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040 - DU Hockey: A Song of Ice & Iron w/ Matt Shaw
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From puck drops to power cleans, Matt Shaw shares the story of how ice meets iron in the pursuit of hockey excellence at the University of Denver.
Shaw has spent 13 years building the S&C foundation behind multiple NCAA National Championship hockey teams. In this episode, he takes us behind the scenes of championship hockey development - from the ice rinks where future NHL stars are made to the weight rooms where iron sharpens iron. We explore his journey from wanting to be "reactive" in athletic training to becoming proactive in sports performance, and how that shift in mindset has shaped elite hockey players who've gone on to compete in the NHL, AHL, and beyond.
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#DenverHockey #HockeyPerformance #NCAAHockey #StrengthAndConditioning #SportsPerformance #HockeyTraining #CollegeHockey #ChampionshipMindset #FrozenFour
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Transcript
Introduction to Speed and Performance in Hockey
00:00:00
Speaker
Speed of play and how fast we are on the ice is probably the biggest performance advantage that we can give our guys. Fitness, being at altitude and dealing with those types of circumstances, but also using it to our advantage long term across the season in terms of being an incredibly fit team at altitude is is another massive, I think, situation that we have to acknowledge
Podcast Introduction: Leadership in Athletics
00:00:23
Speaker
within training. Welcome to the Captains and Coaches podcast. We explore the art and science of leadership through the lens of athletics and beyond.
00:00:30
Speaker
I'm your host, Tex McColkin.
Meet Coach Matt Shaw: Building Champions
00:00:31
Speaker
Today, I travel to Denver to sit down with Coach Matt Shaw, the Senior Associate Athletic Director for Sports Performance at the University of Denver. Matt's in his 13th year at DU, where he's helped build multiple NCAA championship teams in men's hockey while developing one of the most respected collegiate strength and conditioning programs in the country. What makes him unique? Despite holding a senior administrative position, he still spends majority of his time on the floor directly coaching the athletes who brought home so many of those championship
Developing Complete Athletes and Leadership
00:01:04
Speaker
banners. Today we're diving into his championship-tested philosophy on using the training environment to develop complete athletes, building elite performance staffs, and balancing hands-on coaching with executive leadership.
00:01:18
Speaker
With that, let's hand it off to Coach Shaw, who helps us raise the game. Ready, ready, and rig. Shout out to our spence sponsor, Yeti. So the branding's in frame.
00:01:29
Speaker
Matt Shaw, man, we're cozy in your office.
Entry-Level Leadership in Sports Coaching
00:01:32
Speaker
University of Denver. I appreciate you opening up the doors and and having me in. Yeah, absolutely. Thanks for having me. Yeah. And what I want to explore with you, i call it entry level leadership.
00:01:43
Speaker
So the the time that a team captain, he's they they're initiated, they're called to action. It's the first opportunity they step into a a formal leadership role.
00:01:54
Speaker
In the same respect, a kid graduates, they want to get into coaching, they take on their graduate assistant or their internship or their first coaching role. And then For a coach like yourself, you graduate into all this responsibility.
00:02:09
Speaker
Those are almost entry-level moments for you in your career. So you've you've seen it all from athlete athlete all the way to coach and now into director role.
00:02:23
Speaker
So it's... We had so much to explore within the realm of leadership and whether it's it's movement we can use to explore it, whether it's hiring and firing. I'm sure you've seen it all that we can explore.
00:02:35
Speaker
And I'm excited to have you, man. Thank you. Yeah, perfect. Appreciate it. Cool.
Shaw's Coaching Journey: Internships and Volunteering
00:02:39
Speaker
Well, let's start with that entry level leadership for you. Your first coaching role, East Coast, and way back when it almost feels like, in a whole different culture and economy and all that.
00:02:51
Speaker
yeah So way back when, take us back to your entry level leadership in the coaching. Yeah, my entrance into coaching started, like most people with internships and volunteering my time through my undergraduate years.
00:03:04
Speaker
um So my first experience is actually with Mike Boyle um and it would have been 2006 with men's ice hockey. um Got to see the highest level of hockey athletes in the collegiate setting.
00:03:17
Speaker
um Guys that were going to be moving on to the NHL, really successful team, um legendary head hockey coach in Jack Parker, um but got to see this group you know, really set the foundation behind the success and the national championship that they had.
00:03:34
Speaker
I think it was two years after my internship. um And it was interesting because at that time, you know, you're, you almost feel like a fly on the wall. you Your perspective is just trying to be a sponge to try to pick up as much as you can. And it was a very novel experience. You know, I was 19 years old at the time, had no understanding of what college strength and conditioning really was.
00:03:57
Speaker
Um, and ah those eras still in its infancy in some ways, you know? And so, um, you know, I was an undergrad student who really was like taking the environment in at that time.
00:04:10
Speaker
And so the great thing was, is I was taking it in under the guidance of somebody who's an absolute legend in the field. Um, and who probably right off the bat taught me my biggest lesson in my career, which was critical thinking skills.
00:04:23
Speaker
Yeah. um looking at everything that's going on, thinking critically about how it applies. um Technically, does it make sense? You know, the position, the posture that people are in um the volumes that are used, you know, and just putting things into perspective and maybe the most simplistic way.
00:04:41
Speaker
um And then continued my
Diverse Experiences and Joining University of Denver
00:04:43
Speaker
education from there with multiple other internships with Buse Athletic Enhancement Center, which was youth to adult athletes. um with mixed sports psychology and then other attributes during that experience they had there.
00:04:57
Speaker
um i was with ah the rest of the BU varsity athletic department and their sports. um Went over to Harvard, was with Harvard for an eight-month stint through the summertime and through the fall.
00:05:08
Speaker
um And then really from there, got my grad assistantship at Boston University. And then between the two years was back in another internship spot in South Carolina with football in the SEC.
00:05:21
Speaker
um Summer training? Yeah, summer training and got that experience with, again, it was a staff that was absolutely stacked in terms of success. um You know, Craig Fitzgerald, who's a legend in the football world, um you know, with stints at South Carolina, Penn State, Texans, Giants. I mean, like he's been all over the place.
00:05:40
Speaker
Um, in Georgetown university. Yeah, it's, you know, it's so it's really cool. And then, you know, you have Dan Austin, the seven time champion, us champion. um you know, so it's, it's pretty cool to kind of see the group that was there in the impact. Um, but I had amazing mentors along the way that really, um, did a profound job with my education and guiding me.
00:06:04
Speaker
Mm-hmm. And then what was the the spark to come out to Denver? Did you apply at a long shot or did they seek you out? Yeah, it was weird. do you know ah You know, I think along the way, um when I had moved into my first full-time role at Boston University, um I ended up getting a position there. They were expanding their staff, wanted to keep me on the staff. um And so I ended up working for them full-time for about a 10-month period.
00:06:30
Speaker
And then through a series of other connections earlier in my career and putting, you know, I'd go on vacation and meet with a strength coach and create that connection with somebody, um you know, really, that's what led to a phone call from Denver, gauging my interest and actually applying for the position out here.
00:06:48
Speaker
um and so it was a really cool kind of full circle moment. um And, you know, really got to learn more about DU, success of the department. the trajectory that probably could be the department.
00:07:00
Speaker
um And so immediately you loved everything about it, took the job, got back into hockey um out here, both soccer teams, both golf teams diving. At the time, we only had three full-time staff. So was, everyone was holding down six teams.
00:07:16
Speaker
Man. So, yeah. And the the facility as we know it, did you have this space? So this space had just been built out within about a year to two years prior to my arrival. OK. So I walked through the doors of basically a brand new facility, um came in as an assistant strength coach.
00:07:34
Speaker
Um, you know, a lot of the resources were raw cause it had just been built out, but it had an unbelievable foundation and that is a 10,000 square foot facility, 12 platforms, um, mixed machines, cables, dumbbells, kettlebells, the foundation of what you would need to be successful. But the biggest thing was 70 yards of turf straight down the middle. Um, a great opportunity to make an impact and develop organizational.
00:07:57
Speaker
um changes across the years and just felt like it was a really great opportunity. Yeah. i Love, love the space. yeah Like there's room to operate. Yeah. And then the, the racks are an interesting position. We see yeahp traditional high school or,
00:08:13
Speaker
ah certainly a football-based weight room where it's just lined up. Here, Everything's off to the sides. Off to the side and valuing yeah speed. Yep. And the the open space is literally straight down the middle of the facility.
00:08:26
Speaker
All the equipment is pushed off to the outside perimeter. um And it's balanced from the center point out. So you're going to have two teams that are in on both sides of the weight room and really functioning independent of all the resources. And so there's never- conflicts with resources and what needs to get done.
00:08:43
Speaker
um it was set up to be essentially a factory behind getting 18 teams in and out of this facility every single day, um, with, uh, with the sports that we have, um, and maximizing time and efficiency.
00:08:56
Speaker
I get excited just thinking about one training here and two, just leading groups yeah through this experience. And speaking, speaking to your first year here, stepping into it.
00:09:07
Speaker
Now, a lot of coaches, i don't know if it's imposter syndrome or what they, they try to just bull their way through into coaching a new team and like throw down authority or whatever it may be. I'm sure you've seen it all.
00:09:20
Speaker
How did you approach
Challenges and Innovations in Hockey Coaching
00:09:21
Speaker
that first year? Did you come in like you knew it all or going to learn this environment. This is a new city. It's a new town. It's a new experience. Yeah, no, I was, I was definitely, I came into it. I think understanding that I had unique perspectives and experiences, um, but also the novelty of getting back in with a sport really that I hadn't been with for a few years.
00:09:43
Speaker
So, you know, i got the hockey job out here. I hadn't really worked hockey and at that time was probably three years. Um, but I had a really diverse background and hockey was significant in the early portion of my education with BU, um, Harvard, and then on the youth side.
00:09:59
Speaker
And so to get back in with hockey coming in with more basketball, um, That was, I think, the the largest learning curve was just, you know, I worked with our coaching staff, worked with our players to figure out the most important aspects of what needed to, I think, be done in terms of training, in terms of durability of our athletes.
00:10:21
Speaker
I took accountability on myself to do as much research um as I possibly could to set the foundation of success long-term. um But a lot of it was, you know, i was observing every day at practice and being at practice consistently.
00:10:37
Speaker
i was in coaching meetings, hearing what the coach was, you know, preaching to his team. um I was investing into, i think, different avenues behind learning, whether it was we fly out and you know, compete against Minnesota while I'm talking with Cal.
00:10:53
Speaker
So it's all of those things that set the precedent and the foundation for what's now been developed across, you know, 13 year period here. Um, and the continuation of learning and never being, i think, happy, um, with where things are and, and always looking critically at areas that we can get better.
00:11:13
Speaker
And where, when, when did you feel you really hit your stride again with hockey? Yeah, you know, when you're in a program, so I went through a transition and that the coach that i initially worked for here was fired at the end of my first year.
00:11:28
Speaker
And then we brought in Jim Montgomery and Monty um historical. highly successful coach across every level um between juniors college here. When we won national championship in 2017, moved to the NHL head coach, the Dallas stars moved around head coach of the Bruins. And now he's currently the head hockey coach with the St. Louis blues.
00:11:51
Speaker
And through his support. and I think the, the support that he gave in terms of truly developing the players um I felt like I could continue to make a huge impact and look at different avenues. And I was trying to be as progressive as possible behind understanding, i think the value of training hockey athletes differently. um So I think it was through his support, um through our players supporting the process and understanding that they were invested into it.
00:12:21
Speaker
um We went from maybe a handful of guys being here in the off season to the end of my first year, it went up to probably closer to like 60, 70%. And then the numbers just kept going up.
00:12:34
Speaker
Guys were flying in and out of town, but they were investing time into their offseason and their development changed.
Influence of Professional Players on Young Athletes
00:12:41
Speaker
And when they started to see results behind what they were trying to achieve and guys were moving on to the NHL and the AHL after their time here, um it created a snowball effect.
00:12:52
Speaker
You know, I had NHL players that were here local, um some of the alumni guys like Paul Stasny, Tyler Bozak, and some of the younger guys that had set really the foundation behind it. But that started to snowball.
00:13:05
Speaker
So the the professional players that also wanted to be here in the offseason and invest their time into into training and into what we were doing um made a trickle-down effect to the younger guys. So yeah it's just it just kept working off of one another, and and now we've got an unbelievable setup.
00:13:22
Speaker
Yeah. I mean, that as a college athlete, if I get the opportunity to train with some pros, yeah I'm sticking her around. Yeah. did And speak to us about the the state of hockey strength and conditioning.
Evolution and Education in Strength Coaching
00:13:35
Speaker
Much like lacrosse, I'm a lacrosse guy, it's it's stepping it up a notch. Athletes are trying trying to really invest in their bodies to maintain the rigorous college schedule into the the the pros.
00:13:47
Speaker
So before, as I imagine you entered in, S&C was not – part of the culture and you're a ah big pioneer, pun intended, to then change that association between hockey and taking care of your body.
00:14:02
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah, when I first got here, was interesting because they had gone through, I think it was three to four strength coaches on very short stints. So it was almost like I came in and created stability finally.
00:14:15
Speaker
um After there's multiple military transitions in and out, people are moving on to it's tactical. There was a short term hire and immediately they moved out. So when I came in, it was like, look, just get to back to the foundation of things, which was education, consistency, stability in terms of leadership.
00:14:33
Speaker
um and then that's when it really started to snowball so it was cool to see that evolution um and then it's like then we started to really fine-tune things you know we started with foundation of things like just work hard be consistent behind it get strong be durable around your hips to then it's like as things and the expectations on the athletes changed that the leadership internally got tighter in terms of like pushing athletes to truly get to to where they could be um Over time, um i thought like the program just kept snowballing and evolving.
00:15:09
Speaker
um And then my ability to fine tune our program and to do things differently for hockey athletes continued to get evolved during that period.
00:15:20
Speaker
Time out. Two things are inevitable for
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Speaker
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Speaker
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Speaker
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00:16:16
Speaker
Visit the link in the show notes to sign up today. Who's looking out for the leaders? We are. And now, back to the show. Ready, ready, and ready. And then the the athlete that you're getting in, from my limited understanding of the sport, 18 years old, nobody's going from, no nobody, general statement, but a lot of guys are not going from high school to college for hockey.
00:16:38
Speaker
There's a gap Yep. Year or two years for them to try to attempt. Yeah. So yeah, you can go junior hockey, you can go U.S. National Developmental Program. So you're getting a range. I mean, like we have guys that come into the program between the ages of 20 and 21 at the older end of the spectrum. But we're probably on the younger end of the spectrum in terms of college hockey. But it's still rare that we get a true 17, 18 year old coming into as a freshman. i'd say the majority of the time they're between really 19 20.
00:17:07
Speaker
um So, you know, they've had different life experiences. They've, if junior hockey, they've lived the Billett family, family has taken them in and houses them while they play junior hockey. um They've had to make more life decisions away from their direct parents.
00:17:21
Speaker
um So there's maybe a step ahead of the average freshman athlete coming into the college system, but there's still 18 to 20 year olds, you know? And so there's, there's a foundational education experience that I think anyone goes through in terms of college.
00:17:36
Speaker
Um, but I think that's what makes college great is that you get to live away from, you know, really adult supervision 24 seven for the first time in your life, you're making decisions nutritionally, educationally, lifestyle wise.
00:17:49
Speaker
And we're going to also put you in a context of your studying, And you're pursuing and you high academics mixed with very high athletic requirements. Yeah. um So it's a ah perfect storm of education, experience, and some type of net result.
00:18:07
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. a Responsibility. Yeah. I've been fortunate to coach and teach all all over the world. And I went to a hockey game in Belfast. Yep. And know if i look at the roster, it's all Americans.
00:18:20
Speaker
And then went to Oktoberfest in Germany and then just touring around, saw a rowdy table. I'm going to go hang out with those guys. And they just so happened to be a bunch of ah American hockey players somewhere in Europe that then they just took the, like a van ride down because they didn't have to go to practice the next day. So just ah an interesting run in.
00:18:42
Speaker
And man, a, It's a fun sport. It's my favorite sport to go to live. Yeah. I can't watch it on TV, unfortunately. um But then, like, it's fun. It's fast.
00:18:54
Speaker
So within the the realm of hockey, the how connected to you for the the gameplay? So listening to coaches, understanding gameplay or schemes, scenarios, and then taking that into the weight room to develop.
00:19:11
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah, I mean, I think when you have the time within your career to really, truly like integrate yourself into a team, like, you know, when i first started here, it was limited, right? I had to create those opportunities in that schedule to be able to go attend, you know, meeting with our head coach doing video prior to practice.
00:19:31
Speaker
and balance it with all the other responsibilities across six programs that was overseeing at the time. um But I made it happen. And then as things changed over year, over year, and I had more time to truly and fully integrate in to the teams that I was overseeing, you know, you pick up on things, you know, it's like one speed of play and how fast we are on the ice is probably the biggest performance advantage that we can give our guys. Um, fitness being at altitude and dealing with those types of circumstances, but also using it to our advantage long-term across the season, um, in terms of being an incredibly fit team, um at altitude is, is another massive, I think, situation that we have to acknowledge within training.
00:20:17
Speaker
Um, and as well as onboarding our athletes to altitude during their first off seasons and getting them used to that type of requirement, um, You know, so I think that you pick up on exactly we said, like style of play, speed of play, ah mechanical differences between athletes at certain heights.
00:20:35
Speaker
um you You look at like how athletes are going in and out of corners and battling. um versus like the the open-ended nature of being an offensive player and the creativity and movement and three-dimensional aspects of the sport.
00:20:50
Speaker
um So you really start to evolve yourself, your own philosophy, your you're really your critical thinking skills in those moments about how to train these guys and best prepare them.
00:21:02
Speaker
And that was a massive, I think, evolution across my first few years in Denver. That's great. And within the critical thinking, do any of your coaches assist you with hockey?
00:21:13
Speaker
Yeah. So right now, the way that we're organized, we have six full time, three part time coaches, and then we have interns. So almost all of our sports get covered by multiple coaches. So it's usually myself as the main, you know, logistical oversight tactician on the floor. But then usually we'll have a part time coach as well as an intern or two um that are getting to involved. And there's, ah there's ah I think, a variety of responsibilities.
00:21:42
Speaker
and approaches And so it's getting them to each understand where they can find success on the floor and how they coach, um where they're at developmentally and making an impact with them long term.
00:21:53
Speaker
And leading to this question of how do you start to integrate and teach critical thinking? Yeah. Yeah, I think you you, one, you have to understand the base foundation of where someone's coming into you um and where they're at developmentally within the process of becoming a strength coach, where they're interested in the profession.
00:22:14
Speaker
So sometimes it needs to be observational, that they shouldn't be worried about anything other than the fact of like, just just look at body shape, look at postures, positions that we're training, um feel it yourself. You should go out on the floor and experience what it is to do a a movement under load or do things under a certain speed.
00:22:34
Speaker
um But then as people gain those foundational experiences that then allow them to, I think, just foundationally understand what is going on, then it's about can you take a step back and truly, i think, communicate in under 10 to 15 seconds the largest bullet points behind how an athlete can be successful in one exercise in each block of training.
00:22:58
Speaker
You know, it's like, don't don't worry about knowing every single movement that's going on, because at times we might superset three to four exercises or do compound sets. So it's like, just focus on one and master that one movement and your communication with athletes as they're moving in and out of that exercise across a block of training.
00:23:19
Speaker
And then can you just get through two or three exercises of an entire training session? But it narrows their focus to kind of just be a master communicator in a simple movement that they feel comfortable with and then they can expand on.
00:23:31
Speaker
And then as someone gets older into the next step, it's just about understanding the logistical side. Can they communicate other types of things such as the velocity at which the athlete needs to be moving, the body shape, the body posture and position of the scapula, their head position while they're training?
00:23:49
Speaker
Those little details and as someone naturally is evolving as a coach um get more narrowed in. um And especially when you get to the upper echelon of sport performance and understanding in biomechanics, it makes a massive difference. But there's, I think, scalability behind how people create success and communicate on the floor.
00:24:09
Speaker
And so as an educator with our staff and our athletes, like I have to be able to meet them where they're at in that moment. And understand that our coaches also to be put in positions to create success.
00:24:21
Speaker
Yeah, i like that. And especially the the movement first. And as a coach progress, it it starts with the movement. I mean, we were all there obsessed with the program as well.
00:24:34
Speaker
So programming became the obsession and then you start to gradually learn that, okay, I'm just going to communicate to get this athlete moving well. And then that, that becomes an essence. So you have a, an architect of the program, but at the same time as my responsibility to then get that athlete to move according to the intention of said, pun intended program.
00:24:54
Speaker
Um, so net now within that entry level leadership, our interns are taking on those responsibilities. When do they start to, to To lead groups or lead sessions or lead something, cool down, warm up.
00:25:10
Speaker
yeah I think it's like you you break everything up. Like everything is a microcosm of like a full team left, right? So if they can communicate with another intern and guide another intern first, that's probably the safest and easiest access point, right?
00:25:25
Speaker
Can you do a warmup where it's all body weight and calisthenically driven? Um, and can you just communicate and work on verbal communication skills, your kinesthetic ability of demonstrating and teaching somebody else to find the same position or movement pattern that they're doing, but then it's, can you make it a step farther and then take it to a one-on-one situation with an athlete or somebody that doesn't have the same skillset or knowledge base that you're currently at?
00:25:53
Speaker
and then communicate the same things while they might not understand what's going on. um Then it's small group, then it's larger groups. So the complexity of the environment, the number of athletes, um the complexity of the different movement skills, like all of those things, it's just linear periodization applied in an educational front.
00:26:15
Speaker
Yeah, but I like, and we were talking about kids earlier, a term I like to use is zone of proximal development. i don't know if you've heard of this. So we're just teaching just outside of their reach of understanding. Huge in in child education.
00:26:28
Speaker
We can take that same mindset and approach with an intern. yeah or We're not trying to too fast. Yeah. And we talk about like bandwidth feedback, right? So it's, you know, there's there's really this perfect band where if people are inside of that band, they're exploring it, but they're technically sound and they're kind of figuring out how to repeatedly do the same movement pattern over and over again, but they're still safe.
00:26:51
Speaker
might not be optimal, but they're safe. and they're, they're exploring it to create consistency. If you're lower than that, then there's maybe a risk of danger. Those are the times when everyone on the floor should know, Hey, like you should always be communicating issues related to exercise technique or posture, where if someone's in a bad position that it could lead to a vulnerable state or risk of injury.
00:27:13
Speaker
And then the high end is if someone does a great rep, we should communicate support to that. So really the essence of the majority of the communication that we do is in the highest zone. And then in the lowest zone, we want them to, when they do something right, they need to know that they're doing right. And then to try to create a consistent habit out of that perfect rep.
00:27:32
Speaker
And then when they're in that low zone, it's like, we need to create immediate touch points to clean up technique, to improve safety and execution, to get them to the point where they're probably in that moderate zone and they're figuring it out, but it's like, they're still loading appropriately.
00:27:45
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. And I just feel interns coaching that but them up in that zone. If it's a good movement, they say good job. If it's a bad movement, yeah sometimes they say good job and that's not what we want.
00:27:57
Speaker
So then they see it, but they don't know what to say. So they just go to their, their positive reinforcement. It's like, no, no, no, no. no yeah Terrorist rules in effect. See something, say something. The, I like that.
00:28:10
Speaker
And, uh, I like intern to intern there. getting leadership reps. yeah So now we're reflecting back to the team now, whether agnostic of year, freshman, senior, whatever it may be, how do you start to integrate leadership into ah warmups, into training sessions so that it prepares them for when coach calls upon them to be leaders?
00:28:33
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. You know, in most of our context within the weight room, it's a little bit different because in most settings, right, it's about leading yourself to your own development, right? Taking control over everything in terms of like how things get executed, that's been written out on paper, and we communicate to them. So that means the tempo of a movement, are you holding posture and position and executing that consistently?
00:28:56
Speaker
And then it's are you moving at the right velocity or like full maximal intent behind things? Once athletes can truly demonstrate that level of consistency, then they should have the ability of also assisting other athletes. So you have to guide and lead yourself in those moments.
00:29:12
Speaker
and And especially as a younger athlete, and then as you become ah more mature athlete and find more consistency, then the approach can get more externally driven where you're leading other people around you that you're helping reinforce things, holding other guys accountable, maybe chirping guys and using humor to, do I think, create a level of consistency in how they're executing things.
00:29:35
Speaker
Um, but really, and then it's about how they apply those things in on the hockey side. And, you know, it it almost follows in parallels, right? Our, our hockey, you know, leadership group is really ah a little bit of a spectrum, right? We try to have maybe one or two younger guys that might be underclassmen, but on the road towards, you know, leadership position.
00:29:56
Speaker
um Then as they get into the assistant roles, you you know, really that's where like, they're still in the supportive cast of our captain or captains. But our captains are the ones that really govern the the variety of things. So even within houses that they live in, I mean, it's about partnering certain guys together, external and on their living conditions. Do y'all decide that? Does the team decide that? Are they...
00:30:22
Speaker
I think there's been conversations where it's like, you know, who you live with probably matters. And, you know, let's make sure that we're making mature decisions on on where we're partnering guys. Yeah. um So it might be encouraged a little bit, but it's, ah you know, I think that we have a very professional and mature group and that's evolved over the years.
00:30:40
Speaker
um It's probably been more identified in the recruiting process and narrowed in with athletes that will be successful within our environment. And with, a I think, the demand that and the responsibilities that come within this program as being, you know, now the best college hockey program in the United States, um, in terms of success for the last eight years, like we're going after national championships every year.
00:31:04
Speaker
And so it's hard to come into this program now because where guys are leaving the program at compared to freshmen, it's, it's the work that gets done between those, those years that is, is it growth, but,
00:31:18
Speaker
you know, it's such a large spectrum in terms of development, like we're educating them on lifestyle, nutrition, sleep, um you know, how to maximize their time organizationally, um how to balance that and still have fun and connect within as a team, um and individually, how to communicate.
00:31:37
Speaker
um So there's just there's so much development occurring that you know I think there's there's always, I think a the foundation gets set on how well you can lead yourself and hold yourself accountable. And then it extends externally to others.
00:31:50
Speaker
So ah I do want to spend some time with the the leadership group. Yep. What is this? What makes it unique for Denver hockey? Yeah, our leadership group is an internal group that usually consists of anyone that's wearing letters and may also have, you know, one or two other guys depending on the year. So there's yearly fluctuations on how large that group is and what this team needs in terms of a leadership group.
00:32:15
Speaker
But there's a level of transparency and our our coaching staff will directly communicate to that group. And then that group communicates downstream to the rest of the team. um But I think at times when they see adversity in the year um and they're going through competition after competition weekend and we need them to grow in certain areas, there's there's a level of transparent communication at all times.
00:32:39
Speaker
And that leadership group is the the really the intermediate step in terms of what are the players seeing? What is the coaches seeing? How can we best support between those two lines?
00:32:51
Speaker
um And having honest, transparent communication about needs, wants, desires in terms of team success and making change in certain areas um and how things just fit together logistically.
00:33:02
Speaker
I think the student athletes nowadays are different compared to 10, 15 ago. um You know, this is like the information age of social media and everything being out there and present at your fingertips.
00:33:16
Speaker
And student athletes need to feel that they're part of this decision making. They need to feel educated on why we're doing things. And so we operate on a very transparent front with with what our goals are in terms of like player load and practices, what we're trying to achieve technically and tactically.
00:33:35
Speaker
um like they should have a feel for our organizational consistency every single day. That way there's no surprises. There's no, you know, 180s in terms of approach. We're always level headed.
00:33:47
Speaker
There's not, we're not a highly emotional staff. We just give them the facts and the information that they need to create success. Yeah. Which I feel is a great way to, to show them to level set within emotions. Like we, we still want energy, but sometimes we want to not make emotional decisions, yeah especially on the ice when the the game's on the line. that You can play with emotion, but you can't be emotional.
00:34:12
Speaker
Yeah. That very well put um for hockey. I know there's a C on the chest and there's an A. Like help me understand what those letters mean. Yeah. I think C is somebody who internally has mastered, I think all the prerequisites of,
00:34:28
Speaker
of life in terms of like understanding the foundational skills of how to control variables academically, athletically, and has individually found success and development and now can orient their effort externally to themselves and upon their team. Um, assistance are right there, but maybe they You know, we really define it as somebody that maybe leads by example, but then might not be the fully the greatest communicator and externally yeah or the opposite. They're a great communicator, but then they need to kind of narrow the focus on the internal side just a little bit more.
00:35:06
Speaker
um But they're there to support our captain and to create a united front behind where we're trying to go as an organization. And then did these usually, mean, have they ever changed in season or is it once it's set, it's set?
00:35:19
Speaker
Yeah. Usually once it's set, it's set. I don't, I can't off the top my head, remember any type of change in season. Um, but you know, it's like we take on an approach of like, it's going to be voted upon and it's going to be discussed internally within the team.
00:35:34
Speaker
And it's the team's decision on who they want to lead them. Um, and then it's, it's up to our, our coaches and our support staff to help aid in that individual support of the team. um So I think it's it's everyone working together.
00:35:48
Speaker
But in the end of the day, it's like how our captain communicates downstream, organizationally, logistically, goal orientation, things like that. um it's It's about putting them in a position to be successful and the and different approaches on different years.
00:36:03
Speaker
Well, we have some years where guys are unbelievably I think great with external communication and, you know, maybe pulling on the emotional strings of a team.
00:36:13
Speaker
And then we have other captains that have been quieter, a little bit more introverted, but have demonstrated ah mastery in terms of like leading by example and maybe less frequently using communication, but making it more impactful when they do.
00:36:28
Speaker
And we've found success in every, every setting. Within the team, are there more than one captain or is it always one? Usually it's one. Sometimes I think we've had years in the past where we might have co-captains or things like that.
00:36:41
Speaker
um But I'd say the leadership group is generally right around four. Okay. And then you all arrang aim to include younger guys within the leadership group to help prepare them for their opportunity when they're upperclassmen.
00:36:54
Speaker
yeah So we've had years where we've like evolved and brought in sophomores early on, knowing that we might have a large amount of turnover um or that we know that you know this kid's going to be a future leader and like he needs to have a seat at the table in terms of communicating up front with where things are at.
00:37:11
Speaker
Um, I think sometimes you can easily identify maybe an outlying freshman who's already showing promise and can be brought in certain conversations. Um, but for the most part, I'd say the majority of the time it's upperclassmen, sometimes it's a sophomore plus upperclassmen.
00:37:27
Speaker
Um, but it's an evolution, you know, it's like, we don't expect freshmen or necessarily even sophomores to always lead, um, externally an entire team, but. their ability to help our captains and our assistant captains and to be feeling part of it. It's, it's everyone's on the same bus going in the same direction together.
00:37:47
Speaker
And which we got to keep in mind, these are young guys. So sometimes behaviors need shaping. yeah So what kind of tools do you ah implement as a strength and conditioning professional or attending practice to help sport coaches apply the right tools to then shape the discipline of a team?
00:38:06
Speaker
Yeah, I think like, you know, the things that we do on the strength and conditioning side, like outside of the weight room, it's about transparency and conversation. Like, you know, for one, and like we're we're lucky here that we have objective information coming in on the sports science side from force plate testing, from catapult, um from bar velocity and gym aware and and force frame and and resources that allow us to keep development objective. So we can have conversations about where someone's development's going.
00:38:32
Speaker
But then we can also ask questions regarding, you know, Hey, how are you sleeping? How is your, you know, the stress level going on academically. And it's about engaging athletes, I think truly in asking the right questions that are open ended, that prompt them to have a level of discussion, um, to open up about maybe hardships, difficulties, but also to have fun with them. I mean, like these are athletes that we're constantly around, maybe more so than our sport coaches and and other staff members across a year.
00:39:01
Speaker
So our relationship with them needs to be in a place that allows them to feel comfortable to communicate when they have issues, concerns, um or how we can best support them. So I think, you know, it's a series of ah different perspectives, like the objective information and data is one perspective, just working with the individual on where they're at, their maturity level, their execution consistency.
00:39:24
Speaker
might be another, um, they're on ice, you know, performance or stress or interactions with coaches like that might be a difference. So there's a spectrum, I think, in terms of how we can support our athletes in terms of lifestyle and education, but we try to think holistically behind things.
00:39:39
Speaker
And for, for goal setting, right. Coaches recruiting the guys that are our championship level, how do you then lead to helping them understand objectives that eventually lead to that goal?
00:39:52
Speaker
Yeah. so the first objective is anyone coming to the program just needs to learn how we operate. Right. So it starts with when they come in, it's usually the summer before their freshman year. um So we get them taking classes during the summer period early prior to when they're going to go into their first competitive season.
00:40:09
Speaker
It's a easier situation. They're taking less of a class load, but they get to use. really, I think, set the foundation behind their effort level, their execution, the details, how they're going to live their lives within the college environment, and and that foundational education behind nutrition and lifestyle. So we start with education first.
00:40:28
Speaker
Like that is the foundation of how we do things. Um, so then as somebody really goes through those, that first year, there's tons of learning lessons. Yeah. How to navigate academically, socially, athletically, playing time, like all these different things can occur, um across the, you know, someone's first year and that's expected. We're not expecting and a freshman to come in and blow every single area out of the water. so They're going to need to be supported on some level.
00:40:55
Speaker
Um, but I do think that there's an evolution between all of a sudden at the end of their freshman year, things start clicking, they become, I think, task and goal oriented together, you know, towards very objective goals. um As they've been in the program, they've executed testing consistently, they know where they are trying to get physically, they know where they're trying to, I think, it make improvement on the ice. And as they've seen the college competitive environment, and they know where they found success, and they also know their hardships.
00:41:25
Speaker
And so then at the end of that freshman year, they start to think critically about the player that they need to be to generate more success. And then, you know, really it's like every year they should be taking performance increases and whether that's an impact on lifestyle and nutrition and physical development, or whether it's an impact on their skill development on the ice or, you know, mastering, you know, competitiveness or whatever it is, it's,
00:41:50
Speaker
It's all those different factors culminating together to then create consistent changes in performance year after year. And you mentioned playing time. So curious on is there's only so much time and and only so many guys on the team.
00:42:07
Speaker
So now how do how to coaches, the sport coaches, or you on the backside of things help navigate and understand like playing time is not necessarily worth. So you keep them motivated despite of the time that they have on the ice.
00:42:22
Speaker
Yeah, I think, you know, everyone's in different circumstances. And like, you know, usually when guys come in, they know the type of player that they are. They're also joining a brand new team that may have very different look on depth and skill level.
00:42:35
Speaker
And so, you know, I think one, there has to be transparency from the coaching staff and they do a great job of communicating, Hey, this is, you know, where you're at in terms of playing time and where you know you're going to be for the next few weeks. We need to see positive change in these areas.
00:42:51
Speaker
Um, and i think it's also up to the player to guide some of that conversation as well and take ownership of the fact that really, if they want to see change or an increase, like what did they need to be doing on the ice to create different level of performance outcomes?
00:43:05
Speaker
and to find consistency in play and to compete for the outcome that they're looking for. um Whether it's, you know, they want more time on power play or more time on penalty kill or all these different things that maybe can shift somebody up or down in terms playing time, but it's dealing with adversity, right? Like,
00:43:25
Speaker
every athlete's going to go through It doesn't matter who you are. um There's no linear performance change across, you know, one year, two years, three years, four years, or into the next level as they go pro.
00:43:38
Speaker
It is about dealing with circumstances in adversity throughout that process, but then thinking about what are the areas that can make the biggest impact. um And for a team to value what I bring to the table,
00:43:51
Speaker
And sometimes it's not necessarily points. Sometimes it's, you know, your defensive play and your effort level and the energy that you bring. I mean, there's a great story that's had public and notoriety, but Logan O'Connor was ah who's currently an avalanche player won the Stanley cup.
00:44:10
Speaker
um But his freshman year at DU was barely playing. He was in and out of our lineup. The majority of his freshman year, mostly out. um By sophomore a year, he was in the majority of the games, um but still every now and again had hiccups that pulled him out of the lineup.
00:44:26
Speaker
And then all of a sudden, everything clicked. He became and he's one of the fastest skaters we've ever had in the program. um But he brought his speed to the forecheck and his aggressiveness defensively.
00:44:40
Speaker
um and just what he was doing on the ice and defined his role and literally by the end of his junior year signed a professional contract and then immediately found success at the hl level springboarded that to an nhl career and has been in the nhl ever since and that's a player who literally almost didn't even play his freshman year and so sometimes guys figure out quicker than others and there's a different growth and aptitude behind someone's ability to do that quickly.
00:45:07
Speaker
um But it's, you know, it's a humble dose of reality of that you're competing for things and you have to take accountability over the things that you can control. And you got to do it consistently day in and day out to be the player that you want to.
00:45:19
Speaker
Yeah, accountability is that that keyword and coaching for so many years, you have all those stories that start to build up and examples that you can then share ah that that teach accountability and success.
00:45:31
Speaker
And I'm curious to your experience, I find there's different culture killers, right? Just natural human instincts, envy, resentment, entitlement. That's where I was thinking with playing time, like, I deserve this.
00:45:45
Speaker
In your experience, ah what are some of these potential culture killers that you've seen that you one to now, with your experience, aim to get proactive with,
00:45:56
Speaker
because you've seen them derail good teams because yeah things left on set. Yeah. I just think that like, I mean, it's kind of almost where the program's gone, right? It's like transparency is the best policy and the more transparent that we can be with you about the process and about where we're at as a, as a team in terms of where we're at, in terms of outcomes and the and things that we're trying to make change to across a very long college season between October 1st and mid April.
00:46:25
Speaker
every year is a different journey and we've had some years where mana did not start good and but every single week we just kept going and then those years have culminated in national championships and then we've had years where you know it's like we've started really hot gone through some adversity didn't respond and it's like the level of accountability of taking control over a situation and actually i think understanding And taking the information that coaches are saying, putting it into change, finding consistency in executing that change, and then growing from that is very different than just hearing at one time, maybe not fully investing yourself into it in practices.
00:47:11
Speaker
And then it spirals and it leads to more inconsistency or people are saying like, we got it, we got it, we're good. sometimes you need to say, no we're not good, you know, and that we need to actually make change and it's not going in the right direction.
00:47:27
Speaker
And it's up to, I think that's when the captains need to like really take control over a team and communicate that there's problems and we need to resolve it. But it's about growth between day one and the end of the year in terms of competition season.
00:47:43
Speaker
And I said, there's so much growth opportunity throughout that. It's about like keeping your foot on the gas pedal, maybe not pressing the pedal down the entire way, but you need to, I think, be consistent day in and day out.
00:47:55
Speaker
but That's a great analogy. And i mean, pain, struggle, adversity, all these things in that length of season that you mentioned, it's inevitable. So a lot of the tools in the off season that you're working on through weight training, through conditioning,
00:48:11
Speaker
they're setting them up for success. So how, how do you aim to do your part to communicate these small doses of adversity for the big time in season? Yeah. I mean, everything that we do in the off season is set up for on ice performance and we get them to understand that, you know, it's biomechanically the postures, the positions that we're going to put them in.
00:48:31
Speaker
It's the velocity at which they're going to be moving in and the range of velocities that we're going to be training. That's going to shift their force production. It's making that they're durable around their hip girdle, the areas that are like the most, you know, highest likelihood of injury.
00:48:47
Speaker
um So I think our guys understand and they feel the impact of what we're doing day in and day out. And they understand the application. Like we teach them those things. um So we do invest in the education first and the foundations behind education.
00:49:01
Speaker
I think them understanding their process. And so if they understand the process, they invest into the process, then that's when it's like you really start to see results. And it's the same thing nutritionally. It's like the as the and NCA model has changed and it used to be you couldn't give a kid a bagel and peanut butter because it crossed the line of a meal.
00:49:20
Speaker
and nowadays it's like meals are there they have food access 24 7. it's like we've only seen better outcomes and so guys want to understand nutrition differently they want to invest into all these different areas um and if they don't then this isn't the right culture for them at least not here at du and i think what we've seen is that when they feel confident in their preparation And that preparation like linearly takes them from general to very specific across the entirety of the off season, including like things that are off the ice to then doing things and transitioning onto the ice and with skating and working towards ice based goals, whether it's skills, whether it's speed, whether it's conditioning and applying it in.
00:50:06
Speaker
And then they are starting to really focus in on like tactical and technical execution and preseason. that process makes them feel good about what they've done. And that leads to success.
00:50:18
Speaker
um It's not just jumping from A to Z and then hoping that what you did in between got you there. It's like very like logical progressions and just educating them along the way and making sure they're feeling their best.
00:50:30
Speaker
throughout that period and that the education is key and they're smart guys yeah so communicating that so then yeah i feel logic is strong if emotion starts to take over be like no no we did the work remember this yeah and then leaning into that um i like that so ah winding down now with within the the the realm of hockey and strengthening and conditioning.
00:50:55
Speaker
this is something that that I feel ah hockey and lacrosse, they're on the same pathway. As I mentioned earlier, athletes are getting more and more invested. So it's it's allowing dudes that are not as ah blessed skill-wise with now a physical realm to step up and then gain coordination to then develop the skill and then catch up.
00:51:16
Speaker
So within the the realm of strength and conditioning and what you're building here at DU, do you feel that this is going to help the sport start to replicate as as coaches that are working with you then get hired to work at other universities and expand this this hockey performance culture?
00:51:32
Speaker
Yeah, mean, my goal at all times is that if somebody wants to work within hockey, that this be a great and unbelievable experience as an educational platform to springboard their career. Like people that have come into our program as interns, as fellows have just continually gained success. I think the hard thing about Colorado is that we're, you know, in a state that doesn't offer that many programs academically.
00:51:54
Speaker
Um, but the experience we provide, I think is really unique and the experience itself between an intern can evolve into a fellow, which can evolve back into a full-time staff member here. And we've had examples on our staff of that.
00:52:08
Speaker
So, and we've tied people into the community. We go out of our way to support our interns or our fellows that are leaving to go get great opportunities, um, So I think like, you know, really what we've done internally is one, just taking care of our job responsibilities here to the best that we possibly can and challenge and push our coaches to maximize our student athletes. And in turn, that's created more, I think, interest in people being here to learn our methods and how things have really operated here.
00:52:38
Speaker
um That it's just like a trickle down effect. And it's, it's created a lot of success in terms of the coaching and coaches that have moved on from our site. And, and you know, I love people coming in with hockey experience and in getting this experience as a great tool to to leverage the next position.
00:52:54
Speaker
Have you faced off, pun intended again, with any of your former staff members here that are now head guys at other universities? Yeah, I mean, i've we've had a spectrum. We've had guys go from here into the pro ranks and the AHL.
00:53:07
Speaker
um I've had guys go from here into the college ranks. So one of my former... ah interns or fellows at the time moved down to CC, worked with hockey for a few years down there. So we've definitely had those moments.
00:53:20
Speaker
um And so I think it's like, you know, those those are fun. You know, i've yeah we've we've placed a fair amount of coaches within the field. um So that crossover is always there, but you always want to make sure your team's taking care of those. That is correct. This coaching tree that you're building, man. Well, dude, I'm grateful for your time. The beautiful rank. I got to to see all the banners up there. I made sure to grab it for B-roll to just drag across all those championship banners that are up there, man. So, yeah, wonderful thing in in in here. Beautiful weight room, beautiful campus, man, and i'm I'm grateful for your time. So thank you for joining me. i really appreciate it. Thank man.
00:53:57
Speaker
And see you.