Become a Creator today!Start creating today - Share your story with the world!
Start for free
00:00:00
00:00:01
🧓 Enough Money to Retire and Enough Money to Die, Law Trivia, and Deep Fried Tofurkey! 🦃
94 Plays21 minutes ago
📊 In this episode, we explore the dual definitions of "enough money" and discuss the practical and emotional shifts that come after reaching financial independence.
❓We share our thoughts about strategies for transitioning from wealth accumulation to life accumulation, managing legacy goals, and even share some laughs with a law trivia segment and deep-fried tofurkey anecdotes!
In this episode, we discuss:
1️⃣ Enough Money to Retire: How to calculate financial independence using the 25x rule and 4% withdrawal rate, and what it means to truly walk away from work.
2️⃣ Enough Money to Die: The importance of legacy planning, financial projections for end-of-life goals, and why dying with zero might not be the answer for everyone.
3️⃣ Mindset Shifts After FI: The challenge of transitioning from saving to spending and aligning money with your values in retirement.
4️⃣ Spending in Retirement: Practical steps to intentionally spend money on experiences, relationships, and what truly brings joy.
5️⃣ Memory Dividends in FI: How creating lasting experiences with loved ones offers returns far greater than money can.
🔗 David’s Links:
🏖️ How to Spend Money Guilt-Free in Retirement! | Mark Trautman & Kevin Sebesta
📘 The Top Five Regrets of Dying book
🍏 Forget About Money on Apple Podcast
🎧 Forget About Money on Spotify
#financialfreedom #retirementplanning #financialindependence #moneymindset #legacyplanning
🎧 Listen & Subscribe: Don’t miss out on this engaging discussion about redefining “enough” in financial independence and legacy planning. Hit subscribe and the bell icon 🔔 to stay updated on future episodes!
📜 Disclaimer: This episode is for informational and entertainment purposes only. It is not financial advice. For tailored advice, consult a certified financial planner or advisor.
Recommended
Transcript
Introduction and Theme
00:00:00
Speaker
Welcome to the Forget About Money podcast where we talk about a money-related topic and then we forget about money and then we just keep on talking. Sounds fun to me. Come in. Carla is with us again, and today we are going to be talking about enough. Carla, do you have enough? I think I do. I think I do. Have you had enough of this podcast already? I've had it. I'm out of here. Mic drop. See, my mic's on a big armstand. You can't throw it on the ground. It's very intense, Mike. I've had enough of this cold weather. Oh my gosh. What is it in San Diego? Is it like 62? What's going on? Alexa, what's the weather outside?
00:00:36
Speaker
66. Oh, I thought I heard her say 60 TR. I got really excited about my psychic powers. But I did turn on a space heater last night for the first time. Okay. And it is a little chilly where I'm sitting right now. Oh my gosh. I'm so sorry about that. That sounds really rough. We're long sleeves today.
00:00:53
Speaker
I mean, same, but I am in Colorado. I took a walk this morning and it was like 30 degrees when I took a walk, but I actually, it's going to warm up a lot today. I think we're going to hit 60 later today, which is pretty remarkable. So all that snow is melting. Oh my gosh. It's like, it never happened. I mean, I can see it way up in the mountains, but down here in Longmont second, never happened. Zero snow left
Defining 'Enough' in Financial Independence
00:01:14
Speaker
today. We're talking about enough, enough. What for many of the financial independence community, it's do I have enough money to retire?
00:01:21
Speaker
who Great question. And we really get locked into that. Yeah. And I agree with that. I mean, that's how you reach financial independence. You have to figure out whatever that number is and attempt to reach it.
00:01:34
Speaker
It's a very powerful question, very powerful ah thing to achieve in life, but. But, there is a but. There's always a but. After that, once you reach financial independence, then what? I think you can think about enough in two phases. One is, and they're both, maybe the second is actually more important than the first, but in two phases, enough money to retire and then enough money to die. And I know that sounds startling.
00:01:59
Speaker
It just sounds, i so when I hear you say that, I think I'm pretty sure that it is free to pass away. There are typically not costs incurred in the act of death. I guess that's not totally true. There's like hospice care and stuff for a lot of folks, but you know, just passing away peacefully in your bed at night, which is what we all are like fingers crossed is going to have enough. That is free. So yeah, explain that a little bit. David, what do you mean by enough money today? That's going to be a teaser. Let's talk about how much money you need to retire first.
00:02:29
Speaker
Oh, okay. Gonna leave people hanging in suspense. I like it. When did you ask yourself that question?
Carla's Financial Journey
00:02:35
Speaker
And then how did you determine the answer, Carla? So I think I probably, I actually remember thinking about this before I found Mr. Money Mustache's blog, which I didn't, it's very tale as old as time, at least around these parts. Like that's how most people discover the concept of phi. But I remember thinking about it before I found Pete's blog.
00:02:56
Speaker
because I was making good money as an attorney and my husband and I have always just been pretty naturally frugal. So we were stockpiling money into just literal checking accounts with like a 0% interest rate, which was very upsetting to reflect on, but that's what we were doing. And I remember like looking at that money as it was accumulating and thinking about, well, how much roughly do we need to live on every year? And because I didn't know anything at all about investing, I would just take the number in our checking account.
00:03:26
Speaker
and like divide it by the number. like How many years worth of expenses could we possibly cover as that number grew? and That was like my first thought about how much could I possibly need to retire. and I remember thinking, like well, this is just completely insurmountable. like That's so much cash that you have to have on hand because I didn't understand the power of investing in like compound growth. I remember Thinking about that, I graduated from law school in 2008, probably in 2011-ish. I first started thinking about it because we had like a few years of savings piled up. and I was like, how much how much are we really going to need? and Then I found Pete's blog in 2014, I believe. and Then I was like, had exploding, so many different thoughts about you know changing our investment strategy. Obviously, it was priority number one.
00:04:23
Speaker
And then just thinking about like, oh, if we actually get some growth on this money, that'll be so much more powerful. So yeah, I think it was probably in about 2014 when I first started thinking about that concept in earnest and focusing on it and really chasing that dream of having enough
David's Military Pension and Balanced Life
00:04:42
Speaker
to quit. What about you?
00:04:43
Speaker
Well, before I did stumble upon the shockingly simple math article, I would just invest and invest and invest. And I didn't really know, we always, you always hear the say 15% of your income until you're 65, then you can play golf forever.
00:04:59
Speaker
That just seemed kind of something like benign wording to me. That's why I do like the the clear definition set for financial independence, which is 25 times your annual spending ah hair and your annual lifestyle expenses. That gives you like a real logical glu goalpost to aim for. Yeah.
00:05:18
Speaker
In my particular case, it's a little bit different because I was military and I could calculate a pension into that, basically reverse engineer the pension amount, and it's a good deal. I know many people don't have that, but did it did allow me to achieve financial independence sooner than many, or it allowed me to live a little bit of life while I was going through my career, my 20s and 30s, early 40s, rather than just hoard, hoard, hoard money, or invest, invest, invest, invest, and and don't do those things.
00:05:45
Speaker
But it is a mindset, right? So I did a achieve financial independence at 43.
Mindset Shift Post-Financial Independence
00:05:50
Speaker
And once somebody wants to achieve financial independence, you go from the wealth accumulation phase and you shift to what I like to call is like a life accumulation phase.
00:06:01
Speaker
It's less about the money. It's less about the wealth. It's more about living your life the way you want to live it and the way you've designed it and in accordance with your values without the distraction of work and maybe some other challenges if you didn't have the money. But I do see, we go to campfires and different events and one topic that continues to come up over time is life after phi. here Great. You've got your 25 X or however you got to that amount, you're there. Hit the definition of financially independent, but then what? That's life after phi or life in phi.
00:06:31
Speaker
For me, I'm a planner. I'm very analytical. I want to know why something is and I want to be able to put habits in place to maximize and get to whatever planned objective I'm reaching for. And something that I have struggled with is how to really, I'm a compartmentalizer kind of thinker and I don't think you can do this with this mindset.
00:06:51
Speaker
When I say this, I mean, how do you manage money from the time that you hit financial independence to the time that you die? So you've already achieved enough money to retire. Now, there is a mindset shift needed because it's not the same mindset. You didn't reach a number just so that you can continue to grow a number. That would be the same mindset. Yeah. Once you reach that number, you have to remember why you did it.
00:07:16
Speaker
and It's not to very likely, the primary reason is not to just keep accumulating wealth in an account somewhere. Yeah. to live the life he wanted and live, you know, whatever fulfilling way that you saw this playing out for you personally and maybe for your family or loved ones. So you have to have a mindset shift, but what defines that mindset shift? So you hit retir financial independence or you retire however you want to phrase it at whatever age. For my case, let's say 43, I'm 47 now, so I've been financially independent and I still don't have this figured out really. That's one of the reasons we're having this conversation, Carl, is so I can kind of think through it.
00:07:55
Speaker
Let's build your life.
Planning for Future Experiences
00:07:56
Speaker
Let's fix all these problems. Please. And so at some point we're all going to die. money I'm not really sure I'm not, but everybody else is, obviously. Hey, we do have we both have a good number of years. Who knows what science has going to happen with science? I've seen some some Netflix shows that seem look look pretty promising for technology. Yes, that's true. So talk to me about your mindset shift. So you've been retired for four years now. So how have you been thinking about spending your money in retirement? And I think more importantly, spending your time in retirement, what has that shift been like for you?
00:08:32
Speaker
well Well, I think they're they're not mutually exclusive, really, because one impacts the other. Sure. And I think that's where we don't give a lot of thought to, really what impacts it. I think there's some assumptions in the first mindset that aren they don't pan out as particularly true in the second mindset and that first and that and that life accumulation stage. It's different than the wealth accumulation. So when we're accumulating wealth, we think, oh my gosh,
00:08:58
Speaker
build, build, build, can't ever run out. Let's put all these habits in place, limit this, constrain that to get to this number. Rightfully so, honestly, like I'm a huge proponent of grind it out until you get the number and then you can relax. I know ah some people don't agree with me on that, but that's my personal take on it. yeah That's what we did. So yeah, I'm not, I'm not that diametrically opposed to either. there So you have to be careful not to fall into the same mindset when you're supposed to be living your life and re-prioritizing how you spend your time, money, energy. but But as a planner, I want to know what the objective is. Well, I'm going to die one day. And really only recently I've had some conversations. One was with Mark Troutman and Kevin Sabaste, very wise, cool people. For sure. And they are on my case about spending some money.
00:09:47
Speaker
Like, David, you got money. Go spend it. Don't worry about it. You're gonna be good. Go ahead. And they know they're a decade beyond me in life and have my bestest best interest in mind. And I understand that. So I can respect what they're saying. And it's gotten me thinking a lot more about maybe I really do need to put my nose to the grindstone and figure out, okay, what when I die, what do I want to have happen? For my planning purposes, I have, again, very general, I don't know, but I've got two kids.
00:10:17
Speaker
When I die, I don't really care about money. I'm dead. But I also don't necessarily think it's valuable to the kids to leave them a trillion dollars. to Are you all confessing to having a trillion dollars? Is that what's happening here? Maybe if I don't do anything of what I'm going to say and and get in good with Elon Musk, perhaps. yeah yeah But what that really means in practical planning terms is you got to make some assumptions. And those assumptions are things that you assume to be true until they prove otherwise. So my planning assumption was I'm going to die. That's pretty true until proven otherwise by science and Netflix. yeah And the other is i for planning purposes and the sake of this conversation, let's say I give my kids 300K each. that's Now I've got a goalpost, just like we had the goalpost to 25X.
00:11:00
Speaker
yeah Now I've got a current situation as far as resources, I can evaluate those, make further assumptions about how each aspect of that is going to grow or not grow, and then throw it in somebody's cool calculator and figure out how much I can spend where when I dial, meet my objective. And what that does is with that shift of mindset where before you're just in the wealth accumulation,
00:11:24
Speaker
phase, you just want to see grow, grow, grow. And when you're financially independent and it's not about the money, then you can focus on the not about the money part. sir I don't know if I coined it, but I like to think I coined the phrase, once you have enough money, it's never about the money. But my problem is I don't really do a good job of living up to that phrase. I still wonder, I still attempt to, I probably think about the market timing too much. I probably Yeah, I probably just think about money too much. And now part of it is we're on upon money podcast. I get it. But it's called forget about money, David, we're supposed to be forgetting at some point. And I think and that's why it's called that because I think the ultimate objective of financial independence is to forget about money.
00:12:05
Speaker
Yeah, I very much agree with that. Yeah. Yeah. One of our friends, Bill Melter, who's a co-owner of the HQ space, I've heard him say before, you should approach everything as though it's free. Think about, because every object you bring into your life, you are taking responsibility for that. Like you're either going to have to throw it away someday or give it away someday.
00:12:26
Speaker
or store it somewhere, like think very carefully about every single object you bring into your life. But think of it as though it's free and don't focus on the money part. Think about the actual value it's going to add to your life, the physical space it's going to take up in your house, the time it will take to you know maintain this thing. So yeah, think about things that you're going to ah acquire from that perspective and not from the dollar perspective because so everything is free.
00:12:50
Speaker
which I think is a very healthy perspective to have. Once you've reached a certain level of wealth, then you should be forgetting about money. So yeah, what do you think about that? Can you just snap your fingers and immediately make that mental shift thinking everything's free? I just take it. So then it's always free. I don't have to worry about it.
00:13:08
Speaker
I don't know if you know this, David, but I am actually a lawyer, so you probably shouldn't confess things to me. and what We'll see what you know about law here in a little bit. i like yeah I'm actually quite nervous about this. I'm getting a test later.
Managing Money After Retirement
00:13:19
Speaker
so I think it is important to understand the value of whatever year, whether it be people, whether it be things.
00:13:25
Speaker
whether it be ideas, whether it be noise, media, whatever it is. I think it sort of kind of goes back into the the default mechanism of receive only when you're talking about consumerism as well. If you can control, identify your values, and really analyze what's going on around you, you can shape to where you really just focus on the things that bring you joy or value, however you want to define those things. Things worth worrying about versus a laissez-faire attitude of spending money on this, spending time on that.
00:13:53
Speaker
dealing with a person that you really just don't like being around. So I'm curious about a couple of things. One, what is it that Kevin and Mark are pushing you to spend money on? And do you feel like there are areas where you can turn your happiness style up a little bit if you spend more money on it?
00:14:10
Speaker
So they travel, they do a lot of traveling. I don't particularly have the travel bug. That could be a very good way to spend large chunks of money. Yeah. And you could do it economically too. I mean, and there's a lot of hacks like that in the financial independence community. Got it. But for me, I'm pretty simple. I like a routine. I don't, I don't particularly find that much value in traveling. When I do travel, it's usually to just a a city in Mexico, quick, go down to Tijuana and jump on a $200 flight, hang out on Airbnb for a week and come back. And that's,
00:14:40
Speaker
at this point in my life that works for me. Fair enough. But also my biggest priority right now is being a parent. So if I'm doing those things, if I'm being a good parent and just to get a human being, like I'm happy. I'm happy. That's my happiness level. I don't, I haven't really thought through if I do this while I'd be happier. I'm just, I'm default happy despite my the stoic to press look I have on my face most days. I'm a happy person. I look at the world and optimistic. and'm I'm not looking for other things to make me happy. That's just kind of like how my mindset works. I'll be fortunate in that way. Yeah, I think so. I think there's a lot of luck in like brain chemistry that goes into that. But I feel very much in the same boat. I have always been just a very baseline level, very happy person.
00:15:30
Speaker
And even when I'm in like tough situations, like my old job was very stressful, very demanding, long hours. As long as I am getting enough sleep, I think that is a huge factor for me. And as long as I am like you know reasonably well fed, I think that's another factor I can get angry. But with those two things, I'm pretty happy all the time.
00:15:50
Speaker
Yeah, I think the travel thing is interesting too. I think that might be a fun tangent to explore a little bit because yeah, I do think there are a lot of people in the fire community who are super, super into it and that's what they want to do with their time. Robert and I traveled a lot in 2019 and we had a lot of fun. We really, really did. Also, we had just never been anywhere. like We had so much pent up travel desire built up. But by the end of that year of travel, we were kind of like,
00:16:16
Speaker
Like another beautiful thousand year old church. It's wonderful. And we fully recognize that we are being like the world's biggest brats, but we're just kind of tired of them. We're just exhausted from this whole process of seeing all these things day after day after day. And I also think if you like meet them out a little bit more slowly instead of packing so much in, you actually get a lot more enjoyment out of that. So.
00:16:42
Speaker
if you're just constantly travel, travel, traveling, at least for me and for Robert as well, it got a little bit old. And I, we were craving that sense of home, that sense of community, that sense of purpose. Like all three of those things were harder for us to have while we were just traveling all the time. So I know for a lot of folks, that is like the be all end all of the Fi, you know, that's what's at the end of the Fi rainbow. There's just constant travel.
00:17:09
Speaker
For me, I think I would be careful with that because for a lot of folks, you do just get burned out. And it's not the like ultimate solution to happiness. At least it wasn't for me, it wasn't for Robert. And I think that's the case for a lot of folks. So yeah, I think that's something to be cautious with, at least handle with care.
00:17:29
Speaker
That's not an uncommon tale. You hear that a lot. in Like I'm going to travel, I'm going to travel. And then six months after they hit fire and travel, they're like, I'm back. I'm ready to ah buy a house and settle down. Yeah. Yeah. And that's exactly what we did. Exactly. So.
00:17:43
Speaker
Mark and Kevin introduced me to this cool concept of memory dividends. So we think of financial dividends, but in the post-FI world, life and fi, after you reach the fi number, then that mindset shift can go from financial dividends to memory dividends. Yeah. I think I hope I'm saying it correctly. No, you are. that's I've heard them talk about that too.
00:18:06
Speaker
And what that is, is you're trading money, you're focusing on creating memories and experiences with people that you care about and yourself rather than focusing on the number. I'm still working on it, but as a parent, i that's caused me to ask more questions of, more questions like, what does Quentin want to do?
00:18:24
Speaker
And he's 10 and a half now. And as I understand it, a few years from now, he's not going to want anything to do with me, which is natural. It's part of kids growing up. But what can we do right now for him to, for us to have memories together that we can both appreciate and and cherish over time? Still working on it. But like me, he's he's sort of a homebody. I was asking him, do you want to go do this? Do you want to say like, no, I just want to stay at home. All right.
00:18:48
Speaker
Yeah, I do think those you know unique things that you do, the things that you just you're not doing all the time, those are the things that tend to stick in your memory and be really special. So yeah, when I reflect back on my childhood, the best memories that I have with my family were not necessarily like big vacations that we took. i we We did take some and I do have fond memories of those.
00:19:12
Speaker
But I think the absolute fondest memories that I have are more just the special things that we would do in our more day to day life. So yeah, I mean, we used to grill and watch movies like all the time we would do that often on the weekends and it was so special and we all like looked forward to it and I have such fond memories of that. My family really likes movies so a lot of my childhood memories revolve around that. We would go to a lake in Texas that was really beautiful and I have a lot of really, really fond memories of
00:19:47
Speaker
being at the lake with my family, those kinds of things that you do, they don't necessarily have to be bombastic or flashy. I think they just have to be intentional. And I think a lot of it is about just kind of shutting everything else out and really focusing on each other and like some special activity that you're doing together. And I think that's still true for us today, especially as we all have these, you know, devices in our pockets,
00:20:13
Speaker
shutting those things off and just focusing on each other. like Those are some of the best memories that I feel like I'm making as an adult or just intentional activities with friends where we're all act like actually doing something together. you know Those are the things that really stand out to me. and Travel can be part of that too. I think taking trips with people can help foster that sense of shutting everything else out and focusing on each other and focusing on cool activities together. But it doesn't have to be in you know, Costa Rica or Portugal to do that. You can do that in your hometown too. So ah that's my two cents on it. Whatever I do, I'm sure will be low key compared to some of the stories I hear about others.
00:20:54
Speaker
They're hearing about others. This sounds like. They're pretty cool in Bali. I think a whole group of people got back from Bali. Yeah. They're coming back. see Yeah. Right now they're almost done.
00:21:05
Speaker
There's cruises, there's a lot of people go to Portugal a lot, Thailand. yeah I would like to go to some of those places at some point though. I think it'll be fun. Same, same. I just don't want that to be my whole life revolves around those trips. I want to have other senses of purpose and meaning and community. I think that's my recipe for happiness.
00:21:23
Speaker
So from the nerdy standpoint of financial management, I've started thinking about what the X's and O's mean then after you hit that number. So for example, you have a million dollars and you're, when you die, this is all simplicity. I mean, there's a lot of other things. There's social security involved. There's compound interest, all kinds of things for simplicity of conversation. You decide that you're going to leave two kids, $300,000 each. Now the gap between. That is your cost of dying. Is that right?
00:21:53
Speaker
Right. That's what I would, that's how I, for this conversation, that's what I would want to have happen when I die. Got it. So then there's a planning assumption there. So now you can go back and if you're at 60 years old and you have a portfolio of a million dollars, there's that gap of $400,000, which opens up a whole lot of options for you. her rather than just just watching it mildly creep up until you die, or probably not mildly. I mean, a million dollars, of course, of a 30-year period is going to look pretty decent. But that's the point of thinking through this, because it's going to continue to grow. But how do you trade that growth for those memory dividends?
00:22:30
Speaker
yeah Maybe you're not buying that 10, 10 year old Honda Accord anymore. You can go buy the $110,000, well, by then I'll be $210,000 GMC truck. But why not? You know, at that point, if it's not about the money, it's about, you know, whatever you decide it's about. Yeah. yeah Practically, it's very hard to shift from a wealth accumulation mindset to a decumulation mindset.
00:22:55
Speaker
It is for sure difficult, but I think spending on things that really bring you joy and happiness, if you're just very intentional about it and you really think carefully, I think it's easier to get over that hump because you know like this is actually going to improve my life in this specific way.
00:23:14
Speaker
For me, a GMC truck would not improve my life in any possible way. I cannot imagine anything less enticing to me to buy than a GMC truck or a truck of any kind. But like if you can sit down and have an honest conversation with a trusted friend and say, this is what I'm thinking about buying, here's how I think it will improve my life, what are your thoughts on that? Can you like poke holes in that theory for me?
00:23:42
Speaker
and just like talk it through. And if you come to the conclusion that something really is going to benefit your life, and you've already done that math of, okay, I want to die with $600,000 left in my estate, so I'm earmarking. I mean, maybe it's only a couple hundred thousand dollars if you're young, and know it has a lot of time to grow. So everything else that I have is available to me for spending.
00:24:03
Speaker
If you've done that math and you feel confident in it, and you've got this extra cash floating around, I mean, absolutely, I say go through those conversations, figure out what's really going to bring you joy, and spend money on it because what else is it there for, right? It's not doing anybody any good, just sitting in the bank.
00:24:23
Speaker
Again, I struggled with this as soon as I hit financial independence. And I was like, maybe I've been retired for maybe six months. i'm like kind And i can i can like guess I can compartmentalize with the best of them and I can logically connect. And and i even my habits can reflect that most times, but but I still went back to investing $2,000 a month
Habits and Mindset Challenges
00:24:41
Speaker
of my income into VTS AX just because I wanted to see it keep going. So I'm not through this whole mindset shift yet. And it's been three and a half years.
00:24:51
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, we're we're there too. We've we've hit our number, but we continue to work. And instead of spending all that extra money that we don't need to be investing anymore, we are continuing to save it. I don't think that's nuts, though, as long as you can look at your life and not identify your areas where you really feel like this could be improved or that could be improved, because I mean, you could always donate more. You could always have more to pass on to your kids if that's something you really want to do.
00:25:20
Speaker
So I don't think it's inherently bad thing. I know a lot of people in the fight community have made a big 90 degree turn into like spend, spend, spend, die with zero, which I think hopefully we're going to talk about at some point, but I don't think there's anything wrong with saving more than you actually need. As long as you can look at your life and feel good about it and not see areas where, oh my gosh, if I were only doing this, like my life would be so much better.
00:25:45
Speaker
So I'm curious, ah was there anything specific that you like wrestled with that you thought, oh man, my life would really be better if I spend money on fill in the blank, but I just can't bring myself to do it. Do you have anything like that in mind? No, I think it goes back to just being default happy. Yeah, same. That's not true. I have been wanting a new car. I've always, when I was a kid, I did always want like a GMC Sierra 1500 truck, ah but then I can't get past that damn sticker shock when you go look at them.
00:26:14
Speaker
So let's have that conversation and I'll be your trusted friend. what What do you think that would add to your life? You already have a negative bias towards GMC trucks, apparently. It's true. Well, just trucks in general. I just don't get the point of them. But let's convince me, persuade me that this is really going to make your life better. But it won't. I just want it. And that's why I haven't managed because I know it's not going to make my life any better. It's just something I want.
00:26:39
Speaker
How much do you drive? Like how many hours do you spend in your car each week? Not enough. Not enough for that. Okay. No. So there's no, there's no, there's practically no reason for me to get the truck. That's, it's just because I want one. Every time you climb in it, would you feel?
00:26:53
Speaker
More manly, yes. More manly. Ooh, that's a barrel. I mean, it's hard. It's hard for me to imagine and even more manliness, but yeah. Okay. It's compensating for something. You would feel more manly. that I mean, that is a real factor, I suppose to consider. It's a little hard for me to relate to, but I support you in this. Thank you so much. Would you feel like cocooned and luxury would it would it make you feel like special and safer and I don't know just like way more comfortable.
00:27:24
Speaker
There are, I know where you're going with this, but practically I've already thought of this stuff and there's no logical reason other than just a want. and Okay. and i've ah those are valid yeah and And at some point maybe we'll talk about like lessons learned since retirement. I do, I generally think that because I want to do something or because I don't want to do something, it's completely fine. Sometimes you don't need any more justification than that. As long as you're not infringing on the rights of others to do the same.
00:27:51
Speaker
Very important caveat. But I do not have the truck and I probably will not get it anytime soon. It's not very practical for where I live. Fair enough. But one thing I have been thinking about is, do I take a certain amount of my investments and just putting in a checking account, just that one shift? I know the money's there. I know I've got money. I don't keep money in my checking account too much. anyway Maybe, I don't know, 15, 20 grand. But if I increase that and then gave myself. And Kevin Sebastian, he's just like, you have, he sets time periods to which he has to spend, he has to spend a certain amount of money. And that kind of forces you to transition out of the other mindset into the new mindset. yeah I think that's probably what it's going to take to do it. I just don't know if I'm ready yet to implement that strategy.
00:28:35
Speaker
I mean, you could always start with a small experiment. Give yourself like force yourself to spend an extra $200 a month, like something relatively modest and see how it feels. These are fun problems to have though. I like these problems. Carla, in our last episode, we talked about first jobs and your first job was as an LSAT instructor, which to me implies that you probably did pass the bar when you finally took it.
00:29:00
Speaker
I sure did. Yeah. But are you still current on your law knowledge? It's a big question. So I haven't been practicing nearly as much for like the past five, five years now it's been five years. So I've forgotten a lot. Yeah. I think I know where you're going with this and I'm, I'm not super jazzed about it. I'm going to be honest with you, but throw me under the bus. It's cool. I can take it as we've established. I am a baseline happy person. I think I can recover.
00:29:26
Speaker
Okay, we are forgetting about money right now. We are shifting to quizzing each other about random topics. Yep. So I typed in a chat GPT, give me 10 basic law questions that I could ask, and we'll see how you do. So I'm going to ask Carla five questions, multiple choice, and then I have no idea what she's going to ask me, and and we'll we'll see. So this is... Are you ready?
00:29:51
Speaker
as it ready as all your can i I took the bar in 2008 and we are recording this in 2024 just for the record. ah he's still barred yeah do you Are you still Are you legally still all year? I am legally still allowed to practice law, that is correct.
00:30:10
Speaker
until you answer these questions and somebody sees it. And you're gonna get reported. Here we go. Question one, these are multiple choice. came What is the primary purpose of a contract? A, to dictate criminal penalties. B, to formalize an agreement between parties. C, to establish constitutional rights. D, to set a deadline for court filings.
00:30:32
Speaker
Okay, surely you feel like you can answer this question, right? Like, this has got to be the most basic question I could possibly imagine the answer is... Yeah, you don't know the answer. Yeah, you're stalling. Was B the one to formalize an agreement between two people? That was correct. You're one for one. Question number two. one better what What are the three elements of a contract? Do you know? I'm asking the questions. I'm not the lawyer. Offer acceptance and consideration.
00:31:01
Speaker
Now you're just showing off. It really would come for my bar card if I couldn't answer that. Okay. All right. Let's keep going. You're one for one. Question number two. Which of the following is required to prove negligence? A, contract. B, intent. C, duty of care. D, consent. ah C, duty of care. Very good. You're two for two. Okay. Okay. Just enough. The legal knowledge here.
00:31:25
Speaker
Question number three, what does the term precedent ah refer to in legal practice? wait can you so I feel like we should clarify for the audience that precedent is spelled P-R-E-C-E-D-E-N-T, not P-R-E-S-I-D-E-N-T. and Just show it off. No, I feel like the word precedent and president are very easy to mix up. I'm just clarifying for the audience.
00:31:49
Speaker
what did Did I mispronounce it? That's a precedent? No, you said it perfectly. I just feel like it's an easy, it's like, oh gosh, is it homonym? I think that's homonym. Yeah, it's almost a homonym. Are we going to go to another tangent where you prove how smart you are? This is not going well. Here we go. What is the term precedent in legal practice? A, a guideline for legal fees. B, a previous court decision that influences future cases. C, a deadline for filing a case. D, a form of government structure.
00:32:17
Speaker
ah The answer is B. B, you're three for three. Congratulations. Question number four, what is due process? A, the right to a fair trial. B, the amount of time to file an appeal. C, a negotiation process in contracts. D, a requirement for all legal documents to be notarized.
00:32:36
Speaker
The correct answer is A. You've got an 80% on this quiz so far. Question five. Wait, are you saying I didn't get it right so far? Or you mean like... Oh, here we go. I'm just looking at math. Yes, four for four, but there is a total of five. Gotcha, gotcha. Your trend line is in the good direction. Okay. I think you can get a hundred percent. Okay. let me Okay. Let me quickly find the hardest one I could find. Come on. they got these Let's see.
00:33:02
Speaker
okay here we go which of the following is a common defense and a defamation case a consent b truth sea negligence d duress Truth is a valid defense to to defamation. So I forget which letter it was, but truth. Carla, I and every listener and every one of your clients is proud of you. Got a 100%. I don't think they'll be coming to disbar you anytime soon. That is a huge relief. I would have been very, very sad if I hadn't gotten these right. Okay. So turnabout is fair play. I get to ask you some questions. Can I ask you legal questions? Does that
00:33:42
Speaker
You can ask me... I may not answer them, but you can ask me any question you like. Okay. Okay. So you are... Is it multiple choice? No, I didn't do multiple choice. Sorry. You don't get... I can just make up questions like... You can make up answers too. I don't... Okay. So you like music. I like music. So I thought I would ask you a music question or two and then... because you grilled me about my career. I'm going to ask you a couple of questions about the Navy as well because I just can't resist. We're going to start with a softball music question. Which band wrote and performed the hit song Bohemian Rhapsody? The lead singer is probably the best male vocalist in history that I can think of, Freddie Mercury. The band is Queen.
00:34:29
Speaker
Very good job. Very good job. and You did a bonus point for knowing Freddie Mercury as the lead singer and for calling him the best male singer of all. I mean, maybe Michael Jackson. I don't know. okay This one I think is fun. i I don't know if you'll know this. I think I knew this from like a trivia game way back in the day because we play a lot of trivia games. What was the first music video played on MTV when the channel launched in 1981?
00:34:54
Speaker
Video killed the radio star. Yeah. Good job. Bonus point. Do you know who that song was by? Who who played video killed the radio star? I'll be really impressed if you know this because I definitely do not know this. Yeah. A band called the Bugles. I don't know anything about the Bugles. Sounds like a plush animal. It does. It sounds like Teletubbies or something. I feel like the Bugles would hang out with the Teletubbies. Okay. That would be an interesting video. um Okay, it's about to get harder. We're going to move into the realm of the Navy. Who was the first person to hold the rank of Admiral in the United States Navy? I do not know. Okay. I would have been really, really impressed if you had. I had no idea either. David Farragut? Oh, Farragut. Is that a thing? Farragut. That's a person you've heard of? Farragut, yeah. Okay, there we go. There was a road here in San Diego named Farragut. Ah, they're perfect.
00:35:47
Speaker
Navy town, San Diego. Navy town. Okay, this is one that I just thought was kind of hilarious. You don't want to play anymore. It's it's too late, you're probably committed. on to answering five questions for me. Okay, which U.S. Navy ship famously carried the message, Remember the Maine during the Spanish-American War? I'll give you a hand. Constitution. Pay attention to the question. Which U.S. Navy ship famously carried the message, Remember the Maine during the Spanish-American War?
00:36:18
Speaker
I don't know. Are you going to say it's the Maine? Yes. The answer is the USS Maine. Like that just feels, why were they carrying a message that said, remember us? That seems strange. Conceded. I don't know. There must be more. self structures maybe Obviously we need to learn our history. Okay. This one I think is fun. I'm guessing you know this. I didn't know it, but I bet you will. The US Navy's elite SEAL teams are best known for their specialized missions. What does SEAL stand for?
00:36:46
Speaker
Hmm. You're right. I should know this. I'm holding on to some seals. I mean, David Goggins would go way back. Oh. Not true. Yeah. Special expeditionary aquatic life killing people. awesome ah No, it's like way more basic than that. I don't know if that helps you out. Sink like... Scuba explosive.
00:37:11
Speaker
No, way more basic than that. I think like general places that people go, I don't know, if like fight. I don't know. See air yeah i let say expeditionary. like no you have the right first testy Oh yeah.
00:37:24
Speaker
ah sealing ah According to Chad GPT, which I will note the other day told us two plus two is five. The answer is C air and land. I guess this the E is being pulled from the word C.
00:37:35
Speaker
All right. I don't know if that's accurate. Somebody fact check us and tell us if Chad GPT is lying to us if that is not in fact correct. For anyone listening, I am no longer active duty, so it's okay. You can be not proud of me. That's fine for not knowing that stuff. I'll give you a pass. I'll give you a pass. Your questions were way easier. I think i know you're think I'd do better on your law test.
00:37:57
Speaker
ah Yeah, you gave me some real softballs and I threw some crazy stuff at you. So thanks for being a good sport. That was fun. But I think if we've got our days correct, this episode will come out the day before Thanksgiving. So I wanted to talk to you a little bit about Thanksgiving. What are your plans for Thanksgiving this year? And what do you usually do for Thanksgiving?
Thanksgiving and Personal Experiences
00:38:17
Speaker
My Thanksgiving's are usually pretty low key, especially since no longer a whole family unit. So I tend to default to wherever Quentin, for Quentin doing whatever, I think he'll have the most fun for holidays. In many cases, I'm just me here in San Diego. So it's usually him with his mother's side of the family.
00:38:35
Speaker
But this year, he and I are going to Georgia to hang out with T.O. Steven. It's been a while since we've been to Georgia and we're due for a visit. We're going to have a good time. I don't i don't know if we're going to have a big smorgasbord of food. We're not sure we'll put something together. That sounds pretty fun. Yeah, hanging out with the the other boy or brother is always a good time.
00:38:56
Speaker
um Yeah, that sounds fun. For us, we are going to Baton Rouge, Louisiana, where my husband is from. Our Thanksgiving tradition is to spend it with them. And yeah, I will. So like one funny thing.
00:39:12
Speaker
is that we stopped eating meat like almost two years ago now, and that really threw them for a loop. They were not exactly used to that way of way of living or eating. Last year, we brought Brussels sprouts. like We made some Brussels sprouts, and that was our contribution to the family gathering because There weren't a lot of other vegetables floating around and there's just like a lot of things that would otherwise normally be vegetarian or they have like non vegetarian things thrown in there. Like there's marshmallows on the yams. Marshmallows are usually not vegetarian. There's like bacon and the green beans. Yeah, there's just like a lot of meat.
00:39:53
Speaker
products thrown into things that would otherwise be totally vegetarian. So that's been and an interesting ride, but we have like made it work and it's actually been kind of fun to like introduce them to some new things. I i think Brussels sprouts were new to some of them. And yeah, it's been an interesting journey to go down. We'll try this. Okay. I can't wait for this advice. When you go, people deep fry turkeys. Yes, they do.
00:40:23
Speaker
So in this case, I want you to take some tofurkey down there. Videotape your deep fry and some tofurkey. Okay. I can do that. We'll layer it on here. Yeah. I love tofu like crazy. I'm a tofu at addict. So I don't actually know what tofurkey is though. I assume you you're just like mold tofu into the shape of a turkey. It just looks like a turkey with like legs. to can I don't know. Yeah, I don't know either, but we eat tons of tofu. So maybe we'll make something with tofu this year.
00:40:52
Speaker
Well, I'm thankful for you joining me on some of these episodes. Yes. And I'm thankful for the listeners to keeping our motivation up to keep doing this. For sure. Yeah. Thank you guys for tuning in and the feedback. Everything's great. If anybody deep fries Tofurky, I would love to see that video.
00:41:10
Speaker
Same, for sure, same. In our next episode, we're discussing what life is like in retirement. So we're looking forward to that discussion and hope that you will come back and visit with us again. Thanks so much, everybody. We'll catch you next time.