I am or who Steven is, we are identical twin brothers. So I want to throw that out there that I'm sure I'm biased in some way towards his events. But as objective as I can be, I've gone to a number of campfires and they've been excellent. And I've got
00:19:31
Speaker
many, many friends that have come from those events. So I've gone to campfires. I've gone to FinCon in DC a few years ago, but I have not yet been on a cruise. Amberlee, what can I expect when I board that ship? I'd love for you to join.
00:19:48
Speaker
on so We have a pre-cruise session where we just get on Zoom so that everyone can have the best experience. We talk about you know what are limitations for going you know cruising to a different country. um you know People like Josh Overmeyer, who've been on 20 cruises a year, will come on and talk to us about what's the best way to do this um so that you have the best time individually. The cruise itself, um I've been to PT's event, I've been to Stephen's event, so I've been to FinCon and CampFi, and they've described them perfectly. I've learned so much at FinCon.
00:20:20
Speaker
I'm and can't I made so many friends and the cruise is just a bit different what I'm trying to do there is facilitate financial conversations between people so that you can make friends and then come into the real world and get advice from them in the future so what I like to do with the cruise is make sure that everyone has like an introduction then you know You go off to your cabins, you do your thing. ah Normally that night, if I'll get a conference room, ah we'll do all those intros. We'll have like a question that we'll do it in groups. so And you only get to meet a little bit of people each time. So maybe we'll split the groups up into four. So you're just meeting that specific, you know let's say at this point, 25 people. um So then when you're on the ship, you can recognize them.
00:21:04
Speaker
And that's what everyone loves is that as you're walking by, you can just, oh, you guys are going to the dining room. Let's go together. Or you're going to walk the track. We'll go together. And that's where the kind of the relationships start. Then you have um excursions and we have a spreadsheet where everyone can put their excursions and you can join in on other people's excursions. So then you can again, meet new people um and have some great conversations. Then we'll do some conference room times on C days. So the conference rooms are about two and a half hours. I only do 10 minute presentations from people.
00:21:35
Speaker
So I don't want it to be about presenters. I don't want it to be about speakers. It truly is about the attendees getting to know and helping each other. So 10 minutes just to spark conversation. um And then we might do a question and answer or kind of a group discussion about it.
00:21:50
Speaker
i Then everyone goes about the ship and just runs into each other and has such a great time. It creates memories. Yeah, that's exactly it. It's the number one feedback I got was that everyone loved that they could just identify everyone while they're walking around.
00:22:08
Speaker
have great conversation. And then at the end of the entire event, people can share their socials or um phone numbers. I have people who literally just went on a dive trip ah to Fiji together who never met before the cruise. um Before the cruise, since we were going to go diving on the cruise, two people from the cruise actually met up in Florida beforehand to get their certification. So these are the types of relationships you're going to build from being at the cruise. And therefore, some real friends in real life who you can talk about finances with because we don't have a lot of those.
00:22:38
Speaker
So, PT, you have not gone to one of the cruises, correct? Okay. Maybe you and I can like get a stateroom or something. Share room. That's right. Let's do it. Sounds fun. Amberlee, that does sound great. And since your last cruise, we have many of the same associate associates, uh, friends, and I've heard nothing but great things about the cruise. So everybody had a really good time. Good. Thank you. Yeah. Uh, this year we're going to the Caribbean. Um, and then I'm going for Alaska 2026. All right.
00:23:09
Speaker
Philip, let's let's take a huge step back. Back when you first started FinCon, what was going on in your life? Why did you think you needed to do this? like Was it a financial endeavor for you? Was it a hobby? And then talk about how that has changed over the last decade of you doing this. Yep. When I first started at that time, I was had just ah become a full-time blogger, personal finance blogger myself. So it was a year into that,
00:23:36
Speaker
I came from the CPA corporate finance world, did that for 10 years of my life. I'm very risk averse person. So it took me a while to kind of make the leap to entrepreneurship. But I did that in 2010, after having my blog for three years kind of on the side. And so ah once I became a full-time blogger, I guess I needed another side hustle, you know, and so then con kind of became that for me, but also a way to, um, Kind of connect me even further as I mentioned early on to the community that had helped me ah become financially free and make that leap toward entrepreneurship. I was just kind of it felt like the natural natural step for for me to be the one to do that and so.
00:24:14
Speaker
um that That was not initially a financial endeavor. I didn't want to lose money on my first year. and so i I planned accordingly, but I was conservative in my estimates and my commitments. um and Luckily, the community came through, sponsors came through, and it worked out. and We made a little money even the first year.
00:24:36
Speaker
and so I was doing much better though as a business and so it was still growing and at the time i need to put most of my focus on that and so that's what i did for the first two or three years of and con was just continue to focus on my blog. Can i was the side project that. Me and my team would you know kind of put together i would spend anywhere from three to six months of the year kinda focused on that partially during the day but for the most part it was still the blog was the big business and so.
00:25:05
Speaker
um yeah I didn't really see it as a as long as it was it did lose money initially around your four it's when my blog that particular business flat lined and i said and okay i need to maybe focus on the event and maybe making it more successful on its own and so i shifted my focus to making it.
00:25:25
Speaker
um you know, uh, scaling it up, you know, trying to include more people, trying to get more partners and sponsors there, open up in a true exhibit hall versus just people in the hallways, uh, spanning it to multiple ticket levels where you can come. Cause I can't think on very affordable in my view, it still is ah at the entry level, but then, uh, we scaled up tickets and try to add more value for people through more connection, more, you know,
00:25:53
Speaker
parties at the event different ways to kind of make it a ah better experience for them and people are willing to pay so There's a way to scale the business. Um, and also there wasn't a home for at the time ah This explosive growth that we were seeing in the fire community, right? And so FinCon I felt like predated fire a little bit maybe like by a year um I don't know Jacob had been around long before that and I was a fan but I um It was our second event that Pete came but mr. Money mustache came and so that's kind of when I felt that really starting to pop and we were a benefit of them really not having at the time a home. For that sort of consider that what I would consider the consumer conference or consumer element of our conference that were just attracted to the fire message um which is very powerful on a huge fan um consider myself a part of the movement as well but.
00:26:48
Speaker
Initially the the conference predated it, but, uh, then I would say years 2011, 2012 through even through 19, uh, we were, we became kind of a home for fire. Um, and we had multiple people at our event who didn't have a blog, didn't have a podcast or a YouTube channel, but just really wanted to kind of celebrate personal finance. And that's what then kind of kind of became, became this bigger tent idea.
00:27:12
Speaker
that a lot of folks kind of just see themselves so being a part of, which was exciting. Um, and as a business owner, it was fun because, you know, I, you know, I expand the event and events really do, uh, uh, once means you can scale them like that, you know, they become a lot more profitable. So it was, uh, it was positive in that sense for me and my team, uh, to see the, the business grow.
00:27:36
Speaker
And so through the 20 teens, you're still about, you're an accountant, correct? And a financial planner? Just a CPA. Okay. So CPA and and you're still currently active doing that, correct? I've actually just gotten back into the world. ah ah I left it for 15 years, jumped back in last year after my dad retired and someone needed to take over the family CPA firm. And so that's me now. so Okay. Hey, Steven, if you're looking for somebody to work remote,
00:28:02
Speaker
Steven's also very good at accounting. Okay. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So making connections here, let's do it. So Steven, while PT has been around much longer than and your brand,
00:28:15
Speaker
I don't think anybody disagrees that you have many, many more events under your belt over time because PTs is once a year, yours is nine a year, eight a year. Yeah, eight eight this year is eight. So and it's it's held in different locations throughout the country. That's changing though. Next year, you're doing one in Spain, actually doing two in Spain, correct?
00:28:35
Speaker
Yes, maybe three, four. No, just two. Just two. I remember back whenever you first started in all the challenges and things that the unknown and the nervousness, but you're still pushing forward doing what you're doing for the greater good. What are some of the challenges that you've run into doing so many events and so many different venues?
00:28:57
Speaker
And how do you keep that motivation over time? Okay, yeah, so I think that's two different questions and I'm gonna address the the motivation one first. As P.T. knows and Amberlee will probably learn is after you do a few, your experience with that changes a little bit.
00:29:14
Speaker
You know, you see it differently. so So what I mean by that for me personally was like, I still find a lot of fulfillment in every event that I do, but it doesn't feel the same as those first few to me, emotionally and everything. And you know, it's just, that's because it's not as new. And sometimes I wonder, does that mean I'm not motivated? Cause it feels different. I remind myself often, probably every camp now,
00:29:41
Speaker
David, do you remember when we went to that first Camp Mustache hot felt? you know how it went probably for your next two events, like how it felt, it felt just wonderful. It was like this high that didn't wear off for maybe a week after. I had to remind myself that that's what the new people are feeling every time. and Even though it's my coming up on 50th one this year, that's gonna feel different for me than it is for someone coming in new. And that's where I get re-motivated is because I can tap into like how I felt
00:30:16
Speaker
my first few and know that that's what they are feeling and that motivates me to try to do a really good job for them. So that's where I found my motivation, even though it's it's its different, but but that's that's how I stayed motivated. The other thing was you asked about any problems or challenges. Yeah, what are your challenges and how do you balance like your personal real life back in Georgia with kids and work with Camp Phi?
00:30:43
Speaker
So Camp Fi's specific challenge now is because we're having so many camps, like it's hard to find speakers. So we have, oh because we've done it for so long also, we've had a lot of, the debate i'll probably ah almost all of the big name, with few exceptions, big name speakers and names that you would know in the Fi community have attended a camp and have spoken at a camp. And that's been great. And I've been really appreciative of their support early on.
00:31:10
Speaker
And as time goes by and we're trying to get different speakers and and now that we're having more and more camps, I'm trying to have four speakers per camp. And so it's it's a little tough sometimes because over the course of a year, that's 32 different speakers. Whereas before, you know, in a minute, like eight speakers or, you know, for 2017, I just needed, we actually had six speakers for that particular camp before we made some some changes to the schedule. But To me, that's one of the big challenges is lining up the speakers. And not that I didnt saw that coming, but one of the things that I did reduces the potential for maybe disappointment or setting expectations for attendees is I've never led with the speakers. Like I've never said from, you know, these tickets are for sale and this person, this person, and this person, and this person is speaking like right out the gate.
00:31:59
Speaker
Now later on as tickets have been on sale people are buying tickets most people buy tickets they have no idea the speakers are gonna be because that is what i want it is in line with the community first speakers are great and release spoken at a number of them. We're gonna try to get p to come and speak at one of them at some point and you yourself have spoken at once but people i want people who want to come for the community first not so.
00:32:23
Speaker
they can necessarily fangirl or fanboy over a certain person in the fire community. Cause that makes things a little awkward, I'm sure. But we've had that, but I mean, and it's been fine and it's been fun and and it's neat. We actually had a surprise at the very first campfire Midwest that we do in Minnesota.
00:32:42
Speaker
No one knew that Jim Collins was going to be there. So he brought his wife and as people are checking in, he's hanging out talking and I see people like whispering to each other. It's like, is that him? Because they can hear his very unique voice. Like, is that him? Is that him? And I thought that was a really fun surprise. He's like, yes, that's me. Yeah. But those people all bought a ticket and didn't know they didn't buy it for him. They bought it to be part of the community and just happened to be ah pleasantly surprised when he was there. So, and you know, we really haven't had any dumpster fires yet. So it's it's worked out great.
00:33:13
Speaker
No dumpster fires. That's the good metric. Yeah, that keeps going. We'll do another one if there's no dumpster fire. We're good. Well, I do hope that you continue to stay motivated. I know you've been doing this for a while and and and again, I understand some of the challenges better than maybe better than anyone other than you because we talk about them times. I do hope that you keep going with it because I know you know you're doing a lot of good out there and for not a lot of financial return.
00:33:37
Speaker
Just keep doing what you're doing as long as you can still find joy in it. Amberlee, your personality lends itself to this type of work. I'm gonna say work, I mean, I guess it's work, yeah keystrokes, effort. Amberlee, your personality lends itself to these types of events. And you've clearly, like even right now, you've got a big smile and you're also multitasking with a child in your arms. So this comes natural to you.
00:34:05
Speaker
How do you, first off, how do you balance it in your daily life? ah how do Do you compartmentalize or is it just all you in your everyday? And how do you see yourself participating in your brand going forward? I take a deep breath um when you ask that question because this is the thing that I'm constantly battling or trying to understand myself. I'm a very,
00:34:36
Speaker
I do a lot of things and work a full-time job, have rental properties, have a husband, an eight-week-old child, a toddler. um So I'm balancing a lot and I do get very overwhelmed with all the activities that I do and especially trying to provide a good experience for people. So answering emails and things like that. um So I guess to answer your question is I'm still learning how to balance everything.
00:35:04
Speaker
and I just don't stop is how I have to keep going to make sure I can keep all these plates juggling. What I have started doing um so that I can have a better experience, um like Stephen is saying, like the motivation changes as you go. i'm I have actually started having people help. So in return for like a free membership to my community or No planning fees for the cruise or whatever it might be. I've actually had people reach out saying, hey, I'd love to help you with something. And so then I've started to offload responsibilities that I have um to someone else. And this is what I've heard from all the great entrepreneurs is what you need to do to have run a successful business.
00:35:46
Speaker
and And I have not been able to do that in the past. So I'd say this year, um especially over the past four months is the first time that I've started to really do that. And it has been incredible. So for the cruise, I have someone who sends out all the first emails, they add people to the spreadsheet. And it was such an overwhelming process for me, even though it seems like from the outside, it's like, Oh, it'll take you two minutes.
00:36:08
Speaker
but it's never just two minutes as you all know it's like responding and it's two minutes for 105 people and whatever. um So I find that just a challenge um in general and then for me my personality of saying yes too often is like there wouldn't be a cruise if I didn't have this personality right so um as you can imagine multiplying that on different parts of my life is is a lot so I've also learned to say no.
00:36:30
Speaker
I had a whole year where all i can do everytime someone ask me something i had to say no first and then i can step back and see if i want to do the thing so i'm trying to like i guess therapy ah incorporate some therapy things into my life that i can really balance and manage everything.
00:36:46
Speaker
PT, ah you've been doing this for, would you say 2011? So we're we're coming up on 13 years now, 14 years. And when you started the fire movement, the financial independence movement, you had Jacob Lund Fisker and then you had shortly after you had Mr. Money Mustache ah coming into the space. So you've seen a number of trends and transitions in the financial independence community. What trends have you personally noted since 2011 to 2000 and now, and how is that shaping FinCon? Interesting. um I would say, ah um how has it shaped FinCon? I would say in the biggest way,
00:37:27
Speaker
It's shaped FinCon is that it's given our community sort of a heart and soul behind why we're doing what we're doing. Right? So when I first started, uh, you know, ah sharing blog posts, um, I was somewhat mimicking what I saw the other bloggers doing out there, but also somewhat just sharing my own journey. And I have my own faith and my own beliefs and my wise behind what I'm doing, whether it's.
00:37:51
Speaker
you know my family or my own independence or whatever but there really wasn't this sort of flag that we had collectively put in the ground and said this is kind of where we're going and so that's what I like about what I did for even the FinCon community was that it it's somewhat said okay this is kind of you know an end goal we can now all work towards why we're doing it right but to create this place of financial independence which leads to more choice in your life and more opportunity More joy ah and ah more love for others you know whatever it is so um you know having. Fire initially gave think i'm more of a backbone right because at first it was somewhat of a just a route they're all making content and doing it sort of for all reasons um and it was you know there's a commercial aspect of income that some people may not find attractive but,
00:38:43
Speaker
of for for for the classic entrepreneur and capitalist in me, I'd certainly appreciate it and and love it. And so um we've always sort of been about that. But fire also gave us kind of ah a little bit of a heart and soul behind what we were doing. So initially, that's what I appreciated it for. um And I would say, ah um you know, I've seen it, I've seen it grow obviously into other mediums. It started with, you know, just bloggers, but then it, you know, quickly jumped up the podcast and now it's on video channels and the story of fires being shared across different mediums. So I've had the privilege of kind of seeing that happen as well. There's some people's.
00:39:20
Speaker
starting a TikTok channel, I'm sure tomorrow and they're passionate about financial dependence and they will you know get a lot of attention and make a lot of noise and help a lot of people with what they're doing. And so it's cool to see how the mediums have changed and and that's kind of changed a little bit some of the messaging.
00:39:37
Speaker
um We reached sort of a high watermark in 2018, 2019 in terms of fire involvement in our, uh, the FinCon community. But then I felt like it was time for, um, them to have, you know, a larger space for themselves. And so you've seen other events, you know, pop up, not just, uh, boutique events, but, you know, even larger events in the space that have popped up that.
00:40:01
Speaker
I have been attracted to the fire community i think that's a good home for them in fact i was almost a part of the start of one of those it happened during the pandemic and so that project never got off the ground but. um We're happy to see fire sort of have different homes now and expand beyond just sort of the creator base that where it might have started. um I have certainly appreciated sort of them the niching down even within the fire community um i'm a fan of ah ah coast fire ah communities. I'm a fan of the fat fire movement as well. And so just the different aspects that you can kind of look at the movement through your own lens to make it more appealing, more attractive for larger groups of people. um I've certainly seen it because of the attention it got. I think
00:40:51
Speaker
a lot because of the content creators who were pushing it. Then obviously mainstream media started picking up on the the idea and now they sort of see it more as a part of the personal finance and spectrum versus this outside space. It's kind of infiltrated in a way that's um been very positive in terms of the whole conversation about how to improve your financial life. It's a kind of a piece of it now versus this fringe movement.
00:41:19
Speaker
um I don't know if that answered your questions, but that's just kind of my general thoughts on it. it's I really liked that response because ah one thing I want to focus on that you said, and I'm going to steal it and use it going forward. Cause I think it encapsulate how I see it as well over the last decade. Plus you've got maybe something that started through extreme frugality might have been how you would describe it. If we were having this conversation 12, 13 years ago, ultra frugality was as far as like how it's being, how financial independence is being marketed or messaged.
00:41:50
Speaker
But then when you mentioned COSTFI and baristaFI and FATFI, it kind of links this whole conversation together because you can include more people because we are all have our unique circumstances and our perspectives and our own journey, money, attitudes, personalities, and how all that fits together, which you're able to build community when you're inclusive.
00:42:16
Speaker
So from that extreme frugality mindset to what we are seeing now is how I interpreted everything that you just said and I concur is being more inclusive and bringing people into the financial independence community who aren't super just ultra frugal.
00:42:32
Speaker
And that's what you've got to do if you want to build a community. And all three of you are community builders. We've talked about your event so far. Uh, the number, we haven't even talked about the numbers of people that you helped. If you have stats, let's share them in a few minutes. Steven, I know this because I know you. And while I think some other people are starting to get the message that you're not stopping with just a campfire, there's something else brewing just this last weekend, and maybe today or yesterday.
00:42:59
Speaker
Everybody has now departed the middle Georgia area, but you had an event this last weekend. Can you explain what that event was and what it's supporting? Yes. So, you know, we're talking about financial independence and early retirement tends to be part of that discussion oftentimes as well.
00:43:16
Speaker
What happens is sometimes will people will become financially independent. They don't have to work, so they don't. And then they might get a little lonely or they might not know what to do, how to spend their days. So they just get back to work because that's the game to play. Something to do. Well, this past weekend, ah we've had 10 or 11 people come down from Colorado, Pennsylvania, Atlanta, and Virginia, we're looking at creating a in real life neighborhood specifically for those who are attracted to the Fi mindset. So for those people who are financially independent and want to do something else with their time besides go work at nine to five,
00:44:00
Speaker
and they want people to do that with, ah this is an option for them. If people are maybe in a high cost of living area and they're not financially independent, but they understand they can do some geographic arbitrage, go to the lower cost of living area where they can be financially independent, this would be an option for you.
00:44:16
Speaker
So really it's it's called EGLE Co-Housing, E-A-G-L-E. It stands for Efficient and Generous Living Environment Co-Housing. Co-Housing is basically what I like to like to describe it as just an efficient neighborhood. People have typically smaller houses and there are shared spaces. We'll have a common house. Oftentimes there will be a garden or some other shared spaces that whatever the community decides that they want. And then they maintain and pay for those spaces among them.
00:44:44
Speaker
And because they have those spaces to share, they really don't need a house with a big footprint. So that's where the efficient comes in. So again, it's a community ah focused neighborhood is what it is. And this is in the middle of Georgia. And if anybody's interested in co-housing, just in general, they can go to co-housing.org. There's a directory there they can find.
00:45:06
Speaker
Any existing or farming co-housing communities in their state and just check it out and if it looks like something that they want to do, you know, I think it could be if you've never heard of it. It could be something that ah you find much more conducive.
00:45:22
Speaker
to like everyday living and connection than what typically is is where we just really don't know our neighbors, we're not really connected, and we just kind of see them maybe as we're entering and exiting our garages. We're going but to and from work, whatever. so so If you really like community and you kind of want to just be a good neighbor and a connected neighbor and you want other people around you to to be that too,
00:45:48
Speaker
And then co-housing might be a good thing for you. But yes, I have Eagle Co-Housing here in one of our options. Georgia is starting. We've got a neighborhood picked out. We have we being me and some people in the Fi community who over the last seven years have purchased ah around 20 houses for the purpose of creating a co-housing community here. So the houses are there. We just need the people. So if you're interested, you can go to the websites, EagleCoHousing.com.
00:46:15
Speaker
Thanks, Steven. We'll put that in the show notes. So if people are, and we'll we'll put links to all of these events in the show notes. And so if anybody's listening to this and they they want to go searching for an event that they think will fit them, please do so. i It's not affiliate. I'm not going to get paid for any of this. So I'm just trying to share the good information, but let's do talk money. Let's PT, we'll go PT, Amberley, and then Steven on this one. PT, how how much does it cost to attend your event and generally what's covered?
00:46:45
Speaker
Sure ah entry level if you buy it early very early bird is around two hundred two hundred and twenty five dollars and what's included is attendance you know entry to the event all the sessions all the apart all the parties except for the ah speaker mixer which we reserve for the second tier ticket.
00:47:02
Speaker
um and ah all the video recordings of the sessions we do you know multiple tracks and so you get those post conference all the parties that happen at the event i think i said that and um know that's it that's what you get.
00:47:21
Speaker
And we have the second tier ticket, sorry, which, uh, is what we call our, uh, creator plus pass, which includes a networking component. So you get the additional mixer at the initial party at the event, as well as, uh, you get access to our meeting software, right? So if you want to meet with brands there at that's a part of what you're trying to do is is grow. So if you're ever.
00:47:44
Speaker
Tizer's for your content then we yeah we facilitate those meetings at the conference and so we use software to kinda do that and that's a second tier ticket and if you're coming in as an outsider a brand or someone from the industry quote unquote then you pay a different level tickets so it's around two fifty. ah Five fifty or six and then ah around seven eight hundred for the brand pass so that's kinda how we laid it out.
00:48:11
Speaker
And you said this year, it's, it's an October and it's in Atlanta. And next year, where is it going to be? We haven't announced the location, but the dates are early, um, early September in the West coast, the United States. Oh, West coast, hopefully somewhere near San Diego, maybe. Yes. Oh, okay. It's on the West coast. It's on the West coast. Amberly.
00:48:33
Speaker
So mine, um it depends on the event. I actually have a question for the group after this, but it depends on the event. So the great thing about a cruise is you can really cheer yourself. You can have an inside cabin or a balcony um or a view room. And so depending on the length of the cruise, but essentially last cruise was 400 to about 700, 650. So that would be between an inside room to a balcony room.
00:48:57
Speaker
im And then I do charge a $50 planning fee. I'm getting my license to be able to you know be the person to actually um book everyone on the reservation so they don't have to charge a planning fee anymore, which is really nice. And then this time, this cruise, which is a six-night cruise, um is $700 for an interior room to and that's per person. So if you won' want a solo room, it's double that.
00:49:22
Speaker
700 to about 1100 for a view balcony, like an ocean balcony balcony. So quite affordable for six nights, which includes all the food and all the events. um And then there's a hotel beforehand, which you know is not included in the ticket, but we all just... um hack that with points. um And I do help you pair with a roommate. So if you do want to come solo, but you don't want to pay the double price for a solo cabin, I will gladly find someone who I think you'll get along with and so far have been successful. And the other thing, the Scotland Castle is the first time I've done this event. And um this is kind of my question to the group is, you know, how do you price yourself so that you
00:50:06
Speaker
Cover your costs, make money, maybe. um And how do you decide what that looks like? Because with Scotland, it's my first time doing it. It's the first time I have to put a full deposit down on something. And I was really nervous about selling it out. um And so it's priced at $825 American for an entire week, um and then which is insanely cheap. um and But I realized my airfare isn't covered.
00:50:34
Speaker
I can't be throwing an event and not have my entire airfare covered, right? um Because that just seems a little bit ridiculous. And so I've noticed that I've always tried to go on the the lower side for pricing. um And that's just like something I need to work through. But I'm really curious how you guys price yourself, how you have the confidence to do that, and what that looks like um over time for you like up upping your prices. Steve, I want you to try to answer that and then we'll get into the campfire costs.
00:51:01
Speaker
okay So now I have a number of years, you know, of data that I kind of see what these are really going to cost early on. I just kind of didn't know I would just like, I know what the retreat centers are going to cost me and.
00:51:15
Speaker
I think at the time I was like, well, my expenses, like for me to live are X amount. And if I'm having X amount of events that I need to try to make at least this amount per event on average to cover my, and now sort of how I originally priced it. Now we've had some events that like lost a lot of money or a an event that lost a lot of money, but it was, it was a learning experience.
00:51:38
Speaker
So like it doesn't always go smooth. and so But that's that's how I sort of figured out what revenue, like what profit that I would like to make and then just base it off of that. Now, over the years, I've had a number of people say, you need to be charging more or you could charge more. I think it's a really still a really good value. Definitely was a really good value early on.
00:52:01
Speaker
And you know these retreat centers are increasing the prices every year too so i will whatever like for example texas next year ah we're coming up on texas this year. I'm getting ready to list the event Texas for next year. So now I need to think like what ticket price do I need to do that? And so I'm gonna assume because most retreat centers don't know what the next year's pricing is gonna be, I'm gonna assume that there's an increase. So I'll increase the ticket by that amount. Typically I will do that. Sometimes I'll go multiple years without raising prices, but after you can only do that for so long and then it catches up and you're like, okay, yeah, I need to do something.
00:52:36
Speaker
yeah But the other thing is like I've been able to make up a little bit of that difference on volume. you know like We've had more and more people come into the camps over the years, so I can keep the ticket prices lower because I'm making up some of that margin quantity ah increases. so But that's what I would do. that i was like first but And then there's those people who are like, well, what is the fair amount? Like what will someone pay for it and price it at that? I've heard, I've heard this strategy. What would, what do you think someone, the most someone will pay for it and price it and do that. And then if you can't sell tickets, reduce your price.
00:53:16
Speaker
I've also heard that if you are at 100% capacity, your prices are too high. Like be at 90% and then you probably- Too low. You mean your prices are too low. Too low. You said prices are too high, but you meant prices are too low. Correct. Exactly. Yes, yes, yes. If you're selling out quick, your prices are probably too low.
00:53:33
Speaker
ah Early on the camp five mission wasn't to make money. It was to grow and strengthen the in real life financial independence community. That was it. and And I can use that mission to guide me in a few different areas. One is if we have a really high percentage of returnees, that's strengthening, but it's not necessarily growing the in real life is where as camp five is concerned. So.
00:54:00
Speaker
you know, if it ever gets to the point where we're having like 80% returnees every time, I'll either ask them to start alternating years so that new people can get in, because that's the growing part, or I will add new events so that there's more spaces for the new people to keep coming in.
00:54:18
Speaker
but it But if I ever feel like, like so say I had like five events and they were the same 55, 60 people coming every time and I know that they're gonna come every year so I can keep raising the price and I just know they're gonna come. Like that would be like a money, a strictly money move and a strengthening move for the but the community. But it would have been a growing move. So I really do wanna keep.
00:54:41
Speaker
Price is as low as possible as long as I can still pay my bills. And one of the great things is the cost of living is really low. So I don't need to make a lot of money. So it kind of helps out with that. And I'm not an optimizer so just by nature. I'm not an optimizer. So I guess I don't lose sleep over and my pricing at high enough. I just want people to keep coming and having a good time. And as long as I'm able to to get by, I'm good with that.
00:55:05
Speaker
And I know you're the price for Camp 5 is varied depending on the venue. What's the lower range and what's the location and what's the highest range and what's that location? The lowest ticket is a chalet ticket at Camp 5 Mid-Atlantic, but that that gets you as a screened-in elevated porch in the woods.
00:55:25
Speaker
So if you're into camping and you just want to come and hang out and lodging isn't super important to you, or you just like camping, that's the thing to get. That's the one to get. Many people get those every year. I've done it. It was a great time. It's fun waking up in the woods and hearing nature and everything. It's, it's, it's wonderful as long as the weather's good. What's that price? So that's, I want to say it might be like 325. I haven't looked at it in a while, but I think it's around in the, in the low threes.
00:55:52
Speaker
Low to mid threes. And then probably the highest ticket we have is just over five. Like I've wanted to keep it at 500 or less, just cause something psychologically, I think happens when you see a ticket that's over 500 bucks. And I don't want to scare people away, but I think camp five Southwest is probably the most the more expensive ticket. So camp five. And that event's going to be coming up pretty soon, October 4th through the seventh here, about an hour from San Diego. It's in Julian, beautiful.
00:56:22
Speaker
mountain area, ah weather's just changing. It's very, very nice. Yeah. And then that one is also the highest cost for me too. Like that retreat center is is the most expensive retreat center of all retreat centers. So that explains why the ticket price. For anybody who just heard that and they're thinking the mid Atlantic If you go to that one, you're just gonna be sleeping in a screen and porch. They do have other options, like a hotel-ish type of options is there as well. Yeah, they have regular regular lodges yeah with walls and roofs and everything. PT, how is your...
00:56:53
Speaker
Now you think about all of this a little bit different. you're You lean a little bit more on the um capitalism spectrum and how you filter your decisions about FinCon. Completely respectable. Has that changed? How do you balance maybe some of the themes or philosophies that Stephen and Amberley have with that capitalist um mindset as well. Yeah. I just wanted to ah answer Amberley's question though first, if I could. Sure. How I think about pricing. I would think about multiple introducing multiple tiers.
00:57:29
Speaker
to what you're doing, not just beyond the cabin space, which does make sense, it's a natural way for people to pay pay more, um but just other things you could include in the event, other ways to connect them, other things to give them while they're there, places where you can add margin to what you're offering.
00:57:46
Speaker
I think people buying your ticket and saying for you steven they're buying a boutique experience even though these are fire people da've save their money and you know i prepared themselves for these experiences and so i think they're seeing it as a is a ah premium booty type of experience and so.
00:58:05
Speaker
um And they want to see you succeed they want to see you continue to do this and to thrive while you're doing this trying to make it even better from year to year to do that so that's ah in one way to just kinda say you have permission to do it but. Also ah working out the different ticket offers i would say look into what something that's helped me is looking into alex hormones and his books on on offers which has been very valuable in terms of.
00:58:31
Speaker
trying to find ways to kind of ah offer more um and sort of or make your make your price almost irrelevant right that's the that's the goal is to make the price sort of almost irrelevant for the for the folks who are getting cuz they wanna feel like.
00:58:47
Speaker
They're getting one over on you when they buy this from you, you know, and I get the sentiment of, uh, wanting to make it accessible and available to as many people as possible. And so we do that through FinCon through scholarships, which we've done through the past. We've done, uh, like I said, early bird entrant pricing, right? So those people who were just, they're hawking it, they're ready for, as soon as it opens, they're going to get at the cheapest price. So we appease them. But then for everyone who values.
00:59:12
Speaker
ah their flexibility and and things like that overtime they wait you know to the last minute receive more and more people wait to the last minute now it's like thirty forty percent of our ticket buyers coming the last month.
00:59:23
Speaker
um people are starting to value more, more flexibility post COVID. But anyway, that was a side note about those, my thoughts on pricing. I probably talked to you for days on that topic, but yeah, if I could just say thank you, I appreciate that. Um, especially coming from my background with like frugality and not having a lot, I always want to make it like really accessible, yeah but I love the idea of tiered pricing, especially when I'm not like, I don't make money off the cruise because it's a cruise line who makes the money.
00:59:51
Speaker
So having um more value add is a great idea. Thank you. yeah yeah And um I also have the benefit of ah you know having partners with my event, right? So 50% of my revenue comes from sponsors and exhibitors. And so traditionally how I've done it is try to pick one, ah either ticket sales or sponsors, exhibitors and saying, okay We want to meet our cost of the event from that side of the house, right? And so that's kind of the ultimate goal is for have one of those things meet the, the core costs of the event. And then we can sort of take that margin and make the event a lot better and do some other things, but also have a decent profit, you know, planned profit going in. But as we know with events,
01:00:34
Speaker
That keeps getting squeezed the tighter and tighter. You get to the event. Um, something that I also would suggest Amberley and Steven, I don't know if you do this, but like, uh, selling at the event itself, right? So sell your next event at the event itself. So then margin. And it takes the pressure off the singular event, having a lot of margin pressure on it itself and cashflow pressure itself, because you're collecting a lot of revenue for next year's event right there on site.
01:01:02
Speaker
ah for for the next year. And so, you know, you could usually float a lot of things if it if you're already collecting insurance revenue. So that's another suggestion. um David, I don't know if I answered everything you wanted there, but I'm happy to expound ah if I didn't there.
01:01:20
Speaker
Oh, no, I think you did. I think your response to Amberley actually covered okay that question as well. For this next question, let's go in order. Let's go PT, Stephen, and Amberley. You all got in this for a number of motivations, but I think we can agree that one that you all share is becoming a community builder and seeing real connections with real people around the topic of money or marketing or growth or creating, and that's the common one.
01:01:46
Speaker
So going forward, we want more people to do things like you you three are doing. I don't think any of you are like, that's my competitor. I can't, I don't want them to succeed. It's not like that. Everybody wants everybody to succeed because they want the community to grow. What advice would you give someone who maybe listen to this and and maybe whether they have the personality of an introverted accountant or and an extroverted multitasker ah What kind of advice would you give that person if they're interested in starting an event like this? I would say ah something that I stumbled upon early on was because I felt like I was doing this business on, I was borrowing it from an existing community, right? And I don't know if Steven and Amberlee feel this way as much because they,
01:02:35
Speaker
I've done a lot to foster their communities early on, but for me, I always felt like I was sort of borrowing an existing group of folks to come, you know, purchase from my business. And so I, from the outset opened the doors in terms of helping, you know, allowing them to help me create the event. Right. And so I took ah what's called considered, uh, I didn't know it at the time, but it's called the lean startup method, right? So where you basically, you know, try to put together a,
01:03:03
Speaker
you know, minimum viable product and you let your customer really help shape and form what you're putting together. And so I use my email list ah that I collected from the ah folks who were interested in the event before I could even sell them a ticket. And we started talking about things like who we want to speak, where we want to have it, what we want to do while we're there. And so the community really shaped the event and really created the product that they ultimately then bought.
01:03:28
Speaker
ah So that's what i would do is a lean on that now steven mentioned his own intuitions and i would not discount them because i had my own. Things i wanted to bet fencon as well and i made sure they were there and i would lean on that as well because you're the one.
01:03:43
Speaker
whose passion has bubbled up to this point to where you're crazy enough to say, I want to throw an event. And so I would lean on that as well and and mix that with the you know desires of the ultimate customer. And it's going to produce a better event, but it's also going to make them, when they show up and actually experience your event, they're going to feel like they're buying something that they made, which is even cooler.
01:04:05
Speaker
you know so ah And our people for me i have people that i trust to the ears of over index on trust versus talent not to say my people are talented. But i can let go of things a lot quicker and ah let my team handle things because i trust them that they're not going to harm me.
01:04:25
Speaker
ah They may screw up occasionally um and a last piece of advice with events is that mostly people know what to do when they get there so i first year i kinda tried to orchestrate every little step of the way and it's like no people know what to do in advance just kind of. Make the blueprint there and and let them sort of created on site for you um and so i would i would you know.
01:04:46
Speaker
Not feel like you need to kind of orchestrate every step and the same time things will screw up at an event and. Is as good of planning as we always do things will screw up and i tell my team this every year things are going to something's going to mess up. No and i don't say that to scare them is just the truth something will screw up and it might be big thing it might be a little thing.
01:05:06
Speaker
All that really matters is how we respond to that. And that's what I preach to them. It's the response that matters the most and people will forgive, you know, honest mistakes if you fix it right away or if you handle the apology the right way. So, uh, just be, you know, ready for those things to happen, but then quick to solve them. So. Yep.
01:05:27
Speaker
Yeah, thanks, Petey. That was a lot of good advice. What I would tell someone is, one, do it. If you're thinking about doing it, just do it. The first step I would say say would be to go to something that is close to what you're looking to do as possible. You can learn a lot from how somebody's already done it and doing it. You can learn a lot by being an attendee at one of those as the attendee and and And you can kind of say, well, as an attendee, I would have liked this to have happened. Or I think this would be a way to kind of alter the template that I'm looking at now for my event. So luckily, you know, I had gone to a camp mustache before and that was a wonderful event. So that was my starting point. That was my example that I had. Like I didn't create campfire from scratch.
01:06:21
Speaker
I went to a very similar event and tweaked it over the years the way I saw fit. Once we rebranded, I rebranded to Camp Phi. So that's what I would say. One, do it. Even if it's uncomfortable, especially if it's uncomfortable, do it. You'll learn a lot. You'll learn a lot about a process. You'll learn a lot about other people and you'll learn a whole lot of about yourself. And I think it's only going to help you moving forward no matter if that's your only event you ever do or if you end up doing 50 or or Anything that you go into is anytime you can learn something new about yourself i think that it gives you a confidence to move forward in whatever you're gonna do next so yeah do it. Find some an example to kind of work off of don't recreate the wheel and call him early and she'll help you out.
01:07:10
Speaker
It's true. I'll say yes. No, actually I have, I have someone who literally was like, Hey, we want to do an event in China. Like, how do we do this? So I had an hour call with them. um But great advice, Steven. And Amberly, what would be your advice?
01:07:26
Speaker
Yeah, I agree with everything that they both said. um The first step is just to do it. I'm a huge fan of that lean startup method, which is minimal viable product, meaning just get 15 people who maybe you trust to do the event with you um and try it out. You're going to learn so much from that first iteration and then you just move and and grow and and do better.
01:07:47
Speaker
The thing I do want to caution people on, which is two things. One, everyone is supportive until you ask them for money. So until there is money in your hands, um don't believe what people say. So that's something that I i really have learned over the years. um And then everyone's going to have an opinion on how you should do something. ah It's incredible. The people who have never been to a Fin Talks weekend tell me how to run a Fin Talks weekend. And that's my biggest thing, which is um they're going to have an opinion. You're allowed to like nod and smile and not do it. Or what I like to do, which everyone knows on the cruise is if someone tells me that the newest thing that they want on the cruise, I tell them to go do it themselves. So like you want everyone to share their social media. Okay, you go make that you know column in the spreadsheet for them to do it. Steven knows this well. I'm just like, go do that thing because that's not something I want to do.
01:08:42
Speaker
um So just take every penny in with a grain of salt ah because like PT said it you've got some intuitions and what Steven said you have some intuitions about the event what people actually want and they don't know what they want you can tell them PT Amber Lee and Steven we've talked for ah over an hour ah from my perspective and maybe from the perspective of somebody who's seeing and hearing about these events for the very first time and but y'all have been in it. You're in the weeds. ah You probably share some of the same successes and some of the same challenges. I'm gonna open it up and let you just chat with each other for a little bit, ask each other questions, and then we'll wrap up this episode. All right, so I have a question for PT. I wrote it down earlier. you' this You're coming up on your 14th FinCon, and I will be there.
01:09:32
Speaker
It's an hour and a half up the road from my house, so I'll be there. It'll be great. And hopefully, you know, we'll get to hang out a little bit. Yes, sir. But my question is, how many people have been to every single FinCon? Oh, to every single one. Right. Have you had anybody not miss any? Yeah. What about PT? PT, have you gone to every single one? I've gone to every one, yes.
01:09:56
Speaker
Um, I'm less and less involved every year, but I'm still there. Yes. Um, we have had around 10 folks, I think that are still left kind of eight eight to 10 folks who were kind of on that last list of been to each one. Yep. Nice survivors. Yeah, that's really cool. Yep.
01:10:13
Speaker
Yeah. I mean, uh, from the original 200, I certainly wish it was more, but, uh, it's, it's cool to to see, you know, having spent that a decade with those folks, you know, in some capacity and some have moved on to different projects and doing something entirely different or completely retired, but, uh, they still choose to come to our vendor each year, uh, which is real, which is really cool. Yeah. When you first started, there was probably part of you is like, I want all 200 people to come back next year. And then they didn't. And you're like, I wonder.
01:10:44
Speaker
you know you did you had to process that a little bit. So I was the same way with like people coming to camp five. It's like we have a lot of people who come to a lot of camp fives, but then we'll have people who'll just come to one. And then I never see them again. I'm like, well, I wonder if they had a good time or if they got anything out of it. and There's just no way to quantify that. And like early on, I was like, I just switched to some kind of a system where you could quantify like how much good you're putting out into the world. And like, you know, what the difference of net worth maybe that someone or or happiness or whatever that someone had.
01:11:11
Speaker
And ah you know i've I've just come to the realization that you have to just have faith that what you're doing is a good, positive thing you're putting out in the world. You clearly can't quantify it. You just, as long as people keep coming, then you're providing something of value and you just have to hold onto that. Just because somebody doesn't come back and buy that ticket for the next year or the next thing or the next widget or whatever that you put out, just understand that to have faith that you're putting good out into the world,
01:11:37
Speaker
And you probably did provide some value to those people, even if you don't ever hear anything. Right. and news from Yeah. There's so many more options these days, right? Post COVID, there's so many more events that popped up, a lot lot more opportunity for people. People's perspectives on being at places and spending time at things changed so much. And so most of them would rather be in their backyard, you know, oftentimes now these days.
01:12:00
Speaker
then, you know, getting on the airplane, go somewhere to do something like that. So it's hard to pull people away to events. We, we found that we grew every year until 2019. And so we, it was like, that was a question I had was, you know, why, you know, why aren't folks coming back? But more and more were coming every year. So it's like, I didn't have to think about it too much, you know? Um,
01:12:23
Speaker
But these days it's a little more you know we're lucky we're lucky we feel lucky to kind of get him when we get them and we want to try to give them ah experience that um gives them a community and i didn't say this david when you mention what's what's offered with the ticket but you can do get access to our facebook group um before the event so.
01:12:41
Speaker
um One of the things we try to offer with the ticket is what we call the little bit of the bonus sandwich where you get something before the event and something after the event. So that in, in, in both of those were aimed at um sort of knocking down objections to being a part of, to buying our ticket, right? A big objection is I don't know anybody, right? So what you do is you create the community beforehand so that you you get them used to each other beforehand. The other objection is, well, what if, you know, what if I don't see all the sessions while I'm there? And so, well, we'll give you the, you know, the the sessions afterwards. So we create that bonus sandwich for people.
01:13:17
Speaker
um To kind of make sure they're getting what they're getting and so in the perfect world then cons sort of solves their problem that year and then yeah they can they go take those things and Go do business with them and that exists for a while them not need to be at our event ah year after year, so we're seeing that more and more but um Certainly it'd be it'd be cooler if they all kept showing back up I have a question for you, Stephen. um How do you make multiple of boutique events profitable? like like Do you have a P and&L for the year thats that includes all 10 events and
01:13:52
Speaker
you know ah Do yeah you set a particular margin per each event? ah how how do How do you think about it in terms of planning out the year? Yeah, yeah so so like I bitched into Amberley earlier is I have the historical data. So I have an Excel spreadsheet with you know revenue and expenses actual over time. And so for next year, when I'm looking at what,
01:14:17
Speaker
Do I think that I might make next year? I start out with this year. I up the, I adjust the costs estimates for inflation and whatever the retreat center decides to do, you know, and then.
01:14:31
Speaker
and taxes and things like that. And then I just see, did I look at last year and like, did i do I feel like I made enough from that? you know if It's just not necessarily like hard hard and fast rules or whatever that that I'm trying to to do, but it's just like I look at that and it's like, that really wasn't worth it to me or that was worth it to me.
01:14:52
Speaker
And if it wasn't worth it to me, I will entertain the idea of increasing my ticket price for the next year to see if I can make it worth it. And that's just kind of how I do it. It's just ah it's a running ah running tally every year. So like I said earlier, I'm i'm getting ready to do, I'm looking at at next year's Texas. So I have most of this year's Texas finances nailed down, even though the event hasn't happened yet. And so I'll just kind of kind of tweak the expected expenses for next year. And then if I feel like I need to adjust the price to offset those added expenses, then I'll do that. Love it. Yeah. And and some some events are more profitable than others. Some last year were barely profitable. like But then you can you can learn that on the fly and make some adjustments for the next one coming up a month away.
01:15:40
Speaker
and I'll hopefully improve the margin. Yeah. Right. Yeah. Well, a month away would be too, too late for that particular event. Like I can't, I'm probably not going to go and change the ticket price a month beforehand, unless it's to reduce it because I need more people to be there much, you know, which will hurt the overall revenue estimate. But, but I do have like for the year ahead is good. So something else I'll also do is like, well, if the demand is high, but the revenue or the profit was low, for example, the Rocky mountain last year,
01:16:11
Speaker
It wasn't negative, but one of them was very close to not breaking even. But for whatever reason, this was 2020. twenty twenty 2023, so 2024 now, 2023 numbers is what I'm talking about. But this year, 2024, demand, like both of them were sold out and we had 130 people on the wait list. So even though like the revenue was there, which was good, it wasn't like and for each each event wasn't necessarily like optimized profit-wise, but it wasn't barely breaking even either.
01:16:44
Speaker
But I know the demand there is such that I can probably add a third event. And if it doesn't make as much money as the other two, that's fine, but I probably won't lose. So people will be like, hey, don't you wanna open up an event in the Northeast or the Northwest? Because I don't have those regions. I have you know Southeast, Mid-Atlantic, I have Texas, met Minnesota, the Midwest one in California, but I don't have Northeast and Northwest yet.
01:17:11
Speaker
But I'm trying to be very conservative as far as like expansion goes. If I feel like the demand is really there that is not much of a downside or much of a risk, then I'll interchange the thought of expanding. But it's been a lot easier to expand in the existing locations that have high demand, like Florida and Colorado Springs. So that's another way to make up a little bit of profit just through, again, like quantity.
01:17:36
Speaker
not necessarily like increasing the profit margin, but just the absolute profit is more because there's more people coming. Gotcha. Yeah. I have a question. How do you guys personally celebrate the wins from your events? Because we know they're exhausting. um You spend months and days fretting about it, things go wrong, and then the vet ends and you are like, the cruise takes me like three to four days to recover from. um So what do you guys do to celebrate?
01:18:05
Speaker
I don't anymore. Like I remember feeling, I remember me and David driving home after the very first camp that we did. And it was just like, we were talking about all the amazing people and like this person, that person, there was one woman there that was like really young. She might've even still been in college. And it was like, man, she's going to be, she's going to be set because she's already surrounded by all these people and she's got the mindset and now she has us this community to just help her out. So I don't know, like I don't really celebrate for me or anything like that, but I do.
01:18:33
Speaker
like sit back and try to think about all the people that I met and how amazing it is that I get to be a person that gets to bring these help bring these people together, that I get to meet these people personally. And it just, it helps me maintain focus on just my own personal finances and like my purpose, I guess. Um, for me, we, as a, as a team at the event team, so I have three folks who are kind of full-time for, it for me. Well, they are full-time. And then we have an additional contractor who has acted full-time essentially this whole time. He does work for other events.
01:19:08
Speaker
ah He's my av coordinator we do something on the saturday night after the conference is ending so we do a little mini celebration there. And then ah we typically get to hang out that next day in a casual way and so there's sort of a debrief and decompress with my team which is a lot of fun because we get to sort of.
01:19:31
Speaker
all feel that feeling of having accomplished the thing together and talk about the wins and losses and kind of think about things we might want to do for next year while it's fresh and just kind of celebrate. um And then for my team, it's you know it's a lot of time off after, so I try to you know kind of stay out of the slacks and not bug them as much post. Personally, I'm a I'm a family man so i get to spend more time with my family after and that typically means something is boring is like. Except being excited to like take the kids to school the next week and ah maybe if everyone's in school maybe i'll sneak out and play some golf that next week you know so that's probably what i do.
01:20:13
Speaker
And Amberlee, so how many shots of tequila do you celebrate with? ah Depending if I'm pregnant or not. um Yeah, i a same thing if you do where I come home and I'm trying to like if on the cruise, i I couldn't bring my husband because he doesn't have a visa to the US at that point. um He's Canadian. And so, hi buddy. um ah Speaking of kids, so I actually come home and try and you know,
01:20:34
Speaker
take on my share again. um And then I'm I'm trying to figure that out how to celebrate so um how to celebrate with people um in the community like who came or just by myself with our family. So I'm learning that I appreciate the input.
01:20:51
Speaker
Yeah. I mean, we put out the photos, we put together a little post conference reel that we share. So there's like little moments post conference that we kind of unravel that kind of helps us celebrate it and then remember it. Yeah. Got the crew there. a b block a block ear's all the Here's all the kids. That's the real reason to celebrate right there. Yeah, exactly.
01:21:17
Speaker
Well, thank you all three. I don't, I'm not sure that you've ever been in the same room or on the same podcast together, ah but it's awesome to have you all here and to just like Steven was saying, reflect on the amount of good that you're doing in the world. And in this case, you're three community builders that work together for probably exponential growth.
01:21:39
Speaker
of goodness out in the world. So thank you all for doing what you're doing. I hope that you can find the motivation to keep doing it. FinCon, CampFi, and FinTalks Cruise are all amazing events and I can't advocate that people attend them enough. Thank you again all for being here. I really do appreciate you taking the time as we can see that definitely multitasking is at place as we recording this. And I know you've all got big things to do ah today. So thank you so much again for your time.
01:22:09
Speaker
Thank you for having us. Thanks, David. This was awesome. Appreciate it. And thank you all for watching and listening.