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021 - Coaching Em Up w/ Tim Riley
157 Plays3 months ago
What does it take to rebuild yourself and emerge as one of the most innovative strength coaches?
Coach Tim Riley pulls back the curtain on elite athlete development and shares his remarkable journey of personal resilience. From innovative training methods that have helped shape NFL stars to his own battle with career-threatening knee injuries, Tim delivers a masterclass in both the physical and mental aspects of high performance.
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CaptainsAndCoaches #TimRiley #CoachEmUp #StrengthAndConditioning #AthleteDevelopment #SportPerformance #NFLTraining #StrengthCoach #SportScience #CoachDevelopment #LeadershipPrinciples #HighPerformance
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Transcript
Introduction & Tim Riley's Background
00:00:00
Speaker
like NFL guys, for example, the thing that has helped me with them has not been like trying to prove that I like know that I'm like a good coach or whatever or like anything like that. It has been my life experience and the things that I've walked through and emotional intelligence that has situated me to work well with that high performing population more than my training acumen. Yeah.
00:00:29
Speaker
Fortunately, I like to think I have both. And so I'm able to connect with people, most people pretty quickly on a personal level. It's pretty obvious if you've ever seen me coach a session of athletes that I care a lot. I just, when I'm there and I'm with them, it means a lot to me. Welcome to the Captains and Coaches Podcast, where we explore the art and science of leadership through the lens of athletics and beyond. I'm your host, Tex McQuilkin, and today we're joined by strength coach Tim Riley, who's training some of the top NFL athletes.
Tim's Personal Journey & Challenges
00:01:02
Speaker
He also co-hosts the Coach-Em-Up Podcast. We'll talk training methods, and you'll hear his incredible personal journey to become the leader he is today. We'll also explore a little knee health. Tim was getting his toes, wait, his knees in front of his toes way before it was cool.
00:01:17
Speaker
Tim will also share game-changing coaches, connections, and books that have helped shape his coaching philosophy and principles he abides by. Don't jump to conclusions about this episode. Tune in to reach new heights in your training and coaching career. Let's hand it off to Tim. Ready, ready, and break.
00:01:39
Speaker
into Dripping Springs. Thank you for having me out here, dude. You've got an awesome spot. What a cool pad to land, you know? You get to see the stars at night. It's a beautiful thing. Yeah, little do they know this is a giant ranch in the middle of nowhere, aliens. It's all out here.
00:01:53
Speaker
oh e Yeah, I got got an epic setup, man. So I want to start with your journey to Austin. It didn't start here. No. And thanks thanks to Zach Zillner for connecting us. Yes. And we we dropped a nugget that in our conversation training that even Zach didn't know. So some mixed martial arts in there, but I know he didn't even start there. Right. So like what led you to Austin to now have an awesome business set up working with some amazing people, professionals, coaches, everybody. Yeah, so um I'm from Nashville originally, born and raised and
00:02:31
Speaker
um You know, I started off, my my first sport was martial arts and then i I wanted to be Michael Jordan. So martial arts had to go. I am a former four time national champion in jiu-jitsu, just, you know, saying, uh, but you know, from, from the ages of, uh, five to nine, right? So it's like, it doesn't really count, you know, semantics, semantics. Also, I would like to reflect that in the nineties.
00:02:58
Speaker
Being a karate kid was not cool. No one thought that was cool. m MMA martial arts jiu-jitsu is cool now. It was not then. So I would bring my trophies to to school, um national championship trophies, and people would be like, that's lame.
00:03:16
Speaker
so Different experience. I know. Listen, it's just, it it is what it is. Times have changed. um This reminds me of a plot of sidekicks. I have not seen it. Oh, dude. It's Chuck Norris. You gotta to check it out. Sign me up. I'm in. Sign me up. Note. I actually, my favorite movie is growing up. Anything Bruce Lee. Yeah. Any, any Bruce Lee movie, sign me up. I was watching it. I wanted to be Bruce Lee, but then I found Michael Jordan. um And that was my, basketball became my new obsession and really basketball, football, mixed martial arts off and on.
00:03:47
Speaker
um All the way into high school and um you know growing up um my home life um Was not typical it was pretty chaotic um Lots of drugs and alcohol ah you know ah parents dating abusive partners just it was not ideal right um and I fell into ah I started drinking and using drugs early and 12 years old and started getting arrested sooner after that. And by my sophomore year, sports for me, and I was a good i was ah i was an above average athlete. I was never great, but I was i was always very good.
00:04:31
Speaker
And um I was supposed to start my freshman year. Varsity basketball wasn't able to because of an injury. Then my sophomore year, it was because of grades. That's where things really started to fall apart. um I got asked very kindly to never return to that high school at the end of that year. um They found out about my arrest record. And I then went to a school, a large public school,
00:04:56
Speaker
And i I ended up not graduating high school. i i really
Path to Success & Mentorship
00:05:00
Speaker
um that's The second sports I did for me... the drugs, the alcohol, the partying, that was, you know, yeah I was gonna be team captain in those activities. And, um but what I found is that when, and it's funny, dude, when I was playing sports actively, I loved the games. I didn't mind practice. I didn't care about training. I mean, I wanted a six pack because I wanted a girlfriend, but the training part, you know, like, and I didn't equate the training piece
00:05:36
Speaker
and its impact on my performance. It just, there were a lot of dots I wasn't connecting at that time in my life. I was pretty lost. And when i when sports were taken away from me, you know, and i and again, I didn't graduate high school.
00:05:51
Speaker
The only thing that closely reflected that was the gym. And that's where my love of training really took hold. And it was vanity at first. I just wanted to look good, you know what I mean? And like maybe dunk and pick up basketball at the YMCA. But I started to notice, and like, you know, bodybuilding dot.com, T Nation, you know, just all the um the throwbacks.
00:06:14
Speaker
and um And... And then I got back into MMA and I started fighting semi-professionally. My just training wasn't doing it for me. And again, I'm still not training really to enhance performance. you know It's just like this thing that I like doing. which You just don't know any better. You're working hard. Right. Lots of effort in a million directions. And it's just not connected yet. But also at that same time,
00:06:38
Speaker
I'm battling, what I didn't know then was full-blown drug and alcohol addiction. So I'm like bouncing in and out of the gym. I'm going on three-day benders. I'm trying to cut weight for this fight I got coming up. And actually, you know, unfortunately enough, ah my fights, I had a habit of coming in way underweight because, you know, I wasn't taking care of myself. No.
00:06:59
Speaker
um so So my fighting career in my early 20s lasted about two years. And I remember I lost my last fight. It was because I was out of shape. It wasn't a technical thing. It wasn't a skill thing. It became a skill thing after I got exhausted. But but i I ended up um hardly...
00:07:19
Speaker
um the the The entire third round, I couldn't breathe. You know, I'm smoking cigarettes. I'm drinking. I'm just a mess. So this is a long way. I'm going to tell you how I got to Austin. It becomes clear to me that I can't keep living the life I'm living and try to compete at a high level at anything. And you think that that might bring one to the decision to say, I'll put all this other stuff on the shelf.
00:07:40
Speaker
and keep fighting. That's not the decision I made. I said, screw the fighting thing. I'm just going to- Maintain the party. Yes, exactly. The party goes on. And fortunately for me, there were enough consequences in my life, losing girlfriend after girlfriend, job after job, making promise after promise that I couldn't keep. you know And I would tell you, id I would look people I loved in the eyes and say,
00:08:01
Speaker
Monday, I'm going to get it together. I'm going to clean it up. I'm going to get the job. I'm going to make things right with the girlfriend and that day would come and I just would not be able to do it. And maybe I'm able to do it for a couple of days, but not long enough yeah to have any change. 100% at 26.
00:08:19
Speaker
Um, I finally have that moment where if I don't get sober and change everything, nothing's going to change. And I got my first job. Uh, I go to treatment, get sober, move the South Florida to get out of Nashville. Cause I needed to i could get away from my environment for people. Yeah. hundred percent And, um,
00:08:38
Speaker
and that's where training, not just like working out to look good, but like training, actual training started to take a. a large um amount of space in my life and a large amount of interest, and it moved beyond just trying to you know do some bicep curls. Yeah, and look the part. Yeah, man, i I wanted to see what I was capable of, and it was all in the crucible of this time in my life where it For the first time, I believed that I could be something bigger than what I'd always been. And my first job in living in a halfway house, you know, don't I didn't have my car. I had no money. I i barely had a cell phone. um
00:09:22
Speaker
was a sales job at an LA Fitness in Delray Beach. I didn't even know it was a sales job, dude. I just needed a job, you know? So I started selling personal training, hated it. You know, it's just not. I could do it, but I was like, this is kind of brutal, right? And it became clear to me that training people was actually where I wanted to be. And, um you know,
00:09:44
Speaker
life showing up. I have to, I leave South Florida. I moved to Houston. I'm having a daughter. I have my daughter, me and my mom broke up. She got into the University of Texas for the neuroscience program. She said, Tim, I got in. Can we move
Coaching Philosophy & Athlete Needs
00:10:00
Speaker
to Texas so I can pursue this dream? I said, absolutely. Let's all go. And, you know, fast forward seven years later now. How old am I? I'm 34, eight years. Okay.
00:10:12
Speaker
Fast forward eight years. and um And I'm here now. And you know it all started with a personal training certification through National Personal Training Institute. um But that's not where it ended. Right.
00:10:27
Speaker
you know um i The populations I work with, most people, the path they have to take is they go to school for four years.
00:10:38
Speaker
they in turn, maybe they get their PhD, they work their way up the ranks and eventually they get to a place where they're working in the private sector and you know they're doing what I'm doing. And that wasn't my path. And I'm very grateful for that. However, it's funny, just life shows up. My plan was to do those things. I was actually enrolled in school and before she got into that neuroscience program, that was my plan. I was gonna go to school for four years and I was gonna,
00:11:08
Speaker
and she And I just, I remember, you know, I'm not and a religious person, but I consider myself spiritual. I remember praying about it. And just the feeling I got was like going to Austin, pursuing this is what's supposed to happen. yeah And had I gone on that journey,
00:11:28
Speaker
Tex, who knows, I might not even be working with high level low level athletes, at least not with my name on the brand, you know? Would have taken 12 more years. Yes. But because that happened, instead of going the scholastic route, I went the mentorship route. Oh, yeah. And I went heavy. And so lots of certifications, lots of reaching out to coaches, lots of buying their programs and doing them.
00:11:53
Speaker
um and constantly putting myself in positions to learn from people that I thought were smarter than me, where I wanted to be, um who had a skill set that I knew I didn't have.
00:12:06
Speaker
So then talk to us about that thought process, the skill set you didn't have. Because within coaching, there's specificities. There's exactly, hey, you're a specialist in this. That could be sport. It could be body part. It could be movement. Totally. Yeah, skill. So all different things. So then how'd you go about, okay, was it a broad brush? I need to start here and then, oh, this interest from this person, I'm gonna go down that rabbit hole. You kind of nailed it. In the beginning,
00:12:37
Speaker
I felt like and maybe rightfully so that if I didn't consume as much information in every direction as possible, that I was so behind the curve that I would never get to where I wanted to go.
00:12:54
Speaker
So um you know I have, for better or for worse, um an obsessive ah trait where if I'm invested something and I'm you know really leaning into something,
00:13:11
Speaker
It's my life, and training was my life. Consuming training content, certifications, learning as much as I possibly could. with Within that, what was your preferred learning style? Because now we got, it used to be magazines. Yes. Those are out. Yeah, podcasts. So what was your preferred learning style? yeah You said downloading the programs, running the programs yourself. Yes.
00:13:34
Speaker
So ah very much so, ah there's several prongs to this. So one, podcasts, by the way, Power Athlete was a big ah played a big role in my development. um So let's just say po podcasts, social media, YouTube, those all fall into like one prong. So that's like the free stuff that's available to you. And I think because it's free,
00:14:02
Speaker
And because there is and there's even more now today, there is a lot of good information. The problem is, is that there's so much. It's hard to sift through what's actually useful and practical and what isn't. yeah And I think that's a part of every trainer and coach's journey, frankly.
00:14:21
Speaker
Cause like I mentioned the T nation and the bodybuilding dot.coms and like there was some value in that, particularly at the time. But as we look back on those things, we can probably say with some of objectivity that like a lot of that stuff, it's like you can kind of roll your eyes at now.
00:14:34
Speaker
Well, yeah, Kui Bono. Right. Who benefits the supplement line that they're selling. Right, exactly. so but But that's part of the journey. There's just as much value in learning what is useful as learning what isn't. Right?
00:14:52
Speaker
um And unfortunately, there's no shortcut to most of that, right? Like, that's those are things that only experience in countless hours up late at night, watching some black hole YouTube video that you're under can provide for you. So there's there's free content, just fly sports performance podcast. I mean, I remember listening to like the third episode ever, you know, and I think Joel, shout out Joel.
00:15:17
Speaker
ah He's on like episode 450 or something just unbelievable, right? um And so podcasts like that, free content following people on Instagram. um And so that's one bucket. And then the next is like things that I paid for, certifications, continuing education. The ebb and flow of that for me was like,
00:15:41
Speaker
Honestly, it kind of ran concurrent to a lot of the information I was ingesting from the free side, because like the more I sifted through on that, the more I found coaches whose message was really clear, who had a strong grasp on the things that did and didn't work for them. And a lot of the things that influence them from a theoretical or like model perspective, I found myself going, huh, let me go find out who this Bill Hartman guy is. You know what I mean? yeah um And boy, the PRI rabbit hole, what a rabbit hole. But like, it goes deep. um But I pursued those rabbit holes. And again, like,
00:16:23
Speaker
Tying back into what I said about you know consuming that free content, that's ah which isn't free because your time you know is an investment in that. But um learning from all those different paid certifications and seminars, so many seminars. Yeah, so many. so I mean, I remember, God, I'm going to forget his name now.
00:16:47
Speaker
um He was at power athlete with you ah John John. I remember watching him at the Texas performance conference Yeah, dude, I was there. day I was there baby in there somewhere. Yes. Yes. Uh-huh. Absolutely um So any opportunity I had if I had the money it's funny because like I wouldn't And I still don't do this. Like, I wear the same three pieces of clothing all the time. Like, my girlfriend's the only reason I even own two pairs of like, nice jeans. I'm serious. But like, my money goes to those things that interest me. And I found that... you know, spending money on seminars and certifications, like those things, not only like were they worthwhile in the sense that I was get I felt like I was putting myself in a position to be a more useful, more effective coach and trainer. um But I got opportunities to meet so many people that I otherwise wouldn't. And there is so much value in that, just like, I mean, the fact you and I are sitting here together
00:17:50
Speaker
We met because I was willing to go put myself in a position to go on a training session with Zach. And then one thing leads together and we're sitting here. The same thing happens at those seminars, man. yeah You cannot underestimate seminar certifications, free content. And then this one um is my preferred method.
00:18:09
Speaker
Most coaches, if you reach out to them, will be willing to program for you. ah You know, you can pay for a consultation call.
00:18:20
Speaker
um And my I'm a learn-by-doing guy.
00:18:28
Speaker
I can take things on the whiteboard and what you wrote down and I can digest it and chew on it. But usually like when I go to seminars or certifications like that, it actually takes me a couple months to really start to
Training NFL Athletes & Building Trust
00:18:40
Speaker
assimilate that stuff. And because it takes me a while of of gnawing on it. and and but But the minute that I get to actually do the thing or experience it firsthand, and it's just more fun for me. yeah um Man, that that accelerates the learning curve.
00:18:57
Speaker
buying other coaches programs and not just like looking at them and saying, oh, he prioritizes this. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm doing it. I want to do it. And um it's a double edged sword on one end. It's invaluable in the sense that like understanding what the demands are of programming from different people and why they prioritize it and not just doing it, but like actually trying to grasp why they're doing it and experiencing it yourself firsthand. To me, invaluable, particularly when it comes to try and relate that stuff to future clients or athletes.
00:19:40
Speaker
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00:19:56
Speaker
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00:20:10
Speaker
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00:20:40
Speaker
and get started today. And now back to the show. Ready, ready, and ready. And this has been a different learned skill. So it's like, OK, this is how I adapt. Now I can take that stuff and I can start to kind of lace principles, concepts, you know, um ah different ah training schemes or philosophies into my own training. And then I can make my own decisions based on what I feel like works and what doesn't. Yeah.
00:21:05
Speaker
and It takes all of that free content, all of those training certifications and all that stuff, in my opinion, pales in comparison to just getting out there, doing it yourself and implementing it with clients and athletes. Yeah. And I think so much about what happens where these other resources kind of like.
00:21:25
Speaker
get rendered ineffective is people are checking the box. They go to the seminar. They shake some hands. They say, wow, Matt Watson, all that your principles surrounding plyometrics and how you program them from a week to week basis and how you prioritize intensive to extensive. All that's fantastic. I'm going to go back to doing box jumps.
00:21:47
Speaker
not change You've done nothing. You've done nothing. So that there there there is this piece, like an underlying principle of being willing to have an honest appraisal around what you're doing and being willing to take the risk and just say like, okay, like I want to introduce this new thing and be kind of scientific about that process. Yeah.
00:22:08
Speaker
um and The buying people's training programs, having them program for me, um has it started off with just wanting to get stronger. And then I was on this jumping journey where I just wanted to jump as high as possible and you know dunk basketballs. and um And that was a big journey for me personally. And then now lately it's been speed and sprinting. I just ran a 60 meter today. Sweet. You're playing baseball? No, no, no, no, no. no i mean i I think I'm going to sign up for an indoor track meet.
00:22:39
Speaker
Dude. All right. Yeah. So ah I'm not going to mention the coach's name because I haven't reached out to him yet. I'm going to be DMing him the second we get done here. We've kind of developed ah an Instagram relationship friendship and he's a master's competitor.
00:22:54
Speaker
and track former decathlete, I'm going to ask him to program for me. So, you know, it's I get on these kicks and but they're not like, you know, oh, I tried to get faster for three months. Like, no, dude, it's been and it's been a year and a half. You aim to understand. Yes, I need to. I want to, you know, within the context of what I'm capable of, find out what the limit is. How far can I take it before i I'm just not because, again, I mentioned I'm an above athlete, above average athlete.
00:23:21
Speaker
I was never elite. I was not going to be a starting D1 anything, right? um But um I've got enough in the tank to push myself to the place of what I'm capable of and the journey, the process of doing that. And, you know, I think we talked about this off camera, but like being able to, there's something so special about pursuing something relentlessly, no matter what that thing is, the attempt of mastering any one thing in life.
00:23:50
Speaker
really set you up to be able to have conversations effectively with other people who are trying to master something else. Yeah. um And aim to find those connections. Yes. Which which often, more often than not, the the stories are parallel. Yes. Ships passing in the night. And if only they had each other earlier, then it made a little bit farther. ahha And I'll say all that to say that the training piece but has parlayed itself and rolled into mentorship for me too. You know, people who are now just friends to me, Corey Bidlow, Daniel Bach, David Gray,
00:24:28
Speaker
um God, Matt Watson, um Jake Tura, ah people who's programming and outlooks and understand by and Dr. Pat Davidson, so many people who or I've done their mentorships, Pat Davidson being one, people who and I haven't just had a conversation with.
00:24:51
Speaker
I've spent months yeah and and with some of those names that I've named years learning from and digesting their information, it's turned into now like these really fruitful, wonderful friendships. um But yeah, mentorship is the final boss of all of that stuff I talked about when it comes to learning is,
00:25:10
Speaker
um and that's why you know I'm a, there's nothing special about me. you know ah And i'm I'm not saying that to downplay anything I've accomplished or done. And there may be people listening to this who say like they want to be where I am in terms of like training pro athletes or whatever. But like I mean this in the most ah humblest sense. Without those people,
00:25:40
Speaker
And without them being willing to answer that DM program for me, have those conversations and us you know eventually develop yeah meaningful relationships where they're willing to help me, people I can pick up and say like, hey, I've got this track athlete and I've ever i've never actually programmed for someone who's gonna be running a 200, can you help me out? You know? Yeah. Invaluable. So i i'm I'm, you know, as as a high school dropout,
00:26:07
Speaker
The mentorship thing to me, I'm so indebted to these people in such an immense way. you know the The craftsmen, the world used to to run. yeah um The blacksmith, you went through apprenticeships, yeah mentorships that then led to the opportunity to run your own shop, yeah which is where we are now.
00:26:28
Speaker
I feel the seminars, I've been fortunate to lead 100 seminars all over the world, but then anywhere from three people show up to that, all the way up to 60. But you had a certain range of people that show up, people that are there for the piece of paper, yep or people are there there that skeptics, a and they they want to understand, they want to push back because they're they're confident in what they know, so now they're looking to understand and almost wrestle with the information.
00:26:58
Speaker
and see how they can apply it with their people because they're all about their people to get them better. And then you have the people looking for affirmation. Hey, yeah that the two day was great, but will you look at my program and sign off? Yeah, yeah. I don't know where those people are. because the The people that were wrestling with ideas and still connected with and have great relationships. And then we have great conversations still to this day. Then it could be about the information they learned or, hey, have you looked into this XYZ? And now we open up a whole can of worms.
00:27:29
Speaker
a I like to seek out the author, read the book, and then find them and try to have a podcast or conversation with them. Sure. Or if it's a strength coach, that's much easier at a conference or a DM away. Yep. The beauty of this industry, doors are always open. Yes. If you're a nice guy, I'm not trying to take them down. I'm just want to understand. 100%.
00:27:51
Speaker
I'll tell you one fascinating thing that i I just can never wrap my head around. Going to conferences, there's guys that sit in the back and just wait for Q and&A time. It's like they don't even listen to the and presentation. Okay. Pick me, pick me. And then, yeah, in your book, page 47, paragraph four, you said this. You know, book you wrote 10 years ago. Right. ah what I don't know what those... Coaches are trying to. Yeah, there's a lot of ego
Challenges with High-Profile Athletes
00:28:20
Speaker
at those events. You know, that there's a lot of there. I'll just I was going to use a different term, but there's a lot of there's a lot of ego and not always, you know, some of the best people I've ever met have been at at seminars, but particularly in the stress conditioning world. And I should preface this by saying the general vibe ah over the past several years in SNC has lightened.
00:28:44
Speaker
It's loosened up a bit. But when I first got interested and my my attention turned from just training in general to like, i I want to understand performance and I want to know what what does it even mean to be an athlete? how do i how do what How can I be useful and effective? When I started showing up to those conferences um that normally only S and&C guys were at, guys and gals,
00:29:08
Speaker
yeah the It could feel pretty stuffy in that room, man. I mean, you know, you had some people that there's always been awesome, great people, um but it could feel a little, little clicky, a little tight. And, you know, I'd say, oh, I'm i'm a trainer and I'd get the.
00:29:23
Speaker
the hell is this guy doing here, you know? I've noticed over time, and i'm I think social media plays a part in this, where, you know, it used to be kind of glorified, the social, the the strength coach path, where you fucking suffer. Suffer, dude, you're gonna suffer like I suffered and yeah and this is what we do and this is how it is and there's a certain attitude and then there's ah there's this there's this mindset and all of these like character qualities and even almost like physical appearances of like what it means to be a strength coach. You're not allowed to have hair. Right, yeah, shave it, shave it off. um And so, um but ah I think in general, like, and again, I think social media has been, this is one of the many blessings of social media.
00:30:09
Speaker
that um coaches are so much more willing to share information, to connect, right? And it used to be like, you know, you go into your internship and then you, you know, you're at App State and i I'm just using App State. This is no shade at App State. Blue Mountain State. right right Blue Mountain State. And and you're you're working under said strength coach and you're there for two years and then you get an assistant role and then, you you know what I mean? And so,
00:30:34
Speaker
but But the world was this big, you know, and the only opportunity you got were these other seminars and conferences really to connect and learn, gather information. And even then it was like it was like protective almost. It's like we don't want people to know what we're doing. And now so so much so.
00:30:53
Speaker
Coaches, it just feels like they're an open book and the coaching community in general feels like it's in such a and ah ah more healthy place than it's ever been. yeah In terms of a willingness to share information and this shared desire to just be the best you can be. And I think i think social media has done that a lot where um it's kind of broken down some of those barriers that were very real. When I was trying to to go that path, there's plenty of ceilings that were put on you just because. Yeah.
00:31:23
Speaker
No other reason then. than that, or if you said one wrong thing in a conversation at a conference or a phone call in an interview, then that's gonna stick with you forever. yep ah Yeah, it's it's madness, and I'm, I mean, fortunate to just find my own way through it all, yes but then, yeah, just being open and reaching out to mentors and valuing understanding over the, I mean, the fear of maintaining this position, this logo, this ah team on my chest. hundred percent
00:31:55
Speaker
but Okay, I'll understand and then I can apply it to to anything. So you said an interesting thing I want to try to speak through. You said training versus performance. Yeah. That sounded like a big light bulb moment for you. Yeah. So is there a moment or ah a coach or somebody that said something where it switched from training working out to now, ah we're preparing them for performing in their their goal, their their sport. When I first started training, let me back up.
00:32:24
Speaker
I'd only worked out most of my life. Now my effort was high and my consistency was fantastic. So I got good good results. um But it wasn't until I became a trainer and I started to start getting more, shout out Chad Wesley Smith, he wrote a conjugate ah for free, by the way. Chad Wesley Smith wrote a program and it was his take on conjugate. It's how he would program conjugate. And it was free. he just It was a free 12-week program. And that um that program and Triphasic were the first two training, actual training programs that I did. So I really came out swinging. Oh yeah. you know um And at the time, particularly Triphasic, no one knew what Triphasic was. You were had to be a real S and&C kind of like elitist to like really know what Triphasic was, right? Those are the guys that put their hand up and challenge Deets. That's yeah exactly who I was doing. 100%. And I went to all, I didt dietz's rprs i did I did the whole deal.
00:33:39
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. No, I love Dietz. I just don't know why those guys felt the need to... I know. ...to attack him. Yeah. It's like... Because he had a book, I guess. Yeah. That's right. Yeah. Because he took the time to write the book. No one else did. Yeah. Him and Mike T. Nelson. So, like, Dr. Mike's a great guy. Yeah. Those experiences...
00:33:57
Speaker
Uh, cause like I, I programmed, uh, kinda, but things were kind of loose. That was my first introduction to like, no, everything can be accounted for. There should be underlying themes and reasons why you're doing thing that look into a much larger picture. You know, I know. Um, but it, you know, it's one, thing but, but here's the thing I was up against.
00:34:20
Speaker
is so early in my career, and I was, I was in the infancy of my career, was I had personally, and this is this is the double-edged sword of learning on your own, is assuming that because you had an outcome that that applies to everyone else.
00:34:37
Speaker
And that can be a big mistake. um So because I had a lot of effort and because I had a lot of consistency, I was able to get to a certain place. I stalled out. I started doing programs like those. And this plateau that I was at, I was able to totally blast through them multiple times. That's when the light bulb went off for me at the individual level.
00:34:57
Speaker
Um, and then taking some of those principles, concepts and ideas and applying that with my gen pop, who I was training mostly at the time and any high school or college athlete that could get my hands on, you know, I mean, I'm telling you that I think there was a point in time I was doing variations, my take on triphasic with gen pop. You know what I'm saying? That's okay. it is It's fine. Listen, up they're better for it. Um, yes, uh, Sandy, you are going to hold an eight second isometric at the sticking point of this squat. It's gonna be great. Of this active foot split squat. Exactly. Let's go. Exactly. That's just how I learned. And so, yeah, that was the shift. And then, you know, and even more so transitioning from training to performance to... If I could oversimplify it and distill down my experience with the transition from working out to actual training and then what that process has looked like,
00:35:55
Speaker
it has become a lot less about being right and a lot more around trying to get it right when it comes to training athletes. So I have my biases, I have things I like, I have methods I prefer, I have qualities that I think generally speaking are probably a priority for most athletes, blah, blah, blah. Those things, systems run in the back of my head. I'm a human being, that's part of the deal. Something that I try to override that with that I've found to be as a principal, um immensely useful and practical is when I'm making programming decisions, when I'm assessing an athlete, when I'm listening to the things they're saying surrounding like where they feel like they're missing or what they have and don't have in terms of their own athletic makeup. The question that I try and ask myself is, okay,
00:36:50
Speaker
How do I dismiss trying to be right in the situation and how do I take all this information and give it it give them what it is? Precisely, they need to actually get better. And like me six years ago, I would have just said ah where you we probably just need to get stronger. And that was probably like the plug and play thing for everybody now now and great and again, you know, like.
00:37:16
Speaker
chasing that route and like seeing like, oh, like that doesn't work for everybody. I had to learn that lesson. So leading to that lesson, was there somebody you injured? Did you get injured yourself? No, I mean, well, listen, I've injured myself countless times. um And it's funny because a lot of the things that I would not allow one of my athletes to do um I do, you know what I mean? Like, it's like my hamstrings are still a little sore, but I am supposed to hit this max velocity day. If I was training an athlete, I'd say, we're going to wait till tomorrow, rest up, we could do some active recovery stuff, maybe some the stick mobility drills, you know what I mean? And then we'll perform really well tomorrow as opposed to pushing it today. Me?
00:37:59
Speaker
Listen, I got my daughter tomorrow, and today is my only day, so I'm hitting the track. And wouldn you wouldn't you imagine? I pulled my hamstring. You know what I mean? Yeah. um So, so, yeah, like, I think Cal Deets, since he's on the mind, I've heard him use the phrase, I had to crack a couple of eggs to make the omelet. And I remember the first time he said that, actually, I was like,
00:38:23
Speaker
How fucking irresponsible. Like I had a had a reaction to that. Now I have a different interpretation of what he said when I first heard him say that eight years ago.
00:38:35
Speaker
was that in an effort to be the best coach possible, sometimes you make dumb decisions. You just, you make bad decisions or you make the best decision you could at the time with the information and skills that you had, but it was still dumb relative to where you are now. And he now he knows it's dumb. Yes. So pushing the performance limits,
00:38:55
Speaker
not only of his ah knowledge, skill as a coach, but also the particular athletes he's working with. And then tragedy happens, injury occurs. Okay, let me go back.
00:39:07
Speaker
so he potentially did the, we did the right thing where he injured guys is, okay, let me reflect, let me see why I have to understand and then work around this yeah mistake for future athletes. So it doesn't happen. Or you can blame the athlete. Well, that egg wasn't strong enough. That's right. Yeah, that's right. Yeah. There's plenty of coaches that do that. Yeah, which is kind of, it's wild to me. um I'm a, i I think one of my biggest assets as a person that has helped me become a better coach is I have ah i have a persistent curiosity and a genuine desire to wanna figure it out, you know? um I like the challenge of trying to problem solve um what's going on. um And yeah, like, you know, to bring back the Khaledits thing, like some of my failures are,
00:40:05
Speaker
And I take this from my personal life too, where which really, frankly, lessons I've learned in my personal life have preceded my ability to um start to ah bring some of those into my coaching ability and like and coaching life. But, you know, um I'm going one direction.
00:40:26
Speaker
I think I've got it all figured out. Life shows up, kicks me in the face. I have to have an honest conversation with myself around how I arrived here and what I need to change in order to prevent this from happening again. And then here's the kicker. You actually have to take steps and actions in the opposite of direction or at least a different direction from what got you in that place in the first place.
00:40:51
Speaker
Yeah, that's been a reoccurring theme in my life. I'm sure most people listening to this can relate. um But coaching is the same. Coaching is the same, at least for me, is I've had real what I feel like firm graphs on philosophies, principles, um ways that I like to impact an athlete, you know, for all the way from just, you know,
00:41:20
Speaker
and an entire year of athletic development down to session to session, the things that I think matter most. And, you know, it's been proving to me time again that any time I claim to any one particular philosophy, thought, exercise, prescription methodology over trying to figure out precisely what the athlete needs, I ended up putting my hand on that stove. Less than I learned a long time ago, philosophies can change. Yeah, man. If we're working on athletics and and team environments, philosophies change every single season. Mm-hmm. Because we got a different group of athletes. In the respect to training, principles. Yeah. Principles never change. Mm-hmm. So there's biological laws that are principles within strength and conditioning. We can't out-program biology. Yeah.
00:42:10
Speaker
Yeah, so that's our opportunity to understand biology to now guide our program or set up in our execution. ah So I agree with you there and leaning into principles that have been around in this still young profession of 60 years. Yeah, it's crazy, right? We can still learn from. Yeah.
00:42:27
Speaker
and know that there's more to learn. There's a lot more to learn. And and you know to that point, this just came to my mind. This is a profession where it wasn't that long ago. A lot of coaches didn't sprint their athletes, particularly field sports. Or themselves. I think they still did.
00:42:44
Speaker
That's still they didn't in the logic was because we don't want them to pull hamstrings and that you know what I mean? So that was not that long ago, man. Like I remember when I first started coming up in the performance space where that that idea was still pretty entrenched and some more traditional Circles well, I'd say that's scarcity mindset. Yeah, they don't want to pull their hamstring They don't want to get hurt and now when they step into their arena Yeah, and they pull their hamstring they get hurt. Oh, it was the yep the sport that did try not me. yeahp Yeah. Yeah. Yeah
00:43:17
Speaker
Wasn't me. Yeah, exactly. I'm good. Yeah. Yeah. So we've, we've, you know, when you, when you say it like that, the fact this field as a whole has been around for 60 years, that's, it's not a long time. It's a blink of an eye. Um, and so, and that's another thing too. And you alluded to that how philosophies change principles, you know, stay the same, or at least, uh, they're much less likely to change as quickly. a lot about, again, and this is just a parallel for my personal life, being willing to admit that you're wrong.
00:43:54
Speaker
be honest about why it happened, and then based on this new information, make a different decision. That, I mean, really, that's that it's kind of like it's but it's essentially the scientific method. Really, when you get down to brass tacks, it's like, okay, like I was trying this thing, here's the result I got. It didn't go the way I wanted it to go. Maybe I gathered some new, useful information. Let me try that again. And yeah and another thing, just as a one, this is all percolating.
00:44:25
Speaker
all of that, all of those conferences, certifications, mentorships, training, doing other people's programs, all of that running parallel to me taking those things and applying them practically in my training sessions day after day, year after year, countless reps with high school middle school, high school, collegiate pro, and gen-pop athletes.
00:44:50
Speaker
Like the thing that sort of transcends all of that or has transcended all of that for me has definitely been that process. And I went to a lot of those, that scientific method, like I went to a lot of those seminars and certifications looking for an answer. I wanted someone to tell me the best way to do things. That's what I really wanted. I wanted to find like the answer.
00:45:18
Speaker
And as time has gone on, and I'm grateful that I've just leaned into this as being the truth is like, there is no the answer. There's just not. Alan Iverson, there's... Yeah, there is one. That's right. god That was incredible. Oh my God. Highlight of the show. That was a huge Alan Iverson fan after Michael Jordan. um Yeah, there is there is no one answer. And that's where principles come into play as being like guiding forces.
00:45:46
Speaker
um and the open mindedness to just take this person, this group of athletes that are in front of you and say, okay, how do I, ah based on the information I've got, what are going to be the priorities here? And then let that, those, that's like the father principle as opposed to like,
00:46:06
Speaker
Well, uh, okay. We're going to train four days a week and it's two days a week. You're going to look like this and then the last two days are going to look like that. youary Yeah. Yeah. So in line with that mindset, the thinking, the approach, I feel that represents what you do so well with professional athletes. So a lot of people want that responsibility as a coach.
00:46:25
Speaker
However, just I'm getting goosebumps thinking about the weight and the stress that I have yeah when working with an individual yeah that matters. yeah man So help us understand the perspective where you are training people yeah that are more athletically gifted yeah than you will ever be. yep Because a lot of the the standard approach for coaches is, hey, I'm going to try this program and then give it to my athletes. yeah Well, they're a different they're a freaking, they're from a different planet. Yeah, it's different.
00:46:54
Speaker
So walk us through that mindset, the information available, preparing them for their demands when you're working with them. So it's it's interesting because I've said this often, if you can teach an 80-year-old ah GenPop client who's never worked out in their life how to hinge, you can do anything.
00:47:16
Speaker
You can do anything on planet Earth. I say that because things that I've identified that I think have probably been largely echoed about elite athletes is like you assume that they know that they train with good technique or or what is traditionally deemed as good technique. No, I can't tell you how many programs I get. They I'm like, I'm like, hey, let's do some more deals and do some more. I was like, what is that?
00:47:39
Speaker
Like, I don't say that. and like But they are like, oh, they've never done a ah proper RDL in their life. That's wrong. That is more of a low back exercise than doing. But that's illuminating. That speaks volumes. Because I think as performance coaches, strength coaches, of course you want to believe that your role plays a very big part in your athlete client's success. But when it comes to the pro guys,
00:48:07
Speaker
um it It goes both ways, right? Like i I end up with guys who clearly have gotten to where they're at in spite of every coach they've ever had. I also get guys who credit where they're at because of the coaches that they've had. um So it's a mixed bag in that regard. The thing that I think um more than like
00:48:37
Speaker
Like, particularly with the with the like NFL guys, for example, guys who are who were their the best high school player you've ever seen in your life at their high school period. you know Then they went on and they were studs in college and now they're young and millionaires balling out playing on Sundays.
00:48:56
Speaker
The thing that has helped me with them has not been like trying to prove that I like know that I'm like a good coach or whatever or like anything like that. It has been my life experience and the things that I've walked through and emotional intelligence that has situated me to work well with that high performing population more than my training acumen. Yeah.
00:49:24
Speaker
Fortunately, I like to think I have both. But and so I'm able to connect with people, most people pretty quickly on a personal level. And um it's pretty obvious if you've ever seen me coach a session of athletes that I and care a lot. I just.
00:49:43
Speaker
when I'm there and I'm with them, it means a lot to me. yeah And I think people can pick up on that. And then from there, the sessions, for the most part, don't look particularly like an NFL off season. Like, you know, with some of these guys, I might have them five to six weeks. So how much are we really cheap, right? But you want to put them in positions to get the most they can out of training based off the things they tell you they need. I need to work on getting faster, but that's the priority.
00:50:10
Speaker
We're going to be hitting the track, you know, we'll fill in all the other gaps that you need based off what I see. But if that's what you're telling me you need, then that's where we're going to be, you know what I mean? yeah And I think that the the the being able to connect piece, actually it being probably pretty transmissible, like you can't transmit what you don't got.
00:50:29
Speaker
And I love to train. right And so when you see me in there working with athletes, people are like, this guy fucking loves what he does, you know? It's infectious, I hope. It's a different energy than sports practice, yep which is their job. yeah So now we get an opportunity to help us. I mean, let loose. Text, not every everyone not every one of those guys, people think it's like, oh, they must love training. No. A lot of those guys, they don't want to be there. about like it's but it's Sometimes it's about like,
00:51:00
Speaker
They're with you and they're training that group because the vibes like the vibes at this place are high You know what I mean? Like, you know when me you Zach and Chad we all worked up together the vibes that day They were immaculate. Yeah, we were ripping Creed. We were singing You know, yeah, yeah i set ah like what like the environment we created was a lot of fun and And just underneath that, like we were working, right? We were getting real work done. Like not every, not every quote unquote high profile guy trained, like the training is the priority necessarily, you know? At that moment in time. And you've got to keep it real with yourself as a coach that that's what it is. You know what I mean? I think some coaches that rubs them
Team Dynamics & Injury Prevention
00:51:40
Speaker
the wrong way because, well, if it doesn't mean that much to them, but it means everything to me, you see what I mean?
00:51:47
Speaker
That's the wrong mindset. That's the wrong mindset, man. It's like you have to shift away from, I don't want to be right, I want to get it right. So if training isn't the most important thing to this guy, but he does need to train and he does need to get good training.
00:52:01
Speaker
what can I do to suit myself to be of maximum service to him, to meet him where he's at, so that he can enjoy his time here, but also get everything he needs. You know what I mean? Yeah. He and she. Yeah. it So speak to us, almost two different assessments. This is an easy question. First time you ever working with them. Yeah. And then they're maybe their second off season with you. Yeah. Like the first conversations on both end of that. What is that like? Well, yo know the first conversations are always like, what's up, man? you know like what but How's it going? Nice to meet you. I'm Tim. Yada, yada, yada. And like I think connecting with people, making an honest. And it's tough, because here's the other thing. When you're dealing with the pro guys, yeah I've had interns that are like, oh my god, that's Jamar Chase. you know It's like, dude, you you can't there can be zero amounts of that.
00:52:55
Speaker
and Um, again, like I've said this so many times, so forgive me, but because of my life experience, like I've been in situations where like, you know, I've been around some famous people. I've been around some people with some money. I've been around situations and places and people and things that a lot of people would look at and say, I wish I had that life. But in living it and rubbing elbows with that, it's actually not.
00:53:20
Speaker
It just, it's just, it's just life. You know what I mean? It looks different. And I think because of those life experiences I have, I've had, I never felt like anyone was larger larger than life. um And I can pretty much connect with,
00:53:38
Speaker
um I make an attempt to connect with people no matter what their position or or perceived status is, you know what I mean? um and And again, it when it goes when I talk about like the genuine training thing, like genuinely being excited about training and wanting to get the most out of people and being excited about that,
00:53:57
Speaker
Like when you show people, you know, and it's it's corny, but like people don't care until they know you care. It's like, well, yeah, that's true. But like, isn't that just like part of like what it is, what it means to connect as a person, just showing that you're kind of interested in like what they got going on. So the buy-in piece and those first conversations and that first off season, and honestly, like, you know, I'm one of the boys. so and about Like I'm just I'm just one of the dudes, you know, you got ups. Yeah, you got speed. You got strength. Thank you, Tex. I appreciate. I see. I'm going to I am the calf machine. I had to take a couple of plates off. ah That helps, too you know, and to that point, but creating buy in like.
00:54:39
Speaker
I like to talk some shit. I like to, you know what I mean? I'm like, I can i can remind a guy about that pass he dropped because I was probably watching, that you know what I mean? But and but it's in it's fun and I'll jump in and do a session with the guys, you know? and um Coaches can't or won't do that often. Well, they're nervous to show face. Right. And I'm not afraid to, like, you know, run around and drop a ball in front of it. Like, I'm not I have no delusions around my athletic ability. But when I when I go in there and I train hard
00:55:14
Speaker
and I talk shit and I'm gonna say, don't let me beat you on this rep, bro. It bri creates a different level of like, now I'm your coach, I'm pushing you, but also like, you know what I mean? You can beat them. Yes, yeah, well. That's the story. The drill would have to be something skewed in my direction for sure, but. That's the art of coaching. Yes. um But yeah, like i i I'm grateful that I've been able to do that and that that to me also is one of the best parts about coaching those pro guys is like being able to train alongside with and talk shit and kind of roll my sleeves up there and be in the trenches with them. And again, like that's a part of just building the relationship and just, you know, I just i i want to i want to get better and I want to have a good time doing it. yeah I think most people can relate to that.
00:56:00
Speaker
So then what's that energy like on that first seeing them again on that second off season? Immaculate. I mean, yeah, it's huge, dude, because like, especially when a guy goes away and ah because it happens both ways. so I had I had a guy, ah chief defensive end, trained with me. he yeah He was suspended the first few games, trained with me the entire time through suspension, went back, had the season of his career towards ACL and AFC Championship Game Machine. Right. Yeah. Heartbreaking.
00:56:30
Speaker
heartbreaking. breaking um And fortunately, his rehab's gone great. He's back on the field and he's going to be fine, right? You're going to have experiences like that or it's like, and you know, it's one thing, dude, when you don't know these, you don't know that the person on the TV. But when you know how much work went into it and how much they cared and how much time, money, effort, and then to have an injury like that happen at the precipice of potentially getting the biggest, right, right before the Super Bowl contract. You know, um it changes everything. It makes it, it may it almost makes the training feel small.
00:57:13
Speaker
You know? um But in the same breath, it makes it matter that much more. because It's like, you know, you hopefully you're contributing and in a in a manner to this person's life that's incredibly impactful. And then you have guys like, you know, I'm getting, I hate to be a name dropper, but it just makes the story easier, okay? But ah getting Bijon ready, training him in college, doing his combine prep alongside Mo Wells and Jordan Bush, shout out Mo Wells and Jordan Bush ah and Trey Hardy.
00:57:43
Speaker
Um, watching him get drafted and being there standing front row as he gets, and then watching him being able to do what he's doing on Sundays. Holy shit, Tex. Yeah. And couldn't happen to a better human being. He's such a good person that it's actually annoying. Like, I want to just cuss, dude. Just say a bad, you know what I mean? Do something. He's just a good, he just, he just is who he is. And another amazing quality of him is he's... I'm unapologetically authentic all the time. Anyway, um but yeah, like seeing the progress year to year, being able to contribute, and then like knowing that like guys are excited to come back. And bring fresh blood. Hell yeah. They tell their buddies, they're like, hey, man, we've got a dope thing. like and like Because it because i make that I make guys race.
00:58:28
Speaker
You know, yeah I've got the timing gates out. Like I try to make everything as competitive as possible. One other reason you do have to be, that's a population where you don't have to worry about them being competitive. You have to worry about someone saying, no, if that I can power clean 335 when you just saw their last rep and they don't need to try, you don't need to try, you know. that's it But also yeah part of developing that relationship is maybe being able to like, no, you're done, you know.
00:58:54
Speaker
and even being willing to take the push, like not F that, I'm gonna do it. It's like, no, you're not, you're done. save it Save it for next week, you know, whatever. But anyway, yeah. Yeah, that's that's awesome. I just imagine that second second session, them coming back with a new athlete. Yeah. And then it just makes that relationship with a new athlete that much easier. It's awesome.
00:59:15
Speaker
yeah And then now we just get this force multiplier and and build a a unique culture within your training environment. I see that energy and the i and I love it. Thank you. um ah I do want to shout out Kyle Hartzell, so University of Texas lacrosse coach. So I just saw him this past weekend. His team hosted a tournament for their their major fundraiser. ye ah My high school attended.
00:59:38
Speaker
Hell yeah. So yeah, I told him I was interviewing you and he gave you the opportunity. He did. To take on UT Lacks. Yeah, man. Team training. Yeah. So now we've established a small group with professional athletes. Totally. But now we are, we're in back in the college phase. Yeah. And University of Texas is a club team. So it's a little bit different than. It's a lot of challenges. Than Bijon's University of Texas division one. Yes. University of. Could not be more different. Correct. Yeah. So now.
01:00:07
Speaker
I imagine the same energy goes into getting buy-in from these guys. They're like, what are the little nuances you take for, not just because they're lax dudes, bros, but now they're a team yeah and it's almost volunteer, yeah the effort that they are participating for. So correct speak to us about the different dynamic there. You you alluded to it, the lax bros are is one of the easiest I mean, I stepped foot on that field. I was like, I should have played record. I fit right in here. Yeah. So, ah you know, and the fact that I trained coach that the UT men's lacrosse head coach, Kyle Hartzell, the last two years of his professional playing career.
01:00:49
Speaker
um There's a level of buy-in, they know who I am, they know I was Kyle's trainer, they know I've worked with the pro guys. So there's, ah you know, it's funny, I mean, I'm 34, you know, having the those all those young college guys, because I can cut up with them and we can talk trash and talk about dumb stuff and they'll tell me about what they did that past weekend, you know? do that Right, yeah, right. um ah But there it's yes, sir.
01:01:16
Speaker
No, sir. And they're there while. And you're right, it is. It's voluntary. Like no one has to do those workouts, but they all choose to. And that's a testament to Kyle building a culture, because when he showed up there, that was not it's club ball, man. We're we're it's we're here to drink and play some lacrosse. Now it's shifted. You're playing learn lacrosse. You're going to be in shape or you're not going to play. You know what I mean? And just there's been a paradigm shift. And so that's that's a testament to Kyle. Part of that paradigm shift is that there was no training.
01:01:47
Speaker
previously. but there's There's just a little dinky weight room that no one really wanted to train in and it was only the guys who already liked to train, you know, the meatheads, the the workout warriors anyway that were in there willing to do that. That has shifted and he brought me on year one and it started off with just trying to help these guys improve speed and just like, a lot of these guys, it's like they had never even done playing metrics before. So it's like, you know, so with pretty remedial stuff. Speaking to that, with football, these guys, I mean, high school football, even middle school, Texas middle school, we started weightlifting. Yup. Lacrosse, it's not a weightlifting culture. No. So they're just playing the sport and that's enough training, but we know that it's not enough. It's not, yeah. Actually, you know what I've noticed? First of all,
01:02:35
Speaker
I had no real lacrosse experience until I started working with that team. I'm so grateful. I have such a profound respect for the sport of lacrosse. It is no joke, dude. That sport is physical. It is fast. You have to have an engine. You're using leverage in your body. You're creating space, filling space. I mean, there are so many elements of so many awesome sports, but it's all in one. And the precision and accuracy and timing that it takes, it's it's an awesome game.
01:03:01
Speaker
um But something I've noticed, too, where it's like this isn't talked about, which I could go on a whole rant on, but I won't. But like. People usually associate jumpers need, you know, knee tendonitis to just the jumping sports, but in lacrosse and football, everywhere. It's just everywhere. But those lax guys and those football guys, the culture around it is like, you kind of got to be tough and you just deal with it. But like, ah particularly the lacrosse guys, like a lot of their problems do get solved just by putting on some muscle and getting stronger. Oh, yeah. That's that's kind of that was a big low hanging fruit. I was like, and like, you know,
01:03:36
Speaker
You hate to just judge a book by its cover, but just walking out of that field and I'm looking around at these guys, I'm like, these motherfuckers just have never worked out consistently. And you got to teach them pain versus strain. 100%. Strain is hard work. Yes, it hurts. However, or you're sore. that That's a receipt. You worked hard, thank you. ah You're not injured. Yes. um Now, you know, at some of those bigger schools, deep you know, ah lacrosse programs, you know, like, I'm sure Maryland has a comprehensive strength and conditioning program, right? but Shout out to Ben Hoffman. I was there this ah past week. Hell yeah, awesome. So, ah well-old machine. But at the club level, and even though they're playing, you know,
01:04:20
Speaker
every school under the sun, whether they've got a ah you know ah a program backing them or not, the expectation is the same. Yeah, that that's on Hartzell. He's done it. The expectation is the same. And so you know um I've found, too, like there's ah there's been a couple of leaders each year on on these teams that have stepped up to the plate and kind of, first of all, it's helped that those leaders are the ones taking the programming that I have for the guys seriously and getting huge results. um Jack, team captain this year, ah he started training with me before he even stepped foot on campus. His older brother, Max, um was a team captain prior to that. He was training with me. And Jack like sent me a video the other day of him squatting like 435, asked to grasp, no problem. And let me tell you, that's not where he started, right? But like when you have team captains and guys on the team who are getting results, getting faster, getting stronger, and playing better on the field, it rubs off on the other guys. And then having those guys in the culture that Kyle has created to be able to then hold other teammates responsible and accountable for training outside of the days that I'm just with them, right? um Yeah, it's huge. But it man, it's been so fun.
01:05:36
Speaker
yeah It's a lot of fun. Yeah. Yeah. I've popped over to a couple of games. It's just, it is fun to watch. Yes. You mentioned Nese and I want to spend some time with David Gray to give him some quick shout out. Yeah. Shout out David Gray rehab. I feel some branding has made this man forgotten a little bit.
01:05:52
Speaker
We'll stay in the positive lane here. But yeah, man, so I've done a lot of his work, and then I know from Dietz's programming experience, it works a lot of the principles that he introduces into. A lot of Bosch influence. Oh my god, dude. It's Bosch. That's where it all comes from. Huge Franz Bosch fan. That is... Did you read that whole book? Yeah, running right here. You read the whole thing. Oh yeah, dude. I couldn't finish it.
01:06:20
Speaker
um So I have a ah working definition, I'm squeezing out here. you know Have you heard the term, don't go full Bosch? Now I have. well I went full Bosch, look at all these notes.
01:06:33
Speaker
like Wow and highlight it so his his you read the whole book. I'm an I'm an loser so The impressed honestly, I mean David was the one who told me to buy that book read the whole thing I couldn i just couldn't make it through the whole thing. It's so dense look at all look at all the places. You've had to highlight There's so much good shit, and it's like God Like come back, so this is like run one, and then there's a different color for run two. Yeah, wow. So the his working definition of specificity, so ah how I would define it is set up an execution. So through through my understanding. This is a different book. I was strength and coordination. Oh, okay. Have you read that? and No. ah i See this, i you have? You son of a bitch.
01:07:21
Speaker
It's smaller and it's green. Yes, yes. It's right over here. Uh-huh. Are you kidding me? It's actually the machine. I'm going to get it up again. but so this You love this. This, yes. The function of the hamstring, how he communicates, is to buy a particular muscle, passing two joints. I'm learning out. um I'm losing my clips here. But um but then the the working definition of specificity in that one, it it changed my whole perspective for teaching.
01:07:50
Speaker
a um These damn box step ups, you gotta love it. Yeah, so I have a freaking reading on a plane. I got a Southwest Airlines as a... ah That's the book. Yeah.
01:08:02
Speaker
So shout out, David Gray and shout out ah strength training and coordination. Franz Bosch. Man, incredible book. I couldn't finish though, I will admit. it's it was it's so It is so dense. But this is years. Yeah, yeah man, it is. like i would I would read a paragraph and I'd have to stop and be like, all right, let me go back through and reread that to make sure I actually understood it.
01:08:28
Speaker
Yeah, and and so this this is how I i function the warm-ups for my teams, and then they change every single day. Nice. So then it leads up, but we start start on the ground like that, and then articulation of the spine, so we're moving the spine. so it's ah And then we're on to the ankle, I have one thing to the ankle, and then these more complex movements. but Dude, yeah, I'm glad you brought him up. I didn't i didn't know Gray's connection to Bosch, but sorry, back to the knee. yeah what are What are some simple tools that you helped rebuild your own knee? Totally, dude. That then when warning sign, if you see that in athlete, hey, here's one, two, three things. So much like, um and I can't believe I glossed over this,
01:09:14
Speaker
Injuries, getting injured and having chronic reoccurring pain have been a part of my journey in my life. And thank God for them because they've made me a better coach. Going through it, miserable. You never want to be injured. You never want to be limited in terms of what you can do. You never want to have that thing that that just won't go away no matter what you think you're doing right. um But if it's not for those things, for example, if it's not for just Unbearable jumpers need to the point I can't even walk up and down stairs without like a lot of pain. um So I don't find David Gray, which I found David Gray listening to just fly sports performance podcast at the time. He had 2000 followers on Instagram. And I heard him talking about. The missing link and helping people recover. um
01:10:04
Speaker
and get to a place of healthy tendon function regarding jumper's knee. And how the traditional here's the traditional thing. You do some long-duration isometrics for the quad. You strengthen your calves. You might do some tib raises. You definitely need to foam roll and stretch.
01:10:21
Speaker
um And those, by the way, those were um like considered to be like, the that's that's like the best case scenario because before that, it was just rest. Don't do anything to make it worse, which we now know could not be a more worse thing to do when it comes to rehabbing a tendon, right? You have to load it. um And there's a lot of research that corroborates that now, fortunately. But at the time when I was going through this, it was, um and so what did I do?
01:10:57
Speaker
um I did all of those things. I tried to foam roll stretch. I tried not to bend my knees um Which of course was part of the problem in the first place and so all of my squats lunges everything is super hip dominant I'm barely getting into any knee flexion. I'm not training my quads I'm training everything else, but I'm not training my quads and I'm not doing a good job of getting full-on function through the knee joint, which is just through full range of motion. I'm not doing it. I'm avoiding it. It fucking hurts, you know? um And it feels so counterintuitive to actually lean into that in a way that's practical and manageable. um But between David Gray and honestly Jake Torra, jumpers knee protocol, absolutely fantastic. And Jake has really positioned himself as ah not just a tendon expert in strength conditioning, but on the planet.
01:11:52
Speaker
Jake has read every book. He has met with every specialist. He has conversated multiple times with every major tendon researcher, particularly in the sports performance field. um And between Jake and David, um the things that I did, so there's It's a chicken or the egg thing. Did you suddenly get a spike in volume or intensity that you weren't prepared for that pissed this tendon off? You continue to avoid loading that tendon and it exacerbates the problem. Or were you just not
01:12:32
Speaker
yeah That's just not your preferred movement strategy, right? So you think about quad dominant, knee dominant athletes, first hip dominant athletes. um It's just not the most efficient way that you've developed to move a weight, to make a cut, to do the jump. And so relative to the amount of force you're capable of of expressing, stopping, starting, jumping, changing directions, and what your quad and thereby tendon are capable of withstanding,
01:13:03
Speaker
have you created a discrepancy so large that now you don't have a knee functioning in a way that can actually deal with what you're capable of doing, right? Then it happens, then you lean more into being more hip dominant as the case may be. so All that to say, the shortcut list is direct quad isolation training for me. You'll see in a lot of my training, if you follow me on Instagram, I have guys doing um single leg leg extensions, um pendulum squats, sissy squats, things where, and it's not just about like pushing the knees over the toes. That just to do it is actually very stupid. The only thing that we're trying to accomplish is load the quads.
01:13:49
Speaker
There should be, you know, and like for some guys, their ankles are really mobile and they're able to do that really easily. And so their knees go past their toes and other guys, that's just not the case. Doesn't matter. Are we loading the quad? Yes or no. Right. And not only are we loading the quad, but on a week to week basis, are we able to load the quads in a way that is progressive where we're getting measurable results?
01:14:11
Speaker
not just in the weight room, but subjectively speaking in terms of how the tendons and knees are feeling. Right. So step one, you got to you have to prioritize isometrics and quad dominant squats, lunges, um quad training. We'll just say quad training. Right. So but that's only one piece of the puzzle. And this is where the French boss comes stuff comes into play. And David Gray, David understands that as a byproduct of having this issue, this pain, this insult, that it's going to change how you move. yeah It just is going to, it's going to, period. There's no way around it. And through specific isometrics, for example, like a foam roller bridge um or a shrimp squat, which is like a quasi isometric. It's an isometric of the soleus and knee, but it's a die it's sign it's dynamic at the hip.
01:15:11
Speaker
You're able to sort of retrain, and I don't even know if retrain is the right word, but you're able to recover movement capabilities that you perhaps have lost in navigating that injury. And the trouble is, is that if you don't recover the ability to fully bend the knee or for the muscles of the calf,
01:15:30
Speaker
quad, hamstring to co-contract around a knee joint at the right time, then you're going to be constantly pi put back into this cycle of those muscles not being able to show up at the knee joint at the right time. You piss off your knee tendon and now you're back into the vicious cycle. So there's a coordination piece.
01:15:50
Speaker
that can't be overlooked and can't be dismissed, which is something I would have dismissed a long time ago had it not worked for me and many of my athletes. Shout out France and David. So there's a coordination piece. But then there is very much so kind of like um a more meathead approach. But it's just as valid and just as helpful. And they should be running parallel to each other where it's like, we got to get this quad stronger, period. but And how you get it is the everything working together, right? Inter-muscular coordination. Yes. Intra-muscular coordination. 100%. And you have to have both. And it's funny because, like, as I look back, I'm like, why did I get developed as jumpers need in the first place? When I first started training for real, as opposed to working out, the notion and strength conditioning performances, you don't do leg extensions. You don't do any isolation movements, because that's bodybuilding. And it will make you slow and unathletic.
01:16:45
Speaker
Right. So I just didn't do them. And then also what was the communication, generally speaking, was chest up, butt back, weight in the heels. Right. Which for me it was great because I didn't have to load my quads because let's be honest, I've got long femurs and that's really hard to do and it's not fun and it burns and I can move more weight. you right legs are still high so it works My squats going up but my kneeat but but but ah but my quads and my knees are not getting stronger. um So it was kind of like this perfect storm where you know i'm I'm kind of training one ability of my lower body.
01:17:22
Speaker
to the to the its max potential probably at that point in time. But I've got like these lower legs and knees that are just under trained. There's no other way to put it. yeah um And so yeah, my knees took a beating. And then over a long period of time, you know, like if you look at videos of my squat then when I was like in the depths of my knee pain,
01:17:46
Speaker
It is just Mark Rippetoe would have, I mean, done a cartwheel watching me squat, right? Just hips back. Yes. Yeah, got that book over here. i met you now I mean, listen, I again, you know, that's how I learned is just kind of.
01:18:04
Speaker
exposing myself to it. And um and then today, like my squat strategy just looks really different. you know And I've found the value of, like you know particularly whether it's a unilateral, bilateral squat pattern, that being a more quad, knee flexion, vertical torso movement.
01:18:25
Speaker
And then if I want to train my hips, you know, and my posterior, then that's going to be, ah you know, a more hip dominant movement, yeah right? And having, you know, those really live at polar opposite in terms of form and function ah from a visual perspective for my athletes. Yeah.
Podcasting Journey & Resources
01:18:44
Speaker
so winding are have you got winding down you're also the co-host of the coach Emma yes coach Emma yep joke was Zach about the name um have you had David or Jake on the podcast I've had Jake on twice his podcast on tendons is fantastic um and he's one of those people who, like myself, when he gets onto a subject, he will not rest until he is exhausted. it And Jake more than me.
01:19:18
Speaker
um So um if you have an opportunity to listen to it or anybody listening, um the Coach Em Up podcast with Jake, if tendons interest you, and as a I'm assuming performance coach listening to this or trainer or whatever, um they should. That would be a wonderful resource to you. But yeah, the Coach Em Up podcast has been a dream come true. It's something I tried to start in 2020 with my iPhone, no mics.
01:19:43
Speaker
And the concept was, in fact, Jake was on my first guest. right It's just us sitting down doing a mini podcast and then they take me through a workout. Right? Sounds great. ah The problem is that I was really terrible at editing. I didn't know what I was doing. I had no mics. The sound quality was dog shit. I mean, you know, it was just I didn't know how to edit. I've refined those skills that the years have gone by. And as I've been able to put myself in better si situations financially through training, frankly, I've been able to buy better equipment and in book a podcast studio. So it looks a lot better now, I promise. um
01:20:19
Speaker
ah But yeah, the the podcast has been fantastic. My co-host Zach Zillner who you met is just he's the man And so working with him is just easy and he's fun and funny and easy easy strength. Yeah. Yes. Yeah nice nice ah plus yes yeah shout shoutlot dan john um So ah Yeah, the the podcast has been um Has been a dream really it's been it's been a ton of fun. I mean, now you get the opportunity to give, me you still be a mentee. Yeah. But oftentimes you're a mentor as well. Yeah, it's it's interesting how the dynamic has shifted and more and more people, because I talk about it on podcasts all the time about the role of mentorship and how important it was in my development, not important, imperative. Without it, I wouldn't be here.
01:21:10
Speaker
um And so now more and more people are asking me if I have mentorship opportunities and what those look like and, you know, in the future, hopefully I'll be able to build an infrastructure where I'm able to do that in a way where I either have cohorts or something. I don't know. I'm still kind of building that out, but I do want to find a way to give back and hopefully impact coaches.
01:21:33
Speaker
the way that, frankly, I was impacted by the people who were willing to take time on me, you know? um And the podcast is certainly a way to do that, where You know what I wanted to make? to I wanted to make the podcast that I wish I had. That was really my goal. That's what we all should do. Yes, yes. And so that's and I feel like I've accomplished that. And so I'm excited for 2025. I think it's got a big year. We've got some awesome people lined up. And um yeah, man, it's it's ah it's it's been a wonderful experience. The ride continues. Yeah. Yeah.
Conclusion & Call to Action
01:22:06
Speaker
So share where people can go to follow you. Sure. where They can follow the podcast yeah and listen and
01:22:12
Speaker
yeah what they can look forward to this year, and you shared a little bit, so hand it off. So, um first of all, thank you for having me on oh again. Oh, this is great. This was fantastic. I've had a blast. um You know, it's always good and chatting up with someone who is just as sick in the head about training as I am, so it's nice to know oh you're not alone. um You can find me at TimRileyTraining.com on Instagram, YouTube, and TikTok. The Coach Him Up podcast is at CoachI'mUp, not Coach Me Up, Coach Him Up.
01:22:41
Speaker
um And that's on Instagram and YouTube as well. um And yeah, you know, slide my DMs, say what's up. I'm always happy to connect. And if you're ever in Austin and you want to come a cool place to come train, I train at The Collective in Austin, Texas. Just shoot me a DM.
01:23:00
Speaker
That's it. Cool. All right. That does it for another episode. Thanks, dude. Of course. We'll talk soon. Bye. Thank you for joining me for another episode of the captains and coaches podcast. If you like what you heard today. Tune in every Wednesday for a new episode. Be sure to like, subscribe, rate, review, all that good stuff and give Coach Tim Riley a follow and tune in to the Coach Him Up podcast with him and my buddy Zach Zellner. They got some amazing guests on there. Thank you all for helping us raise the game.